“Restoring the SBA: Putting Main Street America First”

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                    RESTORING THE SBA: PUTTING MAIN STREET5                               AMERICA FIRST67=======================================================================89                                HEARING1011                               BEFORE THE1213                       SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT,14                    INVESTIGATIONS, AND REGULATIONS1516                                 OF THE1718                      COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS19                             UNITED STATES20                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES2122                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2324                             FIRST SESSION2526                               __________2728                              HEARING HELD29                             MARCH 11, 20253031                               __________3233[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3435            Small Business Committee Document Number 119-00536             Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov3738                               __________3940                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE4159-421                  WASHINGTON : 20254243-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------44                   HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS4546                    ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman47                        PETE STAUBER, Minnesota48                        DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania49                         BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas50                           JAKE ELLZEY, Texas51                         MARK ALFORD, Missouri52                         NICK LALOTA, New York53                        BRAD FINSTAD, Minnesota54                          TONY WIED, Wisconsin55                      ROB BRESNAHAN, Pennsylvania56                          BRIAN JACK, Georgia57                         TROY DOWNING, Montana58             KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern Marina Islands59                         DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas60               NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member61                       MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky62                       HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan63                      LAMONICA MCIVER, New Jersey64                        GIL CISNEROS, California65                       KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota66                        GEORGE LATIMER, New York67                         DEREK TRAN, California68                       LATEEFAH SIMON, California69                       JOHNNY OLSZEWSKI, Maryland70                        HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey71                    MAGGIE GOODLANDER, New Hampshire7273                 Lauren Holmes, Majority Staff Director74                 Melissa Jung, Minority Staff Director7576                           C O N T E N T S7778                           OPENING STATEMENTS7980                                                                   Page81Hon. Mark Alford.................................................     182Hon. Derek Tran..................................................     38384                               WITNESSES8586Mr. Theodore J. Gutierrez, State Director, Missouri Small87  Business Development Center (SBDC), Columbia, MO...............     888Mr. Alfredo Ortiz, Chief Executive Officer, Job Creators Network,89  Sugar Land, TX.................................................    1090Mr. Richard Trent, Executive Director, Main Street Alliance,91  North Bethesda, MD.............................................    119293                                APPENDIX9495Prepared Statements:96    Mr. Theodore J. Gutierrez, State Director, Missouri Small97      Business Development Center (SBDC), Columbia, MO...........    2998    Mr. Alfredo Ortiz, Chief Executive Officer, Job Creators99      Network, Sugar Land, TX....................................    33100    Mr. Richard Trent, Executive Director, Main Street Alliance,101      North Bethesda, MD.........................................    35102Questions for the Record:103    None.104Answers for the Record:105    None.106Additional Material for the Record:107    H.R. 2027 - Returning SBA to Main Street Act.................    38108    ABC Letter...................................................    49109    DCUC Letter..................................................    51110111          RESTORING THE SBA: PUTTING MAIN STREET AMERICA FIRST112113                              ----------114115                        TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 2025116117              House of Representatives,118               Committee on Small Business,119                         Subcommittee on Oversight,120                           Investigations, and Regulations,121                                                    Washington, DC.122    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:02 a.m., in123Room 2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Mark Alford124[chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.125    Present: Representatives Alford, Van Duyne, Finstad,126Downing, Tran, Cisneros, McIver, Simon, and Goodlander.127    Also Present: Representatives Williams, Velazquez,128Gutierrez, Ortiz, Trent, and Wied.129    Chairman ALFORD. Good morning, everyone. Before we get130started, I want to recognize Congressman Brad Finstad from the131great state of Minnesota to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance132and a prayer.133    Mr. FINSTAD. Thank you. Please bow your heads. Dear Father,134we thank you for (off mic)135    I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of136America. And to the Republic for which it stands, one nation137under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.138    Chairman ALFORD. Good morning, everyone. I now call the139committee on Oversight, Investigations, and Regulation to140order. Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a141recess of the committee at any time.142    I now recognize myself for my opening statement.143    Welcome to today's hearing which will focus on restoring144the SBA to its original mission of serving Main Street America.145First, I want to thank our witnesses, all three of you, for146joining us today on your own time and your own dime. I really147appreciate you being here. I hope this hearing will continue to148be a productive dialogue on how we can ensure that the Small149Business Administration returns to its mission to assist small150businesses while increasing efficiency at the agency.151    Owning your own business is one of the most rewarding152careers in our great nation. The SBA has dedicated resources to153aid job creators who find themselves having a tough time154navigating their entrepreneurial journey. Through the public155private partnership with the Small Business Development Center,156small businesses at all stages can receive critical counseling157and training. SBDCs have many solutions to support main street,158from preparing loan applications to workforce development.159Since we spend taxpayer dollars providing these resources to160entrepreneurs, we must ensure that these programs operate161effectively and efficiently. Importantly, these programs must162be consistent with the intent and mission of the SBA.163    Unfortunately, during the Biden-Harris administration, the164SBA strayed from its core mission and prioritized politics and165misguided policies over American small businesses. An overall166theme was the SBA's flawed operation that limited the agency's167day-to-day work. Notably, the agency's work-from-home policy168for SBA staff hindered its ability to execute its mission up169until a few weeks ago thanks to President Trump and our new170administrator.171    Biden's SBA falsely claimed that it could operate remotely.172But the reality was that the SBA was a ghost town. We saw it173firsthand. When Members of this committee visited the SBA174headquarters, we found rows of empty desks, calendars that had175not been moved since 2020. And this was when they knew we were176coming. The Biden SBA repeatedly failed to deliver for America177small businesses while also failing to conduct sufficient178oversight of its programs. Instead, they focus on turning the179agency into a voter registration arm of the Biden-Harris180reelection efforts.181    It is critical that we conduct the necessary oversight over182the SBA's operations, especially for political initiatives like183voter registration that were well outside the scope of the184agency's core mission, providing support to America's small185businesses.186    As I just mentioned, thanks to President Trump's steps to187address these egregious failures and more are being taken with188the new SBA Administrator, Kelly Loeffler, during this hearing189we will dive into what went wrong. However, it is equally vital190to focus on creating positive change. These efforts should191begin with the untapped potential of the SBA Office of192Advocacy, better known as just Advocacy. The Office of Advocacy193is supposed to serve as the independent voice for small194businesses within the federal government, monitoring and195ensuring compliance with the Regulatory Reflexibility Act and196helping policymakers better understand issues confronting small197business owners.198    Over the years, though, Advocacy has faced several199challenges in advocating for small businesses. Of top concern,200the Biden administration has refused to even nominate an201individual for the position of chief counsel of the Office of202Advocacy, leaving the top small business advocate position203vacant. Last Congress, the committee sent letters to then204President Biden calling on him to fill the position. But205instead, reckless rulemaking followed. While small businesses206were forced to endure Biden's unprecedented onslaught of207regulations, his administration shamefully did not prioritize208appointing an independent voice for small businesses. These209failures have shown just how out of touch the SBA had become.210    It is time. It is time to return the SBA to its core211mission and finally meet the needs of Main Street America. And212that is why I am proud to announce that I have introduced the213Returning SBA to Main Street Act in the U.S. House. The214Returning SBA to Main Street Act was first introduced in the215Senate by the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship216Chair, Senator Ernst. I am honored to introduce the House217Companion Bill to ensure that the SBA workforce is no longer218centered around D.C. and will meet the needs of small219businesses where they are, especially in rural communities in220my district in Missouri's 4th district.221    Today our office sent a letter to Administrator Loeffler222requesting that the SBA's Kansas City Regional Office be moved223to Columbia, Missouri, in accordance with her initiative to224move SBA offices out of sanctuary cities. While Kansas City's225policies are only sanctuary city adjacent, Columbia offers a226far superior alternative thanks to its closer proximity to the227University of Missouri, Missouri's Small Business Development228Center, and the rural communities that reflect the heart of229America.230    Again, I want to thank the witnesses for being here today231to testify.232    And with that, I now recognize my friend and the233distinguished Ranking Member from the great state of234California, Mr. Tran, for his opening remarks.235    Mr. TRAN. Thank you, Chair Alford, and I am pleased to have236the opportunity to serve as the Ranking Member of this237important subcommittee. I look forward to working with you238throughout this Congress to conduct robust oversight of the239Small Business Administration. Thank you to the witnesses for240being here today. I hope to hear more today on how we can241support our small businesses' access