S.Hrg.119-308

1[Senate Hearing 119-308]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                                                        S. Hrg. 119-30856               HAUSTVEIT, LACERTE, AND PEARCE NOMINATIONS7=======================================================================89                                HEARING1011                               BEFORE THE1213                              COMMITTEE ON14                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES15                          UNITED STATES SENATE1617                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS1819                             SECOND SESSION2021                                   TO2223  CONSIDER THE NOMINATIONS OF KYLE HAUSTVEIT TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF24 ENERGY, DAVID LACERTE TO BE A MEMBER OF THE FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY25  COMMISSION (REAPPOINTMENT), AND STEVAN PEARCE TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE26                       BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT2728                               __________2930                           FEBRUARY 25, 20263132                               __________3334[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3536                       Printed for the use of the37               Committee on Energy and Natural Resources3839        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov4041                               __________4243                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE4462-945                     WASHINGTON : 202645=======================================================================4647               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES4849                        MIKE LEE, Utah, Chairman50JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico51JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon52STEVE DAINES, Montana                MARIA CANTWELL, Washington53TOM COTTON, Arkansas                 MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii54DAVID McCORMICK, Pennsylvania        ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine55JAMES C. JUSTICE, West Virginia      CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada56BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado57CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        ALEX PADILLA, California58LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska               RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona59JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota6061                  Wendy Baig, Majority Staff Director62    Chris Prandoni, Majority Deputy Staff Director and Chief Counsel63                 Jasmine Hunt, Minority Staff Director64                 Sam E. Fowler, Minority Chief Counsel6566                            C O N T E N T S6768                              ----------6970                           OPENING STATEMENTS7172                                                                   Page73Barrasso, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from Wyoming.................     174Lummis, Hon. Cynthia M., a U.S. Senator from Wyoming.............     175Hoeven, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from North Dakota..............     376Lee, Hon. Mike, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Utah............     477Heinrich, Hon. Martin, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from New78  Mexico.........................................................     57980                               WITNESSES8182Haustveit, Hon. Kyle, nominated to be Under Secretary of Energy..     883LaCerte, Hon. David, nominated to be a Member of the Federal84  Energy Regulatory Commission (Reappointment)...................    1385Pearce, Hon. Stevan, nominated to be Director of the Bureau of86  Land Management................................................    188788          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED8990American Exploration and Mining Association:91    Letter for the Record........................................    5292American Exploration and Production Council et al.:93    Letter for the Record........................................    5494Arevia Power:95    Letter for the Record........................................    5796Barrasso, Hon. John:97    Opening Statement............................................     198Bearden, Thomas E.:99    Letter for the Record........................................   104100Bowen, Bo:101    Letter for the Record........................................   106102Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation:103    Letter for the Record........................................    59104Dairy Farmers of America:105    Letter for the Record........................................    61106Family Farm Alliance:107    Letter for the Record........................................    62108Fernandez, Daniel:109    Letter for the Record........................................   107110Fuller, Eric:111    Letter for the Record........................................   110112Fuller, Kathy:113    Letter for the Record........................................   111114Greater Yellowstone Coalition:115    Letter for the Record........................................   155116Harvey, E.P.:117    Letter for the Record........................................   112118Haustveit, Hon. Kyle:119    Opening Statement............................................     8120    Written Testimony............................................    10121    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    83122Heinrich, Hon. Martin:123    Opening Statement............................................     5124Hoeven, Hon. John:125    Opening Statement............................................     3126Huff, Fred D.:127    Letter for the Record........................................   113128Huff, Lynda M.:129    Letter for the Record........................................   114130Independent Petroleum Association of New Mexico:131    Letter for the Record........................................   138132Jalapeno Corporation:133    Letter for the Record........................................   115134Koerper, Joe:135    Letter for the Record........................................   109136LaCerte, Hon. David:137    Opening Statement............................................    13138    Written Testimony............................................    15139    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    90140Lee, Hon. Mike:141    Opening Statement............................................     4142Leyva, Miriam:143    Letter for the Record........................................   117144Lira, Christian:145    Letter for the Record........................................   118146Lummis, Hon. Cynthia M.:147    Opening Statement............................................     1148Lunsford, Douglas L.:149    Letter for the Record........................................   119150McClure, Cassie et al.:151    Letter for the Record........................................   143152Merrion Oil and Gas:153    Letter for the Record........................................    64154Mesilla Valley Transportation:155    Letter for the Record........................................   116156Morgan, Robin:157    Letter for the Record........................................   121158Moutray, Gil:159    Letter for the Record........................................   135160National Mining Association:161    Letter for the Record........................................    66162National Parks Conservation Association:163    Letter for the Record........................................   146164National Stone, Sand, and Gravel Association:165    Letter for the Record........................................   125166New Mexico Association of Conservation Districts:167    Letter for the Record........................................    69168New Mexico Cattle Growers' Association:169    Letter for the Record........................................    70170New Mexico Federal Lands Council:171    Letter for the Record dated January 26, 2026.................    72172    Letter for the Record dated March 3, 2026....................   122173New Mexico Oil and Gas Association:174    Letter for the Record........................................    73175Noble, Jim:176    Letter for the Record........................................   123177Nygren, Buu:178    Letter for the Record........................................    68179Pearce, Hon. Stevan:180    Opening Statement............................................    18181    Written Testimony............................................    20182    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    97183Pueblo de San Ildefonso:184    Letter for the Record........................................    74185Rio Grande Foundation:186    Letter for the Record........................................    75187Salinas, Daniel:188    Letter for the Record........................................   127189Sanborn Map Company:190    Letter for the Record........................................   129191Scherer, Joan:192    Letter for the Record........................................   130193Sharer, William et al.:194    Letter for the Record........................................   132195Specialty Equipment Market Association and Off-Road Business196  Association:197    Letter for the Record........................................   140198Terrazas, Luis M.:199    Letter for the Record........................................    77200350 PDX et al.:201    Letter for the Record........................................   148202Thurston, Ken:203    Letter for the Record........................................   108204Townsend, Ross:205    Letter for the Record........................................   134206Western Energy Alliance et al.:207    Letter for the Record........................................    78208Western Peanut Growers Association:209    Letter for the Record........................................    80210White, Jan:211    Letter for the Record........................................   136212Wyden, Hon. Ron:213    Letter from Congressmen Rob Bishop and Stevan Pearce214      addressed to House Speaker John Boehner, dated November 26,215      2012.......................................................    29216217                        HAUSTVEIT, LACERTE, AND218                           PEARCE NOMINATIONS219220                              ----------221222                      WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2026223224                                       U.S. Senate,225                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,226                                                    Washington, DC.227    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:39 a.m. in Room228SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. John Barrasso,229presiding.230231           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,232                   U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING233234    Senator Barrasso. The Committee will come to order. Senator235Lee will be here momentarily. Good morning. Welcome to all of236you.237    Today, we will hear from three exceptional Americans238nominated for senior positions in the administration, one for239each of the three agencies under this Committee's jurisdiction.240The nominees are the Assistant Secretary of Energy, Kyle241Haustveit, to be the Under Secretary of Energy for the242Department of Energy; Commissioner David LaCerte, renominated243to another term as Commissioner for the Federal Energy244Regulatory Commission; and Congressman Steve Pearce, to be the245Director of the Bureau of Land Management at the Department of246the Interior. I want to thank President Trump for sending all247of these qualified nominees.248    We do have Senator Lummis here, who is going to make an249introductory statement for former Congressman Steve Pearce, and250we are so delighted to have you. I know you are on a tight251schedule, so we will, in the interest of time, turn directly to252you, Senator Lummis.253    Senator King. Will we have a chance for questions, Mr.254Chairman?255    Senator Barrasso. Out of order.256    [Laughter.]257258         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS,259                   U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING260261    Senator Lummis. Well, thank you kindly to my dear colleague262from Wyoming, Senator John Barrasso, and thank you Committee263for allowing me to introduce to you my friend and former264colleague, Steve Pearce, as nominee for Director of the Bureau265of Land Management. And I will tell you, absolutely, without a266doubt, there is just no better person for this job than Steve267Pearce.268    Steve and I served together in the U.S. House of269Representatives. We worked side by side on natural resource270issues that are vital to our western states. And I got to see271firsthand how he operates. He fights for his constituents. He272listens to his constituents. He is one of those rare273Republicans who served in a bright blue state, and the way he274got elected was by constantly going and listening to his275constituents, not just showing up during election years, but276showing up every weekend for family events in the communities277that he represented. And it was such a unique way that he had278secret sauce in his district that it was even featured in the279Wall Street Journal, how he got elected. He is very attuned to280the people he represents. He fights for his constituents. When281New Mexicans needed people in their corner, he showed up every282time.283    So, after decades of serving the people of New Mexico,284Steve came away from this town with an understanding that a lot285of people lack, and that's how the decisions that are made here286work on the ground, how they land in ranching communities,287energy producing counties, tribal nations, and rural economies.288He doesn't see the Bureau of Land Management as a line item in289the federal budget, he sees it as boots on the ground in290communities that depend on how their land is managed. You know,291over time, it's getting to be that fewer and fewer people even292know what BLM stands for. One night, I was watching TV, and293they said, okay, our next guest is the head of the BLM. And I294thought, oh my gosh, we are making news. Little did I know that295the next person to be on the screen was the head of Black Lives296Matter. And I never thought about them as acronyms that297represented such different things to such a different audience.298And that's why it's so important to have someone at the helm at299the BLM who really understands the boots on the ground, the300difference between BLM land and National Park Service land and301U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service land. Very different purposes302for our wilderness areas than our BLM lands, very different303applications of things like FLPMA, that passed in the mid-70s.304And right now, you are facing a nominee who understands those305differences and is truly capable of implementing the law the306way it was designed.307    And while Steve Pearce is a fighter, I can also tell you he308is genuinely kind and thoughtful. We used to sit next to each309other on the floor of the House. We both have a love of the310Taos Society of Artists. And one day, I looked over and he was311flipping through the artist that he and I both love and share312and collect, and it became one of those wonderful relationships313you have with another member, who has an interest outside of314the immediacy of what we deal with. It was such fun because so315many of the things depicted by those artists are the land, the316scenery, the sky, the water, the air that is subsumed on our317BLM lands. So, we have shared many memories in our time in the318House.319    I love his dry sense of humor. It gives a lighter air to320the contention of our jobs. And when things got tough, he'd321keep showing up. He doesn't turn away from those uncomfortable322dialogues. He keeps listening. And he found ways to work across323the aisle to get things done. That is exactly the kind of324leadership BLM needs. Steve holds a core belief that I share--325the people who live and work on our western lands know better326than the people here in Washington what they need and how we327can be stewards of those lands.328    He believes strongly in respecting states and listening to329local expertise. He knows that Washington should partner with--330not dictate to--western communities. He knows responsible331economic development can transform communities and lift332families while preserving these magnificent landscapes that we333represent. You know, there is just no one better to head the334Bureau of Land Management. Steve Pearce has the experience, the335vision, the tenacity, and the heart. This is a man with the336heart to do this job