S.Hrg.119-072

1[Senate Hearing 119-072]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                                                        S. Hrg. 119-07256             TRANSPORTATION, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVEL-7              OPMENT, AND RELATED AGENCIES APPRO-8              PRIATIONS FOR FISCAL YEAR 20269=======================================================================1011                                HEARINGS1213                                BEFORE A1415                          SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE1617                       COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS18                          UNITED STATES SENATE1920                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2122                             FIRST SESSION2324                                   ON2526                           H.R. 4552/S. 24652728  AN ACT MAKING APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE DEPARTMENTS OF TRANSPORTATION,29HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, AND RELATED AGENCIES FOR THE FISCAL YEAR30           ENDING SEPTEMBER 30, 2026, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES3132                               __________3334                      Department of Transportation35              Department of Housing and Urban Development3637                               __________3839         Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations4041[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]4243           Available via the World Wide Web: www.govinfo.gov44                               __________4546                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE4760-282 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 202648-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------4950                     SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine, Chair5152MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky            PATTY MURRAY, Washington,  Vice53LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska                   Chair54LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina       RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois55JERRY MORAN, Kansas                  JACK REED, Rhode Island56JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota            JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire57JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas               JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon58SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia  CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware59JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana              BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii60CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin61BILL HAGERTY, Tennessee              CHRISTOPHER MURPHY, Connecticut62KATIE BOYD BRITT, Alabama            CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland63MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma           MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico64DEB FISCHER, Nebraska                GARY C. PETERS, Michigan65MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota            KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York66                                     JON OSSOFF, Georgia6768                  Elizabeth McDonnell, Staff Director69                  Evan Schatz, Minority Staff Director70                                 ------7172  Subcommittee on Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, and73                            Related Agencies7475                CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi, Chairman76SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine (ex          KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, New York,77    officio)                             Ranking78JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas               PATTY MURRAY, Washington (ex79SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia      officio)80LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina       RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois81JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota            JACK REED, Rhode Island82JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana              CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware83JERRY MORAN, Kansas                  BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii84KATIE BOYD BRITT, Alabama            CHRISTOPHER MURPHY, Connecticut85                                     CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland8687                           Professional Staff8889                             Michael Clarke90                               Jake Lynch91                            Cameron O'Brien92                             Jason Woolwine9394                      Josephine Eckert (Minority)95                       Kelsey Daniels (Minority)96                        Rajat Mathur (Minority)97                         Jessica Sun (Minority)9899                         Administrative Support100101                               Teddy Coes102103                            C O N T E N T S104105                              ----------106107                                HEARINGS108                         Thursday, May 15, 2025109110                                                                   Page111112Department of Transportation.....................................     1113114                        Wednesday, June 11, 2025115116Department of Housing and Urban Development......................    53117                              ----------118119                              back matter120121List of Witnesses, Communications, and Prepared Statements.......    93122123  TRANSPORTATION, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, AND RELATED AGENCIES124                  APPROPRIATIONS FOR FISCAL YEAR 2026125126                              ----------127128                         THURSDAY, MAY 15, 2025129130                                       U.S. Senate,131           Subcommittee of the Committee on Appropriations,132                                                    Washington, DC.133    The Subcommittee met at 10:02 a.m. in Room 192, Dirksen134Senate Office Building, Hon. Cindy Hyde-Smith (chairwoman)135presiding.136    Present: Senators Hyde-Smith, Collins, Boozman, Hoeven,137Kennedy, Moran, Britt, Gillibrand, Murray, Durbin, Reed, Coons,138Schatz, and Van Hollen.139140                      DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION141142STATEMENT OF HON. SEAN DUFFY, SECRETARY143144             opening statement of senator cindy hyde-smith145146    Senator Hyde-Smith. Good morning. The Secretary of147Transportation, Mr. Sean Duffy, who will testify on the148President's fiscal budget of 2026 request for the department.149And I'm delighted to be joined by our new Ranking Member,150Senator Gillibrand.151    And starting off this morning, I want to recognize the152Lilley family. I just found out that you were here, and we're153so honored that you were here and grateful to have you with us154today. I look forward to crafting our fiscal year of 2026 bill,155with the same collaborative spirit that former Chairman Schatz156and I shared in recent years, and the programs and projects157that all of our bill support have a direct impact on the lives158of all Americans every day. We're thrilled to have our Chairman159here with us today, Susan Collins, of the overall Committee.160And we will get started.161    While the priorities in Mississippi may differ from those162in New York State, we can all agree on the underlying mission163of enduring a safe and reliable transportation system. Last164year, our Subcommittee produced an appropriation bill that had165strong bipartisan support and was passed nearly unanimously166coming out of committee.167    That was a lot of hard work to get there, but as a result,168our former majority leader chose not to bring any of the 12169appropriation bills to the floor last year, and we were forced170into a continuing resolution, which seriously undermines171Congress's ability to fulfill its most fundamental duties. I172know that Chairman Collins and Vice-Chair Murray are once again173committed to making sure that all of the fiscal year 2026174appropriation bills are marked up in committee and considered175in the full Senate.176    Secretary Duffy, thank you for being here today to testify177on the budget request from the Department of Transportation. I178have enjoyed our recent conversations and appreciate our mutual179admiration of rural America. While we recently received the180skinny budget, as we call it, we look forward to a more181detailed breakdown of a proposed budget funding. Our bill182simply cannot be written without it.183    I look forward to hearing more about Department of184Transportation (DOT) priorities. Our Subcommittee is very185interested in better understanding the magnitude of staffing186reductions throughout the Department in order to ensure that187the Transportation Department has the workforce necessary to188carry out its mission.189    We all know that just days into your tenure as Secretary,190you were faced with a tragedy that underscores the critical191role of USDOT plays in transportation safety. We continue to192mourn those who were lost during the horrifying incident over193the Potomac, and we recognize that the status quo is not194sustainable. We must take bold action to prevent future195aviation disasters.196    As I mentioned to you in our call together last week, I'm197truly thankful to have you at the helm of the Department during198this critical period for aviation safety and transportation199writ large. Your sincerity and determination in wanting to200solve the problem of modernizing our nation's air traffic201system is a welcome change.202    And I know you inherited a lot. You've got a tall drink of203water in front of you. Getting this proposal right is204critically important to the traveling public, so we look205forward to receiving more details of your recently announced206plan. I am very supportive of the additional funding requested207for the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to hire more air208traffic controllers to manage the increased traffic in our209national airspace systems, and to bring on more critical safety210staff to help address the ongoing FAA aircraft certification211reform and oversight efforts.212    While there's a lot to talk about the Department's budget213request, I was disappointed to see that the Administration214proposes drastic cuts to the Essential Air Service (EAS)215program. As we have discussed, the EAS program connects our216nation's rural communities to the broader transportation217network by facilitating safe air travel for customers,218traveling to and from smaller markets like in Greenville,219Mississippi, Tupelo, and Hattiesburg, Mississippi.220    I know you understand the importance of this program from221your time as a Congressman when you had multiple EAS-supported222airports in your district. Drastically cutting this program223will have a severe impact on rural communities and regions that224rely on having access to the broader transportation network.225Additionally, new businesses rarely locate in areas without226dependable commercial air service. So, supporting these rural227airports is vital for future economic development.228    I'm very pleased to see the significant investment this229Administration is proposing in rail safety, nearly doubling the230funding for the Consolidated Rail Infrastructure and Safety231Improvements Program. In contrast, the last Administration232proposed slashing funding for this program by more than 50233percent. I have also been encouraged by your strong statements234of support in our nation's ship building industry and for235improving the pipeline of qualified merchant mariners.236    Our bill encompasses the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy in237Kings Point, New York, which you recently visited, as well as238six state maritime academies. These institutions are absolutely239essential for facilitating commerce, and strengthening our240national security by educating training the next generation of241American Mariners.242    The Administration's support for the maritime industry is243further demonstrated by the funding proposed for the Port244Infrastructure Development Program, otherwise known as PIDP.245The request recommends $550 million in Port Infrastructure246Development Program (PIDP), the request is $500 million above247the current spending level. It's also worth noting that the248previous Administration sought just 80 million for PIDP in its249fiscal year 2025 budget request.250    In addition, the increased funding requested for the251Assistance to Small Shipyards grants totaling $105 million is252another strong signal of support for American ship building,253which is important to Senator Collins and myself for sure.254    As we approach the final year of the Infrastructure255Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA) funding, and our authorization256counterparts work toward a surface transportation257reauthorization bill, we need to make sure that our258appropriations bill strikes a balance to meet the needs of all259Americans, especially those in rural communities which face260unique transportation and economic development challenges.261    To conclude, I believe that our funding decision should be262guided by fiscal responsibility and with the taxpayers in mind.263Secretary Duffy, I look forward to hearing from you, and264working together for the American people to ensure that we have265the safest, most reliable transportation network in the entire266world.267    Now, I turn to Senator Gillibrand for her opening268statements.269270                statement of senator kirsten gillibrand271272    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Chair Hyde Smith. I'm273honored to be serving alongside you at the THUD Subcommittee. I274first want to acknowledge the family that is here. No one275understands the need to improve air traffic safety and aviation276safety than Tim and Sherri Lilley, we mourn with you at the277tragic loss of your son, Sam.278    I've met with many families who have lost loved ones to air279crashes, particularly the Colgan Air Flight that crashed in280Buffalo. But I can tell you from experience, the most effective281advocates for reform and change are parents such as you who282have lost such a dear loved one. So, your presence alone is283extremely meaningful, and we're very grateful that you're here.284Thank you.285    The Subcommittee has a very longstanding reputation as286being one of the most bipartisan subcommittees, so I'm very287excited to be part of it. It's also bipartisan because every288state has enormous transportation and housing needs, and the289only way to address them is for us to work together. The290transportation needs of New York may be different from291Mississippi, but we all want safe and efficient transportation,292and I know that we can work together for our local communities.293    In New York, every single mode of transportation matters.294Transit and rail service are the backbone of New York City, and295provides the most efficient way to get around. New York's296airports serve as a gateway to travelers from across the world,297and we've seen how critically important this is to our air298traffic control system. Over the last week, we saw what299happened at Newark that was frightening, terrifying, in fact300not to mention the challenges that we faced at all airports301across New York.302    The maritime needs in New York are significant with the303Merchant Marine Academy and the SUNY Maritime College. I look304forward to working with you on those two projects specifically,305to really show what America can do. Highways and bridges are a306lifeline for connecting the cities and suburbs in every New307York community. We really do need the Federal government to308fund all modes of transportation, and so picking and choosing309is unwise.310    Secretary Duffy, welcome to the Subcommittee and thank you311for your energy and enthusiasm in rebuilding America's312infrastructure. I'm particularly excited about your focus on313aviation modernization and safety. Your budget request for314fiscal year 2026 includes a lot of good news for315transportation, particularly for FAA's air traffic controller316hiring and training, highways and rail grant programs, and ship317building revitalization. The budget request also cuts $1.1318billion from DOT, but does not specify which programs have been319cut.320    So, I hope that you'll be more specific about these cuts321because we know both the good news and the bad news. Cuts to322Amtrak and public transportation will be very harmful to New323York and to the Eastern Seaboard. As I've said before, an all324of the above strategy is what's appropriate for New York State.325Aviation safety will also remain a top priority.326    I also look forward to hearing about your modernization327proposal for the air traffic control system. Everyone agrees328that modernization is urgently needed. We all experience flight329delays and cancellations, but nothing is more terrifying than330what happened at Newark. So, we really have to focus on that.331    The Administration's overall budget includes a lot of cuts332and savings. In fact, there's $163 billion in savings from non-333defense discretionary programs. So, we know the Administration334has money on the table. So far, we have not seen a budget335proposal that would put any of these savings towards air336traffic control modernization. So, we're hopeful that that will337be done.338    Aside from the budget, I'm worried that the Department has339buried itself in red tape by reviewing 3,200 competitive grants340that have been previously awarded eligible and met all other341criteria. I think you might need to hire two dozen lawyers to342get that done if you want to do that on a timely basis. There's343no doubt that the months-long effort to re-review grants is344slowing down transportation projects in every single state.345    The Department's also struggling because it's lost346thousands of employees through the Deferred Resignation347Program. It simply makes no sense to create more unnecessary,348duplicative work on grants when you have fewer people to re-349review them. Despite these challenges, I'm very confident that350you want to help rebuild American infrastructure with the351traditional bipartisan cooperation that this subcommittee will352afford.353    So, thank you, Mr. Secretary, for your testimony today. And354thank you, Madam Chairwoman.355    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you. We're going to begin with356the questions.357    Mr. Secretary, at last year's budget hearing, I asked your358predecessor about private-public partnerships with the FAA359through the Federal Contract Tower Program. Specifically, I360asked about how the Trent Lott International Airport in361Pascagoula can become the eighth Mississippi airport to join362this important program. I was told then that the Department363through the FAA was making significant progress with the364airport and bringing this tower into the Federal program.365    Yet, today, the Pascagoula Tower has still not been366admitted. I do not understand what is causing the delay, but it367is troubling that it has taken so long for this transfer to368occur. Mr. Secretary, what is the most recent update on this369project, and will you commit to working with me and my staff to370help the Trent Lott International Airport finally join the371Federal Contract Tower Program this year?372    Secretary Duffy. Madam Chair, I appreciate the question. I373don't have an update for you at this point right now, but I374will be happy to go to the FAA and get an update, and give it375to you as quickly as possible.376    Senator Hyde-Smith. Great. All right. I am going to pause377my questions. I think we have everyone that we need here, and378we will go with your opening statement.379380                  summary statement of hon. sean duffy381382    Secretary Duffy. Oh, thank you. Chair Hyde-Smith, Ranking383Member Gillibrand, Chair Collins, Members of the Subcommittee,384thank you for having me today. I appreciate it. It's good to385elevate from the House and come over here to see you all in the386Senate. It's great to be here.387    My aim over the course of this hearing is to provide you a388sense of how building big, beautiful infrastructure is at the389top of President Trump's priorities, and how we can all work390together to build the infrastructure that connects our people391and moves our products across this country. That is the aim.392    Our Department has already saved taxpayers more than $9.5393billion in the President's first 100-plus days in office. Those394savings include money pulled from projects tied to social395justice, to climate requirements. There's been some boondoggle396projects and inefficiencies at the Department that we've397focused on to garner these savings.398    Now, a lot of you have reached out to me and have concerns399about grants. I get a lot of calls from you and your staff.400Just to note, we've inherited an unprecedented backlog of 3,200401awarded projects without signed grant agreements. Many of these402projects date back to 2022. The last administration, I would403argue, were unorganized and they were unfocused as projects404around the country were stalled by inaction and by405inefficiencies.406    No one is more frustrated with the inefficiencies of the407process more so than I am. Currently, get this, there are 10 to40814 different systems at DOT to track the grants at DOT. There's409not one system. There's 10 to 14. So, I'm looking to streamline410that process so we have one process to track grants. I would411like to put a dashboard out so all of you and your constituents412can actually look in real time and see where grants are at and413how they're moving through the process.414    I think that kind of transparency is critical for this415body, but also for the American people and your constituents416who look to see where they're at in the grant-making process. I417want to give you some radical transparency if we can make this418system work. It's under development right now.419    The Department of Transportation, on the budget front, is420one of the few non-defense Federal agencies to receive an421increase in Federal funding under the President's budget for422fiscal year 2026. The reason is pretty simple; the President,423he likes to build. He's a builder. He spent his career424building, and he sees what we do at DOT as an agency, a425Department that builds things, and he cares about that.426    Our budget carefully focuses taxpayers' resources on items427critical to our most fundamental mission of safety and428investing in transportation infrastructure. We have pushed429forward with the approval of over 400 grants totaling $4.9430billion in the President's first 100-plus days. In total, the431President's budget request of $26.7 billion in new432discretionary funding for fiscal year 2026 is a $1.5 billion433increase from fiscal year 2025, or simply put, a 5.8 percent434increase.435    And I know my time is about to expire, but I would be happy436to take your questions on what's been happening at Newark, what437systematic problems existed at Newark that caused the outages438with air traffic control, and also our ideas on how we have to439build a brand-new air traffic control system. The system we440currently use, it truly is 25, 35, 40 years old in some places.441We should have paid way more attention to it as a country.442We've let it age, and now we're seeing the cracks of that age443play out in real time for us.444    I believe the system is safe. There are multiple445redundancies throughout the system that keep people safe. Even446the frustrations in Newark when we've slowed traffic down, the447key is not efficiency, the key is safety. And so, when we slow448traffic, it's about keeping people safe. When they take off, we449want them to land at their destination, and so we'll make sure450that we have a flight load that matches the system and the451number of controllers that we have on duty.452    But with that said, I agree with America's frustration. No453one likes delays. No one likes cancellations. Love airports,454but I don't want to spend four hours in an airport waiting to455see if my flight's going to take off. And I think that's the456feeling of so many Americans. And I think this is a moment in457time that we can all work together to make the critical458investments and execute on those investments safely but in a459really fast timeframe.460    We can't wait 5, 10, 15 years to do this. The build can't461take 10 or 15 years. We have to do this at an expedited speed.462And if we do that, I think this is a moment in time we're going463to be able to pay these investments forward, not just for464everyone here, but we're going to pay it forward for future465generations, and we can build an air traffic control system.466    I use the example of my iPhone. I think I'm over my time,467but if I could just say that, you can update your iPhone,468right? It's a device that if Apple develops new software, they469send me a notice and I can upgrade this. I just put AI on my470phone as an upgrade from Apple. I can't update my flip phone.471    Remember the Razr? Old school. You can't update that, but472you can update this. I want to build a system that's like the473iPhone that we can continue to build upon as new technology474becomes available and we can improve the efficiency of our475airspace and the safety of airspace. And I'd be happy to talk476more about that and today's hearing, but also as we look to477future conversations about what's necessary and what's needed478with that.479    I'm happy to take your questions. I'm sorry for going over,480that's a critical mistake on my part. I understand the481frustration of someone testifying going over. But happy to take482your questions and thank you for having me here today.483    [The statement follows:]484                Prepared Statement of Hon. Sean P. Duffy485    Chairman Hyde-Smith, Ranking Member Gillibrand, and Members of the486subcommittee--thank you for inviting me to testify before you today. My487aim over the course of this hearing is to provide you a sense of how488building big, beautiful infrastructure is at the top of the President's489priorities, and how we can work together on this bipartisan effort.490    Our Department has already saved taxpayers more than $9.5 billion491in the President's first 100 days. Those savings include money pulled492from projects tied up by wasteful DEI and climate requirements. We493inherited an unprecedented backlog of over 3,200 awarded projects494without signed grant agreements. Many of these projects dated back to4952022. The last administration was unorganized and unfocused as projects496around the country were stalled by inaction, and inefficiency. No one497is more frustrated with the inefficiencies of this process than I am.498    Currently there are 10-14 different systems to track the status of499grants across the Department. Under my leadership, I am committed to500consolidating all of this information into one dashboard so grantees501and can see how our money is spent. I promise to ensure radical502transparency to you all as well as the American people.503    The Department of Transportation is one of the few non-Defense504Federal agencies to receive an increase in funding under the505President's Budget for the FY 2026. The reason is simple: the president506wants to build. Our budget carefully focuses taxpayer resources on507items critical to our most fundamental mission of safety and investing508in transportation infrastructure. We have pushed forward with the509approval of 405 grants totaling $4.9 billion in the President's first510100 days. In total, the President's Budget requests $26.7 billion in511new discretionary funding for FY 2026, or $1.5 billion more than FY5122025 enacted, about a 5.8 percent increase.513    We do not take additional funds from hard-working taxpayers for514granted in an era where government has become too big, too inefficient,515and too wasteful. We have carefully planned for these dollars to fund516urgent projects that once built, will serve future generations for517decades.518    Our budget requests $18 billion in discretionary appropriations for519the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), $1 billion more than FY 2025520enacted. Recent tragedies such as the mid- air collision above DCA have521demonstrated the need to refocus our agency on the core mission of522safety. That's why we are increasing funding for the FAA. Specifically,523the budget supports hiring and training 2,500 new air traffic524controllers, revamping key air traffic facilities, and replacing525antiquated radar systems with the latest technology.526    The President has also expressed the revitalization of American527shipbuilding as a central pillar of his Administration's plan to make528America great again. Our budget provides the Maritime Administration529(MARAD) $596 million more than FY 2025 enacted. These funds will enable530MARAD to carry out the President's historic executive order for the531creation of a golden age in shipbuilding. The request includes $550532million to reinforce port infrastructure and $105 million to resurrect533neglected shipyards. The budget also boosts the President's534infrastructure focus by providing an additional $770 million for INFRA-535the Nationally Significant Multimodal Freight & Highways Projects536program. Finally, our budget makes a five-fold investment in rail537safety and infrastructure by providing $500 million in additional538Consolidated Rail Infrastructure and Safety Improvements Program539(CRISI) funds.540    There's so much more we can do together, and I look forward to541working with Congress on unlocking what's possible through these542historic investments to American infrastructure.543544    Senator Hyde-Smith. Well, we thank you for your opening545statement, and now we're going to go to Senator Collins.546    Senator Collins. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. First,547before I begin my comments, let me salute you for your548leadership of this subcommittee. I once had the position that549you now hold, and I know how important it is, and I want to550welcome the new Vice-Chair as well. And I know that you'll work551together and continue your great work.552    Mr. Secretary, I want to begin by thanking you for553recognizing so swiftly the need for replacement and554modernization of our air traffic control system. And the555presence of the Lilleys here today reminds us all of what is at556stake. So, thank you for being here as well.557    For years, this committee has put money into modernizing558the air traffic control system, and we just never have seen559real results. A radar would be fixed here or there, but what we560really need to do is completely modernize the entire system.561And I know that that is your goal. That's going to cost562significant money, but it is an investment that we must make.563We are facing a crisis. When I learned from you that we were564still using copper rather than fiber, it is stunning.565    So, my question to you is, will you work with the Committee566on the concept of having emergency funding that would cover the567entire cost of this much needed replacement?568    Secretary Duffy. I appreciate the question, Senator, and569I'm grateful for the conversations you've had with me on this570topic. Yeah, I'm happy to work with this committee and the571whole body. I think what one of the mistakes of the past is we572did do piecemeal funding without a big vision. And sometimes we573were trying to deploy high-tech ideas where the system that we574were operating off of was not ready for those high-tech ideas.575    And so, I would--what I'm going to ask, and I don't know576what vehicle you want to use, I don't know what the approach577will be from this body, but I would like this body to give the578DOT and the FAA the money upfront, advance appropriations. And579with that, I will be happy myself, or for the FAA, to come back580I think on a quarterly basis and give you updates on the581progress- good, bad, and ugly. Are we hitting our timelines?582Are we behind? Are we on budget? I think America and the body,583if you buy into this idea, deserve that.584    I also think we're going to have to think about can we get585permitting reform? This can be slowed down by the permitting586process, but if we're laying fiber and we're not building, you587know, four lane highways, we're not building skyscrapers. It's588a pretty streamlined approach. But if we're going to build589fast, which is necessary, I do think we'll need permitting590reform as well from this body. And I think--I'm committed to591working with all of you on however you can envision us doing592this together. I would welcome the opportunity. Thank you,593Senator.594    Senator Collins. Thank you. I also want to echo the Chair's595concerns about the Administration's budget cuts for the596Essential Air Service program. This program is a lifeline to597rural communities, not only in Maine, but across America. In598Maine, we have five airports that would not have commercial air599service but for the Essential Air Service program. They include600Augusta, Waterville, Hancock County, Bar Harbor, Rockland, and601Presque Isle, Maine. Just last weekend, I participated in a602groundbreaking for a new terminal at the Presque Isle Airport.603    So, this is really important for economic development, for604getting to medical treatment, for tourism. It's so important to605rural America to have this program. How would you plan to606support air service to rural communities who rely on this607program absent a sufficiently funded EAS program?608    Secretary Duffy. I anticipated I was going to get a number609of questions from virtually everyone on this panel about this610program. I understand your concern. I am going to work on611trying to bring efficiencies to the program, bring costs down612on the program. As I dig into that, I'd be happy to partner and613communicate with all of you on the Committee as we go through614that process.615    Again, I do understand how meaningful Essential Air Service616is for so many communities across the country. And I need to do617some work in the coming weeks. And as I do that, I'd be happy618to have a conversation with you about how we're seeing it, and619how we think we can do more with less.620    Senator Collins. Thank you. I think you're going to need to621do more with more but I appreciate your commitment to work with622the Committee.623    [Laughter.]624    Maine is home of the Maine Maritime Academy, which has a625well-earned reputation for educating some of the best mariners626anywhere in the world. And, fortunately, the faculty and the627midshipmen are eagerly awaiting the completion of the Academy's628new state of the art training vessel, which is going to greatly629enhance mariner training and preparedness.630    I understand that you recently saw, made Maritime's631training vessel during a trip to the Philadelphia Shipyard, and632I welcome you to come see it again when it--after it has633completed its voyage to the beautiful coast of Maine. Could you634talk just briefly, because we're out of time, almost about the635emphasis that the Administration is placing on better preparing636our maritime workforce?637    Secretary Duffy. Yeah. I appreciate the question, and I'll638be quick. The ship is beautiful. By the way, the Maritime639Administration (MARAD) is building ships on budget and on time.640The Maine is one of them. But again, I think we have to invest641in shipbuilding in America. The seas are so important for642defense, for moving products, and we have ceded this territory643to Japan, South Korea, to China specifically, and we have to644revitalize American shipbuilding.645    It's going to take vision, and it's going to take help from646this body and presidential leadership, but I do think it's647important. And then when we have those ships, we need mariners648to sail those ships, and our academies across the country are649critical to bring out those young men and women who can who can650operate the great vessels for this country.651    Senator Collins. We look forward to your visit.652    Secretary Duffy. Thank you.653    Senator Collins. Thank you, Madam Chair.654    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Senator Collins. And Mr.655Secretary, as someone who represents dozens of airports in my656state, and we all frequently fly every week so we can get to DC657and back. We're all very troubled by the mishaps and challenges658within our nation's air traffic control systems.659    But the staffing shortages and the technological issues,660particularly in the Newark airspace, they're not isolated661incidents. And these have been happening across the country,662and they highlight a system that is under tremendous strain.663But in many cases, the technology is outdated and simply cannot664meet the demands of the aviation system.665    A perfect example is the use of the radar systems from the666'70s and the times that you've held up the floppy disc, and667said, ``we have to order things off of eBay to repair.'' It's668pretty alarming. Congress has a clear opportunity and a669responsibility to act, and I commend you and President Trump670for the recent commitment to invest in upgrading this critical671infrastructure and to reinforce the air traffic workforce. It672is certainly much needed and a step in the right direction.673    But as you are aware, the Committee has a long bipartisan674history of directing more funding to the FAA for modernization675and for hiring critical safety staff, including air traffic676controllers, and then the safety inspectors. Will you explain677how the additional funds requested in your budget will serve as678a down payment to jumpstart the FAA's new modernization679efforts, and how this effort enhances existing next generation680activities for which the committee has previously appropriated681tens of billions of dollars throughout the years? Could you682explain that?683    Secretary Duffy. Yes. So, if I could just make one684clarification. We do try to buy replacement parts on eBay for685this really old equipment. Sometimes, we can't even find it on686eBay. So, we're trying to use 3D printing to craft replacement687parts for the system that we use.688    And just one other point, we do see cracks in the system.689We'll see those cracks to the tune of multiple hundreds per690week. Now, again, systems aren't going down, but if you look at691how the system is operating, it should be troubling for692everybody, and a warning sign that time is not on our side, and693it's important that we make the investments.694    What we're doing right now, and I think the air traffic695control shortage is critical. We're 3,000 short. We've been6963,000 short for some time. And so, by the way, you'd think it's697not that hard to think through, just get more controllers into698the system and through the system. It actually is more699complicated. What we've done is we're trying to get the best700air traffic controllers who score on the test into the academy701first. So, we've made a best qualified category. If you score702in the 90-plus percentile, we're going to streamline you703quicker into the academy. If you're 80 to 90, you take a704different path. That's important.705    The medical part of this was really challenging. It was706taking way too long, months. We've worked to get our academy707prospects getting the medicals done sooner, and then getting708the results from those tests back quicker. We're paying bonuses709to make that happen to the doctors who do the test, but we710don't have another choice. We have to move up our academy711grads.712    We've offered counseling. I was at Oklahoma City, and a lot713of the students were saying, ``Listen, if we could just get714some extra help, I mean, we can make it, but a few of us are715having a little bit of issues in this little space, and instead716of washing out, we'll get those controllers to make it, but717could you give us a little bit of extra counseling, if we need718it--tutoring if we need it.''719    And so, we've implemented that for those controllers who720are just on the edge to make sure they can make it through the721program because we have a 35 percent washout rate at the722academy. 35 percent. If we could just move that to 25 percent,723we're going to make up a real difference in the number of724controllers that we get through the academy, passing the test,725and then training up.726    And then I think what's also important is we have great air727traffic controllers on the job. They can retire per the rules728of Congress after 25 years of service. Well, these are the most729experienced, so we're offering them a 20 percent bonus upfront730to stay in the job. ``Please don't retire, stay and provide a731service to your country and your community.'' And I think we're732going to get a good take up rate on that as well to keep more733of those experience controllers on the job.734    And so, it's increasing the pipeline, and that's one part.735And then keeping those controllers on the job is the second736part. And I think those two taken together are going to--again,737it's going to take some time.738    Can I just make one of the last point on this, and I just739want--I think it's important to note, I can't take a 20-year740experienced air traffic controller from Denver and move them to741the Philly TRACON for Senator Gillibrand and say, ``Let's just742use this controller to control the airspace.'' Because that743really great controller from Denver has to get trained up on744the Newark airspace, and it can take them upwards of a year to745get trained specifically on that airspace. So, I just can't746move controllers around and address the shortfalls that we have747in certain TRACONs or towers. It takes time.748    And even, you know, training up more controllers once749you're out of the academy, it takes a year to 3 years to get750them fully trained. And so, this is going to be a longer751process, and all of us working together to have some vision is752going to be what's key to resolving this in the next, you know,753one, two, and 3 years.754    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you. And thank you for that755forward thinking in the ways that we can extend that. I want to756talk briefly about the Air Traffic Collegiate Training757Initiative since we were talking about that. And you know, I've758spoken to you several times about my work in Mississippi to759help boost aviation workforce. So, critically important.760    And the need in this field is obviously, as you're just761describing, endless, but the FAA Air Traffic Collegiate762Training Initiative in partnership with select colleges and763universities, has successfully taught the basics of the air764traffic control to qualified students, which allow them to765quickly progress through the FAA Academy.766    What can this committee do to help the additional schools767into the Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative (ATC-TI)768program to help increase the number of the ATC staff, and would769that require also expanding capacity for the FAA Academy?770    Secretary Duffy. That's a great question. So, I do think if771this committee wanted to consider a competitive grant program,772the simulators are expensive for air traffic controllers. And a773lot of these schools, it is challenging to make the $1 million-774plus investment in those simulators. And so, if there was a775competitive grant program that you all wanted to consider to go776to some of the--I think there's five schools around the country777that want to be involved in training up those air traffic778controllers--I think that would be welcome.779    What's also at the--it's been hard. We have air traffic780controllers at Oklahoma City who are doing the training, and781the former air traffic controllers were teaching all of the782classes. What we've done is some of the classes, you don't need783an air traffic controller. You know, if we're doing some math784classes, we can take just a professor to teach the math class.785I don't need an air traffic controller.786    So, we're going to bring in professors to teach classes787that professors can teach. And that means we have more air788traffic controllers to teach air traffic control classes, which789means we can expand the capacity of Oklahoma City, getting more790young people in and through the academy. And so, again, because791this--it's the chicken or the egg, but we weren't getting792enough air traffic controllers to come in and teach at the793academy. This is allowing us to use the ones that we have to794stretch them further. And again, that means I think we can--795next year we're at 2,000 right now, I think we can get to 2,300796in the next fiscal year in through the Academy.797    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you. And briefly, because I'm way798over my time, would you speak to the importance of supporting799our small shipyards, especially in the wake of decreases in the800dedicated funding in recent years?801    Secretary Duffy. 