H.R. 6654, the “Veterans Affairs Management and Oversight of Software Assets Act”; H.R. 7280, the “Veteran DATA Act”; H.R. 7319, the “VA Bonus and Relocation Recovery Act”; H.R. 7683, the “VA Fiscal Management Modernization Act”; Discussion Draft, the “Vets CLEAR Act”; Discussion Draft, the “Veterans Affairs Subcontractor Competition and Opportunity Network Act”; Discussion Draft, “to amend title 38, United States Code, to require that certain sterile processing technicians of the Veterans Health Administration hold appropriate professional certifications, and for other purposes”; Discussion Draft, “to amend title 38, United States Code, to modify the rate of pay for care or services provided under the Community Care Program of the Department of Veterans Affairs based on the location at which such care or services were provided, and for other purposes”; Discussion Draft, “to establish an entitlement to a supplemental period of unpaid parental leave for employees of the Department of Veterans Affairs”; Discussion Draft, “To deem certain individuals as parents of Department of Veterans Affairs employees for purposes of determining entitlement to certain family and medical leave for such employees; Discussion Draft, to prohibit the downgrading of law enforcement positions in the Department of Veterans Affairs, and for other purposes; Discussion Draft, “to amend Title 38, United States Code, to establish the Office of Congressional and Legislative Affairs in the Department of Veterans Affairs, and for other purposes

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                          LEGISLATIVE HEARING5=======================================================================67                                HEARING89                               BEFORE THE1011                       SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND12                               INVESTIGATIONS1314                                 OF THE1516                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS1718                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES1920                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2122                             SECOND SESSION2324                               __________2526                       WEDNESDAY, MARCH 25, 20262728                               __________2930                           Serial No. 119-523132                               __________3334       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs3536[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3738                    Available via http://govinfo.gov3940                               __________4142                  U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE4363-815                    WASHINGTON : 202644=======================================================================4546                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS4748                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman4950AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking51    American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member52JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California53NANCY MACE, South Carolina           CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire54MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK,55GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina        Florida56DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky57MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas               DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois58JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois59KEITH SELF, Texas                    TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York60JEN KIGGANS, Virginia                MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon61ABE HAMADEH, Arizona                 HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey62KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern       KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota63    Mariana Islands64TOM BARRETT, Michigan6566                       Jon Clark, Staff Director67                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director6869              SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATIONS7071                   JEN KIGGANS, Virginia, Chairwoman7273AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois, Ranking74    American Samoa                       Member75JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York76KEITH SELF, Texas                    HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey7778Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public79hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also80published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the81official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare82both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process83of converting between various electronic formats may introduce84unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the85current publication process and should diminish as the process is86further refined.8788                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S8990                              ----------9192                       WEDNESDAY, MARCH 25, 20269394                                                                   Page9596                           OPENING STATEMENTS9798The Honorable Jen Kiggans, Chairwoman............................     199The Honorable Delia Ramirez, Ranking Member......................     2100The Honorable Mark Takano, Ranking Member, Full Committee........     5101102                         SPEAKING FROM THE DAIS103104The Honorable Jack Bergman, U.S. House of Representatives, (MI-105  01)............................................................     6106The Honorable Nikki Budzinski, U.S. House of Representatives,107  (IL-13)........................................................     7108The Honorable Nancy Mace, U.S. House of Representatives, (SC-01).     8109The Honorable Timothy Kennedy, U.S. House of Representatives,110  (NY-26)........................................................     9111The Honorable Kimberlyn King-Hinds, U.S. House of112  Representatives, (MP-01).......................................    10113The Honorable Keith Self, U.S. House of Representatives, (TX-03).    10114115                               WITNESSES116                                Panel I117118Dr. Ilse Wiechers, Acting Deputy Assistant Under Secretary for119  Health for Patient Care Services, Veterans Health120  Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs............    11121122        Accompanied by:123124    Mr. Rondy L. Waye, Executive Director, Human Capital125        Programs, Office of the Chief Human Capital Officer,126        Human Resources and Administration, U.S. Department of127        Veterans Affairs128129    Mr. Jeffrey Neil, Associate Executive Director, Technology130        Acquisition Center, The Office of Acquisitions,131        Logistics, and Construction, U.S. Department of Veterans132        Affairs133134                                Panel II135136Mr. Cole Lyle, Director, Legislative Affairs Division, The137  American Legion................................................    21138139Mr. Joseph Avila, Administrator, Sterile Processing Department,140  University of Virginia Health System...........................    23141142Ms. Brittany Madni, Executive Vice President, Economic Policy143  Innovation Center..............................................    24144145Sgt. Dennis Guerrero, Vice President, Local 3511, American146  Federation of Government Employees.............................    26147148                                APPENDIX149                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses150151Dr. Ilse Wiechers Prepared Statement.............................    37152Mr. Cole Lyle Prepared Statement.................................    65153Mr. Joseph Avila Prepared Statement..............................    79154155                          APPENDIX--continued156157Ms. Brittany Madni Prepared Statement............................    86158Sgt. Dennis Guerrero Prepared Statement..........................    96159160                       Statements For The Record161162U.S. Government Accountability Office Prepared Statement.........   101163National Alliance to End Homelessness Prepared Statement.........   119164National Homelessness Law Center, National Health Care for the165  Homeless Council, National Health Law Program, Funders Together166  for Housing Justice, and Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law167  Prepared Statement.............................................   121168National Coalition for Homeless Veterans Prepared Statement......   124169Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America (IAVA) and American170  Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) Prepared Statement................   130171Center for Procurement Advocacy Prepared Statement...............   138172173                          LEGISLATIVE HEARING174175                              ----------176177                       WEDNESDAY, MARCH 25, 2026178179             Subcommittee on Oversight and180                            Investigations,181                    Committee on Veterans' Affairs,182                             U.S. House of Representatives,183                                                    Washington, DC.184    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:20 p.m., in185room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Jen Kiggans186[chairwoman of the subcommittee] presiding.187    Present: Representatives Kiggans, Radewagen, Ciscomani,188Self, Ramirez, Kennedy, and Conaway.189    Also present: Representatives Bergman, Mace, King-Hinds,190Takano, and Budzinski.191192          OPENING STATEMENT OF JEN KIGGANS, CHAIRWOMAN193194    Ms. Kiggans. Good afternoon. This legislative hearing of195the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigation will now come196to order.197    Before we begin, I would like to thank all of the members198and witnesses testifying at today's hearing. I would also like199to welcome the members present from the Subcommittee on200Technology Modernization who will be joining us today to201discuss their bills. With that, I ask unanimous consent that202all non-subcommittee members be waved on to speak on the bills203from the dais. Hearing no objection, we will move forward.204    Today's hearing will examine 12 bills covering a wide range205of issues, all aimed at strengthening accountability, improving206care, and ensuring the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)207delivers on its commitments to those who served. These bills208address critical areas, including oversight of VA operations,209protection of veterans data, workforce retention and210accountability, small business opportunity, payment reform, and211improvements to the quality and safety of healthcare veterans--212the quality and safety of the healthcare veterans receive every213day. While each proposal plays an important role, I want to214focus on a few bills before us today that highlight exactly215what is at stake if the VA fails to meet the standard our216veterans deserve.217    First, my bill, the Veteran Infection Prevention Act, gets218at the heart of patient safety. This legislation responds219directly to a pattern of serious and well-documented failures220within VA's sterile processing protocols, failures that have221led to catastrophic consequences for veteran patients and need222to be fixed. At facilities like the Dublin VA Medical Center223findings show that lapses in oversight and breakdowns in224sterile processing protocols created unacceptable risk to225patient safety.226    These cases and many others demonstrate that this is not an227isolated issue, but a systemic one. They demonstrate the urgent228need for reform and reinvestment in the VA's workforce,229particularly in the roles operating behind the scenes, those230that, if they are not done properly, can have serious231consequences for patient care. My bill is about ensuring that232Sterile Processing Technicians (SPT) are properly trained,233properly supported, and held to the highest standards so that234no veteran is ever again put at risk due to preventable235failures in the system. As a former nurse practitioner, I take236this responsibility seriously.237    I also want to highlight the VA Site Neutral Payment Act238led by my colleague and friend Dr. Miller-Meeks. This bill239addresses a long-standing inefficiency in how veterans' care is240reimbursed, where the same service can cost dramatically241different amounts depending solely on where the veteran goes242for care due to oversight regulations. By moving forward site243neutral payments, we can eliminate unnecessary cost244disparities, promote fairness, and ensure taxpayer dollars are245being used responsibly without compromising the quality the246veterans receive--the quality of care the veterans receive.247    I also want to recognize General Bergman's legislation to248strengthen financial oversight at the VA. Empowering the VA's249Chief Financial Officer (CFO) and improving financial250transparency is essential if we are serious about251accountability and restoring trust in how taxpayer dollars are252managed.253    Finally, I want to acknowledge Representative Self's bill,254the VA Bonus and Relocation Recovery Act. This legislation255closes a loophole that allows former VA employees to avoid256repaying bonuses, awards, or relocation expenses that should257have never been paid in the first place. By extending the VA's258recoupment authority to former employees, this bill helps259ensure taxpayer dollars are protected and accountability does260not end when someone leaves government service.261    I want to thank our witnesses again for being here today262and I look forward to our discussion.263    I now recognize Ranking Member Ramirez for her opening264remarks.265266       OPENING STATEMENT OF DELIA RAMIREZ, RANKING MEMBER267268    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Chair Kiggans. I want to first269start by thanking your staff for their collaboration on the270bills that were prepared for today's legislative hearing. I am271pleased that we have found areas where we can work together and272improve VA functions and its delivery of care and benefits to273veterans.274    I first want to go ahead and start off by also275congratulating American Federation of Government Employees276(AFGE) for its monumental win in court 2 weeks ago that277resulted in the reinstatement of their Collective Bargaining278Agreement (CBA) with the VA. We know we say this often,279especially in Chicago, when we fight, we win. We also know that280the fight is far from over. I want to make sure that I tell you281that I am in the fight with you every step of the way to ensure282that workers have the resources they need to continue to show283up for our veterans.284    The past year demonstrated Secretary Collins' race to the285bottom. He created and celebrated toxic workplaces and286demoralizing conditions. He demeaned and disrespected VA287employees. He attacked bargaining rights and could not even288comment on the murder and criminalization of one of his very289own employees by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)290and U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP). The291administration wants to take bargaining rights away because292they know that those rights offer every employee the ability to293speak truth to power, to voice unpopular opinions, to demand294dignity as in labor, to ensure the resources needed to do the295job well, and to defend workers or veterans when they are being296abused. We know that collective bargaining rights help us297recruit. They help us hire, retain best in class workforce, to298provide our veterans best in class service and care.299    You see, when unions collectively bargain, they contract300terms that will benefit all VA employees, even those that are301not in a union. That is why I am so proud of there are bills on302today's agenda that would strengthen protections and benefits303for VA workers.304    I introduced H.R. 7948, the VA Employee Family Care305Expansion Act, that would enshrine in statute the right for VA306employees to use family and medical leave to care for their in-307laws, their family. Congresswoman Bynum introduced the308Supporting VA Families Act, which would also restore the309guaranteed right to use 4 additional weeks of unpaid leave310after welcoming a new child, whether by birth, by adoption, or311foster care. We know that those 4 extra weeks can be critical312for paternal bonding or handling unexpected health issues that313may arise after welcoming a newborn. Congresswoman Bynum's and314my bill would restore basic worker rights that were stripped315after Secretary Collins illegally terminated collective316bargaining agreements at the VA.317    I want you to see this slide here, this board. This is a318real slide from the VA supervisor training for how to handle319employee issues after the collective bargaining agreements