well. So, I strongly support his337nomination and I urge my colleagues to confirm him.338    Mr. Chairman, thank you so much.339    The Chairman [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Lummis.340    We are now going to turn to Senator Hoeven, and after that341Senator Heinrich and I will give our respective opening342statements, and we will proceed from there.343    Senator Hoeven.344345            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN HOEVEN,346                 U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH DAKOTA347348    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to both349you and Ranking Member Heinrich, I appreciate you holding the350hearing today, and I appreciate this opportunity to welcome351Kyle Haustveit back in front of this Committee. And it wasn't352that long ago you were here, and you are back, for very good353reasons, with, I think, just a great decision by President354Trump to nominate you for this new role at the Department of355Energy.356    Kyle has served at the DOE with distinction. He was the357Assistant Secretary for Hydrocarbons and Geothermal Energy and358doing a great job in that role. And we have worked closely with359him, so I know that firsthand. His background in energy is360diverse, whether it's fossil fuels, but all types of energy, it361really is impressive. And now, he is nominated for the Under362Secretary for Energy slot, the third-ranking position in the363Department of Energy, and does a great job in that role, along364with Chris Wright, who also, I know personally and has done a365fantastic job and James Danly, who we all know from his time at366the FERC. So, just an outstanding team leading the Department367of Energy.368    Also, welcome and congratulations to Brea, his wife, and369their four children, I think--I see three. I am missing one,370but oh, yes, my gosh, she is a young lady. I missed that. Are371you Nevaeh? Am I saying that right?372    Nevaeh: Nevaeh.373    Senator Hoeven. Nevaeh. Well, welcome to you. I bet you're374a good babysitter for the other three. I'm just guessing. Yeah.375Harper, Noah, and Hudson. So, welcome to all you guys.376    Hudson, what happened to your wrist? Huh? You playing some377sports? Oh, okay. I know how that goes.378    Brea is from Kenmare, so that's not too far from where I379grew up northwest of Minot there. So, you have a beautiful380family. And I guess you better--Kyle, you've got to be on your381game, man, because it sounds like the parents are watching382remotely--your parents, Tom and Donna, and grandparents, Dewey383and Phyllis. So, you are going to really have to be on your384game today, man. But again, congratulations to them as well.385Born in Fargo--we love that. And raised in Tioga. So, again,386another person from Northwest North Dakota, like myself and387your wife, and grew up living the energy economy in the388Williston Basin. So, I mean, it's in his blood. A third-389generation energy worker, petroleum engineer by training, but390innovator and a problem solver. Co-invented a patent in391hydraulic fracturing, a technique that's now used across392multiple shale basins, and technology that, as both the393Chairman and Ranking Member know, of that incredible unlocking394of energy from shale across the nation, both oil and natural395gas.396    And we have been working on what we call in North Dakota397``Crack the Code 2.0.'' So Crack the Code 1.0 was when we398figured out how to produce oil and gas out of shale399economically. Obviously, we knew we could do it from a400technological standpoint for years, but the key was making it401commercially viable. And we worked on that, actually back402during my days as Governor in that 2000-timeframe. And of403course, with directional drilling and hydraulic fracturing now,404you know, we have unlocked the shale plays, not only in the405Bakken, but in Texas, the Permian Basin, and the Eagle Ford and406in New Mexico in a big way, and of course, the Marcellus up in407this part of the country. So, it has absolutely been a408revolution in terms of energy for the country. Now, Crack the409Code 2.0 is using enhanced oil recovery to double that410production. And we are going to do it, even, Cynthia, in places411like Wyoming, if you can imagine that. It's a big deal.412    Senator Lummis. It's a big deal.413    Senator Hoeven. And Kyle understands this at the level that414is going to enable us to crack that code a second time, and it415has huge ramifications for our country. And that's why it's so416important he has been nominated for this position of leadership417at the Department of Energy. So, with that, again, thank you,418Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member for the opportunity to419introduce Kyle Haustveit.420    The Chairman. Thanks so much, Senator Hoeven, and thank you421Senator Lummis, for joining us. We will go ahead and have the422witnesses make their way to the table now, but before we start423with you, go ahead and have a seat now. Senator Heinrich and I424will now give our respective opening statements.425426              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE LEE,427                     U.S. SENATOR FROM UTAH428429    The Chairman. Today's nominees have been nominated to430positions that have a lot of challenges before them, and they431will face monumental tasks and stakes that go beyond the432responsibilities and the duties of just any one agency. They go433to a basic question: Can the United States govern its resources434in a way that is capable of meeting the moment? Electricity435demand is rising at a pace that we haven't seen in decades.436Data centers, advanced computing, and the return of domestic437manufacturing are pushing our grid to its limits. Wide438stretches of the American West are under federal management,439and decisions made in Washington can make or break the440communities that surround those lands.441    Our foreign adversaries recognize the implications that are442at play. They are expanding their production and strengthening443their control over mineral supply chains. In past years, we444watched the Biden regime partner with the progressive445environmental lobby to willfully ignore some of those realities446and instead layer447on rules holding American-made energy hostage for unrealistic,448unachievable environmental objectives. Domestic energy449production was blocked at every turn. We became dangerously450reliant on foreign supply chains from adversarial countries451that are not, to say the least, all that interested in seeing452America succeed. Rather than treating American energy and453mineral resources as strategic assets, they instead treated454them as liabilities to be phased out and to be kept in the455ground in perpetuity. We saw a governing philosophy that456ignored the people most directly affected by their decisions.457Local officials, county commissioners, tribal leaders, and458small businesses showed up, offered their expertise, and then459watched painfully as the final outcome bore little resemblance460to what they put on the record. That approach deepened distrust461and deeply damaged the relationship between Washington and462communities throughout America that were forced to live with463consequences made hundreds, sometimes thousands of miles away.464    Each of you, if confirmed for the position for which you465have been nominated, each of you will have tasks before you466that involve reversing that course. At the Bureau of Land467Management, that means administering some 245 million acres of468public land and 700 million acres of mineral estate under469multiple-use and sustained-yield mandates that have been470outlined over the years by law, by Congress. And at the471Department of Energy, that means overseeing the office's472responsibility for electricity, nuclear energy, hydrocarbons,473geothermal, cybersecurity, the strategic petroleum reserve, and474the emergency grid authorities Congress has provided under the475Federal Power Act. And at FERC, it means exercising regulatory476judgment over interstate transmission, wholesale markets,477natural gas infrastructure, and the orders that shape478investment across our entire economy.479    What matters now is how that authority will be exercised.480Will America's resources be developed here at home or will we481be forced to rely on foreign competitors? Will communities have482a genuine seat at the table or will they simply be notified483after the fact that their concerns have been disregarded? I484look forward to hearing from each of you on how you will intend485to carry out the duties and the responsibilities of the486respective offices to which you have been nominated. Thank you.487    And the Chair now recognizes Senator Heinrich, the Ranking488Member of this Committee.489490          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARTIN HEINRICH,491                  U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO492493    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.494    The Committee has previously considered nominations for two495of the nominees before us this morning. The Senate confirmed496Mr. Haustveit's nomination to be the Assistant Secretary of497Energy for Fossil Energy last September and Mr. LaCerte's498nomination to serve the final year remaining on a vacant seat499on the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. But the Committee500still has an obligation to examine Mr. Haustveit's501qualifications for the broader responsibilities that he will502have, if confirmed, to be the Under Secretary of Energy, and we503must consider whether Mr. LaCerte has earned an additional504five-year term on the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.505    Our third nominee poses a somewhat greater challenge for506us. Congressman Pearce, who I have long-known and often worked507with, has been nominated to be the Director of the Bureau of508Land Management. If confirmed, he will become the steward of509more than 244 million surface acres of public land and another510700 million acres of subsurface minerals. The Federal Land511Policy and Management Act, the law that established the Bureau512of Land Management, prescribes how the Director is to perform513his important duties. It says that he is to manage the lands514and resources under his jurisdiction as public lands. They515belong to the public, not to any special interest, but to the516American people as a whole, and not to our generation alone,517but to future generations as well. The Public Lands Charter518calls for them to be managed for fish and wildlife as well as519for energy and mineral production, for recreation as well as520resource development. Their value is to be measured not in521economic returns or unit output alone, but also in the522intangibles of scenic, scientific, historic, and archeological523values.524    A friend of mine likes to describe public lands as the525anvil on which our collective western identity was forged. I526think that kind of sums it up. The Federal Land Policy and527Management Act says that our public lands are to be retained in528federal ownership and managed to best meet the present and529future needs of the American people, and where appropriate,530preserved and protected in their natural condition without531permanent impairment. The Act tells us that the Director must532be someone who will carry out these functions and perform these533duties in accordance with these principles. Congressman Pearce534has had a long career in public life, and he is well-known to535many of us. He has served seven terms in the House of536Representatives and three terms as the head of the Republican537Party in my home State of New Mexico. As a public official, he538has cast many votes and made many public statements. In some of539the positions that he has taken, he called for the selling off540of public lands. That makes it challenging for me to view his541tenure--his potential tenure at the BLM--as one of stewardship.542    And so, my questions today will largely reflect not just543those reservations, but the conversations that we had in my544office yesterday, Congressman. And it is, of course, the545President's prerogative to nominate who he wants, but it is546also the responsibility of those of us on this Committee to547assess Mr. Pearce's nomination and to recommend whether or not548the Senate should confirm him. For much of our nation's549history, our predecessor committee proudly bore the title ``The550Public Lands Committee.'' Oversight of the public lands was our551original purpose, and it remains one of our foremost552responsibilities. To discharge this trust, we depend heavily on553the dedicated public servants at the Bureau of Land Management,554who devote their careers and their lives to the care of our555public lands, and we depend on the Director of the Bureau to556carry out the functions of his office in accordance with our557laws and with FLPMA. Our hearing today is Congressman Pearce's558opportunity to make his case for his nomination and to share559his vision of how he would manage the public lands, if560confirmed, and to allay our concerns. I look forward to hearing561from him.562    Thank you.563    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Senator Heinrich.564    Okay, our first witness today will be the honorable Kyle565Haustveit of North Dakota, nominated to be the Under Secretary566of Energy. That's the third highest ranking officer in the567Department of Energy, with broad jurisdiction over many offices568and programs at the Department of Energy. He currently serves569as the Assistant Secretary of Energy for Hydrocarbons and570Geothermal Energy, a position to which the Senate confirmed him571last year. And in that position, he currently already plays a572leading role in investing in resource development and573implementation of fossil-fuel-derived projects and574strengthening American energy dominance in critical mineral575supply. Prior to his current service, Mr. Haustveit worked on576energy issues in the private sector, and he's a graduate of577Montana Technical University and the University of Oklahoma.578    Our second witness today is the honorable David LaCerte of579Louisiana, renominated to his current position as Commissioner580of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. FERC, of course,581is charged with developing electricity and natural gas at582reasonable prices and has jurisdiction over interstate583electricity transmission and wholesale electricity sales, as584well as interstate transportation and sales of natural gas, in585addition to regulating hydroelectric facilities. Mr. LaCerte is586also no stranger to this Committee, as he, too, was confirmed587to his current post by this Committee and by the Senate just a588few months ago. He's got a distinguished career at both the589federal and state levels in government in addition to his590deployment as a United States Marine in Afghanistan. Mr.591LaCerte is a lawyer. He served as a lawyer, among other things,592at Baker Botts and graduated from Nicholls State University and593Louisiana State University.594    Our final witness today is, of course, the honorable Stevan595Pearce of New Mexico, nominated to be the Director of the U.S.596Bureau of Land Management (BLM) within the Department of the597Interior. Congressman Pearce has a long record of public598service, representing New Mexico's Second Congressional599District in the House of Representatives for 14 years. Prior to600that, he served in the New Mexico State Legislature. He also601served as a pilot in the Air Force during Vietnam, where he was602decorated for his actions during combat missions. He is a603graduate of New Mexico State University and Eastern New Mexico604University. His service as an elected official from a western605state provides him with the necessary experience and expertise606to run BLM.607    Before the witnesses begin their testimony, I will swear608them in. So, if each of you will please stand and raise your609right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are610about to give to the Committee will be the truth, the whole611truth, and nothing but the truth?612    [Witnesses sworn.]613    The Chairman. Let the record reflect that each witness614responded in the affirmative.615    You may be seated.616    Also, it is the Committee's practice to ask the following617three questions of all nominees who appear before us for618confirmation.619    First, will you be available to appear before this620committee and other congressional committees to represent the621positions of your agency and respond to issues of concern to622Congress?623    Mr. Haustveit. Yes.624    Mr. LaCerte. Yes.625    Mr. Pearce. Yes.626    The Chairman. All three witnesses responded in the627affirmative.628    Second, are you aware of any personal holdings,629investments, or interests that could constitute a conflict of630interest, or create the appearance of such a conflict of631interest, should you be confirmed and assume the office to632which you have been nominated?633    Mr. Haustveit. No.634    Mr. LaCerte. No.635    Mr. Pearce. No.636    The Chairman. All three witnesses responded in the637negative.638    And third, are you involved in or do you have any assets in639a blind trust?640    Mr. Haustveit. No.641    Mr. LaCerte. No.642    Mr. Pearce. No.643    The Chairman. All three witnesses responded in the644negative.645    With that, I will now invite each of the nominees to offer646their opening statements and to introduce their guests with647them, if they choose to do so. We will begin with Secretary648Haustveit.649650                 STATEMENT OF KYLE HAUSTVEIT,651           NOMINATED TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF ENERGY652653    Mr. Haustveit. Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich, and654distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the655opportunity to appear before you today. I am deeply honored to656be considered for the role of Under Secretary of Energy at the657U.S. Department of Energy. I want to express my sincere658gratitude to President Trump for my nomination and to Energy659Secretary Wright for his support. Thank you to Senator Hoeven660for the kind introduction. Thank you to my family and friends661here with me today and those watching online. Here with me is662my high school sweetheart, best friend, and wife, Brea, our663four children, Nevaeh, Harper, Noah, and Hudson, along with664several close friends. Thank you all for your love and support.665I want to give thanks to my lord and savior Jesus Christ for666his grace and guidance in this journey.667    I was born and raised in North Dakota, just a few miles668from the historic Williston Basin discovery well. My family's669roots run deep in both energy and agriculture. One grandfather670managed drilling operations while the other farmed our family671homestead, where he and my grandma still live today. Growing672up, I developed a profound appreciation for both industries,673and the critical role energy plays in modern agriculture, from674fueling tractors to providing the fertilizers that nourish our675crops. I am proud to say that I am a third-generation energy676worker. My family's connection to energy spans decades, and677their hard work instilled in me a deep respect for the industry678and its importance to our nation.679    With a small nudge from my late grandfather, I pursued a680degree in petroleum engineering at Montana Tech, followed by an681MBA in energy from the University of Oklahoma. This combination682of engineering and economic study has been instrumental in683shaping my career and preparing me to address the challenges684and opportunities in the energy sector. Early in my career, I685was fortunate to lead a team that invented and commercialized a686diagnostic technique now used globally to optimize hydraulic687fracturing and resource development. This experience sparked a688growing passion for energy and technology, which led me to689leading an Energy Ventures team. In this role, our team had the690privilege of investing in early-stage technologies rooted in691fundamental science, including a leading next-generation692geothermal company with operations in Nevada, and a 500-693megawatt development underway in Utah. Our team also conducted694technical evaluations for innovative projects, such as a direct695lithium extraction from brine in Arkansas and California,696carbon capture utilization and sequestration in Wyoming, and697produced water treatment and beneficial reuse in New Mexico.698These experiences have given me a front-row seat to the699incredible innovation happening in our energy industry across700our resource-rich nation.701    I have been blessed to build my career during one of the702most transformative periods in energy history--the shale703revolution. The shale revolution was brought about by industry704and enabled in part from fundamental research from our705tremendous national laboratories. This technological706breakthrough moved the U.S. from the world's largest importer707of LNG to the world's largest exporter, positioning us as the708global leader in oil and natural gas production, transforming709us from energy dependent to energy dominant. The energy710industry has not only powered our nation, but it has also711fueled economic growth, strengthened national security, and712improved the quality of life for millions of Americans and our713allies around the world. U.S. natural gas has delivered714affordable, reliable, and secure energy, and at the same time,715reduced the emissions from electricity generation by more than71640 percent.717    It has been a privilege to contribute to this progress, and718I am passionately aligned with President Trump's common-sense719energy agenda, an agenda that will ensure that future720generations have access to affordable, reliable, secure, and721abundant energy made in America. If confirmed, I will honor the722fundamentals of science and economics to serve our country. I723am committed to advancing policies that unleash U.S. energy724dominance, foster innovation, and ensure that America remains a725global leader in energy production and technology. If726confirmed, I will work to leverage the incredible talents727within DOE and our national laboratories to drive forward728cutting-edge research and development. It's an honor of a729lifetime to contribute to the mission of the President and the730Secretary to fuel peace and prosperity through energy. Thank731you for your time and consideration. I look forward to your732questions.733    [The prepared statement of Mr. Haustveit follows:]734    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]735736    The Chairman. Thank you, Assistant Secretary Haustveit.737    Commissioner LaCerte.738739  STATEMENT OF DAVID LACERTE, NOMINATED TO BE A MEMBER OF THE740      FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION (REAPPOINTMENT)741742    Mr. LaCerte. Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich, and743distinguished members of the Committee, good morning. I am744grateful for the opportunity to appear before you again today.745Thank you to President Trump for renominating me to serve a746full term on the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, and747thank you to this Committee for your time. Thank you to my748family, who are at home today in Louisiana. Public service can749be a tremendous burden, and this burden disproportionately750falls not only on the appointee, but on their loved ones. Thank751you for the grace you continue to give me while I serve the752American people.753    I would like to briefly speak to our accomplishments since754I have been seated at FERC, my commitments made to you in the755fall, and address what you can expect to see from me if I am756given the honor of serving a full term as Commissioner. At my757first open meeting, we proposed rulemakings to expand the758successful pipeline certification program for both759hydroelectric and liquefied natural gas facilities. We760prioritized cutting red tape, advancing stalled projects, and761ensuring that permits are issued in a timely and legally762defensible manner. I want to pause on LNG for a moment.763Utilizing our vast natural resources is not just an economic764advantage, it's a geopolitical necessity that ensures our765allies are fueled by reliable American energy rather than the766coercion of our adversaries. Critical to this goal was767maintaining and developing a robust export infrastructure here768in the U.S., a mission-critical task that I am focused on769achieving. I have also been very vocal about the need to770declutter the Commission's dockets. Proceedings that linger for771years serve no one. They create uncertainty for investors,772delay critical infrastructure, and erode confidence in the773regulatory process.774    Since my first month, I have supported action to remove775outdated regulations and issue timely orders, and I will776continue striving for more efficient and disciplined processes777at FERC. In our second month, we demonstrated our commitment to778powering America's leadership in artificial intelligence and779advanced technologies while protecting ratepayers. This may be780the defining competitive challenge of our generation. If we are781not the world's leader in AI, our adversaries surely will be.782We need to meet this moment, and we will do so without783sacrificing affordability. In December, we issued an order784addressing service to large load--including data centers--co-785located with generating facilities, through revisions to PJM's786Tariff. I recognize this represents a first step in a very long787road, but I am proud of the decisive action the Commission788took.789    At a time when energy demand is rising and reliability790challenges are mounting, the Commission has acted with focus,791efficiency, and disciplined urgency. Year-to-date, we have792already issued 18 percent more orders over the same time period793in 2025. Since I have joined the Commission, we have voted in794nearly 300 proceedings and authorized the addition of 4.14795million dekatherms of natural gas transportation capacity,796enough to support the electricity needs of 13 to 18 million797American households. That pace will accelerate as we remove798distractions and focus on what matters within our statutory799jurisdiction. By narrowly focusing on that jurisdiction, we are800building, we are advancing, and we are strengthening energy801security for our nation.802    I made commitments to these Senators across the aisle about803how I would approach this work, and I welcome accountability804for those commitments. From my first open meeting, I stated805plainly, my duty is to the ratepayer. There are always people806looking to curry favor for one project or one industry. And I807meant what I said: none of those people represent the808ratepayer. I do. My commitment to the ratepayer has not809wavered, and this commitment will not relent for as long as I810have the privilege to serve.811    On affordability and reliability, I am fully all-in. Growth812must not come at the expense of ordinary Americans already813concerned about their energy bills. It is our duty as814Commissioners to fully protect ratepayers from undue costs, and815to power American industry for load growth and re-816industrialization. We can do both and we must do both. In the817fall, this body asked me to commit to resource neutrality as818required by the law. I have demonstrated that commitment and I819will continue to do so. This body also asked me to commit to820upholding FERC's independence. I will always uphold that821commitment. The value of this Commission to markets, to822investors, and to the American public depends on its823credibility as an independent decision-making and rate-setting824body. FERC's decisions are subject to judicial review by the825courts, and I will ensure those decisions are respected and826carried out in the interest of the people and in accordance827with the law.828    Will I continue to seek input from all stakeholders?829Absolutely. Sound decisions require broad engagement, but830consultation does not compromise independence. My duty is to831the law and to the statutory responsibilities entrusted to the832Commission. We have several monumental challenges facing our833grid, any of which would be generational in nature. I am834confident that we can empower American innovation to see us835through these challenges to the more efficient, more powerful,836and more affordable grid of tomorrow.837    Thank you for your consideration. I look forward to your838questions.839    [The prepared statement of Mr. LaCerte follows:]840    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]841842    The Chairman. Thanks, Commissioner.843    We will hear now from Congressman Pearce.844845  STATEMENT OF STEVAN PEARCE, NOMINATED TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE846                   BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT847848    Mr. Pearce. Good morning and thank you, Chairman Lee and849Ranking Member Heinrich for your leadership on this Committee.850I am deeply grateful for the support of my family and friends851who are with us today or watching on C-Span. I especially want852to recognize my strong and amazing wife, Cynthia, our daughter853Lori, our grandson Preston, his wife Erin, our granddaughter854Olivia, and my brother, Greg. I am honored to be nominated by855President Trump to serve as the Director of the Bureau of Land856Management. Growing up in a large family on a small five-acre857farm--a New Mexico farm--the concept of preserving and858conserving the land and water was instilled in me through859necessity and it was refined by the training I received in 4-H.860    During my years at New Mexico State University, I worked861every holiday and summer in the oil fields to pay for college.862In my junior year, I won the draft lottery and got free flying863lessons and an all-expense paid trip to Vietnam. After864graduation, I went straight to USAF pilot training, then my865first assignment was flying combat missions in Vietnam in 1971,8661972, and 1973, where I earned the Distinguished Flying Cross867and multiple Air Medals and developed a love for veterans and868aviation that exists today still. In 2016, while still a Member869of Congress, I flew my single-engine, 4-seat Mooney aircraft,870solo, circumnavigating the globe in 15 days, dedicating the871effort to the warriors who never made it home. I continue to872fly and work for veterans today.873    When I got back from Vietnam, I experienced the healing874serenity of backpacking in wilderness areas across the country.875In 1981, I married my wife, Cynthia, and together we bought a876small, struggling oil field service business, and for 14 years,877I learned the art of repairing problem oil wells. We were878basically plumbers working 5,000 feet deep. Running a small879business fit well with the values with which I was raised--work880hard, treat others fairly, provide good customer service. We881sold the business in 2003. I served seven terms representing882the 2nd District of New Mexico, a majority-minority district,883which was 34 percent registered Republicans. The district was88470,000 square miles--larger than the State of Florida--with885about one-third of the state being federal land. The 2nd886district provided many examples of what multiple use means.887Hunting and access and outdoor sports are drivers of one local888economy. In another area, oil and gas provide the jobs, and yet889another has national parks and monuments. The district had890mining, grazing, forests, wildfires, wilderness areas, and was891home to Native American pueblos, tribes and chapter houses.892    Much of my life is a life of service, and I am proud of893that. During my 14 years as a Congressman, I traveled the894district extensively, seeing firsthand the problems faced by my895constituents, who, like my parents, work hard every day trying896to provide for their families. I also saw what the Founding897Fathers feared--a Federal Government acting as an absentee898landlord, which, instead of partnering with states and local899communities, rules over them. After a devastating wildfire, the900Forest Service assigned local ranchers in my district to901grazing lands as far away as Wyoming. The cost of trucking902cattle that distance would have led to the extinction of small903ranchers and collapse of the local economy. My staff identified904nearby allotments that had not been grazed for years and905lobbied the Forest Service to open those. The agency initially906stood its ground but ultimately could not dispute the facts.907The ranchers and the local economy survived. I was gratified to908include funding in an early appropriations process to clean out909the sediment threatening the health of the Blue Hole of Santa910Rosa, a popular recreational spring in the New Mexico desert.911We got word shortly after that the agency had repurposed these912funds. I am proud of my efforts to claw the funds back to clean913out the spring for future generations.914    These examples show my distinct dedication to working with915local stakeholders and the Federal Government to ensure our916land managers are making decisions based on local input and in917accordance with the law. If confirmed, I fully intend to uphold918these same principles as BLM Director and ensure local input is919a key factor in my decision-making. I have also seen firsthand920the importance of our public lands and support those missions921completely. I met many of the dedicated public servants who922make the federal agencies work, and together we accomplished923amazing things. When the lesser prairie chicken was at risk of924being listed as endangered, my office worked with all the925stakeholders to establish a voluntary process to increase926habitat and prevent a listing. I believe that we can duplicate927those efforts to solve not only endangered species, but928orphaned wells, abandoned mines, and many issues, including929providing clean and plentiful water.930    President Trump has proven we can achieve his vision of931energy dominance while providing clean air, water, and