100 percent. Again, I think this is an802all-of-America approach to shipbuilding. Larger, smaller yards803have to be supported. And again, I think it's going to take all804shipyards and all of government if we're going to be successful805in ramping up American shipbuilding.806    Senator Hyde-Smith. Well, the funding, the Administration's807proposal to fund these grants at $105 million is a808demonstration, certainly, that you're directing the support809there. And we certainly appreciate that.810    I am going to, ask Senator Gillibrand, to state her811questions.812    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Mr.813Secretary, the Department of Defense is required to consult814with the Department of Transportation prior to deploying815counter-UAS systems. You and I have talked about this. I've816partnered with Senator Cotton on the COUNTER Act to update817DOD's counter-UAS authorities and ensure that all bases in818particular are covered.819    Our bill will lead to an increase in the volume of requests820to the Department of Transportation for real time execution and821pre-coordination of counter-UAS packages. Unfortunately, DOT822has lost numerous staff who focus on the Spectrum Engineering823Office. Will you commit to increasing staffing for the Spectrum824Engineering Office so the DOT is not holding up DOD's counter-825UAS missions, and if not, what's your plan?826    Secretary Duffy. So, what we're--I think we can be more827efficient. I think we can do more with less. But we are828mission-driven. And so, if I see staffing shortages that will829prohibit us from meeting the mission--and too many people have830taken a deferred resignation program--I'm going to no doubt831hire more people.832    Senator Gillibrand. So, just so you understand, the833legislation, what Senator Cotton and I are trying to do, is834give authority to the Department of Defense for the four835corners of any military site, to be able to take them down836immediately so that we can actually assess who they are, why837are they hovering? Because the incursions over Langley, you838should brief yourself, you should get a classified briefing,839highly concerning.840    Second, we then want to be able to track and trace that841drone when they leave the base, so that we know who's launching842them from what field, who owns the field, from what ship, who843owns the ship, that's where we need your coordination. But it844has to be instantaneously. Like, within the 30-minute window,845or we will lose that opportunity to arguably take down or get846information about an adversary.847    Secretary Duffy. First of all, I appreciate your work on848this. This gets to be very complicated, but this is incredibly849important.850    Senator Gillibrand. Yes.851    Secretary Duffy. If we just look at what's happening in852Ukraine and Russia, what's happening with drones is probably a853wave of the future. I do think we have to think through how do854we allow the commercial side of drone use to expand, and how do855we still protect critical infrastructure with no-fly zones,856restricting airspace? And the department has--the FAA has been857working on that now to think through how we do both of those858missions as part of the equities of FAA.859    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you. I want to ask you also about860the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy. We've talked briefly about861this. What is your plan to modernize it. Are you prepared to862ask for the funding that you need, and are you committed to863making sure our Merchant Marine Academy is on par with any864other service academy in the United States?865    Secretary Duffy. I appreciate the question. This is in866Kings Point, New York. It's a beautiful place with rotting867infrastructure. I was talking about this with you earlier. The868midshipmen went 4 months without hot water, taking cold showers869at the Academy. They eat off paper plates because their870dishwasher was broken. They have mold in their dorms. This is871not a facility that deserves to have the name America872associated with it.873    And there, we would ask for some flexibility with how we874use the money that's been given. But I think we have $170875million that's been appropriated by this committee that I don't876think has been effectively used. There's been roadblocks, I877think, at MARAD and at the Academy. We're going to work with878the Army Corps of Engineers to develop a plan on how we use the879money that's been given.880    Senator Gillibrand. Yeah. I'd be grateful if you would881submit the plan to me in writing and the committee so we can882study it and be helpful.883    Secretary Duffy. Absolutely.884    Senator Gillibrand. And then, one point of interest is DOD885has these annual reports on the incidents of sexual assault in886the military. And it's been a useful barometer of are we887providing oversight and accountability? Is the military justice888system worthy of the sacrifice of our men and women? You are889due a report within the next couple of weeks to have the Annual890Sexual Assault and Sexual Harassment Report. Will you commit to891making sure that gets to us?892    Secretary Duffy. Yes. I'll see where the status of that893report is, and we'll no doubt try to be timely on that to the894Senate.895    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you. Capital Investment Grants in896the fiscal year 2025 Continuing Resolution and the bipartisan897Infrastructure Law, we provided $3.8 billion for Capital898Investment Grant programs for new transit projects. There are899six of these projects that are national in scope of900significance. They are already signed full funding grant901agreements. Do I have your commitment that you will move902forward on these projects?903    Secretary Duffy. Are these announced grants or are these--904--905    Senator Gillibrand. Yes. So, Los Angeles, the West Side906Subway, Section 3, Illinois, the Red Line Extension,907Minneapolis, the Southwest LRT, New York, the Second Avenue908Subway Phase 2, New York, New Jersey, the Hudson Tunnel909Gateway, and Washington State Lynnwood Link Extension.910    Secretary Duffy. Okay. If you're asking me if I plan on911canceling those grant agreements, I do not.912    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Madam Chair.913    Senator Hyde-Smith. Now, we go to Senator Kennedy.914    Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Madam Chair.915    Mr. Secretary, welcome.916    Secretary Duffy. It's good to be with you, Senator.917    Senator Kennedy. Do you know what the Center of Excellence918for Liquified Natural Gas is?919    Secretary Duffy. Why, I do.920    Senator Kennedy. Where are you going to put it?921    Secretary Duffy. I think it's going to go in your state,922Senator.923    Senator Kennedy. When you going to announce it?924    Secretary Duffy. Very soon. I know our teams have been925working together on that. If you want to front run it here, we926could, but I know that we are working on an announcement927together, and our teams have been working.928    Senator Kennedy. I want to front run the hell out it.929    Secretary Duffy. All right.930    [Laughter.]931    Senator Kennedy. Where's it going to be put? Is it in932Louisiana?933    Secretary Duffy. Is it Lake----934    Senator Kennedy. McNeese?935    Secretary Duffy. Lake Charles, McNeese.936    Senator Kennedy. Yes. And you're going to make an937announcement, Sean, the next few days?938    Secretary Duffy. Yes. I know we've been working on some939finer points and details, but yes, that's where it's going to940go. And I think if my memory serves me, I think we were trying941to get this stood up and moving by this summer.942    Senator Kennedy. Well, I want to get it announced first.943    Secretary Duffy. Sure.944    Senator Kennedy. So your colleagues can't take it back.945    Secretary Duffy. No one's taking anything from you,946Senator. It's coming your way.947    Senator Kennedy. I see my old friend, Mr. Plotkin, here.948Watch him like a hawk, by the way.949    Secretary Duffy. He said, ``You do not want to make Senator950Kennedy upset on this project.''951    Senator Kennedy. Well, your predecessor told me a number of952times that it was about to be announced, and it was never953announced. I don't mean any disrespect. I just finally didn't954believe him anymore. I don't think Elvis is alive either, so I955learned. But if you could go ahead and announce it, it would it956sure would--I'll buy you a soda and a nice hat.957    Secretary Duffy. I would appreciate that.958    Senator Kennedy. Okay. When you got to the Department and959became Secretary, did you fire a bunch of air traffic960controllers?961    Secretary Duffy. I did not, Senator.962    Senator Kennedy. Did Mr. Musk do that?963    Secretary Duffy. He did not.964    Senator Kennedy. Where did all this stuff come from?965    Secretary Duffy. So, there were about 350 probationary966employees at the FAA that were let go, and we're trying to967stream--there's 46,000 people that work at the FAA, so this was968a minuscule percentage, but even air traffic controllers who969were probationary employees were excluded. All safety positions970were preserved at the FAA, including air traffic controllers,971and so, I think it's a narrative that some in media and in972politics have tried to drive as if we're not focused on safety.973But I have been crystal clear, and I think I've said this until974my face is blue, though it's not today, but it could be because975we did not actually fire any air traffic controllers, Senator.976We've been hiring air traffic controllers as quickly as we can.977And so, I don't know how many times I have to say it.978    Senator Kennedy. Let's say it one more time.979    Secretary Duffy. Yes.980    Senator Kennedy. When you became Secretary, look me in the981eye, did you fire any air traffic controllers?982    Secretary Duffy. I did not. And I did hire air traffic983controllers.984    Senator Kennedy. Did Mr. Musk?985    Secretary Duffy. So, by the way, Mr. Musk doesn't fire or986hire anybody at the Department. I do. And so, no, he didn't987fire anybody, including air traffic controllers.988    Senator Kennedy. Okay. You probably don't have to, but when989most people go through TSA, they take your picture, they have a990little camera there, and they say, ``Look in the camera. We991want to take your picture.'' Now, underneath it is this little992bitty sign that you can barely see. And I think it's written in993Sanskrit that says, this is optional. I won't let them take my994picture.995    Secretary Duffy. I won't either, Senator.996    Senator Kennedy. And they promised us that they destroy the997data. Once again, I don't believe that Elvis is alive either.998Senator Merkley and I have a bill--there's been no evidence999that this has prevented any acts of terrorism, and I just don't1000know why the Federal government has to collect this huge1001database of every American who flies' picture.1002    Secretary Duffy. I thank you for that. I couldn't agree1003with you more. I actually try to turn my head away from the1004camera when I go through and they're taking pictures. There's1005no need. I think Americans have a right to privacy. And I don't1006think you need a digital scan of my face to allow me to have1007the right to fly on airplane. I think it's absolutely wrong.1008And what does it do to security? I don't think it breeds any1009more security in our airspace, on our airplanes. And so, thank1010you for doing that work. I couldn't agree with you more.1011    Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Madam Chair.1012    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you. And we go to Senator Murray.1013    Senator Murray. Well, thank you very much, Chair Hyde1014Smith, and welcome to the Committee Ranking Member Gillibrand.1015Look forward to working with both of you on this extremely1016important committee. And I do want to say that I am really1017honored to have Tim and Sherri Lilley with us today. I know how1018hard this must be for you, and I also know how important it is1019that you are here today. We all want to fix this air traffic1020system to make sure this never happens again. So, your presence1021means a lot to all of us. Thank you for being here.1022    Secretary Duffy, let me turn to you. As you know, every1023day, billions of dollars in commerce, countless lives depend on1024your agency to keep our roads, our rails, our skies, and ports1025running safely and smoothly. You're responsible for getting1026hundreds of billions of dollars provided by Congress out the1027door to build thousands of infrastructure projects across our1028country.1029    Yet, since January 20th, virtually every dollar and1030transportation project has been held up at some point. And you1031are causing a traffic jam, from freezing funding for projects,1032to creating new hurdles by reevaluating grants that had already1033been approved, adding red tape by forcing unacceptable1034political demands on state and local transportation agencies,1035and outright actually canceling and cutting grants.1036    You know, this is not normal. No prior Transportation1037Secretary has cut funding for previously awarded grants in this1038manner. It is really, to me, a political and partisan approach1039that really actually sets a terrible precedent. I know at the1040House Appropriations hearing yesterday, you blamed the previous1041administration for absolutely everything.1042    But I just want to say this today, the last administration1043did not make the decision to hold up thousands of grants. Had1044nothing to do with the new red tape that you have created, and1045certainly did not let go of hundreds of staff to help get those1046grants out the door. In fact, the last administration increased1047the number of grants signed from 330 in its first year to over10481,500 last year, executing more than 3,350 projects. So, you1049can't blame Secretary Buttigieg or President Biden. It simply1050doesn't pass master.1051    All the while we know you have pushed out nearly 5,0001052Department of Transportation employees, firings, buyouts, and1053you have actually said you will fire thousands more. You know,1054we just don't need fewer people keeping trains on the track, or1055making sure that the airbags work, or rebuilding our roads and1056public transit systems. We actually need more of them. And in1057as recent months, as we have heard already, we've seen1058unacceptable chaos at the Newark Airport, the devastating crash1059at DCA, and a lot of other close calls.1060    And while you talk about modernizing the air traffic1061control system, you have forced out more than 2,000 FAA1062employees who support those air traffic controllers, the1063technicians, the mechanics, the engineers, the IT specialists1064at the FAA who were working on modernization, which I think is1065a huge mistake and you just can't paper over it.1066    Now, regarding your recent FAA proposal, I stand ready to1067work with Chair Collins along with Chair Hyde-Smith and Ranking1068Member Gillibrand to make sure that Congress does provide the1069resources FAA needs in our fiscal year 2026 funding bill and1070across future years in order to address the glaring issues and1071failures we've seen, and to do so without short-changing other1072priorities.1073    So, Mr. Secretary, let me start with aviation safety.1074You've, as you know, proposed to modernize the air traffic1075control system. This committee does have jurisdiction over the1076FAA facilities and equipment funding, but your proposal was not1077included in the President's 2026 budget. We need the actual1078dollars and cents plans.1079    So, let me ask you, how many of the over 2,000 FAA1080employees that have been pushed out over the last few months1081will be needed to be brought back in order to modernize the1082system?1083    Secretary Duffy. I don't think any of them will be--need to1084be brought back. And I would just say there's, in the1085characterization of the last three minutes, I would disagree1086with much of what you said. The DOT and the FAA, were not jobs1087programs. This is about a mission, and I'm committed to you and1088this body to accomplish that mission. And can we do more with1089less? Of course we can do more with less. And if some people1090who want to retire, we should let them retire. Let's bring in1091people who are hungry then that want to do the mission.1092    Senator Murray. I don't disagree with that.1093    Secretary Duffy. I appreciate that. That's what we're1094doing.1095    Senator Murray. But what we have seen is really critical1096employees to the mission are now gone. As I said, technicians1097and mechanics. You can have all your air traffic controllers1098there, but if they don't have the support staff, we can't know1099that they're doing the job. That's what I was referring to.1100    Secretary Duffy. But I would say that we don't have a1101support staff issue with FAA. We don't have enough controllers1102for the skies that we have in America. That is the issue that1103I'm addressing.1104    Senator Murray. Okay. Well, let me just say that since you1105became Secretary, air traffic controllers have twice received1106``Fork in the Road'' emails encouraging them to resign, which1107you have sent, I know sent mistakenly.1108    Secretary Duffy. None of them have taken it. They can't1109take it because they're not included.1110    Senator Murray. They received the mail. You're an employee,1111you got the same email. And I just think it's really callous to1112send to controllers these emails saying your work is not1113valued. So, do you know who sent those emails to our air1114traffic controllers?1115    Secretary Duffy. So, you can talk about the system that we1116have to send emails out. I think it's antiquated, old, and----1117    Senator Murray. I just asked who.1118    Secretary Duffy. I don't know. No, I don't know how they1119would've gotten those emails.1120    Senator Murray. You don't know who sent them. Nobody's been1121fired for sending those, out?1122    Secretary Duffy. That they would've had the wrong email for1123an air traffic controller versus someone else in the FAA. No,1124I'm not going to fire someone over that. But what I'm going to1125do is we in lightning speed, we've developed a plan to fully1126rebuild the air traffic control system.1127    And so, the tech team that I have in place at the FAA,1128they've been doing a remarkable job because it happened very1129quickly. And, oftentimes, government doesn't work that fast.1130And they also saw the problem that all of you have seen. And we1131have been working really quickly to develop a plan and present1132a plan.1133    You mentioned money. I do think this is--the money that1134we're going to need for this new air traffic control system,1135it's not in this budget, because I don't think we can wait1136until October 1st to get the resources to begin the process.1137    Senator Murray. I recognize that, and I am concerned as1138Vice-Chair working with Senator Collins, how we're going to1139provide that funding. This is a question we're going to have to1140pursue.1141    I do want to say, you and I have talked about the1142importance of the FAA's oversight of Boeing, and I know you1143visited there in March. I'm going to be tracking carefully to1144make sure that the more than 50 new staff needed to support1145Boeing oversight are hired and if you backfilled any employees.1146    And, Madam Chair, I know my time is limited, but I did just1147want to mention budget cuts because the skinny budget that you1148sent to us proposes about a $3 billion increase to specific DOT1149programs. But overall, your top line only increases $1.51150billion. So, you spell out about $300 million in cuts directly,1151you leave $1 billion in cuts that this budget implies and are1152not there. So, we need the details of that in order for us to1153do that. Do you know when we will get that?1154    Secretary Duffy. I don't have an exact date for the exact1155budget, but I look forward to getting it to you as quickly as1156possible. Obviously, we work with the OMB on budget.1157    Senator Murray. You do realize the discrepancy in the1158numbers, and we need to see where it's----1159    Secretary Duffy. Yes. But they'll all match up when we give1160you the complete details.1161    Senator Murray. Full budget.1162    Secretary Duffy. Yes.1163    Senator Murray. And do you know when that will be to us?1164    Secretary Duffy. I don't have a date from OMB yet when1165that's going to be completed.1166    Senator Murray. Okay. Thank you.1167    Secretary Duffy. And Senator, I would love to work with you1168on I-5. I do think that's an issue that I know that the1169delegation cares about. And I think there are some simple,1170maybe not simple, but easy things that we could do to think1171through how we could move that forward more quickly. And again,1172there's some certain laws in place that are prohibiting the1173advancement of the project, and I would love to have an1174additional conversation. I think it's a project that's worthy1175and should be done.1176    Senator Murray. Happy to get in touch with you on that.1177Okay. Thank you.1178    Senator Hyde-Smith. Senator Moran.1179    Senator Moran. Thank you very much. Mr. Secretary, thank1180you for your presence here. More importantly, thank you for1181your presence in the air safety world that you are now1182operating in. After your confirmation, you became the1183Secretary. The first time I ever met you was on January the118429th at Reagan National Airport. And I appreciate the manner in1185which you conducted yourself, and the things that you have done1186every day thereafter to make the skies safer and to honor the1187Lilley's son and every other tragic loss that occurred that1188night on that flight from Wichita, Kansas. I appreciate you.1189    I want to talk a little bit about some of these things that1190are related to that event, that tragedy. First of all, prior to1191the Army Aviation Brigade resuming helicopter operations at the1192national capital region in late April, did the Army or1193Department of Defense coordinate with you or the FAA? Did you1194then review and approve their reentry into the field of1195operations?1196    Secretary Duffy. So, what we did after, I think it was 361197hours after.1198    Senator Moran. You said no, they came back. Did they1199consult with you?1200    Secretary Duffy. When they came back? Well, I was talking1201about--are we talking about the off of Runway 33 the restricted1202airspace?1203    Senator Moran. Yes.1204    Secretary Duffy. They still can't fly through that1205airspace. We have no fixed wing helo cross traffic.1206    Senator Moran. And other airspace at Reagan?1207    Secretary Duffy. There's still no cross traffic. But what1208you have seen is some helos at the Pentagon taking off1209sometimes carrying VIPs and sometimes doing training missions.1210And that has been a concern.1211    Senator Moran. And nothing has changed in your order to1212prevent them--to allow them to return. True.1213    Secretary Duffy. Well, I hadn't prohibited them.1214    Senator Moran. They did it on their own.1215    Secretary Duffy. They do, yes.1216    Senator Moran. But the problem is they could change their1217mind. And I want to know whether there's consultation between1218the Army and the Transportation Department, you or the FAA.1219    Secretary Duffy. So, Secretary Hegseth paused any1220helocopter traffic out of the Pentagon, which I commend him for1221that. But we are going to continue that pause at the FAA at our1222discretion. And our teams are working together. I'm very1223concerned about the amount of traffic that's coming out of the1224Pentagon. And I do think if there's training missions, those1225training missions can be done at certain times of the day when1226we have less traffic into DCA-number one.1227    And if there's VIP travel, I would like to know, who are1228the VIPs? Who is traveling on these helos, who classifies--I1229don't think any of you here get helicopter travel anywhere, and1230I would consider you all VIPs. Who's traveling, Senator.1231    Senator Moran. Its one of the questions I intend to ask in1232Appropriation hearings as we have Defense Appropriation1233Subcommittee hearings.1234    Secretary Duffy. Thank you.1235    Senator Moran. I would like to know the answer to that1236question.1237    Secretary Duffy. If you'd share that with me, too, I'd1238appreciate it.1239    Senator Moran. And I've introduced legislation that I think1240is of value. In 2000 fiscal year 2019--I said that wrong. In1241fiscal year 2019 NDAA, allowed prevention of DOT to require1242installation of ADS-B equipment on those army helicopters. It1243didn't stipulate in or out, but it allowed legislation that was1244passed by Congress allowing the Army to operate without ADS-B.1245    I've introduced legislation that would eliminate that NDAA1246provision, which I guess would put more back in your court to1247make decisions. Is that something that you would support or do1248support?1249    Secretary Duffy. It is. And I think in regard to the ADS-B,1250it's not simple to turn it on and off. It's a little more1251complicated than that on the aircraft. And if they're doing1252training missions or flying through busy airspace, ADS-B out1253should be on.1254    However, if there is an actual national security mission at1255play, true national security, how do they quickly turn it off?1256Because we don't want enemies to see our aircraft, but the way1257this has been operated, I would support the idea that, yes, all1258of them should have ADS-B out activated.1259    Senator Moran. Thank you. Mr. Secretary, I want to1260highlight so that you're not disappointed that I also care1261about Essential Air Service along with my colleagues, and let1262your stereotype of this committee, this subcommittee be firmly1263implanted. Hugely important to Kansas.1264    We also have issues related to air traffic control, in this1265case separate from kind of the normal air traffic control1266towers. We utilize contract air traffic control towers at some1267of our smaller airports. I'd love to hear from you that that's1268a program that you're aware of and supportive of.1269    Secretary Duffy. I'm aware and supportive of.1270    Senator Moran. Thank you. And then highlight--well, I want1271to highlight the importance of CRISI Grants. Your department1272has significant opportunities to increase railroad and traffic1273highway safety. And, finally, in regard to tariffs, 19791274agreement on trade civil aircraft has been a great benefit to1275this country. We have trade surpluses in the aviation aerospace1276world. We certainly export more than we import.1277    And we are hoping that you will be a voice in discussions1278within the administration, within the cabinet, about the value1279of allowing this trade agreement since 1979 to work its course1280and let it continue to do the good things that we have been1281able to accomplish with an integrated supply chain that makes1282America number one and allows Wichita, Kansas, to be the air1283capital of the world.1284    Secretary Duffy. I support the President's efforts to1285actually bring more manufacturing and more fair trade to this1286country, to our people. I've also brought up the 19791287agreement. I think on net, it's an $80 billion export benefit1288to the U.S. aviation. So, the point is well made, and I've1289communicated that to the powers that be in the administration.1290    Senator Moran. Mr. Secretary, thank you for using your1291position for good.1292    Secretary Duffy. Thank you.1293    Senator Hyde-Smith. Senator Reed.1294    Senator Reed. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Mr. Secretary,1295welcome. And let me first begin by thanking you for your1296assistance to expediting the release of $220 million for the1297Washington Bridge. That is very critical to our state. It1298really is the linkage between one side of our capital city,1299Providence, and the other. Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary.1300    Secretary Duffy. I would love to come up in the summer and1301check that bridge out.1302    Senator Reed. I think you should come up. And by the way, I1303think you should also check out our restaurants. We have the1304best restaurants in America.1305    Secretary Duffy. I was there for the first time with my1306wife this last September, and we're shocked at how beautiful1307your great state is.1308    Senator Reed. Thank you, sir. But let me pose a question1309that I think all my colleagues have, that is there's still1310significant amounts of DOT money that have not been released.1311It was properly awarded, authorized, appropriated, et cetera.1312Can you give us an idea of when and will all of these funds be1313forthcoming?1314    Secretary Duffy. Yes, so I do think it's important to know1315what was left for me. And I know that all of you, when you get1316an announcement, you want the grant agreement so you can build1317a project. But under between Obama and Donald Trump, and from1318an Election Day to Inauguration Day, Obama team announced 481319grants. And then from Trump to Biden, the Donald Trump team1320announced 100 grants. And Pete Buttigieg, between Election Day1321and Inauguration Day, announced almost 1,000 grants.1322    I told that to Senator Schatz as well before, but this is a1323lot of grants that were announced. And so, the workload is1324real. And if I could show you a chart, I have a chart here that1325will indicate how many grants we have, have grant agreements1326on.13271328    Secretary Duffy. And these are fiscal years from Secretary1329Buttigieg. But you can see at the start of even the last1330administration, they weren't moving as fast as we're moving.1331So, I'm committed to getting through this as quickly as1332possible. We're at a pretty good clip, and I think it's going1333to continue to pick up as we work through the process. And I1334think there's technology that we can deploy to make this go1335even faster.1336    Senator Reed. There are some concerns that these projects1337not be being evaluated on engineering and other aspects, of1338course, benefits, but there is issues of climate change and1339social issues more than economic issues or transportation1340issues. Are you including DEI in these evaluations and climate1341change?1342    Secretary Duffy. Yes. In regard to the grant agreements1343that we have out now and the announcements, I am. And some of1344the requirements--if you want, I'll share them with you, and I1345can read some of them to you if you want.1346    Senator Reed. No. I just I think this is very realist1347question. Most people don't consider infrastructure, well,1348bridges, et cetera, to be DEI qualities, nor do they, after all1349the work that's done by DOT, by EPA as something that would be1350challenging to the environment. In fact, most of these1351projects, I would suggest, are designed to cope with changes.1352And you can call in with them if you want.1353    Secretary Duffy. So, there were a lot of requirements in1354the grant agreements in regard to DEI and in regard to climate1355change. And there was adding a lot of costs in time out of the1356projects. So, what I've done is tried to pull those out and say1357those requirements are no longer necessary for you to do your1358project. And I think I'm going to save you money and allow you1359to move quicker on your projects that are so meaningful to your1360communities.1361    Senator Reed. So, what you're saying is you will eventually1362release the funds, but you will modify the arrangements so that1363they don't have to do certain things. Is that accurate?1364    Secretary Duffy. So, in regard to the announcements, for1365which we don't have grant agreements, we're drafting grant1366agreements that don't include these issues.1367    Senator Reed. But you're committed to fulfilling the grant?1368    Secretary Duffy. Oh, listen, yeah.1369    Senator Reed. Another way to say this is that you're not1370going to defund projects because you object to language you1371consider to be DEI or informed?1372    Secretary Duffy. No, no, we're just trying to pull out that1373language unless it could not be re-scoped or pulled out, and1374it's just fundamentally something different. No, this is easy1375to pull this language out and save you money and time.1376    Senator Reed. Well, again, I think the faster--and you do1377have a challenge before you, the faster you can get these funds1378to the states, the better off.1379    Secretary Duffy. I've gotten a couple to your state pretty1380quickly.1381    Senator Reed. And you have my thanks for that.1382    Secretary Duffy. Thank you.1383    Senator Reed. My time is dwindling to seconds, but look1384forward to working with you, Mr. Secretary. Thank you.1385    Secretary Duffy. You as well. Thank you, Senator.1386    Senator Hyde-Smith. Senator Britt.1387    Senator Britt. Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to just start1388by saying, Secretary Duffy, we appreciate the way that you1389handled January 29th and the tragedy and all that unfolded1390afterwards. And just want to welcome the Lilley family here,1391and express our deepest condolences for the loss of your son,1392Sam. Watching you over the last few months, your grit, your1393tenacity, you're willing to speak up to make change in the face1394of the unimaginable.1395    As a mom who is sitting here with my daughter watching1396right over there, thank you for fighting for your son's legacy1397and making sure that, as you said, and I've heard you say that1398it's synonymous with air safety, with upgrading our system and1399making sure that others are better as a result of this. Thank1400you.1401    I'd like to start by highlighting a few projects in the1402great state of Alabama, and want to thank you for talking with1403me before your confirmation, allowing me to talk to you about1404the importance of so many things. But in particular one of my1405very top priorities is Alabama's I-10 Mobile Bay River Bridge1406Project. It's a significant investment, and it is critical to1407helping the state bring this to fruition to be able to partner,1408obviously, with the Federal government.1409    As you know, the Mobile River Bridge is a critical piece of1410transportation infrastructure, not just for the State of1411Alabama, not just for the region, but literally the entire1412nation. I mean, it connects from California to Florida. You1413can't get there without coming right across this bridge. And1414so, whether it is moving people or moving commerce, it is a1415primary transportation artery that we must take a look at, and1416we've got to upgrade.1417    So, obviously, we've made a lot of progress in this area,1418but the one thing that we are waiting on is the TIFIA loan for1419the project. And I want to stress how absolutely important that1420is to completing this project. And we'd love to ask you for1421your commitment to, you know, expeditiously taking a look and1422reviewing ALDOT's application so that we can get this moving.1423Because the longer that this goes on, the more it costs, and1424then, obviously, the more challenges that we have from both a1425safety and a commerce perspective.1426    Secretary Duffy. Time is money. And by the way, it's a1427great program. I'll look and see what the status is, and I'll1428get back to you as quickly as possible.1429    Senator Britt. And will you'll commit to taking a look at1430it, and looking at the overarching impact and the need for it1431in order to carry this to fruition.1432    Secretary Duffy. 100 percent. I'd just say that these are1433the kind of projects that also the President cares about, the1434big beautiful roads and bridges that connect to our country and1435move products, the important infrastructure.1436    Senator Britt. Absolutely. And on that, too, I mean, it's a1437vital financing tool. So, we are going to have--you're going to1438be meeting with ALDOT later this year, and so I'd love to1439follow-up with you additionally after this on that as well.1440    I also want to mention the CRISI Grant, which I understand1441is now in its final review. The grant will provide the1442essential infrastructure improvements. It's going to allow the1443freight rail to continue to meet the growing demands of the1444Mobile port.1445    So, the Mobile port has been the fastest growing port the1446last 6 years in a row. I think this is an excellent opportunity1447to see how when we utilize all forms of transportation; land1448and rail, and sea and air. We've got an airport project that1449we're doing there that is going to be transformative. I would1450love--I know you have a lot of things on your plate, but as you1451are moving across the country, I think this is an excellent1452example of how transportation can come together for the greater1453good, not just for the region, of the nation. And I'd love an1454opportunity to visit that with you.1455    Secretary Duffy. I would welcome that.1456    Senator Britt. Excellent. And when we're talking about big,1457beautiful transportation projects that you mentioned, President1458Trump has made it a priority. He has said publicly that he1459wants to see I-65 widened. He wants to see it to be a four-lane1460road there on each side. He said he was committed to making1461that happen.1462    Look, we know how important that is for our state. Anyone1463who wants to travel in Alabama get stuck on I-65. However, all1464of these great people who during the spring and summer want to1465come to Alabama's beautiful white sand Gulf Coast, or maybe1466even the Florida Panhandle, come right down 65.1467    And so, would just like your commitment to continuing to1468take a look at that. There's no way that project happens1469without a partnership with the Federal government, and want1470your commitment to making sure that we take a look at what1471President Trump has promised, and we figure out how to make1472that happen.1473    Secretary Duffy. I would just say the President's1474priorities are also my priorities. So, yes, I'll definitely1475take a look at that.1476    Senator Britt. Okay. Excellent. Excellent. We are glad to1477hear it. I want to associate myself with the comments from1478almost all of the members here when it comes to rural1479transportation services. The Essential Air Service is critical1480for a state like Alabama. We have 55 out of 67, our counties1481are rural in nature. Making sure that they're connected, and1482vibrant, and have the ability to move across places is1483important.1484    I mean, Alabama is home to many small airports, and they1485truly play a vital role in those areas being able to continue1486to grow and thrive. And so, in the broader context of FAA1487modernization, how are you going to ensure that these rural1488areas are included in the efforts that you have? And how do1489they continue to have access to both safe and reliable air1490transportation?1491    Secretary Duffy. You know, I also had a district that was1492very rural, northern Wisconsin. I understand rural America.1493We're a little colder than you are in Alabama up north.1494    Senator Britt. Just a little. But you're going to have a1495good football game, by the way, coming this fall.1496    Secretary Duffy. Yes, we will. But, listen, I want to work1497through that. I completely understand everyone's questions on1498Essential Air Service. I knew you were all going to ask me1499questions about Essential Air Service. And I get it. If you1500give me some space to work through what I think we can do, I'll1501partner with all of you and we're going to figure out a pathway1502forward.1503    Senator Britt. Well, thank you for your service. My time is1504up, but I also want to say thank you for putting family first.1505Your example with your family, obviously having my daughter1506here, though, just shows that that's the most important thing1507as we serve this nation and try to leave it better for the next1508generation. So, thank you.1509    Secretary Duffy. Thank you for your example, Senator.1510    Senator Hyde-Smith. Senator Coons.1511    Senator Coons. Thank you, Chair Hyde-Smith, and Ranking1512Member Gillibrand. Thank you, Secretary Duffy, for appearing1513before us today. I do hope we will get your actual, full budget1514soon and have the chance to review that with you. And when we1515do get it, I hope we will see sustained investment in Amtrak.1516    I regularly take Amtrak back and forth from Wilmington to1517Washington. They hit record ridership and record profitability1518just this past year. It also employs 1,500 people in Delaware,1519which is the midpoint of the Northeast Corridor. The Northeast1520Corridor is just really, frankly, the only aspect of Amtrak1521that has been financially stable for a long, long time. So, if1522the NEC experiences cuts, or some attempted privatization, or1523sharp change in direction, the impact will really harm the1524mostly heartland states and rural part of Amtrak's national1525network.1526    Elon Musk has called for privatizing Amtrak. It's made1527steady positive progress in recent years. I'd be interested in1528whether you'd commit to us to maintaining strong investments in1529Amtrak when we finally receive your full budget.1530    Secretary Duffy. So, listen, I take Amtrak as well. I ride1531the Northeast Corridor. I'll tell you this. Do I think we could1532do better? Yes. Could we be better? Yes, I think we could be1533better. It's faster than driving through the traffic when1534you're going up north. I've experienced that more recently.1535    So, again, I would love us to think through together, how1536can we make this better? How can we make it faster? I mean, the1537rest of the world has high speed rail. Why can't we think1538through a different way to do it? So, I'm committed to the idea1539that we want to be able to move people along the Northeast1540Corridor. We don't have enough room for people to all take1541cars. So, let's figure out a better way to do it. So, yeah, I'm1542committed to the idea that we're going to have great rail1543transportation.1544    We have Amtrak. Could there be ways that we could allow for1545other competition in with Amtrak on the rails? Possibly. But1546this is in your control. These are--so, I'm not trying to kill1547it. I'm trying to go, ``How can we make it better?''1548    Senator Coons. Thank you. These are complex questions.1549    Secretary Duffy. Very complex.1550    Senator Coons. And consultation with this committee will1551help sustain our national rail network.1552    Shipbuilding is an area where I suspect we have strong1553agreement. I recently visited Philly's Hanwha Shipyard, as did1554you. Senator McCormick and I have talked regularly about this.1555My community is just 20 to 30 minutes from that shipyard, and1556we'd like to contribute some of the folks who will work at the1557expanded Hanwha Shipyard.1558    I am the Ranking Appropriator on Defense. And I think the1559shot in the arm that MARAD has given to the shipyard by1560purchasing five DOT ships has been critically vital. Just if1561you would briefly speak to DOT's plans to invest in and1562reinvigorate our nation shipyards. This is one that is right on1563the edge of being able to come into the family of naval1564shipyards.1565    Secretary Duffy. Yeah. So, I love the President's vision. I1566couldn't share it. I think most people would agree that the1567vision of building ships again in America is important. Working1568through the components of how we fund it, how we are able to1569give a shot in the arm to the industry, because it's going to1570need support. And thinking through how we do that is what's1571happening right now.1572    I think all of us working together is going to be what's1573necessary to revitalize these ports. But, again, you look1574around the country and you see how we used to be a powerhouse,1575and they've just--many of them have been mothballed. Again,1576it's going to be a bipartisan effort for all this.1577    Senator Coons. Well, this is one that's back in production1578thanks to DOT. And I know Senator Collins has expressed a very1579strong interest in it. A number of members have maritime1580academies in their home states, and would like to see this1581shipyard also become productive. I look forward to working with1582you on that as well.1583    In the last two minutes, if I could, just a theme across a1584number of questions. You've frozen 3,000 Federal grants for1585review, and have released several hundred. Just to compare,1586there was a bipartisan effort at infrastructure investment1587under the last administration, and that produced a lot of new1588programs, more than 40 new programs, more than $300 billion in1589funding.1590    The DOT under the previous administration signed grant1591agreements for more than 3,300 projects. And under the first1592Trump Administration, because there wasn't a bipartisan1593commitment to dramatic increases in infrastructure, just 900.1594So, to say that, you know, they hadn't managed to execute1595enough agreements, and that's why you've got such a backlog,1596Biden's DOT increased its pace of grant agreement execution1597from 330 in its first year to 1,500. Its last year.1598    There's a reason that there was a dramatic increase in the1599volume of grant agreements. It's because we came together in a1600bipartisan way to significantly increase our infrastructure1601investment. To me, the grants that are being reviewed that were1602appropriated and authorized by Congress ought to be moving more1603quickly than they are. And I hope you will speed up that1604process going forward.1605    Secretary Duffy. So, I haven't frozen anything. So, if you1606have a grant agreement that money's flowing, that has not been1607stopped. And what we've done is asked to repurpose some of the1608requirements inside of those grant agreements. We're not going1609to enforce the climate or the social justice, but if you have a1610grant agreement and you have a project that's moving the money,1611the money's going on those projects, they haven't been stopped,1612they haven't been frozen.1613    And even on the announced projects that don't have grant1614agreements, we're moving again quickly. I'll show you that.1615I've got a month-by-month chart, I'll share it with you, if you1616want, and you can look at how we've done compared to the last1617administration. And you're not going to say we're wildly1618slower. We're actually doing pretty well. And I think it's1619going to speed up as well.1620    So, we're not trying to hold anything up. We're not trying1621to slow down or freeze. But I'm trying to pull out some things1622I think are going to cost you and your projects more money. And1623if we can build quicker and we can build with smarter1624requirements, I think that we have more money then to build1625more of your projects, which everyone wants more projects.1626    Senator Coons. I'd welcome a quick call about that outcome,1627which as you describe it, is something I would embrace and1628support. I'd like to see the projects move forward, obviously1629in my state. I think literally every Senator has said the same1630about that.1631    Secretary Duffy. And I'll send over the month-by-month1632analysis to your office.1633    Senator Coons. And forgive me, Tim and Sherri Lilley. We1634are sorry for your loss. And we are sorry for the ways in which1635air safety and tragic air accidents have impacted so many1636families, principally yours. And we appreciate not just your1637presence here, but what it means that you continue to advocate1638for FAA reform. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, and thank you both.1639    Senator Hyde-Smith. Senator Hoeven.1640    Senator Hoeven. Yes, I'd like to extend my condolences to1641the Lilley family as well, and all the families that have lost1642people in these accidents, and why it's so important that we1643take action to prevent that every way we can.1644    Mr. Secretary, thank you for being here today. And you1645mentioned this natural gas project in Louisiana, and that it1646hasn't been officially announced yet. And Kennedy's gone now,1647so, I'm wondering, is there any chance we could move that to1648North Dakota maybe?1649    Secretary Duffy. Yes. I don't think so.1650    Senator Hoeven. We've got energy up there1651    Secretary Duffy. A lot of energy.1652    Senator Hoeven. I know your staff's going to want to1653consider that carefully.1654    Secretary Duffy. I think that cake is baked. Senator1655Kennedy gets it.1656    Senator Hoeven. Well, it hadn't been out, so, you know,1657just checking.1658    Secretary Duffy. He's watching right now, though, I think.1659    Senator Hoeven. Yeah, I'm sure he is. Thanks for being1660here. Air traffic controllers we're down about 3,500 less than1661what we want. You talked about that. But really, we need to do1662more, not just at the academy, but outside the academy. And as1663you know, we have the largest flight training school at the1664University of North Dakota in the country. And do a lot of air1665traffic control training there as well. And the key is to train1666to the test, not to train to the academy. And that helps the1667academy from being a bottleneck.1668    And so, the Air Traffic Control Workforce Development Act1669that I've put forward with Jeanne Shaheen, as well as Senator1670Moran, and Senator Duckworth, allows schools that you certify,1671that FAA certifies, to train to the test to help you reduce1672that backlog and get these air traffic controllers trained. Are1673you supportive of that legislation?1674    Secretary Duffy. I'm supportive of expanding our capacity1675to get more young people trained up as air traffic controllers,1676getting them through training and, and being able to pass the1677test. And by the way, my brother-in-law went to UND, and went1678to flight school, and thoroughly enjoyed it. You guys have a1679great facility. And again, I think there's five in the country.1680I might be getting that number wrong.1681    I do think there's an opportunity for you all to do1682competitive grants where--because it's expensive, and you don't1683have a ton of kids coming through. So, the economics might be1684more challenging for the schools if there's a competitive grant1685to get really great equipment in some of these other places1686that would be probably helpful.1687    Senator Hoeven. And we'll include that. And you mentioned,1688you referenced it, but also for equipment in the tower that1689lets these air traffic controllers train on the job, that would1690enable you to move them around more, too, because you'd have1691some of that training equipment as well as retention bonuses1692and recruitment bonuses. So, it's all designed to help you get1693air traffic controllers faster.1694    We're going to do something in reconciliation, as you're1695aware, to kickstart at a very significant level, the equipment.1696This will help you with the actual air traffic controllers.1697    Secretary Duffy. I would welcome the help.1698    Senator Hoeven. Yeah. Thanks, Secretary. And then, speaking1699of the University of North Dakota, we also have up there, it1700was the first unmanned aviation UAS test site in the country,1701in part because it helped write that legislation, but mostly1702because we have such a tremendous school up there. And then at1703the Grand Forks Air Force Base, we have the Grand Sky1704Technology part.1705    The FAA has agreed to provide us with the unfiltered raw1706data feed, which we need to develop drone and counter-drone1707traffic in the NAS. Are you aware of that? And we still have1708some final details as far as the handoff, even though it's been1709formally agreed to. But this is going to enable us to continue1710all the work we're doing with drones, but also really develop1711counter-drone technology.1712    So, Senator Gillibrand talked about some of the legislative1713authorities. This is what actually enables you to detect and1714take down drones in the NAS. And we have 900 miles of border1715responsibility up there. And CBP co-located with all of this1716flying manned and unmanned aircraft. You need to come see it.1717Will you come out and see it, and will you support what we're1718doing there and help us finish getting this raw data feed so we1719can keep it moving?1720    Secretary Duffy. Yeah. So, I may not have known about this,1721but I think Secretary Burgum has mentioned this to me like 101722times. So, I'm well aware of what you're doing, and I believe--1723I just checked on this before the hearing. I believe that we're1724actually waiting for some information to come from North Dakota1725to the FAA, but we are committed.1726    This is going to be a great program. I think this is1727important. You're the right state to do it. So, you'll have--1728and again, if I can maybe coordinate with you after, to let you1729know what we need. But we are going to go forward quickly, and1730I'd love to come and see it in North Dakota.1731    Senator Hoeven. Great.1732    Secretary Duffy. After I go see Senator Schatz in Hawaii.1733    Senator Hoeven. Oh, sure. Okay. Well, that's all time of1734year. Time of the year is a big factor in that.1735    Secretary Duffy. Yeah, true. That's true.1736    Senator Hoeven. And we're not competing on the same. We1737want you in the summer, and he can have you in the winter.1738Appreciate your support on that. And I'll double-check, too, if1739there's something on our end.1740    Last thing is, we have a program that Tammy Baldwin,1741bipartisan, she and I were able to pass in the Reauthorization1742Act for FAA 2024. It's the Vets to Wings Act. We actually1743passed it. It was called the American Aviator Act. It allows1744some of the schools, on a pilot basis like ours, again, through17452028, to take for veterans when they leave the service and they1746want to go through flight training. The GI bill and the tuition1747assistance doesn't cover the full cost of the flight training.1748This program makes up that difference. So, it's a twofer. You1749get those veterans into their next career, and it helps us with1750the pilot shortage.1751    So, we want to actually expand that beyond just the pilot1752schools like ours that are doing it. Again, it's authorized1753through 2028, but it's something we want to work on as a1754permanent program to help our great vets. So, would like your1755input, help, and support on that?1756    Secretary Duffy. Yeah, I would love to work with you and1757learn more about the program.1758    Senator Hoeven. Okay. Again, thanks for the way you've1759grabbed this task with both hands, and you're going at it the1760right way, and your ability to communicate is tremendous. And1761it's very helpful in terms of getting this huge, huge, and very1762important project done. So, thank you for that.1763    Secretary Duffy. Thank you, Senator.1764    Senator Hyde-Smith. Senator Durbin.1765    Senator Durbin. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you, Mr.1766Secretary for being here. I want to say to the Lilley family,1767my sympathies go to you and your family for what you've gone1768through. And my gratitude goes to you for continuing the cause1769of air safety in memory of your loss.1770    Senator Duckworth, my colleague, being a helicopter pilot1771and knowing aviation inside and out, has briefed me on what1772happened that terrible evening. But I've flown that1773configuration a thousand times as a passenger. We've got to do1774something. And thank you for reminding us of our1775responsibility.1776    Secretary Duffy, when we met, we talked about Chicago and1777aspects of Illinois that I'm representing and concerned about.1778And Chicago, of course, is the rail hub of North America, more1779track rating, 80 and more directions than any other city. 251780percent of all freight trains, 50 percent of all intermodal1781trains go through that city. And we need help.1782    We talked about commitments that have been made, work that1783is being done. It's all good. But the next aspect of it is the1784continuation of a grant, a $93 million grant, which for some1785reason has been held up. So, I'll ask you to please have your1786staff put it on the list and try to figure out what we can do1787to get this moving forward. It is critical for efficient train1788operation in our country. Are you familiar with it?1789    Secretary Duffy. So, not specifically, Senator. I know that1790we have approved 13 grant agreements over the last several1791months for $270 million. When we came into office, there were179289 awards without grant agreements. So, we're moving through1793the backlog in your state, but the backlog is real in Illinois.1794    Senator Durbin. Got it.1795    Secretary Duffy. By the way, I was also--I'm aware there's1796a lot of infrastructure. Again, you have the Great Lakes, you1797have rail. You are a central hub, especially in Chicago. I know1798that in Wisconsin, we do appreciate your support of the1799Packers. We know you're a fan.1800    [Laughter.]1801    Senator Durbin. Take those words down.1802    Let me raise another issue. With all the time that I spend1803on airplanes, millions of miles, not as much as Brian Schatz,1804but close to it, you come to really appreciate not only the1805pilots, the professional crew, but certainly the flight1806attendants and the important work that they're engaged in.1807    Secretary Duffy. That's right.1808    Senator Durbin. And so, I found it kind of interesting1809recently when I observed that there is a growing trend on the1810planes that I fly on after the safety announcements, after we1811are all seat belts on, then the advertising of credit cards and1812frequent flyer programs begins.1813    And you wonder why, of all the things that they could talk1814about, and I wish most of the time they talked about none of1815it. Why would they pick that? Well, it's because sadly, some of1816the major airlines make more money on their credit cards and1817frequent flyer programs than on air operations. I didn't1818believe that until I saw it in print. It's a fact.1819    And you have to ask yourself, who is at least making sure1820that the passenger gets fair treatment in the frequent flyer1821programs. I've introduced legislation to do that. So, we could1822work together, I hope, and make certain that there's honesty in1823terms of dealing with these frequent flyer miles. They mean an1824awful lot to many people. Do you have any thoughts on that?1825    Secretary Duffy. I do, Senator. There's going to be a lot1826of things we agree on. That is one we will not agree on. When I1827was in the House, this was--I was on the opposite side of this1828issue than you were. I do think a lot of people in America1829aren't able to afford a trip. They oftentimes will use their1830points whether it's for a hotel or for an airline ticket. And I1831think that's a value for folks.1832    What I would support, though, is I think that if--and we're1833seeing this more and more--if there's an extra fee that you1834want to charge for using a credit card with merchants, I think1835that's appropriate. So, the consumer's paying for the cost of1836the card.1837    Senator Durbin. This is a separate issue. Senator Marshall1838and I are keeping this separate.1839    Secretary Duffy. You are. Okay.1840    Senator Durbin. What we're trying to do?1841    Secretary Duffy. What is this issue?1842    Senator Durbin. We're trying to make sure that when they1843say that you have so many points, and it equals so many1844benefits that you can use on that airline, that there be1845disclosures so the customer knows when they change the rules.1846    Secretary Duffy. I'd like to learn more about that. I'm1847very astute at--I think I have a credit card for all the1848airlines, and I know which ones are better than others and all1849hotels, too. I guess I would love to partner with you and look1850at what you're considering on the transparency side.1851    Senator Durbin. Just to make sure there's fairness to the1852passengers and disclosures, if there are changes in policy.1853    Secretary Duffy. I'm all about transparency and fairness.1854    Senator Durbin. On the other issue I've given up on you1855long ago. So, thank you.1856    [Laughter.]1857    Secretary Duffy. Thank you, Senator.1858    Senator Durbin. Thank you, Madam Chair.1859    Senator Hyde-Smith. Senator Boozman.1860    Senator Boozman. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for1861being here. I apologize for running back and forth. It's so1862busy here, and visiting with people in the hall. One of the1863people that I was visiting with is a mutual friend, Ambassador1864Mark Green.1865    Secretary Duffy. Good Wisconsinite.1866    Senator Boozman. He reminded me that he was so proud of you1867as being our Secretary of Transportation now, and yet your real1868claim to fame in his part of the country was being a world1869champion lumberjack. So, you're a renaissance guy.1870    Secretary Duffy. Very kind of him to mention. He was a1871wonderful congressman. A great ambassador.1872    Senator Boozman. Yeah. He's just a wonderful person. Let me1873just--and you don't have to respond to this, but I also want to1874express my thoughts also about how important the Essential Air1875Service is and the contract towers. I know you know that coming1876from the part of the country that you represented also, I know1877that you understand that the most recent census revealed that1878more than half of the counties across the nation saw a1879population decline. In Arkansas, 53 of our 75 counties1880experienced the same. About 53 percent nationwide.1881    While rural America's population is declining, its1882infrastructure remains just as vital in our interconnected1883communities. As urban and suburban projects are often given1884priority and rural bases are shrinking, how can we ensure that1885rural infrastructure gets the necessary support that it needs?1886    Secretary Duffy. Well, I think it's that you have to pay1887attention to it. You have to understand it. And it's having1888people from rural America fight for it. I think that's1889critical. And I come from rural America.1890    On the discretionary grants, and there's tools and help1891that's offered to smaller communities to try to access1892additional resources. But it goes to the point that this has1893become so complicated. What we're working on, and hopefully we1894can do it, is how can we make this process simpler? So, you1895just can't be a big institution that can apply and access1896competitive money. It's accessible for smaller communities1897where resources truly are just as needed.1898    Senator Boozman. And I'm glad you bring that up. That was1899really my next question. We see this a lot in USDA grants and1900things. We're in a situation now where these--you know, the1901ability to apply is so complex, so complicated. You're talking1902about spending thousands of dollars for grant writers, and1903again, the bigger communities can do that. That's simply1904something that we've got to concentrate on and across1905government, particularly I think with transportation, USDA,1906those kinds of grants, because it does make it very, very1907difficult for our smaller communities, really, for anybody in1908order to access those grants. And that's not a cost driver,1909that's a cost saver.1910    Secretary Duffy. And I don't mean to offend anybody, but I1911do think if you--with the expansion of high-speed Internet and1912after and during Covid, you saw a lot of people who want to1913move to rural America. They actually like it. It's a beautiful1914place. And so maybe we're going to see those numbers change,1915but with that is you need the infrastructure to go along with1916it. And again, I think it's been interesting to see how people1917have gone back to the rural part of this country.1918    Senator Boozman. There's been a lot of bipartisan support1919in Congress to modernize how we plan, build, and maintain1920infrastructure with emerging technologies. From advanced1921digital construction management systems to automated inspection1922tools like drones, remote sensing these innovations can help1923address workforce shortages, improve project delivery times,1924and enhance safety across our transportation network. How do1925you envision the department accelerating the adoption of1926digital technologies across all modes of transportation?1927    Secretary Duffy. I think that we are--sometimes we're1928thought of as, you know, hard hats and light reflecting vests.1929I think we're in the most innovative space in government,1930whether it is autonomous vehicles, and drones, and these1931eVOTLs, also with the technology that can be deployed in1932construction.1933    So, I am in favor of exploring all options that can reduce1934our costs, increase safety, and so, if you have ideas on things1935that I should be looking at, I'm happy to do that. But I do1936think we are at the cusp of a technological revolution in1937regard to the way that people move and the way that our1938products move in this country, which is, and again, I mean, we1939have to get it right.1940    You can't go too fast with some of this stuff, but you1941can't go too slow either. And so, getting the right pace on the1942rules and regulations is going to be critical for the1943department over the course of the next three and a half years.1944    Senator Boozman. Very good. Thank you. Appreciate you.1945    Secretary Duffy. Thank you.1946    Senator Hyde-Smith. Senator Schatz.1947    Senator Schatz. Thank you, Secretary. Thank you, Chair and1948Vice-chair. And to the Lilley family, thank you for your1949presence, and I'm sorry for your loss.1950    I want to follow-up on the 3,200 or so grants frozen. I1951understand that if the grant had--if the award has been made1952and the money has been obligated, that you're not freezing1953those dollars, you are pausing for review. I'm trying to get1954the terminology right. Post announcement, pre-obligation to1955kind of pull out those things that you considered to be1956extraneous to transportation. Am I characterizing that about1957right?1958    Secretary Duffy. Well, there's no freeze, but yes, we're1959talking.1960    Senator Schatz. Pausing for review.1961    Secretary Duffy. I'm not pausing with this. So, what I'm1962doing is, as I'm crafting the grant agreement, some of the1963language that was required in the NOFO, it's easy. We just1964don't put it in the grant agreement. So, it's not a pause, it's1965not a freeze, it's just we've taken the language out for the1966grant agreement.1967    Senator Schatz. Sure. Good news, bad news, right? You are1968characterizing this as easy, not terribly controversial. It's a1969new administration. You are within your rights to modify grant1970criteria, certainly before the money is obligated. I understand1971all that. The problem is time, right? We are about 4 months1972into this, or a little less than 4 months into this. And there1973are a bunch of things that are just like plainly, not climate,1974right? Evacuation routes, like hillside stabilization.1975    And so, my more basic question is, I know you care about1976metrics. I know your team is trying to metabolize all of these.1977What's the throughput capacity of the department to get these19783,200 grants reviewed, and obligated, and out? Is it 300 a1979month--I mean, excuse me, 300 a week? Do you think you're going1980to be done by June? What's the timeframe? Because it's a little1981bit of a black box.1982    This is information--this hearing's useful because it gives1983us some reassurance that, you know, they're not actually1984stopped. But I think it's fair for our state departments of1985transportation to kind of know it's going to be June before1986it's done. It's going to be next week. It could be later this1987year. Can you give us a sense for timing?1988    Secretary Duffy. So, I appreciate the question, and I think1989that's a really good question. So, I've told you we've done1990over 400 at this pace, which I'm proud of the pace that we have1991done thus far. It is not fast enough. If, again, this is going1992to take us multiple years at this pace to get it done. So, that1993is unacceptable. And I have countless meetings every week about1994how we can speed up the process to get more money out the door,1995more grant agreements done. So, I take your point, I'm proud of1996the work we've done so far, but the mission is to pick it up1997dramatically.1998    Senator Schatz. Yes. And at some point, you run into a1999potential, even if it's inadvertent, you run into an2000impoundment issue, right, you have to spend these dollars. And2001especially since the grant awards were given and the state2002departments of transportation, sometimes county departments of2003transportation, they have to spend money to gear up for2004contract management. You've got staging costs. So, this is not2005free to do. So, I just really do encourage you not just to pick2006up the pace as a sort of generic proposition, but to get back2007to members of the House and the Senate, on a bipartisan basis,2008to say this is where we're going to get and buy when.2009    So, speaking of which, I want to cover one other thing in2010the kind of I call it de-wokefying stuff.2011    Secretary Duffy. Can I ask on the impounding.2012    Senator Schatz. Sure.2013    Secretary Duffy. I'm not trying to impound anything.2014    Senator Schatz. I know you're not.2015    Secretary Duffy. But I'm trying--so if there's money that's2016about to run out, I'm trying to move that. I'm trying to2017elevate that and move that more quickly so you don't lose2018dollars.2019    Senator Schatz. Sure. And you and I had a brief2020conversation about bikes.2021    Secretary Duffy. Yes.2022    Senator Schatz. And then you had--the department issued2023additional guidance on bike infrastructure, and I just--this is2024like my--I don't even ride a bike particularly often, but I2025just think it's a little nuts that bikes have become some sort2026of climate priority. And therefore, people who are right of2027center are like, bikes are a climate thing.2028    Bicycles are bicycles. Everybody rides a bike. Kids ride2029bikes, families ride bikes. Every community, rural, red,2030purple, blue, you know, should have a safe way for people to2031ride bikes. Can we please take the question of utilizing bikes2032safely out of whatever fight we're going to have on a partisan2033basis about climate policy?2034    Secretary Duffy. So, I don't see bikes and climate2035together, but I like bikes, too. Bikes are wonderful. My kids2036ride them.2037    Senator Schatz. Okay. Can you review the additional sort of2038restrictions or scrutiny that some of these bike projects have2039gotten?2040    Secretary Duffy. So, one of my--so can I explain my concern2041about--some of the requirements in the last administration were2042are you adding, you know, bike lanes and walking paths to your2043construction project? That's what they wanted to see. And if2044there's some places across this country where we don't need2045bike lanes, why are we adding bike lanes onto what should be2046just roadways.2047    Senator Schatz. No one wants to ride a bike, right? But2048hold on, because I am out of time, and there's a vote, and some2049other members who want to talk. But the problem here, right, is2050everybody understands how this was done, which is you have so2051many thousands of contracts, people ``controlled'' for certain2052words. And so, some bike projects are just bike projects. Some2053projects are adding criteria to a rail, or pedestrian, or car2054project to say and also there's this new requirement, but it's2055such a blunt instrument that you're blocking stuff that think2056you and I, on a common-sense basis, would say, yes, we should2057do it.2058    I just have one more question, which I'll get out and take2059for the record. But again, on timeframes, and let's get some2060specificity. You got to do a bunch of things to upgrade the air2061traffic control system including and especially the2062telecommunications upgrades. If you could give us both some2063fidelity on costs, what you anticipate asking the Congress for,2064and also specifically the timeframe for resolving the Newark2065issues; whether that's weeks, or months, or whatever. I just2066think the traveling public needs to know exactly what that's2067going to be. Thank you.2068    Secretary Duffy. If you want to call, I'd be happy to talk2069more about bikes. I don't think we're that far away on bike and2070bike usage.2071    Senator Schatz. I don't think we are. I just think in the2072execution of some of these procedures that we're talking past2073each other2074    Secretary Duffy. Very well. Thank you.2075    Senator Hyde-Smith. Senator Van Hollen.2076    Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Secretary,2077welcome. And let me start by thanking you for reaching out to2078Governor Moore and Maryland early in your tenure to discuss2079Maryland infrastructure priorities, and especially your2080commitment to making sure that we rebuild the Key Bridge. I2081just want to thank you for that.2082    Secretary Duffy. I had a great conversation with the2083governor and his team that came to DOT, which was very nice of2084them.2085    Senator Van Hollen. It's a big project, and we are glad to2086have your support. Now, let me turn to an area of disagreement.2087On Monday, Maryland joined 19 other states to sue you in your2088capacity as Secretary of Transportation and DOT for what they2089describe as illegally withholding or threatening to withhold2090critical transportation funds to try to require those states to2091enforce Federal immigration law.2092    Mr. Secretary, I'm not--I don't want to get into the merits2093of this right now. I think the states will prevail. I think2094that's an appropriate use of your effort to leverage2095transportation funds. But my question is this does that2096decision, that conditionality, apply to previously awarded2097multi-year grants? In other words, there are grants that have2098been awarded that take place, they spend out over period of2099time. So, my question is, are you intending to retroactively2100apply that condition?2101    Secretary Duffy. No.2102    Senator Van Hollen. Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to get2103that clarification. Let me now also thank the Lilley family for2104all your efforts to make sure we prevent future tragedies like2105the one that took the life of your son.2106    And I do want to talk about the situation at DCA. Because I2107know that just yesterday in the Commerce Committee, we heard2108testimony from folks at FAA that there had been over, I think,210915,000 concerning incidents at DCA since October, 2021. And the2110response from the FAA official there was that they, ``missed2111something.'' That's scary. That's very scary.2112    And it's especially scary because we should have had that2113information, in my view, when the Congress considered the FAA2114reauthorization bill and there were a number of us at the time,2115it was mostly the Senators from this region, the two Virginia2116Senators, myself and then Senator Cardin, who were very2117concerned about adding additional airline routes.2118    Secretary Duffy. Slots, right?2119    Senator Van Hollen. Slots, yes. There were five slots,2120there were five pairs that were added. And I remember talking2121to then Secretary Buttigieg, who I think was probably in this2122room, sitting right there. And he expressed concern as well2123about additional pressures that would be put on the already2124most congested airport in the country if we added those slots.2125    This information was not available then, but there was lots2126of reason for concern. Those slots have since been added, I2127think early this year. Those additional slots were added to the2128most congested airport in the country. And I know you put2129safety first, right?2130    So, my question to you, Mr. Secretary, is will you work2131with us to reexamine that decision? Because the four of us2132voted against the entire FAA reauthorization at that time2133because of our concern about safety. And given all the2134information that's now available, I hope we will go back to see2135if that will aggravate an already very difficult problem.2136    Secretary Duffy. I think it would be appropriate for this2137body to have a conversation about what is appropriate and what2138is the capacity that DCA can handle. I think you all should2139discuss that.2140    Senator Van Hollen. No doubt.2141    Secretary Duffy. No doubt. By the way, there was 1500 you.2142    Senator Van Hollen. 15,000.2143    Secretary Duffy. But 85 were critically close in that time2144period. And so what--and I take your point on that. We're2145trying to at the FAA now say, what else should we see that2146we're not seeing? Because that should have been seen, that2147cross traffic should have been stopped. So, we're doing that2148work right now. We're using some AI tools. But also, I think2149it's my responsibility to talk about the air traffic control2150system and say that is a foreseeable danger. And that's why we2151have to have conversations about safety, and that's all of us2152doing our jobs together.2153    Senator Van Hollen. Yeah. No, I appreciate your efforts on2154that. And let me just say, I listened carefully to your answer2155with respect to the additional slots. And I agree it's a2156conversation we need to have here. But my question to you, Mr.2157Secretary, is given your important role, will you engage with2158us in that discussion and a determination about whether or not2159we now need to roll back some of those slots?2160    Secretary Duffy. I would welcome the opportunity to engage2161with all of you on that conversation. Thank you.2162    Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Mr. Secretary.2163    Secretary Duffy. Thank you, Senator.21642165                     ADDITIONAL COMMITTEE QUESTIONS21662167    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you. And if there are no further2168questions, Senators have seven days to submit any additional2169questions for the subcommittee's official hearing record. We2170request the DOT's responses within 30 days of that.2171                 Questions Submitted to Hon. Sean Duffy2172            Questions Submitted by Senator Cindy Hyde-Smith2173    Question. Mr. Secretary, many of my constituents are concerned2174about commercial truck drivers who lack English language proficiency.2175As a matter of safety, existing regulations state that commercial2176drivers must be able to speak, read, and write the English language2177sufficiently: to converse with the general public; to understand2178highway traffic signs and signals; to respond to official inquiries;2179and to make entries on reports and records. Unfortunately, previous2180Administrations have sought to minimize or ignore this law, which has2181likely contributed to unsafe roadway conditions for the traveling2182public. I applaud President Trump's recent Executive Order to enforce2183English proficiency requirements for commercial drivers, repeal2184previous regulations that diluted these standards, and strengthen2185enforcement of existing laws.2186    Mr. Secretary, how do you propose to enforce this existing common-2187sense law with the resources requested in your budget, how will that2188improve public safety?2189    Answer. Proficiency in English is a non-negotiable safety2190requirement for commercial drivers. Under 49 CFR Sec. 391.11(b)(2), a2191person is qualified to drive a commercial motor vehicle (CMV) in2192interstate commerce if they can read and speak the English language2193sufficiently to converse with the general public, to understand highway2194traffic signs and signals in the English language, to respond to2195official inquiries, and to make entries on reports and records. A2196driver who does not meet the requirements in 49 CFR Sec. 391.11(b)(2)2197is not qualified to operate a CMV. The failure to adequately enforce2198driver qualification standards poses serious safety concerns and2199increases the likelihood for a crash. As part of the driver2200qualification standard, the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration2201(FMCSA) believes a driver's failure to comply with the driver2202qualification requirements in 49 CFR Sec. 391.11(b)(2) constitutes a2203safety risk and that this risk was underestimated in previous agency2204enforcement discretion. Increased enforcement and the consequence of2205placing a driver out of service, instead of simply citing a driver for2206the violation, will lead to increased safety.2207    Acting on the President's Executive Order, I directed FMCSA to2208rescind the 2016 policy guidance that diminished ELP (English language2209proficiency) enforcement and issue new guidance to ensure the necessary2210enforcement of the ELP standard as prescribed by regulation in 492211C.F.R. 391.11(b)(2). Under the new guidance, CMV drivers who fail to2212comply with the FMCSA's longstanding ELP requirements will be placed2213out-of-service. The Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Alliance voted to2214incorporate violations of 49 C.F.R. Sec. 391.11(b)(2) into its out-of-2215service criteria beginning June 25, 2025. Therefore, as of June 25,22162025, ELP violations will once again be included in the out-of-service2217criteria-ensuring consistent, nationwide enforcement and reaffirming2218the Department's unwavering commitment to roadway safety. Our State2219partners, funded through the Motor Carrier Safety Assistance Program2220formula funding, will use part of their funding to enforce the2221requirements of 49 C.F.R. Sec. 391.11(b)(2) at roadside inspections to2222ensure uniform enforcement throughout the country.2223    Question. Mr. Secretary, as you know, the trucking industry has2224estimated that the United States needs more than 80,000 additional2225drivers to meet the current demand. Achieving that goal requires world-2226class commercial driving schools that properly train the workforce. The2227Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration is responsible for2228maintaining a registry of approved commercial driving schools. The2229purpose of the registry is simple: schools in good standing remain on2230the list while bad actors get removed. Unfortunately, I have heard from2231my constituents that the registry isn't doing its job, allowing2232unqualified schools to keep operating, misleading students, and2233compromising road safety.2234    How does the budget request support DOT efforts to effectively2235maintain the registry and remove bad actors?2236    Answer. The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration's (FMCSA)2237commitment is to ensure that only qualified and properly vetted2238training providers are listed on the Training Provider Registry (TPR)2239and are allowed to train commercial drivers. The FMCSA has made2240significant progress in strengthening oversight of the Entry Level2241Driver Training (ELDT) program, but recognizes that more work remains.2242    FMCSA is examining its complaint procedures to ensure consistency2243and reliability in addressing stakeholder concerns. The Agency is also2244streamlining the process for submitting concerns related to training2245providers and ensuring timely review and action on these complaints.2246    Approximately 75% of the training provider related complaints FMCSA2247receives involve training providers failing to meet State based2248licensure and registration requirements. The Agency has partnered with,2249and is actively engaged with States to proactively require training2250providers to register with a State, submit applicable filing fees, and2251take any necessary steps to comply with State based licensure and2252registration requirements.2253    To promote transparency and improve information sharing, FMCSA is2254updating its website to accurately reflect the number of providers2255currently under review or removed from the TPR due to noncompliance in2256a more timely manner. To ensure consistent oversight, FMCSA is2257allocating resources to support routine audits and investigations of2258training providers. In addition, FMCSA has drafted standard operating2259procedures to guide enforcement actions and ensure legal sufficiency.2260    All of these efforts are on track for completion by Fall 2025.2261    Question. Under the Biden Administration, the National Highway2262Traffic Safety Administration has taken requirements in the2263Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act and expanded them beyond the2264Congressional intent. An example of this is the significant emphasis2265being placed on equity and public participation and engagement in2266through the highway safety grant program. While it's important to2267involve communities in safety planning, the regulations established by2268the Biden Administration have gone well beyond statute and placed a2269significant burden on States. The requirements are diverting resources2270from the implementation of safety programs.2271    How will you work with the States to find ways to reduce2272administrative red tape so that more of the money intended for safety2273programs can be put to work improving safety on our roadways?2274    Answer. IIJA requires that State highway safety programs funded by2275NHTSA highway safety grants ``provide for a comprehensive, data-driven2276traffic safety program that results from meaningful public2277participation and engagement from affected communities, particularly2278those most significantly impacted by traffic crashes resulting in2279injuries and fatalities.'' 23 U.S.C. Sec. 402. NHTSA implemented the2280public participation and engagement requirement through notice and2281comment rulemaking and extensive outreach.2282    After 2 years of experience administering the grant program with2283these requirements and listening to feedback from some State grant2284recipients, NHTSA recognizes the need to align the public participation2285and engagement requirement with the varying resources and needs of the2286different State highway safety offices. NHTSA is in the process of2287considering ways to reduce administrative burden on States while2288ensuring that they meet the statutory requirement.2289    Question. Under the Biden Administration, the National Highway2290Traffic Safety Administration has taken requirements in the2291Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act and expanded them beyond the2292Congressional intent. An example of this is the regulatory requirements2293that were put in place that require law enforcement agencies that are2294partnering with States to conduct traffic enforcement, to conduct2295community collaboration efforts and collect demographic data on traffic2296stops. Burdensome regulations like these have diverted resources from2297the underlying safety mission and created roadblocks for law2298enforcement to conduct traffic enforcement to stop unsafe driving2299behavior.2300    How will you work to streamline the requirements to remove these2301barriers?2302    Answer. IIJA requires that State highway safety programs funded by2303NHTSA highway safety grants support ``data-driven traffic safety2304enforcement programs that foster effective community collaboration to2305increase public safety; and data collection and analysis to ensure2306transparency, identify disparities in traffic enforcement, and inform2307traffic enforcement policies, procedures, and activities.'' 