were320terminated. It reads, as you can see here, quote, ``No321additional 4 weeks of leave without pay or substitute paid322leave for maternity/paternity leave in addition to Family323Medical Leave Act (FMLA) family member no longer includes324parents of an employee's spouse, previously a contractual325right,'' end quote.326    That is unacceptable. For the self-proclaimed pro family327party, there is nothing pro family about what Secretary Collins328is doing to VA employees and you can see that right here in329writing from the VA's own training for supervisors. Now, I will330not steal Congressman Kennedy's thunder, he will talk to you331about his bill in just a few moments, but I want to make sure332that we ensure that veterans and others have workforce333opportunities.334    Last, Ranking Member Budzinski's VA Data Accountability for335Third Party Actors (DATA) Act, which would prevent third-party336vendors partnered with VA for monetizing or misusing veterans337data.338    Turning to the majority's bills, I appreciate there are339bills on the agenda that our staffs are working together on to340move forward in a bipartisan manner. I know that the Veterans341Care Protection Act was pulled off the agenda and it was342replaced with H.R. 7950, a bill to codify VA's Office of343Congressional and Legislative Affairs (OCLA).344    I could not agree more than that the OCLA is in desperate345need of reform because, frankly, the lack of transparency and346accountability for the office tasked with communicating with347Congress has been appalling. When I get responses to my letters348or requests for information, which, unfortunately, is pretty349rare, my questions mostly go unanswered.350    I have heard that the average wait time for casework351through the VA congressional Liaison in OCLA is 105 business352days. That is a 5-month waiting period for casework-based353congressional inquiries. I look forward to continued354discussions with the majority on this bill and how we can work355together to compel the VA to provide us the answers we are owed356as we fulfill our oversight responsibilities to the American357people and to veterans.358    I want to make a few comments about the VA's new harmful359guardianship initiative. Chair Kiggans, I appreciate your360staff's willingness to work with mine before any bill is361introduced to give VA any additional authority related to362guardianship of veterans. Two weeks ago, Pam Bondi and363Secretary Collins signed the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU)364that authorizes the appointment of VA attorneys as special365assistant U.S. attorneys who can petition State probate courts366of guardianship of veterans. I have received pages and pages of367whistleblower documents that clearly show VA's true intent368here: to target homeless veterans.369    Bondi and Collins' actions are all about Project Safe370Harbor, an initiative through which VA plans to try to371weaponize the guardianship system to force homeless and at-risk372veterans into treatment. Their actions are intended to appease373Trump. Last year, he issued an executive order calling for his374agencies to force people experiencing homelessness into375institutions against their will. Weaponizing guardianship and376institutionalizing veterans will do nothing to address the root377causes of homelessness in our country and, in fact, would lead378to worse outcomes for the most vulnerable veterans in in our379Nation. I am very concerned about what VA is doing here and how380Secretary Collins is sidestepping Congress to work with Pam381Bondi to undermine the freedom of veterans. I look forward to382performing extensive oversight on this issue with you, Chair.383    Finally, I would be remiss if I did not mention the384continued unsustainable attrition at the VA. I think it is385important I revisit these numbers every time we are in the386subcommittee. In January alone, a net of 195 physicians and 140387registered nurses left the agency. We cannot quit talking about388this. I want to continue doing my part in oversight and hold389the Secretary accountable for the cuts to the workforce and to390veteran care. I look forward to our conversation together here391as we, hopefully, do more bipartisan work to center everything392we do on our veterans.393    With that, Chairwoman, I yield back.394    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you, Ranking Member Ramirez.395    The chair, as a reminder, may also declare recess at any396time. I know we have votes at 3 p.m., so we may need to recess397then.398    I would like to now recognize Ranking Member Takano for any399remarks he might have.400401    OPENING STATEMENT OF MARK TAKANO, RANKING MEMBER, FULL402                           COMMITTEE403404    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Chairwoman Kiggans, for extending405this opportunity and also Ranking Member Ramirez.406    I echo Ranking Member Ramirez' congratulations to AFGE for407their win in court a few weeks ago. Judge DeBose rightly found408that AFGE's claims defending union rights are likely to succeed409on their merits and that Secretary Collins is causing410irreparable harm to VA employees. I look forward to VA411following the law and swiftly reinstating this collective412bargaining requirement--bargaining agreements.413    Now, Chair Kiggans, I commend you and your staff for414pulling the Veterans Care Protection Act from today's agenda415while we wait to get more information from VA about Project416Safe Harbor and VA's Memorandum of Understanding with the417Department of Justice. Now, I have to say I was shocked to see418VA double down on its request for this authority by including419it in its testimony for this hearing, which is why I am here to420comment.421    VA has spent the last few weeks trying to cover up its422plans to force homeless veterans into guardianship to carry out423President Trump's executive order that calls for locking424veterans away instead of getting them the help they need. That425is the crux of what Project Safe Harbor and the Memorandum of426Understanding between Collins and Bondi were designed to do.427This administration continues to prioritize handcuffs and jail428cells instead of getting to the root of what really causes429homelessness in America: a lack of affordable housing and a430lack of supportive services for those who need them.431    At last week's full committee hearing, VA tried to assure432us that they are no longer planning to round up homeless433veterans off the street and institutionalize them. I asked for434written confirmation of this change in strategy, but have yet435to receive it. Even if we accept VA's claim that it is no436longer targeting homeless veterans with this initiative, the437Department still has not shown that guardianship will fix the438underlying problems and how it cares for our most vulnerable439veterans.440    Now, let me connect the dots. Secretary Collins took the441helm--since Secretary Collins took the helm, VA closed over 840442living center beds, community living center beds. VA has lost443more than 40,000 employees, 88 percent of which come from the444Veterans Health Administration (VHA). Job applications are down44545 percent. VA's workforce is shrinking at unsustainable rates446due to Secretary Collins' hostile leadership, which will447inevitably lead to more bed closures and decreased access to448care.449    Housing costs continue to skyrocket across the country.450What will it matter if a veteran is assigned a guardian if451there is no place for the veteran to go to, no beds, no452affordable housing, no community-based facilities? Instead of453stripping veterans' rights away, VA should focus on actually454providing care to the most vulnerable veterans.455    I want to read a quote from the late Congressman Claude456Pepper, former chair of the House Select Committee on Aging. At457a 1987 hearing, titled ``Abuses in Guardianship of the Elderly458and Infirm: A National Disgrace,'' he said, quote, ``The459typical ward has fewer rights than the typical convicted felon.460By appointing a guardian, the court entrusts to someone else461the power to choose where they will live, what medical462treatment they will get, and, in rare cases, when they will463die. It is in one short sentence the most punitive civil464penalty that can be leveled against an American citizen with465the exception of the death penalty,'' end quote.466    Now, that is what precisely is at stake here. Veterans who467fought for our rights will lose theirs to VA, the agency that468is supposed to care for them. Sadly, I do not believe VA has469given the practicality of this initiative much thought. In470reality, using VA attorneys to petition for veteran471guardianship creates a bizarre power dynamic and conflict of472interest in State and county probate courts. VA attorneys will473be directly advocating against the interests of the veterans in474their care.475    Even worse, these veterans for whom guardianship is sought476will likely lack the means or ability to retain their own477defense counsel to go up against the Federal Government. Now,478this is not fair to veterans. It is especially unfair when we479consider what is on the line: a veteran's freedom and autonomy480to make decisions on their own behalf.481    Now, VA asked for feedback on this proposal and I hope they482are listening. I want to thank the following organizations for483educating my staff about all that is at stake with VA's484guardianship initiative and for submitting statements for the485record for today's hearing. They are to include the National486Alliance to End Homelessness, National Homelessness Law Center,487National Health Care for the Homeless Council, National Health488Law Program, Funders Together for Justice, National Coalition489for Homeless Veterans, Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America490(IAVA), the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), Bazelon491Center for Mental Health Law, and the Consortium for492Constituents with Disabilities, which includes 18 additional493organizations.494    Every person, veteran or not, should be concerned with what495the Federal Government is doing here. VA is intentionally496misleading the public and will use Project Safe Harbor and this497MOU with Pam Bondi to strip veterans of their freedom and498independence. If the Trump-Vance administration is willing to499take away the freedom of those who fought for our freedom, they500are willing to take away the autonomy of anyone. This is just501the beginning.502    With that, I yield back.503    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you.504    The chair now will recognize members for 3 minutes each to505speak on the bills they are asking to be considered for506reauthorization.507    The chair now recognizes General Bergman for 3 minutes.508509                   STATEMENT OF JACK BERGMAN510511    Mr. Bergman. Thanks, Madam Chair. Thank you for the512opportunity to waive onto this hearing to discuss my bill, the513VA Fiscal Management Modernization Act.514    As the title suggests, this bill would modernize how the VA515prepares and manages its budget while building on prior516oversight efforts, like my VA Budget Shortfall Accountability517Act, which President Trump signed into law earlier this year.518The Shortfall Accountability Act was prompted by the VA's 2024519shortfall scare when the Department came to Congress claiming520that a $3 billion shortfall and the need for supplemental521funding to avoid disruptions to critical veterans benefits,522only to later carry over more than $5 billion in unspent funds.523That bill was an important first step in bringing transparency524to the budget failures that left Congress, veterans, and the525public asking how the VA's financial planning had gone so526wrong.527    Identifying what went wrong and holding the VA accountable528after the fact is only half the battle. My bill before the529hearing today, the VA Fiscal Management Modernization Act, is530about preventing the next failure before it happens. It would531clarify and strengthen the authority of the VA's top financial532official by requiring the Secretary to designate the Assistant533Secretary for Management as the Department's chief financial534officer and by spelling out that official's responsibilities in535statute. That designation matters because accountability536becomes diluted when responsibility is unclear, fragmented, and537spread to many other offices. This bill addresses that by538creating a clear chain of command for financial management,539establishing dedicated leadership for budget strategy and for540financial operations and internal controls, and requiring541employees with key financial authority to report exclusively542through the CFO.543    The bill also creates a Legislative and Congressional544Budget Information Office whose sole purpose is to provide545Congress with accurate, timely, and certified budget and546financial information. This is significant reform. Congress547cannot conduct real oversight if the information it receives is548delayed, incomplete, or filtered through offices with competing549institutional interests. At the end of the day, this bill is550about accountability, transparency, and making sure the VA has551the structure in place to get its budgeting right the first552time. Our veterans deserve a VA that manages taxpayers' dollars553responsibly, and Congress deserves accurate and timely554information to conduct its oversight.555    With that, I yield back.556    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you.557    The chair now recognizes Ms. Budzinski for 3 minutes.558559                  STATEMENT OF NIKKI BUDZINSKI560561    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity562to waive onto the subcommittee.563    There is an unspoken agreement between the VA and the564veterans it serves during the Department that will protect them565from harm. In my role as ranking member of the Technology566Modernization Subcommittee, I have major concerns about the567privacy and security of veterans' protected health information568and personally identifiable information. The exposure of this569data could have a lasting financial and reputational impacts.570    The more connected we become as a society and the more571interoperable VA systems become, the more we risk exposure.572Just a couple of months ago, a major Electronic Health Record573(EHR) vendor disclosed that fraudulent entities were574addressed--were accessing the records of patients in its system575and selling patients' data to less scrupulous actors. While576that vendor is not currently associated with the VA, it is not577a stretch to imagine that the same thing happening here--could578happen here.579    Additionally, the exposure of Artificial Intelligence (AI)580creates a whole other set of concerns. As vendors are given581access to VA's data, what safeguards are in place? We know that582even deidentified data is not safe. AI has proven that given583enough information that technology is more than capable of584reidentifying individuals. What are the vendors doing with that585data? Are they turning around and selling it or the product of586their work outside of the VA? Are they then selling other587products created using veterans' data back to VA at a premium?588We owe it to our veterans and American taxpayers to provide589answers to these questions and more.590    My bill, H.R. 7280, the Veteran Data Accountability for591Third Party Actors Act, or Veteran DATA Act, will prevent the592VA from entering into a contract with a third-party vendor that593permits them to sell or otherwise monetize veterans data. It594gives the Secretary 1 year to ensure that all of the VA's595relevant contracts have been modified to ensure the veterans596are prevented from selling or otherwise monetizing veterans'597personal information. It also requires that the Secretary598develop policies to instruct employees on how to recognize when599contractors are monetizing veterans' personal information.600    Finally, the Veteran DATA Act requires VA to provide a601report to Congress detailing the clause added to all VA602contracts, guidance provided to VA employees, and any other603relevant information. I want to thank Chairman Barrett for604working with me on this bill. We owe it to our veterans to do605everything in our power to ensure that their data is locked606down and that when it is used, that it is in the service to the607veterans. My bill does just that.608    Thank you, Madam Chair, and I will yield back.609    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you.610    The chair now recognizes Ms. Mace for 3 minutes.611612                    STATEMENT OF NANCY MACE613614    Ms. Mace. Thank you, Madam Chair. Among the 12 proposals we615are discussing today is my bill, the Veterans Affairs616Management and Oversight of Software Assets, or the VAMOSA Act.617This bill would address the VA's lack of a comprehensive618inventory of its software licenses, leading to duplicate619purchases, unused licenses, and a significant amount of waste.620This is money the VA could be spending to better care for our621veterans.622    In the VA's prepared testimony today, they essentially say,623do not worry, Congress, we have it covered. We do not need you624to