Hearings to examine the nominations of Brian Nesvik, of Wyoming, to be Director of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service, and Jessica Kramer, of Wisconsin, and Sean Donahue, of Florida, both to be an Assistant Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency.

1[Senate Hearing 119-279]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                                                        S. Hrg. 119-27956HEARING ON THE NOMINATIONS OF BRIAN NESVIK TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE UNITED7  STATES FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE, JESSICA KRAMER TO BE AN ASSISTANT8ADMINISTRATOR OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, AND SEAN DONAHUE9TO BE AN ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY1011=======================================================================1213                                HEARING1415                               before the1617                              COMMITTEE ON18                      ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS1920                          UNITED STATES SENATE2122                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2324                             FIRST SESSION25                               __________2627                             MARCH 26, 202528                               __________2930  Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works3132                [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3334        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov35                                 ______3637                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE383962-698                     WASHINGTON : 20264041               COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS4243                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS4445                             FIRST SESSION4647             SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia, Chairman48            SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island, Ranking Member4950KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota           BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont51CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming           JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon52JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah                 EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts53LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina    MARK KELLY, Arizona54DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska                 ALEX PADILLA, California55PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska              ADAM B. SCHIFF, California56ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi         LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware57JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas               ANGELA D. ALSOBROOKS, Maryland58JON HUSTED, Ohio5960               Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director61                  Dan Dudis, Democratic Staff Director6263                            C O N T E N T S6465                              ----------66                                                                   Page6768                             MARCH 26, 20256970                           OPENING STATEMENTS7172Capito, Hon. Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from the State of West73  Virginia.......................................................     174Whitehouse, Hon. Sheldon, U.S. Senator from the State of Rhode75  Island.........................................................     376Lummis, Hon. Cynthia, U.S. Senator from the State of Wyoming.....    167778                               WITNESSES7980Gordon, Hon. Mark, Governor from the State of Wyoming............     581    Prepared statement...........................................     882Barrasso, Hon. John, U.S. Senator from the State of Wyoming......    1283    Prepared statement...........................................    1384Nesvik, Brian, Nominee to be Director of the United States Fish85  and Wildlife Service...........................................    1786    Prepared statement...........................................    2087    Responses to additional questions from:88        Senator Cramer...........................................    2389        Senator Husted...........................................    2390        Senator Whitehouse.......................................    2491        Senator Merkley..........................................    3092        Senator Markey...........................................    3093        Senator Schiff...........................................    3394        Senator Blunt Rochester..................................    3795Kramer, Jessica, Nominee to be an Assistant Administrator of the96  Environmental Protection Agency................................    3897    Prepared statement...........................................    4098    Responses to additional questions from:99        Senator Cramer...........................................    42100        Senator Husted...........................................    43101        Senator Whitehouse.......................................    43102        Senator Merkley..........................................    46103        Senator Markey...........................................    48104        Senator Blunt Rochester..................................    49105Donahue, Sean, Nominee to be an Assistant Administrator of the106  Environmental Protection Agency................................    51107    Prepared statement...........................................    53108    Responses to additional questions from:109        Senator Wicker...........................................    58110        Senator Whitehouse.......................................    59111        Senator Merkley..........................................    62112        Senator Schiff...........................................    64113114                          ADDITIONAL MATERIAL115116Letter of support for Brian Nesvik to Senator Capito, Senator117  Whitehouse, Senator Ricketts, and Senator Schiff from National118  Audubon Society................................................    92119Letters of support for Brian Nesvik to Senator Capito and Senator120  Whitehouse from:...............................................121    Association of Fish & Wildlife Agencies......................    93122    Boone and Crockett Club......................................    94123    Ducks Unlimited..............................................    95124    American Sportfishing Association and multiple other125      organizations..............................................    97126    National Alliance of Forest Owners...........................    99127    National Association for Biomedical Research.................   101128    National Stone, Sand & Gravel Association....................   102129    National Cattlemen's Beef Association and Public Lands130      Council and two other organizations........................   103131Letters of support for Brian Nesvik to Senator Capito from:132    Wyoming Wildlife Federation..................................   105133    National Association of Conservation Law Enforcement Chiefs..   107134    Wyoming Outfitters & Guide Association.......................   109135    Wyoming Stock Growers Association............................   111136    Wyoming Wildlife & Natural Resource Trust....................   112137Letters of support for Jessica Kramer to Senator Capito and138  Senator Whitehouse from:139    American Water Works Association.............................   114140    Association of Metropolitan Water Agencies...................   115141    Coalition of Recyclers of Residual Organics by Practitioner142      of Sustainability..........................................   117143    Dave Ross, former assistant administrator, Office of Water,144      EPA........................................................   119145    National Association of Clean Water Agencies.................   121146    National Rural Water Association.............................   124147    National Stone, Sand & Gravel Association....................   126148    National Water Resources Association.........................   127149    Northwest Biosolids Association..............................   129150    Xylem, Inc...................................................   130151Letters of Public Financial Disclosure from nominees:152    Jessica Kramer...............................................   132153    Brian R. Nesvik..............................................   133154    Sean Donahue.................................................   136155156HEARING ON THE NOMINATIONS OF BRIAN NESVIK TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE UNITED157  STATES FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE, JESSICA KRAMER TO BE AN ASSISTANT158ADMINISTRATOR OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, AND SEAN DONAHUE159TO BE AN ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY160161                              ----------162163                       WEDNESDAY, MARCH 26, 2025164165                                       U.S. Senate,166                 Committee on Environment and Public Works,167                                                    Washington, DC.168    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m. in169room 406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Shelley Moore170Capito (chairman of the committee) presiding.171    Present: Senators Capito, Whitehouse, Cramer, Lummis,172Sullivan, Ricketts, Wicker, Boozman, Husted, Merkley, Kelly,173Padilla, Schiff, Blunt Rochester, Alsobrooks.174175        OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO,176          U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA177178    Senator Capito. Good morning, and thank you for everybody179who is here today. I am pleased to welcome everyone to today's180hearing where we will consider the nominations of Brigadier181General Brian Nesvik to serve as Director of the U.S. Fish and182Wildlife Service, Jessica Kramer to serve as Assistant183Administrator for the Office of Water, and Sean Donahue to184serve as General Counsel at the EPA.185    General Nesvik has more than 29 years of experience with186the Wyoming Game and Fish Department prior to his retirement187last September, where he was going to go ranching permanently,188until he told me when he came to see. He has a little peek in189the system here, and we are glad he does.190    During his tenure with the Department, he served in various191roles including Chief Game Warden and Wildlife Division Chief,192until ultimately being appointed the Director in 2019.193    Wyoming is a world-renowned destination for hunters and194anglers and General Nesvik led the State's wildlife management195programs ensuring that the conservation of species and196recreational existence can coexist for generations to come.197    Simultaneously to his full-time job with the Wyoming Game198and Fish, General Nesvik served in the Wyoming Army National199Guard. His service included deployments to Kuwait and Iraq in200progressively more senior leaderships, culminating in his final201posting as the commander the Wyoming Army National Guard. After20235 years of service, General Nesvik retired from the National203Guard in 2021 at the rank of Brigadier General. Thank you,204General Nesvik, for your service to our Country.205    The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, or the Service, needs206greater structure and efficiency. It will benefit to have a207former general as its Director.208    As the director of the Service, General Nesvik will be209tasked with overseeing the operations of the agency, to210conserve and manage our Nation's wildlife and natural habitats.211Under the Biden Administration, the Endangered Species Act was212leveraged to slow down and sometimes even halt infrastructure213projects going through the Federal permitting process. We must214be able to efficiently permit projects while protecting215wildlife and natural habitats at the same time.216    General Nesvik will oversee many other issues, such as the217management of the 570 national wildlife refuges and218implementation of congressionally authorized conservation219programs. I trust that his background will offer him a unique220perspective on how the Service can better manage wildlife221programs and protect species without hindering critical222infrastructure projects. I look forward to hearing his223testimony.224    This morning we will also hear from Jess Kramer. We call225her Jess, Jessica, Jess, President Trump's nominee to serve as226the Assistant Administrator for the Office of Water. This227committee has a long tradition of working in a bipartisan228manner to strengthen environmental policies, improve water229infrastructure and ensure Federal regulations are effective,230not unnecessarily burdensome. Clean water is not a partisan231issue. it is essential to the health, safety and economic well-232being of every American.233    The Office of Water plays a critical role in ensuring234access to safe and reliable water for all Americans. That means235ensuring Federal programs like the State Revolving Funds are236effective, addressing Perfluoroalkyl carboxylic acids, PFAS,237contamination without undue burdens on ratepayers, and working238with State and local governments to streamline permitting.239    Jess is well-qualified to lead the EPA's Water Office. She240has built a career crafting practical, bipartisan solutions to241improve water policy and ensure communities, regardless of242their size and geography. She has also worked to have access to243safe and reliable drinking water and wastewater infrastructure.244    During Jess's time working with me on the Environment and245Public Works, EPW, committee, she played a key role in shaping246the water provisions in the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs247Act, IIJA, securing historic investments to modernize drinking248water and wastewater systems, remove lead service lines, and249address emerging contaminants.250    Beyond her experience on Capitol Hill, she has served in251both State and Federal roles, most recently as the Deputy252Secretary of Regulatory Programs at the Florida Department of253Environmental Protection, where she