VA Office of Information and Technology Organizational Structure and Priorities

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                        VA OFFICE OF INFORMATION5                     AND TECHNOLOGY ORGANIZATIONAL6                        STRUCTURE AND PRIORITIES7=======================================================================89                                HEARING1011                               BEFORE THE1213                        SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY14                               MODERNIZATIOOF THE1516                                   OF THE1718                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS1920                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES2122                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2324                             FIRST SESSION2526                               __________2728                         MONDAY, JULY 14, 20252930                               __________3132                           Serial No. 119-293334                               __________3536       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs3738[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3940                    Available via http://govinfo.gov4142                                __________4344                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE4561-356                     WASHINGTON : 20254647-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------4849                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS5051                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman5253AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking54    American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member55JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California56NANCY MACE, South Carolina           CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire57MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK,58GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina        Florida59DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky60MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas               DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois61JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois62KEITH SELF, Texas                    TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York63JEN KIGGANS, Virginia                MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon64ABE HAMADEH, Arizona                 HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey65KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern       KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota66    Mariana Islands67TOM BARRETT, Michigan6869                       Jon Clark, Staff Director70                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director7172                SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY MODERNIZATION7374                    TOM BARRETT, Michigan, Chairman7576NANCY MACE, South Carolina           NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois, Ranking77MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas                   Member78                                     SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK,79                                         Florida8081Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public82hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also83published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the84official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare85both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process86of converting between various electronic formats may introduce87unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the88current publication process and should diminish as the process is89further refined.9091                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S9293                              ----------9495                         MONDAY, JULY 14, 20259697                                                                   Page9899                           OPENING STATEMENTS100101The Honorable Tom Barrett, Chairman..............................     1102The Honorable Nikki Budzinski, Ranking Member....................     3103104                               WITNESSES105                                Panel I106107Mr. Eddie Pool, Acting Assistant Secretary for Information108  Technology and Chief Information Officer, Office of Information109  and Technology, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs............     5110111        Accompanied by:112113    Mr. Jack Galvin, Acting Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary114        and Deputy Chief Information Officer, Office of115        Information and Technology, U.S. Department of Veterans116        Affairs117118    Dr. Timothy Puetz, Ph.D., Deputy Chief Information Officer119        for IT Budget & Finance and Chief Financial Officer,120        Office of Information and Technology, U.S. Department of121        Veterans Affairs122123    Ms. Devon Beard, Acting Deputy Chief Information Officer for124        People Science and Chief People Officer, Office of125        Information and Technology, U.S. Department of Veterans126        Affairs127128Ms. Carol Harris, Director, Information Technology and129  Cybersecurity Issues, U.S. Government Accountability Office....     7130131                                APPENDIX132                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses133134Mr. Eddie Pool Prepared Statement................................    25135Ms. Carol Harris Prepared Statement..............................    27136137                        VA OFFICE OF INFORMATION138                     AND TECHNOLOGY ORGANIZATIONAL139                        STRUCTURE AND PRIORITIES140141                              ----------142143                         MONDAY, JULY 14, 2025144145  Subcommittee on Technology Modernization,146                    Committee on Veterans' Affairs,147                             U.S. House of Representatives,148                                                    Washington, DC.149    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 3 p.m., in150room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Tom Barrett151(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.152    Present: Representatives Barrett, Budzinski, and Cherfilus-153McCormick.154155           OPENING STATEMENT OF TOM BARRETT, CHAIRMAN156157    Mr. Barrett. Good afternoon, the subcommittee will come to158order.159    I want to thank by or start by thanking our witnesses for160being here today and for the testimony that you are going to161provide and the insight you are going to give to our committee.162I appreciate that.163    I want to kind of set the stage for why we are here today164and why the committee is interested in this topic. Nothing in165the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) functions without166technology.167    I think we all understand that and it is a huge part of168what makes the VA work and in certain instances make the VA not169work as well as it could. It is also the really predominant170focus of course of the jurisdiction of this subcommittee as171well.172    It is a simple statement, but it gets to the heart of what173Office of Information and Technology (OIT)--why OIT's mission174is so important. The VA needs reliable modern technology in175order to provide the quality benefits and services that you our176veterans deserve and have earned through their service.177    Since its creation in 2016, OIT has been constantly178fighting a two-front battle. The first of which is to maintain179and secure the existing technology systems that we have to180shore those up from vulnerability and make sure that they181function properly and in a way that we have expected. The182second is to replace or modernize what is broken and outdated.183    It reminds me a little bit of our physical infrastructure184throughout the country where we have roads and bridges that are185being maintained over time, but also those that reach the point186of needing replacement and having to do both at once is a187difficult and challenging process. You have my respect for the188difficulty and challenges that that presents.189    While it is easy to ask for more money, history has shown190that funding alone does not necessarily result in the outcomes191that we would like and many of OIT's persistent issues raises192important questions in this way. Is OIT getting the best193possible result for their technology investments?194    Is OIT prioritizing cost effectiveness and veteran outcomes195in their decision-making? Does OIT operate a certain way196because it is the best way or is it because it is the only way197we have ever done it. Sometimes we get into a decision matrix198where we have done things a certain way over time and that199becomes the bit of a de facto experience.200    I have run into that here in Congress and, you know, we are201elected to do a certain job and oftentimes are faced with well,202we have always done it this way so that is the way we are going203to continue to do it.204    I was pleased to see that President Trump's VA budget205request for Fiscal Year 2026 laid out a brand of smarter, not206bigger and a strategy for OIT that takes direct aim at many of207OIT's problems.208    According to the strategy, OIT will take advantage of past209investments in automation and digital services to streamline210and become a more cost effective organization. They plan to211change workflows and align similar functions across services to212become more efficient.213    OIT will be making substantial investment in cybersecurity214monitoring and infrastructure readiness to ensure that their215hardware and software can meet the demands after VA's growing216operations.217    I look forward to hearing about these plans and more from218our VA's witnesses today. As technology changes and new219problems, arise OIT needs to be flexible and adaptable in order220to deliver the best outcome for our veterans. OIT's priorities221should determine how the