soil. We932must preserve the natural spaces so that all people have access933to the spiritual beauty of the outdoors, where hunting and934fishing can be passed down from one generation to the next,935where critical minerals can be developed, freeing us from936dependence on China, and Native American lands and resources937can be protected. The security and economic health of the938country, especially the western states, rests squarely on the939shoulders of the BLM. We can and must balance the different940uses of public lands. Local economies and future generations941depend on us doing our job right. Thank you, and I look forward942to your questions.943    [The prepared statement of Mr. Pearce follows:]944    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]945946    The Chairman. Thank you very much.947    We will now begin our five-minute rounds of questions,948alternating between Republicans and Democrats in order of949seniority, subject to the early-bird rule, and we will begin950that now.951    Assistant Secretary Haustveit, let's start with you. My952state, the State of Utah, has enormous geothermal potential,953and the office that you currently lead at the Department of954Energy funds geothermal research and development. Can you talk955about some of the exciting work that has been going on in that956office, the one that you currently lead, when it comes to957developing and commercializing geothermal power at scale?958    Mr. Haustveit. Senator, thank you for the question.959    To start with, we share oftentimes that the problem960statement for geothermal today is identical to that of the961shale revolution 25 years ago. We have a vast resource in place962that lacks the natural permeability to produce at commercial963rates. That was the same problem statement for oil and gas 25964years ago. We solved that with horizontal wells and multi-stage965stimulation. It's the same problem statement for geothermal966today. And one of the methods to extract that resource is with967horizontal wells and multi-stage hydraulic fracturing. A968project in your home state, FORGE, funded by the Department of969Energy, was groundbreaking. It provided critical drilling970information, which led to commercial leasing and now active971development of a 500-megawatt resource in Southwest Utah. Along972with that, just this morning, we announced the Department's973largest-ever funding opportunity for geothermal, $171.5974million, focused on reservoir characterization and pilot-scale975demonstrations.976    On the resource characterization, what's important about977that is, the western part of the country is not as well978explored as many of the shale basins. The shale basins had a979benefit because most conventional basins exist on top of an980unconventional shale. So, we have drilled through these981resources for over 100 years, and with that, we have logged it982and we can map it. We lack that information in the subsurface983in the West. And that's part of the reason that one of our984topic areas is to do exactly that--help support the industry985and de-risk in the resource of finding more hot rock that we986develop commercially. Our goal is to take geothermal out of the987other bucket. When you look at the energy stack, you see this988sliver of energy that sits on top of all the other primary989energy sources. Our goal is to provide cost-competitive,990gigawatt-scale power generation from the vast amounts of991geothermal resource in the United States.992    The Chairman. So, your hope is that on those western lands993that are not as well known, that haven't been as thoroughly994explored, to help replicate some of that so as to create the995information necessary that would lead to more lease sales and996more utilization for geothermal.997    Mr. Haustveit. Yes, Senator, that's correct.998    The Chairman. Thank you.999    Commissioner LaCerte, natural gas is the backbone of the1000modern electrical grid in America. Without access to natural1001gas, without access to, you know, very plentiful supplies of1002natural gas at reasonable prices, there would have been1003widespread outages across the East Coast just during the most1004recent winter storm. We don't even have to go back more than a1005few days to cover that. Looking back at your first few months1006as a member of FERC, how has FERC moved the needle on clearing1007the backlog for natural gas pipelines and LNG facilities?1008    Mr. LaCerte. That's a great question, Senator, thank you1009very much and thank you for acknowledging the work that natural1010gas has done to keep the lights on, keep homes warm, and quite1011frankly, save people's lives over the past several weeks as1012most of the country had gone into deep freeze, a really1013unprecedented deep freeze where gas has really done all of the1014heavy lifting. And at FERC, I think, you could see--I mentioned1015in my opening that we have approved more gas in the first four1016months during my tenure here than we have in quite a while. We1017are going to continue to keep that work and we are going to1018continue to right-size NEPA under Seven County. We are going to1019continue to hold our states to the fire and then make sure they1020are making smart, right decisions for a lot of generation1021siting, and quite frankly, we need to focus more on natural gas1022as the reliable, clean energy source that it is.1023    And you're right, you can see moving up and down the East1024Coast, the areas that have an abundant supply of natural gas1025through our pipelines faired much better than the areas that1026did not. So, we think that we are very blessed geologically in1027our country to employ these molecules, to put them to work, and1028we need to do a better job of that across the board.1029    The Chairman. With those pipelines, I completely agree, the1030pipeline infrastructure is essential to that. What do you see1031as the biggest obstacles slowing that and threatening the1032progress on that front?1033    Mr. LaCerte. Well, I think you see that here. I think we1034have struggled with the Clean Water Act certifications for1035quite a while. I personally do not believe that one state1036should be able to hold hostage a whole region of the country to1037accessing clean natural gas. That is an issue before you, and I1038look forward to Congress addressing that.1039    The Chairman. Great. Thank you.1040    Senator Heinrich.1041    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman. Welcome to all of1042you.1043    Congressman, I am going to start with you, and when I1044looked at the constituent communication with respect to your1045nomination, there were two issues that dominated 90-plus1046percent of it. We discussed these yesterday. The first is the1047issue of the potential broad-scale divestment of public lands,1048and this is something that came up with Secretary Burgum in his1049nomination as well. And I think he did a good job of talking1050about how, while it may be completely appropriate to divest of1051certain isolated parcels of public land for affordable housing1052and other public purposes, that there wouldn't be a broad-scale1053selling off of the public lands. And because of some of your1054previous writings and statements, there is a concern among New1055Mexicans that a sale of public lands on a broader scale might1056be part of the new BLM agenda.1057    Can you speak to that, and maybe allay some of those1058concerns?1059    Mr. Pearce. Thank you, Senator, and I appreciate the chance1060to talk about this. The Secretary has been very straightforward1061that he does not visualize any large-scale sales of land. FLPMA1062does not allow BLM to go in and the Director of BLM to have1063these large-scale sales. That's something that, frankly, the1064isolated parcels, I would look to members of this Committee to1065identify those. I think that, from my time in office, I know1066that I would have understood better than any Director of the1067BLM the sensitivity of this piece of land or that piece of1068land. And so, that's the reason I say I will look to you all on1069that. There is a monumental amount of work to be done. And1070again, I would say, gladly, I would use the help that you all1071could provide in identifying those parcels.1072    But just to put it into context, when I first got to the1073state legislature, Los Alamos, or the home of the Los Alamos1074Labs, was trying to get five acres. And they've been trying,1075they said, for years. I don't know if that has even occurred1076today, but when it didn't occur then, the community was forced1077to move 20 miles down a mountain and form a community there1078where people could afford to live. And then, in the wintertime,1079we would lose two or three people who work at the labs every1080year off those snow covered passes. And it's that kind of1081restrictive holding that I think we are meant to address, but1082again.1083    Senator Heinrich. That's where the focus should be.1084    Mr. Pearce. I look to you all to provide that focus for the1085agency.1086    Senator Heinrich. The other issue--and I have1087correspondence from a number of Las Cruces City Councilors, the1088Mayor of Mesilla, Dona Ana County Commissioners, and state1089representatives and senators in southern New Mexico, as well as1090soil and water conservation district members--is the issue of1091the future of the Organ Mountains-Desert Peaks National1092Monument. I know there is a lot of water under the bridge on1093that issue between both of us, but what would you say to those1094elected officials in Dona Ana County about your approach with1095respect to the monument?1096    Mr. Pearce. Senator, again, thanks for the opportunity to1097clarify that because that issue was very hotly contested in the1098county for about 15 years, and eventually it was designated by1099executive order. I very rarely look in the rear-view mirror,1100especially looking at this job and the amount of work ahead of1101us. I don't anticipate going back and reviewing that. At the1102end of the day, it's a presidential decision anyway, but I1103don't view myself as going and making a recommendation. There1104is too much ahead of us to get done to focus on things that1105have happened in the past. It has been recognized and1106operating.1107    Senator Heinrich. I appreciate that very much.1108    I also want to say how much I appreciate your interest in1109orphaned wells and abandoned mines. That's a place where I1110think we can really build some bipartisan support for that kind1111of work, and I look forward to continuing that conversation1112with you.1113    I am going to switch now to Mr. Haustveit, and I am going1114to ask the same question that I asked your predecessor during1115his hearing about a year ago, and that is, would you agree that1116in this environment of increased demand, probably the most1117increased demand we have seen since the invention of the air1118conditioner, that we need an energy strategy that is focused on1119rapidly expanding production from all available sources,1120including things like renewables and storage?1121    Mr. Haustveit. Senator, thank you for the question.1122    As we have seen in the last month or so, it's critical that1123we prioritize reliability. We have seen with the winter storm1124that when people need lights, they need heat, we need to make1125sure we have got the energy forms available to deploy on the1126grid. So, I believe in the best of the above. Not all energy is1127created equally, and not all energy types should be deployed1128across every different region of the U.S. and of the world. So,1129best of the above, prioritize reliability and affordability to1130make sure that we take care of American citizens.1131    Senator Heinrich. Yes, and I would agree with you that1132reliability is non-negotiable. I will also point out that we1133have been able to develop a grid in New Mexico that is1134incredibly clean and more reliable than most in the country and1135yet also produces that energy at a price per kilowatt-hour that1136is a lot lower than many places around the country. And I hope1137that we can continue to see that kind of progress.1138    Mr. Haustveit. I look forward to working together. Thank1139you.1140    The Chairman. Senator Barrasso.1141    Senator Barrasso. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.1142    And Congressman, great to see you again. I sure enjoyed1143working with you when you chaired the Congressional Western1144Caucus. Congratulations to all three of you. I would like to1145start with you though, because we worked together and we spoke1146yesterday in my office specifically about the BLM and the1147critical role it plays in the lifeblood of the economy of the1148State of Wyoming. When we had the nomination hearing in this1149room for Secretary Burgum, I asked him a series of questions1150about the BLM and things and decisions related to Wyoming, and1151I am going to ask you similar questions today about my home1152state.1153    Specifically, we talked yesterday about the Rock Springs1154Resource Management Plan (RMP). We spoke in detail about it,1155and it was something that the last administration came out1156with, rejected any input from the State of Wyoming, accepted1157comments from around the world, including, apparently, some1158from bots from China and something that, clearly, the last1159administration was promoting, that locked up millions of acres1160of land that local communities in the entire state rely upon.1161The governor, the state legislature, the county commissioners,1162and the local communities all strongly opposed the plan. Will1163you commit to working with my office and to the State of1164Wyoming to amend what I believe was a disastrous plan?1165    Mr. Pearce. Absolutely, Senator. I think that one of the1166more important elements of any plan is local input. Custom and1167culture is known by the people who live in an area, and very1168seldom known by the people in Washington, and that is a strong1169commitment I make.1170    Senator Barrasso. Since you are talking about the people1171that live locally, I think we are very fortunate in Wyoming to1172have field offices for the Bureau of Land Management throughout1173our state. This allows the federal agency to better serve our1174rural communities, and many of these offices are located near1175the natural resources all across the state where they have1176oversight. The field offices are located in our more rural1177areas, directly near our agriculture and our energy interests1178and industries--Buffalo, Cody, Newcastle, Pinedale. I am1179hearing from local leaders who would like to make sure that1180there is certainty for the next few years, in terms of whether1181the field offices will stay in these communities. Would you be1182willing to commit to working with my office to ensure longevity1183for our Wyoming field offices?1184    Mr. Pearce. Absolutely, Senator. And again, my county is1185now the highest oil producing county in the nation, and we1186recognize the importance of having a close-by office to where1187you can take questions to them and get answers. And so, I1188absolutely commit to work with you on that.1189    Senator Barrasso. Great.1190     Mr. LaCerte, earlier this month, you appeared at the House1191Energy and Commerce Committee hearing. In your testimony, you1192stated that a big part of permitting delay results from1193permitting decisions that take too long and the leveraging of1194judicial review to create uncertainty around project1195development. I mean, fear, uncertainty, and doubt are the1196things that stop things. Delay is no longer the currency it1197once was, and we frankly can't afford these types of delays. In1198your view, what are the biggest obstacles to a more stable and1199timely permitting process?1200    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you for the question. I think the1201Supreme Court went a long way in that with the unanimous1202decision in Seven County last year. I think the unanimous1203nature of their decision speaks to the bipartisan nature that1204NEPA has been running amok and had been used to block projects1205rather than to review projects. I think that's step one. I1206think step two is, we need to identify that the time is now to1207take action. I think that we have been sitting on a lot of1208projects for too long, whether that be in permitting, whether1209that be in interconnection, whether that be in siting. I think1210that we need to do a better job collaborating with our states1211to permit, site, and build more generation and do a better job1212of building and progressing interstate pipelines and doing all1213of the above. I think that we need to do everything better. So,1214narrowing it down to one issue, one fact pattern, I think,1215would be foolish.1216    Senator Barrasso. Okay. Are there steps you have already1217taken since you have been on the FERC?1218    Mr. LaCerte. Yes. So, we have right-sized our own NEPA1219process, which is ongoing and continuous. This work is not a1220magic bullet. We are going to continue to get more efficient,1221more effective. We are going to continue to move projects1222faster out of our queue. I know that a lot of things have1223languished over time. So, taking a look at what is on our1224docket, taking a look at what is within our jurisdiction, what1225is not. I think all these things are going to enable us to more1226narrowly focus, use staff more wisely, and get projects built.1227    Senator Barrasso. Good.1228    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1229    The Chairman. Senator Wyden.1230    Senator Wyden. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1231    Congressman, we don't know each other and didn't have a1232chance to visit, so I tend to look at documents, public1233documents, and what I have seen with respect to your views on1234selling off public lands doesn't really square with what I1235heard you say to my colleague here. So, I want to ask you about1236some of these comments. Not long ago, you said with respect to1237public land located in western states--and I am a westerner--1238you said, and I quote, ``most of it we do not even need.'' Now,1239my question to you then is--is there too much public land in1240the West now, in your view? Because that is a direct quote, a1241quote that you made in connection with some leadership matters1242previously.1243    So, tell me how we square those two views because that is a1244very blunt statement with respect to public land in my state1245and in the west--``most of it we do not even need.'' So, is1246that something you said some time ago and you no longer1247believe, or perhaps you could just make----1248    Mr. Pearce. Thank you, Senator and I appreciate the1249question.1250    Senator Wyden. Pardon me, one second.1251    Mr. Chairman, I would just ask that we put into the record1252at this point in the questions some of these specifics that I1253am asking about.1254    The Chairman. Without objection.1255    [2012 letter co-written by then-Congressman Pearce1256follows:]1257[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T2945.01012581259[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T2945.01112601261[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T2945.01212621263    Mr. Pearce. So, again, Senator, thanks for the question and1264I look forward to visiting with you in your office and getting1265to know you and your state more personally. But the statement1266made there was when I represented, as a legislative person, a1267district that was, I think, at odds with federal agencies many1268times because the management of those lands is sometimes not as1269well done as it should be, and local people pay the price. It1270cost them jobs. It cost them their careers. It cost them their1271land. And so, I spoke of those frustrations, but I don't, as I1272expressed to Senator Heinrich, I don't visualize selling large1273swaths of land.1274    Senator Wyden. Let's be clear on this. You no longer agree1275with the statement you made years ago that I quoted you on1276because people can change their mind. I get that. But do you1277continue to hold that view, or have you changed your mind about1278something that--we are westerners, and we care about these1279kinds of things, so, what's your----1280    Mr. Pearce. Again, Senator, I'm not so sure that I have1281changed. I'm not sure that I was not speaking out of sheer1282frustration with an agency on behalf of the people who were1283being overwhelmed. So, I do not believe that we are going to go1284out and wholesale land from the Federal Government. That,1285again, had been stated by the Secretary, and federal law says1286that we can't do that from the BLM itself.1287    Senator Wyden. Well, with respect to that, it's pretty hard1288for us to be able, in the West, to trust someone who1289fundamentally doesn't believe that these public lands are1290important. I know you answered my colleague to the effect,1291well, we may not be able to do all the things that some people1292care about, but you are going to be in a position of great1293influence, and I followed that. I was Chairman of this1294Committee for some time before I went to Finance, and I want to1295know--somebody says, ``you know, that really was extreme, I1296don't believe that anymore,'' and what you said to me just now1297is, well, I was kind of frustrated about it back then and we1298will try to work something out now and I will tell you----1299    Mr. Pearce. No, it's----1300    Senator Wyden. [continuing]. I think we have got to do1301better.1302    Mr. Pearce. Thank you, Senator. And I absolutely believe in1303the public lands and the public lands missions. I think that1304one of the most important things, just in my personal life, was1305the hikes that we would go on. Our family would go to Tucson,1306and my granddaughter sitting behind me was about five or six.1307She was the only one in the family who would get up early. I1308would say I am going to go walk at five, if you want to be out1309there, if you want to go with me, and she would. And that was1310really a special time. So, I recognize the importance of the1311federal lands and support the missions completely. I do not1312believe that we have too much federal land sitting in public1313hands. I know that it creates great stress in the West to have1314these lands managed from Washington. That, I do know.1315    Senator Wyden. That last statement indicates your change in1316your views. So, I want to have some more conversation. If you1317are, that's a different story because these are treasures, and1318I look at your career and these documents because we didn't,1319you know, know each other. And you have made something of a1320career out of supporting the selling off of public lands, and I1321want to know if you are changing your position, and my door1322will be open to talk further.1323    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1324    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Wyden.1325    It's important for us to remember that current federal law1326does not allow this. It does not allow the mass sale of federal1327public lands. And so, you know, absent an act of Congress1328authorizing such a thing, the question is moot, and Congressman1329Pearce has noted this point repeatedly, and has acknowledged1330that he will follow the law.1331    Senator Wyden. Mr. Chairman, just very briefly.1332    The Chairman. Yes.1333    Senator Wyden. I had about ten more seconds.1334    The Chairman. Go ahead.1335    Senator Wyden. I think my concern is that when we have1336these smaller parcels and the like, which can be sold, that's1337what concerns me, and I look forward to continuing the1338conversation.1339    The Chairman. Great. Thank you.1340    Senator Risch.1341    Senator Risch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1342    Mr. Haustveit, first of all, thank you for agreeing to meet1343with me. We are going to meet a little bit later today. We have1344the advantage of you having performed, and I hear nothing but1345good things. Looking forward to talking with you.1346    And Mr. LaCerte, same thing with you. You've had a year1347over there and I hear nothing but good things about your1348service there. So, it's always good to have this when we are1349voting on a confirmation to see, to have a background, where1350people have served in that position.1351    So, to both of you, thank you for your service.1352    Mr. Pearce, thank you for meeting with me. And you know, I1353am a one-issue guy on your appointment, and I want to stress,1354for people watching this today, that we are talking about a job1355that you are appointed to, to manage the BLM, and I stress,1356manage the BLM. The policy regarding the BLM, you understand,1357is the purview of this body and the body you formerly served1358in. Do you agree with me on that?1359    Mr. Pearce. I do, Senator.1360    Senator Risch. And we had a good discussion along the lines1361that Senator Lee just underscored, and that is that there is no1362authority for you, or for that matter, for the President, to1363sell off public lands. You agree with that?1364    Mr. Pearce. I agree with that, Senator.1365    Senator Risch. And as I explained to you, this is a 981366percent issue in Idaho. In all my decades of serving the state,1367I have never received such passionate and unified messages as I1368have on this particular topic. Idahoans do not want their1369public lands sold, period, full stop. Public lands are really1370part of us. They are really sacred to us. So, any hint that1371that could happen really raises the ire of Idaho people. And1372look, it's more than that, it's personal to me. My1373undergraduate degree was in forestry, with studies in range1374management and wildlife management. And I did that because I1375loved the public lands. So, it is very personal to me.1376    And let me tell you something, the experience we have had1377in Idaho, and it's, although not widespread, the examples were1378very concerning to us. For years and years--two-thirds of the1379State of Idaho is owned by the Federal Government and managed1380either by the Forest Service or by BLM--and for years and years1381there were some blocks that were owned by some of the timber1382companies, most notably was Potlatch and Boise Cascade. They1383were such great neighbors that you didn't know whether you were1384on a piece of Forest Service land or whether you were on a1385piece of their land. But, as you know, they went through the1386REIT reorganizations, and as a result, those blocks of land1387changed hands and went into private sector from people outside1388the state. What we wound up with was gates, fences, no1389trespassing signs, and I will tell you, this is incredibly1390upsetting to people who used a piece of land for opening day of1391elk season, for generations they have set up camp, and now they1392couldn't.1393    Now, again, that was not widespread, but it gave us a1394glimpse as to what could happen, and very possibly would1395happen, if these lands were sold off. So we're out. We don't1396want that. We don't want anything to do with that. And I1397appreciate your stating to me, and I hope you will state it1398again, publicly, that you understand that the job you are being1399appointed to regards the management of these public lands,1400which I think you are very qualified to do. But as far as a1401wholesale sell-off of that, you have nothing to do about it, no1402matter what you thought about it, there would be no way you1403could get this done without the concurrence of the U.S.1404Congress, which I can tell you, is extremely unlikely at this1405point.1406    Your thoughts?1407    Mr. Pearce. Thank you, Senator. Again, I appreciate the1408time that we were able to spend in your office and came away1409with a very clear understanding of your position. It's one of1410the points that I made to Senator Heinrich, that when it comes1411to distribution of land, I look to you all to provide the1412ground work. You all will know your state. You will know the1413parcels of land much better than people in Washington. And so1414that's my commitment to you, that we will work with you, and1415follow the law completely.1416    Senator Risch. Well, we appreciate that. And I would say1417this, so there is a clear understanding here--isolated parcels1418that are very small parcels that are sometimes needed for1419hospitals or for schools or what have you, this Committee,1420while I have been on it, has approved I think thousands of1421those sales over the years, but they are very, very small1422pieces. And I have never seen a wholesale sell-off of a large1423tract of land. And I know of no suggestions right now that that1424should happen. So, I appreciate your understanding that you are1425sent there to manage the land, and this other issue, which is a1426huge issue, is not one that we are going to have to be worried1427about at this time. So, with that, thank you.1428    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1429    The Chairman. Thank you.1430    Senator King.1431    Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1432    Congressman Pearce, I am sure it feels weird to be on that1433side of the dais, but so far, you're holding up.1434    Mr. Pearce. It's a little bit strange, but we're holding up1435here. Thank you.1436    Senator King. You are holding up quite well. Thank you.1437    I want to change the subject to energy. The public lands,1438of course, have enormous energy potential in a whole host of1439areas. My concern is that the administration seems to have made1440a decision that fossil fuel extraction on public lands is okay,1441renewables, not so much. In fact, there is now a rule that1442every renewable project, whether it's wind or solar, has to go1443directly to the Secretary for his approval. This doesn't apply1444to fossil plants. The Chairman has made the point in prior1445hearings, we are facing a two-percent a year increase in1446demand, which is unprecedented. Compounded in 10 years, that's1447a 30 percent increase in demand.1448    How are we going to get there by eliminating a significant1449source of energy from consideration? And the other side of this1450question is, how will people feel on your side of the fence in1451two, four, six, eight years, when it's reversed and all fossil1452fuel plants have to go through some kind of special extra1453review that never results in any permits? Do you see what I am1454saying? I mean, I would be fine if we were talking, okay, we1455are going to review all projects on public land, but to say we1456are going to only review renewable plants and not fossil fuels1457plants strikes me as (a) not in the public interest because we1458need that electricity, and (b) it establishes a terrible1459precedent for the federal even-handed regulation, if you will,1460of energy sources.1461    Mr. Pearce. Senator, I appreciate the question. The answer1462comes down to the fact that I will be working for the President1463and for the Secretary. That doesn't mean that I won't visit1464with you, figure out what your issues are and take those and1465represent them.1466    Senator King. Yeah, but you are going to be a policy1467advisor. You are going to be the head of public lands. And we1468are talking about development on public lands. I presume1469somebody is going to ask you your opinion. Do you think it's a1470good idea to basically say we can do one kind of development on1471public lands and not another? And by the way, do you know if1472there is any legal authority for that kind of distinction?1473    Mr. Pearce. Well, I am not yet in the position. I don't1474have access to all the information that's there. It's a1475conversation I am more than willing to have with you and with1476the administration, but I don't know the rationale, don't know1477the law regarding it--be happy to investigate that to its1478fullest.1479    Senator King. Well, one of the problems with this--and you1480know, the prior administration had different policies--is what1481I am calling the whiplash effect, where the law and procedure1482and rules and regulations change dramatically from one1483administration to the other. And the result of that is,1484business doesn't have the confidence to invest because when you1485are talking about a multi-million dollar, perhaps billion-1486dollar investment in an energy facility, you need to know that1487the rules will be the same when you get to the end of that1488process. So, I hope you will take this into consideration. And1489also, I am going to be pursuing the question of what is the1490legal authority that the Secretary has to--unto himself this--1491essentially, a new permitting review for certain kinds of1492energy projects and not for some others.1493    Mr. LaCerte, first I want to thank you because you have1494kept your promise. You have worked on the FERC in the prior1495months in a bipartisan way. The FERC is working, I think, very1496effectively. And I think you have met the representations that1497you made when you were here before.1498    This energy demand that I mentioned is not only on the1499capacity side, but it's on the grid side. We are going to need1500huge investments in the expansion of the capacity of the grid.1501We need to use the grid more efficiently. The grid is like a1502church that is built only for Christmas and Easter. There are a1503lot of empty pews in February and June.1504    [Laughter.]1505    Senator King. And we've got to figure out how to use this1506thing more efficiently rather than dump in billions of dollars,1507which are going to go right to the ratepayers. And what I am1508getting at is, GETs--technologies that will enable us to1509increase the throughput of the grid without new poles, without1510new rights-of-way, perhaps reconductoring, but also dynamic1511line rating. I hope this is a priority for FERC because you1512said a few minutes ago, and I loved it when you said it, ``I1513represent the ratepayers.'' And, as you know, transmission and1514distribution is now 50 percent of most electric bills. I can1515remember when it was 25 or 30 percent. And it's getting