“Privacy Protections & the Second Amendment: Examining ATF’s Relationship to the Tiahrt Amendment”

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                   PRIVACY PROTECTIONS AND THE SECOND5                       AMENDMENT: EXAMINING ATF'S6                  RELATIONSHIP TO THE TIAHRT AMENDMENT7=======================================================================89                                HEARING1011                               BEFORE THE1213                        SUBCOMMITTEE ON FEDERAL LAW14                               ENFORCEMENT1516                                OF THE1718              COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM1920                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES2122                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2324                             SECOND SESSION2526                               __________2728                              MAY 14, 20262930                               __________3132                           Serial No. 119-633334                               __________3536Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform3738[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3940    Available on: govinfo.gov, oversight.house.gov or docs.house.gov4142                               _________4344                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE4563-746 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 202646=======================================================================4748              COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM4950                    JAMES COMER, Kentucky, Chairman5152Jim Jordan, Ohio                     Robert Garcia, California, Ranking53Mike Turner, Ohio                        Minority Member54Paul Gosar, Arizona                  Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of55Virginia Foxx, North Carolina            Columbia56Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin            Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts57Michael Cloud, Texas                 Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois58Gary Palmer, Alabama                 Ro Khanna, California59Clay Higgins, Louisiana              Kweisi Mfume, Maryland60Pete Sessions, Texas                 Shontel Brown, Ohio61Andy Biggs, Arizona                  Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico62Nancy Mace, South Carolina           Maxwell Frost, Florida63Pat Fallon, Texas                    Summer Lee, Pennsylvania64Byron Donalds, Florida               Greg Casar, Texas65Scott Perry, Pennsylvania            Jasmine Crockett, Texas66William Timmons, South Carolina      Emily Randall, Washington67Tim Burchett, Tennessee              Suhas Subramanyam, Virginia68Lauren Boebert, Colorado             Yassamin Ansari, Arizona69Anna Paulina Luna, Florida           Wesley Bell, Missouri70Nick Langworthy, New York            Lateefah Simon, California71Eric Burlison, Missouri              Dave Min, California72Elijah Crane, Arizona                Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts73Brian Jack, Georgia                  Rashida Tlaib, Michigan74John McGuire, Virginia75Brandon Gill, Texas76Richard McCormick, Georgia7778                                 ------7980                       Mark Marin, Staff Director81                   James Rust, Deputy Staff Director82                     Ryan Giachetti, Chief Counsel83                          Alex Rankin, Counsel84                 Emily Allen Professional Staff Member85         Mallory Cogar, Director of Operations and Chief Clerk8687                      Contact Number: 202-225-50748889                Robert Edmonson, Minority Staff Director90                      Contact Number: 202-225-505191                                 ------9293                Subcommittee on Federal Law Enforcement9495                   Clay Higgins, Louisiana, Chairman9697Paul Gosar, Arizona                  Summer Lee, Pennsylvania, Ranking98Andy Biggs, Arizona                      Member99Nancy Mace, South Carolina           Yassamin Ansari, Arizona100Scott Perry, Pennsylvania            Wesley Bell, Missouri101Lauren Boebert, Colorado             Lateefah Simon, California102Brian Jack, Georgia                  Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts103104                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S105106                              ----------107108                           OPENING STATEMENTS109110                                                                   Page111112Hon. Clay Higgins, U.S. Representative, Chairman.................     1113114Hon. Summer Lee, U.S. Representative, Ranking Member.............     3115116                                WITNESS117118The Honorable Robert Cekada, Director, Bureau of Alcohol,119  Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives120Oral Statement...................................................     5121122Written opening statements and bios are available on the U.S.123  House of Representatives Document Repository at:124  docs.house.gov.125126                           INDEX OF DOCUMENTS127128  * Article, CNN, ``Gun Crime Cases Fall As Agents Shift to129  Immigration Crackdown''; submitted by Rep. Ansari.130131  * Article, AZ Family, ``Arizonans Sheltering In Place After132  Cartel Violence''; submitted by Rep. Biggs.133134  * Article, Breitbart, ``AZ Gun Dealer Facing Terrorism Charges135  for Alleged Sales to Cartels''; submitted by Rep. Biggs.136137  * Article, Phoenix New Times, ``AZ Guns are Fueling A Drug138  Cartel War in Mexico''; submitted by Rep. Biggs.139140  * Article, USA Carry, ``Gun Owners of America Battles AFT `Gag141  Order' ''; submitted by Rep. Biggs.142143  * Article, AOL, ``Mexican National Sentenced in Major Middle144  East-Mexico-AZ Smuggling Scheme''; submitted by Rep. Biggs.145146  * Article, Breitbart, ``RPG Launcher Tube, Rifles Hidden in147  Lexus Headed to Mexico''; submitted by Rep. Biggs.148149  * Letter to ATF, dated January 15, 2026; submitted by Rep.150  Burlison.151152  * Letter to ATF, dated February 14, 2025; submitted by Rep.153  Cloud.154155  * Letter from DOJ re Tiahrt, dated February 13, 2026; submitted156  by Rep. Higgins.157158  * Letter to Dep Director Cekada, dated January 28, 2026;159  submitted by Rep. Higgins.160161  * Letter to Dep Director Cekada re follow-up, dated April 6,162  2026; submitted by Rep. Higgins.163164The documents listed above are available at: docs.house.gov.165166                          ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTS167168  * Questions for the Record: Hon. Robert Cekada; submitted by169  Rep. Crane.170171These documents were submitted after the hearing, and may be172  available upon request.173174                   PRIVACY PROTECTIONS AND THE SECOND175                       AMENDMENT: EXAMINING ATF'S176                  RELATIONSHIP TO THE TIAHRT AMENDMENT177178                              ----------179180                         THURSDAY, MAY 14, 2026181182                     U.S. House of Representatives183184              Committee on Oversight and Government Reform185186                Subcommittee on Federal Law Enforcement187188                                                   Washington, D.C.189190    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:01 a.m., in191room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Clay Higgins192[Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.193    Present: Representatives Higgins, Gosar, Biggs, Perry,194Boebert, Jack, Lee, Ansari, Bell, and Pressley.195    Also present: Representatives Cloud, Burlison, Crane,196Clyde, and Frost.197    Mr. Higgins. The Subcommittee on Federal Law Enforcement198will come to order.199    Welcome everyone. We welcome our audience. We ask that you200observe all principles of polite decorum today, but we are201happy to have you here.202    Without objection, the Chair may declare a recess at any203time.204    I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening205statement.206207           OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN CLAY HIGGINS208209                 REPRESENTATIVE FROM LOUISIANA210211    Today, the Subcommittee on Federal Law Enforcement convenes212to conduct critical oversight of the Agency charged with213executing our Nation's firearms laws: the Bureau of Alcohol,214Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, or ATF. We are honored to be215joined by ATF's newly confirmed Director, Robert Cekada.216Director Cekada has decades of experience and distinguished217service within ATF and law enforcement. Director Cekada's deep218expertise and his respect for the law and constitutional rights219should give us optimism about ATF's future posture toward law-220abiding gun owners and the Second Amendment.221    Strong, principled leadership at ATF is all the more222important now given the Agency's troubling disregard of Second223Amendment rights over the past several years. One prominent224example has been ATF's repeated failure to abide by a Federal225law prohibiting the dissemination of firearms trace data known226popularly as the Tiahrt Amendment. Firearms trace data is227information about the chain of gun ownership and sale beginning228from point of manufacture, maintained by the ATF's National229Tracing Center, or NTC. Part of a 2003 Department of Justice230Appropriations bill, the Tiahrt Amendment precludes ATF from231sharing this data with anyone other than prosecutors or law232enforcement agencies in connection with criminal233investigations. The purpose of this law is clear. Failure to234abide by the Tiahrt Amendment exposes informants, undercover235officers, and lawful Federal firearm licensees, or FFLs, whose236safety could be endangered by revelations in violation of237Tiahrt.238    Despite Tiahrt's obvious importance to police and public239safety, recent history has shown that ATF has sometimes240disregarded the law. Some violations of Tiahrt have seemed241unintentional, associated with accidental data disclosures242while responding to FOIA requests. However, other violations243clearly stem from the political and ideological opposition that244some ATF bureaucrats have for the Tiahrt Law. There are several245glaring recent examples, particularly during the Biden246Administration.247    To begin, the Biden ATF assisted gun control groups in248creating a map of gun shops, including those owned by some249Members of Congress, by providing Tiahrt-protected data as part250of a FOIA request. That is how this map was created. ATF's251release of this data was a clear violation of Federal law and252seemed intended to help anti-Second Amendment groups.253Separately, the Biden ATF inadvertently disseminated Tiahrt-254protected data as part of a FOIA request from the group, Gun255Owners of America, also known as GOA. ATF subsequently secured256a gag order to prevent GOA from sharing the data. GOA,257supported by several First Amendment groups, sued to retain258access to the data by virtue of First Amendment press freedoms.259Dishearteningly, this disregard for the law has not been260limited to the Biden Administration. After the Biden ATF's261inadvertent disclosure of Tiahrt-protected trace data to GOA,262the DOJ under Pam Bondi re-released that same data, possibly263purposefully, to make moot GOA's ongoing litigation against the264ATF gag order. So, rather than protecting the public by265preventing sensitive firearms trace data from falling into the266wrong hands, the ATF has defied both the letter and the spirit267of the law.268    ATF's approach to Tiahrt can serve as a window into the269Agency's successes and failures upholding the Second Amendment270and ensuring protections on sensitive law enforcement data. The271Biden Administration, in particular, took a variety of272troubling actions in this regard. Under President Biden, ATF's273``zero tolerance enforcement policy,'' which threatened to274close firearm businesses over even small, non-material275paperwork and clerical errors, increased reliance on inspection276records and compliance data to revoke firearms licenses. The277Biden Administration ATF used bureaucratic complexities to prey278upon legally operating firearms dealers and license holders.279Furthermore, Biden-era regulatory changes and enforcement280guidance expanded who is considered ``engaged in the business281of dealing firearms,'' potentially implicating unsuspecting,282everyday Americans as federally regulated gun dealers and283subjected them to severe penalties for noncompliance, including284criminal prosecution.285    I have faith that the current Administration will continue286to roll back the Biden ATF's most destructive regulations. A287recently announced batch of ATF proposed rulemakings seem to do288just that, and I encourage that action. However, ATF's improper289treatment of Tiahrt-protected data demonstrates that rigorous,290ongoing congressional oversight of the Agency is necessary291regardless of which party controls the White House. I thank292you, my friend, Director Cekada, for joining us today to293discuss this crucial subject along with other Second Amendment294issues. I look forward to today's hearing.295    I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Subcommittee, Ms.296Summer Lee of Pennsylvania, for the purpose of making in an297opening statement.298299         OPENING STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER SUMMER LEE300301                REPRESENTATIVE FROM PENNSYLVANIA302303    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I also look forward to304and am excited to have a hearing existing. I do have to wonder,305though, what it will take to actually get my Republican306colleagues to take action to prevent gun violence because307Columbine was not enough, and Sandy Hook was not enough, Las308Vegas was not enough, and Parkland was not enough, and Pulse309Nightclub was not enough. Even your President being shot at310multiple different times was not enough.311    Last year, according to a tracker by Everytown, there were31238,368 incidents of gun violence in the United States,313resulting in 13,926 deaths, 21,686 injuries. Gun violence314remains the leading cause of death for children in the United315States of America. Mr. Chair, your home state of Louisiana had316the highest gun violence death rate. Just last month, there was317a mass shooting at a mall in Baton Rouge and another shooting318in Shreveport where eight children were killed, yet this319hearing with the new Director of the Bureau of Alcohol,320Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives is not about reducing gun321violence. It is about privacy protections for gun dealers.322Trump and Republicans have shown again and again that they do323not care about this epidemic of gun violence. After a shooting,324they at most post online thoughts and prayers, and then they go325back to vehemently defending the Second Amendment. Sometimes326they even mock these tragedies by wearing little assault gun327rifle pins.328    Eighteen days after he took office, President Trump signed329an executive order on protecting Second Amendment rights, which330seems to be the only constitutional right that they care about.331Falling in line with this executive order, Director Cekada332recently announced new rules, none of which do anything to333reduce gun violence. Among these proposed changes are a334narrowing of the ``engaged in business rule,'' which generally335ensures that for-profit gun sellers must obtain a Federal336firearms license. He has also moved to deregulate bump stocks337like the one used in a 2017 Las Vegas mass shooting that led to33860 deaths.339    Trump and Republicans