the tools they need to242launch and grow successful businesses.243    Let me begin by mentioning that under the Biden-Harris244administration, more than 21 million business applications were245filed. The largest number in a single presidential term in the246history of our nation. Women, minorities and immigrant247entrepreneurs played a leading role in this historic surge.248Business ownership doubled for black households while Latino249and Asian American household reached a 30 year high. More250Americans than ever were able to pursue the American Dream and251that is a milestone that we should be celebrating today.252    We should also be focusing on the achievement of the253previous administration. In fiscal year 2024, SBA approved more254than 76,000 loans in the 7A and 504 programs providing 37.7255billion to small businesses. The Microloan program, which256provides loans up to $50,000, approved 94 million in new small257dollar loans, meaning the smallest of the small businesses were258able to access capital which can be so hard to come by and can259be a barrier for growth. The resource partners offered free and260low-cost counseling to hundreds of thousands of entrepreneurs261to help them tackle the challenges they face every day. And in262part to SBA's efforts, federal agencies awarded 28.4 percent of263federal contracting dollars totaling $178.6 billion to small264businesses.265    The facts speak for themselves. Despite what you may hear266today, SBA is committed to its mission of helping small267businesses. That has been true under each administration, in268large part because of dedicated civil servants. Their work269should be applauded, not demonized. SBA employees workday in270and day--work day and night under the first Trump271administration and through the Biden administration to272implement emergency COVID programs that meant the very survival273of millions of small businesses and nonprofits in this country.274I stand ready to work with everyone here to ensure the275integrity of programs and efficient government. But it cannot276come at the expense of SBA staff working diligently to serve277small employers.278    Turning to the environment today, we are in the midst of279troubling and chaotic times. And in the roughly 2 short months280of the Trump administration, we have lurched from one crisis to281another. Late in the night on January 24th, President Trump282fired SBA's Inspector General Mike Ware without the 30-day283advance notice to Congress or a reason as required by law. Mr.284Ware testified before our committee multiple times about the285potential fraud and the pandemic relief programs and was286praised by Members on both sides of the aisle for his work to287investigate and recover fraudulent pandemic funds. Which I288should note occurred mostly under the first Trump289administration.290    A couple of days later, OMB released a memo requiring all291agencies to freeze federal funding, which led to widespread292confusion for small businesses, lenders, resource partners and293contractors. Small businesses rely heavily on SBA's counseling,294contracting and access to capital programs, and a disruption in295funding, even for a short period of time, could impact the296viability, cash flow and services of small businesses. While297the memo was supposedly rescinded the next day, the White House298press secretary said the freeze remained in full force and299effect. Needless to say, these actions caused undue confusion,300chaos and uncertainty.301    I, along with the Ranking Member, Rep. Nydia Velazquez,302sent an oversight letter to the SBA expressing our concern over303the administration's action to freeze federal funding and to304obtain a list of any and all programs that may have been305affected. Then on February 3rd, we started hearing reports that306Elon Musk and his DOGE team infiltrated the SBA, gaining access307to all of SBA systems, including human resources, contract and308payment system. This breach has widespread implications for309America's 35 million small businesses, potentially endangering310their private information. Despite sending two letters to the311SBA, along with all the Democratic Members of the committee, we312have yet to receive a legitimate response to our questions313about Elon Musk and DOGE team accessing the systems within SBA.314    On Friday, February 7th, hundreds of SBA employees received315termination notices, leaving them and their supervisors316scrambling for information. Then on Monday, February 10th, SBA317officials said it was a mistake only to receive a termination318notice again on Tuesday, February 11th, but this time the319firings were for real and effective immediately. Not only was320this incredibly confusing, but it was mean-spirited, cruel and321made clear that no meaningful thought went into the decision.322And now small firms and farmers all over the country are323reeling from the back-and-forth nature of tariffs with Canada324and Mexico. The uncertainty has left many struggling to keep325up.326    We have seen this before in June 2018 when the Trump327administration launched a trade war with the EU over steel.328America's small distilleries were hit by retaliatory tariffs329and saw production costs rise. For example, Cedar Ridge330Distillery in Iowa faced higher prices for the steel used in331their aging barrels, which led to higher costs in production332and forced them to end plans for expansion. Even the U.S.333Chamber of Commerce has raised the alarm bells of small334businesses scrambling to adjust to the current trade war. For335example, take Pluie Inc., a Texas-based company that makes336diaper changing tables. They are now forced to revisit their337budget, allocating more for tariffs while cutting back on338marketing.339    American small business cannot stomach the chaos, confusion340and uncertainty of a Trump administration and they deserve341better. It is time to work together and conduct real and342meaningful oversight into the administration and the effect it343is having on small businesses.344    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today. Thank345you. And I yield back.346    Chairman ALFORD. Thank you, Mr. Tran. I now recognize the347Chairman of the full committee from the great state of Texas,348Chairman Roger Williams, for an opening statement. Chair?349    Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Chairman Alford, and I am pleased350to announce the first hearing organized by the subcommittee on351Oversight and Investigation Regulations focuses on restoring352the SBA to its foundational mission of serving Main Street353America. And I also want to thank you, all the witnesses, for354being here today, too.355    Now, since the SBA's founding 70 years ago, its mission356statement has renamed--remained the same, and that is to aid,357counsel, assist and protect the interests of small business358concerns. Unfortunately, under President Biden, the SBA359deviated from its core mission of helping America start, grow360and build resilient businesses. For example, instead of361listening to the very real hardships experienced by main362street, like access to capital, inflation and regulatory363burdens, in 2024, the SBA entered into a memo--or an MOU with364the Michigan Department of State, which allowed the SBA to365arrest her voters at its events in Michigan and with a link to366the SBA's website.367    Now, registering voters is undeniably irrelevant to the368SBA's mission, and it is unconscionable that political369activities were prioritized over the voices of small business370owners. And further, the SBA has been operating both371duplicative and unauthorized programs over the years. This is372particularly troubling since the most important programs are373performed on the ground where staffing and resources are374already stretched very thin.375    And it has recently come to the attention of the committee376that the SBA may have attempted to leverage the Small Business377Development Centers to carry out duties that aligned with the378Biden-Harris misguided policies and political initiatives,379pulling them away from the counseling and training programs380that main street and small business owners need.381    Now, to echo subcommittee Chairman Alford and the work of382this subcommittee at large, we must make sure that we are both383doing right by the taxpayer and entrepreneurs that the SBH384programs are streamlined, effective and efficient. Alongside385President Trump and Minister Loeffler, there is a committee--we386as a committee remain focused on putting main street first. And387I am glad to see Representative Alford introduce the House388companion to Chair Ernst's Returning SBA to Main Street Act.389The critical legislation will ensure that the needs of main390street are met by relocating more of the SBA workforce to main391street. In other words, in retail business, take the product to392the customer. Ensuring that all SBA programs are running393effectively is essential to meeting the needs of small394businesses. And the idea shared today will help the SBA's395future and right-size the agency.396    So with that being said, I look forward to today's397important conversation. Want to thank all of you again, and I398yield back.399    Chairman ALFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chair.400    It is now my honor to recognize the Ranking Member of the401full committee from the great state of New York, Ranking Member402Velazquez, for an opening statement.403    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Mr.404Tran. Thank you to the witnesses for being here today. The405purpose of today's hearing is to restore the SBA and put Main406Street America first. Well, we are going to have to sift407through the rhetoric to find the facts.408    Let's begin by talking about the small business boom. More409than 21 million small businesses were created during the Biden410administration. And women and minorities led the way, starting411more businesses, providing for their families and creating412economic growth in their communities. We should be building on413the previous administration efforts. Instead, this414administration in 3 short months has opted to upend one policy415after another and injecting chaos, confusion and uncertainty416for small businesses.417    Let's focus for a minute on the President's on-again, off-418again tariff war with Canada and Mexico. It is a whiplash for419employers simply trying to run their business. The bottom line420is consumer prices will surge. Even the U.S. Chamber of421Commerce recognizes this and publishes a report entitled422``Small Businesses Are Afraid.'' They are worried that the423added cost of tariffs will adversely impact their ability to424remain competitive and turn a profit. Small businesses need425certainty, and instead, they must adjust to chaotic economic426policies.427    Turning to the SBA, we have a tech billionaire rifling428through SBA data and we cannot get a straight answer from the429SBA as to what data has been accessed and why, or even why they430need it. Democrats on this committee sent numerous letters that431have gone unanswered. And while this letter has gone432unanswered, the newly confirmed administrator wasted no time433walking through the SBA, pointing out empty desks for a photo434op on her policy to end teleworking. What was not mentioned was435the mass termination of hundreds of employee's days before. In436less than a week, hundreds of employees were fired, only to be437told it was a mistake. And then they were fired again,438effective immediately. We are still waiting for the agency to439respond to requests detailing the impact and breadth of the440termination so we can understand how it serves the SBA mission.441    And most concerning are the recent reports that employees442of SBA Fraud Risk Management Board, which was created in 2022443to root out waste, fraud and abuse at the agency have been444terminated. And that is in addition to the President firing the445SBA IG.446    How could we have spent 2 years in this committee talking447about curbing fraud in the pandemic programs and sit idly by448while the Trump administration is firing the key people who can449investigate, prevent and recover fraudulent funds? And now, we450are hearing, not being informed that the new