higher.1516    So, tell me how you feel about GETs?1517    Mr. LaCerte. Yes, thank you.1518    First, I sit in the----1519    Senator King. That's grid-enhancing technologies. That's1520what1521G-E-T-S stands for. Go ahead.1522    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator.1523    You know, I sit in the church pews of FERC every day, much1524more so than my home pews of my home parish back home, sad to1525say, but I think you are right. I think we need to squeeze1526every megawatt of the existing grid that we can, whether that's1527dynamic line ratings, whether that's grid-enhancing1528technologies of any type, but I can't endorse one over another.1529I think we need to do a much better job of being efficient with1530the grid that we have, in addition to building new1531transmission. So, you are going to see more from me in those1532coming months in that regard.1533    Senator King. I appreciate that. And I am out of time, but1534Mr. Haustveit, what I am particularly concerned about is, and1535you don't have to answer this, we can do it for the record, is1536cyber. CESER is part of your jurisdiction, and I am very1537worried. We talked about the gas pipeline. The work I have done1538in cyber indicates to me the gas pipeline system is quite1539vulnerable. I can tell you, almost to a certainty, that China,1540right now, is trying to penetrate those SCADA systems on our1541gas pipelines. I hope this will be a point of emphasis for you,1542and you will restore whatever cuts have been made to staff at1543CESER because you are on the front lines of our country being1544under attack.1545    Thank you.1546    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1547    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator King.1548    Senator Murkowski.1549    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1550    Gentlemen, thank you for being here this morning, your1551willingness to serve, appreciate each of you.1552    Congressman Pearce, I appreciated our meeting several weeks1553back. It was good to reconnect with you. As I mentioned in my1554office, when you are confirmed to this position, you are going1555to be spending a lot of time focusing on Alaska issues, not1556just because we are special, but because we just have more BLM1557land than anybody else out there. So, all of my friends talk1558about what it means in their state--very, very important--but1559you will find that this is a significant part of your1560portfolio. So, we are going to be counting on you to help us to1561restore this balance that we talk about within our land1562management plans. We had some good news this past week,1563finally, with the lifting of Public Land Orders 5150 and 5180.1564So, those are good, but we have got a lot more work to be1565doing.1566    For Assistant Secretary Haustveit, I appreciate your1567willingness to step into this Under Secretary role at DOE. I am1568sure that you have this aperture, this view of the Department,1569but I want to reinforce it. It really is about working to1570commercialize new resources and technologies so that we are1571always pushing to build out our new supplies. I think we1572recognize that not everything is going to be perfect, not1573everything is commercially viable right now, but that's the1574point, that's why we have the DOE, to help get them there. And1575so, it doesn't help us when the administration decides that1576they are going to say, okay, these resources are good, these1577are bad, they pull their permits, they pull their funding. So,1578again, it's just, it's pushing on the innovation side.1579    And then, to you, Commissioner LaCerte, you were just here1580last fall. You know how strongly I feel about having a full1581complement at FERC. You guys have a tough job, and you need all1582of you there. So, we are in a little bit of a different place1583in Alaska because we don't have the interstate grid, but we1584have a whole range of FERC issues that we are going to be1585asking the FERC to weigh in on, and I am hoping to be able to1586ask a question in that regard.1587    Let me first turn to you, Congressman Pearce. And there has1588been a lot of discussion about what's going on with our public1589lands, but we have been fighting mightily for years now to1590deliver on promises made to our Alaska Native veterans. At the1591time of land selections, those who were serving in Vietnam were1592not able to get their selections. This is going to require not1593only the opportunity for expanded land availability, but also1594timely processing along the way, and timely processing requires1595people. There is so much in the BLM space that just requires1596you to be able to move permits and do reviews, and when you1597don't have the men and women that are doing that, it makes it1598really, really hard to do the job. So, I just, I am going to1599ask you to commit to prioritizing adequate staffing within the1600BLM offices. I am looking particularly at the Alaska state1601offices. You know, we have got a big mandate under the1602President's day-one Alaska order. But you can't do that as head1603of BLM unless you have the folks. So, just asking for your1604commitment on that.1605    Mr. Pearce. Senator, I will be happy to commit to work with1606you. I will be happy to come and visit personally those field1607offices and to look specifically at the issue of Native1608American veterans. Like I said in my statement, in 2016 I flew1609my single-engine small airplane around the world committing it1610to those who didn't make it back from Vietnam. I was fortunate1611enough to come back, but there is still a hole in my heart for1612those who didn't make it. And I will pay special attention to1613that issue. I look forward to working with you.1614    Senator Murkowski. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I1615invite all of you, each of you, to join us in Alaska. You1616always learn a lot when you make the trip.1617    Assistant Secretary, I want to ask you, because there are a1618couple of offices within the Department of Energy that we pay1619particular attention to. I have always felt that the Office of1620Indian Energy can do more in terms of financing tools,1621leveraging to support rural and Alaska Native communities.1622Equally important is the Arctic Energy Office. That has been1623elevated from the Office of Science to now sitting under the1624purview of S3, which will be you. So, can you share with me,1625really quickly, your views on the Office of Indian Energy, and1626what do you think of the Arctic Energy Office? Do you think1627it's a valuable part of DOE?1628    Mr. Haustveit. Senator, thank you for the question.1629    Absolutely, both offices are critical. We went through a1630realignment in November and specifically emphasized those1631offices. So, I am proud to have the opportunity to work with1632those individuals, if confirmed, to partner with Alaskans, to1633partner with our Native Americans across the country. There is1634tremendous opportunity in your state and across the Lower 48 as1635well.1636    Senator Murkowski. Good, I look forward to working with you1637on that.1638    And then, Mr. Chairman, I do have one quick follow-up for1639Commissioner LaCerte, and this relates the Alaska Natural Gas1640Pipeline proposal. FERC has already done the work there, but1641there is a great deal of conversation about the potential for a1642spur line to the second largest community in the state--that1643would be Fairbanks--and how FERC can ensure that there is the1644potential for that. I recognize that I am out of time, and so,1645I would like to have that conversation with you later, perhaps1646offline.1647    Mr. LaCerte. I would love that.1648    Senator Murkowski. Thank you.1649    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1650    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Murkowski.1651    Senator Cortez Masto.1652    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1653    To the nominees, congratulations, welcome. Welcome to all1654your family members here.1655    Mr. Haustveit, thank you for meeting with me in my office.1656I appreciate the conversation.1657    Congressman Pearce, I am probably going to talk mostly to1658you, and this is why. In Nevada, over 80 percent of the land is1659managed by the Federal Government, and 63 percent is the BLM.1660The economic vibrancy of our state relies on a good1661relationship with the Federal Government, and really clear,1662immediate answers on management, decisions, working with our1663state. One of the areas I want to talk to you about is, in1664Nevada, years ago, we passed the Southern Nevada Public Lands1665Management Act--an act and piece of legislation that Secretary1666Burgum has praised as well. This is a model for land disposal,1667like states in the West, where there is a lot of federal land.1668And what it does is, it prioritizes disposal through a process1669that targets parcels based on local need and utilizes land sale1670revenue for conservation, for infrastructure, for recreation,1671for education in the state in which the land sales took place.1672I have introduced legislation to expand that disposal boundary1673to the benefit of my state for economic development, for1674conservation, for housing, for a number of things.1675    My question to you is, will you support community-driven1676legislation like the Southern Nevada Lands bill that1677facilitates very specific disposal of land identified by local1678officials for housing and economic development?1679    Mr. Pearce. Senator, thanks for the question, but also1680thanks for the time that you spent in your office. I thought it1681was very instructive, and it helped me understand a state1682that's even more federally owned than ours. But yes, I have1683read the comments coming from you and from the previous Senator1684about the economic boom that is occurring on land that had very1685little value in the hands of the Federal Government. And I am1686not familiar with the expansion that you were talking about,1687but generally, I would say that I will fall very closely on the1688issue to where you stand. I just haven't looked at it, I am not1689familiar. I would be happy to work with you.1690    Senator Cortez Masto. Based on your experience, though, in1691New Mexico, in dealing with land from your private--it is1692important that locals are part of this conversation and that1693the Federal Government pays attention to local needs and1694stakeholders, correct?1695    Mr. Pearce. It is correct and, in Las Cruces, we are1696building houses on some of the most fertile Rio Grande Valley1697land, taking it out of farming use when less than a half mile1698away, there is just rangeland that is currently unused by the1699Federal Government. And again, we never got that transition1700done. We attempted it, but that was just, I think, 40 acres,1701and we could never get it done. So, I have said multiple times1702that I will work with every member of the Committee and their1703state to figure out what makes sense in their state. I don't1704visualize the Federal Government having the best insight on1705that.1706    Senator Cortez Masto. Yes, thank you.1707    One of the things I didn't get a chance to talk to you1708about when we were meeting, and the question is pretty simple.1709We have seen this issue in the State of Nevada, but if a1710rancher is grazing cattle illegally on federal land, how would1711you handle that?1712    Mr. Pearce. If they are grazing illegally? Oh, I think that1713the laws will be upheld, and we should dig into that, and1714again, there are pieces of the agency which deal with that, but1715I absolutely believe that permission has to be given when a1716landholder, be it personal or federal, the permission has to be1717sacred.1718    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.1719    And then, let me just touch on something Senator King1720talked about, and think we talked about this as well. In1721Nevada, we currently produce 41 percent of power through1722renewable resources, most of that solar. The solar industry in1723my state is roughly about 30,000 jobs, which is more per-capita1724than any other industry. It's about $13.3 billion in1725investment. The problem we have right now is that Secretary1726Burgum issued a memo on July 15, 2025 that requires every1727single permitting decision point from wind or solar projects to1728be elevated and decided by him. That has essentially frozen all1729of our projects and stopped solar in the State of Nevada.1730    Wouldn't you agree that the administration should be1731evaluating potential public land uses objectively for its1732highest yield of resources, rather than making a determination1733on energy preferences?1734    Mr. Pearce. Senator, that's a very similar issue to what1735Senator King brought up, and I am unfamiliar with the order and1736frankly, have had very little discussion with the Secretary up1737to this point on any issue, and even less with the President,1738but I suspect that it's a conversation that we will have. I1739will seek understanding and be working with you to get your1740questions specifically on that.1741    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.1742    And I know I am running out of time, but let me just do one1743final thing here--resource management plan, statewide. I have1744been asking the Department for this, for this very reason,1745because the Federal Government owns so much land, there has to1746be a partnership and a resource management plan taking into1747consideration our state, our local stakeholders, our tribes,1748and working together. I would hope that when you get in this1749position, you are willing to work with us on updating our1750resource management plan statewide for the State of Nevada.1751That is to the best interest of both people in the State of1752Nevada, but also the Federal Government.1753    Mr. Pearce. I think it was Senator Heinrich that mentioned1754that we had tremendous outreach into every community in the 2nd1755District of New Mexico, and I would visualize the same effort1756going into the states. So, you would find me a willing partner1757on looking at that and working with the local communities1758because that's the voice that we have got to protect. It's1759their economy, it's their life, it's their homes, it's their1760culture, it's their customs, and those are things that I am1761deeply sensitive to, whether it be Native American land or just1762your average mountain community or whatever. Yes, I would1763commit strongly to that.1764    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.1765    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1766    The Chairman. Thank you.1767    Senator Daines.1768    Senator Daines. Chairman Lee, thank you.1769    First of all, I want to give a heartfelt thanks to each of1770you for your willingness to serve in these very important1771roles, and I truly look forward to working with each of you,1772once you are confirmed.1773    Assistant Secretary Haustveit, it's great to have a Butte1774grad here. As we say back home in Montana, it's not Butte,1775Montana, it's Butte, America. But you are a graduate of Montana1776Tech. It's a great institution, and I am really pleased to have1777a little of that DNA here in Washington.1778    Congressman Pearce, we served together in the House of1779Representatives when I first came in as a freshman in 2013. And1780we served on behalf of two great western states--New Mexico and1781Montana. During those years that you served in the House, you1782sponsored a number of natural resources bills, including ones1783that sought to serve the interests of tribes, of ranchers, of1784recreationists. In fact, one of those bills was the Making1785Public Lands Public Act, which directed a portion of the Land1786and Water Conservation Fund for increasing public access for1787hunting, fishing, and recreational shooting. In fact, in1788Montana, where we are famous for a lot of things, but the1789movie, ``A River Runs Through It,'' where Brad Pitt suddenly1790discovered fly fishing and ruined it for the rest of us.1791    [Laughter.]1792    Senator Daines. Seventy-five percent of our fishing1793access--and I have had a fly rod in my hand since I was 111794years old from my Grandpa Daines, as a kid growing up in1795Montana--seventy-five percent of our fishing access sites were1796funded by LWCF. We have access to these amazing rivers and1797streams because of the Land and Water Conservation Fund, and it1798has been successfully used to unlock access to public lands1799that prior were inaccessible due to checkerboard land1800ownership. Under President Trump, in fact, we permanently1801authorized and funded LWCF in that very bipartisan Great1802American Outdoors Act, that many said was the greatest1803conservation win in 50 years.1804    My question, Congressman Pearce, if confirmed, will you1805continue to support expanding hunting, fishing, and recreation1806access on BLM lands through the LWCF program?1807    Mr. Pearce. Absolutely, Senator.1808    Senator Daines. Congressman