23 U.S.C.2308Sec. 402. NHTSA implemented this requirement through notice and comment2309rulemaking. The agency does not prescribe specific activities to meet2310the evidence-based enforcement program requirements. States meet this2311statutory requirement by providing a ``description of the State's2312evidence-based enforcement program activities'' in the IIJA annual2313report. 23 C.F.R. Sec. 1300.35.2314    After receiving requests from States, NHTSA provided significant2315technical assistance and shared best practices from State and local law2316enforcement on potential ways to meet the requirements. NHTSA will2317continue to provide technical assistance and flexibility to States to2318implement this statutory requirement in a manner that best fits the2319resources and needs of the respective/individual States.23202321                                 ______23222323               Questions Submitted by Senator John Hoeven2324    Question. As you know, the FAA has awarded the Hector International2325Airport nearly $40 million for its Terminal Expansion Project through2326the Airport Infrastructure Grant (AIG) program. This past March was the232712th consecutive month of all-time high passenger activity at the2328airport. There is still much work to be done and another $31 million in2329Federal funding is needed to complete the project. With increasing2330demand for travel options created by continuous growth in the area,2331it's vital that North Dakotans are able to travel safely and2332efficiently throughout the country.2333    Will you work with us to advance this project?2334    Answer. The FAA will continue to work collaboratively with Hector2335International Airport to help prepare it for future funding2336opportunities, as appropriate.2337    Question. As I'm sure you'll agree, it is of critical importance to2338make sure pilots and air traffic controllers have access to the mental2339health services they need, both for their own well-being and to ensure2340the safety of our skies for the American public. According to a survey2341conducted by Pilot Mental Health Campaign, 12.6 percent of pilots met2342the depression threshold, 4.1 percent reported suicidal thoughts, 78.62343percent felt worried about seeking health care, and 56 percent2344exhibited some form of ``health care avoidant behavior.'' I will soon2345introduce legislation that would increase transparency, authorize funds2346to address the Federal Air Surgeon shortage and bring FAA regulations2347relating to mental health treatment and medication up to date to match2348current research and best practices.2349    Can I have your commitment to work with us to address this2350important issue?2351    Answer. The Department is committed to continuing to work with2352Congress to prioritize the mental health and well-being of pilots and2353air traffic controllers. The FAA currently provides resources to pilots2354and air traffic controllers to ensure their understanding of the2355requirements for obtaining a medical clearance or an airman medical2356certificate and offers appropriate care for mental health conditions.2357    In accordance with the requirements established in section 411 of2358the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024, the FAA has formed a Mental Health2359Task Force, which is actively exploring innovative ways to expand and2360update medical-related policy and procedures. In addition, the FAA2361strongly supports and advocates for Peer Support Networks in the2362aviation industry, and provides mental health training to peer support2363volunteers.2364    Question. Development of key infrastructure in Tribal and rural2365communities plays a key role in providing access to health care,2366medical supplies, economic development, and commerce. Department of2367Transportation (DOT) grants like Strengthening Mobility and2368Revolutionizing Transportation, or SMART, have an important role2369supporting innovation in these communities. The SMART program is2370currently funding joint research by the University of North Dakota and2371Nueta Hidatsa Sahnish College's MHA Nation Drone Project. Under the MHA2372Nation Drone Project, both schools were able to successfully complete a2373series of proof-of-concept flights transporting medical supplies across2374Lake Sakakawea between Elbowoods Memorial Health Center in New Town,2375N.D., and Twin Buttes, N.D. Typically, people living in New Town would2376have to make a nearly two-hour drive to the health center to receive2377medication; however, the drone flights successfully demonstrated that2378medication can be delivered to remote communities in about 25 minutes.2379In addition to technological infrastructure, DOT also funds critical2380traditional infrastructure like roads, bridges, and airports. In North2381Dakota, the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe is administering a DOT planning2382grant for a proposed bridge over the Missouri River and celebrating the2383expansion of the Standing Rock Airport in Fort Yates.2384    Can you discuss how the department is supporting these types of2385innovative and important infrastructure projects through the FY262386budget?2387    Answer. On July 17--18, 2025, the Director of the SMART Grants2388Program visited the MHA Nation for a demonstration of the Mandan,2389Hidatsa, and Arikara Nation (MHA) Drone Project, a community2390stakeholder meeting, and an educational Drone Camp with local students.2391The MHA Nation has been invited to the third annual SMART Grantee2392Summit, on July 30--31, 2025 in Washington, D.C. for technical2393assistance from USDOT subject matter experts and peer support from a2394cluster of grantees deploying similar technology. The FY26 budget will2395provide continued technical assistance to Stage One grantees, and an2396opportunity for them to apply for up to $15 million per project in2397SMART Stage Two full scale implementation grants.2398    Question. One of the FAA's most successful government/industry2399partnerships is the contract tower program. 265 smaller airports2400participate in this important air traffic safety program, including in2401Minot International Airport in North Dakota. These towers support2402Department of Defense flight training operations and military2403readiness, rural air service, general aviation, and flight schools all2404across the country. It's also important to note that contract towers2405account for approximately 30 percent of all tower operations in the2406Nation, and that about 70 percent of contract controllers are veterans.2407The program also continues to get high marks from the DOT Inspector2408General.2409    Will contract towers remain a high priority for the administration?2410    Answer. The Federal Contract Tower Program continues to be a high2411priority for the Administration. The FAA recognizes the critical role2412that contract towers play in ensuring the safety, efficiency, and2413continuity of air traffic operations across the National airspace2414system, particularly at smaller and regional airports like Minot2415International Airport. The FAA remains committed to maintaining and2416strengthening this successful government-industry partnership.2417    Question. Staffing shortages continue to be a challenge throughout2418the industry, including at contract towers.2419    What measures can DOT/FAA and the industry undertake2420collaboratively to address staffing challenges at these towers?2421    Answer. To address controller staffing challenges, including at2422contract towers, the FAA is actively working with industry partners and2423contract tower stakeholders to explore and implement targeted2424solutions. To expand the pipeline of qualified candidates, the FAA has2425increased and enhanced recruitment and outreach, particularly to2426veteran communities, and expanded our collaboration with educational2427institutions and aviation programs. We look forward to continued2428engagement with industry partners, educational institutions, and local2429communities to ensure the long-term sustainability and success of the2430contract tower program.24312432                                 ______24332434              Questions Submitted by Senator Patty Murray2435    Question. Secretary Duffy, in your written testimony you claim to2436have saved taxpayers $9.5 billion in President Trump's first 100 days.2437This Committee asked your staff for the details on these supposed2438savings more than two weeks ago, but has received no response. I'm2439deeply concerned by the lack of transparency and accountability on what2440you are cutting and how it is impacting the communities in our States.2441    Please provide the full details in writing to the Committee on what2442makes up the $9.5 billion in cuts?2443    Answer. The $9.5 billion is comprised of the projected future2444savings from termination of certain University Transportation Center2445Program Grants; savings from DOT assuming control of MTA's Penn Station2446Overhaul Project; reduced project scope of the Dock Bridge Project2447under the Federal State Partnership for Intercity Passenger Rail2448Program; and termination of a Corridor Identification and Development2449Program grant supporting the Texas High Speed Rail Corridor project,2450which on the low end was expected to require $10 to 20 billion in2451Federal investment over several years.2452    Question. Secretary Duffy, in your testimony you spoke of approving2453405 grants totaling $4.9 billion in President Trump's first 100 days. I2454understand that as part of these approvals your Department has re-2455evaluated each grant award announced under the previous Administration,2456and in some cases ``de-scoped'' the grant award, meaning you removed2457previously eligible activities that the recipient intended to use the2458funding for. If you are removing parts of a project, that leads me to2459assume you are also reducing the amount of funding a city, State,2460Tribe, or another entity was previously awarded. This Committee has2461asked your staff repeatedly for the details on the Department's ``de-2462scoping'', but again has received no response.2463    Please provide a list of all competitive grant awards that were2464announced under the prior Administration but not yet obligated by2465January 20, 2025 that includes the following information for each2466award:2467    --Modal administration,2468    --Competitive grant program,2469    --Project name,2470    --Recipient name,2471    --Amount originally awarded,2472    --Amount approved for obligation,2473    --If/how the scope of work has changed compared to the original2474            announced award, and2475    --Rationale for changing the scope of work.2476  --This detailed list should cover all competitive grants approved for2477        obligation by the Department between January 20, 2025 and the2478        date of receipt of this question.2479    Answer. Please visit this link for the latest DOT approved2480projects: https://www.transportation.gov/infrastructure-investment-and-2481jobs-act/dot-approved-projects-july-16-2025.2482    Question. Each year when the Committee writes our appropriations2483bill we re-examine the staffing needs at each modal administration. We2484work to understand the needs and to provide sufficient funding to2485support critical safety missions and the day-to-day operations of the2486Department through specific salaries and expenses directed in our2487appropriations bill. However, to do this, we need cooperation from the2488Department on current staffing levels, as well as transparency on the2489needs. While I was heartened to hear your response to my colleague that2490you would hire more staff if you find a need, I'm concerned we do not2491know that the gaps are as a result of two rounds of the deferred2492resignation program, firing probationary employees, and more. This2493Committee has asked your staff numerous times for staffing details and2494to date you have only provided extremely high-level figures that2495provide no insight into how it is affecting one office or another,2496headquarters, or regional and local offices.2497    Please provide the total number of people employed by the2498Department of Transportation as of the last pay period under the prior2499Administration and as of the date of receipt of this question. Please2500also break this total number of staff down by modal administration,2501office, headquarters, and regional/local offices.2502    Answer. See ``Attachment 1--DOT Staff Breakdown'' for a breakdown2503of DOT staff in Pay Period 3 of 2025, the last pay period under the2504last administration, and Pay Period 12, the most recent Pay Period2505prior to June 2.2506    Question. The FY 2025 Full-Year Continuing Appropriations and2507Extensions Act (Public Law 119-4) provides $280 million for the FAA's2508Research, Engineering, and Development (RED) account. Funds within the2509RED account are authorized to be eligible for research to reduce noise2510and emissions from aircraft, and improve the efficiency of engines.2511    Within the RED account, how much fund will you allocate for the2512FAA's Aviation Sustainability Center of Excellence on Sustainable2513Aviation Fuels (ASCENT) and the Center of Excellence for Joint Advanced2514Materials and Structures (JAMS)?2515    Answer. In FY 2025, the FAA plans to allocate $29.9 million for2516ASCENT. We are still in the process of finalizing the projects for2517JAMS, but we anticipate allocating funding in FY 2025 at similar levels2518to FY 2024, which was $11.85 million.2519    Question. Enforcement of pipeline safety rules has dropped to2520unprecedented lows under this Administration. Since January 20, 2025,2521according to PHMSA's Enforcement Transparency webpage, PHMSA has only2522initiated five cases against potential violators, which is a more than252390 percent drop from both the 91 cases PHMSA opened during the same2524period of time under the Biden Administration and the 68 cases PHMSA2525opened during the same period of time under the first Trump2526Administration. Meanwhile, the last 2 years have been the deadliest 2-2527year period for pipelines in nearly 15 years.2528    How does the Department explain the sudden drop in cases initiated2529by PHMSA?2530    Answer. The number and type of enforcement cases that PHMSA2531initiates during a particular period of time varies and depends on a2532variety of factors, including the findings made in previous inspections2533and investigations, the judgement of the Regional Directors and other2534staff responsible for evaluating the merits of a case and determining2535whether to initiate a proceeding, and the enforcement priorities of the2536current administration. PHMSA issued two high-profile enforcement2537actions during the time period referenced--a safety order to Sunoco2538L.P. in response to a jet fuel leak on a pipeline in Upper Makefield,2539Pennsylvania and a corrective action order to South Bow following a2540crude oil release on the Keystone Pipeline in Ransom County, North2541Dakota--demonstrating the Administration's commitment to ensuring the2542safety of our pipeline network. PHMSA also filed a civil action in2543Federal district court against Panhandle Eastern Pipe Line Company for2544alleged violations committed in connection with a fatal gas pipeline2545incident that occurred several years ago near Meade, Kansas.2546    Question. In addition, PHMSA recently announced long overdue2547updates to its policies and procedures for pipeline safety enforcement2548proceedings. Those updates include changes to the policy that PHMSA2549uses to calculate proposed civil penalties and the procedure that PHMSA2550follows in determining the agency records that should be included in2551the case file. PHMSA notes that the updates to the latter procedure2552respond directly to a bipartisan mandate that Congress included in the2553Protecting Our Infrastructure of Pipelines and Enhancing Safety (PIPES)2554Act of 2020, currently codified at 49 U.S.C. Sec. 60117(b)(1)(C). PHMSA2555has issued 20 new pipeline safety enforcement actions since adopting2556these critical due process changes and expects to issue more in the2557coming months.2558    On January 23, 2025, PHMSA's Notice of Proposed Rulemaking on2559requirements for carbon dioxide and hazardous liquid pipelines was2560withdrawn as a result of President Trump's Presidential Memorandum2561titled ``Regulatory Freeze Pending Review''. What is the Department's2562plan to reissue this proposed rulemaking?2563    Answer. In accordance with the Executive Order issued by the2564President on January 20, 2025, the proposed rule for carbon dioxide2565pipelines was withdrawn prior to publication and is currently under2566review. PHMSA will work to advance the Administration's regulatory2567priorities for pipeline safety as quickly as possible.2568    Question. On January 20, 2025, President Trump issued a2569Presidential Memorandum titled ``Regulatory Freeze Pending Review''2570which directed agencies to immediately withdraw rules that had been2571sent to the Office of the Federal Register but not published in the2572Federal Register and to consider postponing rules that had been2573published in the Federal Register or issued in any manner but had not2574taken effect.2575    Please list all DOT rulemakings impacted by this Presidential2576Memorandum, and their status as of the date of receipt of this2577question.2578    Answer. The following documents were sent to the Office of the2579Federal Register before January 20, 2025, but withdrawn prior to the2580publication:2581Federal Railroad Administration25822583  --A notice titled, ``Program Approval: Georgia Central Railway, L.P.2584        and Heart of Georgia Railroad, Inc. `` This document was2585        initially scheduled for publication on January 22, 2025. The2586        notice was revised and published on February 5, 2025 (90 Fed.2587        Reg. 9053).25882589  --A notice titled, ``Notice of Final Nonavailability Waiver for the2590        Alabama State Port Authority to Purchase Two Rubber-Tired2591        Gantry Cranes.'' This notice was scheduled for publication on2592        January 22, 2025. FRA published a substantively identical2593        notice on June 20, 2025.25942595National Highway Traffic Safety Administration25962597  --A notice and request for comments on a revision of a currently2598        approved information collection titled, ``Automated Driving2599        Systems 2.0: A Vision for Safety.'' This notice was initially2600        scheduled for publication on January 22, 2025. It was published2601        on February 20, 2025 (90 Fed. Reg. 10033).26022603  --A notification titled, ``Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards;2604        Plain Language and Small Business Impacts of Motor Vehicle2605        Safety; Section 610FRN--YEARS 1 THRU 7 2024-12.'' This2606        notification has not been published. The Department continues2607        to review its rulemakings for impacts to small businesses2608        pursuant to section 610 of the Regulatory Flexibility Act.26092610Federal Highway Administration26112612  --A notice extending a comment period titled, ``Asset Management2613        Plans; Management and Monitoring Systems--Notice of Extension2614        of Comment Period'' (RIN: 2125-AG00). A final rule was2615        published on May 30, 2025 (90 Fed. Reg. 22854).26162617Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration26182619  --A notice of proposed rulemaking titled, ``Unified Registration2620        System Enhancements and Updates'' (RIN 2126-AB56). This notice2621        has not been published. The Department is considering its next2622        action.26232624Federal Transit Administration26252626  --A notice of proposed rulemaking titled, ``Bus Testing'' (RIN 2132-2627        AB40). This notice has not been published. The Department is2628        considering its next action.26292630  --A notice of funding opportunity (NOFO) titled, ``Transportation2631        Equity Research.'' This NOFO has not been published. The2632        Department is considering its next action.26332634Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration26352636  --A final rule titled, ``Pipeline Safety: Leak Detection and Repair''2637        (RIN 2137-AF51). This final rule has not been published. The2638        Department is considering its next action.26392640  --A notice of proposed rulemaking titled, ``Pipeline Safety: Safety2641        of Carbon Dioxide and Hazardous Liquid Pipelines'' (RIN 2137-2642        AF60). This final rule has not been published. The Department2643        is considering its next action.26442645    The following documents were published in the Federal Register2646before January 20, 2025, with effective dates after January 25, 2025,2647but before March 20, 2025. The Presidential Memorandum directed DOT to2648consider extending those effective dates to March 20 and to exercise2649enforcement discretion until at least March 20.26502651FAA26522653  --A final rule title, ``Standard Instrument Approach Procedures, and2654        Takeoff Minimums and Obstacle Departure Procedures;2655        Miscellaneous Amendments'' (RIN 2120-AA84). In consideration of2656        its safety impacts, this rule took effect without delay on2657        February 20, 2025.26582659FHWA26602661  --A final rule titled, ``Buy America Requirements for Manufactured2662        Products'' (RIN 2125-AG13). The effective date of this rule was2663        extended until March 20, 2025, after which it took effect.26642665NHTSA26662667  --A final rule titled, ``Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards;2668        FMVSS No. 305a Electric-Powered Vehicles: Electric Powertrain2669        Integrity Global Technical Regulation No. 20 Incorporation by2670        Reference'' (RIN 2127-AM43). The effective date of this rule2671        was extended until March 20, 2025, after which it took effect.26722673  --A final rule titled, ``Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards;2674        Occupant Crash Protection, Seat Belt Reminder Systems, Controls2675        and Displays'' (RIN 2127-AL37). The effective date of this rule2676        was extended until March 20, 2025, after which it took effect.2677  --A final rule titled, ``Anthropomorphic Test Devices, HIII 5TH2678        Percentile Female Test Dummy; Incorporation by Reference'' (RIN2679        2127-AM13). The effective date of this rule was extended until2680        March 20, 2025, after which it took effect.26812682  --A final rule titled, ``Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards;2683        Child Restraint Systems, Child Restraint Anchorage Systems,2684        Incorporation by Reference'' (RIN 2127-AL20). Effective March2685        10, 2025.The effective date of this rule was extended until2686        March 20, 2025, after which it took effect.26872688FTA26892690  --``Third Party Contracting Guidance; Notice of Availability of Final2691        Circular and Response to Comments.'' The effective date of this2692        rule was extended until March 20, 2025, after which it took2693        effect.26942695                                 ______26962697           Questions Submitted by Senator Kirsten Gillibrand2698    Question. On May 2, 2025, the Department of Transportation2699terminated the 5-year UTC grant agreements for seven UTCs. This2700included UTCs led by the University of California, Davis, the City2701College of New York, the University of Southern California, New York2702University, San Jose State University, the University of New Orleans,2703and Johns Hopkins University. The Department has claimed these UTCs2704were terminated because the awards no longer effectuate the program2705goals or agency priorities.2706    Please provide a list of all research conducted by each of the2707seven UTCs, and identify which research activities were found to no2708longer effectuate the program goals or agency priorities.2709    Answer. Specific project lists were not used to determine2710inconsistency with DOT priorities. The universities' grant2711applications, which serve as the grants' Statements of Work (SOW), were2712used to determine that the grants were inconsistent with the priorities2713of the Department. Details of each grant's inconsistency with DOT2714priorities, as stated in each university's termination letter, are2715provided below.27162717University of California, Davis27182719    The National Center for Sustainable Transportation (NCST) addresses2720``accelerating reductions in greenhouse gas emissions while2721simultaneously enhancing transportation equity.'' NCST's objectives2722``to prioritize disadvantaged communities,'' ``reduce impacts2723associated with infrastructure...for disadvantaged populations,'' and2724``support a Transportation Equity and Environmental Justice Advisory2725Group'' are inconsistent the DOT's priority to cease promoting DEI2726initiatives that discriminate on the basis of race, national origin, or2727another protected characteristic.27282729City University of New York27302731    CUNY's language ``to empower economically disadvantaged2732populations, including minorities, women, veterans...by improving2733equity of opportunity in an unequal infrastructure labor market''2734directly conflicts with agency priorities by targeting specific groups2735on the basis of discriminatory criteria, for enhanced opportunity.2736Likewise, CUNY's ``model for Transforming Minority Doctoral Students2737into Academia ...to Increase Diversity of Faculty Across the2738University'' and multiple references to ``Equity'' (``Our work will2739address...Equity...,'' ``to promote equity and accessibility,'' and2740``equity-based project selection'') all prescribe race- or sex-specific2741initiatives. The SOW's cited work is inconsistent with DOT's2742priorities.27432744University of Southern California27452746    The Pacific Southwest Region (PSR) UTC promotes equitable access2747and furthers research themes regarding ``uneven transportation access2748across PSR's enormously diverse region, particularly among2749transportation-disadvantaged travelers and communities.'' PSRUTC's2750research priorities that ``deepen commitments to diversifying the2751transportation workforce; draw a more diverse pool of students; and2752focuses on Equity'' are inconsistent with DOT's priority to cease2753promoting DEI initiatives that discriminate on the basis of race,2754national origin, or another protected characteristic. Furthermore,2755PSRUTC's EV statement (``perspective on equity in the transition to2756electric vehicles'') and environmental justice themes (``addressing EJ2757problems in the goods movement system'') promote discriminatory2758consideration and ``green new deal'' principles that are inconsistent2759with DOT's priorities.27602761New York University27622763    NYU repeatedly commits to ``engag[ing] with the community of2764disadvantaged travelers,'' ``developing equity measures based on travel2765time by mode and cost,'' and ``Equity-Based ITS Project Selection.'' It2766also includes a ``Diversity and inclusion portal,'' mandatory diversity2767metrics, and plans to ``hold diversity and inclusion talks.'' The SOW's2768cited work is inconsistent with DOT's priorities. The Connected2769Communities for Smart Mobility Toward Accessible and Resilient2770Transportation for Equitable Reducing Congestion Center's (C2SMARTER)2771promise to ``investigate MBUF long-term equity impacts,'' ``adopt a2772quantitative equity screening component,'' and ``build interactive2773workshops on transportation equity'' is similarly inconsistent with2774this priority. Its EV work (``equity of access to electric vehicles and2775charging infrastructure'') promotes discriminatory considerations and2776``green new deal'' principles.27772778San Jose State University27792780    The SOW focuses on reducing the impact of transportation on climate2781change and on promoting climate justice and environmental justice, as2782well as activities to ensure that equity considerations are at the2783forefront in transportation policy making and planning. Examples of the2784SOW's Research Program include Vehicle Miles Traveled Mitigation2785Strategies: Implications for Equity and Sustainability Across the2786Urban-rural Continuum; Path to Economy-Wide Net Zero Emissions by 2020;2787and Climate Justice & Environmental Justice. These examples are2788inconsistent with DOT's priorities.27892790University of New Orleans27912792    The Center for Equitable Transit-Oriented Communities' (CETOC)2793stated mission, per the SOW, ``is to cultivate transit-centered,2794equitable, and resilient communities....'' The Extreme Heat Exposure2795study assesses transit riders' climate vulnerability, which conflicts2796with the agency's priority of maximizing traditional forms of energy2797and natural resources to the greatest extent possible. Similarly2798inconsistent with DOT's priorities is the statement in the SOW that2799CETOC will educate students and the workforce in transportation ``with2800the climate benefits of transit-oriented and multimodal transportation2801systems.''28022803The Johns Hopkins University28042805    The SOW's strong focus on climate change mitigation,2806electrification, greenhouse gas (GHG) reduction strategies, and2807``making climate change the center of transportation decisions'' is2808inconsistent with DOT's priority to promote traditional forms of energy2809and natural resources. For example, the SOW promotes the development of2810solar-powered vehicles, lithium-sulfur batteries, GHG emission2811reduction strategies, and autonomous delivery systems intended to2812reduce or replace emissions from traditional trucking operations. In2813addition, the SOW places repeated emphasis on diversity, equity, and2814inclusion (DEI), including targeted support for minority-serving2815institutions and underrepresented student populations, which is2816inconsistent DOT's priority to cease initiatives that discriminate on2817the basis of race, national origin, or another protected2818characteristic. For instance, the SOW States that ``Every CST2819leadership and educational program will include active partnerships2820with our minority institution members and prioritize underrepresented2821students and transportation workforce,'' and further notes that2822``Scholarships, fellowships, and mentorships are reserved for2823underrepresented students,'' with several K-12 outreach initiatives2824(e.g., the COMTO Minority Initiative and the Transportation YOU Summit)2825aimed exclusively at minority students.2826    Question. What does the Department intend to do with the remaining2827funds for these seven UTCs?2828    Answer. The Department intends to recompete and reissue the2829remaining funding.2830    Question. Will these seven UTCs be given the opportunity to re-2831apply under a new NOFO?2832    Answer. Yes, these seven UTCs will have the opportunity to re-apply2833under the new NOFO.2834    Question. The Department recently released an Air Traffic Control2835modernization plan, which is particularly important for the congested2836airspace around JFK, LaGuardia, and Newark.2837  --How much funding are you requesting for this Modernization Plan?2838  --Why was the Modernization Plan not included in the FY 2026 skinny2839        budget?2840  --What is the FAA doing to improve the telecommunications2841        infrastructure at these airports which has caused tremendous2842        delays in recent weeks?2843  --What other specific improvements does the Air Traffic Control2844        Modernization Plan envision to reduce flight cancellations and2845        delays for New Yorkers?2846    Answer. The FAA is collaborating with industry to develop2847innovative ideas, new technologies, and new procurement strategies to2848expedite the building of a brand new, state of-the-art air traffic2849control system. As a first step, the FAA is seeking information about2850how best to implement this new air traffic system. On June 3, 2025, the2851agency issued a Request for Information for an integrator to play a key2852role in managing this effort, including acquiring capabilities, and2853deploying the new technologies. The FAA looks forward to working with2854the Congress to secure the funding needed to execute the2855Administration's vision for building the air traffic system of the2856future.2857    In the near term, FAA is actively modernizing telecommunications2858infrastructure at major New York-area airports to address recent2859delays. This includes replacing outdated copper lines with fiber optics2860and installing a new fiber optic cable between Philadelphia and New2861York to improve controller-pilot communications.2862    The FAA will leverage new technologies like satellite-based2863tracking, digital communications, and real-time surface management to2864reduce delays and cancellations at New York's congested airports. These2865upgrades, along with airspace redesign and improved infrastructure, aim2866to enhance efficiency, safety, and reliability for travelers.2867    Question. On May 20, 2025, the FAA issued an interim order reducing2868flight arrivals and departures at Newark Liberty International Airport2869(EWR). The FAA proposed a limit of 28 arrivals and 28 departures per2870hour (total 56 operations per hour) during the ongoing construction2871period. The construction period is defined as the daily closure of2872Runway 4L/22R until June 15, 2025, and weekends from September 1, 2025,2873through December 31, 2025 from Friday at 11:00 p.m. through 5:00 a.m.2874on Sunday. Outside of the construction period, through the end of2875Summer 2025 scheduling season ending October 25, 2025, FAA proposes2876limit of 34 arrivals and 34 departures per hour (total 68 operations2877per hour).2878    What information or analysis did the FAA use to determine the limit2879of 56 total operations per hour during the construction period and 682880total operations per hour outside of the construction period?2881    Answer. The FAA established the rates of 28 arrivals/departures2882during construction, and 34 arrivals/departures after runway2883construction is completed, using prior operational experience with2884single runway configurations at EWR. The FAA recognizes that airport2885construction, runway/taxiway closures, weather (wind, IFR conditions,2886etc.), and staffing dictates the number of sectors that can be open at2887one time. To safely manage aircraft in and out of EWR and surrounding2888airports, arrival rates were modified based on the number of sectors2889that could be opened, taking into consideration critical controller2890training needs. Rates are dynamic based on runway configurations and2891daily weather and staffing constraints.2892    Question. What stakeholders did the FAA speak with during the delay2893reduction meetings?2894    Answer. The FAA met with key stakeholders including Alaska2895Airlines, American Airlines, Delta Air Lines, JetBlue, Spirit Airlines,2896United Airlines, and Allegiant Air, and the Port Authority of New York2897and New Jersey.2898    Question. Will you commit to providing the House and Senate2899Committees on Appropriations monthly briefings on the impact of these2900delay reductions on flight cancellations and delays as well as level of2901service and number of communities served by flights to EWR?2902    Answer. The FAA will brief the House and Senate Committees on2903Appropriations upon request.2904    Question. The FY 2026 skinny budget makes no mention of funding for2905Amtrak, yet Amtrak funding has been a priority for members on both2906sides of the aisle. In New York, the Northeast Corridor and our State-2907Supported Routes are extremely important.2908    Will you support the funding levels necessary to ensure Amtrak can2909operate all existing service lines on both the Northeast Corridor and2910National Network and not cut any service?2911    In response to my colleague's earlier question on Amtrak, you2912contemplated how we could make the Northeast Corridor ``faster'' and2913pointed out that ``the rest of the world has high-speed rail''. In2914order to increase the speed of trains along the Northeast Corridor,2915significant investments in replacing infrastructure are required along2916with coordination between Amtrak, DOT, States, and commuter rail lines2917that also operate on the track. This work is underway thanks to the2918historic rail investments provided by Congress in the Bipartisan2919Infrastructure Law. Will you commit to DOT continuing the investments2920and coordinated support necessary to bring faster, more reliant Amtrak2921service to the Northeast Corridor?2922    Answer. The FY 2026 President's Budget maintains Amtrak's annual2923grant funding at the $2.4 billion level appropriated in FY 2024 and FY29242025 to cover Amtrak's base operating, capital, and debt service2925requirements. These funds will (1) sustain the operations of the2926Northeast Corridor, State-Supported, and Long Distance services; (2)2927enable Amtrak to fulfill its ongoing maintenance and capital renewal2928programs; and (3) support the Department's oversight efforts to drive2929Amtrak ridership and revenue growth, contain operating costs, and2930deliver capital projects more efficiently.2931    The FY 2026 President's Budget also supports the final year of2932advance appropriations provided by the Infrastructure Investment and2933Jobs Act (IIJA). To date, these funds are advancing more than $222934billion awarded for projects on the Northeast Corridor (NEC) to reduce2935the corridor's state-of-good-repair backlog, replace or rehabilitate2936the 15 major bridges and tunnels that are each over 100 years old and2937cause significant delays, and modernize Amtrak's rolling stock and2938facilities. The Trump Administration is working to ensure that taxpayer2939dollars are spent on only the most meritorious projects that enhance2940the transportation system, improve safety, and lower costs to consumers2941and the traveling public.2942    Question. Building infrastructure in America already costs more2943than any other country. I am concerned by President Trump's reckless2944tariff policies and the impact it will have on construction materials2945and parts, which will only make this problem worse.2946     Mr. Secretary, will the Administration's tariff policy make2947transportation projects more expensive or less expensive?2948    Answer. The Department expects that the tariffs will have a minimal2949impact on the cost of transportation projects. Transportation projects2950that receive Federal funding and include Buy American provisions2951already rely on American-made steel and aluminum rather than imported2952products, and therefore would not be directly impacted by the tariffs.2953Estimates of the effect of earlier tariffs showed an increase in steel2954prices of just 2.4 percent between 2018 and 2021, and recent steel2955prices in the U.S. have been below 2021 levels.2956    Question. I am glad to see you rightly focused on air traffic2957controller hiring, and I am optimistic the improvements to the training2958academy will help flight delays in New York. However, hundreds of air2959traffic controllers are raising red flags about a provision in the2960House reconciliation bill, which could force them to retire early.2961House Republicans have voted to gut the supplemental annuity in the2962Federal Employees Retirement System for air traffic controllers who are2963eligible to retire but cannot collect Social Security. Controllers are2964already overstressed and they shouldn't have to worry about losing out2965on their pensions.2966    Mr. Secretary, will you work to defeat this ill-conceived proposal2967to eliminate the supplemental annuity for air traffic controllers?2968    Answer. The Department is supportive of any measures to recruit and2969retain air traffic controllers, particularly as we make further2970progress on addressing the controller shortage. Recently, we provided2971an incentive package to increase retention of experienced controllers2972in the field. The FAA offered controllers who are eligible for early2973retirement but remain on the job as part of the controller workforce a2974lump sum payment of 20% of their basic pay for each year they continue2975to work. As we continue to improve controller staffing levels, the2976Department is committed to working with Congress on any legislative2977proposals that may impact the recruitment and retention of air traffic2978controllers.2979    Question. According to the DOGE website, the Department has2980terminated or cancelled at least 26 leases for office space across 202981States and Puerto Rico that was used by the Federal Highway2982Administration, Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, Federal2983Transit Administration, Federal Railroad Administration, Maritime2984Administration, and Pipelines and Hazardous Safety Administration.2985  --Please provide a detailed list of all leases that have been2986        terminated or cancelled by the Department between January 20,2987        2025 and the date of receipt of this question. This list should2988        include:2989    --the modal administration;2990    --the location (including address) of the leased building or office2991            space;2992    --the date on which the existing lease was to expire prior to the2993            termination or cancellation;2994    --the date on which the existing lease will end as a result of the2995            termination or cancellation (i.e. when it will no longer be2996            used by the Department);2997    --the amount of any early termination or cancellation fees;2998    --the number of staff whose duty station was the leased building or2999            office space as of January 20, 2025;3000    --where the staff whose duty station was the leased building or3001            office space will report to following the termination or3002            cancellation;3003    --and whether the Department will consolidate or co-locate the3004            staff whose duty station was the leased building or office3005            space in building or office space currently leased or owned3006            by other modal administrations.3007    Answer. See ``Attachment 2--Leases'' for the requested information3008on leases. Currently, FHWA, FMCSA, FRA, FTA, MARAD, and PHMSA are the3009modes impacted by GSA action to exercise the soft-term termination. GSA3010rescinded some leases impacted by the soft-term lease termination, and3011FAA and OIG are no longer impacted. DOT is identifying alternate3012locations that are within 50-miles of the facilities impacted by GSA's3013soft-term termination action. Currently, we are still evaluating these3014alternate locations to verify capacity and existing program functions3015that are performed at these locations.3016    In addition, DOT has submitted space requirements of these impacted3017facilities to GSA's space match program. DOT, with the support of GSA,3018is looking at options to relocate staff to GSA identified locations3019that have an excess of space.3020    Note that the impacted locations are under the control and custody3021of GSA, and DOT is an occupant. GSA has rescinded some of the leases it3022intended to terminate. GSA would have better information on why some3023leases have been rescinded and why some leases continue with the soft-3024term termination action, as well as potential monetary benefits.3025    Question. According to the DOGE website, the Department has3026terminated or cancelled countless contracts. In response to previous3027inquiries from this Committee, your staff shared the following on March30284, 2025: ``DOT is reviewing existing contracts to identify3029opportunities for achieving efficiencies and ensuring that spending is3030alignment with Administration priorities.''3031    Please provide a detailed list of all contracts that have been3032terminated or cancelled by the Department between January 20, 2025 and3033the date of receipt of this question. This list should include the3034modal administration, source of funding for the contract, the purpose3035of the contract, and the rationale for why the contract was no longer3036necessary.3037    