S.Hrg.119-197

1[Senate Hearing 119-197]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                                                        S. Hrg. 119-19756                       BEYOND THE SMASH AND GRAB:7                 CRIMINAL NETWORKS AND ORGANIZED THEFT89=======================================================================1011                                HEARING1213                               BEFORE THE1415                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY16                          UNITED STATES SENATE1718                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS1920                             FIRST SESSION2122                               __________2324                             JULY 15, 20252526                               __________2728                          Serial No. J-119-292930                               __________3132         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary3334[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3536                        www.judiciary.senate.gov37                            www.govinfo.gov3839                                __________4041                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE4261-886                    WASHINGTON : 20254344-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------4546                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY4748                  CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa, Chairman49LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina    RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois,50JOHN CORNYN, Texas                       Ranking Member51MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah                 SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island52TED CRUZ, Texas                      AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota53JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri                CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware54THOM TILLIS, North Carolina          RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut55JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana              MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii56MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee          CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey57ERIC SCHMITT, Missouri               ALEX PADILLA, California58KATIE BOYD BRITT, Alabama            PETER WELCH, Vermont59ASHLEY MOODY, Florida                ADAM B. SCHIFF, California6061             Kolan Davis, Chief Counsel and Staff Director62         Joe Zogby, Democratic Chief Counsel and Staff Director6364                            C O N T E N T S6566                              ----------6768                           OPENING STATEMENTS6970                                                                   Page7172Grassley, Hon. Charles E.........................................     173Durbin, Hon. Richard J...........................................     27475                               WITNESSES7677Glawe, David J...................................................     578    Prepared statement...........................................    3079    Responses to written questions...............................    8080Lemm, Donna......................................................     681    Prepared statement...........................................    4282    Responses to written questions...............................    9383McBride, Scott...................................................     884    Prepared statement...........................................    6485    Responses to written questions...............................    9686Summer, Stephan..................................................    1087    Prepared statement...........................................    7188    Responses to written questions...............................   1058990                                APPENDIX9192Items submitted for the record...................................   1179394                       BEYOND THE SMASH AND GRAB:95                         CRIMINAL NETWORKS AND96                            ORGANIZED THEFT9798                              ----------99100                         TUESDAY, JULY 15, 2025101102                              United States Senate,103                                Committee on the Judiciary,104                                                    Washington, DC.105    The Committee met, pursuant to notice at 10:16 a.m., in106Room 216, Hart Senate Office Building, Hon. Charles E.107Grassley, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.108    Present: Senators Grassley [presiding], Cornyn, Blackburn,109Britt, Moody, Durbin, Whitehouse, Klobuchar, Coons, Hirono, and110Padilla.111112        OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES E. GRASSLEY,113             A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF IOWA114115    Chairman Grassley. Good morning, everybody. Today's hearing116addresses the continued rise in organized retail and supply117chain crime and the criminal networks that are involved in that118criminal activity. We've all seen videos of mobs ransacking119stores of thousands of dollars of goods and doing it in a very120short period of time. Somebody measured one time, 2 minutes.121    The reality is, some of the worst criminal organizations,122including cartels, terrorists, and human traffickers use this123type of crime funding their misdeeds or launder ill-gotten124proceeds. These groups steal large quantities of merchandise125from retail stores and the supply chain then attempt to resell126these stolen items online through other illicit channels.127    One Homeland Security Investigation operation called King128of Thieves uncovered organized retail crime ring, which had129sent millions of dollars in criminal proceeds overseas. That130same group finance coyote fees for deported individuals to131return to the United States.132    Earlier this year in Katy, Texas, law enforcement133discovered that mall thieves were linked to cartels responsible134for over $100 million in thefts across the United States. So135far, law enforcement officials have linked 98 individuals to136this ring. This threat has evolved to our supply chains137exposing significant vulnerabilities.138    The Justice Department recently indicted 11 defendants,139including 9 illegal immigrants with stealing nearly $500140million dollars' worth of Nike shoes. The defendants' new141valuable goods were in a train car based on visible high142security locks. The defendants cut the air hose to the train's143braking system, which can cause derailments and serious144injuries. Criminals see this type of crime as a low risk, very145high reward way to fund their enterprises with no regard for146the people that they endanger.147    It's not just luxury goods these thieves are after. Items148in food and beverage categories are among the most stolen in149supply chain crime. These goods are transported in specific150ways to maintain food safety from infant formula to basic151groceries. Once a seal is broken and a single pallet of goods152is stolen, the entire container is no longer safe for153consumption.154    Congress must treat these acts for what they are. They're155acts of violent, sophisticated criminals exploiting a patchwork156system. Efforts to address this sweeping problem through civil157actions are insufficient. Criminal action must be met with158criminal punishment. Federal coordination is needed to share159information, promote collaborative investigations, and fully160address this sweeping cross jurisdictional crime that impacts161all Americans.162    Homeland Security investigators estimate that the average163American family will pay more than $500 annually in additional164costs due to the impact of organized retail crime. This is one165of the many reasons 38 States attorneys general support Senator166Cortez Masto and my bill. The bill goes by the title of167Combating Organized Retail Crime.168    Many of the signatories on this letter are from Members of169this Committee's home State. They wrote, ``This legislation170would provide the necessary resources at the State and Federal171level to bring organizations and individuals behind this172nationwide problem to justice.''173    So, without objection, I'll enter the letter into the174record.175    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]176    Chairman Grassley. And now, I call on Ranking Member,177Senator Durbin, for his opening statement.178179         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN,180           A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS181182    Senator Durbin. Thanks, Chairman Grassley for holding this183hearing to look into large scale theft of retail products that184are then sold to unsuspecting consumers, often on online185marketplaces.186    This is not a new problem. Back in 2008, I met with Home187Depot. They told me the story about a drill that they sold188exclusively that was being found for sale new in the box, and189at a discount by sellers online. It had to have been stolen190some part of manufacturing or sales process, and it wasn't just191tools. This was and still is happening in all kinds of192products, all kinds of stores, including cosmetics,193electronics, clothes, over-the-counter, drugs, toys, and as the194Chairman said, food and other things.195    I remember when the CEO of Walgreens came in to see me196based out of Illinois, and I said, ``Now, why do I have to call197a clerk at your drug store when I want to buy underarm198deodorant so they can unlock the shelf and I can buy the199underarm deodorant? Are these so precious that they have to200have special surveillance and guarding?'' And he said the fact201of the matter is retail theft takes these things in volume and202sells them in volume. And of course, it's not the individual.203It's likely to be the one to sell it. It's some sort of an204operation, which we're going to talk about today.205    This is a problem that affects everybody. Higher prices,206lost jobs, and lost community investment when shops that can't207keep up with the rising cause of theft are force to close their208doors. I've worked on this issue for a long time. As Chairman209of the Committee years ago, I held a hearing on cleaning up210online marketplace to protect consumers from stolen,211counterfeit, and unsafe goods. Not long after, Congress passed212my Informed Consumers Act bipartisan bill I introduced with213Senator Bill Cassidy, Republican of Louisiana.214    This law requires online marketplaces to collect, verify,215and disclose information about high volume sellers who offer216new or unused consumer products for sale on the platform.217Remember that Home Depot drill that I talked to you about218earlier when they found out that it was being sold online and219clearly had been stolen? They contacted the online operation220and said, this is a stolen product. There's no doubt about it.221And the online operation said, ``So what? That's not our222responsibility. That's somebody else's.''223    Well, this bill, the Informed Bill changed that. The224Informed Consumers Act is guided by three principles,225verification, transparency, and accountability. If someone's226going to sell large volume of goods online on the marketplace,227they should tell the marketplace who they are. Home Depot228couldn't figure out who was selling these drills. The online229operation wouldn't identify their user. The sellers should be230verified.231    Second, if a product sold online and turns out to be a232fake, stolen, or dangerous, consumers should be able to report233it and find the seller, and the marketplace must to ensure the234seller can't just disappear and pop up later with a new account235name. Third, if a consumer orders a product from one seller236online and the order's actually filled by another company, the237marketplace should let the consumer know.238    I'm sad to report to you that despite 2 years since we239passed this bill, the Federal Trade Commission has literally240dropped the ball on enforcing the Informed Consumer Act. It's241been more than 2 years since this law went in effect. The242Federal Trade Commission hasn't even promulgated