oversaw critical programs254related to water quality, permitting, and enforcement. Jess255understands that environmental protection and economic growth256can go hand in hand, and she knows how to ensure regulations257are clear, fair, and based on sound science.258    This morning, we will also hear from Sean Donahue, the259nominee to serve as General Counsel at the EPA. The EPA's260Office of General Counsel serves as the chief legal advisor to261the agency, providing critical guidance on implementing262environmental laws like the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act,263the Safe Drinking Water Act, and the Superfund.264    The General Counsel plays a central role in shaping EPA's265policies, ensuring legal compliance, defending the agency from266legal challenges, and advising on matters that impact267communities nationwide. The office also works closely with268Congress, EPA regional offices, and enforcement teams to269provide the legal foundation for strong environmental270protections.271    Mr. Donahue has served for three years in the prior Trump272Administration at the EPA as a Special Advisor, including273working in the agency's Office of Land and Emergency274Management. After working at the agency, Mr. Donahue joined a275law firm in Buffalo, New York where he practiced environmental276law. In 2024, he served as a counsel for a solar energy277development company in New York State.278    In 2025, Mr. Donahue was appointed Principal Deputy General279Counsel at the EPA. He currently serves as a Special Advisor in280the EPA Administrator's Office. With his experience in both281private practice and at the agency, I look forward to hearing282more about Sean Donahue's qualifications and vision for this283important role.284    With that, I now recognize my Ranking Member, Senator285Whitehouse. I would like to welcome Senator Barrasso, and we286will give him a chance here to introduce the General shortly.287    Thank you.288289         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE,290          U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND291292    Senator Whitehouse. Thanks very much.293    I would like to take my time this morning to discuss294something that is going on with the Greenhouse Gas Reduction295Fund, which is a fund that was appropriated by Congress,296obligated and the funds disbursed to a private fiscal agent,297Citibank. It relates to climate and because the President298insists falsely that climate change is a hoax, people who are299subordinate to him feel obligated to go after this Greenhouse300Gas Reduction Fund.301    The problem is that the manner in which they have gone302after it reflects the actual weaponization of the Department of303Justice in ways that the prosecutions of President Trump never304saw. It begins with the interim United States Attorney saying305publicly, before he is even in office, that this fund is total306graft and needs to be stopped. He has already announced his307predilections about that. This fund includes nefarious actors308like Habitat for Humanity.309    The veto clock had run, so there was no role to undo the310funding. It was even disbursed, as I mentioned. What they had311to do was to try to cook up a way to freeze the fund. The way312they tried to cook up to freeze the fund was to create a313pretend criminal investigation, and then they could point to314the criminal investigation and tell Citibank to freeze the315funds pending the criminal investigation.316    The problem was, there was no evidence of any crime. That317became apparent when the ask went from interim U.S. Attorney318Martin to the Chief of the Criminal Division in the U.S.319Attorney's Office for the District of Columbia and was told by320the Chief, there is no crime here, I cannot do that.321    Rather than stop, what he did was force the resignation,322fired, the career criminal chief. This is a guy who has never323been a prosecutor before, and he is firing the criminal chief.324    That is a pretty big red flag, when you get an answer from325the career staff saying, boss, there is no crime here, and then326you fire them for telling you that.327    Then he tried to shop this notion around the office, and no328career U.S. Attorney would sign. I have been a U.S. Attorney.329It is almost unfathomable for a U.S. Attorney's office to send330out a pleading without a career attorney being involved.331    He could not get a career attorney, another big red flag.332Then he went forward himself. Again, this is not an experienced333prosecutor, this is not somebody who brings a lot of game with334him. He just wanted to do it.335    With no support from the career people in the office, he336went forward alone. The alone bid is another very strong signal337that something is very badly amiss in what is going on.338    Then, going ahead solo, as the interim U.S. Attorney, he339went before a magistrate judge who said, no dice, you have340nothing here. He shot him down. For a U.S. Attorney's office to341be shot down over a warrant application is like a hospital342never event. If that ever happened in Rhode Island when I was a343U.S. Attorney, there would be after-action investigations,344reports, what the hell went on here, because you never want to345put your Federal judges in a position where they have to shoot346down a warrant application of yours. You want to make sure that347they are iron-clad.348    This failure by the U.S. Attorney to get the magistrate349judge to go along with him, that is yet another red flag350flying. Then after that, they started shopping it around other351U.S. Attorneys' offices. That is also pretty much unheard of.352    What resulted was something I have never seen before, which353is a letter out of the FBI recommending a temporary freeze. I354do not know any procedure for doing that. It had no sign-off355from anybody in any U.S. Attorney's office. Again, it is just356bizarre incident after bizarre incident after bizarre incident357after bizarre incident.358    In the backdrop to this are out of court statements made by359Lee Zeldin, our EPA guy, and Ed Martin, this interim U.S.360Attorney, derogatory, about the bank and the recipients of the361program. It started with graft, but they went on to make362allegations of fraud and criminality.363    Well, there are a number of things that are wrong with364that. First is, allegations of fraud and criminality are365defamatory per se. It is not the kind of stuff anybody should366be saying about anybody else falsely.367    It is particularly bad when it is the prosecutive branch368that is saying things falsely about people that they are either369seeking to investigate or are investigating or are prosecuting.370The U.S. Attorney's Manual, now call the Justice Manual, is371rife with warnings, not only to the Department of Justice372employees, but to the agencies working together on373investigations, that you do not say derogatory things about374people while you are investigating them. You let your pleadings375do the talking. That is Federal prosecution 101.376    All of these false statements that are being made, they had377the chance to try to prove their false statements, by the way,378and a Federal judge took a look at the best they could do and379said, there is no evidence here of any criminality, period. You380have the magistrate judge who shot down the warrant, and you381have the Federal judge who shot down the argument that there382was fraud or criminality here. Yet they persist.383    The aberration here from proper prosecutive process is384really telling, and both in this committee and the Judiciary385Committee, I am going to keep digging at this. Over and over386and over again, there are multiple red flags flying of387prosecutorial misconduct, of legal violations, and ultimately388probably you will find out from civil litigation, either under38942 U.S. Code Section 1983, or in a straight defamation case,390what the heck went on.391    I can tell you, Madam Chair, as somebody who has had to sit392in that seat as a U.S. Attorney, everything about this stinks393to high heaven and we need to get to the bottom of it.394    Thanks for letting me take the time to discuss this when we395have the witnesses here today, and we have my beloved friend,396Senator Barrasso, and Governor Gordon here.397    Senator Capito. All right, well, thank you, Senator398Whitehouse.399    We will now turn to introductions of the nominees. This400morning we have the pleasure of being joined by Governor Mark401Gordon and Senator John Barrasso from the great State of402Wyoming, which Senator Lummis, also here, as we are privileged403to have her on the committee.404    Governor, thank you so much for being here, and I will405recognize you for your introductory remarks.406407                STATEMENT OF HON. MARK GORDON,408               GOVERNOR FROM THE STATE OF WYOMING409410    Governor Gordon. Thank you, Madam Chairman Capito, Ranking411Member Whitehouse, distinguished members of the committee. My412friends Cynthia, John, great to see you. I am Mark Gordon, 33d413Governor of the 44th State. I want to thank you for this414opportunity to be here to provide a brief introduction to Brian415Nesvik, President Trump's nominee to become the 19th Director416of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.417    Before I do that, though, I want to say how nice it is to418see my friend Cynthia here, and to know that there are other419Senators here like Senator Ricketts that I have served with420before.421    It is a particular pleasure to be able to introduce my422former director of Wyoming's Game and Fish Agency, retired423National Guard Brigadier General, and most importantly, close424friend. Brian could not be more qualified and suited to serve425in this important and pivotal role.426    Before I highlight his impressive career, I want to427acknowledge Brian's remarkable family and especially his wife,428Penny, to whom I owe an enormous apology. I really did not429think Brian would ever consider this position, having just430retired from the Game and Fish, but I knew he was the right431person for the job, and I knew how much he was looking forward432to getting back to the ranch and spending more time with his433family.434    Then I am not sure why any of us, that any of us had any435idea where we might be in 6 months after we packed up camp last436September in four inches of freshly fallen snow. For that437matter, I do not think any of us expected to see a young438grizzly forced so close to the trail 60 minutes into our ride439out from the Absarokas on a very sloppy, cold, wet, snowy,440lightning and thunder filled day.441    One thing I do know is that Brian has an abiding commitment442to his family, to this Nation, and to service. Members of the443committee, it is my honor to introduce Brian Nesvik, a man for444whom I have the upmost respect. I have known and worked with445Brian for many years. I asked him to be director of our Game446and Fish six years ago when I became Governor.447    Though I could just as easily asked him to become my448adjutant general for Wyoming's National Guard, where he served44935 years, retiring as a Brigadier General in 2021. We share a450friend, who neighbored my ranch and served with Brian in Iraq.451Terry told me stories of a game warden who could rope, ride,452shoe a horse and lead men. He told me this fellow had a good453sense of humor and an unparalleled ability to find solutions to454difficult circumstances. Brian also has 29 years of experience455with the Wyoming Game and Fish, our Nation's first such agency.456    Wyoming understood how critical it was to preserve and457recover wildlife at the turn of the last century, when Wyoming458people came to realize, if we were not careful about our459wildlife management, we would lose one of the most precious460assets in what made our State the place where the deer and the461antelope play.462    Wyoming is home to the Nation's first national park, first463national forest, first national monument. Our conservation464ethic runs deep in our DNA. It is an ethic spoken of in Teddy465Roosevelt's New Nationalism speech, which I know you all know:466``Conservation means development as much as it does protection.467I recognize the right and duty of this generation to develop468and use the natural resources of our land, but I do not469recognize the right to waste them or to rob by wasteful use the470generations that come after us.''471    As ranchers, my wife and I are committed to stewardship. We472were proud to partner with our neighbors and the Game and Fish473to conserve sage grouse habitat in one of Wyoming's core areas.474Brian exemplifies Wyoming's approach to fostering stewardship,475working with stakeholders across all interest groups. He476recognized what Aldo Leopold articulated in his opus Game477Management: ``The central thesis of game management is this.478Game can be restored by the creative use of the same tools479which have heretofore destroyed it, the axe, plow, cow, fire,480and gun.''481    Brian's real world, on the ground experience, managing482Wyoming's 800 species of fish and wildlife, made him an483outstanding director of our Game and Fish, and will be a484tremendous asset to the Trump Administration and our Country.485Brian has taken part in and led Wyoming's efforts to486successfully recover some of the world's most charismatic487megafauna. In Wyoming, that is grizzly bears, gray wolves, as488well as some of our treasured species that were declared489extinct like the black footed ferret, which our Game and Fish490recovered.491    His leadership continued to keep Wyoming free of492destructive zebra and quagga mussels, especially with493interstate transport concerns and new vectors, such as aquarium494plants. He is a strong leader, a humble leader, who brings a495sense of mission and professionalism to any critical496conversation.497    For example, Brian oversaw the development of the State's498chronic wasting disease management plan, one of the most499challenging wildlife diseases impacting deer, elk, and moose,500on the landscape today. He has been a leader for the Nation and501worked to prevent wildlife vehicle collisions, ensure wildlife502can move freely through wildlife crossing and preserving503migration routes for big game.504    Alongside the Wyoming legislature, Brian led in efforts to505reform the State's most challenging wildlife management issues506under the Wyoming Wildlife Task Force. With a background in law507enforcement and as a game warden, he has enforced and overseen508game laws, ensuring the value