organization is structured, not the222other way around.223    However, we cannot talk about smarter Information224Technology (IT) strategy without talking about the money that225VA has spent on IT projects that have not delivered as were226expected.227    For years this committee has highlighted the wasteful228spending, the over budget projects, poor outcomes that seem to229come with all IT projects in VA, but really throughout230government as I have seen. OIT needs to be involved in the231conversation from the very beginning before VA buys new IT232systems, starts projects or makes major investments.233    As I said before, nothing in VA functions without234technology so there must be real ownership and emphasis from235the VA's central office to involve the experts at OIT in236technology decisions. Doing so might help avoid costly237disasters down the road.238    Earlier this year we held an Oversight hearing on VA's239software licensing management where we dug into the reasons why240VA struggles to track whether the software licenses that are241purchased are actually being used. The VA still does not know242exactly how much money they are wasting on unused or243duplicative software licenses.244    This committee has heard examples of software the VA245purchased, tested and hen put on a shelf and never used after246that. It is taxpayer money that is not being used to fix or247modernize VA's IT systems because it was spent on IT that248nobody will ever use.249    It is also not going to the benefit of a veteran or rapidly250responding to an appeal or developing a claim in a more251thoughtful or meaningful or efficient process.252    Major IT projects that support healthcare systems,253education benefits and financial management are way over budget254and have consistently fallen below expectations. This is just a255few examples and there are many more that we could point to.256    People of Michigan's Seventh congressional District sent me257to Congress to make VA smarter and work better for our Nation's258veterans and I want to do my part to make sure that he follow259on that commitment.260    As the chairman of this subcommittee, my job is to make261sure that the billions of dollars that VA spends on IT is262accounted for and produces real results. The strategy that OIT263is taking seems to focus on being more careful with big264projects, making sure they deliver results and spend money265wisely and are involved in IT decisions from the start. I look266forward to discussing this strategy and more with our witnesses267here today.268    Last, I am looking forward to working with the President269nominee for the VA Chief Information Officer (CIO) Mr. Ryan270Cote after he is confirmed by my Senate colleagues. We urge271them to move quickly and swiftly in that direction. OIT has an272important mission in the work that OIT is doing today, as well273as the work Mr. Cote will do has a direct and meaningful impact274on veterans' lives.275    With that, I want to yield to Ranking Member Budzinski for276her opening statement, and again, thank you all for being here.277278      OPENING STATEMENT OF NIKKI BUDZINSKI, RANKING MEMBER279280    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman for281holding today's hearing. I am glad VA's acting CIO is here to282present to discuss the Office of Information and Technology's283organizational structure and priorities. Everything VA does to284provide veterans with world class healthcare and benefits they285have earned happens on computers. Information technology is286foundational to the Department. I will say that again. I really287truly believe that that is foundational to the services we288provide to our veterans.289    I am extremely concerned that this foundation is at risk.290OIT's Fiscal Year 2025 budget request was already what many291deemed a quote, unquote maintenance budget, mostly due to292Republican's spending caps. This meant that many in the293Department's modernization efforts had to be throttled and VA's294already aging IT infrastructure continues to crumble.295    To make matters worse, the VA administration and Secretary296Collins just informed Congress that they tried to illegally297transfer $182 million from OIT to Veterans Health298Administration (VHA) and Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA)299to compensate for even more community care expansion and300mandatory overtime for claims examiners.301    As if that was not bad enough, the Fiscal Year 2026 budget302request cuts OIT's budget by half a billion dollars. In each of303our hearings over the past 6 months, I have repeatedly304highlighted the importance of OIT and the critical employees in305this office. The budget and the planned reorganization of OIT306makes it clear that Secretary Collins and the Trump307administration do not share those same feelings. I expect to308hear from my colleagues that they think Congress has long since309over budgeted and over resourced this office, without fixing310any issues.311    I also expect to hear about how the Democrats are simply312fine with quote, unquote the status quo. I could not disagree313with that more. While there are many struggles in VA's314technology modernization efforts, they are not going to be315fixed by syphoning money and resources out of the office to316fund VBA overtime pay or community care. This year's budget317request indicates one thing and it is not a decrease of318bureaucracy. For years we have seen a continuous dismantlement319of capacity by expanding its portfolio of what it must take on320without making equitable investments in resources and staff.321More work with less resources is never a recipe for success.322    Further, I have strong issues with the written testimony VA323submitted for this hearing. It is almost as if VA is bragging324about the loss of trusted, hardworking and knowledgeable325Federal employees, many of whom are veterans themselves to the326voluntary retirement program or VERA. Of those who have327participated in the Deferred Resignation Program (DRP) and VERA328programs, VA notes 78 percent of the these were retirement329eligible, which reads to me that VA lost a significant amount330of institutional knowledge and technical expertise.331    That is extremely troublesome, especially as the remaining332VA's are poised to take on more and more work to compensate for333contract cuts, staffing cuts and accelerated deployments.334    The fatigue that is likely to cause creates major risk for335system stability and cybersecurity. I am also concerned about336the office's reliance on quote, unquote natural attrition to337reach whatever staffing goals that they have set for themselves338or have been set for them. With national attrition you can339control the size of the team, but it is much harder to control340the composition. VA has already lost critical technology341expertise and if the Department does not get this under342control, it is going to lose even more.343    Ultimately, I am concerned that if VA's IT foundation is344allowed to continue crumbling, the Department will not be there345for generations of veterans. We cannot allow this to happen.346    I look forward to hearing from both the VA and U.S.347Government Accountability Office (GAO) witnesses today on this348reorganization and the potential intended and unintended349impacts. I will close by saying that I hope VA gets a Senate350confirmed CIO soon.351    I hope that whoever the administration chooses, they are352competent and qualified to lead one of largest information and353technology programs in the country, if not the world. VA354employees and veterans deserve nothing less.355    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.356    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Ranking Member Budzinski.357    I am now going to introduce our witnesses from VA's Office358of Information Technology, Mr. Eddie Pool, acting assistant359secretary for information technology and chief information360officer. A very long title, sir. Thank you for being here.361    Accompanying Mr. Pool is Mr. Jack Galvin, the acting362principal deputy assistant secretary and deputy chief363information officer. Also lot to fit on a business card.364    Mr. Tim Puetz, deputy information officer for IT budget and365finance and Chief Financial Officer.366    Ms. Devon Beard, acting deputy chief information officer367for people science and chief people officer. I think we used to368call that Human Resources (HR). Is that correct? Okay, thank369you.370    Finally, we have Ms. Carol Harris, the director of371information technology and cybersecurity at the and Government372Accountability Office. I was telling my staff, Carol, that I373think we are just going to have to get you an office in the374Cannon building at this point since you are here as frequently375as you are and we appreciate your willingness to come376participate and give us your insight.377    Thank you all.378    I ask the witnesses to please stand and raise your right-379hand.380    [Witnesses sworn.]381    Mr. Barrett. Thank you and let the reflect that all382witnesses have answered in the affirmative.383    Mr. Pool, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver384your opening statement on behalf of VA.385386                    STATEMENT OF EDDIE POOL387388    Mr. Pool. Thank you, Chairman. Chairman Barrett, Ranking389Member Budzinski, and distinguished members of the390subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify on391behalf of the Department of Veterans Affairs, Office of392Information and Technology. I am Eddie Pool performing the393delegatable duties of the assistant secretary for OIT and VA's394chief information officer.395    I am honored to appear before you to provide an update on396the status of OI and T and the critical work we are doing to397deliver secure, modern and veteran-centered IT solutions. I am398accompanied by my OI and T colleagues, Dr. Timothy Puetz chief399financial officer and deputy CIO for IT, budget and finance.400Mr. Jack Galvin, deputy CIO for end user services and acting401principal deputy assistant secretary for OI and T. Ms. Devon402Beard, acting deputy CIO and chief people officer for the403office of people science.404    Today I will focus on three