are not just making sure gun dealers340and owners remain unregulated and unburdened. He has also341attacked efforts to get to the root causes of gun violence.342Trump closed the Office of Gun Violence Prevention, which343helped hundreds of Americans and countless communities by344offering the first-ever Federal response to mass shootings and345gun violence. It responded to crises when they happened and346connected local governments and municipalities with resources347to help victims and survivors.348    Last year, the DOJ also abruptly terminated about $50--349excuse me--$500 million in Federal grants to more than 200350organizations and local governments working on community safety351and justice issues. One of the things is these organizations do352is work to combat street violence and connect people with353mental health services, and they get results. Studies have354shown that community violence intervention programs reduce355violence in communities and have contributed to lowering356homicide rates. It is why I launched the Community Safety357Caucus to prioritize this work. Real community safety means358making holistic investments in people to root out the systemic359challenges that perpetuate this cycle of harm, yet due to360Trump's policies, many of these organizations doing this361crucial work have had to roll back services or have had to362close entirely.363    So, under this Administration, you cannot regulate guns,364and you cannot have programs that address the violence in other365ways. You cannot say that the money is not there. Surely we can366take some of the $1 billion proposed for the Trump ballroom367bunker and put it toward some of these violence reduction368programs. Republicans want to control what books you read, what369history you learn, how you identify, who you can love, our370bodies. They want to control everything except the very thing371that could prevent deaths of children and students and372worshippers and shoppers in the only country on earth where373this is a problem. It seems that they think those thoughts and374prayers do enough, but that we, one of the most powerful body375in this country, can do no more. I thank you, and I yield back.376    Mr. Higgins. The gentlelady yields.377    Without objection, Representatives Eric Burlison of378Missouri, Michael Cloud of Texas, Andrew Clyde of Georgia, Eli379Crane of Arizona, and Maxwell Frost of Florida are waived on to380the Subcommittee for the purpose of questioning the witness at381today's hearings.382    I am pleased to welcome today's witness. Robert Cekada is383the Director of Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and384Explosives. Confirmed by the Senate on April 29, Director385Cekada brings with him over three decades of law enforcement386and public service experience. Mr. Cekada's law enforcement387career began with the New York City Police Department where he388served from 1992 to 2000. He joined ATF as a special agent in3892005 in the Baltimore Field Division. His successes in a390variety of field assignments led to his promotion to ATF391headquarters, where he has served in multiple senior leadership392positions prior to his appointment as Director. Most recently393he served as Deputy Director beginning in April 2025.394    I personally welcome Director Cekada for being here, and I395would like to note that the gentleman made me a promise a few396months ago that he would appear before this Committee at his397first available day on his calendar after confirmation. He398called me immediately after confirmation, very quickly, and399advised me he intended to honor that promise, and here he sits400today. Thank you for honoring your word, Mr. Cekada.401    Pursuant to Committee Rule 9(g), the witness will please402stand and raise your right hand, sir.403    Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony that you404are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing405but the truth, so help you God?406    Mr. Cekada. I do.407    Mr. Higgins. Let the record show that the witness answered408in the affirmative. Thank you, sir. You may take a seat.409    We appreciate you being here today, and I look forward to410your testimony. We all do. Let me remind the witness that we411have read your written statement, and it will appear in full in412the hearing record. Please limit your oral statement to 5413minutes, sir. As a reminder, please press the button on the414microphone in front of you so that it is on and Members can415hear you. When you begin to speak, the light in front of you416will turn green. After 4 minutes, it will turn yellow. When the417red light comes on, your 5 minutes has expired. We ask you to418please wrap up at that point.419    I now recognize Director Cekada for his opening statement.420421                STATEMENT OF HON. ROBERT CEKADA422423             DIRECTOR, BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO,424425                    FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES426427    Mr. Cekada. Thank you, sir. Good morning, Chairman Higgins,428Ranking Member Lee, and Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you429for the invitation to appear before you to discuss privacy430protections and the Second Amendment.431    ATF is the only Federal law enforcement Agency whose432primary mission is combating violent crime. We arrest violent433criminals, disrupt firearm trafficking networks that arm gangs434and cartels, investigate bombings and arson, and deliver world-435class forensic and intelligence services to state and local436partners, all while protecting the Second Amendment and all437rights of law-abiding Americans. We are a small Federal Agency438with roughly 4,600 employees, but we are mighty, and our439actions speak for themselves.440    Since January 20, 2025, ATF has arrested just over 8,700441criminals and seized nearly 44,000 illegal firearms,442approximately 5,100 of which were being interdicted with the443intention to traffic them to Mexico, just over 2.7 million444rounds of ammunition, and more than 28,300 illegal explosives.445We have also made historic gains in eForm processing. By the446end of May, we will have processed many eForm 1 and 4447applications in 2026 as we did in the entirety of 2023. We have448done all of this while cutting eForm processing times from 47449days to 42 days, and cutting eForm processing times from 230450days in 2023 to just 12 days today.451    Although I know this is not an appropriations hearing, I452would be remiss if I did not point out that ATF's budget has453suffered tremendously in the recent years. Congressional454support for the President's Fiscal Year 2027 budget is,455therefore, paramount to ensuring that ATF can continue to make456gains in all of these areas this Subcommittee cares about,457including tracing, ballistic evidence, and forensic laboratory458examinations involving firearms, arson, and explosives, and459reducing The National Firearms Act (NFA) eForms processing460times. Given the compounded ATF cuts ATF has already absorbed,461anything else would lead to catastrophic results in all of462these efforts.463    The right to keep and bear arms is a constitutional464guarantee, and ATF is committed to protecting and preserving465it. As I said during my confirmation hearing, effective law466enforcement and respect for civil liberties are inseparable467obligations, and that is why ATF has entered a new era of468reform to rebuild trust with the industry, the Federal firearms469licensees, lawful gun owners, and the public while still470prioritizing our efforts on public safety. Some of the specific471actions I have taken include establishing a Senior Industry472Partnership Advisor position to address industry concerns and473foster proactive engagement with the regulated community;474revoking the enhanced regulatory enforcement policy, sometimes475referred to as a zero tolerance policy, and replacing it with a476new policy that emphasizes fairness and transparency while477recognizing that FFLs are often the first line of defense478against gun crime; and I also implemented regulatory reforms479last month where ATF issued 34 notices of final and proposed480rulemaking following the comprehensive review that was481conducted in compliance with the executive order on protecting482the Second Amendment rights. The aim is simple: clearer483regulations that do not compromise public safety. I encourage484all of you and your constituents to submit comments on these485proposed rules. We want to make sure that we get these right.486    ATF complies with all laws enacted by Congress. We do not487have an illegal firearms registry, and we are committed to488upholding the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens489and to protect their privacy, including and especially as it490relates to the Tiahrt Amendment, the Demand Letter 2 Program,491amongst others. Firearms trace data exists to support criminal492investigations, full stop. Any decision to share trace data493with anyone for any reason requires explicit legal494justification to my office for awareness. Under my leadership,495that standard is firmly in place. To the extent that Congress496wishes to strengthen these or any other privacy protections,497ATF and the Department stand ready to work with you.498    Mr. Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee, thank you499again for the opportunity to appear before you today. ATF is a500law enforcement Agency in the truest sense. We enforce the law,501we follow the law, and we protect the rights the law502guarantees. Through crime gun intelligence, forensic analysis,503and relentless investigation, we identify and arrest violent504offenders and gang members, dismantle trafficking networks, and505sever the supply chains arming cartels, prohibited persons, and506terrorist organizations, all while safeguarding lawful commerce507and upholding the Constitution of the United States. Thank you508again, and I look forward to your questions.509    Mr. Higgins. I thank the gentlemen for his opening510statement, and I recognize myself for 5 minutes for511questioning.512    Director Cekada, we are going to try to drill down in 5513minutes here regarding the Tiahrt violations that have been514well documented in modern history, driven for whatever purpose,515accidentally or purposefully, by ATF. And perhaps we can516concur, as you and I have discussed and others from your Agency517have discussed, the root cause of why this is happening, and518what Congress can do, driving more clarified, standalone519legislation that will enforce the understanding of the Tiahrt520policies that have been codified in appropriations riders for521many years. But I think we can have more robust congressional522action to more clearly lead not only your ATF, sir, but the ATF523of generations yet to come.524    So, we are going to talk about this, but with an agreed525purpose that we are going to continue to work together to526address the Tiahrt concern and ultimately fix it between527Article I authorities and Article II concurrence. Is that528correct? Does that sort of summarize our----529    Mr. Cekada. Yes, sir.530    Mr. Higgins. Okay. So, we have established that the Tiahrt531Amendments are fundamentally a law protecting privacy. It is532meant to protect law enforcement officers and the citizenry. Is533that correct?534    Mr. Cekada. That is correct.535    Mr. Higgins. Okay. So, on multiple occasions in recent536years, protected firearms trace data was disseminated in537contravention of the Tiahrt Amendment. This sometimes was done538seemingly inadvertently, and other times it appeared to be539intentional. Do you think ATF has strategically utilized540Freedom of Information Act requests--FOIA requests--and541disclosure as a means of sidestepping Tiahrt?542    Mr. Cekada. Sir, I do not believe that I am aware of any543incident that it was done intentionally. I can tell you that,544for certain, the one incident you mentioned that involved the545Gun Owners of America, that was an inadvertent mistake546attributed to two things, to be frank, nonetheless, a problem547and a big mistake. It was attributed, A, to a lack of staffing548and B, the software that we were using to redact information in549an effort to respond to FOIA. The folks in our FOIA office in550their review process selected the information set to be551redacted, and the system had a clunky way of finalizing those552redactions, and that was never done appropriately. No excuse.553It was wrong. It should not have been released.554    The second release involving that same response did involve555the DOJ, and I will not speak on their behalf, but as far as556what ATF did after that, we did purchase new software----557    Mr. Higgins. Right.558    Mr. Cekada [continuing]. To ensure that we actually do not559have any sort of human error in the future.560    Mr. Higgins. So, you feel confident that, based upon the561existing culture of compliance with Tiahrt and the examples,562that under your leadership, ATF accepts responsibility for and563intends to learn from moving forward. You have been dealing564with Tiahrt as an appropriations rider, unknown if it would be565renewed year by year. It is expected to be renewed, but until566it is done, it is not done. So, for 20 years, that has been the567culture you have had to deal with, and we intend to pass568permanent Tiahrt legislation, standalone legislation. Would569that help, like, within the procedures and policies and570cultures of the ATF to be more solid in compliance with Tiahrt?571    Mr. Cekada. If I may, sir, I think--I can tell you for572certain during my time and under my watch, ATF completely573respects Tiahrt. We will make sure there are no releases. Where574there is a challenge, and I look forward to working with this575Committee to help give Tiahrt the strength it needs to protect576the eTrace data that we use, in particular because that data,577as you stated, is used to protect our communities. Our law578enforcement officers, our undercover operations, we use that579information to identify and target violent criminals for our580criminal investigations. That data is misused at times through581different leadership in the local communities who compel our582state and local partners to turn over that data.583    The only mechanism ATF has to hold them accountable is to584cut a particular law enforcement off of eTrace. That is not a585good solution for us. It is tough for us when that is the only586option because if I cut that law enforcement agency off of587eTrace, I am also, thereby, putting public safety at risk588because that same police department is now not able to conduct589their investigation.590    Mr. Higgins. Well, we want to work with you to stabilize591that process and ATF policies. We are going to deliver you a592more permanent fix there, sir.593    Without objection, I would like unanimous consent to enter594into the record a letter from our office to the ATF dated595January 28 of this year in reference to this topic; another596letter from my office to Director Cekada, Deputy Director at597the time, dated April 6, 2026; and a response from the598Department of Justice to letters that we directed to them on599this topic from just a couple of days ago.600    Without objection, so ordered.601    I now recognize the Ranking Member, Ms. Lee, for her602questioning.603    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to start by604acknowledging the eight children who were shot and killed605recently in the first of two horrific mass shootings in606Louisiana. One of them was only three years old. Children607should not face this kind of violence. They should not have to608learn active shooter drills at schools. They should not have to609worry about any of this. They should be living and playing