of North America's wildlife509remains intact.510    Brian is truly masterful in developing bipartisan511relationships at all levels, in bringing together sportsmen,512outfitters, conservationists, and those who enjoy the outdoors,513for sound, durable policymaking.514    Brian's leadership on behalf of the State of Wyoming has515been exemplary, while it has not been easy. As I mentioned,516Brian has had to wrestle with some of the most challenging517issues facing wildlife today, from our work to recognize our518State's primary role in managing grizzly bears to recovering519the black footed ferret from extinction.520    Brian understands these issues. He knows the science and he521knows who to call.522    He can be assiduous. Brian and I were discussing outlaw523horses on our previous pack trip to the most remote part of the524lower 48, Cynthia, you know that place, and the injuries we525have received because of their behaviors. I told him about a526flashy little gray that had dumped me on my head in front of my527eight-year-old daughter years ago, and he told me about a roan528that had bucked him off and broken his wrist after a day529working cattle. He told me he was going to sell that roan to530someone, so nobody would get hurt. There the roan was at our531camp on the Wood River last fall, bucking panniers off on day532five.533    I thought he was gone, I said, though I know he was an534optimist at heart. He replied, well, I thought he'd pack all535right. Brian ought to know. I can think of no one who has spent536more time outdoors or knows more about the outdoors than Brian.537    Chairman Capito, Ranking Member Whitehouse, and members of538the committee, thank you for this opportunity and for your539forbearance on my overtime. It is an honor to be here.540    [The prepared statement of Governor Gordon follows:]541542    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]543544    Senator Capito. Thank you, Governor. Thank you for being545here.546    Senator Barrasso, former Chair.547548               STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,549             U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WYOMING550551    Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Madam Chairman, thank you,552Ranking Member Whitehouse, members of the committee. Thank you553for allowing me to take just a few moments to help in joining554in the introduction of Brian Nesvik. He has been nominated to555be the head of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. It is556critical to Wyoming and the Nation. It is an agency that plays557a crucial role in the conservation and management of our558Nation's natural resources.559    This agency serves as the cornerstone of our efforts to560protect wildlife while following the best available science.561From managing national wildlife refuges to implementing562programs that enhance habitat restoration, the U.S. Fish and563Wildlife Service are the front lines preserving our Nation's564resources.565    Over the last four years, politics has driven much of the566agency's decisions rather than following the science. For567example, the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem population of568grizzly bears has been fully recovered for 20 years. Republican569Administrations, Democrat Administrations, all agreed for 20570years. Grizzly bear, fully recovered.571    In my home State of Wyoming, we are proud of its lead role572in leading this recovery and investing over $50 million to this573end. Brian Nesvik played a large role in advocating for Wyoming574and advancing these policies.575    He served as the Wyoming Game and Fish Director since 2019576until his retirement in September. He grew up in Cheyenne,577graduated from Cheyenne East High School, went on to earn a578Bachelor of Science degree in wildlife and fisheries biology579and management from the University of Wyoming. He was selected580by the Wyoming Game and Fish Department to serve as a wildlife581law enforcement technician in 1995. He has dealt with582significant endangered species issues all the way throughout,583involving both grizzly bears and wolves.584    He dealt with complex elk management challenges in herds of585the elk around Yellowstone National Park. In March 2019, he was586appointed to be the Director of Wyoming Game and Fish, but587additionally, I actually first met him when he served in the588Wyoming Army National Guard. He has been in the Guard since5891986. Currently serves as the Commanding General for the590Wyoming National Guard and Assistant Adjutant General, holding591the rank of Brigadier General. I visited with him when he was592leading troops in Kuwait, and Cynthia was there with me on that593trip. We were there for Thanksgiving with him, where we saw594that he was a respected and admired leader of the troops.595    He served as a commander of two deployments to Operational596Iraqi Freedom in Baghdad and southern Iraq and in Kuwait. In5972005, he was awarded the Bronze Star medal by the U.S. Army for598his service. He is a graduate of the Army War College, holds a599Master of Science degree in strategic studies. He is smart, he600is capable, he is strategic.601    I want to congratulate him on his nomination. I look602forward to working with him on all of these important issues,603and what are the very best for Wyoming and for the Nation.604    Once again, thank the committee for the opportunity to be605here today.606    [The prepared statement of Senator Barrasso follows:]607608    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]609610    Senator Capito. Thank you for being here. Do not be a611stranger. Thank you.612    Senator Lummis, I know you wanted to say some words.613614           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CYNTHIA LUMMIS,615             U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WYOMING616617    Senator Lummis. Thank you so much, Madam Chairman. I want618to pile on when it comes to Brian Nesvik.619    In Wyoming, we have a highly respected author, C.J. Box,620who has created a series of books, national bestseller, always621on the New York Times bestseller list, where the protagonist is622a guy named Joe Pickett. Joe Pickett is a game warden in the623series. It is as if he styled, Chuck Box styled his Joe Pickett624series after Brian Nesvik. Brian is Wyoming's real life Joe625Pickett.626    Here is what I love about Brian and this job. He was first627a game warden, then regional wildlife supervisor, then chief628game warden, then wildlife division chief and finally, director629of the Wyoming Game and Fish Department. As John says, Wyoming630Game and Fish Department was the first of its kind in America.631This is a State that loves and respects and nurtures its632wildlife and Brian Nesvik has been a true leader in that633regard.634    Of course, as John mentioned, if that was not enough, he635also served the Wyoming Army National Guard for 35 years,636retiring as Brigadier General. Now, being a rancher myself and637knowing that is where I want to retire, the fact that you would638retire from the Wyoming Game and Fish and allow us to recruit639you to come back and do the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service job640is a testament to, Brian, to your willingness as a public641servant to serve this Nation.642    You know it from the ground up. You were a boots on the643ground game warden. That is the kind of person I want in the644U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, someone who has held every645aspect of the game and wildlife management close to his vest.646    He has also worked closely with Federal, State and local647partners. I know he was the head of the Organization of Western648Wildlife Managers. He was on the board of the National649Organization of State Wildlife Managers. He has worked with650every State and particularly with the western States, where are651issues are somewhat similar with regard to wildlife. He knows652the players. He knows who to call. He knows the people who are653trying to manage wildlife and do it well. He is the right guy654for this job at the right time.655    Wyoming has led the way in species protection. Especially656with sage grouse, we have the most sage grouse of any State in657the Country, and our efforts to be forward looking about sage658grouse management have allowed us to continue to keep that659species at the forefront in Wyoming, in spite of the fact that660it has created real challenges for Wyoming's development.661    Brian has been involved in those efforts as well. I know he662will bring this approach to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.663He will work on cooperative federalism, that is the way these664agencies were designed. Wildlife and fish are primarily managed665by our States. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service plays a666collaborative, supporting role, not the primary role. Brian667Nesvik understands the difference. He is the right guy at the668right time.669    I want to thank you, Brian, for accepting this call to670service. I look forward to working with you in your new role,671to make sure that our Country appropriately nurtures this great672resources, this wonderful blessing we have. I say it as an673angler more than as a hunter. Like you, Governor, I have been674to Hawk's Rest, the most remote place in the lower 48. When I675got there, after riding 26 miles on a horse, I looked at the676ground and thought, I am never going to be able to get off this677horse, because my knees are going to buckle and I am going to678fall flat on my rear end.679    It is the amazing blessing of being raised in the west,680that we have places like that that are so remote that you just681feel grateful that you had a chance in your life to be there682and see these things. That is the kind of person I want in this683job. Brian is the right person, and I strongly, highly endorse684his nomination.685    Thank you, Madam Chairman. I yield back.686    Senator Capito. Thank you.687    I will excuse the Senator and the Governor and ask the688witnesses to move forward. I will introduce the other two.689    I do not think I can say anything more about Brian.690    [Laughter.]691    Senator Capito. I am just saying.692    Our next nominee is Jess Kramer. She is a former staffer of693mine, as I mentioned earlier, and I could not be happier to694introduce her this morning. She brings a wealth of experience695working on water policy. She has worked for the Wisconsin and696Florida State governments previously, and previously served at697the EPA, worked on Capitol Hill, and advocated for private698entities.699    In these positions, she combined her diligence and charisma700to support policies to improve our Nation's water quality and701the development of water infrastructure. Welcome, Jess.702    Our final nominee this morning is Sean Donahue. Mr. Donahue703currently serves as the Special Advisor to Administrator Zeldin704at the EPA. Prior to that position, Mr. Donahue worked as a705counsel for a solar energy company, and as an associate at a706Buffalo, New York law firm, where he practiced environmental707law.708    Mr. Donahue has also served three years at the EPA during709the Trump Administration. He is a graduate of the University of710Central Florida and Florida State University College of Law.711Welcome.712    Before we go to opening statements from our nominees, I713will ask you all to rise and I am going to swear you in. If you714would raise your right hand. Answer the following questions.715    Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give to716this committee is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but717the truth, so help you, God? I will just go down the line.718Brian?719    Mr. Nesvik. I do, Madam Chairman.720    Ms. Kramer. I do.721    Mr. Donahue. I do.722    Senator Capito. Let the record show that the witnesses have723answered in the affirmative. We will now proceed to their724opening statements. Thank you. Be seated.725    General Nesvik, we will start with you.726727STATEMENT OF BRIAN NESVIK, NOMINEE TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE UNITED728                STATES FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE729730    Mr. Nesvik. Thank you. Good morning, Madam Chairman,731Ranking Member Whitehouse, and members of the committee. I am732honored to be here today to discuss my nomination by President733Trump to serve as the 19th Director of the United States Fish734and Wildlife Service.735    Senator Barrasso, Governor Gordon, Senator Lummis, I really736appreciate your support, your gracious comments here today. I737thank all of you who are just incredible public servants for738our home State of Wyoming, but also for our Country. Thank you739for that, and your willingness to serve as well.740    I am joined here today in person by my wife Penny, my son741Rudy and my daughter Aspen, and virtually by my daughter742Brittany. I am also joined here in person and virtually by many743friends and family and supporters from across the Country.744    I spent the last 38 plus years serving my State and Country745in a variety of roles. I grew up in Wyoming and was blessed by746my parents who provided me outdoor experiences at a very young747age. I developed an early interest and love for wildlife and748the wild places that they lived, and it would shape my life's749work. I worked as game warden and a wildlife manager in the750field, interacting directly with wildlife and the people who751entrusted me to manage their natural resources and trust.752    I know how to put tire chains on a four-wheel drive pickup753in a snowstorm, how to classify deer from a helicopter, and how754to patrol some of America's most remote and wild country from a755horse. I know how to lead. I served in the military and began756my career as an enlisted man, starting as a private, training757to defend out great Nation with my boots muddy and my face758dirty.759    Serving in uniform is a strong part of our family culture760and history. My father served, my brother served and two of my761grandfathers fought in World War II.762    In my dual careers both as a wildlife manager and a763soldier, I earned the privilege to lead and embraced the764responsibility that came with that honor. Ultimately, I served765as my State's chief game warden and then its Game and Fish766Director. In my military career, I had the incredible767opportunity to lead our Nation's best and brightest in a768variety of roles, including on two combat deployments.769    My military career