Pearce, we also had a great1809conversation about the need for forest management when you1810stopped by my office and the need for reforms as it relates to1811forest management. BLM manages 1.3 million acres of forest land1812in Montana and the Dakotas. Yet, simple projects get bogged1813down in red tape, and sadly, endless litigation. However, we1814are making progress in helping to remedy that. I have a bill1815that will fix that Ninth Circuit Court Cottonwood decision. It1816has passed this Committee now by voice, so, we have really1817strong bipartisan support, and it's included in the Fix our1818Forests Act.1819    Congressman Pearce, do you agree that we need to increase1820the pace and the scale of forest management on BLM lands and1821pass reforms like the Cottonwood fix, the Root and Stem Act, as1822well as the Fix our Forests Act?1823    Mr. Pearce. Absolutely, Senator. And in New Mexico, we had1824a forest in my district. It was about a million acres, and they1825were cleaning up and taking out the fuels for like 500 acres a1826year. With a million acres, you would never get to the end. And1827I visited with members of both sides of the aisle about the1828need to go in and aggressively begin to remove the fuels. If we1829do that, then we are going to increase the water supply in the1830West, which is always a problem. Every tree uses a certain1831amount of water that should be percolating down into the1832aquifers, recharging the streams and rivers and springs. And1833so, those large-scale thinning projects of tens of thousands of1834acres instead of hundreds of acres is something that I1835visualize. But I would also say that it's going to take the1836backing of this Committee to do those large projects because1837it's a very sensitive political issue. I understand that.1838People say we are going to go clear-cut. I never think we are1839going to do that, but we do need to aggressively thin.1840    Senator Daines. We have watched the remarkable outcomes1841from proper thinning in our forests--you know, these trees are1842a bunch of straws in the ground. They are pulling water out.1843And you thin them out and then the trees remaining grow a lot1844faster. Suddenly, you see springs that you never knew existed1845are refurbished. It's quite remarkable what happens to the1846ecosystem when we do proper forest management--wildlife1847habitat, not to mention reducing the risk of catastrophic1848wildfire, and by the way, jobs for loggers in our sawmills as1849well, which is also an endangered species now in Montana. When1850I was a kid growing up, we had 30 active sawmills. We are down1851to just a handful because of the loss of access in many ways to1852our forests.1853    Mr. Pearce. We have experienced the same thing in southern1854New Mexico. And again, a raging fire was on the Lincoln1855National Forest up near Ruidoso. The Mescalero Indians have a1856forest that butts right up against it and that raging fire1857dropped down and became a grass fire because the Mescaleros had1858cleaned theirs. They had to go through the same rules, same1859laws, and they were able to do it. And so, these are the things1860that cause local communities to say there is hope when they see1861members of the Senate on both sides saying let's get after it1862and let's start cleaning up our environment.1863    Senator Daines. Yes. I am out of time here, but it is1864encouraging. This is becoming increasingly a very bipartisan1865issue----1866    Mr. Pearce. It's very bipartisan.1867    Senator Daines [continuing]. To address this because fire1868knows no boundaries, as we know.1869    I have a few more questions, but I will submit those for1870the record.1871    Mr. Chairman, thank you.1872    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Daines.1873    Senator Padilla.1874    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank both you1875and Ranking Member Heinrich for organizing this hearing.1876    Mr. Pearce, I appreciate the time we were able to spend in1877my office just yesterday. I am going to echo some of the1878concerns and sentiments that some of my colleagues have raised1879about public lands. And it is bipartisan. I know Senator Risch,1880especially, was passionate earlier in the hearing today. From a1881California perspective, the Bureau of Land Management manages1882nearly 15 percent of California's landmass. So, it's critical1883for us that BLM and the BLM Director maintain these lands for1884future generations to enjoy and not just knee-jerk sell them to1885the highest bidder.1886    These BLM lands in California include Chuckwalla National1887Monument. For years, I worked with numerous tribal leaders who1888led the effort to protect the natural resources in that area1889and to promote access to what is now Chuckwalla. It was a1890thoughtfully crafted proposal, as you and I discussed in my1891office, that took into account the input from stakeholders,1892conservationists, energy developers, utilities, tribal leaders,1893hunters, recreation groups, and others, and we ended up with1894universal local support from the state and bipartisan support1895here in the Senate and from Congress. As a result, as one of1896the outcomes of that, five tribes have even formed an inter-1897tribal commission to solidify their enduring commitment to1898protecting sacred lands in Chuckwalla.1899    My question is clear and simple, Mr. Pearce: if confirmed,1900are you committed to honoring these monument designations, yes1901or no?1902    Mr. Pearce. Yes.1903    Senator Padilla. Thank you. That's a great answer. Short,1904clear, concise, and on the record. And I appreciate your1905support for maintaining these protections, and please know that1906I also want to work with you to arrange a meeting with you and1907the members of the inter-tribal commission so you can learn1908more about Chuckwalla. I don't expect you to be an expert on1909day one. Is that a meeting that you are willing to commit to,1910should you be confirmed?1911    Mr. Pearce. Say that again, Senator?1912    Senator Padilla. The meeting with the inter-tribal1913commission that has been formed now that the monument1914designation has been finalized.1915    Mr. Pearce. Senator, as a Representative of southern New1916Mexico, we had multiple pueblos. We had Apache Tribes and we1917had Navajos. We worked extremely closely with all of those to1918accomplish objectives they were looking for on their lands. I1919would visualize a very similar--the Native Americans sometimes1920are overlooked from Washington and----1921    Senator Padilla. Not just sometimes, far too often.1922    Mr. Pearce. We became a voice for them and would continue1923to do that.1924    Senator Padilla. Right. And we talked about meaningful,1925substantive consultation, not just the checking of a box that1926has happened so much over the course of history.1927    Mr. Pearce. Absolutely.1928    Senator Padilla. My next question is for Mr. LaCerte. FERC1929has taken action to speed up large-load interconnections to the1930existing grid. While load flexibility and co-location can be1931valuable tools for maximizing the use of our existing grid,1932there are no substitutes for smart transmission investment to1933ensure future reliability. Tell me if you disagree. The way I1934see it, to be smart, you need a plan. So, as electricity demand1935continues to rise, do you believe that FERC should continue to1936support long-term, regional transmission planning?1937    Mr. LaCerte. Absolutely. Far too often in the past, I1938think, we probably could have tightened some screws with some1939of the plannings that have been done, both interregionally and1940at the state level themselves. I think that it's important that1941we squeeze every possible watt out of the existing grid that we1942have. And that means more diligence, more proper planning, and1943taking a harder look at all the decisions before us.1944    Senator Padilla. Thank you for that. I know I have less1945than a minute left here. Let me just say, I will be submitting1946a couple of additional questions for the record to each of you,1947and I want to register that one of those questions and concerns1948will be staffing cuts. You know, serving under an1949administration, whether it's through the budget process or1950through the DOGE process last year, there have been funding1951cuts in a whole lot of places of the Federal Government and1952staffing cuts in a whole lot of places of the Federal1953Government, with increasing demand on the services and guidance1954that these departments and agencies are meant to provide. How1955are we supposed to achieve that going forward with limited1956resources? So, I look forward to an ongoing conversation with1957you.1958    Thank you.1959    The Chairman. Senator Cassidy.1960    Senator Cassidy. Thank you.1961    Mr. Haustveit, Louisiana has a big Meta AI center in1962Northeast Louisiana, but there is one just announced with1963Amazon in Northwest Louisiana. In both cases, both companies1964have committed to building the sufficient power generation so1965as to not raise rates. The President, in his State of the1966Union, said again, we should not be raising rates and said that1967these data centers should. How do you ensure that? Number one,1968how do you make sure that they actually are carrying their1969weight, if you will? Number two, there is going to be a lot of1970transmission line upgrade required for this. And so, the second1971part of this is, how do we get that permitting through so that,1972as they do carry their weight in terms of generation, we have1973the transmission capability to make it happen?1974    Mr. Haustveit. Thank you for the question, Senator.1975    On the first one, we have a President who is an incredible1976dealmaker, so he has already negotiated the deals with the1977largest hyperscalers. The deals that he highlighted in the1978State of the Union last night focused on not only bringing1979their own power to provide what they need for their1980hyperscalers, but more than enough, so that we can have a1981downward price pressure for residential consumers. So, working1982with the developers is key. We need to win the AI race. These1983AI data centers and power generation builds provide incredible1984jobs.1985    Senator Cassidy. No, I accept that, so, if it's behind the1986meter, then you are going to have sufficient generation, but1987sometimes they are going to have to transmit electrons from,1988say, the Panhandle of Oklahoma to Northwest Louisiana. And1989that's going to require transmission lines. Transmission has1990been very difficult to get done. Any thoughts on that?1991    Mr. Haustveit. Yes, Senator, I appreciate the question. It1992depends on where we are at. There are different solutions for1993different regions, but the same dealmaking that the President1994has done for power generation will be done for transmission as1995well. The President is committed to avoiding putting any upward1996pressure on rates to consumers due to data centers. We want to1997support the buildout without----1998    Senator Cassidy. I accept that, but I will go back to the1999practical nature. It has been very difficult to get large2000transmission lines done. I mean, it can take a decade or more,2001I am told.2002    Mr. LaCerte, any thoughts on that?2003    Mr. LaCerte. Yes, absolutely. I think we could probably2004talk for weeks on end about this issue.2005    Senator Cassidy. I have two minutes left.2006    [Laughter.]2007    Mr. LaCerte. First and foremost, I think we have to give2008flexibilities to the entities that have earned the trust and2009respect to have those flexibilities. We need to build2010procedural safeguards in place to make sure the consumers are2011protected. And that's why, within my first two months on the2012job, we committed to an order within PJM which allows for new2013transmission, the first transmission services over the past 202014years, called ``firm and non-firm co-located demand''. So, I2015think it only makes sense that if we have a load that is in2016proximity to the generator, that's going to reduce the amount2017of transmission that is required to serve that load. So, it's a2018partnership with the states.2019    Senator Cassidy. I get that, but if you have load which is2020distant from the user, then we are going to need that2021transmission line, and that has been really hard to do.2022    Mr. LaCerte. It has been really hard to do, but it has been2023thrown out of whack many times because of the early retirement2024of baseload power and the overreliance of renewables. That's2025why we have many areas in the country which transmit load over2026a large square mileage. I think that increases the cost because2027you have to build that high-capacity transmission from one area2028to another. I think it is vitally important for seams, as we2029are going, especially in the West and into California within2030SPP, but co-locating load makes practical sense.2031    Senator Cassidy. I accept that.2032    Mr. LaCerte. And I understand it's on a re-hearing, I can't2033get too much into the order, but that's a vital step in the2034right direction.2035    Senator Cassidy. Mr. Haustveit, on a different topic, the2036Supreme Court seems to have closed the door on EPA tariffs, but2037clearly the President wants to continue to use tariffs to2038protect American businesses and American workers. And if you2039look, countries like China arbitrage or ignore environmental2040laws to lower the cost of manufacturing, as much as by 202041percent. Our manufacturers move there, we lose the jobs, but2042the pollution blows over on our country. So, I proposed the2043Foreign Pollution Fee that would be roughly equal to the2044avoided cost of complying with environmental regulations to be2045tacked on to any good which is polluting coming from a place2046like China. Any thoughts on that?2047    Mr. Haustveit. Senator, first, the President's tariff plan2048has been wildly successful. We have met with countless2049companies who have told us----2050    Senator Cassidy. I accept that. I've got a minute left. I2051have 30 seconds.2052    Mr. Haustveit. They've told us that they are building here2053because of that. So, I think the President is solving the2054solution by reindustrializing in the United States. So, I hope2055that your plan is a moot point and we industrialize in the2056United States, we build what we need----2057    Senator Cassidy. But it seems like those tariffs have been2058part of what has incentivized them to build here, but now the2059tariffs are gone. Again, I am promoting a congressional tool to2060give to the President that would stand up in court but give2061business the kind of certainty as to what the tariffs would be.2062    I am out of time. I will just say, Steve Pearce, good to2063see you, man, and you have got my vote.2064    Thank you.2065    The Chairman. Senator Gallego.2066    Senator Gallego. Thank you, Chairman Lee and Ranking Member2067Heinrich, and thank you to our witnesses for being here.2068    Thank you, Congressman Pearce, for coming by my office2069yesterday. I had a little hiccup with day care, and you were2070very accommodating, considering my daughter was running around2071like crazy, as usual, but, you know, you have heard it from2072some of our western states today, and I will give the stat that2073everyone else has, you know, we have 12.1 million acres of BLM2074land. We are very, very lucky to have such a beautiful state--2075the most beautiful in the country. And within this land, we2076have national monuments that highlight, you know, the beauty2077and the culture of the state, too. Of course, one of the ones2078that we always talk about is the Grand Canyon and the ancestral2079footprints of such. And so, because it has already been asked,2080but I have to do it as a home-stater, because this has been2081somewhat controversial, which, when it comes to the Grand2082Canyon monument, that has been ping-ponging back and forth, I2083would love to make sure that, you know, there is still going to2084be support for that and would like to know if you have any2085plans to roll back protections for the Grand Canyon?2086    Mr. Pearce. Thank you, Senator, for the question. And I did2087enjoy the visit yesterday, and the day care thing rings heavy,2088and is nice.2089    Senator Gallego. Yes.2090    Mr. Pearce. So the monuments are something I do support2091deeply and I understand the Grand Canyon, it's one of the most2092magnificent things, frankly, in the world. So, we will do2093whatever we can to work with you any way that is necessary on2094that.2095    Senator Gallego. Great. Thanks.2096    And this administration has announced an initiative to2097build housing on federal lands, with very little detail, and I2098think, done smartly, especially for rural Arizona, it can be2099done in a way that could be very good to help with the costs,2100but after the announcement, I actually asked the President and2101his administration for details on that because I want to make2102sure what doesn't happen is that the best lands get given