and610just being kids.611    I represent Western Pennsylvania, which includes612communities that are still healing from the Pittsburgh613Synagogue shooting, the deadliest antisemitic attack in614American history. In my district, gun violence is not abstract.615It is mass shootings, hate-fueled violence, and the daily616community violence that devastates families. One of the few617Agencies tasked with helping reduce gun violence is the Bureau618of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, the ATF. So, I619want to start with debunking some myths about the basic tools620used by ATF central to all of this: gun tracing.621    Director Cekada, could you briefly explain in simple terms622how gun tracing works?623    Mr. Cekada. Sure. First of all, good morning. Thank you for624your question. So, the trace starts from the point of where the625firearm was manufactured, and in most cases, a firearm goes626from the manufacturer to a distributor and from a distributor627to a wholesaler or a retailer. ATF uses that trace data to628identify who the first purchaser was, and in some cases, the629first purchaser could have been just a few days prior. In many630cases, there is a period of time in between, and it varies from631firearm to firearm.632    Basically, what our agents do is, when the trace is633conducted, if it turns out to be in our out-of-business records634at the National Tracing Center, we are able to query to see if635that serial number is in the out-of-business records. If it is636not in the out-of-business records and we have access through637the eTrace system to the manufacturer's systems, we can638identify, okay, which manufacturer was it. We contact them.639They are all very cooperative. They tell us when it was640manufactured, who it went to.641    Ms. Lee. Right.642    Mr. Cekada. And our investigators go out and interview643folks----644    Ms. Lee. Thank you.645    Mr. Cekada [continuing]. To determine where that firearm646first entered the public market.647    Ms. Lee. Yes. Thank you so much for that. So, gun tracing648helps law enforcement figure out trafficking patterns, it helps649to determine how a gun got to the crime scene, and it gives us650viable information to stop the spread of illicit firearms.651Director Cekada, ATF's gun tracing database is not the same as652a searchable national registry of law-abiding gun owners,653correct?654    Mr. Cekada. There is no searchable gun database for655American gun owners.656    Ms. Lee. Thank you. So, because Federal law already657prohibits a national gun registry, these rules are not in place658to villainize gun owners. They are here to keep us safe. I659emphasize this because Republicans have convened this hearing660today around the Tiahrt Amendments, which are a cluster of661riders to spending bills that limit how ATF and the FBI can use662the data they collect to trace and track gun trafficking. These663riders do not even really protect gun owners. They protect the664gun industry.665    Now, Director Cekada, I would also like to ask you about666the 34 rules you recently proposed either deregulating firearm667requirements or streamlining processes to ease the burden on668federally licensed firearm dealers. In announcing these rules,669you were surrounded by representatives of firearm industry670groups. Just yes or no, did you consult with gun industry-671affiliated groups, such as the National Rifle Association672(NRA), Gun Owners of America, the National Shooting Sports673Foundation (NSSF), which is the Firearm Industry Trade674Association, in formulating and drafting the rulemakings?675    Mr. Cekada. No, we did not.676    Ms. Lee. Did you consult with any victims and survivors of677gun violence?678    Mr. Cekada. No, we did not.679    Ms. Lee. Did you consult with any gun violence prevention680organizations?681    Mr. Cekada. We did not.682    Ms. Lee. Are you familiar with the concept of industry683capture? What would you say to those who look at the684announcement and the process for crafting these rules and see685that ATF is, or might perceive ATF to be, influenced by the686very firearm industries it is meant to police?687    Mr. Cekada. Did you say, ``industry capture?'' I am sorry,688I did not hear you properly.689    Ms. Lee. Yes, sir.690    Mr. Cekada. Yes. Did you say----691    Ms. Lee. I asked if you are familiar with the concept of692industry capture.693    Mr. Cekada. Well, the first time I heard that was reading a694news article, I believe, today, this morning, and so, I can695tell you ATF is not captured by anyone. We are focused on doing696our job and following the law. I purposely did not meet with697anyone. We took the information that we have noticed over the698years. Again, I have been doing this 34 years and working in699the most violent cities in the United States and risking my700life, along with the lives of all of our partners around the701country, to try to make America's communities better. There is702ambiguity in the law, and I think it is important for people to703be able to follow the law, to understand the law, and when704Federal agents do not understand the law themselves, that705leaves all of us at risk. There should not be any room there.706    So, no, and again, people were upset at me from both sides707because we did not include anyone, but in order to try and make708changes, we had to do it in the way we did so that we can now709discuss this through the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM)710process. Everyone--your constituents, everyone's constituents--711in this room will have the opportunity to comment. We will take712those comments seriously.713    Ms. Lee. Okay. Thank you, and I look forward to that. And I714will be sending you a letter with additional concerns and715questions that I have around this rulemaking process, and I716urge you to consider these regulations and remember your717mission: to keep Americans safe. As it stands, Americans are718not safe, and there is a deep perception and reality that there719are certain lobbyists--the gun industry--that have influence720over our processes, they have influence over policymaking, and721it is important that we root that out and that we are honest722about that. I thank you for your time, and I yield back.723    Mr. Higgins. The gentlelady yields. I recognize Mr. Gosar724for 5 minutes of questioning.725    Mr. Gosar. Thank you, Chairman Higgins. The Firearm Owners726Protection Act bans the Federal Government from creating a727national gun owner database, and the Tiahrt Amendment prevents728the ATF from sharing firearm records of law-abiding Americans.729My bill, H.R. 7678, the GRIP Act, goes further by blocking730Federal funds from helping states or local governments create731similar databases. I introduced the GRIP Act in response to732several unconstitutional disclosures of private information and733firearms.734    In 2012, The Journal News published the names and addresses735of gun permit holders in New York. In 2022, the California736Department of Justice released the personal information of737nearly 192,000 concealed carry applicants. And in 2024, the ATF738released the firearm records to USA Today despite those records739being protected under the Tiahrt Amendment. Later that same740year, the ATF also released firearm data to the far-left741magazine known as The Trace in violation of Federal law. My742bill, the GRIP Act, makes sure that Federal tax dollars are743never used to support state recordkeeping systems that put744Americans' privacy at risk.745    Director Cekada, does the Federal Government maintain any746Federal firearm databases?747    Mr. Cekada. Sir, the closest thing to what I would call a748database is the National Firearms and Transfer Record, which749applies to NFA firearms. As it applies to any other firearms750that are under the Gun Control Act (GCA), there is no database.751    Mr. Gosar. Okay. So, in 2021, a memo leaked by Gun Owners752of America revealed that the ATF does have a Federal firearm753database containing over 50 million out-of-business records of754gun dealers. Is this not a firearm database maintained by the755Federal Government?756    Mr. Cekada. It is not a firearms database. Again, sir--I am757sorry--I will explain what the out-of-business records are, and758the out-of-business records are, under law, as well, once a759Federal firearms licensee goes out of business, they are760required to turn over their records to ATF within 30 days.761ATF's National Tracing Center ends up processing these records762that come in all shapes and forms--ripped, torn, old, moldy, et763cetera--and they scan these forms into our system there.764    In the system, the only thing that is actually searchable765is a serial number, and most manufacturers' serial numbers are766repeated. Even when, for example, a police officer tries to767determine if a firearm is stolen, you have to include make,768model, and serial number to be able to determine which firearm769you are actually referring to. Those records are completely770separate from every active Federal firearms licensee that is771operating in the United States. So, if we try to conduct a772trace and we try those initial out-of-business records, which773we are required to maintain by law, and we strike out, we do774not have anything, we have to try to determine when it was775manufactured from the manufacturer, then we get to that Federal776firearms licensee, and then it is a phone call where they777actually have to go through all their files and find the778individual 4473 if they are using a paper system. A lot of the779FFLs today use a digital system that we do not have access to.780    So, they are able to tell us in short order, if we call781them late at night that, Madam Proprietor, hey, there was a782shooting, we are trying to track down who may have had this783firearm, they have to go through their records to provide us784that information. We do not have access to it. And ultimately,785for court, we would go and obtain an original copy, provide786them with the receipt, and then return the original copy once787we were done with the case.788    Mr. Gosar. So, has the ATF ever violated the Tiahrt789Amendment?790    Mr. Cekada. As I said, we have, what I am aware of,791inadvertently. I am not aware of any intentional releases done792by anyone on my staff during my time that I have been in a793leadership position.794    Mr. Gosar. So, you said that it has been violated, right?795    Mr. Cekada. Say it again, sir?796    Mr. Gosar. The Tiahrt Amendment was violated, right?797    Mr. Cekada. It was, and as I answered Chairman Higgins,798that there was an inadvertent leak that I am aware of--not a799leak--an inadvertent failed attempt to redact information that800was responsive to GOA, and that resulted in information being801released that should not be released. So, you are correct.802    Mr. Gosar. Okay. Well, I am strongly opposed to any gun803owners database. Congress must pass my bill to defund state804registries and eliminate all Federal gun owner registries.805Whether it lasts 60 years, 30 years, 20 years, and ten years, a806registry is still a registry. Congress has always rejected the807idea of government keeping a list of firearm owners. Thank you.808I yield back.809    Mr. Higgins. The gentleman yields. Mr. Bell is recognized810for 5 minutes for questioning.811    Mr. Bell. Thank you, Mr. Chair. First, it is really good to812see the Moms Demand Action t-shirts in the crowd. I should have813expected that, but it is certainly a pleasant surprise to see814you all there. I say it all the time, if you want to know my815policies on commonsense gun safety laws, look at their website.816    Mr. Cekada, unlike many of this Administration's817appointees, you actually have experience in this field, and so818that is actually refreshing to see. But as a former prosecutor,819which I am sure you have been involved in many of these820investigations like myself, I have learned a simple reality,821and that is most guns used in crimes started somewhere legal.822They are manufactured, sold by a licensed dealer and a823background check is completed, and that is where the paper824trail begins and, too often, where it ends. But what happens825next is the real problem, simple but yet profound, and that is826guns move. Guns move from licensed dealers into the secondary827market. They move through unlicensed sellers who are not828running background checks, are not keeping records, and are not829accountable to anyone, and they end up at crime scenes. And too830often I have shown up at crime scenes and seen not only people831being harmed, but children as well, both of which are tragic.832    The Bipartisan Safer Communities Act addressed the loophole833law enforcement had raised concerns about for years. The834``engaged in the business'' rule created clear standards for835when repeated gun sales crossed the line into illegal,836unlicensed dealing. But on May 6, 2026, of this year,837obviously, ATF published proposed changes that would weaken838that rule. Weakening these standards makes it harder to ensure839repeat for-profit guns sellers get a Federal license, keep840records, and run background checks, and when you roll back841these standards, the behavior does not stop. The accountability842is what stops. Unlicensed sellers can operate more freely, sell843more guns, and do so knowing it will be harder for law844enforcement to stop them, and we know how this story ends.845Missouri already showed us.846    In 2007, Missouri repealed its permit-to-purchase law, and847firearm homicides increased by 47 percent in our state. Law848enforcement also began recovering much newer guns at crime849scenes, a sign that illegal gun trafficking was increasing, but850here is what makes this moment especially troubling. We are not851just weakening an enforcement tool. We are doing so while this852Congress is further threatening our ability to track the impact853of these decisions through limits on gun trace data and854research.855    Director Cekada, I have several questions about how the ATF856plans to explain that to the American people. So, how does857weakening the engaged in the business rule improve public858safety?859    Mr. Cekada. First of all, good morning, and thank you for860your question. The ``engage in the business'' rule did not help861public safety at all, to be very frank, so this is not the862first attempt that was done in the history that I have been863working with ATF.864    Mr. Bell. I am going to reclaim my time just because I am865short on time, and I want to get as many questions as I can.866    Mr. Cekada. Sure.867    Mr. Bell. In this proposal, ATF concedes that weakening868this rule may cause some previously deterred sellers to go back869to operating without a license. The resulting risk to public870safety is described as de minimis. Please explain that871characterization to this Committee because families impacted by872gun violence in my district and across the country might873describe those consequences very differently. How did ATF reach874that conclusion?875    Mr. Cekada. ATF reached that conclusion because to become a876Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL), you have to go through ATF to877get a Federal firearms license. We know how many come into878business each year and how many go out of business each year.879So, we specifically were looking at those numbers and saw a880minuscule increase in the number of people who became Federal881firearms licensees since the time that the ``engaged in the882business'' (EIB) rule came into effect, and for us, that showed883us nothing. It showed a zero impact in helping public safety,884but the negative result on ATF, when you compile some of the885other things that were put on the Agency, frankly, some