culminated with my promotion to770Brigadier General and the opportunity to command Army National771Guard for almost four years.772    These experiences and opportunities, starting in the field773and working my way up, have prepared me well to work complex,774convoluted problems and to take decisive action in uncertain775environments. I am proud of my work on big game migration776corridors, protecting my State from the scourge of invasive777species, and working with the public and talented wildlife778managers to recover species listed under the Emotional Support779Animal, ESA.780    I am grateful for the people who worked with me toward781these ends. I cherish the opportunity to build a strong track782record working with ranchers, farmers, sportsmen and women,783tribes, and all people who care about natural resources. These784people, citizens of our great Nation, are the ground level of785our government and the foundation of the mission of the Service786and my personal leadership mission.787    Respecting values, building effective teams, communicating788candidly and transparently, leading by example, and treating789all people with dignity and respect are the core tenets of my790leadership commitment. If confirmed, I will bring these791attributes and my continuing dedication to a wider array of792Americans and international partners.793    Foremost, I will serve the American people and their794natural resources, specifically wildlife, fish and plants. I795will serve with honor and integrity. Every day I will lead the796employees of the Fish and Wildlife Service. I know firsthand797the dedication of these incredible people to their profession798and their Country.799    If confirmed, I will execute my charge decisively, and work800every day to provide the men and women of the Service with the801leadership that they deserve and the American people expect. I802look forward to working with the team to deliver and achieve803together and in the best interest of America.804    When this committee, its members, other Senators, other805members of the House, need my attention to requests or806initiative and informing you, I will be available and prompt.807President Trump's America First agenda includes building a808government that better serves the citizens of our Country, and809there are immediate and transformational opportunities to810demonstrate that. Improving the Service's interactions with the811public, simplifying regulations, accelerating permitting with812technology, and relying more on education, voluntary compliance813and verification.814    I share Secretary Burgum's vision that innovation815outperforms regulation. Creative, innovative, purposeful action816is a proven hallmark of American success.817    President Teddy Roosevelt personified such action as818America's earliest and most influential conservationist. His819leadership and achievements have long influenced my career in820wildlife conservation. His oft-quoted arena metaphor combines821thoughtfulness, pragmatism, and courage.822    If confirmed to enter this arena, I will dare greatly. I am823honored by President Trump's nomination and Secretary Burgum's824support, and thankful to all of those who have supported my825potential appointment.826    Thank you again, Chairman Capito, Ranking Member827Whitehouse, members of the committee. I look forward to828answering your questions here today and then any that you may829submit for the record.830    [The prepared statement of Mr. Nesvik follows:]831832    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]833834    Senator Capito. Thank you.835    Ms. Kramer?836837    STATEMENT OF JESSICA KRAMER, NOMINEE TO BE AN ASSISTANT838      ADMINISTRATOR OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY839840    Ms. Kramer. Good morning, Chairman Capito, Ranking Member841Whitehouse, and distinguished members of this committee. My842name is Jessica Kramer and I am honored to have the opportunity843to appear before you today.844    It is my privilege to come before this committee as845President Trump's nominee for the Assistant Administrator for846the Office of Water at the Environmental Protection Agency. I847want to thank President Trump for the confidence instilled in848me through this nomination and Administrator Zeldin for his849support in this nomination as well.850    If confirmed, it will be the highest honor of my career to851work every day with the dedicated career staff in the Office of852Water to protect human health and the environment, and to853support Administrator Zeldin as he does the same.854    I want to thank my family, my husband Tony Frye, who is855here with me today, my parents Deb and Dennis Kramer, my sister856and brother-in-law Christy and Ben Cupps, my 2-year-old857daughter Daphne, and the little boy my husband and I will858welcome this summer, for providing unwavering support through859this process, every step of the way.860    Anyone who has ever had a toddler will understand that my861husband and I made a strategic decision to not have our862daughter come support me in person today. However she has heard863this statement multiple times at this point and I can864confidently say she is in full support.865    EPA's mission has a deep-rooted place in my heart. I was866raised on 80 acres of land in central Wisconsin, where my867family grew and sold Christmas trees. My parents worked to868balance the agricultural use of that property while supporting869the robust wildlife that roamed the land as well as with870ensuring we had safe drinking water from the private well our871home utilized.872    Growing up, I learned the importance of stewardship and873that is what drove me to become a natural resource major in my874undergraduate studies, and ultimately to focus on environmental875law in earning my legal degree.876    Coming out of law school, I was privileged to join the877first of three State agencies I would have the pleasure of878serving through my career so far, the Wisconsin Department of879Natural Resources. I started my career as an environmental880enforcement specialist and the case that sticks with me the881most was working with a community that had a lead action level882exceedance that tripped the regulatory requirement, at that883time, to begin replacing 7 percent of their lead service lines884every year.885    I worked closely with that community to ensure they were886providing safe drinking water while also utilizing a pathway887for compliance that ensured that the system was not regulated888out of business.889    Four years ago, during my time in EPA's Office of Water890under the first Trump Administration, my career felt like it891had come full circle. I was in a home in Newark, New Jersey,892taking water samples as we worked through the challenge that893was unfolding related to elevated levels of lead in drinking894water. Through our cooperative work with both the State and the895community, we were able to avoid a crisis situation and utilize896the ultimate cooperative federalism framework to ensure the897public health of the community was protected.898    In addition to those positions, I have served as an899environmental prosecutor and defense attorney for the Wisconsin900Department of Justice, a government affairs specialist for901drinking water and wastewater associations advocating for a902polluter-pays model as it relates to PFAS contamination, and903the Deputy Secretary for Regulatory Programs at the Florida904Department of Environmental Protection.905    In saving the best for last, I also supported this very906committee as Water Counsel for then Ranking Member Capito,907where I lead negotiations for the minority on the Drinking908Water and Wastewater Infrastructure Act of 2021, which passed909off of the Senate floor 93 to 7.910    Each of these positions has further refined my true passion911for securing access to clean and safe water services for912everyone in this Country. Each of these positions has also913instilled in me the vital role of cooperative federalism as it914plays in this Country's construct of environmental protection.915    Through these roles, I have also seen firsthand the916importance of a thoughtful, legally and scientifically sound917regulatory framework. A regulated community has no hope for918compliance if it does not have a definitive and clear framework919to work from.920    Additionally, each of these positions has shaped my921perspective on the importance of common sense in regulation.922For example, regulating water systems across this Country out923of business through siloed rulemakings without providing an924achievable path for compliance is simply not good government,925nor is it good public health policy.926    If I am confirmed, I will work every day to weave each of927these principles into sound, durable, and understandable policy928and regulation as I work to support Administrator Zeldin.929    Thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you930today. I look forward to hearing your priorities and answering931any questions you may have.932    [The prepared statement of Ms. Kramer follows:]933934    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]935936    Senator Capito. Thank you, Jess.937    Mr. Donahue?938939     STATEMENT OF SEAN DONAHUE, NOMINEE TO BE AN ASSISTANT940      ADMINISTRATOR OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY941942    Mr. Donahue. Chairman Capito, Ranking Member Whitehouse,943and esteemed Senators, it is an honor and privilege to be here944today and testify before you as you take part in the important945advice and consent responsibility of this esteemed body and946consider me for the General Counsel post at the U.S.947Environmental Protection Agency.948    I greatly appreciated the opportunity to meet with many of949you and your staff to hear about the issues impacting your950constituents, your views on the EPA and how the new951administration can find ways to improve EPA's regulations and952processes, ensure a predictable and durable regulatory regime953for the American public, and realign the agency to put it in954the best footing to fulfill its core mission of protecting955human health and the environment to ensure the brightest956possible future for generations to come.957    I would also like to take the opportunity to express my958gratitude to a few others. First, I would like to thank959President Donald Trump for nominating me for this position. I960would also like to thank Administrator Lee Zeldin for his961tireless efforts, his supportive and steady hand, and for962entrusting me with this important role.963    I would like to thank the dedicated and hardworking career964staff at EPA for their tireless work to advance the agency's965mission. In particular, I would like to thank the impressively966talented career staff attorneys in the Office of General967Counsel, I believe they are watching, I hope they are, who I968hope to rejoin, if confirmed. I genuinely believe they are the969best and brightest the world of environmental law has to offer.970    I must also take the time to thank my partner, family,971friends, and colleagues, many of whom are here today.972    On a personal note, I grew up on the Space Coast of Central973Florida, where I had the privilege of watching what seemed at974the time to be a very regular and routine thing, at least for975me, space shuttle and rocket launches from the nearby Kennedy976Space Center. Things changed when the space shuttle program977ended in the early 2010's, and I witnessed by hometown ravaged978by the loss of jobs and a crippled economy which was already979severely hurt by the lingering effects of the global financial980crisis.981    Things got worse for me personally, aside from the lack of982launches. My father lost his well-paying job, and our family983situation and outlook for the future changed dramatically and984rapidly.985    You may remember that as a result of the cancellation of986the space shuttle program, NASA was forced to rely on Russian987spacecraft to get our astronauts and scientists to the988International Space Station. As you might suspect, the decision989to cancel the program affected many families and their990livelihoods, in both tangible and direct ways in the form of991economic hardship, and indirectly by posing severe and serious992national security threats and limiting our Country's scientific993capabilities.994    If you recall, one of the reported motivations for this995tragic policy change was concerns about climate change. I share996this story with you today to illustrate how short-sighted,997ideologically driven policy decisions here in Washington, DC.998impact not only Americans' livelihoods but also the security of999our great Nation.1000    I will go ahead and answer what I believe will be a1001question posed by some on the committee today. Yes, according1002to many scientists, the climate is indeed changing. Yes,1003according to many scientists, human or anthropogenic causes are1004contributing to the experienced greenhouse gas effect.1005    We should not forget that everything done here in D.C. has1006real-world consequences that impact real people, their jobs,1007their futures, the price at the pump or the charging station,1008the cost of groceries, and our national security.1009    Turning next to my qualifications, I have worked in both1010State and Federal Government and in the regulated community.1011While my background and interests were initially in financial1012services, I made the jump over to the environmental world and1013never looked back.1014    I started this journey at EPA back during the first Trump1015Administration, where I was in the Office of the Administrator1016and the Office of Land and Emergency Management. I quickly grew1017to love the agency, adore its capable staff, and appreciate the1018complex and dynamic area of environmental law, which as you all1019know, I am sure, is a continuously exhilarating, engaging, and1020intellectually stimulating area to practice in.1021    Following my service at EPA, I was an associate at a1022prominent regional firm, worked at a solar company, and1023recently landed back at EPA, where I have served first as the1024Principal Deputy General Counsel and more recently as a Senior1025Advisor to the Administrator.1026    I sit before you today as the President's nominee for1027General Counsel at the EPA. I am running out of time, so I look1028forward to answering your questions both here and in the form1029of QFRs. Thank you for your time today.1030    [The prepared statement of Mr. Donahue follows:]10311032    