S.Hrg.119-147

1[Senate Hearing 119-147]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                                                        S. Hrg. 119-14756                     NOMINATIONS OF PEDRO ALLENDE,7                     SEAN PLANKEY, CHRISTOPHER FOX,8                          AND EDWARD O'CONNELL910=======================================================================1112                                HEARING1314                               before the1516                              COMMITTEE ON17               HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS18                          UNITED STATES SENATE1920                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2122                             FIRST SESSION2324                               __________2526         NOMINATIONS OF PEDRO ALLENDE TO BE UNDER SECRETARY FOR27          SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND28        SECURITY; SEAN PLANKEY TO BE DIRECTOR, CYBERSECURITY AND29          INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND30        SECURITY; CHRISTOPHER FOX TO BE INSPECTOR GENERAL OF THE31       INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY, OFFICE OF THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL32         INTELLIGENCE; AND EDWARD O'CONNELL TO BE AN ASSOCIATE33                       JUDGE, D.C. SUPERIOR COURT3435                               __________3637                             JULY 24, 20253839        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov4041                       Printed for the use of the42        Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs4344    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]4546                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE474861-440 PDF                   WASHINGTON : 20264950        COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS5152                     RAND PAUL, Kentucky, Chairman53RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin               GARY C. PETERS, Michigan54JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma             MAGGIE WOOD HASSAN, New Hampshire55RICK SCOTT, Florida                  RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut56JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri                JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania57BERNIE MORENO, Ohio                  ANDY KIM, New Jersey58JONI ERNST, Iowa                     RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona59ASHLEY MOODY, Florida                ELISSA SLOTKIN, Michigan6061                William E. Henderson III, Staff Director62                  Christina N. Salazar, Chief Counsel63                      Andrew J. Hopkins,  Counsel64               David M. Weinberg, Minority Staff Director65     Christopher J. Mulkins, Minority Director of Homeland Security66              Claudine J. Brenner, Minority Senior Counsel67                Nomi Rosen, Minority Research Assistant68                     Laura W. Kilbride, Chief Clerk69                   Ashley A. Gonzalez, Records Clerk7071                            C O N T E N T S7273                                 ------74Opening statements:75                                                                   Page76    Senator Paul.................................................     177    Senator Peters...............................................     278    Senator Moreno...............................................     379    Senator Blumenthal...........................................     580    Senator Moody................................................     781    Senator Scott................................................    1182    Senator Hassan...............................................    1283    Senator Ernst................................................    1584    Senator Lankford.............................................    1785    Senator Hawley...............................................    1986    Senator Slotkin..............................................    2087Prepared statements:88    Senator Peters...............................................    278990                               WITNESSES91                        THURSDAY, JULY 24, 20259293Pedro Allende to be Under Secretary for Science & Technology,94  U.S. Department of Homeland Security95    Prepared statement...........................................    2996    Biographical and professional information....................    3197    Letter from U.S. Office of Government Ethics.................    5998    Responses to pre-hearing questions...........................    6899    Responses to post-hearing questions..........................    94100Sean Plankey to be Director, Cybersecurity and Infrastructure101  Security, U.S. Department of Homeland Security102    Prepared statement...........................................   104103    Biographical and professional information....................   106104    Letter from U.S. Office of Government Ethics.................   122105    Responses to pre-hearing questions...........................   132106    Responses to post-hearing questions..........................   146107Christopher Fox to be Inspector General of the Intelligence108  Community, Office of the Director of National Intelligence109    Prepared statement...........................................   159110    Biographical and professional information....................   161111    Letter from U.S. Office of Government Ethics.................   175112Edward O'Connell to be an Associate Judge, DC Superior Court113    Prepared statement...........................................   182114    Biographical and professional information....................   183115    Responses to post-hearing questions..........................   205116117                                APPENDIX118119The chart submitted by Senator Ernst.............................   210120121                     NOMINATIONS OF PEDRO ALLENDE,122                     SEAN PLANKEY, CHRISTOPHER FOX,123                          AND EDWARD O'CONNELL124125                              ----------126127                        THURSDAY, JULY 24, 2025128129                                     U.S. Senate,130                           Committee on Homeland Security131                                  and Governmental Affairs,132                                                    Washington, DC.133    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 12 p.m., in room134342, Senate Dirksen Office Building, Hon. Rand Paul, Chair of135the Committee, presiding.136    Present: Senators Paul [presiding], Lankford, Scott,137Hawley, Moreno, Ernst, Moody, Peters, Hassan, Blumenthal, and138Slotkin.139140               OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PAUL141142    Chairman Paul. The Committee will come to order. The143Committee meets to consider four nominations. First, Pedro144Allende. Pedro is to be the U.S. Under Secretary for Science145and Technology (S&T) at the Department of Homeland Security146(DHS). Mr. Allende serves as the Secretary of Florida's147Department of Management. He previously served in several roles148in the Executive Branch, including a Deputy Assistant Secretary149at Department of Homeland Security.150    Second is Sean Plankey, to be the Director of Cybersecurity151and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) at the Department of152Homeland Security. Mr. Plankey currently serves as senior153advisor at the department. He's a veteran of the United States154Coast Guard (USCG) and served at the Department of Energy (DOE)155during the first Trump administration.156    Next is Christopher Fox to be the Intelligence Community157Inspector General (ICIG). Mr. Fox currently serves as senior158advisor to the Director of National Intelligence (DNI). He's a159veteran of the United States Air Force (USAF) and previously160operated his own business.161    Last but not least, is Edward O'Connell to be Associate162Judge (AJ) of the D.C. Superior Court. Mr. O'Connell presently163serves as the Chief of Staff and Deputy General Counsel (DGC)164in the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) for the United165States Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) and Defense Nuclear166Facility Safety Board (DNFSB). Prior to joining the IG, he was167a career prosecutor serving in the D.C. U.S. Attorney's Office,168as an Assistant United State's Attorney (AUSA) in Baltimore,169Maryland.170    The witnesses have submitted written statements, and I ask171unanimous consent (UC) to submit letters of support received172for the nominees. Without objection, those will be entered into173the record.174    In the interest of time, I will forego opening remarks, but175I will recognize the Ranking Member, Senator Peters.176177             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PETERS\1\178179    Senator Peters. Thank you Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I am180relieved to see that Paul Ingrassia, the nominee to run the181Office of Special Counsel (OSC), has been pulled from today's182hearing. The Office of Special Counsel is an independent, non-183partisan agency that investigates allegations of prohibited184personnel practices involving Federal employees, including185whistleblower retaliation.186---------------------------------------------------------------------------187    \1\ The prepared statement of Senator Peters appears in the188Appendix on page 27.189---------------------------------------------------------------------------190    Mr. Ingrassia is unqualified for the position, both in191terms of legal experience and given his long record of bigoted192statements. I urge the administration to formally withdraw his193nomination.194    We have a number of nominees for critical roles in the195Department of Homeland Security, the intelligence community196(IC), and the courts in our Nation's capital, before us today.197Sean Plankey is nominated to lead the Cybersecurity and198Infrastructure Security Agency. Mr. Plankey, thank you for199joining us here today. If confirmed, you will be tasked with200overseeing an agency that has been gutted by the Trump201Administration.202    As you know, CISA is the backbone of our Nation's203cybersecurity defense system, protecting Federal networks and204partnering with the private sector. CISA is the only civilian205agency with the infrastructure, the expertise, and the206statutory authority to carry out this critical work.207    Since President Trump's first term, he has worked to208decimate CISA, most recently slashing its workforce by more209than 30 percent, and eliminating key leadership positions. The210administration has also proposed a nearly 20 percent budget cut211for