of the886release of other information, some of the efforts as it was on887stabilizing brace and other things, all caused the Agency to888receive a negative result on our budget, which I can tell you889had a negative impact on public safety.890    The ``engaged in the business'' rule, I can give you an891example. Every year, somewhere between 6,000 to 9,000 FFLs go892into business. Six thousand to 9,000 go out of business. Kind893of like the restaurant business, it is a tough business, and894there are folks that have been doing this for decades and they895have been following the rules, and those people interact with896ATF very much. I will make one comment because you mentioned897Bipartisan Safer Communities Act (BSCA). I would like----898    Mr. Bell. Well, briefly, because I want to be respectful to899the time. The problem is that what we are seeing is the gun900violence increasing. You cannot weaken accountability, limit901the data used to measure the results, and still claim you are902protecting public safety. I yield back.903    Mr. Higgins. The gentlemen yields. Representative Perry904from Pennsylvania is recognized 5 minutes for questioning.905    Mr. Perry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Cekada, thanks for906your service to our country and for the work that you do. I am907just curious generally about your professional and your908position/relationship with the Department of Justice and the909Attorney General.910    Mr. Cekada. Well, first of all, good morning----911    Mr. Perry. Good morning.912    Mr. Cekada [continuing]. And thank you again. So, I met the913current Acting Attorney General, I think it was February or914March of last year. The entire team at the Attorney General's915office is new, so I have only known them through a professional916work relationship since that time.917    Mr. Perry. All right. I have got a lot of questions about918the DOJ, and I am trying to see how they might pertain to you.919So, when the DOJ does things that seem to be in your lane as920the Director of the ATF, do you weigh in? Do you have regular921meetings? Does your staff question? How does all that go, or is922there no conversation whatsoever, they do their thing, you923watch from afar, you might agree, disagree? So, I am just924wondering about that.925    Mr. Cekada. I think that is a pretty broad question. So, I926think in the areas that--we have meetings on a regular basis.927We are in phone contact daily: if not once a day, multiple928times a day.929    Mr. Perry. Okay.930    Mr. Cekada. But there are things, for example, matters that931were in the courts in a legislative area that DOJ was handling.932I do not work with them on a daily matter at all. A civil933litigation that is being represented by DOJ, they will handle934it. They may consult with our Chief Counsel at ATF to ensure935that we are in the right lane. But for the most part, they will936deal with ATF when it involves, for example, the regulatory937package that just went out, any criminal enforcement operations938that we have targeting cities that are being impacted by939violent crime. I will present, not the minutia, as to what is940going on in the operation, but we will lay out the plan for a941surge in a number of cities to reduce violent crime.942    Mr. Perry. Okay. Thank you, and I am wondering particularly943about actions that DOJ has taken, and I know that you may not944have been here as long as some of these things, but the945previous Administration accidentally sent GOA unredacted946information in a FOIA production. The ATF secured a gag order947against the GOA. Now, that was the ATF, secured the gag order948against the GOA, which, generally, gag orders are meant to949protect those that the government is prevailing upon, not950silence them. So, in that regard, what has been your input951regarding that particular instance? Are you familiar, or are952you not familiar?953    Mr. Cekada. I am, and that is the same case that we were954talking about earlier, sir, the case that GOA was involved in,955and that did occur in the previous Administration, so I was not956personally involved in that, but I am familiar with it. And as957I stated, that particular case was an inadvertent release by958our employees in the FOIA section.959    Mr. Perry. Right.960    Mr. Cekada. So, as far as ATF's discussion at the time and961DOJ's input, I was not involved. I am not aware what the962conversations were about that matter.963    Mr. Perry. And allegedly, the same program was used to spy964on so-called January 6 defendants and to enforce state so-965called assault weapons bans. Are you familiar with that?966    Mr. Cekada. I am not.967    Mr. Perry. Do you know if anybody has been held accountable968at ATF for those actions?969    Mr. Cekada. If you can be specific as to which actions you970are referring to?971    Mr. Perry. The ones that were used to enforce state assault972weapons bans for the----973    Mr. Cekada. I am not familiar with that, and just to be974clear, as to the GOA, the inadvertent release, no one has been975held accountable because we do not believe that anyone actually976did anything intentionally, but we have held ourselves977accountable by changing process and purchasing the appropriate978application to prevent and eliminate things like that again.979    Mr. Perry. All right. Are you familiar with the DOJ's980interpretation of the reconciliation language that was passed981in the House and the Senate and signed by the President982regarding the zero taxation of short-barreled rifles and983suppressors? Are you familiar with the DOJ's interpretation,984and do you agree with it?985    Mr. Cekada. I am not familiar with the specific verbiage. I986understand our responsibilities that came along with it.987Effective January 1, ATF has done everything we could do to the988best of our abilities to ensure we are in compliance with that.989    Mr. Perry. If you have a disagreement with the DOJ990regarding their interpretation of that law or any other one,991how is that evidenced? Do you send a letter? Do you speak to992the Attorney General? How is it evidenced publicly so that we993as the elected officials and representatives each of 760,000994bosses--our citizens--how do we articulate any difference of995opinion that you might have with the DOJ?996    Mr. Cekada. Sir, I apologize. I am not familiar with the997difference of opinion. I believe that ATF and DOJ are in line998with ensuring we are in compliance with the zero tax law, and I999was preparing from that from the moment it came into place, I1000believe it was June or July of last summer. It became effective1001in January, and to be clear, we did that with zero increase to1002our base. We did that with our own employees looking at the1003systems that we have, and looking at the process, and making1004significant changes. All of the reductions in processing time1005that I mentioned to you was not from us investing in new1006systems. It was from our people looking at why are things done1007a certain way and modernizing how we do it.1008    Prior to zero tax actually coming into effect, I tested the1009system myself. I never purchased a suppressor before because I1010could afford to buy one and I do not want to wait 14 months to1011get one. So, in November when we made the changes, I was happy1012to see--I did not tell any one of these folks, but I went out1013and purchased one--I was happy to see within about 48 hours, I1014was able to get an approval versus what was 14 months not too1015long prior to that. Those numbers have increased a little bit1016because on January 1, when it went into effect, the system took1017a little bit of a shock, but in the meantime, we are still at1018greatly reduced numbers from where we were in the years before.1019    Mr. Perry. My time has along expired. I yield, Mr.1020Chairman. Thank you.1021    Mr. Higgins. The gentlemen yields, and Ms. Pressley is1022recognized for 5 minutes for questioning.1023    Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning, Director1024Cekada.1025    Gun violence is a public health crisis, and this1026Administration is failing to meet it with the urgency that it1027demands. Across our country, including in my district, the1028Massachusetts 7th, families are bearing the devastating1029consequences of shootings, trafficking, domestic violence,1030femicide, suicide, and community trauma. Just this past Monday,1031a gunman armed with an assault rifle opened fire on random1032drivers and pedestrians traveling along Memorial Drive in1033Cambridge, terrorizing people in broad daylight. Constituents1034in my district and communities across this country should not1035have to live with the constant fear that their daily commute1036could become a mass casualty event. Now, while Massachusetts1037has some of the strongest gun safety laws in the Nation, more1038than two-thirds of guns recovered from crimes in our1039Commonwealth originate from out of state. At the same time,1040communities are demanding accountability.1041    Director Cekada, your Agency has weakened oversight of gun1042dealers by ending the zero tolerance policy for firearm dealers1043who violate the law. Mr. Director, yes or no, should gun1044dealers who willfully sell firearms to prohibited individuals1045be allowed to continue operating? Yes or no.1046    Mr. Cekada. Your statement is a violation of the law, and1047they should be put out of business if they willfully violate1048the Gun Control Act.1049    Ms. Pressley. All right. That is right. These dealers are1050breaking the law and previously would have had their licenses1051to sell revoked, but your Agency repealed that policy.1052Accountability should not be a radical concept here. Instead,1053your Agency has chosen to weaken enforcement while1054simultaneously defending policies that limit access to data1055that communities need to combat gun violence. This is bad1056public policy. This is bad for public safety. This is bad for1057public health. Survivors of gun violence carry lifelong trauma,1058especially our children. Increasingly so, a childhood is a1059privilege instead of a right. Young people are growing up1060internalizing trauma as a normal part of daily life: active1061shooter drills, memorials outside of school, parents afraid to1062allow their children to walk home alone. Now, all the data1063supports that exposure to gun violence has profound and lasting1064impacts on childhood development, mental and physical health,1065and educational attainment.1066    In the full Oversight Committee, I convened the first ever1067congressional hearing on childhood trauma. It was illuminating1068and devastating. Children who witness gun violence are more1069likely to experience anxiety, depression, and post-traumatic1070stress disorder (PTSD) well into adulthood. These children and1071their families are the people you should be centering in your1072work, Director Cekada. I believe the people closest to the pain1073should be the closest to the power, but let us look at who you1074are instead holding close to the power: not the traumatized1075children, not the grieving mothers, not the classroom educators1076who every day wonder is today the day that I will have to1077shield my student from a shooter.1078    Instead, this is a picture from your signing ceremony1079announcing over 30 changes to end gun safety protections, and1080standing directly behind you are the leaders of the gun lobby:1081the NRA, the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the National1082Association for Gun Rights, and others who have spent decades1083obstructing commonsense gun safety measures. The gun lobby is1084controlling the regulators while our communities are paying the1085price, burying loved ones, and raising children in fear. The1086shame and the sham of it all. I yield back.1087    Mr. Higgins. The gentlelady yields. The gentleman from1088Arizona, Mr. Biggs, is recognized for 5 minutes for1089questioning.1090    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Director, thank you for1091being here today, and shortly after you were sworn in, you did1092announce some rulemaking that you were going to change, and a1093few of these would do the following: end the Biden-era enhanced1094regulatory enforcement policy that unfairly targeted lawful1095firearms dealers unfairly; emphasize public safety while1096deemphasizing punitive measures for clerical errors; restrict1097the Agency's National Instant Criminal Background Check1098System--the NICS system--alerts to Federal gun trafficking1099violations; improve the Agency's response times to inquiries1100from FFLs; and ended bans on the importation of dual-use1101barrels and non-lethal training ammunition. How are you doing1102in getting those rules passed and implemented, sir?1103    Mr. Cekada. Well, good morning, sir. Thank you for your1104question. So, there are lot of things that you mentioned there1105that I think people are reviewing now to see what their1106thoughts are on their perspective. I will tell you that we have1107heard some initial thoughts from both sides: the gun safety1108community and from the Second Amendment community. Initially, I1109think there was a lot of comments as I made the announcement,1110and there was, I think, two sentences of text out on each reg.1111I heard that the world was ending on one side, and on the other1112side I did not do enough.1113    So, I think as the text is coming out, people are starting1114to read and doing exactly what I was hoping they would do, is1115starting to make comments into the process through the1116rulemaking process. And we hope that they share with us their1117concerns from the gun safety community and from the 2A1118community as to, hey, did we hit it----1119    Mr. Biggs. Director----1120    Mr. Cekada [continuing]. Or did we miss something.1121    Mr. Biggs. The 2A community is also a gun safety community.1122    Mr. Cekada. I agree. I agree.1123    Mr. Biggs. That is important to distinguish that----1124    Mr. Cekada. I agree.1125    Mr. Biggs [continuing]. And always remember that----1126    Mr. Cekada. I agree.1127    Mr. Biggs [continuing]. As opposed to the anti-gun1128community. So, what I want to know, is one of them was firearms1129electronic recordkeeping, and tell me why is it better to store1130records the way the rule proposes right now, it is proposed11311140-AA94.1132    Mr. Cekada. I am sorry, sir. I did not hear you well. I1133apologize.1134    Mr. Biggs. Yes, I am sorry. The firearms electronic1135recordkeeping and rulemaking proposal, why is it better to1136store records that way?1137    Mr. Cekada. Well, first of all, it is much easier for us1138when we work with the FFLs. If they are using an electronic1139form, the number of errors that they make are greatly reduced1140because the system helps them check through the processing of1141the 4473s. In years past, the handwritten 4473s, the FFLs often1142made a template, kind of like what we went through in school1143where your teachers would grade your exams, and they were1144rushing through to do things properly, would make, as you1145stated, some administrative mistakes. So, that, combined with1146the changes to the 4473 that we proposed, which would make1147things simpler to be able to answer the important questions1148without trying to trick anyone. I have had to pause numerous1149times filling out a 4473 with no concern as to any criminal1150record, but wanting to make sure that I did not make a mistake,1151that somehow I was going to get in trouble.1152    So, we tried to make that a form that answers all the1153concerns of government and public safety, but also to do it in1154a way where some of these systems allow for a driver's license1155to be swiped into the reader, and it fills