Answer. See ``Attachment 3--Contracts'' for the requested3038information on contracts.3039    Question. Please provide a list of all advisory committees, panels,3040task forces, and commissions that were funded and operational in fiscal3041year 2024.3042    Indicate those that are mandated by law and those that are3043discretionary; the funding level of each; and the expiration date of3044the most recent charter.3045    Also list each advisory committee, panel, task force, and3046commission that have been terminated or cancelled by the Department3047between January 20, 2025 and the date of receipt of this question, as3048well as those the Department proposes to operate in fiscal year 2026,3049with the proposed budget for each.3050    Answer. See ``Attachment 4--Advisory Committees'' for the requested3051information on Advisory Committees.3052    Question. Please provide an update on any plans or planning the3053Department has to reorganize the Department or its modal3054administrations.3055    Answer. The FY 2026 Budget proposes consolidation of common support3056services across DOT Operating Administrations into OST. These functions3057include Procurement, Human Resources (HR), Information Technology (IT),3058Civil Rights, Public Affairs, and Governmental Affairs. The proposal3059assumes all modal IT spending, including commodity and program3060spending, will be consolidated under OST. The consolidation excludes3061the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the Office of Inspector3062General, and some functions of the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Seaway3063Corporation (GLS).3064    Question. Please provide a list of all political and Presidential3065appointees employed by the Department as of the date of receipt of this3066question.3067    This list should include the name and title for each political and3068Presidential appointee and the modal administration in which such staff3069is employed.3070    If the total number is less than the 125 political and Presidential3071appointees allowed under section 183 of the Transportation, Housing and3072Urban Development, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 20243073(Public Law 118-42), which remains in effect under the Further3074Continuing Appropriations Act, 2025 (Public Law 118-158), please3075provide the total number of political and Presidential appointees3076expected by September 30, 2025 based upon vacancies, hiring plans,3077pending appointments by the President, and pending confirmations by the3078U.S. Senate.3079    Answer. See ``Attachment 5--Noncareer Appointees'' for the3080requested information. At this time, the Department expects 1103081appointees onboard by September 30, 2025.30823083                                 ______30843085                Questions Submitted by Senator Jack Reed3086    Question. The tragic collision at National Airport on January 29th3087caused the death of 67 people, including two Rhode Islanders, Christine3088Lane and her son, Spencer. I've met with Doug Lane, Christine's husband3089and Spencer's dad. I've also met with Tim and Sherri Lilley, whose son3090Sam was killed in the collision. Mr. Lane and the Lilley family have3091joined the families of other American Eagle Flight 5342 passengers to3092an advocate for safety reforms following this tragedy. I know you've3093also spent time meeting with these families and heard their stories.3094    One of the items that Mr. Lane and this group of families are3095calling for is an independent review of operations at National Airport.3096    Have you taken steps to initiate this a review?3097    Answer. The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), an3098independent Federal agency, continues to investigate the causal and3099contributing factors of the tragic accident at DCA, including the3100airport operations. Furthermore, in early June, the Department3101announced its support for an independent review by the DOT Inspector3102General of airspace operations and safety oversight in the National3103Capital Region.3104    In addition to supporting the NTSB investigation, the FAA initiated3105several safety reviews of the operations at DCA and has already3106implemented a comprehensive series of safety measures to enhance3107aviation safety in the National Capital Region, including:3108  --Permanently restricted mixed traffic in the immediate vicinity of3109        the airport3110  --Rescinded the authority to operate without broadcasting an ADS-B3111        Out signal in the National Capital Region and Washington D.C.,3112        with exceptions limited to active national security missions,3113        continuity operations, and presidential transport3114  --Added lateral widths to the charted helicopter routes3115  --Eliminated the use of visual separation within 5 miles of DCA3116  --Increased the number of certified professional controllers at DCA3117        tower from 28 to 303118  --Increased the number of operational supervisors at DCA tower from3119        six to eight3120  --Updated helicopter routes to ensure helicopters have proper3121        procedural radar separation from other aircraft in accordance3122        with the NTSB's recommendations31233124                                 ______31253126              Questions Submitted by Senator Brian Schatz3127    Question. You published a plan to modernize our Nation's air3128traffic control (ATC) system.3129    Please provide detailed requests for funding required to implement3130your plan over the project's proposed time frame.3131    Answer. The FAA is collaborating with industry to develop3132innovative ideas, new technologies, and new procurement strategies to3133expedite the building of a brand new, state of-the-art air traffic3134control system. As a first step, the FAA is seeking information about3135how best to implement this new air traffic system. On June 3, 2025, the3136agency issued a Request for Information for an integrator to play a key3137role in managing this effort, including acquiring capabilities, and3138deploying the new technologies. The FAA looks forward to working with3139the Congress to secure the funding needed to execute the3140Administration's vision for building the air traffic system of the3141future.3142    Question. President Trump stated that the entire ATC modernization3143project will be executed under ``one big, beautiful contract''. Your3144modernization plan calls for improvements to telecommunications3145systems, air traffic management software, tower facilities, and much3146more. These diverse upgrades are not best served by one contract.3147    Do you intend to execute a single contract for this modernization3148project? Do you commit to executing a fair, open, and ethical bid3149process for the contracts issued in implementing this modernization3150project?3151    Answer. On June 3, 2025, the agency issued a Request for3152Information for an integrator to play a key role in managing this3153effort, including acquiring capabilities, and deploying the new3154technologies. The FAA will work collaboratively with the integrator to3155develop the overall acquisition strategy, systems modernization, and3156execution of the work. The FAA is committed to executing a fair, open,3157and ethical bid process for any contracts issued.3158    Question. Over 4,000 DOT employees accepted deferred resignation3159program offers and you have stated intent to execute a mass layoff3160later this month. In your appearance before the Senate Appropriations3161subcommittee on Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, you3162stated that the pace of executing grant agreements must quicken.3163    How do you plan to accomplish this while simultaneously cutting3164department capacity?3165    Answer. In the near term, the Department stood up a Grants Review3166Task Force that is prioritizing the clearance of the unprecedented3167backlog of unobligated selections. Moving forward as part of3168Departmental efforts to improve efficiency, DOT is prioritizing work to3169unify competitive grants processes and systems. This initiative will3170identify opportunities to improve and expedite the execution of3171competitive grant agreements.3172    Question. Deputy Secretary Bradbury made a personal commitment in3173his confirmation hearing to maintain the Office of Tribal Government3174Affairs at DOT, which is the central body responsible for fostering3175government-to-government relations between the agency and Tribes and3176supports Tribal self-governance. It was funded at $1.53 million in3177FY24.3178    Will the President's Budget Request maintain and fund this office3179at DOT?3180    Answer. The funding levels for the Office of Tribal Government3181Affairs in the President's Budget for FY 2026 are commensurate with the3182FY 2024 levels.3183    Question. Tribal governments rely heavily on consistent and3184predictable transportation funding, particularly from the Tribal3185Transportation Program and the Rural and Tribal Assistance Pilot3186Program.3187    Can you commit today that the Department will not reduce or3188redirect funding for Tribal transportation without prior Tribal3189consultation, and can you detail how your Department intends to protect3190Tribal transportation programs in your FY26 budget request?3191    Answer. The Rural and Tribal Assistance Pilot Program received3192limited funding through the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act3193(IIJA) and subsequently obtained funding in the FY 2024 Consolidated3194Appropriations and the Full Year Continuing Resolution for FY 2025.3195This funding was not part of prior Budget proposals but was3196appropriated by Congress. If Congress decides to continue funding this3197program, the Department will continue to implement.3198    Question. Executive Order 13175 and the U.S. Department of3199Transportation's own Tribal Consultation Plan under Departmental Order32005301.1 require that your agency engage in meaningful consultation with3201Tribal Nations before implementing policies or actions that have direct3202effects on Tribes.3203    Did you comply with DOT's Order 5301.1 before implementing3204reorganization efforts?3205    Answer. The Department accepted all meeting requests based on DOT3206Order 5301.1. As such, the Office of Tribal Government Affairs has met3207with all Tribes that requested meetings and has facilitated all3208incoming questions.3209    Will you commit to pausing any programmatic changes that could3210affect Tribes until full consultation is completed?3211    Answer. Currently there are no programmatic changes affecting the3212Office of Tribal Government Affairs.3213    Question. Successful implementation of the Tribal Transportation3214Self-Governance Program depends on close coordination with the Bureau3215of Indian Affairs and Tribes. Under recent reorganization efforts and3216funding reductions, Tribes are concerned about negative impacts to this3217program and their ability to secure funding agreements and technical3218support.3219    Will you commit to working with this me to implement the Self-3220Governance Program as Congress intended to avoid service disruptions to3221Tribes?3222    Answer. Yes. As challenges arise, please have your staff contact3223Deputy Assistant Secretary for Tribal Government Affairs, James A.3224Crawford, at james.crawford@dot.gov.3225    Will you commit to expanding this program to support Tribal self-3226governance at DOT?3227    Answer. The Department's Tribal Transportation Self Governance3228Program (TTSGP) is expanding, with an increasing number of Tribes3229participating in the program.32303231                                 ______32323233            Questions Submitted by Senator Chris Van Hollen3234    Question. Congress will be putting together a new surface3235reauthorization bill over the next year. I have several priorities for3236the bill including the Sarah Debbink Langenkamp Active Transportation3237Safety Act. Sarah was a constituent of mine, and she was killed while3238riding her bicycle in Bethesda. This is a bipartisan bill that I3239introduced with Senators Baldwin, Hagerty and Johnson. The bill makes3240it easier for States and local governments to use Highway Safety3241Improvement program dollars as a local match for safe bicycling and3242pedestrian infrastructure.3243    Will you support the inclusion of this legislation in the next3244surface reauthorization bill and once passed, will you commit to3245implementing the requirements?3246    Answer. Safety is the Department's number one priority. DOT will3247work with Congress as it considers ideas, including this act, for the3248next reauthorization bill. If this legislation is enacted into law, the3249Department will implement its requirements.3250    Question. Earlier this month you terminated grants for seven3251University Transportation Centers over concerns related to advancing a3252so-called ``woke agenda.''3253    These grants required a dollar-for-dollar match, meaning the3254universities made significant financial and institutional commitments3255based on the promise of a 5-year Federal partnership. I'm concerned not3256just about the termination itself, but about how it was handled, the3257justification provided, and what this says about the Federal3258Government's willingness to honor its commitments.3259    Given that some of the universities have already revised their work3260plans and others have expressed a willingness to do so, can you commit3261today to working with these institutions to reverse the terminations3262and instead pursue a path that allows these UTCs to fulfill their3263mission under revised, mutually agreeable terms?3264    Answer. U.S. DOT does not intend to reverse the terminations, nor3265to rescope the terminated grants. The Department plans to recompete the3266UTC grants to support research into advanced transportation3267technologies that enhance American competitiveness and innovation.3268Importantly, the universities whose grants were terminated will be3269eligible to participate in the re-competition process, without regard3270to the termination action.3271    Question. On March 12, 2025 it was reported that one of your modal3272agencies, the Federal Railroad Administration, has been meeting with3273representatives from Elon Musk's Boring Company about doing work on the3274Frederick Douglass Tunnel Amtrak project in Baltimore.3275    This appears to be another example of a clear conflict of interest3276between the President, his benefactors and the American taxpayers.3277    In the interests of transparency, please tell me who else the FRA3278has been ``consulting with'' ahead of awarding a new contract for the3279project?3280    Do any of the other firms have a direct line to the President?3281    Are any others owned by the same person who already has several3282billion dollars in other Federal contracts? ($38 billion as of February32832025)3284    Answer. In November 2023, the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA)3285awarded more than $4.7 billion in funding under the Federal-State3286Partnership for Intercity Passenger Rail program to Amtrak to replace3287the Baltimore and Potomac (B&P) Tunnel. The tunnel was built in 1873,3288is one of the oldest structures on the Northeast Corridor (NEC) and3289serves as a bottleneck for both Amtrak and MARC commuter trains.3290However, cost estimates under the project continue to balloon, with3291Amtrak claiming the project would now cost more than $8.5 billion when3292the Trump Administration began in January.3293    The Department of Transportation is committed to protecting3294taxpayer dollars and delivering major capital projects on-budget and3295on-schedule. Recognizing the escalating costs for the B&P Tunnel, the3296Department has met with several stakeholders to seek input on3297innovative approaches to reduce costs and more efficiently deliver the3298B&P Tunnel project. This includes Amtrak, the Maryland Department of3299Transportation, the Boring Company, DB E.C.O. North America, Dr. Sauer3300& Partners, and the Coalition for the Northeast Corridor, whose members3301include several prominent transportation engineering firms. The3302Department continues to engage Amtrak, urging the application of value3303engineering to achieve significant savings and uncover further3304opportunities to reduce costs. The Department will also continue to3305engage with experts within and outside of government to maximize the3306finite resources available to build the transformative infrastructure3307projects the country requires to maintain our economic competitiveness.3308    Question. During the DOT budget hearing on May 15, 2025 I asked you3309about re-examining the decision to add the five additional slot pairs3310that were authorized for DCA in the FAA Reauthorization bill given the3311recent events and data showing the unacceptable frequency of proximity3312incidents over the last few years. You responded that you ``would3313welcome the opportunity to engage'' with the Committee on these3314matters.3315    Will you commit to reviewing the impacts of these additional3316flights on overall safety at DCA and, if they are determined to reduce3317the safety of the flying public, roll back the operation of these3318additional flights using the current authorities at your disposal and3319also work with Congress for a more permanent solution to reduce slots3320to improve safety at the airport?3321    Answer. The U.S. Department of Transportation and the Federal3322Aviation Administration (FAA) share your concerns and continue to3323support the ongoing NTSB investigations. Our work with the NTSB will3324help us understand the factors that contributed to recent accidents,3325and we will use the data to inform future FAA actions. I will continue3326to monitor capacity in view of the top priority of safety and will not3327hesitate to take appropriate action working with the FAA.3328    Immediately following the accident at DCA, I requested FAA restrict3329helicopter operations around the airport. Following NTSB's preliminary3330recommendations, I made these restrictions permanent. Additionally, all3331aircraft operating in DCA Class B airspace are now required to3332broadcast their position and identification using ADS-B Out, with very3333limited exceptions. We will take further immediate action if needed to3334mitigate any subsequently identified safety risks.3335    Safety in the U.S. transportation system, especially in aviation,3336is my number one priority. While flying remains the safest mode of3337transportation, aviation safety is not static. We must identify trends,3338use data more effectively, and immediately implement any corrective3339actions.3340    Question. On May 22, 2025, the Government Accountability Office3341released a decision (file # B-337137) finding that the Department of3342Transportation violated the Impoundment Control Act by delaying3343expenditures for the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI)3344program, which was passed into law in 2021 as part of the3345Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. The NEVI program supports build3346out of a national network of fast chargers for electric vehicles,3347thereby strengthening the ability of the American automobile industry3348to compete in the rapidly growing electric vehicle market, while3349bolstering American manufacturing and competitiveness through its Buy3350America requirements.3351    Given GAO's finding that DOT is illegally withholding NEVI program3352funding from States, when will DOT comply with the law and release the3353NEVI program funding that has been authorized and appropriated by3354Congress?3355    Answer. DOT continues to follow the law in its long-established3356practice regarding the timing of obligations and continues to follow3357the law with regard to the NEVI program. While GAO's May 22 decision3358suggested otherwise, the conclusions reached in that decision were3359based on fundamental errors of law and fact and GAO's opinions are not3360binding on executive branch agencies. As an executive branch agency,3361DOT adheres to the direction of the executive branch, including the3362Office of Management and Budget (OMB). As confirmed in OMB's June 3,33632025, letter, DOT's rescission of the previous Administration's NEVI3364program guidance and temporarily pausing new obligations until new3365guidance could be issued is consistent with its statutory authority3366under 23 U.S.C. 106(a)(3). This revised guidance will be posted for3367public comment. Once these comments are considered, final guidance will3368be published, allowing States to revise their plans and obligate NEVI3369funds. NEVI funds do not expire, so there is no risk of the period of3370availability for these funds to lapse. However, it should also be noted3371that the President's FY 2026 budget proposes rescission of unobligated3372NEVI funding. On June 24, 2025, the U.S. District Court for Western3373District of Washington issued a preliminary injunction that requires3374DOT to permit 14 States to resume obligation of funds under their prior3375State plans. DOT is complying with the injunction and considering3376appellate options.33773378                          SUBCOMMITTEE RECESS33793380    Senator Hyde-Smith. And the subcommittee stands in recess,3381subject to call of the chair. I want to say thank you to the3382Lilleys, and please know that our condolences are definitely3383genuine, and we are so sorry for your loss. But thank you for3384being here and being the advocate.3385    [Whereupon, at 11:51 a.m., Thursday, May 15, the3386subcommittee was recessed, to reconvene a time subject to the3387call of the Chair.]33883389  TRANSPORTATION, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, AND RELATED AGENCIES3390                  APPROPRIATIONS FOR FISCAL YEAR 202633913392                              ----------33933394                        WEDNESDAY, JUNE 11, 202533953396                                       U.S. Senate,3397           Subcommittee of the Committee on Appropriations,3398                                                    Washington, DC.3399    The subcommittee met at 3:31 p.m. in Room 192, Dirksen3400Senate Office Building, Hon. Cindy Hyde-Smith (chairwoman)3401presiding.3402    Present: Senators Hyde-Smith, Gillibrand, Murray, Coons,3403and Schatz.34043405              DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT34063407STATEMENT OF HON. SCOTT TURNER, SECRETARY34083409             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CINDY HYDE-SMITH34103411    Senator Hyde-Smith. I am pleased to be joined this3412afternoon by our Ranking Member Gillibrand and hopefully we'll3413have Chair Collins and Vice-Chair Murray here momentarily or3414sometime during this meeting as the other members of the3415subcommittee, as we review the fiscal year 2026 budget request3416for the Department of Housing and Urban Development.3417    Secretary Turner, it's my pleasure to welcome you to your3418very first hearing before this subcommittee. And I just want to3419thank you for your willingness, how energetic you are in3420getting things done, and it's just been a pleasure. I've3421enjoyed our previous conversations and I'm so impressed by your3422diverse backgrounds as your work as a pastor, an athlete, and a3423Texas legislator, to your leadership on opportunity zones, and3424your non-profit work supporting children in poverty.3425    How you found time to do all of this and accomplish all of3426this while being a husband and a father is pretty impressive.3427Your energy and leadership will be needed as the HUD budget3428faces a time of uncertainty.3429    As we kick off the fiscal year 2026 process, I want to3430highlight that Congress does not have a top line discretionary3431budget agreement in place at this time. As a result, the House3432and Senate will likely produce bills, with very different3433overall spending levels that will need to be reconciled later.3434    Meanwhile, existing home sales failed this spring, the3435lowest April numbers since 2009, according to the National3436Association of Realtors. Sluggish home sales and high interest3437rates suggest that the subcommittee can't rely on strong FHA3438and Ginnie Mae receipts to offset the CBO score of our bill.3439And of course, the cost of maintaining existing rental3440assistance continues to increase, driven by insufficient3441inventory of affordable housing across the entire country.3442These housing challenges must be balanced against competing3443demands in the transportation space, including aviation safety.3444    As for navigating these funding challenges, I think it's3445fair to say that OMB did not do you any favors with their3446request for HUD of $43.5 billion in new spending. This request3447is $33.6 billion or 43.6 percent below the current funding3448levels.3449    Despite the funding reduction, I'm delighted to see the3450request continue support for the Foster Youth Independent3451Living Initiative. This crucial funding ensures that when youth3452exiting foster care are at risk of homelessness, that they have3453access to a Section 8 voucher to help stabilize their housing3454situation. I hope that my colleagues on both sides of the aisle3455will join me and recognize the importance of this particular3456funding, and the need to continue assisting youth as they3457transition out of foster care.3458    As much as I look forward to supporting the request, I do3459have several concerns with a border request. The largest3460concern, of course, is a proposal to consolidate HUD's rental3461Assistance program, tenant and project-based Section 8 public3462housing, housing for the elderly and housing for persons with3463disabilities into one single block grant. Combined, these3464programs serve approximately 4.5 million households, the3465majority of whom are elderly and disabled.3466    There are a lot of concerns that losing this assistance3467would place those residents at significant likelihood of3468homelessness. The proposed single block grant would leave it to3469states alone to determine how HUD funds will be spent. Suddenly3470replacing current partnerships with local housing authority and3471contracts with private owners, risk undermining HUD's3472existence.3473    Although this new block grant proposal requires statutory3474changes from the authorizers, the budget request assumes those3475changes have already been made and request $2.7 billion below3476the current funding level for these programs. With this3477proposal, OMB appears to be putting the cart before the horse.3478    Separately, the request proposes the elimination of the3479popular effective Community Development Block Grant program.3480The CDBG program enjoys strong bipartisan support because it3481provides flexible funding for critical investments, serving3482low- and moderate-income communities across the country.3483    This essential resource for state and local government3484flies at the heart of HUD, Community Development mission. And3485at a time when there's a need to increase the supply of3486affordable housing, the budget request eliminates the HOME3487program and the critical role it serves in providing gap3488financing to countless housing projects every year.3489    I was also disappointed to see the request eliminate the3490Section four in Self-Help Homeownership Opportunity Program3491(SHOP), which grow local nonprofit capacity and use sweat3492equity models to promote home ownership. Additionally, when we3493should be making even stronger commitments to lifting up the3494least among us, and ending cycles of poverty and dependency,3495eliminating the Family Self-Sufficiency and loss programs,3496appear to be Pennywise in pound foolish, especially if Congress3497adopts a Rental Assistant Block Grant proposal. There's a3498danger to pulling on a loose thread.3499    I'm concerned about the broader risk across Federal housing3500programs, not only at HUD, but also at USDA and at Treasury. It3501feels like we're pulling on multiple loose threads without a3502clear vision of what comes next. While I understand and share3503the Administration's concerns about rising cost and shrinking3504revenues, the uncertainty created by these proposals increases3505risk, and risk raise cost.3506    The cost of uncertainty is reflected in the cost of3507materials of labor, and other times it is reflected in either3508fewer housing units or even entire projects being built.3509Managing these risks and uncertainties should be addressed with3510careful thought and deliberation.3511    As former HUD's Secretary, Dr. Ben Carson has often pointed3512out, ``A people without a vision will perish.'' The committee3513stands ready to work with HUD to identify a path forward to3514improve the efficiency and effectiveness of the programs we3515fund within the constraints we have to operate. Reducing undue3516regulatory burdens and lowering the cost of housing production,3517are two examples of where Congress and the Administration can3518identify early successes to build on.3519    I look forward to working with Ranking Member Gillibrand3520and the rest of our colleagues in writing a fiscally3521responsible THUD Bill this year, one that seeks to meet the3522needs of all Americans across the country.3523    Secretary Turner, once again, thank you for appearing3524before the committee today, and I look forward to your3525testimony and to continue these important conversations. And3526now I'll turn to Ranking Member Gillibrand for her opening3527statement.35283529                STATEMENT OF SENATOR KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND35303531    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Chair Hyde-Smith. Thank you,3532Secretary Turner, for joining us today and thank you for our3533discussion yesterday. I really appreciate it. Housing3534affordability, as you and I discussed, is a huge problem across3535the country. Whether you're in a red state or a blue state, a3536big city or a suburb, housing is just too expensive and it's3537time that we did something about it.3538    On day one, President Trump signed an executive order3539directing agencies to take ``Appropriate actions to lower the3540cost of housing and expand housing supply.'' I think we can all3541agree on that goal. But I worry that the Administration's3542actions are making things worse.3543    In fact, the President's tariffs and trade wars are making3544housing less affordable. Just an example from my state of New3545York, when you have a tariff on Canada, we get most of our wood3546for building new houses from Canada, and so that's just3547automatically going to raise your housing costs. And3548notwithstanding many multiples of other parts of the supply3549chain.3550    At HUD, the funding freezes, delays and contract and grant3551terminations, have sent service providers scrambling to keep3552supporting residents. Housing providers and homeless shelters3553have struggled to pay rent on millions of housing units and3554make payroll. Many have had to draw on costly lines of credit,3555spending funds that should be spent on supporting residents.3556    HUD is struggling to meet the most basic responsibilities3557after losing 2300 employees through the deferred resignation3558program. All of this has created new challenges for private3559developers, public housing authorities, and our communities.3560    To make matters worse, now, the Administration's trying to3561cut HUD in half. The 2026 budget requests cuts rental and3562homelessness assistance by over $27 billion, sets time limits3563on assistance, and kicks responsibility for vulnerable families3564to the states, without any detail about how that transition is3565going to happen.3566    10 percent of all residential rental units are supported by3567HUD rental assistance. That's 5 million residential units that3568are worth an estimated of $900 billion. Over half a million of3569those units are in New York. HUD assistance is baked into the3570long-term financial stability of those properties. So, if we3571just pull the rug out from under those renters, landlords and3572property owners without any recourse, we're going to create3573serious economic ripples.3574    On top of these cuts, the budget does nothing to address3575the funding cliff for 58,000 households, that were able to3576escape homelessness and intimate partner violence through the3577Emergency Housing Voucher program, including 9,400 who live in3578New York. I've visited some of those shelters. Some of them are3579the most lifesaving, productive, helpful shelters we have for3580women and their children.3581    The President wants to expand housing supply, but instead3582of investing in housing production, the budget eliminates3583funding for Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) Program3584and HOME Investment Partnership programs. So, the question is,3585how will this Administration increase the number of pieces of3586housing and units available?3587    The first Trump administration's HUD budgets were all3588rejected by Congress on a bipartisan basis, and I expect that3589that will happen again. Are our HUDs housing programs perfect?3590We agree, no. I agree with you that we should focus on working3591together to improve them, but given the millions of lives at3592stake, we need to be thoughtful and deliberative.3593    As we move forward with today's discussion about the fiscal3594year 2026 budget, I want to remind us all of the important3595things that HUD does and who HUD helps. HUD assistance helps3596over 10 million Americans keep a roof over their head. 9 out of359710 households are elderly, disabled, or working families. It3598helps address the dire housing needs in Indian country.3599    The Federal Housing Administration makes home ownership3600possible for first time homeowners and actively manages over 83601million mortgages. Ginnie Mae is central to the stability of3602America's housing finance system responsible for a portfolio of3603$2.6 trillion.3604    So, as you and I discussed Secretary Turner, we share the3605goals here. We want people to have a roof over their heads. We3606want children to feel safe in their homes. We want homes to be3607livable. We want to have much higher standard housing available3608for more Americans. And I trust your commitment to those goals.3609    I struggle with how we're going to meet those goals with3610the situation President Trump has created with regard to3611funding streams, with regard to staffing, with regard to all3612things HUD does, you'll have a massive challenge ahead of you,3613but I pledge to you chairwoman Hyde-Smith and Secretary Turner,3614I would like to work with you diligently on solving these3615massive problems.3616    We have so many homeless children in New York. We have3617enough homeless teenage girls from multiple Girl Scout troops.3618Kids should not be growing up homeless in America. We are the3619richest country in the world. This is a failure, a moral and3620ethical failure. And as a Pastor, I don't have to tell you3621about the Sermon on the Mount. We are called to do this work in3622multiple ways, not just as elected leaders, but people of faith3623and people of goodwill. So, I trust you'll work with me3624diligently on this for as long as you are HUD Secretary, and as3625long as you are chairman. Thank you.3626    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you. Now, Mr. Secretary, we would3627love to hear your remarks.36283629                 SUMMARY STATEMENT OF HON. SCOTT TURNER36303631    Secretary Turner. Well, thank you, Madam Chairman, and3632Ranking Member Gillibrand. I really appreciate your opening3633testimonies and I'll say from the beginning that I do commit to3634working with you. And also wanted to say hello and thank you to3635all of these distinguished members of the subcommittee.3636    Thank you for this opportunity today to testify in support3637of President Trump's 2026 budget for the United States3638Department of Housing and Urban Development. Members, we have a3639small window of opportunity to help every American achieve the3640dream of home ownership, and that clock is ticking.3641    As of April, of this year, the national median home price3642is $414,000, up from more than $341,000 in April of 2021. And3643this is an increase of more than 21 percent. It became very3644hard to own a home due to the policies of the Biden3645Administration, which have been marked by negligence and a lack3646of stewardship of taxpayer resources.3647    We can't keep running the same losing plays. It's time to3648run new plays. And I say that as the HUD Secretary, but also as3649a former athlete, we have to run plays that help us to be3650successful. And so, this budget, the President's budget of 20263651is indeed that new playbook that we are proposing. The budget3652requests $43.5 billion for the department funding critical3653programs and providing greater fiscal responsibility and3654restraint. It carries out President Trump's Day One directive3655to increase the supply of affordable housing.3656    This budget supports HUD's mission and we will maximize the3657budget that you all provide for us no matter the amount given.3658We've been taking inventory at HUD, as I said, during our3659confirmation, of every program. And we found that HUD's rental3660assistance to be full of waste, fraud, and abuse, broken and3661really deviating from its original purpose of serving3662temporarily Americans that are in need.3663    HUD's assistance is not supposed to be permanent. It should3664be a trampoline, not a hammock, not a resting place, if you3665will. It's supposed to be like a treadway, which is a temporary3666military bridge that is removed once obstacles are overcome.3667    We also are eliminating radical political agendas and3668wasteful spending at HUD. For example, we identified $2603669million in savings for taxpayers, cancelled $4 million in DEI3670contracts, and recovered an additional $1.9 billion from3671inactive contracts that should have been closed out under the3672previous Administration. We've seen that just pouring money3673into these programs only has fueled existing issues.3674    Now, we're reversing course to be efficient and to be3675effective, not to be bloated and bureaucratic as we have been.3676We're also undoing harmful regulations, including the Obama-3677Biden-era affirmatively furthering Fair housing rule, which3678effectively turned HUD into a national zoning board. While3679cutting red tape is indeed important, so is increasing the3680housing stock and opportunities for first time home buyers.3681    The Federal Housing Administration (FHA) as we know it,3682which ensures mortgages on more than 7 million homes, has3683insured mortgages for more than 140,000 1st time home buyers3684since January when President Trump returned to the White House.3685So that's good news. In addition, we're ending taxpayer funded3686subsidies at HUD for all illegal aliens.3687    But HUD is more than just about housing. We've streamlined3688the disaster recovery process to help funding get to the3689communities more quickly and efficiently. For our tribal3690communities, we announced a $2.2 million expansion of the3691tribal HUD-VASH program to address veteran homelessness. And3692for our rural communities in our country, we convened round3693tables and discussed solutions for workforce housing. We're3694returning HUD to its intended purpose, serving Americans3695through localized solution.3696    The President's budget continues this approach by limiting3697the size and the spending of Federal programs. It proposes a3698state-based formula grant to encourage states to have skin in3699the game for the funding and design of their own rental3700assistance. The block grant process will empower states to be3701more thoughtful and to be more precise in their stewardship.3702    HUD currently manages approximately 30,000 program awardees3703or recipients. No wonder the system is plagued by abuse.3704Empowering states through a reimagined grant system would prune3705this administrative burden, while maintaining necessary3706assistance for the elderly and disabled as stated in the budget3707language.3708    The budget also continued HUD's commitment to promoting3709economic independence, by adopting a compassionate common sense3710and historically bipartisan conversation around work3711requirements and time limits that will encourage able-bodied3712residents to move up and to move out of assisted housing.3713    It also addresses our nation's homelessness crisis by3714welcoming efforts from faith-based service providers and3715supporting localized solutions that affirm addressing3716homelessness and it goes far beyond housing.3717    The President's budget will save billions of taxpayer3718dollars and help us to restore fiscal responsibility. In order3719to properly serve the American people, we must care about the3720mission and care about the ones that we do serve and ones we've3721been called to serve and that's who and what we are at HUD now.3722    This 2026 budget request will allow us to operate at a3723standard of excellence, as part of the President's golden age.3724And I'm proud to be here, proud to support, and I'm looking3725forward, Madam Chair, for our conversation and to answer your3726questions. Thank you.3727    [The statement follows:]3728                Prepared Statement of Hon. Scott Turner3729    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today in support of3730President Trump's 2026 Budget for the United States Department of3731Housing and Urban Development.3732    We have a small window of opportunity to usher in the Golden Age of3733Homeownership. And the clock is ticking. As of April, the National3734median home price is 414,000 dollars. Up from more than 341,000 dollars3735in April of 2021-marking a huge increase of more than 21 percent. And3736the average 30-year fixed mortgage rate is almost 7 percent, nearly3737double the rate in 2019.3738    The numbers don't lie: It became significantly harder to own a home3739due to the policies of the Biden administration. Simply put, we need a3740new playbook. The President's Fiscal Year 2026 Budget is that playbook.3741It requests forty-three point five billion dollars for the Department.3742But more than that, it represents the clear balance between funding3743mission critical programs and much-needed fiscal restraint.3744    It carries out President Trump's Day One Presidential Memorandum to3745decrease the cost and increase the supply of affordable housing. And it3746reflects excellence, accountability, and purpose. This budget supports3747HUD's mission to serve rural, Tribal and urban communities. Much of3748that work is already underway.3749    And I want to emphasize this: We will maximize whatever funds3750Congress gives us, whether it's 10 billion dollars or just 10 dollars.3751    At HUD, we are taking inventory of every program and process. We3752started this mission on day one and are continuing to take inventory3753each and every day. What we have found is a rental assistance system3754full of waste, fraud, and abuse; inefficiencies and bloated3755administrative costs; deteriorating public housing units; and a rent3756structure that punishes work and marriage among residents. Simply put,3757it is a broken system that has deviated from its original and intended3758purpose--to temporarily help Americans in need.3759    I want to focus on that word: ``Temporary.'' HUD assistance is not3760supposed to be permanent. It's supposed to be a treadway, which is ``a3761temporary, tactical pontoon bridge designed for use by the military to3762cross water obstacles. It's a modular system made of sections that can3763be assembled quickly to form a bridge, allowing the passage of heavy3764vehicles and equipment.''3765    So HUD rental assistance is meant to be a temporary station for3766people in need in the same way a treadway facilitates the crossing of3767an obstacle. Military engineers remove the treadway after successfully3768crossing. We are taking steps to return HUD to its mission and to fix3769structural flaws.3770    We are consolidating our 40 plus departmental management systems3771into one, common platform and implementing processes to ensure3772accountability throughout our 60 plus grant programs so funding goes3773where--and to whom--it is intended for. At the same time, we are3774eliminating radical political agendas and wasteful spending. We3775identified 260 million dollars in savings for the American people,3776cancelled 4 million dollars in DEI contracts, and recovered an3777additional 1 point 9 billion dollars from inactive contracts that3778should have been closed out under the Biden administration. We have3779seen that pouring more money into programs, without thinking of long-3780term and sustainable solutions, has not and will not solve the issues3781of housing affordability and homelessness.3782    We want to be lean and mean, not bloated and bureaucratic. We are3783also working to undo harmful rules and regulations, including the3784Obama-Biden-era Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing rule. This3785mandate effectively turned HUD into a national zoning board, amounting3786to one of the greatest top-down intrusions ever undertaken by3787Washington. It forced local authorities to implement a 100-question3788grading tool and undertake complicated demographic analyses of their3789residents and housing stock to target suburbs and reshape them as part3790of a misguided scheme of social engineering. It was an attack on the3791American, suburban dream and, really, the American family. While3792cutting red tape is an important part of the equation, so is increasing3793the supply of land to build more housing.3794    The Department of Interior oversees more than 500 million acres of3795Federal land, including areas suitable for residential use. We are3796working with Secretary Doug Burgum to identify underutilized Federal3797land suitable for affordable housing development, while still3798protecting our public lands, parks and other important spaces.3799    As part of this partnership, we will work with governors and local3800leaders to better steward our public resources.3801    Finally, we are enforcing the rule of law at HUD and cutting off3802the taxpayer funded subsidization of HUD programs for illegal aliens,3803particularly when it comes to HUD-funded housing or HUD-backed3804mortgages. But HUD is about more than housing. Congress has provided3805HUD funding to support disaster recovery. But oftentimes, we found that3806paperwork was getting in the way of helping people. So, we did3807something about it. We streamlined and simplified the disaster recovery3808process with an updated universal notice that incorporated over 7003809stakeholder comments, and fully aligns with the President's Executive3810Orders. For our Tribal communities, we announced 2 point 2 million3811dollars under the expansion of the Tribal HUD-VASH program to address3812veteran homelessness.3813    And for our rural communities, especially ones with growing3814populations, we convened stakeholder roundtables and discussed3815solutions for more workforce housing so people can work where they live3816and live where they work. The impact of our policies underscores how we3817are returning HUD to its intended purpose-- serving everyday Americans3818through localized solutions. The President's Budget continues this3819local-first approach by limiting the size, scope and spending of3820Federal programs.3821    It is transformational and fundamentally changes how the government3822works for the better. It proposes a State-based formula grant which3823would encourage States to have skin in the game for the funding and3824design of their own rental assistance programs without heavy-handed3825interference from Washington. The block grant process will also empower3826States to be more thoughtful and precise in their distribution and3827spending of taxpayer dollars.3828    HUD currently manages approximately 30,000 program awardees or3829recipients, so there's no wonder the system is plagued by so much3830redundancy and abuse. Empowering States through the reimagined grant3831system would cut down on this administrative burden, help them do what3832the Federal Government has failed to do, and better serve the American3833people while maintaining necessary assistance for the elderly and3834disabled.3835    Importantly, the Budget also maintains HUD's commitment to3836promoting economic independence by adopting a compassionate, common-3837sense, and historically bipartisan conversation around reforms like3838time limits that will encourage able-bodied residents to move up and3839out of assisted housing.3840    Finally, it thoughtfully addresses our Nation's homelessness crisis3841by welcoming efforts from faith-based service providers and supporting3842comprehensive localized solutions that acknowledge addressing3843homelessness goes far beyond housing.3844    Overall, the President's Budget would save billions of taxpayer3845dollars that can play an important role in balancing our Nation's3846budget. The 2026 HUD Budget Request will allow HUD to operate at a3847standard of excellence as part of the President's Golden Age and I am3848proud to support it.38493850    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you very much. And I'm going to3851start the questioning process. I know the budget request speaks3852to rental assistance, but I would like to focus on housing3853production, especially affordable housing.3854    There's a lot of players involved in increasing the housing3855supply, including local, state, and Federal governments, banks,3856commercial developers, and nonprofit organizations. These3857entities can be involved in regulatory oversight, funding3858through grants and loans, or a combination of both.3859    As this is your first time before the committee, I'd like3860to put a quarter in the machine, so to speak, and let you talk3861about how the Administration sees the role of the Federal3862government in increasing housing supply relative to other3863actors. And then secondly, HUD's role relative to other Federal3864entities.3865    Secretary Turner. Thank you, Madam Chair. First, one of our3866first priorities was to look at the regulatory environment. And3867you know, burdensome regulations have really crippled home3868building in our country from a Federal level. I made a mention3869of the Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing rule, which we3870took down to restore flexibility back to localities, back to3871states. And also, when you look at some of the burdensome3872regulations on our local level where builders and developers,387340 percent of building a multifamily project is regulation. 