the agency for Fiscal Year (FY) 2026.212    Cyber-attacks are one of the most significant national213security threats our Nation faces, and I am extremely concerned214by this administration's actions that are undercutting CISA's215capacity to defend our Nation.216    We are also considering the nomination of Christopher Fox217to be the Inspector General of the intelligence community, a218role that demands full independence and credibility. This219nomination also deserves scrutiny.220    Mr. Fox's decision to accept a political appointment in the221Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI), even222after he was nominated to serve as Inspector General gives me223pause. Not only is he a senior advisor to the director, but he224is also currently running the Information Management Office225(IMO), which handles the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA),226declassification, and record retentions issues, all matters227that would likely need to have independent review from the228eventual confirmed Inspector General.229    We also have Pedro Allende who is nominated to lead DHS230Science and Technology Directorate. This directorate plays a231critical role in ensuring DHS components have the most reliable232and effective technology to carry out their Homeland Security233missions. The threats we face are getting more complicated each234day, and DHS must have the right tools to address those threats235and keep American safe.236    Finally, we have Edward O'Connell, who is nominated to be237the associate judge of the D.C. Superior Court. The D.C.238Superior Court functions as a State level trial court here in239the Nation's capital. The court handles some of the highest240case volumes in the country and is strained further by extended241vacancies on the bench.242    Every day, judges on the Superior Court decide matters that243impact the freedom, livelihoods and safety of individuals and244families across the District of Columbia. Currently, 15 of the24562 seats on the court are vacant, with two more judges set to246retire in September. These vacancies delay cases and place247serious burdens on the current judges, and I am glad to see the248administration is moving forward with the nominees for this249important role and will help carry out justice in our Nation's250capital.251    I look forward to hearing from all of you here today, hear252more about your experience and how you plan to approach these253very important roles that each of you have been nominated for.254Welcome to the Committee. Thank you, Mr. Chair.255    Chairman Paul. It is the practice of the Homeland Security256and Governmental Affairs Committee (HSGAC) to swear in257witnesses. Will the nominees please stand and raise your right258hand. Do you swear that the testimony you will give before this259Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but260the truth, so help you, God?261    [Witnesses answer in the affirmative.]262    It's a standard practice of the Chair to ask the nominees263the following question. Do you agree without reservation, to264comply with any request or summons to appear and testify before265any duly constituted Committee of Congress if you are266confirmed?267    [Witnesses answer in the affirmative.]268    Chairman Paul. Thank you. You may be seated. We will now269proceed to questions where each Member will have five minutes.270We will start with Senator Moreno.271272              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MORENO273274    Senator Moreno. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and congratulations275to the four of you for this nomination to serve our country.276Thank you for your willingness to serve, by the way. I know277it's a big sacrifice, and certainly all of you will be doing a278great service to your country.279    Mr. Plankey, we will start with you. I enjoyed being with280you. I enjoyed our conversation. The good news is you are not281completely insane, which already makes you dramatically more282qualified than your predecessor. Question for you would be, how283are you going to restore the agency's reputation? Over the last284four years of the Biden administration, we saw an agency that285should have the total trust and respect of the American public286deteriorated into a spying agency on American citizens. How287will you restore the confidence of Americans in that agency?288    Mr. Plankey. Senator, thank you for the question, and thank289you for the opportunity to be here. Extremely honored to be290here and have the opportunity if confirmed to lead the291Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency.292    If confirmed as the leader of CISA, I would seek to restore293CISA to its congressional authorities and focus on the missions294that this body tasked it with, which is securing the Federal295Executive Branch and then securing the critical infrastructure296of the United States.297    Senator Moreno. There is a lot of acronyms that are thrown298here. I am only through 10,000 of them so far. I think we have299200,000 acronyms left to go. Can you explain for the record and300for my colleagues, the difference between CISA the agency,301which you are going to restore back to its original mission we302just described, and CISA 2015, which is set to expire in303September, and what the implications are of not having that304renewed, and how that's very different than the agency that we305just discussed.306    Mr. Plankey. Yes, Senator. CISA the agency is mandated to307follow the congressional direction to secure the Federal308computing Executive Branch, Federal civilian Executive Branch309computer systems, and then also protect the critical310infrastructure of the United States often thought of as the311Nation's Cyber Defense Agency.312    Now, CISA 2015, was the 10-year authorization of313information sharing. That law in particular was actually very314critical for protecting liabilities of sharing information for315business to business and business to government. When somebody316has a cybersecurity breach or concern, they then could share317that information to protect themselves and protect others318without experiencing liability for sharing that information319Senator.320    Senator Moreno. What would be the implications if that was321just led to expire?322    Mr. Plankey. Senator, if that was led to expire, in323particular in the financial sector, who does some of the324largest, most prevalent amount of information sharing, they325would experience difficulties in sharing and community326protection of information security, and then other industries327would as well.328    I would note Senator that Secretary Noem, my boss, she329supports the reauthorization of CISA 2015.330    Senator Moreno. What's your current role in what are you331doing now?332    Mr. Plankey. Yes, sir. I am the senior advisor to the333Secretary, focused on the United States Coast Guard.334    Senator Moreno. Gotcha. Just a little bit of off topic for335just a second. What is the morale among the Coast Guard knowing336that the One Big Beautiful Bill just gave him historic funding?337    Mr. Plankey. Yes, Senator. The morale in the Coast Guard is338very high right now. They received the largest amount of339funding, in $24.59 billion to restore airplanes, ships,340infrastructure, piers, buildings and training centers for the341United States Coast Guard.342    They just hit recruitment numbers of putting 5,200 men and343women in the United States through Training Center Cape May344this year, which is an all-time high that we have not seen345since 2002.346    Senator Moreno. That's great. It's nice to have a commander347in chief that's refocused on the vital role that the Coast348Guard plays, and glad to see those recruitment numbers playing349out. Obviously, representing Ohio, it's got big Coast Guard350presence there. We are seeing that.351    It's just great to see that we have made that historic352investment in the Coast Guard. I wish more of my colleagues on353the other side of the aisle had voted with us on that bill that354gave that historic funding to the Coast Guard. Thank you, Mr.355Chair.356    Chairman Paul. Senator Blumenthal.357358            OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR BLUMENTHAL359360    Senator Blumenthal. Thanks, Mr. Chair. Welcome to all of361our nominees. Thank you for serving our country. Mr. Plankey, I362have a couple of fairly straightforward yes or no questions.363Was the 2020 election rigged and stolen?364    Mr. Plankey. Senator, thank you for your question----365    Senator Blumenthal. It's pretty much a yes or no question.366    Mr. Plankey. Thank you for your question, Senator. I have367not reviewed any of the cybersecurity of the 2020 election.368    Senator Blumenthal. Don't have an opinion on whether the3692020 election was rigged and stolen?370    Mr. Plankey. Senator, my opinion on the election as an371American private citizen is probably not really relevant. But372the electoral college did confirm President Joe Biden sworn373into office.374    Senator Blumenthal. Let me ask you, were there,375``widespread election malfeasance and serious vulnerabilities376with the voting machines'' that changed the election outcome?377    Mr. Plankey. Senator as you know elections are State run378entities and many different sectors of State across the 50379states of the United States pursue different methods to secure380their own elections----381    Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Plankey, my time is limited, so I382am just going to say to you, there ought to be no hesitation in383your answer to these questions. The agency that you have been384nominated to lead, CISA, along with the entire National385Security and Intelligence Community agreed that the election386was secure.387    You are undermining the confidence of the Nation in the388election apparatus, at a time when that credibility is as389important as ever when you are about to lead an agency that has390responsibility for that security. State and elections officers391across the country ran audits and examinations, and on a392bipartisan basis, affirmed that President Trump lost the393election. He won the next election.394    The answer to my questions is no. The 2020 election was not395rigged and stolen. There were no widespread election396malfeasance and serious vulnerabilities, even though President397Trump said there were. Now, I know it is a contentious topic,398but your role in that agency is to be above politics. If you399cannot tell us with conviction and conscience that those400elections were secure, I have very serious doubts about your401ability to lead this agency.402    Let me ask you, if President Trump comes to you and he403demands that CISA falsely claim that the 2026 or 2028 elections404were rigged, what will you do?405    