out all of the1156information into the electronic form, which, thereby, again,1157reduces the amount of errors that can be in that form. So, for1158us and for the consumer and the public, that was the best way1159to proceed and would allow people to do so.1160    Mr. Biggs. One of the things then that I want to ask then,1161and it kind of follows up with what Rep. Gosar was talking1162about, is what safeguards and protections of data privacy,1163protecting from intrusion by both the government and private1164citizens, does this system have in place, or what you hope and1165envision being in place?1166    Mr. Cekada. Yes. So, again, to be clear, we have zero1167connection to the system that the Federal firearms licensees1168use. It does make it much more efficient for a Federal firearms1169licensee in receiving a phone call from ATF regarding following1170up on a criminal investigation. Instead of sorting through1171hundreds or thousands of paper records, they can go through an1172electronic system, allow them to retrieve what they need, and1173provide ATF with a specific answer to our questions.1174    Mr. Biggs. Thank you. In the last seconds, I am going to1175pose this question. I do not think you are going to have time1176to respond to it, but right now in Maricopa County, we still1177see, in Arizona, a massive amount of drug cartel and criminal1178cartel activity, and one of the things that is going on is they1179are sending guns and firearms south of the border. And so, you1180got drugs coming up, guns going down, cash going down, and 621181percent of the U.S. guns recovered within the Sinaloa drug1182cartel war have been traced right back and have been trafficked1183out of Arizona. So, I guess my question is, and you do not have1184time to answer it, but we will maybe get together afterwards,1185but I would like to know what your position is on how to--what1186operations you have taken, in place, to stop southbound1187trafficking of weapons. And I think that is critical in our1188relationship with Mexico, but also in the United States.1189    And so, with that, Mr. Chairman, thank you for indulgence,1190and I yield.1191    Mr. Cekada. I would love to answer that question if I am1192allowed to, sir.1193    Mr. Higgins. Yes, sir, go ahead.1194    Mr. Cekada. I will keep it short.1195    Mr. Higgins. Go ahead and briefly answer the gentleman's1196question.1197    Mr. Cekada. And we can go into further details in the1198future, but so long story short, under the last Administration1199under BSCA, there was authorities for firearms trafficking.1200Sadly, my agents in Arizona specifically tried to present over1201250 cases where about that many defendants were identified as1202being involved in trafficking conspiracies to Mexican cartels,1203specifically mainly in rifles and belt-fed firearms that were1204being sourced on behalf of the cartels through straw purchasers1205and traffickers that were actually cartel members. Sadly, the1206U.S. Attorney at the time refused to take those charges1207forward. So, I sat there gaining great concern not only for the1208community in the United States, but also in Mexico, and living1209in the past of our fears, I saw Operation Fast and Furious1210developing again where ATF was tracking firearms that were1211already sold and no one was doing anything about it, and we1212were going to be held accountable.1213    I approached Todd Blanche, who, he and Emil Bove had just1214started there, and I literally brought a stack to them and1215said, ``Hey, although we had the BSCA, nobody was getting1216charged. I need some help on this because ATF is not going to1217sit back and take the blame for cases that should be charged by1218a Federal prosecutor.'' They jumped on it. We started working1219on the highest-priority cases. As a result of the work that my1220folks are doing, we have charged the first conspiracies1221involving dirty FFLs. One I will name because it is public,1222Grips By Larry, who was involved in trafficking large amounts1223of belt-fed firearms through a series of straws, but also1224cartel members who recruited these straws. Those people are now1225charged with providing material support to a terrorist1226organization.1227    The goal of that is to serve significant deterrence, and as1228we talked about, we do not prevent violent crime by threatening1229gun owners and law-abiding citizens. We prevent violent crime1230by holding criminals accountable and serving through the courts1231a significant sentence that serves as a deterrence, and that is1232what I have seen as the best measure of defense to the public.1233    Mr. Biggs. I look forward to more details and meeting with1234you one-on-one, Director.1235    Mr. Higgins. We appreciate that answer, and I appreciate--1236--1237    Mr. Biggs. I have some UCs.1238    Mr. Higgins [continuing]. The indulgence of the Ranking1239Member.1240    Mr. Biggs. Can I do UCs, Mr. Chairman?1241    Mr. Higgins. The gentlemen from Florida, Mr. Frost.1242    Yes to unanimous consent?1243    Mr. Biggs. Yes, if you do not mind. ``RPG Launcher Tube,1244Rifles Hidden in Lexus Headed to Mexico;'' ``Arizona Gun Dealer1245Facing Terrorism Charges for Alleged Sales to Cartel;''1246``Mexican National Sentenced in Major Mid-East Mexico-Arizona1247Smuggling Scheme;'' ``Arizona Guns are Fueling a Drug Cartel1248War in Mexico;'' ``Arizona Sheltering in Place After Cartel1249Violence;'' and ``Gun Owners of American Battles ATF Gag Order1250Over Secret Surveillance of Legal Guns.''1251    Mr. Higgins. Without objection, so ordered.1252    The gentleman from Florida, Mr. Frost, is recognized, and1253thank you for your patience, Mr. Frost.1254    Mr. Frost. Yes.1255    Mr. Higgins. You are recognized.1256    Mr. Frost. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Director Cekada, you1257were sworn in as Director of ATF on April 29. On the same day1258that you were sworn in, you announced over 30 changes to1259Federal firearm regulations with representatives of the gun1260industry standing behind you, corporate interests, and then1261published just a few days later on May 9. So, the average1262person sees and says, well, the way this is supposed to work is1263you get sworn into a job, you get into the work, you work with1264your staff, and you figure out what changes you want to make,1265but the fact that you announced over 30 changes in just a few1266hours shows us that obviously there was some work done before1267you were sworn in before you got the actual job, so I have some1268questions around that, Director. Did you start developing these1269regulations or these changes under the Biden Administration or1270the Trump Administration?1271    Mr. Cekada. Well, good morning, sir, and thank you for your1272question. To be clear, when the Biden Administration exited, I1273was the Executive Assistant Director for Operations at ATF, and1274I was shortly thereafter promoted to the Deputy Director where1275I had complete oversight of our Agency's operations since April12762025. So, the work did not start on May 8 or May 1. We have1277been working as an Agency together for over a year, as we were1278supposed to under President Trump's Second Amendment Executive1279Order, to review all policies, regulations, and other items----1280    Mr. Frost. So----1281    Mr. Cekada [continuing]. That may have----1282    Mr. Frost. Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.1283So, you have been working on the slew of 30 different1284deregulatory things. You have been working on it before you1285were sworn in. You had these ideas before you were getting1286ready to put them forth, I guess, hoping that one day you might1287be nominated as a Director.1288    Mr. Cekada. No, that is not true. They were going to go1289forward regardless because ATF was still tasked by the1290President to proceed with this review, and we were going to1291push them forward, frankly----1292    Mr. Frost. So, yes, sir----1293    Mr. Cekada [continuing]. Whether I got confirmed or not.1294    Mr. Frost [continuing]. And thank you. I am going to1295reclaim my time. And so, I do not see a world where the1296President would nominate you to this position without knowing1297that you would actually move forward with putting forth these129830 regulations that you say you had been working on because of1299the executive order. Were these regulations discussed in any1300interview that you had for your promotion? Yes or no.1301    Mr. Cekada. I have never talked to the President about any1302regulations.1303    Mr. Frost. Anyone in the Administration?1304    Mr. Cekada. The only people I have talked to about1305regulations are at DOJ.1306    Mr. Frost. DOJ. So, did they discuss with you these1307regulations before you were nominated for this position?1308    Mr. Cekada. No. ATF worked on these, and we developed the1309initial drafts, and then there is a review process that1310involved----1311    Mr. Frost. Yes, sir. I reclaim my time. Did you agree to1312enact any of these regulations in your discussions?1313    Mr. Cekada. Say that again?1314    Mr. Frost. Did you agree to enact any of these regulations1315in your discussions before you were nominated?1316    Mr. Cekada. Well, first off, these are proposed----1317    Mr. Frost. It just ``yes'' or ``no,'' sir, yes.1318    Mr. Cekada. Well, sir, sorry, that does not answer the1319question.1320    Mr. Frost. It does answer the questions. Did you agree to1321enact any of these regulations or put forth these rules or1322proposals? I know how the process works, Director.1323    Mr. Cekada. Sir, you do not actually know.1324    Mr. Frost. Yes, I do.1325    Mr. Cekada. No, you do not.1326    Mr. Frost. Yes, I do. Did you agree to put forth these1327proposals for rule changes while you were having discussions1328about your possible promotion? Yes or no. That is it.1329    Mr. Cekada. The answer is not going to be ``yes'' or1330``no.'' So, the answer is they are proposals, not enacted1331rules, and, yes, I----1332    Mr. Frost. They are proposed rules, yes. Were they1333discussed while you were talking about your promotion? Yes or1334no.1335    Mr. Cekada. Sir, this has nothing to do with my promotion.1336    Mr. Frost. Sir, I answer the questions. You answer the1337questions, sir. I am just asking. Why are you----1338    Mr. Cekada. I am not going to answer ``yes'' or ``no'' to a1339question that cannot be answered ``yes'' or ``no.'' Sorry.1340    Mr. Frost. Why can't it be answered ``yes'' or ``no?''1341    Mr. Cekada. Because you are intentionally trying to argue1342with me here about something that you are completely wrong on.1343First of all, the regulations are not finalized. Those are----1344    Mr. Frost. I know. I am saying ``proposed rules.''1345    Mr. Cekada. No, you do not know because you keep telling1346me----1347    Mr. Frost. So----1348    Mr. Cekada [continuing]. They are enacted, and they are not1349enacted. Proposed.1350    Mr. Frost. Proposed rules.1351    Mr. Cekada. You keep mixing up the words to try to trap me.1352    Mr. Frost. Proposed rules. Were those discussed while you1353were talking about the possible promotion? Yes or no.1354    Mr. Cekada. They were discussed with no guarantee of any1355sort of promotion. As you know, the Senate does get to make a1356decision that I am not involved in.1357    Mr. Frost. Yes. So, in your discussions with folks in the1358Administration about your possible promotion, the proposed1359rules were discussed with them. You are saying yes.1360    Mr. Cekada. Of course they were. I told you that multiple1361times.1362    Mr. Frost. Okay. Thank you. That is all I wanted. Do you1363believe you were promoted to do that, to put forth this package1364of 30 different proposals?1365    Mr. Cekada. This is not going to be a ``yes'' or ``no''1366answer either. So, sir, I could have retired in November. I did1367not need a promotion.1368    Mr. Frost. I understand. I will take my time back. I know1369you could have retired in November.1370    Mr. Cekada. Take all the time you want.1371    Mr. Frost. You have been at the ATF for a long time. You1372have done great work. I am just concerned about the fact that1373on the same day as your confirmation----1374    Mr. Cekada. I understand.1375    Mr. Frost [continuing]. You move forth with a package of1376over 30 changes giving the public--how many days does the1377public get?1378    Mr. Cekada. Ninety.1379    Mr. Frost. Ninety days for a huge package of 30 different1380things that you, I know for a fact, helped work on. Did you do1381not?1382    Mr. Cekada. I read every one of them. Yes, sir.1383    Mr. Frost. No, no, no. I am saying, you worked on--let me1384be clear. You worked on a lot of these proposed rules that were1385enacted by the ATF under the Biden Administration that helped1386save lives, yes?1387    Mr. Cekada. So, a couple things. You are----1388    Mr. Frost. No, no, no. It is just ``yes'' or ``no.''1389    Mr. Cekada. No, it is not ``yes''----1390    Mr. Frost. Did you work on some----1391    Mr. Cekada. Sorry. It is not ``yes'' or ``no.''1392    Mr. Frost. It is ``yes'' or ``no.''1393    Mr. Cekada. No.1394    Mr. Frost. Did you work on some of the rules----1395    Mr. Cekada. No, I did not.1396    Mr. Frost [continuing]. That the Biden Administration put1397forth help save lives?1398    Mr. Cekada. No. No.1399    Mr. Frost. You did not?1400    Mr. Cekada. No.1401    Mr. Frost. You are saying you did not, under oath, that you1402did not work any of them.1403    Mr. Cekada. I am telling you, I did not work on any of the1404rules.1405    Mr. Frost. I am sorry?1406    Mr. Cekada. I did not work on any of the rules, not one.1407    Mr. Frost. I do not believe that is true.1408    Mr. Cekada. That is great.1409    Mr. Frost. I do not believe that is true. In fact, I know1410for a fact that you worked on some of the rules under the Biden1411Administration----1412    Mr. Cekada. Which one?1413    Mr. Frost [continuing]. That helped save lives. So, it is1414unfortunate----1415    Mr. Cekada. Which one is that?1416    Mr. Frost. I ask the questions, sir. It is unfortunate that1417now you have been put in a position with an Administration that1418has done everything it can to undermine the agents and the work1419of the ATF: budget cuts, firing. The ATF has not had political1420appointees in any position except the Director in any1421Administration except this Administration. Marvin Richardson,1422Pamela Hicks, Jennifer Ambuehl forced out or fired, and now you1423are put in here to put forth regulations--I want to show this--1424--1425    [Poster]1426    Mr. Frost [continuing]. That are going to make our1427communities less safe. The work that you were a part of doing1428and many other people in the ATF were a part of doing helped1429us, and I ask for a little more time here because we had 31430minutes to go over the last person.1431    Gun violence has been going down----1432    Mr. Higgins. Pardon.1433    Mr. Frost [continuing]. Because of the work that you helped1434do, Director.1435    Mr. Higgins. Correct the gentleman. That was 3 minutes to1436allow the witness to answer questions.1437    Mr. Frost. Well, if I can have 15 more seconds, Mr. Chair--1438that you helped do to help end gun violence, and I know you are1439upset. I would be upset, too. This works. What we have been1440doing works, and the fact that you were sworn in, and the same1441day you come forth standing with industry behind you, shows us,1442I guess, where your allegiance are or where perhaps you were1443told if you want this promotion, what you need to do, which is1444undermine the Agency that you have done work in for a lot of1445your life, and I think it is disgraceful. I yield back.1446    Mr. Cekada. Sir, may I respond to that?1447    Mr. Frost. The gentleman