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]10331034    Senator Capito. Thank you. Thank you all three very much,.1035    Before we start individual questioning, I am going to ask1036you three questions. I will just, usually we do this at the1037end, but I forget, so they put it in the beginning for me.1038    Do you agree, if confirmed, to appear before this committee1039or designated members of this committee and other appropriate1040committees in this Congress to provide information, subject to1041appropriate and necessary security protections with respect to1042your responsibilities?1043    Mr. Nesvik. Yes, Madam Chairman, I do.1044    Ms. Kramer. Yes.1045    Mr. Donahue. I do.1046    Senator Capito. Thank you.1047    Do you agree to ensure that testimony, briefings,1048documents, and electronic and other forms of communications of1049information are provided to the committee and its staff and1050other appropriate committees in a timely manner?1051    Mr. Nesvik. Yes, I do.1052    Ms. Kramer. Yes.1053    Mr. Donahue. Yes.1054    Senator Capito. Good. Finally, do you know of any matters1055which may or may not have been disclosed that may place you in1056conflict of interest if you are confirmed?1057    Mr. Nesvik. No, ma'am.1058    Ms. Kramer. No.1059    Mr. Donahue. No.1060    Senator Capito. All right. We will start the first round of1061questions.1062    My first question is for Brian Nesvik. You obviously, we1063have heard, have served at every level almost within your1064State. We know that the Fish and Wildlife, the Service has1065regional and field offices. I am sure you have interacted.1066    They do not always have the same depth of knowledge as,1067say, a State wildlife agency may have on an issue. I have heard1068from my West Virginia government officials of instances when1069they have tried to advise the agency on these local issues and1070it has sort of fallen on deaf ears.1071    Your interactions in the past, will you please share your1072experience as Director of Wyoming Game and Fish with your1073department's efforts to coordinate with those State, regional,1074field offices, and how that experience will inform your1075efforts, to strengthen the relationship between the Service and1076those State agencies?1077    Mr. Nesvik. Thank you, Madam Chair. Certainly, I have had1078many years of opportunity to interact with and work directly1079with different employees of the United States Fish and Wildlife1080Service, all the way from field employees up to previous1081directors.1082    One of the things that, certainly at times there is this1083natural tension and friction between State and Federal1084agencies. I think one of the things that has been very helpful1085for me and would be helpful for me in this position if I am1086confirmed, is understanding both my frustrations with some of1087those decisions and interactions, but also understanding what1088challenges those folks face as well.1089    Certainly, Fish and Wildlife Service is guided and directed1090by congressional action and laws as are State agencies. A lot1091of times, those interests are conflicting. I recognize that,1092and look forward to being able to bring my experiences and1093maybe a little bit different perspective to the United States1094Fish and Wildlife, if I am fortunate enough to be confirmed.1095    Senator Capito. Thank you.1096    We talked about this in our office, and I thanked all three1097of you for your visits. Enforcement and Compliance Assurance,1098ECA, Section 7 consultations are an important step in the1099Federal permitting process, ensuring that threatened and1100endangered species as well as critical habitats are not1101jeopardized.1102    While there are deadlines the Service must meet for these1103consultations, they are often missed, the deadlines are missed,1104leading to costly delays.1105    Will you commit to expediting Section 7 consultations while1106ensuring wildlife and their habitats are protected?1107    Mr. Nesvik. Madam Chairman, I am very interested, as I1108stated in my opening statement, in giving this issue a hard1109look. I have heard about this from a lot of folks, including1110you, and I appreciate our time in your office the other day.1111    Certainly, I think it is an issue that, I know it is an1112issue I am very interested in digging into and trying to find1113out where we can find some efficiencies. I am a strong1114believer, as I said, in using technology. Oftentimes processes1115get bogged down and there is a lot, every day there is new1116technology available to help with those things. I am interested1117in looking at that.1118    My commitment to you is that I will take the deep dive into1119this issue.1120    Senator Capito. Great. That will be appreciated. Thank you.1121    I just have to call you Jess, I can not go to the Ms.1122Kramer much more. It is too hard for me.1123    [Laughter.]1124    Senator Capito. I was going to ask you about what is the1125motivation for you to move in this direction. I am going to1126skip that question, because I want to get a little bit more1127specific with you.1128    In West Virginia, we saw firsthand how innovative State-led1129approaches can deliver real environmental results. I am talking1130about the Muddy Creek restoration project. It successfully1131restored 19 miles of waterways that was impacted by acid mine1132drainage, using a cost-effective watershed based strategy. This1133model was faster, more efficient, less expensive.1134    Initially, it was launched under the Trump Administration.1135Later it was touted by the Biden Administration for its1136success. It was ultimately abandoned in favor of a slower, more1137bureaucratic process that threatens the progress of being able1138to clean up Muddy Creek.1139    If confirmed, how will you get the EPA's Water Office back1140to proven, results-driven approaches like this Muddy Creek1141model I am speaking about?1142    Ms. Kramer. Absolutely. Thank you, Chairman.1143    If I have the honor of being confirmed, one of the things1144that we will focus on in the Office of Water is looking at1145every one of the regulatory matrices that we implement as the1146EPA, and looking for opportunities for both innovation as well1147as expediting, ensuring that we are still fulfilling our1148statutory and regulatory obligations.1149    The project you mentioned is an exact opportunity for us to1150try to replicate, to look for those additional opportunities,1151and to offer, not only for other locations in West Virginia,1152but also across the Country. I would hope to be able to have1153the opportunity to replicate that model and continue to look1154for other opportunities to expedite projects in a similar1155manner across this Country.1156    Senator Capito. Thank you.1157    Senator Whitehouse?1158    Senator Whitehouse. Thanks very much.1159    Mr. Donahue, what is the maximum number of lawyers that you1160have supervised in your experience as an associate in a law1161firm?1162    Mr. Donahue. Thank you for your question, Senator. It1163varies, but it was typically anywhere from six, usually eight1164to ten, with summer associates as well.1165    Senator Whitehouse. All lawyers?1166    Mr. Donahue. Not all lawyers, including summer associates.1167    Senator Whitehouse. Okay. What was the maximum number of1168lawyers you supervised in your job at the solar company?1169    Mr. Donahue. None, Senator, none at the solar company.1170    Senator Whitehouse. In your work as an associate in the1171Buffalo law firm, did you hold yourself out as an environmental1172attorney?1173    Mr. Donahue. As an environmental lawyer, I did.1174    Senator Whitehouse. You spent 1 year and 6 months1175practicing law for that firm in Buffalo, correct?1176    Mr. Donahue. I was located in that firm in Buffalo, yes,1177Senator.1178    Senator Whitehouse. You were terminated by that firm after11791 year and 6 months?1180    Mr. Donahue. That is correct, Senator. If I may just add1181some color to that--1182    Senator Whitehouse. Well, I have a pretty short time, so we1183can followup with QFRs, because I promise you there will be1184QFRs on this.1185    Have you practiced law anywhere else, other than that, as1186an associate in the firm that terminated you and in the solar1187company where you supervised no lawyers?1188    Mr. Donahue. Senator, I have not.1189    Senator Whitehouse. Apart from your associate experience in1190Buffalo, and the solar company, have you practiced law in any1191other place?1192    Mr. Donahue. I have not, Senator. I was at the agency1193before in the first Trump Administration.1194    Senator Whitehouse. Not in a legal position?1195    Mr. Donahue. That is correct, Senator.1196    Senator Whitehouse. Have you ever taken a deposition?1197    Mr. Donahue. I have not, Senator. This is probably the1198closest I have ever come to that.1199    Senator Whitehouse. Have you ever tried a case to verdict?1200    Mr. Donahue. No, Senator. In the firm and at the solar1201company, we relied on, in the solar company we relied on1202outside counsel.1203    Senator Whitehouse. You were providing inside advice at the1204solar company rather than active litigation work?1205    Mr. Donahue. It was an in-house counsel, yes.1206    Senator Whitehouse. Have you ever argued a motion?1207    Mr. Donahue. I have not, Senator. As you--1208    Senator Whitehouse. Do you know what a motion in limine is?1209    Mr. Donahue. I do vaguely, yes.1210    Senator Whitehouse. Well, you should have been better1211prepped, because John Kennedy asks this question.1212    Mr. Donahue. Yes.1213    Senator Whitehouse. Have you ever authored and signed a1214legal pleading?1215    Mr. Donahue. I have not, Senator.1216    Senator Whitehouse. There was a gap of several years1217between your graduation from law school and when you entered1218the bar in Washington, DC. During that period, did you take the1219bar and fail to pass?1220    Mr. Donahue. I did, one time, Senator, yes. There was a--1221    Senator Whitehouse. In what jurisdiction? Mr. Donahue.1222Sorry?1223    Senator Whitehouse. In what jurisdiction did you take the1224bar and fail to pass?1225    Mr. Donahue. In Washington, DC, Senator, but there was a1226gap before I actually took the bar. I was not sure if I1227actually wanted to go and practice law, frankly.1228    Senator Whitehouse. Under what circumstances would you1229counsel the EPA Administrator to violate a court order?1230    Mr. Donahue. Senator, thank you for that. I would never1231counsel the EPA Administrator to violate a court order.1232    Senator Whitehouse. Under oath, can you assure us now that1233EPA is presently in compliance with the Federal court decisions1234by Judge Alikahn and Judge McConnell, right now?1235    Mr. Donahue. Senator, I believe that the agency is.1236    Senator Whitehouse. When a public official makes public1237accusations of criminal activity with no credible evidence to1238support the accusations, what legal liabilities and concerns1239does that raise?1240    Mr. Donahue. Senator, as you mentioned in opening,1241potentially defamation, that sort of thing. I am not a criminal1242investigator, I am not at the Department of Justice. I do not1243handle the various aspects of that criminal probe, so I am not1244privy to that information.1245    Senator Whitehouse. There is an internal memorandum out of1246the agency's counsel office that relates that a significant1247number of grants were terminated based on a significant error,1248agency's words, in the terms and conditions for those grants.1249As the Washington Post reported today, an agency lawyer warned1250officials that they had cited contractual language that did not1251apply to many of the grants the EPA had ended in recent weeks.1252Grants had been terminated on grounds that they no longer fit1253the agency's priorities, referring to a clause in their grant's1254general terms and conditions that applied only to grants issued1255between August 13, 2020 and September 30, 2024. Almost half of1256the terminated grants were finalized outside of that relevant1257period.1258    Have the grants impacted by this significant legal error1259been restored to the recipients?1260    Mr. Donahue. Senator, I have seen the reporting on that. We1261received your letter, in fact, two letters yesterday on this. I1262was not on that email, I think it was an email, not a1263memorandum. I think we are working to track an answer down for1264you on that.1265    Senator Whitehouse. My time is expired.1266    Senator Capito. Senator Cramer?1267    Senator Cramer. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Thank you to all1268of you for your service and your willingness to serve again.1269    I am going to go fairly quickly here. Almost nothing I am1270going to ask you was in my notes. Except I am going to start1271with one.1272    Ms. Kramer, aka Jess, looking forward to calling you1273Assistant Administrator. Would you walk me through the1274guidance, the new guidance regarding Waters of the United1275States you offered, that the agency has provided, in the1276context of Sackett, and why it complies with Sackett and why1277the previous rule did not, speaking of ignoring courts1278decisions?1279    Just kind of walk us through that. The prescriptive nature1280of the Sackett decision, perhaps, for us.1281    Ms. Kramer. Absolutely, thank you, Senator. I really1282appreciated the opportunity to get to talk to you in a little1283bit more detail about Waters of the United States, WOTUS, when1284we met.1285    The guidance document that was put out by the agency I1286think is, hopefully, is pretty clear to folks. It is a1287straightforward guidance document that essentially says that in1288implementation, EPA and the Army Corps of Engineers, they are1289going to follow the law. That gets exactly to your second1290question about what does Sackett say, what does it mean for1291implementation by both agencies to follow the law.1292    To your point, Sackett was prescriptive. It was1293prescriptive in a number of ways specifically focused around1294wetlands, which is what the guidance document focused on.1295Sackett held that the Rapanos plurality was correct, which1296means that the significant nexus test that had been previously1297applied and implemented by both agencies no longer stands.1298    It specifically focuses on the fact that only those1299wetlands that are adjacent to or abutting relatively permanent1300waters are jurisdictional moving forward.1301    I do have to say, while Sackett was very prescriptive in1302certain aspects, there are some terms and phrases of ambiguity1303that are remaining from the courts. I am thinking about things1304like the phrase continuous service connection, relatively1305permanent waters, what does it need to be connected to, a1306relatively permanent water. Then the age-old question of, is1307this ditch in or out?1308    Paired with that guidance document, the agency released a1309Federal Register notice, kicking open a docket, kicking open a1310docket, that sounds very aggressive, opening a docket to take1311public comments related to some of those ambiguous terms and1312phrases. Any potential rulemaking that would be taken by the1313agency would hope to shore up those remaining areas of1314ambiguity. A landowner can confidently stand on their property1315and know whether or not they have a WOTUS or they do not have a1316WOTUS.1317    Senator Cramer. Thank you for that. That was very helpful.1318    Would you mind coming to North Dakota real early? I know1319you have been there, but real early in the WOTUS sort of1320process? We have a lot of landowners that are very familiar1321with the problems of the ping-ponging, and frankly, the flaws1322in the previous rule. Would you commit to coming to North1323Dakota? It is not that far from Wisconsin.1324    Ms. Kramer. That is very true, I will just take a Northwest1325flight. Absolutely, Senator, it would be my pleasure.1326    Senator Cramer. Okay, thank you.1327    General Nesvik, first of all, I do not even know why you1328gave an opening statement, because after the three tributes to1329you, you could only do worse.1330    [Laughter.]1331    Senator Cramer. Honestly, it can not all be true. Listening1332to Wyoming politicians talk about their States is like reading1333a book that I want to be part of. Having said that, I feel a1334little bit of Penny's pain.1335    You referenced, or maybe it was even Senator Lummis that1336referenced something that Ms. Kramer also referenced in the1337context of these jobs, and that is a reference to cooperative1338federalism. I would be interested, and really, all three of1339you, if we have the time, to just give me a little primer on1340what you mean by cooperative federalism. You, having been a1341State leader, certainly would have a good definition, I am1342sure.1343    Mr. Nesvik. Absolutely. Thank you, Senator, and I sure1344appreciate our time in your office yesterday. I can not look at1345you and not think of something that I learned, though, from our1346new Secretary of Interior, and that is that both North Dakota1347and South Dakota have badlands, but North Dakota's are badder1348badlands.1349    [Laughter.]1350    Mr. Nesvik. I appreciate that question and certainly, what1351cooperative federalism means to me is that there are certainly1352roles that are very clearly defined for both the Federal1353Government and the State government. Broadly speaking,1354wildlife, most wildlife species are the responsibility of the1355individual States to manage, with the exception of those who1356have been listed under the Endangered Species Act.1357    Then there are a few other acts, Migratory Bird Treaty Act,1358Horse and Burro Act, there are some other species that1359certainly have a Federal role. At the end of the day, there is1360an opportunity on all those, both State managed species and1361Federal managed species, for the two entities to work together1362with their common stakeholders to find solutions. It is a more1363efficient way to run government, it is better when the States1364and the Federal Government are working together on these1365things. As long as they stay within their own lane on those1366things that are sovereign to their particular entity, whatever1367that may be, whether it is the Federal Government or the State.1368    Ms. Kramer. Absolutely, thank you, Senator. I would like to1369use an example in talking about what cooperative federalism1370means to me. In the Office of Water context, there are many1371statutes underneath both the Safe Drinking Water Act and the1372Clean Water Act.1373    We have talked about Waters of the United States, but I am1374going to focus on the Underground Injection Control Well1375Program in the Safe Drinking Water Act. This is an example of a1376program that can be delegated from the Federal implementation1377and oversight, from the Federal implementation, excuse me, to1378the State for them to actually implement the program.1379    The great thing about that is that the States know their1380resources best. Part of this is the remaining oversight role1381that EPA has to ensure that the States are continuing to1382implement these programs consistent with the requirements of1383the Federal law. It also allows the States the ability to be1384more stringent in the restrictions that they put in place,1385which again, States know their resources best. To the extent1386that there is a need for a little bit of additional protection1387from their perspective, that is the ability to do it.1388    It is that, it is that joint working together, recognizing1389expertise of the States while also maintaining the oversight1390role that is required under the Federal law.1391    Senator Capito. All right. Senator Blunt Rochester?1392    Senator Blunt Rochester. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and1393Ranking Member Whitehouse. I also want to welcome the nominees1394and your families.1395    I would like to start off by thanking Ms. Kramer for your1396work on Chairwoman Capito's staff in crafting the Bipartisan1397Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, otherwise known as the1398Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. I was proud to be a part of that1399as well, on the Energy and Commerce Committee in the House.1400    The issue of clean drinking water is just paramount. It was1401before the pandemic; I think it became even more so after the1402pandemic.1403    Then the issue of water affordability was also very1404important to us. I want to thank you for that.1405    These programs, as you know, are vital, particularly for1406rural communities like in Delaware, also disadvantaged1407communities. I am concerned about some of the executive orders1408that the President has put forward, how they may jeopardize1409some of these programs. As a matter of fact, we have been1410learning of pauses to the funding.1411    I would love it if you could just spend a minute talking1412about, first of all, are you aware of some of these freezes or1413blocking of the funding for these water quality programs, and1414if so, how would you in your role really live up to the work1415that you helped to create?1416    Ms. Kramer. Absolutely, thank you for the question,1417Senator. First and foremost, I think to address more of the1418back end of your question, there was a pause to review the1419funding that was rolling out the door initially at the1420beginning of the administration. I was at the administration1421during the time of that pause, during the time of that review.1422    When I joined as a senior advisor to the Administrator's1423Office, all of the funding through, especially I think about1424the SRFs, State Revolving Funds, I think about Water1425Infrastructure Finance and Innovation Act, WIFIA, all of that1426was back and being implemented.1427    I did learn yesterday of one State that had not been1428receiving money for lead replacement service lines. That was a1429surprise for me to learn about. The Office of Water promptly1430acted on that, our Principal Deputy Assistant Administrator1431promptly acted on that to clearly communicate the expectation1432that that money should be going out to the States, and there1433should not have been a reason that it was withheld.1434    Anything like that, if I am in this role, anything like1435that that were to come across my desk would receive prompt1436attention and action.1437    As you talked about this funding, especially as it relates1438to the State Revolving Fund and the WIFIA program, I think1439sometimes there is a little bit of confusion about those as1440grant programs. They are not grant programs; they are loan1441programs.1442    One of the great things, and I think why they have been so1443fundamental for so many years in this space is that it gives1444the opportunities for communities to access those funds and1445then repay them in a way that does not put them out of1446business.1447    I do think if I was confirmed, one of the areas that I1448would specifically focus on is our provision of technical1449assistance to those small and rural communities, some from1450central Wisconsin, we are riddled with them. Ensuring that they1451have the resources they need to access those funds, that would1452be a huge priority of mine.1453    Senator Blunt Rochester. We will followup with you on some1454questions for the record on everything from water affordability1455and making sure we have a pilot program that was going to1456really look at the data. We are concerned about wastewater1457infrastructure as well.1458    We would love to followup with you on those.1459    Mr. Donahue, I have a few questions for you as well. Do you1460know someone named Trent Morris?1461    Mr. Donahue. I do, Senator, yes.1462    Senator Blunt Rochester. What is your relationship?1463    Mr. Donahue. Trent Morris is my partner. He is here today.1464    Senator Blunt Rochester. Okay. Also, I know that property1465records show that you lived in the same location in D.C. and in1466Buffalo. I know he also is a part of the administration, the1467Trump Administration. What is his role?1468    Mr. Donahue. Senator, I believe his title is Deputy1469Assistant to the President and Deputy Director of Presidential1470Personnel.1471    Senator Blunt Rochester. Working in personnel, that office1472is responsible for aiding, as you mentioned, the President in1473recruiting and vetting and nominating political appointees. Is1474this position that you are up for one of those positions that1475might be within that purview?1476    Mr. Donahue. I believe every position that is a political1477appointment is indeed in that purview.1478    Senator Blunt Rochester. Okay. I just wanted to put that on1479the record. As a person who worked in State personnel, it is1480very challenging with having conflicts. I just wanted to put1481that on the record.1482    Then last, for Mr. Nesvik, I have heard, I was pleased to1483hear of your leadership in the Recovering America's Wildlife1484Act. I am hopeful that you will work with this committee to1485make sure that we can pass this bipartisan legislation. We1486would love to have a commitment from you on that.1487    Mr. Nesvik. Thank you, Senator. I look forward to working1488with you and with all of the members of the committee or any1489other Members of Congress on any potential legislation.1490    Senator Blunt Rochester. Thank you, and I yield back.1491    Senator Capito. Thank you.1492    I am going to call on Senator Boozman, then I am going to1493go make my vote and come back. Senator Boozman, you are up1494next.1495    Senator Boozman. Thank you, Madam Chair.1496    Mr. Nesvik, the 2025 State of the Birds report highlighted1497long-term trends in bird populations. While many species are1498struggling, ducks have remained stable, partly due to duck1499hunters' commitment to wetland and waterfowl conservation.1500    Arkansas, as home to some of the most important duck1501habitat in the Country, has benefited directly from that and1502the annual Fish and Wildlife Service surveys used to manage1503seasons in Arkansas and across the Mississippi flyway. However,1504those surveys are at risk due to declining support in funding.1505    As Director, how will you ensure the Migratory Bird Program1506maintains the resources needed to support Arkansas and other1507States to safeguard the wetlands they have invested so much to1508preserve?1509    Mr. Nesvik. Thank you for that question, Senator.1510Certainly, there is requirements, there is legal requirements1511under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, and under the way that the1512Service manages flyways for the Service to, it is responsible,1513has a major leading role in managing migratory waterfowl. Just1514for the record, I am a big supporter of ducks. You can look at1515the lining of my jacket and it has mallard ducks in it.1516    I think there is a lot of opportunity right now to evaluate1517the priorities for the Service and where resources are1518allocated, especially in resource constrained environments. I1519think those are some of the things, the things that you1520identified are part of the core mission.1521    It certainly would be something I am very interested in1522learning more about with you and your staff and others. I do1523believe it is very important.1524    Senator Boozman. Thank you. Along with that, the National1525Wildlife Refuge system is a uniquely American success story,1526public lands managed for wildlife conservation and outdoor1527recreation, including hunting fishing. However, over time, the1528system has suffered due to staffing shortages, failing1529infrastructure, and inadequate funding, which collectively1530hinder habitat management and the quality of recreational1531opportunities.1532    As Director, what steps will you take to begin rebuilding1533the refuge system so these critical assets are fully optimized1534for both wildlife and the American people?1535    Mr. Nesvik. Well, Senator, first I will just tell you right1536up front, I completely agree that the National Wildlife Refuge1537system is a jewel for our Country. It is in my top five1538priority list of things that I am very interested in looking at1539if I am lucky enough to be confirmed.1540    I will tell you that I think the refuge system provides an1541opportunity for the Service to interact with the American1542public, and it also provides a venue for folks to experience1543the outdoors, to experience wildlife. Wildlife refuges provide1544a vast amount of public recreation and also as they were1545originally intended when the first refuge was created in1546Florida in, I believe, 1905 by Teddy Roosevelt, they are there1547to provide sanctuaries and places for wildlife to thrive.1548    I strongly believe that the wildlife refuge system is very1549important, and it is something that is going to have my focus.1550    Senator Boozman. Very good.1551    Ms. Kramer, Arkansas faces a range of water challenges,1552from agriculture needs in the deltas to drinking water1553infrastructure in our rural communities. One size