administrator is451closing down six regional offices in Democratic cities, not452less, with no plans to relocate them. I can only assume that453this must be part of the reorganization, an effort to RIF454federal employees, all in the name of complying with455immigration executive orders. I hope we get assurances this456won't hinder the agency's mission to provide assistance to457small employers in this city as well as others.458    And while we are speaking of the SBA mission, which is to459assist small employers in accessing capital and entrepreneurial460development, I am curious as to why Administrator Loeffler461likes the idea of SBA taking over the student loan process. Who462is going to take care of this business? Firing the workforce463that works at SBA? And where are the resources when they are464cutting its budget? How does this fit the agency's mission?465That is the real question. While I appreciate the witnesses466that are testifying today, I am frustrated that we do not have467the SBA Administrator here to speak directly to us. We must468conduct real oversight of the SBA and bring in the agency heads469to shed light into what is going on behind closed doors.470    Thank you. And I yield back.471    Chairman ALFORD. Thank you, Ranking Member. Appreciate472that.473    I will now introduce our witnesses for today.474    Our first witness is Mr. Ted J. Gutierrez. Mr. Gutierrez is475the State Director of the Missouri Small Business Development476Center in Columbia, Missouri, in the 4th Congressional477District. Mr. Gutierrez joined the Missouri Small Business478Development Center in 2022, following years of experience at479the Virgin Islands, St. Louis, and Southern Illinois University480locations. Prior to that, Mr. Gutierrez worked as a banker at481Mid Country Bank and a Managing Director of the Jackson County482Mass Transit District in Illinois. Mr. Gutierrez currently483serves on the National Board for America's Small Business484Development Center and as an Education Director for the485University of Missouri's Extension Business Development486Program. Mr. Gutierrez holds a Master's of Business487Administration from the University of Redlands in Redlands,488California, and a Bachelor of Science from the University of489New Mexico in Albuquerque. Thank you for joining us today, sir.490I am looking forward to today's important conversation.491    Our next witness here is Mr. Alfredo Ortiz. Mr. Ortiz is492the chief executive officer of the Job Creators Network in493Atlanta, Georgia. Mr. Ortiz joined the Job Creators Network in4942014. Prior to that, he served as vice president of CSM Bakery495Products Food Service Division and as a consultant for Boston496Consulting Group in their Washington office. He is also worked497in marketing, new product development, and corporate strategy498for Georgia Pacific, Kraft and others. Mr. Ortiz is currently a499Board Member for the Georgia Chamber of Commerce and an500Advisory Board Member for Littler's Workplace Policy Institute.501He is also the co-host of the Main Street Matters podcast. Mr.502Ortiz holds a Master of Business Administration from the503University of Michigan in Ann Arbor and a Bachelor's in504Economics from Pomona College in Claremont, California. Thank505you, sir, for being here today. I look forward to hearing your506testimony and having a great conversation.507    We appreciate all of you being here today. And before we508recognize the witnesses, I want to remind them that their oral509testimony is restricted to 5 minutes. And our Ranking Member510will now introduce the witness for the minority.511    Mr. TRAN. Thank you, Mr. Chair.512    I am delighted to introduce Mr. Richard Trent, the513executive director of Main Street Alliance. Mr. Trent had a514dynamic career prior to joining the Main Street Alliance. As515the Executive Director of Friends of Anacostia Park, Mr. Trent516oversaw one of the East Coast's largest environmental517restoration projects. Today, he is working every day to create518a level playing field for main street small businesses. His519work has helped uplift communities all across the country and,520in turn, boost their local economies. I look forward to your521testimony, which will reflect the voices of the mom-and-pop522small businesses. Thank you for being here.523    Chairman ALFORD. Again, just for the witnesses, I want to524remind you that you have 5 minutes for your opening remarks.525You will see a red clock in front of you that is set to 5526minutes, and when your time is expired, we will gavel you out527and go to the next witness remarks. So thank you.528    I now recognize Mr. Gutierrez for his 5-minute opening529remarks. Sir?530531 STATEMENTS OF THEODORE J. GUTIERREZ, STATE DIRECTOR, MISSOURI532SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT CENTER (SBDC); ALFREDO ORTIZ, CHIEF533  EXECUTIVE OFFICER, JOB CREATORS NETWORK; AND RICHARD TRENT,534            EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MAIN STREET ALLIANCE535536 STATEMENT OF TED J. GUTIERREZ, STATE DIRECTOR, MISSOURI SMALL537                  BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT CENTER538539    Mr. GUTIERREZ. Good morning Chairman Alford, Ranking Member540Tran, Members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to541testify today.542    My name is Theodore (Ted) Gutierrez, and I am the state543director for the Missouri Small Business Development Center544hosted by the University of Missouri Extension. Our network is545dedicated to supporting and advancing the success of Missouri's546entrepreneurs and small businesses.547    We are a proud part of the nationwide Small Business548Development Center system of 63 networks with over 900549locations and over 3,000 professional counselors, advisors,550specialists and support staff.551    For over 43 years SBDCs have been providing one-on-one552counseling services to small business owners and aspiring553entrepreneurs at no cost. During that time, our member networks554have developed a wide variety of services tailored to meet the555needs of Main Street America.556    Some of the subject matter we counsel on and train include557cybersecurity, export assistance, disaster recovery and558resiliency, manufacturing, marketing, sales, ecommerce,559accounting, financial statement analysis, business strategy560development, business plan, basic credit practices, pre-561business startup planning, existing business expansion, and of562course exit strategy and succession planning, and many more as563dictated by our statute.564    SBDCs continue to evolve to meet the needs of America's565small businesses. We are tasked with providing almost every566conceivable form of technical assistance to small businesses in567our respective states. Each SBDC network is nationally568accredited which distinguishes us among available resources.569Our networks leverage the accreditation to evaluate and update570our services to meet the changing needs of our clients who571drive our services. Our economic impacts and performance572numbers are based on attributed verified input from our573clients.574    By sheer volume, locations and economic impact, the SBDC575program is the number one resource in the United States and its576territories providing technical assistance and training for577entrepreneurs and small businesses. In FY `22-'23,578Congressional funding or investment for America's SBDCs579translated to $216.4 million in federal revenues generated and580$327.2 million in state revenues generated. Every federal581dollar received rendered $1.59 in federal tax revenue and $2.40582in state tax revenue. A new job is created every 6.5 minutes. A583new business is started every 33.3 minutes. Our clients584experience an average of 15 percent annual sales growth585compared to the national average of 6.2 percent with $6.6586billion in sales. SBDC is providing 90 percent of SBA's access587to capital assistance. SBDCs served 92 percent of SBA's588technical assistance clients.589    Despite SBDC's economic impact generation and ROI, here are590a few challenges we face. Funding priorities versus demand for591our services, both federal and local. Political agendas which592lead to mission drift. Funding to bring on more staff with593industry expertise. Funding for technology and implementation594in ways to reach additional small businesses in need of help,595especially in rural America. Funding to provide disaster596planning, resiliency and recovery.597    Here are a few challenges faced by Main Street America.598Confusion of resources available. Uncertainty of economic599climate, i.e., high interest rates, taxes. Supply chain600disruption. Increased costs of the workforce, minimum wage601laws. Finding and hiring people who are reliable and want to602work. And of course, disaster recovery efforts and strategies603for long-term recovery. SBDCs are the first responders to a604natural disaster or disaster and SBDCs are there during and605after the disaster.606    So we ask how can the SBA be restored? Simply by putting607Main Street America first. The SBA is responsible for608dispersing the allocated Congressional funding and609administration of our grant program. It is important to610distinguish that the SBDC is not part of SBA nor are employees611of SBA.612    Over the years, SBDCs have worked with SBA administrators613from every administration. We do that because SBA is our614partner, just as our host universities, states, banks and615economic development groups. The SBA is ready for clarity of616purpose and vision to serve entrepreneurs and small businesses.617The SBA should remain an advocate for the millions of small618businesses in our country not focused on political agendas. SBA619has many fantastic tools and partners. They need to use them620appropriately and efficiently. To regain public trust in the621SBA, it must focus on providing resources and collaborate with622partner programs such as the SBDC so every entrepreneur can623work towards achieving their dream and contribute to the624overall well-being of our economy. Every entrepreneur from the625wheat fields to the shops of Main Street America should have626the same opportunity for success.627    This concludes my testimony. Once again, thank you Chairman628Alford and the committee for allowing me to speak here today.629    Chairman ALFORD. Great timing. Thank you.630    Let's go to Mr. Ortiz for his 5-minute remarks. Sir?631632 STATEMENT OF ALFREDO ORTIZ, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, THE JOB633                        CREATORS NETWORK634635    Mr. ORTIZ. Good morning, Chairman Alford and distinguished636Members of the Oversight, Investigations, and Regulations637Subcommittee.638    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on the vital639topic of restoring the U.S. Small Business Administration. My640name is Alfredo Ortiz and I am the CEO of Job Creators Network641and the nation's largest conservative small business advocacy642organization.643    It is no secret that small businesses have faced historic644challenges over the past few years. These include the COVID645pandemic and the heavy-handed government response, as well as646the weak economy characterized by high inflation and647overregulation. The Biden administration implemented a nearly648$2 trillion regulatory burden that disproportionately harmed649small businesses. Now, more than ever, small businesses need an650effective agency in Washington looking out for them.651    Unfortunately, the Small Business Administration has let652entrepreneurs down over the past few years. Under the Biden653administration, it prioritized political activities such as654voter registration and diversity, equity, and inclusion over655the real concerns of small businesses.656    Ignoring repeated urging from Chairman Williams and the657broader small business community, the Biden Administration658never even nominated a chief counsel for Advocacy, leaving a659key office unfilled that could have acted as the voice of Main660Street during this difficult period.661    The SBA also did not adequately require its staff to return662to work, resulting in an office vacancy of 90 percent by one663estimate. No wonder American small businesses have lost faith664in the SBA.665    That changes with the trusted and proven leadership of666Administrator