203874to 25 percent of building a single-family project is in3875regulations.3876    And so, tearing down and making those regulations, easing3877the burden, will unleash the creativity, unleash the ingenuity3878of our developers and private builders around our country. We3879need about 7 million units of housing in our country.3880Multifamily, single family, manufactured housing duplexes,3881condos.3882    And so having said that, Secretary Burgum and I from the3883Department of Interior signed a joint task force MOU, to3884identify underutilized Federal lands. About 500 million acres,3885the Department of Interior has, and to look at those and say,3886where can we build more housing around our country, on our3887Federal lands, while protecting our national forest, while3888protecting our national parks and the beauty of our country,3889but utilizing this land to build more affordable housing and3890all types of housing.3891    Also, HUD is as you know, the leader and holds the code for3892manufactured homes. Manufactured homes are a great alternative,3893if you will, and building homes, affordable homes around our3894country. And so, we're working very hard to make sure that3895those codes are up to date, as a lot of codes need to be up to3896date. But manufactured housing is also one thing that we can do3897from a HUD standpoint to increase the housing supply.3898    So, in summation, taking down the regulatory environment,3899the MOU we have with Department of Interior, the manufactured3900housing, and also restoring flexibility and control and3901creativity, if you will, back to localities.3902    Senator Hyde-Smith. And Secretary Turner, I've spoken with3903you before about my Respect State Housing Laws Act, which would3904repeal a section of the Pandemic Era Cares Act of 2020 that3905continues to require many landlords and property owners to3906issue a 30-day notice to vacate before filing to evict a tenant3907for nonpayment of rent. As you know, we're no longer facing a3908pandemic. This supposedly temporary eviction provision needs to3909end and return the statute to its pre-Covid requirements.3910    However, on December the 13th of 2024, HUD published a3911final rule titled, 30 Day Notification Requirements Prior to3912Termination of Lease for Non-Payment of Rent. The rule requires3913tenants to receive a written notice at least 30 days before a3914formal judicial eviction is filed to non-payment of rent if3915they live in public housing or one of the several project-based3916rental assistance properties.3917    Will you rescind this rule to return eviction policies back3918to the state and local level in order to help house providers3919meet their financial obligations, and continue to provide3920affordable housing? And if you plan to rescind this harmful3921rule, when will you do it?3922    Secretary Turner. Thank you, Madam Chair. And yes, you3923know, housing affordability is of utmost priority for myself3924and our team at HUD. And to answer your question, this issue3925has been raised to us and I know that we are committed to3926working with you and your staff to make sure that this issue is3927resolved. And so, yes, ma'am, I commit to working with you to3928make sure that housing is affordable again and you best be3929assured that we've talked about this and the issue has been3930addressed.3931    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you. And the last one for right3932now, is like other agencies across the government, HUD3933programs, especially in the case of rental assistance, can be a3934high-risk area for improper payments. In some cases, rental3935subsidies exceed what a household is eligible to receive, and3936in other cases, the payments are too low.3937    And while the Government Accountability Office (GAO) notes3938that reducing improper payments is critical to safeguarding3939Federal funds and could help achieve cost savings, the HUD3940Office of Inspector General (IG) reported last month that the3941department is unable to estimate improper payments for the3942tenant-based and project-based Section 8 programs. Its two3943largest rental assistance programs.3944    In April, the acting IG testified that HUD has uniquely3945struggled to identify and mitigate the risk of improper3946payments. Mr. Secretary, how has HUD prioritizing fixes to its3947improper payments problem? In what step will the new leadership3948in the office of Chief Financial Officer, Public and Indian3949Housing and the Office of Housing, be taking this year to3950resolve the GAO and the IG concerns?3951    Secretary Turner. Thank you, Madam Chairman. So, you know,3952we have the best CFO in the country and Mr. Irving Dennis, who3953was in a previous Administration with Dr. Carson. We had clean3954audits during Dr. Carson's tenure here. And now, you know, we3955do have a bit of an issue on our hands. But having Irv Dennis3956back and his team and the CFO's office and our offices of PIH3957and Housing, they are doing a top to bottom review of this3958improper payment issue. And it will get resolved and we will be3959in compliance.3960    And we look forward to hearing from you and the committee3961and working with you on this. But Irv Dennis and his team are3962on top of this. Thank you, ma'am.3963    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you. Senator Gillibrand.3964    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. The other3965committee that I have a leadership role on is the Senate Aging3966Committee, and you know how important housing is to our older3967Americans. Seniors are the fastest growing age group among3968people experiencing homelessness. Over 41,000 seniors, age 653969and older experienced homelessness at the time of the 20243970point in time count. And that number could triple by the year39712030.3972    The budget, however, cuts HUD homeless assistance by 133973percent, and you propose strict time limits even for seniors.3974These are people with fixed incomes, can't work, face very3975increasing healthcare costs and challenges and need wraparound3976services to stay housed.3977    So, Mr. Secretary, under your proposal, what happens to the3978seniors currently being served in permanent supportive housing?3979And what's your ambition with regard to addressing homelessness3980amongst our older Americans?3981    Secretary Turner. Thank you, Senator Gillibrand. I3982appreciate our conversation yesterday. And as you will note in3983the budget, the language in the budget prioritizes our seniors,3984our elderly and disabled and our veterans. And so, we are well3985aware of this. And at HUD, we will continue to prioritize our3986seniors.3987    You know, you alluded to the homelessness in our country.3988And I want to make note for the committee, you know, with3989record funding from HUD, HUD's budget over the last 8 years3990went from approximately $42 billion to $77 billion, and yet,3991homelessness is at an all-time high. It went up 18 percent last3992year with over 770,000 people homeless at one single night in3993January of 2024.3994    And when I look at this, obviously with this type of3995funding and with the role that we do have, that's unacceptable.3996As you know, I was just in New York City visiting New York City3997and NYCHA, the public housing authority there, which has many3998problems as it pertains to stewardship, as it pertains to fraud3999and abuse and authorities there, leadership there, being4000indicted and, you know, homelessness.4001    We've made it very hard for faith-based institutions to4002work with the government, to work with HUD in particular. And4003when I visit cities around our country and you see the faith-4004based institutions that are actually doing the work every day4005as it pertains to homelessness, we need to partner with these4006institutions, partner with the nonprofits that actually have4007data-driven results to decrease homelessness, to not only get4008people off the streets, but also to help people be transformed.4009    When you think about drug addiction, mental health, the4010restoration of the family, the faith. And so that's my approach4011to it, Senator, is to have a holistic approach and better4012stewardship, if you will, and to bring in these partnerships so4013that we can eradicate homelessness on our streets. But the4014budget language does prioritize our elderly and our disabled.4015    Senator Gillibrand. Thank you. And I would like to work4016with you on perhaps new legislative language about increasing4017the ability to do partnerships, faith-based partnerships, as I4018mentioned to you yesterday.4019    There's a not-for-profit in the Bronx called the Fortune4020Society. And I would love you to tour that, because they deal4021with formerly incarcerated men, which is a very critical4022population that are at risk for homelessness. Not only do they4023house them, they give them skills training, they give them4024mental health support, they give them any substance use4025disorder order prevention that's necessary.4026    And they holistically look at these individuals and say,4027how do we make sure that you get on your feet, that you have a4028great job and you can pay for your own housing? And what does4029it take to get you from the day you are released to the day you4030are self-sufficient.4031    And I would love to work with you on legislation to4032accomplish those goals in whatever ways we can because again,4033the failure of this country not to house Americans is painful4034and we have to do a better job. And I'm open to all solutions4035and I'd love to work with the chairwoman on that.4036    The second issue that I raised with you that I wanted to4037raise for the committee is, what do we do with all the4038buildings that are empty in cities like New York? There are so4039many commercial buildings that no one is going to work in4040anymore, that are entirely unutilized. And I would like to work4041on legislation to provide conversions, to be able to create4042resources, and also authorities, so that we can make it easier4043to take empty buildings and transform them into critical4044housing needs.4045    Now, the type of critical housing needs that I would make4046this eligible for, is certainly for formally homeless. I think4047we have to get out of the model that homeless people are going4048to shelters. They should be going to permanent housing, with4049the transitional wraparound services like the Fortune Society4050offers for this one group of people, like some of the shelters4051offer for battered women and their children.4052    So, the kinds of services that get people on their feet so4053they can be self-sufficient. And there's going to be a lot of4054important things we need to look at to make conversions4055possible. And I also would like your commitment that you will4056work with me on that to get legislation written and supported4057to get the resources and the authorities to do that kind of4058work.4059    Secretary Turner. Yes, ma'am. I look forward to working4060with you on these two issues that you raised. Thank you.4061    Senator Hyde-Smith. Senator Schatz.4062    Senator Schatz. Thank you, Chair, and vice-Chair, and thank4063you, Secretary. First of all, appreciate our team's working4064relationship as Maui continues to try to recover, which starts4065with housing. So, I appreciate that good working relationship.4066    I just wanted to touch upon your testimony regarding4067reducing regulatory barriers. I've sort of over the last, I4068don't know, five to 8 years or so, been radicalized on the4069extent to which there really are regulatory barriers and they4070really are an impediment to building enough housing for4071everybody, not just affordable housing, capital A, capital H,4072but housing for everybody.4073    And I agree with you, there are Federal barriers, but the4074truth is, if you talk to any developer and this 20 to 404075percent of the cost of home being regulations, most of those4076regulations are at the local level. So, I guess the first thing4077I'd like you to do is just speak to where the Federal4078government cannot sort of override. It's my dream, override4079zoning locally. I would get exactly three votes in the Senate4080for that, so I understand. But not to override it, not to come4081over the top, but to nudge them in the right direction.4082    And then secondly, I want to talk about the pro housing4083program. I have some pride of authorship. It was my thing when4084I was chair of this subcommittee, and I understand it's sort of4085gotten caught up in this DEI question plus there's budgetary4086pressure. But I want to get that relaunched, with you, because4087I do think it's the most significant pro housing deregulatory4088mechanism that we've passed.4089    Maybe there are other things that we can do in the future,4090or that we should have done in the past, but this thing is a4091big pot of money to incentivize states and counties to kind of4092unravel this labyrinth that we've created for ourselves. So,4093I'd like your comments on both matters.4094    Secretary Turner. Well, thank you Senator. And yes, it's4095been good to work with you and your staff for your constituents4096there. And I look forward to being with you there sometime.4097    You know, the regulatory environment, I mentioned the AFFH4098rule that we tore down as far as HUD being a national zoning4099board, that restores the flexibility back to the locality. So,4100from our standpoint, from the Federal side, to restore that4101back to them as one step.4102    The second step is as the HUD secretary and as I travel,4103and this is what I have been doing, so I'm going to bring you4104real time. What I have been doing is I travel around the cities4105and meet with stakeholders.4106    When I meet with local officials, mayors, economic4107development authorities and things and people of this nature,4108is to encourage them, as we are doing from a Federal side, to4109take inventory of their regulatory environment, to take4110inventory of their restrictions, what's causing the4111restrictions in their localities that is keeping people from4112building, keeping developers from building, and not only4113identify the problem, but do something about the problem.4114    And so, that has proven to be very effective thus far. And4115so, to answer your questions, taking down a regulatory4116environment from HUD standpoint and encouraging localities from4117their standpoint to do the same. I believe that if we4118continually do this, that will help unleash the flexibility and4119the freedom for developers to build. Again, we need 7 million4120units, and developers want to build, they just need the4121government to take their hands off of them from Federal and4122state.4123    Senator Schatz. This is one of the only areas where4124politicians create a shortage of something on purpose and then4125stroke their chins wondering why there's not enough of it. But4126I guess the point I wanted to make to you, Mr. Secretary, is4127that, I have some colleagues, who are sort of waking up to how4128much of a problem regulatory barriers are, specifically at the4129zoning level, restrictive covenants, minimum lot sizes, all of4130that stuff, which was essentially the sort of great grandson of4131post Jim Crow real estate law.4132    And as they evolve and they think about the policy tools,4133they basically reinvent the thing that we have annually in the4134THUD mark for the last, I think it's now 3 years. And so, this4135program induces--it doesn't just provide planning grants, it4136induces with a small financial incentive to counties to sort of4137get off their butts and do the thing. So, I just want to keep4138working on this.4139    And I understand that you and I may have a disagreement4140about what constitutes woke or DEI or whatever, and there were4141some racial equity criteria in the grant announcements, that I4142understand Donald Trump is President. He's not going to go for4143that. And fair enough, you won. But the core of the bill and4144the core of the program does not hinge on that particular4145question. And you could restart it sort of in your own vision.4146    And I'd be really pleased to see it be restarted because it4147was always a bipartisan priority. It's a real innovative4148program. The THUD mark doesn't allow you a lot of flexibility4149to do cool stuff and innovate. You just kind of have to go,4150okay, here's our capital expenses for public housing4151authorities, here's our home program. And they're all so4152important and so underfunded. You don't get to do a lot of new4153things. This is an area where we did a new thing and it was4154really starting to make progress. So, I encourage you to look4155at restarting it as quickly as you can. Thank you, sir. Thank4156you.4157    Senator Hyde-Smith. Senator Murray.4158    Senator Murray. Thank you very much. Chair Hyde-Smith,4159Senator Gillibrand, good to work with both of you on this4160committee. Secretary Turner, welcome. You know, the entire4161point of your department is to help Americans keep a roof over4162their head. I am really afraid that pretty much everything that4163you and President Trump have done to date appears kind of in4164direct opposition to that goal.4165    First off, the President's illegal funding freezes are4166causing chaos across the country. I was in Everett in my home4167state of Washington a few weeks ago. I was talking to4168organizations that help people find housing. And if they can't4169get their already awarded funding, they will be forced to start4170evicting people this summer, and may even have to shut down4171their services altogether.4172    And on top of that, you're pushing out 2,300 staff who are4173dedicated public servants with decades of experience.And I just4174don't see how you can tell us with a straight face that forcing4175out over a quarter of your workforce is going to have no4176effect, on your department's ability to meet its statutory4177responsibilities under law.4178    And now, after all the damage that's been done, you are4179here today requesting that congress slash funding for your4180department nearly in half, nearly in half, that would force4181millions of Americans out of their homes. Your request would4182force states to make up for the draconian cuts and abdication4183of responsibility. And I don't know what state can afford to do4184that, especially when this Administration is simultaneously4185working to shift even more costs to states for things like4186Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) and4187healthcare.4188    It is kind of absurd to claim that we cannot afford basic4189programs that keep people off the streets, but we can hand4190trillions of dollars in new tax cuts to billionaires and big4191corporations. You know, housing affordability and homelessness4192is a crisis in Washington State and in many places across the4193country, you know that. But this Administration just appears to4194me to be trying to make it all worse.4195    And I'll tell you right now, looking at your budget4196request, as far as I'm concerned as Vice Chair of this4197committee, it's not going anywhere. I want to start with the4198funding that you are illegally freezing. The Continuum of Care4199program is essential to addressing homelessness in my home4200state of Washington.4201    In March, HUD began issuing grant agreements with a host of4202new conditions that are deeply concerning and completely4203unrelated to HUD's mission. HUD did that without notice and4204without any explanation of what the vaguely worded conditions4205mean, or what a grantee would be required to do.4206    As I said earlier, organizations I have talked to in my4207state say that without these funds, they're going to evict4208people this summer. The courts, as you know, are sorting this4209out. I'm glad to see that they have extended the preliminary4210injunction to stop HUD from enforcing these new and extreme4211requirements.4212    But Mr. Secretary, I want to ask you, are you going to, and4213I quote from the court order, ``Take every step necessary to4214effectuate this order, including clearing any administrative,4215operational or technical hurdles to implementation?''4216    Secretary Turner. Thank you, Madam Senator. Great to meet4217you. As you have said, this is under active litigation and so4218we'll leave it there. And once this is through litigation, I4219look forward to having a conversation. But right now, I won't4220comment on it.4221    Senator Murray. Not even to tell us if you're following the4222court order?4223    Secretary Turner. I will follow the law, but I won't4224mention it anymore, it's under active litigation.4225    Senator Murray. Are you following the court order?4226    Secretary Turner. Our team follows the law and the court4227order. Yes, ma'am.4228    Senator Murray. Are you in full compliance with the court4229order?4230    Secretary Turner. I'm not going to speak anymore on it4231because of the active litigation.4232    Senator Murray. Then you can't even tell us.4233    Secretary Turner. You know, the other thing that I wanted4234to mention to you, well----4235    Senator Murray. Let me just follow up on this, when will4236you be in full compliance with the court order? Are funds being4237withheld today?4238    Secretary Turner. We will be with you as soon as we can4239once it's done with active litigation.4240    Senator Murray. So, are funds being withheld right now,4241even though the court order is in place?4242    Secretary Turner. You know, you talked about the 23004243people----4244    Senator Murray. Mr. Secretary, I just want you to know I'm4245talking about this continuum care because, I am hearing from4246providers in my state that funds are being withheld, meaning4247you are not in compliance. Are you aware of that?4248    Secretary Turner. Ma'am, I am aware of the litigation, yes,4249ma'am. It's an active litigation Senator.4250    Senator Murray. Yeah. And I'm hearing that funds are still4251being withheld despite the court order. So, I need to know if4252you know that, and if you're going to make sure that the funds4253are released?4254    Secretary Turner. Yes ma'am, I'm the Secretary. And so,4255things that go on at HUD I'm well aware of. But I also know4256with this active litigation that I'm not going to say very much4257in our hearing today, but happy to talk to you as time goes on4258and as I'm able to. I commit to that.4259    Senator Murray. Well, we are running out of time. They're4260going to start evicting people and they need those funds. I4261want to move on to another example because I just haven't----4262    Secretary Turner. Can I address the 2300 people that quit?4263    Senator Murray. Well, you're just going to--you got 104264seconds because I need to talk to you about a specific program.4265    Secretary Turner. Alright, I'll take it. So just to4266clarify, the 2300 people that left HUD, it was voluntary. They4267were not forced out.4268    Senator Murray. I know. I've been hearing that from every4269Secretary that comes before.4270    Secretary Turner. Well, no ma'am. This is just me from HUD,4271and I'm just telling you it's 2,300 that they took----4272    Senator Murray. They were told, if you don't get out now,4273you're going to be sorry in the future. So, it is people that4274we need there. Anyway, let me move on to another example. Your4275Green and Resilient Retrofit Program, that was created to help4276make properties more resilient to disasters, and less expensive4277to heat and cool.4278    On day one, you and the President deemed this common-sense4279program woke, somehow, and illegally attempted to terminate it.4280The courts have now directed HUD to process and disperse those4281funds. But I want you to know, we are hearing from owners that4282HUD is doing nothing to restore the administrative contract4283that DOGE canceled, which is holding up this deal for moving4284forward.4285    This committee has now asked five times for HUD to brief my4286staff on this, yet they've refused to speak to us about basic4287legal requirements. So, let me just ask you here today, why are4288you preventing HUD assisted property owners from making overdue4289upgrades to low income and senior housing?4290    Secretary Turner. Again, Senator, this also is under active4291litigation, as you know. And so, my comments on this will be4292zero to limited. It's under active litigation. As soon as we4293get done with that, I'm happy to speak with you.4294    Senator Murray. Well, there are people waiting. And this4295fund's critical and there are court orders, I expect them to be4296followed. And I'm just going to say for the record, there is4297nothing objectional about this funding.4298    It's stunning to me that we are under a court order and4299you're not giving the money out. It's for things like replacing4300windows and outdated HVAC systems, installing fire resistant4301roofs. These are things that are badly needed for people in4302this country. And I am out of time. So, thank you Madam Chair.4303    Secretary Turner. Thank you, ma'am.4304    Senator Hyde-Smith. Senator Coons.4305    Senator Coons. Thank you, Chair Hyde-Smith, and Ranking4306Member Gillibrand. Secretary Turner, welcome. Thank you for the4307chance to be with you today. I appreciated receiving finally,4308your budget submission. And I look forward to getting to know4309you better and to work with you.4310    I'll just mention right at the outset, Madam Chair, that my4311week had a positive start because I got to visit a project4312built by a faith-based organization from the Mennonite4313community, to address youth aging out of foster care in a rural4314community known as Greenwood, Delaware. And I'm pleased, as are4315you, that the youth aging out of foster care program will be4316sustained.4317    But I'm gravely concerned that several of the tools that4318were used to make that project work, are not being continued. I4319was a county executive. I spent 6 years of my life working on4320housing. We were responsible for the second largest housing4321authority in my state. The housing Authority didn't own any4322units. It was all private sector, private landlords, but4323working in partnership with us and with HUD.4324    And I'm working on a bipartisan piece of legislation with4325Senator Kramer of North Dakota, called The Choice in Affordable4326Housing Act. And this would make housing choice vouchers more4327accessible. It would do a better job of attracting and4328retaining private sector landlords to the program. It's got a4329wide range of groups involved in housing, housing production,4330housing advocacy, supporting it.4331    And I'd like you to commit to working with me on that4332legislation to see if we can make progress on improving the4333Housing Choice Vouchers program. Is that something you'd be4334willing to work with me on?4335    Secretary Turner. Thank you, Senator. It is great to see4336you, sir. And I do look forward to seeing the language and4337hearing from you and your staff and how we can work together.4338Obviously, the housing affordability is a top priority of mine4339and taking care of American people. And also, to see people4340live lives with self-sustainability and for the youth aging out4341of foster care.4342    You know, I'm looking forward to working with this4343committee and also with the First Lady as we take care of our4344youth to make sure that they land on solid ground in the days4345ahead.4346    Senator Coons. Well, you heard from Senator Gillibrand, and4347I'll repeat the same thing. A passion on my part for working on4348the conversion of formerly commercial buildings to residential4349buildings. I'm close with a developer in Delaware that's done4350that a number of times successfully. As Senator Gillibrand4351knows, it's very difficult to do.4352    Some properties lend themselves to it easily, some4353properties are almost impossible. We have a significant4354challenge nationally. We are not producing enough affordable4355housing. We're not producing enough housing in urban centers.4356We're not producing enough housing in rural areas. And taking4357underutilized or vacant commercial properties and appropriately4358transitioning them to housing for those who are either4359homeless, unhoused or under housed, is another thing I'd love4360to work with you on.4361    But I must say, just right off the top, that I looked at4362this budget, you are a person of faith as are the rest of us on4363this panel. You share a commitment to caring for our vulnerable4364neighbors, the least of these. But this budget, Mr. Secretary,4365is not a serious proposal. It does not meet the urgent housing4366needs of our country. A 50 percent cut to all the programs at4367HUD would be devastating to families, and goes well beyond4368right sizing a bloated agency, which was your phraseology.4369    I think it takes a chainsaw of programs that I've worked4370with for years, and that I've seen help the neediest Americans.4371As county executive, I relied on the HOME program. I've worked4372closely with the SHOP Sweat Equity program. I've supported and4373worked closely with the Continuum of Care program, whether it's4374HOPWA or housing for the elderly, or housing for persons with4375disabilities.4376    The solution to eliminating all of these services and then4377rolling them up into a new black ground program, I will assert4378Mr. Secretary, will simply shift the burden onto states and4379counties. States and counties will end up being forced to pick4380up services for people who will become newly unhoused. That may4381not be your intention, but it is certainly my intention to test4382and push and challenge some of the assumptions underlying this.4383    The Administration is shifting the burden onto states and4384counties for a lot of other programming, for food assistance,4385healthcare, education, and that will badly strain state and4386county budgets, to also move housing affordability for seniors,4387for the disabled for families with children. I think goes4388beyond streamlining HUD services, but leads to fewer people4389receiving services.4390    Let me just talk a little bit more about CDBG and HOME. As4391county executive, HOME was absolutely critical to our working4392and partnership with local nonprofit, several of them faith-4393based. It required a non-Federal match, a robust non-Federal4394match. It allowed us to build affordable housing, especially4395for disabled folks in our county. It helped 44,500 individuals4396a year.4397    Do you actually believe state and local governments have4398the ability to pick up the cost for services that will be4399shifted to them if all of these programs are eliminated?4400    Secretary Turner. Thank you, Senator, and I appreciate your4401perspective on everything and thank you to your service, you4402know, both locally and here, nationally. Senator, HUD has4403record funding and currently we're only able to serve one out4404of four eligible families with $77 billion.4405    And I alluded to this before, and I will say again, we have4406to do something different, because what we have been doing over4407these many years has not been working. Stewardship has to be a4408priority. There's a lot of waste, there's a lot of fraud,4409there's a lot of abuse in our system, and we can't, when I4410alluded to saying, you know, you can't keep running the same4411plays.4412    What I mean, the best teams that I've seen in my career are4413the teams that make adjustments. You know, we can't keep4414running the same play because it's causing us to lose. Well,4415that's what I feel like in America today, and particularly with4416HUD, that we've been running plays that have caused us to lose.4417    And so, sir, this is a different way of looking at things.4418It's a rethinking of how can we get states to have skin in the4419game. I do realize, I understand the responsibility that you4420speak of, but this is a way for states to identify their unique4421needs and then to distribute their funds as they see fit. They4422can identify those that have been successful and fund those.4423And so, it's a way for the states to uniquely get involved, to4424be very deliberate and decisive of their stewardship.4425    And so, sir, that's the paradigm that I'm talking about.4426That's the culture shift I'm talking about. It's a new way of4427looking at it, a new way of rethinking it. The HOME program, to4428be honest, over the last 33 years has built 1.3 million units.4429That's only 32 units a year, and it provides gap funding, but4430the other funding has been $185 billion. So, I think we have to4431relook look at this in a different way and do it better.4432    Senator Coons. Mr. Secretary, with all due respect, I4433welcome and appreciate some fresh thinking or a new look, a new4434attitude. But cutting funding by 50 percent, cutting the HUD4435workforce by a third, is not going to produce any significant4436increase in housing production.4437    You can reorganize, you can right size, you can reanalyze4438existing programs. I would reject the assertion that the HOME4439program as administered in my county was rife with waste,4440fraud, and abuse. I'm not going to defend every HOME program in4441every county in America because I can't. But I know the ones I4442was responsible for.4443    I met with the Delaware Home Builders earlier today. Many4444of the folks in the room I've known four decades. One of them4445is among the leading builders of quality, affordable4446multifamily housing in America. And they probably don't want me4447to quote them right now, but their comment was the staffing4448cuts that you've pushed through this agency, reducing by a4449third, the total headcount, means that getting projects4450approved that have to have an approval, a sign off on a4451mortgage, or a sign off on a project approval, their wait times4452have gone from months to projects not moving forward, falling4453apart.4454    And they cited to me the potentially disastrous4455consequences for low-income housing tax credit projects, for4456HOME projects, for Section 232 and 202 projects, of having all4457the staff with experience and expertise managing these, gone.4458And then all the funding shoved into one big pile and sort of4459pushed at the states to say, you come up with your priorities.4460    In the room full of folks, I just met with, who have4461decades of experience building housing of all kinds, high end,4462mid, low, multi-family, single-family, inner city, rural. These4463are guys who represent the whole scope of the home building4464industry in my state. They were not optimistic that working4465together, we are going to generate more housing.4466    And I'll say one last point on one comment if I might.4467Senator from Rhode Island, Senator from Hawaii, Senator from4468Delaware: the idea that we're going to solve this problem by4469accessing Federal lands, that doesn't build you one single unit4470of housing in my state.4471    East Coast, there's not a whole lot of relevant vacant4472Federal land. And I dare say, although these are not my states4473or my geography, in states like Wyoming, or Montana, or Utah,4474my hunch is the infrastructure cost to connect out to and build4475on available vacant Federal land may not pencil out.4476    Let me conclude, I'm way over, and I apologize, Madam4477Chair, but I was the last, so I figured I'd take a little4478moment. Thank you for what you've said today about the values4479you bring to this work and about working together to find the4480right balance. And thank you for your willingness to take on a4481challenging department at an important time.4482    But bluntly, Mr. Secretary, I think we need to produce more4483housing, not less. And I look forward to working with you to4484try to find ways to do that in keeping with our charge of4485stewardship. Thank you, Madam Chair.4486    Secretary Turner. Thank you, sir.4487    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you. Without objection, this4488letter from the First Lady Melania Trump, in support of the4489Foster Youth Independence Initiative, will be entered into the4490record.4491    [The information follows:]44924493                     ADDITIONAL COMMITTEE QUESTIONS44944495    Senator Hyde-Smith. And if there are no further questions,4496Senators may submit additional questions for the subcommittee's4497official hearing record. We request your responses within 304498days. The subcommittee stands in recess, subject to call of the4499chair.4500                Questions Submitted to Hon. Scott Turner4501            Questions Submitted by Senator Cindy Hyde-Smith4502    Question. Mr. Secretary, one of President Trump's first actions was4503to direct Federal agencies to pursue actions to lower the cost of4504housing. This continues the action the President took in his first4505Administration by establishing a White House Council on Eliminating4506Regulatory Barriers to Affordable Housing. In 2021, the HUD Office of4507Policy Development published a report on the Council's work.4508Unfortunately, this report was largely ignored by the Biden4509Administration.4510    Mr. Secretary, does the 2021 report still provide value as a4511roadmap for HUD to address housing affordability challenges, or is4512there a need to start fresh?4513    Answer. The report, ``Eliminating Regulatory Barriers to Affordable4514Housing: Federal, State, Local, and Tribal Opportunities'', was4515published in January 2021 under the leadership of Secretary Ben Carson.4516It continues to serve as a valuable roadmap for addressing the housing4517affordability issues facing the Nation. This Administration carries on4518the commitment to reducing housing costs and increasing housing supply4519through the reduction of burdensome regulations.4520    The report provides a foundation on which overly burdensome4521regulations