regulations in2432 years to implement it.244    The FTC has received hundreds of complaints regarding245violations of this law. But how many enforcement actions has246this agency taken? None. Zero. This is unacceptable and it must247change. The Federal Trade Commission has to step up and enforce248the law that we passed and the President signed.249    In the meantime, State and local governments have stepped250up their efforts. In May, in my home State of Illinois, Cook251County Regional Organized Crime Task force brought together252more than 100 law enforcement agencies and 30 major retailers253for a crackdown that resulted in hundreds of arrests across 28254States. That that is a success we must build on.255    Federal law enforcement also has an important role to play,256but we must acknowledge this administration has announced257different priorities instead of combating crimes. Like I258described, the Trump administration has diverted critical259resources toward the President's mass deportation agenda.260Homeland Security Investigations, better known as HSI, plays a261leading role in combating criminal networks and organized262crime, including organized retail theft. But under this263administration, HSI has been diverted toward rounding up264immigrants, many of whom pose no threat whatsoever to this265country.266    According to one recent report, and I quote, ``HSI,267supervisors have waived agents off new cases so they have more268time to make immigration enforcement arrest.'' One veteran269agent said, ``No drug cases, no human trafficking, no child270exploitation. It's infuriating.'' Instead, he said, ``HSI is271arresting gardeners.''272    These are not the actions of an administration serious273about combating crime, diverting Federal resources and dangers274Americans, and leaves us less equipped to target and disrupt275criminals like those in organized retail theft. We have to have276an open and honest discussion about the role of the Federal277Government in reducing organized retail crime. I look forward278to that dialog today. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.279    Chairman Grassley. Thank you. Before I introduce our280witnesses, I'll say thank you for the time that you put in to281prepare for this and going out of your way to be with us to282help us solve this very important issue.283    Our first witness, Honorable David J. Glawe, President,284Chief Executive Officer, National Insurance Crime Bureau. In285this role, Mr. Glawe leads a united effort among property286casualty insurance companies, law enforcement agencies, car287rental companies, and other partners to combat insurance fraud.288    He served in the intelligence community in law enforcement289for 20 years or more before retiring from public service. He290was the Senate-confirmed Under Secretary of Homeland Security291for Intelligence Analysis, and he happens to come from the292State of Iowa.293    Ms. Donna Lemm is Chief Strategy officer of IMC Logistics,294an intermodal carrier, and the largest marine short distance295transport provider in our country. She's a known leader in the296industry, having worked in logistics and transportation for297over 30 years. IMC is based in Memphis, Tennessee, one of the298Nation's largest freight hubs.299    Scott McBride, the Chief Global Asset Protection Officer300for American Eagle Outfitters. After serving as a Marine, Mr.301McBride started his career at American Eagle as a store302associate in 1993. He's been with the company obviously for303more than 30 years. Mr. McBride is also chairperson of the Loss304Prevention Asset Protection Council at the National Retail305Federation. He recently received Loss Prevention Magazine,306Founders Award for Excellence in Leadership.307    District Attorney Summer Stephan. Ms. Stephan is the308current President of the National District Attorney's309Association. She's the district attorney for San Diego County,310California, the second largest DA office in California, and the311fifth largest in the United States.312    As district attorney, Ms. Stephan created a specialized313team to investigate and prosecute organized retail crime cases,314working closely with businesses and law enforcement. She's315recognized as the national leader in combating human316trafficking and sex crimes, as well as organized retail theft.317    Now, I'm going to ask you folks to stand so we swear you318in.319    [Witnesses are sworn in.]320    Chairman Grassley. They all have said yes. Now, you may321give your opening statement from Glawe across the table there.322So, please begin, Mr. Glawe.323324  STATEMENT OF HON. DAVID J. GLAWE, PRESIDENT & CEO, NATIONAL325          INSURANCE CRIME BUREAU, OAK BROOK, ILLINOIS326327    Mr. Glawe. Chairman Grassley, Ranking Member Durbin and328Members of the Committee, thank you for the invitation to329testify and holding this important hearing on organized retail330and cargo theft.331    I'm the President and Chief Executive Officer of the332National Insurance Crime Bureau. NICB is the Nation's premier333non-for-profit organization committed to detecting, preventing,334and deterring insurance crime and fraud through intelligence-335driven operations. NICB has been fighting insurance-related336crimes since 1912. We are supported by over 1,200 property and337casualty insurance companies.338    For nearly 115 years, NICB has been at the intersection of339insurance industry and law enforcement, serving as the hub for340information sharing to protect consumers, including for reports341of suspected insurance crime and fraud. In fact, NICB is342codified by name into many States' insurance crime reporting343laws. This gives NICB unique visibility into organized crime344trends nationwide.345    Equipped with this expertise, NICB trains and assists law346enforcements in the investigation of crimes affecting consumers347as well as our members at the Federal level. NICB is especially348proud of our longstanding relationships and partnership with349the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the Federal Bureau350of Investigation. As an example, NICB special agents working351with our Federal partners leveraged our expertise on vehicle352identification numbers, also known as VINs, to help identify353the vehicles in the 1993 World Trade Center and Oklahoma City354bombings. NICB also assisted State and local law enforcement to355recover over 6,000 vehicles in wake of the Maui and Los Angeles356wildfires.357    These public and private partnerships continue today and358are joint efforts to combat threats that transcend State and359national borders, including organized thieves. These360sophisticated transna-tional criminal organizations, which361effectively operate as billion-dollar corporations profit from362these crimes, cargo theft exploits, supply chain vulnerability.363    Its big business, big money, and big opportunity. The364impacts are felt at kitchen tables across the country through365higher costs. In 2024, cargo theft increased to historic highs,366up 27 percent from 2023 with estimated losses exceeding $1367billion. This year, we expect it to rise another 22 percent.368Other estimates suggest that cargo losses may reach up to $35369billion annually. In the past 18 months, NICB has assisted in370more than 240 cargo theft investigations leading to more to371over 70 recoveries valued at nearly $40 million.372    Cargo thefts are not the result of small operations. These373are well-funded, sophisticated criminal businesses, which374include Mexican drug cartels as well as operations out of West375Africa, China, and Eastern Europe. Often secured stolen goods,376everything from sports drinks to sports cars are routinely377exported into illicit markets to finance other criminal378activities including drugs, weapons, and even terrorism.379    As an example, NICB recently assisted law enforcement in380uncovering a cargo theft ring that used business email381compromises to successfully export stolen industrial equipment382to resale overseas. In 2024, we assisted in a multi-state383investigation that resulted in more than 50 arrests and the384recovery of vehicles to include weapons, drugs, and more than385$8 million of cargo stolen from a major railroad. And recently,386NICB assisted U.S. Customs and Border Protection in387intercepting stolen TVs that were bound for Panama.388    NICBs investigations confirmed that transnational criminal389organizations are exploiting supply chain vulnerabilities by390posing as legitimate or fictitious carriers through identity391theft and synthetic IDs. These complex tactics compel a392coordinated response from the public and private sectors.393    In the public sector, deterrents and coordination are394critical. Criminals currently benefit from a legal framework395with inadequate deterrence and fragmented law enforcement396coordination. The private sector must commit to stronger397carrier vetting protocols and adopting other industry standards398for preventing theft. Congress can help by passing the399bipartisan Combating Organized Retail Crime Act.400    CORCA would increase deterrence by enhancing current401criminal statutes. The bill also establishes a coordination402center within the Department of Homeland Security. Currently,403there is no central hub for intelligence sharing and operation404coordination, thus making it difficult to confront the full405scope of the threat. A coordination center would address this406gap. Homeland Security Investigations is well suited for this407role given its expertise in transnational criminal408organizations.409    Public-private partnerships are essential. NICB stands at410the intersection to support the center with any requested411expertise, intelligence, operational support, and resources.412NICB applauds the bipartisan work in the Senate to combat413transnational criminal organizations and cargo theft, which414harms all consumers.415    Thank you again for this opportunity to testify, and I look416forward to answering your questions.417    [The prepared statement of Mr. Glawe appears as a418submission for the record.]419    Chairman Grassley [off mic]. Thank you, Mr. Glawe. Now, Ms.420Lemm.421422STATEMENT OF DONNA LEMM, CHIEF STRATEGY OFFICER, IMC LOGISTICS,423                    COLLIERVILLE, TENNESSEE424425    Ms. Lemm. Chairman Grassley, Ranking Member Durbin, and426Committee Members, thank you for the opportunity to testify427about the exponential rise of cargo theft. We need your help.428    My name is Donna Lemm, and I am the Chief Strategy Officer429for IMC Logistics. Our company is a nationwide intermodal and430drayage provider. IMC and our ATA motor carriers are on the431front line of this crisis.432    A few years ago, cargo theft was barely on my company's433radar. In 2021, we had 5 cargo thefts reported. In 2024, we had434876 cargo thefts reported. That's alone a 17,520 percent435increase. The landscape has shifted, moving from criminals to436organized theft groups sabotaging our supply chain.437    So much of our cargo moves intermodal. Our partner438railroads share with us drone footage of thieves cutting air439brakes, containers thrown across the desert and criminals440emptying these containers in minutes. These containers arrive441for motor carriers pickup and our large intermodal rail hubs,442Chicago, Memphis, St. Louis, Kansas City, and Dallas.443    These contents and containers sometimes arriving empty or444with contents half gone. Cargo theft impacts all of us,445including our food and agricultural shippers who are caught in446this explosion of organized thefts. Full trailer loads of food447and beverages that have been targeted have been stolen and448gone, agricultural exports by rail, sadly seeing loads449pilfered, seals cut, our cargo spoiled, damaged, and lost.450    It becomes so challenging to pinpoint where the theft451happens. In these interstate commerce moves, arrests and452prosecutions are nearly impossible. Meanwhile, consumer prices453and insurance rates soar. The level of violence surrounding454these acts becomes more threatening.455    On a local level cargo theft has also taken a very large456toll. Just 8 weeks ago, our Memphis terminal was stormed by457seven vehicles. Our gates were cut breached, criminals went458straight to a specific area of our terminal. They were459interrupted by our security team, but