Kelly Loeffler. The SBA now has the opportunity667to restore its core mission of helping small businesses. That668means ending the agency's politicization and bureaucracy,669requiring staff to return to work and engaging in rigorous670oversight and accountability.671    Under the Chief Counsel of Economist Casey Mulligan, who672successfully led Trump's Council of Economic Advisors in his673first term, the SBA's Office of Advocacy can finally get the674leadership it needs to be small businesses' independent voice675within the federal government.676    The Office of Advocacy plays an important role in ensuring677compliance with the Regulatory Flexibility Act, which the678previous administration routinely ignored to the detriment of679small businesses. JCN is fighting to pass the Prove It Act,680which fulfills the intent of the Regulatory Flexibility Act and681gives small businesses a seat at the rulemaking table. But682until then, a strong Office of Advocacy can reduce red tape and683stand up for the small businesses in Washington.684    Once restored, the SBA can take steps to do even more good685for small businesses. At the top of this list is prioritizing686training programs to teach entrepreneurs the skills they need687to survive and thrive. Teaching small businesses how to fish so688they can be successful for the long-term.689    The SBA should harmonize existing private sector small690business efforts by the likes of Goldman Sachs and American691Express in a public-private partnership small business training692program. This program will teach entrepreneurs the basics of693succeeding in today's economy, including building a convincing694business plan, identifying suppliers and selling online.695    These efforts can significantly reduce the first-year small696business failure rate, which currently stands at about 20697percent. Decreasing this failure rate to around 10 percent,698let's say, would result in millions of more small businesses699and millions of jobs over the years, significantly700strengthening the American economy.701    A key component in this more effective SBA is heeding702Chairman Alford's recommendation to move personnel to regional703offices closer to the small businesses they serve. It is704impossible for the Washington SBA to have its pulse on the705needs of Main Street in communities from coast to coast. SBA706loan making should also be conducted by third-party community707banks with this lending expertise and community relationships.708    Under the leadership of Administration Leffler and Chief709Counsel Mulligan as well as the oversight of this committee,710the SBA can be restored and reinvented into the agency that the711American small businesses want and need. Thank you very much712for your time, and I would be happy to answer any questions you713may have.714    Chairman ALFORD. Thank you, sir.715    I now recognize Mr. Trent for his 5-minute opening remarks.716717  STATEMENT OF RICHARD TRENT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MAIN STREET718                            ALLIANCE719720    Mr. TRENT. Chairman Alford and Ranking Member Tran, thank721you for the opportunity to testify today.722    I am Richard Trent, the executive director of Main Street723Alliance, representing over 30,000 small business owners724nationwide. Our members span industries, but they share a725fundamental need; a stable, predictable economy that allows726them to plan, invest and grow. Unfortunately, that stability is727being undermined not by market forces alone, but by reckless728decision making that injects uncertainty into the economy and729disrupts small businesses ability to operate.730    While some argue that regulations are the biggest burden on731small businesses, our members tell us otherwise. Their greatest732concerns aren't red tape. Their instability at key agencies,733policy reversals, and economic disruptions that shake their734ability to plan for the future.735    Today, I want to focus on three urgent issues that are736fueling uncertainty and putting small business survival at737risk.738    First, I will just say that SBA instability is hurting our739entrepreneurs. The Small Business Administration is a lifeline740for 35 million small businesses. Yet recent mass firings,741sudden program changes and bureaucratic delays have thrown742thousands of entrepreneurs into limbo.743    Patrick DePula, owner of Salvatore's Tomato Pies in744Madison, Wisconsin, is actively repaying an economic injury745disaster loan that kept his doors open during COVID. If the746U.S. enters a downturn, the SBA's ability to offer hardship747waivers will be critical. But staffing cuts raise serious748concerns about whether those safeguards will still exist.749    Shannon Burns, an entrepreneur and consultant in750Alexandria, Minnesota, helps new small businesses craft751business plans. With 20 million new businesses launched since7522020, SBA's resources are needed more than ever. Yet reduced753staffing will limit access to these vital services.754    Molly Moon Neitzel, who testified here a few weeks ago,755owner of Molly Moon's Ice Cream in Seattle, Washington, was756expanding her business when she learned of leadership changes757and staffing cuts at the SBA. She had contracts signed and758investments made, and any delay in finalizing her loan would759have made that devastating for her.760    Decentralization must be strategic and planned, not761weaponized in ways that create chaos for businesses. All of762this is happening against a backdrop of inflationary pressures763and market uncertainty. The trade war escalations and erratic764tariff policies are already impacting small businesses. 2 weeks765ago, a Dodge Ram truck cost $80,000. Now it is $100,000. If766that is what is happening to trucks, imagine the impact on767restaurants, grocery stores and retailers that rely on imports.768Ballooning deficits and corporate tax loopholes put upward769pressure on interest rates.770    Second, it is important to note that federal funding771freezes and data breaches are direct attacks on small business772stability. When federal funding is frozen or misused, the first773to feel the impact are small business owners who rely on these774funds to keep employees on payroll and communities thriving.775    A tech entrepreneur in Utah lost multiple contracts when776the freeze stalled nonprofit sales, disrupting a revenue777pipeline. A Wisconsin childcare provider feared delays in state778block grant funding would leave her unable to pay staff. And a779researcher in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, had her federally funded780projects suspended overnight, leaving her uncertain about her781income and career.782    These aren't abstract concerns. They are real businesses,783real jobs, and real consequences. And when federal funds stop784flowing, they don't just delay government projects, they slow785down entire economies.786    And beyond funding freezes, the DOGE seizures of sensitive787IRS data is an existential threat. One of the world's richest788men now has access to bank statements, tax records and789competitive financial data of millions of businesses, including790his own competitors. This is not draining the swamp; it is791stocking it with more crocodiles. No CEO in America should have792access to that kind of intelligence, which destroys fair793competition and erodes trust in government institutions.794    The third thing I will bring up is just that SBA office795relocations and the Ernst Bill will hurt local economies. We796have seen what happens when abrupt agency relocations gut797institutional knowledge and destabilize communities. In 2019,798the USDA moved two research agencies from D.C. to Kansas, and79975 percent of employees resigned; stalling grants, research and800hurting local businesses that relied on federal contracts.801    Now the Administrator's memo mandates that SBA regional802offices relocate from sanctuary cities, turning thriving small803business hubs like Boston, Atlanta, Denver and Seattle into804collateral damage for political posturing.805    I urge this committee to focus on practical, bipartisan806solutions in light of the current economic uncertainty. Fully807staff the SBA so it can meet the needs of entrepreneurs.808Unfreeze critical funding that small businesses rely on. Block809corporate access to sensitive financial data to preserve fair810competition. And reject policies that inject instability into811the economy and instead strengthen Main Street's ability to812compete.813    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.814    Chairman ALFORD. Thank you, Mr. Trent. Well done.815    We now move to the Member questions. Under the 5-minute816rule, I recognize myself for 5 minutes.817    Mr. Gutierrez, this morning I was proud to introduce the818Returning SBA to Main Street Act. A companion bill to819Chairwoman Ernst's bill in the U.S. Senate. Mr. Gutierrez, over820the past four years you have had firsthand experience working821to fill the gap, somewhat big gap, left by a political SBA. Can822you speak to us about how an SBA that is actually focused on823Main Street could actually help small businesses?824    Mr. GUTIERREZ. Thank you for the question, Congressman.825    You know, having SBA focus on what the mission and values826of SBA should be on supporting small businesses is crucial. I827know that several SBA field offices are short on staff. I know828that many of them were not necessarily available to help as829soon as help was needed. Therefore, we were able to fill the830gap, along with some other resource partners as well.831    But SBA essentially just needs to focus on what it is they832re doing and serving the small businesses, relying on its833partners to work and to help on the front lines. Having SBA in834the field would be a tremendous asset to small businesses,835particularly in, you know, throughout the--throughout the836Midwest, of course, working with the community bankers to837having those subject matter experts in the field would be838amazing.839    Over the past few years, we have had one SBA representative840in the field of Missouri down in Springfield, and the others841were located in both St. Louis and Kansas City. So that is842simply just not enough assistance from SBA throughout the843state. And of course, anytime that assistance was needed, they844typically referred them out to the partners such as SBDCs, the845Women's Business Centers, the Veterans Business Outreach846Centers and SCORE as well.847    Chairman ALFORD. So what would it mean if we ended up848moving the Kansas City SBA office to Columbia?849    Mr. GUTIERREZ. Well, Columbia will be very excited to have850SBA presence there again. I believe that during COVID, the SBA851office was removed at that time. And so, just having that local852presence, that local subject matter, would do wonders because853it will mean more availability to community bankers. Being854central to the state would be more access throughout the state855within a 5- or 6-hour drive anywhere across the state. And it856would just serve as a signal that SBA is here and ready to help857serve in the communities.858    Chairman ALFORD. Mr. Ortiz, SBA Administrator Loeffler has859echoed the President's return to office mandate. SBA staff are860now required to be in the office 5 days a week. While this is a861great start, you have further recommended that funding regional862initiatives like entrepreneur centers would be a more efficient863use of taxpayer dollars. Please explain your reasoning for that864recommendation, sir.865    Mr. ORTIZ. Thank you, Chairman Alford, for the question.866    Having education and innovation centers, I think,867regionally closer to where there are small business owners are,868would be extremely, I think, well received by our small869business owners. I doubt that there are too many small business870entrepreneurs out there in, let's say, Des Moines, Iowa, that871decide, hey, I want to start my own small business. Let me get872on a plane, fly up to D.C., and enter the halls of SBA to873help--help me do that. They need them there. They need them874where they are, where the ideas are. We need to bring those875resources to the people. Where the people are, not here in D.C.876    One of the recommendations I had made is let's