From Transformative Science to Technological Breakthroughs: DOE’s National Laboratories

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                      FROM TRANSFORMATIVE SCIENCE5                    TO TECHNOLOGICAL BREAKTHROUGHS:6                      DOE'S NATIONAL LABORATORIES78=======================================================================910                                HEARING1112                               BEFORE THE1314                         SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENERGY1516                                 OF THE1718                      COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE,19                             AND TECHNOLOGY2021                                 OF THE2223                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES2425                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2627                             FIRST SESSION2829                               __________3031                           FEBRUARY 12, 20253233                               __________3435                            Serial No. 119-23637                               __________3839 Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology4041 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]4243       Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov4445                                __________4647                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE4858-902PDF                  WASHINGTON : 20254950-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------5152              COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY5354                   HON. BRIAN BABIN, Texas, Chairman5556RANDY WEBER, Texas                   ZOE LOFGREN, California, Ranking57JIM BAIRD, Indiana                       Member58DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida              SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon59JAY OBERNOLTE, California            HALEY STEVENS, Michigan60CHUCK FLEISCHMANN, Tennessee         DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina61DARRELL ISSA, California             ANDREA SALINAS, Oregon62CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York             VALERIE FOUSHEE, North Carolina63SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida              EMILIA SYKES, Ohio64MAX MILLER, Ohio                     MAXWELL FROST, Florida65RICH McCORMICK, Georgia              GABE AMO, Rhode Island66MIKE COLLINS, Georgia                SUHAS SUBRAMANYAM, Virginia67VINCE FONG, California               LUZ RIVAS, California68DAVID ROUZER, North Carolina         SYLVESTER TURNER, Texas69KEITH SELF, Texas                    SARAH McBRIDE, Delaware70PAT HARRIGAN, North Carolina         LAURA GILLEN, New York71SHERI BIGGS, South Carolina          GEORGE WHITESIDES, California,72JEFF HURD, Colorado                       Vice Ranking Member73MIKE HARIDOPOLOS, Florida            LAURA FRIEDMAN, California74MIKE KENNEDY, Utah                   APRIL McCLAIN DELANEY, Maryland75NICK BEGICH, Alaska                  JOSH RILEY, New York76VACANT77                                 ------7879                         Subcommittee on Energy8081                   HON. RANDY WEBER, Texas, Chairman82JIM BAIRD, Indiana                   DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina,83CHUCK FLEISCHMANN, Tennessee             Ranking Member84CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York             ANDREA SALINAS, Oregon85PAT HARRIGAN, North Carolina         SYLVESTER TURNER, Texas86SHERI BIGGS, South Carolina          LAURA FRIEDMAN, California87JEFF HURD, Colorado                  JOSH RILEY, New York88NICK BEGICH, Alaska                  VALERIE FOUSHEE, North Carolina8990                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S9192                           February 12, 20259394                                                                   Page9596Hearing Charter..................................................     29798                           Opening Statements99100Statement by Representative Randy Weber, Chairman, Subcommittee101  on Energy, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S.102  House of Representatives.......................................     8103    Written Statement............................................     9104105Statement by Representative Deborah Ross, Ranking Member,106  Subcommittee on Energy, Committee on Science, Space, and107  Technology, U.S. House of Representatives......................    10108    Written Statement............................................    11109110Written statement by Representative Brian Babin, Chairman,111  Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of112  Representatives................................................    12113114Statement by Representative Zoe Lofgren, Ranking Member,115  Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of116  Representatives................................................    13117    Written Statement............................................    14118119                               Witnesses:120121Dr. John Wagner, Director, Idaho National Laboratory122    Oral Statement...............................................    15123    Written Statement............................................    18124125Dr. Thom Mason, Director, Los Alamos National Laboratory126    Oral Statement...............................................    28127    Written Statement............................................    30128129Dr. Paul Kearns, Director, Argonne National Laboratory130    Oral Statement...............................................    37131    Written Statement............................................    39132133Dr. Kimberly Budil, Director, Lawrence Livermore National134  Laboratory135    Oral Statement...............................................    51136    Written Statement............................................    53137138Discussion.......................................................    63139140             Appendix I: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions141142Dr. Paul Kearns, Director, Argonne National Laboratory...........    88143144            Appendix II: Additional Material for the Record145146Letter submitted by Representative Randy Weber, Chairman,147  Subcommittee on Energy, Committee on Science, Space, and148  Technology, U.S. House of Representatives149    Partnership for AI Infrastructure............................    92150151                      FROM TRANSFORMATIVE SCIENCE152                    TO TECHNOLOGICAL BREAKTHROUGHS:153                      DOE'S NATIONAL LABORATORIES154155                              ----------156157                      WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2025158159                  House of Representatives,160                            Subcommittee on Energy,161               Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,162                                                   Washington, D.C.163164    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m., in165room 2318, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Randy Weber166[Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.167[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]168169    Chairman Weber. The Subcommittee on Energy will come to170order. Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare171recesses of the Subcommittee at any time.172    Welcome to today's hearing entitled ``From Transformative173Science to Technological Breakthroughs: DOE's National174Laboratories.'' I recognize myself for 5 minutes for an opening175statement.176    So good morning, y'all. Today, the Energy Subcommittee will177be examining the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE)'s National178Laboratories and their role in advancing scientific179discoveries, as well as developing innovative technologies. Our180discussion will explore several topics, including research,181security, DOE's world-leading user facilities, as well as182emerging technologies.183    Since its early formation in World War II, the National184Laboratories have consistently been at the forefront of185scientific achievement. As the largest Federal recipient of186basic research funding in the physical sciences, the National187Labs and their 28 user facilities have taken on the most188fundamental challenges in the fields of computer science, high-189energy physics, fusion energy, as well as materials science.190    Despite these challenges, the labs have made significant191scientific breakthroughs, which include sequencing the first192human genome, mapping the universe, achieving fusion ignition,193and discovering 22 of the elements on the periodic table. These194achievements have been instrumental to U.S. technological195leadership, creating new industries, as well as products.196    In tandem, through public-private partnerships, the197National Labs play a major role in transforming our energy198sector. For instance, the National Energy Technology Lab, known199as NETL, worked with industry to develop hydraulic fracturing200technology. Before its widespread use in the late 2000's, the201United States was actually in a dire energy state, relying on202foreign powers to supply natural gas.203    As a result, the United States built LNG (liquefied natural204gas) terminals, including one in Freeport, Texas--my district--205to import trillions of cubic feet of natural gas. Due to NETL's206collaborative work with industry, however, the United States207repurposed these same terminals to export LNG to our allies,208while reducing the cost of energy at home. This showcases the209importance of public-private partnerships and their ability to210ensure our national security and our energy independence.211    Likewise, the National Laboratories are involved in the212development of next-generation energy technologies, for213example, such as advanced nuclear energy. For over the last 20214years, researchers at Oak Ridge (ORNL) and Idaho National Labs215(INL) have made significant improvements to TRISO fuel, which216is a fabricated fuel using Gen IV reactors. Partly due to the217lab's work, TRISO fuel has been adopted by some of the leading218advanced reactor companies, including X-energy, a recipient of219the Advanced Reactor Demonstration Program (ARDP). X-energy220plans to use this fabricated fuel for its XE-100 reactor, which221will provide power and heat to Dow's industrial production222facility in Seadrift, Texas, just south of my district.223Moreover, the lab's work in fabricated fuels, along with their224ability to supply HALEU (high-assay low-enriched uranium),225which will bring forth a new nuclear renaissance.226    With our focus on National Laboratories, I would be remiss227if I didn't bring up the CHIPS and Science Act. Back in the228117th Congress, I, as the Energy Subcommittee Ranking Member,229along with the House Science Committee Members, worked across230the aisle to produce the Department of Energy's Science for the231Future Act, which included my bill, the Computing Advancements232for Materials Science, CAMS, Act. This large, comprehensive233House product ultimately became the basic text to the CHIPS, as234well as the Science Act, which reauthorized the Office of235Science's basic research programs, authorized upgrades and236experimental facilities such as the Electron Ion Collider at237Brookhaven National Laboratory, and directed DOE to implement238new research security provisions.239    Despite the wideset support for this bill, Congress has yet240to appropriate to the levels authorized in the CHIPS and241Science Act. This failure is partly due to the Biden242Administration's prioritization of new and untested243demonstration and deployment programs. While the IIJA244(Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act) and the IRA (Inflation245Reduction Act) invested close to 100 billion for over 70 new246programs, the Office of Science and its labs received only 2247billion, which is a paltry 2 percent of funding outside of the248traditional appropriation process. This doesn't include the249Biden Administration's risky loan office, which doled out tens250of billions to its politically connected clean energy friends.251    In 2017, I led a joint Subcommittee hearing titled, quote,252``Risky Business: The DOE Loan Guarantee Program,'' end quote,253where I highlighted in my opening statement that the Ivanpah254solar project would come at the cost of the ratepayers if the--255quote, ``if the project fails and goes into default,'' end256quote. With the recent announcement by PG&E ending its257relationship with Ivanpah, it seems that my prediction was258correct. It has--looks like it's coming true.259    Moreover, I hope that the Trump Administration will work260with Congress to fully fund the basic science programs at261levels consistent with CHIPS and Science and reprioritize the262Department to focus on basic research and its labs. This will263ensure U.S. competitiveness and technological prowess in the26421st century.265    I'd like to thank in advance our witnesses today for their266testimony, and I look forward to our conversation here today.267    [The prepared statement of Chairman Weber follows:]268269    Good Morning, today the Energy Subcommittee will be270examining the U.S. Department of Energy's National Laboratories271and their role in advancing scientific discoveries as well as272developing innovative technologies. Our discussion will explore273several topics including research security, DOE's world leading274user facilities, and emerging technologies.275    Since its early formation in World War II, the National276Laboratories have consistently been at the forefront of277scientific achievement. As the largest federal recipient of278basic research funding in the physical sciences, the National279Labs and their 28 user facilities have taken on the most280fundamental challenges in the fields of computer science, high281energy physics, fusion energy, and material science. Our labs282met those challenges and made significant scientific283breakthroughs, including sequencing the first human genome,284mapping the universe, achieving fusion ignition, and285discovering 22 of the elements on the periodic table. These286achievements were instrumental to U.S. technological leadership287creating new industries and products.288    In tandem, through public private partnerships, the289National Labs play a major role in transforming our energy290sector. For instance, the National Energy Technology291Laboratory, known as NETL, worked with industry to develop292hydraulic fracturing technology. Before its widespread use in293the late 2000s, the United States was in a dire energy state294relying on foreign powers to supply natural gas. As a result,295the US built LNG terminals, including one in Freeport Texas, to296import trillions of cubic feet of natural gas. Due to NETL's297collaborative work with industry, the United States repurposed298those same terminals to export LNG to our allies while reducing299the cost of energy at home. This showcases the importance of300public private partnerships and their ability to ensure our301national security and energy security.302    Likewise, the National Laboratories are involved in the303development of next-generation energy technologies such as304advanced nuclear energy. For over the last twenty years,305researchers at Oak Ridge and Idaho National Labs have made306significant improvements to TRISO fuel, which is a fabricated307fuel used in GEN IV reactors. Partly due to the labs' work,308TRISO fuel has been adopted by some of the leading advanced309reactor companies including X-Energy, a recipient of the310Advanced Reactor Demonstration Program. X-Energy plans to use311this fabricated fuel for its XE-100 reactor, which will provide312power and heat to Dow's industrial production facility in313Seadrift Texas, just south of my district. Moreover, the labs314work in fabricated fuels along with their ability to supply315High-Assey Low-Enriched Uranium, or ``HALEU'' could bring forth316a new nuclear renaissance.317    With our focus on the National Laboratories, I would be318remiss if I didn't bring up the CHIPS and Science Act. Back in319the 117th Congress, I, as the Energy Subcommittee Ranking320Member, along with House Science Committee members worked321across the aisle to produce the Department of Energy Science322for the Future Act, which included my bill, the Computing323Advancements for Materials Science (CAMS) Act. This large324comprehensive House product ultimately became the base text to325the CHIPS and Science Act, which reauthorized the Office of326Science's basic research programs, authorized upgrades and327experimental facilities such as the Electron Ion Collider at328Brookhaven National Laboratory, and directed DOE to implement329new research security provisions.330    Despite the widespread support for this bill, Congress has331yet to appropriate to the levels authorized in the