Oversight Hearing – The United States Navy and Marine Corps

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34              DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE APPROPRIATIONS FOR 20265_______________________________________________________________________67                                 HEARINGS89                                 BEFORE A1011                           SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE1213                       COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS1415                         HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES1617                     ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS1819                              FIRST SESSION20                               ___________2122                         SUBCOMMITTEE ON DEFENSE2324                    KEN CALVERT, California, Chairman25JAKE ELLZEY, Texas,                     BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota,26  Vice Chair                              Ranking Member27HAROLD ROGERS, Kentucky                 MARCY KAPTUR, Ohio28STEVE WOMACK, Arkansas                  HENRY CUELLAR, Texas29ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama             PETE AGUILAR, California30JOHN R. CARTER, Texas                   ED CASE, Hawaii31MARIO DIAZ-BALART, Florida              SUSIE LEE, Nevada32DAVID P. JOYCE, Ohio                    JOSEPH D. MORELLE, New York33CHARLES J. ``CHUCK'' FLEISCHMANN,34  Tennessee35DAVID G. VALADAO, California3637  NOTE: Under committee rules, Mr. Cole, as chairman of the full38committee, and Ms. DeLauro, as ranking minority member of the full39committee, are authorized to sit as members of all subcommittees.4041       Adam Sullivan, Ariana Sarar, Jacquelynn Ripke, Adam Harris,42          William Adkins, Kiyalan Batmanglidj, Taylor Schwenke,43           John Forbes, Gina Pizziconi Cupples, Kyle Mcfarland,44                            and Maxwell Morgan45                            Subcommittee Staff46                                 ________4748                                  PART 24950                                                                   Page51Oversight of the United States Navy and Marine Corps...........       152National Guard and Reserves Forces.............................     16153Oversight of the Department of Defense.........................     2875455                [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]5657                                ________5859          Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations6061             DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE APPROPRIATIONS FOR 20266263              DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE APPROPRIATIONS FOR 202664_______________________________________________________________________6566                                 HEARINGS6768                                 BEFORE A6970                           SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE7172                       COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS7374                         HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES7576                     ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS7778                              FIRST SESSION79                               ___________8081                         SUBCOMMITTEE ON DEFENSE8283                    KEN CALVERT, California, Chairman84JAKE ELLZEY, Texas,                     BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota,85  Vice Chair                              Ranking Member86HAROLD ROGERS, Kentucky                 MARCY KAPTUR, Ohio87STEVE WOMACK, Arkansas                  HENRY CUELLAR, Texas88ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama             PETE AGUILAR, California89JOHN R. CARTER, Texas                   ED CASE, Hawaii90MARIO DIAZ-BALART, Florida              SUSIE LEE, Nevada91DAVID P. JOYCE, Ohio                    JOSEPH D. MORELLE, New York92CHARLES J. ``CHUCK'' FLEISCHMANN,93  Tennessee94DAVID G. VALADAO, California9596  NOTE: Under committee rules, Mr. Cole, as chairman of the full97committee, and Ms. DeLauro, as ranking minority member of the full98committee, are authorized to sit as members of all subcommittees.99100       Adam Sullivan, Ariana Sarar, Jacquelynn Ripke, Adam Harris,101          William Adkins, Kiyalan Batmanglidj, Taylor Schwenke,102           John Forbes, Gina Pizziconi Cupples, Kyle Mcfarland,103                            and Maxwell Morgan104                            Subcommittee Staff105106                                 ________107108                                  PART 2109110                                                                   Page111Oversight of the United States Navy and Marine Corps...........       1112National Guard and Reserves Forces.............................     161113Oversight of the Department of Defense.........................     287114115                [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]116117                                ________118119          Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations120121                  U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE12212361-960                    WASHINGTON : 2026124125                   HOUSE COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS126127                      TOM COLE, Oklahoma, Chairman128129HAROLD ROGERS, Kentucky,                ROSA L. DeLAURO, Connecticut,130  Chairman Emeritus                       Ranking Member131ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama             STENY H. HOYER, Maryland132MICHAEL K. SIMPSON, Idaho               MARCY KAPTUR, Ohio133JOHN R. CARTER, Texas                   JAMES E. CLYBURN, South Carolina134KEN CALVERT, California                 SANFORD D. BISHOP, Jr., Georgia135MARIO DIAZ-BALART, Florida              BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota136STEVE WOMACK, Arkansas                  DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, Florida137CHARLES J. ``CHUCK'' FLEISCHMANN,       HENRY CUELLAR, Texas138  Tennessee                             CHELLIE PINGREE, Maine139DAVID P. JOYCE, Ohio                    MIKE QUIGLEY, Illinois140ANDY HARRIS, Maryland                   GRACE MENG, New York141MARK E. AMODEI, Nevada                  MARK POCAN, Wisconsin142DAVID G. VALADAO, California            PETE AGUILAR, California143DAN NEWHOUSE, Washington                LOIS FRANKEL, Florida144JOHN R. MOOLENAAR, Michigan             BONNIE WATSON COLEMAN, New Jersey145JOHN H. RUTHERFORD, Florida             NORMA J. TORRES, California146BEN CLINE, Virginia                     ED CASE, Hawaii147GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania         ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York148ASHLEY HINSON, Iowa                     JOSH HARDER, California149TONY GONZALES, Texas                    LAUREN UNDERWOOD, Illinois150JULIA LETLOW, Louisiana                 SUSIE LEE, Nevada151MICHAEL CLOUD, Texas                    JOSEPH D. MORELLE, New York152MICHAEL GUEST, Mississippi              MIKE LEVIN, California153RYAN K. ZINKE, Montana                  MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania154ANDREW S. CLYDE, Georgia                VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas155STEPHANIE I. BICE, Oklahoma             FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana156SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida                 MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ,157JAKE ELLZEY, Texas                        Washington158JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona                 GLENN IVEY, Maryland159CHUCK EDWARDS, North Carolina160MARK ALFORD, Missouri161NICK LaLOTA, New York162DALE W. STRONG, Alabama163CELESTE MALOY, Utah164RILEY M. MOORE, West Virginia165166                Susan Ross, Chief Clerk and Staff Director167168                                   (II)169170             DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE APPROPRIATIONS FOR 2026171172                              ----------173174                                           Wednesday, May 14, 2025.175176          OVERSIGHT OF THE UNITED STATES NAVY AND MARINE CORPS177178                               WITNESSES179180ADMIRAL JAMES W. KILBY, ACTING CHIEF OF NAVAL OPERATIONS, UNITED STATES181  NAVY182THE HONORABLE JOHN PHELAN, SECRETARY, UNITED STATES NAVY183GENERAL ERIC M. SMITH, COMMANDANT, UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS184185                 Opening Statement of Chairman Calvert186187    Mr. Calvert. Good afternoon. The subcommittee will come to188order.189    Today, the subcommittee will receive testimony from the190Honorable John Phelan, Secretary of the Navy; Admiral James191Kilby, Acting Chief of Naval Operations; and General Eric192Smith, the Commandant of the United States Marine Corps.193    Mr. Secretary, congratulations on your appointment. We have194already had several productive engagements, and I look forward195to continuing to work with you.196    Admiral Kilby, General Smith, thank you for joining us197today. We greatly appreciate your service.198    Today, we meet at a time of increasing global instability.199The Navy and Marine Corps are under extraordinary operational200demand, responding to threats across every domain.201    For the past 19 months, Naval forces have engaged in daily202combat operations in the Red Sea to protect international203shipping from Iranian-backed Houthi attacks. These actions204underscore the critical role our fleet plays in maintaining205freedom of navigation and the security of global commerce.206    At the same time, we face a rising near-peer challenge in207the Indo-Pacific. China continues to build the world's largest208Navy, surpassing the U.S. Navy in both ship count and209shipbuilding capability. China is on pace to surpass the United210States Navy in firepower in the coming years. Already today,211the Chinese far outnumber us in hypersonic weapons.212    In any potential conflict with China, the Navy will be the213linchpin of our ability to project power across the vast Indo-214Pacific region. The sheer scale of that theater demands a215capable and ready fleet, and I remain deeply concerned that we216are not building or sustaining our Naval forces at the pace217required to meet that challenge.218    Years of delay, cost overruns, and workforce challenges219have slowed production across critical shipbuilding programs,220including the Virginia- and Columbia-class submarines, Ford-221class aircraft carriers, and the Constellation-class frigates.222At the same time, the demand for capable, survivable platforms223is only increasing.224    Delays in construction of the lead Columbia-class submarine225presents a significant risk to strategic deterrence. I226understand that the delivery schedule has continued to slip227since the 45-day shipbuilding review that was completed last228spring, and the Columbia program is now looking at an 18- to22924-month delay in delivering the lead ship. How has this230happened to the Navy's priority program?231    Further, I fear the delays in the Virginia-class program232will only be compounded by delays in Columbia-class submarine233construction. The Virginia-class program continues to hover at234the construction cadence of 1.2 submarines a year versus the235necessary cadence of two per year.236    Congress has invested significantly in the submarine237industrial base. I want to know when these investments will238prove out. While my optimism is waning, I am hopeful that the239recent award of funding for wage and productivity enhancements240at the prime shipyards will help turn the tide.241    Ship maintenance and repair is another significant problem.242Too many ships are stuck in yards too long, impacting readiness243and deployment schedules.244    The Navy continues to face serious challenges in sustaining245fleet readiness due to persistent maintenance delays across246both public and private shipyards. A shortage of skilled labor,247aging infrastructure, and inconsistent planning are undermining248our ability to execute timely maintenance availabilities.249    The problem carries operational consequences that are250immediate and strategic. Delays ripple through deployment251schedules, degrade crew morale, strain already-overtasked252platforms. These readiness shortfalls directly impact the Navy253and the Marine Corps's ability to respond to global crises and254surge forces where needed. Without decisive improvements in255maintenance execution, we risk building a fleet on paper that256cannot meet operational demands in practice.257    This brings me to the Navy's requirement around amphibious258warfare ships. While the Navy is required to maintain a fleet259of at least 31 amphibs, the current state of the fleet raises260serious doubts about whether that requirement is being met in261an operationally credible way. Aging hulls, maintenance delays,262and lack of sustained investment have eroded the operational263availability of our amphibious fleet, putting real pressure on264the Marine Corps's ability to train, deploy, and respond265globally.266    Amphibious ships are not operational assets; they are267central to our ability to project power, reassure our allies,268and deter adversaries. The committee expects a plan not just to269meet the letter of the law but to ensure that the amphibious270fleet is truly capable and ready.271    We must get shipbuilding back on track and strengthen the272industrial base that supports it. That includes looking to273expand international cooperation, particularly with close274partners like Japan and South Korea, who are developing275advanced naval technologies and regional shipbuilding expertise276that may present a collaborative opportunity. We to need to277create solutions to increase throughput, expand capacity, and278leverage private-sector partnerships where possible.279    Now, I have questioned the Navy's future investment in280aircraft carriers, and I think we have seen a valuable281discussion as a result. We shouldn't be afraid to have these282debates. But I want to be clear today that aircraft carriers283serve a critical role in power projection and will most284certainly continue to provide the joint force with285extraordinary strike warfare and unrivaled air superiority as286we enter the Davidson window and beyond.287    That said, we cannot effectively operate carriers without288aircraft. I am alarmed by the downward trend in Navy's289procurement in strike fighter aircraft over the last several290years. Today, the Navy faces a growing shortfall in strike291fighter aircraft as our carriers sustain a grueling and intense292operating tempo in the Red Sea and around the globe.293    Admiral Paparo, the Indo-Pacific Commander, recently294testified that China is outproducing the U.S. in advanced295fighters and is now positioned for the first time to surpass296the United States in air superiority in the Pacific.297    I will not parse my words here: We need sixth-generation298fighters. The U.S. Navy needs sixth-generation fighters. I am299concerned that any hesitancy on our part to proceed with the300planned procurement of the sixth-gen fighters for the Navy will301leave us dangerously outmatched in a China fight. We cannot302wait.303    Further, we cannot expect to grow the defense industrial304base by undermining it. Aviation programs that rely on highly305specialized supply chains and skilled labor cannot be turned on306and off like a switch. If we continue sending mixed signals307through delayed buys, program instability, or shifting308requirements, we risk hollowing out the very industrial base we309need for future readiness. We must treat this sector as a310strategic asset, not as an afterthought.311    Over the past year, the Navy has operated under intense and312sustained combat conditions in the Red Sea, the most active313maritime conflict zone in a generation. Daily missile and drone314engagements against Iranian-backed Houthi forces have turned315theoretical warfighting concepts into real-life execution under316fire. These operations are yielding invaluable insights into317missile defense, unmanned system integration, and command and318control in a high-threat environment.319    But this persistent operational tempo comes at a cost.320Ships and crews are being pushed hard, deployments are being321extended, and readiness for other global contingencies is being322strained. The Navy must balance the urgency of today's fight323with the imperative to reset, repair, and prepare for324tomorrow's challenges. We look forward to hearing how this325experience is informing tactical development, force posture,326and long-term fleet health.327    The conflict in Ukraine continues to demonstrate how low-328cost, autonomous systems, especially drones, can deliver329outsized battlefield effect against far more expensive330platforms. These conflicts are reshaping our understanding of331warfare, where speed, scale, and adaptability often outweigh332traditional measures of strength.333    Our ability to capitalize on these emerging technologies334will depend on how effectively we partner with the private335sector. Many of the tools we need--artificial intelligence,336autonomy, and edge computing--are being developed outside the337traditional defense environment.338    To keep pace with the rapidly evolving threat environment,339the Navy must do more than experiment; it must reduce barriers340to entry for commercial innovation and field successful341concepts quickly and at scale. I look forward to continuing to342partner with you on supporting and promoting innovation.343    Over the last several years, the Marine Corps has undergone344a significant transformation. This shift to a lighter, more345agile, and distributed force capable of operating inside346contested maritime spaces is both bold and necessary.347    As the Marine Corps pursues new capabilities to support348force design, it is essential that its acquisition programs are349grounded in rigorous analysis and supported by fulsome,350validated requirements to ensure systems are relevant,351sustainable, and delivered on time.352    The future of the Marine Corps depends on getting this353right, and we are committed to providing the resources and the354oversight to make that happen.355    Before we hear from our witnesses, I would like to356recognize the distinguished ranking member, Ms. McCollum, for357any opening comments.358    Thank you.359360                    Opening Remarks of Ms. McCollum361362    Ms. McCollum. Thank you, Mr. Chair.363    Mr. Secretary, Admiral Kilby, this is your first time364appearing before the committee. Welcome. I look forward to365working with both of you.366    General Smith, it is a pleasure to see you again, and367congratulations on a second-year clean audit. Go, Marines. The368Marine Corps continues to be the premier example to the rest of369the services for responsible budgeting, and I thank you and my370constituents thank you for that.371    As I said in our hearings last week, the fiscal year 2026372budget process is off to a very rough start. We just have over3734 months left until the end of 2025. To date, only the skinny374budget for the next year has been released, and there are375rumors that the full budget may not be released until June.376    And that is why we have not been able to discuss with any377of the services the budget priorities in detail. And that is378going to be true for this hearing, unfortunately, as well. It379is disappointing, because the Department of the Navy programs380face long delays and other setbacks, and our committee must381have a better understanding of your fiscal year 2026382priorities.383    I hope that each of you will reach out to the chair,384myself, and to all the members of this committee as soon as385details are released.386    Mr. Secretary, I continue to be concerned about the ability387of the Navy and the industry to provide ships and submarines we388purchase on time, on budget. And this is something the chair389and I, as you heard from his statement, totally agree on.390    This has been a challenge for several years, and now the391responsibility has fallen to you. We cannot continue to pay for392vessels that cost one amount at the start of construction and393end up costing dramatically more in later years.394    I appreciate addressing both the delays and the395reinvigorating of the maritime industrial base. That was a396focus during your Senate confirmation hearings. You spoke397directly to this, and I appreciate that. So I look forward to398working with you to ensure that the industry and the government399can find solutions to get back on track.400    I was also pleased to hear during your confirmation401hearings that you prioritize the health and safety of our402sailors and marines under your watch. Extended deployments403cannot only hurt the sailors or the marine but can also have404the possibility of harming their families.405    Part of the reason for these extended deployments are the406delays at the maintenance facility yards in getting our subs407and our service vessels in and out of the water. And that, too,408needs to be addressed.409    In last week's hearing with the Army, we discussed the410Army's transformative innovative--excuse me, I have a catch in411my throat--we discussed the Army's Transformation Initiative.412Part of the initiative is the Army's decision to end the Joint413Light Tactical Vehicle program.414    I have to say, I was dismayed when the Army made this415decision and did not consult with the Marines. That is beyond416disappointing. ``Joint'' means ``joint.'' That is what the417``J'' stands for. Joint decisions should be informed together418as part of joint programs if they need to change.419    So I look forward to working with you, General Smith, in420determining the next steps for this vehicle, which your marines421rely upon.422    And, finally, as I said when the Air Force and the Army423were before us, I am alarmed at the number and the manner in424which the Department has decided to implement cuts of civilian425personnel.426    Public shipyards are of personal concern to me. Losing427shipyard workers with experience and failing to replace them428will only lengthen the problems we are now seeing at these429shipyards. Delays will worsen, and maintenance schedules will430not be executed on time.431    So, Mr. Secretary, I would like to hear from you how you432will address these personnel cuts in relationship to the public433yards.434    These cuts will also affect the execution of contracts and435other vital paperwork. We are already living with the impacts436of what happens when civilians take a buyout and stop working437on contracts. The contract isn't signed, the mission doesn't438get done, and the program falls behind, and it costs the439taxpayers more money.440    I am also concerned that these cuts will shift441responsibility of completing these tasks to the same military442personnel that you would like to see most at work at sea or on443the training field.444    So, once again, I welcome you all to the committee, and I445look toward to hearing your testimony.446    Thank you for the courtesy, Mr. Chair. I yield back.447    Mr. Calvert. Thank you.448    I would now like to turn to the chairman of the full449committee, my good friend, Chairman Tom Cole.450451                    Opening Remarks of Chairman Cole452453    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Chairman Calvert and454Ranking Member McCollum.455    It is always a pleasure to be joined by the ranking member456of the full committee, my good friend from Connecticut, Ms.457DeLauro.458    And let me go off my script for a second and just say, I459appreciate Ranking Member McCollum's remarks about the budget,460because she is spot-on. We absolutely need it sooner. That is461not your fault. I am not directing that at any of the three of462you. But this is one where OMB needs to pick up the pace if we463are going to have any chance of getting our work done on time.464    So thank you, my good friend from Minnesota, for pointing465that out.466    I want to welcome all three of you.467    Mr. Secretary, delighted to have you confirmed and here468with us for the first time.469    Admiral Kilby, General Smith, again, it is an honor to have470both of you with us today.471    I want to extend my gratitude to you and to your472commendable and continuing service to our country and to the473men and women in uniform that you collectively lead.474    Today, our Navy's mission has never been more consequential475or expansive. From the contested waters of the Indo-Pacific to476the turbulent Red Sea, our Navy and Marine Corps are on the477front lines of deterring aggression, projecting power, and478upholding the rules-based international order.479    We are all deeply grateful for the bravery and480professionalism shown by our sailors and marines, especially481those operating today in harm's way in the Middle East. The482Navy's persistent operations in the Red Sea under extremely483dangerous and demanding conditions have prevented countless484attacks on international shipping and ensured the continued485flow of commerce.486    These missions have not come without cost, and they are a487stark reminder that our Naval forces must be ready to respond488decisively across the full spectrum of conflict.489    While we await the full details of the White House budget490request for the Department of Defense, this hearing will serve491as an opportunity to address a range of issues that face the492Navy and the Marine Corps.493    One area of particular concern is the state of our494shipbuilding enterprise. We continue to see troubling delays in495the delivery of key platforms, including the Columbia-class496ballistic missile submarine, the Constellation-class frigate,497and the Virginia-class attack submarines. These delays not only498impact operational readiness but they also create a growing499strategic risk at a time when China is expanding its fleet at500an unprecedented pace.501    This is not a new concern. The Trump administration rightly502recognized the importance of recapitalizing our fleet, with its503executive order aimed at revitalizing American shipbuilding to504better position the force to achieve a 381-ship Navy. While505that goal remains aspirational, it should continue to guide our506efforts as we consider how to strengthen our industrial base507capacity, streamline procurement timelines, and demand greater508accountability in program execution.509    And we will also want to hear more about the Navy's510evolving posture in the Indo-Pacific, particularly in light of511China's coercive actions near Taiwan, in the South China Sea,512and beyond. Maintaining a forward, flexible presence in the513region is essential to deterring conflict and reassuring our514allies and partners.515    The growth of unmanned systems, which my friend Chairman516Calvert referred to, on the surface, under sea, and in the air517is another area of intense interest. The Department has made518strides in experimentation and prototyping, but the path toward519large-scale integration remains unclear. We will want to know520how unmanned platforms are being incorporated into the fleet,521what operational value they are expected to provide, and on522what schedule they will be delivered.523    Turning to the Marine Corps, we appreciate the continued524implementation of Force Design 2030, which reflects a bold and525forward-looking approach to modernizing the Corps for526distributed operations in contested environments. We look527forward to hearing from General Smith about how Force Design is528progressing, what challenges remain, and how the Corps is529adapting to lessons learned from the exercises and real-world530operations.531    Strategic deterrence is also a key focus of this hearing.532In addition to its role as the steward of the sea-based leg of533the nuclear triad, the Navy is also responsible for maintaining534the TACAMO mission, our survivable airborne communications link535between national leadership and nuclear forces.536    As the Navy moves forward with the recapitalization of this537critical capability through the E-XX aircraft program, it is538essential that the Department stay on track and avoid the cost539and schedule issues that have plagued other major acquisitions.540    We are also aware of recent discussions about potentially541transferring elements of the TACAMO mission to the Air Force.542This subcommittee will want to understand the rationale behind543such a move, its impact on operational effectiveness, and what544it could mean for program stability going forward.545    Of course, none of these platforms, strategies, or546technologies matter without the people who bring them to life.547Recruiting and retention remain pressing challenges across the548force, although I know certain progress has been made in recent549months. Both the Navy and Marine Corps have had to grapple with550difficult operational tempos, quality-of-life issues, and a551competitive labor market. We will continue to support efforts552to improve housing, family support programs, and the healthcare553of our servicemembers.554    I want to close by thanking each of you again for being555here and for your service. I also want to thank the dedicated556men and women of your branches, uniformed and civilian alike,557who continue to operate in every corner of the world on behalf558of the American people.559    We look forward to your testimony and a frank discussion560about the challenges you face and the resources you need to561meet them.562    Again, thank you for being here today.563    And, with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.564    Mr. Calvert. I thank the chairman.565    And I would now like to turn to the ranking member of the566Appropriations Committee, Ms. DeLauro, for any opening567comments.568569                     Opening Remarks of Ms. DeLauro570571    Ms. DeLauro. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I thank you572and Ranking Member McCollum and Chairman Cole for holding this573hearing on the plans for the Department of the Navy in the574coming year.575    And thank you to the witnesses--Secretary Phelan, General576Smith, and Admiral Kilby--for your appearing before us today577and for your dedicated service to our Nation. You keep our578Nation safe. You keep our sailors and marines safe. You ensure579that our allies are supported wherever democracy and freedom580are threatened around the world.581    Today, I look forward to learning about what the Navy is582doing to get our shipbuilding back on track, especially with583regard to submarines. It is critical for our national security584that the Navy returns to a regular production of two Virginia-585class submarines per year and that the Columbia-class gets as586close to schedule as possible.587    We need to understand how the administration plans to work588with Congress to ensure that that happens. Our ability to deter589and respond to threats around the globe is counting on it.590    I also am eager to hear more about how the Marine Corps591will utilize the CH-53K program, how it will evolve into the592future. We must always work to ensure our servicemembers have593the best possible equipment to defend our Nation, and American-594made Sikorsky helicopters are the best in the world. I want to595ensure the CH-53 platform continues to serve as the backbone of596the Marine Corps's heavy-lift fleet.597    Additionally, I want to hear about what we are doing to598modernize the Navy's workforce. I am very concerned to hear599that the Department of the Navy will be losing about 16,000600civilian workers, including workers at our public shipyards.601The Navy must work with the Congress and with our industry602partners to ensure that we have a highly trained workforce that603is ready to get the job done and respond to constantly evolving604threats.605    And we all know that when you destroy the infrastructure606and hollow out the agencies, we cannot bring that back with how607quickly we would need to do that. So we should not be in the608business of destroying our infrastructure.609    Also pertaining to the workforce, it is deeply regrettable610that the administration is choosing to inject culture-war611debates into the Department of Defense funding process. And I612am concerned with how that may hurt further recruitment613efforts, especially among women.614    We must do all that we can to ensure that any American who615wants to bravely serve in the United States Armed Forces,616defend our Nation, feels that they belong and that they are not617going to be drawn into political warfare while confronting618legitimate threats to freedom, to democracy, and our national619security.620    I thank you again, all of you, for being here today. I look621forward to listening to you.622    And I yield back.623    Mr. Chairman, I am going to dash to Homeland Security for a624portion of that. Will be back for questions.625    Mr. Calvert. I look forward to it.626    Ms. DeLauro. Thank you very much for your indulgence.627Appreciate it. Thank you.628    Mr. Calvert. Gentlemen, your full written testimony will be629placed in the record. Please give a brief summary of your630statements.631    Secretary Phelan, the floor is yours.632633                 Summary Statement of Secretary Phelan634635    Secretary Phelan. Chairman Calvert, Ranking Member636McCollum, and distinguished members of the committee, I am637honored to appear before you alongside General Smith and638Admiral Kilby to discuss the posture of the Department of the639Navy.640    I am grateful to President Trump for the trust he has641placed in me to lead the nearly 1 million sailors, marines, and642civilians who make up our maritime force.643    My North Star, or number-one priority, as Secretary is the644readiness of our sailors and marines. I will leave this645Department with three focus areas that will guide our Navy and646Marine Corps: strengthen shipbuilding and the maritime647industrial base; foster an adaptable, accountable, and648innovative warfighter culture; improve the health, welfare, and649training of our people.650    In my first 30 days as SECNAV, I have visited the Indo-651Pacific, the southern border, the Gulf of America, several of652our installations, and eight public and private shipyards to653see our operations and challenges firsthand. I look forward to654sharing my observations with you today.655    The United States commands the most powerful maritime force656in the world, but that dominance is under threat. China657continues to expand its fleet, build more advanced submarines,658and operate more provocatively and aggressively in contested659waters.660    In the Red Sea, our warfighters are leading Operation661Prosperity Guardian, defending freedom of navigation. They are662doing an excellent job. At CENTCOM headquarters, I have663witnessed these operations and saw firsthand the664professionalism and expertise of our forces operating in this665area.666    Closer to home, our maritime forces are working with667Federal agencies to disrupt drug and human trafficking, helping668to further secure our borders. On my second day in office, I669visited the USS Gravely in the Gulf of America and flew670surveillance missions with Patrol Squadron 26.671    While our forces remain steady, rebuilding our hollowed-out672maritime industrial base is a national-security imperative, as673outlined in the ``Restoring America's Maritime Dominance674Executive Order'' signed by President Trump on April 9th.675    Over the past month, I visited those eight shipyards across676the Nation's East Coast and the Indo-Pacific. I spoke directly677with shipyard leaders and the hardworking tradesmen essential678to our maritime operations. I now have a clear picture of where679our shipbuilding dollars have been going and am developing a680plan to fix what is broken.681    As the Nation's first line of defense, the Navy and Marine682Corps play an indispensable role in securing national interests683and protecting our way of life. However, to truly strengthen684our defense posture, we must first ensure that the Department685of the Navy is accountable to the American taxpayer.686Accountability is not just a regulatory requirement; it is the687bedrock upon which we will build a stronger, more efficient688Navy and Marine Corps.689    To instill an environment of adaptability in warfighting690culture, we must first demonstrate sound business practices and691financial discipline. Under my leadership, the Department of692the Navy will achieve a clean audit, following the example set693by the Marine Corps, which has completed two consecutive694unmodified audits.695    We will leverage technology to drive smarter decision-696making, adopting lean management practices to eliminate697unnecessary overhead, and building relationships with private698industry to access cutting-edge solutions.699    As we confront the mounting challenges of shipbuilding and700warfighting readiness, it is clear that our greatest asset is701the extraordinary men and women who serve: our sailors and702marines. We will continue to invest in recruiting, training,703and retaining the highest-caliber personnel. We will prioritize704quality-of-life and quality-of-service initiatives to ensure705that our sailors, marines, and their families have the706resources available to succeed.707    During my travels, I have visited a number of barracks, and708although our new barracks are good, I was appalled by the709condition of some of our older barracks. I will hold leadership710and industry accountable until we deliver the standard of711living our servicemembers deserve.712    As former President and Assistant Secretary of the Navy713Theodore Roosevelt once told Congress, ``A good Navy is not a714provocation to war. It is the surest guarantee of peace.'' That715guarantee begins with hard work, and I am committed to putting716in the effort our warfighters deserve, while working alongside717this committee to build and maintain a force strong enough to718deter conflict and preserve peace.719    I am honored to serve the Nation and guide the world's720greatest maritime force through these uncharted waters.721    Thank you for your support, and I look forward to your722questions.723    [The information follows:]724725    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]726727    Mr. Calvert. Thank you, Mr. Secretary.728    I now recognize Admiral Kilby for your remarks.729730                   Summary Statement of Admiral Kilby731732    Admiral Kilby. Chairman Calvert, Ranking Member McCollum,733Chairman Cole, subcommittee members, thank you for the734opportunity to testify on the priorities of the United States735Navy.736    Your Navy provides the Nation with sea power and sea737control needed to preserve our way of life and ensure our738security and prosperity. Your oversight and funding ensure we739are ready when the Nation calls.740    I am pleased to testify alongside Secretary Phelan, who741brings the needed and unique skill set and experience to help742us accelerate the work of our Navy, and alongside my partner743General Smith, the Commandant of the Marine Corps.744    In the past year, our sailors have defeated hundreds of745drones and missiles and executed dozens of offensive strikes in746the Red Sea and the Eastern Mediterranean. They have747strengthened alliances and deterred Chinese aggression in the748Western Pacific. They have supported operations on the southern749border, and they have maintained an unbroken strategic750deterrent with our ballistic missile defense submarines.751    In short, our Navy, integrated with the joint force,752remains postured and ready to fight and win.753    We remain committed to a strong, global Navy, one that is754prepared to defend our homeland, deter our adversaries, and755prevail in war. We are laser-focused on China as our most756consequential opponent, while strengthening defense of the757homeland. We prioritize operations, training, and readiness758accounts to ensure our Naval forces remain ready, resilient,759and agile to execute national tasking.760    The Navy and Marine Corps preserves peace through strength761through investments in our strategic deterrence, our defense762industrial base, and our installations via initiatives like the763Shipyard Infrastructure Optimization Program.764    Most importantly, we are continuing the strong commitment765to our people--our sailors, our Navy families, and our766civilians--through pay raises, investments in quality-of-767service initiatives and unaccompanied housing and childcare.768    But we are facing some challenges.769    First, the Navy has 23,200 gaps at sea. Thanks to process770improvements and targeted investments, we are on plan to reduce771that number significantly by the close of fiscal year 2026.772    We are committed to attracting and developing Americans who773can innovate to solve hard problems and dominate in combat. The774Navy contracted over 40,000 sailors last year, the most since7752003, and we are currently on pace to exceed our recruiting776goal for fiscal year 2025.777    Second, our ordnance expenditures in the Red Sea have778highlighted the strain on our munitions industrial base. The779Navy is working with both our traditional primes and new780entrants to close this gap, developing kinetic and non-kinetic781weapons at speed and at scale.782    And, third, our platforms are not as ready as they need to783be. We set an ambitious goal to make 80 percent of our ships,784submarines, and aircraft combat-surge-ready by January 1, 2027.785To do that, we are reducing maintenance delays, we are786improving manning, training, modernization, and sustainment.787    In all of these efforts, consistent and predictable funding788is foundational. We appreciate the continued support of this789committee.790    In closing, I am proud of our Navy accomplishments in the791last year, and I am excited about the growing consensus that is792powering our maritime rejuvenation. The whole-of-government and793whole-of-Nation effort is essential to our security and794prosperity.795    We have work to do to ensure that we remain the world's796most premier maritime force for another 250 years. Your797leadership and support are critical in achieving this798imperative.799    On behalf of our sailors, civilians, and families around800the world, I thank you.801    I look forward to your questions.802    [The information follows:]803804    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]805806    Mr. Calvert. Thank you, Admiral.807    I now recognize General Smith for your remarks.808809                   Summary Statement of General Smith810811    General Smith. Good afternoon. Chairman Calvert, Ranking812Member McCollum, Chair Cole, Ranking Member DeLauro, ladies and813gentlemen, it is an honor to appear before you today alongside814Secretary Phelan and Admiral Kilby, my shipmate. I am here for815you on behalf of your Marine Corps, and I look forward to816answering your questions.817    First, I would like to start by sharing the Marine Corps's818top three priorities.819    First, restoring a 3.0 Amphibious Ready Group and Marine820Expeditionary inner presence. This is the Marine Corps's North821Star. That is one Amphibious Ready Group constantly deployed822off the East Coast, one constantly deployed off the West Coast,823and one Amphibious Ready Group episodically deployed out of the824FDNF, the Forward Deployed Naval Force, in Japan.825    The Amphibious Ready Group with a Marine Expeditionary Unit826embarked is the most versatile tool in our Nation's arsenal. It827is the Swiss Army knife of the joint force. And we are working828closely with our Navy partners to maximize this capability.829    Our second priority is accelerating Force Design. Force830Design is our righteous journey to adapt to the changing831character of war. The nature of war remains the same, but the832character changes.833    We are in the implementation phase. We are fielding new834capabilities time now and reshaping formations across the835force, from our Marine Expeditionary Units and Marine Littoral836Regiments to our Marine Expeditionary Forces.837    And, finally, improving quality of life. Every marine838deserves a clean, safe place to lay their head at night. They839don't ask for much, but they do ask for that. Barracks 2030 is840how we are getting after this. It is the most consequential841housing investment in Marine Corps history.842    And quality of life goes beyond our barracks. We are also843investing in the well-being of marine families, because844retaining our marines means supporting those who stand by them.845We say, ``You recruit the marine, but you retain the family.''846    I will close with this. Your marines remain the most ready847when the Nation is least ready. It is who we are, it is our848foundation: a forward-postured force, trained for combat, and849built to deliver flexible, lethal options anywhere, anytime.850    Thank you again for your trust and support, and I look851forward to your questions.852    [The information follows:]853854    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]855856                      DELAYS IN SUBMARINE PROGRAMS857858    Mr. Calvert. Thank you, General.859    I will first recognize myself for 5 minutes before we get860into questions for both sides.861    Obviously, Mr. Secretary, the committee is continually862concerned about the reported 18- to 24-month delay in the863Columbia-class submarine program.864    As you know, the retirement timeline for the Ohio-class865boats is apparently, you know, unless I am corrected on this,866non-negotiable due to the aging hulls, which means any further867delay in Columbia directly threatens our ability to meet868STRATCOM's minimum deterrence requirement. As you well know,869the significant part of our nuclear deterrent is carried on the870Columbia--well, will be carried on the Columbia program.871    Secretary Phelan--and maybe, Admiral Kilby, you may want to872come into this too--you can walk us through the primary drivers873behind the additional 18- to 24-month delay of the Columbia-874class submarine program.875    And beyond the issues we have already seen, whether supply-876chain disruptions, workforce shortages, or integration877challenges, what risks remain most concerning to you as we look878ahead?879    Secretary Phelan. Thank you for the question. I know this880is an important issue to you and a top priority for myself and881Admiral Kilby as well.882    I think it is a combination of a first-of-class ship, still883an inexperienced workforce. It is supply-chain issues. It is884also a lack of modernization in some of the plants. And I885think, honestly, it is just sitting and going and talking to886the workers on ways of improving workflow.887    And so these are things that--you know, I have met with the888CEOs of General Dynamics and Huntington Ingalls to talk about889this and go through it. It was very interesting in some of890their assessments of what they did not perceive to be as891problems, where, when I went and sat down with the workers, I892got completely the opposite.893    So let me just give you a couple of examples which might894help you understand in ways we think we can shift the schedule895left.896    So, in Japan, I went to JMU. They get the productivity out897of one 8-hour shift that we get out of three shifts. I believe898that is for two reasons.899    One, their average worker is 50 years old and he is a900career. They spend time there, they have been in that shipyard901a very long time.902    Two, when I spoke to the welders in Japan, they spend zero903time on paperwork. Our welders spend between 30 and 40 percent904of their time filling out paperwork to match designs, et905cetera. That is a problem. The training when they come from906training and get actually on site is completely different.907    So these are things that they need to work on. And I have908spoken to General Dynamics about it. We are working on a couple909of different other ideas as well. There were a couple things I910saw at Bath Iron Works, to be honest, that were excellent. And911there were some things being implemented at Portsmouth that912were really good that we need to start to integrate and do.913    This is a very big concern. I do think we can get the914calendar shifted left, but it is going to take a lot of hard915work and a lot of effort. And it is my number-one priority916right now, given the strategic importance of this.917    Mr. Calvert. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, for that.918    Admiral, if you want to add anything to that?919    Admiral Kilby. I think the Secretary covered it. I do have920the same concerns he does.921    I have the same observations about maturity of workforce922and skilled labor. So, at our public yards and our private923yards, there has been a diminished--a loss of that experience,924so supervisors don't have the same experience they used to.925That is an important thing for us to correct.926    Additionally, we are looking at extending those hulls in927our Ohio-class that can make sure we don't have a gap in928strategic deterrence. The first one is USS Alaska, which we929will extend through a PIRA in 2029, and there are four930additional hulls.931    So I think that is an insurance policy to make sure that we932are still the most survivable leg of the nuclear triad, sir.933    Mr. Calvert. Thank you for that.934    It is interesting to note what is going on in Japan and935South Korea, where they have a significant amount of the936world's shipbuilding capability. You know, we have dropped now937to, what, 3 percent of shipbuilding worldwide. The Chinese are,938what, 50 percent of ship construction? The Japanese and the939Koreans are about 35, 40 percent combined, and then the rest of940the world.941    And so it is disappointing that we have gotten ourselves in942this situation. So we have a lot of work ahead of us, as you943mentioned, Mr. Secretary, to straighten this out.944    Ms. McCollum, you wanted me to recognize----945    Ms. McCollum. Mr. Cuellar.946    Mr. Calvert [continuing]. Mr. Cuellar.947    Mr. Cuellar, you are recognized.948949                            BORDER SECURITY950951    Mr. Cuellar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking. Thank952you. We have to go to the same place, talk to the Coast Guard.953    But just, first of all, Mr. Secretary, Admiral, and--I954think we have got a fellow Texan--General, thank you for the955service that you have provided.956    A couple things.957    One, the military does bring some skills, some assets that958the Department of Homeland doesn't do. So we would like if you959can follow up on that and what you all bring to it. It is not960only the southern border but, of course, we have got the coast,961as you know. Number one.962    Number two, you know, the law already calls for operational963and regulatory efficiency reviews. The law already calls for964contracting and procurement standards. The law already calls965for quarterly performance updates. The law already requires966development and submissions of updated performance measures.967    I would like to just focus on the contracting and968procurement standard, as it has been brought up by both the969chairman and the ranking member--is, why can we not do things970on budget and on time?971    I mean, if the Chinese can do it, the Japanese can do it,972and other folks can do it--you know, we always come up with,973``Well, we have got workforce development and all of that,''974but why can--you know, there are already penalties there for--975monetary penalties, suspension of work, and other things under976the law. You know, we keep coming up with excuses, but you have977got other countries that keep doing this.978    On budget and on time are the two factors.979    Finally, the last thing. And you can follow up on this980later on. In my San Antonio area, as you know, there has been981different suspension of contracts. There is one in particular982that had to do with some data, a data contract that deals with983servicemembers' records, data for promotion boards and other984things. Again, this contract was--you know, we think it was985necessary, and it was performing, but then you all cut it.986    I don't want you to take up the time now, but have somebody987follow up on that.988    But I would like to go and, you know, if you can mention a989little bit on border security, what you bring in that Homeland990doesn't have; but, more importantly, on budget and on time and991why other countries can do it and we can't.992    Admiral Kilby. Why don't we start with the border piece,993and then we can go to another question.994    So, from the Navy's perspective, 30 intelligence995specialists on the border helping with the southern border, 58996P-8 sorties for intelligence and surveillance, and now 3 ships:997Minneapolis-Saint Paul is the littoral combat ship, as well as998two destroyers. And they relieved two destroyers.999    So the presence for counter-drug-flow, counter-immigration,1000there is a maritime component to that that the Navy is1001performing and has performed for a long time. You know, the1002first time I got underway on a ship, in 1987, we had a law1003enforcement detachment. And that is something the Coast Guard1004and the Navy are really good at doing together to extend the1005reach of the Coast Guard.1006    General Smith. Sir, in terms of the Marines, our First1007Combat Engineer Battalion, based out of Camp Pendleton,1008California, is operating on the southern border.1009    They are doing engineer tasks. They are constructing1010concertina wire. They are building obstacles. They are doing1011what they do. So they are continuing to get the training that1012they would normally get at Camp Pendleton; they are just1013getting it on the southern border.1014    But that is our contribution, is our First Combat Engineer1015Battalion.1016    Mr. Cuellar. On budget and on time?1017    Secretary Phelan. Just real quick just on the border as1018well. I mean, I think the Navy, since its inception, has been a1019homeland defense organization. They work with the Coast Guard.1020They do ballistic missile defense. And keeping sea lanes and1021trade lanes open has been part of their job since inception. So1022I think it is a very important aspect to what they do.1023    In terms of on time, on budget, I think it is a number of1024different things.1025    One, as I mentioned in my opening statement, the industrial1026base has been hollowed out. We have lost a lot of manufacturing1027and our ability to manufacture. We have had prior conflicts1028where we have spent a lot of money, and the bills for deferred1029infrastructure spend, whether that is piers, docks, are now1030coming due.1031    And it has been going on for a while. And so these are not1032new problems. I mean, I have looked back at testimony 20 years;1033I keep hearing the same things. I am trying to figure out why1034it hasn't been fixed, to be perfectly honest.1035    But I will tell you, I think it is a combination of1036bureaucracy--so, just to give you an example, in the Navy, in1037acquisitions alone, we have 56,000 people in our acquisitions1038department. Now, we did last year 217,000 contracts. That is 341039contracts per person. That is two contracts a month. Something1040is off. You know, I keep trying to understand, what are all1041these people doing?1042    And these are complicated contracts, but I will also be1043honest, when I look at our contracting, it is poor. We don't1044control our IP. We can't repair stuff. We don't have very good1045penalties built in for lack of performance.1046    These are all things we are going to really try to change.1047And I kind of called it in my confirmation hearing ``shared1048risk.'' I think it is great for the private sector to make1049money, and they should, but they should be paid according to1050the risk that they take. And that is not going on right now,1051and we need to fix that.1052    So it is not an easy solution, but it has our focus, and we1053are going to get it fixed. It will take time. We will be very1054transparent with all of you and walk you through and tell you1055the good, the bad, and the ugly and try to get it sorted.1056    Mr. Cuellar. Thank you.1057    Mr. Calvert. Thank you.1058    Chairman Cole.10591060                             TACAMO MISSION10611062    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.1063    I want to go back to something I mentioned in my opening1064statement, Secretary Phelan. Could you tell us whether or not1065we are looking at structuring the TACAMO mission and whether or1066not we are looking at offloading some of those functions that1067it currently provides to the Air Force?1068    Secretary Phelan. Thank you for the question, Chairman. I1069am going to let Admiral Kilby answer that, but let me just give1070you my thoughts.1071    Look, the investments in both the E-6B and its replacement,1072the E-130, are critical to nuclear modernization. I am1073committed to improving that. It is a critical part.1074    And then I will let Admiral Kilby comment on your specific1075question.1076    Admiral Kilby. Yes, sir.1077    So, as Secretary Phelan said, the E-6, which you now know1078so much about, has served us well. We need to make sure that1079aircraft gets through its service life and is replaced by its1080replacement.1081    There is another mission assigned to that aircraft now, the1082ABNCP mission. And that is the mission that needs another1083platform or a home, because the EC-130 just does not have the1084room in it that the E-6 does to perform both those missions.1085    But, most important--and I agree with Secretary Phelan--we1086must stay on track for the TACAMO replacement program. We have1087gotten more than our money's worth out of the E-6s. We have had1088this empennage problem, and we repairing those aircraft to make1089sure they are safe to fly, they can provide continuity of NC3.1090    But I am committed to the TACAMO replacement program and1091staying on budget and on delivery for that so we can do what we1092do for the Nation.1093    The Chairman. And, again, just to not be redundant but to1094be specific, are we talking about any of that mission moving to1095the Air Force, or are we talking about keeping it within the1096Navy?1097    Admiral Kilby. That is a discussion still at the Department1098of Defense. The part I specifically talked about, though, was,1099it will not go into the EC-130 replacement, because there is1100just no room for the kit for that aircraft.1101    So there is a limitation to what the 130 can do. And it is1102a performance game for us, we think, in the execution of NC3.1103So we will have to figure out as a department, the Department1104of Defense, what happens to that initial mission. And it may1105not be an aircraft; it might be another means to provide that1106secure comps.1107    The Chairman. Well, I would ask you to keep us apprised of1108that. And I will tell you, since I have got a lot of E-6s based1109out of my district and E-3s that are all being retired from the1110Air Force where we are having to scramble to find replacements,1111I am not sure the Air Force would have the capacity to do some1112of the things you need to do. So, again, I would very much like1113to know when and if that decision is made.11141115                               MUNITIONS11161117    Let me ask you, too, quickly, if I may--and I would put1118this to all of you. And Chairman Calvert raised it. I am very1119concerned about where we are at in terms of munitions, in terms1120of what is available, what you need, what we would have if, God1121forbid, we were in, you know, a short-term conflict. It would1122be short-term, because we don't have enough munitions to1123sustain a long-term fight.1124    So where are we at in procurement, in stockpiling of the1125munitions, particularly precision-strike types of munitions1126that you think you would need in a conflict with a near-peer1127power?1128    Admiral Kilby. Sir, I will take that one just for the Navy.1129    We are investing in the munitions we need, particularly to1130be ready if we need to go to war with China. Those are1131precision-guided, long-range munitions like Tomahawk, Maritime1132Strike Tomahawk, LRASM, SM-6, SM-2, RGM, AIM-9X, AIM-120, and1133the heavyweight torpedo. So all those munitions we need to1134increase production on.1135    I am also of the mind that we need to look at other1136vendors. And they may not be able to produce the same exact1137specification, but they might be able to produce a missile that1138is effective, which is more effective than no missile. So I1139think we have to open our aperture a little bit.1140    But those munitions that I listed, we need to increase1141production. And we have done so with things like the SM-6,1142which used to have 125 rounds a year. We are ramping up to 3001143rounds a year. We have restarted our Mark 48 line. That is our1144premier torpedo. We stopped doing torpedoes in 1996 and now1145have just reconstituted that line and are going to deliver 10 a1146month, so that is 120 a year. That is a step in the right1147direction.1148    But we need to stop looking, like I have, at the minimum1149sustaining rate and look at what we need for protraction. I1150think it is foolish to think that we are going to be in a1151short, sharp war. If we go to war with China, this is going to1152be a big deal. And it is going to be bloody, and there are1153going to be casualties, and it is going to take time and1154munitions. So our stocks need to be full.1155    The Chairman. Well, again, I would ask you to keep us1156informed on that and what we can do to accelerate that process,1157because I think we are all very, very concerned.1158    And I am glad to hear you are looking at alternatives,1159because I think you are exactly right; I am not sure the1160capacity exists in the traditional munitions that we have to do1161it in a short-term and speedy fashion.11621163                           FORCE DESIGN 203011641165    Last question, if I can get to you quickly, General Smith.1166I was just curious of your assessment of where we are at on1167Force Design 2030. You know, how are things going? Are you on1168schedule?1169    General Smith. Sir, thanks for that question.1170    Sir, we are on schedule. I am committed to Force Design,1171balanced against our crisis-response and readiness missions.1172    We are investing in key capabilities, such as unmanned1173systems, long-range precision fires--which you addressed--air1174defenses, counter-small-UAS. We are enabling modernization1175while retaining our capability for competition and crisis1176response, which is our nom de guerre.1177    It preserves the capability of the Marine Expeditionary1178Unit. Based on combat operational employments, the COCOMs have1179asked us to accelerate some of our capabilities, such as the1180MQ-9, our big-wing drone. Pair that with MADIS, our Marine Air1181Defense Integrated System, and an MRIC, a Medium-Range1182Intercept Capability, and we are well on our way to realizing1183the value of Force Design as a stand-in force to enable us to1184deter the PRC from--I won't say ``breaking out,'' but--breaking1185out and, if they do, to punish them for it.1186    The Chairman. Thank you very much.1187    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.1188    Mr. Calvert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1189    I am happy to recognize the ranking member, Ms. McCollum.11901191                   SUBMARINE PRODUCTION AND SHIPYARDS11921193    Ms. McCollum. Thank you, Mr. Chair.1194    Mr. Secretary, you were very refreshing in your1195confirmation hearings with what--the learning curve you were1196going to take on. You have been on the job for less than 21197months, and here you are, without a full budget in front of us,1198us asking a lot of questions.1199    But I am going to--as a schoolteacher, I am going to just1200press one more time for an answer for the question.1201    We haven't had two-sub production, I have been told, since1202before COVID.1203    So you have been out talking to people, looking at the1204shipyards, looking at workforce. You are doing your due1205diligence. But we will start marking up a budget in June.1206    Secretary Phelan. Uh-huh.1207    Ms. McCollum. So do you have any idea of when maybe you can1208come before the committee and tell us when we can expect to get1209back to two subs a year?1210    Because the budget--I mean, what kind of conversations are1211happening at the Pentagon about how we get back on track? And1212are they giving you all the flexibility to put this priority1213number one to move forward?1214    The other problem we discussed is the backlog for1215maintenance in the shipyards. And you just mentioned, with the1216Admiral, too, now, what is happening with the hulls in the1217Ohio-class. That is something else you are going to be bringing1218into the shipyards, and there is already backlog there.1219    So I know you are putting all the pieces in the puzzle1220together. It has been 2 months. You are taking this1221extraordinarily seriously. I want to be fair and recognize1222that. But I have a job to do, too, along with these committee1223members.1224    Do you have any idea when you think you might be able to1225come back in front of the committee, within the next month, 21226months, with any kind of a plan and anything we have to look at1227for the allocation of dollars to get you back on track?1228    Secretary Phelan. Thank you for the question.1229    I would tell you that we have been working very hard with1230the DEPSEC and SECDEF on this issue. It has been a high1231priority for them, as it is for us.1232    I think that we are trying to attack this problem from a1233number of different angles to try to figure it out and get a1234better idea. I would like to believe that we should be able to1235come and sit down with you hopefully within the next month or 21236months. Give me a little bit of decision space time, because we1237are still trying to get this all put together.1238    You know, a lot of what the companies will tell you is that1239we took people off of Virginia and put them on Columbia, which1240set them back on Virginia. I am trying to understand this,1241because I think part of the problem also is, there are1242materials they are waiting on. They take workers and shift them1243from a Columbia to a Virginia, which does not make sense. That1244is something that does not happen in the Korean shipyards or1245the Japanese shipyards that I visited.1246    I saw a fair amount of automation at the Korean shipyards1247that I have not seen in our yards that I think will help things1248in a big way. And that doesn't--you know, a lot of people think1249that means less jobs. It actually doesn't. It just means1250different types of jobs. Because those machines still need to1251be watched and kept abreast in what they are doing. So it is a1252different type of training.1253    As soon as I have an answer, I will come and sit down and1254give you the honest truth on what I think is the best we can do1255schedule-wise and what we think these are going to be and how1256quickly we can fix that problem. But it would be----1257    Ms. McCollum. I appreciate that. I really do, I appreciate1258that. Because, you know, the President has put forward all1259kinds of things--you know, top priority is Sentinel, which is a1260huge boondoggle cost overrun that this committee is having to1261deal with, and the concept--as has been described in this1262hearing room--the concept of what Golden Dome is going to look1263like.1264    For me, we have a task in front of us that has not been1265completed, and, for me, that is my first priority, my first1266mission. So I appreciate that.12671268                            AUKUS AGREEMENT12691270    Along with that, the chairman and I had the opportunity to1271go to Australia last year with some other committee members.1272And do you think, with the AUKUS, that we are going to be able1273to meet our requirements that are included in that agreement?1274Is that part of the calculus on how we get back on track?1275    Admiral Kilby. It just may be a little more--because I have1276been working this a little bit longer than the Secretary.1277    So we have accepted money from Australia to get to the1278``.33'' part of 2.33. We have Australia workers at our Pearl1279Harbor Navy Shipyard. We have maintained and done some1280availabilities in Stirling. I think those are all on plan for1281AUKUS Phase 1, and that is helpful to us.1282    But, to your point, ma'am, we have to get to the 2 and then1283to get to the 2.33. So I think all that, in conjunction with1284each other, is what we are going to try to bring to bear,1285including the investments, supported by you, which we are1286appreciative of, on both SIB and MIB, I think, are key to1287clutch in. And that dividend will make parts more available and1288we will be able to do our work faster.1289    So Phase 1 is on plan now, and we just need to watch it,1290because, working with two countries, we have come across some1291things that we didn't expect as far as bureaucratic roadblocks1292to getting workers in certain places. So I think we are on it,1293we are going to stay with it, and I think it is important for1294the whole effort.1295    Ms. McCollum. Thank you.12961297                   JOINT LIGHT TACTICAL VEHICLE CUTS12981299    And then, lastly, Mr. Chair, General Smith, we had an1300opportunity to talk just briefly about this, that the decision1301for the Army to cut the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle came as as1302much of a surprise to you as it did to this committee.1303    So if you could maybe share with some of the other members1304of the committee how you think these cuts could impact you both1305presently and in the future? And what happens with the cost per1306unit for these vehicles for your budget as you are getting1307ready to prepare it?1308    General Smith. Yes, ma'am.1309    The Marine Corps is fully committed to the JLTV program. It1310is our workhorse on the ground tactical vehicle fleet.1311    It is a little bit too early to assess the impact of the1312Army stopping their version of the program. But per unit costs1313are clearly going to go up. APUC, the average per unit cost, is1314going to go up when the orders go down, and that is going to1315negatively impact the Marine Corps' ability to fulfill its1316ground tactical vehicle mobility strategy, which has me1317concerned.1318    Ms. McCollum. Well, when you have those numbers, we would1319appreciate receiving them.1320    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.13211322                      JAPAN'S SHIPYARD CAPABILITY13231324    Mr. Calvert. Thank the gentlelady.1325    I just want to make a point too. Our former colleague, Rahm1326Emanuel, who was the ambassador to Japan, would call me, and I1327know he called the full committee chairman from time to time,1328pointing out that Japan has significant shipyard capability and1329capacity to help us with the maintenance of our ships without1330having to send them back to CONUS. And right now apparently1331there are some scheduling issues with some of the yard.1332    So I hope, Mr. Secretary, you are looking at some of our1333colleagues in Japan and South Korea. They are great allies that1334maybe can help you get you where you need to be.1335    Secretary Phelan. Thank you for the question, Chairman.1336    Look, all options are on the table. And I was very1337impressed by what I saw in Korea, in Japan. I saw two ships1338that they did maintenance work in Korea for us. Excellent. I1339actually saw a DDG destroyer they made, which is 10 percent1340bigger than ours--which, by the way, was an excellent ship. I1341even think the combat information center was laid out better1342than ours, looking at it.1343    So I think we have to really look at this. And I think I1344kind of bucket it in two ways. There are short-term things we1345need to do because we need to get hulls in the water, and there1346is long-term. And the long-term is getting the maritime1347industrial base, getting the jobs, getting those brought back1348here.1349    I think you have seen what Hanwha did with Philly, with the1350Philly Shipyard. They are very interested in expanding some of1351their work here.1352    We have to put everything on the table. We are at that sort1353of kind of period of time. And so, yes, we will definitely be1354looking into that.1355    Mr. Calvert. Thank you for that.1356    Mr. Rogers, the Dean.13571358              LITTORAL COMBAT SHIPS AND DRUG INTERDICTION13591360    Mr. Rogers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1361    Mr. Secretary, let me discuss with you lay hold drug1362interdiction. The Navy has a history of reliability issues with1363littoral combat ships, but plans to decommission those ships1364have halted due to other potential use cases, such as drug1365interdiction missions.1366    The Navy's Littoral Combat Ship has recently gotten some1367praise for its success in those drug interdiction missions. In1368April of this year, the Minneapolis-St. Paul, the Freedom1369variant LCS, stopped two suspected drug smuggling operations1370within 72 hours through a combination of air and surface1371operations in the Caribbean Sea.1372    The successful operation that I have described is one of1373several good examples in recent years of an LCS interdicting1374drug smuggling operations.1375    In 2020, the USS Gabrielle Giffords stopped a vessel in the1376eastern Pacific that was carrying $106 million worth of1377cocaine. In 2021, the USS Wichita and USS Sioux City seized $171378million and more than $20 million worth of cocaine.1379    These littoral ships, they are fast, they carry1380helicopters, they have air and surface search radars, all of1381which are very helpful in stopping drug smuggling operations.1382    These ships are also armed with missiles. They are unlikely1383to be used against drug smugglers due to the cost of the1384munitions.1385    Of all the Navy's warships, the LCS is probably the best1386choice for counter-drug missions. But the program has been1387repeatedly described as a costly misstep for the sea service.1388The two classes of small but fast warships were designed to1389operate in littoral nearshore waters and primarily seen as a1390solution to an unclear problem.1391    Due to technical issues, the service has opted to retire1392some of the oldest vessels years before their end of service1393life. Others would be pawned off to regional partners and1394allies.1395    In 2025, just recently, the Navy stopped buying LCSes,1396halting production at the current 28 ships, rather than moving1397forward with the 52 that was originally planned.1398    What can you say about this? Are we going in the right1399path?1400    Admiral Kilby. Sir, if I could start and then turn it over1401to the Secretary.1402    One, I think your points are spot-on. Even though it is a1403Coast Guard mission to do drug interdiction, the Navy and the1404Coast Guard have worked together on this for a long time. The1405LCS presents some great attributes, as you pointed out. One of1406them is a gigantic mission bay if needed.1407    So the ability to support General Guillot and Admiral1408Holsey, both Northern Command and the Southern Command1409commanders, for missions south of the border I think are a1410great use of that vessel and it would allow us to free up DDGs1411to do other things. So I think there is great potential there.1412    We have had some challenges with our hull mechanical1413electrical system, particularly on the Freedom class. We have1414addressed those through a combining gear fix.1415    So I think those missions can be well served by LCS,1416allowing our DDGs maybe to be used for another mission in1417homeland defense for General Guillot, like an out-of-area1418deployer from either our West or East Coast.1419    So we will look at these platforms and we will field the1420best Navy we can for the budget we have to do the missions1421assigned.1422    Mr. Rogers. Well, we are being flooded with drugs. That is1423beyond doubt. And it seems to me it is not too wise to holster1424a weapon such as the LCS in this time.1425    I thank you, and I yield back.1426    Mr. Calvert. Thank you.1427    Ms. McCollum.1428    Ms. McCollum. Thank you, Mr. Chair.1429    Mr. Secretary, you are not totally aware of this, but both1430the chairman, when I was the chair and he was the ranking1431member, and now he is the chair and I am the ranking member, we1432have asked repeatedly for ways in which the LCS, when it fits,1433when it works, can be repurposed for doing programs such as1434former Chairman Rogers was just talking about. And slow to get1435us the report; the report was not very adequate.1436    And so if you ask somebody back in your office they can dig1437up an old file for you. This is something that this committee1438has been trying to figure out how to be best use for these1439ships when it works. We know that they won't work for1440everything. Some of them need to be retired and I want to be1441clear on that.1442    But this committee has been asking for this for a long1443time, and I just thought maybe you would want to know that.1444    Secretary Phelan. Thank you. I will look into that. We are1445very good at putting together reports and studies and hiding1446them and getting to us. So I am working on getting through that1447as fast as possible. We will look into it.1448    We are spending a lot of time, honestly, trying to come up1449with the appropriate force structure given the budget that we1450have and the budget issues we have with some of the other1451programs.1452    So we have some tough decisions to make and tough1453tradeoffs, and that is really what we are going through as we1454speak.1455    Mr. Calvert. Thank you.1456    Ms. DeLauro.14571458                   VIRGINIA CLASS SUBMARINE CONTRACT14591460    Ms. DeLauro. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.1461    I know there has been discussion in my absence about the1462Virginia class submarine contract, so I don't want to have you1463be repetitive. But I just wanted to--a couple of things in this1464area.1465    And we know that the contract announcement came at the end1466of April. We were supposed to get it at the end of February.1467But the April 30 contract modification indicated that future1468Virginia class procurement will not be conducted through,1469quote, ``block multiyear contracts,'' as has previously been1470the case, but instead through one-off cost-plus-incentive-fee1471contracts.1472    You have noted that the April 30 contract modification that1473obligated the December continuing resolution money was1474renegotiated to appropriately, quote, ``share risk between the1475Navy and the industry,'' end quote. You have indicated that1476this will serve as a template for future shipbuilding1477contracts.1478    Whatever the contracting method that the Navy uses, we have1479the same goal: getting production back on schedule and on1480budget.1481    Can you explain in more detail how shifting contract1482mechanisms will achieve that goal and create, as you described,1483quote, ``more value for the American taxpayer''?1484    Secretary Phelan. Thank you for the question, Ranking1485Member. And, again, thank you for the support of this committee1486for the Virginia.1487    I think at the end of day we had a very tight timeframe in1488which to try to get something put together quickly in order to1489continue the production on Virginia.1490    What we ended up doing was we had a cost-plus contract,1491which was eating us alive. And as you delay out schedule that1492is pretty tough.1493    So we had to get money to them for workforce. We had to1494send a demand signal to the private sector to put money into1495their facilities and invest.1496    What I liked about what we were able to do on this contract1497is we shifted it from cost-plus with a cap of call it--with a1498130 percent ceiling to fixing it up to 86 percent of the cost,1499but we brought the ceiling up to 138 percent.1500    So we ended up fixing the price more on this, which our1501view was to put pressure on them to try to perform and get1502quicker.1503    So the template is going to be more of a fixed price with1504some incentives. And I think what we are missing to some extent1505is incenting them to move faster.1506    So with a cost-plus contract, the longer you wait, the more1507money you make, and that is what we have.1508    And we have to look also at one of the things--again, it is1509still early--but we have to figure out who else can help us1510build these and if there are modules we can have done somewhere1511else to get this done, because we have a sole source supplier1512and that is a big constraint. And there are a number of1513infrastructure constraints that exist as well, both at the1514public shipyards and at the private shipyards.1515    So to give you an example, one of the workers I met at1516Norfolk told me that she has to get to the office--she has to1517get to the yard at 5 in the morning, her shift starts at 7,1518because the parking is so bad that she wants to get a spot1519because she has to get home to her child after her shift is1520over.1521    That is crazy. We need to fix that. And we need to come up1522with some ways to do that.1523    But specifically to your question, we are able to fix this1524now. And I think when we get to the next contract we will look1525to try to modify that more and have more shared risk with them,1526which is kind of locking in margin, locking in numbers, and1527also trying to rationalize the supply base.1528    I think we have done some very good work with 3D printing,1529which the admiral can talk about, in Danville. I visited a1530company on the West Coast that does 3D printing that I think1531has what appears to be a pretty good solution to our munitions1532problem potentially.1533    We have to get more advanced. We need to try things. This1534is a very--it is a thing the Navy does not like to do, and we1535need to get better at that.1536    Ms. DeLauro. I just would say that the fixed price--and,1537again, just tracking what those incentives are so that we don't1538find ourselves back in the situation where you have got the1539cost-plus issue. And obviously as you spread it out, there is1540much more money involved. We tried to get that under control.1541    So I appreciate what you are doing. And we want to really1542understand our regular communication about how that is working1543and what that means in dollars and cents and what that means1544and using that model.1545    It is important for us to know what these models are, as my1546colleagues have said, because we are dealing with the money1547here and being able to really be able to get you what you need,1548but not at any price at all and production being slower than it1549usually is.1550    Secretary Phelan. I understand the frustration. I have been1551on it 50 days and I feel like I am in a perpetual game of1552whack-a-mole whenever I find something new.1553    I don't have great news. I don't think it is going to be1554good. I am going to be very honest. The numbers are eye-opening1555to me. I am still trying to get through it and really sort1556through what is real, what is on us, and what is on them.1557    Ms. DeLauro. Thank you.1558    Secretary Phelan. I am tired of the COVID excuse. I am1559tired of a lot of these things. I hear we have a 139-year-old1560facility. I am like, when you signed the contract it was 1341561years old. So I am not sure that is my problem.1562    Ms. DeLauro. Thank you.1563    Secretary Phelan. And so we are working on that.1564    Ms. DeLauro. Thank you. And we want to be helpful in that.1565    Mr. Chairman, can I ask one more quick question?1566    Mr. Calvert. Real quick.15671568                    FUTURE OF MILITARY SHIPBUILDING15691570    Ms. DeLauro. Okay. Very, very quick. Just about the future1571of military shipbuilding.1572    Let me just say it this way. Congress, we have invested1573billions of dollars in the submarine industrial base. We need a1574clear sense of what oversight and accountability mechanisms the1575Navy has in place to ensure again that the money is well spent.1576And we need to know how you are going to continue to engage1577with this subcommittee and the Congress to ensure that we are1578kept up to date on the Navy's work in this area.1579    Very, very quickly. We have seen the Army the last 2 weeks,1580Secretary Hegseth, he is interested in reevaluating programs,1581force structure, service-wide. We received little or no warning1582on those changes.1583    And I would hope that if the Secretary's office is looking1584at something similar for the Navy and the Marine Corps that we1585would receive advanced notice and would be consulted on the1586decisions. Can you commit to that?1587    Secretary Phelan. I am sorry. Give me the question you are1588asking me. I am sorry.1589    Ms. DeLauro. I want you to commit to letting us know what1590restructuring is, what services. Like Hegseth just said we are1591going to reevaluate the force structure service-wide with no1592warning about any of that. And we don't know if you are1593planning anything similar for the Navy or for the Marine Corps,1594and we need to be engaged and involved in that conversation.1595    Secretary Phelan. So obviously the administration has--the1596President and Secretary Hegseth have put forth a plan to1597flatten and streamline the flag officer and general officer1598structure to ensure decisions are being made closer to the1599warfighter.1600    And so we are looking at that as we speak, per that1601instruction, and complying with that order. We are trying to1602figure out how to streamline and make things more efficient,1603and we are doing our best as to that. And that is all I can1604tell you.1605    Ms. DeLauro. Well, I would just say this to you. If those1606conversations are going on with regard to the Navy, that is1607something that this committee should know about and be engaged1608and involved in. We just don't want to be told that this is it,1609this is the fait accompli. Hell no. Hell no. So I am hoping1610that you can commit.1611    Mr. Calvert. We don't want a failure to communicate.1612    Ms. DeLauro. You got it.1613    Mr. Calvert. Mr. Womack.16141615                        NEXT-GENERATION FIGHTERS16161617    Mr. Womack. Ms. Kaptur, do we need to yield to Siri for a1618question? [Laughter.]1619    Ms. Kaptur. I surprise myself all the time.1620    Mr. Womack. It happens to all of us.1621    Thanks, gentlemen, for your service to our country. I want1622to ask a couple of questions.1623    The first one fits into the category of a good plan1624executed now is probably better than a perfect plan executed1625way too late.1626    And I realize the level of classification here so we can't1627too far down in the weeds, but maybe in general terms on next-1628generation Navy fighters.1629    The Air Force has moved out on their plan. The Navy has1630not. I am concerned about the risk associated with delays. And1631without getting too far down in the weeds, can you help me1632understand how we mitigate risk and when we might expect a1633down-select on that platform?1634    Because if everybody understands that there is a move-out1635date for China on Taiwan of 2027, those are the kinds of things1636that cause us to have to look at our acquisition process and1637wonder if we are operating from behind.1638    So I don't know, Mr. Secretary, if you want to take that1639one or if the admiral wants to take it. Then I will come back1640with an amphib question for General Smith.1641    Secretary Phelan. I think we are still looking at the force1642structure manned, unmanned, and understanding what is the right1643balance, how to do that going forward.1644    So we are committed and I am committed to making sure we1645have the ability to fight in the future and meet the next-1646generation threats.1647    That is what we will look to do, and we are still working1648through that. We are testing a number of unmanned platforms. My1649own bias is manned and unmanned combined is probably the best,1650but I am going to leave it to the experts as we learn more and1651more. We have learned a lot from Ukraine, we have learned a lot1652from some of these other conflicts on how we should fight and I1653think that needs to inform our posture moving forward.1654    Mr. Calvert. Admiral.1655    Admiral Kilby. Just to comment on the sixth-gen fighter.1656    I have had the pleasure of briefing this committee on1657carrier survivability and the Navy composition in the western1658Pacific. The sixth-gen fighter is key to Air Wing of the1659Future.1660    So to me, the carrier is the most survivable airfield we1661have, period, end stop. The sixth-gen fighter is a keystone of1662our Air Wing of the Future, which includes, as the Secretary1663indicated, manned and unmanned aircraft.1664    And that is the beauty of an air wing, is that it can be1665updated and still be serviced by the aircraft carrier, which is1666a capital investment which we are going to have for a long,1667long time.1668    To me it is the joint force that is going to win against1669China. That is the Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and the Army1670and the Space Force. And the Navy brings mobility, which is our1671chief attribute for you and the chief confounding thing for1672China.1673    So the carrier is a big piece of that because it brings1674mass volume fires over and over and over again, where a1675submarine will have to be reloaded and a destroyer will have to1676be reloaded maybe at some place and take it offline. That1677carrier has got sustainment power and the thing that delivers1678it is a fifth-gen and sixth-gen fighter into the future.1679    Mr. Womack. But back to the technologies. I realize that we1680are deliberating the emerging technologies that will be central1681into the decision-making process. These doggone technologies1682are changing like every day, right? I mean, we are learning1683stuff from the battlefield all the time.1684    And the private sector is doing a fine job of helping1685understand how these developing technologies are emerging as1686quickly as they are.1687    So at what point in time will we say time is up, we have1688got to move out, we have got to make a decision and go? When1689does that happen?1690    Secretary Phelan. I think at the end of the day, look, we1691need to create more flexibility in our procurement. We need to1692be able to adapt faster. We are very slow. We are putting ships1693in the water that are 30 percent obsolete by the time they get1694into the water. That is a bad, bad thing and we need to fix1695that. So I don't have a specific answer to your question,1696Congressman.1697    I think we are going to look at that. We are studying each1698program line by line and trying to understand this.1699    I think the companies that currently serve us would tell1700you, ``Oh, we have got to do this immediately.'' I am not sure,1701because of the speed at which technology is moving. What we are1702seeing in advanced manufacturing is changing daily.1703    And so what we will be able to do today versus 2 years, 31704years, 4 years, 5 years is going to take a while. I think this1705comes back to my earlier comment about what our force posture1706is going to look like.1707    I think what I found in business is the best way to be1708successful is not to be reactive. It is to say, where do you1709want to be in 5 years, where do you want to be in 10 years, and1710then work your way backwards to get there. Don't try to work to1711it, work back from it. And we are still in that process. I1712don't know if that----1713    Admiral Kilby. I think, Secretary, you covered it.1714    But I just wanted to speak to the operational benefit of1715sixth-gen fighter to the joint force. We are going up against a1716world class adversary potentially and we have got to have world1717class equipment. And for the aviation component of Air Wing of1718the Future, that is a sixth-gen fighter.1719    Mr. Womack. Got it.17201721                            AMPHIBIOUS FLEET17221723    Finally, with the remaining time I have, General Smith, you1724and I have talked many times about amphibs. And I am very1725concerned about the readiness rates that are critical to your1726ARGs and what these rates do in terms of adding risk to our1727ability to deploy.1728    So I am going to throw you that softball because I know you1729have some strong feelings about your amphibious fleet.1730    General Smith. Well, sir, I am working closely with my1731shipmate, Jim Kilby, Admiral Kilby, to bring the readiness1732rates of amphibs up to where they need to be. We base our1733amphibious readiness on 80 percent acebo (ph), 80 percent1734readiness, and the current readiness is in the fortieth1735percentile.1736    So it has got to come up. There are only two solutions:1737either increase readiness or increase the number of ships and/1738or a combination thereof.1739    But there is a thing called the Optimized Fleet Response1740Plan, OFRP, that I am committed to, I know Jim Kilby is1741committed to.1742    So we are working hard to produce the number of amphibs1743required to produce a 3.0 ARG/MEU. That is, one Amphibious1744Ready Group/Marine Expeditionary Unit off the East Coast, one1745off the West Coast, and the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit out1746of Okinawa, Japan, episodically deployed.1747    Again, it is the Swiss Army knife of the joint force. It1748can do a whole lot of everything and a lot of combat. It can do1749humanitarian assistance, disaster relief. It can evacuate1750embassies. It can reassure allies and partners.1751    But it can do combat. It can knock down Houthi drones. It1752can take out targets in the Red Sea. And it can keep sea lanes1753of communication open.1754    So we think it is a good investment. And, again, it is the1755Swiss Army knife. But I am committed to getting those1756amphibious readiness rates up, and I know Admiral Kilby is as1757well.1758    Mr. Womack. Thank you.1759    Mr. Calvert. Thank you.1760    Mr. Case.17611762                EXPAND MIL-MIL RELATIONSHIPS WITH ALLIES17631764    Mr. Case. Mr. Secretary, first of all, commendation on1765kicking off your tenure with a listening tour. That is great1766that you get out of Washington and see what is happening out in1767the field, both here and internationally.1768    On the international front, I have asked many of your1769colleagues that have come in here this year about the extent to1770which our military is now required to carry a heavier load in1771our relationships with other countries around the world,1772friends and allies.1773    But not just friends and allies, but potential friends and1774allies, and the consequences really of withdrawing from some of1775our other instruments of national outreach, for example USAID.1776And as that has happened we obviously have some pretty1777nervous--and the combination of other things, tariffs or1778whatever--we have some pretty nervous friends and allies out1779there. And our mil-to-mil relationships have really carried the1780day in past comparable situations.1781    I guess what I would like to hear you talk about is, what1782are the opportunities, from your perspective, in your1783responsibility, to expand those mil-to-mil relationships? So I1784am thinking about, for example, more joint training exercises,1785more just people out there on the road as you have done,1786meeting a little bit more with their colleagues around the1787world.1788    Is that a conscious part of your planning, your policy?1789    Secretary Phelan. Thank you for the question, Congressman.1790    Yes. I mean, in Korea I met with the Minister of Defense1791and the Acting President at the time. And in Japan I met with1792their equivalent of the Joint Chiefs and their Minister of1793Defense as well.1794    I think we are doing a number of joint exercises, and I1795will let Admiral Kilby talk about them because I think they are1796pretty impressive what we have been doing in the Indo-Pacific.1797    But I think, look, my message to the allies is the same as1798the President said, which is we are your ally, but it is time1799for you to pay your fair share. And I think that is the basic1800message.1801    And what I have seen to some extent is in some cases we are1802definitely seeing that and in some we are seeing the reluctance1803and the political aspects of it.1804    From the military side, they want to spend it, they know1805they need it, they know that they need to have the same1806capability.1807    And I think, candidly, we need to attack even the1808manufacturing aspect of this better. I think we need to be1809speaking more about how do we both create our forces to make1810sure that if we got into a major conflict that we can maybe1811depend on them to help manufacture some things as well.1812    So I think that is a critical component. I have met with1813the head of the Spanish Navy, the head of the Italian Navy, and1814recently one of the Ministers of Defense from the U.K. came in.1815    Mr. Case. Thank you. Thank you for that.1816    And I think that I guess my only response to you is I think1817we can both have higher expectations of our allies and partners1818and maintain a much stronger military relationship as we all1819get through a little bit of change and dislocation in those1820relationships. I don't think it is an either-or.1821    If I can just shift on you, Admiral, you probably have1822something to say on this, but I do want to shift quickly.18231824                            NAVIGATION PLAN18251826    Admiral Franchetti of course came up with her navigation1827plan in 2024, refined in, what is it, Project 33 in terms of a1828timeframe. President Trump came out with his ``Restoring1829America's Maritime Dominance'' in April, just a month ago.1830    I am trying to figure out how that all fits together in1831terms of what we have to do in terms of funding you. Has1832anything fundamentally changed in the goals or are there just1833massive changes that you are going to go through where we have1834got to go, ``Oh, wait a minute now, we have got to go in a1835different direction or at least consider it''? Are these all1836pretty much aligned going into the future?1837    Admiral Kilby. My opinion is they are aligned.1838    Now, Admiral Franchetti's focus was 2027, as is mine. So1839the goals we were pursuing are goals to get after a force that1840is as ready as possible by January 1, 2027.1841    The first goal is ready platforms. That is where the 801842percent combat surge ready comes from where 80 percent of my1843aircraft, ships, and submarines that are not in depot level are1844available to the fleet commander if needed.1845    We still are going to follow the process that General Smith1846talked about to get them fully certified. But if they need to1847get called over early, I want to know that those ships are1848armed and manned and ready to go for the call.1849    So those are good targets and we are still moving out on1850them.1851    Mr. Case. Okay. So, I mean, when we look at matching up1852what has been done in the last year against the budget request,1853we will see a continuity, I suppose that is one. I just don't1854want to get surprised at anything coming out like, ``Oh, wow,1855we are not doing that anymore.''1856    Admiral Kilby. I do not think you will be surprised.1857    Mr. Case. Okay. Thank you.1858    Mr. Calvert. Thank you.1859    Judge Carter.18601861                        DIRECTED ENERGY SYSTEMS18621863    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1864    Thank you, gentlemen, for what you do for our sailors and1865our marines. You have a big-time job.1866    Admiral Kilby, you and others have acknowledged that1867relying on expensive missile systems to counter low-cost1868threats like drones is unsustainable.1869    What is the Navy's plan to rapidly field directed energy1870systems like the mechanized enduring high-level laser for1871shipboard use? And how are you incorporating lessons from the1872Army's development to reduce cost per engagement and preserve1873the missile power for higher and more important threats?1874    Admiral Kilby. Sir, I don't restrict that only to directed1875energy, but that is certainly an area we are interested in. We1876have a HELIOS installed on the Preble which is located in1877Japan. We had some problems with testing but now we are up to1878one-third of the power and we are going to continue to test1879that weapon system and make sure it works.1880    You know, I have got buyer's remorse. When I worked with1881General Smith in our last life, I was the N9, which is the1882person procuring systems, and I was focused on a laser between1883500 kilowatts and 1 megawatt because that is what it takes to1884knock down an antiship cruise missile.1885    I wish I had been a little bit more thoughtful and taken a1886lesser power weapon that would have been capable against UASes.1887    In the meantime, we are going to pursue that testing on the1888HELIOS system, but we are strapping on a lot of systems on the1889Ford Strike Group which is going to deploy next from the East1890Coast, like a Coyote missile system, which is a much cheaper1891version of a munition to ascend at a counter-UAS threat or a1892high-velocity profile--projectile, sorry--high-velocity1893projectile from the 5-inch gun. That is a very--a more1894expensive--inexpensive way to get at it. Or Hellfire-Longbow1895missile, which is a more inexpensive way to get at that.1896    So we are going to put those on that system. They are not1897fully integrated with the combat system. But I think they will1898be very effective and we will test them out at sea and then we1899will procure them at scale if we need to.1900    Mr. Carter. That is good to hear.19011902                    GROWTH IN SHIPBUILDING WORKFORCE19031904    Secretary Phelan, workforce development to revitalize the1905maritime industrial base is crucial to speed up shipbuilding1906and for readiness.1907    Are there currently planned partnerships between Department1908of the Navy and Texas-based community colleges, trade schools,1909or universities to grow the next-generation skilled1910shipbuilding and maintenance workforce?1911    Secretary Phelan. As the product of a Texas college, I wish1912I knew the answer to that, but I am going to let Admiral Kilby1913answer that question. We are doing a lot of programs as it1914relates to shipbuilding at a lot of different schools. I do1915believe we do have them in Galveston, I think.1916    Admiral Kilby. Yeah, we have got to expand this, sir.1917    So one of the things the Secretary