just close877down the D.C. offices. I don't see why we would need that. I878think we need those resources out in the fields. We need879support for folks like Mr. Gutierrez here. And we need to be880able to support our small business owners where they are, which881is in the fields because they are not in D.C. And so, I think882having the opportunity to do that, I think, would make the 1.4883billion, roughly, that is allocated for the department much884more effective and more efficiently.885    Chairman ALFORD. Thank you, sir.886    Mr. Gutierrez, back to you. Though the COVID-19 pandemic887was declared over in '23, Community Navigators programs888continue well into 2025. In fact, that program's set to sunset8899 months from now. Some people call it walking-around money for890Biden-preferred organizations. It seems that Community891Navigators has a reputation for not being very efficient. Can892you walk us through how the Community Navigators program893duplicated efforts already done by SBDCs?894    Mr. GUTIERREZ. So my understanding with the Community895Navigators program is that each state was allocated a certain896amount of funding and it was granted towards a certain NGO or897nonprofit. And to be quite honest with you, the SBDCs in898several states actually hosted the Navigators program. In the899state of Missouri, we did not. We were actually never contacted900by the Navigators program. I cannot speak to any type of901results, or any type of information produced by the Navigators902program other than we knew they were there somewhere in903Missouri, and I don't even know if they are staffed anymore. So904as far as duplication of efforts, we were doing that all along905for 43 years. We will be doing it for another 43 years.906    Chairman ALFORD. Thank you. I now recognize the Ranking907Member for 5 minutes of questions.908    Mr. TRAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In less than a week,909between 400 to 700 SBA employees were terminated with notice,910then informed the terminations were a mistake, and then fired911effectively immediately, effective immediately. Many of these912employees were veterans, injured or disabled workers, and913workers with years of service. Mr. Trent, can you please share914how these terminations will affect small businesses who rely on915these employees for loans, disaster aid, and small business916assistance?917    Mr. TRENT. Well, I can say that well over half of our91830,000-plus membership have applied for funding through the SBA919and a significant portion actually rely on different loan920products or technical assistance. Over the last couple years,921the SBA has offered, honestly, a real bespoke service to small922business owners. We have got members in our cohort who speak923directly to regional officers, loan officers that help them924drive business sustainability. So the mass firing of between925400 and 700 people will inevitably have a direct impact on926entrepreneurs' ability to successfully navigate the challenges927that present themselves every single day as a small business928owner.929    Mr. TRAN. Thank you, Mr. Trent. Last Thursday,930Administrator Loeffler announced that she is relocating six931regional SBA offices away from sanctuary cities. Can you932describe the effect the closure of these offices will have on933Main Street businesses in urban areas?934    Mr. TRENT. Well, it is really unfortunate because what it935means is that you have got honest, hardworking entrepreneurs936that are now caught in the middle of a game of political937football that none of them wanted to have anything to do with938in the first place. I will say that the example from 2019, the939relocation of the USDA offices, is a good example of what940happens. When the USDA office was moved from D.C. to Kansas941back in 2019, 75 percent of the workforce left. The local shops942that depended on that regular foot traffic languished. And943Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney at the time was actually caught944saying that this was all designed just to fire people,945essentially. So it would be good, I think that if we, if we946talked about it in those sort of blunt terms is just like,947yeah, we wanted, we would like to get rid of folks at the SBA.948But this is a PR sleight of hand that is really disadvantaging949folks. And the local economies will--that are--that thrive on950that foot traffic in Atlanta and Boston and Denver are951certainly going to feel the effects of it.952    Mr. TRAN. Thank you for that. And then on March 3rd of9532025, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce published a report titled954I'm Afraid Small Businesses Speak out on Tariffs. The report955found that terrorists will have a real devastating impact on956thousands of small businesses across the nation and on all957Americans in the form of higher prices. What are you hearing958from the small businesses in the Main Street Alliance?959    Mr. TRENT. I have an inbox filled with terrified messages,960phone calls, and text messages from small business owners that961aren't really sure how they are going to continue operating if962some of these tariffs go through. I mean, we saw a report963released from NFIB, historically the conservative voice for964small business America, just came out and showed that February96512 percent of small business owners thought it was a good time966to expand their business. That is a 5 percent drop from the967previous month, the largest drop in that indicator since April9682020 when COVID struck. So you have got folks that are really969scared out here and it is no laughing matter.970    Mr. TRAN. Thank you, Mr. Trent. I am going to shift to you,971Mr. Gutierrez. SBDCs have received level funding over the972years, yet you are being asked to do more and more with less973and less. Can you please share the importance of full funding974for the SBDCs? And how does lurching from one continuing975resolution to another hurt SBDC's ability to counsel small976businesses?977    Mr. GUTIERREZ. Thank you for the question. So when a CR978happens to be quite honest with you, it doesn't affect us979because we all have to do what we do on a daily basis, and that980is serve our clients. What it does is it promotes the reliance981on our host universities to help or to offset any type of982potential funding slowdown. And as far as SBDCs being out there983and doing the things that we do, we just keep our head down,984focused on serving those small businesses, and make sure that985we are able to do what is asked of us, what is tasked of us986through the grant program that we are tasked with, so.987    Mr. TRAN. So thank you, Chairman. I yield back.988    Chairman ALFORD. Thank you, Ranking Member. I now recognize989Mr. Finstad from Minnesota for five minutes.990    Mr. FINSTAD. Thank you Mr. Chairman, and thank you for991holding this important subcommittee hearing today. And thank992you to our witnesses for taking time to be with us. Over the993past four years, small businesses across our country have been994struggling to keep their doors open with the impacts of record995high inflation, supply chain disruptions, and burdensome996regulations hindering their growth. I have heard firsthand from997small businesses across my district about the impact that they998have felt over the last few years here and what it has meant to999their businesses and opportunities or lack of opportunities1000across Southern Minnesota.1001    So that being said, I want to go to Mr. Ortiz. As President1002CEO of the Job Creators Network, you know the important role1003the SBA plays in supporting small business owners. One of the1004things that I have seen in past experience working in federal1005government is the ability to meet the customers' needs. And1006that is usually a relationship based, face to face, how can I1007help you kind of situation. And so, I am really happy to hear1008that Administrator Loeffler has returned the SBA to in person1009work. And so, just want to know from you, do you believe this1010move will improve the services at SBA?1011    Mr. ORTIZ. Congressman, thank you for the question. I1012believe the face to face is critical for the interaction for1013small business owners, for their success. I still would say1014that we have to get more people out to the field, to the1015resources where the small business owners are. It is great that1016there are some small businesses here in the D.C. area serving1017the community and serving Congress, but that is not where the1018bulk of our small businesses are. It is out in the field. It is1019out, you know, in Pella, Iowa, in Portland, Oregon. It is all1020across the country. That is where they need to be, and that is1021where the resources need to be allocated. And so, I think it is1022a great step in the right direction, but I think we need to go1023further and we need to reallocate those resources out to the1024fields.1025    Mr. FINSTAD. Thank you for that. And all I would say is1026preach, keep preaching. And I represent a district of 211027counties, pretty rural Southern Minnesota. And a lot of times1028these counties feel like they are flyover land for1029organizations like SBA. And so, I completely agree with you.1030    Moving a little bit. In February, I was proud to1031reintroduce, for the second time the House passed the Prove IT1032Act. And the PROVE IT Act, it received the Job Creators Network1033endorsement. And this bill would give our small businesses a1034voice in the regulatory process as they work to serve their1035communities and pursue the American dream. What impact, Mr.1036Ortiz, do you think that the passage of this legislation would1037have on small businesses in navigating the regulatory1038environment?1039    Mr. ORTIZ. Thank you, again, for the question, Congressman.1040This is a game changer for small businesses, no doubt about it.1041And we are glad to see that Senator Ernst also introduced the1042companion legislation in the United States Senate on this. This1043is critical. I think for too long, agencies have been given a1044pass in terms of trying to do what they are supposed to do,1045which is show the impact to small businesses on regulations.1046Too many waivers have been signed to basically say, no, it is1047actually fine. And small businesses have been hurt all along1048the way. They don't have the resources to come and bring all1049their lawyers and, you know, 12 lawyers and everything else1050that they need at the end of the legislative process to try to1051challenge stuff and go to the Supreme Court. They don't have1052the resources to do it. They are trying to run their businesses105324/7. And so, having the opportunity to finally force agencies1054to actually consider the effect of regulation on small1055businesses is critical. And having the opportunity to have a1056seat at the table at the beginning of the process rather than1057the end of the process is absolutely critical. Again, this is a1058game changer, and I think we need to do everything we can to1059make sure that it passes quickly, swiftly, and in this1060Congress.1061    Mr. FINSTAD. I appreciate those comments, and I couldn't1062agree more with you. It is, you know, really a dereliction of1063duty from Congress because we pass these good intended laws, we1064leave it up to the regulatory state to create all the hoops,1065and loops, and bells, and whistles, and the rules and1066regulatory climate that our business has to live under with no1067opportunity to weigh in on, wait a minute, you know, this is1068going to impact us. And to your point, small businesses don't1069have stables of lawyers and compliance officers.1070    Mr. ORTIZ. Right.1071    Mr. FINSTAD. And so, giving them more power in the1072regulatory process is something I am going to work hard for,1073so, I appreciate your support on that.1074    One last question here for Mr. Gutierrez. As Missouri's1075SBDC director, you more than likely have a great pulse for what1076is impacting small businesses across your state. How has the1077regulatory environment impacted small businesses in your1078community? And what can we do here in Congress to ensure Main1079Street businesses have the ability to grow and prosper?1080    Mr. GUTIERREZ. Sure. One big topic for a lot of small1081businesses, well, for most small