Hearings to examine the nomination of Linda McMahon, of Connecticut, to be Secretary of Education.

1[Senate Hearing 119-22]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                                                         S. Hrg. 119-2256                      NOMINATION OF LINDA MCMAHON7                              TO SERVE AS8                         SECRETARY OF EDUCATION910=======================================================================1112                                HEARING1314                                 OF THE1516                    COMMITTEE ON HEALTH, EDUCATION,17                          LABOR, AND PENSIONS1819                          UNITED STATES SENATE2021                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2223                             FIRST SESSION2425                                   ON2627         EXAMINING THE NOMINATION OF LINDA MCMAHON, OF CONNECTICUT,28                        TO BE SECRETARY OF EDUCATION2930                               __________3132                           FEBRUARY 13, 20253334                               __________3536Printed for the use of the Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions3738                [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3940        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov4142                              ______4344                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE454659-491 PDF                WASHINGTON : 20264748          COMMITTEE ON HEALTH, EDUCATION, LABOR, AND PENSIONS4950                BILL CASSIDY, M.D., Louisiana, Chairman51RAND PAUL, M.D., Kentucky            BERNIE SANDERS (I), Vermont,52SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine                  Ranking Member53LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska               PATTY MURRAY, Washington54MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma           TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin55ROGER MARSHALL, M.D., Kansas         CHRISTOPHER MURPHY, Connecticut56TIM SCOTT, South Carolina            TIM KAINE, Virginia57JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri                MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire58TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama            JOHN HICKENLOOPER, Colorado59JIM BANKS, Indiana                   ED MARKEY, Massachusetts60JON HUSTED, Ohio                     ANDY KIM, New Jersey61ASHLEY MOODY, Florida                LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware62                                     ANGELA ALSOBROOKS, Maryland6364                Amanda Lincoln, Majority Staff Director65           Danielle Janowski, Majority Deputy Staff Director66                Warren Gunnels, Minority Staff Director67               Zain Rizvi, Minority Deputy Staff Director6869                            C O N T E N T S7071                              ----------7273                               STATEMENTS7475                      THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 20257677                                                                   Page7879                           Committee Members8081Cassidy, Hon. Bill, Chairman, Committee on Health, Education,82  Labor, and Pensions, Opening statement.........................     183Sanders, Hon. Bernie, Ranking Member, U.S. Senator from the State84  of Vermont, Opening statement..................................     38586                                Witness8788McMahon, Hon. Linda, Stamford, CT................................     889    Prepared statement...........................................     99091                          ADDITIONAL MATERIAL9293Statements, articles, publications, letters, etc.94Baldwin, Hon. Tammy:95    Research studies of private school vouchers in Louisiana,96      Indiana, Ohio, and Washington, DC..........................    5397Sanders, Hon. Bernie:98    Letters Opposing the Nomination of Linda McMahon to serve as99      Secretary of Education.....................................   265100Cassidy, Hon. Bill:101    Letters Supporting the Nomination of Linda McMahon to serve102      as Secretary of Education..................................   345103104                      NOMINATION OF LINDA MCMAHON105                              TO SERVE AS106                         SECRETARY OF EDUCATION107108                              ----------109110                      Thursday, February 13, 2025111112                                       U.S. Senate,113       Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,114                                                    Washington, DC.115    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:01 a.m., in116room 562, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Bill Cassidy,117Chairman of the Committee, presiding.118119    Present: Senators Cassidy [presiding], Collins, Murkowski,120Marshall, Scott, Hawley, Tuberville, Banks, Husted, Moody,121Britt, Sanders, Murray, Baldwin, Murphy, Kaine, Hassan,122Hickenlooper, Markey, Kim, Blunt Rochester, and Alsobrooks.123124                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CASSIDY125126    The Chair. The Senate Committee on Health, Education,127Labor, and Pensions will please come to order. Ms. McMahon, I128appreciate you coming before the Committee today.129130    You were very successful leading the Small Business131Administration in President Trump's first term and I am glad132the President has given you another opportunity to serve. You133have enormous challenges.134135    At the K through 12 level, students who were behind before136the pandemic are even further behind now. According to the137latest National Assessment of Educational Progress, or NAEP,138reading scores among fourth and eighth graders declined five139points since the pandemic. In math, fourth grade scores fell by140five points, and eighth grade scores fell by eight points.141142    The failures of the traditional K through 12 schools are143leading more families to try other education options proven to144help students succeed like charter schools. The Biden-Harris145Department of Education tried to take these options away from146families.147148    They passed onerous regulations making it harder for149charter schools to apply for Federal grants, impeding their150ability to grow and to serve more children. The Department of--151the Department's bloated bureaucracy failed to improve the152Nation's education system and quite likely made it worse.153154    There has been a lot of talk about dismantling the155Department of Education, and I am sure that you will be asked156this today. But before we begin, I want to explain what the157Department of Education actually does.158159    On average, only about 10 percent of public funds that go160toward educating a child comes from the Federal taxpayer. That161is only 10 percent. 90 percent comes from state and local162government.163164    While the Federal Government accounts for a small minority165of the funding, it is responsible for the vast majority of166bureaucracy and red tape preventing communities from improving167educational success.168169    I am hearing from schools across the country that they have170stopped going after Federal competitive grant funding because171it is not worth the hoops and red tape the Department of172Education has placed on those dollars.173174    If schools are not eager to apply for competitive grants to175improve operations, something is wrong and something should176change. It is not only the K through 12 system failing177students. Colleges and universities are not preparing students178to succeed in the modern workforce.179180    The cost of higher education are quickly outpacing the181value of the degrees students receive. According to a182nonpartisan analysis, 23 percent of bachelor's degree programs183and 43 percent of master's degrees have a negative return on184investment.185186    Too many students leave college woefully unprepared for the187workforce after being saddled with overwhelming debt they188cannot pay off. Under the last Administration, the Department189of Education's only answer was to transfer hundreds of billions190of dollars, that is hundreds of billions, in student debt from191those who willingly took it on to supposedly advance their192life--they transferred it to Americans who either chose not to193go to college or had already paid their way through school.194195    To implement these schemes, the Department dramatically196increased the scope and authority of the student loan financing197program, clearly outside of what Congress previously intended.198Your experience overseeing SBA loans will be a great asset as199the Department looks to reform a very broken student loan200program.201202    We have also seen rampant anti-Semitism on college203campuses, leading to attacks and harassment of Jewish students.204I am pleased to see the Trump administration has already205launched investigations, and I look forward to working with206you, presuming that you are confirmed.207208    The status quo is not working. The educational system is209failing our children. The Biden-Harris Department of Education210stood in the way of students' success. Transformative change of211the educational establishment is needed.212213    The Department needs to get out of the way of states and214local communities who are best positioned to actually address215students' needs. We need to empower parents, so they have a216voice in their child's education. This includes increasing217access to school choice, perhaps also called parental choice,218so families can give their child every opportunity to succeed219in the classroom and beyond.220221    With President Trump in office and Ms. McMahon's222leadership, we have a real opportunity to accomplish this.223Thank you again, Ms. McMahon for coming before this Committee224and continue the discussion on how we can work together to225improve students' success and get our education system back on226track.227228    With that, I yield to Senator Sanders, the Ranking Member.229230                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SANDERS231232    Senator Sanders. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mrs.233McMahon, nice to see you again. Let me begin by thanking234teachers all over this country. This is a very difficult time235to be a teacher.236237    Talking to teachers in Vermont, and I think teachers all238over the country, what they are telling me as they are spending239a lot of their time not only teaching math and English, but240dealing with the emotional needs of kids, because among other241things, our kids are struggling in many, many ways.242243    It is a tough time to be a teacher, and I want to thank the244teachers very much for the extraordinary work that they are245doing, especially for some of the most vulnerable kids in our246Country.247248    Way back in 1863, as we recall from our history books,249Abraham Lincoln was in Gettysburg and he looked out on a field250where soldiers by the thousands had just died in the struggle251against slavery and he talked about the need to maintain a252government of the people, by the people, and for the people.253254    That was a short but very powerful Gettysburg Address. And255I think in this country today, there is a growing fear that256instead of having a government of the people, by the people,257and for the people, we are looking at a government of258billionaires, by billionaires, and for billionaires whose job259is not to improve life for ordinary people, but to make the260people on top even wealthier.261262    In the midst of massive income and wealth inequality with263three people owning more wealth than the bottom half of264American society, the Republicans in the House yesterday265introduced a budget resolution that would provide massive tax266breaks to the people on top and they would pay for those tax267breaks for billionaires by cutting Medicaid, education, and268programs that working families throughout this country269desperately need. That is exactly the wrong thing to do.270271    At a time when millions and millions of working families272are struggling, our job is to protect those families and not273worry about the billionaires who have never had it so good. But274it is not just cuts in Medicaid, as devastating as that would275be. We are looking at, if the Republicans get their way,276massive cuts to education.277278    I should also say that the people who are trying to279privatize Social Security, privatize Medicare, privatize280Medicaid, privatize the Veterans Administration are precisely281the same people who are trying to privatize public education in282America. We must not allow that to happen.283284    In America, we must not allow our educational system to285become a two tier system, a system which says that if you have286the money, you are going to get help from the Federal287Government, you are going to get a voucher to send your kid to288a school that may cost $50,000, $60,000 a year, while the289public schools will end up being segregated not just by race290but by class.291292    Most families in America do not have $40,000, $50,000,293$60,000 a year to send their kids to private schools and it is294absurd to provide public money to make that possible. Our job295is not to take away money from public schools to give it to296private schools. It is to strengthen public education in297America.298299    Further, President Trump has talked about abolishing the300Department of Education. Yes, I think everybody on this301Committee wants to see us go after waste and bureaucracy in302every agency of government, but what we must understand is that303when we talk about the Department of Education, they are304providing vital resources for 26 million children in this305country who live in high poverty school districts.306307    Is it the responsibility of the Federal Government to say308that every kid in America, whether you are poor, middle class,309rich, gets a quality education? It is. And that is what a lot310of what the Department of Education does.311312    Department of Education provides millions of public school313students who have disabilities, motional problems, physical314problems, provides them with help. It provides Pell grants and315other important financial assistance that over 7 million low316income students need to get a higher education.317318    The goal is not to abolish the Department of Education. It319is to make it more effective and to make sure that it addresses320the educational needs in this country. Mr. Chairman, in my321view, we need a Secretary of Education who understands that in322the wealthiest nation in the history of the world, we should323have the best educational system on this planet, from childcare324to graduate school.325326    We need a Secretary of Education who understands that if we327are going to attract the best and the brightest to the teaching328profession, you know what? We have to pay teachers the kinds of329salaries that they deserve, which is why I have introduced330legislation that says no teacher in America should earn less331than $60,000 a year.332333    We need a Secretary of Education who understands that334schools do not end at 2.30 p.m., at 3.00 p.m.. We need strong335afterschool programs. We need strong summer programs. We need a336Secretary of Education who understands that we have got to337invest in mental health.338339    We need a Secretary of Education who understands that we340have got to fully fund the Individuals with Disabilities341Education Act. So there are a lot of questions I have for Mrs.342McMahon. I very much appreciate her being here and look forward343to the discussion we will have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.344345    The Chair. Thank you, Senator Sanders.346347    Now to introduce Ms. McMahon, we will start with Senator348Scott.349350    Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ranking351Member. Thank you, Committee Members for allowing me to have an352opportunity to talk about my good friend Linda McMahon.353354    I will say that one of the things I love about the Ranking355Member is his passion about the things he cares deeply about.356He and I don't agree on the conclusions or the solutions, but I357do believe that he is a thoughtful person who cares about the358issues, and I hope that doesn't hurt your reelection bid.359360    [Laughter.]361362    Senator Scott. Let me say this, I am not a billionaire.363Never have been. Likely never will be. But I am a kid who grew364up in a single parent household mired in poverty whose mother365worked two jobs trying to keep the lights on. I went to four366different elementary schools by the fourth grade.367368    When I think about the issue of education, I think about369how in the world did we ever get to a meritocracy where the370vast majority of the kids today are going to segregated schools371that are failing those kids. 13 schools in Maryland where the372average kid--no, I am sorry, 99 percent of the kids cannot373perform at grade level.374375    I think about Chicago on the South side, where I spent a376lot of time, where 95 percent of the kids cannot perform at377grade level. I think about Charleston, South Carolina, my378hometown, where 60 plus percent of African American males don't379go to college.380381    I think about the quagmire pit of failure that is382consistently the case in inner city schools across America. You383talk about the resegregation of America's public schools. It384has already happened. It is happening right now. Our public385education spends $850 billion to disappoint families, millions386of families, across this country.387388    10 percent of the resources come from the Federal389Government, and yet 80 to 90 percent of all the rules that390suppress performance come from Washington. The average employee391at the Department of Education--these numbers are a few years392ago, and these, unfortunately, aren't part of my speech.393394    Bernie changed my speech for me. It is about $106,000 where395the average teacher makes $55,000. Those numbers are four, 5396years old. But here is my point. My point is the simple point.397I am a guy who understands the weight of a poor education398system and the benefit of a good education system because I399have experienced both.400401    I chose to introduce Linda not because I have an affinity402for billionaires--though I might now, actually. Because I have403a passion for quality that changes the trajectory of poor kids'404lives permanently. I can't think of a more important civil405rights issue today than public education and the education of406our kids.407408    I can't think of a better person to take on that challenge409than someone that I have confidence when she was the410Administrator of the SBA. I can't think of someone better to411take on this challenge than someone that took a regional412company, WWE, and made it into the global powerhouse that it is413today--than the Co-Founder, Chief Executive, Linda McMahon.414415    I can't think of someone better to do the job than someone416who served on our own State Board of Education, who was a417trustee at Sacred Heart University, and who led the policy418initiatives at the America First Policy Institute.419420    That would be Linda McMahon. I can tell you that there are421a lot of questions I would like to answer, but I don't have422time. But I can tell you this, for the poorest kids in our423Country, disillusioned about the American dream, the answers424they are looking for rarely come from Washington.425426    With all of our good intentions, the Department of427Education has simply failed the poorest kids in the United428States of America, the greatest nation on the planet. To turn429that around, we need someone who has already succeeded in430business and in government. And let me just close with this.431432    The Department of Education doesn't educate kids. It is a433Federal agency. Local communities and local teachers educate434kids. Our Department of Education is a Federal behemoth that435needs to focus on getting more money in the hands of more436students so that they have a better chance.437438    Yes, I do believe that competition makes your quality go up439and your cost go down. Charter schools prove that. Private440schools prove that. And finally, Pell Grants. Pell Grants take441public