strategic imperatives, budget405optimization, workforce reshaping and cybersecurity dominance.406    First the budget, we are executing a bold, mission-first407approach so every dollar delivers maximum value to our Nation's408veterans. Over the past few months we have conducted an409exhaustive review of our budgets, resulting in the immediate410reinvestment of $89 million into infrastructure readiness411programs with an additional 100 million poised for strategic412reinvestment.413    We have intensified contract oversight and enforced414accountability with acquisition partners without degrading415service delivery. In many instances we have enhanced delivery416of those services. We are consolidating VA's digital experience417into a single modern platform with the goal of securely and418seamlessly delivering the benefits and services to our Nation's419veterans.420    This platform now supports over 16 million monthly unique421users, along with over 3 million veterans who have downloaded422the VA mobile app. Our overarching goal is to bring VA to the423veteran through this platform.424    Additionally, we are launching an initiative to consolidate425VA context and it is to deliver an improved experience for426veterans, whether it be just by phone, chat, text or other427methods.428    To further optimize, we are requesting changes to429appropriation language to eliminate rigid statutory subaccounts430and authorize a 3-year availability for IT funds. This will431empower VA to plan and execute with greater agility, a line of432investments with outcomes, minimize procurement risk and433operational delays.434    Second, the workforce. We are reshaping OI and T's435workforce to achieve veteran-facing outcomes with speed and436precision. Through participation in U.S. Office Personnel437Management (OPM) and the VA deferred retirement programs and438voluntary early retirement authorities, 78 percent of voluntary439departures resulted in retirements.440    In our reshaping efforts we are simplifying our441organizational structure and reallocating and aligning442positions to critical IT functions. This reorganization443reallocation of positions is designed to cut bureaucratic444overhead, accelerate decision-making and focus every OI and T445position on delivering secure, reliable and modern IT solutions446to improve veterans' lives.447    Finally, cybersecurity. Cybersecurity threats are not448static and neither is our posture. We are pivoting from449compliance based checked boxes to dynamic threat informed450defenses with proactive risk mitigation to stay ahead of451evolving threats. This shift demands that Federal Information452Security Modernization Act (FISMA) and Federal Information453Systems Control Audit Manual (FISCAM) audits accurately reflect454the complexity and operational reality of VA's massive digital455infrastructure.456    We are implementing Zero Trust architecture (ZTA),457enterprise wide, instilling a security-first mindset that458includes rigorous identity verification, continuous monitoring459and strict access controls. Our success requires continued460reinvestment in modern cybersecurity tools, skilled personnel461and rigorous standardized processes. The sensitive information462we steward demands nothing less than unwavering vigilance and463world class cyber defenses.464    In conclusion, the changes we are implementing are focused465on a single mission, delivering unparalleled, life-changing466outcomes to America's veterans. We are not simply modernizing467IT systems, we are building a future-ready VA, where platforms468are secure, teams are agile and every taxpayer dollar generates469maximum impact for the veterans we serve.470    With that, I welcome your questions.471472    [The Prepared Statement Of Eddie Pool Appears In The473Appendix]474475    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Mr. Pool. Your written statement476will be entered into the hearing record.477    I assume the rest of your panel from VA is accounted for in478your remarks as well. Thank you.479    I will now go to Ms. Harris, you are recognized for 5480minutes to deliver your opening statement on behalf of GAO.481482                   STATEMENT OF CAROL HARRIS483484    Ms. Harris. Thank you, Chairman Barrett and Ranking Member485Budzinski. I appreciate the opportunity to talk about VA as you486examine the Department's planned efforts to reform within its487Office of Information Technology. VA operates and maintains an488IT infrastructure that is intended to provide the backbone489necessary to meet the day-to-day operational needs of its490medical centers, veteran-facing systems, benefits delivery491system, memorial services and all other systems supporting the492Department's mission. It is also responsible for protecting493veteran data against cybersecurity threats.494    We have reported on VA's challenges with managing a myriad495of major IT acquisitions and operations such as software496licensing and cloud procurement over the years. VA's track497record of delivering failed or troubled IT systems is in large498part why we designated VA healthcare as a high risk area for499the Federal Government in 2015. We also added VA acquisition500management to our high-risk list in 2019 due challenges with501managing its acquisition workforce and inadequate strategies502and policies among other things. Both areas remain high risk503today.504    As requested, I will highlight some key reform efforts of505VA's IT Fiscal Year 2026 IT budget request and then our work on506leading practices and selected questions for assessing agency507reform.508    The VA has requested $7.3 billion to fund its IT systems in509Fiscal Year 2026, an $300 million overall decrease from the510prior year. It has also requested funding to support roughly5117,000 full-time equivalent (FTE) employees, which is an overall512decrease of about 11.7 percent from the 2025 enacted levels.513    Additionally, the budget request proposed amounts also514reflects reduced spending on duplicative legacy systems and515pauses a procurement of new systems until VA can conduct a full516review of them resulting in about a $500 million reduction.517    Further, the VA's request states that a reduction of 931518full-time equivalents is consistent with maturing technology519delivery models and a shift toward automation and digital520services.521    We have found that effective reform efforts require a522combination of people, processes, technologies and other523critical success factors to achieve results. Our prior work524describes 12 leading practices that Federal agencies can use in525agency reform efforts, including efforts to streamline and526improve the efficiency and effectiveness of operations.527    These 12 practices fall into four broad categories such as528the process for developing reforms and strategically managing529the Federal workforce. Our prior work also identifies key530questions that can be used to assess the development and531implementation of agency reforms. For example, what data and532evidence has the agency used to develop and justify its533proposed reforms? How has the agency ensured their continued534delivery of services during reform implementation.535    To what extent has the agency conducted strategic workforce536planning to determine whether it will have the needed resources537and capacity, including the skills and competencies in place538for the proposed reforms. Consideration of these leading539practice and relevant questions can benefit VA's development540and implementation of its reform efforts.541    My hope is that VA will be able to satisfactorily answer542these key questions for you today. If not, be able to pivot, to543do the work necessary and adjust plans accordingly, to be able544to give you satisfactory responses in the near future. Because545if these leading practices and relevant questions are546effectively implemented, such efforts can result in success in547overcoming VA's long history of ineffectively managing IT548resources.549    On a final note, we have 26 open recommendations that550relate to the VA's IT operations and cybersecurity posture.551They are foundational in nature so I strongly urge the552Department to get those fully addressed quickly. Doing so will553put them in a stronger position to succeed in many of their554plans for form initiative.555    That concludes my statement and I look forward to556addressing your questions.557558    [The Prepared Statement Of Carol Harris Appears In The559Appendix]560561    Mr. Barrett. Thank you for your testimony, Ms. Harris. The562written statement you provided will be entered into the hearing563record.564    From here we will proceed with questioning. I will565recognize myself for 5 minutes. Thank you all for participating566in today's hearing.567    Mr. Pool I wanted to begin with your statements and have568some questions for you. The Fiscal Year 2026 budget document569that OIT has laid out a smarter, not bigger IT strategy. Can570you give me some examples of how OIT is not being as smart as571they could be currently.572    Mr. Pool. Thank you, Mr. Chairman for the question. To your573comments that you made in your opening remarks, I believe it574was the stuff that is never used. That is stuff we are no575longer doing. Our budget for 2026 and beyond will be spent on576things that again drive maximum value to the veteran community.577Things that do not have a use or do not provide value or578maximum value, those will be repurposed and reinvested where579again we are getting the biggest bang for our buck for the580veterans of this country, as they deserve.581    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. I appreciate that.582    From there, can you tell me how you are reorganizing your583workforce to deliver services more efficiently, through the584process improvement that you kind of touched on in your opening585remarks.586    Mr. Pool. Sure, thank you, Mr. Chairman, again. OI and T's587reorganization we are focusing again not just our investment588capital, but our human capital as well, making sure that our589organization is aligned to effectively deliver the most590significant outcomes that we can for the Department. Where we591have things that again are not driving significant value, we592are looking, analyzing and realigning those functions to again593bring that--bring those outcomes that we are after.594    Essentially, we are simply making sure that every decision595that we make, every dollar we spend, every realignment,596repurpose--everything that we do, again our north star is that597we are driving absolute maximum value for the Department and in598turn the greatest impact we can make on the veteran community.599    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Would you agree with me that600essentially IT and this technological improvement is done to601alleviate the need for more manual, human-driven processes that602we can rely more on automated features or more technology-603driven process improvement, thereby requiring us to have fewer604manual processes in there. As a result, fewer people involved605in that chain of activity going on.606    Mr. Pool. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, absolutely. It is607about automating what we can automate. Working smarter, not608harder, absolutely.609    Mr. Barrett. Yes, I do not think we--it is not the position610of me or certainly of others I assume on this committee to611completely automate anything to the point that we do not have612human interaction in the process to bring about the best613outcome necessary. I think since the dawn of technology we have614used it to do things to alleviate the necessitation of manual,615you know, processes in labor along the way.616    The discussion around reduction in some of the IT staff617around 12 percent I think Ms. Harris pointed out a little bit618more at 11. something, close to 12 percent. Can you give us619some insight into what that would involve and who exactly would620be impacted by that?621    Mr. Pool. I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the question. Yes,622in terms of the overall staffing numbers today, we are at623approximately 8,205 FTEs. As part of our organizational624reshaping, a lot of those billets are being looked at and625analyzed. Like I said, the goal is not to reduce necessarily626the numbers, but it is to make sure that we are optimizing how627we allocate those resources.628    I will turn it over to Ms. Devon Beard who can speak a629little bit more about the breakdown of the numbers for you.630Thank you.631    Ms. Beard. Yes, we are currently about a decrease of 100632employees from the start of January. We did participate in the633OPM, VA and VERA program within the VA. Those were sprinkled634across our organization but we were able to sustain those635without any impact to our veterans due to succession planning,636cross training, upscaling, reassignments. The tools that are in637our toolkit to make sure that we every day have the resources638that we need to meet our veterans.639    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Can you briefly I have only go640about 15 seconds left can you condition firm that no position641with actual IT application, like interfacing, coding, things of642that sort are being eliminated throughout any of this process.643    Ms. Beard. Once again, we are going through the workforce644reshaping activities. Those are all being focused on are they645delivering the largest value. As long as they align with our646guiding light, then absolutely we are retaining those so we can647meet our mission.648    Mr. Barrett. Okay. I was told in some briefing ahead of649this that it was mostly in support, not to wreck IT interfacing650positions, but more in the supportive roles of that. Can you651confirm that?652    Ms. Beard. Yes, I can confirm a lot of back office or653administrative type support functions are absolutely being654evaluated. As you mentioned in your opening do the processes655that we have today need to remain in the way that they are? Are656there redundancies that have built up over time that we need to657reevaluate and make sure that we can accomplish what is still658needed but do it in a most effective manner.659    Mr. Barrett. Thank you.660    Ranking Member Budzinski, for 5 minutes.661    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Chairman. I will actually try to662pick up where you left off here. My question was going to be663for Mr. Pool, but I will open it up to Ms. Beard as well if you664have answers to this.665    Were you just saying that there were 100 people that have666taken either the DRP or the VERA, they have accepted--you have667accepted their resignations, 100 people within OIT? Is that668what you had said.669    Mr. Pool. Let me hand it over to Ms. Beard, ranking member.670It is actually not 100, it is actually somewhat north of that.671Ms. Beard.672    Ms. Budzinski. Okay.673    Ms. Beard. Our total participation in the program is 1,172674as of today.675    Ms. Budzinski. Okay, that took advantage of one of those676too. Okay.677    Ms. Beard. Yes.678    Ms. Budzinski. Then when you were talking about it and I679appreciate what were you saying that these are folks that were680providing support. I guess my concern is that support does that681support the overall mission of OIT so at what level or what682point does that type of a level of vacancies then erode the683overall mission of OIT----684    I guess I will direct this to you, Mr. Pool--if you could685kind of further elaborate on when you were accepting these686early retirements or resignations, how did you kind of consider687that when they came to you? Does it in any way erode what you688are trying to accomplish within OIT.689    Mr. Pool. Yes, thank you, Ranking Member Budzinski.690    Yes, to answer your question this is largely an opportunity691where we have looked at where duplicated functions exist but692then IT and where these administrative functions are being693performed elsewhere.694    I will use HR as an example where in OI and T we built our695own HR function within the IT department. This is a shared696service that we can get from the Department level HR area so697that in itself is a pretty significant opportunity where we are698able to basically reinvest back into the mission focused699functions of IT. To be as, again, as mission facing, mission700purposed as we possibly can.701    Ms. Budzinski. I guess would it be possible to provide to702this subcommittee kind of a list of you know who participated703in this reorganization and where these resignations or early704retirements have come, just so we can kind of better705understand.706    I appreciate the example you gave with HR but obviously if707it is well north of 1,000 people, just concerned about where708all those are coming from.709    Mr. Pool. Yes, Congresswoman. We can absolutely do that.710    Ms. Budzinski. Okay, thank you.711    Could I just ask, Ms. Harris, could you kind of elaborate a712little bit on, you know, what you have been able to observe as713far as OIT's workforce planning and how they looked at this? I714know they have done a significant amount of restructuring.715    Ms. Harris. Yes so back in January 2025 we actually issued716a report evaluating VA's cyber workforce in particular. I think717those trends can probably be applied across OIT. What we found718was OIT's strategic workforce plan was incomplete. They do not719have an inventory of their current workforce skills and720competencies so in terms of if, you know, with the721restructuring not even having a baseline of what it is that722they have, it is going to be difficult to tell, okay, from723there what is it that you are going to project to and what you724are going to need in the future.725    They also did not comprehensively identify their current726and future human capital needs and skills and competencies.727Those are essential things that you are going to need with any728reform effort. Whatever your goals are and objectives are for a729reform effort, you are going to need to make sure that the730workforce matches that need.731    Being able to have those processes in place and have a732complete picture of what you currently have and what you need733to have in the future to match your reform effort, that is734essential. Right now VA does not have that capability. We have735open recommendations related to that.736    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Could I just, Mr. Pool, ask you to737kind of respond to that? I would be curious kind of how you738might have looked through your processes in these different739early retirements, what processes were in place?740    Talk a little bit more about that and kind of trying to741meet it metric I think the GAO is pointing out being important742to the overall--again, the mission of OIT.743    Mr. Pool. Yes, thank you for the question again,744Congresswoman.745    We looked at every single one of the individuals that took746advantage of these opportunities and assessed that from a747leadership perspective to ensure that this would not create any748operational gaps or introduce unnecessary risk to the749Department. Going through that process we made certain that in750order to honor the request, the voluntary requests that were751being submitted and again we had mitigation strategies in place752to ensure continuity of operations.753    As I mentioned previously, it gave us the opportunity to754actually bring efficiencies in some areas and optimize some of755those processes and workflows to really again provide a better756outcome for the Department. It was very, very rationalized and757very, very closely analyzed as we went about that process.758    Ms. Budzinski. I think I am out of time, but I will yield759back for now.760    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick for 5761minutes.762    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you, Chair Barrett and thank763you Ranking Member Budzinski for convening today's hearing.764    As a former healthcare executive and former ranking member765of this subcommittee, I understand that information technology766is vital in delivering world class healthcare in fulfilling our767sacred promise to our veterans. I also know that significant768organizational change can be disruptive, but often necessary.769    The way Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) and Mr.770Vogt have approached these changes at OIT seemed intentionally771cruel. I have heard you trying to right this ship and recognize772the valuable contributions of the employees while implementing773the change. Mr. Pool, what other steps are you taking to repair774employee morale?775    Mr. Pool. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman. It is776a good opportunity to talk about the bigger picture at VA.777Obviously change is very challenging. In this particular778instance change is very necessary. It is an opportunity under779this administration to really improve the things that VA on a780scale have really not seen before.781    As we go about that, we are doing very frequent782communications. We have a lot of activities underway. We have783surveying and taking a pulse of the organization. Again, just784to check in a make sure, you know, the workforce is getting the785information that they need.786    Particularly through the DRP programs we made certain that787we had lots of frequent communications, lots of options, lots788of questions and answers with the workforce so that the789employees could make the best decision for themselves and their790families, given the opportunity that has presented.791    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. What are you doing to bolster792retention efforts?793    Mr. Pool. To bolster retention efforts we are again making794our mission focus back on the veteran. We are focusing795exclusively on trying to optimize everything that we do to796drive maximum value.797    I think that in itself has been a uniter with the staff and798a good focus on the organization to really again focus on our799core mission, what can we do to improve services to veterans800across the board through technology.801    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Do you have any mechanisms in802place that can actually truly track feedback to make sure that803you are getting the desired effect?804    Mr. Pool. Yes, Congresswoman, we absolutely actually do. In805fact, I will yield to Ms. Beard who will talk a little bit more806about those mechanisms.807    Ms. Beard. Yes, thank you for the questions. During a time808of change it is so important to have strong communications with809the staff that make sure that we are providing back the810visibility and understanding and why we are doing what we are811doing. Since January especially we have been doing a lot of812town halls and other communications.813    We have an over 80 percent satisfaction rate with over 78814percent attendance, so good saturation along with strong815satisfaction. On the development side, we also have released a816career developmental portal for all categories along the817National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)818cybersecurity codes for employees that focuses on not only819assessing their current skills and upscaling into the areas820they want to do.821    Our focus around retention is not only to take care of them822now, but also take care of what the VA's going to need and what823they need to continue their growth here with OI and T.824    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you. My next question has to825do the Chief Information Security Officer (CISO), because there826has been significant changes within the organization. How much827involvement has the CISO had?828    Mr. Pool. Thank you, Congresswoman. She has been involved829as has her executive team. I believe that organization has four830executives in the Department. What we have done is primarily831focused on the operational aspects and then again with the CISO832herself, that is going to be more focused on the policy side of833things.834    Operationally, we are looking at those immediate concerns,835but as we evolve and grow throughout this reshaping effort,836this will be probably much more involvement on the policy side.837    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. How much control and execution838control does she have?839    Mr. Pool. Congressman, I am not sure I understand the840question.841    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Well, how much control,842operational control over the execution does the CISO have,843since that person is going to be held accountable. How much844control will they have?845    Mr. Pool. Congresswoman, I would say quite a bit of846control, I mean this is an environment where we welcome847feedback from all areas of the organization. Where that is848available to collect and inform our strategy we certainly849maximize the opportunity to collect that so----850    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Why is the CISO not here today?851    Mr. Pool. Congresswoman, I cannot really speak to that. I852know that operationally most of the components for our853reshaping are being aligned more toward the technical854operations side of the organization like moving security855functions where the next to the operations they support and.856Most of that is under Mr. Jack Galvin to my left.857    I thought given the organizational direction we were going858I thought given the organizational direction we go in it would859probably be better to have Mr. Galvin here to speak to some of860those issues.861    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. I only have a second left, I just862want to say that I do have some deep concerns that we will be863holding this person accountable and they are not here to864actually talk about the level of control they and what they865have been--how they have been participating.866    Thank you. I yield back.867    Mr. Barrett. Thank you.868    I recognize myself for 5 minutes again. Mr. Galvin, I want869to make sure we get your parking validated for your870participation today so I have got to ask you a question. OIT871has gone through reorganizations in the past, can you tell me872what is different about this current reorganization and what873lessons learned we have had that we can apply to this process874that we are in now.875    Mr. Galvin. Sure, thanks for that question, chair. You876know, I think the big game changer for this one is the singular877focus that the administration has put on standardization and878priority on veteran outcomes. You know, when you had your879hearing on the software asset management for instance, you880know. We are having conversations now that it is on the how not881the why.882    We are all in sync with what our priorities are. Saving883duplication, enabling functions for software for instance that884do not duplicate but solve the requirement at hand. I think885that is the big game changer I think or change in this886organizational change and, you know, in the past. Been through887many of them, each one is built upon each other, you know.888    I would like to say that principles have staying powers,889there are priorities that change, but principles of operation,890especially in IT, have staying power. We still have the891principle of cybersecurity, the protection of veteran data,892the--you know, performance, service performance, ensuring we893are accountable for system reliability and accountability. I894think to speak to some of the other conversation is there is an895excitement building now to deliver, you know, real outcomes,896you know, Electronic Health Record Modernization (EHRM)897acceleration.898    I mean, we are champing at the bit to show that, you know,899in your area in Michigan we are ready to go. Our four sites in900Michigan are already prepared in terms of their heavy lift IT901infrastructure. We have a complete dashboard that shows every902site in across the VA in terms of their readiness status.903    In fact, all 13 sites in the next year in Fiscal Year 2026904are ready in those four key areas of devices, network905infrastructure, wireless, all of that is done already. In fact,906next year we will be working on Fiscal Year 2027, thanks to Dr.907Puetz here in keeping a steady flow of the infrastructure908readiness program and the funding that we have for technical909debt.910    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, I appreciate that. I understood911some of what you said so that was helpful.912    The--to me if feels like in the past some of what we were913doing with technology was like layering on, stacking up instead914of replacing the systems with one another, we were kind of915adding to and layering up and up and up and next thing you know916we have got so many systems, it is not as many unique users917using each one of them, but nobody wants to give up the legacy918model of whatever they had that they were used to using instead919of kind of learning along the way and upgrading into what they920were, you know, more familiar with.921    I remember when, what was it, one of the legacy windows922versions finally stopped being supported and people were923struggling to, you know, move up to whatever the next of newer924generation of that was.925    Sometimes that is necessary and I feel like with technology926we cannot move at the pace of the slowest participant. We have927to move at the pace that is necessary to move the organization928along. I think that having that in mind is important.929    I have heard the Secretary speak a number of times at some930of his observations and how when he walked in the door on his931first day he could not even know how many people were in the932department and where they were all assigned because he had933different payroll systems and different human resources934management systems and all these other things that are not--935again, delivering care and benefits to veterans, they are936simply the--running the system itself.937    They are kind of a drag, if you will, on the efficiency of938the overall system if we have duplicative processes and more939than on system in place doing the same thing or this, you know,940part of the department over here is using this thing, but this941department is using that. They do the same or they have the942same purpose, but they are now duplicative in nature and then943you have got to have IT resources designed to cover both of944those, when instead you could have one that covers the total945systems.946    I think that there is a lot there that can be done better.947I think, I hope that we all recognize that, especially when it948relates to IT.949    Dr. Puetz, can you tell