fits all1554Federal water policy simply does not work in a State with such1555diverse needs.1556    Can you commit to ensuring the EPA will work1557collaboratively with Arkansas agencies, cities and communities,1558respecting their role as co-regulators and engaging1559meaningfully in the policymaking process?1560    Ms. Kramer. Absolutely, Senator.1561    Senator Boozman. Very good. How will you ensure that1562Arkansas continues to benefit from the strong, flexible water1563financing tools like the State Revolving Fund, so that local1564decision makers can invest in solutions that work for their1565specific needs?1566    Ms. Kramer. Thank you for the question, Senator. One of the1567priorities that I would have if I am honored to fill this role1568would be to take a look at those financing programs, such as1569the State Revolving Funds, to look for opportunities where EPA1570can cut red tape that has been established across the years.1571    There are some fundamental principles that have been set in1572statute by all of you that we would want to be sure that we are1573undertaking those, and that the implementation is going1574properly. However, allowing for additional flexibilities where1575we can in things like the intended use plan, as States submit1576them, would be something that I would be interested in1577exploring.1578    Senator Boozman. Very good. Thank you. I thank all of you1579for your willingness to serve.1580    Senator Whitehouse. [Presiding.] Thank you, Senator1581Boozman.1582    Senator Merkley, you are up.1583    Senator Merkley. Thank you all very much.1584    Mr. Donahue, I wanted to ask you a few questions. We have1585lots of grants in Oregon for different purposes that have been1586either canceled or put on the targeted list for cancellation.1587We find a number of these somewhat confusing as to why they are1588being canceled.1589    For example, a grant to reduce transportation congestion1590and facilitate tourism in rural Oregon, why would that be1591canceled under a Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, DEI,1592argument?1593    Mr. Donahue. Senator, thank you for your question. I have1594read the press about this; we received two letters from the1595committee yesterday as well. I have not seen this list, I am1596not familiar with it, so I can not speak to that today. I1597apologize.1598    Senator Merkley. You do not have any conception yourself,1599any explanation of why this would be something that should be1600canceled?1601    Mr. Donahue. As a policy matter, or legal one, I do not. I1602do not know enough context.1603    Senator Merkley. The second grant provides technical1604assistance to tribes and rural communities to improve water1605infrastructure. Is there a reason that that would be canceled1606under DEI? Is there something the Administration dislikes about1607water infrastructure being reconstructed in America?1608    Mr. Donahue. I do not believe that is the case, Senator.1609Again, I do not know all the context. I have not seen this memo1610or email. I have not seen this list.1611    Senator Merkley. Another grant is one that prepares for1612extreme wildfire smoke. It is a big issue in my State, not1613everywhere. Oregon had the earliest, most fierce wildfires in1614the Country last year, and then a lot of firefighters came from1615other States to help, then other States were hard hit, and our1616firefighters went to help.1617    Smoke is a growing problem, because of people with asthma.1618We get hospitals flooded with people who need safe places to1619breathe, if you will. It also has a big impact on commerce in1620ways that you would not anticipate, like furniture salesmen1621whose shops that now all the furniture is smoke-tainted, or1622wine grapes that are being affected and so forth.1623    One of the grants was to help communities prepare for1624extreme wildlife smoke. Is there a reason that that would be1625canceled under DEI?1626    Mr. Donahue. Senator, I hear your concerns. I myself have1627asthma, so I apologize if throughout this I am coughing a1628little bit with allergies in the air. Again, as with the1629others, I do not know the particulars of this, so I would be1630unable to comment on that.1631    Senator Merkley. Another grant was to upgrade a school1632built 100 years ago to serve as a shelter during extreme1633weather events. That could be smoke, that could be heat. We1634have had some pretty remarkable shifts. Anyone who is familiar1635with Portland, Oregon would be astounded to find out it hit 1151636degrees in Portland, Oregon.1637    Is there anything the administration particularly thinks is1638wrong with preparing to help people during extreme weather1639events have a safe haven?1640    Mr. Donahue. Senator, I do not believe so. We will look1641into that and the other grants.1642    Senator Merkley. Were all of these canceled because the1643administration said, let us run some AI list and anything that1644pops up with certain keywords is getting canceled?1645    Mr. Donahue. I do not believe so, Senator. I am not sure.1646    Senator Merkley. Well, a lot of things were canceled so1647quickly, so many different grants, or put on the list for1648potential termination. How was that list developed?1649    Mr. Donahue. Again, Senator, I was not involved in this. I1650do not know what email or memo you all are referring to yet. I1651have not checked that out.1652    Senator Merkley. Would the idea of just massively canceling1653grants because someone ran a search engine or an AI list and1654said, well, anything that ever mentions the word1655``opportunity,'' well, that is too close to ``equity,'' so we1656are going to cancel this grant, does the administration not1657like opportunity for everyone?1658    Mr. Donahue. I do not think that is the case, Senator. I1659think the administration is pretty clear that we--1660    Senator Merkley. If such a list was developed by running1661some computer program because it was done basically overnight,1662you would say that was irresponsible to do it in that fashion?1663    Mr. Donahue. Not necessarily, Senator. I would be very1664impressed with the technology. I get your question and your1665concern.1666    Senator Merkley. Given all the work that goes into1667communities to plan these things, and often very short1668personnel, rural communities have very few staff to write1669grants and prepare, it is often like the mayor has to do it or1670the city council member, they can not even afford a grant1671writer. They put all this work into getting these grants, and1672they are just wiped out by a computer program run overnight. Is1673not that really unfair and inequitable to rural communities1674across our Country?1675    Mr. Donahue. Senator, again, I do not know if AI or a1676computer program was used here for this. It sounds like you all1677have a little more information than I do myself.1678    Senator Merkley. Would you reverse these efforts and say,1679no, we have to go back and fairly examine each grant?1680    Mr. Donahue. Senator, if confirmed for the General Counsel1681position, I will ensure that the best legal advice is given in1682all matters including this one, to ensure that the agency is1683complying with the law.1684    Senator Merkley. Thank you.1685    Senator Whitehouse. Next on the list, I have Senator1686Ricketts.1687    Senator Ricketts. Thank you very much.1688    I am sorry Chairman Capito is not here, because she knows1689how much I love this committee, because we get to talk about1690biofuels all the time. It is one of my favorite topics and I1691know it is one of hers as well.1692    Mr. Donahue, one of your primary responsibilities as1693General Counsel is implementing the agency's statutory1694obligations. I think Senator Merkley, you were referring to1695that as well when you were responding back to as General1696Counsel you will give advice to the agency with regard to what1697they are supposed to be doing to follow the law.1698    One of those laws, the Rural Fuel Standard, very clearly1699mandates periodic rulemakings for renewable volume obligations.1700This is something where the last administration failed to1701comply with the law. In June 2022, the Biden Administration1702published retroactive rulemakings in 2021 and 2022 that under-1703protected biofuel volumes by billions of gallons.1704    The 2023 Renewable Volume Obligations, RVOs, were published1705a year later, too late in the year for producers or the fuel1706markets to adjust. The 2026 RVOs were due in November 2024, but1707will not be published until December 2025. Again, the last1708administration failed to follow the law.1709    Mr. Donahue, if you are confirmed, how do you plan to1710comply with the clear statutory directives outlined in the1711Renewable Fuels Standard to provide timely, reflective RVOs?1712    Mr. Donahue. Senator, thank you for raising this as you1713did, of course, in our meeting a couple of weeks ago. As Lee1714Zeldin, the Administrator, has indicated, this is a, fixing it1715from the agency's side is a priority for the administration.1716Things are in progress there.1717    In my role, if confirmed as General Counsel, I will ensure1718that the Office provides the best, again, legal advice in this1719matter. Again, as I think you may be leading to, a1720congressional fix may be appropriate here.1721    Senator Ricketts. Well, the congressional fix is more like1722on the E15. The law is already out here, Mr. Donahue, what the1723EPA is supposed to be doing with regard to their obligations on1724the RVOs, getting those published in a timely manner. What I am1725asking you is, will you give the administration, the EPA, the1726advice that they need to follow the statutory RVOs and do it in1727a timely manner, as the law prescribes?1728    Mr. Donahue. We will follow the law, Senator, yes.1729    Senator Ricketts. Great. That is what I wanted.1730    General Nesvik, congratulations on your nomination. After1731the last four years, the Interior Department stands to benefit1732greatly from your experience as a Brigadier General, and few1733people understand Federal land management agencies better than1734westerners.1735    As Governor of Nebraska, I hear about NEPA compliance1736issues relating to the Endanger Species Act implementation for1737critical energy infrastructure and other development projects.1738As Senator, I hear about these same issues. The Fish and1739Wildlife Service plays a critical role in implementing the1740Endangered Species Act, especially through this statute of1741Section 7 authorities.1742    Considering your experience in Wyoming as Game and Fish1743Director, how can Congress, and you mentioned this a little1744bit, how can Congress empower State and local stakeholders to1745play a more active role in Section 7 consultations with Fish1746and Wildlife?1747    Mr. Nesvik. Thank you, Senator. Certainly, Section 7 has a1748real purpose and meaning. I think it was a good piece of law or1749a good portion, a good component of the Endangered Species Act1750when it was enacted back in 1975. I do think there are some1751opportunities to be more prompt and timely in the way that1752Section 7 consultations are completed.1753    I look forward to being able to look and analyze exactly1754what processes are in place. I appreciate yesterday you shared1755with me some of the tools and techniques that you were able to1756use when you were Governor.1757    Things like that are different tools that I want to1758evaluate and look at to improve not only Section 7 but all1759permitting. There is a lot of permitting that the Fish and1760Wildlife Service is responsible for. There is also some1761opportunities, I think, too, with simplifying regulations.1762    Senator Ricketts. Great. Thank you, General.1763    Ms. Kramer, Senator Cramer had talked to you a little bit1764about Waters of the U.S. Obviously, this is a big deal for1765Nebraska as well. The Clean Water Act mentions navigable waters176650 times. Congress' intent could not have been more clear about1767what waters the EPA has responsibilities for.1768    We talked a little bit about, or you mentioned it, about1769landowners. Specifically, can you talk to me a little bit about1770agricultural producers and other development industries, and1771how will they benefit from President Trump's WOTUS rulemaking?1772    Ms. Kramer. Absolutely, thank you, Senator. I think, so to1773take it from the beginning, sorry, there are two parts to your1774question. I want to make sure that I hit them both. I think to1775the extent that we are talking about navigable, you are right.1776It is said extensively through the Clean Water Act. As a very1777helpful point, now we have Sackett to give us a little bit more1778flavor on the bones of how extensive that reach can be.1779    Looking forward to every stakeholder having the opportunity1780to provide extensive public comment as we work through the1781process. Once we get to the point of kicking off a rulemaking,1782it is vital that we hear the voices of agriculture. These are1783the folks that feed our Country. These are the folks that1784ensure that we have an available food supply that makes it so1785that grocery prices do not eat up an entire paycheck.1786    It is vital that as we lock down the process of coming up1787with a clear and definitive and durable rulemaking that they1788have a seat front and center at the table to ensure that while1789we are following the mandates of the Clean Water Act we also1790are doing so in a way that does not prohibit and preclude the1791growth of food for our Nation.1792    Senator Ricketts. Great. Thank you, Ms. Kramer.1793    Senator Whitehouse. Senator Padilla?1794    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair.1795    I want to begin by expressing my appreciation for EPA1796Administrator Zeldin's interest in one of my top EPA1797priorities, which is finally resolving the Tijuana River sewage1798crisis. For decades, communities in that part of Southern1799California have faced persistent both environmental as well as1800public health impacts of untreated sewage that has come across1801the border. Now, during President Trump's first term, the late1802Senator Feinstein as well as our House delegation from the San1803Diego region worked to secure $300 million to expand a1804wastewater treatment plant in San Diego. During the last couple1805of Congresses, we have worked together to secure another $3001806million to complete the necessary upgrades.1807    We recently invited Administrator Zeldin to tour the plant1808to see