businesses, has been the1082Corporate Transparency Act that was introduced, I believe it1083was, last year, and then rescinded, and then paused, and going1084back and forth. That has some very, very tough situations----1085    Chairman ALFORD. The gentleman's time has expired. I now1086recognize Mr. Cisneros from California for five minutes.1087    Mr. CISNEROS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The conclusion of1088the majority's hearing memo included, you know, the SBA's Mr.1089Ortiz's testimony included ending the Agency's politicization.1090Mr. Gutierrez shared that the SBA should not focus on political1091agendas. Mr. Trent, you highlighted to us that this shouldn't1092be about partisanship. We all agreed. And we should not be1093politicizing the SBA. And this committee has passed multiple1094bipartisan pieces of legislation, unanimously. So far, today,1095we heard the SBA should go to where the people are, put Main1096Street America first. Yet we have an administrator, an SBA1097administrator, targeting major cities led by Democratic mayors1098as she seeks to close SBA regional offices in Boston, Seattle,1099Chicago, Atlanta, New York City, and Denver. And it is probably1100not long before my area of Los Angeles County is on that list1101as well.1102    So, Mr. Trent, in your view, how does the brazen1103politicization of SBA to close offices in major metropolitan1104areas impact small businesses?1105    Mr. TRENT. Yeah, it impacts them directly. And listen, I1106feel for and have thousands of small business owners in rural1107areas, Minnesota, Wisconsin. And I hear from them, you know, it1108is absolutely, it can be tough to access some of these SBA1109resources. And you know what, it is okay to talk about maybe1110moving a couple staff to different parts of the country to have1111more direct service for rural entrepreneurs. But the truth is1112that you have got hundreds of thousands of entrepreneurs1113concentrated in Atlanta, in Denver, in Boston, that are going1114to feel the effects of sort of this move away from these1115entrepreneurship hubs. And it is really unfortunate, I would1116say. And we can already feel the rumblings, and it adds to this1117environment of uncertainty for entrepreneurs that are going to1118have to take on more costs, frankly, just to meet basic1119technical assistance needs.1120    Mr. CISNEROS. Thank you for that answer. Again, Mr. Trent,1121you represent a nationwide network of over 30,000 small1122business owners, many of which depend on the SBA. In your1123testimony, you urge the committee to reject policies that1124inject instability into the economy. As we have seen with the1125Trump tariffs, the President is on again, off again, based on1126whoever is in his ear at that given moment. Main Street is1127getting whiplash. How important is it for small businesses to1128have stability?1129    Mr. TRENT. It is unbelievably important. So, around 501130percent of small businesses across the country are operating1131with about a month of operating reserves. So, we have got to be1132making decisions that are reflective of the fact that we1133respect these small business owners. We respect where they are,1134right, with that little operating reserve. And the uncertainty1135around the tariffs, the will they, won't they soap opera, it1136affects budgeting for entrepreneurs. It affects planning. It1137affects the way that they are thinking about growing their1138teams in the year ahead. And so, there are the direct impacts1139as tariffs start to come into play. But then there are the1140knock-on effects that we are really not going to be able to1141know the full extent of the problem until six months, a year1142from now.1143    Mr. CISNEROS. Thank you. According to the SBA's own1144website, the Office of the Inspector General provides1145independent, objective, and timely oversight to improve the1146integrity, accountability, and performance of SBA and its1147programs for the benefit of the American people. The SBA1148administrator on day one said, from day one, the SBA will1149uphold the highest standards of accountability, performance,1150and integrity. Mr. Trent, how can the SBA have the highest1151standards if the office tasked to provide oversight is vacant?1152Did President Trump's illegal firing of the Inspector General1153already undermine the administrator wanting to uphold the1154highest standards of accountability and integrity?1155    Mr. TRENT. It is going to be tough without someone in that1156office as that Inspector General is not just the main person1157investigating a lot of fraud and abuse within the agency, but1158also a sounding board for thousands and thousands of1159entrepreneurs across the country. So, with that post vacant,1160that is an ally for small business owners that is not there1161right now. And frankly, it is going to be scary for our1162entrepreneurial class.1163    Mr. CISNEROS. All right, well, thank you for your testimony1164and I yield my time back.1165    Chairman ALFORD. Thank you, Mr. Cisneros. I now recognize1166Chairman Williams from the great state of Texas for five1167minutes.1168    Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And Mr. Trent, on a1169side note, thanks for being here.1170    Mr. TRENT. Absolutely. Thanks for having me.1171    Mr. WILLIAMS. You are saying Dodge pickups went up from1172$18,000 to $20,000?1173    Mr. TRENT. $80,000 to $100,000.1174    Mr. WILLIAMS. Yeah, I am a Dodge pickup dealer.1175    Mr. TRENT. It is a good truck.1176    Mr. WILLIAMS. In Texas. And we are selling for $70,000.1177    Mr. TRENT. So it sounds like a good profit off----1178    Mr. WILLIAMS. So, you need to get down there and see me.1179    Mr. Gutierrez, as we have been discussing, bloated and1180duplicative SBA programs waste taxpayers' dollars and undermine1181the efficiency of the effectiveness of services provided small1182business. Could you elaborate on ways the committee can1183streamline SBA programs?1184    Mr. GUTIERREZ. Sure. I love the idea of having more SBA1185presence in the field to serve the rural communities. I believe1186that there is a lot of programs that were created to duplicate1187some of the services that we have been doing for over 40 years.1188For example, I believe the Navigators program was designed to1189reach those underserved populations. We are already there. We1190are already serving the underserved populations from rural1191America to Main Street, Saint Louis, Main Street, Kansas City,1192to down in Joplin, Missouri. We do all that sort of stuff.1193    So to have that money duplicated to a whole new agency or1194organization, you are recreating the wheel. We have been doing1195it for, like I mentioned, over 40 years. During the time that1196there was CARES Act money, we were allocated a large amount of1197money. Our results doubled or sometimes tripled in some of the1198areas.1199    When that funding did go away, we were left with. We called1200what we believe would have been the COVID cliff where the money1201dried up, but the demand for our services didn't. We are still1202at an all-time high. So the services that we provide, we often1203have up to two weeks before someone can come in and see one of1204our business counselors in the rural area. But as far as1205duplication of process, we are the ones, the first ones here.1206We will be the last ones out the door because we are here every1207day, doing what we need to do to serve Main Street America.1208    Mr. WILLIAMS. Thank you. Mr. Ortiz, as you mentioned in1209your testimony, assessing the performance of SBA programs is1210important to maximizing utility of a taxpayer resource in1211aiding and supporting small businesses. So my question to you1212would be, what performance metrics would you suggest the SBA1213consider implementing to maximize the effectiveness of the SBA1214program?1215    Mr. ORTIZ. Chairman Williams, thank you very much for the1216question. In this era of DOGE, I think trying to achieve that1217combination of effective and efficient is what we need to do1218here. And with the SBA, that is one of the things we need to do1219as well. I think it is important that we set metrics to know1220that we are successful. One of the biggest metrics that I see1221that we can do, and this is a very, very tangible one, is this1222failure rate of small businesses. For example, the failure rate1223for small business first year is about 20 percent. And when you1224look into the number one reason why, it is because they don't1225know how to create a business plan.1226    So again, I go back to the teach the fishermen how to fish.1227Let us actually teach them how to create business plans.1228Imagine if we could reduce that failure rate in four years from122920 percent to 10 percent. You have 33 million small business1230owners. One could actually conceive that you create another 151231million small businesses by doing so. And if each small1232business employs two people, you have just added 30 million1233more American small businesses or jobs to those small1234businesses. And so, there is an important metric there that we1235need to take into account, establishing, I guess, this1236effective and efficient combination of a $1.5 billion agency.1237It is not necessarily about saving money. It is just about1238making those dollars work harder for American taxpayers.1239    Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, that is great. And we know that small1240business is the backbone of our country; 99 percent of the1241businesses are small businesses; 75 percent of the workforce1242and payroll is done by small business.1243    Mr. ORTIZ. That is correct.1244    Mr. WILLIAMS. And we have got to keep risk and reward in1245their life all the time, where they can take some risk and get1246reward and not be burdened by regulations in the federal1247government. Easier to compete against each other than to1248compete against the federal government.1249    Mr. ORTIZ. That is correct. But----1250    Mr. WILLIAMS. I think every single day. With that, Mr.1251Chairman. They have never been cheaper than they are today, Mr.1252Trent, let me tell you that, okay. And thanks for letting me1253have fun with you, okay. I yield my time back.1254    Chairman ALFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I now recognize Mrs.1255McIver from New Jersey for five minutes.1256    Mrs. MCIVER. Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Member for1257having this hearing and thank you to our witnesses for joining1258us today. This hearing could not come at a better time1259considering the rapid changes occurring at the Small Business1260Administration. SBA's work has helped turn the dreams of1261countless everyday entrepreneurs into reality and has helped1262thousands climb up the socioeconomic ladder in America. My home1263district, the 10th District in the great state of New Jersey,1264is proud to host the SBA New Jersey Regional Office, providing1265important services all over the Garden State. For years, SBA1266employees have worked hard for the American people, and we owe1267it to them to ensure that they are treated fairly while1268performing their work for our communities.1269    As mentioned in this committee hearing today, we have heard1270over and over again about the reckless firings of hundreds of1271employees at SBA, including the probationary employees, which1272is why I introduced the MERIT Act to ensure that these1273employees are granted back their jobs immediately and the1274backpay.1275    I have heard from many of you today about the strains on1276the Department, which obviously trickle down to the businesses1277and the support that they are able to get. So for each of the1278witnesses today, I would like to ask, do you support the firing1279of these hundreds of employees? We can start with Mr.1280Gutierrez.1281    Mr. GUTIERREZ. Under the current direction of the1282administration, I would say yes.1283    Mrs. MCIVER. It is funny because in your opening statement,1284you said that they were short staffed. So, I mean, the SBA is1285already short staffed, but you support the firing of these1286hundreds of employees that was just recently fired?1287    Mr. GUTIERREZ. I would say that the majority of the1288firings, from what I understand and what I have read, are