yields. We are going to give you1448plenty of time to respond, but I recognize Mr. Cloud from1449Texas.1450    Mr. Cloud. Thank you, Chairman, and thank you, Director,1451for being here. I am absolutely shocked that the President1452would nominate somebody to enact his agenda as the head of an1453Agency that he oversees due to the authority granted to him by1454the people under the Constitution of the United States. And so,1455congratulations on your nomination to this post.1456Congratulations on getting through the Senate confirmation1457process and your robust getting to work on day one. I think1458that is to be commended among the agencies.1459    I wanted to ask you, a lot has been covered on the gag1460order that has come down and the leak that happened. I just1461wanted to ask if any discipline action has been taken for the1462person who had leaked the information.1463    Mr. Cekada. You are talking about the GOA?1464    Mr. Cloud. Yes.1465    Mr. Cekada. No. So, again, sir, no one was disciplined. We1466looked into it, and if there was an intentional leak of any of1467that information, we would have submitted that to our Internal1468Affairs Division for review.1469    Mr. Cloud. How would you determine if it was intentional?1470    Mr. Cekada. It was not intentional because we actually had,1471sadly, a significant reduction in folks in the FOIA staff----1472    Mr. Cloud. Okay.1473    Mr. Cekada [continuing]. But also the software we used----1474    Mr. Cloud. Was not much.1475    Mr. Cekada [continuing]. Was a horrible, clunky software1476that, like many of our systems, was outdated.1477    Mr. Cloud. Right.1478    Mr. Cekada. It was not an intentional leak. I have to own1479the mistake for the Agency and for our employees----1480    Mr. Cloud. Right.1481    Mr. Cekada [continuing]. But we have taken steps to ensure1482that does not happen by buying a new software to improve that1483system.1484    Mr. Cloud. Okay. Thank you. As you know, on November 21,1485our office led a letter to the ATF some time ago, found out1486that there was the out-of-records database, almost a billion1487gun records at the time. My guess is it is over that now.1488During the Biden Administration, we sent a follow-up letter to1489that and never got a response. In February of last year, we1490sent the letter again under the new Trump Administration. We1491still have not gotten a response to it. I realize at the time1492you were Acting Director. I do not know if, you know, awaiting1493confirmation and all that held it up, but I would like to1494remind you of that and submit it into the record as well. If we1495could get a response on that, that would help.1496    There are a number of questions in there that I think would1497be helpful as we are looking in the public comment period on1498these proposed rules in regards to how effective traces are and1499the like, and to your point on enforcement, I thought that was1500a good point. One of the things I think it is important for us1501to recognize is traces do not actually stop a crime from1502happening. It is after the crime has happened. It helps us1503potentially to, you know, find the criminal or find out what1504happened, but I wanted to ask you about, does the ATF purchase1505data?1506    Mr. Cekada. I am not sure what data. I mean, we have----1507    Mr. Cloud. Like purchase records or credit card records or?1508    Mr. Cekada. Not that I am familiar with. We have----1509    Mr. Cloud. Okay. We found out recently that the FBI has1510been doing that for a few years.1511    Mr. Cekada. So, I will tell you, we have recently purchased1512a program. Geez, I cannot remember. It is an ad tech type1513thing, for example, on your cellphones, my cellphone as well.1514Based on the ads that go through your phone, you can get1515geolocation data. We have purchased access to that system, but1516we have not used it for a criminal case because we have not1517established any sort of policies yet on how we would do it.1518That system is one that is available to the general public as1519well. It does not identify anyone by name, but it gives us1520either an IP address if it is connected to a Wi-Fi or the1521International Mobile Equipment Identity (IMEI) number on the1522cellphone so that we would be able to conduct an investigation.1523It is very new for us----1524    Mr. Cloud. Okay.1525    Mr. Cekada [continuing]. So we have not used it and want to1526make sure we establish clear guidelines before we use anything1527like that.1528    Mr. Cloud. I only have about a minute left. That opens up a1529whole new can of worms that we will probably have to get into1530at another point.1531    During the Biden Administration, the ATF was doing knock-1532and-talk visits where, basically, they would show up on1533people's doorsteps, ask them, ``We have a record that you have1534these firearms in your house. Do you have them?'' I imagine the1535ATF has stopped that practice under the Trump Administration?1536    Mr. Cekada. Yes. The only time something like that should1537happen is if we are following up on----1538    Mr. Cloud. Well----1539    Mr. Cekada [continuing]. A suspected firearms trafficking1540investigation.1541    Mr. Cloud. Yes, but it was happening beyond that, you know,1542and it was not related to trafficking under the Biden1543Administration. You said that in the out-of-business data1544records, all that is searchable is the serial number. I am1545curious, what are the mechanics before an ATF agent is able to1546pop up on somebody's doorstep with a list of what firearms are1547allegedly in their house?1548    Mr. Cekada. We will not have that.1549    Mr. Higgins. The gentlemen's time has expired, but I am1550going to allow Mr. Cekada----1551    Mr. Cekada. Yes.1552    Mr. Higgins [continuing]. To answer that final question.1553    Mr. Cloud. Because that was happening----1554    Mr. Cekada. Yes. So, Representative----1555    Mr. Cloud [continuing]. Under the Biden Administration. So,1556how did that happen?1557    Mr. Cekada. So, I do not know what you are referring to1558specifically, but I can tell you, for example, I would get1559calls when I was an agent and my folks get calls daily, people1560either have their firearms lost or stolen and say, ``Hey, can1561you please tell me what my make, model, and serial number is.''1562We have no way of doing it. The only thing we do is tell folks,1563``Hey, you should go back to the Federal firearms licensee that1564you purchased your firearm, and if they are still in business,1565they will be able to give you a copy of your 4473 so you could1566report your firearm stolen.'' So, I am not familiar with how1567that information----1568    Mr. Higgins. We thank the gentlemen for that answer.1569    Mr. Cloud. Thank you.1570    Mr. Higgins. Ms. Ansari is recognized for 5 minutes for1571questioning.1572    Ms. Ansari. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The epidemic of gun1573violence in this country is a national emergency. You would1574think that recent events, like the attempted assassination at1575the White House Correspondence Dinner, would shake my1576Republican colleagues into action, but sadly it did not. In1577fact, Republicans responded with even less than their usual1578thoughts and prayers. Instead, they offered a ballroom. A $4001579million ballroom, which the Trump Administration is now1580requesting $1 billion for from the American taxpayer, a1581ballroom promoted by Donald Trump, echoed by Fox News, and1582amplified by the "Make America Great Again" (MAGA) influencer1583machine quite literally within minutes.1584    It would be laughable if it were not so deeply offensive1585because if a ballroom is your solution to gun violence, then1586every student in America deserves one, or we could actually1587pass policies that save lives. If you want a ballroom that1588works, here is what it should stand for.1589    Ban on assault weapons, accountability for gun1590manufacturers, licensing requirements for gun owners, limits on1591high-capacity magazines, red flag laws to stop tragedies before1592they happen, oversight of gun sales, our kids safe in schools1593and public spaces, mental health support, and community1594violence prevention. That is a ballroom worth building in this1595country because the truth is I am rarely shocked anymore, still1596outraged--outraged that instead of action, we get distractions,1597and it is not normal and we should not accept it.1598    Before I came to Congress, I fought to keep confiscated and1599forfeited guns from being sold back into the streets of1600Phoenix. I did that because Phoenix families do not need more1601guns cycling from evidence rooms back into neighborhoods. Since1602then, I have seen the Federal Agency in charge of responding to1603gun crime being pulled off mission in a way that I think is1604shocking.1605    Director Cekada, yes or no, ATF's core public safety1606mission is not mass deportation. It is reducing violent gun1607crimes, tracing crime guns, and dismantling illegal firearms1608and trafficking networks. Is that correct?1609    Mr. Cekada. To be clear, yes, ma'am, our focus is violent1610crime.1611    Ms. Ansari. And reportedly, about 80 percent of ATF's1612roughly 2,500 agents have been ordered to take on some sort of1613immigration enforcement task. Yes or no, does that number sound1614right to you, Director?1615    Mr. Cekada. It is wrong.1616    Ms. Ansari. It is wrong. Okay. During the failed Minnesota1617immigration blitz that resulted in the murders of Alex Pretti1618and Renee Good, new Federal gun and drug prosecution fell from161977 cases to eight cases compared with the same months a year1620earlier, which is absolutely unacceptable. Yes or no, when ATF1621special agents are assigned to immigration enforcement, this1622replaces their otherwise full-time responsibilities to develop1623crime gun leads, work trafficking cases, or support local1624violent crime task forces.1625    Mr. Cekada. No, because we have no one reassigned to Title16268 enforcement.1627    Ms. Ansari. Not one person is reassigned.1628    Mr. Cekada. Not one person has been reassigned.1629    Ms. Ansari. So, the report of 80 percent is absolutely1630false.1631    Mr. Cekada. That report is the Cato Institute, and not only1632is it completely wrong, it has given multiple numbers--I do not1633even have 2,500 agents, first of all, and that is number one,1634including me. I am still an ATF agent. I know how many agents1635are assigned to immigration enforcement. At max, we were asked1636to have 300 people available per day from the inception of1637Title 8 enforcement, and at max, when I testified at my1638confirmation hearing, we were at approximately 75 people a day.1639We are currently at 42 people a day. I keep track of that1640through our field operations, and it is reported up to me1641daily, so I know exactly how many people. Cato Institute does1642not know anything about what ATF is doing.1643    Ms. Ansari. So, is this information that you can present to1644us in writing or in some sort of formal documentation?1645    Mr. Cekada. I have done that, and I will do it again.1646    Ms. Ansari. Okay. I want to focus more on Arizona. This is1647especially important. In a state like Arizona that is a border1648state, how many ATF agents in the Phoenix Field Division have1649been assigned to immigration enforcement in 2025 and 2026, and1650how many total agent hours has that consumed?1651    Mr. Cekada. I do not have that number, but I could get back1652to you on that.1653    Ms. Ansari. Okay, and I want for you to commit to providing1654us the number of agents assigned to immigration enforcement,1655the number of agent hours spent in any gun crime work delayed1656or reduced. So, it sounds like you are willing to put that in1657writing to us.1658    Mr. Cekada. Yes, ma'am.1659    Ms. Ansari. Okay. Thank you. The record, I believe, is1660absolutely clear that the Trump Administration has made1661horrific choices. So, I look forward to seeing that in writing1662because if any, even one agent, is misassigned or reassigned, I1663think that is a massive problem given that this is a national1664crisis in this country. Thank you.1665    Mr. Higgins. The gentlelady yields. Mr. Burlison is1666recognized for questioning for 5 minutes.1667    Mr. Burlison. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In Missouri's 7th1668Congressional District, we are deeply appreciative of the1669Second Amendment. It is widely exercised. Southwest Missouri is1670home to what is estimated to be approximately 300,000 law-1671abiding gun owners, and their families also cherish the rights,1672that they know that they can rest safely in their home. I1673assure you Southwest Missouri is one of the safest places you1674could possibly visit, and I am honored that they elected me to1675be the trustee, the custodian of these cherished rights, and as1676their elected official, that is my responsibility.1677    I want to kind of stress to you that you have a new1678responsibility. I know that you have worked your way through1679the ATF. The role that you have today is a different role, and1680I want to stress that to you. Your role is now to be the1681watchdog over this Agency. It is not to be the cheerleader. It1682is not to make apologies for any mistakes. It is to be that go-1683between that I cannot be and my constituents cannot be, to be1684the watchdog in the safeguard of those rights. And I wanted to1685stress that to you because we have a lot of problems that I1686have seen in this town since I have been up here. Most of the1687problems are created by unelected people, people that have no1688accountability to the taxpayers or the voters, and they simply1689make rules that have significant impact on the lives of our1690citizens. We face the heat, we get the emails, but sadly, the1691unelecteds do not.1692    And in your Agency, we have had a lot of changes that have1693impacted people's lives, all made by unelecteds, whether it was1694the pistol brace rule, the frame and receiver rule, the1695``engaged in business rule,'' the bump stock rule, the1696gunsmithing changes, all made by unelected people that we then1697have to respond to our constituents and try to address. And1698some of the events that have happened that I think deserve1699scrutiny and deserve oversight on your part, whether it was1700Ruby Ridge, what happened at Waco, Fast and Furious, and the1701recent sad event in Arkansas with Bryan Malinowski. And so,1702Director, I want to give you an opportunity to address how you1703will address this kind of protecting citizens' rights while1704also making sure that we do not make the mistakes that we have1705made in the past.1706    Mr. Cekada. Good morning, sir. Thank you again for this1707opportunity. So, you are absolutely correct. It is hard for me1708to not want to come here and tell you about the great things1709that my folks do every day because I am proud of what they do,1710and, you know, if I may for a few seconds tell you that, you1711know, yesterday during a memorial at our building, I read 1911712names of ATF agents who have had different titles over the1713years who were killed in the line of duty. And I cannot forget1714the three agents, two of them that are sitting paralyzed now1715from the neck down from their injuries sustained during their1716on-duty operations, and a third that has significant1717debilitating injuries for the rest of his life from being shot1718in the head from a 5.56 rifle.1719    So, I know about violent crime. I have seen many of my1720partners shot and killed in New York City. I talked to a mother1721this morning who lost her son who was a task force officer in1722Newark, New Jersey last year. So, I stayed on with ATF when I1723could have retired