make us fix our messes. Actually, I think we do. Just this625week, the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO)626reaffirmed the VA still does not effectively track software627licenses that are currently in use and does not regularly628compare the inventories of software licenses that are currently629in use to purchase records.630    With that, Madam Chair, I yield back. Thank you.631    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you.632    The chair now recognizes Mr. Kennedy for 3 minutes.633634                  STATEMENT OF TIMOTHY KENNEDY635636    Mr. Kennedy. Thank you. Chair Kiggans, Ranking Member637Ramirez, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the638opportunity to speak today in support of my bill, H.R. 8010,639the VA Police Recruitment and Retention Act of 2026.640    I would like to start by congratulating AFGE on the court-641ordered reinstatement of their collective bargaining agreement.642Strong labor protections matter because they directly affect643recruitment, retention, and morale across the VA workforce,644including the VA police officers, which brings me to my bill,645the VA Police Recruitment and Retention Act, which would646prohibit Secretary Collins from downgrading VA police officers647to lower pay grades for doing the exact same job they are648already doing. At a time when VA is already struggling to649recruit and retain officers, we should not be cutting their650pay.651    To understand why this bill is necessary, it is important652to understand what VA police officers do every day. These653officers are responsible for protecting veterans, doctors,654nurses, and staff inside VA hospitals and clinics, facilities655that are often open 24 hours a day and deal with everything656from mental health crises to violent incidents. They are doing657this job right now while severely understaffed. According to658the VA Office of Inspector General (OIG), nearly 60 percent of659VA facilities report police staffing shortages, making it the660most severe nonclinical staffing shortage across the entire661Department.662    At the same time, VA is considering downgrading more than66395 percent of VA police positions by as many as four pay grades664due to an U.S. Office of Personnel Management (OPM)665classification review. In Buffalo, a two grade downgrade could666mean a pay cut of roughly $10,000 a year. Remember, they are667considering up to as many as four pay grade downgrades. At the668very moment we are struggling to recruit and retain officers,669we are about to tell them that they will be paid less to do the670same dangerous job.671    We are already seeing what happens when staffing is not672there. In Pickens County, Georgia, a VA social worker was shot673inside the clinic and later died from his injuries. There was674no VA police officer onsite, and someone had to go looking for675an officer during an active shooting situation, something that676should never happen at a facility serving our veterans.677    If these downgrades go forward, many experienced officers678will leave for other Federal, State, or local law enforcement679agencies that offer higher pay. When they leave existing680staffing shortages will get worse, response times will681increase, security gaps will grow, and our veterans and the682healthcare workers who treat them will pay the price. That is683why my bill is so important. This bill is about recruitment,684retention, and ultimately safety.685    We ask VA police officers to protect the people who serve686this country. We must make sure we are not cutting their pay687while they are being asked to do more with less.688    I yield back.689    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you.690    The chair now recognizes Ms. King-Hinds for 3 minutes.691692               STATEMENT OF KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS693694    Ms. King-Hinds. Thank you, Chairwoman Kiggans, for the695opportunity to speak on a critical new piece of legislation696that I am proud to lead, H.R. 7795, the Veterans Affairs697Subcontractor Competition and Opportunity Network Act, also698called the VA SUBCON Act. At its core, this bill addresses a699simple but significant oversight gap within the Department of700Veterans Affairs.701    Today, while the VA sets goals for contracting with702veteran-owned and service-disabled veteran-owned small703businesses, we lack clear visibility into how subcontracting704decisions are actually made. Too often, large prime contractors705rely on the same group of preferred partners, which leaves many706qualified veteran-owned businesses without a meaningful707opportunity to compete and grow. This is not just a missed708opportunity, it is a structural barrier, one coming from the709Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI) that I am710all too familiar with.711    The VA SUBCON Act offers a straightforward and low-cost712solution. It directs the VA to establish a centralized vetted713data base of certified veteran-owned small businesses that714government contractors can access when developing their715subcontracting plans. By making this information available at716the right time during the solicitation process, we can expand717access while increasing competition and ensuring subcontracting718goals are more than just a box to check.719    Importantly, this bill uses resources and includes a sunset720provision ensuring accountability and allowing Congress to721evaluate its effectiveness. This is about transparency, it is722about fairness, and it is about making sure that the businesses723owned by those who served our country have a real opportunity724to succeed.725    I urge my colleagues to support H.R. 7795. Together, let us726make sure our vets are not just thanked for their services, but727truly support it when they run small businesses.728    Thank you. I yield back.729    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you.730    The chair now recognizes Mr. Self for 3 minutes.731732                    STATEMENT OF KEITH SELF733734    Mr. Self. Thank you, Chairwoman, for the opportunity to735speak on behalf of my bill. H.R. 7319, the VA Bonus and736Relocation Recovery Act.737    Currently, the VA is authorized to report--to recover738bonuses, awards, and relocation expenses that should not have739been paid to VA employees due to misconduct or poor740performance. Unfortunately, the statutory authority only741applies to current VA employees and does not clearly extend to742individuals who have already separated from the Department.743That means a VA employee who engaged in misconduct, received744taxpayer-funded bonuses or relocation payments that they should745not have received and then separated from the Department on746their own volition may be able to keep that money. This is a747failure in responsible stewardship of taxpayer dollars.748    These are not insignificant funds. For Fiscal Year 2020749through 2023, VA OIG identified at least 17.5 million in750incentive payments that should have been subject to debt751collection, with an additional 4.6 million in improper752retention payments that should warrant recoupment. My bill, the753VA Bonus and Relocation Recovery Act, corrects this. It754clarifies that the VA's authority to recoup bonuses and awards755extends to former employees.756    Second, I would like the opportunity to speak on behalf of757my bill, H.R. 7950. It addresses the persistent and bipartisan758concern the Department of Veterans Affairs is too often759struggling to provide Congress with timely and complete760information. That breakdown does not just affect this761committee, it affects our ability to serve veterans. When762Congress cannot get clear answers, oversight suffers and the763issues veterans face take longer to fix.764    Too often this committee has encountered delays, incomplete765responses, or filtered information. This slows down our work766and it limits our ability to act and allows known problems to767persist longer than they should. This bill would restructure768and codify the Department of Veterans Affairs' Office of769Congressional and Legislative Affairs. In order to facilitate a770better flow of information between the VA and Congress, a clear771structure and lines of responsibility will be established.772    I ask for my colleagues to support both of these bills and773I yield back.774    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you.775    Before hearing their testimony, I want to introduce the776witnesses on today's first panel. Since they just called votes,777what we will do is we will introduce the panel and then we will778recess for votes and then return.779    Representing the Department of Veteran Affairs, we have780Ilsa Wiechers, Acting Deputy Assistant Under Secretary for781Health for Patient Care Services, Veterans Health782Administration. Dr. Wiechers is accompanied by Mr. Rondy Waye,783executive director, Human Capital Programs, Office of the Chief784Human Capital Officer, Human Resources Administration; and Mr.785Jeffrey Neil, associate executive director, Technology786Acquisition Center, Office of Acquisition, Logistics, and787Construction.788    I will ask the witnesses on the panel to please stand and789raise your right hand.790    [Witnesses sworn.]791    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you. Let the record reflect that all792witnesses answered in the affirmative. You may be seated.793    We will go ahead and recess now for votes and we will794return and then we will recognize the witnesses.795    [Recess.]796    Mr. Ciscomani. [Presiding.] Thank you. Thank you, Members,797and thank you to the witnesses for being here.798    Mr.--I am sorry, Dr. Wiechers, you are recognized for 5799minutes to provide your testimony on behalf of the Department800of Veteran Affairs.801802                   STATEMENT OF ILSE WIECHERS803804    Dr. Wiechers. Chairwoman Kiggans, Ranking Member Ramirez,805and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity806to share the Department's views on the legislation before you807today. I am joined today by Mr. Rondy Waye, executive director,808Human Capital Programs; and Mr. Jeffrey Neil, associate809executive director, Technology Acquisition Center at the VA. In810the interest of time, my remarks will focus on seven bills with811fuller analysis provided in our written statement.812    First, the VA Subcontractor Competition and Opportunity813Network Act. VA supports the bill's intent, but has concerns814about potential duplication with U.S. Small Business815Administration (SBA) mechanisms and the risk of unintentionally816excluding qualified veteran-owned and service-disabled veteran-817owned small businesses.818    On sterile processing technicians' certifications, VA819supports the goal of strong sterile processing practices, but820notes that legislation is unnecessary because VA already has821authority to set qualifications and certification expectations.822    Turning to modifying the rate of pay under the Veterans823Community Care Program, VA must express significant concerns.824Implementing location-specific rates would require825renegotiating thousands of agreements and major operational and826Information Technology (IT) changes potentially affecting827provider participation, payment timeliness, and clarity for828veterans.829    Regarding the FMLA expansion for VA employees, VA defers to830the Office of Personnel Management which oversees831governmentwide FMLA policy.832    On the VA Police Recruitment and Retention Act of 2026, VA833cannot support the bill as written due to conflicts with title8345 classification principles and risks of inequitable or835prohibited personnel practices.836    For the Clarify and Expand Assistant Secretary for837Management Authority Bill, VA supports the intent subject to838amendments and available appropriations and is assessing839potential resource implications.840    Finally, regarding the draft OCLA bill, VA's evaluation841remains ongoing and the Department will provide its views to842the committee after the hearing.843    In closing, VA appreciates the strengthening veteran care,844oversight, and the workforce that serves our Nation's veterans.845We look forward to continued collaboration as these proposals846progress. I am happy to answer any questions.847848    [The Prepared Statement Of Ilse Wiechers Appears In The849Appendix]850851    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, Doctor, for your testimony. The852written statement of Dr. Wiechers will be entered into the853hearing record.854    We will now turn to questions and I yield myself 5 minutes.855    I want to thank you again for being with us and I want to856just start off with talking about a specific bill here. I am857proud to have introduced the Vets Collections, Liquidity, and858Efficiency Accountability for Reinvestment (CLEAR) Act859legislation focused on the simple but crucial goal, making sure860every dollar owed to the Department of Veteran Affairs is861recovered and reinvested into care for our veterans.862    Right now the VA provides millions of appointments every863year, including care that should be reimbursed by third-party864payers, like private insurance. Too often, these funds are865delayed, lost in bureaucracy, and not effectively returned to866where they belong, back into the care of our veterans. The Vets867CLEAR Act fixes that. The bill improves how the VA recovers and868collects revenue, gives the Department more flexibility, and869ensures funds are properly deposited in the Medical Care870Collections Fund, and strengthens oversight so Congress and the871American people can see exactly how these dollars are being872used. At its core, this is about accountability and results.873    I am sorry. Yep. Doctor, to you as well, how will this bill874that I just described, the Vets CLEAR Act, which reinvests875recovered funds into the Medical Care Collections Fund, improve876patient care?877    Dr. Wiechers. Thank you, sir, for the question. VA supports878this bill in part because we share the desire that the879legislation has in consolidating more funds in the Medical Care880Collections Fund (MCCF), which is more flexible in its ability881to directly return funds to our facilities, which then can be882used directly to provide medical care and services for our883veterans. It does so, that fund has no Fiscal Year obligation884requirements, and so it is more flexible. That is one of the885reasons why we are supporting the bill, but with some concerns,886as we noted in our written testimony.887    Mr. Ciscomani. Great. Thank you.888    Mr. Waye, if I can go to you real quick. If the VA is able889to recover and reinvest more funding efficiently, as it was890mentioned, how could that support hiring, retention and891workforce stability?892    Mr. Waye. Oh, thank you for the question. Certainly,893anytime we have additional funding, that could possibly go894toward filling jobs or positions.895    Mr. Ciscomani. Can you expand on that a little bit, please,896on how--maybe using some examples and how the support can help?897    Mr. Waye. Well, I mean, obviously, again, if we are talking898about having additional funds that are coming back in the899coffers, we could actually be able to use that to identify900where we have critical positions that need to be filled, and we901can put that money toward setting up a recruitment plan to fill902positions in those shortage categories.903    Mr. Ciscomani. Mr. Neil, I will squeeze in one more904question here. Does legislation like this align with broader905efforts to modernize VA systems and improve financial906management, and how?907    Mr. Neil. Thank you for the question. If to the extent that908it returns money and makes money available, whether it be for909hiring or for acquisition of supplies and services that are910needed by the agency, then, yes, it does support acquisition in911the sense that every dollar can go further and dollars that912would might otherwise not be available become available and can913be directed toward critical areas that are unfunded at the914time.915    Mr. Ciscomani. Great. Thank you.916    Now I yield to the Ranking Member Ramirez, and then yield917to members going back and forth between sides. You are918recognized.919    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Congressman. Well, first, I want920to--I know I mentioned this at the beginning of our committee921hearing, but I want to once again commend the unions for their922hard fought win in court ordering the restoration of AFGE's923collective bargaining agreements. I want to make sure that I924also put on the record that I urge Secretary Collins to comply925with this order fully and to reinstate the remaining union926agreements as well.927    I want to get into the questions. Mr. Waye, my bill is a VA928Employee Family Care Expansion Act. It codifies the basic right929of employees to be able to use Family Medical Leave Act to take930time off to care for their in-laws. My question to you, Mr.931Waye, is why did the VA eliminate this right? What was the932rationale?933    Mr. Waye. Thank you. Thank you for the question. Are you934speaking toward the actual collective labor agreement?935    Ms. Ramirez. I am talking about specifically the Family936Medical Leave Act that would allow for staff of the VA to be937able to take care of their in-laws. Why did the VA eliminate938this right from its workers?939    Mr. Waye. Okay. Thank you for the question. We did not940eliminate the right. I mean right now employees still can take941care of their in-laws. They can use sick leave to do that.942    Ms. Ramirez. Give me 1 second, Mr. Waye. I figured you943would say that, but, in fact, that was not the case. Prior they944were able to take the time off and now they have to use their945sick leave, which means that if, in fact, an employee gets sick946and needs to take time off, the they would not have that time947in order to be able to take care of their family after. Let me948ask you a question. The policy did in fact change, right? They949now can use sick leave, but they are not able to take the leave950that they were able to deprive, is that right?951    Mr. Waye. Well, they do not have the--right, those are not952covered by the collective bargaining agreement.953    Ms. Ramirez. Is it the VA's position that, because it is954specifically to in-laws, that they are not considered family?955    Mr. Waye. No, that is not our position. What we are saying956is that for this particular one we are deferring to the Office957of Personnel Management on the bill overall because it is958something that would apply not just to the VA, but typically959would apply across the board to Federal employees. Typically,960when OPM looks at this, they normally do not have carve-outs961for a Federal organization.962    Ms. Ramirez. Well, let me ask you, Mr.