dollars to private schools. Unfortunately for black kids442today, the vast majority won't have a Pell Grant.443444    Why? Because if you don't graduate from high school, if you445don't have proficiency in reading, math, and Science, the446likelihood of you going to college is zero. Let's improve our K447through 12 system so that more of America's poor, rural kids448and inner city kids both have the experience I had of realizing449their version of the American dream.450451    The Chair. Thank you, Senator Scott. Very powerful.452453    Senator Britt.454455    Senator Britt. Well, that was amazing. Thank you. My456colleague nailed it. Chair Cassidy, Ranking Member Sanders, and457Members of this Committee, I am honored to join you today to458introduce President Trump's nominee for Secretary of Education,459my friend Linda McMahon.460461    It is clear that our current education system isn't462working. We have the status quo and that is actually failing463our kids. As you mentioned, Mr. Chairman, the latest NAEP464scores show that students' reading and math scores are down in465almost every single state, to the point where only 30 percent466of eighth graders are meeting reading proficiency levels.467468    The status quo in education just hasn't failed students. It469has failed parents just like me. And very respectfully, Mr.470Ranking Member, the America that you just described, the one471that you are fearful will be created, it already exists.472473    Our students deserve better. Our parents deserve better. We474have to do something different in order to achieve a different475result. For far too long, the Department of Education has476catered to far left bureaucrats at the expense of moms and477dads.478479    It has pushed for school closures, removed parental rights480from the equation, promoted radical ideologies in the481classroom, and supported allowing men and boys to play in women482and girls sports. Enough is enough.483484    We need a change agent at the Department of Education, and485that change agent is Linda McMahon. She is the perfect antidote486to what is wrong with education in this country. Linda has an487immensely successful track record as a business executive, as a488leader of a government agency, and at the America First489policy--as an America First policy advocate.490491    She is not just an overwhelmingly qualified nominee for492Secretary of Education, but a nominee who can make a real493difference at the Department that sorely needs it. She is also494a grandmother of six with a personal stake in the quality of495our education system.496497    She understands how important it is that our kids learn498what they are supposed to and how important it is for parents499to be empowered. I am right there with her. And that is not the500only mission that Linda will pursue at the Secretary of501Education--as the Secretary.502503    Attending a 4-year college or university is the right path504for many Americans, but it is not the only one available to505graduating high schoolers and Linda will ensure that students506know that.507508    Linda led efforts to empower the American worker at AFPI.509And I am confident that she will make aligning our education510system and our workforce systems a priority at the Department511of Education.512513    That means strengthening 21st century skills training and514job preparedness, bridging the gap between technical school515programs and industries, and expanding apprenticeships and516credentialing programs.517518    Linda McMahon is someone who knows how to reform our519education system, so it actually prepares our kids for the520future, while also empowering parents to make decisions that521affect their children's lives. She has the experience as an522executive. She already demonstrated her immense ability to get523the government out of the way as head of the Small Business524Administration.525526    She knows both K-12 and higher education, as my527distinguished colleague Senator Scott said, in serving on the528Connecticut State Board of Education and the Sacred Heart529University Board. She was on that since 2004.530531    Her confirmation as Secretary of Education will be a532monumental step toward preserving the American dream and making533a bright future possible for the next generation of Americans.534Let's put parents in the driver's seat.535536    Let's return to the fundamentals of the classroom learning537and teach kids the skills they need to actually achieve their538goals. Let's put education in the hands of states, not539unaccountable Federal bureaucrats.540541    For our kids' sake, let's confirm my friend, Linda McMahon.542Thank you, Mr. Chairman.543544    The Chair. Thank you, Senator Britt. Ms. McMahon, now for545your opening statement. And you are welcome to introduce your546guest.547548    Ms. McMahon. Thank you very much, Chairman Cassidy. Yes, I549would like to introduce my daughter, Stephanie McMahon, Paul550Levesque, her husband, and my son, Shane McMahon. I am so happy551to have them here and many friends from--have come from far552places, so I welcome having them here today and appreciate that553they are here.554555    [Background demonstrators.]556557    Ms. McMahon. Thank you, Chairman Cassidy, Ranking Member558Sanders, and distinguished Members of the Committee. I am559honored to have your consideration to serve as the Secretary of560the Department of Education. And I would like to thank both561Senator Scott and Britt for their introductions.562563    The Chair. Members of the audience are reminded that564disruptions will not be permitted while the Committee----565566    [technical problems]567568    We ask you to respect that, please.569570 STATEMENT OF LINDA MCMAHON TO SERVE AS SECRETARY OF EDUCATION571572    Ms. McMahon. Certainly. And I would like to thank both573Senator Scott and Britt for their introductions, and for the574opportunity to welcome my friends and family. Thank you all so575much for being here with me today.576577    I would also like to thank President Trump for his578confidence in me to lead a Department whose mission and579authority were a special focus of his campaign. He pledged to580make American education the best in the world, return education581to the states where it belongs, and free American students from582the education bureaucracy through school choice.583584    November proved that Americans overwhelmingly support the585President's vision, and I am ready to enact it. Education is586the issue that determines our national success and prepares587American workers to win the future.588589    I have been passionate about education since my earliest590college days when I studied to earn a teaching certificate.591This has continued through my business career as a Connecticut592State Board of Education member, as a university trustee, and593as the Chair of the America First Policy Institute, which594advocates for workforce development, parental choice and595accountability in higher education.596597    I am also a mother and a grandmother, and I join millions598of American parents who want better schools for our kids and599grandkids. The legacy of our Nation's leadership in education600is one that every person in this room embraces with pride.601Unfortunately, many Americans today are experiencing a system602in decline.603604    The latest scores from the Nation's report card show605achievement in K through 12 math and reading at their lowest606level in years. More than two-thirds of public colleges are607beset by violent crime on campuses every year. And most608tragically, students' suicide rates have dramatically increased609over the last two decades.610611    We can do better. We can do better for the elementary and612junior high school student by teaching basic reading and613mathematics, for the college freshmen facing censorship or614antisemitism on campus, and for parents and grandparents who615worry that their children and grandchildren are no longer616taught American values and true history.617618    In many cases, our wounds are caused by the excessive619consolidation of power in our Federal education establishment.620So what is the remedy? Fund education freedom, not government621run systems. Listen to parents, not politicians.622623    Build up careers, not college debt. Empower states, not624special interests. Invest in teachers, not Washington625bureaucrats. If confirmed as Secretary, I will work with626Congress to reorient the Department toward helping educators,627not controlling them.628629    My experience as a business owner and leader of the Small630Business Administration, as a public servant in the State of631Connecticut, and more than a decade of service as a college632trustee has taught me to put parents, teachers, and students,633not bureaucracy, first.634635    Outstanding teachers are tired of political ideology and636their curriculum and red tape on their desks, and that is why637school choice is a growing movement across the Nation. It638offers teachers and parents an alternative to classrooms that639are micromanaged from Washington, DC.640641    We should also emphasize career focused education,642especially in cutting edge STEM fields where American companies643need high skill employees. Our workers deserve more post-644secondary pathways, career aligned programs, apprenticeships,645and on the job learning. The jobs in tech, skill trades, and646health care for non-college degree holders.647648    Those who do it in college deserve transparent costs and649courses of study aligned to workforce demand. The United States650is the world leader by far in emerging technologies like AI and651blockchain, and we need to invest in American students who want652to become tech pioneers.653654    We should encourage innovative new institutions, develop655smart accountability systems, and tear down barriers to entry656so that students have real choice, and universities are not657saddling future families with insurmountable debt.658659    We must protect all students from discrimination and660harassment. And if I am confirmed, the Department will not661stand idly by while Jewish students are attacked and662discriminated against. It will stop forcing schools to let boys663and men into female sports and spaces.664665    It will protect the rights of parents to direct the moral666education of their children. The opportunity before us these667next 4 years is momentous. I look forward to working with the668Committee, our Nation's parents, teachers and students, and669education leaders from all political perspectives to build a670better future for every American learner.671672    Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak with you673today, and I look forward to your questions.674675    [The prepared statement of Ms. McMahon follows.]676                  prepared statement of linda mcmahon677    Thank you, Chairman Cassidy, Ranking Member Sanders, and the678distinguished Members of the Committee. I'm honored to have your679consideration to serve as the Secretary of the Department of Education.680681    I would like to thank both Senators Scott and Britt for their682introductions, and for the opportunity to welcome my friends and683family--thank you all so much for being here today.684685    I would also like to thank President Trump for his confidence in me686to lead a Department whose mission and authority were a special focus687of his campaign. He pledged to make American education the best in the688world, return education to the states where it belongs, and free689American students from the education bureaucracy through school choice.690November proved that Americans overwhelmingly support the President's691vision--and I am ready to enact it.692693    Education is the issue that determines our national success and694prepares American workers to win the future. I've been passionate about695education since my earliest college days, when I studied to earn a696teaching credential. This has continued through my business career as a697Connecticut State board of education member, as a university trustee,698and as the chair of the America First Policy Institute, which advocates699for workforce development, parental choice, and accountability in700higher education. Most importantly, I'm also a mother and grandmother--701and I join millions of American parents who want better schools for our702kids and grandkids.703704    The legacy of our Nation's leadership in education is one that705every person in this room embraces with pride.706707    Unfortunately, many Americans today are experiencing a system in708decline.709710    The latest scores from the Nation's Report Card show achievement in711K12 math and reading at their lowest levels since 1971, the first year712of testing. More than two thirds of public colleges are beset by713violent crime on campus every year. And most tragically, student714suicide rates have dramatically increased over the last two decades.715716    We can do better:717718        For the elementary and junior high student by teaching basic719        reading and mathematics.720721        For the college freshman facing censorship or antisemitism on722        campus.723724        For parents and grandparents who worry that their children and725        grandchildren are no longer taught American values and true726        history.727728        In many cases, our wounds are caused by the excessive729        consolidation of power in our Federal education establishment.730731    The remedy?732733        Fund education freedom, not government-run systems.734735        Listen to parents, not politicians.736737        Build up careers, not college debt.738739        Empower states, not special interests.740741        Invest in teachers, not Washington bureaucrats.742743    If confirmed as Secretary, I will work with Congress to reorient744the Department toward helping educators, not controlling them.745746    My experience as a business owner and leader of the Small Business747Administration, as a public servant in the State of Connecticut, and748more than a decade of service as a college trustee has taught me to put749parents, teachers, and students, not bureaucracy, first. Outstanding750teachers are tired of political ideology in their curriculum and red751tape on their desks. This is why school choice is a growing movement752across the Nation: it offers teachers and parents an alternative to753classrooms that are micromanaged from Washington, DC.754755    We should also emphasize career-focused education, especially in756cutting-edge STEM fields where American companies need high-skill757employees. Our workers deserve more post-secondary pathways: career-758aligned programs, apprenticeships and on-the-job learning, and jobs in759tech, skilled trades, and healthcare for non-college degree holders.760761    Those who do attend college deserve transparent costs and courses762of study aligned to workforce demand. The United States is the world763leader by far in emerging technologies like AI and blockchain--and we764need to invest in American students who want to become tech pioneers.765We should encourage innovative new institutions, develop smart766accountability systems, and tear down barriers to entry so that767students have real choice and universities are not saddling future768families with insurmountable debt.769770    We must protect all students from discrimination and harassment. If771I am confirmed, the Department will not stand idly by while Jewish772students are attacked and discriminated against. It will stop forcing773schools to let boys and men into female sports and spaces. And it will774protect the rights of parents to direct the moral education of their775children.776777    The opportunity before us these next 4 years is momentous. I look778forward to working with this Committee, our Nation's parents, teachers,779and students, and education leaders from all political perspectives to780build a better future for every American learner.781782    Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. I welcome783your questions.784                                 ______785786    The Chair. Thank you very much. I shall begin. Everybody is787rightly focused on the fact that we have a problem with reading788scores, and they have been anchored where they are for quite789some time with an incredibly high percentage of children not790reading at grade level.791792    The old kind of truism that kids learn to read by grade 3793or 4 and they read to learn thereafter. But they are not794learning to read by grade 3 or 4. So that said, dyslexia,795according to NIH kind of reviewed literature, affects 20796percent of our population.797798    Those 20 percent learn to read differently, and if their799differences are not acknowledged, then they will be among800those, almost an anchor holding reading scores down. Now, it801would just intuitively make sense to diagnose the child with802dyslexia as early as possible. Most states do not screen.803804    That said, you can see where I am going with my own805thoughts. But what would be your approach to addressing the806issue of dyslexia, which is frankly ignored? Not in a State807like New Hampshire where Governor Hassan actually put in such808programs, but in other states.809810    What would be your approach to make sure that the child who811is dyslexic is diagnosed at an early stage and receives the812intervention that she or he would need to receive?813814    Ms. McMahon. Well, thank you very much, Chairman Cassidy.815And I know this is a very sensitive subject for you, since I816believe it is your son that does have dyslexia, as you and I817discussed when I visited with you in your office.818819    The Chair. My daughter, but that is Okay.820821    Ms. McMahon. I am sorry. It is your daughter. But I822certainly very much would like to be sure that we are looking823to diagnose issues like this, like dyslexia early because we824have found that it can be turned around. So I would like to825work with you and understand how we could have a better826approach for that in our school systems.827828    The Chair. You had mentioned that you would not tolerate829the anti-Semitism that has been on the rise. What steps would830you take to make sure the backlog of anti-Semitism cases at the831Office of Civil Rights is processed and those responsible for832illegal discrimination held accountable?833834    Ms. McMahon. Senator Kennedy, I think that--Cassidy, I am835sorry. I think that by far what we saw happening on our836campuses was absolutely deplorable. Kids locked in libraries837afraid to come out.838839    Now, I believe in freedom of speech on campus, open debate,840and we should encourage that, but we cannot allow violence841happening on our campuses. That puts all students in an unsafe842place.843844    As the--if I were confirmed as the Secretary of Education,845I would want to make sure that the presidents of those846universities and those colleges are taking very strong measures847not to allow this to happen.848849    They can call in the police. They can do whatever they need850to do to set standards and to make sure those standards are851upheld. We cannot allow that kind of violence to take place on852our college campuses.853854    The Chair. There is a current backlog in the Office of855Civil Rights within the Department of Education to address856this. Do you have any specific plans about how you could help857them address that backlog?858859    Ms. McMahon. Well, I would like very much to be confirmed860and to be able to get into the Department and understand that861backlog, to talk to those lawyers who were there. And let's862focus on what we need to do to clear out that backlog, and I863look forward to doing that.864865    The Chair. As President Trump has reported--is reportedly866drafting an Executive Order requiring the Secretary of867Education to develop a plan for downsizing the Department of868Education and working with Congress to eliminate entirely, yes869or no, do you agree that since the Department was created by870Congress, it would need an act of Congress to actually close871the Department of Education?872873    Ms. McMahon. Certainly President Trump understands that we874will be working with Congress. We would like to do this right.875We would like to make sure that we are presenting a plan that I876think our Senators could get on board with and our Congress877could get on board with that would have a better functioning878Department of Education. But certainly, it does require879Congressional action.880881    The Chair. Okay. And in terms of the plans to downsize,882what would be the components of that plan that would not883require Congressional approval?884885    Ms. McMahon. Well, I do believe, Senator, that there are886Departments of Education that are established by statute. And887in those particular departments, we would have to pay888particular attention too. But long before there was a889Department of Education, we fulfilled the programs of our890educational system.891892    Are there other areas, other agencies where parts of the893Department of Education could better serve our students and our894parents on a local level? And I am really all for the895President's mission, which is to return education to the896states.897898    I believe, as he does, that the best education is closest899to the child and certainly from Washington DC.900901    The Chair. If the Department is downsized, would these902states and localities still receive the Federal funding which903they currently--[technical problems]?904905    Ms. McMahon. Yes.906907    The Chair. Okay. With that, I----908909    Ms. McMahon. It is not the President's goal to defund the910programs. It is only to have it operate more efficiently.911912    The Chair. With that, I yield to Senator Sanders.913914    Senator Sanders. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When we talk915about education, we are looking at it in a vacuum. We are916talking about the struggles that low income kids are having.917And that is true.918919    But Mrs. McMahon, you are also aware that in America we920have more income and wealth inequality than we have ever had921before. You are aware that we have the highest rate of922childhood poverty of almost any major country on Earth.923924    You are aware, I suspect, that teachers are dealing with925kids who are literally homeless. Kids who come from926dysfunctional families where there is violence. Does it concern927you in America that we are living in a society where the people928on top are doing phenomenally well while 60 percent of929Americans are living paycheck to paycheck? And how do you think930that impacts our educational system?931932    Ms. McMahon. Thank you very much, Senator, for that933question. First of all, let me say that I believe that teaching934is one of the most noble professions that we have in our935Country, and we have so many good, dedicated teachers to help936our students. I do think that we are trapping students often in937low performing schools, and that is why the President has such938a strong policy toward school choice.939940    Senator Sanders. But you will agree--I don't mean to941interrupt you. But you will agree that you can't just look at942education--the truth is that middle class, upper middle class943public schools in America generally do pretty well.944945    But if you are homeless, if you were a homeless person and946you had kids, the odds of your kids doing pretty well--and I am947just asking you, what do you think about the massive level of948income and wealth inequality, the fact that we have the highest949rate of childhood poverty? Is that something you think you950might want to pay attention to?951952    Ms. McMahon. Well, certainly, Senator, I do believe that we953want to make sure that every child in our Country has the954opportunity to have equal access to a quality education. And955the Department of Education really is not setting economic956policy in the country. We should focus on educating our957children and we should focus on it at the local level.958959    Senator Sanders. Let me ask you this. You have mentioned960correctly that we have many great teachers in America, right?961962    Ms. McMahon. Yes.963964    Senator Sanders. If you as a businesswoman wanted to965attract the best and the brightest, would you be starting them966off after they leave school maybe $50,000, $60,000 in debt with967salaries of $35,000 or $40,000.968969    Or would you say we respect--you have talked about teaching970being the noblest profession. I agree with you. Would you agree971with me, support my legislation that says no teacher in America972should earn at least $60,000 a year?973974    Ms. McMahon. Well, certainly the pay to teachers is up to975the states where those teachers reside. I do believe we should976pay our teachers fairly. They spend so much time with their977students and they should be well compensated for their job.978979    Senator Sanders. All right. But paying them fairly, nobody980in the world will disagree with you. I mean, the question is,981if teaching is a noble profession, if teaching is an important982profession should we be paying them salaries commensurate with983the value that they--of the work that they are doing? So I am984asking you a simple question, would you recommend to states, as985the leader of education in America, that teachers at least make986$60,000 a year?987988    Ms. McMahon. I would certainly recommend to states that989teachers be paid what is commensurate with the kinds of jobs990that are part of their states. Not all states have the same991living costs.992993    Not all states have the same ability to pay teachers. But994to attract really good teachers and to keep them, we should995definitely pay them commensurate with the job performance that996they are undertaking.997998    Senator Sanders. Millions of young people, low income999people, are finding it very difficult to afford to go to1000college. And they are leaving school $50,000, $100,000,1001$200,000 in debt.10021003    Pell Grant program provides assistance to over 7 million1004low income young people in this country. Can you guarantee to1005us, if you are made a Secretary of Education, that no student1006in America will lose their Pell grant as one--as that1007Department is dismantled?10081009    Ms. McMahon. Surely the defunding is not the goal here. The1010continuation of Pell Grants--I would actually even like to see1011an expansion of Pell Grants. I would like to see short term1012certificates for Pell Grants for students who aren't going on1013to 4 year universities, who could have the opportunity to use1014Pell Grants for skill based learning.10151016    Senator Sanders. What I am hearing you say is the Pell1017Grant program will continue under your Administration?10181019    Ms. McMahon. Yes.10201021    Senator Sanders. Okay. Mister--Senator Cassidy asked you an1022important question, and that is, do you agree--and let me just1023once again get your feelings on this--that if there is a1024movement to abolish the Department of Education, it has to go1025through the United States Congress?10261027    Ms. McMahon. Yes, it is set up by the U.S. Congress and we1028work with Congress. It clearly cannot be shut down without it.10291030    Senator Sanders. Thank you.10311032    The Chair. Senator Collins.10331034    Ms. McMahon. Thank you.10351036    Senator Collins. Welcome. First of all, let me say I was1037very pleased to hear your strong commitment to enforcing the1038Office of Civil Rights jurisdiction over the many incidences,1039horrible incidences of the anti-Semitism that we have seen on1040our college campuses.10411042    Among the important programs that are administered by the1043Department of Education are Title I, IDEA, TRIO programs, all1044of which have been high priorities for me. I want to briefly1045discuss those programs.10461047    Title I helps public schools that are serving low income1048students. It helps level the playing field in terms of1049resources compared to more affluent communities. In Maine, 631050percent of our public schools receive Title I funds, very1051important to our state.10521053    Second, IDEA, the Disabilities and Education Act, which1054helps children with special needs. Maine receives more than $651055million to support K through 12 students with special education1056needs.10571058    I would note that falls far short of the 40 percent that1059was promised when the legislation was passed in the 1970's.1060TRIO programs, which we have discussed, have changed the lives1061of countless first generation students who are going to college1062and come from families with no experience with higher1063education.10641065    I have seen so many success stories as a result of TRIO. So1066my question for you is how do we maintain the administration1067and oversight of these programs if we abolish or substantially1068reorganize the Department of Education?10691070    Ms. McMahon. Thank you, Senator Collins. And I know how1071passionate you are about these issues, and I enjoyed meeting1072with you in your office and talking about these various things,1073especially I think the TRIO program which we both agreed was1074just hit a terrible blow just by regulation with some of the1075students who were applying, their applications were rejected1076simply because of spacing on a form.10771078    Senator Collins. Right.10791080    Ms. McMahon. That kind of regulatory control just cannot1081stand. That is just impossible. The Title I programs that you1082have been--discussed will continue to be appropriated through1083Congress. Today, they go directly to the State Departments of1084Education and then are distributed to the districts.10851086    Not looking to defund or reduce any of those amounts. IDEA1087is the same. But might it be better served in a different1088agency? I am not sure. It started at HEW, and the concerns for1089disabilities and health issues with students may very well rest1090better within an agency that has more oversight of all of1091those.10921093    I think if I am confirmed to be able to get in and assess1094programs how they can have the best oversight possible, how we1095can really take the bureaucracy out of education and focus on1096teaching our children to read and to do math, and to appreciate1097our history, is certainly my goal and would be my goal as the1098Secretary of Education.10991100    Senator Collins. Thank you. On Monday, the Administration1101announced that the Department of Education was going to1102terminate 89 contracts from the Institute of Education1103Sciences. They were worth $881 million.11041105    As well as terminating 29 training grants. This week, my1106office heard from a former teacher from Oakland, Maine who has1107developed a high impact tutoring model, and it is currently1108being used in 12 schools in Maine alone, and she has one of the1109grant applications pending to more thoroughly evaluate the1110impact of this model on the students' outcomes.11111112    She is worried that it is now going to be in jeopardy due1113to these sudden cuts. Considering the poor reading and math1114scores reported by NAEP, and that unfortunately includes poor1115scores in my home state, shouldn't the Department of Education1116continue to collect data and evaluate outcomes rather than to1117halt these activities so that you can help states know what1118works?11191120    Ms. McMahon. Well, thank you, Senator. And it is my goal,1121if I am confirmed, to get in and assist these kinds of1122programs, because I am not sure yet what the impact of all of1123those programs are.11241125    I know that there are many worthwhile programs that we1126should keep, but I am not--I am not yet apprised of them. I1127want to study them. I would like to get back and talk to you1128more and to work with you. I look forward to working with this1129Committee and all of Congress to make sure we can deliver for1130our education.11311132    [Background protestors.]11331134    Senator Collins. Thank you. I appreciate your responses.1135Thank you.11361137    [Background demonstrators.]11381139    Senator Murkowski. The Committee will come to order.11401141    Senator Murray.11421143    Senator Murray. Thank you. Ms. McMahon, Elon Musk's DOGE1144staffers have reportedly set up camp at the Department of1145Education.11461147    They have already been given access to highly sensitive1148student data and have already started holding back money that1149Congress decided on a bipartisan basis was needed to help our1150schools and students.11511152    We are also hearing, about an Executive Order coming any1153day that will seek to dismantle the Department of Education.1154These are bipartisan laws. You indicated that you understood1155that, that the Congress has passed these laws, but a lot of1156turmoil is happening. You heard it from my colleague just1157asking that question now.11581159    I want to ask you, if confirmed, do you commit to getting1160every dollar we have invested in our students and schools out1161to them?11621163    Ms. McMahon. Well, the appropriated dollars and those1164moneys that are passed by Congress, yes.11651166    I have no issue, however, with the fact--and I believe the1167American people spoke loudly in the election last November to1168say that they want to look at waste, fraud, and abuse in our1169government.11701171    DOGE, there are a couple of implants at the Department of1172Education as there are with agencies throughout the district1173and they are doing an audit. And it is----11741175    Senator Murray. Right. I understand and audit, but when1176Congress appropriates money, it is the Administration's1177responsibility to put that out as directed by Congress who has1178the power of the purse.11791180    What will you do if the President or Elon Musk tells you1181not to spend money Congress has appropriated to you?11821183    Ms. McMahon. We will certainly spend those dollars that1184Congress has passed. But I do think it is worthwhile to take a1185look at the programs before money goes out the door. It is much1186easier--it is much easier----11871188    Senator Murray. I understand that but----11891190    Ms. McMahon [continuing]. To stop the money as is going out1191the door than it is to claw it back.11921193    Senator Murray. Process by law is that you look at that,1194you make recommendations to Congress, and we implement those1195laws.11961197    I mean, the question really is who decides how much Federal1198funding public schools get in Seattle, where it has already1199been allocated. The school district, or Elon Musk, or Congress?12001201    I think Congress has been pretty clear that the purse lies1202here. We passed our appropriations bills. We expect those1203programs to count. If you have input, if you have programs you1204have looked at that you believe are not effective, then it is1205your job to come to us, explain why, and get the support for1206that.12071208    Ms. McMahon. Okay.12091210    Senator Murray. Let me move on. Ms. McMahon, I believe that1211our Nation's students, families, and taxpayers do want true1212accountability. They do want improvement in our schools. Back1213in 2015, Congress came together in a bipartisan way to replace1214the No Child Left Behind Act with the new law, Every Student1215Succeeds Act.12161217    That was a bill I was very proud to negotiate with my1218Republican counterpart on this Committee--passed it into law.1219It gives states more flexibility in using their Federal1220education funds, it eliminated those one size fits all mandates1221that everyone hated, and it established some really strong1222Federal guardrails to hold states and schools accountable.12231224    I believe that the Department of Education must do more to1225implement that law. Right now, less than 42 percent of our1226schools identified for comprehensive support and improvement,1227or CSI as we call it.12281229    Had a plan that met all the requirements of that law. And 11230in 5 schools plans included practices we know are ineffective.1231National assessment results, as you well know, released a few1232weeks ago show that our lowest performing students continue to1233fall furthest behind.12341235    I want to ask you, what specific actions will you take to1236implement the ESSA law? I am not looking for an exhaustive1237list, but can you name a couple of the requirements that are in1238that law that you will make sure are implemented?12391240    Ms. McMahon. Well, Senator, thank you. And I would look1241forward to working with you and the Committee, understanding1242more about the ESSA law.12431244    Senator Murray. Do you know what the requirements are? Do1245you know about the requirements for targeted support1246improvement schools or the annual report card reform? Can you1247name any of the requirements that are in that?12481249    Ms. McMahon. Yes, I have--I have read through ESSA. And I1250do know--it is very interesting. It is how I really got into1251education in the first place was when No Child Left Behind was1252in place.12531254    Senator Murray. But there are no requirements that you can1255tell me right now that you will make sure as Secretary of1256Education you will implement?12571258    Ms. McMahon. No, I want to study it further and get back to1259you on that, and I will be happy to do that.12601261    Senator Murray. Okay. Well, let me ask one last question.1262As I mentioned, DOGE staff have been given access in the1263Department of Education to personal information--personal1264information of students and families like their Social Security1265numbers, and their driver's license numbers, and their date of1266birth, what college they are enrolled in.12671268    I know that the access has been temporarily paused due to1269litigation, but there is a real potential for that kind of1270information to be abused or for students' privacy to be placed1271in jeopardy if the courts end up ruling against the students.12721273    We know that DOGE could use that highly personal1274information to then target students and target their families1275or cutoff access to Pell Grants for students at college that1276someone perceives opposes maybe President Trump policy.12771278    I want to ask you, do you believe that DOGE employees1279should have access to private student data?12801281    Ms. McMahon. It is my understanding that those employees1282have been onboarded as employees of the Department of Education1283and therefore they operate under the restraints of utilizing1284access of information and they are constrained by that.12851286    Senator Murray. That is not our understanding. And I have1287to tell you----12881289    Ms. McMahon. That is my understanding.12901291    Senator Murray [continuing]. Deeply concerning that. We1292have DOGE staffers. We don't know who they are. They are not1293held accountable. Getting access to students private1294information. I think that should frighten everyone.12951296    Ms. McMahon. Well, again, I am not there yet----12971298    Senator Murray. Thank you, Madam Chair.12991300    Ms. McMahon [continuing]. I am not there yet, but it is my1301understanding that they are onboarded fully employees.13021303    Senator Murray. I hope if you do get there, that you make1304sure that students' private information is not given to someone1305who has no idea what or we have no idea how they are using it.1306Thank you.13071308    Senator Murkowski. Senator Husted.13091310    Senator Husted. Thank you. Ms. McMahon, thank you--or1311congratulations on your nomination.13121313    Ms. McMahon. Thank you.13141315    Senator Husted. Look forward to your confirmation,1316hopefully, and working with you on what is arguably one of the1317most important issues to the future of our Country and to our1318children. I would just simply ask you, if you believe that1319education is foundational to the opportunity to live your1320version of the American dream for children? You agree with1321that?13221323    Ms. McMahon. I certainly do agree with that. And thank you1324very much, Senator, for that question. Education, I think, is1325at the very--it is at the very center of our culture. It is the1326ticket out of poverty for so many students.13271328    It is how our children's minds are absolutely cultivated so1329that they can learn. And I remember listening to Senator1330Cassidy when he said that every child up until the third grade1331learns to read and then after the third grade reads to learn.1332And if children cannot read at a proficiency level, they cannot1333continue to learn.13341335    They can't then be proficient in school. They can't go1336forward to higher education. They can't even start a business1337or do anything. So education I do believe that the very center1338of what we need to do, and to ensure that we have the best1339education for our students and that they all have equal access1340to quality education.13411342    