in November, as I started to say, not1724because I was going to be the Director. I had no clue if that1725was going to come together or not. I stayed on because I1726believe in what we do as an Agency and the effort to combat1727violent crime, and I have seen our Agency, in the last 181728months, turn it back around to where it should be, where we1729keep that balance focused on protecting the public and also1730protecting the rights of our citizens in this country.1731    Mr. Burlison. Thank you.1732    Mr. Cekada. I am sick and tired of seeing people who did1733not commit the crimes being held accountable for violent crime1734that we did not commit. That board that was just posted, the1735one thing it did not mention on there is holding the criminals1736accountable. Not once. I get it, right? We all want to see1737violent crime reduced, but we cannot reduce violent crime1738without holding the people who commit violent crime1739accountable.1740    Mr. Burlison. Thank you.1741    Mr. Cekada. And sir, I want to guarantee you that it is my1742job that I want to keep this Agency around to hold them1743accountable, and when we do something wrong, I want to make1744sure we never do it wrong again and hold people accountable.1745    Mr. Burlison. With the limited seconds I have----1746    Mr. Cekada. Yes, sir.1747    Mr. Burlison [continuing]. I sent a letter on January 151748trying to get to the bottom of and address the problem that we1749have had after we passed, and Representative Clyde and myself1750worked very hard to eliminate the tax and the process of the1751registration of the tax stamps on suppressors and short1752barrels, and we had a disaster happen on January where we were1753not prepared. There was a flood of registrations. I sent a1754letter. I have still not received a response. How long will it1755take to receive a response?1756    And I would like to submit this to the record, Mr.1757Chairman.1758    Mr. Higgins. Without objection.1759    Mr. Cekada. Mr. Burlison, if I may. So, it was not a1760disaster, but, again, I want to be clear that, A, we were given1761this mandate in July 2025 with zero funding, made significant1762changes. We then went into a government shutdown where we were1763not able to test any of the changes that we made and wanted to1764stay on task to flip the switch, as we would call it, on1765January 1. We did so, and I will tell you, since January 1, if1766I may review my notes, as of yesterday, we received 1,258,5391767forms, and we have successfully processed 1,149,192 forms. So,1768there is a backlog but not a significant backlog----1769    Mr. Burlison. Okay.1770    Mr. Cekada [continuing]. And we are trying our best to1771knock that down.1772    Mr. Burlison. It is our intention that the process should1773just go away altogether, but I yield back. Thank you.1774    Mr. Cekada. I understand.1775    Mr. Higgins. The gentlemen yields. You are going to get him1776an answer to his letter----1777    Mr. Cekada. Yes, sir.1778    Mr. Higgins [continuing]. Correct?1779    Mr. Cekada. Yes, sir. I guarantee you.1780    Mr. Higgins. Thank you.1781    Ms. Ansari. Mr. Chair?1782    Mr. Higgins. Representative Crane from Arizona. The1783gentleman is recognized.1784    Ms. Ansari. I would just like to enter an article for the1785record if that is possible.1786    Mr. Higgins. Yes, ma'am.1787    Ms. Ansari. The article is entitled, ``Gun Crime Cases Fall1788as Agents Shift to Immigration Crackdown.'' It is very1789comprehensive, and I am very deeply concerned that our witness1790is not being honest with his answers today.1791    Mr. Higgins. Without objection, it is entered into the1792record.1793    Mr. Crane is recognized for 5 minutes for questioning.1794    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to say thank1795you, Director Cekada, for coming to testify before the1796Oversight Committee. You are the new Director of the ATF, is1797that correct?1798    Mr. Cekada. Yes, sir.1799    Mr. Crane. Not to put you on the spot, but this is1800obviously important, Director. What does the Second Amendment1801say?1802    Mr. Cekada. Sir, I would not be able to----1803    Mr. Crane. Okay.1804    Mr. Cekada [continuing]. I would not be able to recite.1805    Mr. Crane. I will read it----1806    Mr. Cekada. Please.1807    Mr. Crane [continuing]. Because I feel like it is lacking1808in this Committee room right now: ``A well-regulated militia1809being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of1810the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.'' What1811does that mean to you, Director?1812    Mr. Cekada. Well, sir, I think I am going to be careful1813with this one because I tried during my hearing to tell you1814that I--not you, but the Members of the Senate--to tell you how1815much ATF and myself respect the Second Amendment, the1816Constitution, and doing so, making sure we maintain that1817balance. There are portions of the Gun Control Act that1818obviously prohibit certain individuals who have been convicted1819of certain crimes from possessing firearms, and I think ATF1820makes sure that we keep our focus on any infringements that1821would come out of the Gun Control Act, that it stays focused on1822those persons, the law, things should be prohibited.1823    Mr. Crane. Thank you. Do you find it notable that our1824Founders put that right after the First Amendment?1825    Mr. Cekada. Sir, I apologize. My hearing is bad.1826    Mr. Crane. It is okay. Do you find it notable that our1827Founding Fathers put the Second Amendment right after the First1828Amendment?1829    Mr. Cekada. Yes, sir.1830    Mr. Crane. Why do you believe that our Founders wanted to1831give the citizens the right to defend themselves?1832    Mr. Cekada. I think at the time, in particular, the1833citizenry did not have a guarantee that the government would1834protect them, and they wanted to have the opportunity to1835protect themselves against a tyrannical government.1836    Mr. Crane. Bingo. I am glad you said that because a lot of1837people, when they think about the Second Amendment, they really1838do not look at the context of when it was written and the fact1839that our Founders had just fought against a government. Is that1840correct?1841    Mr. Cekada. Yes, sir.1842    Mr. Crane. Thank you. I just want to make sure that, you1843know, we are on the same page on that. Have you noticed that my1844Democrat colleagues today have focused on the influence and1845allegiances of yourself and the ATF to the NRA, Gun Owners of1846America, and firearms manufacturers have on you guys? Have you1847noticed that?1848    Mr. Cekada. Yes, sir.1849    Mr. Crane. Did you notice, though, that none of them asked1850you about your allegiance and the influence that the1851Constitution has on you and other members of the ATF?1852    Mr. Cekada. Yes, sir.1853    Mr. Crane. Why do you think that is, Director?1854    Mr. Cekada. Well, sir, I will give you my opinion. Well,1855sir, I think that the folks that--well, the one gentleman that1856had the discussion with me, in particular, did not want to look1857back at the last Administration when that Administration1858carried out verbatim exactly what the President asked of them.1859And I worked with both some of the members that are sitting1860here behind me and the members from the NRA, NSSF, GOA, whoever1861would talk to me in the last Administration as well. And I was1862not demonized then, but I am being demonized now because I am1863not falling in line with what was perceived to be good today.1864    I think that is part of the problem that we have here. We1865should be focusing on the criminals, not each other. We are not1866the people that are killing folks in our streets, and we are1867very close to solving that problem when we want to. I see it1868being done over and over, and I have seen it for the last 301869years. When we hold the criminals accountable, crime goes down,1870and I will tell you the last Administration, one of the first1871steps that I saw come out of DOJ was a letter that went out to1872all law enforcement personnel telling us to not charge anyone1873with any statute that carries a minimum mandatory sentence1874because they did not want to see anyone put in prison for a1875long time. That is not the way to solve violent crime. I am1876sorry.1877    Mr. Crane. I want to bring up a specific case to you. This1878one involved a gentleman named Patrick Tate Adamiak. He was a1879Navy vet. He was honorably discharged. Mr. Tate is a nonviolent1880offender, and the items involved in his case were incapable of1881firing and historically treated as exempt from the Federal1882firearm regulation under 27 C.F.R. and 478.11. He has been1883incarcerated since October 21, 2022, serving a 20-year Federal1884sentence, and I and many of my colleagues believe are1885disproportionately severe for a case centered on regulatory1886interpretation rather than harmful conduct. Will you commit to1887having your Agency look into this case and see if anything can1888be done to address this miscarriage of justice?1889    Mr. Cekada. Sir, I just would like to let you know we have1890been in contact with Mr. Adamiak's attorney, we have looked at1891some of the evidence, and we are working with DOJ. I will tell1892you, I understand DOJ is looking at the case as well for re-1893sentencing scheduled in June. I do not know the specific facts1894on the DOJ side, but we are working on that as well.1895    Mr. Crane. Thank you, sir. I yield back.1896    Mr. Higgins. The gentlemen yields. Mr. Clyde from Georgia1897is recognized for 5 minutes for questioning.1898    Mr. Clyde. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Director1899Cekada, for appearing before us today. First, congratulations1900on your Senate confirmation. I consider your leadership to be a1901new era of respect for the Second Amendment, and I have greatly1902appreciated our interactions to date, and I look forward to a1903continuing relationship with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,1904and Firearms and the Department of Justice as well.1905    I will try and keep my comments pretty tailored to the1906Tiahrt Amendments because that is what this hearing is about.1907The Tiahrt Amendments are a series of appropriation riders, and1908I am on the Appropriations Committee, to the annual ATF and FBI1909budgets, included in some form since 2003, that prohibit the1910ATF from disclosing the contents of the National Trace Center1911or records collected from Federal firearms licensees, except1912for legitimate law enforcement purposes. This trace data1913includes the chain of ownership and the sale from point of1914manufacture. Public release of such data risks exposing1915undercover officers or other law enforcement personnel to1916criminal reprisal. One reason the Tiahrt Amendment has long1917been supported by the Fraternal Order of Police is that exact1918reason. Its release can also expose the identities and1919locations of law-abiding firearms retailers, subjecting small1920businesses to name-and-shame campaigns by anti-Second Amendment1921advocacy groups.1922    Unfortunately, in the past, ATF has violated this important1923protection on numerous occasions. Most recently in 2024, the1924Biden Administration's release--or excuse me, ATF released1925sensitive trace data in response to a FOIA request by gun1926control organizations despite the Tiahrt Amendment's1927superseding FOIA having been enacted after it. For the first1928time ever, this release included the names of Federal firearms1929licensees, including my own business, making me, my business,1930its employees, a victim of this illegal activity. So,1931thankfully under your leadership, Director, the Trump1932Administration has ended its unjust war on unlawful gun owners1933and firearms businesses, but now it is the time for1934accountability, sir.1935    Director Cekada, does ATF believe that the Tiahrt protects1936firearm trace information from disclosure under FOIA?1937    Mr. Cekada. I think that is what the intention is. Yes,1938sir.1939    Mr. Clyde. Okay. Does the unlawful disclosure of sensitive1940trace data in violation of the Tiahrt Amendment pose a risk to1941legitimate law enforcement investigations?1942    Mr. Cekada. It can. Yes, sir.1943    Mr. Clyde. All right. What policies or guidance, if any,1944does ATF have now in place to ensure that Tiahrt material is1945not disclosed to the public?1946    Mr. Cekada. The current policy would ensure that any1947material protected by Tiahrt to include that request that would1948come under FOIA is not released and protected. Again, sir, as I1949mentioned earlier, my apologies on behalf of ATF for the1950inadvertent mistakes we made, but moving forward, you know,1951barring a mistake that truly is a mistake, people would be held1952accountable. There is obviously a process that we undergo1953conducting an investigation, but I will give you an example. I1954have had a leak from an agent that came out during the Charlie1955Kirk case. That person is being recommended for termination. We1956are not playing around with anyone that would follow a path on1957their own versus one that is the legal path that ATF follows1958every day. So, if anyone is proven to actually intentionally1959and willfully leaked anything that they should not have given1960to someone under Tiahrt, they will be held accountable.1961    Mr. Clyde. Well, thank you. Now, we have already talked1962about the GOA FOIA release being accidental, but this other1963release back in 2023 that talked about Federal firearms1964licensees, has anyone been held accountable for that?1965    Mr. Cekada. So, that one, sir, I think that is the one that1966your business was under as well.1967    Mr. Clyde. It is.1968    Mr. Cekada. That one was done under Director Dettelbach,1969under his leadership and time, so none of his team is here. His1970team either left with him or some were terminated by this1971Administration. Everyone else here at ATF was not part of those1972decisions, and in, I believe it was August 2025, we paused the1973DL2 program, which, frankly, the intention of the DL2 program1974was not to put out those names publicly. What that was supposed1975to be was letters to a Federal firearms licensee that were1976supposed to be kept private to let the Federal firearms1977licensee know that, hey, your business resulted in X number of1978transactions, and some of those transactions had a very short1979time to crime.1980    None of that means that the Federal firearms licensee or1981their business were in some part of a conspiracy with a straw1982purchaser or a trafficker. It means that, hey, you may have1983been targeted by someone who could be a straw purchaser and1984they purchased a firearm. It was meant to engage interaction1985between ATF and the Federal firearms licensee to prevent them1986from being victimized by traffickers.1987    Mr. Clyde. Thank you. I have one more quick question for1988you, and this has to do with the out-of-business records. In1989the Firearm Owners Protection Act, under amendments to Section1990926, help me understand. I understand that the OBR right now is1991recording transactions, 4473s, through optical scanning, about1992four per second, et cetera, when I went to visit ATF. But yet1993in the Firearm Owners Protection Act, it says, ``No such rule1994or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the1995Firearm Owners Protection Act may require that records required1996to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the1997contents of such records be recorded or transferred to a1998facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or1999any state or political subdivision thereof.''2000    Help me understand the optical recording of these 4473s.2001Now, you