away2103to the richest men and women and they end up being, you know,2104estates for them and then we stop, you know, our communities2105from being able to access land that is important for fishing,2106hunting, and camping, because that's usually the land that is2107the closest to the cities, but then it's also land that's most2108likely to be valuable. So, I want to make sure that, you know,2109anything going forward, I want it to be thoughtful. I want to2110make sure that it actually is, you know, accessible to working-2111class people.2112    So, I just want to make sure, once you--should you get in2113there, will you commit to providing the answers for these types2114of questions or inquiries, especially from U.S. Senators?2115    Mr. Pearce. Absolutely, Senator, and I mentioned a couple2116times today that, on those issues of use of public lands in2117your state, I really look forward to working with each2118individual Senator, that each state is going to be different.2119Then, as far as access and working-class people--my dad was2120kind of at the lowest level of the oil field. We had a five-2121acre farm, and with six kids, we literally sold vegetables on2122the highway to make things meet. The only thing we had to do2123for vacation was the drive up to Cloudcroft and go through that2124national forest. That was our vacation----2125    Senator Gallego. That is very true for a lot of people in2126Arizona, too. So, you know, for me, it's important that BLM2127lands, especially the ones closest to the cities, are not sold2128off, you know, potentially as trophy homes to billionaires. So,2129what I am trying to communicate to you is that I want to make2130sure that doesn't happen, and that you will do everything in2131your power to make sure that doesn't happen.2132    Lastly, you know, as a veteran, many of us use our public2133lands as, basically, public therapy, if you want to call it2134that, right? It's a great way to de-stress. It's a great way to2135think about what's going on in our lives. A lot of us will go2136camping together. BLM land is often the front yard for rural2137veteran communities. So, how will you measure BLM's success in2138recreation and community benefit, not just production, such as2139metrics like leases, whether it's mineral leases or grazing2140leases?2141    Mr. Pearce. Again, I experienced the same thing you are2142talking about when I got back from Vietnam--backpacking in2143California, some of the wilderness areas in the Gila, exactly2144what you are talking about. And I think that access is the key,2145and some public lands don't have very good access. My brother2146is in a wheelchair. President Bush put him on the Commission2147for Handicapped Access, especially to our parks. I was co-chair2148of the National Park Subcommittee. We dealt with that issue a2149lot, and so access is extremely important to me, for everyone,2150and especially talking about aging populations--they just, they2151have to be able to get there if they are going to enjoy it.2152    Senator Gallego. Thank you. I yield back.2153    The Chairman. Senator Hoeven.2154    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.2155    Assistant Secretary Haustveit, in 2000, North Dakota2156produced about 100,000 barrels of oil a day, and it was going2157down. We went to work. We cracked the code on the shale play.2158We drove it up to 1.5 million barrels a day. And now, we are2159back down. Now, it's starting to decline down. We are at about21601.1 million barrels of oil a day. So, we need to crack the code2161again, this time with enhanced oil recovery, and if we can do2162it by taking CO2 from our coal-fired electric2163plants, we also double the life of those coal plants and give2164them a new revenue source. We passed 45Q, a tax credit, to help2165do that and use that CO2 for enhanced oil recovery.2166We have pulled about 5.7 billion barrels out of the ground, out2167of the shale now, the Bakken shale. We think we can easily2168double that. We are only getting about 10 percent of the oil.2169    So, there is incredible potential here. If we can do it in2170the Bakken, then they can do it in the other shale plays around2171the country. Tell me now, what can DOE do to make that happen--2172Crack the Code 2.0?2173    Mr. Haustveit. Senator, as we have spent hours talking2174about this, it's something I am passionate about. It's the top2175priority in our oil and gas office, absolutely. Leaving these2176resources behind with only 10 percent of the resource extracted2177is irresponsible. It's not being a good steward of these2178resources we have been blessed with. So, the way that we can2179help, it's multi-pronged. Some of it is through applied2180research at our national labs to make sure we understand what2181we deploy, how we deploy, from the chemistry that we blend2182with, the CO2, or surfactants, or rich gas, to the2183metallurgy that those gases are coming in contact with, and2184through our funding mechanisms. It's extremely important that2185we pilot these technologies at scale, in the field, as soon as2186we possibly can to give them the best chance of success. We2187need to be thoughtful in transitioning these ideas from2188laboratory, to field development, to full scale, like we did in2189the Bakken--commercial development. So, industry takes it and2190scales it, as we know they can.2191    Senator Hoeven. Right, and we know we can do it2192technologically. The key is getting it to commercial viability,2193right? And that's right in DOE's wheelhouse, isn't it? So, this2194is an incredibly big deal. I know Secretary Wright understands2195it, I know Secretary Danly understands it, and I know you2196understand it. So that's why I am very excited about your2197leadership at DOE.2198    Now, somewhat related, but I think in an interesting way,2199we are also looking at using a lot of that oil and gas2200infrastructure to see if we can't do some exciting new things2201with geothermal. And so, talk to me about what you see as the2202potential--also, I mean, again, we are using existing resources2203and we are using them in new and creative ways, better2204environmental stewardship and a lot more energy and we need2205electricity and we need, you know, transportation fuels. We2206need all of it. So, what about geothermal? What can we do2207there?2208    Mr. Haustveit. So, the Williston Basin has one of the2209higher thermal gradients for an oil and gas reservoir. It's not2210as high as our friends out in the West where they've cooked2211off----2212    Senator Hoeven. You mean like places like New Mexico or2213Utah, those kinds of places?2214    Mr. Haustveit. It's a little hotter.2215    Senator Hoeven. It's exciting for them, you know, just if2216anybody were----2217    Mr. Haustveit. But also, what we have going for us in North2218Dakota is, geothermal is all about a ``delta T''--a2219differential in temperature. And as you know, it's not always2220warm in North Dakota. So, the produced fluid doesn't have to be2221as hot to get the same benefit in terms of the differential2222between the produced fluid and the ambient temperature. That's2223where we extract the energy from the fluid and convert it to2224electrons.2225    Senator Hoeven. And what kind of initiatives? What are you2226all looking at to help do that?2227    Mr. Haustveit. Just this morning we announced the largest2228ever funding opportunity for geothermal, with two topic areas.2229One is what I talked about earlier, with CO2, but2230now for geothermal--field pilots. We need people that drill2231real wells to go to the field and demonstrate these projects at2232scale. And the other one is to characterize. North Dakota does2233not have to do a whole lot of characterization work. With tens2234of thousands of wells, you know your subsurface better than2235almost anywhere in the world. Areas in the West, where there2236are very few vertical penetrations because there is no existing2237production, we need to go collect that subsurface information2238so we know where the highest quality resource exists.2239    Senator Hoeven. Yeah, and our Energy and Environmental2240Research Center at the University of North Dakota can be very2241helpful with that. And I would also think, as you mentioned,2242the national labs have a really great role to play here, too.2243So, this is about American innovation and ingenuity that can2244create incredible new energy opportunities. Would you agree?2245    Mr. Haustveit. Absolutely.2246    Senator Hoeven. And you are certainly committed to working2247on those things with the members of this Committee?2248    Mr. Haustveit. Absolutely, Senator, yes.2249    Senator Hoeven. Thank you.2250    Mr. Haustveit. Thank you.2251    Senator Hoeven. Mr. LaCerte, thank you for your good work2252on FERC. I support it. I support you, and I appreciate it. You2253play an important role and you are knowledgeable, thoughtful,2254and good about communicating with us. So, I want to thank you2255for that.2256    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator.2257    Senator Hoeven. Mr. Pearce, I don't know how somebody can2258bring a better background to the job than you, not to mention2259your incredible service to this nation in Vietnam. So, if there2260is anything you want to put on the record, go ahead, but I am2261just thrilled that people like you will step up and serve.2262    Mr. Pearce. Thank you, Senator, appreciate that.2263    Senator Hoeven. Thank you.2264    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.2265    The Chairman. Senator Hoeven, there will be a2266thermodynamics test for members at the end of the hearing, if2267you want to stick around.2268    [Laughter.]2269    The Chairman. Senator Hickenlooper.2270    Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, all2271three of you, for being here.2272    Colorado is deeply invested, emotionally, in our public2273lands. It's not just the $17 billion in our outdoor recreation2274industry, but it's a sense of connection to our history, to our2275identity, what it means to be a Coloradan.2276    I have a couple questions. You know, Mr. Pearce, and we2277talked a little bit on the phone about this--when there was2278talk of selling off large amounts of public lands recently, we2279had over 80,000 Coloradans reach out to say that they were2280against any large-scale selling of public lands. And we know2281that there are existing ways, and towns across the West are2282getting little bits of BLM lands here or there for buildings.2283But there has been a huge outwelling of people concerned about2284your nomination over many of the things that you have said2285around selling public lands. I know Senator Wyden, I watched2286his questions as well, and you said you would follow the2287direction of Congress. But I think, oftentimes, someone in your2288position influences Congress. And I guess the question is, are2289you free of those past comments? And I can read back several2290where you supported the widespread sale of public lands, either2291to pay down the deficit or to get money for education or2292whichever reason. Is that something you really can renounce and2293feel that if you were being asked by Congress to provide input,2294what would you say?2295    Mr. Pearce. I appreciate, number one, the conversation, the2296time that you took a couple of days ago. That was very2297instructive, and I appreciate that. As far as the large-scale2298sale of land, I think the Secretary has been very clear. FLPMA2299prohibits any large-scale sale by the Director. And so, it2300would be at the Secretary level, and he said, and I would2301intend to follow his lead on that, that there won't be any2302large-scale sale of lands.2303    Senator Hickenlooper. But if you were asked by Congress2304your opinion, do you still feel that would be your own personal2305opinion that it would be an efficient and useful process to be2306able to sell-off more of that land? If Congress was asking,2307they might change such a statute.2308    Mr. Pearce. Well, that, Senator, is kind of a multi-2309dimensional question. Sometimes the eastern states don't2310understand the role of PILT, and they begin to suggest that2311PILT should be taken away, that it's welfare to the West, and2312those conversations then take a whole different tack on the2313issue.2314    Senator Hickenlooper. Well, but if you were asked to sell--2315say, to pay PILT--to sell public lands, again, I don't think2316there would be any question. The people that are calling us and2317are so concerned about your nomination, that would not be a2318reason to suddenly begin selling lands?2319    Mr. Pearce. That's not a position that I will take, but2320also, it's a position that's not even allowed by the Director.2321And I have indicated multiple times today that I will work with2322the members of the Committee on the land in their state--that I2323think that's where the best insight is going to come from on2324what to do with public lands.2325    Senator Hickenlooper. You know, one of our people calling2326into my office reminded me of something I had said--I have said2327it multiple times--when someone reveals themself, do you2328believe them? And I think there's a lot of distrust and you are2329going to have to work very hard to dispel that.2330    I also wanted to ask a question about methane. You know,2331the BLM's methane waste prevention rule back in 2017 allowed us2332to conserve gas that otherwise would have been vented or2333flared. It's common sense, but when I was Governor of Colorado,2334we actually sat down with the oil and gas industry and the2335environmental community and we spent a year and a half creating2336concise, efficient regulations that did everything possible to2337make sure that we did not put those harmful pollutants into the2338air and that we were able to get maximum benefit from them. And2339yet, now we see that the administration is trying to roll back2340the current rule that prevents methane waste on public lands.2341And I think we have already proven that the energy sector can2342get behind dealing with this. Why are we trying to, you know,2343pull that back?2344    Mr. Pearce. Senator, I am not familiar with the discussions2345that are going on right now. I have had very limited contact--2346--2347    Senator Hickenlooper. Well, let's say, would you support2348high standards, you know, in terms of methane waste prevention?2349Would you support that kind of, you know, public operation on2350public lands?2351    Mr. Pearce. One of the things that I am just remotely2352familiar with since getting nominated is that there is a very2353large attempt to gather methane in particular fields and use it2354to generate data centers. In other words, using that methane in2355a productive fashion, that's something I would be very2356supportive of.2357    Senator Hickenlooper. Of course, but I am talking about2358rolling back the existing regulations that are in place.2359    Mr. Pearce. Again, I am not familiar with the reasons that2360the administration would be suggesting. I would be happy to2361look at it. I am happy to investigate it, but I don't know that2362I could comment on it right now.2363    Senator Hickenlooper. Okay, thank you, appreciate it. I2364yield back to the Chair.2365    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Senator Hickenlooper.2366    All right, I want to thank the witnesses for being here2367today, for answering our questions.2368    A couple of housekeeping items before the end of the2369hearing. I want to ask consent to enter into the record 182370letters of support for Congressman Pearce, signed by 302371different groups. They range from the Navajo Nation to the New2372Mexico Association of Conservation Districts.2373    Hearing no objection, those will be admitted into the2374record.2375    [Letters of support for Mr. Pearce follow:]2376   [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]23772378    The Chairman. Questions for the record of the hearing are2379due by 6:00 p.m. tomorrow evening, Thursday, February 26th.2380    The record of the hearing will remain open for statements2381until 6:00 p.m. this coming Wednesday, a week from today,2382Wednesday, March 4th.2383    Thank you to Ranking Member Heinrich and his staff and to2384members of the Committee.2385    On behalf of the Committee, I am pleased to congratulate2386each of you on your nominations and look forward to working2387closely with each of you as we approach the moment where your2388nominations can move forward and proceed to the floor.2389    I hope every Senator on the Committee will continue to work2390with me to encourage leadership on both sides of the aisle to2391bring these nominations to the floor as soon as possible.2392    The Committee stands adjourned.2393    [Whereupon, at 11:37 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]23942395                      APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED23962397                              ----------23982399[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]24002401                                 [all]