CHIPS and332Science Act. This failure is partly due to the Biden333administration's prioritization of new and untested334demonstration and deployment programs carried out in the IIJA335and IRA.336    This doesn't include the Biden Administration's risky loan337office, which doled out tens of billions to its politically-338connected clean energy friends. In 2017, I led a joint339subcommittee hearing titled ``Risky Business: The DOE Loan340Guarantee Program'' where I highlighted in my opening statement341that the Ivanpah solar project would come at the cost of the342ratepayers if the ``project fails and goes into default.'' With343the recent announcement by PG&E ending its relationship with344Ivanpah, it seems that my prediction was correct.345    Moreover, I hope that the Trump Administration will work346with Congress to reprioritize the Department to focus on basic347research and its labs; this will ensure U.S. competitiveness348and technological prowess in the 21st century.349    I would like to thank our witnesses for their testimony,350and I look forward to our conversation here today.351352    Chairman Weber. I now recognize the Ranking Member, the353Representative North Carolina, for her opening statement.354    Ms. Ross. Well, good morning, and thank you so much to355Chairman Weber for convening this hearing today to discuss the356importance of the national laboratory network to preserving our357Nation's leading edge in science and developing the energy358solutions and workforce of tomorrow. I want to thank our359distinguished witnesses for being here to share your testimony360and insights on this topic.361    As a nation, we have entered a pivotal stage where we have362not one, but several emerging clean energy technologies that363have the potential to reshape and improve our economy. We have364advanced and modular nuclear demonstration reactors being365designed and built right now that, when completed, will give366investors the confidence they need to make them the backbone of367our electrical grid and improve reliability.368    We have fusion, right, Representative Lofgren? The holy369grail of energy, making strides in defining--in being able to370be realized in years rather than decades. We have energy371storage technologies making leaps in performance and safety,372which, when paired with new smart grid technologies, will make373intermittency concerns with renewable energy a thing of the374past. These energy technologies are poised not only to375decarbonize the electrical grid, but to make it more resilient,376reliable, and secure in times of climate disasters.377    In my home State of North Carolina, we are seeing378hurricanes becoming increasingly stronger in the wake of379climate change, and we need our grid infrastructure to improve380accordingly. And clearly, we have also seen this in Texas,381California, and throughout our country.382    We also need to continue to support partnerships that share383advanced computing resources between the national laboratories384and NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) that385will enable more accurate forecasting of weather and climate386events, allowing first responders to prepare ahead of time, and387potentially save lives and property.388    And, as I've come to understand, at the forefront of all of389these technologies and partnerships is the Department of390Energy's national laboratory network. I'm looking forward to391hearing from our expert witnesses on the valuable work the392national laboratories are doing, how they are improving the393security of our communities, and what Congress can do to394support their work.395    That said, I'm also deeply concerned about the impact of396the Administration's blanket freeze on Federal funding provided397by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law in flagrant violation of398several recent court orders. It is undermining the ability of399these labs, in partnership with the private sector, to400strengthen our grid and prevent future severe impacts on our401communities. So I'll be digging into that as well.402    [The prepared statement of Ms. Ross follows:]403404    Good morning and thank you, Chairman Weber, for convening405this hearing today to discuss the importance of the national406laboratory network to preserving our nation's leading edge in407science, and in developing the energy solutions and workforce408of tomorrow. I also want to thank our distinguished witnesses409for being here to share your testimony and insights on this410topic.411    As a nation, we have entered a pivotal stage where we have412not one, but several emerging clean energy technologies that413have the potential to reshape and improve our economy. We have414advanced and modular nuclear demonstration reactors being415designed and built right now that, when completed, will give416investors the confidence needed to make them the backbone of417our electrical grid. We have fusion, the holy grail of energy,418making strides now defined in years, not decades. And we have419energy storage technologies making leaps in performance and420safety, which, when paired with new smart grid technologies,421will make intermittency concerns with renewable energy a thing422of the past.423    These energy technologies are poised to not only424decarbonize the electrical grid, but to make it more resilient,425reliable, and secure in times of climate disasters. In my home426state of North Carolina, we are seeing hurricanes becoming427increasingly stronger in the wake of climate change, and we428need our grid infrastructure to improve accordingly. We also429need to continue to support partnerships that share advanced430computing resources between the national laboratories and the431National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration that would432enable more accurate forecasting of weather and climate events,433allowing first responders to prepare ahead of time, and434potentially save lives.435    And as I have come to understand, at the forefront of all436these technologies and partnerships, is the Department of437Energy's national laboratory network. I am looking forward to438hearing from our expert witnesses on the valuable work the439national laboratories are doing, how they are improving the440security of our communities, and what Congress can do to help.441    That said, I am also deeply concerned about the impacts442that this Administration's blanket freeze on federal funding443provided by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law--in flagrant444violation of several recent court orders--is undermining the445ability of these labs in partnership with the private sector to446strengthen our grid and prevent future severe impacts on our447communities. So, I will be digging into that as well.448    With that, I thank you Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.449450    Ms. Ross. Now, Mr. Chairman, I want to ask unanimous451consent to waive onto the Committee Representative Bill Foster452for the purpose of asking questions of the witnesses during453this hearing.454    Chairman Weber. Without objection, so ordered.455    Ms. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.456    Chairman Weber. Thank you, Ranking Member Ross.457    Without objection, Chairman Babin's opening statement will458be included in the record.459    [The prepared statement of Chairman Babin follows:]460461    Good morning everyone. I want to thank my great friend from462Texas, Chairman Weber, and the Energy Subcommittee for holding463their first hearing this Congress on the importance of theU.S.464Department of Energy's National Laboratories.465    As another friend, former Texas Governor and U.S. Energy466Secretary Rick Perry, once said, DOE's 17 National Labs are the467``crown jewels'' of American science--I couldn't agree more.468    I'm grateful we have four esteemed Lab Directors here469today, and I'm eager to dive into and hear more about the470often-overlooked issue of maintaining the ``crown jewel''471status of our National Labs.472    Many people often focus on topline research spending or473shiny new facilities, and while still important, they forget474that some of these labs date back to World War II. As a result,475essential systems like electrical and water infrastructure are476well beyond their expected lifespan.477    It is crucial for the federal government to balance the478development of new facilities with the maintenance of legacy479infrastructure to ensure American preeminence in the coming480decades. It is equally important to appropriately prioritize481high-risk, high-reward basic research that does not crowd-out482private sector investments, rather than favoring special483interest groups.484    Without appropriately balancing these efforts, there could485be major impacts on the overall quality of science conducted at486the laboratories and the ability to recruit the best and487brightest talent.488    Speaking of recruiting--it's becoming just as big of a489challenge as funding and scientific complexity. This is largely490due to the growing capabilities of our global competitors. Make491no mistake: the United States is challenged by the Chinese492Communist Party (CCP) across multiple emerging sectors,493including space, nuclear fusion, quantum, and artificial494intelligence.495    They are significantly increasing their spending to attract496a growing share of the world's top researchers within their497borders. This is a clear attempt to outmaneuver the U.S. and498lead in technological innovation.499    Let me be clear: the CCP represents a significant threat to500our American way of life, focused on intimidation and501suppression instead of collaboration and freedom. Our nation502has always taken pride in and prioritized an open and503cooperative research environment. I hope to learn more today504about how the National Laboratories are striking the right505balance on research security.506    It is imperative that they ensure that key U.S.507technologies are protected while also engaging with the hard-508working scientific community, who are vital for out-innovating509our competitors.510    We are also witnessing remarkable advancements in several511emerging technologies that are shaping our future. The steps512taken by the SST Committee this Congress will significantly513impact the development of these technologies in large part by514the National Labs, ensuring their successful rollout by the515private sector.516    I know Idaho National Lab, represented by one of our517Directors here this morning, is working closely with a number518of small modular reactor startup companies with the hopes of519revolutionizing how we see the nuclear industry.520    I also understand that Lawrence Livermore is collaborating521with the growing commercial fusion sector, which hopes to522deliver power to the grid in the next decade. These523technological advancements are vital to powering the artificial524intelligence expansion currently happening across the globe.525    Once again, I cannot overstate the importance of the work526our National Laboratories do to safeguard our national security527and strengthen America's economic competitiveness and energy528security.529    I would like to thank our witnesses for their testimony,530and I look forward to the important conversation about to take531place.532    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.533534    Chairman Weber. I now recognize the Ranking Member of the535Full Committee for a statement.536    Ms. Lofgren. Well, thank you, and good morning, Chairman537Weber and Ranking Member Ross, and thank you to the witnesses538who got here through a snowstorm. We appreciate the effort that539you've taken to be here today.540    The Department of Energy, as we know, oversees 17 world-541class national laboratories and an array of programs focused on542ensuring U.S. leadership in clean energy industries of the543future and keeping our Nation on the forefront of scientific544discovery. The Department also has the solemn responsibility of545stewarding and ensuring the reliability of our nuclear weapons546stockpile.547    Often for broad bipartisan hearings like this, where a548major focus is on introducing our Committee's many new Members549to the full range of exciting facilities and projects that the550Department oversees, here is where I'd pivot to a favorite551subject of mine that the Ranking Member just referenced, and552that's fusion energy. We'll certainly get to that. And I'm very553appreciative that we have the Director from Lawrence Livermore554National Lab with the NIF (National Ignition Facility) facility555here today.556    I'm deeply disturbed, I will say, by the actions of the557current Administration and its severe impacts on the entire558research enterprise, including national labs. Funds559appropriated by Congress to accelerate the development and560deployment of a broad range of technologies have been561arbitrarily and indefinitely frozen, and the new Director of562the White House Office of Management and Budget (OMB) has563threatened to make a large portion of these so-called pauses564permanent by violating the Impoundment Control Act of 1974, and565even more alarmingly, the power of the purse vested to Congress566in Article 1 of the U.S. Constitution.567    I'm also concerned about the assault on diversity in568science. I remember last year's Chairman of the Committee in569response to an amendment about broadening the scope, saying570those good old boys in rural Oklahoma never get a chance to571compete, we can't leave behind any bright mind in America. And572it's worth remembering that not everybody has the same level of573wealth and access to get in and compete. This is all about574competition and merit and opportunity.575    Lastly, I want to say that it is really unconscionable that576the critical missions of the Department of Energy could now be577catastrophically undermined by an ill-informed, unelected578billionaire and his deeply inexperienced minions. We know that579the new Secretary of Energy personally granted access to DOE's580IT (information technology) system to personnel associated with581the so-called Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE,582over the objections of DOE's own Offices of General Counsel and583the Chief Information Officer. They objected in part because a58423-year-old member of DOGE had not undergone the standard585background check normally required to gain access to this586highly sensitive data. The risk is further heightened due to587the enormous financial conflicts of interest that Mr. Musk, as588CEO (Chief Executive Officer) of Tesla, has with DOE.589    This is why Ranking Members Deborah Ross, Emilia Sykes, and590I recently sent a letter to the Secretary requesting a full591account of DOGE's activities at the Department and the specific592access that had been provided to proprietary as well as593classified data. This breach is all the more galling given that594Tesla itself received a $465 million loan from the DOE Loan595Program Office in 2010 that played a crucial role in the596company's rise as a global leader in electric vehicles. There597appears to be no end of the hypocrisy that these folks are598willing to engage in.599    All this said, I recognize that the witnesses before us600today are certainly not responsible for the radical actions of601this new Administration, even if they have been forced to602address and mitigate their consequences as best they can. So I603truly look forward to this discussion to better understand604these impacts and to chart a better path forward for our605country's best and brightest minds.606    I look forward to hearing from the panel about recent607advancements in the fusion industry. I do want to celebrate608that this Committee has always operated in a bipartisan manner.609That goes back decades. And I'm cheered by Chairman Weber's610call that the science in CHIPS and Science be fully funded up611to the authorized level. That is an important statement, Mr.612Chairman.613    And with that, I yield back.614    [The prepared statement of Ms. Lofgren follows:]615616    Good morning and thank you, Chairman Weber and Ranking617Member Ross, for holding this important hearing today. And618thank you to this excellent panel of witnesses for being here619this morning. The Department of Energy oversees 17 world-class620national laboratories and an array of programs focused on621ensuring U.S. leadership in the clean energy industries of the622future, and on keeping our nation at the forefront of623scientific discovery. The Department also has the solemn624responsibility of stewarding and ensuring the reliability of625our nuclear weapons stockpile.626    Often for broad, bipartisan hearings like this where a627major focus is on introducing our Committee's many new Members628to the full range of exciting facilities and projects that the629Department oversees, here is where I'd pivot to a favorite630subject of mine, and that's fusion energy. And we'll certainly631get to that. However, these are not normal times.632    I am deeply disturbed by the