Senator Husted. Thank you. The issue of inequality has come1343up in this hearing. And I can tell you as a--when I started in1344my elected career, I was a Green State Legislator in the State1345of Ohio who had this strange notion that if children were1346trapped in chronically failing schools, that they should have1347the opportunity to go somewhere else.13481349    Then I thought, who could be against that? And I quickly1350found out, well, there were a lot of people who were against1351that--powerful people, powerful institutions. And I just1352believe that we as Americans, we believe that freedom and1353choice is good. It is part of our DNA. It is good for markets1354and business.13551356    That monopolies don't work, whether that is big business or1357big government. And that has been reinforced to me over the1358course of the--basically my lifetime that I have worked on this1359issue. Foundationally, or fundamentally, billionaires have1360choice.13611362    Their children have choice. It is children that grow up in1363poverty that don't have choice. And that is an important1364element of fixing inequality because if we are going to--if we1365say that an education is foundational to living your version of1366the American dream, that you don't have the choice to go to a1367school that serves your needs, we basically have1368institutionalized a barrier against that opportunity and to1369have that equality of opportunity. Just share with me how you1370hope to fix that.13711372    Ms. McMahon. Well, certainly the President, one of his1373cornerstones relative to education is school choice. He1374certainly does believe in universal school choice. And we have1375seen, I think that there are now, I believe the number of 331376states. I might be corrected on that. States that do have1377school choice.13781379    What we have found that public schools come up. They are1380competitive. A lot of the concerns relative to school choice I1381think the statistics belie. We have students that are not1382leaving public schools in hordes and going to other schools,1383but they have the opportunity.13841385    Parents look at their children and say, I want that for my1386child. My school is failing my child. So if I have the1387opportunity to have an educational savings account, or a1388voucher program, or a scholarship program to get my child maybe1389to that charter school or to that other public school that is1390doing better than the one that my child is here because this is1391where I live, but I know that if I could get my child to that1392next school, they would be better off. Every parent wants that1393opportunity for their child.13941395    Senator Husted. Thank you. And just quickly, I made some1396calls to superintendents in my State in Ohio before I came1397today and I said, would you prefer to have the money sent1398directly to you rather than through the Federal Department of1399Education?14001401    Do you think you could do a better job if we released you1402from the rules and regulations and you just said--and they1403said, yes. Tell us what you want us to achieve. We will achieve1404it. We will do it.14051406    I just wanted to share that with you. And that--I also want1407to give you a chance to answer this, that you are not, and1408President Trump is not talking about cutting any funding for1409children. You are not talking about cutting funding for1410disabled children.14111412    You are just talking about changing the way that the money1413gets to these students in schools and that you are committed to1414that. Is that correct?14151416    Ms. McMahon. That is correct, Senator. Thank you very much.14171418    Senator Husted. Great. Thank you.14191420    The Chair. It is now Senator Baldwin.14211422    Senator Baldwin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And before I1423start my questions, I just wanted to put some studies in the1424record.14251426    Research studies of private school vouchers in Louisiana,1427Indiana, Ohio, and Washington, DC. showed that students who1428used these vouchers performed worse academically than their1429public school peers.14301431    I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record those four1432studies that show private school vouchers have a negative1433impact on student achievement.14341435    The Chair. Without objection.14361437    [The following information can be found on page 53 in1438Additional Material:]14391440    Senator Baldwin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mrs. McMahon, I1441appreciated the opportunity to meet with you last month, and I1442believe in giving all the President's nominees a fair shake.14431444    That is what the people of Wisconsin expect from me, and I1445look forward to hearing more about your approach to running the1446Department of Education if confirmed. Mrs. McMahon, since 1972,1447Title IX has been a critical tool in ensuring that all students1448are protected from sex based discrimination in federally funded1449education programs.14501451    We briefly discussed Title IX in our meeting, but I would1452like to ask you a series of yes or no questions to get into a1453little bit more detail here. So yes or no, do you believe that1454Title IX should be enforced to protect students from sexual1455harassment and sexual assault?14561457    Ms. McMahon. Yes, I do.14581459    Senator Baldwin. Do you believe that sexual harassment that1460is severe should be prohibited under Title IX?14611462    Ms. McMahon. I think sexual harassment should be prohibited1463in any case.14641465    Senator Baldwin. Thank you. Do you believe that sexual1466harassment that is pervasive should be prohibited by Title IX?14671468    Ms. McMahon. Yes.14691470    Senator Baldwin. Do you believe that harassment that is1471either severe or pervasive should be prohibited under Title IX?14721473    Ms. McMahon. I don't believe there should be any acceptance1474of sexual harassment, Senator.14751476    Senator Baldwin. Great. Because I am glad you actually1477agree with President Trump's efforts during his first term to1478narrow what qualifies as sexual harassment under Title IX. He--1479his guidance said that sexual harassment had to be severe and1480pervasive.14811482    I hope that you will take your position and press for that1483to be the law, but right now, the Title IX is limited to sexual1484harassment that is severe and pervasive, not severe or1485pervasive.14861487    Yes or no, if an assault occurs between two student but it1488happens off campus, do you think the school should have the1489ability to investigate that matter?14901491    Ms. McMahon. I think the school should investigate that1492matter. And I believe under the regulations today, and I could1493be corrected on that, that they are obligated to investigate.14941495    Senator Baldwin. Okay. And do you believe that the school1496then, after investigation, should have the ability to take1497actions regarding an incident that occurs off campus?14981499    Ms. McMahon. Yes. I think the school should be required to1500take those actions, and to investigate, and to notify the1501parties that are involved and that--so that both sides of the1502equation can have due process.15031504    Senator Baldwin. I appreciate your answer. It is not1505entirely clear at this matter in this--at this time that the1506incidents would not only be investigated but adjudicated as to1507the school's adjudication rules.15081509    The problem with that, as I am sure you are well aware, is1510that you would have the potential of a victim of sexual assault1511facing the potential--attending class with their perpetrator.1512Despite how much this Administration likes to talk about1513protecting women and girls, the actions have not matched the1514rhetoric.15151516    I think instead of actually protecting women and girls,1517this Administration is not making school a safer place for1518anyone while using this topic as a way to fearmonger and1519demonize others. Mrs. McMahon, you have been named in a lawsuit1520which alleges that you and your husband allowed for systemic1521and pervasive abuse of underage children to persist in your1522business for years.15231524    It is an ongoing lawsuit, and it alleges that you rehired a1525known sexual predator and you felt it was sufficient to simply1526direct him to steer clear of children. If confirmed, you will1527be responsible with overseeing the Department of Education1528Office of Civil Rights, charged with ensuring equal access to1529education through vigorous enforcement of civil rights laws.15301531    I am so concerned about whether sexual assault survivors on1532campus can trust you to support them.15331534    Ms. McMahon. Thank you, Senator. They certainly can trust1535me to support them. I have a granddaughter that is now in1536college. I have two grandsons who are in college.15371538    I have a deep commitment of understanding of how I would1539feel if any of them were involved in sexual harassment or1540accused of sexual harassment.15411542    You have my absolute commitment that I will uphold and1543protect those investigations to make sure that those students1544are treated fairly on both sides.15451546    Senator Baldwin. Mrs. McMahon, we met shortly after a1547shooting at----15481549    The Chair. You are a minute over.15501551    Senator Baldwin. Oh, I will submit this question for the1552record. Thank you.15531554    Ms. McMahon. Thank you, Senator.15551556    The Chair. Senator Tuberville.15571558    Senator Tuberville. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. Ms.1559McMahon, thank you for being here today and thanks for wanting1560to take on this monumental task.15611562    I am a football coach. I am not a lawyer. I am not a1563business guy. I taught high school and worked my way up for 401564years. This country gives you one thing and is what I taught my1565kids when I coached country.15661567    This country doesn't owe you anything but an opportunity,1568and that is the reason this country is the greatest country on1569the face of the earth. Now, when you lose that opportunity, and1570you--I have lost many times. I have got my tail back up and1571gone again.15721573    But that is where you learn it, through education. I have1574been to every state in this country recruiting, going through1575high schools, except for Alaska, in my 40 years. In my 40 years1576of coaching and going into a high school, there has not been a1577bigger disappointment than our education system.15781579    I have seen it decline for 40 years. It has gotten worse.1580So you are going to have the task of trying to bring it back.1581It is going to be hard to do because you are going to be fought1582from every side. This is not Democrat, Republican, Black,1583White.15841585    It is not--it is an American problem. I have spent tens of1586thousands of dollars of my budget when I coach and bringing1587kids in. After I test them, they couldn't read past sixth grade1588reading level, but they had 3.5 GPAs when they came to my1589university. We are failing. It is a disaster. If you can't1590read, you can't learn.15911592    That is one of the first things that we got to get back to,1593is teaching our kids to read. We got a lot of teachers that1594don't teach reading like you and I learned. It is different. We1595have all this nonsensical teaching of what we call common core1596of math.15971598    I still haven't figured that out. But thanks for wanting to1599take this on because there is a lot of obstacles that are going1600to be in your way. And so, don't be afraid to make changes. We1601have had a K through 12 system for years. It is a failure. It1602is an absolute failure. Let's teach our kids.16031604    That is the only chance they got to survive in this world,1605which is going to be very competitive. Now we have things that1606are getting in our way. And what is deterring our kids1607nowadays? That thing right there.16081609    I had problems coaching with--enemy No. 1 when I told them,1610put that damn phone up. Don't bring it to my dressing room1611because I want you to listen and learn, not be on there,1612listening to music and read the nonsense you see on there.16131614    You got a lot of obstacles. The one thing I think we need1615to do is just look at K through 12 and what do we do? How do we1616get better? I am all for workforce development in the last 21617years of high school, teaching kids to learn to use their1618hands.16191620    What is your thoughts on that, about work in high school? I1621am not talking about the past. I am talking about the last1622couple of years.16231624    Ms. McMahon. Well, thank you, Senator. I think when you and1625I met in your office, and I appreciated that time, I discussed1626with you that I probably dated myself by saying that when I was1627in high school, in your senior year in high school you could1628take vocational--a vocational program, which meant that you1629went to school the first part of the day.16301631    The second part of the day you could have a job. You could1632be learning a skill or a trade, and those credits would count1633toward your education. I think we need to get back to more of1634that. We are not teaching skill based learning in our schools1635anymore.16361637    I think we have to look at our entire education system and1638say, 4 year college is not for everyone. For those particular1639jobs that require it, your doctors, lawyers, engineers that1640require 4 years, then I think----16411642    [Background demonstrators.]16431644    The Chair. Ms. McMahon, please suspend.16451646    [Background demonstrators.]16471648    The Chair. The Committee will come to order. Capitol Police1649are asked to remove the individual from the room.16501651    Senator Tuberville. I don't think she knows how to read.16521653    The Chair. Again, members of the audience are reminded that1654disruptions will not be permitted while the Committee conducts1655its business. And with that, Ms. McMahon, please resume.16561657    Ms. McMahon. Thank you. So I think we do have to get back1658to teaching basics in school K through 12. But to continue onto1659what we were talking about, but we don't have enough skill1660based learning.16611662    We don't have enough internships or apprenticeship1663programs. I would also like to see more dual credits in our1664high schools, our junior and senior years, that would count1665toward community colleges, or other or other institutes that1666would get students through college faster if in fact that is1667the plan that they are going to take.16681669    We have so much that we can do to help our students get1670prepared to have a good income and a good livelihood. And if1671they can graduate from high school with some skill based1672already, they can even start a business of their own.16731674    They can decide at that particular point, I want to put1675more money toward my own education, but in the meantime I am1676prepared to make a living. But I think we have to look at1677education and say, our vocational and skill based training is1678not a default education.16791680    It can be something. It can be front and center so that1681students who are inclined to go in that direction actually1682should be encouraged to do that. It is not one size fits all.16831684    Senator Tuberville. I would hope too that you would look--1685my time is almost up but look at the number of teachers we have1686now as compared to administrators. We need teachers.16871688    We don't need people sitting in the office with their feet1689propped up. We need people in the classrooms teaching these1690kids, hold them accountable. And put more money in the teachers1691and less money in administrators. I think we would be a heck of1692a lot better off. Thank you. Thank you very much.16931694    Ms. McMahon. Thank you.16951696    The Chair. I will note for the record that many of the1697losses Coach Tuberville suffered were at the hands of LSU.16981699    [Laughter.]17001701    The Chair. Senator Murphy.17021703    Senator Murphy. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Ms.1704McMahon, good to see you. You and I have spent a lot of time1705over the years, and I appreciate your willingness to sit before1706the Committee and answer some really important questions.17071708    I want to talk to you about an Executive Order that the1709Trump administration issued that commands agencies, including1710the Department of Education, to eliminate grants to1711organizations and entities that support DEI programs and1712activities.17131714    As you know, this has a lot of schools all across the1715country scrambling because they have no idea what that means.1716They don't know, because the order doesn't define DEI, as to1717whether they are in compliance or out of compliance, and1718whether they are going to have their Federal grants1719compromised.17201721    How does the school know whether it is running a DEI1722program or not?17231724    Ms. McMahon. Well, certainly--and thank you, Senator. And1725it is good to see you again outside of the State of Connecticut1726where we run into each other. DEI I think has been--it is a1727program that is tough.17281729    It was put in place ostensibly for more diversity, for1730equity, and inclusion, and I think what we are seeing is that1731it is having an opposite effect. We are getting back to more1732segregating of our schools instead of having more inclusion in1733our schools.17341735    When there are DEI programs that say that Black students1736need separate graduation ceremonies, or Hispanics need separate1737ceremonies, we are not achieving what we wanted to achieve with1738inclusion.17391740    Senator Murphy. Let me give you an example then. So this1741order applies to Department of Defense schools, and those1742schools have canceled all programing around Black History1743Month.17441745    If a school in Connecticut celebrates Martin Luther King1746Day and has a series of events and programing teaching about1747Black history, are they in violation of a policy that says1748schools should stop running DEI programs?17491750    Ms. McMahon. Not in my view. That is clearly not the case.1751The celebration of Martin Luther King Day and Black History1752Month should be celebrated throughout all of our schools. I1753believe that Martin Luther King was one of the strongest1754proponents of making sure that we look at all of our1755populations.17561757    When he said that he would hope that his children wouldn't1758be judged by the color of their skin, but the content of their1759character, and I think that is the fundamental basis that we1760should celebrate Black History Month.17611762    Senator Murphy. West Point has closed down all ethnic1763clubs, so the Society of Black Engineers no longer can meet1764because they believe that to be in compliance with this order,1765they cannot have groups structured around ethnic or racial1766affiliations.17671768    Would schools--would public schools be in violation of this1769order--would they risk funding if they had clubs that students1770could belong to based on their racial or ethnic identity?17711772    Ms. McMahon. Well, I certainly today don't want to address1773hypothetical situations. I would like, once I am confirmed, to1774get in and assess these programs, look at what has been1775covered----17761777    Senator Murphy. Is that a pretty easy one? I mean, you are1778saying that it is a possibility that if a school has a club for1779Vietnamese American students or Black students where they meet1780after school, that they could be potentially in jeopardy of1781receiving Federal funding?17821783    Ms. McMahon. Again, I would like to fully understand what1784that order is and what those clubs are doing.17851786    Senator Murphy. That is pretty chilling. I think schools1787all around the country are going to hear that. What about1788educational programing centered around specific ethnic and1789racial experiences?17901791    My son is in a public school. He takes a class called1792African American History. If you are running an African1793American history class, could you perhaps be in violation of1794this court order--of this Executive Order?17951796    Ms. McMahon. I am not quite certain, and I would like to1797look into it further and get back to you on that.17981799    Senator Murphy. There is a possibility--there is a1800possibility, you are saying, that public schools that run1801African American history classes, right--this is a class that1802has been taught in public schools for decades, could lose1803Federal funding if they continue to teach African-American1804history.18051806    Ms. McMahon. No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying1807that I would like to take a look at these programs and fully1808understand the breadth of the Executive Order and get back to1809you on that.18101811    Senator Murphy. I think you are going to have a lot of1812educators and a lot of principals and administrators scrambling1813right now. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My time has expired.18141815    The Chair. Senator Murkowski.18161817    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, Ms.1818McMahon.18191820    Ms. McMahon. Thank you.18211822    Senator Murkowski. Good to have a conversation with you.1823You have had the privilege, I know, to come to Alaska during1824your tenure at the SBA. You came North, so I know that you have1825had an opportunity to understand some of the challenges that we1826face with basically our geography.18271828    I wanted to talk a little bit this morning about our public1829schools. There is a lot of discussion, and I listened carefully1830to your comments to Senator Husted about school choice. We1831would all love to have the benefits of greater school choice.18321833    In the Anchorage public school system, my sons were able to1834attend a magnet school that was focused on an immersion program1835for--Spanish speaking immersion program. It was a great program1836for them. I go to the vast majority of my communities across1837the state and there is no choice. It is a small village. It may1838have 500 people, it may have 1,000 people, but you have one1839school.18401841    It is not as if there is an opportunity to go to another1842school because 82 percent of these communities are not1843connected by a road. So if you wanted to go to another school,1844you would have to figure out how you fly to another village,1845another population center.18461847    For me, investment in our public education system is really1848what I have been focused on. I had an opportunity to speak1849before our Alaska Association of School Boards just recently1850and received a standing ovation when I said public funds for1851public schools. Pretty simple.18521853    I want to ask you whether you believe it is your primary1854role and responsibility as Secretary to support and strengthen1855our Nation's public schools?18561857    Ms. McMahon. I absolutely do believe that our public1858schools are the bedrock of our education. They go back to the1859very founding of our Country. I think in the first1860Constitution, there were actually Secretaries of each state1861that were set aside for the specific goal of public education.18621863    Education is certainly understood to be so vital and so1864important to what we are doing. I understand the schools in1865Alaska--I think when I was in your office, we were talking1866about the school that I visited in Kwethluk, which is a very,1867very small island.18681869    The school was being funded by SBA, this was when I was at1870SBA, and because we were looking at the fact that there was no1871real community center and no glue holding the community1872together. And the children, especially in K through 12, often1873dropped out of school because they didn't see the need or the1874necessity to continue with education and they would often wind1875up on the streets or not having jobs.18761877    I have not checked back with that school to see how it was1878going, but I saw the commitment of that community to invest and1879to make sure that the best education--and this was a state of1880the art school built on this island.18811882    When I pulled up in the boat in that village, there were1883mothers in a smoking hut that were cutting salmon to get ready1884for the winter. And on the other side, there was this1885incredibly modern school that was being built.18861887    I think we have to invest our public education, if we can1888use public funds, to help with tutoring in those issues, in1889those instances where you don't have a choice to go to another1890school.18911892    Senator Murkowski. You quite possibly saw one of the very1893few examples of good infrastructure. And as we know, it is not1894just giving a good building. It is making sure that you have1895teachers that are able to stay in a village that lacks a lot of1896resources, a lot of support.18971898    I want to pivot from that, but I do want to underscore the1899emphasis on education equity across America including in the1900most rural of areas. Because I listen to a lot of the comments1901around here, and it works if you are in a city, but it doesn't1902work in my communities, and I have an obligation to them.19031904    I want to ask you about local control here real quickly.1905This has been something that as Republicans we have been1906talking about, this is--it is local control, local control,1907local control. And we have got a lot of folks that are1908suggesting that now the public school curriculum should not1909include lessons in diversity, equity, and inclusion.19101911    Want to focus on other things. I understand that. But we1912have ESSA, the Elementary and Secondary Education Act. We1913included a number of provisions that were very, very specific1914in prohibiting any Federal employee from mandating, directing,1915or controlling a state's school districts or school's1916instructional content, academic standards, and assessments,1917curricula, or program of instruction.19181919    You may be in a situation where, as Secretary, you may not1920condition the award of a grant on a school agreeing not to1921teach DEI subjects. You may be in a position where you can't1922mandate that they teach the principles of the U.S.1923Constitution.19241925    You may be in a position where you are not able to prohibit1926teachers from discussing LGBTQ issues with students. ESSA is1927very clear. And again, it was something that we wanted to1928promote as Republicans with the focus on local control.19291930    How do you balance what you have shared here before the1931Committee with the requirements of the law that says the1932Federal Government is not the school board here, if you will,1933for our Nation's schools?19341935    Ms. McMahon. Thank you, Senator. And I believe--I don't1936remember which is the Senators this morning. Actually, I think1937it was Senator--[technical problems]--who said the Department1938of Education does not actually educate any child. It is to be1939handled at the local level.19401941    I understand under ESSA there were lots of regulations put1942in place to return, and the goal was to return education to the1943states, which is clearly the President's role. But, Senator, I1944must say we have failed in our mission.19451946    We are not delivering the kind of education that we need to1947deliver to our children. I believe, as does the President, the1948best education is closest to the child. That parents and school1949officials who understand the needs of those children in those1950communities can best direct the education of those states, and1951states will be competitive.19521953    Governors have put in programs for school choice, etcetera,1954and looking--and what kind of results are we seeing? I was1955heartened by the State of Louisiana in the recent NAEP scores1956that came out that they had brought up their reading and their1957math scores by a considerable percentage because they went back1958to basics.19591960    They were teaching children to read and write and do1961arithmetic. And I think I heard a superintendent of the1962Louisiana schools say that he would--he used everything from1963flashcards to AI to make sure that the students were getting1964the basics in education, and that is what we have to get back1965to.19661967    Senator Murkowski. Sounds like you are suggesting we need1968to amend or change ESSA. Okay.19691970    The Chair. Senator Murkowski, I was asleep at the wheel.19711972    Senator Murkowski. Go ahead.19731974    The Chair. You are like way over.19751976    Senator Murkowski. I am sorry.19771978    The Chair. Senator Kaine.19791980    Senator Kaine. I would never describe you as asleep at the1981wheel, Mr. Chairman. But thank you, Ms. McMahon. I enjoyed the1982visit we had in our office, especially our discussion about1983career and technical education.19841985    Ms. McMahon. Yes.19861987    Senator Kaine. That is a huge passion of mine. I want to1988ask you about public service loan forgiveness. The Federal1989Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program was put in place during1990the Bush administration. Bipartisan Congress. It has been part1991of law since 2007. But what is your position on the Public1992Service Loan Forgiveness Program?19931994    Ms. McMahon. Well, certainly, and thank you very much. And1995it was good to visit with you in your office, Senator. Clearly,1996there are programs that have already been passed by Congress1997that do, in fact, grant loan forgiveness for public service.19981999    Our first responders, military, etcetera, and we certainly2000should honor those programs. And if we want stronger or more2001programs for loan forgiveness, then I think Congress should2002pass those programs and then we would implement it.20032004    Senator Kaine. Your commitment is, should you be confirmed,2005you will fully implement existing public service loan2006forgiveness programs that have been passed by Congress?20072008    Ms. McMahon. Those that have been passed by Congress, yes.2009That is the law.20102011    Senator Kaine. That is very important because during the2012first Trump administration, Secretary DeVos and the Department2013of Education slow walked approvals of public service loan2014forgiveness. 7,000 people over the course of 4 years were2015granted forgiveness under the programs.20162017    It was about a 3 percent acceptance rate of fully qualified2018applicants for public service loan forgiveness. During the2019Biden administration, more than a million applicants were2020approved for forgiveness, as was appropriate given the2021Congressional directive, and more than 33,000 Virginia public2022servants were given public service loan forgiveness.20232024    If the DOGE brothers or somebody else tells you we don't2025like these programs and we don't want you to implement them, I2026can count on you to stand up and fully implement them to2027benefit those who are entitled to the benefit by the2028Congressional statute?20292030    Ms. McMahon. Yes, because that is the law.20312032    Senator Kaine. Thank you for that. If there is no2033Department of Education, who will enforce the Individuals with2034Disabilities and Education Act?20352036    Ms. McMahon. Well, I think that is something that I would2037very much like to understand more and look into.20382039    I mean, when IDEA was originally set up, it was under HEW,2040the Department of Health, Education and Welfare. After the2041Department of Education was established in 1980, it shifted2042over there. I am not sure that it is not better served in HHS.2043But I don't know. I haven't yet been able to be in.20442045    If I am confirmed, it is of high priority to make sure that2046the students who are receiving disability loans--I mean,2047disability funding, that is not impacted. It is incredibly2048important that those programs continue to be funded.20492050    Senator Kaine. My Virginia parents who have children with2051disabilities are highly, highly worried right now about the2052elimination of the Department of Education because the IDEA is2053about funding, and I know you have talked about that already,2054but it is also about enforcement. You would agree with me that2055there has to be vigorous enforcement of the requirements of2056IDEA?20572058    Ms. McMahon. Well, I certainly agree that we want to make2059sure that funding gets to those students, and it is not2060defunding----20612062    Senator Kaine. I am not asking about funding. I am asking2063about enforcement.20642065    Ms. McMahon. Well, yes. The programs have to have2066accountability. All of the programs do.20672068    Senator Kaine. What role do you think the Federal2069Government should play in addressing the national teacher2070shortage?20712072    Ms. McMahon. That is a really critical issue that we are2073not--we are not attracting and keeping our teachers. One thing2074I think we need to make sure of--and I am not sure it is a2075Federal Government policy because that really should be at the2076state level.20772078    How are we educating and teaching our--and training our2079teachers? How are we making sure that they have the supplies2080that they need in their classrooms? We need to make sure that2081the funding is proper in the states so that they can support2082teachers.20832084    Senator Kaine. Let me say a word about funding. Just in the2085first couple of weeks of the Trump administration, here is what2086they have done with respect to the teacher shortage. They have2087canceled grants going to jurisdictions, including jurisdictions2088in Virginia, on teacher training programs that have been2089designed to reduce teacher shortages.20902091    There is also a national priority that I am sure you are2092familiar with, national board certification for teachers. It is2093kind of giving teachers the ability to sort of up their2094professional credentials, and often local governments, and2095occasionally the Federal Government, will give an incentive, a2096financial incentive for upping your credentials.20972098    The Trump administration canceled the grant that goes to2099the organization that administers national teachers2100certification. I get it that the primary responsibility for2101dealing with teacher shortages is at the state and local level,2102but the Federal Government has played an important role in2103this, and there are important ongoing initiatives to help2104states deal with it that this Administration is canceling,2105suggesting that they don't really prioritize having highly2106qualified teachers standing up in front of every classroom.21072108    My time has expired. Thank you, Mr. Chair.21092110    The Chair. Thank you.21112112    Senator Hawley.21132114    Senator Hawley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. McMahon, thank2115you for being here. Nice to see you again. Let me just say2116this, the last 4 years have been in many ways absolutely2117hellacious for students on our college campuses.21182119    You had the last Administration, which issued Federal2120rules, binding regulations that required our college campuses2121to put biological men into women's locker rooms. You had2122multiple universities claiming the mandate, claiming the cover2123of the Biden administration forcing women to accept biological2124men in women's sports.21252126    You have seen young woman after young woman denied basic2127safety in their changing facilities, for heaven's sake, basic2128safety in their dorm rooms, not able to play college sports.21292130    I am delighted that a Federal court finally struck down2131this Biden administration rule back in January, just over a2132month ago, and President Trump issued a clear, strong,2133unequivocal Executive Order saying that Title IX will be2134enforced according to its terms, which is Title IX protects2135women's sports. It protects women on college campuses.21362137    No more men in women's locker rooms. This is a huge victory2138for common sense and the rule of law. My question to you is2139this, a number of universities, including some very prominent2140ones, ones that love to call themselves elite, have said they2141are not going to follow that Executive Order.21422143    They are going to keep having men in women's locker rooms.2144They are going to try to get men in women's sports. What can be2145done to ensure that these colleges comply with the law and that2146women are safe on campus, and that women are able to play2147sports without men interfering?21482149    Ms. McMahon. Well, certainly that--it is a--I agree with2150you that I was very happy to see that--those restrictions on2151Title IX vacated so that we are really back to what Title IX2152was originally established to do, and that was to protect2153sexual discrimination.21542155    Women should feel safe in their locker rooms. They should2156feel safe in their spaces. They shouldn't have to be exposed to2157men undressing in front of them. I think I heard one person the2158other day say, well, the guy should hold the shower curtain in2159front of them so that they aren't exposing themselves.21602161    I mean, really, that is just not what we should be doing.2162We want to make sure that Title IX, which is the law, is2163enforced, and we need to uphold that.21642165    Senator Hawley. Will you investigate those universities2166that are not complying with Title IX, that are not complying2167with the President's Executive Order--these universities are2168absolutely getting Federal funds from this Department, the2169Department that you are going to run, if and when you are2170confirmed, and I believe you will be.21712172    Will you investigate those universities and give them an2173ultimatum? Either they need to comply with the law, they need2174to follow the law of Title IX, they need to follow the rules2175issued by this Administration and your Department or no Federal2176funding. I mean, will you make sure that this--that the law is2177enforced?21782179    Ms. McMahon. Yes, we will make sure the laws is enforced.21802181    Senator Hawley. Very good. Let me ask you about----21822183    [Background demonstrators.]21842185    The Chair. The Senator will suspend. The Committee will2186come to order. Capitol Police are asked to remove the2187individual from the hearing room. Members of the audience are2188reminded that disruptions will not be permitted while the2189Committee conducts its business. The Senator will resume.21902191    Senator Hawley. Don't worry, Ms. McMahon. It is me, it is2192not you, as a matter of fact.21932194    [Laughter.]21952196    Senator Hawley. Let me ask you about something else that2197has happened on our campuses in the last 4 years, the wave of2198antisemitism that we have seen, particularly after October 7th2199with the attacks on Israel. Shameful attacks on Jewish2200students, Jewish American students, Jewish students from2201overseas.22022203    We have seen the most unbelievable pro-terrorist2204propaganda. And again, these universities taking Federal money,2205getting Federal funds, not protecting Jewish students,2206permitting encampments, permitting violence, in some instances2207attacks on students on their campuses.22082209    The President has issued an Executive Order on January the221029th on measures to combat anti-Semitism, and he directed the2211Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights to open Title2212VI investigations into a number of universities, including2213Columbia, Berkeley, Northwestern.22142215    Will you enforce the law, Title VI to the hilt, and will2216you make sure that Jewish Americans are safe on our campuses,2217for heaven's sake, and these crazy students who are committing2218crimes, breaking windows, smashing into buildings, trapping2219Jewish students in libraries, will you make sure that this2220stops on our college campuses that are getting all of this2221Federal tax money?22222223    Ms. McMahon. Absolutely, or face defunding of their moneys.22242225    Senator Hawley. Very good. And let me ask you about2226something else. For students who have come to this country on a2227student visa--and as you know, that is a lot of people on our2228college campuses.22292230    For students who are here on a student visa who have2231threatened their fellow students, threatened Jewish students,2232who have supported terrorist organizations, who have broken our2233law by trespassing, or vandalism, or acts of violence against2234Jewish students, will you see that those students, that their2235visas are revoked, and they are sent home, and they are not2236allowed to stay on our campuses under cover of our laws2237committing crimes and threatening our own students? Will you2238return some common sense to our campuses in this way?22392240    Ms. McMahon. Yes.22412242    [Background demonstrators.]22432244    The Chair. Capitol Police are asked to remove the2245individual from the hearing room. I am not sure it is going to2246matter, but I am going to remind members of the audience that2247disruptions are not to be permitted while the Committee2248conducts its business.22492250    Please show people the regard you would have them show2251yourself if you are in this role. It may seem trite, but the2252rudeness of people who are trying to squelch others as they are2253trying to communicate in an incredibly public form is just2254amazing--amazingly bad.22552256    With that editorial comment, I then go to Senator Hassan.22572258    Senator Hassan. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And welcome, Ms.2259McMahon. It was good to meet with you in my office a little bit2260ago. And I have been starting these hearings with a question I2261never thought I would have to ask.22622263    I will cut to the chase with you because you have said2264several times that you will uphold the law. So I assume that if2265the President of the United States gives you a directive that2266breaks the law, you will instead do what you are legally2267required to do rather than his instruction.22682269    Ms. McMahon. The President will not ask me to do anything2270that is against the law.22712272    Senator Hassan. Well, the last month has told us that it is2273quite likely he may, but I am going to take you at your word2274that you will enforce the law because you have said it several2275times today.22762277    Three weeks ago, the President unilaterally cut all Federal2278grants by issuing an indefinite freeze. That is an2279unconstitutional and, yes, illegal action that was stopped by2280Federal courts, to my previous point.22812282    Subsequent reporting indicates that the President is also2283planning to eliminate the Department of Education, the2284Education--the Department that you are interviewing today to2285lead. And there is this little bit of--I don't know, the whole2286hearing right now feels kind of surreal to me.22872288    It is almost like we are being subjected to a very elegant2289gaslighting here because Senator Hawley just asked you and you2290talked about the need to enforce protections for Jewish2291students on college campuses, but the very Department where the2292enforcement would take place is the Department of Education and2293he wants to eliminate it, and you say you will work with him to2294do that.22952296    Similarly, you have talked about the importance of2297apprenticeships and other kinds of career and technical2298education. Really important. There is bipartisan support for2299that here. The Republicans are in charge. We have bipartisan2300bill after bipartisan bill. We could go right forward with it,2301but there is this discussion as if we haven't made any progress2302on that and there is somehow a partizan divide about that.23032304    I would encourage you to look into that. But I want to talk2305a little bit about why the Department of Education is so2306important. It plays a critical role in making sure that2307students, regardless of their zip code, race, gender,2308disability, or family circumstance have access to a quality2309public education.23102311    It was established because Congress recognized that the2312country has a compelling interest in ensuring that all of our2313kids become self-sufficient members of our workforce and our2314civil society. New Hampshire schools rely on Federal funding of2315about $2,000 per student to provide that public education.23162317    What would you say to parents in my state who are concerned2318about the President's attempt to cut all Federal funding to New2319Hampshire and to eliminate the Department of Education? Are you2320telling parents that their children should lose access to2321special education services, for example, or lose access to2322trained teachers or school nurses?23232324    Ms. McMahon. Well, thank you, Senator, very much. Let me2325just object to one point, and that is that the residents in the2326State of New Hampshire should not be concerned that Federal2327funding is going to be removed from their schools. How they get2328that Federal funding may change----23292330    Senator Hassan. My time is limited. What Department do you2331suggest would then administer that funding?23322333    Ms. McMahon. Which funding?23342335    Senator Hassan. The special education funding.23362337    Ms. McMahon. Special education, I think it could very well2338go back to HHS where it started.23392340    Senator Hassan. All right. So I just want to be clear. You2341are going to put special education in the hands of Robert F.2342Kennedy, Jr. Now, I want to talk about IDEA a little bit more.2343I want to turn to a specific issue regarding the President's2344plan to eliminate the Department of Education. What does the2345Individuals with Disabilities Education Act promise?23462347    Ms. McMahon. It promises that we are going to take care of2348these students, and they are going to be provided with2349assistance that they have in the school rooms, the technology2350that they need, the assistance. And you and I talked a little2351bit about that with your own child.23522353    Senator Hassan. IDEA guarantees children with disabilities2354a free, appropriate education. What is the Federal investment2355promise to states under IDEA? What is it supposed to be?23562357    Ms. McMahon. In terms of dollar amounts?23582359    Senator Hassan. Yes.23602361    Ms. McMahon. I am not sure.23622363    Senator Hassan. The Federal Government committed back in23641975 when it passed IDEA to pay 40 percent of the average per2365pupil expenditure for special education. What we actually--what2366the Federal Government actually does?23672368    Ms. McMahon. I think it is around 14 to 18 percent at this2369point.23702371    Senator Hassan. It is about 15 percent.23722373    Ms. McMahon. But it is an appropriated amount from2374Congress, though. And so Congress needs to appropriate those2375dollars to spend.23762377    Senator Hassan. That is right. But the President of the2378United States is proposing, and the Republicans in Congress are2379proposing massive tax cuts for billionaires, and they are2380trying to pay for it by massive cuts to education and other2381services.23822383    Just so you know, New Hampshire would lose $60 million in2384IDEA funding if IDEA were eliminated. I am going to--my time is2385almost up. I am just going to say this. The reason the2386Department of Education came about in about 1975--IDEA was2387passed in 1975.23882389    In 1979, was the Department--and Mr. Chair, I will take2390just a second here. But people need to understand, people like2391my son, we talked about him, before IDEA, before the Department2392of Education existed, state and local schools did not educate2393these kids. They barred them from the classrooms.23942395    These kids were institutionalized and abused. There is a2396reason that a Department of Education and IDEA exist, and it is2397because educating kids with disabilities can be really hard,2398and it takes the national commitment to get it done.23992400    That is why so many people are so concerned about this2401proposal to eliminate the Department because they think kids2402will once again be shoved aside, and especially kids with2403disabilities. Thank you, Mr. Chair.24042405    The Chair. Thank you.24062407    Senator Scott.24082409    Senator Scott. Thank you, sir. One of the things that you2410and I had the opportunity to talk about a number of months ago,2411I actually believe that competition does in fact increase the2412production as well as improve the outcome, typically.24132414    Whether it is private sector or with public education, I2415think competition is a key component to making things better2416and typically cheaper. I think charter schools is a classic2417example of that.24182419    Typically speaking, some of the most successful schools in2420the country--think about success academies in New York City,2421where you have 83 percent minorities who are consistently2422ranked in the top five high schools in the state because all2423kids have high potential of learning. I think that we need to2424make sure that every parent has choice so that the kids have2425the best chance at life.24262427    By the way, I think that public schools are part of school2428choice from my perspective. Public schools, private schools,2429charter schools, virtual schools, homeschool. I want the2430parents to make that choice because they care the most about2431their kids.24322433    I know some people think it is the teachers unions. I think2434it is the parents. I would love to hear your thoughts.24352436    Ms. McMahon. I am sorry.24372438    Senator Scott. I would love to hear your thoughts.24392440    Ms. McMahon. Well, absolutely. I agree that competition is,2441I think, very key. When I first was--started to take a look at2442education, I was reading the Sunday morning paper in Greenwich,2443Connecticut and I saw that public schools in Greenwich,2444Connecticut were not meeting the levels of No Child Left2445Behind, and I couldn't understand that. One of the richest2446communities in the country. How could there be this kind of2447achievement gap between students from lower income areas to2448upper income areas?24492450    I tried to meet with the superintendent to talk about that2451article. I couldn't meet with her. I eventually talked to the2452Governor. And the Governor said to me, if you are really2453interested, let me introduce you to some people.24542455    She did. And I started talking to the folks who were2456developing charter schools in Connecticut. A woman named Daisha2457Tall. And I visited those schools, and I saw how much better2458those children were performing.24592460    They were rapidly coming up to grade level reading and2461doing math. They were teaching differently. And I thought, this2462is a real opportunity. This is a charter school, which is a2463public school.24642465    Senator Scott. Yes.24662467    Ms. McMahon. In the State of Connecticut, it is not fully2468funded. The facility is not provided. And so you--it is a2469public, private partnership to make sure that these schools are2470offering choice and competitiveness.24712472    We saw quite--it was clear evidence how those schools2473provided an opportunity for students to succeed.24742475    Senator Scott. Awesome. I only have 2 minutes left. That2476was quick. Maybe I have as much time as I want. I will be the2477Chair for a few----24782479    [Laughter.]24802481    Senator Scott. That's great. Oh my goodness gracious. Never2482mind. I didn't see that hammer you had there. So back in 2017,2483I started working on creating a definition in higher education2484for anti-Semitism.24852486    I thought then that we were seeing a little uptick. And2487having been raised in the Deep South, I am familiar with2488discrimination and the challenges that come with,2489unfortunately, the color of people's skin and, or their2490religious beliefs.24912492    If you look at the level of hate that we have seen recently2493on college campuses toward our Jewish students, I find it2494disgusting, frankly. I hope that you will commit to2495investigating reports of anti-Semitism to the full extent of2496the law, especially on college campuses around this country.24972498    Ms. McMahon. Yes, absolutely. There should be no2499discrimination of any form. But I fully believe that there2500should be First Amendment protections for discourse and for2501freedom of speech.25022503    But when you become involved in activities that are2504actually endangering the students that are on campus, then that2505is not what should happen. And those schools that accept2506Federal funding that allow that to happen should face2507defunding.25082509    Senator Scott. Thank you. And my last question. I know that2510many of us on my side of the aisle think that DEI is about2511power more than it is about anything else. I think diversity2512actually is very healthy for our Country.25132514    It is the backbone and the strength of our Country. I think2515diversity, equity, inclusion is a political movement that has2516very little to do with the advancement of people based on the2517merit, based on what they have to offer, and more to do with2518about gaining power and political position.25192520    President Trump and I worked a lot on HBCUs, Historically2521Black Colleges and Universities. He was able to take that2522funding to the highest level in the history of the country. He2523was the first President and the only President to make that2524funding permanent.25252526    There is no doubt that our Country still struggles with the2527issue of race, but one of the shining examples of a merit based2528system that helps those who do not have, see the perspective2529that the American dream is for them.25302531    I hope that you will commit to continuing the efforts of2532President Trump on supporting Historically Black Colleges and2533Universities.25342535    Ms. McMahon. Yes. As a matter of fact, I met with the2536president of Howard University a week ago and we sat and talked2537through a lot of the different programs that are offered there.2538And I was very impressed.25392540    I understand that I believe that I am an honorary Board of2541Regent member, that may not be the right description, by virtue2542of if I am confirmed as the Secretary of Education, and I look2543forward to continuing those programs.25442545    Senator Scott. With my last 5 minutes.25462547    [Laughter.]25482549    Senator Marshall. Make it fast.25502551    Senator Scott. Okay, I am done.25522553    Senator Marshall. Thank you, Senator Scott. I see Senator2554Hickenlooper jumped in front of the freshman.25552556    Senator Hickenlooper. No, I will yield to the freshman.2557Just out of deference to her fresh status.25582559    Senator Marshall. Okay.25602561    Senator Blunt Rochester, you are recognized for 5 minutes.25622563    Senator Blunt Rochester. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair and2564Mr. Hickenlooper for that sharing of the time.25652566    I will first start out by acknowledging that today here2567with us are representatives from the Delaware State Education2568Association, and I want to thank them and all of their members2569for being here in Washington, but more importantly, for what2570they do for the students and families in the State of Delaware.25712572    I also want to thank you, Ms. McMahon, for taking the time2573to come and meet with me and talk about a myriad of issues. I2574especially appreciated your candor in our meeting. And as I am2575sitting here watching the passion of the participants, of the2576Members, it is clear that education is so important to this2577country.25782579    I am clear eyed about the challenges that we face in2580accomplishing the goal of ensuring that all students are able2581to be prioritized. I shared my concerns about the call to2582abolish the Department. I am particularly concerned as a former2583Cabinet Secretary myself, Cabinet Secretaries do have the2584influence, the power, the responsibility to share what is good,2585what is bad, what is wrong.25862587    I understand waiting until you get into a position to2588figure some things out, but there are core basic things like do2589we have--the confusion that people have over this Executive2590Order on diversity. They are scared. The fact that school kids2591are afraid to come to school maybe because of their status.25922593    We are hearing all kinds of stories and that is why this2594hearing is so important. That is why this position is so2595important. And I am just a little confused because part of the2596reason why it was created was because in HEW, children were2597buried into these big departments.25982599    Why do you think that a Department that is focused and that2600really is dealing with children, whether it is civil rights,2601disability, the providing the checks and balances, why do you2602think that it is better to stick the functions of dealing with2603children with disabilities in a huge department that will not2604have the same priority?26052606    Ms. McMahon. Thank you very much, Senator, for that2607question. The bottom line is, because it is not working. The2608Department of Education was set up in 1980, and since that2609time, we have spent almost $1 trillion, and we have watched our2610performance scores continue to go down.26112612    I do believe that it is the responsibility to make sure2613that our children do have equal access to excellent education.2614I think that is best handled at the state level, closest to the2615states, working with state administrators, teachers, parents2616who should have input into their curriculum.26172618    Senator Blunt Rochester. I have only 2 minutes. And I just2619want to follow-up, do you believe that any school benefiting2620from taxpayer dollars should be required to follow Federal2621civil rights laws?26222623    Ms. McMahon. Schools should be required to follow the laws.26242625    Senator Blunt Rochester. Anybody getting Federal--getting2626taxpayer dollars. And so, that is good. So private schools2627should not be able to turn away a student with a disability or2628a student based on their religion or their ethnicity or race.26292630    Ms. McMahon. Well, private schools have--private schools2631aren't taking Federal dollars.26322633    Senator Blunt Rochester. But I am saying----26342635    Ms. McMahon. They have the ability to say that they--if2636they do not believe that they----26372638    Senator Blunt Rochester. If they receive then, they should2639not.26402641    Ms. McMahon. Well, if they believe that they cannot best2642serve that student and they are not taking Federal dollars,2643then they have the right not to accept that student.26442645    Senator Blunt Rochester. But I am speaking specifically2646when we talk about--there is a lot of conversation about2647vouchers. If private schools take Federal dollars, can they2648turn away a child based on a disability, or religion, or race?26492650    Ms. McMahon. Well, I think that there are also some public2651schools who are saying that they don't have the----26522653    Senator Blunt Rochester. It is really just a yes or no.26542655    Ms. McMahon. No it is not. It really is----26562657    Senator Blunt Rochester. For me--if you want to follow-up,2658because I am kind of running out of time.26592660    Ms. McMahon. Okay. I would be happy to follow--and I look2661forward to following up with you to discuss that. Thank you2662very much.26632664    Senator Blunt Rochester. Okay. Because this is a big--one2665of the big concerns that we hear about. Also, I believe that as2666a country, as I said, we have benefited from checks and2667balances. It is a hallmark.26682669    If you are concerned, how would you defend the rights of2670all students if state and local governments are unable or won't2671address violations of students' civil rights? For example, how2672will you intervene if a student is being bullied or harassed on2673the basis of race or disability?26742675    Ms. McMahon. Well, certainly civil rights are the rights of2676everyone. And so, we want to make sure that our schools are2677enforcing--bullying shouldn't happen anywhere. No child should2678be made to feel uncomfortable. So it is--but the Department of2679Education does not control that from Washington.26802681    Senator Blunt Rochester. But would you put this in the2682Department--when we talked, you mentioned the Department of2683Justice. Would you move this to the Department of Justice?26842685    Ms. McMahon. Well, one of the things that we talked about,2686as I said this morning, that I think there may be more2687appropriate places that maybe the Department--OCR that is2688currently in the Department of Education is better served in2689the Department of Justice where they have civil rights2690attorneys as well.26912692    But I don't know those things yet. If I am confirmed, I2693look forward to getting in and really digesting and2694understanding where all of these particular aspects need to fit2695to best serve our students. That is the goal, is to protect our2696students.26972698    Senator Blunt Rochester. I look forward to following up.2699You can understand there is a lot of distrust based on people's2700motivations in just the past few weeks. I think that is why you2701are seeing all of what you have