--okay. Mr. Waye, let963me ask you a follow-up question on this. With the shifts and964changes, do you have a sense of how many employees this change965in policy would affect?966    Mr. Waye. No, no, I do not have exactly a number in terms967of how it would affect because we still--again, the Family968Medical Leave Act, paid parental leave, and the other leave is969still available.970    Ms. Ramirez. It does not apply for your spouse's parents,971correct?972    Mr. Waye. Not for the spouse's parents, that is correct.973    Ms. Ramirez. What I heard you say is that you can just use974sick leave to care for your in-laws. You know, let me make sure975that I ask you this question on the record. What happens if976they exhaust their sick leave? What leave can they use to help977their family if an in-law has long-term illness?978    Mr. Waye. If an in-law has long-term illness, they can also979request and receive approval for annual leave. We also have980leave without pay that is available, that can be requested.981Those determinations are made on a case-by-case basis.982    Ms. Ramirez. Mr. Waye, can you do me a favor for the983record, could you try to get me information of how many people984would be impacted by the policy change? We can follow up later.985I appreciate it.986    I want to follow up with one of my last questions here987given time. Mr. Waye, on March 13th, a Federal judge in Rhode988Island issued an injunction ordering Secretary Collins to989restore VA's collective bargaining agreement with the American990Federation of Government Employees. It has now been nearly 2991weeks and the VA has done absolutely nothing to comply with992this injunction. Instead, what we are seeing is that the VA993human resources officials across the country say they are994waiting for guidance from the VA central office before995restoring critical benefits and workplace rights to AFGE996represented employees.997    My question is, Secretary Collins talks a lot about so-998called accountability, but what authority does the VA have to999defy orders from a Federal judge?1000    Mr. Waye. Well, thank you for the question. Ma'am, VA is1001not defying the order. We reviewed the order and engaged the1002Department of Justice, and we were basically working with the1003Department of Justice for guidance on how to correctly1004implement the order.1005    Ms. Ramirez. Okay. My follow-up to you is, can you tell me1006specific steps that the VA is taking to restore the CBA for the1007320,000 employees impacted?1008    Mr. Waye. Ma'am, right now I am deferring, again, deferring1009to the Department of Justice further guidance. We will continue1010to collaborate with them. Once the determination----1011    Ms. Ramirez. You are not able to give me any specific steps1012at this moment?1013    Mr. Waye. At this time, we are deferring to the Department1014of Justice.1015    Ms. Ramirez. Unfortunate. Okay. Well, thank you. Time is1016up. If we have another round, I would like to follow up. Thank1017you.1018    I yield back.1019    Ms. Radewagen. [Presiding.] Representative King-Hinds for 51020minutes.1021    Ms. King-Hinds. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. First of1022all, I want to say thank you very much for your thoughtful1023assessment of the VA SUBCON Act that I have introduced. This1024legislation is personal to me because there is a lot--you know,1025we have a lot of folks who are returning home who are vets. One1026of the very few economic opportunities that are available on1027the island is a direct result of a lot of this defense1028spending, Department of Defense (DOD) spending--or Department1029of War spending on the Islands to build facilities for the1030Department of War, you know, construction and whatnot. Right? I1031want to make sure that they are able to fully participate.1032    What I have been seeing as a trend is that, you know, these1033big primes, they come and build relationship with these small1034subcontractors and emerging small businesses, they just get1035boxed out in perpetuity. This is kind of like the underlying1036thought and the driving, I guess, rationale behind this bill.1037In reading your feedback, you pointed out that you were not1038clear with regards to some of the intent behind one of, you1039know, the exclusions in the bill. Right? I just kind of want to1040have a conversation with that with you.1041    One, you are worried that basically excluding any company1042that has ever participated in a joint venture or like the1043Mentor-Protege Program, for example, is going to have an impact1044on unnecessarily excluding types of participation. I guess for1045me, the goal is to prevent large firms from hiding behind joint1046ventures or these Mentor-Protege structures to dominate1047subcontracting opportunities meant specifically for small--1048veteran small businesses. I want to work with you to be able to1049further refine and clarify that language to ensure that we1050accomplish that goal.1051    I think you also had concerns about the Contractor1052Performance Assessment Reporting System (CPARS) rating1053threshold. Right? If I am understanding you correctly, your1054argument is that a contractor could receive many poor ratings,1055but still qualify with just two satisfactory ratings. I guess1056my intent basically is not to create an elite list, but to1057ensure newer or smaller veteran firms are not locked out1058because they lack performance histories. Because you have1059stated that it is not clear what the intent is behind the1060exclusion, I just want to put that on record and, hopefully,1061work with you to be able to achieve the objective that I am1062seeking with regards to this bill.1063    With that being said, I do have a question for Mr. Neil, or1064whoever in the panel who can answer this, and I want to get a1065better understanding from you as to how do contracting officers1066ensure primes are flowing down task orders to their contract1067subcontractors efficiently.1068    Mr. Neil. Thank you for the question and thank you a lot1069with the explanation on some of the areas that were unclear.1070    Encouraging work to be shared with subcontractors,1071particularly subcontractors that are service-disabled veteran-1072owned small businesses or veteran-owned small businesses is a1073part of the responsibilities of the contracting officer. When1074awards are made to other than small businesses, we have1075requirements in the Federal acquisition regulation to encourage1076that degree of sharing the work and trying to develop those1077small businesses. Then we ask for a subcontracting plan that is1078tied to the goals of the agency for specific categories of1079small businesses. We review that plan as a requirement prior to1080the award of a contract.1081    Also understand, some contracts really have no or limited1082subcontracting opportunities. For contracts that are going to1083other than small businesses for which there are subcontracting1084opportunities, that is something that we put in the contracts1085to require the development of a plan. We oversee and approve1086the plan and reach out to other agencies, such as the Small1087Business Administration, to assist when we are unsure as to1088what is being proposed to us by the prime contractors.1089    I hope that helps you understand that we identify the1090contracts where it is appropriate, we include the clauses that1091are relevant, and then we consult with other agencies who1092assist in the development of those plans.1093    Ms. King-Hinds. I am out of time. I yield back, Madam1094Chair.1095    Thank you and looking forward to working with you.1096    Ms. Radewagen. I would now like to recognize Representative1097Kennedy for 5 minutes.1098    Mr. Kennedy. Thank you. I would like to follow up on some1099of the issues I raised in my opening statement, particularly1100when it comes to staffing levels, recruitment, and the1101potential impact of these downgrades.1102    Mr. Waye, how many VA police officers are currently1103employed across the Department and of those officers, how many1104are currently facing potential downgrades as a result of1105reclassification?1106    Mr. Waye. Thank you for the question. We have approximately11073,700 that are on board right now. The breakout, the number of1108positions potentially impacted by the downgrades, approximately1109900.1110    Mr. Kennedy. You said 900?1111    Mr. Waye. Correct, positions, impacting up to--impacting a1112couple thousand employees.1113    Mr. Kennedy. Just for the record, I want to make clear,1114first of all, thank you for your answer. That is the first1115answer that we have been able to get out of the VA. You know,1116we have heard 95 percent of VA police officers are facing this1117potential downgrade. As you know, the VA conducts exit surveys1118for departing employees. For the 357 police officers, that is1119the number I have, who have left since January of last year,1120what were their top reasons for leaving and were the proposed1121downgrades mentioned in the exit surveys?1122    Mr. Waye. Thank you for the question. I do not have the1123specific information with me concerning the actual, you know,1124kind of what they provided in the exit surveys. I will mention1125this, that we have paused any downgrades for these positions.1126We are currently collaborating with the Office of Personnel1127Management, looking at additional options to address, you know,1128the classification and so forth of those positions, and we will1129continue to do that.1130    We understand and acknowledge the concerns regarding the1131downgrades. It is not something that we are--we necessarily1132look forward to doing. However, we do have an obligation to1133comply with the Office of Personnel Management classification1134standards and then applicable regulations and laws.1135    Mr. Kennedy. Just simply yes or no, because I want to make1136sure I understand what you are saying, are the police officers1137at the VA, are they included in the exit surveys?1138    Mr. Waye. I would have to verify that. I believe all1139employees have an opportunity to participate in exit surveys.1140    Mr. Kennedy. Okay, good. I would like to see how they have1141classified their reasons for leaving. We have heard that a1142number of individuals are leaving because or considering1143leaving because of the downgrades in salary, being asked to do1144more with less. During these trying times, that is just not1145acceptable. Would you agree that the VA police force has faced1146long-standing recruitment challenges and sustainability1147challenges?1148    Mr. Waye. Thank you for the question. Well, sir, I would1149say that there is--it is been--that there certainly--we1150certainly have recruitment challenges. As you know, the1151classification standards apply to other Federal agencies as1152well. We know that is an issue in terms of the grade levels.1153Again, our goal is to continue to collaborate with the Office1154of Personnel Management.1155    I know one thing they are looking at now is kind of looking1156at having a review of all of the classification standards. The1157classification standards for the police officers I think was1158last updated back in 1988. There is certainly a possibility1159that that is something that will be reviewed in the near future1160and perhaps have some impact on the outcome of grades.1161    Mr. Kennedy. Just as a reminder from my opening statement,1162the VA's own inspector general has reported a severe staffing1163shortage, upwards of 60 percent at VA facilities, the largest1164staffing shortage across the entire Department. Then you add1165that to the fact that we are now downgrading potentially 951166percent of the police officer positions. Do not you believe1167that that has a major impact on retention and sustainability of1168officers and recruitment?1169    Mr. Waye. Sir, I believe, thank you for the question, I1170believe it could--it does have--it could have some impact on1171retention. I will say this. One, we are still hopeful that we1172will not be downgrading 95 percent of our employees. In the1173event that we get to a point where we have to conduct a1174downgrade, then obviously we have grade and pay retention that1175will come into play where employees would not feel, you know,1176an immediate loss in pay and then they have saved pay as well.1177    Mr. Kennedy. I am out of time, but I just will say briefly1178that this is not about pay grades, but it is about whether1179clinics and hospitals have trained law enforcement personnel to1180keep veterans, doctors, nurses, and other staff safe.1181    I yield back. Thank you.1182    Ms. Radewagen. I would now like to recognize Dr. Conaway1183for 5 minutes. Thank you.1184    Mr. Conaway. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Ranking1185Member Ramirez, for holding this hearing. Certainly I want to1186thank our witnesses for presenting themselves to us today.1187    It is--you know, pay is about how you respect the people1188who work there. There needs to be understanding that these1189systems, these institutions are systems that need everybody1190working and respecting them, the job functions that they have.1191    Let me turn to one of the bills being taken up today,1192specifically H.R. 7950, which would codify the Office of1193Congressional and Legislative Affairs, OCLA. It provides a1194number of authorities and functions that the OCLA is to1195perform. Specifically, this bill would ensure timely and1196accurate responses to the House and Senate Veterans' Affairs1197Committees. We know that this office has often struggled to1198provide responses to Congress and this has to be addressed.1199    I know our office and in my district has a number--there is1200a lot of casework that comes to us related to veterans who are1201concerned about their benefits and other issues related to1202their service. We rely on the Office of Legislative Affairs to1203help us help the veterans in our district.1204    Was this department, was the OCLA impacted by Department of1205Government Efficiency (DOGE) in its reduction in staff1206initiatives or voluntary early retirement authority?1207    Dr. Wiechers. Thank you for the question, sir. I am not1208prepared to speak to this bill as the Department is still1209conducting its review and I do not have information at this1210time to address your question specifically. I would be happy to1211take it back and provide you an answer after.1212    Mr. Conaway. Well, thank you, Ms. Wiechers. I would say1213that it would appear that this office, as it is currently1214staffed, is simply not able to keep up with the amount of1215requests that come to it. In some cases I am told that it takes1216almost 105 business days to give a response to Congress and1217congressional offices. When we looked up on the website, it1218seems that there are only four people working in that office1219that is going to have to handle casework inquiries that come in1220from around the country. It would seem to me that four people1221are going to have a very difficult time, just with the amount1222of requests that come in through my own office, keeping up with1223the amount of correspondence that they have to provide back to1224districts. You can understand if there are only 4 people there,1225why it would take 105 business days to get these responses out.1226    I hope that you will look at it and give some consideration1227to the functioning of that office and how important it is for1228us and our responsibility as Congresspersons to address the1229inquiries that come into our offices no matter what community1230is bringing their issues to us. Particularly when our veteran1231community comes to us, I think there is a particularly1232important responsibility that we have to