can have the 4473s. You can search them. All right.2002Help me understand how that is not violating this section right2003here.2004    Mr. Cekada. Yes. Again, sir, from our perspective, and it2005is something that I have been dealing with for years, and if,2006you know, Congress, the House and the Senate, decide that this2007is something that cannot be done, then we would have to change,2008but the bottom line is we do not have the space for it. I think2009we are receiving somewhere in the area of a million records.2010    Mr. Clyde. You do receive a lot.2011    Mr. Cekada. Yes. So, this program was initiated before Rob2012Cekada was any sort of supervisor at ATF, and this is the way2013we have dealt with it. Even with the optical scanning, again,2014which only gives us very limited access to the serial number,2015that still leaves us with massive amounts of paper records that2016we have to sort through and try to find a way to be able to2017search through in a rapid manner when we do get those trace2018requests from our state and local law enforcement partners in2019connection with the violent crime they are investigating.2020    Mr. Clyde. Well, thank you, Director. I appreciate you2021being here. I look forward to your leadership in ATF and your2022team as well, and with that, I yield back, Mr. Chair.2023    Mr. Higgins. The gentlemen yields. Ms. Boebert is2024recognized for 5 minutes for questioning.2025    Ms. Boebert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr.2026Cekada, for being here.2027    Mr. Director, the DOJ and ATF announced sweeping proposed2028rulemakings immediately following your confirmation--2029congratulations, by the way--and if finalized, how do you2030expect these new rules to improve the landscape for lawful gun2031owners?2032    Mr. Cekada. Good morning, ma'am. Thank you for your2033question. I think in a nutshell, the goal was to modernize the2034rules to provide for clarity, to remove ambiguity, and also to2035be in line with the law. The stabilizing brace rule, in2036particular, through litigation in numerous courts, basically2037was vacated in numerous areas, and ultimately our rule was not2038in line with the law. So, some of the rules that we pushed2039forward were to get in line with the law because, again, ATF2040regulations should not say one thing and the law or the courts2041say another, so that was some of our intention.2042    For example, one of the regulations mentioned, I believe,2043by Representative Clyde, was the dual-use barrels. So, for many2044years, that was an unwritten rule that ATF allowed for the2045industry to utilize or repurpose barrels from firearms that2046were demilitarized and may have been marked as full auto or2047rated for full auto. Because a barrel is made of a heavier2048gauge metal does not make that barrel a full auto firearm----2049    Ms. Boebert. Mm-hmm.2050    Mr. Cekada [continuing]. Just because you put a heavier2051gauge barrel on a semiautomatic firearm. So, there were things2052like that that were inconsistent for America's gun owners and2053the industry, and ATF, again, should not be taking sides in2054this. We should just provide that clarity on the regulatory2055side so that everybody understands what the law states.2056    Ms. Boebert. Thank you, Director, and you answered some of2057my other questions in there. So, moving on, can you explain why2058the ATF has in the past repeatedly violated the Tiahrt2059Amendment, including instances of improper disclosure of trace2060data through FOIA responses and other means?2061    Mr. Cekada. Yes, ma'am. So, I will speak to the instances2062that I have been discussing this morning. Most specifically, in20632024 under the last Administration, there was an inadvertent2064release, and we determined it was inadvertent through our own2065investigation and determined we had, frankly, an inadequate2066program that was used to redact information when we were2067responding to FOIA. Our FOIA staff was understaffed, and that2068release was completely marked for redaction and required a2069person to hit that last command to fully redact. They never did2070it.2071    Ms. Boebert. And what disciplinary actions were taken2072against the employees that were responsible----2073    Mr. Cekada. There----2074    Ms. Boebert [continuing]. For these breaches?2075    Mr. Cekada. I am sorry, ma'am. For those specific employees2076as to the incident I just referred to, it was determined that2077there was no malicious intent or intention to do that, so there2078was no disciplinary action. It was actually action against the2079Agency to go out and buy a better program that would prevent2080any of our employees from inadvertently not completing that2081redaction attempt.2082    Ms. Boebert. Yes. So, Director, the Tiahrt Amendment, as2083you know, was enacted to protect the privacy of law-abiding gun2084owners and Federal firearms licenses from harassment, name-and-2085shame campaigns, and frivolous lawsuits. How does the ATF2086justify actions that appear to circumvent this congressional2087protection?2088    Mr. Cekada. So, ma'am, we have discussed some of these, and2089some of these were conducted under the last Administration----2090    Ms. Boebert. Correct.2091    Mr. Cekada [continuing]. Specifically under Director2092Dettelbach and his team. Those folks are no longer here,2093neither is the Director, and obviously, we have taken steps to2094make sure that we keep our folks in compliance. I have been in2095full command of ATF basically since April of last year, so2096since that timeline and under the President Trump's Second2097Amendment Executive Order, we have done everything in our power2098to look at every internal policy, every regulation, any2099proposed rule, current or in the past, to ensure that we keep2100public safety paramount, but we maintain that balance of2101protecting and upholding the Second Amendment as well.2102    Ms. Boebert. And do you see the Tiahrt Amendment as an2103inconvenient restriction or a vital congressional legislation2104that protects both privacy and public safety?2105    Mr. Cekada. No, I see Tiahrt as a critical amendment that2106protects public safety and law enforcement, and for ATF, Tiahrt2107protects one of our most vital tools in our Agency to be able2108to focus our efforts on violent crime and firearms trafficking.2109    Ms. Boebert. Director, again, thank you, and2110congratulations on your confirmation. I look forward to talking2111to you in the future. I yield.2112    Mr. Cekada. Thank you, ma'am.2113    Mr. Higgins. The gentlelady yields. Mr. Jack is recognized2114for 5 minutes for questioning.2115    Mr. Jack. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I deeply2116appreciate you convening this hearing. I think it is an2117important subject, and I appreciate your testimony, Director.2118    Just for the record, in 2022, the Bureau of Alcohol,2119Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, ATF, inadvertently sent Gun2120Owners of America a Freedom of Information Act production2121containing the unredacted personal information of gun owners.2122As we know, we have discussed this today, the subject matter of2123the FOIA request, scandalous enough, ATF's use of FBI's2124warrantless and unaccountable gun purchaser surveillance scheme2125known as NICS monitoring system, but ATF's conduct following2126its inadvertent disclosures is just as alarming. We have2127discussed that at length today. So, one of the first questions2128I have for you, Director, is under your leadership, you are2129turning a new page at ATF. Does ATF believe that Tiahrt2130protects firearm trace information from disclosure under FOIA?2131    Mr. Cekada. I believe it does protect that under FOIA as2132well.2133    Mr. Jack. And what do you believe Congress' purpose was in2134enacting that provision?2135    Mr. Cekada. I think the intent was to protect the American2136citizenry, but also to protect law enforcement, confidential2137informants that we would be using in our investigations. And2138again, for someone that has been doing law enforcement criminal2139investigative work for 34 years, I understand how critical the2140witness is, whether they are confidential informants, law2141enforcement, or the public, are. And if they are exposed2142inadvertently in any one of these cases, especially in a2143violent crime case, they are likely to be killed in those2144matters, so we want to protect everyone in these cases.2145    Mr. Jack. Has your Agency done any investigation into other2146prior releases of Tiahrt information in addition to the GOA2147matter?2148    Mr. Cekada. Sir, I have not gone back any further. The only2149thing I have been able to do in my time is, frankly, work on2150putting our Agency in the right direction. We have put in2151further restrictions as to how we handle ourselves as it2152relates to not only trace data, but also, the NICS system that2153you mentioned, the NICS alert system. I put out a memorandum in2154April 2025 where we completely revamped how we work that2155process. That is another critical tool that we use for violent2156crime and firearms trafficking investigation. That is an FBI2157tool, and that is one that is protected by law. And just as2158important to us as Tiahrt, we do not want any of that2159information released either because it contains a lot of the2160similar information, and we want to make sure that a critical2161tool like that remains in the hands of ATF agents for the2162purposes that we were given that access in the first place.2163    Mr. Jack. With respect to potential other releases of that2164information, do you mind providing follow-up to Congress--I2165know you said you would look back--to this Committee2166specifically?2167    Mr. Cekada. Yes, sir.2168    Mr. Jack. Thank you. And just so I understand, has ATF2169produced Tiahrt-protected trace information to any Agency or2170entity other than GOA, and if so, what and to whom?2171    Mr. Cekada. We have not that I am aware of, but if there is2172any instance, I will get back to you in writing. There have2173been releases. Mr. Biggs is not here anymore, but there was a2174release that Mr. Biggs and I spoke about, not by ATF, but one2175of the law enforcement account holders from an international2176account in Colombia, and Mr. Biggs was very upset as was his2177constituent, and we spoke in depth about that and some of the2178challenges we have in holding folks accountable. That was a law2179enforcement agency that received the information but2180transferred it to a political entity within their country, who2181then put it right out in the news. In both ATF and the State2182Department, we are in a bit of a conundrum as to what we can do2183based on the limitations of holding them accountable through2184Tiahrt.2185    Mr. Jack. I just want to note for the record, too, to your2186point, the Biden administration of ATF, the Biden ATF released2187firearm trace data naming over 1,300 firearm businesses across2188the country in response to a FOIA request, something that2189Chairman Higgins' bill, which I am proud to support, would2190address. As the regulator of the firearm industry, can you2191please speak to the impact that publicly releasing firearm2192trace data has on law-abiding members of the firearm and Second2193Amendment community?2194    Mr. Cekada. Yes. I think trace data is critical to law2195enforcement operations, state and local and Federal law2196enforcement every day, but at the same note, I think it is2197equally critical that we maintain the integrity of that2198information and keep it for law enforcement purposes. I think2199there are numerous folks that want to assemble data from those2200reports, and, frankly, data is great, right? The only problem2201with data that I have seen over 30 years, data can be2202manipulated to tell different stories with the same data. And I2203do not think it is fair to the public who have been victims of2204crimes or those members of the public who are not criminals to2205manipulate our minds with what something is saying when it is2206not actually saying that.2207    I think that there are a lot of good people that have2208suffered as a result of violent crimes, and there are a lot of2209great people that put their life at risk every day trying to2210prevent further crimes, and it is wrong of data to be used in2211that manner by either side, to be frank. We should be holding2212people accountable, and we should be truthful with what that2213data says. Those DL2 lists were not designed by me or anyone2214else to use as a name-and-shame campaign, but that is exactly2215what they were used as, and that is not what the intention was.2216    It is very easy to identify an FFL that has a very large2217business and say, well, you are responsible for violent crime2218in a community. That is just not the case. When we go into2219these FFLs, their inventories are in order. Their books are in2220order. They are always cooperative with us. As a matter of2221fact, without naming any of them, more often than not, if there2222is anything suspicious that comes to their attention, they are2223calling one of our local agents because of the relationship2224that they have developed over the years.2225    Mr. Jack. Well, I appreciate your testimony. I appreciate2226you working with GOA to resolve that matter. Aiden and JP are2227great guys.2228    I also, Mr. Chairman, want to close by applauding my2229colleague in the front dais, Mr. Clyde. I do not think there is2230a greater, and I want everyone from Georgia watching to know, a2231greater advocate for the Second Amendment than Mr. Clyde. I2232have learned a lot from him in my first term, so I am proud to2233serve alongside you, my friend, and, Mr. Chairman, I am deeply2234appreciative of you convening this hearing. Thank you. I yield2235back.2236    Mr. Higgins. The gentlemen, yields.2237    In closing, I want to thank our witness for your testimony2238today. And does the Ranking Member have closing comments or2239statements?2240    Ms. Lee. No, sir.2241    Mr. Higgins. The Ranking Member declines. I recognize2242myself for a couple of closing remarks.2243    I thank Director Cekada very much, sincerely, for appearing2244before us today. You had an incredibly busy schedule running2245the Agency for nine or ten months, and then being nominated as2246Director and going through a prolonged confirmation process2247that we anticipated would be a month or so. It turned into2248three or four months, and you were a gentleman throughout, and2249appearing before this Committee today, honored your promise to2250do so. And let me close by saying that the task that you are2251set to perform is crucial for our country, for the maintenance2252of our protected Second Amendment rights, and for the2253protection of the citizenry that we are sworn to serve.2254    Firearms in America are arguably the most heavily regulated2255item in the country, and the laws are incredibly complex, and I2256feel confident that you and your team are up to the task. I do2257look forward to working with your office, sir, on H.R. 1698,2258the Law Enforcement Protection and Privacy Act, which we have2259discussed. I look forward to adding any sections that can2260enhance the effectiveness of that legislation as we attempt to2261move it through Congress.2262    With that, and without objection, all Members are reminded2263they have five legislative days within which to submit2264materials and additional written questions for the witness,2265which will be forwarded to the witness.2266    If there is no further business, and without objection, the2267Subcommittee stands adjourned.2268    [Whereupon, at 11:58 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]22692270                          [all]