and processes can be identified, such as instances when4522``1) the costs of implementing or complying with the regulation or4523process exceed the social benefits; (2) complex, non-transparent4524development processes limit entry to the market; and (3) restrictive4525land use regulations near employment and services may limit labor4526mobility, harming households and the National economy.''4527    The report identified areas where HUD can take a leadership role in4528the effort to reduce and eliminate regulatory barriers, such as making4529environmental review processes less restrictive, reducing the burden of4530program requirements in the Housing Choice Voucher program, and quickly4531implementing innovation and best practices in the manufactured housing4532sector. This Administration will continue to look for areas in which4533program processes can be improved and burdens reduced in ways that4534tangibly expand housing supply and lower costs for American households.45354536                                 ______45374538              Questions Submitted by Senator Susan Collins4539    Question. Mr. Secretary, enabling seniors to age-in-place is4540critical for the health and well-being of the individuals, the4541stability of local communities, and the Federal cost savings captured4542by avoiding the high costs of assisted living facilities. For these4543reasons, I have championed funding at HUD for low-cost, low-barrier,4544high impact home modifications that enable seniors to remain in their4545homes and communities.4546    These modifications include minor adjustments such as installing4547grab bars and railings, and replacing door knobs and faucets, as well4548as relatively bigger modifications such as replacing an existing bath4549tub with a walk-in tub, or anchoring an outside wheelchair ramp.4550    In the cases of replacing existing tubs in existing homes, or4551anchoring wheelchair ramps on existing property footprints, HUD has4552determined that these activities require environmental reviews. These4553requirements result in time delays and cost increases, and discourage4554proven strategies to help seniors remain in their homes.4555    Meanwhile, the Department of Transportation has figured out how to4556exempt from environmental review the replacement of the Francis Scott4557Key Bridge in Baltimore following its collapse last year. If D.O.T. can4558figure out how to exempt an entire bridge replacement project from an4559environmental review, surely HUD can figure out how to do that for4560replacing a tub in an existing bathroom.4561    Mr. Secretary, what can you do to help HUD get out of its own way4562when it comes to establishing reasonable environmental review4563requirements?4564    Answer. In compliance with several of the President's executive4565orders, HUD is reviewing all environmental requirements and removing4566those that are not based in statute and impede housing development.4567    As to your example above, the FHA single family mortgage insurance4568program is not subject to environmental review under HUD's NEPA4569regulations.4570    For all other HUD funding and mortgage insurance programs, while4571minor housing rehabilitation is technically subject to environmental4572review, repair activities such as installing grab bars, replacing sinks4573and tubs, and replacing fixtures are categorically excluded from NEPA4574and not subject to related laws and authorities (See categorical4575exclusion covering maintenance activities: 24 CFR 50.19(b)(13)).4576    Larger scope rehab such as a full bathroom remodel is also4577categorically excluded from NEPA, but is subject to certain laws such4578as the National Historic Preservation Act. However, these activities4579would be exempt from compliance with most other environmental laws and4580authorities (See categorical exclusion for rehab: 24 CFR 50.20(a)(2)).4581    Question. HUD's rental assistance programs provide access to safe,4582stable homes for veterans, women at risk of or fleeing domestic4583violence, people with disabilities, and families with young children.4584They also provide tenants choice on where to live and housing providers4585with a steady, reliable source of income with a lower risk of4586nonpayment, and increase efficiency and reduce bureaucracy by putting4587the onus of maintaining housing on providers rather than the Federal4588Government.4589    The Administration's Budget Request proposes to consolidate HUD's4590rental assistance programs into a State-based formula grant program and4591institute a 2-year cap on rental assistance for able-bodied adults.4592According to the proposal, this State Rental Assistance Block Grant4593program would lead to a $26 billion decrease in HUD's rental assistance4594programs.4595    While it is no secret that there are many improvements that can be4596made to these programs, I am not sure that a $26 billion cut is one of4597them. HUD's rental assistance programs often operate in silos with4598different rules, funding mechanisms, and administrative requirements4599that can create inefficiencies for housing providers and confusion for4600tenants. Streamlining would reduce significant burdens for housing4601providers, families, and the administration, but shifting rental4602assistance to a State-based block grant model could also reduce4603accountability, national consistency, and put services that are4604provided to the elderly and people with disabilities in jeopardy.4605    Mr. Secretary, HUD has been successful with rental assistance pilot4606programs like the Rental Assistance Demonstration and Moving to Work.4607Are there lessons that HUD can take away from these pilots or are there4608other strategies HUD is considering to improve the delivery and4609effectiveness of rental assistance?4610    Answer. The Moving to Work (MTW) Demonstration is a HUD program4611that provides PHAs with funding and regulatory flexibilities to tailor4612their programs to fit their local needs. Through the demonstration4613program PHAs are able to improve cost effectiveness, provide greater4614housing choice, and promote resident self-sufficiency. MTW agencies4615have led the country in RAD conversions, self-sufficiency programming,4616and regionalization of PHAs to expand efficiencies and housing choice.4617Further, five State-level PHAs are already MTW agencies. MTW has been a4618very successful demonstration program and is an approach we can learn4619from and expand for the proposed State Rental Assistance Program.4620    The Rental Demonstration Program (RAD), as a demonstration program,4621has the flexibility to keep adapting to changing conditions and to4622provide the participating PHAs, private owners, and their partners with4623the tools to address their affordable housing recapitalization needs.4624It's a great example of reducing regulatory constraints to unleash4625creativity and resources, with proven results.4626    HUD will leverage its knowledge from these programs to support4627States in designing rental assistance programs to improve housing4628choice, expand affordable housing, and promote economic independence4629for low-income families.4630    In the Research and Technology (R&T) account in the President's4631budget, HUD will support States by providing research findings on what4632works and through sharing of model documents between States as States4633create them to support transition from existing HUD agreements with4634housing providers to State or local agreements with housing providers.4635HUD R&T funds would also be used to facilitate peer learning between4636the States.46374638                                 ______46394640               Questions Submitted by Senator John Hoeven4641    Question. North Dakota's State and local housing entities utilize4642HUD and other Federal funding to facilitate public-private4643partnerships. This leveraging ensures maximum efficiency of taxpayer4644dollars.4645    Can you discuss how the Fiscal Year 2026 budget request supports4646these types of public-private partnerships?4647    Answer. HUD has strong partnerships to support housing and economic4648development around the country, including with faith-based4649organizations. The 2026 budget supports the Center for Faith (formerly4650the Center for Faith-Based and Community Initiatives), which serves as4651the Department's liaison between faith-based and community4652organizations, HUD program offices, and the White House Faith Office.4653This office assists in developing and coordinating HUD and the4654Administration's policy agenda affecting faith-based and other4655community programs and initiatives and optimizes the role of such4656efforts in communities. The budget also proposes new Implementation4657Support to States which would provide tools, templates, and supports to4658guide States in designing and launching innovative rental assistance4659programs.4660    Question. Are there steps HUD can take to streamline any4661administrative burdens that programs under FHA may place on loan4662servicers like the North Dakota Housing Finance Authority?4663    Answer. HUD is looking at all programs, systems, regulations, and4664sub-regulatory guidance to reduce burden for our stakeholders, and we4665stand ready to assist your North Dakota stakeholders.4666    Question. How will the Department's Fiscal Year 2026 budget request4667support elderly populations that rely on HUD's rental housing4668assistance programs?4669    Answer. The President Budget maintains HUD's commitment to4670protecting our most vulnerable elderly and disabled citizens. This4671budget would prioritize rental assistance for these families. At the4672same time, HUD will also maintain our commitment to promoting self-4673sufficiency and economic independence by adopting a common-sense time4674limit that will encourage able-bodied residents to move up and out of4675assisted housing.46764677                                 ______46784679               Questions Submitted by Senator Jerry Moran4680    Question. Delinquency rates for FHA have increased, and FHA4681recently announced changes to its loss mitigation program.4682    While FHA premiums are a key tool to improve affordability, how is4683HUD evaluating the tradeoff between providing cost relief to borrowers4684and ensuring the Mutual Mortgage Insurance Fund remains well-4685capitalized in the event of future stress?4686    Answer. FHA remains focused on striking the right balance between4687supporting affordable and sustainable homeownership while safeguarding4688the long-term strength of the MMI Fund. FHA's recent updates to its4689loss mitigation program are aimed at helping homeowners stay in their4690homes while addressing increases in delinquency and re-default rates.4691We recognize that broader financial pressures, including the resumption4692of student loan repayments for many FHA mortgagors, may contribute to4693additional strain on household budgets and increase the risk of4694mortgage delinquencies. Combined with ongoing uncertainty in the4695housing market and the broader economy, these factors reinforce the4696need for careful, data-driven stewardship of the MMI Fund.4697    Question. Will HUD consider further reductions to its mortgage4698insurance premiums to expand credit access for first-time homebuyers4699and low-to-moderate income borrowers?4700    Answer. HUD is not currently considering a reduction to FHA4701mortgage insurance premiums as it continues to monitor the performance4702of the MMI Fund and evolving economic conditions. Ensuring the Fund4703remains well-capitalized is critical to FHA's ability to support future4704borrowers and respond effectively in times of stress.4705    Question. FHA multifamily production has dropped more than 40% in4706the last several years.4707    What are your plans to modernize the program and bring private4708sector developers back into building rental housing?4709    Answer. There are many factors that impact multifamily production,4710including interest rates, available land, and local land use4711requirements. The administration has taken a comprehensive review of4712staffing, programs, systems, regulations, and sub- regulatory guidance4713to reduce administrative burden. Additionally, since January 20, 2025,4714HUD implemented the following to modernize the program, streamline4715processing, and bring private sector developers back into building4716rental housing: Published FR-6522-N-01 Federal Register Notice4717proposing across-the-board MIP reductions which are necessitated by a4718sharp rise in construction costs and mortgage interest rates. Published4719Mortgagee Letter 2025-11 Annual Revisions to Base City High-Cost4720Percentage and High-Cost Areas Annual Indexing of MAP Guide's4721Substantial Rehabilitation and Large Loan Risk Mitigation Thresholds.4722Implemented Risk Based Underwriter Training to improve consistency and4723efficiency. Implemented The Single Underwriter Model to streamline and4724shorten HUD review times.47254726                                 ______47274728           Questions Submitted by Senator Kirsten Gillibrand4729    Question. To make commercial building conversions possible and4730unlock the massive amount of new housing we need in this country, large4731scale zoning and land use de-regulation is necessary. In your4732confirmation hearing you said the Federal Government has a role in4733encouraging States and local governments to reduce regulations and4734barriers, and I agree with you. Yet the FY26 budget request eliminates4735the PRO Housing grant program, which is designed to do exactly that.4736    How specifically will you incentivize State and local governments4737to remove their legal and regulatory barriers to housing production4738without the PRO Housing program?4739    Answer. PRO Housing was first authorized in FY2023. Twenty-one4740awards were funded in June 2024 at $85 million in aggregate. Eighteen4741awards were funded in January 2025 at $100 million in aggregate. These4742figures represent full appropriations for their respective fiscal4743years. The awards are slated to fund a wide variety of housing planning4744and development activities. These activities were developed by the4745State and local government applicants as part of their applications.4746However, housing planning and development take years to complete. Thus,4747the effectiveness and impact of this new program remains to be seen.4748    Further, while office to residential conversions can be subject to4749zoning and land-use regulations, they are also subject to innate4750construction challenges. Office buildings are generally not designed4751for residential occupancy. Office conversions often require the4752redesign and reconstruction of interior spaces and structures. Other4753challenges include significant rework of existing building systems,4754including plumbing, electrical, heating, ventilation and air4755conditioning, lighting, window size and placement, sound reduction and4756insulation, and fire protection systems.4757    Meanwhile, taxpayer dollars are a precious resource. Opportunity4758zones and low-income housing tax credits have proven to be real drivers4759for change. One of the President's earliest Presidential Memoranda4760recognized the need to ``lower the cost of housing and expand housing4761supply'' and deregulation is a key Administration priority, outlined by4762the Executive Order 12866, Unleashing Prosperity Through Deregulation.4763The budget supports deregulation in the housing market and HUD's4764commitment to expand the affordable housing supply to unlock4765homeownership housing opportunities for the American people, including4766homeownership opportunities. HUD looks forward to working together with4767States and local governments to identify other ways to stimulate4768housing supply and break down the barriers holding housing production4769back.4770    Question. How specifically does the budget request support State4771and local deregulation efforts?4772    Answer. HUD is undertaking a regulatory review, with a focus on4773reducing the burdens we put on communities, grantees, and developers.4774We are working to make HUD a better partner. The Budget request4775includes funding for research and demonstrations in the Office of4776Policy Development and Research (PD&R) focused on deregulation in the4777housing market, increasing housing supply, and lowering housing costs.4778This work will build upon PD&R's ``Eliminating Regulatory Barriers to4779Affordable Housing: Federal, State, Local and Tribal Opportunities''4780report, published during the President's first term.4781    Our proposed State Rental Assistance Program will remove the4782multiple layers of overlapping programs and the rules that accompany4783them, allowing each State to take its own path and provide rental4784assistance in the way that best meets their needs. In that process, HUD4785will encourage States to reduce and remove regulatory barriers. States4786that retain barriers will see other States' grants going further and4787making more progress. This is the kind of competition that will lead to4788real, organic deregulation instead of top-down mandates and edicts.4789    Question. How specifically does the budget request carry out the4790Federal deregulatory work this Committee has encouraged under both4791Democratic and Republican administrations?4792    Answer. Deregulation is a key Administration priority, outlined by4793the Executive Order 12866, Unleashing Prosperity Through Deregulation.4794The budget supports deregulation in the housing market and HUD's4795commitment to expand the affordable housing supply to unlock housing4796opportunities for the American people, including homeownership4797opportunities.4798    Question. The House-passed reconciliation bill expands the Low-4799Income Housing Tax Credit (LIHTC). However, one third of LIHTC deals4800rely on HUD programs to actually pencil out and make these ``public-4801private partnerships'' work. The FY26 budget request eliminates all of4802those HUD programs.4803    Congress goes along with the budget proposal to eliminate HOME,4804CDBG, and the current rental assistance programs, what are the4805potential ripple effects on the LIHTC program?4806    Answer. LIHTC projects are typically built with a variety of local4807government financing. While HOME, CDBG, and Federal rental assistance4808are currently used in LIHTC transactions, they are not the sole source4809of gap funding and many LIHTC projects are completed without the use of4810those funding sources. Due to the interest of private developers and4811equity providers in the LIHTC program, these transactions will continue4812as a valuable source of low income housing.4813    Question. By accepting the budget request, how much housing will be4814built that is affordable to very low-income households?4815    Answer. The current system of rental assistance programs has been4816dysfunctional for a long time, wasting taxpayer dollars and4817artificially driving up housing costs for all through government4818subsidies, all while stifling self-sufficiency and economic4819independence for residents.4820    When I came to HUD, I committed to taking inventory of our programs4821and processes to find out what is and isn't working well for taxpayers4822and those who depend on our programs. It's time to take a different4823approach--the Washington approach of one size fits all for communities4824does not work.4825    What I have found is a rental assistance system full of waste,4826fraud, and abuse; inefficiencies and bloated administrative costs;4827deteriorating public housing units; and a rent structure that punishes4828work and marriage among residents.4829    What we propose is indeed transformational--a State-based formula4830grant which would encourage States to have skin in the game for funding4831and design of their own rental assistance programs based on their4832unique needs and preferences, without heavy-handed interference from4833Washington.4834    The proposal also maintains HUD's commitment to protecting our most4835vulnerable elderly and disabled citizens. This budget would prioritize4836rental assistance for these families. At the same time, HUD will also4837maintain our commitment to promoting self- sufficiency and economic4838independence by adopting a common-sense time limit that will encourage4839able-bodied residents to move up and out of assisted housing.4840    Question. HUD is required by law to ensure its assisted properties4841are safe and in good repair. Over the years, this Committee has4842invested in an inspection standard modernization effort that began4843under Secretary Carson, and the Appropriations Committees have worked4844with HUD to dig out of a massive inspection backlog. Money is not an4845issue here. HUD currently has over $110 million for inspections. HUD4846chose to cancel one of its property inspection contracts, before having4847a plan in place for how HUD would maintain oversight of property4848conditions.4849    Mr. Secretary, will you commit to getting inspections back on track4850and on schedule as quickly as possible?4851    Answer. HUD currently has awarded several contracts to support4852HUD's mission to ensure housing units and properties meet National4853Standards for the Physical Inspection (NSPIRE). The work we are doing4854on IT modernization and upgrading HUD's technology systems will help4855these inspections work more efficiently.4856    Question. Will you commit to increasing the number of in-house4857inspectors?4858    Answer. HUD is prioritizing inspections and will continue to focus4859on bringing in inspectors via contract or Federal inspectors. We will4860keep all options open.4861    Question. Will you commit to inspecting all failing properties at4862least once a year?4863    Answer. HUD prioritizes inspecting high risk properties identified4864as Troubled and is exploring ways to reduce the regulatory burden to4865re-inspect High Performers every 3-years.4866    HUD has completed 8,834 of its 11,335 targeted inspections as of4867July 17, 2025. The remaining inspections for 2025 plus the 2,6394868backlog are ordered, scheduled, underway or under review.4869    Question. When PHAs are in violation of statutes or regulations for4870systemic, long-standing, or severe issues, they often require4871extraordinary levels of expertise and resources to remediate4872performance deficiencies and improve the quality and safety of housing4873for residents. Under possession or administrative receivership, HUD4874assumes responsibility for both the governance and daily management of4875a PHA's public housing and voucher programs.4876    How many PHAs are currently in receivership?4877    Answer. Five PHAs remain in HUD possession: Alexander County4878Housing Authority of Cairo (IL), since 2016, Highland Park (MI) Housing4879Commission, since 2021, Irvington (NJ) Housing Authority, since 2022,4880Indianapolis (IN) Housing Authority, taken into HUD possession in April48812024, and Atlantic City (NJ) since 2025.4882    Question. How many PHAs in receivership does the Department plan to4883return to local control in FY2025?4884    Answer. In FY2025 the Housing Authority of the City of Slidell was4885returned to local control so it's no longer in HUD's possession.4886    Question. How have the staffing levels and organizational4887structures of the Office of Prevention, Recovery and Transformation and4888Office of Field Operations changed since January 20, 2025?4889    Answer. The Office of Field Operations took approximately a 31%4890reduction while the Office of Prevention, Recovery and Transformation4891took a 22% reduction.4892    Question. Under your leadership, how will HUD manage and oversee4893PHAs that are troubled and in default of their annual contributions4894contracts?4895    Answer. This is a priority for HUD. HUD plans to utilize the4896expertise from throughout the organization to focus on troubled PHAs4897and hold them accountable sooner and ensure effective and appropriate4898oversight. This will allow HUD to provide direct operational oversight4899early, creating solutions that will ensure residents are living in safe4900and healthy homes.4901    Question. Mr. Secretary, I am concerned with the impact President4902Trump's tariffs are having on housing affordability. The National4903Association of Home Builders estimate tariffs are adding nearly $11,0004904to the average cost of a new home. Home insurance rates could jump by4905another 11 percent. All of this will inevitably increase rents, and as4906rents increase, so will homelessness.4907    Mr. Secretary, based on your experience working for a major housing4908developer, will the Administration's tariff policies make housing4909construction and maintenance more expensive or less expensive?4910    Answer. The Trump Administration is implementing revisions to4911tariff policies to increase economic and national security. The4912Administration's view is that in the short run foreign producers will4913reduce prices to offset about 3/4 of the tariffs. Recent evidence has4914in fact shown that the prices of imported goods have been stable or4915falling since the beginning of this Administration's current term. In4916the long run, tariffs will stimulate increased domestic production of4917building materials which will ultimately lead to lower prices due to4918economies of scale and reduced reliance on imports.4919    Question. What are you doing to help public housing authorities and4920affordable housing developers address these higher costs, especially4921insurance?4922    Answer. Rising insurance costs are a pressing concern for housing4923stakeholders and the residents they serve. That's exactly why we have a4924proposed a paradigm shift through the creation of a new State-based4925formula rental assistance grant that will encourage States to have skin4926in the game for funding and design of their own rental assistance4927programs based on their unique needs and preferences, without heavy-4928handed interference from Washington. Under the proposal, the States4929will be in the best position to negotiate and leverage the cost of4930insurance for their jurisdiction. These reforms will go a long way4931towards cutting down onerous costs.4932    In addition, the cost of insurance is driven by many factors, all4933of which are out of the control of HUD. That being said, our4934Multifamily FHA Office has taken steps to assist owners and lenders in4935addressing these costs, including using other available tools to assist4936owners. Another way HUD is working to address these higher costs is the4937proposed elimination of the Green and Energy Efficient Mortgage4938Insurance Premium (MIP) category which standardizes all MIP rates at49390.25% within FHA's multifamily housing programs.4940    Question. In 2024, on a bipartisan basis, Congress authorized HUD4941to run the Continuum of Care (CoC) competition on a 2-year cycle so4942that CoC programs don't have to re-apply for funding every year. This4943approach would cut down on red tape, and eliminates nearly 115,0004944hours of administrative work to fill out new applications. We can all4945agree these hours would be better spent on improving services and4946outcomes for homeless individuals and families.4947    Mr. Secretary, will you commit to a 2-year competition cycle for4948CoCs for FY2024 and FY2025, instead of issuing a new NOFO this year?4949    Answer. On July 3, HUD sent out a letter informing CoCs to prepare4950for a FY2025 competition focused on treatment and recovery, reducing4951unsheltered homelessness, reducing returns to homelessness, and4952increasing employment income. The 275,000 people living on our streets4953and American taxpayers deserve the careful stewardship of resources to4954address homelessness.4955    Question. Will you commit to a 2-year competition cycle for FY20264956and FY2027?4957    Answer. HUD acknowledges the administrative burden of the CoC4958program for communities and for HUD staff and is taking inventory of4959how to best streamline the process. HUD does not have the authority to4960run a 2-year CoC competition in 2026 and 2027.4961    Question. According to the Department of Government Efficiency4962(DOGE) website, HUD has terminated or cancelled at least 3 leases for4963office space in two States and the District of Columbia.4964    Please provide a detailed list of all leases that have been4965terminated or cancelled by the Department between January 20, 2025 and4966the date of receipt of this question. This list should include: the4967location (including address) of the leased building or office space;4968the date on which the existing lease was to expire prior to the4969termination or cancellation; the date on which the existing lease will4970end as a result of the termination or cancellation (i.e. when it will4971no longer be used by the Department); the amount of any early4972termination or cancellation fees; the number of staff whose duty4973station was the leased building or office space as of January 20, 2025;4974where the staff whose duty station was the leased building or office4975space will report to following the termination or cancellation; and4976whether the Department will consolidate or co-locate the staff whose4977duty station was the leased building or office space in a building or4978office space currently leased or owned by HUD.4979    Answer. To date, HUD has not initiated any lease terminations.4980    Question. According to the DOGE website, Federal agencies have4981terminated or cancelled countless contracts, but the website4982intentionally goes out of its way to provide the information in the4983least useful manner.4984    Please provide a detailed spreadsheet of all contracts that have4985been terminated or cancelled by HUD between January 20, 2025 and the4986date of receipt of this question. This spreadsheet should include the4987following for each contract: Program office, Source of funding for the4988contract, Recipient name, Purpose of the contract, Amount originally4989awarded and/or approved for obligation, Contract period of performance,4990Rationale for why the contract was no longer necessary, and Whether the4991contract has since been reinstated, and if so, whether the contract is4992still listed on the DOGE website as of the date of receipt of this4993question.4994    Answer. HUD is reviewing all contracts for efficiency and4995effectiveness to accomplish good government goals. When certain4996contracts are found not to accomplish HUD's mission with economy,4997efficiency, and effectiveness, action is taken. HUD will continue to4998deliver on its critical functions, mission to serve rural, Tribal, and4999urban communities and statutory responsibilities.5000    Question. Please provide a list of all advisory committees, panels,5001task forces, and commissions that were funded and operational in fiscal5002year 2024. Indicate those that are mandated by law and those that are5003discretionary, the funding level of each and the expiration date of the5004most recent charter.5005    Also list each advisory committee, panel, task force, and5006commission that have been terminated or cancelled by the Department5007between January 20, 2025 and the date of receipt of this question, as5008well as those the Department proposes to operate in fiscal year 2026,5009with the proposed budget for each.5010    Answer. No committees, panels, task forces, or commissions mandated5011by law have been terminated or disbanded by HUD between January 20,50122025 and July 16, 2025.5013    Please see the chart below for the committees and panels the5014Department intends to operate in FY26, along with the proposed budget.50155016----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------5017                                                                                                       Est. FY265018                                           Mandated by  Law or                             FY24 Cost     Cost5019                   Name                       Discretionary      Charter Expiration Date  (values in  (values in5020                                                                                          thousands)  thousands)5021----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------5022Housing Counseling Federal Advisory           Mandated by Law             June 11, 2026         $815         TBD5023 Committee (HCFAC)5024----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------5025Manufactured Housing Consensus Committee      Mandated by Law        September 30, 2026         $991        $6665026 (MHCC)5027----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------5028Cityscape Panel                                 Discretionary    N/A. New Charter to be          $24         TBD5029                                                                  developed by new PD&R5030                                                                            leadership.5031----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------5032MTW Research Federal Advisory Committee       Mandated by Law              May 30, 2026          $12         TBD5033----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------5034Tribal Intergovernmental Advisory               Discretionary    The charter is ongoing          $75         TBD5035 Committee (TIAC)                                                      until terminated5036----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------50375038    Question. Please provide an update on any plans or planning the5039Department has to reorganize the Department or its program offices.5040    Answer. At this point, there has been discussion about realigning a5041small number of program office functions to increase effectiveness and5042efficiency of those programs. There has also been discussion of how to5043provide administrative support functions more efficiently across the5044Department. However, no action has been taken on any of these5045initiatives at this time.5046    Question. Please provide a list of all political and Presidential5047appointees employed by the Department as of the date of receipt of this5048question. This list should include the name and title for each5049political and Presidential appointee and the program office in which5050such staff is employed.5051    Answer. Political appointees are listed through the OPM Plum Book5052consistent with the practices of prior administrations.5053    Question. Please provide the name, title, and office of employment5054for each employee that is working at the Department as part of the DOGE5055team as of the date of receipt of this question, as well as their job5056description. Please specify if they have been hired as full-time HUD5057employees or are Special Government Employees, and whether any5058additional DOGE team members have been or will be detailed to the5059Department.5060    Answer. HUD's DOGE Task Force is composed of HUD employees.5061    Question. Please provide a list of all IT systems, subsystems, or5062IT contracts decommissioned or terminated in FY 2024, FY2025 through5063the date of receipt of this question, and any planned over the next5064year. For each such system, subsystem, or contract, provide a5065description of the program or function supported, any plan for5066replacing that functionality, and the cost for each of the past 35067fiscal years.5068    Answer. The Office of the CIO is currently conducting a 120-day5069evaluation of the information technology (IT) platforms, applications5070and systems used to support programs at HUD. OCIO's goal is to develop5071an IT roadmap that integrates technology with enterprise architecture,5072cybersecurity, and data protection requirements and that will support5073the agency's mission. Our goal is to adopt best practices from across5074industry and the Federal landscape to ensure optimal functionality and5075performance. By collaborating with various stakeholders, including5076program offices, technology providers, and other government entities,5077we will devise a comprehensive and efficient strategy. Additionally, we5078are prioritizing cybersecurity and data protection in line with5079legislative mandates and executive orders, ensuring that HUD systems5080are fortified against potential threats.P5081    Question. Please provide the total number of Fair Housing and Equal5082Opportunity investigations, settlements, closures, and dismissals that5083occurred in FY 2024 and FY 2025 as of the date of receipt of this5084question. This list should be categorized by State and should include5085the basis of the discrimination alleged in each complaint and whether5086the complaint was referred to the Department of Justice.5087    Answer. By way of summary, in 2024, the relevant totals were as5088follows:50895090  --Total number of Investigations: 8,4235091  --Total number of Settlements: 1,9085092  --Total number of Closures: 8,1375093  --Total number of Dismissals: 4,3175094  --Total number of Referrals to the DOJ: 1550955096    In 2025, the totals so far are as follows:50975098  --Total number of Investigations: 6,0825099  --Total number of Settlements: 1,3365100  --Total number of Closures: 6,3175101  --Total number of Dismissals: 3,3825102  --Total number of Referrals to the DOJ: 251035104                                 ______51055106              Questions Submitted by Senator Patty Murray5107    Question. Mr. Secretary, you went on TV to spread misconceptions5108about the ``welfare state'' and said 50 percent of households that5109receive HUD funding have no one working. This is a blatantly misleading5110statement.5111    Nearly 60 percent of HUD-assisted households are headed by a senior5112or person with a disability. True or false?5113    Answer. In 2024, the proportion of HUD-assisted renter households5114headed by a person aged 62 or older or a person with disabilities was511561%.5116    Question. The majority of work-able households do indeed work. True5117or false?5118    Answer. As a point-in-time, roughly 60% of non-elderly, non-5119disabled households had some wage income in 2024. That means 40% had no5120wage income in 2024. For non- elderly, non-disabled tenants in housing5121assistance 3 years or longer, only 42% were consistently employed over5122that 3-year time period, while 37% were in and out of the workforce,5123and 21% did not work at all in those 3 years.5124    Question. 9 out of 10 HUD-assisted households include seniors,5125people with disabilities, or have jobs. True or false?5126    Answer. False, a more correct statement would be ``more than 8 out5127of 10 households include seniors, people with disabilities, or have5128jobs.'' We estimate approximately 85% of all households are working,5129disabled or elderly. These figures are based on data reported to HUD by5130Public Housing Authorities and multifamily property owners on two5131forms, the HUD-50058 (or public housing and vouchers) and HUD- 500595132(for multifamily assisted) forms which capture details on HUD assisted5133tenants, including age, disability, and employment for each member of5134the household.5135    Question. The median length of stay on HUD assistance is around 45136or 5 years, and statistics on the average length of stay statistics5137(which you frequently use) are skewed by the high number of assisted5138seniors and persons with disabilities who cannot work. True or false?5139    Answer. This chart provides data from December 2024 for current5140average (mean) and median tenant length of stay in assisted housing51415142------------------------------------------------------------------------5143                                           Mean (years)   Median (years)5144------------------------------------------------------------------------5145Working age households without                       7.8             5.05146 disabilities...........................5147Older adults or people with disabilities            10.5             7.35148All Households..........................             9.5             6.35149------------------------------------------------------------------------51505151    Question. My colleagues and I sent you letters on February 16 and5152February 20 on staffing cuts and actions that DOGE had taken up to that5153point. I received a response on June 3 with little to no answers to the5154questions posed in these letters. The Committee needs responses with5155real information to be able to carry out our Constitutional duty to5156oversee the funds that Congress provides.5157    Please respond to all 19 questions asked in these letters and5158specifically provide the actual data requested in those questions. The515919 questions in these letters are as follows:5160    How many probationary employees were terminated--by office,5161division, and branch?5162    Answer. Since January 20, 2025, HUD has terminated 83 probationary/5163trial period employees from the following organizations:51645165------------------------------------------------------------------------5166                                                            Employees5167                     Program Office                         Terminated5168------------------------------------------------------------------------5169Community Planning and Development (CPD)...............               15170Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity (FHEO)....              155171Field Policy and Management (FPM)......................              125172Government National Mortgage Association (GNMA)........               25173Housing (HSNG).........................................               45174Administration (ADMIN).................................               95175Chief Financial Officer (OCFO).........................               35176Chief Information Officer (OCIO).......................               25177General Counsel (OGC)..................................              145178Policy Development and Research (PDR)..................               25179Public and Indian Housing (PIH)........................              195180------------------------------------------------------------------------51815182    Question. What factors did HUD consider in determining which5183probationary employees would and would not be terminated on February518414?5185    Answer. HUD's leadership in each HUD program office identified5186which probationary employees in their offices would be retained and5187which would be terminated, ensuring that top performing probationary5188employees supporting critical programs were retained.5189    Question. Were there any exceptions for offices that already lack5190sufficient capacity to address HUD's legal obligations, statutory5191mandates, and for the purposes of public safety, law enforcement, and5192security?5193    Answer. Yes. Program office leadership determined which of the5194probationary employees in their offices would be retained and which5195would be terminated, ensuring that top performing probationary5196employees supporting critical programs were retained.5197    Question. What steps did the Department take to ensure the5198continuity of programs for families and communities prior to5199terminating hundreds of employees?5200    Answer. HUD's program office leadership determined which of the5201probationary employees in their offices would be retained and which5202would be terminated and endeavored to ensure continuity of programs for5203families and communities.5204    Question. What role did you personally play in directing and5205reviewing employee lists vis-`-vis the DOGE team and vis-`-vis the5206political appointees leading each office component?5207    Answer. Program office leadership determined which of the5208probationary employees in their offices would be retained and which5209would be terminated, ensuring that top performing probationary5210employees supporting critical programs were retained.5211    Question. How much notice was provided to terminated employees?5212    Answer. Each probationary employee was given a written termination5213notice informing them of the effective date annotated on the memorandum5214for that same day.5215    Per Title 5, Chapter 1, Subchapter A, Part 11.5e, ``Before an5216agency terminates the service of an employee serving a probationary or5217trial period, it shall notify such employee in writing as to the5218effective date of the action.''5219    Question. If terminations were conducted under 5 C.F.R.5220Sec. 315.804, what justification was provided to employees as the5221reason for their termination?5222    Answer. The only termination conducted under 5 C.F.R. Sec. 315.8045223cited the justification that the employee displayed an inability to5224perform their duties.5225    One additional termination for an excepted service employee under a5226trial period cited conduct reasons. The remaining 81 probationary/trial5227period terminations were conducted under Civil Service Rule XI,5228established by Executive Order 14284.5229    Question. Consistent with the staffing review you are conducting in5230response to the February 11 executive order, please provide HUD's5231comprehensive list of the functions performed by each office that are5232mandated by statute or related to public safety and law enforcement, as5233well as the current number of staff associated with those functions.