referred to was 2 weeks1918ago I went to Danville, Virginia, where we have an Accelerated1919Training in Defense Manufacturing Center. That is an exciting1920proposition for me.1921    We used to send money to invest in the Navy in Danville,1922Virginia. I watched five disciplines being trained 8 hours,1923three sections a day, so 24/7, welders, nondestructive testers,1924QAs, additive manufacturing, and a thing called CNC. They had192516 CNC machines. At Norfolk Naval Shipyard I have got two.1926    This part was produced in Danville, Virginia. It is a part1927required to fix a HELO hangar door. When we went to go look at1928how to make that part or if it was available in the stock1929system, it was not. It would take 40 weeks to make this part1930through traditional means. Danville did it in 19 days. And if I1931did it tomorrow, it would be 5 days, because I don't have to1932find the IP and get it run in the system and do a FYDP.1933    So to me, that is the promise, and we need to do that all1934over our country.1935    Rep. Kaptur, we talked about how this could happen in Ohio.1936That system is going to produce 900 people a year at a 901937percent placement rate that go into the defense industrial1938base. That is the way to buy back our system so it has more1939tradesmen in it than it has today.1940    We used to have 33 percent of our workforce was in that1941category. Now it is 11. My son is going to welding school at1942Northern Virginia Community College. I hope he goes to1943Danville, Virginia, to get his cert.1944    Mr. Carter. I am very much looking to make the trades work1945and have been for now about 10 years and invested quite a bit1946of money in trades in many of our States because I have seen1947this coming and hoping that when we get the trades going it1948will work fine.1949    And 3D training is the real solution. I just talked to a1950guy last night who was at an event I was at in Austin and he1951told me his business was 3D printing for the Navy.1952    Mr. Calvert. Thank the gentleman.1953    Mr. Carter. And I was glad to hear that.1954    Mr. Calvert. Thank the gentleman.1955    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Chairman.1956    Mr. Calvert. Ms. Lee.19571958                     FALLON RANGE TRAINING COMPLEX19591960    Ms. Lee. Thank you.1961    Thank you, Mr. Secretary, Admiral, General. Nice to be with1962you.1963    I wanted to ask quickly about the Fallon Range Training1964Complex, which is undergoing a significant modernization1965project.1966    Can you outline where we are in this process, Admiral?1967    Admiral Kilby. Well, a lot of work, Congresswoman, on that,1968and I am appreciative of that.1969    To protect that range, which is a world class range for us,1970as you know, not only do our air wings get certified in there,1971but we have made a significant milcon investment in a training1972facility, to include other communities in the Navy, the surface1973community as well as the aviation community, in a live virtual1974constructive manner.1975    So that is one of our seven targets, Congressman Case, as1976well, is to increase the ability to conduct training anywhere1977we want, wherever we want, on our ships and our ranges. So1978Fallon is the centerpiece of that.1979    Ms. Lee. Great. You spoke with Senator Jacky Rosen during1980your confirmation hearing. It is my understanding that the Navy1981is currently working to meet the requirement to give full1982compensation for grazing permit holders who are being1983displaced.1984    The current compensation offer, I understand, is said to be1985inadequate. So have you had an opportunity to review this? And1986could you give an update to that, where that stands?1987    Secretary Phelan. I am planning to go out to Fallon, I1988think, the end of this month or very early next month for1989myself to go see it.1990    As you know, I am trying to balance the fairness to the1991grazing permit holders and the American taxpayer. I think that1992my understanding is the bid ask, I am going to call it, is not1993that wide and we are trying to figure out how to collapse that1994down. I don't have an update since then, but I figured I am1995going to go there and try to see if I can get that----1996    Ms. Lee. Great. Thank you. Appreciate that.19971998                            FORCE STRUCTURE19992000    I wanted to just touch on force structure review as you2001were talking about the need to cut the bureaucracy, I mean,200256,000 acquisition personnel.2003    But at the same time, I am hearing an incredible time-2004compressing need to bring new capabilities--AI, directed2005energy, autonomous systems.2006    Right now you have a hiring freeze. We have a deferred2007resignation program.2008    I am just wondering, how are you managing and prioritizing2009who gets cut, who stays, in light of this modernization need?2010    Secretary Phelan. So if you look at the workforce there is2011basically about 12 percent of it that attrits every year. And2012there was about another 8 percent that basically is in 1 year.2013    So if you look at what they have really done, is they have2014offered up money to those and a lot of people have taken2015advantage of it. Now, we have identified all those areas that2016are critical where we cannot lose people. And so that has not2017been offered to them.2018    I think the next round is really to really make sure that2019we are rationalizing and making sure we are not losing key2020people in other areas.2021    To me it is just the question of, are there things that we2022can streamline and make it better? You talk about AI and what2023it can do. It is an incredibly powerful tool. I used it in my2024business before I retired and it had the capability of about2025eight people when I was done training that system.2026    So it is very powerful and I think it can be used in2027different ways. But I think it is very additive to people. So,2028again, it is a tool, I think, that helps people.2029    I can let the admiral kind of go into more specifics on2030some of the other things as well.2031    Admiral Kilby. We are working through those people that2032elected to take the RP right now. So we are really looking at2033the structure and saying, how do we make sense of this and get2034the organization we need?2035    I am a shipyard fan. We lost 1,918 people from our2036shipyards. But when I looked at the specificity and we are2037still analyzing what trades did we lose from, was it overhead,2038was it direct labor, the rough magnitude is two person, twice2039the number of people in overhead from the trade.2040    So to me there is an opportunity to rebalance here, because2041we want that ratio to be 20 percent indirect, 80 percent2042direct, and we were a little out of balance. So there is an2043opportunity to rightsize the force. But we do need people like2044structural engineers to go adjudicate problems when we come2045across them.2046    So we have got to come through that and do exactly what the2047Secretary said and get the most effective organization. So we2048are doing that work now.2049    Ms. Lee. That is good to hear.2050    Mr. Calvert. Mr. Ellzey.20512052                       SIXTH-GENERATION FIGHTERS20532054    Mr. Ellzey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.2055    Thank you all for being here.2056    Admiral, you are wearing eight stars and you are not2057getting paid enough for it. And I just want you to know you are2058doing a tremendous job.2059    General, force design has finally reached escape velocity2060and you have withstood the attacks. And I am glad to see that2061it is coming to fruition.2062    Mr. Secretary, I have never seen anybody work so hard,2063travel so much, and learned as much as you have in only 50 days2064in taking on this gigantic job.2065    Our entire top of the force structure in the Navy/Marine2066Corps team is understaffed. You are still waiting on folks, and2067so are you, and you are doing a tremendous job.2068    Our Navy, our joint force, and our future combatant2069commanders need the Navy's sixth-generation fighter, or the F/2070A-XX, as it is now called. Relying only on the Air Force's2071sixth-gen fighter, called the NGAD, or now the F-47, it doesn't2072solve our air superiority challenge; and neither does just CCA2073on the F-18 or F-35 off our aircraft carriers.2074    I am a fervent supporter of the F-47 and I would have done2075what was necessary to save it. It is basic math. We need more2076air frames, land-based and carrier-based, and we need to2077complicate our adversaries' targeting. And we do that by2078outsticking them--or, in other words, having aircraft that have2079longer range with weapons that have longer range so the carrier2080can stand off and hit the enemy before they can hit us.2081    We do that with an AIM-174B and CCA on Gen 6 Navy fighter.2082And industry is ready to do this, no matter what anybody says.2083    I am kind of getting tired of the bureaucratic brigade2084delaying our mission to provide for the warfighters. We win2085with both the F/A-XX and NGAD, not one or the other.2086    A 3-year year delay is a de facto cancellation and a win2087for China--and Xi Jinping is watching.2088    One of the reasons we are even having this conversation is2089because of a broken acquisition system and systems commands2090that slow us down. What DIU and AFWERX can do in weeks or2091months NAVSEA takes years to do. They either need to get better2092or get DOGE'd. Let's start with the mandated flag officer2093reductions by focusing on a Navy yard and freeing up some2094housing space.2095    So, Admiral Kilby, I just want you to--you have already2096mentioned that the carrier is the most survivable air field we2097have. Can you elaborate a little bit on range and what Gen 62098and 174 bring?2099    Admiral Kilby. Sure. The sixth-gen fighter has some2100capabilities that we need to counter the PRC. Those are2101signatures, those are range, those are different engines. They2102are all the things that will make it survivable.2103    The Air Force and Navy have different missions, but we are2104going against the same threat. So if that threat dictates a2105pivot to that sixth-gen fighter, then the Navy and the Air2106Force and the Marine Corps and the Army and the Space Force2107need to bring all that to bear as a joint force to be capable.2108    So I mentioned the Air Wing of the Future. This is kind of2109the lead sled dog with MQ-25 to shape that out and understand2110what that looks like. Not only does the sixth-gen fighter2111replace a fifth-gen fighter, but it also replaces the Growler.2112So that is an electronic attack aircraft capability that is2113important in this fight because of the electronic warfare2114capability it brings.2115    Mr. Ellzey. Absolutely. And I would like to point out that2116the Chinese are showing us what they have got. It is two Gen 62117fighters and they are building more aircraft carriers. So2118aircraft carriers are absolutely valuable.21192120                             FILL LSM GAPS21212122    General Smith, since we are talking about NAVSEA and all2123the fine work they are doing, can you share some more details2124on how the Marine Corps plans to fill the LSM gap until we and2125the Navy can deliver your suitable platform 8 years late?2126    General Smith. Sir, I can.2127    What I would say is we are looking for something that we2128can get now, as a replicate for a Landing Ship Medium. The2129Landing Ship Medium is purpose built. It is designed to move2130and be an inter-island connector.2131    In the short term, we are looking at using LCU 2000s. We2132are looking at using leased Stern Landing Vessels, so we can2133get our TTPS, our tactics, techniques and procedures right,2134until we can get the LSM that is purpose built for us.2135    Admiral Kilby. I would like to add we are also going to man2136two EPFs. So we have a challenge with our MSC force now. I have2137committed to work with MSC to have a CIVMAR crew on two EPFs2138that serve the Marine Corps in this role until we can cover2139down on this gap.2140    Mr. Ellzey. Fantastic.2141    Thank you, gentleman.2142    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.2143    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentlemen.2144    Ms. Kaptur.21452146                           INDUSTRIAL AMERICA21472148    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.2149    And thank you, Mr. Secretary. Congratulations to you.2150    And also, Admiral Kilby and General Smith, thank you for2151your lifelong service to liberty. You are appreciated and all2152those under your command.2153    Secretary Phelan, I think you are the first person that has2154ever come before this committee within the first paragraph of2155your formal presentation you mentioned the term defense2156industrial base.2157    In the same paragraph you talked about the trips that you2158have taken, the valuable trips to the Atlantic Coast and to the2159Pacific.2160    Well, I come from industrial America, and when I heard2161defense industrial America, I thought ``Ah.''2162    And we are not from the Gulf of America, we are Erie and2163Ontario, Michigan, Superior, Huron. And back in World War II2164Admiral Ernest King, who served as the Commander in Chief of2165the U.S. Fleet and Chief of Naval Operations, came from a place2166called Lorain, Ohio.2167    And what I didn't hear you say--and I am doing this2168purposely just because I have the moment--there are shipyards2169in Cleveland, Monroe, Marinette, Sturgeon Bay, Toledo in our2170region. We also have the phenomenal capability to make steel.2171We almost lost it, but we have struggled to come back. And the2172Great Lakes are America's steel kingdom.2173    We have all the strategic metals. We have nuclear tooling2174and machining because of the nuclear industry and what we do2175with them. We have electric welding. We make air frames, big2176ones. We do Mars boosters.2177    The amount of talent this takes from people who actually do2178the work is extraordinary and America left us behind.2179    So people might describe their districts as agricultural or2180tourism or other skills, but we are industrial America. And we2181invite you to come see us some time, bring anyone you want.2182    We tried to work with the Department of Defense in many2183ways to help in our school systems to attract younger people2184into some of the skills that are needed. That has been harder2185than the Mars booster.2186    So I mention this because you seem to care about that. We2187have underutilized shipyards. We have phenomenal workers. They2188do tooling, they do machining, they do things I can't do. When2189we repair--it is hard enough to make the [inaudible] but then2190when you have to repair it, that takes you to a different2191level. And we have people that do that.2192    So America has a need, and I just want to put our part of2193America on the map. Thank you for listening to that request and2194you are welcome any time.21952196                               INCIDENTS21972198    I also wanted to ask--and I don't know which of you2199gentleman could answer this--over the past year the USS Truman2200has faced several incidents in the Red Sea. In December an F-182201from the USS Truman, as you well know, was mistakenly shot down2202by the USS Gettysburg. And within the last 30 days the same2203carrier lost two F-18s to the ocean within a week of each other2204during operations against the Houthis.2205    What might be done to prevent further such losses and2206ensure the safety of our servicemembers in that region?2207    Admiral Kilby. Ma'am, I will take this and yield to the2208Secretary.2209    There are four incidents. There was one other incident,2210there was a collision. All those incidents on Truman are under2211investigation right now. Accountability actions are being taken2212or will be taken. And when those are complete, I will come2213brief you. I commit to you to come brief you on those specific2214incidents.2215    We are committed to learning what happened and preventing2216it from happening again. And so until those come out, I can't2217give you specifics. But I can tell you, we are going to build2218those types of scenarios that those ships and aircraft were in2219and train to it when we do our composite unit training exercise2220which certifies a strike group to deploy.22212222                        GLOBAL MARITIME SECURITY22232224    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you, Admiral, very much.2225    And finally, what steps are being taken to ensure the2226operations in regions like CENTCOM and EUCOM are not undermined2227by the increased focus on the Indo-Pacific? I am not against2228what you are doing in the Indo-Pacific, but how can the Navy2229maintain global maritime security in CENTCOM and EUCOM with2230these other commitments?2231    Admiral Kilby. Well, ma'am, I would just tell you that2232every one of those combatant commanders has a Navy assigned to2233it, a Navy component assigned to it. In the case of Fifth2234Fleet, that is the NAVCENT Commander Admiral Wikoff and the2235Fifth Fleet, and their job is to manage and operate those2236forces, in the case of CENTCOM for General Kurilla. So that2237won't change.2238    We are focused on the Pacific to be sure, but we are2239focused on wherever the Nation calls us to go, whether it be2240EUCOM, CENTCOM, SOUTHCOM, or INDOPACOM.2241    So you have got our commitment, and we train our forces to2242be ready to do anything in any of those AORs. That is our writ2243to you.2244    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you.2245    Mr. Calvert. Thank the gentlelady.2246    Mr. Aderholt.22472248                           AUKUS PARTNERSHIP22492250    Mr. Aderholt. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.2251    Again, glad to have you here today and enjoyed chatting2252with you earlier.2253    The AUKUS partnership between the United States, the U.K.,2254and Australia is now in its fourth year. Since then we have2255made a lot of progress on both Pillar 1 for submarines and2256Pillar 2 for advanced capabilities.2257    What are some of the lessons learned from the first couple2258of years? And what can we expect for, say, the next 4 years?2259    Mr. Secretary, I will address this one to you.2260    Secretary Phelan. I will give you my 50 days of observation2261and then probably pass it off to Admiral Kilby.2262    Mr. Aderholt. Okay. Fair enough.2263    Secretary Phelan. But I think what I would say is, look, I2264think it is important allies. I think we are learning a lot2265just trying to figure out how to do this together.2266    I would say from my own perspective some of the questions I2267have been trying to understand is how much brain power is this2268taking from us, because subs are very important in how we do it2269and how we produce these.2270    But also being able to do bases and repairs in another2271country I think is a good skill set for us to learn and2272understand better. I believe we are learning from that and2273learning how to build things.2274    I am still trying to assess the real costs of this to us,2275not just dollars and cents but brain power. And so I look2276forward to chatting with you.2277    Mr. Aderholt. Let me ask you this. Would you support an2278AUKUS collaborative campus that would bring together our three2279nations whose focus would be promoting further cooperation and2280meeting both our Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 objectives of the United2281States?2282    Secretary Phelan. You know, look, I think it is an2283interesting idea to look at. It is harder for me to answer2284because I think you have got a lot of distance. And we have2285Australians currently, I think, at our base in Pearl Harbor.2286And it is moving faster with them right now than the U.K.2287    So a campus, I think I would have to understand the concept2288a little better and look at it. So I think it is certainly2289worth looking at.2290    Mr. Aderholt. Admiral, do you want to?2291    Admiral Kilby. Just a specific, sir, there is tech sharing2292we have got to work through from a lessons learned perspective.2293For AUKUS Pillar 1, I think we have got it about right with our2294schooling now.2295    Just to kind of give you a laydown of where we are at, we2296have got 100 Royal Australian Navies in our nuke pipeline right2297now. Those are our schools, so they benefit by graduating from2298the schools. Ultimately they will have to create their own2299school for now. We have got 120 Australians in Pearl Harbor2300Naval Shipyard. And then the conduct of avails together in2301Sterling is important.2302    So I think that campus idea, just not knowing it fully,2303would be more aligned to Pillar 2 than Pillar 1, because our2304system--that conveyer belt needs to keep working. And I don't2305know that we, the Navy, we want to change our process right now2306from nuclear production and how we qualify our enlisted sailors2307and officers. So we would really have to look at that to see if2308there is mutual benefit.23092310                         MOBILE NAVY YARD SITE23112312    Mr. Aderholt. Before my time runs out, I just want to2313mention that of course many think of Alabama as an Army and2314Space state, but support for the Navy is large and it is2315actually growing.2316    I am especially encouraged by the recent investments that2317are in Mobile down on our coast to expand our Nation's maritime2318industrial base in support of such critical missions as2319submarine production and office.2320    Since the initial investment in September of 2024, what are2321the next steps to develop the Mobile Navy Yard site and expand2322the shipbuilding capacity there?2323    Admiral Kilby. Well, I think Austral has done a great job2324turning those investments, and they are going to contribute to2325that 2.33 problem we talked about earlier by producing modules2326for our submarine construction.2327    I think there are other opportunities, too, sir, in the2328unmanned world. So when we think about a hybrid fleet which is2329going to have traditional manned destroyers, cruisers,2330frigates, just like we are talking about aircraft unmanned,2331there are unmanned ships that could be built at nontraditional2332shipyards right now that could be very helpful to us.2333    One of our focus areas is nontraditional sea denial, and2334that is the delivery of unmanned capabilities undersea, on the2335surface, and in the air that can help in a 2027 scenario in the2336western Pacific.2337    So I think there is a lot of opportunity there to expand in2338nontraditional vendors and shipyards.2339    Mr. Aderholt. Thank you.2340    I see my time has expired. I yield back.2341    Mr. Calvert. Thank the gentleman.2342    Mr. Morelle.23432344                   INTEGRATION OF AUTONOMOUS SYSTEMS23452346    Mr. Morelle. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.2347    Thank you to the ranking member.2348    And thank you, gentlemen, not only for being here, for your2349service.2350    If I could just follow up Mr. Aderholt's question, Admiral,2351can you talk about the integration of autonomous systems and2352unmanned systems with manned systems? I know it is an attempt2353to reduce risk to personnel, distribute operations, expand2354maritime domain awareness.2355    What have you learned over the last several years in terms2356of the development and experimentation about how--what insights2357have you learned and sort of how have you used that and will it2358influence the long-term integration of autonomous systems and2359manned systems?2360    Admiral Kilby. So, sir, we have three fleet areas,2361principally, that are working this now: Task Force 59 in Fifth2362Fleet, Task Force 66 in Sixth Fleet, and the Fourth Fleet.2363    Now, there are different needs for those. I would tell you,2364necessity is the mother of invention. So Admiral Cooper, when2365he was the Fifth Fleet Commander, found himself ship-poor, so2366he invested in unmanned technologies to do maritime domain2367awareness with things like a saildrone, which is a persistent2368vessel that can do maritime domain awareness. Similarly, Fourth2369Fleet has adopted that.2370    The work being done in the Sixth Fleet is interesting2371because it ports right over to support Admiral Koehler and2372Admiral Paparo in the Indo-Pacific because those same2373technologies can be used there in a manner that is effective.2374So it is almost a battle lab for the Indo-Pacific.2375    So there is learning across all our fleets. The geography2376drives the use case for what you need for that.2377    But our initial focus is this thing called ``nontraditional2378sea denial.'' Ultimately, though, I want to get to a hybrid2379fleet that engages our unmanned capabilities alongside our2380ships, supporting our submarines, in the air wing of the future2381for manned-to-unmanned teaming.2382    So, to me, that is the future state. And, last week, I was2383in San Diego with Admiral Paparo and Admiral Koehler looking at2384their experimentation and rehearsal of these very technologies.23852386                               SONOBUOYS23872388    Mr. Morelle. Thank you. I appreciate that.2389    I want to maybe, if I can, just expand on the Indo-Pacific2390and the use. Undersea dominance, I understand, is critical to2391deterrence and force projection. I am concerned about what2392appears to be a little bit of a mismatch between rising demand2393for anti-submarine war capabilities and relatively flat funding2394for key enablers like sonobuoys. I think I am saying that2395right. That is a weird word.2396    Inventory levels are reportedly well below the global2397floor, which raises questions about anti-submarine warfare.2398    Could you just elaborate along that line?2399    Admiral Kilby. I think you are spot-on. We got ourselves in2400a non-effective position for sonobuoy manufacturers. But we2401have increased our sonobuoys for everything but the MAC buoy2402now.2403    So we want to get back to that global floor. We will2404continue to invest in it. We appreciate your support in that2405investment. And it is a key enabler for us to invest in.2406    But now we have two companies, Sparta and Lockheed Martin,2407that are individually producing sonobuoys. They are not2408producing something that have to be married up together. I2409think that is a much better solution.2410    And my last stats are, about a 7-percent increase is what2411we are shooting for every year. So I think that is an area we2412definitely need to continue to invest in.24132414                         ACQUISITIONS PERSONNEL24152416    Mr. Morelle. Very good.2417    I just wanted to come back to something. I am new to this2418committee. And when we had Secretary Driscoll, I think he said2419something--and I am paraphrasing--essentially, that there were242035,000 people in the Army related to acquisitions. But, upon2421further conversation, it turned out that it seemed like there2422were about 5,000. The rest were engineers and people who were2423involved with sustainment.2424    So, Mr. Secretary, when you say that there are 56,0002425people, help educate me, what does that mean? Are they actually2426all doing acquisitions, or are they are doing other things that2427relate to sustainment and making sure that the engineering and2428the contracts, et cetera, are appropriate?2429    Secretary Phelan. Thank you for the question, Congressman.2430    There is actually close to 80,000 if you count third-party2431and contractors. But the total number is 55,833, of which243251,438 are civilian.2433    In cost estimating, there are 700. In financial management,2434there is 2,127. In contracting, there is 7,959. In engineering2435and technical management, there is 27,031. In lifestyle2436logistics, there is 7,154. In program management, there is24377,483. Test and evaluation is 2,990. Other, which I am still2438waiting for, is 389.2439    Mr. Morelle. So--and I see I am out of time, and I2440apologize. Perhaps we could get just a definition of what all2441those areas are and, when the appropriations request comes in,2442how that will match up against those.2443    Secretary Phelan. I would be happy to follow up with you on2444it.2445    Mr. Morelle. Okay. Thank you.2446    I yield back, sir.2447    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentleman for that answer.2448    Mr. Fleischmann.24492450                        TACTICAL NUCLEAR WEAPONS24512452    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.2453    Gentlemen, thank you for your testimony today. Very, very2454helpful to me. I am relatively new to the Defense2455Appropriations Subcommittee. I have chaired Energy and Water,2456which of course has the NNSA portfolio, so I am very involved2457with our nuclear arsenal.2458    But a little point of privilege. Admiral Kilby, I want to2459thank you. Our office asked for a Defense fellow, and we2460finally got one, and it is Lieutenant Davids, who is behind me,2461doing a great job, an Annapolis grad, and doing a great job, a2462Navy aviator. But he has been so helpful to me in a lot of the2463conversations we have been having. So it is vicarious to you2464and the Navy that I say thank you for that.2465    Admiral Kilby. Thank you, sir.2466    Mr. Fleischmann. Yes, sir.2467    I am going to ask a question about the Navy's demand for2468tactical nuclear weapons.2469    As chairman of Energy and Water, I have the NNSA facility2470and the Y-12 Security Complex in my district. I am very2471interested in the health and effectiveness of our nuclear2472capabilities. Our boomers, sir, are the survival leg of the2473triad, and they will continue to be a critical deterrent to2474nuclear-armed adversaries.2475    I believe nonstrategic nuclear weapons are a vital2476complement to our credible deterrent in the Pacific. I am a2477strong proponent of the nuclear sea-launched cruise missile2478program, and I believe it is essential that we quickly provide2479INDOPACOM with the flexible capability to deter adversary2480escalation. The ability to deploy nonstrategic nuclear warheads2481on a fast-attack submarine and perhaps eventually surface ships2482greatly increases our credibility.2483    Recognizing, sir, that we are limited on our launch tubes2484afloat, it is only necessary to have a small number of tactical2485nuclear weapons to significantly complicate our adversaries'2486decision calculus.2487    I think, given this dangerous capability gap, the emphasis2488should be on speed. We do not need to reinvent the wheel when2489we are talking about a capability we recently had in service2490only 15 years ago.2491    My question, sir, to both Secretary Phelan and Admiral2492Kilby: Can you share your vision for the SLCM program with this2493committee? And how is the Navy working to ensure this program2494does not stall in development purgatory for years when we need2495a capability as soon as possible?2496    And I will defer to your answers.2497    Admiral Kilby. Thanks for your question, sir.2498    I share your opinion. I have had a couple of sessions with2499Vice Admiral Johnny Wolfe, who is the Strategic Programs Office2500lead who will produce this. He is on target for a new2501production by 2035.2502    But, to your point, he has looked at some alternatives, and2503we haven't totally briefed the Secretary on those yet, but he2504is looking at speed and an urgency to get something out sooner.2505So we need to come through that with our Secretary, but I think2506there are some possibilities there that we can work to.2507    Mr. Fleischmann. Yes, sir.2508    Mr. Secretary.2509    Secretary Phelan. Look, I think that it is an important2510strategic deterrent and gives the President more flexibility2511and options to have, both for tactical nuclear attacks or non-2512nuclear attacks.2513    So it is something that I think is an important component2514to the force and one that I look forward to learning more with2515the Admiral on, now that I know what is going on with it.2516    But I will find out----2517    Mr. Fleischmann. Yes, sir.2518    Secretary Phelan [continuing]. And get back to you.25192520                             SUPPLY CHAINS25212522    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you.2523    In my remaining waning time, I would like to talk about the2524logistic challenges. I have spent most of my time in Congress2525focused on energy--I am Energy and Water chair--all forms of2526energy. And, in 2022, the Navy made a decision to defuel the2527Red Hill Bulk Fuel Storage Facility in Hawaii. This removed a2528strategic fuel reserve of over 250 million gallons of fuel for2529military operations in the Pacific.2530    My question, for whoever would like to answer, please, is:2531What is your assessment of the sustainability of our supply2532chains for both our aviation fuel and ship fuel in the context2533of a protracted conflict in the Pacific? What changes or2534investments does our Navy need to make to ensure we can2535adequately supply our ships and aircrafts in a protracted war?2536    Admiral Kilby. May I take a wag at this, sir?2537    So we need to have a distributed system. I have visited Red2538Hill. We are committed to doing the work we have agreed to do2539there, and we will continue to complete it by 2028 and all the2540remediation that happens there. But we need to find other sites2541and distribute them around the Indo-Pacific to make it hard for2542China. Right? We don't want to make it easy for them.2543    So those can be mobile things. They can be, like, tankers2544and supertankers. They could be fuel bladders that I have2545talked about with my good partner General Smith. But there are2546ways to resustain ourselves in a different manner that makes it2547hard for the adversary to confound us.2548    So we are committed to that. There are alternate sites we2549need to look at for those fuel storages in the Pacific as well.2550    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you, gentlemen.2551    And I yield back.2552    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentleman.2553    Mr. Diaz-Balart.25542555                       SIXTH-GENERATION FIGHTERS25562557    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.2558    And thank you, gentlemen, for what you do for our country.2559    Let me follow up on what Mr. Ellzey questioned about and2560talked about, whether it is fifth-generation, sixth-generation,2561manned or unmanned, because there are open reports out there2562saying that, you know, there could be a potential delay of2563fielding the aircraft needed for our carriers.2564    Do you feel confident that that is not going to be the2565case, regardless of what that mix is? And you have talked about2566that. Are you confident that, whatever decision is made, that2567you will be able to have the adequate platforms on our2568carriers----2569    Secretary Phelan. Uh----2570    Mr. Diaz-Balart [continuing]. With no delay--with no delay2571for that? Or are we looking at another delay because, you know,2572decisions have to be made?2573    Secretary Phelan. Are you asking in general, or are you2574asking with respect to a specific program?2575    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Well, I mean, again, without getting2576into--because we are here, right? But open sources talk about2577how we may be looking at, you know, having some pretty serious,2578you know, 3-year delays on fielding on what we may need to be2579fielding for our aircraft carriers.2580    Secretary Phelan. Look, I think, as I said earlier, we are2581still trying to sort through the appropriate force posture----2582    Mr. Diaz-Balart. I get that.2583    Secretary Phelan [continuing]. And appropriate balance2584between manned and unmanned----2585    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Yep.2586    Secretary Phelan [continuing]. And what that should look2587like.2588    I don't think we can ignore swarm drone technology and2589where it is going to go and how fast it is going to develop and2590what that means and what the implications are for the force in2591sixth-gen and fighters.2592    Currently, our carrier is, I think, very, very good. It is2593a mobile platform. It works very, very well. We will continue2594to develop that posture and that idea and be able to pivot2595hopefully as quick as possible.2596    So I think we are still analyzing and looking at it, but I2597do not believe we are going to do anything that would2598jeopardize the vulnerability of a carrier.2599    Mr. Diaz-Balart. All right.2600    Again, do you all feel confident about that, that we are2601not going to, I mean, you know, 2 or 3 years down the road,2602oops, you know, we don't have the capability, we don't have the2603platforms, whatever that mix may be, on our carriers that we2604need?2605    Admiral Kilby. Well, I guess, in a reality situation, to be2606clear, the sixth-gen fighter isn't going to come by January 1,26072027. It is going to take time to develop that----2608    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Right.2609    Admiral Kilby [continuing]. And build it into the future.2610    So the 3-year part is a delay if we started the program2611late, but it would deliver far into the future.2612    But we have to commit to that, because we are going to have2613aircraft carriers that are going to live in this contested2614environment. And that is my operational assessment, that we2615need an air wing of the future that does everything the2616Secretary just described for the reasons he described it, to2617pace the threat.2618    So, in 3 years, we are going to deliver the fleet we have2619to be as capable as it can be to counter the PRC, and then we2620need to build that future fleet moving forward.26212622                         BUDGET CONSIDERATIONS26232624    Ms. McCollum. Would the gentleman from Florida yield on a2625budget question?2626    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Of course I would.2627    Ms. McCollum. Thank you.2628    So it came up this morning that, in fiscal year 2025, we2629appropriated $453 million. The Navy doesn't have that under a2630contract. And now we are understanding OSD is trying to say2631that they don't want the $500 million in the reconciliation2632pulled--they want that pulled from the bill.2633    So I think that is why, budgetarily, we have some of the2634questions that we have.2635    So is it true that we don't have a contract signed? Is that2636imminent to be signed, or is that not going to be signed? And2637then has OSD asked for the $500 million to come out of the2638reconciliation bill? Because that is, in part, why you are2639getting these questions.2640    Secretary Phelan. The budget numbers are all over the2641place, to be perfectly honest. And we are sitting down and2642having meetings daily on different topics and different things.2643    I don't have a great answer for you as it relates to it. A2644number of different programs we are going through are being2645debated, just like we went through with the Virginia-class2646contract----2647    Ms. McCollum. I understand that, Mr. Secretary, but when we2648appropriate money, $453 million, and $25 million just for that,2649that is what that money is for, and Congress doesn't make it2650fungible for it to be used in other places.2651    So that is why you are getting the question. And we will2652follow up with you on that.2653    Secretary Phelan. Appreciate it.2654    Ms. McCollum. Thank you so much. I thank the gentleman from2655Florida.2656    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Of course. A pleasure to yield to the2657ranking member.2658    And I will get rid of some of the questions that I had2659because some of my time has--let me--you have taken questions2660about the direct energy----2661    Mr. Calvert. I will give the gentleman a couple minutes.26622663                  DIRECT ENERGY AND OTHER TECHNOLOGIES26642665    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Well, no, I will be very brief, Mr.2666Chairman.2667    Because I was going to talk about the sonobuoys, and that2668seems to be kind of a bright spot, I understand. Torpedoes, as2669well, is what I am hearing, that at least it is a step in the2670right direction? All right.2671    So, direct energy. Are you--and, Admiral, you mentioned2672that when you answered the question. And are you all--I have2673heard that, for example, the Israelis have some kind of new2674technology which is really, really interesting, potentially2675requires less energy, whatever it may be. Are you looking at2676other alternatives?2677    And, by the way--and, if you are, are you able to, if, in2678fact, there is a good alternative--I am not saying there is or2679there isn't--are you able to tap into, for example, if there is2680an alternative that the Israelis might have, to be able to tap2681into that?2682    Admiral Kilby. We want to get a workable technology to be2683effective in the maritime environment for counter-UAS and other2684things. I am open to all that technology and doing it rapidly.2685I have to work through the steps in the bureaucracy to do that,2686but I want to be open to it and exposed to it.2687    So, yes, there could be--high-powered microwave could be2688another technology force to be effective in that space. So all2689of that is what I call a ``renewable magazine,'' where I don't2690have to load weapons to do that.2691    So that is our focus, is to have an ability to defend our2692ships so we can use our high-powered or expensive munitions for2693offense, not defense.2694    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Yeah.2695    But, again, if there were an ally--and I am just saying the2696Israelis--do you have the ability to procure something from an2697ally on something like that?2698    Admiral Kilby. I probably don't, and I have to work through2699that. But I do believe that the time is right and the2700indications are that we can look at things differently and2701hopefully be more effective and agile. I am hopeful of that.2702    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Yeah. Just please keep us in mind if you2703think that there is something that we can do----2704    Admiral Kilby. Absolutely.2705    Mr. Diaz-Balart [continuing]. To help you be more flexible2706on things like that, if it makes sense, obviously.2707    Anyways, Mr. Chairman, you have been generous with my time.2708I thank you. I yield back.2709    Mr. Calvert. Thank you.2710    Mr. Valadao.27112712                       NAVAL AIR STATION LEMOORE27132714    Mr. Valadao. Thank you, Chairman.2715    Thank you to our guests for being here today, and I2716appreciate your service to our country.2717    Admiral Kilby, the Eisenhower--oh, I am sorry. Let me start2718off with the Lemoore question.2719    Admiral Kilby, how is the Navy addressing the combat search2720and rescue gap in the Pacific, particularly as aircraft crews2721face longer-range missions and self-supported recoveries2722without close support of a full Combat Search and Rescue Task2723Force, as seen in previous conflicts.2724    Admiral Kilby. I will have to take that question for the2725record and get back to you for some specifics.2726    I do believe this is in our contested logistics space, and2727we are looking at how we do this at scale with large numbers of2728people.2729    But I will take that question for the record and get back2730to you.27312732                         OPERATIONAL REPORTING27332734    Mr. Valadao. I appreciate that. I have been hearing that a2735little bit from my home district base.2736    And then another question for Admiral Kilby: The Eisenhower2737carrier strike group fired nearly 800 missiles during its2738deployment to the Red Sea, at a cost of about a billion2739dollars, to counter Houthi threats.2740    What is the Navy's plan to pursue more cost-effective and2741scalable methods to address these types of asymmetric threats?2742And how are you ensuring greater transparency in operational2743reporting going forward?2744    Admiral Kilby. Let me take the first part. I spoke about2745this a little bit, but we found ourselves in a positionwhere2746those captains did what they had to do to knock down a threat,2747and they used expensive missiles to do it. And they have done2748it and are continuing to do it quite effectively.2749    We want to provide them an alternative where they can2750defend their ships and other bases and allies in a cheaper,2751more effective method. So that could be things like a high-2752powered microwave or a high-velocity projectile, or a Coyote2753weapons system from Raytheon that we got from the Army and2754bolted on that system, or a Hellfire Longbow missile.2755    So those are things we are in process with experimenting on2756the forward strike group which will deploy next if effective;2757then we will procure them at scale.2758    But, ultimately, we want to get to the end state we just2759talked about, where I have a relatively renewable, rechargeable2760way to have terminal defense and have husbanded my magazines2761for that offensive capability.27622763                    LEVERAGE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE27642765    Mr. Valadao. All right. Well, thank you.2766    As the Marine Corps has looked to leverage artificial2767intelligence to speed up decision-making and optimize2768operations, how are you balancing rapid acquisition of these2769technologies with the need to keep the marines in control of2770final decisions? And how are you preparing marines to2771confidently challenge or override AI-generated recommendations2772when necessary?2773    General Smith. Yeah, sir, we are using our Marine Corps2774Systems Command and, frankly, we are using our Combat2775Development and Integration Command in Quantico to go after AI.2776We leverage all of the DOD AI, artificial intelligence,2777agencies.2778    We are always in control. There is always a human on the2779loop. There doesn't have to be a human in the loop; there has2780to be a human on the loop who can leverage the autonomy that is2781brought by an AI system. We have to just determine where the2782human is on the loop.2783    So I believe we are doing it. I believe that our Systems2784Command and our folks in Quantico keep us well-apprised of how2785we can leverage artificial intelligence for better decision-2786making, more rapid fielding, and, frankly, more rapid2787responses.2788    We don't need a human to direct the missile be fired. You2789need to have a human direct the system to fire at an inbound2790missile. When it is descending below 4,000 feet and closing in2791on your ship, the CIWS, the Vulcan Phalanx, has activated. It2792has permission already. There just has to be a human on the2793loop.27942795                   MODERNIZATION OF NAVY'S IT SYSTEMS27962797    Mr. Valadao. All right. Well, I appreciate that.2798    I will go back to Admiral Kilby.2799    Can you provide an update on the progress of Operation2800Cattle Drive, particularly regarding the modernization of the2801Navy's IT systems? How many vulnerable legacy systems have been2802decommissioned to date? And which key systems are currently2803being prioritized for transition and onboarding?2804    Admiral Kilby. I will have to take that question for the2805record. I am embarrassed to tell you I don't even know what2806Operation Cattle Drive is. So I will get back to you.2807    Mr. Valadao. Well, when we get down the food chain to where2808I am at, we have run out of questions to ask. Someday, I guess,2809when I am further up, I will get to ask something more----2810    Admiral Kilby. You get a gold star for stumping the2811Admiral.28122813                     MARINE CORPS ATTACK DRONE TEAM28142815    Mr. Valadao. All right. I have a couple more seconds here.2816Back to the Marine Corps.2817    With the establishment of the Marine Corps's Attack Drone2818Team and growing demand for low-cost, armed, first-person-view2819drones, how long will it take to fully equip all registered2820Marine Corps formations, and how quickly can they be fielded2821with compared to more traditional, costly platforms?2822    General Smith. I don't have a good answer for how long it2823will take. The answer is, we are not fielding them fast enough.2824    I was just visiting our Attack Drone Team a couple of weeks2825ago. What they are doing with low-cost detritables (ph) is2826stunning. They are, you know, turning hundreds of dollars of2827systems against thousands of dollars of inbound drones or2828against adversary troop formations.2829    So I don't have an answer for you, but what I can tell you2830is, we can't manufacture them fast enough. The Ukrainians are2831doing it on the cheap, and we are trying to keep ours on the2832cheap too. We are trying to make sure we build a Ford F-1502833pickup truck, not a Denali.2834    And so we are building these as fast as we can, but I would2835invite you, Congressman, down to our Attack Drone Team at2836Quantico to get you a firsthand view of what we are doing. We2837have invested the manpower and the brain power through our2838Marine Corps Systems Command.2839    Mr. Valadao. All right. Well, I appreciate that. Thank2840you----2841    General Smith. Sure.2842    Mr. Valadao [continuing]. Again, for your time.2843    Chairman, I yield back.2844    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentleman.2845    I recognize the ranking member for any closing comments.28462847                             ARCTIC IMPACTS28482849    Ms. McCollum. Well, I want to thank the three of you for2850being here today.2851    And, Mr. Secretary, A-plus. I know that you are very2852serious about getting back to us on the questions on personnel2853and the rest. I look forward to it.2854    And then I am going to submit some questions. Some of them2855actually have to do--are we back to calling it ``sea-level2856rise'' rather than ``climate change''? I am not sure--or2857``climate resilience''? But my questions are going to focus on2858what is happening in the Arctic and installations, permafrost,2859all those things that are going to affect what you can do up2860there.2861    And then the chairman and I, as you know, are very2862interested in what we can do as far as moving forward with2863doing some icebreakers.2864    And then, also, a question for the Marines on the Arctic. I2865want to make sure--being from the high north, the bold north,2866whatever you want to call Minnesota these days, I want to make2867sure that when you are out there participating in exercises2868that you have everything that you need to practice, do your2869mission, so that when you are out there doing it in real-time2870that you can come home safely with no frostbite included.2871    So, with that, Mr. Chairman, thank you so much.2872    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentlelady.2873    Before I conclude, I want to thank all of you--Secretary2874Phelan, Admiral Kilby, General Smith--for your testimony today.2875    And, obviously, all the subcommittee members are welcome to2876submit questions for the record. And I would hope that you can2877respond in a reasonable timeframe.28782879                           FIGHTER DECISIONS28802881    One thing I just want to close with is: Obviously, you2882heard a lot about the gen-six fighter. I think, you know, we2883have had air dominance since 1942, and we hope to keep it that2884way. Our men and women on the ground don't have to look up.2885Now, maybe, with drones, they are constantly going to look up,2886but certainly, with high-performance aircraft, being able to2887control the air is extremely important.2888    And I know you have some short-term decisions you have to2889make here pretty soon in order to meet the requirements of2890these contracts. But we have, as you know, well know, a fighter2891shortfall. I am not quite sure--we will probably put that2892question for the record--how big a shortfall we have.2893    And, obviously, the last couple of months, we have lost2894three F-18s. And that line is shutting down, as you well know.2895We have the last of the F-18s under construction. F-35s, we are2896not getting as many as we had hoped.2897    And, you know, we are going to be--we are well underway on2898the Enterprise and the Kennedy aircraft carriers, and so we are2899going to be flying off aircraft carriers for a long time to2900come.2901    So these are important decisions, and I know you are taking2902it seriously.2903    And we will submit some questions for the record.2904    Mr. Calvert. We certainly appreciate your being here today.2905    And, with that, we are adjourned.2906    [Whereupon, at 4:07 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]2907    [The information follows:]29082909    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]29102911             DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE APPROPRIATIONS FOR 202629122913                              ----------29142915                                             Tuesday, May 20, 2025.29162917                   NATIONAL GUARD AND RESERVES FORCES29182919                               WITNESSES29202921LIEUTENANT GENERAL LEONARD F. ANDERSON IV, COMMANDER, U.S. MARINE CORPS2922  RESERVE, DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY2923LIEUTENANT GENERAL ROBERT D. HARTER, CHIEF OF ARMY RESERVE AND2924  COMMANDING GENERAL, U.S. ARMY RESERVE COMMAND2925LIEUTENANT GENERAL JOHN P. HEALY, CHIEF OF AIR FORCE RESERVE,2926  DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE2927VICE ADMIRAL NANCY S. LACORE, CHIEF OF NAVY RESERVE, DEPARTMENT OF THE2928  NAVY2929GENERAL STEVEN S. NORDHAUS, CHIEF OF THE NATIONAL GUARD BUREAU,2930  DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE29312932                 Opening Statement of Chairman Calvert29332934    Mr. Calvert. I want to apologize. We had a meeting with the2935President of the United States this morning. So I was detained2936along with the rest of the committee. Hopefully, they will be2937coming in shortly, as the meeting is ongoing. We couldn't get2938out of there.2939    But now the Subcommittee on Defense will come to order.2940Today, the subcommittee will convene for an open oversight2941hearing to receive testimony on the National Guard and Reserve2942Forces. I am pleased to be joined by General Steven Nordhaus,2943Chief of the National Guard Bureau; Lieutenant General Robert2944Harter, Chief of the Army Reserve; Vice Admiral Nancy Lacore,2945Chief of Navy Reserve; Lieutenant General Leonard Anderson,2946Commander of the Marine Corps Reserve; and Lieutenant General2947John Healy, Chief of the Air Force Reserve.2948    Warm welcome to all of you, and thank you for years of2949distinguished service.2950    The men and women of the National Guard and Reserve Forces2951wear the uniform not only in times of war but in times of2952peace, recovery, and crisis. The Guard and Reserve are not2953simply backup forces. They are citizen soldiers who are2954neighbors, coworkers, constituents who stand ready to serve at2955a moment's notice. They fight overseas, but they also fight2956wildfires in California--I can attest to that--and respond to2957hurricanes and natural disasters throughout our country. And2958the National Guard serves with our partners around the world2959through State partnership programs to build critical capability2960for our allies, as we saw in Ukraine. Most importantly, they2961have also been on the front lines protecting our border to2962ensure the flow of deadly fentanyl is stopped.2963    What makes these servicemembers unique is not just their2964versatility but their dual commitment. They balance civilian2965careers and military obligations with extraordinary2966professionalism. But that balance is not without a cost. That2967is why we must ensure that the Guard and Reserve receive the2968same level of equipment, modernization, and training resources2969as their Active Duty counterparts. That will require smart2970sustained investment.2971    This committee has long supported the Guard and Reserves2972throughout the National Guard and Reserve equipment account,2973including 850 million in fiscal year 2025. I am interested in2974hearing from you what more can be done through that account to2975ensure that you can continue your great work. I also look2976forward to hearing from all of the witnesses on how we are2977thinking about innovation, taking calculated risk, and2978retaining talent to address growing career areas such as AI and2979cyber. What additional resources could Congress look at2980providing to our organizations to make them more successful?2981    Last, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on specific2982areas that equipment and modernization efforts would apply to2983your organization. Where do you see current gaps that are2984preventing the Guard and Reserve from being able to train and2985integrate with Active Duty Forces?2986    So, with that, I now recognize distinguished Ranking Member2987Ms. McCollum for her opening remarks.29882989                    Opening Remarks of Ms. McCollum29902991    Ms. McCollum. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And, Mr. Chair, I2992stated to our people testifying this morning that I will be2993leaving to go to Interior, which you and I both served on.2994Right after my opening statement, Mr. Case will be here in my2995stead. And I hope to be back.2996    So, good morning, again, to each and every one of you.2997Thank you for appearing before the committee. Thank you for2998your patience. As the chair said, you all play a pivotal role2999in the safety and security of our Nation. And I want to not3000only thank you but for each one of the service personnel under3001your charge for their dedication to our country in protecting3002the goals, objectives, the ideals of our Constitution.3003    As I have said in our previous meetings, fiscal year 20263004budget process is off to a very rough start. I think it has3005gone beyond rough. I think we are in more than rough shape now3006with the delays that we know are coming and knowing what the3007numbers are going to be. And this is because there is only four3008months left at the end of fiscal year 2025. And all that still3009hasn't been finalized yet. So this committee really doesn't3010know what foundation we are building on to get a budget done,3011as the chair has been asking us to do in June.3012    The skinny budget this year has been released, and there3013is, you know, rumors that full budget might not be released3014until June. And we were told yesterday soon. Well, soon is not3015soon enough. We have not been able to discuss in any detail the3016budget priorities. So, specifically, it is disappointing that3017we will be unable to discuss each of your priorities in3018programmatic details for fiscal year 2026 at a time when some3019programs are facing long delays and others are facing setbacks.3020So I hope each and every one of you will reach out to the chair3021and the members of this committee as soon as the details are3022released to share your priorities for the coming year.3023    Our National Guard and Reserve Components are called upon3024to support a variety of missions, including humanitarian3025missions, overseas operations, increased support to the3026southwest border. And the Guard, in particular, the State3027partnerships, one in which the chair and I were just at with3028other members of this committee in Lithuania--and State3029partnerships, we work, quote/unquote, the regular, traditional3030trips, but they were talking about how important the State3031partnerships were to them.3032    So, given the announcement that the number of troops3033deployed to the southern border mission will dramatically3034increase, I would like to better understand how it will impact3035each one of your units and how it will also impact the pace and3036schedule of other deployments and exercises. I would also like3037to understand how this mission may be affecting our troops'3038morale, readiness, and retention efforts. It would also be3039helpful if each of you would share the impacts of the3040continuing resolution on the current pace of operations for3041each of your services, including training.3042    And, with the announcement of the Secretary of the Army3043there will be force structure change in equipment modification,3044I would really like to hear from the Army Guard and Reserve how3045this might impact troops in the units and the equipment under3046your command.3047    And, finally, it would be helpful to understand the impact3048of the civilian workforce. You already do a lot on a3049shoestring. And these cuts could, and I believe will, further--3050your ability to execute your missions with the success that you3051deserve to have.3052    In serving our country, on top of managing the civilian3053job, in many cases supporting a family, this is one of highest3054forms of service our citizen soldiers do. They are truly3055putting their country above themselves. So I thank you all for3056your efforts today to give us the best information you have,3057although I fear it will lack the substance and information we3058need to do our budgeting. I look forward to a productive3059dialogue today.3060    I yield back.3061    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentlelady.3062    We will now begin with witness testimony.3063    Without objection, your full written testimony will be3064placed in the record. Please try to keep your remarks to 53065minutes or less.3066    General Nordhaus, we will begin with you for a brief3067summary of your remarks. General, you are recognized.30683069                 Summary Statement of General Nordhaus30703071    General Nordhaus. Thank you, Chairman Calvert, Ranking3072Member McCollum, and distinguished members of the subcommittee,3073thank you for the opportunity to testify on behalf of 433,0003074National Guardsmen and their families. Our National Guard is3075combat-ready, cost-effective, experienced, and dual-role both3076State and Federal like no other force. As a primary combat3077Reserve of the Army and the Air Force, the National Guard3078delivers unparalleled operational capacity with strategic3079depth. We represent 20 percent of the Joint Force and four3080percent of the budget. And, since 1636, our unique force has3081served in every one of our Nation's wars.3082    The National Guard's mission triad--homeland, warfight, and3083partnerships--aligns perfectly with the President's vision of3084peace through strength and the Secretary of Defense's3085priorities and restore the warrior ethos, rebuild our military,3086and reestablish deterrence.3087    In today's complex and dangerous environment, the Air3088National Guard is 33,000 guardsmen globally engaged serving in3089every combatant command. We are building elite units and combat3090power to deter adversaries and, when called upon, win our3091Nation's wars. We will prioritize our warfighters, champion3092duty-status reform, full-time support, military technician3093modernization, and improving medical access to build readiness.3094    In the homeland, we operate 15 of 16 aerospace alert sites3095defending our skies. We are postured to support the Golden Dome3096Initiative, leveraging our expertise in air and missile defense3097and unique capabilities and strategic missile warning and3098ground-based interceptors. We currently have 6,000 guardsmen3099securing our southern border.3100    Additionally, our counterdrug program disrupted 13 billion3101in illegal narcotics just last year. And, in disaster response,3102the National Guard responded to six hurricanes and 62,0003103wildfires supporting our communities, saving countless lives.3104    To sustain this ability, investments in foundational3105readiness accounts such as flying hours, facility sustainment,3106restoration, and modernization, weapon systems, sustainment,3107and base operating support are critical to rebuilding our3108military.3109    As a warfighting force, the National Guard provides 403110percent of the Army and 30 percent of the Air Force's3111operational forces. Our combat readiness was demonstrated on3112April 13, 2024, when D.C. National Guard forces neutralized3113enemy drones and missile defense in defense of Israel supported3114by Tennessee National Guard. This operation earned 113115distinguished flying crosses.3116    To continue to be interoperable, deployable, and integrated3117with the Joint Force, we must recapitalize and currently with3118our service into advanced platforms of helicopters, infantry3119squad vehicles, fighters, tankers, and cyber. These3120modernization efforts will help advance our warfighting3121capabilities, deter adversaries, and maximize the return on3122investment for our Joint Force and our taxpayers.3123    And, on partnerships, across nearly every ZIP Code, in 603124percent of the nation-states worldwide, we build trust, partner3125capacity, and resilience that strengthens national security.3126Locally, we collaborate with first responders across 2,5003127communities. Federally, we work with interagency partners3128countering drug trafficking and defeating cyber threats.3129    And, globally, our State Partnership Program, with 1153130partner nations, conducted over a thousand engagements in 2024.3131The National Guard's local-to-global partnerships ensures we3132are stronger together and stronger tomorrow. The National Guard3133is ready, lethal, and postured to ensure peace through strength3134and deliver decisive victory, if needed. With your continued3135support, we will transform at speed, will deliver an incredible3136value to America. Your National Guard is always ready and3137always there. Thank you.3138    [The information follows:]31393140    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]31413142    Mr. Calvert. Thank you.3143    General Harter, you are recognized.31443145                  Summary Statement of General Harter31463147    General Harter. Good morning, Chairman Calvert and3148Congressman Case, and distinguished members of the3149subcommittee, on behalf of the more than 180,000 soldiers and3150civilians and their family members that make up your Army3151Reserve, it is an honor for me to be here today, along with my3152wingman, Command Sergeant Major Greg Betty.3153    Simply put, your Army Reserve exist for one purpose: to3154deliver combat-ready soldiers and formations at time of need in3155support of the Nation. First and foremost, I want to thank you3156for your continued support of our warrior citizens. NGREA3157specifically makes a tremendous difference for the Army Reserve3158as we look to keep pace with modernization efforts. We are3159thankful for the $131 million appropriated this year. NGREA3160drives combat readiness for our formations. And our combat3161readiness is critical.3162    During a recent mobilization tabletop exercise, Army3163planners highlighted the 99 percent of all Army bulk fuel3164transportation support resides in the United States Army3165Reserve--99 percent. We are not a strategic formation. We are3166an operational force by design and necessity. We are the3167enabling force for the joint fight. To that end, nearly 9,0003168Army Reserve soldiers are currently deployed globally across3169all combatant commands, including over 700 soldiers supporting3170operations on our southern border.3171    Our challenges have been relatively consistent over the3172last several years, with our largest problem areas being3173inadequate manning, aging facilities that don't support our3174training requirements, and poor equipment readiness. We are3175working hard to help ourselves.3176    Regarding manning, we are working with the Army--they3177recruit for us--to increase accessions and hold recruiters to3178account.3179    We are driving on retention, implementing health and3180holistic fitness programs across our footprint and revising3181processes for more deliberate and improved career management3182for our part-time TPU force.3183    On the facility front, we are thankful for our military3184construction and sustainment dollars. But we simply are not3185resourced adequately to maintain or sustain our aging Reserve3186centers.3187    As a result, we are relooking our stationing model with a3188focus on investing our precious facility dollars and locations3189that support recruiting, retention, and allow for readiness3190producing training.3191    Finally, maintaining our equipment is hard. Nearly 803192percent of our equipment is stored at equipment concentration3193sites located across the country. These sites are funded to3194just 50 percent of our full time mechanic requirement. To3195offset this challenge, we have initiated a pilot program to3196store and maintain critical fleets at four locations in Europe3197and in the Pacific. And we have remissioned our internal3198support maintenance companies to conduct their annual training3199at our centralized sites, turning wrenches, fixing our3200equipment, and improving readiness.3201    There are three areas that I would ask for your continued3202support: First, continued support of our Reserve Pay Accounts,3203RPA, despite our end-strength challenges. We are aggressively3204managing our people and seeing increased participation rates at3205our battle assemblies. RPA makes a difference.3206    Continued support of NGREA. NGREA allows us to procure3207modernized equipment that drives lethality. We only receive3208about 1 percent of the Army's procurement budget. So NGREA has3209an outsized impact on our ability to procure modernized3210equipment. Over the past three years, we have purchased 2,3003211mission command systems, significantly improving our3212formation's ability to communicate effectively on the3213battlefield.3214    Finally, we need consistent and predictable funding. Army3215Reserve soldiers balance civilian careers with military3216commitments, and continuing resolutions force us to delay,3217curtail, or cancel training events. Predictability is essential3218for our soldiers, their family members, and their civilian3219employers. So I ask for your continued support.3220    Again, thank you for the opportunity to be here, and I look3221forward to answering your questions.3222    [The information follows:]32233224    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]32253226    Mr. Calvert. Thank you, General.3227    Admiral Lacore, you are recognized.32283229                  Summary Statement of Admiral Lacore32303231    Admiral Lacore. Good morning, Chairman Calvert, Congressman3232Case, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. For 1103233years, the Navy Reserve has provided strategic depth for the3234fleet to deter aggression and, when required, to prevail in3235combat. We are globally a deployable and operationally relevant3236force integrated into operations on the southern border and3237filling critical gaps at sea.3238    Thank you for the opportunity to address you on this force3239of which I am extremely proud. And with me today is Force3240Master Chief Tracy Hunt, who, in keeping with his title, has3241been a forceful advocate for Navy Reserve sailors. He will3242retire in July after 36 years of exceptional service.3243    Over the past few months, Reserve C-130 crews transported3244thousands of pounds of ordinates into the Red Sea fight,3245keeping our ships on station, intercepting Houthi missiles,3246conducting precision strikes, and safeguarding global commerce.3247When the fleet needs logistics, whether to deliver firepower or3248staying power, the Navy Reserve answers the call.3249    Warfighting readiness is priority one for the Navy Reserve.3250As such, every drill weekend, annual training, exercise and3251training dollar is focused on generating warfighting readiness.3252It is an all-hands effort underwritten by our sailors,3253civilians, and their families.3254    In April, the Navy Reserve officially met our authorized3255end strength for the first time since 2020, resulting in an3256exceptional recruiting effort combined with high retention.3257Today, 15,000 of our nearly 58,000 reservists are in Active3258Duty orders serving in every AOR. We deliver half the Navy's3259intelligence and expeditionary combat capability.3260    And our Reserve logistic support wing flying the C-40 and3261C-130 operates 24/7, 365, in INDOPACOM, EUCOM, and CENTCOM. We3262are investing our warfighters because they are our strategic3263advantage. They bring tactical expertise and civilian3264experience that adds unique value to our force and expands the3265Navy's capacity. We deliver the training, resources, and3266quality-of-life initiatives that enable Reserve sailors to3267maintain their warfighting readiness, and we are doing it with3268a clear focus to deliver a force that is ready on day one.3269    The Navy is designed to operate as a distributed maritime3270force, which demands an agile supply chain. The Navy Reserve3271answers that demand. As I shared with many of you individually,3272the C-130 Tango Hercules operated exclusively by the Reserve,3273the Navy's only long-range intra-theater airlift for oversized3274cargo. This capability is in high demand from fleet commanders,3275particularly in the Indo-Pacific, playing a critical role in3276the contested logistics necessary to sustain a maritime fight.3277    Last year, Navy Reserve airlift transported more than327880,000 passengers and 20 million pounds of cargo, sustaining3279carrier strike groups in every theater, delivering salvage3280teams, resupplying critical munitions, and providing repair3281parts to keep F-35s flying in the Pacific and Aegis destroyers3282on station in the Red Sea.3283    However, our C-130 fleet is aging and lacks the3284survivability necessary to operate in a contested environment.3285Recapitalizing with a KC-130 Juliet is critical to ensuring3286that we can effectively and safely carry out the critical3287intra-theater logistics missions for the fleet today, in 2027,3288and well beyond that.3289    We are grateful for the strong bipartisan alignment on this3290priority. NGREA is an essential appropriation for the Navy3291Reserve, and we are grateful for it, but we need more. Our3292requirements greatly exceed the Navy's percentage in NGREA. We3293would benefit from a more balanced apportionment in NGREA3294because the Pacific site will undoubtedly stress the maritime3295services.3296    Chairman Calvert, Congressman Case, and members of the3297committee, thank you for your support of the Navy Reserve and3298the sailors, civilians, families, and employers who make our3299mission possible. We remain committed to deliver what the fleet3300requires precisely when the fleet needs it. I look forward to3301your questions.3302    [The information follows:]33033304    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]33053306    Mr. Calvert. Thank you, Admiral.3307    Next General Anderson, you are recognized.33083309                 Summary Statement of General Anderson33103311    General Anderson. Good morning, Chairman Calvert,3312Congressman Case, and distinguished members of the3313subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify on3314behalf of the Commandant of the Marine Corps about your Marine3315Corps Reserve. I am honored to be here with my senior enlisted3316leader, four-star Major Edward Mota, and my Command Master3317Chief Michael Mussett, who will retire next month after 323318years of service.3319    The Marine Corps Reserve is a critical element of a total3320force, it is essential to meeting current operational demands3321while enabling the deliberate modernization of the active3322component. We serve as a scalable, ready-force provider,3323reinforcing all three Marine Expeditionary Forces. We3324prioritize by battalion-level deployments but retain the3325flexibility to deploy smaller, mission-tailored elements to our3326most emerging requirements.3327    It has been a busy year since my last testimony. The3328Reserve Marines are increasingly assuming operational missions3329that give active units the time and space to retain and3330modernize appropriately. And this balance, between crisis3331response and future force design, is fundamental to our service3332strategy.3333    Initiatives like the Littoral Craft Companies exemplify how3334we our integrating new platforms and capabilities into Reserve3335formations while supporting experimentation and innovation. But3336the time is not on our side. From a Reservist perspective, the33372027 Davidson window is only 72 drills and 30 days of annual3338training away. That is all the time we have to build and3339maintain the lethality required to maintain--meet the pacing3340threat. Every repetition counts.3341    Every dollar matters. Our training must be deliberate. And3342our Reserve Marines, already balancing civilian careers and3343family commitments, must have access to modern platforms and3344realistic training to be lethal on day one. Continuing3345resolutions and budget uncertainty introduce challenges to3346these opportunities.3347    We thank the subcommittee for its continued support,3348especially through the National Guard and Reserve Equipment3349Account. For the Marine Corps Reserve, NGREA is not just a3350funding line, it is a warfighting requirement. These funds3351allow us to field and sustain the platforms, communication3352systems, and equipment that Marines need to train as they3353fight. NGREA enables Reserve Forces to integrate with active3354forces by quipping them with modern capabilities at pace. And,3355with a 99 percent execution rate across recent fiscal years,3356the Marine Corps Reserve has proven its ability to execute with3357discipline and speed while maintaining our service's clean3358audit.3359    The commandant has made clear that fully leveraging the3360Reserve Component is one of our top priorities. Reserve Marines3361bring unmatched depth, resilience, and asymmetric advantage to3362the fight. With your continued support, they will remain not3363only a force in readiness but a force in consequence. Thank3364you, and I look forward to your questions.3365    [The information follows:]33663367    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]33683369    Mr. Calvert. Thank you, General. General Healy, you are3370recognized.33713372                   Summary Statement of General Healy33733374    General Healy. Chairman Calvert, Congressman Case,3375distinguished members of the subcommittee, on behalf of the337667,000 members, men and women of the Air Force Reserve, it is3377an honor for me to be here today with my senior enlisted3378advisor, Chief Master Sergeant Israel Nunez.3379    The Air Force Reserve embodies warrior ethos through3380operational capability, strategic depth, and search capacity3381across every corps mission both overseas and here at home. With3382a 72-hour response time proven, we are always ready. Whether it3383is combat operations, hurricane hunting, or fighting wildfires3384from the air, we are supporting Federal, State, and local3385agencies, ensuring the safety of our citizens here at home.3386    From those citizens, we recruit and train from the best our3387Nation has to offer, holding them accountable to uncompromising3388standards. If properly resourced, citizen airmen are the cost-3389efficient solution to the DAF, providing more Air Force. We3390operate our installations 28 days a month with just 25 percent3391of our force. Compared to our Active Duty counterparts, we3392deliver mission-ready airmen for only 30 cents on the dollar.3393We are efficient. We are accessible. We are experienced, and we3394are lethal.3395    The Flying Hour Program is at the foundation of our mission3396readiness and lethality. However, the $145 million O&M mark in3397the 4-year CR left us $26 million in the hole. Flying our3398required plan will likely exhaust program funding by early3399September, putting aircrew proficiency at risk.3400    Our fiscal year 2026 budget request outlines flying-hour3401requirements to train agile, combat-ready aircrew. The best3402operators need the best equipment, though. So thank you for the3403$132 million in NGREA this year. But their readiness still3404remains at risk.3405    Disproportionate Air Force Reserve legacy aircraft3406divestment without program recapitalization fails to provide3407equipment parity. By 2030, our cap portfolio will decrease from3408a 20-year average of nine percent to just three percent. This3409represents a 44 percent loss in operational surge capacity,3410sidelining the world's most experienced title 10 fighters.3411    Concurrent and proportional fielding provides significant3412return on investment through affiliation and retention. But3413that is not happening. Modernizing platform drives the DOD's3414competitive advantage to deter Chinese aggression. Strong3415international relationships underpin deterrence.3416    In the past year, we have established the Reserve Allies3417and Partners Program, RAPP, to formalize international3418partnerships and conducted 28 bilateral engagements with 193419partner nations. We are building partner capacity through key3420leader and mil-to-mil engagements, deliberately planned3421exercises, and force development.3422    Our allies' and partners' interest in the Air Force Reserve3423integrated base defense and a professionalized NCO corps helps3424build successful global partnerships and serves as a powerful3425deterrent.3426    Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today3427and for your continued support of the Air Force Reserve, our3428citizen airmen and their families, and I look forward to your3429questions.3430    [The information follows:]34313432    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]34333434                      EQUIPPING THE NATIONAL GUARD34353436    Mr. Calvert. Thank you, General. And I will start the3437questioning, and then we will go down through the members.3438    As we all know, the California Guard, as I mentioned in my3439opening testimony, responded admirably earlier this year to3440devastating and tragic wildfires, as the Guard does throughout3441the United States, the respective Guard units. Given the3442increasing frequency of domestic disasters--and we have seen a3443substantial number of them just this last weekend--and civil3444support missions, is the Guard adequately equipped and trained3445to meet the growing State-level demands without compromising3446Federal readiness? So I think I will start with you, General3447Nordhaus.3448    General Nordhaus. Chairman, thank you for the question. And3449I was able to land out at the California--right prior to the3450first MAF taken off for the L.A. Wildfires. And so the National3451Guard, as you know, is 430,000 strong, and across the board,3452are 50 States, three territories, and the District of Columbia.3453We get after the mission set, whether it is in the homeland or3454overseas. Currently, we have 34,000 engaged globally, which is3455less than 10 percent. So, as we look at the force, we are3456capable of being able to meet the needs within the States and3457around the globe as needed.3458    Certainly, we need help as we look at our foundational3459readiness accounts, flying hours, weapons systems,3460sustainments, facility sustainment restoration, modernization,3461and base operating support. So, as we continue to look to those3462things, to be able to make sure they are right so that we can3463build readiness, that every dollar you put in the National3464Guard gets after readiness not only in the homeland but around3465the world.3466    Mr. Calvert. Any other comment?3467    General Healy. Just with regard to the wildfire fights,3468too, I mean, it is a unified effort between the Guard and the3469Reserve our 302nd Airlift wing also, actually out of sequence,3470so out of the normal training cycle, participated in getting3471rid of those L.A. Wildfires. So great team effort on that, both3472the Reserve and the Guard, sir.3473    General Harter. Mr. Chairman, I would just offer that the3474Army Reserve, we partner with our Guard teammates. We have3475immediate response authority where we can help in local3476communities. I think what is what critical on the equipping3477side is that a lot of our equipment is that enabling3478capability. We call it critical to use--water purification,3479engineer equipment, and so forth, logistics equipment. We used3480a lot of our engineers to respond to a hurricane in North3481Carolina, effects of the storm. So continued funding of NGREA3482and procurement dollars assist us in that effort. Over.34833484                          COUNTERDRUG PROGRAM34853486    Mr. Calvert. Thank you. Another quick question, as you all3487know--and this has been a bipartisan effort on all of us is on3488this counterdrug program, and we certainly appreciate the3489results that have been delivered so far. Congress provided 2953490million to the Guard counterdrug program for fiscal year 20253491to provide funding for training and operations and also3492provided an additional 26 million for the National Guard3493Counterdrug School Program to provide necessary education to3494support combating and drug trafficking efforts.3495    General Nordhaus, how can the National Guard best utilize3496these resources to address this fentanyl crisis, as we are--3497obviously it is terribly killing hundreds of thousands of3498Americans.3499    General Nordhaus. Mr. Chairman, thank you for highlighting3500this and incredible situation that we have to make sure we are3501laser-focused on all the time. And I want to thank Congress for3502all funds that go into Counterdrug. Each year the Counterdrug3503Program is across the States, and they build those Counterdrug3504Programs to use every dollar to get after helping local law3505enforcement and others take drugs off the street.3506    As I mentioned in my opening statement, last year, $133507billion was credited with some help from the National Guard in3508taking that off the street. And I can only imagine how many3509lives that saved and families that were able to not have3510fentanyl or another drug hurt them. 67,000 local law3511enforcement agents were also trained through the five3512counterdrug schools through the funding that the Counterdrug3513Program.3514    We can never take our eye off the ball. We have to keep3515getting better each year. We do lessons learned. We continue to3516take those lessons learned and push those out across the 54.3517And then, each year, we are looking at where the dynamics are3518changing and where drugs are being pushed from one--maybe one3519State to another State, or there is more pressure. And then we3520move that money to make sure that we get the right resource to3521the right place at the right time.3522    Mr. Calvert. Thank you. Any other comments?3523    Mr. Case.35243525                         ISSUES WITH THE BUDGET35263527    Mr. Case. Thank you, Mr. Chair.3528    And, to each of you, thank you for your service and for3529that of the hundreds of thousands that you represent.3530    I want to focus on what Ranking Member McCollum said in her3531opening statement. She said, quote/unquote, that the fiscal3532year 2026 budget process is off to a very rough start. And it3533could get a lot rougher as we look out over the budget horizon.3534And she said that there are rumors that we won't get a full3535budget until June. There is also the concern that we would be3536required in this subcommittee and full committee to mark up3537before any effective oversight of the full budget. And there3538are even some concerns that some in the administration would3539prefer that the normal budget process not occur this year and3540move into another CR, which I think and hope we would all agree3541would be a disaster.3542    And so, from our perspective, we are, in the discharge of3543our oversight responsibilities, essentially having to shoot in3544the dark at oversight right now and do predictive oversight3545without knowing exactly what we are overseeing. And so that3546forces us into trying to get the information from you that you3547are in the middle of deliberating inside the Department of3548Defense right now and to understand what the issues are that3549you are facing with a CR. Because, as we stand here today,3550since we are in a full year of CR, we are in a situation where3551essentially the information and the decisions that we are being3552asked to make right now are two years old. That is the last3553time we did effective oversight on a decision that was actually3554reflected in a full budget.3555    So I am just going to go right down the line here and ask3556each of you: What are the principal issues that you are dealing3557with right now in the budget that we can start to get a handle3558on before we have a full budget, before we have full3559information, and especially if we do not have the opportunity3560to provide full oversight before we have to make major3561decisions in this subcommittee?3562    General Nordhaus, what is the biggest issue you are facing3563today?3564    General Nordhaus. Congressman, first I would like to thank3565Congress for adding some adds in the yearlong CR with SPP,3566NGREA, and our full-time mannings to be able to use those in3567fiscal year 2025. Certainly, on the readiness accounts, the3568foundation, it is every part of readiness. So every dollar you3569put in that we can put a mechanic out on flight line to be able3570to get helicopters or the machines that we operate to get after3571readiness is critical. Weapon system sustainment as well on3572parts, those dollars matter. So whatever we can do to increase3573that capability along those lines.3574    And then, on the modernization, as we talked about fighters3575and tankers and cyber, those are all critical as we go into the3576future along with what we are doing with the Army.3577    And then, lastly, for our warfighters, there are things3578that we can do in the future, whether it is duty-status reform,3579full-time support, or mil-tech modernization that can have a3580big impact as we go forward into the next year.3581    Thanks, Congressman.3582    Mr. Case. Admiral Lacore. Biggest budget issues you are3583facing right now.3584    Admiral Lacore. Thank you, sir. Congressman, I think the3585biggest issue for us related to people is the predictability in3586being able to get Reservists on orders. It impacts not just3587morale, but it impacts readiness. We are not able--you know,3588they can't commit to their civilian employer, and they take3589time off from their civilian employer, and then we can't come3590through with the order. So that is a big one as far as the3591people go.3592    As far as equipment, we are very grateful for the adds we3593have gotten in 2024 and 2025 for the C-130 because, as you3594heard, C-130 is our number one equipment priority. And we are3595behind glide slope for that recapitalization effort. So those3596are our biggest impacts.3597    Mr. Case. Thank you. I am sorry I am doing this fast, but I3598need to get through all of you. General Harter?3599    General Harter. Yes, sir, the biggest issue really to the3600Reserve Pay Accounts. So that runs across our formation as far3601as getting our soldiers' orders cut, getting them to training3602exercises. We have some big training exercises coming up. We3603are looking at how do we manage that. And then it gets to Class3604Nine repair parts for our equipment because that is all3605budgeted for and how do we order that? So those are the two3606biggest issues, followed closely by military construction and3607sustainment of our facilities. That is what we are looking3608close.3609    Mr. Case. General Anderson.3610    General Anderson. Yes, thank you, sir. I echo the thanks on3611including NGREA in this year's CR. That was certainly3612beneficial. But, for us, we had to reduce our reenlistment3613incentives for the remainder of this fiscal year as the number3614one impact.3615    And I think, second, as we lose our operational funds, not3616only for the Reserve component but on the Active Component in3617the Marine Corps, our exercises are minimized, which gives us3618less time to train with our Active Component Forces like we are3619going to do when we are in the First Island Chain.3620    Mr. Case. Thank you.3621    General Healy.3622    General Healy. Sir, echoing much of what has been already3623said, the predictability and stability of being able to pay our3624participants is one of the biggest factors. With the O&M3625accounts, as I mentioned in my opening statement, we are going3626to be $26 million short of flying out or flying hours this3627year. So we are working trying to figure that out.3628    In addition, quarterly authority during a CR doesn't work3629well with weapon system sustainment when you got large ticket3630items, like $62 million to put a B-52 into periodic depot3631maintenance. So those continue to be challenges as we go3632forward.3633    Mr. Case. Thank you very much.3634    Mr. Calvert. And let me concur with Mr. Case. None of us3635like CRs. And so, obviously, we are looking toward the3636administration to get us numbers as quickly as possible. Any3637advice that you can give to folks, that would be appreciated.3638    Mr. Diaz-Balart.36393640                        HOMESTEAD AIR FORCE BASE36413642    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. This3643has been helpful.3644    And, to echo what the chairman said, we hate CRs. They are3645devastating.3646    Let me first start by--to General Healy, Homestead Air3647Force Base. You know it well. You know, we have state-sponsored3648terrorism just 90 miles from the United States. We have all of3649the humanitarian issues that continue to arise in the3650hemisphere. And, yet, the airplanes there are--we have, what,365128 Block 30s that my staff actually reminded me that they first3652rolled off a production line the same year that IBM unveiled3653its first laptop. And it is insane.3654    And so is there a formalized plan for replacing those F-16s3655at Homestead Air Force Base? And, if not, what do we need to do3656to try to kind of move that in the right direction, General.3657    General Healy. Well, sir, I appreciate the question. And3658Homestead has certainly got a place in my heart. We are going3659to plan on using that for our first deployable combat wing. The3660men and the women of the 482nd Fighter Wing are leading the3661charge for the Air Force Reserve getting after that.3662    With regards to the plan, the current program on record3663only has the F-16s pre-Blocks, as you mentioned Block 30s, only3664funded through fiscal year 2027. There is no program of record3665beyond that to date.3666    With regard to how we move forward and how we get beyond3667that, typically, I would recommend and advocate speaking to3668Congress, but I am doing that right now. So we are looking3669towards--we are trying to put everything we can towards getting3670F-35 potentially as a recapped item. But, as I mentioned in my3671opening comments as well, we are systematically being3672nonreinvested for divested aircraft. So anything that we can do3673in order to show the value associated with the Air Force3674Reserve--we manage our bases. Essentially, as I mentioned as3675well, you know, we can do 20 percent of the capability of the3676Air Force right now for only three percent of the cost. We can3677manage these at a cheaper rate than the Air Force, sir.36783679                              RECRUITMENT36803681    Mr. Diaz-Balart. And I will follow up with you, Mr.3682Chairman, about that at a later date. Let me also just now,3683though, with the time that I have, another question to all of3684you. And the issue is recruitment. And how are you all doing3685with recruitment? Is there something that we could be doing to3686assist in recruitment? And we already heard about your kind of3687financial crunches. But what else could we do, and how are you3688doing generally? Whoever wants to--if you all want to kind of3689just briefly touch on that.3690    General Healy. Sir, from a recruiting perspective from the3691Air Force Reserve, we put quite a lot of resources into it.3692And, as a result, last year, we met our recruiting goals and3693exceeded them this year. This year, we are currently producing3694roughly 2.6 recruits per recruiter, which is actually the best3695in Air Force right now, exceeding the 1.9 per month that the3696Active Duty is doing.3697    We fully expect that we are going to exceed our recruiting3698goal for this year. The challenge for us is the retention rate.3699We are about 1 percent under our retention rate. And that is3700going to get down to the wire with regards to whether or not we3701meet end strength.3702    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Anybody else want to?3703    General Harter. Congressman.3704    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Yes, sir.3705    Mr. Harter. Thanks for the question. Our challenge in the3706Army Reserve is the Active Army recruits for us. We are part of3707the United States Army recruiting enterprise gets after it for3708us. We provided roughly 1,400 Army Reserve AGRs to support that3709effort. And, while they are making big strides with CAMPA 13710recruiting, they have continued to miss our number. They are3711delivering about 70 percent. And what that equates to is we are3712currently short about 9,500 privates. And what I tell folks is3713that is equal to about 60 truck companies.3714    And so we are working on our bonus program, and we are3715working closely with USAREC and getting the branding out. It is3716a wicked hard problem to recruit for the Army Reserve, but,3717again, we are working with our Army teammates to get after3718that.3719    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Thank you.3720    Yes, sir.3721    General Nordhaus. Congressman, the National Guard continues3722to see historic levels of recruiting and retention. The Army3723National Guard, when I came into the job seven months ago, was3724focused on getting to 325,000. We are at 328,000 guardsmen. On3725the Air National Guard side, we are at 105,000, which is our3726funded strength. And we are going to continue to do well3727through the rest of the year, and our retention continues to be3728strong.3729    A lot of those things deals with how we are getting after3730commands, the bonus criteria, and payments that we are doing,3731Army recruiter master trainers, and then also working to get3732our folks through MEPS as fast as we can.3733    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Okay.3734    General Nordhaus. We are going to keep our foot on the3735accelerator because we want to keep and retain the best3736warfighters out there.3737    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Yes, please.3738    Admiral Lacore. Thank you for this question. Navy Reserve3739hit end strength last month, and we anticipate being about 6003740personnel above end strength. And that is the first time since37412020. And we attribute a lot of that to our recruiting effort3742by which we established a Navy Reserve recruiting Reserve3743command. So we own the prior service mission now. So we are3744responsible for recruiting folks off Active Duty----3745    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Great.3746    Admiral Lacore [continuing]. Which has gone a long way.3747    Mr. Diaz-Balart. If the chairman will allow just a few more3748seconds.3749    Mr. Calvert. Yes.3750    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Ten seconds.3751    General Anderson. Thanks to success of Marine recruiting,3752we have maintained our numbers. Even through COVID, as you3753know, and Marine Reserves are no different. We are 5- to 6003754over our NDAA for this fiscal year. We are healthy both in3755recruiting and retention. And part of that is due to the3756support from Active Duty recruiters. So where could we get3757help? Again, the CR affecting the budget for our recruiters has3758certainly hurt us this year.3759    Mr. Diaz-Balart. And thank you, Chairman.37603761                               PAY RAISES37623763    Mr. Calvert. On that subject real quick, we just did a3764recent pay raise for E-1, C-4s. Was that helpful?3765    General Healy. Yes, sir.3766    General Nordhaus. Yes, sir.3767    Mr. Calvert. Ms. Kaptur.37683769                  NEED FOR TECHNICIANS AND MAINTAINERS37703771    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome. You are3772always welcome here on both sides of the aisle. And we are very3773proud of you, and we are proud of your service and those under3774your command, your service to our country and to liberty.3775    I wanted to--all of us come from different parts of the3776country. The gentleman to my left, Hawaii. So that is Pacific,3777right? And the gentleman to my right, Texas. Well, I am Great3778Lakes. And we each look at the world in a different way based3779on where we come from.3780    But I was struck by your testimonies--and I read them all3781last night--how many of you mentioned in one way or another the3782shortage and need for technicians and those that actually work3783and create the new technologies of the future.3784    And, General Nordhaus, when we spoke recently, I was struck3785by something you said related to the Guard base in my region,3786180th Fighter Wing you know well, is because of the3787maintainers--you said, if I am quoting you correctly--that the3788unit scored as high as it did. Is that a correct quote? Am I3789quoting you correctly on that?3790    General Nordhaus. Yes, ma'am. I believe the National Guard3791has incredible maintainers because of the experience that they3792have, how they work together as a team. But, yes, the 180th3793Fighter Wing certainly has incredible maintainers.3794    Ms. Kaptur. Well, the reason I say I am going to ask each3795of you, in terms of recruitment as well as the situation our3796country faces--we can't produce airplanes on time; we can't get3797our ships built on time; each of you faces challenges within3798the units that you command--what programs do you have or could3799have that would better work with local assets, be they3800educational or otherwise, to help us create a stronger stream3801of people who build and maintain? There is a program called3802Star Base--some of you may be familiar with. I am not saying3803that is a good program that the military has, but it is3804something that started.3805    What other programs exist within the military that could be3806a better funnel to move people into these professions that are3807so desperately needed both by the military and the private3808sector?3809    We have a serious shortage of technicians and mechanically3810trained people. We see it in our region every day, even though3811we try. Is there anything any of you is aware of within your3812branch that might be expanded to help in this way? And I am3813talking about younger people--perhaps 13--12, 13 to 18--that3814could link to local organizations. What within the military3815exists or could be expanded?3816    General Anderson. Ma'am, if I could, locally near my3817headquarters in New Orleans, we have the New Orleans Military3818Maritime Academy. It is 100 percent Marine Corps JROTC school3819in New Orleans with over 900 students that bring in and3820introduce the trades early on to get them interested in that.3821    Because, to your point, ma'am, they make that decision3822early on in high school, which route they might want to take.3823And, even though they are not joining, they may not join the3824Marine Corps, they are interested in the maritime industry and3825the trades. Some of them go to Coast Guard and other services3826as well. But that is a program at least early on that we have3827got in the Marine Corps.3828    General Harter. Ma'am.3829    Ms. Kaptur. Excuse me, just one second, General. Who has3830the lead on that in that area?3831    General Anderson. Ma'am, the school, it is a privately run3832school. But the Marine Corps JROTC, the Junior Reserve Officer3833Training Corps, it is funded by the Marine Corps, by the3834service. We provide uniforms, boots, you know, all the basic3835things for the young students there at the school.3836    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you. Yes, General?3837    General Harter. Yes, ma'am. We use JROTC as well to3838navigate into that youth population and familiarize them with3839opportunities in the United States Army Reserve. I will tell3840you just like in Toledo, though, in Army Reserve, we have our3841private-public partnership program where we reach out into3842communities, and we try to, orient, you know, youth that want3843to join to opportunities in the Army Reserve but specifically3844in the technician area.3845    We are doing a hiring fair actually in Toledo in September3846where we will illustrate, ``Hey, here are some of the3847technician mechanic jobs we need. We are only funded to 503848percent of requirement. We have a lot of shortages. You can3849join the Army Reserve, become a great American soldier. We will3850get you trained up.''3851    So we will continue to drive on that.3852    Ms. Kaptur. We will follow up on that.3853    Yes, General.3854    General Healy. Junior JROTC just the same. That is run by3855the Active Duty Air Force Air Education and Training Command.3856And then it gets down to the individual bases that we are at3857for community outreach within any programs that they have in3858the local community, ma'am.3859    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you.3860    General Nordhaus. Congresswoman Kaptur, one thing I did in3861a previous job down at CONR First Air Force was Civil Air3862Patrol. And so that is another thing--that civil Air Patrol3863goes across from the Air Force. And then, as you know, our3864guardsmen and from each of Reserve Component here, we work out3865in the community. So I think it is about getting the word out3866across the board about what we do and how we do it and then3867continue to recruit and retain the best and the brightest.3868    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you.3869    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentlelady.3870    Mr. Womack.38713872                       STATE PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM38733874    Mr. Womack. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.3875    And, to the Generals, Admiral, thank you for being here3876today.3877    One of my favorite topics of the Reserve Components, and it3878is no surprise that, when issues regarding the Guard and3879Reserve come up in this subcommittee, that a lot of heads look3880in my direction because of my experience down through the years3881with the National Guard.3882    I want to ask General Nordhaus about the State Partnership3883Program. We have a lot of them scattered around the country. I3884think we have 18 down in the Indo-Pacific region. Arkansas just3885recently had a big exercise with Guatemala not terribly long3886ago.3887    I personally believe these SPP programs are just really3888important. And it is a two-way street. It is good for the3889State. It is also good for the host nation.3890    What are your thoughts about expansion, and what budget3891constraints could impact our ability, particularly as we look3892to the Indo-Pacific region?3893    General Nordhaus. Congressman, thank you for the incredible3894question. And, to funding across the board, I want to thank3895Congress for State Partnership funding.3896    As we look to the future, right now, we have 115 partners3897around the globe. Sixty percent of the nations are partnered3898with a State partner. And, last year, we did a thousand3899engagements that one percent of the theater security3900cooperation budget.3901    Like you talked about, whether it is an INDOPACOM. I just3902recently went out to Timor-Leste with Rhode Island. Their3903partnership is only three years old. And they are with the3904latest democracy on the planet in Timor-Leste, and that3905relationship was incredibly strong. And the President and the3906Minister of Defense all thanked me repeatedly for that3907incredible relationship.3908    Then I met with Hawaii and Guam, when I was over there, and3909also saw their incredible partnership with the Philippines. And3910so, as we look to the future, every time we get asked to3911partner with another nation through the State Department and3912through the combatant commands, multiple States are asking to3913be that State partner. So I don't think we are short on the3914ability to add State partners out there, but we do need3915consistent funding. As those partnerships grow, we need a3916little bit to kick it off each year to start those key leader3917engagements and then the additional funding.3918    And, as you look at the funding for the State Partnership3919Program, the combatant commands, I hear them talk all the time3920about how incredibly important it is. And I think a little bit3921of extra funding in there continues to robust that program3922across the board for our national security.3923    Mr. Womack. Are you still getting good comments, good3924reviews back from the host nation and from the units3925themselves?3926    General Nordhaus. Absolutely, Congressman. Recently, I met3927with Norway in the Pentagon with Minnesota and just over the3928stop incredible relationship there. Sweden and New York came3929into town. That partnership is only 3 years old. I know3930Virginia and Finland, that partnership has kicked off since3931those two nations have joined NATO. And just over and over hear3932the robust coordination between our States--you know, our3933States have went to combat with their State partners. I know3934that, in an upcoming JROTC operation, they are going to have a3935couple State partners actually train with them. So it is not3936only do we do mil to mil, but we do it globally, but it also3937goes mil to civ and then civ to civ.39383939                        COMBAT TRAINING CENTERS39403941    Mr. Womack. Another question, budget-related question, I3942have had some concerns about constraints on the budget and the3943impact it could have on our ability to get units to the combat3944training centers or to the exportable combat training centers.3945Is that a concern? Is this something that--I mean, I consider3946these combat center rotations to be very important to our3947readiness, and I would assume that you would agree that, for3948the Reserve Component, it is no different.3949    General Nordhaus. Congressman, certainly the CTC rotations3950that we do are critical to our readiness each year. And, this3951year, we are doing two, and we are going to do one XCTC. And3952then, while that contract is expiring, we are going to go to3953CRC. So there are combat readiness exercises. And there are3954going to be 15-day deployments. We are doing force on force3955beginning after large-scale combat employment operations.3956    As I talked to Lieutenant General Stubbs, our Director of3957the Army National Guard, he thinks there is great opportunity3958here and that we are going to find good training and that it3959will make us more lethal and more ready for the warfighting if3960we are called upon.3961    Mr. Womack. Yeah, thank you. You referenced John Stubbs.3962For the benefit of my colleagues up here, a long, long time3963ago, when I was a battalion commander, John Stubbs was one of3964my lieutenants. And, since that time, he has become the3965adjutant general for the great State of Arkansas and now the3966director of the Army Guard. We are very, very proud of him. And3967I am assuming you are getting your money's worth from his3968service.3969    General Nordhaus. Absolutely, Congressman.3970    Mr. Womack. Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. I yield back.3971    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentleman.3972    Mr. Cuellar.39733974                           ROLE AT THE BORDER39753976    Mr. Cuellar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.3977    And I want to thank all of ya'll for your service and the3978men and women that work along yourselves.3979    Two questions: One has to do with the role that you play at3980the border. I am from--I represent border areas. I live there3981at the border. And then the other one has to do with the impact3982of the Army Transformational Initiative on the National Guard.3983I will talk about the border.3984    The National Guard has provided border security for many3985years. Again, working with the Department of Homeland in a host3986of different missions, they have done that both in Federal, in3987a State status, performing a number of duties that include3988detection, monitoring, logistics, and transportation, enhancing3989the work that CBP, or Border Patrol, does down there. And that3990is to impede the denial or deny the illegal crossings,3991situational awareness. And we certainly want to thank you.3992    Now that the numbers have gone down, Border Patrol has3993pretty much, you know, it is not the way that we are trained,3994so I would ask you to, you know, continue doing the work you3995are doing there, but to look at some of the basic work. For3996example, let's assume this is the Rio Grande. Right now, the3997roads of Border Patrol come in this way. They need more river3998roads so they can patrol the river, is one thing I would ask3999you to consider, number one.4000    Number two, there is--you know, unless you are from the4001border, you are not familiar with the invasive carrizo-cane4002that just grows very high on both sides of the border. But one4003of the things that we could do is to get rid of that carrizo4004cane. And we have added moneys to get rid of that carrizo so4005Border Patrol can have a clear side of view.4006    So, since the numbers have gone down, I would ask you,4007besides the work you are doing, is talk to Border Patrol and4008talk to them about river roads and the eradication of carrizo-4009cane. And I think that would be extremely helpful.4010    Besides, keeping in mind that one-third of the cameras for4011Border Patrol are working, two-thirds of the cameras are not4012working. Think about that. Two-thirds of the cameras are not4013working for Border Patrol. So those are some things that I4014think, living on the border, I think will be very useful.4015    And then the second question, General, I would like to have4016a better understanding of the impact of the Army4017Transformational Initiative on the National Guard. As you know,4018the Army National Guard has four Apache battalions, including4019the First Attack Recon Battalion 149 Aviation in the State of4020Texas. So there is more of us, a few of us from Texas, which4021currently is flying the D model Apaches that I understand are4022supposed to be divested.4023    So what is the Army's plan for the Guard to ensure that we4024have a full fleet of current Apache helicopters. And what is4025the plan to sustain and upgrade the fleet? So those are my two4026questions.4027    General Nordhaus. Congressman, thank you for the questions.4028As we work super close with Secretary Driscoll and General4029George on the Army side, with Army Transformation Initiative,4030the Army National Guard is very synced in. And, obviously,4031National Guard is 325,000 really--really 328,000 strong. And4032so, as we look at going into the future, keeping that4033transformation very synced with the Army is important. And that4034has been synced across the board. As we look at Army aviation,4035I see that continuing to go in a very good direction. From the4036Apaches, as we look at the Echo models, we have transformed two4037of the four. A third is in transformation right now. And then4038Texas will transform in the future to Echo models. And I see a4039strong future for the National Guard as we go through this4040transformation with the Army.4041    Mr. Cuellar. Okay. Anything on the border?4042    General Nordhaus. Congressman, on the border, General4043Guillot. As the combatant commander, General Guillot and I know4044each other well, and we work very closely--1,500 of our4045guardsmen are in title 10 that fall underneath him. So we will4046certainly pass these comments forward on to General Guillot.4047And also I work with General Suelzer, who is the adjutant4048general for the State of Texas, and where we have about 4,4004049guardsmen supporting Operation Lone Star in the State of Texas.4050    And so I have been down to the border twice to see our4051troops down there and how they are getting after the mission to4052seal the border.4053    Mr. Cuellar. Yeah, and when the numbers were high coming in4054from the border, Border Patrol needed help in logistics,4055transportation, and all of that. The numbers have gone down4056tremendously. In fact, in the Laredo sector, a day, we get4057maybe 30, maybe 40 individuals. And so, across the board, the4058numbers are gone. So the logistics, the intelligence, and all4059that is very important. But I would ask you, again, everybody4060looks at the shiny objects. It is the basic things that should4061be done at the border that will have long-term effects. The4062river roads--imagine the river, right here--the roads run this4063way, not this way. And the carrizo cane, they go almost as high4064as this ceiling--and again they are on both sides. I am just4065talking about the U.S. side. Just clearing that up will provide4066a better view from cameras, eyesight, horse patrols by Border4067Patrol. So I would just ask all of you, whoever is involved in4068this, just to pass that on. And I have talked to General on4069this, but I think it is important that we keep the basics in4070mind.4071    With that, I want to thank all of ya'll for the work that4072ya'll do and thank the men and women that serve with y'all.4073Thank you.4074    General Nordhaus. Thanks, Congressman.4075    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentleman.4076    Mr. Fleischmann.40774078                              TANKER FLEET40794080    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.4081    And I would like to thank each and every one of you all for4082your service and your dedication and your excellence and for4083your time here today. I would like to especially thank4084Lieutenant General Harter for taking time to come and visit us4085in our office with your great staff yesterday and meeting with4086my staff. Very helpful and insightful, sir. Thank you.4087    I have got a couple of questions. So I am going to try to4088condense this a bit. First question is on the tanker fleet. As4089you know, I am from the great State of Tennessee. Tennessee's4090134th Air Refueling Wing was rightfully honored for their role4091in Operation True Promise. I believe 11 air guardsmen were4092awarded the distinguished flying cross for their service. Just4093truly, truly outstanding.4094    The Navy's current tanker, the KC-130T, has a mission4095capable rate of about 30 percent. Apparently, it is, quite4096frankly, not a survivable aircraft in the contested4097environment. The KC-130T fleet is being recapitalized to the J4098model apparently.4099    My question for the Navy and Air National Guard, can you4100share with this committee your role in logistic sustainment and4101provide your assessment of our current tanker capacity to4102sustain protracted conflict in the Pacific?4103    And a followup question: The KC-130J and the KC-464104complement each other's roles. Is there a target number between4105the Air National Guard and the Navy Reserve that would be4106sufficient to fulfill our projective logistics demands?4107    Admiral Lacore. Well, thank you, Congressman. I appreciate4108your interest in our airborne logistics.4109    For the Navy, you are right; the KC-130 Tango mission4110capable rate is not great. It is not where it needs to be. And4111this is a Reserve-only mission, that we support the Active Duty4112for the intertheater logistics.4113    So it is critical that we recap to the Juliets for their--a4114couple reasons. One is, they come with integrated survivability4115systems, which will allow us to operate in a contested4116environment. But, two, we are also anticipating a mission-4117capable rate of above 70 percent for those aircraft. So that4118will be essential to what we do.4119    The Pac Fleet Commander has already asked us, you know, to4120work on organic aerial refueling, and we are doing that with4121the Tangos, but it is a long haul. They are not all plumbed for4122that, whereas the Juliets will come with that plumbing already4123established.4124    We anticipate, with that, at least two times the aerial4125refueling rate, and if we include ground refueling as well, we4126are looking at probably eight times our refueling capability in4127theater, which will be a huge win for us in the Pacific.4128    Thank you.4129    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you.4130    General Nordhaus. Congressman, as we look at the Air4131National Guard--and, in the previous role, I worked out at4132NORAD--and as you looked at tankers to support not only the4133homeland defense mission but then you have the nuclear mission4134that you need to support and then you have the other COCOMs,4135tankers are an incredibly vital capability and requirement for4136our Nation to be able to do air superiority.4137    The Air National Guard has 36 percent of the Air Force's4138air-refueling capacity. And so most of that is in the KC-135,4139which does amazing work, but it is an aging fleet and will be--4140need to be able to modernize in the future.4141    The KC-46, as you know, we have several units out there.4142NMOG-7 will be announced towards the fourth quarter of 2025.4143And we look forward to continuing to modernize the fleet in4144coordination with the Air Force as we go forward.41454146                           PACIFIC LOGISTICS41474148    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you. Thank you both.4149    Now I have a question about the Army Reserve's role in4150Pacific logistics.4151    The Army's fleet of landing craft, logistics support4152vehicles, and utility vessels play a significant role in the4153military logistics ecosystem.4154    General Harter, yesterday, in my office, you emphasized4155that the Army Reserve delivers over half the Army's maneuver4156support capabilities and over 90 percent of certain key4157theater-level enablers like sustainment, medical, and4158engineering.4159    My question, sir, is: I am deeply concerned about the age4160and size of the Army's watercraft fleet. Can you provide us4161with your frank assessment on the health of the Army logistics4162fleet and ability to sustain a war in the Pacific? And what4163would you prioritize, sir, to improve your capabilities.4164    Thank you.4165    General Harter. Thank you, Congressman, for the question.4166    So we have divested our watercraft fleet, although that4167might be coming back. So we are posturing for that, how we4168support Active Army, sir.4169    But with regards to the question, what we discussed4170yesterday, you know, I said 99 percent of bulk petroleum4171transportation support is in the Army Reserve. And in that4172tabletop exercise that we ran, it was focused on the Pacific4173theater. So what we are looking to do--again, NGREA plays a4174huge role in how we modernize our fleet and get after the new4175tankers that the Army is providing.4176    And then we are also looking at how we posture equipment4177forward. We have already tested it in the European theater,4178where we put some of our own equipment forward that will be4179needed early in the fight. And we are now starting the posture4180for INDOPACOM and in the Pacific theater, because we will not4181have time to get that equipment there in large-scale combat4182operations.4183    So I thank you for that question.4184    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you, sir.4185    And I yield back.4186    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentleman.4187    Mr. Cuellar, on that issue on the carrizo cane, we call it4188``arundo'' in California. As you recognize, it is an invasive4189species, and it was brought in by the Spanish to use for thatch4190material back in the day. So, something we should----4191    Mr. Cuellar. Pete and I were saying maybe it was ``chorizo4192cane,'' but that is Mexican food.4193    Mr. Aguilar. I support any chorizo cane.4194    Mr. Calvert. There you go.4195    Mr. Aguilar.41964197                            F-15EX LOCATIONS41984199    Mr. Aguilar. Let's hope there are no tariffs on that4200carrizo.4201    Mr. Calvert. Yeah. We should put a tariff on it, though. It4202is invasive.4203    Mr. Aguilar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.4204    Thank you all for the testimony today.4205    General Nordhaus, I know Chairman Calvert thanked you for4206the support that the Guard has offered Los Angeles during the4207wildfires, and we appreciate that--to all of you.4208    General Nordhaus, as you are aware, the Air Force is in the4209process of decommissioning F-15Cs. The California Air Guard is4210scheduled to receive F-15EXs to replace their aging F-15Cs. I4211am concerned about recent announcements that appear to direct4212some of the F-15EX aircraft to Selfridge over Fresno and New4213Orleans.4214    My first question is: Can we expect to see delays in the4215delivery of the F-15EXs to Fresno? And how are you working with4216the Department to ensure that the Cal Guard doesn't have a gap4217in the F-15 mission?4218    General Nordhaus. Congressman, thanks for the question.4219    In a previous role as the CONR First Air Force Commander, I4220understand the mission set very well and what Fresno does for4221NORAD/NORTHCOM in that mission space set. Incredible unit out4222there.4223    I recently was out in Portland and had the opportunity to4224fly in an F-15EX. So it is a great aircraft that will come into4225the Air Force. And the Air National Guard is bringing that on4226board.4227    We also work very closely with the Air Force as we continue4228to modernize the force, and we appreciate the additional F-422915EXs coming into the Air National Guard.4230    We are working very closely with the Air National Guard,4231General Pirak, our Acting Director of the Air National Guard,4232working very close, hand-in-hand, with not only the Air Force4233but the Air Force Reserve about what bed-down for fighters4234looks like in that future.4235    As we look to the F-15EX and the C model transition there,4236they are working that very closely so there are no gaps or4237seams, and they are trying to mitigate any impacts.42384239                          TRAINING TRANSITIONS42404241    Mr. Aguilar. Will there also be--with the training courses4242for the A-10 pilots transitioning, could the A-10-to-F-15EX4243transition cause some manning shortfalls across the F-154244enterprise?4245    General Nordhaus. Well, Congressman, I would say this:4246Transitioning from an A-10 to an F-15C, it will be a longer4247training program, and so that will have to be planned and4248really thought out very well.4249    Going from an F-15C to an F-15EX, like I am seeing up in4250Portland, is a very quick transition. And so the pilots up4251there, I was very impressed by them. They have 36 pilots at4252Portland; 22 of them are instructor pilots. So I know the vast4253capability and experience, and that will help make transitions4254from F-15C to F-15EX go very quickly.4255    Mr. Aguilar. Are you passing any concerns, you know, up the4256chain?4257    I mean, I hear what you are saying, but, clearly, with the4258change in Selfridge, this could be a problem. When some of4259these transition from the A-10, it will have a longer education4260gap, a training gap there; and the potential for the gap with4261EXs to Fresno.4262    I mean, you are conveying any--any concerns you may have--I4263am not saying that you have any--but any concerns you have are4264being conveyed when it comes to timeliness?4265    General Nordhaus. Certainly. All the bases are talking to4266the Air National Guard Readiness Center, and they are passing4267that information up to the Director of the Air National Guard,4268and we are working with the AirForce.4269    As we look to the future, understanding each of those4270pieces--and then you also have the production of the F-15EXs4271coming off the line. And so we want to understand what that4272looks like in the future, and then we will take that into4273consideration and minimize any gaps or seams so that we keep4274warfighters flying healthy aircraft to get after deterring our4275adversaries.42764277                          SPACE NATIONAL GUARD42784279    Mr. Aguilar. General--I don't mean to pick on you here--the4280administration has expressed interest in establishing a Space4281National Guard. Can you share how the Bureau is interacting4282with the DOD and the administration in establishing a Space4283National Guard?4284    General Nordhaus. Congressman, yeah, thank you for the4285question.4286    Once again, in a previous role, I was the AFSPACE Commander4287for SPACECOM, so I understand the space mission pretty well. I4288know our Air National Guardsmen have been doing this mission4289set for 30 years.4290    NDAA 2025 has that transfer of 578 into the Space Force. We4291are working very closely with the Space Force and with the Air4292Force on that transition.4293    Mr. Aguilar. Thank you.4294    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.42954296                          CONCERNS WITH F-15S42974298    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentleman.4299    I also share Mr. Aguilar's concern about the F-15s. We4300haven't had a really good briefing on that and the Fresno4301situation. Some of us believe that rotation was changed, so we4302want to take a look at that.4303    And, also, how does that affect the air cap at March Air4304Force Base? Because those aircraft presently are coming out of4305Fresno, and how are we going to deal with that if there is a4306delay?4307    General Nordhaus. Chairman, thanks for the question.4308    Working with General Guillot, the Air Force, and with the4309Air National Guard, those are pieces and things that we are4310going to have to work out and make sure that we have the right4311aircraft in the right location to be able to do the mission set4312for homeland defense and homeland security. And I am very4313confident that we will work out solutions in the future,4314Chairman.4315    Mr. Calvert. I look forward to working with you on that.4316    General Nordhaus. Thanks, Chairman.4317    Mr. Calvert. Mr. Rogers.43184319                           GRAY EAGLE DRONES43204321    Mr. Rogers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.4322    Welcome, lady and gentlemen, to the subcommittee.4323    Let me focus my time on the Army National Guard securing4324funding for the Gray Eagle drones.4325    Since 2023, Congress has included funds to procure these4326platforms. And yet here we are, still awaiting a decision from4327the National Guard Bureau on where they will be stationed.4328There is a significant amount of infrastructure work that needs4329to be done to house the Gray Eagles, and we are at the point4330where we can't wait anymore.4331    When can we expect a basing decision? When do we expect4332that will be made, that decision? And what capability gaps4333might there be due to these delays?4334    Sir?4335    General Nordhaus. Congressman, thanks for the question.4336    As far as the basing decision for the 12 Gray Eagles that4337were in the NDAA 2023, those have been pushed out, and the4338announcement, it was made to Arizona.4339    As far as the NDAA 2025, those will go through a basing4340decision and through the Army force structure, like we do with4341any basing decision. And so we are very deliberate, follow a4342strategic process, both on the Air Force side and the Army4343side, to make sure that we take everything into consideration,4344and then make funding decisions as we go into the future.4345    Mr. Rogers. Earlier this month, the Army Transformation4346Initiative was announced, which included mention of canceling4347Gray Eagle procurement for the Active Component.4348    Tell us about the importance of the Gray Eagle drones for4349the National Guard. How might the Army Transformation4350Initiative affect your plans for Gray Eagle drones in the4351Guard?4352    General Nordhaus. Congressman, as we look at the--Army has435318 divisions. Eight of those divisions are in the Army National4354Guard. And, currently, as we look to have UAS capability in4355those divisions in the future, we are looking to bed down and4356work with the Army on that.4357    So the first one was Arizona as we look at the Gray Eagle.4358And that will get bedded down over the next--you know, 2026,43592027, as we take that into the force.4360    And we look forward to learning from that and bringing4361UASes into the Army National Guard and working with the Army on4362the future on UASes in the other divisions as we go forward.4363    Mr. Rogers. Well, we will be keeping an eye on it.4364    General Nordhaus. Thank you, Congressman.43654366                        DETERIORATED FACILITIES43674368    Mr. Rogers. Quickly, let me ask you about deteriorated4369facilities.4370    You all would probably agree with me in saying that our4371facilities within the Guard and Reserve are old, deteriorated,4372lack the modernized infrastructure to support emerging missions4373such as cyber operations and domestic responses.4374    In Kentucky, the National Guard has been vital in the4375emergency response to natural disasters. As we speak, the Guard4376is on Active Duty in my home county in Kentucky due to heavy4377tornadoes on Friday night. So they serve a very important4378mission.4379    Despite their indescribable value, there are multiple4380facilities in my district which are all but obsolete. And yet4381it seems nearly impossible for National Guard and Reserve units4382to get the funds necessary to make these much needed4383improvements.4384    What is the current backlog of deferred maintenance for4385National Guard and Reserve facilities? And what percentage of4386Guard and Reserve facilities fail to meet modern standards?4387    General Nordhaus. Congressman, on the National Guard, we4388have 2,200 armories across 2,000 locations. The average age of4389our armories are about 48 years old. So every dollar that comes4390in to get after facility sustainment, restoration,4391modernization is critical to the National Guard for our4392readiness and to be able to go forward.4393    As far as the exact rates, I will have to take those for4394the record and get those back to you, sir.4395    Mr. Rogers. Well, my time has expired.4396    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.4397    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentleman.4398    And I also share the gentleman's concern regarding the Gray4399Eagle or the MQ-9. It has been a very effective platform both4400for ISR and for combat purposes over the years. I haven't met a4401combatant command around the world who doesn't want more of4402them.4403    So it is interesting that the higher up we go on the4404ladder, it seems that the less support--but when you get to the4405combat areas, they all want them. They all want them badly.4406    So, with that, Ms. Lee.44074408                AIR REQUIREMENT AT NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE44094410    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.4411    Thank you all for being here and for your service and4412leading soldiers in our country.4413    And I wanted to turn to General Healy.4414    In your statement, you touched upon this, that the Air4415Force Reserve pre-block F-16s at Nellis, serving the 7064416Aggressor Squadron, are being divested.4417    It is not clear what is filling the void at this time, and4418so can you tell me what the plan is to fill the adversary air4419requirement at Nellis Air Force Base?4420    And can you also touch on the impact that divestments like4421this have on the Reserve mission, on your ability for the4422Reserve to provide the depth, capacity, and capability?4423    General Healy. Well, thanks very much, ma'am, for the4424opportunity to answer the question.4425    That is accurate; the 706 is scheduled for divestment. We4426will be divesting the 19 aircraft, pre-block F-16s, between4427October and December of this year. And there is no program of4428record to replace that right now.4429    So any options available to the Air Force are going to be4430year-of-execution funding to either have civilian contract air4431pick that up--at, I would expect, a higher cost, between $124432million and $18 million more a year, to manage it than our4433current cost structure for our F-16s there. There are also4434opportunities that we might be able to use additional aircraft4435participating using the ranges there to act as aggressors as4436well.4437    With regard to the impact to it, it is going to be about 884438people that are ops and maintenance folks currently working on4439the F-16 program that are going to be reprogrammed back into4440the Air Force Reserve coffer, so to speak, where we have holes.4441    We do have mission for most of them, whether it be CCA and4442bringing CCAs along or the RQ-170 programs, that are still4443within that same Nevada area.4444    But, ultimately, what we are going to be losing, too, with4445the reduction of those is about a 40-percent loss of instructor4446pilots that are currently providing adversary air for the4447fighting force in order to get them ready and trained to go.44484449                     TUITION PARITY AND RECRUITMENT44504451    Ms. Lee. Okay. Thank you.4452    I wanted to turn to General Harter.4453    I had the pleasure of visiting our soldiers at the Dunaway4454Army Reserve Center earlier this year, and while I was there,4455it was highlighted that an issue impacting recruitment is4456tuition parity in the National Guard. It is my understanding4457that 33 States offer this for Guardsmen but there is no4458commensurate program for Reserves.4459    And so can you speak to the disparity and the impact this4460has on your recruitment?4461    General Harter. Yes, Congresswoman. Thanks for that4462question. It was great having--General Kotulich got out there.4463So I appreciate you coming out and visiting our Army Reserve4464soldiers.4465    So recruiting for the Army Reserve is hard. I acknowledge4466that, right? Many young men and women who walk into a4467recruitment center are looking to either go Active Duty--and if4468they do want to go part-time, the benefits that our National4469Guard teammates offer are incredible.4470    And so we are working with local statehouses and Governors4471to try to create more parity in those benefits. I mean, an4472example would be--and I can't remember which State; it could be4473Virginia or Pennsylvania or both--but if you walk in and join4474the National Guard, your college tuition is paid for, your4475spouse's college tuition is paid for--if it is a State school--4476and all of your children.4477    And so, by the same token, an Army Reserve soldier that4478might want to join the Army Reserve and is a constituent of4479that State, those benefits aren't afforded. And I understand4480that, right? And we are not Title 32. But we continue to work4481it.4482    At the end of the day, the Army Reserve, the impacts of the4483shortage of manpower--I talked about it--60 truck companies. So4484we continue to work with our COMPO 1 teammates--they recruit4485for us--and then continue to work and partner with the National4486Guard.4487    I would offer, it is not a zero-sum game. We don't have4488combat arms formations, and so we are not in direct competition4489with our Guard teammates.4490    Ms. Lee. Uh-huh.4491    General Harter. And so we continue to work that across the4492footprint.44934494                             NGREA FUNDING44954496    Ms. Lee. Great. Thank you.4497    I will address this to the panel. Maybe, General Nordhaus,4498you would like to speak to this.4499    Something that you all touched upon is the NGREA4500appropriation being critical for readiness, from firefighting4501to rescue, to procurement of critical equipment, upgrading4502weapons systems. However, we know that the purchasing power of4503this account has fallen 83 percent since 2015.4504    I think you touched upon, we are sort of at even keel right4505now, but we still are at a disadvantage there.4506    Can you touch on how critical this funding is? And what4507level would allow you to achieve your goals?4508    General Nordhaus. Congresswoman, thanks for highlighting4509NGREA. I have been in combat in an F-16 with an NGREA-bought4510Sniper pod, or LANTIRN pod, or Litening pod, an engine that is4511in the back of the F-16. And so, without those NGREA, I4512wouldn't have been able to accomplish the mission set that I4513needed to help save lives on the ground.4514    Ms. Lee. Okay.4515    General Nordhaus. And so, when you look at whether the4516NGREA is purchasing things on C-130s or on fighters or other4517things in the Army National Guard to be able to give them the4518capabilities that we need to be able to communicate back and4519forth, it helps to make sure that we are interoperable and4520deployable and can be part of the joint team consistently4521across the board.4522    So that NGREA funding is critical for the National Guard4523and for the Reserve Component.4524    General Healy. Yes, ma'am. If I could add on, too. So we4525have a $1.5 billion backlog on modernization efforts for our4526aircraft. They are legacy airplanes, 38 years old. Eighty-eight4527percent of our fleet is over 38 years old.4528    So we typically are getting between $150 million and $1554529million a year in NGREA. Greatly appreciate it. $132 million4530this year. We can easily execute up to $175 million, $1764531million in order to get after that backlog of modernization.4532    Ms. Lee. Great. Thank you for that.4533    I am over my time, so I yield back, Mr. Chairman.4534    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentlelady.4535    Mr. Ellzey.45364537                          MARINE CORPS RESERVE45384539    Mr. Ellzey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.4540    And thank you all for being here.4541    I was going to start serious, but then I looked at the4542panel, and I decided that, according to my written notes here,4543``Beat Army'' and ``Beat Air Force'' are not just a slogan, it4544is a reality--this year. So I am sorry I had to say that in4545good fun.4546    Thank you all for being here.4547    As I look at this distinguished panel--and I mean that with4548all seriousness--I see combat leaders and corporate knowledge,4549the likes of which can't be replicated anywhere else. And as we4550start any fight or respond to any attack, after a sustained4551amount of time, it is the corporate knowledge and the aircraft4552and the men and women that are represented by you that are the4553ones who sustain that fight.4554    And so I think that you have an incredibly difficult job,4555especially when we talk about recapitalization, and it is never4556met, but when you come to the fight, you bring the second-rate4557stuff but the first-rate fighting men and women.4558    So thank you for being here.4559    General Anderson--``Loni,'' as I have known you for many,4560many years--in the short time that I have here, give me about456130 seconds of, if you could ask me to ask you a question, what4562would it be, and answer it real quick.4563    General Anderson. What are your Marine Corps Reserves doing4564today?4565    And, Congressman, 12 percent of the marines deployed4566forward are Reservists today. And that number is going to4567triple through 2027. So, as we continue to prepare for the4568fight, that is what the Marine Corps Reserve is focused on.4569    And we are part of the total force. Like the chairman4570mentioned earlier, we are not an afterthought; we are part of4571the solution. It is not something that we do later. We are4572forecasted in our deployments out through 2031 so our members4573can plan, prepare, and be ready for that deployment.4574    Mr. Ellzey. That is the perfect answer.4575    General Anderson. Thank you for asking.45764577                                KC-130JS45784579    Mr. Ellzey. Yeah.4580    And those folks are dual-hatted. They are doing civilian4581jobs back at home with families, and then they put on the4582uniform, as all of you have, and go to the fight. And that is4583to be commended. And we have relied on that in every fight4584since Desert Storm and even before.4585    As we talk about the INDOPACOM, which is usually the first4586word that comes out as we are talking about China, we talk4587about contested logistics. The Marine Corps is going to play a4588very large role in that, but so is--``contested logistics'' not4589only means cargo but it also means tanking.4590    And, Admiral Lacore--no slouch yourself in the cockpit. I4591think that you and I shared the round domes in San Diego at the4592same time when I was at HS-4.4593    We have tried to get you all some recap on your KC-130Js.4594Talk a little bit about the capabilities of the J versus what4595you have that you are trying to recap on and how many you need4596in fiscal year 2026 to accomplish that mission of contested4597logistics.4598    Admiral Lacore. Thank you, Congressman. Happy to talk about4599that.4600    As you know, the C-130 is only operating in the Reserve,4601and it provides the Navy's only intertheater airlift capable of4602moving oversized cargo. And we are not part-time. We are doing4603this 24/7/365, in all the major theaters.4604    We have 27 aircraft right now, the Tangos, with an average4605age of 34 years and a mission-capable rate of 40 percent.4606Recapping to the Juliets will get us, first and foremost,4607survivability systems which will allow us to operate in that4608contested environment, but we also anticipate a 75-percent4609mission-capable rate, which will go a long way.4610    We started this recap journey in 2024, and we are behind4611glide slope, honestly. The plan was to be at 32 aircraft by46122030. We got one in 20, two in 2025, and we are super-grateful4613for them. But, right now, for the out-years, we need to be4614looking at six per year in order to get us where we need to go.4615    And what are we going to get out of this? A lot. We4616anticipate doubling our sortie rate, getting three times the4617service radius in combat. And if you are looking at aerial4618refueling and ground refueling in an austere airfield, we are4619looking at eight times what we have currently available to us.4620    Mr. Ellzey. Okay.4621    Well, I know that the KC-130J, for those who don't know,4622the J will only refuel Marine Corps and Navy aircraft. It4623won't--at least in this configuration, will not refuel our Air4624Force brothers and sisters.4625    So, as we talk about the INDOPACOM, which is--it is an all-4626services fight, but we talk about the Naval services a lot. So4627you said--what was the percentage of availability of the T?4628    Admiral Lacore. About 40 percent.4629    Mr. Ellzey. About 40 percent. So we are just a couple4630years--if we fund you for what you need over the next 2 to 34631years, you are actually going to surpass your capability with4632far fewer aircraft because of the higher availability rate,4633right?4634    Admiral Lacore. Absolutely.4635    Mr. Ellzey. So we need to be emphasizing getting you what4636you need in the next couple of years. Would you agree with4637that?4638    Admiral Lacore. A hundred percent.4639    Mr. Ellzey. Okay.4640    Admiral Lacore. Absolutely agree.4641    Mr. Ellzey. All right.4642    Admiral Lacore. Thank you, Congressman.4643    Mr. Ellzey. Five minutes goes fast.4644    Mr. Chairman, thank you for your time. I yield back.4645    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentleman.4646    Ms. McCollum.46474648                       SUPPORT TO LAW ENFORCEMENT46494650    Ms. McCollum. Thank you, Mr. Chair.4651    The New York Times reported last week that the Department4652of Homeland Security would be requesting the DOD to provide465320,000 National Guard forces to assist in the removal of4654immigrants from the United States. This was based on an order4655from the President to increase deportation forces. The article4656also stated that State Governors would ask for volunteers for4657this duty.4658    General Nordhaus and Guardsmen will be called up for this4659mission on the southern border. Are they being called up as law4660enforcement personnel to assist in the removal of immigrants,4661outside the United States, or both?4662    If they are to be called up for the removal of immigrants,4663can you share with the committee the following: Where will the4664Guardsmen be called up? What activities will they be executing?4665And will law enforcement be among them?4666    So the question becomes, having been a State4667Representative: Under what legal authority will the Guardsmen4668be utilized? Because some of the Guardsmen will have been maybe4669law enforcement, sheriff's officers and others, and they would4670have some arrest authority in certain circumstances.4671    So can you explain how you see law enforcement personnel4672being used, just folks that maybe don't serve in law4673enforcement in a regular capacity in their civilian job, and4674people who are law enforcement in their civilian job, if they4675will be given different duties or different duties expected of4676them?4677    General Nordhaus. Congresswoman, thank you for the4678question.4679    I do know that the Department of Defense has received a4680request for assistance. It is just initial into the building4681and is being staffed. I don't have specific details or how the4682Department will execute on that request for assistance at this4683time.4684    I do know that the National Guard has supported law4685enforcement, whether it was in Presidential election,4686inauguration 60 or in 59, and multiple times across the States4687that the National Guard gets trained and ready. We operate4688under the authorities of either the State and the Governor or4689operate under authorities from Congress.4690    And so we take those things very seriously, and we make4691sure that we are following the Constitution, we are following4692the law and any policy and guidance, and then that our4693Guardsmen receive the training and are put on missions that4694they know exactly what they need to do, when they need to do4695it, and how they need to do it. And so we will be focused on4696that going forward.4697    Ms. McCollum. Okay. Well, I think there are a lot of legal4698questions that our Guardsmen and -women need to know before4699they are assigned to duties, and I expect due diligence to be4700done.4701    Because there is also talk about using more Federal lands--4702using land and the Federal Government declaring it part of a4703national emergency and then putting military personnel on4704there. Then does that make it a military base?4705    I think there are a lot of areas which we don't understand4706as of yet. At least, I don't. And I feel I have an oversight4707responsibility to understand what the roles are going to be.4708Because I don't want to put any person, military or whether4709they are Guards or non-Guards, in a position where they are4710given an order where things haven't been really thought out4711very clearly, because it is going to be their name in the4712paper, it is going to be their unit in the paper. And I just4713want to make sure that we do our due diligence and, when we4714give them a mission to fulfill, that we have thought of all the4715legal responsibilities and obligations they have.47164717                            TRAINING IMPACTS47184719    The other question that I am concerned about is: As these4720activities increase, how does that affect their training and4721their qualifications for a near-peer fight? How do you work4722with the Department, with the President, to find that sweet4723spot.4724    And that is my only question that I have, Mr. Chair.4725    General Nordhaus. Congresswoman, thank you.4726    As we talked about the National Guard being 433,000-strong4727and currently 34,000--just over 33,500 today around the globe,4728and so that is less than 10 percent. And as we see when4729hurricanes, wildfires, things hit a State, we are able to use4730Emergency Management Assistance Compacts and be able to go to4731wherever is needed to provide that support in a State also4732while we are training for the wartime fight.4733    And so, from your National Guard, we are always ready,4734always there. We are making sure that we are using every dollar4735that Congress gives us to maximize that training and readiness4736so that we can answer the call when called upon.4737    Ms. McCollum. Thank you.4738    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentlelady.4739    Mr. Cole was unable to attend today, but his statement will4740be placed in the record, and he wanted to emphasize his support4741for the Guard and Reserve over the years and his continued4742support.4743    Mr. Calvert. Thank you. I appreciate everyone here for4744coming out. I apologize again for starting late.4745    And, with that, we are adjourned. Thank you.4746    [Whereupon, at 12:05 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]4747    [The information follows:]47484749    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]47504751             DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE APPROPRIATIONS FOR 202647524753                              ----------47544755                                            Tuesday, June 10, 2025.47564757                 OVERSIGHT OF THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE47584759                               WITNESSES47604761THE HONORABLE PETE HEGSETH, SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE4762GENERAL DAN CAINE, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF4763BRYN WOOLLACOTT MACDONNELL, SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE4764SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, PERFORMING THE DUTIES OF THE UNDER SECRETARY OF4765  DEFENSE47664767                 Opening Statement of Chairman Calvert47684769    Mr. Calvert. Good morning.4770    The Subcommittee on Defense will come to order.4771    Today, the subcommittee will convene for an open oversight4772hearing to receive testimony regarding the Department of4773Defense from the Honorable Pete Hegseth, Secretary of Defense;4774General Dan Caine, Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staffs.4775    Mr. Secretary, General Caine, congratulations to you both4776on your new roles, and welcome to your first hearing before the4777subcommittee. We look forward to working with you closely to4778provide for our common defense.4779    And a very special welcome to Ms. Bryn MacDonnell.4780    Bryn, it is great to have you back here in this room. You4781sat beside me on this side of the dais, so it might be a new4782feeling, sitting where you are now. So I am sure it is4783bittersweet that you are no longer serving as a member of my4784staff, but I commend your service to the Nation.4785    And, Mr. Secretary, you are lucky to have her. I have no4786doubt that she will provide you with the same level of faithful4787advice that she provided for me.4788    The work we do in this committee has never been more4789important. We are navigating an increasingly complex and4790uncertain global environment, with adversaries like China and4791Russia pursuing aggressive actions and challenges in regions4792like the Indo-Pacific, the Middle East, and beyond.4793    Our military must be prepared to meet those challenges, and4794that preparation requires substantial investments in both4795personnel and equipment. But we also must be responsible4796stewards of the taxpayer dollars. Balancing national security4797priorities with fiscal responsibility is a delicate but4798necessary task.4799    Mr. Secretary, I commend you for quickly hitting the ground4800running and focusing on your key priorities of reviving the4801warrior ethos, building our military, reestablishing4802deterrence, and ensuring the defense of our homeland.4803    The American people expect their borders to be secure. The4804challenges of our southern border, including the ongoing flow4805of illegal drugs, human trafficking, and other illicit4806activities, are growing threats to our security and must be4807addressed. The cartels exploiting our border are increasingly4808sophisticated and dangerous. The Department of Defense has a4809critical role in this fight.4810    Mr. Secretary, I applaud your efforts in focusing resources4811to ensure the border is secure. I look forward to more4812discussion about what resources are necessary to keep the4813momentum going without compromising our ability to meet threats4814abroad.4815    I also want to hear from you both about the readiness of4816our force. I have heard from senior military leaders and4817servicemembers alike about the ongoing concerns related to the4818health of our force, including the need for modernization, the4819ability to respond quickly to emerging threats.4820    While this committee has consistently provided funding for4821investments in next-generation systems, from hypersonics to4822autonomous platforms, we are still seeing troubling delays and4823cost overruns in a number of programs.4824    We simply cannot deter near-peer competitors like China by4825falling short in sustaining our defense and industrial base.4826That is why it is critical that we continue to focus on the4827pace of modernization, particularly in areas like air4828superiority and munitions production.4829    The committee has been steadfast in our support of entities4830within the Department that challenge the status quo, such as4831DIU, the Office of Strategic Capital, and APFIT. These4832innovation entities are alternative pathways to deliver4833capability quickly to the warfighter. And I would appreciate4834the opportunity to work with you to bolster these activities as4835a way to bring disruption and competition into the Department,4836which, in my experience, can yield better and faster results.4837    I also want to discuss the critical importance of our4838partnerships and alliances. The AUKUS agreement is one of the4839most significant defense initiatives in recent years, with the4840potential to reshape the strategic landscape in the Indo-4841Pacific.4842    As we pursue these initiatives, we must ensure that we are4843maintaining our own military capability. Our shipbuilding4844programs remain over-budget and behind schedule and under-4845delivered. This is simply not acceptable, and we need to have a4846credible, executable naval force structure plan to keep pace4847with threats that we face, particularly from China, while4848ensuring taxpayer accountability.4849    Finally, we must always remember the men and women who wear4850the uniform. For far too long, we heard from too many junior4851enlisted servicemembers who were struggling with basic needs.4852These men and women, the backbone of our Armed Forces, they4853perform the tough and often dangerous work that keeps our4854country safe.4855    I was proud to help secure a 10-percent raise for our4856junior enlisted servicemembers on top of the 4.5-percent raise4857that all servicemembers received last year. It is critical that4858we continue to provide support for all those who fight in4859defense of our great Nation.4860    We ask a lot of our military, and the strategic landscape4861is more complex than ever. I look forward to a frank discussion4862on how we are matching resources to priorities and honoring our4863commitments to both readiness and to our people.4864    I now recognize the distinguished ranking member, Ms.4865McCollum, for her opening remarks.48664867                    Opening Remarks of Ms. McCollum48684869    Ms. McCollum. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.4870    And I would like to thank all of you for appearing here4871today. And I would like to thank all the men and women who4872serve in our military, both wearing the uniform and as4873civilians.4874    As I say often, national security is holistic and not just4875defense spending. Do Americans have the healthcare that they4876need? Are we providing good nutrition to our kids so that they4877can eventually grow up strong and serve in our Armed Forces?4878    Cuts to Medicaid and SNAP in the reconciliation bill put4879the whole of our society at risk, and I believe that this4880weakens our national security--all so billionaires can have4881their tax breaks.4882    It is also irresponsible for us to assume that you can fund4883the defense programs through an unstable reconciliation4884process. That is why it has never happened before in our4885Nation's history.4886    What else has never happened before was the Department of4887Defense operating under a full-year continuing resolution. The4888CR was endorsed by President Trump, OMB Director Vought, and4889you, Mr. Secretary. After enactment of the CR, the Department4890had 45 days to submit a spend plan to Congress. In many cases,4891it ignored congressional intent.4892    OMB has an obligation to get money to the services so that4893contracts can be executed in a timely fashion, but every4894defense company, from the smallest startup to the largest4895prime, has told me it is going too slow. Time and taxpayers'4896dollars are being wasted. Our national security is being put at4897risk because of the lag time. CRs are simply wasteful.4898    But the point of this hearing is the President's fiscal4899year 2026 budget request, and we don't have it. It was due in4900February. Today is June 10th. Four months from now is the end4901of the fiscal year, and all we have is a very rough draft. The4902DOD has failed to submit a complete request.4903    So, today, we are forced to mark up a rushed and, for me,4904an incomplete Defense Appropriations Act. I don't blame4905Chairman Cole or Chairman Calvert. The fault is squarely on the4906administration.4907    But just like the CR, this has national security4908ramifications. We do not have the critical information, the4909granular details, on the DOD programs that we need to make in4910order to be effective and efficient with our decisions.4911    The President proposes; Congress disposes. And that is how4912our government works. How can I work with this administration4913in good faith when we don't have a full blueprint of the4914President's priorities?4915    For example, Golden Dome at this point is merely a concept;4916it is not a plan. None of us have been briefed yet on how you4917intend to spend $175 billion or deliver this program in three4918short years.4919    We do not know if priorities like Golden Dome, if they do4920not survive the reconciliation process, what will the4921Department do? You can't come back to this committee and ask us4922to fill those gaps. Defense spending should never have been4923included in reconciliation.4924    Mr. Secretary, it is still incumbent upon you to provide us4925with the real budget request. That is the only way to finish a4926full-year bill that will address DOD's complex issues like4927delays to the Virginia- and Columbia-class submarine programs;4928the skyrocketing costs of the Sentinel program; ensuring our F-492935 fighters are operational; and taking care of the quality-of-4930life issues for our servicemembers and their families that they4931deserve.4932    We also must understand the administration's approach to4933geopolitical concerns like Russia's illegal invasion of4934Ukraine; or plans to address the military capabilities of the4935People's Republic of China; or adequately support our future4936military posture in the Arctic as the polar ice caps continue4937to melt.4938    We don't know the answers because the administration has4939not submitted a budget.4940    Mr. Secretary, let me close with this: It is no secret that4941we have some serious disagreements.4942    The President's decision to call the National Guard troops4943to Los Angeles was premature, and the decision to deploy Active4944Duty Marines, as well, is downright escalatory. Active Duty4945military has absolutely no role in domestic law enforcement,4946and they are not trained for those missions.4947    I ask you, Mr. Secretary, and I ask the President, follow4948the law.4949    I was also appalled by your decision to fire Chairman4950Brown, Admiral Franchetti, and other military leaders who4951served our Nation with distinction. You fired them without4952giving a single reason why.4953    Many Americans, myself included, have witnessed what is a4954deliberate effort to silence and diminish the achievements of4955minorities and women in the military. Their dedication, their4956heroism, their sacrifice on behalf of our Nation deserve4957recognition, not erasure.4958    As a former history teacher, I know and acknowledge4959uncomfortable truths about our own history. It is the only way,4960when we recognize them, that we move forward together.4961    Since World War II, the Department has made great strides4962in building a military that is more reflective of the4963population of this Nation. That should be celebrated. It should4964not be reversed. That is how we build a more perfect Union. We4965build it together.4966    But, Mr. Secretary, today, I have a job to do. We must4967provide the resources necessary to make sure our men and women4968in uniform can accomplish their missions and come home safely.4969And on that, Mr. Secretary, I am sure you and I both agree. To4970do that, we need a budget from you as soon as possible--a4971complete budget.4972    I look forward to your testimony.4973    Mr. Chairman, I thank you for the courtesy, and I yield4974back.4975    Mr. Calvert. Thank you.4976    And before we hear from witnesses, I would like to4977recognize the distinguished chairman of the full committee, my4978good friend, Chairman Tom Cole, for any statement.49794980                    Opening Remarks of Chairman Cole49814982    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Chairman Calvert,4983Ranking Member McCollum. And always good to be here with my4984good friend and negotiating partner, the ranking member of the4985full committee, Ms. DeLauro.4986    Welcome, Secretary Hegseth and General Caine, and we thank4987you for your service to our great Nation. As today marks your4988first appearance before this subcommittee, I want to reaffirm4989my commitment to work with you and work to ensure that we have4990a strong defense.4991    We convene at a time of significant global uncertainty. The4992threats facing America are diverse and evolving and demand a4993strong, agile, and effectively funded Department of Defense.4994    As chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, my4995primary responsibility is to ensure that taxpayer dollars are4996allocated wisely and effectively to safeguard our security.4997    First, I want to address the readiness of our Armed Forces.4998We must ensure that our troops are fully equipped, trained, and4999prepared to meet any challenge. I am particularly interested in5000the current state of our defense industrial base and the steps5001being taken to address any identified shortfalls in being able5002to meet production demands.5003    Next, I want to address the modernization of our military5004capabilities. It takes us too long to acquire new weapons5005systems. Meanwhile, our adversaries are rapidly developing5006advanced technologies. We must not surrender our technological5007edge or allow our forces to be under-equipped and outgunned.5008    I would like to hear about your plans for Golden Dome,5009hypersonics, and other programs that are evolving with the5010constantly changing nature of war. It is imperative that we5011invest in technologies that will define the future fight. At5012the same time, we must remain realistic about development5013timelines and avoid overcommitting to a single approach at the5014expense of adaptability.5015    It is important that this subcommittee understands how5016tradeoffs and risks were approached in this budget. I have been5017concerned about capability gaps during transitions from one5018platform to the next. And while space is the next frontier, I5019am hearing more and more that space offers an answer to every5020problem.5021    While I am optimistic about space-based capabilities, I5022certainly think platforms like the E-7 offer tremendous5023capabilities until and, frankly, beyond when space is fully on5024line. We need diversified capability and support for programs5025across domains to ensure continued military dominance.5026    And I also want to hear more about the Department's efforts5027to produce a budget that balances maintaining a strong defense5028posture with exercising fiscal responsibility. I will be5029seeking assurances that the Department is maximizing efficiency5030and eliminating wasteful spending, and, Mr. Secretary, I look5031forward to hearing more about what you have done with the5032efforts undertaken so far.5033    I must say, I do agree with my friend Ms. McCollum; we need5034more information than we have gotten from OMB. That is not your5035responsibility, but it is critical for us to be able to make5036the decisions we are going to have to make.5037    And, again, I understand all the complexities of being a5038new administration. Nobody ever meets the timeline when they5039first come into office. And we have gotten a lot of good5040information from OMB. But the reality is, we, frankly, need5041more than we have received so far to make the decisions that we5042are called upon to make.5043    I want to emphasize the importance of congressional5044oversight, and, again, I am committed to working with the5045Department of Defense to ensure that our national security5046objectives are met. However, we also have a duty to hold it5047accountable for its spending and performance.5048    And I think I can speak for almost everyone in this room:5049No one liked the way the fiscal year 2025 process ended. Again,5050that is not your fault, that is our fault, and there is plenty5051of blame to go around. But it is certainly an experience I5052don't want to repeat. I don't want you or your colleagues at5053Department of Defense to have to operate under a CR again for5054the coming year. I know the difficulties that places on you.5055Every member of this committee knows that. You have my5056commitment we are going to work hard to avoid that this year.5057But, again, we need some help from all concerned in the process5058to achieve that goal.5059    And almost no one, again, as I said, liked the way the5060process ended, but we owe it to the men and women in uniform to5061get this right. It will require collaboration with the5062Department to inform and produce a product that will meet that5063goal. I look forward to being your partner in that effort.5064    And, again, I want to thank you for being here today.5065    And, again, I want to thank you for your extraordinary5066service to this country before you assumed this position. I5067think that is one of the reasons why we have done as well5068recruiting, is people that are thinking about putting on the5069uniform of the United States have confidence in you because you5070have made that decision and you served this country with5071distinction before you ever came on this post. And leading by5072example is an important thing, and I want to thank you for the5073example you set for men and women that wear the uniform of the5074United States.5075    With that, again, welcome in your first appearance, and we5076look forward to hearing your testimony.5077    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.5078    Mr. Calvert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.5079    I would like to now turn to the ranking member of the full5080committee, Ms. DeLauro, for any opening comments.50815082                     Opening Remarks of Ms. DeLauro50835084    Ms. DeLauro. Thank you so much, Chairman Calvert and5085Ranking Member McCollum, and always to, again, my dear friend,5086the chairman of the committee. We have worked together for many5087years in producing, I believe, bipartisan appropriations bills,5088and it is our attempt to be able to do that this go-'round as5089well.5090    Thank you for holding this oversight hearing on President5091Trump's Department of Defense.5092    To our witnesses, Secretary Hegseth, Chairman Caine, Ms.5093MacDonnell: Welcome to the House of Representatives, and thank5094you for appearing before us today.5095    Defense is the largest portion of our discretionary budget,5096yet you have still not sent this committee a complete budget5097request. We are in mid-June, Mr. Secretary. We are marking up a5098defense funding bill in a few hours. And yet we have no idea5099what your Department actually needs. We have no details as to5100how you want to implement your plans.5101    We should be discussing how you plan to get our submarine5102programs in order, how the Black Hawk platform will be utilized5103into the future, and how you plan to improve our5104servicemembers' and their families' quality of life.5105    It is unacceptable for us to move forward with a defense5106funding bill without this information, and it is regrettable5107that the administration has put us in this position. If we5108cannot complete this process on time, we risk yet another5109continuing resolution, which is wasteful, inefficient, and5110detrimental to our military readiness.5111    Already, your methods for funding our Nation's defense5112programs are as unwise as they are unprecedented. You backed5113the first-ever full-year continuing resolution for the5114Department of Defense. Particularly Defense has always been5115opposed to moving in that direction because of the uncertainty5116that a continuing resolution portends for defense and for the5117defense industry. Now you are relying on a risky and a partisan5118budget reconciliation process instead of regular appropriations5119to fund vital programs. The appropriations process is wherein5120lies the power of the purse, according to the U.S.5121Constitution.5122    However, this is still an essential opportunity for5123oversight, and the Department of Defense, under your5124leadership, is in desperate need of it.5125    Your tenure as Secretary had been marked by endless chaos.5126Your first day in office, the Inspector General, whose job is5127to investigate waste, fraud, and abuse, was fired. Weeks later,5128you dismissed the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff and five5129other admirals and generals.5130    Your careless sharing of military secrets in a non-secure5131Signal chat, which could have placed American airmen in danger,5132led to the firing of Former National Security Advisor Waltz.5133    You have directly fired several of your top advisors, and5134the ranks of civilian staff have been decimated within key5135agency posts, including the Defense Health Agency and the5136Missile Defense Agency.5137    Mr. Secretary, of all the Cabinet departments, stability at5138the Department of Defense is the most critical for Americans'5139safety and security.5140    Going after waste in defense and an audit among contractors5141is long overdue, as is a fresh look at defense after what we5142learned in Ukraine. But that requires thoughtfulness and5143cooperation, not rash and reckless purges of leadership and5144rank-and-file staff. And firings based on political loyalty are5145an affront to what our Constitution and our military stands for5146and depends on.5147    Meanwhile, this administration has done seemingly5148everything possible to alienate America on the world stage and5149turn our back on our allies, particularly Ukraine. Our5150belligerent trade wars and the dismantling of our humanitarian5151mission all have implications for our national security.5152    Why would anyone trust us or partner with us when we are5153busy undermining our allies' economies and encouraging China to5154fill the vacuum we are leaving by abandoning our humanitarian5155mission? The bags of flour that I have seen on foreign soil5156that say ``USAID,'' ``U.S.,'' ``Product of the United States of5157America'' will be gone and, instead, will be replaced by5158``China'' or ``Russia'' or ``Iran.''5159    Conflicts around the world that President Trump promised he5160would resolve overnight are only escalating. While we need to5161focus and prepare for threats to freedom and democracy5162worldwide, the Department of Defense is mired in controversy5163and chaos.5164    The American people expect, deserve, and demand better from5165their military leadership, and the lawlessness across the5166government must end. This administration has unlawfully5167dismantled agencies and stolen funding across the government to5168give billionaires a tax break.5169    America's future soldiers are learning in our public5170schools. Our future sailors might rely on Medicaid to see a5171doctor. Our future airmen and -women might only have a meal to5172eat because of SNAP or food stamps, or they may live in5173subsidized housing. If tomorrow's servicemembers are worried5174today about having their most basic needs met, then they are5175being held back from their fullest potential, and that weakens5176our national security.5177    National security is not just machines and munitions. It5178requires a whole-of-government approach, which is why this5179administration must provide us an acceptable and complete5180budget as soon as possible so we can conduct proper oversight5181and why this administration must cease the lawless stealing of5182appropriated funds.5183    I thank the chair and ranking member.5184    And I look forward to your testimony.5185    I yield back.5186    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentlelady.5187    We will now begin with witness testimony.5188    Gentlemen, without objection, your full written testimony5189will be placed in the record.5190    Secretary Hegseth, we can start with you for your summary5191of your remarks. Mr. Secretary, you are recognized.51925193                 Summary Statement of Secretary Hegseth51945195    Secretary Hegseth. Well, Chairman Calvert, Ranking Member5196McCollum, distinguished members of the committee, thank you for5197the opportunity to testify in support of President Trump's5198proposed fiscal year 2026 budget for the Department of Defense.5199    I am honored to testify today alongside General Dan Caine,5200Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Bryn MacDonnell, who5201is performing the duties of DOD's Comptroller and Chief5202Financial Officer.5203    I am also proud to represent and serve our warriors and5204their families. Today, as they do every day, they are keeping5205America safe. They are defending the homeland, they are5206standing up and deterring Communist China, and we are working5207hand-in-glove with allies and partners to achieve peace through5208strength.5209    I would actually like to start by thanking this committee5210and Congress for your bipartisan leadership to give our troops5211a big pay raise in 2025. This included an additional 10.5-5212percent raise for our junior enlisted servicemembers, E1 to E4.5213Thank you also for supporting other initiatives that will5214improve quality of life for our warriors and their families.5215    With a focus on our troops and their loved ones, I have5216directed additional actions that will further improve their5217quality of life. These include making historic investments in5218improving the living conditions in barracks and base housing,5219reforming the PCS process to reduce the cost and stress of5220moving, and improving the quality of care provided by the5221defense healthcare system.5222    Now, the best part of my job is meeting and interacting5223with troops and their families. I hear their concerns. I know5224how it feels to face those challenges; I have been there5225recently. Each of these initiatives responds to feedback that I5226have received from the force, and I will keep listening and5227looking for ways to improve their quality of life.5228    Under President Trump's leadership, this budget puts5229America first and gives our warriors what they need. The $961.65230billion budget request--over $1 trillion for national5231security--will end four years of chronic underinvestment in our5232military.5233    In the last four months, we have moved quickly to reverse5234course after four years of weakness and mismanagement. We found5235nearly $30 billion in savings across the Department, and we5236have reinvested those savings. We have killed wasteful5237programs, targeted bureaucratic excess, and redirected funding5238from Biden-era priorities to President Trump's priorities.5239    We are reoptimizing the civilian workforce and5240repositioning resources to better support our warfighters. We5241are working with the Department of Homeland Security to5242increase border security. We have reduced China's malign5243influence in our hemisphere. We have defended freedom of5244navigation in the Red Sea.5245    However, we still have a lot of work ahead of us to achieve5246peace through strength.5247    To carry out the President's mission, we have three core5248priorities, as was mentioned: restore the warrior ethos,5249rebuild our military, and reestablish deterrence.5250    First, we are restoring the warrior ethos. President Trump5251has charged me with focusing on warfighting lethality,5252meritocracy standards, and readiness. That is exactly what we5253are doing. We are focused on what is important: warfighting and5254warriors.5255    We are sweeping away distractions and bloated bureaucracy.5256We have set standards that are high, equal, and unwavering. DEI5257is dead. We replaced it with a colorblind, gender-neutral,5258merit-based approach.5259    Our force is responsibly--is responding--excuse me--5260responding positively, incredibly to these changes. And thanks5261to President Trump, recruiting and retention is higher than it5262has been in decades, at historic numbers.5263    This budget provides a historic level of funding for5264military readiness, putting our warfighters and their needs5265first.5266    Second, we are rebuilding our military.5267    Twenty-five years ago, our military was unchallenged, yet5268we squandered that advantage as China carried out an5269unprecedented military buildup. President Trump is correcting5270those mistakes. We are reviving the defense industrial base,5271reforming our acquisitions process, rapidly fielding emerging5272technologies to put the best weapons in the hands of our5273warfighters.5274    This includes investment of $25 billion in the Golden Dome5275for America, a downpayment on President Trump's priority to5276defend our homeland. It also commits more than $62 billion to5277modernize and sustain our nuclear forces. The budget allocates5278$3.5 billion for the F-47, the world's first sixth-generation5279air superiority fighter.5280    This budget will revitalize our shipbuilding industrial5281base, with $6 billion in funding in fiscal year 2026, $475282billion in shipbuilding total. The budget increases5283significantly funding for autonomous systems, long-range fires,5284drones, and hypersonics. We will put these capabilities in the5285hands of our warfighters.5286    Third, we are reestablishing deterrence. When our opponent5287sees our well-equipped, tough-as-nails warriors, they will5288decide that today is not the day to test American resolve.5289    Credible deterrence starts at home, and it starts with5290securing our borders. We will achieve 100-percent operational5291control of the southern border, with crossings already dropped529299.9 percent.5293    It also starts in our neighborhood, in the Western5294Hemisphere. As you know, as we have said, the Indo-Pacific is5295our priority theater and China our pacing threat. That is why I5296have traveled twice to the Indo-Pacific region to meet with our5297allies and partners, and they have responded.5298    As we shift in that direction, President Trump looks to5299those allies and partners to step up, to share in the burden of5300their own defense. He also sees them, as I do, as force5301multipliers alongside the United States, and we are making5302progress in that. As the President has rightly pointed out, it5303is only fair that our allies and partners do their part. We5304can't want their security more than they do.5305    So the Department of Defense is executing a commonsense5306agenda to achieve peace through strength. The threats we face5307are serious, and so must our investments be. So what this5308budget does, it matches capabilities to threats. We must5309overcome decades of neglect and decline. We must fortify our5310position as the world's most lethal fighting force. And we must5311act fast.5312    This committee is our critical partner in everything we do,5313and your leadership and oversight is essential. So we look5314forward to accomplishing these goals, to achieving peace5315through strength, to supporting our warriors, protecting our5316citizens and taxpayers, together with you.5317    May God grant us the wisdom to see what is right and the5318courage to do it. Thank you.5319    [The information follows:]53205321    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]53225323    Mr. Calvert. Thank you, Mr. Secretary.5324    General Caine, you are now recognized for your remarks.53255326                   Summary Statement of General Caine53275328    General Caine. Thank you.5329    Chair Calvert, Ranking Member McCollum, other leaders,5330members of the committee, I am honored here today to join5331Secretary Hegseth and Ms. Bryn MacDonnell to appear before you5332today to testify on the President's fiscal year 2026 budget.5333    Today's hearing reflects our shared commitment to maximize5334efficiency, accountability, and lethality to our taxpayers'5335investments, ensuring that every expenditure increases the5336survivability of our joint force, providing our warfighters5337with the advanced capabilities and capacity and cutting-edge5338technologies required to dominate our adversaries.5339    I have deep gratitude for everyone in this room and your5340commitment and cooperation to help us deliver the capability5341and capacity for our 2.8 million members of our joint force,5342the civilians that serve alongside us, and, of course, their5343families--all required to work together to deliver, as the5344Secretary said, peace through strength.5345    It is my responsibility as Chairman to understand the5346global set of conditions, advise the Secretary, and integrate5347our joint forces to confront and manage risks worldwide. This5348demands a comprehensive understanding of all domains--space,5349cyber, air, sea, undersea--and all military services, each5350region, and at times our allies, partners, of course, as we5351consider carefully what they bring to the table, and to inform5352the decisions that you will make to give us the finite taxpayer5353dollars required to ensure the greatest strategic impact with5354that investment.5355    The President's budget enables the joint force to defend5356our great Nation against adversaries seeking to do us harm. We5357are relentless in our pursuit of innovation and technology that5358allows us to deter our adversaries at every opportunity, while5359ensuring we are positioned to win on the battlefields of the5360future when called upon.5361    This budget empowers the joint force to get after Secretary5362Hegseth's three pillars, as he mentioned--restoring warrior5363ethos, rebuilding our military, and reestablishing deterrence--5364and ensures, from my perspective, the joint force is properly5365armed, globally integrated, and ready.5366    The President's budget invests in our warfighters. To win5367on the battlefields of the future, as I said, our forces must5368be properly armed, with the right capabilities--lethal, modern,5369reliable, survivable, and at scale. Victory requires people and5370platforms that will overmatch the enemy day after day, systems5371that will be required to operate under the harshest of5372conditions, and technologies that will give our warfighters the5373decisive edge that they deserve.5374    This budget gives us the necessary tools to reinvigorate5375our national and defense industrial base. Our Nation is full of5376incredible talent, and we need to get every bit of it moving in5377the same direction.5378    This budget also helps the joint force get globally5379integrated. I think we are relationship entrepreneurs within5380the joint force, which requires us to work together with the5381military, our allies and partners, industry, and, of course,5382the interagency to be connected before crisis begins.5383    Finally, the President's budget reflects our mandate to5384stay ready, always on the account, anticipating the next fight,5385not fighting the last fight, and delivering for our force and5386their families.5387    Our force and our families are the last and most important5388part of this budget. This budget makes meaningful investments5389in our servicemembers and their families, improving quality of5390life, housing, medical care, and the moving process, along with5391our most precious asset, our people, who must be properly5392armed, integrated, and ready.5393    I also want to highlight the servicemember over my right5394shoulder quickly, the senior enlisted advisor to the Chairman,5395who will retire after 37 years, Sergeant Major Troy Black. He5396didn't know I was going to say this today.5397    So, in conclusion, it is an honor every day to serve5398alongside some of the most extraordinary warriors, civilian5399teammates, and families that our Nation has ever known. I5400assure this committee that the joint force remains committed5401and capable and ready to defend our Nation. With your continued5402support and prudent investment, we will maintain that5403competitive edge at scale.5404    I want to also remember today our deployed and their5405families, who are out there on the front edge of our Nation5406making sure that we are safe here in this committee room today.5407    And I would be remiss, as I always try to remember, to5408remember our fallen and their families who have made the5409ultimate sacrifice.5410    I thank the Congress for your support and collaboration. I5411thank this committee for your efforts and leadership. And I5412look forward to your questions.5413    [The information follows:]54145415    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]54165417                      REDUCTION OF FORCE AND DOT&E54185419    Mr. Calvert. Thank you.5420    I want to make sure that each member has a chance to ask5421questions, so everybody will have 5 minutes for their remarks5422and answers. Remember, when the little light comes on and it is5423yellow, you have 1 minute left.5424    So I will begin by recognizing myself for 5 minutes.5425    Mr. Secretary, the Department recently issued a memo5426reducing the civilian personnel at the Office of Director of5427Operational Test and Evaluation by about 74 percent and reduced5428the budget by 80 percent.5429    Now, everyone on this subcommittee can attest that I have5430been beating the drum for reductions in DOD personnel--civilian5431personnel--since I became a member of the committee, and that5432is a long time. In fact, I have a bill that would require the5433Department to reduce civilian staff by 15 percent based on5434merit.5435    However, I think we need to be intentional and clear-eyed5436about the functions that we reduce. As you know, DOT&E was5437established by Congress in 1983 to centralize and strengthen5438operational testing, ensure that weapons systems are rigorously5439evaluated for combat effectiveness and suitability, and to5440address deficiencies in oversight and standardization within5441the Department of Defense.5442    And there are a lot of examples of DOT&E catching flaws5443that would have had catastrophic consequences for our military,5444including loss of life. Like, one example is the M2/M3 Bradley,5445which was designed to transport troops, provide fire support.5446The Army approved the system, touting the armor, firepower, and5447mobility. However, when the independent testing was done, it5448was found out the aluminum armor was not a good idea and was5449susceptible to failure, and early versions caught fire and5450burned. And so, obviously, we made changes and rectified that,5451and the Bradley has been a valuable part of our military ever5452since.5453    But we share the same goals--to create a more efficient,5454leaner DOD--but with things like Golden Dome coming along, we5455want to make sure that the technologies we pick are going to5456work and that we fund them accordingly.5457    So I understand the reduction is seeking to remove5458duplicative functions. We are not interested in delays, and I5459know that that is really high on your list. However, a layer of5460independent testing is, I think, important.5461    In light of that, with the reduction, how will you ensure5462that if the military services tasked with testing and5463evaluating their own programs will not revert to past behavior,5464which showed they would approve systems in order to meet5465operational needs or budget timelines?5466    So, with that, Mr. Secretary, let's see if we can have an5467answer to that.5468    Secretary Hegseth. Well, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the5469question. And how we evaluated DOT&E was a reflection of the5470overall approach we take in the Department, which is: How5471efficiently do we operate? Where are the bottlenecks?5472    We talk about the things you talk about every single day.5473How do we get hands--how do we get systems, platforms, future5474capabilities in the hands of warfighters as quickly as5475possible?5476    And so a review led by myself, the Deputy Secretary of5477Defense, our friends at DOGE who have worked with us, have5478helped us look and identify places where we might find5479efficiencies. Now, I work and my hands are directly in the5480middle of that to ensure that, as we seek those efficiencies5481and reduce those redundancies, we are not doing so in a way5482that undermines our capabilities or safety for warfighters in5483the future.5484    After we got rid of a lot of the really low-hanging fruit5485of tens of billions of contracts and things that we have5486reduced that were duplicative, that were completely wasteful,5487that were creating PowerPoint presentations that no one was5488looking at, you start to look at things like DOT&E, Testing and5489Evaluation--which, in a headline, sounds quite significant, and5490it can be in many ways.5491    But when you ask the services, when you ask the Joint5492Staff, you talk to the Comptroller and CAPE and you go across5493the other Under Secretaries, there is a universal recognition5494that DOT&E's mission has bloated and expanded well beyond the5495scope of what it was supposed to be and, as a result, was5496expanding by months and sometimes even more than that the5497amount of time it was taking for systems to actually make it in5498the hands of warfighters.5499    So you still have services and other places doing that5500testing and evaluation. This remains in place at a right size.5501So we see it as a right-sizing of DOT&E. So it still provides5502that oversight and ensures across the joint force we are5503recognizing the challenges, but it doesn't add unnecessary5504time.5505    So we recognize why it was created. We want it to do its5506job, but not more than its job. And that is what we believe it5507is doing, by reforming it.5508    Mr. Calvert. Well, thank you for that answer.5509    Obviously, as we expect new systems, new technologies to5510come on line quickly, we want to make sure, as this committee,5511that we are funding it properly and make sure that you can5512handle the volume which you are anticipating.5513    Especially with a new technology like Golden Dome, which,5514you know, we still--as the ranking member pointed out, we still5515haven't seen a clear definition of what it is--it is a5516strategic theater system, lower 48, Hawaii, Alaska, the rest of5517it--and how these layered systems are going to be put out there5518to defend the country and to make sure that we are not spending5519a lot of money unnecessarily. So testing and evaluation is5520going to be an important part of that.5521    With that, I recognize Ms. McCollum.55225523                    DEPLOYMENT OF THE NATIONAL GUARD55245525    Ms. McCollum. Thank you, Mr. Chair.5526    Mr. Secretary, I plan to ask you some budget questions5527about the following: the cost of the Qatar plane; where the5528money for the Army's parade is coming from; or the National5529Guard deployments to the border, where that funding is coming5530from.5531    I honor and celebrate the United States Army, but I would5532like to know how much this parade is going to cost. I have sent5533the Department letters on several occasions on this, and I am5534still waiting for a response.5535    But then something else happened this weekend, and it needs5536to be addressed, and that is the President's premature and5537escalatory decision to deploy not only the National Guard5538troops to Los Angeles but Active Duty Marines as well.5539    Mr. Secretary, we are both from Minnesota. I was in the5540Twin Cities during the riots that followed the murder of George5541Floyd. Tens of thousands of protesters took to the streets for5542days. Governor Walz made the decision to call up the Minnesota5543National Guard.5544    At no point did we need--the citizens of Minnesota request5545that the Marines be deployed. Our State and local law5546enforcement, along with our National Guard, who have worked on5547crowd control, they were more than enough. They were more than5548capable of handling this situation.5549    History has proven that law enforcement and the National5550Guard are more than capable of handling situations more5551volatile than what happened this weekend. We all see the5552continuous loops on TV, but this looks nothing like the George5553Floyd protests or the Rodney King riots in Los Angeles in 1992.5554    Mr. Secretary, this is a deeply unfair position to put our5555Marines in. Their service should be honored. It should not be5556exploited.5557    The President has issued an executive order and talked5558about deploying troops across the country.5559    Los Angeles County has 17,000 law enforcement personnel,5560and the State of California has 24,000 National Guard troops.5561So that is why the Los Angeles chief of police did say, and I5562quote, ``The possible arrival of Federal military forces in Los5563Angeles, absent clear coordination, presents a significant5564logistical and operational challenge for those of us [who are5565charged] with safeguarding this city,'' the end of his quote.5566    As I mentioned before, in Minnesota, we train for those5567things together. So there is no need for the Marines to be5568deployed.5569    So here are my budget questions, though: What is the5570current cost for what is taking place in California, and how is5571it going to affect this budget or the budget we are currently5572serving under? How much are these deployments going to cost for5573both the Marines and the National Guard?5574    And what training or duties are not taking place because of5575these deployments? Where in your limited budget, sir, are you5576going to find--in the remainder of this fiscal year, are you5577going to pull the money to cover these deployments? What holes5578are being created?5579    Secretary Hegseth. Well, Congresswoman, thank you for the5580question.5581    You are right; we are both originally from Minnesota, which5582is why I recall 2020 quite well, when Governor Walz abandoned a5583police precinct and allowed it to be burned to the ground and5584also allowed----5585    Ms. McCollum. So, sir----5586    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. 5 days of chaos----5587    Ms. McCollum. Sir, your----5588    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. To occur inside the streets5589of Minneapolis.5590    Ms. McCollum. [Off-mike.]5591    Secretary Hegseth. The police precinct, ma'am, was5592abandoned and burned to the ground. And because of that, the5593National Guard was eventually, far too late, mobilized.5594    And President Trump recognizes a situation like that,5595improperly handled by a Governor, like it was by Governor Walz,5596if it gets out of control, is a bad situation for the citizens5597of any location.5598    So, in Los Angeles, we believe that ICE, which is a Federal5599law enforcement agency, has the right to safely conduct5600operations in any State and any jurisdiction in the country,5601especially after 21 million illegals have crossed our border5602under the previous administration.5603    ICE ought be able to do its job, whether it is Minneapolis5604or Los Angeles----5605    Ms. McCollum. Mr. Chairman, I have limited time. I asked a5606budget----5607    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. And they are being----5608    Ms. McCollum [continuing]. Question. Could the Secretary5609please address the budget? Thank you.5610    Secretary Hegseth. You asked about the situation in Los5611Angeles, and we believe----5612    Ms. McCollum. I asked about the budget.5613    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. ICE agents should be----5614    Ms. McCollum. I asked about the budget, sir.5615    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Allowed to be safe in doing5616their operations. And we have deployed National Guard and the5617Marines to protect them in the execution of their duties,5618because we ought be able to enforce immigration law in this5619country, unlike what Governor Walz did in 2020.5620    There are 17,000 LAPD. You mentioned that. There would be562118,000 if not for the defund movement that folks like Gavin5622Newsom and Karen Bass have----5623    Ms. McCollum. Mr. Chairman, if the----5624    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Implemented. The police5625chief----5626    Ms. McCollum. Mr. Chairman, if the Secretary----5627    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Said she was overwhelmed,5628so we helped.5629    Ms. McCollum [continuing]. Is not going to ask the5630budgetary questions--I will yield back my time if the Secretary5631refuses to answer the budgetary questions I put before him.5632They are important.5633    What training missions aren't happening? Where are you5634pulling the money from? And how are you planning this moving5635forward? These are budget questions that affect this committee5636and the decisions we are going to be making in a couple of5637hours.5638    If you are not going to answer them, please let the5639chairman know, and I will take back my time and I will yield it5640back to the chairman.5641    Mr. Calvert. Mr. Secretary, why don't you just let us know5642what accounts you are pulling the money to to fund----5643    Secretary Hegseth. Well, thankfully, unlike the previous5644administration, we have a 13-percent increase in our defense5645budget, and we will have the capability to cover down on5646contingencies, which is something----5647    Ms. McCollum. Mr. Chairman, I yield back my time.5648    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. The National Guard and the5649Marines plan for. So we have the funding to cover down on5650contingencies, especially ones as important as maintaining law5651and order in a major American city.5652    Mr. Calvert. All right.5653    Secretary Hegseth. As far as training, all of the units on5654the ground have been fully trained in their capabilities of5655what they are----5656    Ms. McCollum. Mr. Chairman----5657    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Executing on the ground.5658    Ms. McCollum [continuing]. I asked for budgetary. If he5659needs to get back to the committee with the numbers, I would5660appreciate it, both current and present.5661    Mr. Calvert. Okay. All right.5662    Ms. McCollum. Thank you.5663    Secretary Hegseth. Happy to submit them for the record.5664    Mr. Calvert. The gentlewoman will receive an answer to the5665question for the record.5666    [The information follows:]5667    Mr. Calvert. The gentleman from Oklahoma, Mr. Cole.5668    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.56695670                    RETIRING LEGACY SYSTEMS AND E-7S56715672    Mr. Secretary, again, welcome.5673    As I mentioned in my opening comments, I am very concerned5674about retiring legacy systems. They need to be retired--no5675problem there--but doing it too fast and not having5676replacements coming on line.5677    I have a particular concern where E-3s, as my colleagues5678know, AWACS, are--there are just 31 of them in the fleet, or5679there were. Fifteen have been retired since 2023. They fly out5680of Tinker Air Force Base for the most part, which is in my5681district, hence my parochial but I think legitimate interest5682here.5683    I am very interested in seeing--and this committee has done5684some important work in positioning us to acquire and field the5685E-7s. It is not a new technology. Our friends in Australia use5686it; our friends in the United Kingdom use it. Much superior to5687what we have.5688    And so, again, this is one of the areas where we are5689concerned where we don't have the budget information from OMB5690we would like.5691    So I am curious about what your thoughts are on the5692platform and replacing them. Do you have any idea about the5693speed and cost that you are planning to move in that particular5694area going forward?5695    Secretary Hegseth. Well, I appreciate the question, Mr.5696Chairman.5697    And priorities and decisions are what we are in the5698business of, on the budget side, on the capabilities side. And5699I think President Trump has charged us with making the big,5700difficult decisions after a lot of deferred maintenance and5701deferred decisions, to ignore parochial priorities in large5702part and focus on what the Department needs and where it needs5703it and when it needs it.5704    And that means some tough calls. And there are platforms we5705have supported as a result, and there are some platforms and5706systems that we won't support going forward because the5707services have requested it or we have identified those are5708systems and platforms that don't orient toward a future threat.5709    And we have learned a lot of things--a lot from what has5710happened in Ukraine. We have learned a lot from what China is5711attempting to do and the systems they are building.5712    So, if we have systems and platforms that are not5713survivable in the modern battlefield or they don't give us an5714advantage in a future fight, we have to make the tough5715decisions right now. That is my job, that is the Chairman's5716job, and it is our job to fund those new systems and make tough5717calls.5718    So the E-7 is an example of that. We are going to fund5719existing platforms that are there more robustly and make sure5720they are modernized, but we believe most of the ISR or a great5721deal of the ISR in the future will be space-based. And not in a5722scientific, space-based ``we hope we will get there,'' but in a5723``we are funding capabilities that will surpass some of those5724airborne capabilities.''5725    So we are willing to continue to review things like the E-57267, but, from our view, investments in existing systems that5727carry forward that capability, alongside even bigger5728investments in space-based ISR, gives us the kind of advantages5729we need on a future battlefield.5730    The Chairman. I think that is a fair point.5731    I will point out, I have been on this committee a long time5732and watched the U.S. Army waste $29 billion on a future combat5733system because it was going to be so great. And it didn't, and5734we wasted a ton of money.5735    We have a platform here that works. Space is great. It is5736unknown; it is undeveloped. And I would just urge you to look5737at this pretty carefully as you make the decision. We certainly5738will as a committee.5739    I don't know how much time I have left, because the clock5740is not running.5741    Mr. Calvert. You are the chairman, so----57425743                             HIRING FREEZES57445745    The Chairman. Well, I will try and be respectful of the5746committee and certainly respectful to our witnesses.5747    I have one other quick question, if I may. And I think5748probably a lot of Members have had these concerns.5749    Look, I am largely very much in favor of the hiring freezes5750and some of the things you have done personnel-wise, so this is5751not a criticism. But I do hear that we have certain exempt5752positions, like aircraft mechanics, like firefighters--and we5753are having a problem with that again.5754    Fort Sill, I have the home of the Field Artillery and Air5755Defense Artillery as well. It is a pretty military district.5756Nobody is being critical, but we are having a hard time5757getting--these are exempt categories--those filled.5758    Can you sort of tell me where we are at on that? Because5759these are mission-critical people.5760    Secretary Hegseth. That is a great question, sir. It is5761something we are paying very close attention to. In fact, we5762meet on it multiple times a week. It includes shipbuilding5763capabilities, childcare centers. There are a lot of positions5764that affect our industrial base, our capabilities, or our5765families that we are working diligently to ensure we are5766getting those exceptions as quickly as possible, those waivers.5767    But we are also trying to do right by right-sizing the5768civilian force, which has gotten too bloated too fast and has5769mostly been right-sized through voluntary separations through5770DRP. So I acknowledge that.5771    And we can get you a full list of the exemptions, as well,5772to make sure you understand where we are making tradeoffs.5773    The Chairman. I would appreciate that very much, Mr.5774Secretary. Thank you.5775    [The information follows:]5776    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thanks5777for your courtesy.5778    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentleman.5779    Ms. DeLauro.57805781                      SUBMARINES AND SHIPBUILDING57825783    Ms. DeLauro. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.5784    I would like to focus, Mr. Secretary, my question on5785submarines and our national security, our military5786shipbuilding. And, as I said specifically, submarines--critical5787investment for national security and for the economy of my home5788State of Connecticut.5789    This is a yes-or-no question, Mr. Secretary: Do you agree5790that continued investment of the Department of Defense in5791submarine production is, in fact, critical to the United5792States's national security and military readiness?5793    Secretary Hegseth. Very critical.5794    Ms. DeLauro. Okay. So ``yes.'' Thank you.5795    And we agree. They will continue to be a critical asset to5796deter adversaries, sustain the advantage we have in undersea5797domain, and the Defense Department should continue to support5798these programs.5799    What is the status of the Department's investments in5800submarine programs?5801    Secretary Hegseth. A 14-percent increase in fiscal year58022026 on the Columbia and a substantial increase in the Virginia5803as well.5804    So we are ensuring a defense-submarine industrial base that5805has been left behind, that has been----5806    Ms. DeLauro. Well----5807    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Neglected, is fully5808invested----5809    Ms. DeLauro [continuing]. We have funded the submarine base5810here.5811    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. To make sure we are5812speeding up on funding the submarines.5813    Ms. McCollum. More than half.5814    Ms. DeLauro. More than half. And you can go back to last5815December. But I want to move on.5816    Do you know where our submarine production currently stands5817and whether current production is sufficient to bridge the gap5818between current fleet size and projected need?5819    Secretary Hegseth. There is a gap, but we believe we are5820closing it, ma'am. Yes.5821    Ms. DeLauro. And if you can get to us the information about5822how, in fact, that you can close that gap, because we do not5823have any information or data that can substantiate what you are5824saying.5825    Your department's initial budget proposal includes5826incremental funding for the Columbia-class submarine. Is that5827going to raise alarm bells across the defense industrial base5828by signaling a lack of commitment to the program?5829    Secretary Hegseth. No. We could not--ma'am, we could not be5830more committed to Columbia. The centrality in the triad,5831ensuring it delivers on time, it is central to the deterrent5832and the base of the United States.5833    Ms. DeLauro. Do you know how much----5834    Secretary Hegseth. So we are very committed to that.5835    Ms. DeLauro [continuing]. Of a financial hole this will5836create for the defense industrial base? Will there be a5837financial hole for the defense industrial base in 2026?5838    Secretary Hegseth. Certainly not. Based on our projections,5839there is not a hole. We are investing in Columbia robustly.5840    Ms. DeLauro. Okay. Without numbers--it is my understanding5841the Department is planning to move $3.1 billion for the5842Columbia-class from 2026 and spread it over 2027 and 2028. This5843creates a serious problem for industry in the short term and5844hampers shipbuilders' ability to reach an adequate production5845rate.5846    Have you been in contact with Electric Boat or with5847Huntington Ingalls about your plans?5848    Secretary Hegseth. Almost every day, our Deputy Secretary5849of Defense alongside our Secretary of the Navy are actively5850engaged with all of our shipbuilders and shipyards to make sure5851their needs not only are being met but their shortfalls are5852being addressed so that we can close that gap in real-time----5853    Ms. DeLauro. Uh-huh.5854    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Which has existed for quite5855some time.5856    Ms. DeLauro. So that you can--you can really lay out for us5857the information which we would like to get, you know, this5858committee needs to take a look at. Because I know you believe5859that submarines are important, as I do. But getting the5860specific information about where we stand, what the production5861rate is, what gaps there may be.5862    We are willing to listen to all of that, because, in fact,5863in contrast to what your earlier statement was, we have, in5864fact, supported mightily the submarine industrial base from5865this committee. That has not been neglected.5866    Do you have a plan for making the investments necessary to5867ramp up submarine production to the necessary elections?5868    I would just tell you, as part of the December continuing5869resolution, Congress included $5.7 billion for the Department5870to put on contract for two additional Block IV and one Block V5871Virginia-class submarines. The Navy advised Members that these5872funds were required to be placed on contract by February of58732025, yet the Department did not put funding for the two5874additional Block IV boats on contract until April 30th.5875    So do we have a plan--do you have a plan for making the5876necessary investments to ramp up submarine production to the5877necessary levels? And what is that plan?5878    Secretary Hegseth. Ma'am, first of all, I want to thank5879this committee for the flexibility alongside fiscal year 20255880and the continuing resolution, plus----5881    Ms. DeLauro. Well, I would hope you would thank this5882committee for the funding----5883    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. A lot of flexibility5884provided on the submarine----5885    Ms. DeLauro [continuing]. That it has made.5886    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Industrial base, and we----5887    Ms. DeLauro. We have made a serious investment. So your5888first statement is inaccurate. We have focused squarely on5889submarines.5890    And we now want to know where that is going and what your5891plan is for the continued investments to meet production levels5892and make sure that that is an area that is covered for our5893national security.5894    Secretary Hegseth. Ma'am, I fully acknowledge the5895investment this committee has made in shipbuilding. And the5896challenge is, our department, under the previous5897administration, squandered a lot of that by----5898    Ms. DeLauro. Please----5899    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Not investing it properly--5900--5901    Ms. DeLauro. I want your plan. I have had difficulty with5902the prior administration, and I don't mind calling them out.5903What is your plan for the future? Can we get that in writing5904and on paper so that we know where you are going? Because we5905don't have anything today. We have zip, nada, in knowing where5906you are going.5907    Secretary Hegseth. We----5908    Ms. DeLauro. You can talk percentages, you can talk about5909whatever you want, but unless this committee sees dollars and5910cents and where you are going and what your plan is, then we5911may reconsider what you need to do to go forward.5912    Give us the details.5913    Secretary Hegseth. Congresswoman, we have the details, and5914we will provide them for you.5915    Ms. DeLauro. Well, then let's have them before we--my hope5916is that we could get to it before we go to a markup within a5917few hours here today.5918    I yield back my time, Mr. Chair.5919    Mr. Calvert. The gentlelady yields back her time.5920    The dean of the House, Chairman Rogers.59215922             DEFENSE FROM ADVERSARIES WITH NEW TECHNOLOGIES59235924    Mr. Rogers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.5925    Welcome, gentlemen, lady.5926    Let me ask you about the stunning success of the Ukrainian5927drones of last week. Are we seeing the ushering in of a new era5928of warfare, the use of drones from afar?5929    After all, these drones were smuggled into Russia, hidden5930for a great span of time, and then activated from 2,500 miles5931away. Are we prepared both defensively and offensively, Mr.5932Secretary?5933    Secretary Hegseth. I will answer that and then maybe hand5934it to the Chairman.5935    I would say, sir, it was a daring and very effective5936operation that we were not aware of in advance and reflects5937significant advancements in drone warfare, which we are5938tracking in real time inside Ukraine and taking that feedback5939to help us better understand how we can better produce more5940lethal attritable drones but also advance our counter-UAS5941systems so that we are not vulnerable to a threat and an attack5942like that.5943    The Chairman and I got together right after seeing that and5944saying, ``What more can we do to ensure we are prepared and our5945country is defensible against something like that?''5946    I will hand it to the Chairman.5947    General Caine. Mr. Secretary, Congressman, thank you for5948the question. I think it goes to your more strategic question5949about, is the way and nature that we are fighting our wars5950changing, sir?5951    The answer is likely yes. Mass numbers of rounds moving5952back and forth with precision and autonomy are all things that5953are advancing in the technology trend exponentially. One of the5954things that I have talked with some of the leaders of this5955community and the committee about are buying capabilities along5956the technology curve or ahead of it. And so I do think it was a5957bold move, and it represents a new and different way of5958fighting wars, as we have seen over the past few years in that5959particular fight, sir.5960    Mr. Rogers. What do we need to do to protect ourselves from5961a similar type raid by an adversary?5962    Secretary Hegseth. Well, sir, intelligence is critical,5963human intelligence, signals intelligence, every aspect of how5964we get ahead, get to the left of a problem like that. And5965certainly our Department, in conjunction interagency, are5966focused on that.5967    But then it is rapidly fielding the commercially available5968technologies, in some cases, but others proprietary, whether5969they are EW, whether they are microwave, whether they are5970kinetic, to defeat drones either individually or in swarms in5971multiple locations against, you know, protecting our people,5972protecting our installations, protecting our critical5973infrastructure, protecting our bombers.5974    And some of that speaks to Golden Dome and what we will do5975there, but you also have the particulars of the immediate. Our5976forward-deployed troops, are they properly covered by counter-5977UAS systems? Do we have the best systems forward deployed? And5978that is something we are looking at every single day.5979    We live in a dynamic operating environment, and we are--it5980is--the Chairman knows this, the deputy, our policy shop. We5981are focused on ensuring that this is front and center5982considering how central this threat will be going forward.5983    Mr. Rogers. Well, these are low-cost, high-tech weapons, if5984you will, and has been dominated by China. 90 percent of drones5985are produced by China, I am told.5986    What does that tell us about what we need to do here at5987home?5988    Secretary Hegseth. Well, sir, it is not--first of all,5989making sure we are less reliant on Chinese technology in any5990part of the supply chain, which is something we can speak to,5991because that has been an aggressive part of our effort at DOD,5992but, also, recognizing it is not just China. Of course, Iran5993invests substantially in drone capabilities. And then learning5994a lot from partners on our side, like the Ukrainians, who have5995developed these systems, and fielding that quickly.5996    So commercially available, attritable that we can produce5997at home is important to us.5998    Mr. Rogers. Congratulations to all three of you, and we5999wish you well.6000    I yield back.6001    Secretary Hegseth. Thank you, sir.6002    Mr. Calvert. Thank the gentleman.6003    Question really quickly. Is the press story accurate that600440 percent of the long-range bombers from Russia were destroyed6005in that attack? Is that an accurate number?6006    General Caine. Sir, I am not exactly sure what the6007percentage is, but I also know that I may not say that in open6008session.6009    So I will take that and get back to you through appropriate6010channels.6011    Mr. Calvert. Thank the gentleman.6012    Ms. Kaptur, you are recognized for 5 minutes.60136014                        DEFENSE INDUSTRIAL BASE60156016    Ms. Kaptur. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.6017    I welcome our guests. I come from a family of combat6018veterans going back a long time, and my comment is the use of6019certain words and what they imply.6020    When I hear ``warrior ethos''--and I hear it a lot from6021you, Mr. Secretary--I am concerned. All the soldiers in our6022family, all of whom fought and received medals for their combat6023service, call themselves soldiers. Marines are trained to kill.6024    In terms of domestic policing, our police and our National6025Guard at the State level, carefully used but also our State6026police are used in civil enforcement, and they are good.6027    I don't need any reply. I just am concerned about what6028those words you often utter actually do in people's minds and6029change the language we have used since the founding of this6030Republic. So I just--that is a concern of mine.6031    I wanted to go to the General, and Chairman, if I could. We6032have heard a lot this morning about defense industrial base,6033and this is something I ran for office on a long time ago.6034    We have not made significant progress as a country in this6035regard. And the places that made things, whether they were6036machine tools, whether it was composite materials, were left6037behind. It is one of the reasons for the division in our6038society.6039    So I am very interested in knowing what specifically and in6040which accounts--and I hope you can get this back to us within a6041week and a half--you are going to focus on in order to inject6042additional resources in the defense industrial base of this6043country. What will that look like? We are just successful now6044in helping steel to revive and some of our composite metals.6045    Forty years ago, I wrote a title to the defense bill6046dealing with strategic metals. Nobody at Department of Defense6047cared, okay? So I am interested in which accounts, if you could6048kindly get back to me on that, and what--when you say ``defense6049industrial base,'' budgetwise in which accounts, what does that6050mean?6051    All right. I don't expect you to answer it now. Can you6052tell me when you might get that information back to us?6053    General Caine. Well, ma'am, you just said a week and a6054half. So I know the awesome humans behind me are scribbling6055madly to come back to that.6056    Can I just make a quick comment? I happened to be a lucky6057guy that served in the private sector for a while, and I ran a6058machine shop in Texas, along with a metal finishing business.6059So, when we talk about defense industrial base, I broaden that6060out to really the national industrial base. There are certain6061components that are made on the defense side, but, as you6062articulate, ma'am, many others are made in the small machine6063shops out around this entire Nation.6064    When I talk about mobilizing our Nation, I think of that6065national, not just defense industrial base. What do we have to6066do to create greater capacity all the way down the chain to6067include jobs at the local level for those people that build6068quality parts and deliver on time with shorter lead time and6069lower cost. And so I have great empathy for what you are6070talking about, and we will get back to you just as soon as we6071can.60726073                       RELATIONSHIP WITH UKRAINE60746075    Ms. Kaptur. Yes.6076    And, General and Secretary, going back to the drone attack6077in Ukraine, a country that was invaded by the Russian6078dictatorship starting in 2014--they have been at war for a6079decade, more than a decade--what they have done with drones is6080astounding. It is going to change warfare.6081    One of my questions is, what are you doing to establish6082relations with Ukraine and not turn your back on them as an6083administration and help them win, help liberty win? This has6084implications way beyond the boundaries of Ukraine.6085    Russia has got 11 time zones. I mean, this is the most6086important test of liberty for our NATO alliance in my lifetime,6087and we better help win. And that involves moving forward faster6088on drone technology.6089    I am very worried about our air bases where we have secure6090assets. Mr. Secretary, can we defend them today if they were to6091have a similar attack?6092    Secretary Hegseth. We are certainly very focused on that,6093ma'am, and we are learning every day from Ukraine.6094    I think we would need to clarify what ``win'' means. This6095President is committed to peace. He is committed to stopping6096the killing, and he was not in office when it started in 2014.6097There were no additional incursions in his first term, and6098then, under the previous administration, Vladimir Putin sought6099to take Ukraine.6100    We are committed. This administration is committed to6101peace, to stopping the killing, and we think that serves the6102American interests.6103    Ms. Kaptur. Did you just leave Ukraine, Mr. Secretary? Did6104you just leave Ukraine?6105    Mr. Calvert. Gentlelady's time has expired, but if you can6106get back to us on that, that would be great----6107    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Did not leave Ukraine.6108    Ms. Kaptur. Have you visited Ukraine?6109    Secretary Hegseth. No, ma'am.6110    Ms. Kaptur. My first trip there, sir, was 1973.6111    Mr. Calvert. The gentlelady's time has expired.6112    Mr. Carter, you are recognized for 5 minutes.61136114                     ARMY TRANSFORMATION INITIATIVE61156116    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.6117    I want to thank all of you for your service. We are very6118proud of you.6119    I am fully supportive of the Army's outgoing modernization6120efforts and the recent Army Transformation Initiative that6121combined the Army's Futures Command with TRADOC to become the6122Transformational and Training Command.6123    How are you both going to create a partnership between the6124Assistant Secretary of the Army for acquisition, logistics, and6125technology and this new command to ensure the acquisition6126authorities are modernized and synchronized to achieve the6127maximum lethality and deterrence?6128    Secretary Hegseth. I will take that. Maybe I will hand it6129to you, Mr. Chairman, as well.6130    We are very encouraged and supportive of the Army's6131Transformation Initiative. General George has been critical to6132that, as has the Secretary of the Army, Dan Driscoll. And6133together it has been a heck of a partnership and a willingness6134to get at the core issues facing today's Army and ensuring it6135is reformed and modernized to meet the threats of the future.6136    One of those aspects is merging those commands, and I can6137tell you, whether it is the warrior ethos or lethality, that is6138central to why we make decisions, ensuring that we are not6139making decisions on behalf of bureaucrats or process--but to6140ensure we are getting the most lethal aspects of what we do6141front and forward as quickly as possible. And that involves6142things like Futures Command and TRADOC.6143    And, when you merge those things, you have to make sure you6144are getting rid of things that are redundant and pushing6145forward things that matter the most, but I will defer to the6146Chairman.61476148                          SUCCESS IN INDOPACOM61496150    Mr. Carter. Well, I share that commitment completely, and I6151share the transformation. What do you see as the fundamental6152capabilities this command must develop to ensure we have6153lethality and deterrence necessary to succeed at INDOPACOM? We6154have got--that is where the future is.6155    General Caine. Sir, I will first echo the Secretary's6156respect and appreciation for Secretary Driscoll and General6157George. They are a team. And that is always great to see from a6158warfighter's perspective when you have such a nested combat6159pair, if you will, that are driving at the same set of6160objectives.6161    I think there is clarity, Congressman, in the minds of both6162the Secretary and the Chief on the need for things like long-6163range fires in the Pacific. And, in order to pay for those,6164they are making those difficult decisions down the Army6165Transformation Initiative in order to pay for them.6166    Mr. Carter. Well, when we started talking about the Futures6167Command, one of the things that I was hoping we would do is we6168would not get a project stacked up on somebody's desk in a6169stack that high, and when you got down to checking on that,6170``Oh, that goes to you,'' and it goes on top of another--on the6171bottom of another stack that high.6172    And so we get delayed and delayed and delayed and delayed6173in certain areas of bureaucracy. I think that is dangerous for6174our country as we look forward at INDOPACOM.6175    General Caine. Yes, sir.61766177                NEXT-GENERATION ENERGETICS MANUFACTURING61786179    Mr. Carter. That is why I asked the question.6180    Another issue that is very important, the Department has6181historically relied on outdated production techniques--6182energetics manufacturing, which may have remained unchanged6183since the Second World War.6184    How is the Department ensuring that investment in next-6185generation energetics manufacturing, such as AI, machine6186learning capabilities, and enabling an assurance of--quality6187assurance robotic-driven load, assembly and pack and automated6188formation processes--a priority and transition out research and6189development that is capable of producing these pathways?6190    In other words, a modern way to load and turn out6191ammunition, in the simplest terms.6192    Secretary Hegseth. We are robustly funding things like DIU,6193like SCO, like the Office of Strategic Capital, to ensure that6194commercially available options, other companies are able to6195compete that traditionally are not involved in procurement at6196the Defense Department so that the valley of death is6197eliminated and you are able to bring in actual competition and6198dynamic solutions.6199    Otherwise--ammunition is a great example. It is very6200antiquated in many cases. We are still making rounds the way we6201made them after World War II. You have to project out what you6202want to make, send that signal to industry, and then allow6203innovators to enter that space so they can bring new technology6204and rapidly field those new technologies.6205    Otherwise, you are stuck doing it the same way you have6206always done it.6207    General Caine. I was going to add something, but I will6208hold off if you are going to----6209    Mr. Calvert. If we can get a written response to the6210gentleman from Texas on that.6211    General Caine. Yes, sir.6212    Mr. Calvert. That is a concern of all of ours, to modernize6213our manufacturing capability----6214    Secretary Hegseth. Yes, sir.6215    Mr. Calvert [continuing]. So we can get back manufacturing6216to the United States.6217    Mr. Cuellar, you are recognized.62186219               WESTERN HEMISPHERE COMMAND IN SAN ANTONIO62206221    Mr. Cuellar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.6222    Mr. Secretary and all three of you all, welcome, and thank6223you for your service.6224    I represent an area from San Antonio all the way to Laredo,6225the border. In San Antonio, we have got Joint Base San Antonio,6226the largest joint base in the Department of Defense, that6227contributes over $151 billion to the Texas economy. We support6228266 mission partners.6229    San Antonio also has the second largest cyber footprint in6230the Nation, hosting the Sixteenth Air Force Cyber, and, of6231course, the military facilities that are the best in the6232country also.6233    Along with that, going down to Laredo, the largest port in6234the country, ninth largest in the world. After eight Chinese6235ports, number nine in the world is Laredo.6236    And my question, Mr. Secretary, has to do with one of your6237plans, and I ask you to--welcome you to San Antonio, let the6238San Antonio folks come in. It has to do with Army--U.S. Army6239North and U.S. Army South. I am not going to go with their6240missions or the critical mission.6241    But what concerns us in San Antonio, both the Democrats and6242Republican Members of Congress and Senators, we are concerned6243that, in setting up a Western Hemisphere Command, which I think6244it is a good idea, that you move it away from a place like San6245Antonio where, you know, we have the infrastructure, the6246personnel, the community partnerships to work with you on this.6247    And I say this because I think your testimony has about--6248about 11,900 troops that are down there working with Homeland,6249which I support. And, keeping in mind what's happening with the6250cartels in Mexico and other places, I would ask you to--when6251you look at this Western Hemisphere Command, that you don't6252move it 1,500 miles away from the border, especially to a place6253like San Antonio.6254    I think our Texas--I think we have a few Texans here that6255can talk about the rest of the State of Texas, and some wannabe6256Texans also that can talk about what--the facilities we have.6257But I would ask you to--as you consider this, to keep the6258command--Western Hemisphere Command in San Antonio.6259    Secretary Hegseth. Well, sir, count me amongst some of the6260wannabe Texans. Tennessee is close enough.6261    Mr. Cuellar. We got no State income tax.6262    Secretary Hegseth. True. I appreciate that concern. It is6263something that has come up multiple times in conversations with6264Secretary Driscoll and General George in reviewing their Army6265modernization plan and consolidation with the recognition that6266some of those changes, when we go through a posture review and6267as we are looking at commands, are going to include some tough6268choices.6269    Some of that includes ranks and positioning, but you still6270are going to have at some level a south and north bifurcation.6271The question is where that is headquartered. We are in an6272ongoing review on that, of exactly where that will shake out.6273    But I would encourage continued deliberation with Secretary6274Driscoll. They have been thoughtful about it and will continue6275to be.6276    Mr. Cuellar. And I understand that there is decisions that6277have to be made, efficiencies and all that. But just ask you,6278as you look at that, if we are doing so much investment on the6279border, if we already have the infrastructure down there in San6280Antonio and all the support from the other military bases6281across the State of Texas, and the partnership, I would ask you6282and the Secretary to please, before you make a decision, go--go6283drink the water, you know, go feel what we have in San Antonio6284and the surrounding areas in Texas to consider that instead of6285just making a decision by the paper on that.6286    And certainly I ask you to consider also the second largest6287footprint that we have at cyber there in San Antonio and6288working with the top cyber university, UTSA, there. And, of6289course, the military facilities that we have, which are the6290best, and certainly during the Afghanistan and Iraq war, that6291area was in luck.6292    So I just ask that, before any decisions are made, consider6293making a trip to San Antonio and have your folks understand. I6294know some of you have been in Texas before, and I would ask you6295to look at that.6296    So, with that, Mr. Secretary, and all of you all, thank you6297for your service.6298    Secretary Hegseth. Noted, sir. And thank you for your6299contributions to securing the border, which has been a huge6300priority for President Trump. We are going to get 100 percent6301operational control, and it is because of support from folks6302like you. Thank you.6303    Mr. Cuellar. Thank you for your service.6304    Mr. Calvert. Thank the gentleman.6305    Chairman Womack.63066307                        FORCE STRUCTURE CHANGES63086309    Mr. Womack. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.6310    My thanks to our witnesses here today. Secretary Hegseth,6311General Caine, thank you from the bottom of my heart and on6312behalf of this committee for your service to our Nation.6313    Obviously, we face a number of challenges and pacing6314threats across the globe in all domains, and we have to ensure6315that the Joint Force is ready to fight and win our Nation's6316wars. So let me begin with General Caine.6317    What risks do the recent force structure changes or6318proposals in the Army and Marine Corps present to the Joint6319Force given your Global Force Integration responsibility? Can6320you speak to that for a minute?6321    General Caine. Yes, sir. And I will be mindful of the6322environment that we are in and speak broadly, and thank you for6323the question.6324    You know, we are having to make some difficult choices to6325pivot some of the combat capability that we have now to the6326combat capability that we need in the future. Both services6327alongside the Department of the Navy and the Department of the6328Army are making those changes in order to provide us with the6329combat capability and capacity that we need at scale to create6330the dilemmas that we have to deliver for the Joint Force and6331our adversaries.6332    So, at this point, we are doing the right pivots,6333Congressman, to make sure that we have the right depth that we6334need.63356336                       NATIONAL GUARD COMPONENTS63376338    Mr. Womack. Secretary Hegseth, both of you understand the6339unique value proposition that the National Guard provides the6340Joint Force, having served. And, gosh, for a long time it was6341just me and Hal Rogers up here as the Guard guys. So it is good6342to have some company.6343    As we are looking to be efficient with Federal dollars, I6344always kind of believe that the Guard and the Reserve component6345structure in general brought what I called value to the force.6346I realize it is probably not at the same level of proficiency6347that the Active Duty counterparts might have, but they bring6348value to the force. And, when we need to surge responsibly and6349quickly, then the Guard and Reserve are certainly at the ready6350to do that.6351    My question is pretty simple. Can you both commit to6352ensuring that the National Guard component is resourced and6353equipped properly to meet not only today's operational demands6354but those in the future?6355    And I ask this question having had experience back in the6356day when the National Guard was more or less a Reserve force,6357and it was only after 9/11 that we began to use the National6358Guard in a truly operational form. And I thought it did a lot6359of great things for the Guard. I thought it brought value to6360the force, and I worry sometimes that we may, you know, pivot6361back to the time when the National Guard is relegated to more6362of a Reserve structure rather than able to surge with our6363forces in a moment's need and be able to deliver combat6364capability and combat service support capability when needed.6365    Can you speak to that, Secretary?6366    Secretary Hegseth. Sir, I think it is an excellent point.6367The National Guard and Reserve bring great value, not to6368mention the civilian skills--the additive civilian skills that6369they bring. Completely recognize the shift that happened after63709/11. I was a part of that, as were many people in the Guard of6371our generation.6372    I think we are entering an even--another phase, especially6373under President Trump with his focus on the homeland where the6374National Guard and Reserves become a critical component of how6375we secure that homeland and apply those civilian sets across6376the spectrum.6377    So, when you are looking at, say, the Army, for example,6378what we need in the active Army vis--vis the National Guard6379will not be a reflection of what we need or don't need. It will6380be a rightsizing where that particular application would be6381best used, and the National Guard is a huge component of how we6382see the future, sir.6383    Mr. Womack. General Caine.6384    General Caine. Sir, I will--you know, the policymakers tell6385us what size our force should be, but I will commit to you--6386and, by the way, thank you both for your service in the Guard.6387As a fellow guardsman, you are legendary in those hallways.6388    What I will commit to you is that I will make sure that the6389voice of the Guard is heard at the policy level pursuant to my6390job as the Chairman.6391    Mr. Womack. I yield, Mr. Chairman.6392    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentleman.6393    Mr. Case.63946395                 PEACE AND SECURITY IN THE INDO-PACIFIC63966397    Mr. Case. Thank you, Chair. Mr. Secretary, at the Shangri-6398la Dialogue in your speech of May 31, you stated--and I quote--6399``Here in the Indo-Pacific, our futures are bound together. The6400prosperity and security of the Indo-Pacific are linked to those6401of your people.''6402    You went on to talk about the benefits from the, quote,6403``peace and stability that comes with a lasting and strong6404American presence here in the Indo-Pacific,'' end quote.6405    Do you believe that the only way to achieve our6406contributions to peace and security and stability in the Indo-6407Pacific is through military strength alone?6408    Secretary Hegseth. Sir, certainly not through military6409strength alone, although military strength is the business that6410we are in. So we are building partnerships across mil to mil,6411whether it is the Philippines, Japan, Australia, more actively6412than any other part of the world, because the application of6413American strength is not America alone. It is by, with, and6414through partners who share mutual objectives, and so we are----6415    Mr. Case. So you----6416    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Very invested in military-6417to-military relationships.6418    Mr. Case [continuing]. As the Secretary of Defense, believe6419that we need to take a broader approach in the projection of6420national power, national influence than simply our military. Is6421that correct?6422    Secretary Hegseth. Well, sir, that is not my job. My job is6423the military applications.6424    Mr. Case. Yes.6425    Secretary Hegseth. So others will determine the broader6426spectrum of that, but it is always useful to have other6427applications of power as well.6428    Mr. Case. Okay. But how others actually do that does impact6429your job in running our military, right? I mean, your military6430operations, your military presence, your mil-to-mil6431relationships--that I agree are important--are all going to be6432impacted by our nonmilitary projection of power, influence, and6433assistance throughout the Indo-Pacific. Is that correct?6434    Secretary Hegseth. I would just say that, from my two6435recent visits to that region, meeting with many of those6436ministers of defense multiple times, their focus is what6437capabilities can we share together, interoperability and6438capabilities that establish deterrence because the most6439important message America can still send and they can still6440send is hard power capabilities: What can we project? Where can6441we project it? As the Chairman said, what dilemmas can we6442create?6443    That is the business that we are in. And so we work with6444those partners that share common goals, and our militaries are6445working better together than they ever have, and I think that6446helps support----6447    Mr. Case. And I appreciate your focus on the military side.6448That is, obviously, directly your job.6449    But I am asking you to think and comment more broadly on6450our big picture approach to the world. This administration, for6451example, has proposed to reduce the State Department by $8.36452billion, the Economic Support Fund, the Development Assistance6453and Democracy Fund, and the Assistance for Eurasia.6454    This administration has illegally sought to destroy U.S.6455Agency for International Development and, in its budget6456request, reduce it significantly down to close to zero.6457    This administration has proposed to reducing the6458International Narcotics Control and Law Enforcement effort by6459$1.2 billion. This administration has proposed to eliminate the6460Millennium Challenge Corporation--or not eliminate it but6461reduce it by $1 billion, a significant reduction.6462    One of our principal agencies that assists us with meeting6463the needs of the Indo-Pacific in the infrastructure area and6464what I think you would agree are key strategic countries, such6465as Indonesia, such as Kiribati, such as the Philippines, such6466as the Solomon Islands. This administration has proposed to6467reduce international organization contributions by 83 percent.6468    This administration is not following through on commitments6469that we made to the Freely Associated States, all of which are6470strategically critical to this country to expand veterans6471services in those three countries: Palau, the Federated States6472of Micronesia, and the Marshall Islands.6473    This administration appears to be slow-walking the6474resurgence and expansion of the Peace Corps throughout the6475Indo-Pacific.6476    Do you think that that will affect your job in the military6477space with your relationships with those countries?6478    Secretary Hegseth. No. Sir, I would add to that list the6479elimination of most USAID programs, which I don't hear anything6480about because a lot of them were wasteful and duplicitous--and6481I am glad we got rid of them.6482    Mr. Case. Well, I have had those conversations with----6483    Secretary Hegseth. And, as far as--you mentioned6484international organizations. The 83 percent reduction, again, I6485hear nothing about that because----6486    Mr. Case. Have you talked to those countries----6487    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Those organizations are not6488serving U.S. interests and so----6489    Mr. Case. Secretary, have you talked to those countries?6490    Secretary Hegseth. We shouldn't be funding them if they are6491not serving U.S. interests. So I don't hear from our allies6492problems about that.6493    Mr. Case. Well, I don't think you are talking to the right6494people.6495    Secretary Hegseth. We are not part of their calculus of6496American power.6497    Mr. Case. If you talk to any one of those countries, they6498will tell you that they are deeply concerned with the reduction6499of nondefense dollars, and it will, in fact, influence our6500presence and our contribution to your stated goal of peace and6501stability and security in the Indo-Pacific.6502    Secretary Hegseth. I think they respect that we are6503reducing waste on programs that aren't actually affecting6504change on the ground.6505    Mr. Calvert. The gentleman's time has expired.6506    Mr. Diaz-Balart.65076508                   RECRUITMENT AND SOUTHCOM LOCATION65096510    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Thank you.6511    And, to the three of you, thank you. Thanks for being here6512and thanks for your service.6513    Mr. Secretary, I have two questions. First one is--and you6514mentioned recruitment at the beginning. During the last 46515years, we got used to just hearing how the recruitment was not6516doing well, and it was just the new reality. And then, all of a6517sudden, that reality has changed.6518    If you can comment on why that reality--I think a lot of us6519know, but if you could talk to us about this new reality, which6520you don't hear much about in the press, about how that has6521changed dramatically? Question number one.6522    Question number two is, a number of years ago, SOUTHCOM was6523moved from Panama to south Florida. There is a lot of reasons6524for that move. It was to--because it was in close proximity6525with others, like JIATF South, Special Operations Command South6526in Homestead, Joint Task Force Guantanamo, the Joint Task Force6527Bravo in Honduras, the U.S. Coast Guard Seventh District, which6528is the busiest district in the entire country, but also6529because, in south Florida, you have this multicultural,6530multilingual community.6531    And, as you know, SOUTHCOM deals with multiple countries,653240 different languages. So it was not just a cost savings6533potentially, but it also made a lot of sense. I believe that6534continues to be the case. Nothing has changed. If anything has6535changed, it is that the Western Hemisphere has gotten a lot6536more dangerous. Obviously, we have Iranian influence, Russian6537influence, Chinese influence.6538    I am very grateful, Mr. Secretary--I don't know how much6539you had to do with that--of the President's change in attitude6540on no longer appeasing enemies of the United States in the6541Southern Hemisphere, whether it is Venezuela or Cuba. But,6542again, there goes the importance of having SOUTHCOM where it6543is.6544    I just would like your thoughts, if you have had an6545opportunity to look at that because it was moved from Panama.6546It just wasn't in south Florida for the heck of it. It was a6547decision made. It was the right decision. It has proven to be6548the right decision.6549    So two questions. If you can answer them, I would love to6550hear it.6551    Secretary Hegseth. Sir, thank you for the question about6552recruiting.6553    What changed is a Commander in Chief that America's young6554people believe in. President Trump was elected in November,6555inaugurated in January. At first, I called it the Trump bump,6556but then it became clear that is not enough. This is a tsunami6557of support amongst young Americans who want to serve under a6558President who they know has their back, who will fund them6559properly, who will not use them unnecessarily, and will make6560sure they are part of deterrence for the country with a focus,6561first and foremost, on the homeland, then deterring strengths6562and making sure our allies step up and carry more of the6563burden.6564    So you have got a historic surge in the Army, the Marine6565Corps, Navy, Air Force, you name it. Americans are responding6566because they--there is--the President has a new spirit, and he6567is right. You can feel it in the ranks. You go out to6568formations; you talk to men and women on the border; they6569believe in what they are doing in securing that southern6570border.6571    You talk to them across the world, they are enthused about6572this new administration and its leadership. So it is President6573Trump, sir.6574    As far as SOUTHCOM, it is--President Trump's focus on our6575hemisphere has in many ways reinvigorated the mission of6576SOUTHCOM and the recognition of securing American interests but6577also pushing back Chinese malign influence. Panama is a great6578example of that but across Central and South America.6579    So SOUTHCOM is right where it is. We are grateful for the6580great work that they do. I have had an opportunity to spend a6581lot of time with them and their commander. We work by, with,6582and through a lot of allies----6583    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Mr. Secretary, I am a little confused. Are6584you telling me that the folks that are now voting with their6585commitment to the country are not upset that they are not able6586to use different pronouns? That is not--is that not a priority6587for the folks that are now signing up for our military?6588    Secretary Hegseth. Well, sir, if they wanted to get a woke6589indoctrination, they could just go to college. Instead, they6590are joining the military, where we are focused on the basics.6591We know men are men; women are women.6592    Standards will be high, and we are getting rid of the6593distractions, the ideologies, the politicization that was in6594our ranks so that soldiers, men and women, can do their jobs on6595behalf of the Nation.6596    I think that is all that American people--that is all the6597people who want to serve want is that clarity and that support,6598and President Trump is giving it to them.6599    Mr. Diaz-Balart. Now, Mr. Secretary, I would also add I6600think having you there has made it very clear what the attitude6601is. I will tell you, to me, it is really, really refreshing,6602and I thank you all.6603    Secretary Hegseth. I appreciate that. Thank you, sir.6604    Mr. Diaz-Balart. I yield back.6605    Mr. Calvert. The gentleman yields back.6606    Ms. Lee.66076608                        CRITICAL MINERAL POLICY66096610    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.6611    Thank you for being here.6612    Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to submit to the6613record an article from The New York Times entitled ``China's6614chokehold on this obscure mineral threatens the West's6615militaries.''6616    Mr. Calvert. Without objection.6617    [The information follows:]66186619    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]66206621    Ms. Lee. Mr. Secretary, this article that I just referenced6622outlines how the Department of Defense paid an Australian firm662310 times more than it paid MP Materials, an American firm, to6624onshore the full ecosystem of rare earth production. MP, the6625largest U.S. rare earth producer, has invested $1 billion of6626its own capital since 2020 and employs more than 800 Americans.6627Yet it was undercut by an Australian firm that never even broke6628ground in the U.S. MP Materials is ready to install their6629samarium processing equipment and help the U.S. combat China's6630export controls.6631    And I want to note that China produces the entire world6632supply of this obscure rare earth metal that is used almost6633entirely in military applications because of its heat-6634resistant--its use in heat-resistance magnets.6635    So my question is, in accordance with the administration's6636America First agenda, do you agree that subsidies should first6637support U.S. companies already investing, hiring, and paying6638taxes in the United States? And can I have your support in6639ensuring that the Department critical mineral policies will6640align with this goal?6641    Secretary Hegseth. Ma'am, it is an excellent question. It6642is something we have been very focused on. In fact, my Deputy6643Secretary, it is his A number one, is ensuring that sourcing of6644critical minerals, whether they are heavy or light rare earths,6645are sourced reliably in America first, and, if not, then6646amongst allies.6647    I won't reveal or talk about more than that in a setting6648like this because we have reserves, and we have capabilities,6649but at the same time, we have to aggressively work--and MP6650Materials, Mountain Pass, is a great example of a place where6651we can partner with industry.6652    But what