actions of this Administration633and its severe impacts on our nation's entire research634enterprise, including the national labs. Funds appropriated by635Congress to accelerate the development and deployment of a636broad range of clean energy technologies have been arbitrarily637and indefinitely frozen. And the new Director of the White638House's Office of Management and Budget has threatened to make639a large portion of these ``pauses'' permanent by violating the640Impoundment Control Act of 1974 and, even more alarmingly, the641power of the purse vested to Congress in Article 1 of the U.S.642Constitution.643    The widespread assault on any federally supported644individual or program involved in enhancing the diversity,645equity, inclusion (DEI), and accessibility of our research646enterprise is also frankly staggering. I want to be very clear647about this. The talking point from the President, on down to648justify these draconian actions is that we need revert to an649entirely merit-based system. Well, I couldn't agree more that650that should be our shared goal. But what the Administration is651willfully failing to even try to understand is that while every652American should have an equal opportunity to succeed, not every653American is born into the same level of wealth and access. The654Labs' broadening participation programs were never about655undermining merit. They were about creating pathways for all656Americans. If we continue to leave half or more of our nation's657brainpower behind, we will never compete with China. Further,658in most cases these efforts are required by statute.659    Lastly, I must say that it is unconscionable that the660critical missions of the Department of Energy could now be661catastrophically undermined by an ill-informed, unelected662billionaire and his deeply inexperienced minions. We know that663the new Secretary of Energy personally granted access to DOE's664IT system to personnel associated with the so-called665``Department of Government Efficiency,'' or DOGE, over the666objections of DOE's own offices of General Counsel and the667Chief Information Officer.668    They objected in part because a 23-year-old member of DOGE669had not undergone the standard background check normally670required to gain access to this highly sensitive data. The risk671is further heightened due to the enormous financial conflicts-672of-interest that Elon Musk, as CEO of Tesla, has with DOE. This673is why Ranking Members Deborah Ross, Emilia Sykes, and I674recently sent a letter to the Secretary requesting a full675account of DOGE's activities at the Department and the specific676access that they have been provided to proprietary and677classified data.678    This breach is all the more galling given that Tesla itself679received a $465 million loan from the DOE Loan Program Office680in 2010 that played a crucial role in the company's rise as a681global leader in electric vehicles. There appears to be no end682to the hypocrisy that these folks are willing to engage in.683    All this said, I recognize that the witnesses before us684today are certainly not responsible for the radical actions of685this new Administration, even if they have been forced to686address and mitigate their consequences as best they can. So, I687truly look forward to this discussion to better understand688these impacts, and to chart a better path forward for our689country's best and brightest minds. And yes, I look forward to690hearing from the panel about recent advancements in fusion691energy development.692    With that I yield back.693694    Chairman Weber. Thank you, Ranking Member Lofgren.695    I'll now introduce our witnesses. Our first witness today696is Dr. John Wagner, the Director of Idaho National Laboratory.697Our next witness is Dr. Thom Mason, the Director at Los Alamos698National Laboratory. Our third witness is Dr. Paul Kearns, the699Director at Argonne National Laboratory. And our final and--700some would argue--best witness is Dr. Kimberly Budil, the701Director at Lawrence Liverpool National Laboratory.702    I now recognize Dr. Wagner for 5 minutes.703704                 TESTIMONY OF DR. JOHN WAGNER,705706              DIRECTOR, IDAHO NATIONAL LABORATORY707708    Dr. Wagner. Thank you. Chairman Weber, Subcommittee Ranking709Member Ross, and Ranking Member Lofgren, it's a pleasure to be710here. Thank you for having me in this discussion today. My name711is John Wagner. I'm the Director at the Idaho National712Laboratory, the Nation's center for nuclear energy research and713development (R&D). I also serve as the Chair of the National714Directors--National Laboratory Directors Council.715    I considered it to be a true honor to be a part of a system716tasked with finding solutions to our Nation's greatest energy717and security challenges. On a personal note, my first718professional experiences as a college student was during719internships in the summertime at Oak Ridge National Laboratory720and Los Alamos National Laboratory. These experiences opened my721eyes to amazing possibilities and had a profound impact on my722career and on my life.723    After beginning in the private sector, I worked at Oak724Ridge National Laboratory for nearly 17 years before my725passions for nuclear energy brought me to Idaho in 2016 as the726Chief Scientist of the Materials and Fuels Complex, and later727became Lab Director in 2020. As Energy Secretary Chris Wright728recently wrote, ``DOE's R&D enterprise is the envy of the729world.'' Originating during the Manhattan Project, our national730labs have achieved breakthroughs that have literally changed731the path of human history and ensured American scientific and732technical leadership.733    Mastery of today's new technologies is vital for our future734global leadership. We must, as a nation, understand and be735first in finding answers to questions that will determine how736future generations live. Questions such as, how do we leverage737our abundant energy resources for our power prosperity? How do738we innovate to ensure durable, stable energy dominance through739fission, fusion, and other technologies? How do we harness AI740(artificial intelligence), exascale computing, quantum741computing to provide breakthroughs and solutions to benefit742American people and American industry? How do we ensure743domestic production of strategic and critical minerals and744materials to secure our supply chain? How do we secure our grid745and other critical infrastructure for the reliable delivery of746necessary energy and water? And how do we ensure U.S. national747security at home and abroad? The experts at our national748laboratories are hard at work finding these solutions to these749pressing challenges.750    At the same time, they're constantly looking ahead over the751horizon to be prepared for future challenges. Our labs design752and operate unique facilities and unparalleled scientific753instruments that enable a greater understanding of the origin754of the universe, fundamental properties of materials, behaviors755of biological systems, and development and delivery of756pharmaceuticals, and so much more.757    Within the DOE national laboratory system, there are three758applied energy laboratories. Idaho National Laboratory is one759of them, also the National Energy Technology Laboratory and the760National Renewable Energy Laboratory. These applied energy761laboratories, working together, play a crucial role in driving762energy innovation for the Nation.763    At INL, we have made historic contributions to our Nation's764energy and national security. Notable achievements include765first demonstration of nuclear power, which now provides nearly76610 percent of the electricity around the world and nearly 20767percent of the U.S. electricity, and also in the development of768nuclear propulsion, which has played a key role in establishing769U.S. Naval military dominance.770    Today, INL is helping maintain and extend the lives of771America's nuclear reactor fleet, while working with industry to772demonstrate and deploy the next generation of nuclear power.773Long-time nuclear leaders like Westinghouse, General Electric,774Holtec, Southern Company, and a long list have joined with a775growing number of nuclear startups like TerraPower, X-energy,776Oklo, Kairos, Radiant, Lightbridge, and many others--sorry, I'm777not going to be able to mention all of them--collaborating with778the laboratories on innovative reactor designs, fuel779development, and associated technologies to address and780expanding completion--or expanding variety of energy use cases.781    Our advanced reactor testbeds are nearing completion, and782in the next few years, will enable multiple private sector783reactor demonstrations, derisking these technologies to support784commercial adoption and deployment. We see an example of this785as U.S.-based refinery and chemical production companies are786funding engineering evaluations for power, steam, heat, and787hydrogen production from existing nuclear power plants, as well788as advanced reactors. In support of these emerging789technologies, U.S.-based Bloom Energy, FuelCell Energy, General790Electric, and others are using the capabilities at Idaho791National Laboratory to demonstrate high-temperature792electrolysis to produce hydrogen and oxygen.793    But every DOE lab has exciting stories to tell, stories of794harnessing research and development for the benefit of the795American people and our industries. I believe that our 17796national laboratories are a primary difference-maker, our797Nation's ace in the hole if you will, that will enable us to798win the competition between nations, enhance our standing as a799world leader in energy and technological innovation, and ensure800our economic prosperity.801    In closing, I appreciate very much the opportunity to be a802part of this discussion, and I look forward to your questions.803    [The prepared statement of Dr. Wagner follows:]804   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]805806    Chairman Weber. Thank you, sir.807    Dr. Mason, you're recognized for 5 minutes.808809                  TESTIMONY OF DR. THOM MASON,810811            DIRECTOR, LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY812813    Dr. Mason. Chairman Weber, Ranking Member Ross, and Members814of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify. I'm815Thom Mason, the Director of Los Alamos National Laboratory. For816more than 80 years, our lab, which is one of the 17 DOE817national labs, played a critical role in advancing scientific818discovery, technology development that strengthens U.S.819security, economic competitiveness, and energy leadership.820    Today, I will focus on three key areas: national security821challenges in a rapidly evolving world, the role of artificial822intelligence in defense and scientific advancement, and the823need for infrastructure investment to sustain innovation.824    Over the past 30-plus years, the geopolitical landscape has825shifted from a bipolar cold war structure to a post-cold war826environment where the United States was the sole superpower to827the tripolar dynamic we see today with United States, China,828and Russia compounded by independent and surrogate actors. This829has created new challenges that demands technological830innovation to maintain strategic stability.831    A critical component of national security is energy832security. The United States must invest in nuclear power as a833stable energy source that reduces reliance on foreign supply834chains, and Los Alamos is at the forefront of advancing reactor835technologies in partnership with Idaho and fuel innovations836that can support both national security and economic growth.837    Today, however, in many areas, private sector investment in838R&D is exceeding government investment, and that requires the839labs to strengthen public-private partnerships to ensure that840advancements align with national interests. Probably artificial841intelligence is the best illustration of this dynamic. From a842national security perspective, artificial intelligence is843transforming global power dynamics faster than any other844technology.845    While the United States leads in areas of AI development,846this lead is narrowing as China increases government investment847in AI-driven defense and surveillance systems, which have the848potential to undermine our legacy deterrent. AI is a force849multiplier for national security, and Los Alamos is leveraging850artificial intelligence to improve weapons simulations, to851enhance deterrence, to strengthen cybersecurity against852emerging threats, and optimize defense supply chains to ensure853resilience.854    However, our current AI efforts are not operating at the855necessary scale. A national AI initiative is needed to apply856the most advanced AI tools to national security challenges, to857invest in classified AI infrastructure and high-performance858computing and to maintain U.S. leadership in AI-driven859deterrence strategies. The Nation that first scales AI for860national security will shape global stability for decades.861    Turning now to infrastructure, regrettably, aging research862infrastructure does threaten innovation. At Los Alamos, many of863our facilities essential for national security are outdated and864in urgent need of recapitalization. The Los Alamos Neutron865Science Center, or LANSCE, is vital for nuclear certification,866as well as medical isotope production, and it's more than 50867years old and requires modernization to maintain reliability.868The LANSCE Modernization Project, which was recently approved869for critical decision zero mission need is crucial for870restoring full capability.871    Similarly, our Explosive Research Complex, which supports872national defense and warfighter safety, faces structural873deficiencies that hinder critical research. These facilities874must be updated to sustain scientific and defense innovation.875The data from our experimental facilities is the raw material876for training artificial intelligence, so investing in modern877infrastructure is not just a scientific priority, it's a878national security imperative.879    Rapid technological advancements have also made880technological surprise a growing concern. Unlike past areas881where research could be tightly controlled, AI and emerging882technologies are advancing, often in open-source environments,883making them more difficult to monitor. To counter these risks,884the United States must develop classified AI testbeds at the885national labs to assess emerging technologies, leverage AI-886driven intelligence to track adversarial advancements, and887strengthen our collaboration with allies to maintain a888strategic edge. The best way to prevent technological surprise889is to lead in innovation and deployment. We must get there890first.891    Because private industry leads in AI and quantum computing892and other disruptive technologies, the national labs must893collaborate closely with industry to accelerate advancements894and ensure they align with our public needs. At Los Alamos,895we've already partnered with leaders like OpenAI and NVIDIA and896can leverage the success of DOE's recently successfully897concluded Exascale Computing Project to integrate AI into898national security applications. Expanding these collaborations899will accelerate scientific breakthroughs in national security900applications, it will ensure that U.S. AI models drive901innovation rather than foreign competitors, and it will keep us902at the forefront of technological leadership across a broad903range of scientific and engineering disciplines. Strong904partnerships between national labs and private industry will905drive American leadership in science, technology, and defense.906    To ensure the United States remains the global leader in907science security, we must take decisive action in three areas:908launching a national AI initiative to maintain U.S. leadership909in AI-driven security, investing in modern scientific910infrastructure to sustain innovation, and expand public-private911partnerships to accelerate technology development. This912Committee plays a pivotal role in ensuring the United States913does not fall behind. I urge you to support these investments914in science, technology, and national security to secure our915future.916    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to your questions.917    [The prepared statement of Dr. Mason follows:]918   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]919920    Chairman Weber. Thank you, sir.921    Dr. Kearns, you're now recognized for, I guess, 5 minutes.922923                 TESTIMONY OF DR. PAUL KEARNS,924925             DIRECTOR, ARGONNE NATIONAL LABORATORY926927    Dr. Kearns. Chairman Weber, Ranking Members Ross and928Lofgren, Members of the Subcommittee, thank you, really, for929the opportunity to appear before you today. It's my honor to930discuss the Department of Energy's National Laboratories and931the drive to innovation and science at scale which underpins932the economy and our national security. I