Mr. Plankey. Senator, as a cybersecurity professional,406these are State run elections. I have not reviewed the407cybersecurity posture of law 50 states----408    Senator Blumenthal. With all due respect.409    Mr. Plankey. That's like a doctor who's diagnosing somebody410over the television because they saw him on the news.411    Senator Blumenthal. No, it's like a doctor who has a412patient come to him and is responsible for doing the diagnosis.413It may be a second opinion, but it actually is the414determinative opinion because you are the head of the Federal415agency that oversees the security of our election system for416the entire nation.417    You are telling me in effect, you are just going to dodge,418you are going to jump ship, you are going to evade that419responsibility. I think that answer is completely420unsatisfactory.421    Mr. Plankey. Senator, I did not say that I would dodge or422abate any of my responsibility. I would remind you, Senator,423that CISA is a consent-based cybersecurity agency, and CISA is424postured to respond and support every State across the United425States, and we will gladly and do our due diligence to support426those States across the United States.427    Senator Blumenthal. You seem to not understand the428responsibility of CISA. People turn to this agency for429unbiased, objective science evidence-based expert information,430and you are in effect saying that if President Trump's comes to431you and he says, I want you to say this election was rigged,432you are going to yield to him. Thank you.433    Chairman Paul. When we talk about elections and whether or434not they're rigged or not, I don't think one party or another435is particularly immune to this. There are still people who436believe that the Daily Machine and the mafia in Cook County in4371960. There's some evidence of it. It's a longtime American438tradition, for both parties to question the other party in439elections.440    I will say that in 2016 when Donald Trump won the first441time, Hillary Clinton to this day says that he was an442illegitimate President. Jimmy Carter said he was illegitimate443from the very beginning. They tried to delegitimize Trump. I444would say it's no different.445    In fact, if we are going to criticize Donald Trump for446questioning the 2020 election, we should be equally critical of447Hillary Clinton for questioning the 2016 election. The quotes448are legion. I mean, dozens and dozens of quotes. Dozens and449dozens of interviews. Hillary Clinton, to this day, is450unrepentant in this.451    But it's worse than that. That's just sort of an opinion.452What they ended up doing is using the apparatus of government453to try to delegitimize Trump. They used the apparatus of454government to spread something that was a falsehood, that the455Russians got the election for Donald Trump. He was not456deserving, the people did not vote for him. The Russians did457this.458    It turns out that all of the intelligence reports saying459the Russians, of course, they try to meddle, they meddle every460time in all of our elections. It was judged to be insignificant461and not consequential until it wasn't. Until all the sudden462someone at the top of the of the intelligence community463decided, oh, well, yes, we think Donald Trump's illegitimate.464We are going to spread this throughout government. There465basically was a conspiracy using government and using the power466of the Intel agencies.467    For people who complained, Donald Trump complained about468the 2020 election. My goodness, the Obama administration469planted misinformation throughout government, purposely. They470planted it in lots of different places.471    At one point, John Brennan is asked the question by the472analyst that he has selected, this information Sir, this473dossier, the Steele dossier, is opposition research, and it is474unchecked. It is unverified. Brennan's flippant response was,475yes, it sure sounds like it could be true. Sure, rings true.476This is the head of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)477saying this. They got together and really cooked up something478to delegitimize.479    I really am not that interested in hearing. Oh, Donald480Trump says it. Will you admit the election wasn't rigged?481There's a great book on this. It's called Rigged by Molly482Hemingway. In it, she goes through in great detail the483Democrats disregard. Does anybody remember the Democrats voted484against seating electors? The whole January 6th stuff? They485say, oh, this is unprecedented, Republicans aren't seating the486electors.487    Now, look, I voted to seat the electors. I thought the488argument wasn't a valid argument. But the thing is, Democrats,489including one of the ones who worked, Raskin, to impeach the490President, he voted not to seat the electors in 2016 because he491thought the election was rigged.492    For goodness sakes, let's put this to rest. Both parties493have accused each other of malfeasance. Both parties have494accused the elections of being rigged, and let's just try to495move forward.496    Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Chair, with all due respect,497nothing you have said absolves this witness of a responsibility498to answer these basic questions about the core responsibility499of the agency he's been nominated to lead.500    Chairman Paul. CISA has nothing to do with the elections.501The CISA has nothing to do with the State-run elections.502Senator Moody.503    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Agree to504disagree, I guess, Mr. Senator?505506               OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MOODY507508    Senator Moody. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our509nominees for being here today. I know this is not an easy510process, and we appreciate you standing ready to answer our511questions, and to your families who are here with you and512supporting you, not only today, but after you are confirmed in513these incredibly important roles.514    Public service is not easy, and we understand that and are515grateful to you for the service to our country. I would like to516recognize we did not do introductions for efficiency's sake. If517we were doing them, I would have proudly introduced one of our518nominees today, Pedro Allende.519    Pedro has served the great State of Florida in his capacity520as the Secretary of the Florida Department of Management521Services, which comprises three areas of service, business522technology, and workforce. He oversaw a one billion budget and523workforce of nearly 1,000 employees. He previously served as524Deputy Assistant Secretary for Infrastructure Risk and525Resilience policy with the Office of Strategy Policy and Plans,526at the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.527    In this role, he led policy development to protect U.S.528critical infrastructure against cyber, physical, and natural529threats, while overseeing policy efforts to increase Federal530and State local preparedness response and recovery531capabilities. He's also served as a member of our Florida Cyber532Cybersecurity Council. I have no doubt if confirmed he will533once again serve the United States of America (USA) with great534honor, and we appreciate you stepping up.535    Mr. Allende, if you can quickly, for the position for which536you are nominated to serve now, it will be responsible for537integrating cutting edge technology and reliable scientific538research to support the department's mission of keeping America539safe. Can you give this Committee an example of how in your540role currently as the Secretary of Florida's Department of541Management Services, you utilize new technology to better serve542and protect the people of Florida?543    Mr. Allende. Thank you, Senator Moody for your kind words.544I am honored for the nomination by President Trump and for this545Committee's due diligence in the advice and consent role and to546my family, my wife, behind me especially.547    In Florida, we have had the great opportunity to do548interesting things, is how I describe it. We have had the549opportunity to work not just within government but also expand550outward. The department currently has research agreements with551the University of Florida, University of South Florida (USF),552Florida International University (FIU), and Idaho National553Laboratory (INL) to fill in the gaps where State governments554are not well equipped to provide solutions.555    Some of our innovative work has involved working on things556such as assessments of locks and levy infrastructure and557cybersecurity. Also, we have a project coming up that has been558projected for next year with Idaho National Lab and Florida559International University (FIU) to assess battery technology in560its security, which will include the issue that's been recently561in the news about inverters on solar panels.562    There are just a few of the examples. One example of just563leveraging existing technology has been during Hurricane Ian in564southwest Florida. The Governor and our team as directed ended565up in addition to the traditional effort of bringing mobile566devices called Cellular-on-Light-Truck (COLTs) and Cell on567Wheels (COWs) from the three telecom carriers to reestablish568communications, we felt that there was a need to expand that.569    We had the largest deployment of Starlink satellites 56570hours after landfall to restore connectivity to Floridians to571begin the recovery process. Grocery stores, pharmacies to572establish communications to manage your inventories, and to573bring that service to Floridians in need.574    Senator Moody. Thank you so much, and we look forward to575continuing your great service to the United States of America.576Know a lot of leaders coming out of the great free State of577Florida, and we are proud of you, sir.578    I would like to also turn my attention now to Ed O'Connell.579Welcome. You are nominated to serve on the Superior Court of580the District of Columbia. As a former judge myself for over a581decade, I know what goes into serving in a trial court when you582are dealing with criminal matters, civil matters, family law583matters, probate matters, very important to this country and to584the jurisdiction you will be serving specifically, is585efficiency in court.586    The delay sometimes denies justice to the litigants that587come before it. What is your approach to maintaining efficiency588within a court as a judge?589    Mr. O'Connell. Thank you, Senator. The superior court of590the District of Columbia is extraordinarily overburdened. There591are not enough judges on that court to move the caseload as it592needs to be moved. I view my role as a new judge on that court593as one of the most important things I would have to do is594manage a caseload expeditiously without sacrificing595thoroughness with regard to any one individual case.596    I think the unique training that I have had enables me to597succeed at that role and that training was being an Assistant598United States Attorney in the Superior Court system for almost59920 years. Part of my job as an AUSA, was to efficiently manage600an extraordinarily high caseload without sacrificing the601individualized attention due to any particular case.602    Senator Moody. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chair.603    Chairman Paul. Senator Peters.604    Senator Peters. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Fox you wrote in605your opening statement that you will be 'independent,606impartial, and fair? Which as we discussed in my office, is a607core responsibility of the job of independent counsel. Yet you608accepted a senior advisor position in the Office of the609Director of National Intelligence from Director Gabbard, after610you knew that she had put your name forward for the role of611Inspector General.612    You are also now Acting Chief of the Information Management613Office at ODNI. My question for you sir is, how can we or the614employees of the intelligence community trust that you will615indeed be independent, impartial, and fair when you chose to616work in the very office so that you are nominated to oversee?617    Mr. Fox. Thank you for the question, Senator. Thank you618again for taking the time to meet with me. I appreciate our619conversation. Being a truthful and being independent are my top620priorities as the Inspector General if confirmed. I was chosen621for the role of senior advisor and ultimately for the role of622Inspector General, I believe, because of my reputation for623doing so. I only took this role as senior advisor, which in624reality is just a title.625    My duties have been to perform as Acting Chief of the626Information Management Office, which is overseeing the release627of records to the public for FOIA Requests, Privacy Act and we628have a number of other groups. I am dedicated to transparency629and rebuilding public trust.630    One thing I would like to add is, since day one, the entire631leadership team has understood the importance of that632independence. For that purpose, I have been properly insulated633from any personnel decisions or any significant organizational634decisions to the extent that if I am in a meeting and one of635these topics arises, I will literally leave the room. They have636respected that and supported that effort.637    Senator Peters. You shared with me the same information in638my office, which I appreciated, but it's still, I believe,639raises serious questions about some judgment as to why you640would take that position, given your background. As Senator641Moreno highlighted with his questions, CISA 2015 is a critical642law that provides liability protections to businesses that643share threat information with the Federal Government and each644other.645    These authorities play a key role in coordinating public646private responses to cyber incidents, including the recent647vault and salt typhoon attacks. Mr. Plankey I am pleased with648the answer that you gave to my colleague. It was very thorough.649I think it was pretty clear you fully support the650reauthorization of that legislation as to how critical it is. I651understand Secretary Noem also fully supports the652reauthorization of that as well.653    We are heading toward the deadline here at the end of654September, so we have to take action before that time. Mr.655Chair I know you and I have spoken about this on numerous656occasions, and look forward to working with you in the weeks657ahead as we look at this deadline and trying to get legislation658passed to make sure that those authorities are continued to be659there.660    Thank you for your support. If confirmed, I would hope to661deliver a bill that allows you to continue to work with all of662the partners necessary to provide cybersecurity in this663country.664    Mr. Fox, I am very concerned about Signal Gate, both the665sharing of classified information on commercial messaging app666and the implication that those records have not been retained667as they should have been. In our meeting on Tuesday, you668reiterated that nothing classified was shared because the669Defense Secretary, who is the original classification authority670of the information, has confirmed that the messages were not671classified.672    Yet, just yesterday, after you and I met, the Washington673Post reported that the information Secretary Hegseth shared674came from an email marked secret. You know exactly what that675means. Secret is classified information that should not be676shared with foreign allies.677    My question for you, will it be your stance as IG if678confirmed, that the Secretary can simply retroactively say that679operational battle plans involving men and women in uniform are680not classified, and thus try to avoid the consequences of681sharing them in an unclassified manner?682    Mr. Fox. Thank you for the question, Senator. With my IMO683role, when we review information for classification, a part of684that involves a line-by-line review. If a document is marked685secret, for example it's likely that there are portions within686that document, they may be unclassified entirely. I cannot687speak to this because I am not aware of the facts and688circumstances.689    I would also like to add that National Defense Information690and Department of Defense (DOD) information would be691originating from DOD, and thus DOD would be the appropriate692entity to make any determination for that. That being said, to693answer your question, as IG have confirmed nobody is above the694law, and I am committed to conducting every single activity of695the Inspector General's office in an impartial manner without696fear of favor.697    Senator Peters. Good. Thank you, Mr. Chair.698    Chairman Paul. Senator Scott.699700               OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SCOTT701702    Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chair. First, I thank all of703you for being here. Congratulations on your nominations. Our704country faces numerous threats in the work you are nominated to705do, as essential to supporting President Trump's mission of706protecting American lives and infrastructure against the707threats of Communist China, Russia, and more.708    Under both the Obama and Biden presidencies, we saw our709intelligence community and other agencies weakened and710weaponize against its own citizens, putting Americans at risk.711We have seen policies put in place at undermine the agency's712credibility and attempt to enforce security at the expense of713hardworking Americans.714    Thankfully, we have President Trump back in office. He and715his administration take the threat that Xi Jinping and others716pose her country very seriously, and he knows too well the717experience of intelligence agencies being weaponized for718political purposes. With no one being held accountable.719    Let me ask Mr. Fox the first question. We have known for720years that both the Obama and Biden administrations weaponized721every element of the Federal Government against President722Trump, including the intelligence community. Just last week,723Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard released over724100 declassified documents that she said, provided overwhelming725evidence of a treasonous and conspiracy by senior Obama726officials, administration officials to undermined President727Trump's 2016 election.728    If confirmed, how would you prioritize reviewing the729actions of our intelligence agencies during the 2016730transition? How would you ensure your office's full731independence when investigating current and former senior732government officials?733    Mr. Fox. Thank you for the question, Senator. I share the734priorities of this administration and the director of735rebuilding public trust, and there's a lot involved in that736effort. If confirmed as ICIG, then I will take every action as737appropriate to properly investigate or conduct audits and738inspections as needed, aligned with the national intelligence739priorities as best we can. Of course, consistent with740congressionally directed actions.741    Senator Scott. Based on the evidence Ms. Gabbard put out,742what reforms or safeguards would you advocate to prevent any743future political weaponization of the intelligence community?744    Mr. Fox. That's a complex answer, Senator, and I appreciate745it. Step one would be a zero-based review, if confirmed to746understand the roles and responsibilities within the office,747and make sure we have the right people in the right position748with the right tools and the right intent.749    The ICIG is a cross-cutting office, so it does have the750authority to oversee all 18 IC elements, and I would work with751the ICIG forum to ensure that we are working together as752appropriate and ensuring that the watchers are conducting their753oversight in each element of the IC appropriately and fully.754    Senator Scott. Thank you. My next question is for Mr.755Allende and Mr. Plankey. In May, U.S. Department of Energy756officials found secret communication equipment inside Chinese757made devices like power inverters, which are used throughout758the United States and the world to connect solar panels and759wind turbines to electricity grids. Are also found in760batteries, heat pumps, and electric vehicle chargers.761    The Biden administration recklessly rescinded Trump's first762term Executive Order (EO) that banned Chinese procurement or763involvement in the U.S. power grid. I know this administration764has restored that EO and I have previously filed a bill to765codify that. Does the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) have a kill766switch embedded in our power grid through our use of Chinese767renewable energy infrastructure, like solar panels and Chinese768batteries, and how we combat this and make sure we are not769procuring China Compulsory Certification (CCC) made energy770infrastructure. Mr. Allende if you will, go first.771    Mr. Allende. Thank you, Senator. Thank you for your772question. At present, I am not in the Department of Homeland773Security. I do not currently have any insights into that774matter. If confirmed, however, I look forward to studying that775very deeply with the experts at the directorate of science and776technology.777    I can tell you that based on public reports, that is a778concern that we have had in Florida, and we have taken action.779We have started some work with Idaho National Laboratory to780assess battery technology, which will include the inverters and781solar panels. We previously conducted an operational technology782(OT) security assessment of Florida's locks and levies and the783Florida legislature in the 2023 session banned the use of784Chinese drones, which our department effectuated regulations to785ban those.786    Those were ultimately sent to the University of South787Florida for testing for those very issues that you are788describing. I am just not aware of the results of those tests.789    Mr. Plankey. Senator thank you for your question. I share790the concern of you and my colleague, and we worked together in791the original Trump 45 administration on this very issue. We are792both concerned. I am concerned. If confirmed, that it will be a793priority of mine to remove all Chinese intrusions,794exploitations, or infestation into the American supply chain.795Yes, Senator and I look forward to working with you on that.796    Senator Scott. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.797    Chairman Paul. Senator Hassan.798799              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HASSAN800801    Senator Hassan. I thank you, Mr. Chair and Ranking Member802Peters for holding this important hearing. I thank all of the803nominees for your willingness to serve and congratulations to804you and your families, and I think your families for their805support as well.806    I am going to start with a simple question, and we will go807right down the line from Mr. Allende to Mr. O'Connell. If you808are directed by the President to take an action that would809violate the law, would you follow the President's directive or810follow the law? Mr. Allende.811    Mr. Allende. Senator, thank you for your question. If812confirmed, I find it very unlikely that the President or anyone813acting on his behalf would ever instruct me to break the law. I814do not believe that would ever happen.815    Senator Hassan. But if it did?816    Mr. Allende. If it did as unlikely as that would be, I817would consult with the Office of General Counsel (OGC) as to818the interpretation of the law. If persists, for some reason I819disagreed with the interpretation, I would resign.820    Senator Hassan. Are you committed to following the law or821not?822    Forget for the minute who instructs you to follow the law823or whether there's a difference of opinion. Are you committed824to following the law or not?825    Mr. Allende. I am Senator.826    Senator Hassan. Thank you. That's a yes, Mr. Plankey.827    Mr. Plankey. Thank you, Senator. I share my colleagues'828process that I do not believe the President would ever ask me829to violate the law, but I do believe in upholding the rule of830law. Yes, Senator.831    Senator Hassan. Thank you, Mr. Fox.832    Mr. Fox. Senator, in my professional capacity now, and if833confirmed as ICIG, I will always follow the law.834    Senator Hassan. Thank you, Mr. O'Connell.835    Mr. O'Connell. Thank you, Senator. As a judge on the D.C.836Superior Court, my only job would be to follow the law, and I837could not anticipate any circumstance where anyone, the838President of the United States or anybody else, would try to839influence me to do anything other than follow the law.840    Senator Hassan. I appreciate your commitment to following841the law. I will say to those of you who have just said out loud842that you do not believe or expect the President of the United843States to instruct you to break the law, that reflects a844disconnection from reality. That concerns me. I know you may845have to say those things to satisfy the President or the people846who are watching this hearing on his behalf, but it's an847extraordinary statement given events.848    Now, Mr. Plankey, as you know, CISA helps State and local849governments improve their cybersecurity and protect critical850assets. One of the key programs that supports this goal is the851State and local cybersecurity grant program. This program852provides grants to State and local governments to bolster their853cybersecurity and better protect Americans from hostile actors854and cyber criminals. Unfortunately, this program runs out of855money in September.856    My question to you, Mr. Plankey, is do you support857continued funding for the State and local cybersecurity grant858program? What would the impact be should Congress fail to fund859it?860    Mr. Plankey. Senator, thank you for that question. I861absolutely support State and local grant program for862cybersecurity. I think there's many rural areas of America, and863CISA exists to support all Americans across the United States,864and one of the best ways to do that is through the State and865local grant program.866    Senator Hassan. I appreciate that it's not, in a State like867New Hampshire, 234 cities and towns, many of them very small,868they just do not have the resources. Of course, the bigger869impact, it's not only on each individual city or town or county870but it also the weakest link in cyber impacts everybody. I871would really appreciate working with you on that.872    Mr. Allende, under the 2024 DHS artificial intelligence873(AI) Roadmap, the Science and Technology (S&T) Directorate is874set to build out the infrastructure needed to evaluate the risk875that terrorists and criminals could misuse powerful AI models,876right? So just this past week, OpenAI released a new model that877for the first time, they classified as having a high capability878of producing biological harm, including dangerous pathogens.879    Given these very real risks to our national security, I880would like to hear from you about how you would prioritize881specific types of AI risk as Under Secretary of Science and882Technology, and how would you approach that prioritization?883    Mr. Allende. Senator, thank you for your question. For884background, I am an attorney and a manager. I have a very885strong technical interest, and I study the material, but I am886not a scientist or an engineer. If confirmed, however the887Director of Science and Technology has a number of experts888within that I would consult on this matter.889    I can say that the kinds of models matter, whether its890smart language small language models open and closed. That gets891very granular. I am very happy to work with you and your team892to discuss each of those options and how each one could be893managed in a very granular way.894    Senator Hassan. Are you concerned about the risk that AI895poses?896    Mr. Allende. Senator, thank you for your question. I am. In897Florida, we have actually taken it upon ourselves at the898department to build an AI use policy and to start addressing899those very risks both on the privacy aspects of what can be900disclosed to a model and how to responsibly use a model?901    Senator Hassan. You must have some experience then in902prioritizing what kind of risks you are looking at? My903question, this is urgent. I mean, this is a national security904and public safety matter, and it is an urgent one. We have open905AI saying they have now got an AI that is highly capable of906producing biological harm. This is on our doorstep. It's a907national security issue. Do you feel urgency about it? What's908your plan to make sure that you are focused on the most serious909threats?910    Mr. Allende. Senator, I absolutely feel urgency behind it.911The scope of what the Department of Management Services and912what the Director of Science and Technology were very913different. I cannot relate one to the other.914    Senator Hassan. How are you qualified for the job?915    Mr. Allende. Senator, my background as a lawyer has916involved highly technical matters such as cybersecurity. I917started the cybersecurity practice for my law firm. I have a918Master's in decision information science. I have a long history919of working with very smart folks such as scientists, engineers,920and data analysts, to bring those methodologies to bear on the921problems that we have at the Department of Management Services.922    I am very happy and comfortable working with people much923smarter than I, and enabling them to do the job that they need924to do.925    Senator Hassan. I am over time. I will follow up with you,926but perhaps I can make this observation. This is not927necessarily about how smart people are although that helps.928This is about whether technologists, who are engaged in this929kind of work, understand the risks and are willing to put some930guardrails up and willing to prioritize how we go after making931sure that these risks do not impact our national security and932public safety. Thank you, Mr. Chair.933    Chairman Paul. I think the question of whether we follow934the law is an important question. Obviously, we should always935follow the law. I think what makes it a more difficult question936is we all know that you are not supposed to steal, you are not937supposed to commit fraud, but if the President orders you to938fire 10 percent of your people, is he breaking the law? There939have been accusations made by the minority party that the940President's authorizing people to break the law. So it's a941question, can the President hire and fire people?942    It's gone all the way to the Supreme Court now, and Supreme943Court is siding with them. We have to be careful about accusing944the President and saying, the President's ordering his people945to break the law. Because actually the court so far has sided946with him on that. The court may not side with him on947everything, but that's why we have courts, and it is948complicated.949    When Mr. Allende responds that he would ask the counsel.950He's probably a little bit removed from the President. He has951to ask for counsel on it. If you feel that the President doing952the resigning is sort of ultimately the answer on this, it953isn't. I would just argue not as always as simple as we say--954follow the law--when there's a dispute over the law.955    We are probably going to have more separation of power956issues decided under President Trump because he pushes the957envelope than any President in our history. And you can argue958that's good or bad, but the courts have so far sided with him959on the hiring and firing that that's not illegal.960    Senator Hassan. No. My respectful dissent from some of your961characterizations, Mr. Chair. Thank you.962    Chairman Paul. Senator Ernst.963964               OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ERNST965966    Senator Ernst. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Congratulations967to our nominees for being here today and for your willingness968to serve. We thank your families as well. Mr. Plankey, I am969going to start with you. We have behind me a chart,\1\ and it's970quite lovely here. But it is something symbolic, but it is971important. The blue outer ring and the inner red ring represent972the unity with DHS and the commitment to cut through government973red tape.974---------------------------------------------------------------------------975    \1\ The chart submitted by Senator Ernst appears in the Appendix on976page 210.977---------------------------------------------------------------------------978    However, Federal agencies have been tied up in knots with979outdated technology and many bureaucratic hurdles. Currently,980the Federal Government maintains over 10,000 unique forms and981processes, approximately 125 billion forms annually. That982volume isn't just a paperwork problem; it's a symptom of deeply983antiquated systems that are ranging anywhere from eight to 50984years old. Unfortunately, modernization efforts so often become985boondoggles.986    Take the Bureau of Land Management's (BLM's) attempt to987modernize its oil and gas activity tracking, which ballooned to988three times the projected cost. It was four years late, and it989added 565,000 labor hours resulting in $19 million of990productivity losses. Outdated technology also leaves the991Federal Government dangerously exposed.992    Mr. Plankey, as CISA successfully assists State and local993critical infrastructure to meet current cybersecurity994protections, what will you do to ensure the Federal Government995isn't falling behind while helping others catch up?996    Mr. Plankey. Thank you for that question, Senator. I was997nervous you were going to ask me about the logo as we could998change that if you want. [Laughter.]999    Senator Ernst. We might have to work on that.1000    Mr. Plankey. Roger that.1001    Senator Ernst. After we fix these problems.1002    Mr. Plankey. Yes, ma'am. Senator, one of the ways I like to1003attack the problem as somebody who has worked in private1004industry from startups to fortune 10 companies, I think too1005often we love to focus on how we fix a problem.1006    Basically, when you are fixing something in the private1007sector business you are stopping the bleeding, right? You stop1008the decremental decrease of what you are trying to process. The1009problem is you really actually need to grow or change the1010service, right? You need to make a shift in what you do and1011change the way that you approach the problem set to deliver1012something better, in this case for the taxpayer.1013    When you focus on fix, all you are doing is stopping the1014bleeding. What I would like to focus on, and what I have done1015in my technical experience is wholesale changes. Instead of1016investing more in bad processes and policies or making small1017adjustment, micro changes, in a process that is outdated to1018begin with, we will invest in wholesale changes and move1019forward to deliver better outcomes for the American taxpayer.1020    Senator Ernst. That's outstanding. I appreciate that. Let's1021stop doubling down, spending additional money where we do not1022have to. It's just throwing money out the window. I am going to1023move on to Mr. Fox. Your job ensures whistleblowers can trust1024the system they are reporting into.1025    As you know, last Friday, the Director of National1026Intelligence declassified documents exposing what she called 'a1027treasonous conspiracy, carried out by some of the highest-1028ranking officials in our Nation to weaponize the intelligence1029community against the incoming President of the United States.1030Framing him as being the agent of a foreign government. We know1031today that it was all a made-up lie. This carried real costs.1032    The House of Representative impeached the President in part1033over accusations built on fiction. Taxpayers were stuck with a1034$32 million bill for Miller's witch hunt. Trust in our1035intelligence apparatus was undermined and despite all of this,1036the American people saw through the lies and reelected1037President Trump last November.1038    Let me be clear, weaponizing government against political1039opponents is un-American. Mr. Fox, will you commit to turning1040over every rock, regardless of how uncomfortable or1041embarrassing the truth may be for the intelligence community?1042    Mr. Fox. Thank you for addressing this, Senator.1043Absolutely, that is what I have been asked to do.1044    Senator Ernst. Do you agree that the intelligence community1045should be impartial, apolitical, and never weaponized against1046U.S. citizens or the leaders they choose?1047    Mr. Fox. Absolutely, Senator.1048    Senator Ernst. Thank you very much for your straightforward1049answers. Thank you all very much, and congratulations on your1050nominations.1051    Chairman Paul. Senator Lankford.10521053             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD10541055    Senator Lankford. Mr. Chair, thank you. Thank you all for1056going through the process. It's not a fun process to be able to1057do the preparation, all everything else that you have done, and1058then be able to go through this. I appreciate your dedication1059to the country and your willingness to be able to serve.1060    Mr. O'Connell, I wanted to ask you a question because you1061are getting left alone all the time on this. I want to be able1062to just zero in on it. You have served in officer of the1063Inspector General in the past. You have served as a prosecutor1064in the past. Stepping into one of the roles as a judge here in1065D.C. is an incredibly important role.1066    But my concern is always that people get access to justice.1067One of the challenges that we have had is attorneys are not1068prepared when they walk in and they ask for an extension, they1069ask us for more time. Your judges just keep giving that, the1070person who's trying to get to justice can never get to justice.1071The family that's the victim can never get an answer there1072because everything gets delayed.1073    How are you going to run your courtroom in such a way to be1074able to make sure people actually get to justice in a timely1075manner?1076    Mr. O'Connell. Thank you for the question, Senator. I1077certainly do not take it personally. These are important issues1078that are being addressed. My experience as an Assistant U.S.1079Attorney in the Superior Court division of the of the U.S.1080Attorney's Office here in D.C., I encountered it frequently1081where defense counsel was not prepared for trial, not prepared1082to proceed.1083    I think the judges of the Superior Court, who was1084successful at managing those caseloads, were able to use a1085number of tools to ensure that to hold accountable counsel who1086were unprepared. Certainly, this was done with the interest of1087the clients of those counsel. Judges have to ensure that1088litigants, especially criminal defendants, are adequately1089represented.1090    A number of tools were used by judges. Certainly. when an1091assistant U.S. Attorney would be unprepared, the judge would1092outright dismiss their case. That was a circumstance that1093nobody ever wanted to encounter as a prosecutor. I think it's a1094broader question. I think that you are asking about the volume1095of cases in D.C. Superior Court. It's overwhelmingly1096overburdened. There are, not enough judges and there are too1097many cases, right?1098    Senator Lankford. But there's an expectation that when the1099case comes to the court, the attorneys are prepared, the case1100is going to get heard rather than just one more delay. One more1101delay. If folks are actually ready to be able to get to the1102courtroom, the folks that are there seeking justice can1103actually get it.1104    Mr. O'Connell. That's exactly right.1105    Senator Lankford. I appreciate that. Fox, I want to be able1106to drill down, thank you for stepping in this role as well.1107Your job is a tough one. Your work for Congress, Congress is1108one who established the Inspector General. We have an1109expectation that you are the eyes and the ears of this U.S.1110Congress. To the intelligence community, you also work for the1111White House, and you work for the Office of the Director of1112National Intelligence. Ultimately, you work for the American1113people.1114    Your job is to be able to oversee people that literally, we1115hire them to go steal secrets from other places and be as1116clandestine as possible. That's a tough job to say, we need you1117to go in and make sure that this is being done correctly.1118    Let me ask you a couple questions of that. No. 1 is, we1119cannot have our secrets stolen. If there are processes in place1120that lead to somebody that's a contractor or an individual1121that's hired, that's taking our secrets, part of the1122responsibility, that's the Inspector General, to be able to1123look over our own shoulder, to be able to make sure that we1124have processes in place to prevent that.1125    What are you going to do to make sure our secrets aren't1126being stolen? How are you going to engage in that way?1127    Mr. Fox. Thank you for that question, Senator. I share your1128concern. It's very important across all 18 elements, that we1129are simpatico in this effort to protect our secrets, while also1130maintaining appropriate transparency with the public. That is a1131balancing act in some ways.1132    When it comes to holding individuals accountable for1133leaking information or selling information to a foreign power,1134there are a number of steps that we can take, hopefully to1135deter that activity in the first place. That's something I am1136prepared to look at as the IG. I cannot commit to it now, given1137our many different priorities. I would have to look at the work1138plan and understand the resources we have available and the1139other congressionally directed actions. But I will stand ready1140to address that issue for the entire IC.1141    Senator Lankford. OK. We look forward to Mr. Plankey,1142thanks for stepping into this role as well. The Cybersecurity1143Information Sharing Act of 2015 expires on September the 30th1144of this year. Secretary Noem has asked for its reauthorization.1145What do you see as the challenges that face the Nation if it is1146not reauthorized?1147    Mr. Plankey. Senator, thank you for the question. The CISA1148act of 2015 created before CISA was created, is necessary in1149that it provides the sharing of information from business to1150business and business to government without exposing liability1151to those said parties.1152    A business that has experiences an issue, a breach, detects1153an adversary, that type of information, they can share it1154without feeling pressure of liability across to other1155businesses, so that they may protect themselves and then also1156to the government, so the government may then distribute that1157information in a way that protects the greater good of America.1158That's contained in the CISA 2015 bill.1159    Senator Lankford. Right. But if it expires, what happens?1160    Mr. Plankey. If it expires, they lose the Liability1161Protection Authority Center.1162    Senator Lankford. We will have less of that. OK, sir. Thank1163you.1164    Chairman Paul. Senator Hawley.11651166              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HAWLEY11671168    Senator Hawley. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Congratulations to1169the nominees. Thank you for being here. Mr. Plankey, if I could1170just start with you.1171    One of the most troubling things that we have seen in the1172last few years when it comes to behavior by the government, is1173the effort by the Federal Government to coerce and otherwise1174pressure social media companies to engage in mass censorship of1175private American citizens, across a range of topics,1176Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccines, elections, school1177board meetings.1178    Unfortunately, the agency that you have been nominated to1179lead was right in the thick of it, CISA. So much to that1180agency's shame, I must say, I think in direct violation of the1181First Amendment of the United States, because what the Supreme1182Court has said over and over is the Federal Government cannot1183use private entities to do what the First Amendment bars the1184Federal Government from doing. As you probably know, there's1185been much litigation about this.1186    The discovery in that litigation is damning for many1187agencies in the Federal Government, including CISA. My question1188is, what are you going to do to ensure that CISA gets out of1189the speech regulation business, the surveillance business when1190it comes to private American citizens, and gets back into what1191it's supposed to do, which is actually to keep us safe, not to1192regulate our speech, not to follow us around online, but to be1193stopping cyber-attacks and ensuring cybersecurity.1194    Mr. Plankey. Senator, thank you for that question which I1195believe to be an important one. And so does Secretary Noem and1196President Trump. It is not CISA's job and nor is it in its1197authorities to censor or determine the truths whether it be on1198social media or in any level of media.1199    CISA will not do any of that work will not be a part of any1200of that work. If I am confirmed, I would like to focus CISA on1201what it's mandated to do, and that's to protect the Federal1202Civilian Executive Branch, as well as protect the critical1203infrastructure of the United States. Cybersecurity's a big1204enough problem. We have adversaries at our door, inside our1205house and all over us every day.1206    If confirmed, I need my people at CISA to be focused on1207eradicating those adversaries from the Federal Government1208computer systems, as well as critical infrastructure of the1209United States.1210    Senator Hawley. Let me just read some of the euphemisms1211that your predecessor used to talk about CISA's mission and the1212censorship effort. Narrative control, perception management,1213information integrity-that one is my favorite. You are telling1214me you are going to get CISA out of the business of policing1215narrative control.1216    I mean, narrative control? Good lord. I mean, what could be1217more Orwellian than that? A Federal Government, the most1218powerful government in the world engaged in narrative control?1219Your testimony here is that you will get CISA out of this1220business. You will comply with the First Amendment to the1221Constitution of the United States, and you will not engage in1222censorship of American citizens of any kind. Am I understanding1223you correctly?1224    Mr. Plankey. Senator, put it bluntly, yes. You are1225understanding me correctly.1226    Senator Hawley. Good. Let's talk about what that's going to1227look like in the election context. Obviously, CISA has1228important election security work, protecting our election1229infrastructure, that's important work, that's designated by1230statute. That however, is different than monitoring political1231speech and monitoring political campaigns.1232    Tell us how you are going to make the line clear between1233cybersecurity protections for our elections and political1234content moderation, which again, is unfortunately which your1235agency has been involved in in recent years.1236    Mr. Plankey. Senator, thank you for that question. CISA's1237role in election security is a sub-sector of critical1238infrastructure.1239    The President has already given guidance on this in his1240recent Executive Order. That guidance says that the Department1241of Homeland Security will focus on electronic election system,1242so electroencephalography (EEG), like a voting system that1243Americans might use to vote to ensure their vote is assessed1244prior to an election, and that no adversarial actions or1245vulnerabilities are on it.1246    Now that is tasked in the President's Executive Order that1247he has already thought of, down to DHS. If Secretary Noem1248tasked CISA to do that, which I could imagine she likely will,1249my team if confirmed, will focus on the assessments of that1250election infrastructure.1251    Senator Hawley. Good. Everything you said to me is1252encouraging. I am glad to hear it. I know that you appreciate1253that CISA has a major trust deficit, given what's happened in1254the last four years. That's a problem because, we have gone so1255far in this body, there are tasks that frankly CISA ought to be1256performing, including things related to like the security of1257rural hospitals, which is very important to me, very important1258to my State. Forty percent of the hospitals in my State are1259rural. We need the cybersecurity help.1260    But frankly, we have been very reluctant to use CISA for1261any of this because CISA has been a surveillance and censorship1262machine for the last four years. This has to stop. We have to1263get this agency back on track, and I hope that you are the1264right person to do it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.1265    Chairman Paul. Senator Slotkin.12661267              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SLOTKIN12681269    Senator Slotkin. Thank you for being here. I understand1270this was raised before, but Mr. Fox you have been nominated, to1271be Inspector General of the entire intelligence community.1272Having relationships with Inspector Generals and providing that1273objective stand back investigation into really important1274questions of integrity in the intelligence community. I am a1275former CIA officer, so this is important to me.1276    I think if we expect you to do that behind closed doors, we1277have to know that you are going to be objective. What is your1278assessment of whether classified information was shared in the1279Signal Gate exchange? Was there classified information that you1280are aware of, placed on an unclassified system and shared with1281the journalist?1282    Mr. Fox. Thank you for the question, Senator. I agree with1283you that it's very important that we protect our sensitive1284information. To my knowledge, the Secretary of Defense, who is1285the original classifier authority (OCA), on the content from1286DOD, determined that it was unclassified. In my capacity as the1287Acting Chief of Information Management at ODNI, our practice is1288to defer to other agencies for information originating out of1289those agencies.1290    Senator Slotkin. OK. Even though we now have a report that1291that information was directly taken from a document labeled1292``SECRET'' ``Not Releasable to Foreign Nationals (NOFORN), with1293no declassification process that I have heard of formally going1294on, you believe that just because the Secretary of Defense was1295the Secretary of Defense, he got to declassify it just by1296putting it on Signal Gate?1297    Mr. Fox. I am not familiar Senator with DODs policies when1298it comes to declassifying or determining the classification of1299information.1300    Senator Slotkin. That's a strong statement to say that I am1301not familiar with DODs processes, but you are saying it's1302unclassified. First of all, I want you to be familiar. If you1303are going to be the Inspector General, you are going to have to1304weigh in on a million of these cases when people rank and file1305officers, leak information.1306    I would just say it's hard to understand how the senior1307officer in charge of inspections and investigations on this1308issue can't speak clearly about how a potential leak of1309classified information is bad, and to be not familiar with the1310procedures is concerning.1311    Let me ask another question related to the reporting. I1312believe you are right now the senior advisor to Tulsi Gabbard,1313is that correct?1314    Mr. Fox. My title is Senior Advisor, but I am performing1315the capacity of Acting Chief of Information Management,1316Senator.1317    Senator Slotkin. Got it. I guess what I am having trouble1318understanding is in the past couple of days there's been1319reports out that your current boss has put forward going after1320Barack Obama and a bunch of reporting from I think nine years1321ago now, on the exact same day that President Trump's name1322appeared in the Wall Street Journal as being in the Epstein1323files, the exact same day.1324    It is hard to imagine that in the four-years of the Trump1325administration, previously, in the six-months leading up to1326now, when there's been plenty of time for your boss, for you1327all and your front office to refer these issues to the1328Department of Justice (DOJ), you picked the exact same day that1329the President knew he was going to be named as being in the1330files of a known pedophile, right? A known sexual offender.1331    Can you help me understand why, because my 10-year-old1332nephew understands that that was a distraction. That we were1333talking about something that was 10 years old on the exact day1334that the President did not want to be talking about his name1335being in those files. Can you answer for that?1336    Mr. Fox. Senator, I really appreciate the opportunity to1337address this. The declassification process is lengthy and it's1338significant, and we have an excellent team of officers1339working----1340    Senator Slotkin. Wait a minute, you just said that1341Secretary Hegseth could declassify under his authority and put1342out on public information, a piece of SECRET NOFORN1343information. So that took seconds. I have seen Presidents do1344this. I am a CIA officer; Presidents can declassify very1345quickly.1346    Are you saying that the reason why Tulsi Gabbard made that1347decision to announce yesterday, or whatever it was two days1348ago, was because of a lengthy declassification process? You are1349talking to a CIA officer who's watched those things happen.1350Please tell me how in the four-years of the Trump1351administration, previously it did not get done, but yesterday1352it got done?1353    Mr. Fox. Senator, I appreciate that question and your1354service as a clandestine officer. These documents are reviewed1355very carefully and redacted as needed to protect sensitive1356sources and methods. That's not an overnight process.1357    Chairman Paul. Time has expired.1358    Senator Slotkin. Thank you. Sorry.1359    Chairman Paul. We are getting close to the end. Senator1360Peters.1361    Senator Peters. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Allende, I have1362introduced bipartisan legislation to establish a pilot program1363with very strict Federal oversight that would permit some1364State, local, tribal, and territorial (SLTT) law enforcement1365agencies to conduct operations to counter drone threats that1366are going to continue to be a persistent challenge for us.1367    My question for you is, if confirmed as the Under Secretary1368for S&T, how would you help ensure that these law enforcement1369agencies have access to the safest, most effective technology1370necessary to accomplish this mission?1371    Mr. Allende. Senator, thank you for your question. I share1372your concern. In Florida, drones are something that we have a1373great deal of concern about. Within our portfolio at the1374Department of Management Services, we have the Florida1375Facilities Pool, which includes the capital and the Governor's1376mansion. Those are two very sensitive subjects for us1377particularly when someone's flying a drone that should be1378unauthorized.1379    If confirmed, in the context of your question in the1380Federal space, my first step would be to get with the1381components in the law enforcement space, particularly those1382within DHS at the first instance, to understand what their1383needs, gaps and wants would be to support their critical1384operations.1385    Then, work with the experts within the Director of Science1386and Technology to bring to bear already available technologies,1387technologies that can be incrementally modified to very quickly1388adjust to those needs, and if needed, specialized research.1389Although I think in the drone space, we have seen a lot of1390breadth in the market. So, I would probably lean very heavily1391on the first two.1392    Senator Peters. Very good. We have a lot more than that, so1393I will look forward if indeed confirmed that we have to have1394further conversation on this. We are way behind in our1395abilities to protect the American people, the homeland and need1396to take aggressive actions.1397    Mr. Plankey, CISA has a number of statutory requirements1398such as Critical Infrastructure Protection Stipulations under1399Homeland Security Act, national communications, infrastructure1400security mandates. You are well aware of the long list of1401responsibilities that are there. There's been some questions1402about focus of CISA and we can debate the past, but it was you1403know, I think it was a unit there, folks are concerned about1404that had 15 people out of 3,000 people that work at CISA. From1405what I have heard from Secretary Noem, she says, this is back1406on mission. It's ready to protect our country from cyber1407threats. We have to lean in to make this happen.1408    You are fully aware of the threats that we have. You1409understand the significant nature of them and how they are1410persistent, and we need resources to deal with it. My question1411for you is, how would you ensure that all of the agency's1412statutory requirements are met? Given potentially millions of1413dollars in budget cuts that we are seeing and hundreds of1414personnel leaving that agency.1415    You are walking into an agency that's critically important1416and it's being cutoff at the knees, because some of alleged1417things that may have happened in the past but are not occurring1418now according to the Secretary.1419    Mr. Plankey. Yes, Senator. Thank you for that statement.1420One of the ways that I have found that's most effective to when1421you come in to lead an organization is to allow the operators1422to operate, right? CISA has a number of the most capable1423cybersecurity people in the world. If confirmed, like to get1424into that, provide them the direction, tell them what I would1425say is the hill we are going to take, charge up and protect the1426American public from cybersecurity tax on critical1427infrastructure, in State and local areas, mom and pop small1428businesses, but then also the Federal Civilian Executive1429Branch.1430    I am going to empower those operators to operate and do the1431best they can. If that means we have to reorganize in some form1432or fashion, that's what we will do. I will lead that charge. If1433that means that we need a different level of funding than we1434currently have now, then I will approach the Secretary, ask for1435that funding, ask for that support.1436    I am heartened by her understanding of the Department of1437Homeland Security and where she's applied her resources. As you1438can see her and under the President's leadership, they have1439seen that the United States Coast Guard needed resources and1440they provided those. I have no doubt if I go to her and tell1441her we are driving in this direction to protect the American1442public, she will work under the President's leadership to then1443work with Congress to get us the funds we need.1444    Senator Peters. I appreciate that these are folks who are1445already working very hard. The cyber threat is increasing like1446this, and then our protection is going like that, reorganizing1447may be something to look at, but you have your Coast Guard1448experience. in the Coast Guard there are auxiliary Coast Guard1449men and women, there are reserves. We do not have that at CISA.1450    We cannot call up the Cyber Protection Reserves to come in1451to help us because the bad guys are coming at us with1452everything they have. I would hope if confirmed, you are really1453focused on the resource needs and have the willingness to step1454up and tell folks, no, this is really important, and as a1455committee we need to be engaged to back you up, not just from a1456funding, but any other additional authorities that you need. I1457hope you make that commitment to me now.1458    Mr. Plankey. Yes, sir. You have that commitment.1459Absolutely.1460    Senator Peters. Thanks.1461    Chairman Paul. Thank you all for your testimony. As we come1462to a close, I want to compliment the Trump administration and1463Secretary Noem for changing the policy on censorship. We had a1464CISA that was actually at one point in 2021, released a video1465that encouraged people to report their own family to Facebook1466if they challenge the government's narrative on COVID-19. Turns1467out many of the things the government said turned out not to be1468true.1469    The things people have as far as opinions on medicine,1470vaccines, masks, a lot of times there are simply opinions. In1471fact, almost always are opinions, and you can hear both sides1472of these things, but I compliment you for stopping this, but1473realize it's only temporary until the next administration.1474    The way to make it permanent is when we reauthorize CISA.1475Everybody's been talking, they want see CISA reauthorized, all1476right, we will do it, but we are going to put in their anti-1477censorship language, and we need to make this part of the law.1478It already is the law. It's called the First Amendment. But we1479need to specifically prohibit CISA from getting involved in1480political speech.1481    People on the other side immediately respond and they say,1482what about sex trafficking and this and that? That's against1483the law. That's not constitutionally protected speech. Crimes1484CISA will still be allowed to be involved with, political1485speech they won't. I think we can separate the two.1486    But I think if we add language like that, we can get some1487permanence. I am hoping we can come to a bipartisan agreement1488on this, to add language in there, keeping CISA out of this.1489It's like, to me it's simply distracts CISA from a job we want,1490not to be hacked in by foreign terrorists, et cetera, to1491protect our grid.1492    All of those things are reasonable requests, but we are1493wasting time and money and simply angering, and really it pits1494us all against each other. Whether or not a cloth mask works or1495not. Is it six foot of separation or should have been 30 feet1496of separation? If you catch COVID once, can you catch it again?1497Will you die if you catch it Again? These are opinions and1498there are facts to support opinions, but CISA has got no1499business being involved in this.1500    Really, they just shouldn't. There's something unseemly1501about it. The idea that agents from Department of Homeland1502Security and or the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) would1503be meeting with the media to tell them, well, we are just not1504so sure that interview where Rand Paul said, cloth masks do not1505work and we are just not sure that should be aired. That sounds1506like something you would see in a totalitarian regime. It1507really is terrible.1508    But I compliment the Trump administration, Secretary Noem1509for changing it. I want everybody to know that we are going to1510reauthorize CISA, but we are going to put language in there and1511I hope it can be bipartisan language that is going to protect1512speech and protect the First Amendment.1513    Thank you all for coming. The nominees have filed responses1514to biographical and financial\1\ questionnaires,\2\ answering1515pre-hearing questions\3\ submitted to the Committee and had1516their financial statements\4\ reviewed by the Office of1517Government Ethics.1518---------------------------------------------------------------------------1519    \1\ The information of Mr. Allende appears in the Appendix on page152031.1521    \2\ The information of Mr. Plankey appears in the Appendix on page1522106.1523    \3\ The information of Mr. Fox appears in the Appendix on page 161.1524    \4\ The information of Mr. O'Connell appears in the Appendix on1525page 183.1526---------------------------------------------------------------------------1527    Additionally, the Committee has received letters of1528supports for the nominees. Without objection, this information1529will be made part of the hearing record with the exception of1530the nominees financial data, which are on file with the1531Committee.1532    The hearing record will remain open until noon tomorrow.1533Thank you all. We are adjourned.1534    [Whereupon, at 5:10 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]15351536                            A P P E N D I X15371538                              ----------15391540    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]15411542                                 [all]