not before they had460stolen $25,000 worth of merchandise in just 3 minutes.461    In our Riverside, California terminal, similar stories.462Three masked criminals cut our gates in broad daylight and463opened six containers before interrupted by our guard. We're464talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars stolen in465incidents across the United States with no resolution.466    How can we connect the dots at local, State, and Federal467levels on these cargo crimes? Here's an example of the value if468we do. We had two containers of appliances stolen in St. Louis.469It was reported for insurance purposes, but no arrests were470made. Several months later, we got a call from the ATF. They471had stumbled across our appliances in a warehouse that they472raided. These refrigerators were being stuffed with cash to473smuggle money across the southern border.474    This is not just an insurance matter. Cargo crimes, if475connected, can help us link these operations orchestrated by476transnational criminals. Brazen heist like these put our whole477supply chain and our workers in harm's way. Our employees and478our drivers are our most valuable asset. We invest millions of479dollars in multi-layered security, including surveillance480equipment, vehicle barriers, tracking technology, engine481immobilizers, SOS buttons for our drivers and for our guards.482    We also have very advanced cyber security protocol, but483these criminal groups are highly organized. They have484formidable cyber capabilities of their own. One fraudster stole485a customer's identity to place an illegitimate delivery order486with us, and we are sending unknowingly valuable goods right487into the hands of these bad actors. Another group made488counterfeit driver IDs and fake placards on the side of the489truck to impersonate a real motor carrier. They stole five490loads and chassis valued at more than a million dollars.491    Rising cargo theft and incidents like ours are happening to492my counterparts across the trucking industry and across our493supply chain. We cannot stay silent. Cargo theft will continue494to metastasize unless Congress recognizes the severity of the495problem, law enforcement devoting sufficient time and496resources, and the Federal Government taking a leading role in497coordinating enforcement efforts.498    This is why the trucking industry is enormously grateful to499Senator Grassley and Cortez Masto for their leadership in500introducing the Combating Organized Retail Crime Act. This bill501would put law enforcement's coordination on par with their502sophisticated criminal adversaries and safeguard our national503security. Cargo theft is robbing our supply chain to the tune504of $35 billion per year. Who is harmed? All of us?505    I thank the Committee for their focus on this issue, and I506look forward to your questions.507    [The prepared statement of Ms. Lemm appears as a submission508for the record.]509    Chairman Grassley. Thank you, Ms. Lemm.510    [Off mic.]511    Now, Mr. McBride.512513   STATEMENT OF SCOTT McBRIDE, CHIEF GLOBAL ASSET PROTECTION514     OFFICER, AMERICAN EAGLE OUTFITTERS INC., PITTSBURGH,515                          PENNSYLVANIA516517    Mr. McBride. Chairman Grassley, Ranking Member Durbin and518esteemed Members of the Committee thank you for the opportunity519to address this critical issue of organized retail crime.520Chairman Grassley, thank you to you and Senator Cortez Masto521for reintroducing the CORCA Act of 2025 and inviting me to522testify.523    My name is Scott McBride. I'm the Chief Global Asset524Protection Officer for American Eagle Outfitters, a national525retail company that operates stores and online in all 50 States526and represents 35,000 associates. I have also been an active527member for almost 20 years of the National Retail Federation's528Loss Prevention Council, having just completed a 2-year term as529chair, and now currently, chair emeritus.530    Imagine an organization that leverages masters level531business concepts to unite individuals toward a common goal,532harnessing technology to their advantage and defining clear533roles and responsibilities. You might think I'm describing a534successful retail company, but this group also uses535intimidation and violence, electronic countermeasures to hide536from and evade detection, and manipulates financial instruments537like gift cards, and executes nefarious reverse logistics538tactics to sell or move stolen product offshore.539    ORC is far more than simple shoplifting. It represents a540sophisticated criminal enterprise, perpetrating massive thefts,541escalating violence against our associates and customers,542crossing jurisdictional lines to avoid prosecution, and543deploying professional-style tactics to fuel their nefarious544operation, including reverse logistics, illicit liquidation,545financial crimes and recruitment. They repeatedly victimize546retail stores and disrupt our supply chains. This is how an547organized retail crime group operates.548    While ORC is not new, its verdict, its veracity,549sophistication, and frequency and geographic reach have550dramatically increased in the post-Covid era. These groups use551encrypted message apps to recruit thieves, coordinate the552consolidation of stolen goods, liquidate them through illicit,553online tertiary and black market sites, and even exfiltrate554stolen product out of the country.555    Simultaneously, retailers have invested in new technology556to provide a clear insight into the scope of these thefts.557Pinpointing the last known location of the missing items,558timestamping video of incidents, and enhancing collaboration559with law enforcement in all jurisdictions.560    Despite our efforts, the problem continues to grow.561Consider the recent case where Homeland Security Investigations562working alongside State and local law enforcement successfully563interdicted an exfiltration scheme. Stolen apparel was being564collected for packing into SeaLand containers destined to cross565the Texas/Mexico border.566    With the assistance of corporate investigators HSI567recovered almost 2,000 pairs of American Eagle jeans with the568other retailer merchandise totaling almost $2 million. The569retail jeans were valued at $100,000 of that $2 million. RFID570research revealed that those stolen AEO jeans came from 35571stores in 13 States. Evidence of the seizure has already led to572the discovery of a second arm of the same criminal group in573Utah and has generated additional investigative leads in574multiple States.575    Without the national reach of HSI, we would not have576achieved such success in developing this ongoing case, a case577far beyond the reach of any local understanding of law578enforcement or agency, given the magnitude of the crimes and579the multitude of jurisdictions.580    This example clearly underscores the urgent need for a581national-level involvement to support local and State582government, district attorneys, and State's attorneys general.583National visibility and link analysis are crucial to584comprehending the entire scope of the criminal involvement,585enabling the appropriate agencies and offices to make their586legal determinations commensurate with the full scope of the587criminal activity and lead to the disruption and dismantling of588organized crime groups.589    In conclusion, the Combating Organized Retail Crime Act is590an essential missing layer. It would establish the Organized591Retail Crime Group and Cargo Theft Coordination Center,592bringing together Federal, State, local law enforcement with593private sector experts to share vital information and594collaborate on strategies to keep our stores and supply chain595safe.596    Thank you for providing me this opportunity to tell our597story, and I look forward to answering your questions.598    [The prepared statement of Mr. McBride appears as a599submission for the record.]600    Chairman Grassley [off mic].601    Chairman Grassley. Thank you very much, Mr. McBride. Ms.602Stephan.603604STATEMENT OF HON. SUMMER STEPHAN, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL DISTRICT605ATTORNEYS ASSOCIATION, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, SAN DIEGO COUNTY, SAN606                       DIEGO, CALIFORNIA607608    Ms. Stephan. Good morning, Chairman Grassley, Ranking609Member Durbin, and respected Members of the Committee. My name610is Summer Steffan. I'm San Diego County's district attorney. I611spent 28 years as a prosecutor fighting crime and violence in612my community, rose through the ranks to become the elected613district attorney, and currently, the chairwoman of the614National District Attorney's Association. I bring both the615national and local experience to you to help bring a local616prosecutor's view and law enforcement view to this issue.617    I want to focus on a topic that we often hear about which618is a characterization of this as being an economic crime. That619is an absolute falsehood. Anybody who goes to a store, and620looks in the eyes of the employees, and talks to them will see621a very different picture in America than we've had in years622past.623    I went to an Ulta store where there's 20-year-olds aspiring624to become makeup artists. This is a store that is a chain that625sells makeup, which is a target of organized retail theft. The626way that those young clerks looked was very different than the627past. They're looking over their shoulder, they're waiting for628something bad to happen. And why they are waiting for that is629because a crew of organized criminals attacked the Ulta stores630and stole $700,000 worth.631    How do I know this? We were angry in San Diego to see the632fear in our community. I brought an organized team working with633ORCA, the Organized Retail Crime Theft Alliance, which has634businesses and local and State officials. We were able to put635together the case and solve it, and be able to bring people to636justice and send them to the consequences that they deserved.637However, all of the products were already lost. They were638either sold online or sold internationally.639    The same thing. I went to a small store, Sunny Perfumes,640the owner, and the immigrant in the San Ysidro area near the641border. Again, this man had a different look. Not one of642excitement like our business owners that our heart of America643should have, rather a look of trepidation. He showed me his644broken camera. He showed me how he has his cheap perfumes in645the front knowing that someone's going to come in and take his646product.647    So, what I want to focus on is not just that Capital One648said this was a $45 billion industry. I want to focus on our649fight in San Diego where we've tried to preserve jobs. We know650that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce has said that 650,000 jobs651have been lost. These are jobs for people to work and provide652for their family. This elevates it by itself to a national653issue. But in addition to that, because of our efforts in San654Diego, we've been able to identify and prosecute in 2 years,655218 defendants engaged in organized theft, and the best we656could do is get up to the fence level, which is the second657level at a level of $2.6 million.658    Even despite these successful efforts and task forces that659came together, we were unable to get beyond to be able to track660the product and the shot callers that are providing the661shopping list for people to go in and steal hundreds of662sunglasses worth $350,000, or makeup, or jeans, or Legos as was663our LA latest case. Or our recent $8 million jewelry heist664where two other States suffered from the same crew, but it was665unsolved because there was no alert system in the national666scope that alerted us that their coming to us potentially.667    These were part of identified and were prosecuted as part668of a South American transnational group that's been identified669by the FBI. They've also been the people responsible for a670hundred residential burglaries and in the cases we've done,671these residential burglaries have linked to multi-State672residential burglaries.673    Again, proving that this cannot be solved locally, it must674be solved by local, State, and national, and this is why NDAA675and San Diego DA's office supports the CORCA Bill because we676need to