meet.1233    Let me move on to H.R. 7280, the Veteran DATA Act of 2026.1234It would prevent third-party vendors that work with the1235Department of Veterans Affairs from selling, monetizing, or1236otherwise misusing veterans' data.1237    Mr. Neil, with the VA granting vendors access to data to1238train AI models, how is the VA protecting veteran data and1239setting parameters on what contractors and their AI tools are1240able to access and be trained on?1241    Mr. Neil. Thank you for the question. Let me just say that1242we do support the bill. There are just some issues that I want1243to highlight in my response to your question.1244    The risks that you identified there with training on AI,1245let me just say there are a number of things within the Federal1246Acquisition Regulation, within VA policy, specifically1247Directive 6500 and Handbook 6500.6, that address how data that1248is provided to contractors can be used appropriately and what1249cannot be done with that data. From the regulation, from VA1250policy, the concerns with the use of data and the inappropriate1251use of data is pretty comprehensively addressed in existing law1252and regulation. That is how it has been handled within the1253Department, that it is done through contract language. It is1254also done by overseeing the data that is being shared. It is1255just some of the----1256    Mr. Conaway. Let me just reclaim my time for a minute1257because I want to ask another question on the record. Are you1258aware of whether or not these DOGE operatives have absconded1259with any of the data in the VA?1260    Mr. Neil. Thank you for the question. I am not aware of any1261DOGE employee or other employee that may have absconded with1262data, but I can certainly take that question back and see if I1263can find out.1264    Mr. Conaway. Thank you. Please do and get a response to us.1265    Thank you, Madam Chair.1266    Ms. Radewagen. I would now like to recognize myself for 51267minutes.1268    Dr. Wiechers, in your testimony you state that legislation1269is not needed to certify sterile processing technicians, yet1270less than 50 percent of the SPT workforce is certified. If VA1271has this authority, why is it not using it?1272    Dr. Wiechers. Thank you, ma'am, for the question. I would1273like to mention first that we agree and are appreciative of the1274intent of this bill and the focus and attention being paid to1275how sterile processing and our staff who conduct sterile1276processing are vital members of our health system and that they1277help to ensure the safety of our patients and our veterans and1278of our other staff.1279    I will say that VA does already have authority under our1280policies to oversee certification and education requirements1281for sterile processing. We have an internal VHA certification1282process that is free for all staff to take. That requires 4001283hours of hands-on experience to become eligible to take the1284certification exam and that requires additional annual1285continuing education for maintenance of that certification,1286which is on par with some of the other accreditation programs.1287    We also follow the Joint Commission standards as it relates1288to competencies for sterile processing. In so doing, that means1289all of our sterile processing staff must show and prove their1290competency in reprocessing of reusable medical devices under1291direct observation. For our highest risk devices, they have to1292recertify on that--or they have to redemonstrate their1293competency in that every year. Again, that is in alignment with1294the Joint Commission standard.1295    Ms. Radewagen. Mr. Waye, how does access to the job1296training and certifications improve VA's workforce and patient1297outcomes?1298    Mr. Waye. Thank you for the question. Certainly having1299highly trained folks improve--highly trained employees improve1300their ability to deliver services. We do have some concerns1301regarding having this as a requirement prior to coming on1302board. As most are aware, we compete with a large number of1303medical providers and healthcare institutions across the1304Nation. We found that the more that is required on the front1305end, more folks are screened out who might otherwise be very,1306very qualified to come into the position and also receive their1307certification after coming on board.1308    Ms. Radewagen. Mr. Waye, how often does VA recoup bonuses1309from current employees if they have substantiated allegations1310of misconduct or poor performance? Why do you not use your1311authority? Could not those funds be recouped and awarded to1312employees who are more deserving?1313    Mr. Waye. Thank you for the question. First, I just want to1314state that our evaluation of this bill is ongoing. We take--we1315only take recruitment action whenever it meets the criteria1316outlined in the statute and in our VA policy. Specifically,1317that is when employees have engaged in misconduct, poor1318performance, or, in the case of relocation expenses, fraud or1319malfeasance. We--that is not something that occurs all that1320often. When it does occur, we take actions. We follow the1321process, which includes due process, an opportunity for them to1322receive a notice outlining, you know, what they have done, what1323we are looking to recoup, an opportunity to reply. Then we1324issue an order and decision, and they have the ability to1325appeal that.1326    Ms. Radewagen. Dr. Wiechers, how will Representative1327Ciscomani's the Vets CLEAR Act which reinvests recovered funds1328into the Medic Medical Care Collections Fund improve patient1329care?1330    Dr. Wiechers. Thank you for the question. By retaining1331additional revenue funds into the MCCF Fund from Civilian1332Health and Medical Program of the Department of Veterans1333Affairs (CHAMPVA), from our VA-DOD sharing resources, and from1334the False Claims Act, taking those additional moneys and1335putting them into the MCCF allows us to move those funds back1336directly to facilities. Those facilities can then use those1337moneys directly for medical care and services of our veterans.1338It does so in a way that has more transparency and less1339complicated workflows in our accounting and financing, and,1340therefore, gets money to where we need it faster and more1341cleanly and more clearly with greater transparency.1342    Ms. Radewagen. Thank you.1343    The first panel of witnesses is now excused, and I would1344like to invite the second panel of witnesses to come forward.1345    On our second panel, we will hear from the following1346witnesses. Mr. Cole Lyle, the director of the Veterans Affairs1347and Rehabilitation Division in the Washington, DC, Office of1348the American Legion. Mr. Joseph Avila, administrator of the1349Sterile Processing Department of the University of Virginia1350Health System. Ms. Brittany Madni, executive vice president for1351the Economic Policy Innovation Center. Sergeant Guerrero, vice1352president of the American Federation of Government Employees,1353Local 3511.1354    I would now like to welcome the witnesses on our second1355panel to the witness table. There you are. I ask you to please1356stand and raise your right hand.1357    [Witnesses sworn.]1358    Ms. Radewagen. Thank you. Let the record reflect that all1359witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Thank you all for1360your attendance and testimony this afternoon.1361    Mr. Lyle, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver1362your testimony on behalf of the American Legion.13631364                     STATEMENT OF COLE LYLE13651366    Mr. Lyle. Well, thank you, Madam Chair, Ranking Member1367Ramirez, and distinguished members of the Subcommittee. On1368behalf of National Commander Dan K. Wiley and the more than 1.51369million dues-paying members of the American Legion, I thank you1370for the opportunity to appear before you today.1371    Across the bills under consideration, one common theme1372emerges: the VA must become a better steward of the resources1373and trust veterans have placed in it. We see this clearly in1374the management of software assets. VA spent roughly 21 billion1375on software licenses and systems between Fiscal Year 2022 and13762024. Yet a recent GAO report found the Department still cannot1377accurately track how many licenses it uses. According to GAO's1378written testimony, without implementing comprehensive guidance1379for managing the impacts of restrictive software license1380practices, VA is not well-positioned to identify and analyze1381the impact or mitigate any risks they present. The result is1382wasted taxpayer dollars and inefficient operations.1383    H.R. 6654 takes a practical step toward fixing that by1384requiring a comprehensive inventory, centralized oversight, and1385annual reporting. With modest amendments to ensure the most1386efficient implementation, we believe this bill will deliver1387meaningful long-term savings that can be redirected back to1388veteran care.1389    We see the same need for stronger stewardship over1390veterans' sensitive personal data. In the era of sophisticated1391scams and rapidly advancing technology, including AI that can1392sometimes reidentify anonymized records, veterans are rightly1393concerned about who has access to their information and how it1394is used. The Veteran DATA Act would seek to close gaps by1395prohibiting contractors from selling or monetizing veterans1396data and providing training to assist employees to identify1397this insensitive information. While we support the overall goal1398of the bill, we recommend targeted amendments to avoid1399unnecessary renegotiation of contracts that may already contain1400adequate protections.1401    Under 38 U.S.C. 721, the Secretary of Veterans Affairs can1402order a current VA employee to repay all or part of a bonus or1403award if misconduct or poor performance is later discovered.1404However, this authority does not clearly extend to former1405employees who have already left the Department, either1406voluntarily or through termination. There is similar limited1407authority under 38 U.S.C. 723 for recouping relocation1408expenses, but, again, it primarily applies to if the person is1409still employed.1410    In practice, once an employee separates from VA, the1411Department's ability to recover improperly paid bonuses,1412awards, or relocation incentives become becomes very difficult1413or impossible. The VA Bonus and Relocation Recovery Act is1414specifically designed to close this loophole. If passed, it1415would explicitly authorize the Secretary to recoup bonuses,1416awards, and relocation from former employees when the Secretary1417determines the payment would not have been made. We support the1418bill also with amendments to strengthen due process and clarify1419the judicial reviews of major adverse actions under title 38,1420include former employees, and shorten the statute of1421limitations as we believe 6 years is too onerous on the former1422employee.1423    Strong financial management is foundational to everything1424the VA does. For too long material weaknesses in VA's financial1425reporting have frustrated Congress and undermined confidence in1426the Department's budget requests. The VA Fiscal Management1427Modernization Act would give the chief financial officer the1428clear statutory authority and structure needed to fix these1429long-standing problems. We support the bill, but recommend1430clear lines of reporting be included.1431    We also support the underlying goals of the Vets CLEAR Act,1432but recommend clarifying the language to ensure it achieves its1433intended purpose without creating confusion in the regulatory1434process.1435    The VA SUBCON Act expanding opportunities for veteran-owned1436small businesses is also a good idea. However, the SBA utilizes1437an existing tool and should be the lead agency on this effort.1438We have further concerns that the specific exclusion of certain1439subcontractors would ultimately be detrimental to the bill's1440stated goal.1441    Finally, we strongly support measures to protect patient1442safety and workplace security. Requiring appropriate1443professional certifications for sterile processing technicians1444is common sense, but we recommend a reimbursement of initial1445certification and a time requirement for completion so as not1446to disincentivize recruitment for these low-paying GS1447positions.1448    Chairwoman and Ranking Member, the American Legion stands1449ready to work with this subcommittee to refine these proposals1450so they deliver real results for veterans while protecting1451taxpayer dollars and maintaining the highest standards of1452accountability.1453    Thank you again for the opportunity to testify and I look1454forward to taking your questions.14551456    [The Prepared Statement Of Cole Lyle Appears In The1457Appendix]14581459    Ms. Radewagen. Thank you, Mr. Lyle. The written statement1460of Mr. Lyle will be entered into the hearing record.1461    Mr. Avila, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver1462your testimony on behalf of the Healthcare Sterile Processing1463Association.14641465                   STATEMENT OF JOSEPH AVILA14661467    Mr. Avila. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair, Ranking1468Member Ramirez, and distinguished committee members. I want to1469thank you for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of1470more than 60,000 sterile processing technicians in the United1471States and roughly the 3,400 positions serving within the1472Department of Veteran Affairs.1473    As a veteran and a sterile processing professional, I am1474honored here to speak on behalf of the sterile processing1475professionals and how to improve credentialing and training1476efforts within the VA sterile processing departments through1477the Veteran Infection Prevention Act. Sterile processing is not1478widely understood by the average patient, yet is the foundation1479of surgical safety and directly influences clinical outcomes.1480    Sterile processing technicians are responsible for the1481disassembly, kit cleaning, inspection, sterilization,1482reassembly of every surgical instrument used in patient care.1483Although many technicians do not hold advanced degrees, they1484require to maintain deep technical knowledge of more than148537,000 surgical instruments to perform their work at a high1486level of precision.1487    Take, for example, the average hospital with 15 operating1488rooms performs roughly 13,000 surgical cases annually. These1489cases require an average of 450 instruments and big picture,1490that is over 5 million instruments reprocessed in a yearly1491time. That level of complexity underscores the need for1492evidence-based standards, clinical risk mitigation, high1493reliability processes performed by certified technicians.1494    Memorial Hermann, where I previously served as a regional1495director, and at the University of Virginia Health System,1496where I currently serve as administrator, they have voluntary1497adopted credentialing requirements. Have seven states that1498require all their hospital and surgical centers. However, these1499standards do not apply to Federal operated hospitals, like1500those ran by the VA.1501    While the VA has made recent progress requiring certain1502staff, such as their facility Sterile Processing Services (SPS)1503chiefs, to obtain certification, the rest of the sterile1504processing technicians only are required to complete a online1505training management tool similar to your cybersecurity. These1506modules lack rigor, competency-based assessment, and third-1507party oversight provided by accredited certifying bodies.1508Chairwoman Kiggans' legislation requires certification from an1509accredited institution.1510    Accreditation is impartial, third party, and sets the1511standards for certification program practices and1512administration. By holding an accredited certification, you1513demonstrate to your employer, your community, and, more1514importantly, to yourself that you have the skills and knowledge1515required to complete your job as defined by the leading1516authority in the credentialing industry.1517    Similar to many industries, the surgical industry is1518constantly evolving and so are the surgical instruments.1519Ensuring a culture of safety means that staff are held to the1520same high standards like certification and resourced properly1521through regular on the job training. We believe that all1522sterile processing technicians within the VA should be1523certified and trained on a continual basis. This is why we are1524supporting the Veteran Infection Prevention Act.1525    Contaminated equipment exposes veterans to dangerous1526pathogens, costly follow-up care, lengthy delays at a facility1527when contamination occurs. There has been a number of reported1528incidents throughout the VA facilities that have resulted in1529over 1,000 cancellations or delays in treatment and over 4,5001530veterans exposed to Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) and1531hepatitis. Veterans deserve the confidence that they are1532receiving the best care and equipment properly sterilized and1533serviced.1534    On behalf of all of the sterile processing technicians, I1535want to once, excuse me, once