am Paul Kearns. I'm a933Director of Argonne National Laboratory, which is stewarded by934the Department of Energy's Office of Science, the largest935funder of physical sciences across the Federal Government.936    From advancing discoveries in materials science, biology,937high-energy physics, and nuclear research, to driving938innovations in fusion energy, isotope production, and939computational science, the Office of Science fuels research940that spans all 17 of the national laboratories, engaging--941engages over 300 universities and higher learning institutions,942and impacts every State in the union, plus Puerto Rico and943Washington, D.C.944    The Office of Science national laboratories featuring--945feature leading-edge scientific facilities that are essential946to the innovation ecosystem. They provide critical scientific947capabilities that propel discovery and American innovation948through partnerships with industry and academia. These949facilities empower multidisciplinary teams to advance bold and950innovative scientific and technological endeavors. They are951also instrumental in attracting and retaining a talented952workforce, vital for Argonne's success, and they offer staff953opportunities to pursue meaningful careers working on matters954of global scale and consequence.955    Last year was a transformational year at Argonne, where we956completed the upgrade of two of the Office of Science957facilities, the Advanced Photon Source (APS), which provides958very high-energy X-rays that researchers use to study complex959materials and systems, NRR, one of the Nation's first exascale960supercomputers capable of performing a billion billion961calculations per second.962    These facilities are complex engineering marvels. The $850963million upgrade to the Advanced Photon Source replaced the964facility's 30-year-old electron storage ring, 1 kilometer in965circumference, with a state-of-the-art machine increasing X-ray966brightness by up to 500 times. Aurora joins Frontier at Oak967Ridge and El Capitan at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory968as the three fastest supercomputers in the world. These969supercomputers dramatically accelerate research. Cosmological970simulations that took years can now be done in months. And971months of drug discovery are now reduced to days.972    Last year's Nobel Prize Award in chemistry was a testament973to the important contributions of the Office of Science974facilities they're making to break through fundamental science.975The light sources at Argonne, Brookhaven, Lawrence Berkeley,976and SLAC National Laboratories identified 1/3 of the 180,000977protein structures in the Protein Data Bank that three Nobel978Laureates trained AI models on to successfully predict the979three-dimensional shape of proteins. Knowing the three-980dimensional shape of proteins is essential to designing new981drugs because it is the protein's shape that defines which and982how other molecules will bind to it. This achievement has been983heralded as perhaps the very first time AI significantly984advanced the frontiers of humanity's scientific knowledge and985will make a significant contribution to the development of a986vast new set of drug candidates for cancer and other diseases.987    To continue Nobel-level scientific contributions, we must988reinvest in laboratory infrastructure and facilities that drive989discovery, innovation, and development of the industries of990tomorrow. The facilities' capabilities and resident--expertise991resident in the national laboratories are vital to expanding992America's leadership in critical and emerging technologies such993as artificial intelligence, quantum information science, and994microelectronics, and to establishing the United States as the995pace setter in the race of nations vying for supremacy in996science and technology (S&T).997    Adversaries like China are making significant investments998in these industries. Our technological edge of today is not999guaranteed. To maintain U.S. leadership and best position1000ourselves in this evolving geopolitical landscape, we must lean1001into our core strength in research and development, leverage1002our unique scientific assets, and bolster our partnerships.1003    One of the most significant roles of the national1004laboratories is their ability to develop strategic partnerships1005with industry and academia and to convene stakeholders to1006address complex challenges and opportunities. I could cite many1007examples, but a few that come to mind for me are Argonne-led1008collaboration with the Greater Houston Partnership, which is1009working with regional companies like Chevron and ExxonMobil,1010bringing in the laboratory's expertise in advanced1011manufacturing and lifecycle analysis to really help the1012opportunities and the challenges such as those associated with1013low carbon systems for base chemicals. We're also working with1014industry leaders that John mentioned earlier, Oklo and1015TerraPower, using Argonne's deep capabilities and advanced1016reactor technologies and the nuclear fuel cycle really to1017accelerate the commercialization of next-generation1018technologies.1019    Our country stands at a pivotal moment. Innovations of1020today will see transformational breakthroughs that will enable1021our future prosperity. Now is not the time to hold back. With1022renewed investments in the infrastructure and expertise of the1023laboratories, the United States can contribute to lead in1024emerging technologies such as AI, quantum computing, and1025advanced manufacturing. By accelerating and scaling our1026fundamental R&D infrastructure and strategic partnerships, the1027United States can secure its position as global science and1028technology leaders of the future.1029    Thank you for your continued support and the opportunity to1030testify today. I do look forward to the questions as well.1031Thank you.1032    [The prepared statement of Dr. Kearns follows:]1033    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]10341035    Chairman Weber. Thank you, sir.1036    Doctor, is it Budil or----1037    Dr. Budil. Budil.1038    Chairman Weber. Budil, Dr. Budil, you're recognized for 51039minutes.10401041                TESTIMONY OF DR. KIMBERLY BUDIL,10421043        DIRECTOR, LAWRENCE LIVERMORE NATIONAL LABORATORY10441045    Dr. Budil. Thank you. Chairman Weber, Ranking Members Ross1046and Lofgren, Members of the Subcommittee, good morning and1047thank you for having me here today. I'm honored to speak to you1048on behalf of Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, a DOE1049National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) lab, and proud1050member of the DOE's network of national labs.1051    More than three decades ago, I arrived at Livermore as a1052physics graduate student, seeking to do cutting-edge laser1053experiments for my research. What followed was a remarkable1054opportunity to become part of an amazing multidisciplinary team1055dedicated to pursuing world-class science and technology to1056advance U.S. national security and global stability. That1057commitment to service to the Nation is what animates our1058exceptional workforce of nearly 9,000 employees and inspires me1059every day.1060    Today, we find ourselves at a critical time in history with1061an evolving global security environment that presents1062unprecedented challenges. Sustaining U.S. leadership in this1063complex world requires a new approach. Speed and innovation1064must be our focus, a sentiment reinforced by our new Secretary1065of Energy. We must become more agile and adaptable, not only1066through S&T innovation, but also through taking bold, well-1067considered technical risks, seizing opportunities, and1068streamlining business practices.1069    This is also a strategic moment for NNSA and its national1070security laboratories. The need to modernize the nuclear1071deterrent is urgent. We face many challenges, particularly in1072aging and inadequate infrastructure, but it's also an1073opportunity to use our powerful S&T tools to go faster, develop1074new materials, pioneer new manufacturing approaches, reimagine1075the design-to-production lifecycle, and deliver new1076capabilities to meet emerging needs.1077    Modernization efforts are underway, and we're building1078strong partnerships across NNSA and with partners in the other1079labs and in industry to introduce innovative manufacturing1080technologies. We propose to create a complex at Lawrence1081Livermore called VIPRE where advanced materials and1082manufacturing methods will be developed, prototyped, scaled up,1083and quickly transferred to industry partners.1084    Two of NNSA's flagship and world-leading capabilities are1085located at Lawrence Livermore. The recently dedicated El1086Capitan supercomputer, which debuted at No. 1 on the top 5001087list, and the National Ignition Facility both exemplify the1088importance of sustained, multiyear congressional support for1089investing in the core competencies and capabilities of the1090National Laboratories. El Capitan is a remarkable machine. It1091provides a 20-fold increase over our last computer and is made1092even more powerful when coupled with AI and machine learning.1093It's ideal for our modeling and simulation efforts, but it also1094has 44,000 GPUs (graphics processing units), making it an ideal1095machine for AI investigations.1096    With strong industry partnerships and continued support,1097we're poised to take full advantage of this rapidly evolving1098field to accelerate both product delivery and scientific1099discovery. Achievement of fusion ignition and energy gain at1100NIF in December 2022 was a historic event 60 years in the1101making. This success was only possible with that sustained1102support over decades. But fusion ignition is not an end point.1103It's the beginning of our pursuit of high yield for nuclear1104deterrence, energy security, and scientific discovery, and1105continued investment will be critical to our success going1106forward.1107    After 15 years of service and more than 4,500 experiments,1108the National Ignition Facility urgently needs refurbishment.1109NIF sustainment, which is now underway, is an essential1110investment, along with the Enhanced Yield Capability project,1111which was recently granted Critical Decision Zero (CD-0) or1112Mission Need by NNSA to increase NIF's laser energy, a critical1113step toward a future high-yield facility. As we learned in the1114pursuit of ignition, a little bit of energy goes a long way in1115these experiments.1116    As a national security laboratory, Livermore contributes to1117a wide range of important missions for other agencies:1118biodefense research to accelerate development of medical1119countermeasures; partnerships with other labs and with industry1120to computationally design new cancer therapeutics; novel laser1121research, laying the foundations for next-generation microchips1122or the next generation of EUV (extreme ultraviolet) lithography1123developed at the labs; and developing novel optics to create a1124new class of space-based platforms. These and other projects1125truly exemplify our motto, ``Science and Technology on a1126Mission.''1127    Thank you again for offering me the opportunity to share1128how Livermore's multidisciplinary workforce is contributing to1129U.S. security, scientific advancement, and global technological1130leadership, and thank you for your continued support for our1131important work. I look forward to today's discussion.1132    [The prepared statement of Dr. Budil follows:]1133    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]11341135    Chairman Weber. I thank the witnesses for their testimony.1136I now recognize myself for 5 minutes of questioning.1137    This will be a question for each of you. Last month,1138President Trump signed an Executive Order (EO) ``Unleashing1139American Energy,'' which pauses funding allocated through the1140IRA and IIJA. On January 27, OMB released a memo to temporarily1141pause new awards, disbursements of Federal funds under all open1142awards, and open notices of funding opportunities. Although two1143district court judges issued temporary restraining orders,1144would any of your labs have been impacted by the EO or memo if1145implemented as it specifically relates to DOE-related work? And1146before you answer, to be clear, I'm not asking about lab-1147related work from other agencies or departments.1148    Dr. Wagner, we'll start with you.1149    Dr. Wagner. Following some time to implement, we have not1150been impacted.1151    Chairman Weber. Short and sweet. Dr. Mason?1152    Dr. Mason. Yes, if you're excluding other agencies, then1153the impacts are rather limited. We've identified $200,000 of1154current funding, and there is some additional funding that was1155in the pipeline award that's not yet been received that could1156potentially be impacted in the future.1157    Chairman Weber. OK. Dr. Kearns?1158    Dr. Kearns. Impacts at Argonne are more severe. About $371159million in research activities have been suspended or put on1160hold. That represents the work of some 140 staff. Not all our1161staffs are fully funded by the activity, so it equates to about116240 FTEs (full-time equivalents).1163    Chairman Weber. Thank you. Dr. Budil?1164    Dr. Budil. So we had one project funded under the1165Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act supporting grid1166resiliency activities, so this is a $7 million project where1167the funds were unallocated on January 28.1168    Chairman Weber. Thank you. And, Dr. Wagner, I'm going to1169come back to you. Under the Nuclear Fuel Security Act, Congress1170mandated that DOE provide developers of advanced nuclear1171reactors no less than 3 metric tons of HALEU by September 30,11722024. Today, it's February the 12th, 2025, and my understanding1173is that DOE has not released a single kilogram of HALEU. Is1174that correct?1175    Dr. Wagner. I would really defer to the Department of1176Energy to answer that question, but I think it's probably1177correct.1178    Chairman Weber. Dr. Mason, do you think that's correct too?1179    Dr. Mason. We have a partnership with Kairos that's looking1180at that HALEU fuel, and I have not yet heard from Kairos1181whether or not they have had an impact on their planned supply.1182    Chairman Weber. Dr. Kearns?1183    Dr. Kearns. I don't have any additional information.1184    Chairman Weber. Dr. Budil, no? OK.1185    Dr. Budil. Nothing additional.1186    Chairman Weber. X-energy, an ARDP recipient, is building1187its XE-100 reactor at Dow's facility in Seadrift, Texas, which1188is roughly, probably, I don't know, 100, 150 miles south of my1189district. So my question for each of you is how important is1190HALEU to the success of the ARDP and Gen IV reactors broadly?1191I'm going to go in reverse. Dr. Budil, I'll start with you.1192    Dr. Budil. I'm probably not the right expert to answer the1193question since we have very limited involvement with nuclear1194fission.1195    Chairman Weber. We'll go back this way. Dr. Kearns?1196    Dr. Kearns. Yes, HALEU is certainly important, really, to1197the development of advanced reactors, so many of the vendors1198that we're working with do have plants to power the reactors1199using HALEU, so critically important.1200    Chairman Weber. Dr. Mason?1201    Dr. Mason. As I mentioned, we have an activity with Kairos,1202which is one of the SMR (small modular reactor) startup1203companies, and the particulars of that involve the fabrication1204of the TRISO HALEU fuel that would be used for their very first1205test reactor that's being built in Oak Ridge. They have built a1206fabrication facility in Albuquerque adjacent to Kirtland Air1207Force Base, where they've been prototyping the fabrication of1208these TRISO pellets. But in order to work with HALEU, which is1209necessary for their reactor design, which involves TRISO1210pellets and molten salt coolant, they needed a facility that1211could handle that sort of material. And actually, at Los1212Alamos, we have the capability to work with special nuclear1213material. It's not our intention to get into the fuel1214fabrication business long term, but it helps solve the chicken-1215and-egg problem, which is critical to this technology.1216    Chairman Weber. But you are--it sounds like you are1217confident they're going to be able to get this done?1218    Dr. Mason. Yes, it's a very promising thing. And once the1219technology has been demonstrated in the test reactor, then I1220think a commercial supply would be stood up to supply the1221ongoing needs, so we're just helping the transition to reality.1222    Chairman Weber. Dr. Wagner, do you concur with that?1223    Dr. Wagner. Yes, I concur with that. I'd just say that the1224high-assay LEU, or HALEU, is essential to almost all of the1225advanced reactor concepts. The supply of that material is1226incredibly important, and the timely supply of that material is1227important. We are working with the Department of Energy. They1228are working to make material available at Idaho National1229Laboratory. We do have some stocks of high-assay LEU that we1230are working with the Department to make available to private1231sector companies, Kairos, Oklo, and many others.1232    Chairman Weber. OK. Thank you for that.1233    I now recognize Ranking Member Ross for her opening--for1234her questions.1235    Ms. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As you all heard in my1236opening statement, grid resilience and reliability is a key1237priority, I think, not just of mine in North Carolina, but this1238entire country. And so I'd like to ask a few more questions,1239Dr. Budil, about the $7 million that you have yet to receive.1240My understanding is that that was in partnership with the1241private sector to support a project focused on reliability and1242resilience. I'd love to hear more about the project and its1243status and whether you've been given any explanation for why1244it's--the funding has ceased.1245    Dr. Budil. Thank you for the question. So the project1246involves utilization of a special laboratory we have at1247Lawrence Livermore called Skyfall. Skyfall is a cyber physical1248testbed so we can use our high-performance computing to run1249models of the grid operating and then put real hardware from1250grid systems in line with those models. And that's a way for us1251to run scenarios where there might be a cyber attack or other1252operational upsets and understand how the equipment will1253respond to that. So this is a really important partnership for1254us, working with utilities and private sector companies, so1255that they can understand, in a real-world environment, how1256their different types of technology they're introducing into1257the grid will operate in that system.1258    So I think this is critically important work. It's a great1259partnership between us and the private sector, and it really1260does give them access to a different capability because of this1261high-performance computing backbone where we can put a very1262realistic scenario together.1263    It's also a place where we train a great deal of workforce1264on questions like cyber resiliency. So we run a cyber program1265where we bring in teams of students and teach them about1266cybersecurity of complex systems like the grid, and they1267actually do an exercise where they work as ethical hackers to1268take the system down. We have a little town that we've built1269that they do team challenges against so this is a way for them1270to gain real-world experience. Most of these students don't1271come from computer science background, so this is really their1272first experience of cybersecurity. So that nexus of real1273hardware, large-scale models of grid, and an understanding of1274the threat space, and then the workforce training pipeline, I1275think, are all critical to ensuring the next generation of1276technologies are deployed securely.1277    Ms. Ross. Well, I think you're going to love a bill that we1278got through with bipartisan support on the House side the last1279time that deals with more funding for cybersecurity in DOE, and1280we're going to reintroduce it.1281    I also understand that Livermore had a partnership with the1282State Department to focus on cooperative threat reduction, and1283this ongoing effort has just been terminated by the new1284Administration. Could you give us any more details on that?1285    Dr. Budil. So this is about a $1 million effort as part of1286a program through Brookhaven National Lab's Nonproliferation1287and National Security Department to do cooperative threat1288reduction work where we have a long legacy doing things like1289capacity building, international support for things like1290nuclear forensics, and understanding, you know, how to manage1291interdicted nuclear materials should they arise. It's about $11292million project, and as far as I know, to date, it's paused. We1293don't know if it will be restarted at a later time.1294    Ms. Ross. Well, hopefully we can work on both of those1295things in a bipartisan way.1296    Several of you have talked about the importance of AI for1297our energy leadership, and I don't know who would be the best1298person to answer this question. We only have a minute left. But1299can you describe how meeting the demand for critical AI1300infrastructure can help support both the scientific enterprise1301and the public interest? Maybe Dr. Mason first since you1302emphasized AI in your response.1303    Dr. Mason. Yes, AI and electricity go together for sure.1304And in fact, the AI demands are kind of baseload demand. It's1305always on. You always need to be running, and so that has1306implications in terms of the type of electrical supply. But our1307ability to support that at the scale that's needed is going to1308be challenged just because the rate at which we ramp up1309electrical production is very different than the rate at which1310AI is ramping up as a discipline, and so I think, as a nation,1311we are going to be challenged to respond quickly enough to1312maintain the very tenuous lead that we have in this field.1313    Ms. Ross. OK. With the last 9 seconds, anybody have1314anything to add to that?1315    Dr. Budil. I'll just say that AI is really transforming1316everything we think about science, how we use data, how we do1317experiments, even how we think about developing new1318technologies because AI with advanced manufacturing allows you1319to make things you couldn't even conceive of before.1320    Ms. Ross. Thank you, and I yield back.1321    Chairman Weber. I thank the gentlelady.1322    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Tennessee, Mr.1323Fleischmann, for 5 minutes.1324    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate your1325having this hearing.1326    To each and every one of the witnesses, thank you. I've1327visited many of your labs. I've worked with you all, I guess,1328over the past 14 years, now 15 years. In short, our National1329Labs are a national treasure. It's probably the most1330enlightening experience I've had as a Member of Congress and1331now as a senior appropriator chairing the Energy and Water1332Subcommittee, which funds the Department of Energy, but could1333not be more pleased and thankful for your opening statements1334and the questions.1335    I wanted to ask each and every one of you your thoughts1336about this. My district is home to the Oak Ridge National Lab--1337actually, Oak Ridge Reservation. We have the NNSA facility1338there, Y-12 building, UPF (uranium processing facility).1339Nuclear cleanup is near and dear to my heart. At many of your1340reservations, I know Idaho has done a great job over the years,1341Los Alamos. I chair seven or eight nuclear-related caucuses, so1342this is what I do in Congress, and each and every one of you1343all have been my partners.1344    This Committee has long recognized the value of public-1345private partnerships--in fact, I think some of you alluded to1346this in your comments--that boost our Nation's competitiveness1347on a global scale. So I'm going to ask each and every one of1348you all, can you explain the benefits and share any examples of1349industry collaboration leading to the commercialization of1350transformative technological achievements? For example, in my1351district, X-energy, which the Chair has already referenced,1352developed their TRISO fuel at ORNL and is now building a1353commercial facility to produce it at scale.1354    Dr. Wagner, two companies working at INL are currently1355conducting a feasibility study to co-locate their fuel1356fabrication facilities and are exploring collaboration on1357reprocessing and recycling technologies, which is also near and1358dear to my heart.1359    Can you all comment on the benefit of industry1360collaboration and the pathways to commercialization? And I1361guess I'll just start with Dr. Wagner and go through. Thank1362you.1363    Dr. Wagner. Thank you, Congressman. And I'd like to start1364by thanking you for your support of the national laboratories1365in general and for nuclear energy in particular. You've been a1366great advocate for the--both of those areas and much, much1367more.1368    So you already are quite familiar with a lot of the public-1369private partnerships and the important aspects of going, but1370I'd like to maybe just quickly talk about a couple. You1371mentioned TRISO fuel. It was the laboratories that came1372together with the Department of Energy more than a decade ago1373to figure out how to fabricate and then evaluate the1374performance of the fabricated TRISO fuel and graphite1375associated with those reactor types, working together with1376private industry and ultimately issuing a topical safety1377analysis report through the Electric Power Research Institute1378to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission that formed a baseline1379then for all of these reactor developers to work from, so1380really kick starting that fuel form in terms of the1381availability for private developers to use that.1382    Today, one of the things that we're really doing closely1383with multiple private companies is providing testbeds for full1384system reactor demonstrations that will derisk, as I said,1385their technologies and enable their path to commercial1386deployment. These things are not possible in facilities other1387than facilities like the Department of Energy national1388laboratories.1389    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you, sir. Dr. Mason?1390    Dr. Mason. So I guess maybe I'll highlight the importance1391of public-private partnerships in artificial intelligence. The1392United States is fortunate that we have private sector actors1393who are making massive investments in developing these1394capabilities. In fact, that's one of our big strategic1395advantages. When you look at what's going on in China, there1396are investments on a similar scale. And of course, in the1397Chinese system, there is no clear distinction between1398government investments and private investments and national1399security investments.1400    That's why it's essential that we are able to leverage the1401tremendous innovation that's happening in our private sector1402for our national security needs. We have been working with many1403of the AI companies, OpenAI, Anthropic. We've been using Lava,1404the Meta open-source AI, but I wanted to highlight two1405partnerships in particular. One is with NVIDIA, the chipmaker.1406Last year, we took delivery of a wonderful new machine called1407Venado that we agreed to purchase 4 years ago. It's a good1408thing we made the deal with NVIDIA 4 years ago because I don't1409think we could get it now. And recently, we reached an1410agreement with OpenAI to field their raw model weights on that1411machine in a classified environment in service of all three of1412the NNSA labs, Livermore, Sandia, and Los Alamos.1413    And this is an example where we can take advantage of the1414huge investment that OpenAI developed--expended in developing1415their advanced models, but do it in a classified environment1416for our national security applications. You know, there may not1417be as big a financial model to incentivize the private sector1418to do that sort of work, and that's why we need to work to1419align our interests and hopefully drive forward the science and1420technology as well.1421    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I think I've1422exceeded my time in all due respect to our witnesses, who I1423know very well and respect, but I certainly want to yield back.1424I know our colleagues all want to speak.1425    Chairman Weber. Well, I wasn't going to point that out, but1426the gentleman yields back.1427    The Chair now recognize the Ranking Member, Ms. Lofgren,1428for 5 minutes.1429    Ms. Lofgren. I would just like to note that the Chair of1430the Appropriations Subcommittee gets extra time.1431    Chairman Weber. The gentlelady yields her time--no, no, no.1432    Ms. Lofgren. First I--you know, I want to thank this really1433wonderful panel of witnesses, and--not only for being here, but1434for the work you do each and every day that advances science1435and helps protect our Nation.1436    Dr. Budil, I--you know, I want to congratulate you again on1437the--NIF's stunning achievements. It's fabulous. DOE Office of1438Science selected Livermore to lead a multi-institutional1439endeavor called the STARFIRE Hub focusing on exploring and1440developing immense potential of inertial fusion energy1441technologies. Can you give us more details of the STARFIRE Hub1442to date and also what private fusion companies you've been1443working with and what unique capabilities they're bringing to1444the effort?1445    Dr. Budil. Yes, thank you for the question, Representative1446Lofgren. The STARFIRE Hub is a really exciting opportunity for1447us to lean into our opportunity to build an inertial fusion1448energy ecosystem, so this allows us to work with the many1449players emerging in the private fusion industry to begin to1450build programs to develop workforce that will support that1451industry and to begin work on some of the important technical1452challenges that stand between these companies and commercial1453deployment of fusion energy.1454    So in the inertial fusion energy realm, we're a smaller1455fraction of the fusion industry in the United States but still1456growing day by day. We have CRADAs, cooperative research and1457development agreements, with most of the companies in this1458arena, so that includes companies like Xcimer, Focused Energy,1459Pacific Fusion, and several new ones coming on the scene as1460time goes by. And in each of those cases, these companies are1461critically dependent on our capabilities and our workforce.1462    In particular, for inertial confinement fusion, the only1463facility where the physics of the igniting target can be1464studied is the National Ignition Facility at Livermore. So in1465each case, these companies are critically dependent on our1466research teams. We're also home to the most advanced modeling1467and simulation tools to enable them to design their new schemes1468for approaching a commercial scheme for fusion energy. So it's1469a small effort, you know, $15 million to $17 million, but very1470important as a community-building effort in the beginning.1471    I'll just note, for the broader fusion ecosystem, this need1472for investment in public research infrastructure is also1473critically important. And all of the fusion companies, magnetic1474and inertial alike, are counting on the infrastructure at the1475national laboratories to really fill critical technical gaps1476for their schemes going forward.1477    Ms. Lofgren. I'd just note, I mean, there's probably more1478private sector money going into fusion now than public, but1479there's some things only we can fund, the basic research that's1480going to be beneficial to every single company that's exploring1481opportunities.1482    I would note that China is currently building a NIF replica1483that's bigger than what we have, and meanwhile, we have needs1484just to keep up with what we've got.1485    I note that the--in the December releases for fusion from1486the Office of Science, there was an award using AI to address1487questions as to materials science for first-wall fusion issues.1488What else needs to be done in terms of testbeds, which--I mean,1489the fusion scientists did an outline of what we should do. We1490haven't funded it, but China has fully funded it. What do we1491need to do to beat them to the punch on this and to be1492successful in our quest for fusion?1493    Dr. Budil. So I think ramping up the effort at the1494facilities that we currently have in the national laboratories1495to do things like understand the performance of first-wall1496materials and other critical componentry in high-radiation1497environments. These companies need us to help them with the1498tritium fuel cycle, so each of these reactor concepts that uses1499tritium requires a closed fuel cycle concept. Only the National1500Labs really have the infrastructure to advance that.1501    There are other types of materials and systems integration1502questions which are difficult to answer without the1503infrastructure at scale that we have. So the fusion labs--1504Princeton, Lawrence Livermore, Oak Ridge National Laboratory,1505Idaho--have a critical role to play, really, in providing that1506infrastructure.1507    There are a set of new facilities that have been proposed1508by Fusion Energy Sciences in the Office of Science that would1509play a critical role in advancing the cause, but I fear that1510the timescale to develop new facilities means that we need to1511invest more in existing facilities to really try to fill these1512gaps.1513    Ms. Lofgren. I'm not chairing an Appropriations1514Subcommittee, so I will yield back my time since I'm over.1515    Chairman Weber. The gentlelady yields back.1516    The Chair now recognizes Lieutenant Colonel Representative1517Biggs from South Carolina for her 5 minutes of questioning.1518Welcome.1519    