bring bigger solutions to a really big problem that's677affecting daily lives in every neighborhood. Thank you.678    [The prepared statement of Ms. Stephan appears as a679submission for the record.]680    Chairman Grassley. Before I ask my questions, I got a681couple things. So, one for 30 seconds. Last month, Matt Allen682from the DEA told this Committee that criminal investigations683go hand in hand with the Immigration Enforcement Homeland684Security Investigation. Special Agent in Charge, Jason Stevens685agreed that these crimes don't operate in isolation.686Reconciliation made millions that is intended to and will allow687agents to tackle violent crime including organized crime.688    Then, I also want to put in the record either statements or689letters on this legislation from over two 260 member companies690the National Retail Federation, the National Retail Industry691Leaders Association, Ulta Beauty Incorporated, Home Depot,692National Police Association, National Insurance Crime Bureau,693Association of American Railroads, International Council of694Shopping Centers, Intermodal Association of North America, and695the American Trucking Association. Without objections, they696will be entered in record.697    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]698    Chairman Grassley. So, I'm going to start my questioning.699Oh, by the way, I'll announce that on the Democratic side, the700order is Durbin, Whitehouse, Klobuchar Blumenthal, Hirono. On701my side, it's Grassley, Cornyn, Blackburn, Britt, Moody.702    Ms. Stephan, you're a strong supporter of my bill. You just703made an outstanding statement. The bill amends current law to704enable prosecution of organized retail and supply chain crime705groups using interstate and foreign commerce and establishes706the Organized Retail and Supply Chain Crime Coordinator Center707at HSI.708    How would this legislation improve the ability of both law709enforcement and prosecutors like you to tackle organized retail710crime?711    Ms. Stephan. I believe that, Senator, that this would be a712game changer because with the 218 organized crime cases that713our office has done in San Diego, we have not been able to714break through to what is going on nationally. We know these715groups are operating nationally, internationally. In fact, the716retailers tell us that their trackers are sounding off in the717middle of the seas heading to different countries, but the718investigations stop at the local level.719    This is a national problem that's draining the economic720resources from Americans, hardworking Americans, but it's also721draining the heart, and soul, and security of human beings. We722have to be able to bring national solutions.723    We have multiple examples where national, State, local724solutions work when we are dealing with, for example, elder725scams. We brought a national task force with the FBI. That's726the only way we were able to identify nationals from China that727had organized these scams and were able to actually bring both728RICO actions on the Federal and my office brought State729actions. Fentanyl; we've been able to drop that in San Diego by73037 percent. Absolutely would not happen without working with731Customs and Border Protection on a fast team where we got that732done.733    Chairman Grassley. Thank you. Mr. Glawe, you've served at734the top level of law enforcement and intelligence. We know from735DHS reports that cartels, terrorists, and human traffickers736either facilitate organized retail and supply chain crime, or737uses proceeds to finance other crimes.738    How are transnational criminal organization using organized739retail and supply chain crime to further their criminal740activities?741    Mr. Glawe. Chairman Grassley, thank you for the question.742We are embedded with the Department of Homeland Security, HSI,743and Customs and Border Protection in all the major ports and744with the FBI, and we're embedded with all 50 fusion centers or74550 States and multiple fusion centers as well. NICB as involved746is the information hub for the insurance carriers the private747sector and these organizations. We've done this for 115 years.748    We have seen goods moving overseas. In Mexico we749repatriated over, 2,000 vehicles that ended up south of the750border. We know that the stolen goods are going to West Africa751and the Middle East. From my prior role as the Under Secretary752and as an FBI agent here in Washington, we know that the supply753chains are interdicted with Lebanese Hezbollah. We've seen that754through Hamas, and we know that Mexican drug cartels are755involved with the goods going south of the border.756    A coordination center, a center for excellence to757coordinate intelligence from the private sector and my partners758to my left and from the local law enforcement as well as759coordinating operations is critical. This Committee's well760aware of OCDETF and SOD, the Counter-Terrorism Center,761Counterproliferation Center. These centers provide the hub for762information and operational-sharing information and763coordinating resources as well as tactical level response. We764know the model, we know the successful model, and this bill765would get us there or partially there.766    Chairman Grassley. Ms. Stephan, Title 18 makes Federal767crime to transport stolen property with a value of $5,000 or768more in interstate and foreign commerce. Supreme Court case law769allows prosecutors to aggregate the value of stolen goods in770common scheme to reach that threshold. Why is aggregation of771theft amounts very important?772    Ms. Stephan. Aggregation is critical because it773distinguishes between somebody who is drug addicted who goes774into to steal something, food, is still wrong, but it separates775them from the habitual, organized criminals. It allows you to776see the activity in totality and to be able to see the repeat777offenses that form the structure of organized, habitual778criminals.779    In California, we recently, after a long tenure fight, made780a change in Proposition 36 that allowed us to aggregate. And781it's already making a difference because we used to have782criminals coming in with the calculators to go right under783$950, thus leaving them at a citation misdemeanor level. That's784what caused all our products to become locked up except the785criminals that were committing the crimes.786    Chairman Grassley. Thank you. Senator Durbin.787    Senator Durbin. Thanks, Chairman Grassley. Ms. Stephan,788thanks for what you do, and thanks for endorsing this bill. It789sounds like a good one, but it is an expansion of the federal790enforcement as it would not apply to your jurisdiction,791correct?792    Ms. Stephan. Well, it actually is an--I think, an793expansion. If the task force, I read it a few times, puts794together this fusion center like a law enforcement coordination795center, then that information is supposed to feed to the locals796and all the way up. So, I view it as like the other task forces797on fentanyl where we work with DEA, like that it's going to798bring that fusion together to assist locals as well.799    Senator Durbin. But the leadership under this legislation800is federal, correct?801    Ms. Stephan. Absolutely, yes.802    Senator Durbin. That's the point I want to make. And the803reason I'm making that point is going back to what I said in my804opening statement, the investigations of these crimes at the805federal level depends on the Department of Homeland Security.806Does it not?807    Ms. Stephan. That's what I read. Yes, sir.808    Senator Durbin. That's the way I understand as well. In809February, the Department of Homeland Security in Washington810ordered its entire investigations division composed of 6,000811agents to divert focus on drug dealers, terrorists, and human812traffickers, and shift priority to the Trump administration's813mission of deporting people in the United States who are in the814United States illegally.815    The new focus for the DHS, Homeland Security Agency,816current and formal officials say is in keeping with the817President's executive orders that demand a wholesale shift in818federal law enforcement resources toward immigration,819crackdowns, and removal. But they warn the shift will undermine820high profile investigations into some of the most dangerous821transnational threats Americans face, including Mexican drug822cartels, smuggling deadly fentanyl across the border from823Mexico. Chris Campanelli, former HSI supervisory agents said,824``A lot of my colleagues were afraid this was going to happen.825This is going to be a total train wreck.''826    So, let's put the cards on the table. Yes, if anyone's827involved in illegally being in the United States, undocumented828or otherwise, and is engaged in criminal activity that is829dangerous to themselves and others, they should be removed,830period. Prosecuted, period. Are never let in in the first831place, period.832    But what about those who are living here, who've been here833for years, working a job, showing up every day, raising a834family, which is mainly American citizens and paying their835taxes. Is that a priority over what we're discussing today? Not836in my book as far as I'm concerned. We should go after with837limited law enforcement resources at the federal level, the838most dangerous and threatening situations imaginable.839    I've described a few of them where the subject of this840hearing is another one in retail theft. I don't doubt for a841second that what's been described to us today is part of a much842bigger network, even reaching into drug syndication. But to say843we're worried about whether someone who is cutting grass on a844golf course today is undocumented, and we ought to put the845resources of Federal Government into putting them in a846detention facility and deporting them, I don't think that's as847high a priority as the subject of this hearing today.848    Ms. Stephan, let me ask you about criminal forfeiture. Can849you describe, or in most general terms, this is not a quiz or a850bar exam. Why criminal forfeiture being added to this bill is851important?852    Ms. Stephan. Because all of the crime, this works on greed853and on money. So, you being effective means you have to854forfeit. You have to take away the things that they stole. It's855absolutely important because that's what they rely on, which is856profit.857    Senator Durbin. I'm asking you to get down to a little858lower level in your primary education course here on what859criminal forfeiture is.860    Ms. Stephan. Criminal forfeiture is where you take moneys861from bad doers, wrongdoers, because they've committed a crime862and you're able to take cars, their homes, any homes, exactly863anything that is related to their criminal activity.864    Senator Durbin. And there's an expansion of that in this865new bill as I understand it. Is that what you see it as well,866criminal forfeiture?867    Ms. Stephan. I saw criminal forfeiture. I didn't see that868it expanded beyond what is normally allowed, which is a nexus869between the crime and the activity. But I can go back and study870it, Senator.871    Senator Durbin. I should do the same thing. I'm not being872critical of the bill or of your analysis of it, but I'm saying873that the notion for dealing with some network and you find the874kingpins that their personal possessions could be on the table875as well if they're found guilty. Is that correct?876    Ms. Stephan. That's right.877    Senator Durbin. Right. I'm all for it.878    Ms. Stephan. Yes.879    Senator Durbin. That sounds good. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.880    Chairman Grassley. Before I call on Cornyn, I think this881speaks a little bit to what you were just talking about.882Congress and State legislature authorized asset discouragement883for more than 200 years. This legislation asset discouragement.884For convictions of interstate shipment of stolen goods,885transportation of stolen goods and sale or reseed of stolen886goods. The Government uses discouragement to take the profit887out of crime. No one has a right to retain the proceeds of888their ill-gotten gains. Doing so would be an invitation to889commit similar crimes tomorrow and forever. Senator Cornyn.890    Senator Durbin. Mr. Chairman, let me just add at this point891I support that, and I think you do too.892    Chairman Grassley. You bet. Senator Cornyn.893    Senator Cornyn. Thank you all for being here. I was struck894by the fact that in each of your testimony, you highlight the895transnational aspects of this problem. In other words, this is896not just a local crime that DAs would prosecute in San Diego897County necessarily. These are international networks and898criminal organizations.899    And unfortunately, it reminds me of what we've become900familiar with in places like Mexico where the cartels do a lot901of different things, but it's all designed to generate money902for the cartels, whether they steal food, fuel, traffic, and903drugs, or in people. And now, it seems like it's crossed our904borders into the United States, because I note that in the Katy905Mills Mall case that occurred in April 2025, at Katy Mills Mall906in Texas, two of the individuals that were apprehended had907Mexican IDs.908    And then, in the news we hear about, for example, marijuana909farms in California where unaccompanied minors who were allowed910into the country without any real restriction during the Biden911administration were part of the roundup there. ICE, Immigration912and Customs Enforcement estimates that there are as many as913662,000 illegal immigrants currently in the country who have914either criminal convictions or criminal charges pending against915them.916    And it strikes me as this is quite a workforce for some of917these criminal organizations. In other words, things don't stop918at the border. And when people get into the United States who919are unvetted and who have criminal convictions or make crime920their life's work, they've got to be doing something.921    And I wonder, Mr. Glawe, do you think that part of the fact922that we've had these open border policies in recent years that923have allowed unvetted people, these aren't just people who want924to come here to work and have a better life. These are people925who are unvetted. We don't know who they are, but if it926includes such a large contingent of people with criminal927convictions or who are currently charged with crimes, aren't928they part of the workforce that are used by these organized929criminal organizations to do what we're talking about here930today?931    Mr. Glawe. Senator Cornyn, thank you for the question. And932in my current role and past role, we know transnational933criminal organizations know no boundaries. These are billion-934dollar businesses. The Sinaloa Cartel is one of the best known.935It runs like a Fortune 500 company moving people and moving936goods. It's all about the money. These organizations have937connectivity to nation- states and terrorist organizations.938We've seen that. This Committee's well briefed on that and has939oversight on some of those cases.940    Regarding the vetting of individuals and goods, it is941critical component to protect the United States. As the Under942Secretary for Intelligence, I was the head of intelligence at943Customs and Border Protection. I know that very well. And944identifying those criminal actors, those criminal networks,945those terrorists that are coming in and out of the United946States and the goods that are being supplied in and outside of947the country.948    The vetting process is critical, and I think this law,949CORCA is a good step in creating a center to identify the950illicit goods and the people involved with traffic those goods951globally. It's an excellent first step. And we well know this952model, and it works. It's a center of excellence model to our953target and illicit activity that's affecting the United States954and affecting the consumers. Thank you.955    Senator Cornyn. And Senator Durbin raises a concern that956some of the law enforcement authorities that are currently957being used to repatriate or deport people with criminal records958out of the country that somehow that they're being diverted959from other law enforcement activities, but I'll note that960recently, we voted for $170 billion addition to the funding for961ICE for detention facilities and for personnel and training,962and all of our Democratic colleagues voted against it.963    So, I don't know. You really can't have it both ways. But964do you believe that as I do, Mr. Glawe, that that these go hand965in hand in terms of addressing this problem? You can't get at966this problem without dealing with the people who are on the967ground committing these crimes on a daily basis, who are then968connected with these international organizations. Can you?969    Mr. Glawe. In intelligence sharing on individuals and970organizations and the supply chain is critical to have a hub971for information sharing to identify those nefarious actors and972operationalize a response.973    Senator Cornyn. Thank you.974    Chairman Grassley. Senator Hirono, you're next.975    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you-all for976testifying. I think part of the concern regarding the organized977retail crime situation is the lack of, I would say, adequate978information and data. Would you agree that what we should have979a better system of determining how much of this is going on? I980realize that you're here because it is a serious concern, but I981do think that since a lot of this data is not reported to the982National Incident Bank-based reporting, for example, that that983is an area that could be improved. Wouldn't you agree, any of984you?985    Ms. Lemm. I'd just like to comment that I agree. And one of986the things that's been so interesting as we prepare for this987testimony, our own statistics. I agree with you that the stats988that are being reported are maybe a fraction of really the989actual theft that's going on.990    Motor carriers are the eyes and ears of our supply chain.991We see everything. We're the first ones to see if that seal's992broken, right and we're the first ones, because we are held, as993soon as we out gate, responsible for that load. And so, when we994looked at our own statistics for the past 4 years, it's995staggering. And that's why I made the comment about in 2021, we996had 5 reports of cargo theft, 5, and by 2024, we had 876997reports. It's huge.998    Senator Hirono. I think that to the extent that it is999increasing, it would be also helpful that we should have all of1000our large cities in particular reporting in on the incidents of1001these kinds of crimes to the national incident-based reporting1002system that we put together.1003    Now, all of you testified that it's going to require, that1004the enforcement of whatever legislation that we enact will1005require a collaborative enforcement involving federal, State,1006local, and the private sector all working together. And that is1007one of the things that you hope will be created under this this1008law that you that we are contemplating, is that a critical part1009of any kind of a law enforcement effort to get at this crime?1010And I would ask, Ms. Stephan.1011    Ms. Stephan. Yes, exactly. I think being able to put1012together--we did that on a State level and it enhanced our1013ability, and this is why we've been able to get to 2181014organized criminal actors, but we know that it goes well beyond1015that. So, being able to organize a similar thing on a national1016level.1017    Because I can cite you multiple cases, Senator, where this1018same group that we were able to hold accountable in San Diego,1019went to Chicago, Illinois, did damage, went to the State of1020Washington, did damage, and we finally caught them. We're1021unable to prosecute them for those out of State crimes, but we1022were able to join our California crimes together. But we didn't1023have any kind of alert or information, data sharing about what1024to look for. What is the profile, what's coming our way in this1025big jewelry heist that I mentioned? I hope I was--maybe there's1026another question.1027    Senator Hirono. With regard to the data sharing and all1028that, that this is something that Homeland Security would1029supply, is that your expectation under this bill that would1030require Homeland Security to be the depository or repository of1031a lot of the enforcement activity under the contemplated bill?1032    Ms. Stephan. I expect a federal agency to do it because of1033my experience with federal agencies, for example, in the area1034of elder scams, we were simply guessing until the FBI took on1035the leadership of our Elder Justice Task Force. We were able to1036then connect the dots and find out that my seniors were losing1037$98 million a year.1038    Senator Hirono. Excuse me, I am running out of time. So, to1039the extent that there's going to be a much bigger federal1040involvement in enforcement there, there is a concern about what1041is happening at Homeland Security as well as the Department of1042Justice and the diversion of resources and bodies to other than1043prosecuting and going after these kinds of crimes. And1044literally dozens of experienced people who are normally of1045focus on these kinds of crimes, are no longer there.1046    So, we can pass whatever laws we want, but unless there is1047that commitment to enforcement at the federal level, we are1048going to continue to run into resource problems. Thank you, Mr.1049Chairman.1050    Chairman Grassley. Thank you. Senator Blackburn.1051    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Lemm,1052welcome. We know that you and IMC do a great job in Memphis,1053and we appreciate that you are here today before the Committee.1054How long have you worked in logistics?1055    Ms. Lemm. Actually, Thirty-eight years.1056    Senator Blackburn. Thirty-eight years. So, you have seen1057this as Tennessee has grown to be a logistics hub, an1058intermodal hub there in Memphis where you have all of the class1059one railroads. You have the very active port of Memphis which1060is moving a lot of cargo and containers up and down the1061Mississippi River. We have FedEx that is there. And then of1062course, because of that, we have all the trucking organizations1063that are well located in Memphis.1064    I noted in your testimony, you talked about the increase1065from 21 to 24 was a 5,000 percent increase. So, this is an1066astounding number. Now, we all know that weak DAs and weak1067judges that will not abide by sentencing guidelines and lock1068these people up and prosecute them is one of the reasons that1069we have seen this cargo theft explode. So, I want you to talk1070for a minute about what you think has caused this explosion.1071    Ms. Lemm. Well, I absolutely agree that, you know, part of1072it is that there is there's no arrest and there's no1073prosecution. We do have a problem with that, but we also have a1074problem with an understanding of what the magnitude of cargo1075theft actually means so often. And the Memphis Police1076Department does a great job. I will tell you they do respond.1077    Senator Blackburn. Chief Davis.1078    Ms. Lemm. Tremendous job.1079    But in so many ways, cargo theft, we speak almost a1080different language, our terminology many things are very1081different. And so, often when the local police do come, they1082may write this whole theft up as vandalism. They're not able1083immediately to even qualify and quantify what was taken, what's1084the value of what's taken. They see the damage when the fences1085are cut, and it's vandalism as we know it.1086    And so, I think what we like so much about the CORCA bill1087is this outline in this standardization of what is cargo theft?1088What is it? How do we aggregate it? I was talking about motor1089carriers being the eyes and ears of our industry, because we1090are, we don't have a voice. We don't know where to report. We1091need a centralized place to report.1092    I explained the incident in St. Louis where we, you know,1093basically had the ATF calling us right, to tell us that, ``Oh,1094we've got your refrigerators.'' And so, it's this ability to1095connect the dots, local, State, and Federal that we don't have1096today. And you asked the question, you know, about what is it,1097what could we do better in the State of Tennessee? What could1098we do better in Memphis? I think we're doing all that we can.1099    Senator Blackburn. Right. Let's talk for a minute--pardon1100me about, about that, because you're right, it takes passing1101legislation, reframing the conversation, if you will, and then1102putting the parameters around that. But one of the things that1103we've looked at is utilization of technology.1104    Ms. Lemm. Yes.1105    Senator Blackburn. Because of what you're talking about1106with cutting the fences, and then local law enforcement having1107to say, is it something that is vandalism? Or how do we know1108what the extent of the theft is? So, changing the approach and1109gathering that evidence, utilizing technology, speak to that1110importance?1111    Ms. Lemm. Well, 100 percent agree that there are ways1112perhaps we can use technology to help us better record those1113instances. And I think that could be very, very helpful part of1114this whole discussion, too, of reporting resources needed to do1115it. Technology can help us do it faster, more efficiently, more1116effectively.1117    So, I really appreciate you even bringing that up. I think1118you know we've got a very strong technology team in Memphis1119would love to invite you to our headquarters and to have this1120maybe a further discussion about how we could bring in this1121whole idea of technology to help us in this area of cargo theft1122where we badly need standardization, communication, and more1123speed in our ability to collaborate.1124    Senator Blackburn. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1125    Chairman Grassley. Yes, Senator Klobuchar.1126    Senator Klobuchar. Let Senator Padilla to go before me.1127It's fine. He was waiting.1128    Chairman Grassley. Go ahead.1129    Senator Padilla. Thank you for the courtesy. Thank you, Mr.1130Chair. Colleagues, it's clear that across the country,1131policymakers are grappling with how best to respond to this1132dynamic of increasing reports of organized retail crime. It's1133on the news constantly. And as a result, it's not just federal1134officials that are thinking about it, and what can we do about1135it, State officials, local officials, but through our1136collective experience, you know, that effective policymaking1137also, it depends on accurate data.1138    And right now, much of what we hear based on ``shrink1139estimates'' often conflates theft with inventory loss, employee1140error, and internal fraud. And I just can't help but observe1141that without standardized disaggregated data, there's a risk1142that we may find ourselves legislating based on more1143assumptions than actual evidence.1144    So, my first question is for Mr. Glawe. The National1145Insurance Crime Bureau often cites retail shrink data to1146describe the scale of organized retail crime. How do you1147distinguish between organized retail crime as opposed to1148employee theft, inventory mismanagement, or other forms of1149loss?1150    Mr. Glawe. So, Senator, thank you for the question. We have1151been the hub for information sharing for the insurance industry1152and law enforcement for 115 years. So, the claims associated1153with crimes involved, we have access to that.1154    Since 2023, we've seen almost a 50 percent increase in1155cargo theft. So, the cans, in the goods that are inside the1156cans, in the last 18 months, we've seen 240 theft1157investigations and 70 recoveries totaling $40 million that our1158organization's been involved.1159    So, we're actually embedded in the investigations and with1160the analysts at State and local levels. Regarding the1161shoplifting and the shrinkage inside organizations. That data1162is not something that the NICB actually tracks specifically,1163it's the larger volume, the criminal organizations and the1164cargoes associated with it.1165    Senator Padilla. So, that in and of itself, I think is an1166important distinction because the nightly news may not always1167frame it accurately. Would you agree or disagree with that?1168    Mr. Glawe. I would say the cargo theft, we can speak1169specifically who we have the data associated with that, the1170data regarding organized retail theft the crimes, which we know1171are associated with some criminal organizations where the1172supply chain goes overseas, but the actual data associated to1173that, I think this legislation would be a good first step in1174providing some granularity.1175    Because local law enforcement is really one--you're talking1176about that theft reporting of where they get their data from,1177it doesn't resolve necessarily to the federal system or into1178the claims data that we would access according to crimes.1179    Senator Padilla. Right. Let me jump to a different topic.1180Time goes by quickly in this Committee. Organized retail theft1181crosses the State lines and implicates complex networks, which1182you began to touch on, Mr. Glawe, from theft, to transport, to1183resale. But addressing the issue effectively requires the right1184federal partners as well. It's a public-private partnership, if1185we're going to crack down on this with the right tools and1186oversight.1187    Now, the Department of Justice, and the FBI, in particular,1188have a long history of handling multi-jurisdictional property1189crimes with prosecutorial discretion and judicial1190accountability. But CORCA, you referenced the proposal, will1191shift that rule to the Department of Homeland Security raising1192questions about mission creep or surveillance.1193    So, Mr. Glawe, given your background to both national1194security and fraud prevention, do you think DHS is the best1195agency to address an economic property challenge?1196    Mr. Glawe. Senator, again, thank you for the question. And1197I did spend a large part of my career in DHS and the FBI, so I1198have an idea of both organizations. Department of Homeland1199Security, at the ports, you know, Customs and Border1200Protection, we're embedded with them on identifying illicit1201activity in goods going overseas.1202    Specifically, vehicles, were in multiple major ports. We've1203covered a lot of high value stolen vehicles at the ports and1204those goods transiting the ports. CBP is an important1205Interlochen on people and goods traveling across the borders1206and identifying illicit activity. HSI has a long history of1207working transnational criminal organizations as well. We worked1208with them when they were former customs special agents as well1209before 9/11 when DHS was formed.1210    DHS is a logical point of being the center here. But I1211think in partnership is critical with the FBI, our local law1212and State partners, as well as national security, which we1213didn't touch on, is we need to identify these networks that are1214associated with national security threats being terrorism and1215nation-state. So, a center where this can be done is very1216important, and this bill is a good step.1217    Senator Padilla. So, I agree when it comes to the cargo1218dynamic and ports of entry. When it comes to retail as retail1219shops and theft being conducted at that level, I think that's a1220different question, needing a different set of tools,1221experience, and expertise from the Federal partners.1222    Last question. Now, my time is up, but if the Department of1223Homeland Security were to gain access to both business and1224consumer data, again, at the retail level, not through the1225supply chain, how do we prevent that information, that consumer1226business data, from being used for unrelated purposes?1227    Mr. Glawe. Senator, I think the prioritization, as Ranking1228Member Durbin said before on violent criminals, transnational1229criminal organizations that are a threat to the United States1230that transit the borders is critical. This center, the vetting1231of people and goods that travel for threats to the United1232States that are associated with violent criminal organization,1233Mexican drug cartels, as well as terrorist organizations, is1234critical in this center to be a good first step to do that.1235    Senator Padilla. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.1236    Chairman Grassley. Senator Britt.1237    Senator Britt. Thank you, Chairman Grassley, for convening1238today's hearing. And thank you to all the witnesses for taking1239time to be here.1240    I'm proud to be a co-sponsor of the Chairman's bill, and I1241agree that both deterrents and a coordinated response are1242essential to addressing the issue. We know organized retail1243crime and supply chain crime have been a growing problem in1244recent years.1245    So, as my time before I came to the U.S. Senate, I was1246President and CEO of the Business Council of Alabama. This is1247something we dealt with our members across the State, and we1248learned that it's a multifaceted problem and it poses law1249enforcement, economic, and national security challenges.1250    While these activities involve theft, in which and of1251itself is a crime that must be addressed, one of my concerns is1252to the extent in which organized crime in the retail and supply1253chain area are carried out in furtherance of additional illicit1254crimes and to the extent in which that often involves a1255sophisticated criminal network.1256    My first questions are for Mr. Glawe and Ms. Stephan. Based1257on your experience, what are some of the downstream illicit1258activities that are tied to or furthered by the retail and1259supply chain theft?1260    Ms. Stephan. Thank you, Senator, for that question. What we1261do know is when, for example, our ORCA, our organized theft1262task force does these investigations, hundreds of search1263warrants. It's not uncommon to find the retail theft goods1264along with guns and drugs. So, we see that interconnection1265right there.1266    We don't have the federal tools currently to be able to1267then tie those to specific activity into what cartels, what1268organized crime is involved in this particular shipment that we1269have right there, and that's where the bill that you're1270supporting really can come into play and help us.1271    We also know, just from our experience, that the1272intersection of crime, we know that cartels in Mexico, they1273work with our Mexican mafia which is our, LaEme and they then1274issue orders to our local gangs, which then control the human1275trafficking activity. It's very hard to separate. These1276criminal organizations are there based on greed and profit, and1277wherever they can do that, that's what they're doing. They are1278not always specialists, just specialists in retail theft.1279    In a recent case that we did that had the South American1280theft groups that were linked to hundreds of residential1281burglaries, especially targeting our Asian communities, where1282they would watch as they're in their business and they would1283attack their homes while they were away. They would survey in1284those cases, you know, they had pictures on social media, that1285same group with guns and with inviting escort services, which1286is really human trafficking and other things.1287    So, the intersections abound. And I think that having1288those, connecting the dots at a federal level will allow us to1289see the whole framework and be able to then attack that monster1290in a better, more precise, strategic way.1291    Senator Britt. Thank you so much, Ms. Stephan. And Mr.1292Glawe, before you answer not only the downstream illicit1293effect, but also how does this fit into the larger picture of1294these transnational criminal organizations? And kind of speak1295directly to that as well.1296    Mr. Glawe. Thank you for the question. And actually,1297working on the transnational organized crime strategy under two1298administrations, I can speak specifically how important it is1299to have centers so the intelligence and the operation1300coordinating can be put together. The national security threats1301and transnational criminals organizations cannot be stated more1302emphatically that we need these centers to be able to run this1303information against classified data bases to understand if1304these are being sponsored by nation-states, being it North1305Korea, Iran, China, Russia, or these are by terrorist1306organizations.1307    And we know all too well this Committee had oversight on1308the Lebanese Hezbollah bulk cast smuggling involving vehicles1309in 2010, 2015 era. There's historical cases that show the model1310works, but you have to have a center oversight is appropriate1311where you can run classified and