again thank you for the1536opportunity to testify today. I look forward to any questions.15371538    [The Prepared Statement Of Joseph Avila Appears In The1539Appendix]15401541    Ms. Kiggans. [Presiding.] Thank you, Mr. Avila. The written1542statement of Mr. Avila will be entered into the record.1543    Ms. Madni, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver1544your testimony on behalf of the Economic Policy Innovation1545Center.15461547                  STATEMENT OF BRITTANY MADNI15481549    Ms. Madni. Thank you, Chairwoman. Chairwoman Kiggans,1550Ranking Member Ramirez, members of the subcommittee, thank you1551for inviting me to testify today on bills to improve the fiscal1552position of the United States Department of Veterans Affairs.1553    While I come to you as a budget expert, I am also the proud1554wife of an active soldier in the United States Army, so this1555legislation is personal to me. I hope you perform thoughtful1556oversight of the VA for those who are have served and1557sacrificed.1558    Before we can discuss the legislation at hand, we must1559first acknowledge the fiscal situation of the Nation. It is1560dire. We are running a $1.9 trillion deficit this year, we are1561spending beyond our means, and we are currently $39 trillion in1562debt. This raises interest rates, it drags economic growth, and1563it results in inflationary pressures on key sectors, including1564healthcare provided by the Veterans Health Administration.1565Every dollar spent in the veterans' budget function should be1566scrutinized to ensure it is indeed being used for veterans and1567not wasted or lost in bureaucratic morass because the need is1568most certainly apparent given the multitude of challenges our1569veterans face, from mental health struggles to homelessness,1570from job transition to civilian life reentry.1571    Since 1977, total actual outlays for veterans benefits and1572services has grown from $18.04 billion to $377 billion in1573Fiscal Year 2025. The rate of growth is notable in the previous157410 years, and the rate increases only get more extreme in U.S.1575Congressional Budget Office's (CBO) projections for the coming1576decade.1577    Of course, spending on veterans is directly impacted by1578spending on defense, with an observable lag time between Active1579Duty related outlays in the defense budget and the shift to1580veterans. Given the likely increase in defense spending due to1581the Iran conflict, it would be prudent for Congress now to rein1582in unwarranted excess spending in preparation for possible1583increases in the coming years.1584    I am not suggesting that all outlays are misspent. Many of1585the programs in the VA's budget are essential, such as ensuring1586critical access to mental health for veterans. That is where1587the tax dollars, a finite resource, should be directed.1588However, as outlays increase, so does the risk of fraud, waste,1589and abuse. One such example is a million-dollar expenditure by1590the VA on forcing ferrets to consume alcohol in a forced binge1591for theoretical future research.1592    A major part of the problem is that autopilot spending in1593the veterans budget has grown to 69 percent for Fiscal Year15942026. That means Congress is only reviewing 31 percent of what1595taxpayer money is spent on for veteran services each year. In1596total, the VA comprises only 6 percent of the entire Federal1597budget, but it is responsible for the fourth highest outlays to1598designated susceptible programs, behind only U.S. Department of1599Health and Human Services (HHS), the Social Security1600Administration, and the Department of War.1601    Last year, the VA susceptible programs outlaid a total of1602$201 billion to its 7 susceptible programs. Of this, 78 percent1603of that falls into the compensation bucket for VA employees. In1604Fiscal Year 2025, the VA had $867 million in just known1605improper payments for compensation across the agency. No wonder1606the VA is struggling to support veterans while hemorrhaging1607taxpayer dollars. Oversight must be a core component of any1608funding.1609    As the VA's budget grows, you would expect to see1610significant outcomes being improved in the veterans' quality of1611life, access to care, and health. That is not the case.1612According to the VA's Office of Suicide Prevention, veteran1613deaths by suicide rates jumped from 2001 to 2023. In 2001,1614there were 23.2 veteran suicide cases per 100,000 veterans. By16152023, this had jumped to 35.2 per 100,000 veterans. Even at the1616height of the global war on terror, this rate never increased1617above 30. This is, quite frankly, an unacceptable failure.1618    Another failure is considerable wait times veterans must1619deal with before getting care at all. It is appalling that1620employees fired for bad behavior are still able to keep their1621bonuses, including relocation pay. That was supposed to help1622push down wait times, particularly in rural communities.1623Instead these individuals have retired and are allowed to keep1624their relocation money even while those who served are stuck in1625line, unable to access critical care.1626    That brings us to today's bills. While several of the bills1627would improve the operations of the VA, I will focus my1628analysis on four.1629    First, the VA Bonus and Relocation Recovery Act. According1630to the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), the VA was1631assessed as being high risk for improper payments in the1632compensation category for the last 2 fiscal years. There is no1633additional room for overspending or failures here. The VA Bonus1634and Relocation Recovery Act would help close an important1635loophole, enabling the government to recoup dollars given to1636employees who fail to meet their contracts. Otherwise, those1637dollars are lost and there is no opportunity to use them to1638encourage wait list reductions.1639    I will also briefly just note that the VA Fiscal Management1640Modernization Act and the bill to establish the OCLA are both1641absolutely essential. It is unreasonable that this committee1642and other committees of jurisdiction, as well as the1643Congressional Budget Office, are unable to gain access to1644necessary budgetary information from the VA in a timely manner.1645Establishing these offices, these responsibilities under the1646chief financial officer, and restructuring OCLA are both1647necessary to ensure that the executive is responsive to the1648needs of you as legislators so that you can perform your1649constitutional responsibilities.1650    Finally, I will also say that the bill to modify community1651care rates is a fiscally responsible measure to prevent the VA1652from overpowering paying for medical services and costs under1653the Community Care Program. Site neutral reimbursement rates1654are not only a fiscal saver, but they help veterans by1655promoting consistent access to care and reducing out-of-pocket1656expenses.1657    I am more than happy to answer any of your questions, but1658all of these bills will improve the fiscal health of the VA.1659Not one of them will increase direct spending with a measurable1660degree over time and they will leave us better off.1661    Thank you.16621663    [The Prepared Statement Of Brittany Madni Appears In The1664Appendix]16651666    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you, Ms. Madni. The written statement of1667Ms. Madni will be entered into the hearing record.1668    Mr. Guerrero, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to1669deliver your testimony on behalf of the American Federation of1670Government Employees.16711672                  STATEMENT OF DENNIS GUERRERO16731674    Mr. Guerrero. Good afternoon. Thank you, Chairwoman1675Kiggans, Ranking Member Ramirez, and members of the committee,1676thank you for inviting AFGE to participate in today's hearings.1677    My name is Dennis ``Sarge'' Guerrero. I am a vice president1678of AFGE Local 3511 at the Audie L. Murphy VA Medical Center,1679San Antonio, Texas. For the past 18 years I have served as a VA1680police officer and have attained the rank of sergeant. I also1681proudly served in the Air Force for 20 years as a Security1682Forces member. It is a privilege to testify on behalf of AFGE1683and the National VA Council.1684    Today I plan to focus my testimony on a bill that--a bill1685affecting thousands of VA police officers across the Nation.1686AFGE and the National VA Council strongly supports H.R. 8010,1687the VA Recruitment and Retention Act, introduced by1688Representative Kennedy. This bill will prohibit OPM and the VA1689from downgrading the positions of police officers. OPM's action1690to downgrade VA police officers is a DC way of saying pay cuts.1691It is counter to the VA's mission.1692    VA police officers have a critical role in protecting the1693safety of veterans, their families, and VA employees every day.1694VA police officers attend Law Enforcement Training Center1695(LETC) for training and receive specialized training and crisis1696interventions to help veterans from harming themselves and1697others.1698    Ninety percent of VA officers are veterans themselves.1699These officers can tap into their own experiences when1700communicating with veterans and understanding the unique1701features of their facilities. This is crucial as VA police1702officers face dangers at work every day. They encounter1703veterans with deadly weapons, under the influence of drugs or1704alcohol, or experiencing Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).1705    The plan to downgrade VA police officers is dire when1706looked at with the data gathered by OIG. In Fiscal Year 2025,1707OIG found that 58 percent of VA facilities designated VA police1708as a severe occupational shortage. It is the most reported1709nonclinical shortage. In the field, these shortages harms our1710ability to perform our duties. In some facilities, new,1711expensive security scanning equipment sits unused because of1712staffing shortages. In certain A1 facilities, VA police1713officers can only respond to one emergency at a time because1714there are just not enough officers.1715    The staffing problem is also critical for Community-Based1716Outpatient Clinics (CBOC), where the nearest officer is often1717miles away. With the shortage--with the staffing shortage at1718the level it is, VA facilities rely on extensive overtime,1719which leads to the denial of annual leave for officers, leading1720to burnout of those that remain.1721    To be honest, morale across VA police is at the lowest it1722has ever been in my 18-year tenure. This is a huge problem. VA1723police officers and new recruits can make a lot more money as a1724new officer in local police departments than the VA. For1725example, in Buffalo, New York, an entry level police officer1726makes $15,000 more a year than a first-year VA police officer.1727Additionally, an entry level police officer in Hampton,1728Virginia, makes $13,500 more a year than a first-year VA police1729officer.1730    Staffing shortages, low retention, and poor morale require1731solutions, not pay cuts. H.R. 8010 is a necessary first step to1732stop the exodus of the VA Police Department. AFGE welcomes the1733opportunity to work with the committee on other bills that will1734support VA police officers. These include increased hiring,1735addressing higher wages, and granting VA police officers 6(c)1736benefits. I want to thank Chairwoman Kiggans and Representative1737Kennedy for cosponsoring H.R. 3226, the Law Enforcement1738Officers (LEO) Equity Act, to achieve that goal.1739    I thank you and I am looking forward to answering any of1740your questions.17411742    [The Prepared Statement Of Dennis Guerrero Appears In The1743Appendix]17441745    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you, Mr. Guerrero. The written statement1746of Mr. Guerrero will be entered into the hearing record.1747    We will now proceed to questioning and I recognize myself1748for 5 minutes.1749    Ms. Madni, how would you cite neutral payment policies like1750in Dr. Miller-Meeks' bill? How would they affect the1751government's financial state and maintain care standards?1752    Ms. Madni. They would absolutely--site neutral policies1753like those in the bill in question today would reduce1754government payments not only in terms of reimbursement rates,1755but it would also have a positive impact on our debt service1756costs, which means that we would have to pay less interest over1757time. You have sort of a dual improvement on our physical1758health. At the same time, you are ensuring that out-of-pocket1759costs for patients are reduced and ensuring that the care1760provided to patients is not going to hinge on where they1761receive that treatment or whether or not the VA is reimbursing1762at an unreasonable rate.1763    Ms. Kiggans. Great. Thank you. Ms. Madni, from your1764experience with budgetary policy, can you discuss the benefit1765of the VA Fiscal Management Modernization Act and the creation1766of an office to prioritize congressional requests about the1767VA's budget?1768    Ms. Madni. Absolutely. I will just speak to the fact that1769there are not a ton of available data points that we had today1770going into this hearing. The VA failed to provide necessary1771information to the Congressional Budget Office in time to be1772able to produce the scores necessary, the cost estimates1773necessary. That alone is an impediment to this committee's1774ability to do its work. It is an impediment to the entire1775House's ability to do its work. There is no reason that the1776Congressional Budget Office should not be able to get data from1777the VA, just like it is able to secure that data from every1778other department.1779    Having a chief financial officer, having a restructured1780OCLA should absolutely improve not only this committee's1781ability to do its job, but your ability to move forward with1782important legislation that helps veterans onto the House floor1783and through the Senate.1784    Ms. Kiggans. Great. Thank you.1785    Mr. Avila, from your perspective, what are the main1786differences between a certified sterile processing technician1787and an uncertified sterile processing technician?1788    Mr. Avila. Thank you for the question. The differences that1789I have seen in the 25 years of my experience is that a1790certified technician has complete competency over workspace1791temperatures that are required for sterilization. They know1792cleaning protocols. They also address chemical safety and1793handling, blood-borne pathogens, microbiology, and know the1794true safety of proper transportation of soiled goods. In1795addition, there have been validated knowledge on regulatory1796alignment and care and safety protocols. Then also provide a1797professional credibility versus the noncertified.1798    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you. Right now, less than half of the VA1799sterile processing technicians are certified. What risk does1800that pose to veterans receiving their care at the VA?1801    Mr. Avila. Yes. Having uncertified technicians in the VA1802poses, similar to what I previously reported, the risk of VAs1803having their surgical procedures either delayed or canceled,1804or, as I previously reported that occurred in Georgia, 4,5001805veterans being exposed to HIV and hepatitis.1806    Ms. Kiggans. All right. Thank you very much.1807    The chair now recognizes Mr. Kennedy for 5 minutes.1808    Mr. Kennedy. Thank you very much. Mr. Guerrero, thank you1809so much for traveling all the way here from San Antonio, Texas,1810especially during a time of immense loss within your family. We1811are very sorry for your loss.1812    I am hoping you could walk us through what you are seeing1813on the ground regarding these downgrades. What are you hearing1814from fellow VA police officers about the proposed changes and1815what has it done to morale?1816    Mr. Guerrero. Thank you for your question. Thank you for1817condolences.1818    What I am hearing on the ground from my fellow officers,1819you have heard the old saying, rats flee a sinking ship. That1820is we are having right now with VA police and the potential1821downgrade of our levels.1822    In San Antonio, we have had four officers leave VA police1823to become ICE officers because of the pay. In the past year, we1824have had 120 officers leave the VA, either retirement or1825finding--or they found other jobs that pay better than what the1826VA does. These jobs, these positions that have been vacated by1827these officers that have left, we cannot--the VA police cannot1828fill them because there is a hold on hiring these. We cannot1829fill these vacancies. Therefore, it is downgrade--it is not1830downgraded, but we have less officers to perform the duties1831that we are required to do to provide the security for the1832veterans and the family members and VA police--and employees at1833the VA.1834    The morale has in the last--like I stated my statement, in1835the 18 years I have been a VA police officer, morale is at the1836lowest level it is right now.1837    Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Guerrero, if someone today wanted to be a1838VA police officer and applied at your facility in San Antonio,1839what