out1289of the D.C. area as opposed to what is going on in the field. I1290know that the field has been really underrepresented, and I1291believe that when you have any type of transition like this1292that could lead to potentially more stability down the line,1293that is something that, from a private standpoint, that goes to1294efficiency. So, yes, I understand that there has been lots of1295jobs left or lost, but to my point earlier, those jobs are1296never out in the field, and they were never really affecting a1297lot of the regions that they were in.1298    Mrs. MCIVER. Do you know that for sure?1299    Mr. GUTIERREZ. Well, I can speak directly to the Missouri1300and the Kansas City offices.1301    Mrs. MCIVER. But not for the entire, not for every office1302or every----1303    Mr. GUTIERREZ. Of course not. I can't speak for across the1304nation.1305    Mrs. MCIVER. Okay, thank you. Mr. Ortiz?1306    Mr. ORTIZ. I worked at a consulting agency called Boston1307Consulting Group. This is something that we used to do day in1308and day out, is trying to make sure that we have an1309organization that is more effective and efficient for, in this1310particular case, it is not an organization, but it is an agency1311that works for the federal government who actually is taxpayer1312funded. We have a responsibility to our small business owners1313to make sure that we have the most effective and efficient not1314only agency, but people working for it. I was a small business1315owner, and I will tell you that I bet everything I had on my1316small business, and I wanted to make sure that every small1317business owner that goes to the SBA knows that they have the1318most effective and efficient people working in the Agency.1319    Mrs. MCIVER. It is a yes or no, Mr. Ortiz.1320    Mr. ORTIZ. Well, that is my answer, ma'am.1321    Mrs. MCIVER. So you don't--it is yes or no. Do you support1322the firings of those people?1323    Mr. ORTIZ. I support a more effective and efficient agency.1324    Mrs. MCIVER. Okay, next. Mr. Trent?1325    Mr. TRENT. No.1326    Mrs. MCIVER. Thank you.1327    Mr. TRENT. Yeah, I mean, I come at this work as a veteran1328family. And so, I think when I think of SBA, I think of veteran1329entrepreneurs. My grandfather served in World War II. My1330brothers, both in the Army. One went to, was deployed to Iraq.1331You have got thousands and thousands of veteran entrepreneurs1332who started businesses. That growth rate in veteran-owned1333businesses doubled in the first two years of the Biden1334administration. Now you have got those same veterans who served1335our country defending the freedoms that a lot of us take for1336granted, who have had the rug pulled out from under them as a1337result of these mass firings. It is shameful.1338    Mrs. MCIVER. Thank you so much for that. I want to thank1339the witnesses, even those who kind of skated around the1340question. But the point of the matter is, is we have to make it1341make sense. We cannot sit up here and say that, you know, it1342is, we need a more efficient, we need to have more help at SBA.1343We hear from different businesses all the time about the delay1344in assistance that they can get from SBA sometimes. So,1345saying--sitting up here saying that we support the firings or1346we don't support, there is not enough staffing, it is just not1347all making sense. And we should be supporting our small1348businesses and making sure we are delivering to them as much1349assistance that we can do. That is our job here, not to be1350making things harder for them.1351    Thank you. With that, I yield back.1352    Chairman ALFORD. Thank you. I ask unanimous consent for Mr.1353Wied from Wisconsin to wave onto this hearing without1354objection. So ordered. I now recognize Mr. Wied for five1355minutes.1356    Mr. WIED. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for allowing me to speak1357in today's hearing. And thank you to the witnesses who came1358here to share their experiences with us. Northeast Wisconsin is1359home to a wide variety of small businesses who have faced1360economic uncertainty due to an overreaching and overtaxing1361federal government. As a former small business owner myself, I1362know the challenges you must overcome to operate and grow a1363successful small business. Under this previous administration,1364small businesses across the country faced increased regulatory1365burdens, which made starting, running, and growing a small1366business more difficult.1367    At the same time, the Small Business Administration enacted1368policies, such as allowing its employees to work from home,1369that negatively impacted small businesses. It is important that1370as a committee, we address these broken and burdensome policies1371and make Main Street America great again.1372    My first question is for Mr. Ortiz. In your opening1373statement, you spoke about the additional $2 trillion of1374regulatory burdens levied on businesses during the Biden1375administration. Having fewer employees and less financial1376services, small businesses bear an increased burden of these1377additional regulations. As Members of the Small Business1378Committee, what should our top priority be to reduce these1379regulations and provide immediate regulatory relief to small1380businesses?1381    Mr. ORTIZ. Thank you very much for the question,1382Congressman. One of the hardest things during the past four1383years under the Biden administration for small businesses was1384the regulatory environment that existed. About $1.8 billion1385that was placed on our businesses across the country. And also1386inflation. When you take those two together, it was a huge1387burden for small businesses. And quite frankly, when you look1388at it, compared to our large corporations, it was an extreme1389danger, really, for our small businesses on Main Street. And1390so, we have to make sure that we reduce that regulatory1391environment.1392    I heard the Congressman on this side talk about 21 million1393small business applications, for example, filed. In our cursory1394review of those 21 million small business applications, those1395are actually gross applications. So, for example, they are not1396actually net applications. For example, if I had a business in1397New York and I am trying to flee New York to go to Florida1398because there are less taxes and less regulatory environment1399there. That Joe's Pizza Place that moves from Texas, excuse me,1400from New York down to Florida is considered a new business,1401according to the Biden administration numbers of those 211402million applications.1403    And so, when we look at the net applications, actually,1404small businesses didn't grow in those four years of the Biden1405administration. They shriveled because of that regulatory1406environment and because of high inflation. And so, we have got1407to make sure that we address those, too. And the last I1408checked, the SBA is not a jobs bank. It is an environment. It1409is an agency that needs to serve the American small business1410owner, and there are 33 million of them that are struggling1411right now. Thank you.1412    Mr. WIED. All right, thank you. I yield back.1413    Chairman ALFORD. Thank you, Mr. Wied. I now recognize Ms.1414Simon from California for five minutes.1415    Ms. SIMON. Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the1416witnesses. We don't have to argue that small businesses are the1417backbone of our economy. I love this committee because we1418consistently lift that up. You know, there are many issues that1419have been covered in this hearing, and I will repeat some of1420them. You know, my concern, the concern of many is that we have1421come together as a committee with a profound mission of1422advancing opportunities for small businesses in this country.1423    You know, just in the last few days, we know that 403s and1424401(k)s have been thrown out of the window for folks. Folks1425have lost so much. We also know that in this committee, we have1426said together, cross aisle, we will make a commitment to1427disabled folks, to our veterans, to women-owned businesses, on1428Main Street, on Telegraph Street, on Broadway Streets. And here1429we are having a conversation, trying to figure out how to1430advance our way forward. I think we all know what we want. We1431want a more efficient sector. We want a government agency that1432can show up at the doors, where the websites work.1433    Within the last two weeks, hundreds of SBA workers have1434been fired. Fired. We are talking about closing down six1435agencies in major cities in this country. So, I want folks who1436are watching to know the dry cleaner, the auto repair dealer,1437the barber shop, the woman who called my office yesterday, who1438is starting a home care business to make sure that our elders1439have trained wonderful MAs at their homes every single day1440doing work that many of us have never done. Where is she going1441to go? She called from outside of my district to get support.1442You know what, she will be on the phone for hours. The1443websites, they were already difficult to access three1444administrations ago, four administrations ago. What are we1445doing? What are we doing?1446    And now, we have this conversation that has become real,1447that tariffs have met the doors of our small businesses. We1448know that entrepreneurs are already working day and night to1449keep their doors open. We also know that the cost of doing1450business in the last couple of weeks has shot up. These1451policies are cruel. They are cruel and they don't focus on low-1452income, and middle-income, and working-class people who are1453trying to get off a government dole, who want to make good for1454themselves, and offer the folks in their communities, and their1455sons, and their daughters, jobs. They want to send their kids1456to college.1457    We are kicking them in the ribs. Not only the folks who1458work for Small Business Agency, but the folks who are on the1459ground. You hire an Inspector General and you fire them. You1460fire tons of workers, hundreds of workers. And then we have a1461policy that chooses to enact tariffs that will destabilize this1462country. It is cruel. And we know that. We don't have to1463litigate that. Any one of us who have run small businesses, who1464have run payrolls. I have ran payrolls since I was 19 years1465old. I have hired hundreds of workers. I have trained workers1466to leave incarceration in the streets, in foster care, to get1467jobs. Whether they are doctors or lawyers or medical providers,1468I have done that work. I know how hard it is to keep an1469institution alive when you are by yourself.1470    Fine, close six agencies and see what happens to our1471economy. We will see. We will see. When you fire IRS workers,1472when you fire frontline workers in communities that are helping1473small businesses. I have to ask, do we care? Do we truly care1474about folks on the ground?1475    You know, I have one quick question, which I think I know1476the answer to. You know, with all that we are talking about, I1477want to say before I ask my question, and it will be quick.1478This fiscal year alone in my district, our local SBA office has1479served, served on the, like, literally on the front lines, 8221480small businesses offering $351 million of direct loans to keep1481businesses afloat. If we care, we would advance those1482opportunities, not take them away. You are automating support1483through these actions.1484    You know, Mr. Trent, only have a couple of seconds left.1485How can having field offices near metro areas be a strategic1486choice and also an effective use of taxpayer dollars to serve1487small businesses? How can having these offices near metro areas1488be a strategic choice to support small businesses? Just a quick1489answer.1490    Mr. TRENT. I will just quickly say that because a lot of1491these city centers are hubs for entrepreneurship where there is1492a real preponderance of small business activity----1493    Chairman ALFORD. The gentlewoman's time has expired. The1494Chair now recognizes Mr. Downing from Montana.1495    Ms. SIMON. Thank you, sir.1496    Mr. DOWNING. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you to the1497witnesses. Under the Biden administration, SBA suffered from1498serious mismanagement that hindered the Agency's ability to1499support small business. You know, through irresponsible work1500from home policies, DEI mandates, and voter registration1501efforts, Biden's SBA prioritized politics and bureaucracy over1502the interests of Main Street America.1503    First, Mr. Gutierrez, your testimony demonstrates the power1504of small business centers, or SBDCs, to assist small businesses1505and, you know, produce a return on taxpayer investment. So,1506from your experience as the director of Missouri's SBDC, how do1507they help support rural businesses which very often lack access1508to the information and training needed to thrive?1509    Mr. GUTIERREZ. Thank you for the question. So, the Missouri1510SBDC serves all 114 counties in the city of Saint Louis. It is1511a large footprint across the state with 18 business service1512centers and two satellite locations. With a staff of 33 full-1513time folks. That is simply just not enough.1514    Mr. DOWNING. Right.1515    Mr. GUTIERREZ. Unfortunately, we are not able to have a1516physical presence. However, with the introduction of different1517technologies, such as Zoom, Teams, things of that nature, we1518are able to reach more folks. We try to set up regional1519meetings where we are meeting with several different counties1520at once. We set up a revolving schedule to meet with different1521cities, so we are there on a regular basis. But simply the fact1522is that we are stretched thin, just like many of our other1523partners in the field that are frontline, and we are doing as1524best as we can.1525    I mentioned earlier that sometimes because of staffing1526issues and funding issues, it could take up to two weeks before1527they are able to see anybody in person at one of our rural1528business centers. We are just trying to do a lot with little.1529    Mr. DOWNING. Well, thank you. So, how did the SBA's work1530from home policies under the previous administration negatively1531impact your SBDC?1532    Mr. GUTIERREZ. Quite honestly, they didn't impact us at all1533because we were on the ground. We were meeting with the1534businesses on a regular basis. We knew that the SBA offices1535were there. We helped support them whenever possible. But1536during the last three or four years, we often found that1537traveling to the SBA offices in both Kansas City and Saint1538Louis, unfortunately, the personnel was not there.1539    Mr. DOWNING. Okay.1540    Mr. GUTIERREZ. I remember showing up for a meeting and1541nobody was there with the meeting with our SBA representative.1542So it is just a matter of, you know, we are doing the best we1543can to meet the needs of small business in rural America, and1544of course, obviously, Main Street America as well.1545    Mr. DOWNING. Thanks. According to a 2024 report from this1546committee, the Biden administration attempted to leverage SBDCs1547to promote voter registration activities. Were you ever1548approached by the Biden administration to support their voter1549registration efforts?1550    Mr. GUTIERREZ. Fortunately, in the state of Missouri, we1551were not.1552    Mr. DOWNING. Do you believe the administration would have1553approached you if Missouri were a more competitive state in1554their presidential politics?1555    Mr. GUTIERREZ. I would like to think that we would not have1556been approached, but I can't answer that hypothetical.1557    Mr. DOWNING. Thank you, Sir. Moving on. Mr. Ortiz, in your1558testimony, you emphasize the truly egregious nature of SBA's1559political activities under the Biden administration. How have1560these activities damaged SBA's reputation as a reliable partner1561for small businesses across our country?1562    Mr. ORTIZ. Thank you, Congressman, for the question.1563Unfortunately, small business owners just don't believe and1564trust in the SBA anymore. I think they look to other partners1565outside of the SBA. And quite frankly, there are a lot of great1566partners out there. Goldman Sachs, American Express, for1567example, run some fantastic small business programs. Sir, Mr.1568Gutierrez runs great programs as well. So, I think what we need1569to do is we need to restore confidence in the SBA.1570    Mr. DOWNING. And what steps can SBA take to restore1571confidence with small business?1572    Mr. ORTIZ. Well, I mentioned already in the testimony, I1573think part of it is we got to move resources out to the fields.1574Better resources, more effective resources. I think, you know,1575certain folks were let go. I would question, and make the1576question is maybe they were--maybe they should have been let go1577because they weren't exactly the most effective resources for1578our small business owners. We need to make sure that we ensure1579people who have the experience to be able to make suggestions,1580for example, on how to create small business plans for small1581business owners. We talk a lot about, and the left talked1582about, the Democrats talked a lot about establishing small1583businesses need certainty, for example. Well, if they needed1584certainty, I wonder why they didn't vote, for example, in the1585last budget, you know, the budget bill. None of them voted for1586a budget that included the extension of the Tax Cuts and Jobs1587Act. If they need certainty----1588    Mr. DOWNING. And how important do you think that is for1589Main Street America, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act?1590    Mr. ORTIZ. It is hugely important. In 2017, with the Tax1591Cuts and Jobs Act, that provided the impetus for the successful1592economy that we had was the two biggest parts of the small1593business needs were the tax deduction and the immediate1594expense----1595    Chairman ALFORD. The gentleman's time has expired. We now1596recognize Ms. Goodlander from New Hampshire for five minutes.1597    Mr. DOWNING. Thank you.1598    Ms. GOODLANDER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you,1599Ranking Member Tran. I really believe deeply in the work of the1600Oversight Subcommittee. We all swore--one thing that unites us1601all in this committee and in Congress is we all swore an oath1602to protect and defend this important document, the United1603States Constitution. And one of the core responsibilities of1604Congress is oversight. It is because oversight is about1605transparency, which is essential to public trust. Oversight is1606essential to cracking down on waste, fraud, and abuse, which I1607am deeply committed to. Oversight is about making sure that our1608government works for hardworking people. And that we give the1609American people and our small businesses the certainty that1610they need and deserve.1611    Another core Constitutional responsibility of Congress is1612the power of the purse, the power to direct and control federal1613spending. And that is because we live in a democracy and not in1614a monarchy. And so, what we have seen in the last 51 days is an1615unprecedented assault on this power of Congress. It is an1616assault that is lawless, it is dangerous, and it has had a1617really bad impact on so many of our small businesses and1618workers across this country and across New Hampshire.1619    Mr. Trent, you testified that federal funding freezes are a1620direct attack on small businesses, on the stability that small1621businesses need. And that is certainly what I am hearing from1622small businesses across New Hampshire who are unsure about1623whether they can keep workers on payroll; who aren't sure how1624they are going to provide health care to those workers. I1625wondered if you could say more about what you are seeing from1626federal funding freezes across the country.1627    Mr. TRENT. So, we have got hundreds of members that were1628directly impacted by those funding freezes and the impact1629ripples throughout their own local economy. One member in New1630Glarus, Wisconsin, runs a childcare facility. Worried about1631state block grant funding. She thought that she might not be1632able to make payroll the next month and would have to fire half1633of her team.1634    We have in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, a member who does1635groundbreaking research for the government. She logs into her1636funding portal one morning and finds that the funding that was1637supposed to be powering her work was nowhere to be found.1638Totally, totally frozen. We have still got folks who are1639wrestling with these freezes, and everyone is just told to be1640excited about the incoming deregulation regime. And so, it is1641really unfair. And we are certainly hearing from most of our1642members that this is something that is impacting them every1643single day.1644    Ms. GOODLANDER. Well, I should say also, the impact of1645these freezes has been on SBA workers in the state of New1646Hampshire. It is not just here in the Capital. It is across the1647country in field offices, which is harming our small1648businesses, too.1649    Mr. Trent, you wrote about a subject that I care deeply1650about, fair competition. And I think it is another issue that1651should unite us all here in Congress. Our antitrust and1652consumer protection laws are as old, the ideas in them are as1653old as America. It is about checking power. And here on the1654Small Business Committee, we are about bringing power back to1655our small businesses at a time when the American economy has1656never been more consolidated.1657    You wrote about the impact of the unprecedented access that1658an unelected billionaire in the White House has to the1659sensitive data of small businesses and of people across the1660United States. You testified that this destroys fair1661competition alongside the destruction of public trust. Can you1662say more about that?1663    Mr. TRENT. So there is a reason why Walmart doesn't have1664access to the books of the mom-and-pop stores right down the1665street from it. There is a reason why no other CEO in this1666country has access to the bank statements, taxpayer data, of1667small businesses because it is an unbelievably unfair1668advantage. And this includes the taxpayer data and bank1669statements of some of Elon Musk's actual competitors. And so,1670we need to be doing everything in our power to make sure that1671the playing field is level for small businesses to compete.1672    And I will just respond by respectfully disagreeing with1673some statements around deregulation and tax code that have been1674made with. Deregulation can be good, but very often the1675benefits accrue to the largest companies in the world. The1676repeal of Dodd-Frank and the lessening of restrictions around1677capital requirements inevitably led to the fallout of Silicon1678Valley Bank. J.P. Morgan was quick to gobble up thousands and1679thousands of depositors while a lot of different small banks1680languished. Right. The tax code, 82 percent of surveyed small1681business owners believe that the tax code is currently rigged1682against them, favoring large corporations. So you have got a1683growing sentiment among small business owners that things1684aren't fair and we need to do something to fix that.1685    Ms. GOODLANDER. Thank you.1686    Chairman ALFORD. The gentlewoman's time has expired.1687    Ms. GOODLANDER. I yield back.1688    Chairman ALFORD. All right. Thank you so much. I want to1689personally thank each and every one of you. Mr. Gutierrez, Mr.1690Ortiz, and Mr. Trent. It was a fascinating conversation today.1691Thank you for your testimony and your investment in small1692businesses in our future. I want to thank Ranking Member Tran,1693and all the Members of this subcommittee, and also the staff,1694which really is the impetus and the hard work behind what goes1695on here. So thank you, staff. Without objection, Members have1696five legislative days to submit additional materials and1697written questions for the witnesses to the Chair, which will be1698forwarded to the witnesses. I ask the witnesses to please1699respond promptly to those. If there is no further business,1700without objection, the committee is adjourned.1701    [Whereupon, at 11:30 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]17021703                            A P P E N D I X17041705[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]17061707                                 [all]