seen in this audience today in2702terms of participation of the folks here.27032704    This is important. Our students are important, as you know.2705And so, I really hope that this Administration and that you2706will recognize that there are students, there are teachers,2707there are parents that need the support and the help. And we2708hope that you will continue as well with your support of HBCUs.27092710    Senator Marshall. Thank you, Senator.27112712    Senator Blunt Rochester. I yield back. Thank you so much,2713Senator Marshall.27142715    Senator Marshall. Thank you so much. Good morning, Ms.2716McMahon. Good to see you.27172718    Ms. McMahon. Thank you. Good to see you too.27192720    Senator Marshall. You bet. Ms. McMahon, when I speak to2721youth, I typically talk about the three pillars of my life,2722faith, family, and education. And thanks to a strong faith, a2723loving family, and the public educators in my life, I was a2724first generation college kid who got to live my American dream2725and become a physician and practice in rural medicine.27262727    This education thing is so important to all of us on both2728sides of the dais. I raised four kids in public schools. And2729unfortunately, I have seen the deterioration of the education2730system. And again, we have the most incredible teachers and2731coaches back home, and I am grateful for all of them, but I2732think we would all agree we are going the wrong direction.27332734    Just really big picture, what would be your top priorities?2735How do we move--how do we change the ship's direction?27362737    Ms. McMahon. Well, certainly the President has given a very2738clear directive that he would like to look in totality at the2739Department of Education and believes that the bureaucracy of it2740should be closed. That we should return education to our2741states. That the best education is that closest to the kids.27422743    That we should work with our local schools, with our2744superintendents, with our parents to make sure that the2745education that our students are getting are the ones that is2746best for them. It is not one size fits all education policy2747throughout the country. Governors have taken great strides in2748putting in schools--implementing school choice, making sure2749that schools have the funding that they need.27502751    We have seen public education in those states actually2752improve. There have been studies to show that. And so, I am2753very hopeful that we will get back to the basics of education2754so that our children can read when they leave third grade, and2755that eighth grade students can do math and reading proficiency.27562757    Today, one-third, only one-third of high school students2758graduating can read proficiently. That means two-thirds can't.2759We are failing our students--our Department of Education. And2760what we are doing today is not working and we need to change2761it.27622763    Senator Marshall. Thank you. Ms. McMahon, should boys,2764biological boys be allowed to compete against girls in sports?27652766    Ms. McMahon. I do not believe that biological boys should2767be able to compete against girls in sports. And I think now2768that they certainly not only have the people spoken, because2769that was something that President Trump ran very hard on, but2770also the court has spoken.27712772    Senator Marshall. Ms. McMahon, I feel like there is a--that2773anti-Semitism has become endemic in our universities. Would you2774be open to some type of an anti-Semitism commission to evaluate2775the progress of the universities on this issue?27762777    Ms. McMahon. Yes, I would. And I would look forward to2778perhaps working with you or other Members of the Committee on2779such a commission.27802781    Senator Marshall. Okay. Let's talk about workforce Pell2782Grants for a second. We can't keep doing what we are doing. The2783average starting salary for graduates from our community2784colleges and technical colleges back home is higher than our 42785year universities, and their debt is close to zero, if not zero2786as well. Would you speak to some more--what do you feel about2787more flexibility of Pell Grants?27882789    Ms. McMahon. Well, I certainly would like to see workforce2790Pell Grants. And it goes through various stages of getting2791passed.27922793    But I definitely think that workforce Pell Grants are2794something that could stimulate our economy, provide opportunity2795for those who are wanting to participate in skilled based2796learning to have the opportunity. If we have short term2797certificates of Pell Grants, that would get those students into2798the workplace faster, if they want to be electricians, HVAC2799developers, or----28002801    Senator Marshall. Apprenticeships as well.28022803    Ms. McMahon. Apprenticeships and internships, all of that.2804In fact, in the first Trump administration, I was part of--with2805SBA, working with the Department of Labor, of making sure that2806there were more apprenticeship programs across the country,2807because those are very, very vital to the growth of not only2808our economy but our businesses in general.28092810    Senator Marshall. Thank you, Ms. McMahon. I appreciate your2811answers and look forward to supporting you. Again, education is2812so important to all of us. To live that American dream, we need2813a strong education system. And I know you are committed to that2814as well. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.28152816    The Chair. Senator Hickenlooper.28172818    Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you,2819Ms. McMahon, for your public service and for coming back and2820going through all this again.28212822    I thought when you were talking to Senator Blunt Rochester2823that your comment that bullying shouldn't happen anywhere2824true--is absolutely true. It shouldn't happen in schools. It2825shouldn't happen in homes. It shouldn't happen in government.28262827    I am not going to go over--I agree on the things so much--2828you have covered anti-Semitism and making sure that there is2829great clarity around that. I want to talk a little bit about2830history and the teaching of history. I used to talk about2831topophilia, which means love of place.28322833    I believe it is a basic building block of economic2834development, of people's affection for a place. And that2835affection comes largely through the teaching of the history of2836that part of your state or your county, however that gets2837broken down. But I think teaching every part of our history is2838important.28392840    Colorado, some of the worst parts of our history, our2841Governor, Ralph Carr, a Republican Governor who was one of the2842few Western Governors who when we were putting large detention2843facilities together for Japanese Americans during World War--at2844the beginning of World War II, he said not only we are not2845going to support that, but any Japanese Americans who want to2846come, should come to live in Colorado and live freely.28472848    We had the Sand Creek massacre where Colorado volunteers2849slaughtered almost 200 mostly women and children. But I think2850you mentioned in your testimony that the importance of teaching2851true history, and I understand the emphasis on positive, but I2852want to make sure that we agree on the teaching of all of it,2853both positive and negatives, just because as any--as an2854entrepreneur, you learn more from your mistakes than from--what2855you do right.28562857    I think making sure that we don't gloss over the troubling2858parts of our history is--that we are not letting that slip2859behind us.28602861    Ms. McMahon. Well, clearly, I do agree that we should teach2862our history, the true history, the good, the bad, and the ugly,2863because we don't learn unless we recognize our mistakes.28642865    I will say that the Department of Education does not2866establish curriculum, but that is something that is handled at2867the state level. But clearly, I am in favor of our history2868being taught exactly as it happened.28692870    Senator Hickenlooper. All right. I appreciate that. And it2871is funny that a lot of people don't. So it is good to get that2872on the record. We talked a little bit about apprenticeships and2873the importance of apprenticeships.28742875    I think the comment you made just that almost two-thirds of2876our kids when they graduate from high school cannot read2877proficiently is a disgrace that we should all not accept. And I2878think, as you recognize, it is not that we don't have good2879teachers. I think we have great teachers in every state.28802881    It is a very powerful statistic that in almost every2882survey, parents think that the school systems are broken except2883theirs. They think their school is pretty good. And I think2884that is a reflection of the quality of teachers we have. But2885this notion that everybody should go to college, I think is2886prevalent and persistent.28872888    You have talked about the importance of alternative career2889pathways. And when you were in the office, we discussed this.2890One of the major issues we hear on trying to push2891apprenticeships, not just to trades, not adult apprenticeships2892at 18, but 16, 17, 18 year olds while they are in high school,2893going and working a couple of days a week in an insurance2894company, could be a law firm, anywhere, but learning what a job2895place looks like, coming back to school and learning things2896that might make them more successful there.28972898    One of the problems is that type of an apprenticeship, so2899many of the academic advisers are just focused on that 4 year2900college track, and that is what the parents are kind of2901expecting. They may not even realize what apprenticeships are2902around there.29032904    What can you do as Secretary of Education to share with2905high schools all across America that these other alternative2906pathways are available?29072908    Ms. McMahon. Well, certainly I have been on record even2909when I ran for the Senate in the State of Connecticut--I ran2910twice and didn't win. But I always talked about how we needed2911skills in our Country.29122913    That we did not have the trades that we need to have today.2914But I also talked about how parents, I think, are encouraging2915their children only to go to college and not necessarily2916recognizing that there are other avenues that those children2917could pursue.29182919    I clearly was a parent who were pushing both my children to2920go to college, but I realize today that there are other2921opportunities for students to succeed and enter into a pathway2922that they will be successful in their lives.29232924    I think apprenticeships, internships, working the public,2925private sector to make sure that we have our curriculum that is2926designed for the needs of the communities and business. I think2927that is incredibly important. That is one of the things that we2928have--was driven to do at Sacred Heart University that I sit on2929the Board of Education.29302931    What are the needs of the community and how can that2932curriculum be structured to satisfy that need? And that is, I2933think, critically important.29342935    Senator Hickenlooper. Great. We are out of time. Of course,2936I have got millions more questions. Maybe we will continue that2937discussion. I appreciate you being open about not wanting to2938end the Department of Education completely and not--your2939willingness to look at Pell Grants on a larger scale. Thank2940you.29412942    The Chair. Senator Banks.29432944    Senator Banks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just as a side2945note, I am struck by the outburst of some of the protesters in2946the room, and a number of them have told us that they are2947teachers.29482949    Can you imagine them teaching--these people teaching our2950kids in classrooms across America, and they come here and act2951like children with outburst and try to prevent us--in attempt2952to prevent us from doing our job to move you forward to do the2953important work that you have to do.29542955    For me, that is what this is all about. I have three2956daughters who are in grade school in public schools, and I want2957to get politics out of the classroom. I want political flags2958and political statements and ideologies out of the classroom. I2959want teachers to teach our kids and prepare them for the jobs2960of the future.29612962    I am very intrigued with what President Trump is talking2963about in dismantling the Federal Department of Education2964because I have served in the State House and the Indiana State2965Constitution devotes a number of chapters to educating our2966kids.29672968    The last time I checked, the Federal Constitution doesn't2969say a single thing about education because our founders, in2970their wisdom, recognized that is a role of the state. And Ms.2971McMahon, I know we have talked about this before, but this is2972about an attitude.29732974    An attitude of empowering teachers and schools and moms and2975dads to give our kids the best chance that they can possibly2976have. And I know that you agree with this, but I want to ask2977anyway, can't the State of Indiana do a whole lot better of a2978job of spending dollars on education rather than bureaucrats in2979Washington, DC?29802981    Ms. McMahon. I certainly believe that to be true, Senator,2982yes. And that is definitely what the President believes as2983well. That I will be repetitive, that education is best handled2984closest to the child, to understand what that child needs and2985what the community needs. And working with parents, parental2986rights are so important in educating our children, and I2987definitely believe that should be returned to the states.29882989    Senator Banks. Speaking of wasting money, the Biden2990Department of Education allocated over $1 billion in grants2991toward diversity, equity and inclusion programs, and that2992included $4 million toward a ``culturally responsive computer2993science camp for high schoolers.'' $1 million to train2994elementary teachers in Iowa on ``equity centered education.''29952996    $38,000 for a 1-day session with an ``equity consultant''2997in Michigan. Countless dollars toward race based hiring, which2998is unconstitutional and unlawful, by the way. Will you commit2999to ending all racial discrimination in government programing at3000the Department of Education?30013002    Ms. McMahon. That will be my goal, absolutely, to work--and3003I look forward to working with you and other Members of the3004Committee as well, and with Congress to make sure that we can3005take the ideology, if you will, out of education and focus on3006actually teaching our students to read and to write and to do3007arithmetic, because they cannot be successful if they cannot do3008the basics.30093010    Senator Banks. Some of my colleagues have talked about the3011rise of anti-Semitism on college campuses, and I think one of3012the motivators of that is money that flows from adversarial3013foreign countries like China and other countries with an anti-3014American agenda that are donated to many of our colleges and3015universities in the United States of America.30163017    It turns out that the Department of Education plays a key3018role in reporting and making those foreign donations3019transparent. Well, I want to ban them altogether. China should3020never be donating money to colleges and universities in Indiana3021or anywhere else in the country.30223023    Have you thought about what other steps that we can take to3024eliminate foreign influences, especially anti-American3025influences, on our college campuses?30263027    Ms. McMahon. Well, I think what we have seen is the lack of3028transparency of where the money comes from, how much, and what3029it is used for when it gets to colleges. And I think there3030absolutely has to be more transparency in tracking that money.30313032    Senator Banks. I hope that I saw what President Trump did3033in the first--in his first term and the 4-years of tightening3034many of the--these donations and blocking them, making them3035transparent.30363037    Then I saw--I served on the Education Committee in the3038House for 8 years. So, 4 years of President Trump, 4 years of3039President Biden. There was no attention paid to this under3040President Biden. Chinese Communist Party dollars flowing to3041colleges, universities that are no longer reported, made3042transparent.30433044    I hope that--I know that will be a big priority of yours3045because we talked about it and I want to do everything I can to3046help you block it, make it--the public should know that3047adversaries of the United States of America are giving money to3048the universities that they are sending their kids to.30493050    Thank you very much for your leadership. You have my full3051support. I look forward to working with you. I yield back.30523053    Ms. McMahon. Thank you.30543055    The Chair. Senator Markey.30563057    Senator Markey. Thank you. Yesterday, President Trump said3058he would like the Department of Education to be closed3059immediately. He called the Department a big con job. Education3060funding helps us work toward a country where every student can3061go to their school knowing that they will get the same3062education as the family that can afford private school. Public3063school is not a con job.30643065    It is equality for every student, regardless of income. It3066helps guarantee that every student, including the 26 million3067low income students, the 10 million rural, 5 million English3068language learners, 7 million disabled students, and 1 million3069homeless can go to public school knowing they have the same3070opportunity as every other student.30713072    Trump's crusade to abolish the Department of Education and3073``root out waste and fraud and corruption''--for cuts to public3074schools is an attack on every public school student, parent,3075teacher, paraprofessional, administrator, and school worker in3076this country.30773078    Waste, fraud, and corruption is code for cuts to public3079education for all of those students. So I have here the text of3080a bill I have been working on. The No Cuts to Public Schools3081Act.30823083    This bill would guarantee that Federal funding to public3084schools could not be cut during the length of President Trump's3085administration. Ms. McMahon, can you commit today to not3086cutting funding for public schools in this country?30873088    Ms. McMahon. Well, certainly what I will commit to, sir, is3089that funding for schools is appropriated by Congress, and that3090funding should continue. Congress will continue to pass those3091laws. The Department of Education is not doing that.30923093    Senator Markey. Will you oppose any cuts to public3094education, yes or no?30953096    Ms. McMahon. Well, the President is not--he is not saying3097that we should cut funding to public education.30983099    Senator Markey. Yes, he is. Yes, he is.31003101    Ms. McMahon. He is simply saying--well, I would disagree3102with you----31033104    Senator Markey. Elon Musk yesterday announced he would3105immediately cut $900 million from the Department of Education,3106and he stood right next to Trump and made that very clear.31073108    The answer I am looking for, by the way, is a yes, I will3109fight to make sure that public funding is not cut because that3110announcement was just made, the $900 million cut, and we know3111that is just a down payment to gut the education of every3112public school student in America.31133114    By the way, to find the billions of dollars that are going3115to be needed for the tax cuts for billionaires and millionaires3116in our Country. They have to go to the Department of Education.3117They have to go to clean air and clean water. They have to go3118to Medicaid. They have to go to the Affordable Care Act.31193120    They have to go for all--to all of the programs that they3121are calling waste, fraud, and corruption, but that is just3122another way of saying the programs that help the poor and the3123sick and the elderly, the disabled in our society. That is what3124we are talking about, because they want all of these programs3125gutted to find the funding for the tax breaks.31263127    DOGE, as it is rumbling through the Department of Education3128right now, just stands for Department of Gutting Education.3129That is what they are doing. They