Mrs. Biggs. Thank you, Chairman Weber, for holding this1520important hearing today with the National Laboratories. And I1521would like to thank the Directors of Idaho, of Los Alamos, of1522Livermore, and of Argonne National Labs for joining us.1523    And I want to bring attention to our friends, my friends at1524the Savannah River National Laboratory. So the security of our1525power grid is paramount. The modern world is more1526interconnected now than ever before, and with this comes the1527risk of cyber attacks from non-State actors and foreign1528adversaries alike. Savannah River National Laboratory, through1529its Global Security Directorate, supports the United States'1530national security community by focusing its efforts on power1531grid security, electronic warfare, and wireless test and1532evaluation processes.1533    So my question is for each of you. Because of President1534Trump's America First agenda, the United States is ready, once1535again, to strive for energy independence and dominance. We must1536ensure that our energy infrastructure is secure and that it is1537resilient in face of today's threat environment, especially1538from the growing perils of cyber attacks. What are your labs1539doing to address the challenges to energy resilience, and what1540partnerships do you see as critical to the success to reach1541this goal?1542    Dr. Wagner. May I start?1543    Mrs. Biggs. Please.1544    Dr. Wagner. Thank you for the question. So at Idaho1545National Laboratory, in addition to our energy mission, we do a1546lot of work in critical infrastructure security, primarily1547cybersecurity for physical control systems, as well as physical1548security of those systems, partnering with Savannah River and1549other laboratories. We do a lot of work for the Department of1550Energy's CESER office--that's Cybersecurity, Energy Security,1551and Emergency Response--as well as the Department of Homeland1552Security's CISA. That's critical--or Cybersecurity1553Infrastructure Security Agency.1554    So what we do then is we've developed--we've done a lot of1555things. As you probably are aware, there's a lot of control1556systems in our infrastructure that were put in place before we1557understood the cybersecurity risks, so we do vulnerability1558assessments to understand where those are, how to address them,1559working with the control system and the critical infrastructure1560owners to address those risks.1561    We also have developed methodologies to address1562consequence-based cybersecurity measures, such that, as we1563deploy new critical infrastructure, that we deploy it in a more1564cyber-secure way from the very beginning, multiple tools as1565well as training for the different owners of these critical1566infrastructures relative to their vulnerabilities. And lastly--1567I wanted to give time for my colleagues--we are working hard on1568more firm energy sources to shore up the reliability of our1569grid as well. Thank you.1570    Mrs. Biggs. Great. Thank you.1571    Dr. Mason. I can maybe illustrate with an example something1572that relates to your question. At Los Alamos, we've been1573collaborating with our colleagues at Oak Ridge National Lab,1574looking at the application of quantum encryption to the1575controls that support electric grid operation. We've been doing1576this in partnership with EPB, the Chattanooga utility that,1577several years ago, implemented a fiber network across all of1578their grid. And so they're an excellent partner for looking at1579what the future of the grid looks like where you have internet-1580enabled fiber optical connections between the various circuits1581that switch things on and off, which could be a source of1582disruption if a malign actor gained access. And so by applying1583quantum encryption, we have communications protocols that are1584much more resistant to external attack, and so this EPB1585partnership allows us to basically operate testbed for future,1586more secure grid security.1587    Mrs. Biggs. Thank you.1588    Dr. Kearns. There are four, four examples I would cite from1589Argonne. Argonne also does quite a bit of work in the1590cybersecurity and critical infrastructure protection for not1591only the Department of Energy, but for other Federal agencies.1592A great example is really critical infrastructure1593interdependency, looking at, if you will, the impact of1594disruptions to our national gas supply to the electricity1595availability and transmission broadly across the country.1596    Another one is securing massive edge assets, and this,1597again, is looking at assets at the edge of the grid, if you1598will. It might be gas turbines, it might be combined heat and1599power, it might be distributed storage, it might be buildings1600themselves, and the list goes on. It's really the backbone, if1601you will, of the power grid.1602    The third one is supplying--securing the supply chain.1603Certainly, security at multiple levels is critically important,1604talk about materials and components in terms of really enabling1605the power system.1606    And the last one is extreme event assessment and1607mitigation, really understanding the impacts, if you will, of1608extreme weather and how to respond quickly--prepare for and1609respond quickly to those events.1610    Mrs. Biggs. Great. I'm sorry, but my time has expired, and1611out of respect for my colleagues, I yield back.1612    Chairman Weber. Well, the gentlelady would like to yield1613back, but Dr. Budil, would you like to weigh in before we do1614that? I thought you looked anxious.1615    Dr. Budil. Well, that's--how you decide where we sit1616depends on how much you get to talk. But the----1617    Chairman Weber. It's the same way around our dinner table1618just so you know.1619    Dr. Budil. Exactly. We have many of the same efforts I1620mentioned already, our Skyfall lab, where we're really trying1621to understand these cyber-physical systems. Because of our work1622in national security, we have very strong capabilities in risk1623assessment and risk analysis. We understand the threat space1624very well and can bring that, again, in our partnerships with1625the private sector to critical civilian infrastructure like the1626grid, but we also have many partnerships looking at the1627intersection between civilian infrastructure and things like1628military installations, really trying to understand how to make1629those facilities resilient and ensure that critical1630capabilities like that always have secure access to energy in1631their environment. So thank you, sir.1632    Chairman Weber. Now the gentlelady South Carolina yields1633back. Just remember, you owe me.1634    Chairman Weber. The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady1635from Oregon for 5 minutes.1636    Ms. Salinas. Thank you, Chair Weber and Ranking Member1637Ross, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today.1638    This is quite timely to have this conversation in the midst1639of unprecedented attacks on our research enterprise. Reports1640suggest President Trump is looking to cut the NSF (National1641Science Foundation) budget by 2/3. Blanket attacks on diversity1642have thrown existing research grants into question and caused1643panic and confusion amongst researchers. Elon Musk's henchmen1644are running amok at NOAA, threatening critical systems like the1645National Weather Service that researchers and the public rely1646on. Inflation Reduction Act funding has been frozen, and Musk's1647employees now apparently have access to DOE IT systems. And1648finally, in my backyard, the Oregon NIH (National Institutes of1649Health) has announced indirect funding cuts that will cost1650Oregon institutions tens of millions of dollars and hamstring1651critical biomedical research at the Oregon Health and Science1652University.1653    So I just want to be crystal clear. If the Administration1654continues down this path, lifesaving discoveries will fail to1655materialize, young Americans will have fewer economic1656opportunities, and our Nation will be weaker and less1657competitive on a world stage. All of this is a frightening1658state of affairs, as we watch China propel its AI development.1659So has any one of you been contacted by the Department of1660Government Efficiency, or DOGE, and if so, in what capacity or1661for what purpose?1662    Dr. Kearns. I'll jump in first. No, there's been no contact1663at Argonne.1664    Ms. Salinas. Thank you.1665    Dr. Budil. Yes, we've not had any contact at our laboratory1666either.1667    Ms. Salinas. Thank you.1668    Dr. Wagner. The same, no contact.1669    Dr. Mason. No contact at Los Alamos.1670    Ms. Salinas. Thank you. Should anyone from DOGE seek access1671to your internal systems or proprietary data, how would you1672respond?1673    Dr. Mason. I mean, we take direction from the Department of1674Energy, so, you know, if contract direction was given and all1675the necessary requirements were met in terms of security and so1676forth, then we would certainly comply with that direction.1677    Ms. Salinas. If I could follow up on that question, what if1678you were asked to forgo the security requirements?1679    Dr. Mason. The way the labs work is as contractors, we have1680a set of requirements that flow from the Department of Energy1681in the form of DOE orders. Those orders are in our contract. We1682are required to comply with them. If the orders were removed1683from our contract or waived, then that might provide a1684mechanism. But as of the moment, all the security orders are1685still in place, and we are required by contract to comply with1686them.1687    Ms. Salinas. Thank you. So I imagine we might need1688litigation if contracts were not changed to take effect to1689override those security mechanisms. Is that correct?1690    Dr. Mason. I don't know about litigation, but certainly, it1691requires contracting officer direction to change any of those1692things.1693    Ms. Salinas. OK. Thank you. The national labs engage in1694far-reaching partnerships with researchers at academic1695institutions across the country, and in Oregon, these include1696Oregon Tech students working on clean energy solutions with the1697National Renewable Energy Lab, Oregon State driving quantum1698advances with Argonne, and the University of Oregon working1699with the Pacific Northwest National Lab to pursue discoveries1700in materials sciences, just to touch on a few.1701    Have any of you proactively directed any university1702partners to amend or altogether stop research activities in1703response to the Administration's orders on DEI or any other1704executive order?1705    Dr. Kearns. No, not at Argonne.1706    Ms. Salinas. Thank you.1707    Dr. Wagner. I don't believe we have it either.1708    Ms. Salinas. Thank you.1709    Dr. Budil. No.1710    Dr. Mason. No.1711    Ms. Salinas. Thank you. Have any of you heard from1712university partners with concerns about their ability to1713continue research partnerships?1714    Dr. Budil. No.1715    Ms. Salinas. Thank you.1716    Dr. Kearns. No.1717    Dr. Mason. No.1718    Dr. Wagner. And no.1719    Ms. Salinas. Great, thank you. I will yield back my time.1720    Chairman Weber. The gentlelady yields back.1721    The Chair now recognizes Representative Harrigan from North1722Carolina for 5 minutes.1723    Mr. Harrigan. Chairman Weber and Ranking Member Ross, thank1724you very much for holding this hearing today, and to our1725witnesses, thanks so much for your testimony, really appreciate1726it. I would agree with the gentleman from Tennessee who said1727earlier that our National Labs are indeed national treasures.1728And as the American taxpayer invests their national treasures1729into our national treasures, your labs, we expect to have great1730and incredible outcomes from those investments. And I think in1731many cases, we do, but this Committee has heard in Full1732Committee setting testimony that we are behind in research and1733development and a portion of that difference that we've seen1734can be attributed to intellectual property theft.1735    And I'm just curious, as I read through your testimonies1736and have listened to you today, you all control collectively1737tens of thousands of employees. You have thousands of visiting1738researchers. How many of those employees and/or visiting1739researchers are citizens of the PRC (People's Republic of1740China)?1741    Dr. Wagner. So at Idaho National Laboratory, we have1742approximately 50 foreign nationals from China.1743    Dr. Mason. As of right now at Los Alamos, there are about1744100 citizens out of about 18,000 total people working at the1745lab--about 100 citizens of the so-called countries of risk:1746China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran. Obviously, with the new1747language in the National Defense Authorization Act, we are1748working through a process to come into compliance with that by1749the April end date, and so that number is going down.1750    Dr. Budil. So at Lawrence Livermore, citizens of China who1751are not yet legal permanent residents of United States, we have1752just short of 60 people, and we're working to come into1753compliance with the requirements of the National Defense1754Authorization Act. And I just noted in my testimony, this is on1755top of the significant systems we have in place to manage our1756research environment and ensure that we protect sensitive1757technology information, important research facilities, and1758access to our people on a daily basis.1759    Dr. Kearns. At Argonne, Argonne is an Office of Science1760laboratory. The number of foreign nationals is much higher at1761the laboratory. Of the nearly 4,000 total employees, the total1762foreign nationals across Argonne's activities is approximately1763700. Several of those do come from the People's Republic of1764China.1765    Mr. Harrigan. When you say several, are you talking about1766three of the thousand or more than that?1767    Dr. Kearns. I'm talking a few hundred.1768    Mr. Harrigan. A few hundred----1769    Dr. Kearns. Yes.1770    Mr. Harrigan [continuing]. OK. Have either of you--any of1771you, have you had any confirmed cases of espionage at your labs1772dealing with these individuals?1773    Dr. Mason. In terms of the people currently at the lab, no.1774Obviously, over the course of history at Los Alamos going back1775to Klaus Fuchs in the 1940's, yes, there have been instances of1776espionage, which, I would note, generally relates to access to1777classified information, which is something that is denied to1778any foreign national at Los Alamos.1779    Dr. Kearns. None at Argonne. We do operate under what we1780call the managed research environment, which really provides1781really a close look at all we do in terms of engagement with1782foreign nationals, including vetting those that want to come to1783the laboratory to access our facilities or collaborate. We also1784make sure that we are extra careful in terms of scrubbing and1785reviewing any potential partnership opportunities, any1786partnership activities that we might do with a foreign company,1787so no.1788    Dr. Budil. Yes, I'll confirm nothing in even remotely1789recent history at our laboratory. Again, we've been in1790existence since 1952 working in sensitive areas. In addition to1791the things we've said to date about the managed research1792environment, we also have operated across that time with very1793strict controls around classified research, which is segregated1794both physically and by other controls, and no foreign nationals1795have access to that research or those networks.1796    Dr. Wagner. I'd say at Idaho National Laboratory, just like1797the other national laboratories, there's a great level of1798interest from foreign countries in the work that we do. We have1799a number of safeguards that Director Kearns mentioned in terms1800of managing those risks, and we do not have any confirmed cases1801of espionage. But I would say that's largely probably because1802we work very hard to keep an eye and put safeguards in place1803before such things would occur.1804    Mr. Harrigan. Thank you all very much for your testimony.1805And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.1806    Chairman Weber. The gentleman yields back.1807    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Texas, Mr.1808Turner, for 5 minutes.1809    Mr. Turner. Thank you, Chairman Weber and Ranking Member1810Ross. Let me thank you all for what you do. I want to also just1811highlight the importance of the research work you all are doing1812with the grid. I know in Houston in February 2021 it was1813weather-related, but it literally shut down the city and, in1814fact, affected even our water systems. So when you talk about1815weather cybersecurity, we know how detrimental it can be if we1816don't build in resilience and reliability.1817    And then Mr.