would their starting salary be say at the GS-5 level1840compared to a San Antonio sheriff or Texas State Police?1841    Mr. Guerrero. A VA police officer, GS-5, Step 1, their1842starting pay is $41,334. The San Antonio police officer, a1843cadet, starting pay is $56,000. A Bexar County officer,1844starting pay is $61,500, significantly higher than our VA1845police officers. There is a big pay gap from our VA police1846officers and our civil counterparts.1847    Mr. Kennedy. If VA cannot compete with starting pay and1848those other law enforcement agencies, why would qualified1849applicants choose the VA police, and especially when staffing1850shortages are leading to slower response times in a hospital?1851    Mr. Guerrero. A lot of my fellow officers that I work with1852now, they are on hold right now because they are telling me,1853hey, Sarge, I do not want to leave the VA. I like what I do1854here. I am a fellow veteran. As myself, I decided to be a VA1855police officer to pay forward, to provide security for my1856fellow veterans that are at Audie L. Murphy. I get my care1857there myself. Me, it is a sense of pride for me to become a VA1858police officer instead of going to a civilian law enforcement1859agency where I am just out in the streets dealing with1860everybody. Here I deal with my fellow veterans.1861    It is not only a sense of pride to me, but it gives me the1862ability to talk to the veterans and communicate with them,1863especially when they are in times of crisis. For example, there1864was a veteran. Unfortunately, he has passed already. He called1865the VA police desk and talked to my dispatcher, says, I want to1866kill myself. She gave me the phone. I knew who the veteran was1867because I dealt with him in the past because of his mental1868issues. I talked to the veteran. I says, where do you live? Ah,1869Sarge, I am not going to tell you because you are going to call1870the police to have them bring me in. I says, no, I just want to1871make sure you are okay.1872    I told my dispatcher, says, look him up. She called San1873Antonio Police Department. They said he is Bexar County1874jurisdiction. I told her call Bexar County, give them the1875address. While I was talking to the veteran on the phone, Bexar1876County showed up. He goes, oh, Sarge. I says, Mike, I need you1877here. I need you to get better for us. They brought him in, we1878talked, and he was okay.1879    That is why I do it, because I am a veteran myself.1880    Mr. Kennedy. Thank you very much. Thank you for your1881service as well. You have made it abundantly clear our VA1882police officers need to be paid----1883    Mr. Guerrero. Yes.1884    Mr. Kennedy [continuing]. the way they deserve and earn1885each and every day, especially standing up and being there and1886providing safety for our veterans and healthcare providers in1887those facilities. That is why it is so important that we are1888not downgrading those police officers in any capacity and we1889pass my bill.1890    I yield back.1891    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you.1892    I would like to ask unanimous consent that a non-1893subcommittee member from the majority be allowed to take the1894chair. Hearing no dissent, we will move on to the chair will1895recognize Mr. Bergman for 5 minutes.1896    Mr. Bergman. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Thank you all for1897being here. Great to see some friendly faces.1898    Mr. Lyle, we will get right into it. Okay?1899    Mr. Lyle. Yes, sir.1900    Mr. Bergman. It is about financial accountability and1901setting up a system that actually we can see what works. In1902light of the budget shortfalls that prompted enactment of the1903VA Budget Shortfall Accountability Act earlier this year, do1904you believe that VA currently has a sufficiently clear and1905accountable financial chain of command?1906    Mr. Lyle. Well, thank you for the question, Congressman. I1907think as you alluded to and in previous Congresses, with the VA1908having to come to Congress and ask for supplemental1909appropriations when there is shortfalls and then carrying over1910$5 billion, I think it is fairly clear that they do not have1911sufficient reporting structures and accountability,1912particularly in this area. I think this bill is a positive step1913in the right direction in establishing those lanes of1914accountability.1915    I would like to work with you to identify the specific1916reporting structures and how that looks from facility to1917facility to the chief financial officer. I think this bill is a1918great step in that direction.1919    Mr. Bergman. Thank you. Is additional statutory1920clarification needed to ensure one official is unmistakably1921responsible for budget formulation, execution, and financial1922control so there is none of this, it is not the other person?1923    Mr. Lyle. Yes, sir. I believe so.1924    Mr. Bergman. Okay. Mr. Lyle, how would you--how would1925strengthening financial oversight--excuse me. Guess it is1926almost Miller time. How would strengthening financial oversight1927under the VA Fiscal Management and Modernization Act help1928ensure resources are being used effectively to support1929veterans' services?1930    Mr. Lyle. Well, I think ensuring that there is proper1931fiscal management and the authority for Congress to have1932specific points of accountability obviously does a lot of1933things, but I think the most important thing is it increases1934trust in the VA from the veterans that it serves to ensure that1935veterans know that the--and taxpayers, frankly, know that the1936money that is being used to serve veterans is being used1937efficiently and effectively.1938    Mr. Bergman. I think what I heard you say, and if you1939disagree with this, I think what I heard you say, that clearer1940financial accountability at the VA will lead to more consistent1941and better services for veterans if we get the structure right.1942    Mr. Lyle. Yes, sir.1943    Mr. Bergman. Clarity. Okay. Ms. Madni.1944    Ms. Madni. General.1945    Mr. Bergman. The VA Fiscal Management Modernization Act1946requires certain employees with financial authority to report1947exclusively to the CFO and prohibits them from also performing1948programmatic or operational functions. From your perspective,1949how much of the VA's past budgeting trouble has been driven by1950blurred lines, not the song, blurred lines or confusing solid1951lines with dotted lines, with dashed lines, with no lines, and1952all of that, how has that hindered the financial oversight and1953program management?1954    Ms. Madni. It has been a massive hindrance. I would just1955point you back to the data.1956    Let me take a step back. It is not just about who is1957responsible for what? It is not just is this a policy decision1958or a financial decision? It is also a question of how these1959things compound over time.1960    I ran some numbers for you. The global war on terror1961started in the final weeks of Fiscal Year 2001. Just 25 years1962later, in this fiscal year, outlays are projected to be 8671963percent higher, 867 percent higher, than when we embarked in1964our activities in 2001. The deployment height of the Iraq War1965during 2007 to the 2008 surge explains why veteran outlay1966increases in the subsequent 4 years increased, particularly as1967soldiers returned home after 4-year contracts, and following1968the end of the stop-loss program in 2010. It makes sense why1969you would see certain spikes along this outlay path.1970    What does not make sense is that when you start getting1971into 2022, suddenly the spike jumps at an unreasonable rate.1972You see that growth line just shoot straight into the air. That1973is happening even as the veterans population declines.1974    Mr. Bergman. We could, obviously, we could--thank you for1975the detail because it is that kind of detail that is going to1976enable us all to get a better view of what is, again, the lines1977of command, if you will, the chain of command and the1978responsibility and the accountability.1979    With that, Madam Chair, thank you and I yield back.1980    Ms. King-Hinds. [Presiding.] I now recognize Ranking Member1981Ramirez.1982    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Chair. I want to get into the1983questions, but first I want to thank the four of you for coming1984to testify in our committee and for all the ways that you show1985up for our veterans. For those of you that are, in fact,1986veterans, thank you for your service. I want to start with Mr.1987Guerrero.1988    First, Mr. Guerrero, you heard from my colleague1989Congressman Kennedy, but I also want to be the one to ask you1990to accept my condolences on the recent loss of your father.1991    I want to ask you about my bill, the VA Employee Care1992Expansion Act, and Congresswoman Bynum's bill, the Supporting1993VA Families Act. In your opinion and with your own personal1994experience, why do you think it is so important that VA1995employees be given the flexibility to take leave for care for1996their in-laws or for a new child? Is it important for1997recruitment and retention?1998    Mr. Guerrero. Thank you for your question. Yes, it is1999important for recruitment and retention. As the VA testified2000earlier, if the employee wants to take care of their parent,2001they can use sick leave. If they do not have enough sick leave,2002they can use annual leave. Annual leave is based on workload2003and staffing. Regardless if it is I am sick or if I had to go2004home and take care of my dad.2005    FMLA gives us the opportunity to use annual leave, sick2006leave, or leave without pay with no question. We cannot be2007denied on those three categories for FMLA. If my dad was my2008father-in-law and not being able to take FMLA, it had been2009devastating for me and my wife. If my wife was unable to take2010care of her father because of a physical condition or2011something, or she had to go to work and somebody had to be2012there to take care of him, I would not be able to do it because2013FMLA does not cover in-laws.2014    It is important that we get this added to the FMLA for2015myself or anybody else that has an in-law that needs to be2016taken care of by a VA employee, to assist the wife, to assist2017the family. It is important.2018    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Sergeant Guerrero. I really2019appreciate you really getting into the detail of the challenges2020and impacts, which as you have probably heard me ask Mr. Waye2021earlier about. Thank you.2022    I want to turn now to Mr. Lyle. Mr. Lyle, I was happy to2023see your support from my colleague, the ranking member of2024Technology Modernization Subcommittee, Rep. Budzinski's VA DATA2025Act. Her bill, as we know, would bar third-party organizations2026from taking veteran data, even if it is deidentified outside2027the Federal enclave, and using it to create tools that do not2028serve the VA. What are you hearing from your members on the2029importance of data--on data privacy, especially as the VA moves2030to work more with external parties to modernize the2031Department's offerings?2032    Mr. Lyle. Well, thank you for the question, Ranking Member.2033I think veterans across the country are rightfully concerned2034about how their data is used. My written testimony contains2035kind of a longer explanation of this. There have been instances2036of identity theft, fraud in the veteran community as a result2037of data leaks in the public sector and the private sector when2038it relates to veteran healthcare data. I think one of the main2039concerns, as technology so rapidly advances, is that government2040protections are not keeping pace with that technological2041advancement.2042    You know, the VA has said that a lot of these protections2043are currently in place in contracts. I have not seen the2044specifics of those contracts. I think this is an important step2045to ensure that those protections, in fact, exist.2046    Ms. Ramirez. That is right. Thank you, Mr. Lyle.2047    My last question is for Mr. Avila. Current VA regulations2048already require medical supply techs in the sterile processing2049field to have adequate education and experience to be able to2050complete their job duties. On top of this, the VA also offers2051its own internal VA-specific certifications for these2052technicians. What more do you think your certification provides2053beyond what is already offered within VA? Let me ask you a2054follow-up question, you can answer both. How many hospitals2055external to the VA require certification of this nature?2056    Mr. Avila. Yes. Thank you, Ranking Member Ramirez. When2057talking about the certification, it is based in the VA. I have2058no historical knowledge of when that exam was last updated. As2059within my testimony, I mentioned that surgical instrumentation2060is constantly evolving and so similar to the pieces of2061equipment and instruments that we take care of on a regular2062basis, so should the exams.2063    What I can say is that outside my third-party2064accreditation, you know, those exams are revamped every 52065years. It is done by a subcommittee and they are looked at on a2066different and varying basis, always keeping up with the latest2067standard.2068    Then you mentioned, also--I am sorry, can you repeat the2069second question?2070    Ms. Ramirez. We are out of time. Just for the record, and2071we can talk later, was how many hospitals external to the VA2072require a certification of this nature? We can talk off record2073and I can get that.2074    Mr. Avila. Thank you.2075    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you. Chair, I yield back.2076    Ms. King-Hinds. Thank you. Thank you to all of our2077witnesses for attending this hearing and providing testimony to2078prove several of these bills and for being incredibly gracious2079with their time.2080    As the committee has previously stated, the work in the2081subcommittee relies on hearings like today to advance proposals2082that will make the VA work better for veterans and, ultimately,2083deliver high-quality care without wasting taxpayer dollars to2084fraud and abuse. I want to also say thank you to our colleagues2085on the Technology and Modernization Subcommittee for their work2086to improve the VA's digital infrastructure.2087    Finally, thank you to the members who waived on for this2088legislative hearing to speak about their bills and the2089importance of getting things right for veterans. We look2090forward to further discussions on how we may continue to2091improve the proposals that we received testimony today.2092    With that, I yield to the Ranking Member Ramirez for her2093closing statement.2094    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Chair. Well, I want to thank all of2095the witnesses that came before us today. I know it was a very2096long committee hearing, but it is important work and I look2097forward to continuing to work with all of you to always center2098our veterans in everything we do.2099    In closing, I want to also note my own disappointment in2100the answers from the VA today related to basic worker rights.2101The VA is openly defying a court order to reinstate and abide2102by its collective bargaining agreement with AFGE. Secretary2103Collins is disrespecting the court and he is also disrespecting2104his employees. I want to make sure that I put on the record2105that I am going to continue to work as a ranking member of the2106subcommittee to hold him accountable and to ensure that he is,2107in fact, respecting court orders, not just stating or sending a2108note that says that he has seen what the judge has, in fact,2109ruled. We want to be able to see the implementation to that2110court order, and it is the responsibility of this Congress to2111ensure it happens.2112    Thank you, again, everyone here, and I look forward to our2113next subcommittee.2114    With that, Chair, I yield back.2115    Ms. King-Hinds. Thank you again to our witnesses for being2116here. Sergeant Guerrero, safe travels back home. To all of you,2117be safe out there.2118    At this time I ask unanimous consent that all members shall2119have 5 legislative days in which to revise and extend their2120remarks and include any extraneous materials. Hearing no2121objection, so order.2122    The hearing is now adjourned.2123    [Whereupon, at 4:58 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]21242125?21262127=======================================================================21282129                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X21302131=======================================================================21322133                    Prepared Statements of Witnesses21342135                              ----------21362137                  Prepared Statement of Ilse Wiechers2138[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]21392140                    Prepared Statement of Cole Lyle2141[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]21422143                   Prepared Statement of Joseph Avila2144[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]21452146                  Prepared Statement of Brittany Madni2147[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]21482149                 Prepared Statement of