does China do? You know this. China undercuts the6653market intentionally to try to corner the market, and we have6654to account for that in the things that we support.6655    Ms. Lee. So the answer is yes; I can have your support?6656    Secretary Hegseth. Yes, ma'am.66576658                     COLLABORATIVE COMBAT AIRCRAFT66596660    Ms. Lee. Thank you. I also want to turn now to the6661Collaborative Combat Aircraft.6662    I represent Las Vegas, Nevada, so we are very excited that6663the Department will base the CCA unit at Creech Air Force Base,6664which is the center of excellence in uncrewed aircraft systems.6665And I want to make sure that the Department has the resources6666they need to make this program a success.6667    Last year, the Air Force had to shift $383 million to the6668CCA program, plussing it up by 60 percent. Can you assure me6669that your budget request will fully fund the CCA program this6670year?6671    Secretary Hegseth. Ma'am, it does fully fund the CCA, and6672we believe in the Collaborative Combat Aircraft, the loyal6673wingman concept, this idea that you project power more robustly6674through autonomous, semiautonomous systems that we can--that6675amplify our lethal effect. So, yes.6676    Ms. Lee. Thank you. Great. Can you give me an update on the6677first--what the first flight in the production decision for6678Increment 1, and are we on track for the flight? When will it6679be?6680    And, finally, when do you anticipate the production6681decision this fiscal year? What quantity of aircraft will we6682procure? How many vendors will you award, and what factors are6683you considering?6684    Secretary Hegseth. Bryn, feel free to chime in. You are6685talking about the CCA still, correct?6686    Ms. Lee. Yes.6687    Secretary Hegseth. My understanding is later this year on6688the flight.6689    Ms. Lee. Do you know the date?6690    Secretary Hegseth. As far as the--I don't know the exact6691date, ma'am. But, Bryn, you might know.6692    Ms. MacDonnell. Yes, ma'am. We can get back to you on the6693specific date. It should be this fiscal year.6694    And, for our budget request, it is $804 million for the6695Collaborative Combat Aircraft.6696    Ms. Lee. Great. Thank you. How much time do I have left?6697    I will just--also, can you then outline what is planned for6698Increment 2? What type of capabilities can we expect, and what6699timeline in critical milestones?6700    Secretary Hegseth. We will get back to you on that one,6701ma'am.6702    Ms. Lee. Okay. Thank you.6703    With that, I yield.6704    Mr. Calvert. Thank the gentlelady.6705    And I would just like to point out that Mountain Pass is in6706San Bernardino County, California, one of the only--critical6707mineral mines only left in the United States. Hopefully, that6708will change soon.6709    Mr. Joyce, nope. Mr. Ellzey.67106711                          INVESTMENT IN F/A-XX67126713    Mr. Ellzey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.6714    Sergeant Major Troy Black, thank you for all your years of6715service. You have been serving this country since Ronald Reagan6716was President in 1988.6717    You leave behind a distinguished career in uniform, wearing6718that uniform, service to your country. You have served as the6719senior enlisted adviser to the Commandant of the Marine Corps6720and now to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.6721    And I think that what will be most missed, if you didn't6722know this about him, in 2010, he received the Bronze Star with6723a Combat V for running across several hundred yards of mine-in-6724place fields to pick up a fallen Marine.6725    You are a Marine's marine. You will be missed. You are the6726pride of Louisville, Kentucky, and I would like to say, on6727behalf of this committee and our Nation, we are grateful and6728fair winds and following seas.6729    [Applause.]6730    Mr. Ellzey. Secretary Hegseth and General Caine and Ms.6731MacDonnell, glad you are here. I am personally grateful for6732your service to our country and for sharing your valuable time6733with us today.6734    You bring a nontraditional perspective to your tenure as6735Chairman, having been a guardsman and an entrepreneur. Thank6736you for saying ``yes'' once again when called to serve; also, a6737Distinguished Flying Cross and two Bronze Stars. You didn't get6738that by sitting behind a desk. You are a fighter pilot's6739fighter pilot. You helped the plan to bring down Scuds in 2003.6740So thank you for your service.6741    And, Mr. Secretary, I want to salute you for your6742leadership and action-oriented approach at the Pentagon. You6743have created a sense of urgency that General Caine refers to in6744his testimony. And, back to the issue of what we are not6745talking about today, and it is recruitment, because, in this6746family business, all-volunteer-force of ours, parents and their6747children who want to serve our country are now no longer afraid6748to sign up for fear of them being misused or not having their6749merit being rewarded appropriately. So thank you.6750    You have also highlighted our service academies in that6751effort. Mr. Womack and I both serve on the Boards of Visitors6752at West Point and the Naval Academy, so thank you.6753    Also appreciate your guidance on using commercial solutions6754and acquisition and on reducing the inflation that we have seen6755in the numbers of flag and general officers. And I think we can6756make the Pentagon a triangle pretty quick.6757    There are more Navy admirals in the various systems6758commands than there are in the fleet. That is too many flags in6759D.C. and not enough at the waterfront or the flight line.6760Speaking of acquisition, I want to turn to the plans of a6761sixth-generation fighter.6762    General Caine, in his prepared statement, states that the6763F-47 will continue to ensure U.S. air dominance for decades. I6764am a fervent supporter of not only F-47 but whatever the F/A-XX6765is going to turn out to be. And I want to make that clear to6766everyone listening.6767    Our Navy, our Joint Force, and our future combatant6768commanders need the Navy's sixth-generation fighter, the F/A-6769XX. Relying only on the Air Force's sixth-generation fighter6770does not solve our air superiority challenge because whether6771they are coming from Guam or Diego Garcia, the DMPIs are6772already set and the missiles are already guided. It is a6773nonmoving target. An aircraft carrier moves its DMPI every 306774seconds.6775    So we can't do either of those with only the Air Force's6776planned buy. So we either want to win or we don't, and I know6777we want to win. We have to do it with the F/A-XX.6778    A 3-year delay is a de facto cancellation and win for6779China, and they are watching. Don't take my word for it. They6780are conducting unrestricted warfare against us right now.6781    And, if you read the Thirty-Six guidelines from the Sixth6782Century and they talk about how do you defeat an enemy--or Sun6783Tzu--you defeat them at home with fentanyl, by taking out our6784military members before they can even join, 70,000 a year. They6785are being successful in how they are doing unrestricted6786warfare, and that is exactly what they are conducting.6787    They are also showing us their sixth-generation aircraft6788right now. And there is at least three that we know they are6789working on. We can't give the field to them and say, ``Fifth-6790generation is okay for the Navy, but it is not the Air Force.''6791We must have both.6792    So several well-informed, well-respected leaders shared6793with us the importance of having both the Air Force and the6794Navy sixth-generation fighters, Admiral Paparo, General Allvin,6795and Admiral Kilby, acting CNO.6796    I am not going to put you all on the spot, but I just want6797to make it clear. If you would like to address it, you may. I6798am just putting it that it is that important to me.6799    So what troubles me about the Pentagon needing to be a6800triangle now is that--one of my favorite movies is ``Office6801Space.'' You remember Milton? Milton down there with the6802Swingline? We are not really sure what he did, but he sure made6803a lot of trouble for everybody.6804    I think we have a lot of Miltons in the systems commands6805and down there in the Pentagon, maybe at CAPE, who are telling6806you that we can't do something when we absolutely can. They6807need to go. So let's get rid of Milton. Let's invest in this6808generational investment.6809    I would like to thank General Calvert--Chairman Calvert--6810Chairman Calvert for his investment into the F/A-XX and the6811bill and present to this subcommittee later today.6812    So thank you all. Appreciate it.6813    Mr. Calvert. Go Navy. Mr. Morelle, you are recognized.68146815                       PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST68166817    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, General--Chairman. I am grateful6818for your service and grateful, Mr. Chairman, for the hearing6819today.6820    I don't want to pile on, Mr. Secretary, and I am brandnew6821to this subcommittee, but I will say that, in the same way we6822wouldn't go into battle without knowing the number of troops,6823weaponry, and the number of armaments, equipment, supplies, it6824is really almost impossible for this committee to do its job6825without details from the President, from the Department on a6826budget request.6827    So I wonder whether or not we can get a commitment from all6828of you to come back before the committee when the full--the6829budget--the President's budget request has been delivered, so6830you can answer questions in detail about it?6831    Secretary Hegseth. I certainly will make sure you get those6832details, Congressman.6833    Mr. Morelle. Well, getting the details is important, but6834also being able to answer questions about those details and6835what they mean, I think, would be helpful. So, obviously, this6836is the chairman's decision, but I would ask you to consider6837coming back before the committee when the President's budget6838request is submitted to us so we can get your sense of the6839various items in it.6840    I want to go back to a topic I think Ms. Kaptur raised,6841which is Ukraine, and I really appreciate your comment when you6842referred to partners on our side like Ukraine--so I am glad we6843still consider them partners on our side.68446845                                UKRAINE68466847    Last week, the Ukraine Defense Contact Group met in6848Brussels. I know we did not attend; you did not attend. And I6849don't believe you appeared even remotely, but that was a6850meeting which allies coordinated billions in aid to help6851Ukraine.6852    We are talking about funding right now without a budget,6853without a plan, to setting U.S. support in what I consider the6854most serious conflict in Europe in a generation. So can you at6855least give us a sense, Mr. Secretary, of the Presidential6856drawdown aid authorized through January 20, do you know how6857much has actually been delivered?6858    Secretary Hegseth. Which----6859    Mr. Morelle. The Presidential authority that was given6860through January 20 when the new administration took over.6861    Secretary Hegseth. The ongoing PDA 71 through 74 and 75,6862which has not been allocated. We are in the middle of drawdown686371 through 74----6864    Mr. Morelle. Okay. Do you have a sense of how much has6865actually been delivered?6866    Secretary Hegseth. I don't know the exact amount that has6867been delivered, but we are actively monitoring as well as the6868life span of certain munitions, munitions which remain critical6869for us and them and critical for Allied Israel. We are paying6870very close attention to the----6871    Mr. Morelle. Okay. And you can give us the details?6872    Secretary Hegseth. Yes, sir.6873    Mr. Morelle. Thank you. Do you know whether the Department6874is prepared to ask for funding for the Ukraine Security6875Assistance Initiative and at what level?6876    Secretary Hegseth. It is a reduction in this budget. As you6877know, this administration takes a very different view of that6878conflict. We believe that a negotiated peaceful settlement is6879in the best interest of both parties and our Nation's interest,6880especially with all the competing interests around the globe.6881    I don't think the word victory has been well-defined or the6882path to it. And, as a result, a path to peace that stops the6883killing and the carnage is something that President Trump is6884very invested in.6885    Mr. Morelle. Well, I would certainly--I think I would6886define victory as making sure incursions--illegal incursions by6887the Russian Federation into Ukraine, which is a sovereign6888nation, would be a victory, but I will leave that aside.68896890                              GOLDEN DOME68916892    I want to just touch briefly with the limited time I have,6893the President's announced $175 billion Golden Dome that has6894been talked about, I know that--what has been talked about, we6895understand that reconciliation includes a $25 billion6896downpayment. We haven't really received much in clarity on the6897specifics.6898    Can you tell me what the $25 billion will be used for?6899    Secretary Hegseth. Well, sir, there are many specifics that6900are not fitting for this setting. We are happy to get you at6901the appropriate level the specifics you request.6902    But what we have done is we have built out the entire6903understanding of what the architecture would look like ensuring6904it includes existing capabilities that could be fielded6905rapidly, as President Trump has made the case. We need this6906now, not conceptually in the future.6907    We had SDI under Ronald Reagan, which was a conceptual,6908which was a concept. We fast forward to the ability to deliver6909these things, and the American people deserve that kind of6910protection.6911    So multiple layers from multiple different types of threats6912coordinated with sensors both on the ground and in space at6913other layers. And we have one of our best Space Force generals6914fully focused on that project in General Guetlein, who has a6915background in understanding those types of architectures.6916    So we have pulled the program up to the Office of Secretary6917of Defense to make sure it is monitored on a monthly--well, a--6918--6919    Mr. Morelle. Can you tell us what the appropriations6920request will be for Golden Dome in the 2026 fiscal year?6921    Mr. Calvert. The gentleman--Ms. MacDonnell, you can get6922back to us on that----6923    Ms. MacDonnell. Yes, sir.6924    Mr. Calvert [continuing]. For the record. We appreciate6925that.6926    Mr. Fleischmann, you are recognized.69276928                        NUCLEAR RECAPITALIZATION69296930    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.6931    I want to welcome Secretary Hegseth, General Caine and Mrs.6932MacDonnell. Thank you. This has been an outstanding hearing.6933    Let me just say this: The world is a dangerous place. The6934Nation is a dangerous place. Heartfelt thank you to each and6935every one of you officers stepping up and for doing an6936exemplary job. Thank you so much.6937    As most of you know, I represent the Third District of6938Tennessee. That is the great Oak Ridge Reservation, birthplace6939of the Manhattan Project.6940    In addition to serving on this prestigious subcommittee, I6941am the chairman of the Energy and Water Subcommittee, which has6942the NNSA. I am deeply involved in the recapitalization and6943modernization of our Nation's nuclear deterrent.6944    It will come as no surprise I have concerns about both our6945progress and posture. Our progress is a concern as we are6946recapitalizing the entire nuclear deterrent all at once.6947Meanwhile, Russia has recapitalized its triad minus some6948bombers, and China is rapidly expanding its numbers and6949fielding a triad. Of course, there is also North Korea and the6950looming prospect of a nuclear Iran.6951    As we focus more on the Pacific or post Cold War posture,6952it is a concern due to the lack of in-theater nonstrategic6953nuclear weapons. This creates a deeply worrying capability gap6954in the most critical theater.6955    I will ask my questions in this, ask for your answers.6956First, Secretary Hegseth, given the struggling strategics6957threat picture, what is your outlook on the current pace and6958scope of nuclear recapitalization?6959    And then, General Caine, what are your ideas to fill this6960nonstrategic nuclear capability gap in the Pacific? Are there6961any ways Congress can better support the Department's efforts6962to meet these increasingly tight deadlines?6963    And I will listen to your responses. Thank you.6964    Secretary Hegseth. Sir, thank you. First, if I would just6965take liberty, both the Chairman and I have taken up almost all6966the oxygen from Bryn MacDonnell here. I would just take issue6967with the characterization that we have not delivered a budget6968and we don't have details and we are not delivering on it. She6969and her team have done a fantastic job of working as rapidly6970and as detailed as possible to deliver what we feel very6971confidently is a robust, detailed delivery of the President's6972agenda for fiscal year 2026.6973    So, Bryn, thank you for the work that you are doing and all6974the details and focus on that that have come through.6975    And the nuclear triad is certainly a part of it, NC3, every6976single aspect of that. Sentinel, with the Nunn-McCurdy breach6977has to--we are taking a very hard look at that while fully6978funding it. Columbiaclass, critical, B-21, which, for6979the most part, has been a success story but needs to be6980continually monitored, as any major platform does, and then the6981SLCM-N as well, investing in that capability, considering the6982advantages we have on the submarine side.6983    So we are fully funding, in fact even more so in most6984cases, that capitalization and modernization, which we have to,6985considering what our adversaries are up to.6986    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you, sir.6987    General Caine. Sir, I just echo the Secretary's comments6988about nonstrategic nuclear weapons, SLCM-N and the others. And6989I think it really for me centers around four Cs that we have to6990do across the enterprise: Change of culture, to get after it6991faster. That is the first one. We have got to create6992competition across the continuum and the defense and national6993industrial base. We need to buy better contracts and get6994greater capacity.6995    So no adds other than that, Congressman.6996    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you. So, if I may, you all feel6997reasonably comfortable with the way that we are modernizing our6998triad?6999    Secretary Hegseth. Well, sir, I am not comfortable with the7000way the Sentinel upgrade had been happening.7001    Mr. Fleischmann. Understood.7002    Secretary Hegseth. With the recognition that it is behind7003and can't be. And so we are getting at dynamic ways to address7004that. Different alternatives, our Deputy Secretary and his team7005are very focused, along with Bryn: What do we fund? Why do we7006fund it? How do we look at new ways to do it? Because the way7007we have approached it so far has gotten us nowhere fast.7008    Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you. By the way, I welcome you all7009to visit Oak Ridge at any time.7010    Thank you, and I will yield back.7011    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentleman.7012    Mr. Aguilar.70137014                       NATIONAL GUARD DEPLOYMENTS70157016    Mr. Aguilar. Thank you, Chairman General Calvert.7017    Mr. Calvert. That is right.7018    Mr. Aguilar. Thanks to the witnesses for being here.7019    Mr. Calvert. Okay, Private, go ahead.7020    Mr. Aguilar. The clock is still moving.7021    Mr. Secretary, I want to express my severe concern with the7022deployment of the National Guard in Los Angeles without7023consultation with the State of California. There have been7024photographs that have shown these troops sleeping on the floor7025and have not been provided fuel, food, or water by DOD.7026    How long will this deployment last? And why were we7027unprepared to provide them basic necessities such as food and7028water?7029    Secretary Hegseth. The commanders and troops on the field7030are very well-prepared, sir. They responded incredibly rapidly7031to a deteriorating situation, with equipment and capabilities.7032    We have made sure, from the top down--as a Secretary of7033Defense who has been in a unit holding riot shields outside the7034White House during the chaos of the summer of 2020, I know what7035it is like to be immediately deployed into a situation like7036that.7037    There are moments where you make do as best you can7038temporarily. But we are ensuring they are housed, fed, water,7039capabilities in real-time from my office, because I care that7040much about the California Guard and the Marines and the men and7041women who are supporting----7042    Mr. Aguilar. That wasn't true as of yesterday----7043    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Our ICE agents on the7044ground.7045    Mr. Aguilar [continuing]. So you should check with your7046office.7047    Secretary Hegseth. It is true every day. And that is a7048disingenuous----7049    Mr. Aguilar. How long will the deployment last?7050    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Attack that misrepresents7051how much we care about our troops----7052    Mr. Aguilar. How long will the deployment last?7053    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. And what they are doing to7054defend ICE agents. I am not going to take the fact that we7055don't care about the troops. Nobody cares more about the troops7056at the top than this----7057    Mr. Aguilar. Reclaiming my time, Mr. Secretary----7058    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Secretary and the Chairman7059and our department.7060    Mr. Aguilar [continuing]. How long will the deployment7061last?7062    Secretary Hegseth. We stated very publicly that it is 607063days, because we want to ensure that those rioters, looters,7064and thugs on the other side assaulting our police officers----7065    Mr. Aguilar. What is the estimated cost----7066    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Know that we are not going7067anywhere----7068    Mr. Aguilar. What is the estimated----7069    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. We are here to maintain the7070peace on behalf of law enforcement officers----7071    Mr. Aguilar. Mr. Chair----7072    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. In Los Angeles----7073    Mr. Aguilar. Appreciate you answering the question.7074    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Which Gavin Newsom won't7075do.7076    Mr. Aguilar. What is the estimated cost of the deployment7077for the Guard and the Marines to L.A.? And where is this7078funding coming from? Will it be coming from quality-of-life7079programs----7080    Secretary Hegseth. I think----7081    Mr. Aguilar [continuing]. That affect our servicemembers or7082our families--if you want to wait until I finish the question--7083--7084    Secretary Hegseth. Before I hand it to----7085    Mr. Aguilar [continuing]. Such as updates, housing, and7086barracks?7087    Secretary Hegseth. Before I hand it to Bryn, the7088insinuation that we are pulling money from housing and barracks7089in order to fund this is----7090    Mr. Aguilar. We are just asking.7091    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Disingenuous and incorrect.7092    Mr. Aguilar. I am just asking.7093    Secretary Hegseth. Bryn can give you the numbers,7094absolutely.7095    Ms. MacDonnell. So the current estimated cost is $1347096million, which is largely just TDY cost--travel, housing, food,7097et cetera.7098    Mr. Aguilar. Where is it coming from? That is the cost, but7099where is it coming from?7100    Ms. MacDonnell. Out of their O&M accounts.7101    Mr. Aguilar. With the most recent deployment of the7102Marines, Mr. Secretary, what is the justification for using the7103military for civilian law enforcement purposes in L.A.? Why are7104you sending warfighters to cities to interact with civilians?7105    Secretary Hegseth. Every American citizen deserves to live7106in a community that is safe. And ICE agents need to be able to7107do their job. They are being attacked for doing their job,7108which is deporting illegal criminals.7109    That should happen in any city, Minneapolis or Los Angeles.7110And if they are attacked, that is lawless. And President Trump7111believes in law and order. So he has every authority, and he7112has done, mobilizing----7113    Mr. Aguilar. He hasn't cited----7114    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. National Guard or Active7115Duty troops under U.S. Code----7116    Mr. Aguilar. Yeah. Let's talk about----7117    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. To protect Federal agents--7118--7119    Mr. Aguilar. Let's talk about the U.S. Code.7120    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Agents in their job, which7121is----7122    Mr. Aguilar. Let's talk about U.S. Code. 10----7123    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Exactly what we are doing,7124and we are proud to do it.7125    Mr. Aguilar. 10 U.S.C.----7126    Secretary Hegseth. We are proud to do it.7127    Mr. Aguilar. Mr. Secretary, 10 U.S.C. of the U.S. Code,712812406, as a legal basis that the President used, cites three7129examples and circumstances for the Guard: invasion by a foreign7130nation, a rebellion or dangerous rebellion against the7131authority of the Government of the United States, or the7132President is unable with regular forces to execute the laws of7133the United States.7134    Which authority is triggered here to justify the use?7135    Secretary Hegseth. I don't know. You just read it yourself,7136and people can listen themselves, but it sounds like all three7137to me.7138    If you have got millions of illegals----7139    Mr. Aguilar. You think the President is unable to----7140    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. And you don't know where7141they are coming from----7142    Mr. Aguilar [continuing]. Execute the laws of the United7143States?7144    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. They are waving flags from7145foreign countries----7146    Mr. Aguilar. You just said----7147    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. And assaulting police7148officers and law----7149    Mr. Aguilar. You just said that the President is unable----7150    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Enforcement officers, that7151is a problem.7152    Mr. Aguilar [continuing]. To execute the laws of the United7153States?7154    Secretary Hegseth. No. The Governor of California is unable7155to execute----7156    Mr. Aguilar. Well, the Code says----7157    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. The laws of the United7158States.7159    Mr. Aguilar. The Code says the President----7160    Secretary Hegseth. The Governor----7161    Mr. Aguilar [continuing]. And you said all three apply.7162    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Of California has failed to7163protect his people, along with the mayor of Los Angeles. And so7164President Trump has said he will protect our agents, and our7165Guard and Marines are proud to do it.7166    Mr. Aguilar. The law also says, Mr. Secretary, that the7167``orders for these purposes shall be issued through the7168Governors of the States.''7169    Secretary Hegseth. You and I both know that President Trump7170has all the authorities necessary, and thankfully he is willing7171to do it, on behalf of the citizens of Los Angeles----7172    Mr. Aguilar. You also----7173    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. On behalf of our ICE7174agents, on behalf of our country.7175    Mr. Aguilar. We have also pulled a billion dollars for the7176border as well. So this just goes into the same, you know,7177fund? 134----7178    Secretary Hegseth. Congressman, what is the----7179    Mr. Aguilar. What did you indicate? 134 million?7180    I was asking Ms. MacDonnell.7181    Secretary Hegseth. Okay.7182    Mr. Aguilar. 134 million goes on top of the billion that7183has been pulled for the border?7184    Ms. MacDonnell. So the funding that was pulled for this7185year was largely in FSRM, and in this budget we are actually7186looking to plus that funding back up to backfill that for our7187troops and for their families.7188    Mr. Aguilar. Thank you.7189    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.7190    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentleman.7191    Mr. Valadao.71927193                    GLOBAL HOUSEHOLD GOODS CONTRACT71947195    Mr. Valadao. Thank you, Chairman.7196    Thank you, Secretary, thank you, General, thank you, Ms.7197MacDonnell, for being here.7198    I know a lot of things have been asked already, and since I7199am the bottom of the totem pole in seniority here, all my7200questions get asked first, so I will hit one that is a little7201closer to home for me.7202    Secretary Hegseth, thank you for addressing the challenges7203military families have faced under the Global Household Goods7204Contract. I have heard directly from my constituents about7205these issues, so I appreciate your direct--I have heard7206directly from my constituents, so I appreciate your directive7207to review the contract and raise rates during peak PCS season.7208    Can you commit to continuing to work with us to monitor the7209impact and make further improvements as needed?7210    Secretary Hegseth. Sir, I appreciate the question.7211    We heard, as well, the worsening PCS change-of-station7212process that military members are facing, that the new attempt7213to reform it had failed. And we got that word quickly.7214    And when we did that, we didn't try to excuse it away or7215cover it up; we immediately confronted the process. We fired7216the person in charge. And we said, we are going to, in this7217peak season, plus up the amount we reimburse so that families7218are reimbursed properly. And we use both systems, the legacy7219system and the new system, to ensure their needs are actually7220met.7221    At the end of that process, we will then do a thorough7222reform of how it actually happens. It hasn't worked for far too7223long. Everybody knows it. It is about time we take a look at7224the process.7225    I mean, think about the things we can deliver in real-time7226to people in far-flung places across the country and across the7227world, and you can't reliably move an E4 from California to New7228York and ensure that the goods get there within a week? That is7229a failure of the United States military, and we are going to7230fix it.72317232                        DEFENSE INDUSTRIAL BASE72337234    Mr. Valadao. I appreciate that.7235    Next question: Secretary Hegseth, with rising tensions7236involving Russia and China, what steps is the Department taking7237to ensure our defense industrial base can meet the surge in7238demands across multiple theaters?7239    Are we seeing adequate investments in munitions stockpiles,7240logistics, and supply-chain resilience, and particularly when7241it comes to critical inputs like rare-earths and other7242essential minerals?7243    Secretary Hegseth. I would just echo exactly what you said.7244It is because of the urgency of the moment, the reality of the7245threats we face. The threats that are joining forces in sort of7246an anti-American, anti-Western bloc are developing capabilities7247that they are fielding and trying in other theaters to refine7248them.7249    The munitions that we have, where we use them, how we7250procure them, and what we use them for, the supply chain that7251goes into the materials on those munitions, unfortunately we7252inherited a Department that didn't pay enough attention to7253that, that seemed to think sourcing from adversaries was going7254to be okay in a time of contingency or crisis. We are changing7255that.7256    Or were content to make the same munitions we have had in7257the past because, well, they were made in somebody's district7258or they were made in somebody's State and that is the way we7259always do it. We are not doing that anymore. We are making the7260tough calls based on the threats we face, matching it to the7261capabilities.7262    And I am happy to sit in front of every and any committee7263and explain why we are doing it. Because it is about time; it7264is about time we challenge that. And that doesn't mean we don't7265want input. We do want input. We know why people are invested7266in certain programs and certain systems. But it is our job to7267make the tough calls.7268    And President Trump has asked us to do that. I am willing7269to make the tough calls, whether it is on personnel, systems,7270platforms, modernization, and partner with folks like General7271Caine and the Joint Staff, who have been with us on every step7272of the way.72737274                       HYPERSONICS AND MUNITIONS72757276    Mr. Valadao. I appreciate that.7277    I have a little more time, so, Secretary Hegseth, as the7278Department looks to stay ahead of near-peer threats, will the7279defense budget continue to invest in hypersonic weapons and7280defense systems, including unmanned, high-mach, and next-gen7281aviation technologies?7282    Secretary Hegseth. The answer is, yes, in a way,7283unfortunately, the previous administration did not.7284    So, if you are looking at--long-range fires, autonomous7285systems, hypersonics are part of warfare--long-range drones--7286are part of the warfare of the future. That means we are7287investing in them to be better than our adversaries. Not accept7288the fact that we have matching capabilities, but what more can7289we do to enhance those so we are ahead of the curve?7290    Because when President Trump says we have the best7291platforms, the best systems, the best fighters, the best ships,7292the best vehicles, he means it, and we mean business on it, and7293we are going to deliver it.7294    Mr. Valadao. All right. Thank you.7295    And I have 30 seconds. So, General Caine, if Congress had 17296extra dollar to invest today most effectively to strengthen our7297deterrence posture against China, Russia, and threats in the7298Middle East, where should it go? Twenty seconds.7299    General Caine. Wow. I am going to take 19 of those,7300Congressman.7301    Probably--probably in munitions. I don't know how much we7302would buy for $1, but I would want to make sure that the joint7303force is properly armed, at scale, at the tactical edge, and7304the youngsters that volunteer to serve have what they need.7305    Mr. Valadao. I appreciate that.7306    Thank you, Chairman. I yield back.7307    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentleman.7308    Mr. Joyce.73097310                PREPOSITIONED STOCKS IN THE INDO-PACIFIC73117312    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, Chairman.7313    Secretary, everybody, I appreciate it. We had to go out to7314other--you won't believe this, but there are other hearings7315taking place. So I went over to bug Secretary Turner and now7316came back, so it is your turn.7317    Secretary Hegseth, your April 30th memo on Army7318transformation and acquisition reform directs the Army to7319expand prepositioned stocks of equipment to the Indo-Pacific. I7320expect we would need to enhance our industrial-base capacity to7321support this effort.7322    Could you discuss the importance of increasing7323prepositioned stocks in the Indo-Pacific and how this affects7324the Army's resources for fiscal year 2026?7325    Secretary Hegseth. It is a great question, because it7326marries up two things that need to be linked and synched and7327often aren't--right?--the capabilities that we have in the7328priority theater and where we preposition those capabilities.7329    So my job exists on multiple axes of that. One is working7330with allies and partners to make sure we have places to7331preposition them----7332    Mr. Joyce. Uh-huh.7333    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. Many of which we can't talk7334about here today. But in the event of a contingency, we can't7335be relying on a supply chain that reaches all the way back to7336the States or even to Hawaii or even to Guam. You need to7337recognize the prepositioning of stocks.7338    But then you have to have those stocks, and they have to be7339the relevant ones for the systems that you are deploying, and7340you need a defense industrial base to deliver on that. Which is7341why we have made historic investments in munitions, focusing on7342priority munitions that would be applied in our priority7343theater, with a recognition that every munition we spend7344somewhere else--and I say that as someone who--very proudly. We7345conducted a very successful freedom-of-navigation campaign7346against the Houthis to ensure that our ships don't--and, by the7347way, two of our ships transited the BAM successfully and the7348cease-fire held, very recently.7349    So it doesn't mean you don't expend munitions. You7350judiciously expend them, with an understanding that you have to7351safeguard others for future fights and prepositioning, and then7352invest in your industrial base.7353    And I think that is why you see a budget with a 13-percent7354increase. A 13-percent increase in a defense budget is7355significant and allows us to both invest in the President's7356priorities and fast-track munitions that we are going to need.73577358                    CONTESTED LOGISTICS CAPABILITIES73597360    Mr. Joyce. For a guy chairing a committee that has to cut7361his by 57 percent, I can tell you that being plus-13 is a lucky7362day.7363    General Caine, our forces face growing challenges7364sustaining operations across contested environments,7365particularly in the Indo-Pacific. China is investing in7366capabilities designed to disrupt supply lines, access to7367forward operating bases, and target critical logistics nodes.7368    What steps are you taking to strengthen contested logistics7369capabilities? And what investments can Congress make to ensure7370that you have operational resilience?7371    General Caine. Well, Congressman, thanks for the question.7372    You know, history tells us that the professionals talk7373about logistics. And that is what was the big differentiator7374between us and our adversaries in World War II, was really the7375logistics power.7376    You know, our teammates within the joint force are looking7377carefully at this right now. And as we look at the adversaries'7378threat arrays that they have and our ability to defeat them and7379move the combat capacity that we need to through those7380difficult places is a key part of that.7381    I don't have a specific number for you, but what I will7382commit is, as we think through what contested logistics looks7383like, as we think through what forward supply points on the7384First and Second Island Chain might look like, we will stay7385close with the committee to make sure that we are communicating7386early, often, and always about what our needs are.7387    Mr. Joyce. Well, I certainly appreciate that.7388    And I would throw out that, having a small Air Force7389Reserve airport in Youngstown, Ohio, area----7390    General Caine. Some great C-130Js up there----7391    Mr. Joyce. Thank you.7392    General Caine [continuing]. Congressman. Yeah. Yeah.7393    Mr. Joyce. Appreciate the help on their fire department for7394the new inventory we got.7395    But the old stuff we had there, you had maybe eight planes.7396They were cannibalizing three to feed the five, because we7397didn't have parts in storage----7398    General Caine. Yes, sir.7399    Mr. Joyce [continuing]. And those type of things.7400    And I think that has played out in other areas for us as7401well. And we need to not only make sure we have the7402manufacturing industrial base but we also have the ability to7403have the parts and inventory to keep all those things on line,7404or we have to remove them from service.7405    General Caine. Yes, sir. I know General Allvin and the team7406at the Air Force is looking hard at that, too, to make sure7407that we have the right stuff on the shelf prior to that we7408need, not just in the C-130 community but the other airframes7409within the Air Force and, frankly, the joint force.7410    Parts are always going to be a driver. And I am really7411encouraged by the innovation that is happening to look at7412things like additive manufacturing, where we get a hold of the7413specs from companies like Lockheed and others and can just 3D-7414print right on the spot the requirement.7415    Mr. Joyce. Those have to be in any procurement you do from7416now on that----7417    General Caine. Yes, sir. I think so, sir. You know, the7418force of the future will fix on the spot, so they will need to7419be able to have the parts right there.7420    And as we look at mission command and delegating7421authorities and responsibilities to our younger commanders and,7422you know, complex command-and-control problems, part of that is7423going to be the ability to sustain our force out there at the7424edge.7425    Mr. Joyce. Thank you very much, General.7426    General Caine. Yes, sir. Thank you.7427    Mr. Joyce. I yield back.7428    Mr. Calvert. And thinking of logistics, it made me think-7429of--what was it?--General Marshall, who went out in the 1930s7430and met with a young lieutenant colonel and said, ``He is the7431best logistics officer I have ever met.'' And that was General7432Eisenhower. Three years later, he was a four-star general. So7433logistics are important.7434    Mr. Aderholt, you are recognized.74357436                         GOLDEN DOME INITIATIVE74377438    Mr. Aderholt. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.7439    And thanks, everyone, for being here this morning.7440    And as we wrap up the hearing today, let me say that the7441Golden Dome initiative represents, in my opinion, a substantial7442investment in our national security. And I credit this7443administration in pursuing this bold project, and I share your7444ambition for it. So thank you for moving forward on that.7445    I want to follow up with my--from my colleague from New7446York. The President has said that he has chosen an option that7447will total $175 billion. Can you confirm that number? And when7448do you hope to make this system of systems operational?7449    Secretary Hegseth. I will have Bryn confirm it, but our7450belief is that 175 is the totality, that this is the initial7451investment, but that a lot of the investment will eventually be7452in systems, some of which are already in production, and we7453will need to ramp up the production of them.7454    Because the President has charged us with having this7455mission-capable by the end of his term. This is not something7456that is futuristic. This is not something that will happen in7457some distant future based on some technology we don't yet have7458or can't field.7459    Our approach to Golden Dome will be making sure we can7460procure existing layers that can talk to each other, with new7461layers on top, because this is a layered system, as was7462mentioned----7463    Mr. Aderholt. Uh-huh.7464    Secretary Hegseth [continuing]. To include drones as well,7465in partnership with the services.7466    So can you confirm that, Bryn?7467    Ms. MacDonnell. Yes, sir. Nothing to add. That is all7468accurate.7469    And we are still planning towards what the final number is,7470but the $24.8 billion we are requesting this year is that7471downpayment on the near-term capabilities that we are looking7472at as part of the architecture.74737474                           AUKUS PARTNERSHIP74757476    Mr. Aderholt. Okay. Thank you.7477    Let me switch over, and I would like to get your thoughts7478on the AUKUS partnership, not merely as a cornerstone for our7479Indo-Pacific defense strategy but also as an opportunity for7480our defense industrial base.7481    And, in fact, we have heard from a lot of Australian and7482U.K. businesses who are ready, willing, and able to move7483production to the U.S. given the new regulatory framework under7484Pillar 2. Britain and Australia set the standard for defense7485cooperation, bringing real capability and firepower to the7486fight.7487    Can you preview how this administration intends to fund7488Pillar 2 efforts to develop and field joint capabilities7489between all three partners?7490    Secretary Hegseth. It is a great question, sir.7491    I have spent a great deal of time with both Minister of7492Defence Marles from Australia as well as Secretary of Defence7493Healey from the U.K. to really get our arms around what would7494be mutually beneficial in this trilateral arrangement.7495    So there is the recognition with Australia in Pillar 1 that7496they are investing in our industrial defense base. We want to7497provide them capabilities. We want to make sure those7498capabilities are part of how they use them, with submarines,7499but also how they integrate with us as allies.7500    In Pillar 2, we don't want to rely just on the architecture7501of the previous administration. We are looking at sort of the7502opportunity for a signature program or programs we can work on7503together that benefit all three that create processes or7504procurement opportunities of systems we need for future fights.7505And we have had--in fact, as recently as last week, I spoke7506with Secretary Healey about that.7507    And we are looking for those one or two signature programs.7508We have a menu of options. We are at the point where we will7509get to right-sizing it and determining it.7510    Mr. Aderholt. And you feel, at this point, that things are7511on track and you are----7512    Secretary Hegseth. That is what we are monitoring,7513especially in Pillar 1, sir, to make sure that expectations are7514properly set so that we are not, you know, missing deadlines or7515expectations are shifted in the wrong direction.7516    So we are having honest conversations with our allies like7517we should, with a recognition that by investing in each other7518and that defense industrial base we can have a multiplying7519effect.7520    Mr. Aderholt. Thank you.7521    I yield back.7522    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentleman.7523    Ms. McCollum, any closing statement?75247525                       PROVIDE BUDGET INFORMATION75267527    Ms. McCollum. Just--yes. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.7528    So, to Mr. Aguilar's question--and, Ms. MacDonnell, you7529were helping to fill in the blanks--the money is coming from7530FSRM--and that is about a 25-percent cut to that budget--to7531fill on what is happening on the border and now what is7532happening in Los Angeles.7533    So if you could get us the details of what is not going to7534happen in that account because of that, that would be fabulous.7535We might want to look and see if we prioritize things in next7536year's budget to make sure that they are covered.7537    Mr. Secretary, the top line on the budget before us is $8307538billion. It is not $901 billion. It is just not. That is the7539number we have to work with.7540    You can talk about an increase. You have a lot of things7541baked in. Hopefully, that goes in reconciliation. Six billion7542dollars for revitalizing shipyards; 3.5 for F-47s; 25 for7543Golden Dome. But that is all in reconciliation, and we can't7544include that in any of our planning. And that is why we are so7545concerned about getting the money breakouts in front of this7546committee.7547    And I will give you an example. The Navy, their J-Books7548where they break everything down--I know you are really7549familiar with them--we had 30 of them in front of us when we7550were getting ready to do our appropriation last time. We have7551zero in front of us this time.7552    So, you know, Mr. Secretary, I know--I believe, honestly7553believe, you want to provide the information, but time is of7554the essence, because this committee wants to do its best work,7555together, both Democrats and Republicans, to make sure the7556women who serve in our Armed Forces have the equipment that7557they need to do the missions that they are assigned to and come7558home safely, because we honor their service and their7559commitment.7560    Get us the information.7561    Thank you, Mr. Secretary.7562    Mr. Calvert. I thank the gentlelady.7563    And I would just make--so where we are going to agree, that7564we need some more detailed information.7565    We are going to go ahead and--we are going to go upstairs7566here and do the subcommittee mark, but then later this week we7567are going to do the full committee mark on this bill.7568    The Senate is pushing off doing their appropriation bills7569in general until after reconciliation passes, because they want7570to incorporate that. But we don't have the luxury of time. We7571will just have to work out the differences we have in7572conference.7573    But it is hard for us to do our job without the J-Books,7574without the detailed information. And I know you know that.7575    And so you might talk to your friends at OMB and--if OMB7576has any friends; I don't know if they do--and see if they can7577get this going for us, because that would be very helpful.7578    With that, Mr. Secretary, thank you; Chairman, thank you;7579and, Ms. MacDonnell, thank you. We appreciate all of you being7580here today.7581    We are adjourned.7582    [Whereupon, at 11:49 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]75837584    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]75857586                           W I T N E S S E S75877588                              ----------7589                                                                   Page75907591Phelan, Hon. John................................................     97592    Prepared statement...........................................    117593Kilby, Admiral James W...........................................    437594    Prepared statement...........................................    457595Smith, General Eric M............................................    697596    Prepared statement...........................................    707597Nordhaus, General Steven S.......................................   1637598    Prepared statement...........................................   1667599Harter, Lieutenant General Robert D..............................   1797600    Prepared statement...........................................   1817601Lacore, Vice Admiral Nancy S.....................................   1887602    Prepared statement...........................................   1907603Anderson IV, Lieutenant General Leonard F........................   2097604    Prepared statement...........................................   2107605Healy, Lieutenant General John P.................................   2277606    Prepared statement...........................................   2297607Hegseth, Hon. Pete...............................................   2947608    Prepared statement...........................................   2977609Caine, General Dan...............................................   3147610    Prepared statement...........................................   31676117612                                  [all]