\1\5234---------------------------------------------------------------------------5235    \1\ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/5236implementing-the-presidents-department-of- government-efficiency-5237workforce-optimization-initiative/5238---------------------------------------------------------------------------5239    Answer. The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD),5240a Cabinet-level agency created in 1965 (42 U.S.C. 3532-3537), is5241responsible for national policy and programs that address America's5242housing needs, improve and develop the Nation's communities, and5243enforce fair housing laws. HUD accomplishes its mission through5244component organizations and offices that administer programs which are5245carried out through a network of regional and field offices and5246partnerships with other Federal agencies, State and local grantees, and5247private sector, philanthropic and non-profit organizations.5248    HUD works to ensure Americans have access to fair, affordable5249housing, and opportunities to achieve self-sufficiency, thereby5250strengthening our Nation. It does that through mortgage insurance and5251mortgage security guaranty that makes homeownership possible for5252millions of Americans, housing and homeless assistance programs that5253reduce and resolve homelessness, community targeted block grants that5254help build and repair housing and infrastructure for strong5255communities, and enforcement of civil rights laws, among others.5256    HUD serves over 6.2 million renters through programs administered5257by its program offices in the Office of Public and Indian Housing5258(PIH), Office of Multifamily Housing, and the Office of Community5259Planning and Development (CPD). In 2024, the Federal Housing5260Administration (FHA) served more than 790,000 Americans buying homes,5261refinancing their mortgage, or accessing home equity to age in place5262through the Single Family forward and reverse mortgage insurance5263programs. Over 82 percent of FHA-insured forward purchase transactions5264by loan count, or 498,363 mortgages, went to first-time homebuyers.5265    Question. For the employees who have accepted the deferred5266resignation offer, what is the estimated cost to taxpayers to pay those5267employees for not working through the end of the year?5268    Answer. The estimated cost to pay employees on the Deferred5269Resignation Program (DRP) through the end of the year is nearly $2205270million, but that cost will be more than offset by outyear savings from5271a smaller and more efficient workforce better aligned to HUD's core5272mission. The out year annual savings to taxpayers from HUD's new5273workforce footprint is estimated to be approximately $400 million.5274    Question. The Committees on Appropriations intentionally funds each5275HUD program office separately to support program execution and5276fulfillment of HUD's mission. How are the costs of the deferred5277resignations and planned reductions in force ``necessary expenses'' and5278consistent with appropriation law?5279    Answer. HUD is focused on ``right-sizing'' our staffing levels to5280meet the needs of HUD's mission, and to be good stewards of taxpayer5281dollars. Appropriations for salaries and expenses are properly5282available for those ongoing efforts to address agency human resources5283needs, including the use of deferred resignation, potential reductions5284in force, and other necessary and appropriate tools.5285    Question. How many individuals are currently part of HUD's DOGE5286Task Force? Please provide the names of all Task Force members and5287whether they are considered employees of HUD or any other Federal5288agency.5289    Answer. HUD's DOGE Task Force is composed of HUD employees.5290    Question. What are the specific components of the $260 million in5291contracts that you described in your February 11, 2025, interview on5292The Charlie Kirk Show? Please provide a list of all contracts that DOGE5293employees have identified as wasteful and the justification for5294cancellation.5295    Answer. HUD is detailed and deliberate about every dollar spent to5296serve rural, Tribal, and urban communities. We ended the business-as-5297usual posture and eliminated contracts that do not further HUD's5298mission. It is our duty to be good stewards of taxpayers' dollars,5299identify and eliminate waste, fraud and abuse, and better serve the5300American people.5301    Question. Do members of the DOGE Task Force have access to any non-5302public HUD information, including data systems, contracting systems,5303personnel records, or other legal records? Does this include5304proprietary Tribal enrollment data submitted for Native American5305Housing Assistance and Self-Determination Act (NAHASDA) funding?5306    Answer. The task force is composed of HUD employees.5307    Question. Relating to Tribes, Tribes do not submit any proprietary5308Tribal enrollment data to HUD. All Tribal enrollment data that is5309submitted to HUD is currently publicly available online at HUD's Indian5310Housing Block Grant formula website.5311    What steps have you taken to protect Americans' data and ensure5312compliance with the Privacy Act?5313    Answer. HUD will continue to comply with all applicable laws5314regarding the privacy and security of personal identifiable5315information.5316    Question. What are the objectives of the HUD DOGE Task Force and5317how long will the Task Force be in place?5318    Answer. The task force, composed of HUD employees, is examining how5319to best maximize HUD's budget and ensure all programs, processes and5320personnel are working together to advance the purpose of the5321department.5322    Question. Has there been any pause or delay in disbursing or5323obligating HUD funds, including delays in signing grant agreements,5324since January 20, 2025? Please provide a detailed accounting of any5325pauses or delays.5326    Answer. HUD will continue to administer its grant programs5327consistent with all applicable laws and regulations.5328    Question. Has HUD cancelled--or does HUD intend to cancel--the5329Green and Resilient Retrofit Program, including terminating or failing5330to enter into awards or contracts?5331    Answer. HUD has terminated various technical assistance contracts5332associated with the GRRP. The One Big Beautiful Bill Act has rescinded5333all unobligated balances appropriated under Section 30002 of the5334Inflation Reduction Act. Consequently, HUD cannot enter into new awards5335or contracts with GRRP funds. The awards which were obligated under5336Section 30002(a)(1) prior to January 20, 2025, remain in place and,5337pursuant to the Court's order in Woonasquatucket River Watershed5338Association et al v USDA et al, HUD is processing transaction materials5339submitted to the Department and is disbursing funds in response to5340appropriate construction draw requests.5341    Question. Please explain in detail any plans to reduce HUD staffing5342below the level of staff employed at the agency on January 20, 2025,5343including:5344    Current or planned changes in staffing by HUD Office and the reason5345for any change, including retirement, participation in a Deferred5346Resignation Program, or other actions; The number of staff that would5347be present in each HUD Office after planned changes; and whether any5348programs or functions of HUD would be reduced or eliminated.5349    Answer. About 30% of HUD's workforce elected to participate in5350voluntary downsizing incentive programs such as in the Deferred5351Resignation Program, Voluntary Early Retirement Program, or Voluntary5352Separation Incentive Program. HUD leadership is assessing if any5353additional rightsizing actions are needed, and if so, what those are.5354    Question. Are there any programs, functions, or offices you plan to5355eliminate at HUD? If so, please provide a list of those programs,5356functions, or offices. If not, please detail how you intend to perform5357HUD's critical functions and prevent mismanagement of funds with the5358proposed staff reductions.5359    Answer. At this time HUD is assessing its staffing and functions to5360determine what additional reductions, if any, will be made. The5361Department is exploring the use of technology to support critical5362workforce needs and will prioritize mission critical work and oversight5363to prevent mismanagement of funds.5364    Question. One of your first official acts as Secretary of HUD was5365stopping the enforcement of the Equal Access rule, which provides5366universal access to life-saving shelter, regardless of a person's5367gender identity. For months, a proposed revised rule has been listed on5368OMB's website as ``pending,'' but no one has seen it.5369    Mr. Secretary, what is the status of the proposed rule?5370    Answer. The intent of the statement ordering HUD to cease all5371enforcement of the rule is meant to comport HUD policies with the5372president's executive orders, particularly EO 14168, Defending Women5373From Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth to the5374Federal Government.5375    Question. Does HUD agree that people in crisis should have quick5376and safe access to emergency assistance?5377    Answer. HUD is committed to supporting localities in providing5378immediate homelessness services and shelter to address the crisis on5379our streets. The President's proposed budget does just that, by5380providing $4-billion in funding for the Emergency Solutions Grant5381program to administer emergency and short-to medium term assistance.5382    Question. Will you provide at least 60 days for public comment so5383that the people who would benefit and be harmed by it can weigh in?5384    Answer. HUD will follow all applicable legal requirements when5385publishing regulatory actions.5386    Question. In March, HUD and DHS entered into an unprecedented5387memorandum of understanding regarding data sharing.5388    What specific information is HUD sharing with DHS?5389    Answer. HUD will provide appropriate data pursuant to requests5390supported by law enforcement investigations managed by DHS.5391    Question. What steps is HUD taking to protect the privacy of the5392individuals and families in its programs?5393    Answer. HUD will continue to comply with all applicable laws5394regarding the privacy and security of personal identifiable5395information.5396    Question. Mr. Secretary, in your written testimony you claim to5397have ``identified $260 million in savings for the American people'' and5398shared that you ``cancelled $4 million in DEI contracts.'' This5399Committee asked your staff for the details on these savings and5400cancellations, but has received no response. I'm deeply concerned by5401the lack of transparency and accountability on what you are cutting and5402how it is impacting communities in our States.5403    Please provide the full details in writing to the Committee on what5404makes up the $260 million in savings and $4 million in cancelled DEI5405contracts.5406    Answer. HUD is detailed and deliberate about every dollar spent to5407serve rural, Tribal, and urban communities. We ended the business-as-5408usual posture and eliminated contracts that do not further HUD's5409mission. It is our duty to be good stewards of taxpayers' dollars,5410identify and eliminate waste, fraud and abuse, and better serve the5411American people.5412    Question. According to the DOGE website, Federal agencies have5413terminated, cancelled, or reduced funding for countless grants, but the5414website intentionally goes out of its way to provide the information in5415the least useful manner.5416    Please provide a detailed spreadsheet containing all grants that5417have been terminated, cancelled, or reduced in funding by the5418Department between January 20, 2025 and the date of receipt of this5419question. This spreadsheet should include the following information for5420each grant:5421    Program office, Grant program, Source of funding for the grant,5422Recipient name, Amount originally awarded, Amount approved for5423obligation, If/how the scope of work has changed, Rationale for why the5424grant was no longer necessary or reduced in funding, and Whether the5425grant has since been reinstated, and if so, whether the grant is still5426listed on the DOGE website as of the date of receipt of this question.5427    Answer. The Department is responsible for ensuring our grantees and5428contractors are in compliance with the President's Executive Orders.5429When certain grants are found not to accomplish HUD's mission, action5430is taken. We're looking forward--not back--and investing in programs5431that deliver the greatest impact for the American people. We invite you5432to visit https://doge.gov to learn more about information listed on the5433DOGE website.54345435                                 ______54365437               Questions Submitted by Senator Dick Durbin5438    Question. Secretary Turner, in a recent interview, you were asked5439about the vision and purpose of the Department of Housing and Urban5440Development. You responded, quote, ``HUD's mission is to serve the most5441vulnerable people in our country. We meet people where they are.'' In5442the same interview, you acknowledged that our Nation has a shortage of54437 million affordable housing units. That is correct-we are short 7.15444million affordable housing units in the United States, including more5445than 442,000 affordable housing units in Illinois.5446    Secretary Turner, listening to this interview, it sounds like we5447agree on a great deal, but then I see President Trump's Fiscal Year5448(FY) 2026 Budget Request, which calls for severe cuts to nearly every5449HUD program. This includes a $27 billion cut for Housing Choice5450Vouchers, project-based rental assistance, public housing, and housing5451for seniors and people with disabilities; a nearly $300 million cut to5452HUD's Healthy Homes and Lead Hazards program, which protects families5453from the devastating impacts of lead poisoning.5454    Mr. Secretary, how do you reconcile what you have said about5455serving the Nation's most vulnerable populations, meeting them where5456they are, with this 44 percent cut to HUD?5457    Answer. The current system of rental assistance programs has been5458dysfunctional for a long time, wasting taxpayer dollars and5459artificially driving up housing costs for all through government5460subsidies, all while stifling self-sufficiency and economic5461independence for residents.5462    When I came to HUD, I committed to taking inventory of our programs5463and processes to find out what is and isn't working well for taxpayers5464and those who depend on our programs. It's time to take a different5465approach--the Washington approach of one size fits all for communities5466does not work.5467    What I have found is a rental assistance system full of waste,5468fraud, and abuse; inefficiencies and bloated administrative costs;5469deteriorating public housing units; and a rent structure that punishes5470work and marriage among residents.5471    What we propose is indeed transformational--a State-based formula5472grant which would encourage States to have skin in the game for funding5473and design of their own rental assistance programs based on their5474unique needs and preferences, without heavy-handed interference from5475Washington.5476    The proposal also maintains HUD's commitment to protecting our most5477vulnerable elderly and disabled citizens. This budget would prioritize5478rental assistance for these families. At the same time, HUD will also5479maintain our commitment to promoting self-sufficiency and economic5480independence by adopting a common-sense time limit that will encourage5481able-bodied residents to move up and out of assisted housing.5482    Question. Around 35 million homes have lead-based paint, impacting5483almost 30percent of all housing units. Lead-based paint was banned in54841978-nearly 47 years ago. And yet, families with young children are5485still exposed to lead and its well-known health hazards. Even at very5486low levels, lead exposure damages a child's brain and nervous system,5487resulting in slowed growth and development, learning and behavior5488problems, and hearing and speech issues. The financial consequences of5489childhood lead exposure are estimated to be around $84 billion, and it5490will take decades for the existing HUD programs that address lead in5491homes to reach all the children at risk of lead poisoning, particularly5492as many communities already struggle to access resources and coordinate5493remediation efforts. President Trump's FY26 Budget Request called for5494just $49 million for HUD's Healthy Homes and Lead Hazards program, a5495nearly $296M decrease from FY25.5496    Given that the financial consequences of childhood lead exposure5497are estimated to be around $84 billion in lost wages, health care, and5498other services, can you explain to the Committee how this cut would5499keep our kids safe?5500    Answer. HUD recognizes that its lead safety programs are not scaled5501to reach all homes and children on their own, given that, as noted,5502around 35 million homes have lead-based paint (and that HUD has also5503found that around 29 million homes have one or more significant lead-5504based paint hazards). HUD's lead hazard reduction program can be used5505to not only address lead paint hazards directly, but also to leverage5506private funding and prompt market forces. As more lead-safe housing is5507created, more landlords and homeowners may be motivated to address lead5508paint hazards in their units to realize increased property values5509associated with lead hazard control in a competitive market. HUD funded5510research has shown this in at least one study and we will continue to5511prioritize this with available funds.5512    In 2026, HUD will continue implementing approximately 210 lead5513hazard reduction grants from previous fiscal years, which will continue5514to serve as models for leveraging private funding and prompting market5515forces.5516    Question. How far do you expect this $49 million to go in5517remediating these homes, and what other initiatives is HUD pursuing,5518including cross-cutting initiatives with other agencies?5519    Answer. HUD will use the estimated $273.2 million in unobligated5520balances for grants in 2026. Given this, the President's Budget does5521not request new budget authority for the Lead Hazard Reduction program.5522    HUD is continuing its cross-cutting lead safety initiative on5523making and keeping HUD- assisted housing lead safe through5524implementation of the Department's Lead Safe Housing Rule by the HUD5525program offices and their grantees. HUD is also continuing its long-5526standing interagency collaboration with EPA and CDC and other Federal5527agencies, to explore, understand, and act together to improve5528children's environmental health and safety. Initiatives include those5529to reduce children's exposure to lead sources, identify lead-exposed5530children and improve their health outcomes, communicate more5531effectively with external partners, and support and conduct critical5532studies on reducing lead exposures and health risks.5533    Question. Does HUD currently have the staff to complete its mission5534to keep kids safe from lead poisoning?5535    Answer. Yes. The Office of Lead Hazard Control and Healthy Homes5536(OLHCHH) has been assigning staff, within their existing position5537descriptions, to grant-based activities to keep children safe from lead5538poisoning. OLHCHH is working with HUD's support offices to increase5539their level of support to cover functions lost, and to automate5540processes that were previously more manual. Future OLHCHH hires will5541continue this adjustment in workload priorities.5542    Question. Public housing serves a critical role in housing some of5543our most vulnerable citizens. For many, it is the only the option they5544have for shelter. These are seniors, people living with disabilities,5545and low-income families with children. After decades of disinvestment,5546our public housing stock has fallen into disrepair. President Trump's5547FY26 Budget Request, however would not provide funding for the Public5548Housing Capital Fund.5549    Secretary Turner, how would you evaluate our Nation's public5550housing stock? What is your plan to stop our existing public housing5551units from continuing to fall into disrepair, since the Administration5552refuses to fund its maintenance?5553    Answer. The Department believes that States are in the best5554position to make sound decisions about the delivery of affordable5555housing in their jurisdictions. Under the State Rental Assistance5556Proposal, States will have the flexibility to facilitate capital5557investment in properties where it makes sense to invest in them5558through: Obtaining mortgage financing that will be unlocked because the5559properties will no longer be subject to a Federal declaration of trust;5560Providing tax credit and bond financing; Providing local financial5561support; Allowing properties to have more flexibility; and, Potentially5562develop other creative solutions once freed from most Federal5563oversight.5564    Bottom line--Washington needs to get out of the way and allow5565States to flourish! States will also have the freedom to discontinue5566support for properties that are not cost effective to operate or are5567not worth the investment in relation to other options to provide5568affordable housing.55695570                                 ______55715572                Questions Submitted by Senator Jack Reed5573    Question. The Family Self-Sufficiency (FSS) program has a proven5574record of success: 34% of FSS graduates no longer need Federal rental5575assistance within 1 year of leaving the program, while nearly 10% of5576graduates purchase their own home. That's why Senator Britt and I have5577introduced legislation, S. 970, the Helping More Families Save Act,5578which would expand FSS.5579    Given that a rhetorical theme of the Department of Housing and5580Urban Development's (HUD) budget request is supporting self-5581sufficiency, why does your budget propose eliminating the successful5582FSS program?5583    Answer. HUD's State Rental Assistance Program proposal includes5584transformational program requirements, such as time limits, that will5585help able-bodied HUD-assisted residents achieve true self-sufficiency.5586In addition, HUD encourages communities to work with State and local5587governments, local non-profits, the private sector, and faith- based5588organizations to incentivize self-sufficiency among HUD-assisted5589residents according to their specific circumstances.5590    Question. HUD's budget request would eliminate rental assistance5591programs and cut total rental assistance funding by $26.7 billion--a559242% cut. HUD data shows around 10 million low- income Americans are5593currently served by these programs.5594    Has HUD analyzed how many individuals currently assisted by HUD5595will become homeless if program funding is cut by over 40%?5596    Answer. The current system of rental assistance programs has been5597dysfunctional for a long time, wasting taxpayer dollars and5598artificially driving up housing costs for all with government5599subsidies, all while stifling self-sufficiency and economic5600independence for residents.5601    When I came to HUD, I committed to taking inventory of our programs5602and processes to find out what is and isn't working well for taxpayers5603and those who depend on our programs. It's time to take a different5604approach--the Washington approach of one size fits all for communities5605does not work.5606    What I have found is a rental assistance system full of waste,5607fraud, and abuse; inefficiencies and bloated administrative costs;5608deteriorating public housing units; and a rent structure that punishes5609work and marriage among residents.5610    What we propose is indeed transformational--a State-based formula5611grant which would encourage States to have skin in the game for funding5612and design of their own rental assistance programs based on their5613unique needs and preferences, without heavy-handed interference from5614Washington.5615    The proposal also maintains HUD's commitment to protecting our most5616vulnerable elderly and disabled citizens. This budget would prioritize5617rental assistance for these families. At the same time, HUD will also5618maintain our commitment to promoting self- sufficiency and economic5619independence by adopting a common-sense time limit that will encourage5620able-bodied residents to move up and out of assisted housing.5621    Question. HUD did not begin finalizing Continuum of Care (CoC)5622contracts with Rhode Island awardees until the end of May. This was5623just a few weeks before some contracts, and the homeless assistance5624services they provide, were due to expire. Many Rhode Island CoC5625contracts with expiration dates later this year have still not been5626finalized. As you know, these are CoC awards that HUD announced months5627ago.5628    Will you commit to me that HUD will finalize all of Rhode Island's5629CoC contracts before any of these contracts expire this year?5630    Answer. On January 17, 2025, the Department announced $3.6 billion5631in CoC Program awards for nearly 7,000 projects across the country, and5632additional funding for CoCs affected by major disasters that received5633an extension to the original application deadline of October 30, 2024,5634was announced on March 21, 2025. Final grant agreements for all awarded5635projects were made available on March 20, 2025, and HUD prioritized5636executing grant agreements for recipients with existing renewal grants5637expiring within the first 4 months of the calendar year. The Department5638has continued to prioritize processing grant agreements for the FY245639CoC awards.5640    Question. In 2024, on a bipartisan basis, Congress authorized HUD5641to run the CoC competition on a 2-year cycle so that CoCs would not5642have to re-apply for funding every year. This change cuts down on red5643tape by eliminating nearly 115,000 hours of administrative work CoCs5644need to fill out extremely similar applications.5645    Will you commit to a 2-year competition cycle for CoCs for FY 20245646and FY 2025, instead of issuing a new NOFO this year?5647    Answer. On July 3, HUD sent out a letter informing CoCs to prepare5648for a FY2025 competition focused on treatment and recovery, reducing5649unsheltered homelessness, reducing returns to homelessness, and5650increasing employment income. The 275,000 people living on our streets5651and American taxpayers deserve the careful stewardship of resources to5652address homelessness.5653    Question. HUD's budget request and your testimony in front of the5654Senate Appropriations Committee advocate for States and localities to5655be given more autonomy within our Nation's housing assistance programs.5656But HUD's budget request would eliminate the Community Development5657Block Grant (CDBG) program, which has long provided flexible grants5658that States and localities use for housing, economic development, and5659other local needs at their own discretion.5660    How does eliminating flexible CDBG funding give localities more5661control?5662    Answer. States and localities are in the best position to know how5663to tackle their unique housing and community development challenges--5664not Washington. The President's Budget reflects a right-sizing of HUD5665to limit the size, scope and spending of Federal programs. Many of5666these housing and community development activities are better funded5667and administered at the State and local level. The President's Budget5668advances this local-first approach for housing and community5669development.5670    Further, CDBG is poorly targeted and has been used for activities5671that the Federal Government simply should not be funding, such as5672improvement projects at a brewery, a plaza for concerts, and skateboard5673parks. For example, the Town of Greenwich in Connecticut's famously5674affluent ``Gold Coast'' does not need Federal grants, yet it received5675nearly $4 million in CDBG funding in the last 5 years and spent it on5676wasteful projects like theater arts programming for students and public5677swimming pool renovations.56785679                                 ______56805681              Questions Submitted by Senator Brian Schatz5682    Question. Infrastructure costs for housing, such as water and sewer5683piping and electrical wiring, is far higher in remote areas and for5684low-density housing.5685    How does HUD plan to address infrastructure costs for housing on5686Interior Department land?5687    Answer. Through HUD's and Interiors' respective expertise, the5688Joint Task Force for Federal Land for Housing will help both identify5689where the housing needs are most pressing, and locations that are best5690suited to meet those needs. Our agencies will work together to ensure5691we support the infrastructure required for development.5692    Question. Other Federal agencies such as the Department of Defense5693have land in built-up areas close to existing infrastructure.5694    In addition to its work with the Interior Department, will HUD5695prioritize multifamily housing on other Federal lands?5696    Answer. HUD is committed to creating additional housing and will5697explore opportunities to do so on various Federal lands, including5698utilizing FHA insurance programs.5699    Question. The Indian Housing Block Grant Program provided 40,3095700homes in FY2024. According to Census data, these homes housed 137,0005701people, including more than 37,000 children.5702    With the $875 million proposed in the president's budget, how many5703people will lose housing assistance on Tribal lands and Hawaiian5704Homelands?5705    Answer. HUD recognizes that the Indian Housing Block Grant program5706is the largest source of funding for Tribal housing programs. The $1.15707billion provided last year was a dramatic increase from the program's5708traditional funding levels of less than $700 million. The President's5709budget proposal for the program this year ensures that families5710currently receiving assistance under the IHBG program will continue to5711do so. We expect that this level of funding will allow Tribal grantees5712to continue to maintain and operate their existing housing stock. With5713that said, we are working hard with our Tribal partners and our Tribal5714Advisory Committee to identify ways to streamline burdensome5715regulations so that they can build housing and infrastructure for their5716communities more efficiently and cost-effectively. For example, we are5717actively soliciting feedback from Tribal leaders on how we can5718streamline NEPA and other environmental requirements to ensure that we5719are taking a reasonable and balanced approach to housing development.5720    With respect to the Native Hawaiian Housing Block Grant program,5721the budget recognizes a greater role for State and local governments,5722the private sector, and nonprofits to address housing and community5723development needs across the Nation. The budget also recognizes that5724the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands has accumulated a large balance5725of unexpended funds and can continue to operate in FY26 using5726unexpended NHHBG funds.5727    Question. HUD has still not unfrozen more than 100 grants for the5728renovation of affordable housing properties across 40 States and5729territories that were awarded through Comprehensive cohort of the Green5730Resilient Retrofit Program (GRRP), despite a court order on April 15.5731Other GRRP funding, such as the Jack Hall Waipahu project in the5732Elements cohort, have also not been delivered.5733    What is HUD's plan and timeline for unfreezing the Comprehensive5734GRRP projects so these rehab projects can move forward?5735    Answer. HUD is continuing to process GRRP awards consistent with5736the court order in Woonasquatucket River Watershed Association et al v5737USDA et al.5738    Question. Specifically, what is HUD's timeline to deliver funds5739under the grant agreements it signed for $1.68 million awarded to the5740Ainakea Elderly Housing Project and $750,000 awarded to Jack Hall5741Waipahu in Hawaii?5742    Answer. Pursuant to the Court's order in Woonasquatucket River5743Watershed Association et al v USDA et al, HUD is processing transaction5744materials submitted to the Department in accordance with the GRRP5745governing notice. With regards to the Jack Hall Waipahu Elements award,5746the owner has not submitted the necessary due diligence materials for5747HUD review. HUD cannot proceed to disburse funds unless the awardee5748submits the closing documentation package described in the GRRP5749governing notice, the package is reviewed, and the package is5750determined to comply with the notice. The owner should reach out to5751staff at the Office of Recapitalization at GRRP@HUD.gov with any5752questions. With regards to the Ainakea Elderly Housing Project, HUD is5753considering options for next steps.57545755                                 ______57565757            Questions Submitted by Senator Chris Van Hollen5758    Question. The budget notes that the new State Rental Assistance5759Program formula will be determined by the Secretary, taking into5760account assistance provided in 2025 and ``other factors.''5761    What other factors are under consideration?5762    Answer. HUD is considering a range of factors, as we described in5763our Congressional Justifications, the program will distribute block5764grants to States by formula. It will require that States: 1. Prioritize5765the rental assistance needs of the elderly and disabled; 2. Consider5766currently assisted households; and 3. Incentivize self-sufficiency5767among non-elderly, non-disabled residents, through the implementation5768of 2-year time limits, as well as any other appropriate means.5769    The formula would consider data on prior-year occupied housing5770units receiving rental assistance and could favor assistance provided5771for households with elderly or disabled residents over non-elderly non-5772disabled households. The formula could also be gradually adjusted to be5773more representative of the relative needs of each State, and in5774accordance with changing needs over time. HUD may also consider how to5775best incentivize State contributions.5776    Question. Can you provide the formula that will be used to make5777state allocations, and the allocation that would be made to Maryland if5778the full request is funded?5779    Answer. See above.5780    Question. The existing rental assistance programs are carried out5781by local Public Housing Agencies. The Department envisions eliminating5782those programs in favor of a block grant carried out by States.5783    How might a State set up and administer a program and get rental5784assistance out the door to families without any transition time?5785    Answer. Many States currently have a State-level housing finance5786agency. This agency typically has a range of housing programming,5787including the Low-income Housing Tax Credit program, and many States5788already currently have a State-wide public housing agency (PHA). HUD5789anticipates that many States likely would leverage their current5790housing expertise to implement the State Rental Assistance Program. HUD5791also anticipates that States may leverage the expertise of local PHAs5792in the development and implementation of the program.5793    Question. Recent reporting has noted severe gaps in the HUD5794workforce after about 2,300 civil servants took the early resignation5795offer. The Washington Post reported that more than 30 HUD Field Offices5796have staffing issues, including 13 that have 2 or fewer employees left.5797These offices administer grants and respond to disasters. A HUD email5798to staff noted, ``In some cases, supervisors are left with no staff, or5799staff are left with no supervisors, or offices are left with nobody to5800keep programs delivered.'' The Post reported that the Department is now5801asking employees to relocate to quote, ``immediately cover skill gaps5802and critical functions.'' Staffers would have to work in person but5803would have to pay their own moving costs.5804    Bloomberg reported that the Office of General Counsel, which5805includes forensic accountants and financial analysts as well as experts5806in housing law, has experienced such a high loss of staff that it is5807``significantly increasing litigation risk and the risk of fraud, waste5808and abuse.''5809    Did the Department consider its operational needs when deciding to5810allow staff to take early resignations?5811    Answer. Yes.5812    Question. What are the ``skills gaps and critical functions'' that5813the Department is currently trying to fill with relocation offers?5814    Answer. It varies office by office, but relocation offers are not5815the primary way gaps are being filled. Assessments are ongoing to5816identify capable staff members who already have the skills and5817competencies to perform the duties of those whose departures led to5818these gaps.5819    Question. As the Department works to fill vacancies, is it still5820providing full pay and benefits to the people who took the deferred5821resignation offer?5822    Answer. Yes.5823    Question. The budget cuts Section 4 by 60% and eliminates the Self5824Help Home Ownership Program. In the Appropriations Committee hearing in5825the House, you noted that the budget returns authority to the States to5826identify programs that work. You also said that the State Rental5827Assistance Program block grant could not be used for this purpose, and5828that there would not be additional block grant programs to support the5829functions of the Self Help Home Ownership Program.5830    If the States want to fund these types of programs, would they have5831to fund them entirely with state funds?5832    Answer. The States are uniquely situated to know their own State-5833level needs and to identify ways to meet them within their own budgets.5834The President's Budget right-sizes the Federal Government and returns5835it to a proper balance whereby the States can develop localized5836solutions that fit their needs. The President's budget reflects the5837Administration's choice to discontinue funding for such programs in5838favor of States developing their own locally driven public-private5839programs with strong private leverage.5840    Question. The HUD Inspector General has noted that HUD has faced5841challenges meeting its requirement to complete discrimination5842investigations within 100 days, in part because of limited staff and5843training, staff workload, and complexity of the cases. To help address5844the delays, HUD hired 230 new employees from FY20 to FY22, and, at the5845time of the most recent IG audit, noted it needed an additional 885846staffers to meet the necessary level. Since January 2025, the Office of5847Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity (FHEO) has lost 35% of its5848workforce, and this does not account for probationary employees that5849HUD attempted to fire and whose case remains in litigation. The FY265850proposed budget cuts Fair Housing activities by 70%.5851    Given the fact that the IG has identified lack of staffing as one5852reason that FHEO saw investigation delays, how will HUD meet its5853statutory requirements with these cuts?5854    Answer. HUD will continue to rigorously enforce the fair housing5855laws and will at all times make a good faith effort to comply with any5856applicable statutory obligations. The goal of any workforce reduction5857is not a diminution of services to the public but instead it is focused5858on achieving our mission objectives with greater efficiency.5859    Question. FHEO's discrimination complaint procedures have changed5860in recent months, limiting the avenues for complaints to be submitted5861and discontinuing hotlines, intake numbers available in English and5862Spanish, and email addresses previously used for filing complaints.5863    How will you ensure that the public is aware of the complaint5864process, it is accessible to all, and any barriers that arise are5865mitigated?5866    Answer. Information about our complaint process is made available5867to the public on the HUD.gov website at the following URL: https://5868www.hud.gov/contactus/file-complaint.58695870                          SUBCOMMITTEE RECESS58715872    Secretary Turner. Thank you, ma'am.5873    Senator Hyde-Smith.. The hearing was adjourned.5874    [Whereupon, at 4:26 p.m., Wednesday, June 11, the5875subcommittee was recessed, to reconvene at a time subject to5876the call of the Chair.]58775878       LIST OF WITNESSES, COMMUNICATIONS, AND PREPARED STATEMENTS58795880                              ----------5881                                                                   Page58825883Collins, Senator Susan, U.S. Senator from Maine, Questions5884  Submitted by...................................................    735885  Durbin, Senator Dick, U.S. Senator from Illinois, Questions5886  Submitted by...................................................    855887Duffy, Hon. Sean, Secretary, Department of Transportation:5888    Prepared Statement of........................................     75889    Questions Submitted to.......................................    375890    Statement of.................................................     15891    Summary Statement of.........................................     55892Gillibrand, Senator Kirsten, U.S. Senator from New York:......... 43,765893    Questions Submitted by5894    Statement of.................................................  3.5558955896Hoeven, Senator John, U.S. Senator from North Dakota, Questions Submitted5897 by............................................................... 38,745898Hyde-Smith, Senator Cindy, U.S. Senator from Mississippi:5899    Opening Statement of..........................................  1,535900    Questions Submitted by........................................ 37,7359015902 Moran, Senator Jerry, U.S. Senator from Kansas, Questions Submitted5903 by................................................................   7559045905Murray, Senator Patty, U.S. Senator from Washington, Questions Submitted5906 by................................................................ 40,815907Reed, Senator Jack, U.S. Senator from Rhode Island, Questions Submitted5908 by................................................................ 48,8759095910Schatz, Senator Brian, U.S. Senator from Hawaii, Questions Submitted5911 by................................................................ 48,8859125913Turner, Hon. Scott, Secretary, Department of Housing and Urban5914  Development:5915    Prepared Statement of..........................................    595916    Questions Submitted to.........................................    735917    Statement of...................................................    535918    Summary Statement of...........................................    575919 Van Hollen, Senator Chris, U.S. Senator from Maryland, Questions Sub-5920   mitted by ......................................................  50,8959215922                              [all]