us from your perspective how950important is it from a resource allocation perspective to have951an efficiently organized workforce, specifically around these952IT projects so that people kind of know their mission and they953have the sight focus that they need?954    Dr. Puetz. Thank you for the question, chairman. When we955talk about resources, people and money, it is only as effective956as we put against the actions that drive outcomes.957    It is very important to answer your question that we have958that aligned. Like we talked about in the beginning, it is not959about bigger budgets, it is about smarter budgets.960    That is where that alignment occurs. Do you have the961traceability from the dollars that were requested through the962activities that they were invested in to ultimately what is963produced for the veteran at the end of the day.964    It is about setting controls, working with Inspector965General (IG) to have controlled environment, to make sure that966the plan is impacted as placed by the Department.967    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. I appreciate that. I am out of time968on this round of questions. I will yield to Ranking Member969Budzinski for 5 minutes.970    Ms. Budzinski. I would just like to say, you know, I hear971you when you say this about smarter, not bigger. Part of today972is not--anybody is talking about bigger, we are talking about973bigger cuts, cuts that are actually happening and what that is974going to mean for what the mission is for OIT, that is more975of--that is my concern.976    I do want to go back to this question about staffing and977the lower levels of staffing through the DRP, the VERA and then978natural attrition.979    Mr. Pool, if I could ask you IT staffing looks now lower980than what is budgeted for Fiscal Year 2026. Will OIT now need981to rehire staff after essentially paying employees to leave?982    Mr. Pool. Thank you, Congresswoman, for the question. Yes,983we will likely need to continue to hire folks, just as we will984in perpetuity. It is a cyclical thing you have got people985coming in and going out and different life cycles of the986employment process. Many of the folks that left were again987retirement eligible.988    As I mentioned before, 78 percent of those resulted in989retirements. We will continue to recruit. We will bring in new990folks to the workforce. As we do that, we will be focusing991exclusively on mission.992    Whereas we might have hired across the board previously we993are going to be looking at prioritizing for the most again994value added opportunities and how we are driving the mission995forward for the Department as we----996    Ms. Budzinski. I cannot imagine you could hire new folks. I997mean for those that have left can you imagine having to rehire998any of them because the vacancy itself is too critical, they999left, we have to bring them back. Can you see that happening?1000    Mr. Pool. Congresswoman no, I would not see that happening.1001Again, as we went through this process, we put a lot of rigor1002behind how we approved folks that wanted to take advantage of1003these opportunities and making sure that we did not create any1004operational gaps.1005    It would be highly unlikely that we would be hiring folks1006back. As a contingency, many of them are again available to the1007end of year, but I do not anticipate that being a contingency,1008we would have to exercise it.1009    Ms. Budzinski. I should say, like, some of my concern is1010coming from the fact that over the last 8 years it seems like1011OIT staff--the OIT department has been saying we are way1012understaffed and now we have seen a major attrition of1013employees over just this last 6 months.1014    I guess that is part of where my concern is, but the1015question I would also have is how are you then prioritizing?1016When you are talking about mission and we want everything to be1017mission driven of course, but within that mission you are going1018to have to make probably with less staff some really hard1019decisions on what is prioritized and what it not. Can you walk1020me through what that looks like.1021    Mr. Pool. Yes, certainly. You know, it goes back to the1022opportunity here with standardization. You know, previously in1023the construct that you referred to, OI and T would be in1024position to support maybe five, six, seven, 10 or more similar1025type workflows capabilities or systems across the Department1026for one set of capability.1027    As the departments standardize down to a real enterprise1028process on how we do business that allows OI and T to in the1029come in and really automate an enterprise solution around those1030functions. That in itself will be a tremendous efficiency1031driver for how we staff the organization.1032    Then second, as I mentioned previously as well we have a1033number of administrative functions that we have grown into the1034organization. We have a lot of things that do not--are not pure1035IT focus mission that are consuming resources within the1036Department.1037    We are no different than the rest of the organization. We1038are going to get back to our core mission which is delivering1039IT and where we can get services and functions from other1040places in the Department that are not IT related, we will be1041pursuing that.1042    Ms. Budzinski. Can you give me an example of what that1043would be?1044    Mr. Pool. Sure, I will go back to the exam of HR, you know,1045we in IT over the previous administration decided to build our1046own HR function within the Office of Information Technology.1047That consumes 300 plus resources to do that.1048    At the Department level, we do have an HR department. We1049have several HR options within the organization. Again it does1050not make a lot of sense financially or otherwise to build that1051function in house when we can leverage the Department level1052resources for that.1053    Ms. Budzinski. I appreciate what you are saying about1054standardization because this comes up a lot. When we have been1055talking about the EHRM, moving that forward standardization1056seems to be really important.1057    I would just kind of point out my bigger concern here is1058without enough people power to help the VA actually in OIT1059standardized that could set yourself up for failure if you do1060not have the people to do the standardization because the VA is1061such a unique place and has a lot of challenges as it relates1062to standardization so maybe easier said than done.1063    I will I yield back.1064    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. I will now recognize myself for 51065minutes again.1066    Mr. Pool, I wanted to circle back just for a moment on1067something the ranking member just asked you. You said there1068were 300--under the previous administration there were 3001069people in the HR part of the OIT, is that correct, doing HR1070functions?1071    Mr. Pool. Yes, Mr. Chairman, that was an estimate around1072300. I believe Ms. Beard has the exact number if you want or we1073can take that for the record but roughly 300 resources.1074    Mr. Barrett. 300 out of 8,200, were doing HR functions that1075could have been or would have otherwise been done by the1076department as a whole and absorbed into the workflow of the1077Department into the I am sure robust HR portfolio of managing1078400 and some out thousand people within the Department. Would1079you say that is fairly accurate?1080    Mr. Pool. Absolutely, Mr. Chairman. I mean, again, that1081does put it in great perspective, you know. We have 8,200 folks1082roughly in OI and T, do we need a 300 person plus organization1083to do our own?1084    We are driving the business to standardize on common1085technologies.1086    Mr. Barrett. Right.1087    Mr. Pool. We will do the same.1088    Mr. Barrett. Ms. Beard, do you have anything further on1089that?1090    Ms. Beard. Yes, I do have the number, it is 242. We do have1091some additional upcoming attritions through the programs that1092are impacting that, but to reinforce the focus about how we can1093once again make sure we still get the services we need for OI1094and T to meet our veterans needs, but also make sure that we1095have the capabilities to achieve that through with the HR1096functions.1097    Mr. Barrett. Sure. Is that roughly 300 or 242 or the number1098you gave me, is that included in the roughly 1,100 that you1099talked about in, like, deferred retirements, things, that sort?1100    Mr. Pool. Yes, Mr. Chairman. It is spread across the board.1101Again, we did not exempt any positions as part of that from OI1102and T perspective for the DRP programs or VERA. That 1,1001103consists of multiple different domains in areas within the1104organization.1105    Mr. Barrett. Sure, but hey also those 300 people are not1106minimizing or suggesting they do not have a legitimate, you1107know, work ethic or anything, but if that job can be done on an1108aggregated level, there is not a reduction and benefit for a1109veteran or delayed in a claim or anything of that sort that1110would result from that job being done by a higher level1111department asset.1112    Mr. Pool. Yes, Mr. Chairman, that is correct. Again, it1113is----1114    Mr. Barrett. Those Chinese cyber attacks are affected by1115that? No, you know, no update to the mobile app that I use or1116veterans like me use throughout the management of our claim or1117interfacing with the VA so--okay.1118    Mr. Pool. All right.1119    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Mr. Pool, VA's budget documents1120describe a buy before build strategy. I think that is a good1121insight into some of the motivation for how we make this1122better, you know, we have to design it from the ground up or1123can we take something that is preexisting and kind of, you1124know, modify it for our use within the Department. Can you kind1125of give me some insight into how that works and what the1126motivation behind it was.1127    Mr. Pool. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Again, thank you for the1128question, it is a really good one in terms of how we are1129approaching optimizing the organization. The buy versus build1130is really driven by the need to look at enterprise standard1131tools out there today that can deliver functionality for the1132Department. Previously we have invested in building and1133building and building.1134    We have a very large portfolio of products that are custom,1135they are built and maintained and we are perpetually stuck and1136a lot of those given to the legacy portfolio. When you go out1137and buy capability from industry, you can generally get the1138enterprise platform that you can consolidate a standard1139workflow and process for the Department on and maintain and1140keep that system modernized. Again, it is a much better model.1141    With that comes increased cybersecurity, a lot of other--1142efficiencies in terms of just how we maintain those products.1143    Mr. Barrett. Sure. I appreciate that. I had worked1144previously in our State treasurer's office a number of years1145ago and we were using legacy systems that were built from the1146ground up and we were having a hard time finding servers that1147would actually run them any longer. These things were 30 years1148old at the time.1149    That was just one hardship that we were encountering,1150whereas if you have a processor or you have a product that is1151purchased off the market, it has the robust backbone necessary1152to kind of keep it functional and running just as one example1153and this necessitates less maintenance over time and people1154doing that to be sure.1155    I am almost out of time so I am going to yield to the1156ranking member for 5 minutes for her questions.1157    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1158    Mr. Pool, can you tell me why are millions of dollars being1159transferred out of OIT to plus up other parts of the Department1160when there are nearly 20 unaddressed, unfunded priorities on1161the 1:N list?1162    Mr. Pool. Thank you, Congresswoman. You know, I cannot1163really speak much about what is driving transfers. I can speak1164about what we are investing in OI and T in. I will turn it over1165to Dr. Puetz, maybe he can provide some more insight for you on1166that.1167    Dr. Puetz. There are two specific things that we need to1168address your question, the first is that there is OIT, but we1169are driving the larger department and for the needs for1170veterans across the entire Department. At the end of day we may1171have a 1:N list, but VA also has a 1:N list. Sometimes the1172other administrations and staff offices may have a priority1173over IT and that is a decision that sits with the Secretary.1174    The second aspect of that is you asked about the 1:N list1175that exists within OIT. It is important to remember that when1176we submit that 1:N list it is part of our congressional1177justification, that is a point in time. Since that time when1178that is submitted, we almost immediately start funding into and1179against that list.1180    That list that you have seen, we have been able to start to1181drive down our 1:N list. We look at lists monthly with our end1182of month close and where we able to identify savings, we are1183able to reinvest in real-time. We do not wait for the end of1184the year to come in and then pay our 1:N list, it is happening1185in real-time.1186    Again, with budgets it is point in time. Good organizations1187are not just planning for the future, they are moving in real-1188time to create it.1189    Ms. Budzinski. A follow-up question to that because I did1190take time to look at the 1:N and, like, the top 5 issues one1191was cybersecurity and incident report, the second was data1192privacy and security, the third was governance risk and1193compliance, you go to fifth it is threat and vulnerability1194management. These are all at the very top of the 1:N list.1195Those sound very serious to me. What you are saying is that1196those have been resolved.1197    Dr. Puetz. In the opening testimony from Mr. Pool you have1198seen that when we were here last year about that time he said1199that we are carrying some risk within our cybersecurity and1200Incident Response Plan (IRP) and that we will fund against that1201to really buy down that risk.1202    Ms. Budzinski. That is exactly my question, though.1203    Dr. Puetz. That is exactly----1204    Ms. Budzinski. Excuse me, excuse me. That is my question,1205though, as you have transferred money away. My understanding1206though is that if those millions of dollars, you know, the1207Fiscal Year 2026 budget request, $434.2 million decrease from1208Fiscal Year 2025, that difference alone from what we understand1209would basically solved 70 percent of what is on that 1:N list.1210    Dr. Puetz. Yes, ma'am, that is correct. I can also say that1211we have invested over 100 million in our IRP and I just signed1212off documentation to put a major investment within our ZTA just1213in the last few days. The funding is being redirected to these1214key priorities and we are spending down against that risk.1215    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Mr. Pool, your testimony highlights a1216reinvestment of nearly $200 million from contract1217cancellations. Can you provide the committee a full list of1218contacts canceled within OIT and where this money is being1219reinvested?1220    Mr. Pool. Thank you, Congressman. Yes, we can take that1221back for the record and provide a list as requested.1222    I would like to just add on the last question, just for1223clarity, our 1:N list are a capturing of requirements whether1224they be valid requirements or things that they would like to1225do. These are outside of our base budget normally.1226    These are things that we know are unfunded largely, that we1227will be able to fund as funding becomes available, you know,1228for various reasons. This is how we prioritize those lists.1229    The ones that you mentioned on top, those are largely ones1230that you can normally assume will be funded. It is when you get1231further down the list, just the racking and stacking to make1232sure that we capture those requirements and then we can invest1233in those as we are able to do throughout the fiscal year.1234    Ms. Budzinski. Just to clarify, so you are saying that with1235the 434 million that is being cut from OIT's budget in Fiscal1236Year 2026, you are still going to be able to resolve all of1237that on the 1:N list?1238    Mr. Pool. Congresswoman, like I mentioned previously with1239the standardization approach to how we are approaching things,1240again, the reference to where we may have 20, 30 different1241similar capabilities in the environment today, consolidating1242down to one enterprise platform, you know, again, the1243opportunity from a fiscal perspective is pretty substantial.1244Yes, I do believe with the funding that we have, we will be1245able to meet the majority of our needs.1246    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. I have a question about DOGE. Was DOGE1247or any of its representatives involved in the contracts that1248were canceled?1249    Mr. Pool. We do not have DOGE employees at VA. I do1250understand that there is, being sensitive to ongoing1251litigation, that I am aware, is underway. We will have to refer1252you to our Office of General Counsel for our follow up on that.1253    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. I am over time. Sorry about that.1254    Mr. Barrett. That is okay. We are going to move to closing1255statements. I want to recognize you for your closing statement.1256    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you again to1257the witnesses for being here. I hope that both VA and OIT1258leadership have heard the concerns that I have raised today. I1259am not one for maintaining the status quo, nor throwing money1260at issues needlessly. I am not one for maintaining the status1261quo.1262    Again, I do believe in mission-driven work. I appreciated1263those comments. Improvements to VA's organizational structure,1264processes, and strategies and operational workload can and1265should occur.1266    However, as the ranking member of the Subcommittee on1267Jurisdiction of this jurisdiction, I believe that this change1268must happen methodically and must be driven by data. VA's IT1269foundation will not continue to support the Department's1270mission otherwise.1271    Unfortunately, I have not had heard today anything that1272really reassures me here. VA's answers have not indicated that1273the reorganization staffing or budgetary decisions will reach1274using data or evidence-based strategic thinking.1275    I am concerned that this was rushed to be finalized before1276a new permanent CIO could be confirmed. I would hope that the1277Department would delay implementing such drastic changes until1278a CIO can be appropriately named, vetted, and confirmed.1279    Mr. Pool, I hope that we, and your team, can continue our1280dialog here and ensure that OIT can find the right balance in1281terms of structure and staffing. The work for your employees1282perform undergirds much of the work VA performs, and I want1283that talent to be recognized, appreciated, and cultivated. I1284hope you and whoever is confirmed as the next CIO share that1285same desire. Thank you, and I yield back.1286    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Ranking Member Budzinski, and thank1287you our panelists for being here today. I appreciate your1288insight and testimony to helping us drive, you know, good1289decision-making within this committee. Thank you.1290    OIT, it stands hopefully without saying, but it has an1291important mission and many competing priorities. We even saw1292some of that on display here today. When everything becomes a1293priority, nothing then reaches the top of the list, right? We1294have to do a job of determining within those priorities what1295stands out as our most necessary attention.1296    I am glad to see that under Secretary Collins leadership,1297OIT is reevaluating where they are investing, how they are1298utilizing their workforce, what they can do to be a more1299efficient organization. No organization, not even the Federal1300Government has unlimited resources.1301    During this hearing, we have discussed several important1302steps that OIT is taking as part of its smarter, not bigger1303strategy to become a more effective and