Dennis Guerrero21502151    Chairwoman Kiggans, Ranking Member Ramirez, and Members of the2152Subcommittee:21532154    Thank you for inviting the American Federation of Government2155Employees (AFGE) to participate in today's Subcommittee Hearing on2156``Pending Legislation.'' My name is Dennis ``Sarge'' Guerrero, and I2157serve as the Vice-President of AFGE Local 3511 at the Audie L. Murphy2158Memorial Veterans' Hospital in San Antonio, TX. I am a 20-year U.S. Air2159Force Security Forces Combat Veteran who proudly served our country2160during Operation Desert Shield, Operation Desert Storm, Operation2161Desert Fox, and in Albania providing security for Kosovo refugee camps.2162For the past 18 years, I have continued to serve our Nation and my2163fellow veterans as a VA police officer having attained the rank of2164sergeant.2165    On behalf of AFGE and its National Veterans Affairs Council (NVAC),2166representing over 800,000 Federal and District of Columbia government2167employees, 325,000 of whom are proud, dedicated Department of Veterans2168Affairs (VA) employees, it is a privilege to testify today.2169Specifically, I plan to focus my testimony on legislation affecting the2170VA workforce, including thousands of VA police officers serving across2171the Nation.21722173H.R. 8010, the ``VA Police Recruitment and Retention Act''21742175    AFGE and the NVAC strongly support H.R. 8010, the ``VA Police2176Recruitment and Retention Act'' introduced by Rep. Kennedy (D-NY). If2177enacted, this legislation would prohibit the Office of Personnel2178Management (OPM) and the VA from downgrading the positions of VA police2179officers, retroactive to October 1, 2025.2180    OPM's actions to downgrade the positions of police officers, which2181is the bureaucratic way of saying pay cuts, is counter the VA's mission2182``[t]o fulfill President Lincoln's promise to care for those who have2183served in our Nation's military and for their families, caregivers, and2184survivors.''2185    VA police officers have a critical and unique role in protecting2186the safety of veterans, their families, and VA employees every day. As2187AFGE has highlighted to this committee during previous hearings, VA2188police officers receive training at the Law Enforcement Training Center2189and additional specialized and tailored training in crisis intervention2190to help prevent veterans from harming themselves or others. Moreover,2191as 90 percent of officers are veterans themselves, these officers can2192tap into their own experience when both communicating with and policing2193veterans, building relationships with the veterans they serve, and2194understanding the nuances of the physical facilities where they police.2195As a fellow VA officer from the Great Lakes Region recently articulated2196to me:21972198        ``VA medical centers are complex environments that present2199        unique law enforcement challenges. Officers respond to violent2200        incidents, mental health crises, domestic disputes, narcotics2201        activity, and threats against staff and patients.''22022203    This unfortunately happens across the country. Officers frequently2204interact with veterans armed with guns and knives or under the2205influence of drugs or alcohol.2206    This was tragically put in stark relief this month, after a VA2207social worker Nicholas Crews was murdered at a VA clinic in Jasper,2208Georgia, demonstrating not only the bravery and dedication required of2209VA police officers as well as the broad scope of their2210responsibilities.2211    The plan to downgrade VA police officer positions in the 00832212series is even more dire when considered in conjunction with the2213significant staffing shortage facing the VA Police Force. A VA OIG2214report entitled ``OIG Determination of Veterans Health Administration's2215Severe Occupational Staffing Shortages Fiscal Year 2023'' \1\ noted2216that 73 facilities had a severe shortage of VA Police in the 00832217series, with more common shortages found for only seven positions.\2\2218An updated 2024 version of the report noted that VA police shortages2219``were reported by at least 20 percent of facilities since Fiscal Year22202018.'' \3\ This has further worsened in the current Fiscal Year 20252221report, as the VA OIG states:2222---------------------------------------------------------------------------2223    \1\ ``OIG Determination of Veterans Health Administration's Severe2224Occupational Staffing Shortages Fiscal Year 2023,'' August 22, 2023. VA2225OIG 23-00659-186.2226    \2\ Id at 8.2227    \3\ ``OIG Determination of Veterans Health Administration's Severe2228Occupational Staffing Shortages Fiscal Year 2024,'' August 7, 2024. VA2229OIG 24-00803-22 at 10.22302231        ``In Fiscal Year 2025, the OIG found that 58 percent of2232        facilities (80 of 139) designated Police as a severe2233        occupational staffing shortage, making it the most frequently2234        reported nonclinical shortage occupation and most frequently2235        reported of all occupations. The Police occupation was among2236        the top five most frequently reported nonclinical shortages in2237        each year since 2019, when VHA first made official designations2238        for clinical and nonclinical occupations, and the seventh most2239        frequently reported shortage among all occupations in 2018.''2240        \4\2241---------------------------------------------------------------------------2242    \4\ ``OIG Determination of Veterans Health Administration's Severe2243Occupational Staffing Shortages Fiscal Year 2025,'' August 12, 2025. VA2244OIG 25-01135-196 at 9.22452246    On the ground in VA facilities, the shortages referenced by OIG2247also hinder the ability of officers to perform their duties. In some2248facilities, expensive new security screening equipment sits unused as2249there are not enough officers to operate this equipment. There are2250other facilities where only one or two officers are available to2251respond to emergencies. In some cases, short staffing in 1A facilities2252limits response to one emergency at a time. The staffing problem is2253also acute for Community Based Outpatient Clinics (CBOCs) where the2254nearest officer is often miles away.2255    Short staffing and inadequate pay harms officer morale. One officer2256recently told me, ``[m]orale across VA is low. [D]owngrading people2257only pushes more people to leave.'' Additionally, with the staff2258shortage at the level it is, VA facilities must further rely on2259extensive use of overtime, which often leads to the denial of annual2260leave for officers, leading to further burnout of the officers that2261remain.2262    This is particularly problematic when VA police officers have other2263opportunities to serve in other Federal agencies or in State, county,2264or local police forces that pay starting salaries significantly higher2265compared the planned downgraded GS-5 salary. For example, in Buffalo,2266NY, a GS-5 Step One makes $42,597 annually,\5\ while an entry level2267City Police Officer (Step 1) earns $57,453.\6\ Similarly, a GS-5 Step2268one makes $41,341 in the Virginia Beach Region,\7\ while a Police2269Recruit at the lowest level of the pay scale makes $54,863 in the city2270of Hampton, Virginia.\8\ Severe staffing shortages, low retention, and2271poor morale require attention and solutions, not downgrades in2272positions and pay.2273---------------------------------------------------------------------------2274    \5\ See GS Salary Table 2026-BU. https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-2275oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/26Tables/html/BU.aspx2276    \6\ See city of Buffalo, ``Department of Police Recent Salary2277Figure Fiscal Year 2026'' at 176 (10 of 23 on linked PDF) https://2278www.buffalony.gov/ImageRepository/Document?documentId=145252279    \7\ See GS Salary Table 2026-VB. https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-2280oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/pdf/2026/VB.pdf2281    \8\ See City of Hampton Virginia Police Department Step Plan2282Effective January 10, 2026. https://www.hampton.gov/DocumentCenter/2283View/48497/Police-Division-Step-Plan-PDF2284---------------------------------------------------------------------------2285    The VA should do everything in its power to recruit and retain its2286police force. While AFGE is pleased that the planned downgrades have2287been ``paused,'' AFGE still fully supports H.R. 8010, the ``VA Police2288Recruitment and Retention Act,'' as it is a necessary first step to2289stem the tide of departures from the VA Police Department. AFGE2290strongly encourages the swift passage of H.R. 8010 to prevent any2291future downgrades from OPM and looks forward to working with the2292committee to pass this bill. AFGE welcomes the opportunity to work with2293the committee on other legislation that would support the VA Police2294force, including increased hiring, addressing higher wages, and2295granting VA Police Officers Federal Law Enforcement Officer2296retirements, commonly referred to as ``6(c) benefits,'' and thanks2297Chairwoman Kiggans and Representative Kennedy for co-sponsoring H.R.22983226, the ``Law Enforcement Officers Equity Act'' to achieve that goal.22992300H.R. 7948, the ``VA Employee Family Care Expansion Act''23012302    AFGE supports H.R. 7498, the ``VA Employee Family Care Expansion2303Act'' introduced by Ranking Member Ramirez (D-IL). If enacted, this2304bill would codify the ability for a VA employee to utilize the Family2305Medical Leave Act (FMLA) to care for the parent of a spouse. AFGE and2306the NVAC had previously negotiated this right into its Master2307Collective Bargaining Agreement, which is currently the subject of2308litigation.2309    While no VA employee would ever wish to be in the position to use2310FMLA to care for someone, it is unfortunately something that many of2311us, including myself, have had to do. Sadly, this month, my father of2312blessed memory passed away, and I used FMLA to take care of him and be2313with him in his final days. Having the ability to use this leave was a2314relief to me and my family and didn't force me to make a choice between2315being a son and being a VA police officer serving my fellow veterans.2316Had it not been my father, but one of my in-laws in this situation, not2317being able to use this leave would have been devastating and forced a2318cruel choice for me and my family.2319    Passing this legislation and restoring this right to VA employees2320is a commonsense policy that would allow VA employees to better serve2321our Nation's veterans and improve recruitment and retention. AFGE urges2322its swift passage.23232324Draft legislation to establish an entitlement to a supplemental period2325of unpaid parental leave for employees of the Department of Veterans2326Affairs23272328    AFGE supports the draft legislation being considered by this2329subcommittee to establish entitlement to a supplemental period of2330unpaid parental leave for employees of the Department of Veterans2331Affairs. If enacted, this bill would codify a VA employee's right to2332four additional weeks of Leave Without Pay (LWOP) for the purposes of2333parental leave following the birth or adoption of a child. AFGE and the2334NVAC had previously negotiated this right into its Master Collective2335Bargaining Agreement, which is currently the subject of litigation.2336    Passing this legislation and restoring this right to VA employees2337is a commonsense policy that would allow the dedicated workers who take2338care of our Nation's veterans, many of whom are veterans themselves,2339the ability to stay home with a new child, if they choose, for an extra2340month with no pay. Enacting this policy will help VA stay competitive2341with other employers who offer similar or more generous options and2342improve recruitment and retention. AFGE urges its swift passage.23432344Draft legislation to establish a professional certification requirement2345for certain sterile processing technicians of the Veterans Health2346Administration23472348    Chairwoman Kiggans' draft legislation would amend Title 38 to2349prospectively require that sterile processing technicians attain a2350certification from an accredited institution prior to working at the VA2351and gives incumbent sterile processing technicians up to 2 years to2352earn this certification. The bill also does not apply to positions the2353Secretary of Veterans Affairs considers as entry level.2354    AFGE appreciates Chairwoman Kiggans' intent in improving the2355training of Sterile Processing Technicians at the VA. However, the2356current version of the bill raises several questions that require2357clarification before AFGE can take a position on this legislation.2358    First, the bill neither defines which certification is required,2359nor which institutions are accredited. Further, it does not consider2360whether the VA can offer this certification in-house instead of relying2361on private companies. Currently, these technicians take an internal2362certification course called the VA Certified Registered Medical Supply2363Technician (VA-CRMST). Technicians must finish the certification within2364their first year at the VA and complete 400 hours of work prior to2365testing. Additionally, there are 12 hours of continuing education2366requirements for these employees. VA has standardized the VA-CRMST for2367VA technicians and allows it to be completed during the workday with no2368individual expense for VA employees. What is the extra benefit to VA2369and its employees to further require, for example, the Certified2370Registered Central Sterile Technician (CRCST) certification, recognized2371by the Healthcare Sterile Processing Association?2372    Second, what is the uniformity of the programs recognized by the2373Healthcare Sterile Processing Association? Do all these companies and2374their programs cover the same material, or is there variation in the2375programs and curriculum? Further, are any of those programs currently2376tailored for employees at the VA, as the VA's VA-CRMST program is?2377    Third, who will bear the cost of attaining the CRCST certification?2378Asking incumbent technicians who are between GS-3 and GS-6, making a2379starting salary of $36,745 to $51,442 in Washington, DC to pay for a2380certification costing thousands of dollars is cost prohibitive,2381especially when it can be done in-house. Moreover, while new employees2382would be required to have this certification prior to employment, the2383burden placed on current employees and earning this certification after2384hours is significant and may hurt with retention of these employees.2385    AFGE looks forward to learning more about this bill as it is2386considered by the subcommittee.23872388Draft legislation to authorize the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to2389recoup awards, bonuses, and relocation expenses paid to former2390employees of the Department of Veterans Affairs under certain2391conditions23922393    Rep. Self's draft legislation would allow the Secretary of Veterans2394Affairs to recoup bonuses and relocation expenses of former employees2395of the VA. AFGE opposes this legislation as it is an extension of the2396powers granted to the Secretary under the Department of Veterans2397Affairs Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act of 20172398(Accountability Act). The VA has abused the powers of the2399Accountability Act since its inception almost 9 years ago. In turn,2400AFGE has justifiable concerns as to how the bill would be implemented.2401Granting this power to claw back money from former employees since the2402law was enacted on June 23, 2017, poses problems for former employees2403who, after potentially almost a decade, do not have the ability to2404rebut the VA's claims. AFGE urges the subcommittee not to advance this2405bill.2406    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today and present AFGE's2407views on these bills. I look forward to answering your questions.24082409                       Statements for the Record24102411                              ----------24122413      Prepared Statement of U.S. Government Accountability Office2414[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]24152416      Prepared Statement of National Alliance to End Homelessness2417[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]24182419Prepared Statement of National Homelessness Law Center, National Health2420  Care for the Homeless Council, National Health Law Program, Funders2421Together for Housing Justice, and Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law2422[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]24232424     Prepared Statement of National Coalition for Homeless Veterans2425[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]24262427 Prepared Statement of Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America (IAVA)2428               and American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU)2429[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]24302431         Prepared Statement of Center for Procurement Advocacy2432[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]24332434                               [all]