--Dr. Kearns, I want to thank you all for your1818collaboration with the Greater Houston Partnership with1819ExxonMobil and Chevron. Can you just elaborate a little bit1820more on what y'all are doing to establish a lower carbon1821system?1822    Dr. Kearns. Yes, thank you for the question. The1823partnership really is relatively new, established about a year1824ago, really with great engagement from over 20 industry members1825in the Houston area. We're in the process of working with a few1826of the other laboratories, including the National Renewable1827Energy Laboratory and NETL, the National Energy Technology1828Laboratory, to really settle on a plan of attack, along with1829the industry members there in the greater Houston area.1830    So, right now, we're working to scope this study and really1831kind of understanding how we can be best available and able to1832really help the greater community there in the Houston area as1833they look at low carbon options for base chemical production.1834    Mr. Turner. Well, let me applaud that collaboration.1835    And you all have also mentioned the public-private1836relationships, and, Dr. Kearns, you mentioned the engagement1837with more than 300 universities. Let me just ask, are any of1838those historically Black colleges and universities, HBCUs?1839    Dr. Kearns. Yes, yes. Howard University, since we're here1840in the district, comes quickly to mind, but many others,1841including our North Carolina A&T, for example, working together1842in terms of some of our work associated with environmental1843monitoring activities, and it's been an area that we've really1844been deliberate about in terms of engaging--providing1845opportunities for really all, so thank you.1846    Mr. Turner. OK. And then let me just ask in general. I know1847that there are some offices that have had to be closed because1848of the conversation, the Executive orders on diversity, equity,1849and inclusion. I think recently you had to close an office. Is1850that correct?1851    Dr. Kearns. Yes, at Argonne, we closed the Diversity,1852Equity, and Inclusion Office. We no longer have a Chief1853Diversity Officer. We've discontinued our Diversity, Equity,1854and Inclusion Councils at the laboratory, so many changes have1855occurred, you know, to be in compliance with the new1856directives. Much of that activity was driven by a requirement1857in our contract to develop a DEI plan. That requirement's been1858eliminated as well by the Department.1859    Mr. Turner. And also, can you tell us--elaborate the impact1860of having to close that Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion1861Office?1862    Dr. Kearns. I think in terms of impact, certainly, there1863were individuals employed there that are no longer employed1864there. We've had to really kind of understand their strengths1865and look for other opportunities for them at the laboratory.1866Fortunately, we have what we call the Argonne Leadership1867Institute, which is really focused on the development of all1868our employees at the laboratory in terms of their training,1869thinking about career ladders, what opportunities they see,1870opportunities for them to engage broadly to really strengthen1871their base. And so that's really been what we've talked about1872in terms of not only past activities, but future activities. At1873Argonne, we have a set of what we call the core values. It's1874impact, safety, respect, integrity, and teamwork. That's really1875what we're using to engage with the Argonne workforce broadly1876as we move forward.1877    Mr. Turner. And, Dr. Wagner, have you all been impacted by1878the Executive orders dealing with diversity, equity, and1879inclusion?1880    Dr. Wagner. So we have not had any employees, you know,1881removed or eliminated, and so while we have changed some things1882in terms of what we say and how we talk about things, we have1883not had any further impacts than that.1884    Mr. Turner. OK. And Dr. Mason?1885    Dr. Mason. Similarly, we've made some changes in our1886organizational structure consistent with the contract guidance1887that we received. However, we have--the lab has been growing,1888and we have other needs in human resources, so we've been able1889to accommodate the affected employees and have also made the1890necessary adjustments to both comply with the order, but1891maintain our commitment to maintaining--to having a workplace1892that is free from discrimination and is respectful of everyone1893and the contributions that they bring.1894    Mr. Turner. And, Dr. Budil, unfortunately, my time is out,1895and your seating is--we'll have to work on that.1896    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.1897    Chairman Weber. Well, before you do, let's yield the1898gentlelady some time.1899    Dr. Budil. Our situation is similar to what's described by1900the other labs. We did have an office that we closed. Those1901people--small team of people--spent most of their time really1902working on workforce engagement and building that sense of1903community and team that's so critical to doing big team science1904the way we do, and so we have restructured our program and1905directed them to other activities. So that's the main impact1906for us.1907    And I'll just say that the critical importance of bringing1908together a broad range of ideas, of backgrounds, of experiences1909is really how we drive excellence in our laboratories, so we're1910very strongly focused on continuing that focus on excellence.1911    Mr. Turner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1912    Chairman Weber. The gentlelady and the gentleman yields1913back.1914    I now recognize the gentleman, Mr. Baird, for 5 minutes.1915    Mr. Baird. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, and1916appreciate all of our witnesses being here today. I'm always1917fascinated with the various kinds of basic research that you1918do. A lot of times, that's a precursor to industry doing1919theirs.1920    But, Dr. Kearns, you're probably the closest to our1921district in west central Indiana. In fact, last time I saw you,1922we were at a joint meeting at Purdue University. And I want to1923make sure you understood that Purdue University, right, was1924the--anyway--so anyway, you know, since that lab is so close,1925and I believe the projects really reflect the leading edge on1926quantum science in the Midwest has developed. And in fact, our1927Nation's sole quantum corridor runs from Chicago to Ohio, as1928you're well aware, with most of that corridor in northern1929Indiana.1930    So during this Committee's prior markup of the National1931Quantum Initiative Reauthorization Act, I offered an amendment1932to direct the National Quantum Initiative Advisory Committee to1933study the creation of a national quantum corridor connecting1934our National Labs, our universities, and our military bases1935across the country with the speed and power of a quantum1936computer. So do you think we're headed in the right direction1937with that quantum corridor? And, if so, how can we best secure1938that corridor against any breaches in research in your opinion?1939    Dr. Kearns. Yes, thank you very much for the question. I do1940appreciate the Subcommittee and the Committee's support of the1941National Quantum Initiative, really, in its renewal if you will1942in that regard, I think many good things have happened under1943the National Quantum Initiative. One that's particularly1944important to Argonne has been the stand up of the National1945Quantum Research Centers. We operate what's called Q-Next,1946really focused on quantum interconnects.1947    You know, the fascinating thing to me about this is really1948the strong interest from industry in many aspects, really, of1949quantum information science that we have from industry. We have195011 industrial partners as part of that center. The laboratory1951has had to devote 1 day a week for conversation with other1952industrial--potential other industrial partners that want to1953come to Argonne and talk about quantum science and their own1954ideas and how they might partner with us and other national1955laboratories. I think that's great.1956    In terms of pulling things together, you know, I think the1957Department of Energy, again, through the Office of Science and1958the National Quantum Research Centers--there are five of them--1959it's really created a very dynamic ecosystem. I think,1960initially, the first 5 years has really been focused on1961developing capabilities and building partnerships as we look1962really to moving forward, as suggested by the National Quantum1963Initiative, it's really about further activation of the1964ecosystem that's been established. Many of the, I would say,1965geographic regions of the country have developed quantum1966networks, quantum testbeds, if you will, for quantum1967communications. And there's always interest in thinking about1968linking systems. Can we join our efforts together in terms of1969that national quantum network that you spoke of?1970    The big challenge, technology is not just there yet, and so1971it's really important that we continue to invest both in the1972fundamentals and the engineering aspects associated with1973quantum information science.1974    Mr. Baird. You know, right along with that, it's amazing to1975me how much energy these data centers take. I've had energy1976suppliers indicate to me it's going to quadruple their demand1977for electricity.1978    But anyway, I'm going to go to everyone for this question.1979You know, I mentioned Purdue University, and we've been working1980on the small modular reactors in a nuclear study, and we're1981working with Duke Energy to study the feasibility of using the1982SMR to power an entire college campus. And recently, the1983reactor at Purdue was fully digitized and started back up.1984    So can you elaborate on the challenges that that kind of1985transition and taking it from analog to digital and the1986consequences of that related to the SMRs? And we got 461987seconds, so I'm going to start----1988    Dr. Wagner. So I'll be very quick, but there are increased1989risk in cybersecurity and transfer--transitioning from analog1990to digital. And researchers around the laboratory complex at1991multiple laboratories have been working with utilities and the1992Nuclear Regulatory Commission to address those considerations.1993And actually there's progress been made on a utility in the1994United States to do that as a frontrunner pilot to addressing1995that--those concerns. And I do see that going in that direction1996in the future.1997    Mr. Baird. We got 12 seconds for three of you. You got 41998seconds apiece.1999    Dr. Mason. I would just note that, actually, this is an2000area where DOE did pave the way because the High Flux Isotope2001Reactor at Oak Ridge reached the digital controls well in2002advance of industry. And that, I think, perspective informs2003some of the work that my colleague discussed.2004    Mr. Baird. Mr. Chairman, could I ask for a couple more2005seconds to get----2006    Chairman Weber. Yes, sir.2007    Mr. Baird. I'd like to get--thank you.2008    Dr. Kearns. Yes, certainly, as has already been commented2009on, it's underway. I think it's important that we really stay2010really engaged and really look at the opportunities with open2011eyes and be as smart as we possibly can to make sure that we're2012at the cutting edge in terms of the transition.2013    Dr. Budil. Agreed. And I think Thom's point about2014highlighting the role that we can play in partnership in the2015public sector. We have facilities and experience in many of2016these areas that could really help accelerate this transition2017for industry.2018    Mr. Baird. Thank all of you, and I yield back.2019    Chairman Weber. The gentleman yields back.2020    The gentleman recognizes the Representative from2021California, Representative Friedman.2022    Ms. Friedman. Thank you, Chair Babin and Ranking Member2023Lofgren. For the record, I firmly believe in continued Federal2024funding into basic research, and I am deeply alarmed by Musk2025and President Trump's basic freezing of all Federal funding2026that has very much damaged American scientific leadership. And2027we've heard today about what cuts are doing to your2028institutions. There is massive return on investment from these2029research dollars, as we know, and I think it's idiotic to2030indiscriminately cut funding when we get such a massive return2031for those dollars. Even beyond nuclear energy, which we've2032heard a bit about today, this is key for our national security.2033    And the value of those investments can be seen very clearly2034in California, where we're proud of our scientific leadership.2035We have a long history of being both a national and global2036leader in science and have set the standard for groundbreaking2037research, from aerospace to advanced computing to climate2038change research and clean energy. And that work continues today2039with new technologies like artificial intelligence. We're home2040to leading universities and research institutions that attract2041the best and brightest from around the world, and we are proud2042that our children have access to those great institutions as2043they look for opportunities as they grow.2044    We have collaborations between our national labs and2045leading universities that have fostered a real culture of2046innovation in California. In fact, right outside my district,2047Cal Tech's Joint Center for Artificial Photosynthesis has2048brought together 100 world-class scientists and engineers from2049Cal Tech to partner with Lawrence Livermore National2050Laboratory. Those lab-driven advancements translate to high-2051quality jobs, the kind of jobs that people want for upward2052mobility, and they grow our local economies in California and2053beyond.2054    But we have huge challenges in California. We recognize2055that manmade climate change has led to huge challenges just in2056our State. We are grappling with droughts and huge swings in2057weather, and we know that the megafires that we have seen in2058the last 10 years are a direct result of that climate change.2059And, at the same time, our new--our President is saying that we2060should ``drill, baby drill.''2061    Now, we know what burning fossil fuels means in California,2062where we have the worst air quality in the Nation, especially2063in the Central Valley, and we are suffering in Los Angeles from2064devastating fires that were certainly fueled by drought, made2065much worse by climate change.2066    Director Budil, I am wondering how your research is2067figuring into the clean energy solutions that are not only2068creating great jobs in California but will help us lead the2069world out of the climate change impacts that are being felt,2070not just in California, not just in the United States, but all2071over the globe. And we know that other governments will--are2072looking desperately for solutions, and I think it's pretty2073clear that whoever--whatever country comes up with the2074solutions that will help us escape climate change are going--is2075going to have the world's leading economy because that2076technology is so highly sought after.2077    So what are you doing and what do you see on the horizon2078for those clean energy solutions?2079    Dr. Budil. Thank you for the question. I divide my answer2080into two parts. In the near term, our researchers have been2081working hard to manage carbon in our environment, so how to2082make fossil fuel burning technologies cleaner, how to capture2083and store carbon, how to utilize oil and gas infrastructure2084after it's been expended for some of these efforts. And we have2085been a big part--the labs have been a big part of building the2086national--natural gas economy in the United States. So I think2087that adaptation of those technologies in a way that makes them2088sustainable in the near term is critically important.2089    For the future, we are right at the heart of building this2090future fusion economy, and the United States has an2091extraordinary opportunity to lead on this front. We have many2092of the leading facilities in the world and the only facility in2093the world that's ever achieved energy gain in a fusion2094experiment. So that moves fusion technology from the realm of2095fantasy technology into perhaps a relatively nearer-term2096solution for large-scale baseload energy development with a new2097technology.2098    So we're working very hard to buildup the ecosystem that2099goes along with that and addressing the R&D challenges that2100still remain to making fusion energy commercially viable,2101working with companies to understand the gaps they have, and2102then directing our research to rapidly fill those gaps--again,2103materials, tritium fuel cycle being two notable ones--and2104advancing the state-of-the-art in key technologies for things2105like inertial fusion energy where advanced laser technology,2106high-repetition rate experiments, and higher gain target2107designs, which we can work on at our National Ignition2108Facility, will be central to success.2109    Ms. Friedman. Thank you, and I yield back.2110    Chairman Weber. The gentlelady yields back.2111    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from New York,2112Representative Riley.2113    Mr. Riley. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank2114you to all the witnesses here. I really appreciate hearing2115about all the incredible work you're doing on everything from2116fusion to machine learning, all these things that we really2117need to do to stay competitive in our global economy. It's2118really, really important stuff.2119    I wanted to use my time today to talk about something2120different that's really immediate and hitting close to home in2121upstate New York and something that I want to ask for your help2122with, and that is the opioid epidemic. It's just ripping2123through towns across upstate New York. In west Endicott, where2124I'm from, we've lost some of my high school classmates or their2125parents because of overdoses and addiction. In Sullivan County,2126we're losing two people per month because of overdoses, and2127we're having 10 overdoses per month, so two deaths and 102128overdoses per month in just Sullivan County. Greene County in2129my district, we've got the second highest overdose rate in the2130State. I was at a diner in Catskill in the fall, and it was one2131of the issues that came up over and over again. We're losing2132kids and parents and friends and neighbors.2133    And I think there's a lot of reasons for this. A big part2134of it is, frankly, we've just got a wide-open border when it2135comes to fentanyl trafficking. So you've got China sending2136these ingredients to Mexico, and then the cartels are making2137fentanyl, and then they're smuggling it into America, where2138it's killing our people, and it's got to stop. It's got to2139stop. And I think we really need the help of the best and the2140brightest scientists in this country to do it.2141    We need better technology at the border to stop the2142fentanyl trafficking and to detect the fentanyl. It seems like2143the sort of thing that if we were able to harness the best and2144the brightest scientists in this country, we could find a way2145to detect fentanyl as it's coming to the border. I know that2146there's already some work being done with our national labs in2147partnership with the Department of Homeland Security on this.2148    I put to you all, as some of the leading scientific voices2149in this country, how can we start detecting this fentanyl? What2150do you need from Congress in terms of if we have to give you2151the mission, if we have to have--what do we need to do to2152galvanize some folks to put some of our best and brightest2153minds on this issue?2154    Dr. Mason. I actually have something that might be of2155interest to you, but I'm not able to discuss it in an open2156forum.2157    Mr. Riley. I understand. I would--that sounds even more2158interesting now that you put it that way. And because it's a2159response to my question but also it sounds--now, it sounds even2160cooler. So let's find a time. I'm going to drop off my card2161with you, and let's talk about that.2162    Dr. Budil. So we have something that we can tell you about,2163which is a development of a new countermeasure to counter the2164effect of fentanyl on those who might come in contact with it,2165perhaps not an overdose, but, for example, first responders who2166go out into the field. So using the combination of our2167experimental and computational capabilities, we were able to2168develop a therapeutic that counters the toxic effects of2169fentanyl that could be used for that purpose.2170    Mr. Riley. Incredible. Yes, that's exactly the type of work2171I think we need.2172    Anybody else have suggestions on this? One of the things2173I'd like to work with you all on and work with the2174Administration on is whether there's a way--I mean, you guys2175are just doing incredible stuff, like amazing breakthroughs,2176and I just think that we have the best scientists and2177researchers in this country, and we have this immediate problem2178that is literally killing my constituents. And what I want to2179do is take all of your talents and your skills and put folks to2180work on this mission of detecting this stuff before it gets2181into the country. We've got to get the border secure. We've got2182to do it, and to do that, we need better technology. And to get2183better technology, we've got to have our scientists working on2184it. So I want to support you in supporting that kind of work.2185    And, Dr. Mason, we'll talk after about the super-secret,2186cool stuff that you guys are doing.2187    Thank you, and I'll yield back my time.2188    Chairman Weber. The gentleman yields back.2189    The Chair and recognizes Dr. Foster for 5 minutes.2190    Mr. Foster. Well, thank you. And I guess since we were just2191talking about fentanyl, I can't resist pointing out that2192Argonne National Lab, one--research performed at Argonne won2193the Nobel Prize for the study of the G protein-coupled2194receptor. And this is the actual mechanism when the opioid2195molecule hits the receptor in your brain that causes the addict2196to become addicted. This can be directly imaged and has been at2197the Argonne APS. They can see exactly what happens when the--2198well, the fentanyl and--it's everything that happens after that2199to the fentanyl molecule hits the brain and how that works.2200    And when you get that kind of understanding, we are now2201rolling out medically assisted treatments that directly crowbar2202that receptor so that when the--you know, when the opioid2203molecule arrives, you actually don't--you don't feel it. And so2204it is this kind of research over decades that really--you know2205there are many lines of defense we need against fentanyl and2206the damage it's doing. The last best line of defense is the2207human brain. And if we can find simple ways to crowbar the2208response of the human brain to fentanyl, you won't need border2209security or anything else because no one will be--we won't have2210addicts desperate to buy the fentanyl. And so I'm just really2211proud that that's happened in my district. It was Argonne2212National Lab and the APS.2213    That's--you know, as I mentioned, I--you know, I have2214Argonne in my district, and that was a really, really2215impressive line of research. And I hope--you know, I hope that2216all of the labs will really survive this review that's coming2217up with flying colors because for years prior to COVID, I was2218the Chair of the National Labs Caucus where I got to drag2219Members of Congress to the national labs. And when they2220arrived, they'd--I have no idea this neat stuff is happening.2221And then they were big advocates for preserving the--and2222expanding the budget of the national labs.2223    And so at some point, now that COVID is over, I think we'll2224resurrect that because it's really--you know, it's really2225breathtaking, what's happening. And a lot of it--the labs serve2226as a very powerful flywheel because things tend to go in and2227out of fashion. You know, and fusion--you know, fusion's gone2228in and out of fashion and--in different forms several times2229during my career in science. And it's--and so it's really nice2230that the national labs have a capacity that is there in good2231times and bad. And to make that happen, you have to have2232Congress and the Department of Energy that understands the2233permanent value of keeping the team together, even when, you2234know, it's not popular.2235    And that's why I think it's really going to be an all-2236hands-on-deck moment to preserve the budgets of these so you2237don't see layoffs just because you can during bad times on the2238budgets here. So I think that's--let's see. I have now used up2239like way too much of my time and things--let's see. Is there--a2240little bit--you know, there's a really valuable thing the2241national labs do, which is to curate datasets. You know, I2242think that was mentioned, the protein folding problem datasets.2243That was generated, you know, in large part, well, at Argonne2244and other labs, and that gets curated at national facilities.2245Sometimes that's necessary because of national security2246reasons. Other times, when they're--you know, when there are2247medical privacy reasons that there's been a role for2248laboratories to keep those secret and yet appropriately2249accessible to researchers. And, you know, it's a tough thing,2250and the labs have the background to do that.2251    Director Kearns, can you say a little bit about what2252Argonne's been doing in terms of just curating datasets and2253providing compute for, you know, researchers?2254    Dr. Kearns. Yes, thank you very much. It's a critical2255matter for sure. It is something that not only Argonne but2256several of the other laboratories have strengthened as well.2257    Thank you for mentioning the Advanced Photon Source, a2258tremendous opportunity here to work with the broader scientific2259community, over 7,000 users on an annual basis. I mentioned2260earlier that we've just completed the upgrade, which will make2261it--I think create even more demand for the science that one2262will be able to do there.2263    It does generate a tremendous amount of data, and we're2264working hard to really understand how best to really help the2265researchers take that data and really use it to provide needed2266information to further their experiments and so critical in2267that way.2268    We also have the honor, really, of having a leadership2269computing facility at Argonne, Aurora I mentioned earlier,2270exascale system. Certainly, one of the key aspects in terms of2271really having that kind of compute capability is really being2272able to store and work with large amounts of data. All of the2273exascale systems across the Department, all three of them have2274really been built with, certainly, modeling, simulation, data2275science, and AI in mind. I think Kim mentioned earlier that El2276Capitan has over 40,000, I think, GPUs. Argonne's Intel-built2277system at Aurora has about 60,000 GPUs, so really fantastic in2278terms of----2279    Mr. Foster. So I'm afraid my time is now up, and so--but I2280just want to thank the Chair and the staff for letting me----2281    Chairman Weber. Well----2282    Mr. Foster [continuing]. Come back here. I miss this----2283    Chairman Weber [continuing]. Mr. Foster, if you need to2284move on with two more questions for the other witnesses, we2285don't want to feel--them to feel left out.2286    Mr. Foster. Well, I know I could ask about scientific2287breakeven versus economic breakeven, but I guess I won't go2288there right now.2289    Chairman Weber. I'm getting the--so the gentleman yields2290back.2291    The Chair now recognizes Chairman of the Full Committee,2292Dr. Babin.2293    Chairman Babin. Thank you, Chairman Weber, appreciate it.2294And I want to say thank you to our witnesses here for being2295here today with your valuable introspection and expertise and2296knowledge.2297    I'm going to ask this of all of you witnesses if you don't2298mind, and I would ask you, please be brief because I have other2299questions I want to ask.2300    When we talk about the importance of maintaining critical2301infrastructure facilities and workforce to support our basic2302research, it's important to understand the context of where2303funding went recently. Over the last 5 years, the Department of2304Energy recently close to $100 billion--received close to $1002305billion in supplemental appropriations from the IIJA, the IRA,2306which established over 70-plus new programs. Of the $97 billion2307appropriated to DOE, what percentage and amount went to the2308National Laboratories out of that $97 billion? And how much did2309each of your labs receive from these supplemental2310appropriations? Please answer very, very briefly. How much did2311you get out of the $97 billion?2312    Dr. Wagner. So I cannot speak to the percentage that went2313to the Department of Energy laboratories. I can get back to you2314with that information.2315    Chairman Babin. Please do.2316    Dr. Wagner. For Idaho National Laboratory, we received $1502317million, and we use those dollars toward modernization of2318facilities at our Materials and Fuels Complex----2319    Chairman Babin. OK.2320    Dr. Wagner [continuing]. And Advanced Test Reactor.2321    Chairman Babin. Thank you. Yes, sir?2322    Dr. Mason. Los Alamos received $200,000.2323    Chairman Babin. So $150 million, $200,000. Next, please?2324    Dr. Kearns. Sixty million dollars really devoted primarily2325to helping us with the exascale computer at the laboratory,2326Aurora, and also some work in terms of heat recovery systems at2327the Advanced Photon Source.2328    Chairman Babin. Got you. Thank you.2329    And Dr. Budil?2330    Dr. Budil. So we had a $7 million project that was recently2331de-obligated from the lab.2332    Chairman Babin. OK. Thank you very much.2333    And then, Dr. Wagner, Abilene Christian University in Texas2334received its NRC permit for the construction of the first2335liquid salt fueled reactor and--at Abilene Christian University2336in my State of Texas. However, the project is currently facing2337issues with procuring HALEU fuel for its reactor. How can2338Congress help accelerate this procurement process, and what is2339the current status of the Experimental Breeder Reactor II, EBR-2340II, spent fuel being converted into HALEU? If you could answer2341that, I would appreciate it.2342    Dr. Wagner. Yes, I'll try to be quick. Congress has already2343done quite a bit to try to establish the capabilities2344domestically to produce high-assay LEU or HALEU fuel----2345    Chairman Babin. Right.2346    Dr. Wagner [continuing]. Including $700 million in the2347Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and, more recently, $2.7 billion2348to establish domestic capability. I don't know what Congress2349can do relative to the procurement aspect. That's something the2350Department of Energy is pursuing.2351    On EBR-II, we are reprocessing spent nuclear fuel from the2352Experimental Breeder Reactor II. That was a high-enriched2353uranium fuel. We recover that material, we down-blend it to2354high-assay LEU, and we are making that--we will work with the2355Department to make that available to private companies and2356perhaps Abilene Christian.2357    As of now, we are on our path to reprocessing all that2358material that will result in about 9.2 metric tons of high-2359assay LEU by the end of this decade. We're about halfway2360through that material.2361    Chairman Babin. That's great. It's kind of disconcerting to2362the university to have gotten their permit but not able to be2363able to obtain fuel.2364    OK. As I wrap up, I'd like to address one thing that was2365brought up today that caught my attention. My colleagues have2366mentioned that the Trump Administration's spending pause is2367unprecedented. I'd politely remind my colleagues that the2368previous Administration delayed allocation of funding from the2369IIJA, the IRA and CHIPS and Science laws to add non-statutory2370conditions like union requirements, unnecessary environmental2371reviews, and DEI conditions, not to mention the fact that the2372Biden Administration actually canceled and redirected funding2373for our border wall, which Congress had voted on, signed into2374law, even to the point of selling off the materials of the2375border wall that was unused for 10 cents on the dollar.2376    Unlike the previous Administration, if funding is required2377to be disbursed by a specific time, this Administration said2378that it would do so. If the law allows discretion, the2379President has the authority to review this funding. Given the2380billions of dollars that went out the door at the end of the2381last Administration--specifically, the Loan Program Office at2382Department of Energy that gave out over 50 billion in loan2383guarantees in just the last 5 days of the Biden2384Administration's term, some of those very risky--asking2385questions about funding that was described by previous2386Administration officials as throwing gold bars off the Titanic2387might be a good idea.2388    And so with that, Mr. Chairman, I will yield back.2389    Chairman Weber. The Chairman yields back.2390    The Chair would like to enter into the record a letter from2391the Partnership for AI Infrastructure. Without objection, so2392ordered.2393    I thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony and the2394Members for their questions. The record will remain open for 102395days for additional comments and written questions for the2396Members. This hearing is adjourned.2397    [Whereupon, at 11:53 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]23982399                               Appendix I24002401                              ----------24022403                   Answers to Post-Hearing Questions24042405[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]24062407                              Appendix II24082409                   Additional Material for the Record24102411[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]24122413                                 [all]