unclassified data together1312that brings State, local law enforcement, federal, and the1313private sector together to identify those criminal networks1314that are associated with the highest threats to the homeland.1315    Senator Britt. And let me ask you, in my few remaining1316seconds, you obviously mentioned the center. Can you speak to1317any gaps in information-sharing that may need to be addressed1318in how we actually through the coordination and creation of1319this center can work to actually fill those gaps?1320    Mr. Glawe. So, every center from the Organized Drug1321Enforcement Task Force to the Counterterrorism Center, that we1322know well, the models works there. It'll take time for the1323policies and the strategies to get in place, and of course, to1324correct oversight and the legal parameters to go with it, but1325the public private sector partnership is critical. But also1326bringing together disparate law enforcement organizations from1327the Federal Bureau of Investigations, Homeland Security1328Investigations, to CBP and our national security partners to1329identify the threats that are the biggest to the United States1330is critical. And the center is a good first step.1331    Senator Britt. Excellent. Well, thank you all for being1332here. I have some more questions, but I will submit those for1333the record.1334    Chairman Grassley. Senator Klobuchar.1335    Senator Klobuchar. Hello. Thank you so much for being here.1336I was talking to Senator Whitehouse there about my previous job1337when I was a prosecutor, and we actually set up a whole group1338of prosecutors to work on this retail theft. It seems like our1339problems were simple back then compared to now.1340    But I guess I'll start with you, Ms. Stephan. Could you1341tell me how this federal legislation would ensure that1342criminals who engage in what is actually different than it was1343back then, I'll say that's now organized retail theft, face1344accountability.1345    Ms. Stephan. Thank you, Senator Klobuchar. The cases that1346we've done, which have been 218 cases in over 2 years with $2.61347million loss, show us that there's a footprint and it's outside1348our State. It's across the Nation and an international1349footprint, a recent $8 million jewelry heist. The Rolexes were1350gone overseas with the fence being in Chile.1351    So, it will enhance our ability to be ahead of it, to1352prevent the same type of jewelry heist had happened in the1353State of Washington, but we received no information, our local1354task force to tell us there's this trend be on alert to it1355because it's extremely sophisticated.1356    Senator Klobuchar. That's why that retail crime1357coordination center would be so important----1358    Ms. Stephan. Exactly.1359    Senator Klobuchar [continuing]. If you get that1360information. Mr. Glawe, could you tell me how transnational1361criminal organizations use cargo theft to actually fund other1362illicit operations?1363    Mr. Glawe. We have seen an exponential increase in cargo1364theft over the last 3 years. In 2023, we saw almost a 271365percent increase. We're seeing another 22 percent increase,1366that's a 50--well, we estimate in the end of 2025, we'll up be136750 percent. We know this supply chain is going overseas. We1368know it's going over our border. These stolen goods essentially1369have 100 percent markup. You steal it, and your profits are 1001370percent.1371    So, the question is how do we identify those nefarious1372actors, those networks that are the biggest threat to the1373homeland. As Senator Britt's was talked about, is that's the1374need for those classified data bases to be run against these1375criminal networks. And, you know, well, Senator, this bill1376would provide us the strategic and tactical intelligence to1377address these biggest threats to the homeland, which we have no1378doubt that these supply chains are being used to facilitate1379for.1380    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. And Mr. McBride, I think this1381is an important point. How do the threats of violence by these1382organized retail crime cartels not only threaten the safety of1383store employees, but also make it hard to keep the stores open?1384    Mr. McBride. Thank you for the question, Senator. Yes, it's1385the threat of violence and the actual violence that some of my1386peers have experienced is grown exponentially over the last1387decade. My fellow witness here testified to the attitudes of1388some of the store and shop owners that are concerned for their1389safety when they're operating their shops. The intimidation1390tactics to come back and to be able to revictimize the retail1391locations over and over again is grown so much that we've had1392to implement additional countermeasures, had to implement1393training to keep our employees safe, we've had to lock up and1394hide.1395    All of that leads to a reevaluation of the investment1396that's being made in new stores different locations and those1397types of things. And has in some cases with the entire retail1398sector led to product deserts in some parts of this country1399because stores have had to close up and leave because they1400could no longer sustain a viable operation because of the1401violence, the crime, the theft, and the losses that they are1402incurring.1403    Senator Klobuchar. Very good. Ms. Lemm, last but not least,1404so first of all, thank you for the support for the Ocean1405Shipping Reform Act, the bill that Senator Thune and I did.1406Yes. And as many of you know, that was about the pricing during1407the pandemic that was hurting our farmers and our retail making1408it really difficult.1409    And after we passed that bill on a bipartisan basis, then1410President Biden signed it into law, it actually--the rates went1411down for a number of reasons, but I think the threat of that in1412the Maritime Commission eventually doing rules made a1413difference, and it wouldn't have happened without companies1414like yours.1415    So, just one question on this topic. Do you agree that1416cargo theft poses a risk to the security of our food supply1417chain?1418    Ms. Lemm. I absolutely do.1419    Senator Klobuchar. Can you explain that quickly, why?1420    Ms. Lemm. Yes, Senator, and thank you for the question.1421First of all, food and beverage is the number one targeted1422commodity in cargo theft. Number one. And why? Demand, of1423course. It's so difficult to track. It's so easy to distribute.1424And what is so devastating about that is, you know, the price1425of food we know already is so high. The average American1426cringes every time they go to the grocery store.1427    And what happens with these targeted thefts on food is once1428you have something that's precious, any kind of food, you pick1429it. We see 2, 3, 4 percent stolen. Those costs are immediately1430passed on to the consumer. And you've been very helpful with us1431as we discuss ag exports and what's happened is actually1432targeting agricultural exports, beef, poultry, perishables.1433    And what we also see that's happening because of so much of1434this transnational cargo organization, crime that's happening1435on our railroads, pilferage, yes it may be secondary. We1436believe these thieves are after high value cargo, but in the1437meantime, destruction to our Ag exports as they cut the seals1438and the integrity of load is lost.1439    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. Appreciate it.1440    Chairman Grassley. Senator Moody.1441    Senator Moody. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for1442introducing the Federal legislation, Combating Organized Retail1443Crime Act. I am incredibly proud to be a co-sponsor of that.1444And it is timely, certainly, and needed now more than ever. I'm1445one of the newest Senators here, as you can tell, I sit down1446here at the edge of the dais. And one of the things that has1447shocked me and frustrated me, and that's putting it mildly, is1448when we're dealing with issues like organized retail crime,1449whether that's cargo, or smash and grab, or organized retail1450theft, really this should be a bipartisan effort and how we1451approach it.1452    But I'm always incredibly surprised to hear questioning1453that. Is it really that bad? Like, shouldn't we attribute that1454to something else? Or why is FBI and DHS helping? So, what I am1455finding is that I think in whether it's a Governor or a mayor1456in so many places, and just to be clear, that's the executive1457branch whose responsibility to it is to enforce the law. There1458is almost an ignorance or willful blindness, or maybe it's1459self-promotion over the success and stability of their State or1460city.1461    I don't know what it is, but it is increasingly hard for1462somebody like me that served as a judge and a Federal1463prosecutor and is the wife of a law enforcement officer to1464watch these statements. For example, in one Governor, Newsom1465out of California, went to a cargo theft site and was like, ``I1466don't know what's happening. This looks like a Third World1467country.''1468    In fact, I don't think it's a coincidence that in the last14693 years, the incident rate of cargo theft has gone up 17,0001470percent. And we've also seen unvetted people come into this1471country by the millions and invited into California, and1472nobody's picking up on that. How many times have we heard the1473word transnational criminal organization, transnational1474criminal organization.1475    In fact, we just rolled out more arrests since Trump's been1476in office of people here that have been deported time and time1477again with criminal backgrounds and are stealing from cargo1478freight. In Florida we just arrested a ring of people here from1479Venezuela with ties to Tren de Aragua, who were found to have1480been responsible for dozens of retail thefts in Florida.1481    Now, what I'm happy about is we now seem to have proposed1482legislations that are going to do what we did in Florida. So,1483when I was Attorney General, we launched a data base that1484started tracking these cross jurisdictions. So, where one might1485look like a single theft incident, we were able to then show,1486``Oh no, this was nine jurisdictions, $20 million in loss, 201487different retailers,'' and we charged it that way and1488prosecuted that way and locked them up for the true crime.1489    We also did legislation that expanded the time period on1490which you could tie in these multiple hits and incidents into1491the organized crime. And that is what this proposed federal1492legislation is going to do. But what we have to stop doing is1493saying the problem's not bad when the numbers are staggering.1494    It's costing Americans when we're trying to figure out how1495we're going to afford to put food on the table with1496skyrocketing prices, we don't need built into those prices1497theft that can be avoided if we just have executives understand1498that it is their job, Governors, and mayors to work with law1499enforcement to enforce the law.1500    When you have DAs abdicating their responsibility and1501saying, ``I'm not going to lock anybody up for theft,'' that1502just flows gasoline on the fire. And what did we do different1503in Florida, we actually removed the DAs that wouldn't enforce1504the laws they didn't like. So, in New York, it shouldn't have1505been surprising when they were catching people stealing and1506they said, ``Well, we steal here, but we go in Florida to spend1507our money because in Florida, if we get caught, they'll lock us1508up.''1509    We need a national approach that says we're taking this1510seriously. That is costing Americans money. It's costing us the1511ability to share information across not just county lines1512within a State, but across State lines and then across nation-1513states. This is so important. I cannot stress how important it1514is otherwise. Mr. McBride, you referenced this and I want to1515say to you, you said, ``look, it's costing us so much money.1516Can we even stay open?1517    Miracle Mile was about a third empty, Miracle Mile in1518Chicago, and you had a mayor blaming the businesses that they1519didn't have more security. If that is not shortsightedness in1520the role of an executive in an executive branch, I don't know1521what is. And that is a primary driver of this.1522    Mr. McBride, can you say from your experience, how much do1523you think costs go up as a percentage as a result of this1524organized retail crime?1525    Mr. McBride. So, I cannot speak exactly to a number. I can1526tell you that the losses are absorbed by corporations for as1527much as they possibly can stand. But it does end up coming back1528to the consumer in a lot of different ways, whether there's1529cost of goods, because we have to provide additional inventory1530to cover the gaps that now are missing from the store. Cost of1531security, cost of training, the cost of rehiring associates1532when they no longer feel safe enough to want to work in those1533locations.1534    So, it is a very exponential amount of increased effort and1535costs on the part of every single retailer because every single1536retailer in this country, in every single State, have been1537victimized in some way by these crime groups.1538    Senator Moody. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1539    Chairman Grassley. Senator Whitehouse.1540    Chairman Grassley. And then I don't know whether Senator1541Tillis--are you going to ask questions? I've got to go vote.1542So, you guys will have to work this out here.1543    Senator Whitehouse. [presiding]. We'll manage.1544    [Laughter.]1545    Senator Whitehouse. Ms. Stephan, I think you're the1546prosecutor here on the panel. Is that correct?1547    Ms. Stephan. I believe so, and I'm one that doesn't mind1548prosecuting. So, there have been some comments.1549    Senator Whitehouse. Well, that's usually a good attribute1550in a prosecutor. I wanted to first of all let my colleagues1551know that I'm very happy to work on legislation to focus on the1552organized nature of these theft rings. I'm a little skeptical1553of making ordinary shoplifting a Federal offense, but I think1554we can figure out our way through that as we start to actually1555design legislation. So, I just wanted to open with that point.1556    One of the very powerful laws for dealing with criminal1557organizations, specifically criminal enterprises, as you will1558have figured out from my use of the word enterprise, is the1559RICO statute and both transporting, and selling, or receiving1560stolen goods are RICO predicates. Could you walk us through1561where there have been RICO successes at dealing with these1562systemic theft rings that then obviously have to transport,1563sell, or have somebody receive the stolen goods, and where1564you've run across or your colleagues in law enforcement have1565run across legal impediments to using the RICO statute against1566this predicate offense?1567    Ms. Stephan. So, in California, our State statutes don't1568have an actual RICO component. We don't have the laws as strong1569as the federal side. This is why in our, for example, fentanyl1570task forces and in our Elder Justice Task Force, the cases that1571are solved in the task force are provided where the federal1572prosecutor takes those cases that involve a RICO element1573because it's such a powerful tool. And the State prosecutors--1574--1575    Senator Whitehouse. So, California does not have a State1576RICO law?1577    Ms. Stephan. On the State side, no, we don't.1578    Senator Whitehouse. One of few.1579    Ms. Stephan. We're fighting. We fight for different--we1580have conspiracy laws, but they're not the same as a RICO1581statute.1582    Senator Whitehouse. So, you would have to go to the U.S.1583attorney----1584    Ms. Stephan. Exactly.1585    Senator Whitehouse [continuing]. And work with them in1586order to get a prosecution together. How about your colleagues1587around the country who have State RICO laws? Have they been1588able to bring cases involving transportation sale or receipt of1589stolen goods under those State statutes?1590    Ms. Stephan. They've done, I mean, through NDAA. I know1591there's been a lot of successes in bringing organized retail1592theft cases. San Diego, we've brought 218 cases even under----1593    Senator Whitehouse. But not under RICO?1594    Ms. Stephan. Not under RICO, but under an organized retail1595theft statute which is a little easier to get to. But those1596tools that allow you to go to the higher ups, whether it's1597organized retail theft, or RICO, are absolutely imperative.1598    Senator Whitehouse. Well, I'm going to close out here and1599turn the gavel over to Senator Coons, who is the last Senator,1600can get us in all sorts of trouble alone in the room.1601    Senator Coons. I move the confirmation1602    Senator Whitehouse. Exactly. I would love if you have a1603chance, if there is any particularly helpful document out there1604from the NDAA, for instance, about the use of State RICO1605statutes in this area, or if you have any personal experience1606from your colleagues that would help inform our deliberations1607or if there've been any good uses of your colleagues bringing1608cases to Federal U.S. attorneys and getting RICO prosecutions1609that resulted. I'd love to get that from you. So, I'll make1610that as a question for the record, if I may.1611    Senator Whitehouse. And I thank all the witnesses for being1612here, and I yield back my time.1613    Senator Coons. [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Whitehouse.1614    Senator Whitehouse. Over to you, Senator.1615    Senator Coons. Thank you to the witnesses. And I'd like to1616thank Chair Grassley, and Ranking Member Durbin, and their1617staff pulling together this hearing.1618    Look, this is an important topic all over the country.1619Certainly, in my home State, Delaware, has a retail crime1620prevention task force to examine and better understand this1621issue. And it's a focus for Delaware's Law Enforcement Fusion1622Center. Interstate organized networks present challenges for1623any one State. And so, I'm very open to seeing how we can1624coordinate federal resources and federal legislation to help1625address this and to coordinate intelligence sharing and1626prosecution.1627    How we disrupt organized networks. I think is also1628important that we avoid wasting precious federal resources on1629just minor shoplifters as opposed to those who are actually1630part of an organized effort. I've long been concerned about the1631criminalization of poverty. That's why I've led the bipartisan1632Driving for Opportunity Act with the support of Senators1633Grassley, Tillis, Whitehouse, Blumenthal, and Booker. And I1634think we need to avoid unintentionally exacerbating the problem1635while addressing the critical issue of organized retail theft.1636    Ms. Stephan, thank you for the NDAA's long support of my1637Driving for Opportunity Act. I appreciated how your testimony1638recognized the importance of distinguishing between petty theft1639from sophisticated ringleaders. Could you say just a little bit1640more about that? What sort of indicators are there in1641investigation that you're dealing with, just casual petty theft1642versus those who are committing casual petty theft in order to1643feed into an organized criminal ring?1644    Ms. Stephan. Thank you so much, Senator. And part of having1645the data and having organized task forces helps us make those1646distinctions in a more factual manner, not stereotyping. So,1647being able to look at a track record at the data points. How1648many times has this person been captured doing the same thing1649and stealing the exact same item, which they can't possibly1650need 200 sunglasses. There's got to be another use that isn't1651one that makes it a necessity or something that should be dealt1652with at a lower level, not an organized crime level.1653    So, relying on data. And I think that is part of why I1654support this Federal, is not only to make more prosecutions,1655that's really important, but to distinguish the correct1656organized level and hold those who are really pulling the1657strings. And sometimes they're using vulnerabilities such as1658homeless people trying to feed an addiction. A young kid who's,1659you know wants to have a phone, different things. We've seen1660those solicitations of young people vulnerable people.1661    So, having the correct data at the national level, the1662State level, the local level allows prosecutors to make good1663decisions that comport with justice.1664    Senator Coons. Thank you. I also have to vote. One last1665question, if I might. Mr. Glawe, on behalf of the National1666Insurance Crime Bureau, any thoughts about how we would get1667better data? I mean, you gather data in a very broad way,1668neutral way. How do we make sure that we've got that data, and1669that we're sharing it effectively and broadly?1670    Mr. Glawe. Senator, thank you for the question. So, we1671bring together over 1,200 property and casualty insurance1672carriers, and the claims associated with crime and suspicious1673activity. We've done this for 115 years. We started with auto1674thefts. We were actually the hub for all auto thefts back in16751912. So, this is what we do. And I would say we do it really,1676really well.1677    But that engagement and partnership with State, local law1678enforcement, and the private sector, and my partners to my left1679is critical to this. And we've seen the centers, and I've said1680this throughout my testimony; the Organized Crime Drug1681Enforcement Center, the Counterterrorism Center, the1682Counterproliferation Center, a center to bring us all together1683and unite us public and private sector, but as well as running1684the information against national security threats so we're1685prioritizing resources against the biggest threats to the1686homeland of Mexican drug cartels, terrorist organizations,1687nation-states; Iran, North Korea. We know they're involved in1688organized crimes.1689    Some of the biggest cases I had in the FBI was against1690those organizations. So, a holistic approach. And this bill,1691CORCA, would have that first good first step for us to start1692building that center so we can prioritize resources, and all1693have strategic and tactical intelligence to address this1694threat.1695    Senator Coons. Thank you. That makes great sense to me. I1696appreciate all of your testimony. This will conclude our1697hearing. And any written questions can be submitted for the1698record for 1 week from today. I'll ask the witnesses to answer1699and return those questions to the Committee within 2 weeks.1700    Thank you again, and this hearing is hereby adjourned.1701    [Whereupon, at 11:55 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]1702    [Additional material submitted for the record follows.]1703    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]17041705                            A P P E N D I X17061707The following submissions are available at:17081709  https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-119shrg61886/pdf/CHRG-1710    119shrg1711    61886-add1.pdf17121713Submitted by Chairman Grassley:17141715 American Trucking Association, statement.........................     217161717 Association of American Railroads (AAR), statement...............     517181719 The Home Depot, statement........................................    1317201721 Intermodal Association of North America (IANA), letter...........    1717221723 National Association of Attorneys General, letter................    1817241725 National Association of Manufacturers, letter....................    2417261727 National Insurance Crime Bureau (NICB), letter...................    2517281729 The National Police Association, Endorses the Combating Organized1730    Retail Crime Act, letter......................................    2817311732 National Retail Federation (CORCA) Support, statement............    3117331734 National Retail Federation, statement............................    3617351736 Office of Global Public Policy (ICSC), Organized Retail Crime1737    Legislation, statement........................................    4617381739 Retail Industry Leaders Association (RILA), statement............    5017401741 Ulta Beauty, statement...........................................    5317421743Submitted by Ranking Member Durbin:17441745 The Home Depot, statement........................................    1317461747 Retail Industry Leaders Association (RILA), statement............    5017481749                                 [all]