are inside looking at it.3130$900 billion is the down payment.31313132    Ms. McMahon, can you commit today to fight so that not $13133from public schools goes toward paying for tax breaks for3134millionaires and billionaires?31353136    Ms. McMahon. Well, that was certainly a broad view of what3137is going on right now today. We are trying to find waste,3138fraud, and abuse. The DOGE groups that are in the Department of3139Education, from my understanding, have looked at competitive3140contracts that are bidding, and let's see where that money is3141going. How is it being spent? I am not there. If I may,3142Senator----31433144    Senator Markey. What they are doing----31453146    Ms. McMahon. If you ask me a question, I would really like3147the opportunity to answer.31483149    Senator Markey. What they are doing is first, they announce3150the cuts. Then they go to find where it is. So it is all3151backward. And again, we know what the plot is.31523153    Ultimately, the answer I am looking for is a yes because if3154even $1 flows away from an educator or student toward a3155billionaire tax break, that will be immoral in our Country--3156immoral. These kids deserve the funding which they are3157receiving.31583159    Donald Trump and Elon Musk should be ashamed that they are3160working harder for billionaires than they are for working3161families--for these kids who need help. 90 percent of disabled3162students go to public schools.31633164    95 percent of students with disability go to public school.3165And Trump and Musk want to take from those students to give to3166billionaires. That is immoral. It is wrong. It is unjust. And3167we are going to fight it every single step of the way. Thank3168you, Mr. Chairman.31693170    The Chair. Thank you. Senator Markey.31713172    Senator Moody.31733174    Senator Moody. Hello. It is so great to be with you. Thank3175you for joining us today. I would like for you to have some3176time to answer some questions. Wouldn't that be unique? I am3177wondering, one of my very first important questions is, is it3178harder to sit composed and calm and focused among a bunch of3179WWE wrestlers, or is it harder to sit in this hearing with3180people popping up and yelling at you all day?31813182    Ms. McMahon. I can stay pretty composed and focused in3183either environment.31843185    [Laughter.]31863187    Senator Moody. As you know, United States Department of3188Education provides more than $120 billion in grants. And much3189of that flows through to our public university systems. And the3190Higher Education Act makes a condition for higher education to3191receive a single dollar of that money, that higher education3192institution has to be accredited.31933194    Now, that is not by the Department of Education. They have3195delegated that to a private--private entities of persons that3196aren't accountable to voters, aren't accountable to the3197President, and they decide who is accredited--which institution3198actually is eligible to get all that money.31993200    In Florida, we have had the experience that our post-3201secondary institutional accreditor, the Southern Association of3202Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges, also known as3203SACs, has decided that it will threaten that accreditation,3204meaning threaten our Federal funding, if we even suggest that3205maybe a former policy leader, lawmaker, conservative, might go3206into leadership at a university.32073208    Or one of my dear friends, Senator Scott, former Governor3209Scott, had suggested that he was going to go on campus and3210speak about hazing. It seems pretty expected. As a parent, I3211would want that, and our accreditation was threatened. Even in3212North Carolina when they wanted to institute a policy focused3213on--or excuse me, a program focused on ideological diversity,3214their accreditation was threatened.32153216    As Attorney General of Florida, I sued. I think there is a3217Constitutional problem with the Department of Education3218delegating that authority to a private organization who3219dictates whether someone can get Federal funding and tries to3220insert their own preferences and policies down into the3221education policies of a state and force it on our educational3222institutions. So I wanted to talk to you a little bit about3223that today.32243225    I don't think it has just frustrated Florida. I think, yes,3226we were one of the first states to stand up and fight, and go3227to court, and try and stop that. But a lot of the themes that3228you are hearing, especially with some of the nominees, were3229trying to stop unelected bureaucrats or unelected people and3230these private organizations that have been either getting a lot3231of authority or a lot of Federal money pushing policies into3232the states, and we don't think that's right. So I wanted to3233talk to you if--do you think that is right?32343235    Ms. McMahon. No, I don't think that is right.32363237    Senator Moody. If you are confirmed, which I expect that3238you will be, and I hope that you are. I am very impressed----32393240    Ms. McMahon. Thank you.32413242    Senator Moody [continuing]. Not only with your--some of3243your educational participation in your own state, but your3244managerial experience. I think we need that right now. But will3245you commit to me that you will look into some of the3246regulations and guidance documents that relate to higher3247education institutions being able to change their accreditors?32483249    Ms. McMahon. Yes, definitely. And I look forward to working3250with you on that. And there has been a lot of issues raised3251about these five to seven accreditors that are the ones that3252are deciding these fates today, and I think that needs to have3253a broad overview and review.32543255    Senator Moody. It may be that we have to look at the3256accreditation process. And as Congress, we might need to amend3257the Higher Education Act to make them more accountable. But I3258do believe, and we are still in litigation in Florida.32593260    I say we--I am trying to change hats now as Senator Moody,3261but Florida still in litigation about this issue, because I do3262think it is a Constitutional problem for an agency to delegate3263that kind of authority over to a private organization.32643265    I think a lot of that delegation is really where you are3266seeing states getting frustrated, people getting frustrated,3267because in these agencies and in these private organizations,3268you are seeing an ideological agenda, a policy driven agenda,3269and people that are willing to implement it, whether they have3270the authority or not, and I believe that is where you are3271seeing so much frustration and why you saw such an overwhelming3272expectation that this President change things.32733274    I think you are going to help him do that, and I, for one,3275am looking forward to that. Thank you, Chairman.32763277    Ms. McMahon. Thank you. Thank you very much.32783279    The Chair. Thank you, Senator Moody.32803281    Now it is Senator Kim's turn.32823283    Senator Kim. Yes, thank you, Chairman. Thank you for coming3284before us. I guess I just wanted to jump in. I have heard a3285couple of times you mentioned that you believe that Congress3286would need to be involved if there is an effort to abolish the3287Department of Education. That is right?32883289    Ms. McMahon. Correct.32903291    Senator Kim. Do you know if President Trump shares that3292sentiment?32933294    Ms. McMahon. I have heard President Trump recently over the3295last couple of weeks--in conjunction with his fervor to shut3296down the bureaucracy of the Department of Education, he has3297also stated that he will work with Congress to make that3298happen.32993300    Senator Kim. Do you know if Elon Musk has had any3301conversations with him about the Department of Education--him3302or his team?33033304    Ms. McMahon. I have not.33053306    Senator Kim. Why I raise this is that I just came from3307another hearing that was talking about foreign assistance,3308talking about USAID.33093310    USAID is another element of our Federal Government that was3311codified by Congress, and we see an effort there to dismantle3312it. Not fully abolish it but dismantle it basically down to3313about 600 people. Gut everything.33143315    Put it under the State Department. So I guess, I wanted to3316just ask you, if something like that was proposed by the Trump3317administration for the Department of Education, does that have3318to come to Congress?33193320    Ms. McMahon. Certainly there are departments that I believe3321that are in the Department of Education by statute, and those3322have to be looked at.33233324    Senator Kim. What elements of the Department of Education3325are those that are protected by statute?33263327    Ms. McMahon. I believe IDEA is. I think Title I is. And I3328would like to discuss that--look into it and discuss it more3329fully with you.33303331    Senator Kim. But for those that are not codified by3332statute, you are saying those are ones that the executive3333branch can do as they please?33343335    Ms. McMahon. Well, I think that I would like to look into3336that more.33373338    Senator Kim. Why I kind of mentioned this as well is that3339just in the first couple of weeks here we had a lot of3340conversation about the surge of anti-Semitism, our strong3341support, and make sure we are protecting students from that3342type of harassment, from that type of intimidation.33433344    Absolutely something we need to stand against in terms of3345anti-Semitism. But I guess I was alarmed because what we ended3346up seeing is there are multiple attorneys and other staff3347members of the Department's Office of Civil Rights that have3348been placed on administrative leave with no notice, no3349explanation.33503351    Some of them were in the process of investigating cases3352directly related to anti-Semitic harassment. So I guess I3353wanted to just ask you, is that something you would support? Do3354you think that is the right actions that we should be taking at3355this time that we see such a surge in anti-Semitism?33563357    Ms. McMahon. Well, Senator Kim, I know that it is not a3358great comfort for me to say this morning that I am not yet3359confirmed, have not yet been in the Department. I don't know3360about all the administrative people that have been put on3361leave.33623363    I want to look into that. I want to understand it. I want3364to assess the Department. I can't do that unless I am3365confirmed, and I get there. But I would certainly be willing to3366come back to you with a more specific answer.33673368    Senator Kim. But does that concern you at all if--when3369you--if you were confirmed, would you make that a priority to3370go and see whether or not this is going to impact our ability3371to respond to the anti-Semitism?33723373    Ms. McMahon. No, I would want to make sure that we have3374everything that we need to have in place to protect our3375students on campuses.33763377    Senator Kim. One thing that we see in having this debate on3378here in Congress is about this, and what we have seen is that3379Republicans have called for a 25 percent cut in the budget of3380the Office of Civil Rights. Is that something you would3381support?33823383    Ms. McMahon. I would--again, I would want to see exactly3384what that impact is going to be and understand it.33853386    Senator Kim. Look, I guess I just, I am frustrated because3387I feel like this is such a clear place where we can just say,3388yes, we want to make sure we have as much resources as possible3389to be able to fight anti-Semitism, to make sure that we are3390addressing these needs. Such a surge--when we see a surge in3391anti-Semitism, of course, we would want a surge in resources to3392focus on that.33933394    I just wanted to raise that because this whole debate that3395we are having right now, it feels like it is untethered from3396just the reality on the ground. And I just urge you, if you are3397confirmed, that we are understanding the human impact of the3398problems that are here. I have a second grader and a fourth3399grader. I have got two little boys. And I just had their3400parent-teacher conference.34013402    Yes, we talked through the performance of my kids, the data3403that NAEP and others are using, the Institute for Education3404Science, and now we are seeing $900 million cuts to that coming3405out from Elon Musk and his team. But I just raise this is--the3406reason why teachers are concerned right now.34073408    It is not about their own salaries and their own careers.3409When they talk to me, they talk about the kids. They talk about3410the kids. That is like--I find that to be so powerful when3411these teachers, they are saying, look, like I am not asking3412about my own career.34133414    I am asking about the kids. So just as you proceed, just3415remember that. Parents are very scared right now. And I yield.34163417    The Chair. Thank you, Senator Kim.34183419    Senator Alsobrooks.34203421    Senator Alsobrooks. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I3422would like to just begin my remarks--hello. Thank you so much,3423Ms. McMahon, for being here today. And I would like to just3424begin to follow-up with what my colleague said and address what3425I regard as very disparaging comments, I would just like to say3426first, by one of my colleagues regarding the educators who have3427come here today.34283429    In the same vein as Senator Kim, the educators who are3430here, my colleague referred to them as these people, and said,3431who would want to be taught by these people. The passionate3432educators who have come here today, not on behalf of3433themselves, they are here on behalf of our children, and I want3434to address how shameful it was to say who would want to be3435taught by them.34363437    They are exactly the kind of people who we want teaching3438our children. The question I have for you today, I know your3439parents were civil servants and so you recognize the importance3440that they bring to their work, the care and concern that they3441bring to their work. And I have been very concerned regarding3442the treatment of many of our civil servants, those especially3443in the Department of Education.34443445    You may know that last night a number of them were laid off3446with 15 minutes to have their computers turned off, access to3447it. Just treated really horribly. So the question I have for3448you, because one of my constituents on a town hall I hosted3449last night with 17,000 Marylanders, said that they are working3450in a culture of fear at the Department, and that civil servants3451at the Department don't know who will be fired next, have3452little guidance, and feel like they can't do their jobs--and3453they care very much about the work they are doing.34543455    How will you address the culture of fear in an environment3456where civil servants, both Democrats and Republicans, who are3457working that are feeling undervalued and attacked by this3458Administration?34593460    Ms. McMahon. Well, thank you very much for that question,3461Senator. And it is always difficult to downsize. It is always3462difficult to restructure and reorganize in any department. I3463have faced that in the business world, because you know what3464you do impact people's lives.34653466    But at this particular point, I know that there are people3467that have been placed on administrative leave, which means they3468are still receiving full benefits and salary while their jobs3469are being looked at and how the Department is being evaluated3470overall.34713472    I think people should always be treated with respect and3473with humility, and I would hope that is what is going on within3474the Department of Education. I am not there in person to see3475that yet, but it would certainly be something that I would3476strive to do in any reorganization that we would take.34773478    Senator Alsobrooks. Okay. And I would also like to ask you,3479regarding the President's targeting of legally binding3480collective bargaining agreements. He has really targeted those.3481To ask you whether you will commit to abiding by the agreement3482in upholding civil service employment protections?34833484    Ms. McMahon. I will certainly commit to working with you3485and to looking into those issues if I am confirmed to be the3486Secretary of Education.34873488    Senator Alsobrooks. Also to ask you whether you will commit3489to ensuring that Federal workers with disabilities--many of3490them are very concerned about whether they will continue to3491have reasonable accommodations as required by law.34923493    Ms. McMahon. Well, as required by law is the key phrase3494there. Yes.34953496    Senator Alsobrooks. Okay. Well, in the same vein, there are3497some who are concerned about being forced now to reapply for3498accommodations.34993500    These are people who have had those accommodations given to3501them and they are being told now that they must reapply for3502those accommodations with their supervisors. And so, will you3503commit that the Department's civil servants with disabilities3504will have their reasonable accommodations honored without3505interference or delay?35063507    Ms. McMahon. I will certainly commit time there and if3508confirmed to look into all of those and to get back to you.35093510    Senator Alsobrooks. Okay. And finally, I would like to ask3511you, regarding the freezing of funds, if you are confirmed,3512would you support any directive from the President to freeze3513funds that have been appropriated by Congress, including funds3514that students and families rely on to pay for college?35153516    Ms. McMahon. If they have been appropriated by Congress,3517those funds should be disseminated.35183519    Senator Alsobrooks. Okay. And so, you would block any3520directive--you would not adhere to any directive, including3521some of our HBCU's in my state, Bowie, Coppin State, Morgan3522State, you would not interfere with the freezing of those3523funds?35243525    Ms. McMahon. I would commit to you that I will look into3526every single one of those programs so that I can get back to3527you and say, this is what I have found. This is what I have3528discovered. This is what--the action that is being taken3529against it or in--for it, because I want to be very inclusive3530with you on that regard.35313532    Senator Alsobrooks. Okay. Final question. I just have 93533seconds here--Title I. I know that you said you support it. If3534the Department of Education is dismantled, what will you do to3535protect the students who rely, who are disadvantaged and3536impoverished, on Title I funds.35373538    Ms. McMahon. Well, Title I funds are appropriated by3539Congress. They flow directly to the states today. They go to3540the State Department of Education and are deployed to the3541districts. So the Department of Education is not really3542involved in that distribution.35433544    Senator Alsobrooks. Okay. Thank you so much.35453546    The Chair. Thank you. Thank you, Senator Alsobrooks.35473548    Senator Sanders.35493550    Senator Sanders. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I ask unanimous3551consent to enter into the record 18 letters opposing Ms.3552McMahon as Secretary of Education.35533554    [The following information can be found on page 265 in3555Additional Material:]35563557    The Chair. So ordered. I will now conclude but let me first3558say that the Capitol Police are requesting that the audience3559remain seated until Ms. McMahon leaves. So just to first say3560that.35613562    Ms. McMahon, thank you very much for being here. You have3563handled yourself extremely well. I now ask for unanimous3564consent to enter into the record 55 letters of support for Ms.3565McMahon's nomination.35663567    [The following information can be found on page 345 in3568Additional Material:]35693570    The Chair. This concludes our hearing. For any Senators who3571wish to ask additional questions, questions for the record will3572be due tomorrow at 5.00 p.m.. Once more, audience, please stay3573seated until Ms. McMahon leaves. Thank you.35743575    Ms. McMahon. Thank you very much.35763577                          ADDITIONAL MATERIAL35783579[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]35803581    [Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]35823583                                [all]