efficient organization.1304    Starting fewer large development projects that come with1305the risk of ballooning budgets and poor outcomes, reevaluating1306the current organizational structure in order to make OIT a1307smarter and more resourceful organization, investing in IT1308infrastructure, cybersecurity monitoring, and reducing1309technical debt to make the VA more resilient.1310    Some of things, Mr. Pool, that you pointed out about1311enterprise-wide, large-scale systems that can be delivered more1312efficiently with greater cybersecurity are important to see and1313review.1314    I look forward to working with the OIT witnesses here today1315and once Mr. Cote is confirmed to accomplish these goals and1316more.1317    As the chairman of this subcommittee, I will continue to1318ensure that OIT has the right priorities, the appropriate1319responsibilities, and is organized in a way that best supports1320the VA's mission.1321    I ask unanimous consent that all members have five1322legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include1323extraneous material. Without objection, that's so ordered. This1324hearing is adjourned.1325    [Whereupon, at 4:06 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]13261327=======================================================================13281329                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X13301331=======================================================================13321333                    Prepared Statements of Witnesses13341335                              ----------13361337                    Prepared Statement of Eddie Pool13381339Introduction13401341    Chairman Barrett, Ranking Member Budzinski, and distinguished1342Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify1343on behalf of the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) Office of1344Information and Technology (OIT). I am Eddie Pool, performing the1345delegable duties of the Assistant Secretary for Information and1346Technology and Chief Information Officer (CIO). I am honored to appear1347before you today to provide an update on the status of OIT and the1348critical work we are doing to deliver secure, modern, and Veteran-1349centered information technology (IT) solutions. I am accompanied by my1350OIT colleagues, Dr. Timothy Puetz, Chief Financial Officer and Deputy1351CIO for IT Budget and Finance; Mr. Jack Galvin, Deputy CIO for End User1352Services; and Ms. Devon Beard, Acting Deputy CIO and Chief People1353Officer for the Office of People Science.1354    Let me center my remarks on three core priorities: budget1355modernization, workforce reshaping, and cybersecurity posture.13561357Budget13581359    We are driving a bold and forward-thinking approach to budget1360modernization, one that matches the pace of today's technological1361landscape. Over the past few months, OIT has undertaken a comprehensive1362and rigorous review of our contracts and budget to ensure that every1363dollar spent delivers real value to Veterans and their families. During1364this process, we were able to reinvest $89 million into the1365infrastructure readiness program. Furthermore, we are positioned to1366reinvest an additional $100 million. The Improvement and Remediation1367Program (IRP) serves as the investment fund dedicated to ensuring all1368IT infrastructure such as endpoints, network, and datacenters is both1369``Fit for Purpose'' through modernization efforts, and ``Fit for Use''1370via technology refresh initiatives. In recent years, the Office of1371Information and Technology (OIT) has effectively leveraged the IRP to1372address technical debt stemming from aging systems or solutions that no1373longer meet current requirements.1374    Any contract terminations or modifications occurred after OIT1375assessed internal capabilities and confirmed that critical work could1376continue without disruption. This intentional, mission-first strategy1377has strengthened continuity, reduced complexity, and delivered smarter,1378more reliable IT capabilities. By intensifying our contract oversight1379and forging stronger coordination with our acquisition partners, we are1380decisively managing contract changes without compromising service1381delivery. This proactive approach not only boosts efficiency but also1382enables us to strategically redirect resources to mission-critical1383areas and emerging priorities, ensuring we remain agile and focused on1384delivering positive outcomes for Veterans.1385    OIT is vigorously working to eliminate unnecessary expenses while1386maintaining operational readiness. These initiatives underscore our1387dedication to being responsible stewards of taxpayer dollars while1388effectively fulfilling our mission. Where necessary, we actively1389reassess the use of Government-furnished equipment, cut down on unused1390cellular lines, and enforce stricter eligibility criteria to guarantee1391that resources are allocated solely to essential personnel.1392    We are also requesting changes to the appropriations language to1393allow VA to eliminate rigid statutory subaccounts and authorize a 3-1394year period of availability for IT funds. Granting a 3-year funding1395cycle will allow us to plan and execute across longer horizons, respond1396more effectively to real-time needs, and align investments with1397outcomes. These adjustments promote disciplined, results-driven1398investment while minimizing procurement risk and operational delays.1399Furthermore, we have implemented rigorous internal controls including1400quarterly reporting and CIO risk ratings to ensure accountability1401remains central.14021403Workforce14041405    OIT is committed to deploying staff resources in the most effective1406and efficient way to better serve our Veteran community. OIT is1407actively engaged in workforce reshaping to ensure we assign resources1408to critical positions to meet the Department's mission.1409    We are decisively aligning every staff resource to achieve Veteran-1410facing outcomes. Recently, we participated in the Office of Personnel1411Management and VA Deferred Resignation Program/Voluntary Early1412Retirement Authority. Among those who voluntarily participated, 781413percent opted for retirement, with over 53 percent being Veterans who1414entered early retirement. This grants a unique ability to reallocate1415human capital to meet emerging mission needs, particularly in areas1416like cybersecurity and AI, thereby delivering better outcomes for1417Veterans. We are taking bold steps to reshape our workforce structure1418from nine service lines to three: Technical Operations, Product1419Delivery, and the Office of the Chief of Staff. This strategic1420realignment is designed to eliminate unnecessary bureaucracy,1421accelerate decision-making, and sharpen our focus on delivering1422innovative, impactful IT services that directly support Veterans.1423    To build a robust workforce, OIT is prioritizing and reallocating1424staff to bolster essential functions. We are aligning our onboarding1425efforts with mission delivery to ensure we possess the technical1426capacity required to meet the Department's future needs. Our approach1427effectively balances immediate operational demands with long-term1428workforce planning, ensuring both continuity and readiness in all our1429endeavors.14301431Cybersecurity14321433    Cybersecurity is a complex and constantly evolving threat. We are1434shifting our strategy toward dynamic, threat-informed defenses1435prioritizing proactive risk mitigation over reactive compliance. This1436is not just about meeting checkboxes anymore; it is about anticipating1437threats and acting before they happen. Federal Information Security1438Management Act/Federal Information System Controls Audit Manual audits1439must reflect the complexity of VA's digital infrastructure and the1440sophistication of adversaries we face. Our shift embraces dynamic,1441threat-informed defenses and promotes proactive mitigation over1442retrospective correction.1443    OIT is promoting Zero Trust by fostering a security-first mindset1444across the Department and by prioritizing the protection of critical1445information and resources. Zero Trust is a security model and framework1446that operates on the principle that no user, device, or application1447should be trusted by default, regardless of whether they are inside or1448outside an organization's network. Instead, every access request must1449be continuously authenticated, authorized, and validated before1450granting access to resources.1451    This approach involves rigorous identity verification, continuous1452monitoring, and strict access controls to ensure only authorized users1453interact with sensitive systems, such as those managing electronic1454health records that contain personally identifiable information and1455personal health information. This robust Zero Trust implementation1456delivers a seamless, secure experience for Veterans in an increasingly1457interconnected and threat-contested digital environment, while1458protecting patient safety, ensuring regulatory compliance, and1459maintaining the public's trust in VA.1460    It is essential that the Department continues investing in modern1461cybersecurity tools, skilled personnel, and robust processes. VA's1462systems hold the personal information and health records of millions of1463Veterans, and we must protect these systems with the utmost seriousness1464and commitment they deserve.14651466Conclusion14671468    In conclusion, every change we are implementing, whether it is1469enhancing accountability, transforming the workforce, or advancing1470cybersecurity, is firmly rooted in a singular mission: to deliver1471unparalleled service to our Veterans. We are not merely modernizing1472systems; we are constructing a future-ready VA where platforms are1473secure, teams are empowered, and every dollar generates a significant1474impact.1475    I am eager to address your questions and collaborate with you to1476develop an IT enterprise that truly honors those who have served. Thank1477you.14781479                   Prepared Statement of Carol Harris1480[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]14811482                                [all]