firsthand the challenges that we face. I would like to1809begin by asking you, Ms. Kramer, how familiar you are with this1810issue, with the projects. Assuming you are confirmed, I would1811look forward to working with you to bring this project to1812completion.1813    Ms. Kramer. Absolutely, thank you, Senator, for that1814question. During my first tenure at EPA, under the first Trump1815Administration, this is in fact one of the issues that worked1816on. EPA had been appropriate that first amount of funding that1817you referenced. I was involved in the consideration of the1818various projects that could be funded to ensure that this1819trans-boundary flow crisis, to be completely frank, raw sewage1820flowing anywhere, in my mind, is a crisis, comes to an end.1821    While I left before those projects were finally selected,1822since I have returned in the senior advisor role I have been1823brought back up to speed on exactly what is happening. I think1824the challenges that we are seeing there, one, stems to ensuring1825that the infrastructure that is in place, to ensure that these1826flows cease, but also to ensuring that there is communication,1827robust communication, that allows for partnership that is1828required to ensure that operation and maintenance of those1829infrastructure investments takes place.1830    It is especially easy when it is in the U.S., and it is a1831little bit more challenging when we have infrastructure on the1832other side of the border that we need to be collaborating on.1833    Senator Padilla. Well, that is music to my ears, your1834familiarity with it, your history with it, your commitment to1835it as a priority. Yes, collaboration is key, not just with1836partners south of the border, but even within the Federal1837Government, you have brought to bear the U.S. Army Corps of1838Engineers and the intricacies of the State Department1839involvement here. Thank you for that.1840    Next question is going to be for Mr. Nesvik. I want to1841first of all thank you for your public service both as well for1842wildlife manager in Wyoming as well as in the armed services.1843If confirmed, you will be the latest in a long line of folks1844facing a steep learning curve on the contentious water issues1845in California, which require a large amount of careful1846attention and collaboration as well.1847    In the Klamath Basin, for example, in the far northern part1848of the State, water scarcity challenges, our efforts to support1849agriculture, restore fish populations, and improve water1850quality. At Lake Tahoe, invasive species and water quality1851concerns threaten the lake's clarity.1852    In the Sacramento-San Joaquin Bay delta, we are balancing1853the water needs of agriculture with the need to protect1854endangered species and adapt to our changing climate. In1855Southern California we face serious challenges like habitat1856loss and water scarcity, with the Salton Sea being a prime1857example of the need for Federal and State cooperation.1858    Each of these, let alone all taken together, are certainly1859tough, high-stakes issues that demand significant time,1860attention, and collaboration between Federal and State1861governments, and a shared commitment to practical solutions.1862    I am looking to responsible public servants to help inform1863the President and work with partners on the ground. That I1864guess is my first question to you, Mr. Nesvik. If you are1865confirmed, are you willing to roll up your sleeves and listen1866to both career professionals at Fish and Wildlife Service as1867well as experts within California's State agencies as you1868navigate these complex issues?1869    Mr. Nesvik. Yes, Senator, I appreciate that question. I1870know water is an extremely important issue for California. I1871know it is very complex. I come from a State that is a1872headwater State. In my entire career, I have dealt with water1873policy and the challenges and the contentiousness around water.1874In Wyoming, we say whiskey is for drinking and water is for1875fighting.1876    [Laughter.]1877    Mr. Nesvik. It is true. Yes, I do commit to diving deep1878into this issue. I know it is really important to you and your1879constituents and frankly, other States as well.1880    Senator Padilla. We are interconnected by the Colorado1881River, and that speaks again to the need for Federal-States,1882plural, collaboration.1883    On just the Federal Government side, I want to make sure1884that you commit to working with the State of California as well1885as the Bureau of Reclamation, National Oceanic and Atmospheric1886Administration, NOAA, and other executive agencies, to assure1887that we are effectively making progress on California's water1888and wildlife challenges, and all the States, for that matter.1889    Mr. Nesvik. Absolutely, Senator.1890    Senator Padilla. Thank you very much.1891    I have a followup question that I will submit for the1892record. In response to a question from Senator Boozman, you1893made mention of migration patterns. I know in Wyoming you have1894been working on it, as we have in California, on advancing1895wildlife corridors as an important strategy to maintain both1896development and wildlife populations. I look forward to working1897with you on that as well.1898    Mr. Nesvik. Absolutely. Thank you.1899    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Madam Chair.1900    Senator Capito. [Presiding.] Sure. Senator Sullivan?1901    Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to thank1902the witnesses for their willingness to serve their Country.1903    General, I have a lot of questions for you. We are going to1904meet here soon.1905    As you probably know, Alaska has unique wildlife and1906management challenges spanning 16 wildlife refuges, 76 million1907acres of Fish and Wildlife Service managed land. If you want a1908little context, that is much larger than the State of Wyoming,190916 million acres bigger than Wyoming, just our Fish and1910Wildlife Service land.1911    Hopefully, you have read Alaska National Interest Lands1912Conservation Act, ANILCA. Have you read the Sturgeon I and1913Sturgeon II Supreme Court cases?1914    Mr. Nesvik. I have read, Senator, about ANILCA. I do not1915know Sturgeon I and Sturgeon II.1916    Senator Sullivan. Sturgeon I and Sturgeon II, recent1917Supreme Court cases, twice, nine to zero, the Supreme Court of1918the United States said Alaska is unique. All these Federal1919lands, all these Federal agencies who try to shut us down, we1920are unique. It was a great, very strong statement, nine to zero1921twice in two years. I would like you to read those cases. You1922and I are going to have a long discussion.1923    The Supreme Court has said that ANILCA recognizes that1924Alaska is different. It is unique. It is a vast wilderness. Its1925subsistence needs, and the need for special treatment in the1926management of its resources are all reflected in the Federal1927law ANILCA, which a lot of Alaskans do not like, I do not like,1928but at least there are some protections.1929    We are unique in other ways. When Democrats get into power,1930they try to crush my State. This is what I call the Alaska Last1931Frontier Lockup, 70 executive orders and executive actions, 701932from the Biden Administration exclusively focused on Alaska,1933most of which were hurting the Native people of my State.1934    Now, why did they do this? The radical far left1935environmental groups want to crush my State.1936    Will you work with me and the President of the United1937States, I am going to get to this, to undo this illegal, by the1938way, most of these were illegal, seven zero, the national media1939never wrote the story, not one story, can you imagine? A1940Federal Government comes and says, I am going to crush one1941State, and really hurt the Native people, and we are going to1942do it illegally, and nobody ever wrote about that. It is1943amazing.1944    They are not going to write about this, either. Most of1945these actions were illegal. Yesterday, a very liberal judge in1946Alaska said the Biden Administration's shutting down of the1947Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, ANWAR, lease sales was not1948illegal. New York Times, Washington Post, going to write that1949story? No. They love it when my State gets crushed.1950    Here is help, help is on the way, though. Day one of this1951administration, the Trump Administration, President of the1952United States issued this executive order, unleashing Alaska's1953extraordinary resource potential. Day one. I want to thank the1954President and his team. Undoing all the illegal stuff that they1955did against my State, hurting my constituents, hurting working1956families, especially hurting the Native people.1957    By the way, whenever you hear the Biden folks and some of1958my national Democrat friends talk about indigenous people and1959they really care about them, big asterisk, except if you are1960indigenous in Alaska. Then they come for you. I have a list a1961mile long of how national Democrats in this city come after1962negatively the Native people of Alaska, which really makes me1963mad. You can kind of tell.1964    Will you commit to work with me on implementing the1965President's day one executive order, very long, very detailed,1966on unleashing Alaska's extraordinary resource potential and1967economy and jobs in my State? We are the only State that has1968one of these. It is because we got crushed by Biden. Can I get1969your commitment on that?1970    Mr. Nesvik. Senator, absolutely, I look forward to our1971meeting, I think tomorrow. I also look forward to visiting your1972State and learning about a lot of issues that you are very1973passionate about.1974    Senator Sullivan. I am very passionate about it. I do not1975like being singled out by Democrats, Chuck Schumer, to crush my1976State. It is just wrong. Again, I want to thank the President,1977this President, for what he is doing to help Alaska.1978    Ms. Kramer, I got a couple quick questions for you. Alaska1979has over 170 million acres of wetlands subject to Federal1980jurisdiction. It is home to 63 percent of the waters subject to1981the Clean Water Act and 65 percent of the Nation's wetlands.1982Again, we kind of have a little bit of issues with our Federal1983agencies.1984    In light of the Supreme Court's decision in Sackett, will1985you assure me that permafrost and permafrost wetlands are not1986considered Waters of the U.S.?1987    Ms. Kramer. Thank you, Senator, for that question. I know1988you will appreciate the fact that I cannot prejudge a1989rulemaking outcome. However, I will commit to ensuring that we1990follow Sackett to the letter of the law. If you would have me,1991I also would love the opportunity to come visit your State to1992see the features you are talking about in person, to be able to1993help as we walk down that path.1994    Senator Sullivan. Great. I would like actually commitment1995from all three of you to come to Alaska and visit. We have so1996many unique challenges. I have just mentioned two. There is a1997whole bunch of other ones.1998    Mr. Nesvik. Absolutely, Senator.1999    Ms. Kramer. Absolutely.2000    Mr. Donahue. I would love to.2001    Senator Sullivan. Mr. Donahue, real quick, I am sorry I am2002over my time, but these are such important issues, the EPA has2003a long and very negative history of oppressive tactics in my2004State. I have talked many times about the Chicken Alaska raid2005on our placer miners, 20, 30 armed EPA agents, body armor,2006assault weapons, to arrest placer miners for Clean Water Act2007violations. They found zero, Okay? Scared the heck out of my2008constituents, by the way. They were lucky. A lot of my2009constituents are armed. We take the Second Amendment very2010seriously.2011    Then just a couple of years ago, a group of 30 armed EPA2012agents, some from the lower 48, were doing raids on mechanic2013shops in Alaska, armed raids, 30 agents. By the way, I do not2014even know why the EPA has armed agents. One of my first bills2015is to get rid of the EPA, they just go to State troopers and2016say, we are going to do something, why does the EPA have SWAT2017teams? Calling DOGE, calling DOGE. Right? Let us get rid of the2018EPA's armed brigades, what the hell is that? We do not need2019that in America.2020    Can I get your commitment to as opposed to coming up to my2021State with 30 armed agents scaring the heck out of everybody2022working with us on compliance with the law rather than jumping2023to very aggressive, very aggressive, enforcement? I mean, they2024should have gone to these placer miners, these mechanic shops2025saying, hey, we think you are violating the Clean Air Act, we2026want to work with you, we will fine you, civil fine. No. They2027show up, 30 armed agents.2028    By the way, the EPA never answered my questions. What were2029these lower 48 agents doing in my State? Did they go fishing2030after they--it is crazy. Can I get your commitment on this? It2031is a real problem. Someone is going to get hurt. They keep2032doing it in my State, and we do not appreciate it.2033    Mr. Donahue. Senator, I hear your concerns. It is not the2034first I have heard about this. Just to point out, this is a2035different office within the EPA.2036    Senator Sullivan. It is not under your General Counsel?2037    Mr. Donahue. It is not Office of the General Counsel, OGC.2038It is the Office of Enforcement and Compliance Assurance. The2039Office of General Counsel works hand in hand with OGC, or with2040OECA, rather, and the regional counsels in the regions as well2041as the Department of Justice on a lot of this.2042    I can commit to you that we will look into it, and2043hopefully see a path forward to resolve your concerns.2044    Senator Sullivan. Great. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.2045    Senator Capito. Senator Schiff?2046    Senator Schiff. Thank you, Madam Chair.2047    Mr. Donahue, how long have you been practicing as a member2048of the bar?2049    Mr. Donahue. Since 2021, Senator.2050    Senator Schiff. For roughly four years?2051    Mr. Donahue. That is correct, Senator. I graduated law2052school years before that, in 2017.2053    Senator Schiff. As a practicing lawyer four years, do you2054know how many attorneys you will be supervising at the EPA?2055    Mr. Donahue. Yes, Senator. It is over 200.2056    Senator Schiff. Over 200 lawyers?2057    Mr. Donahue. Yes. Thankfully, there is a very well laid-out2058hierarchical structure.2059    Senator Schiff. You would be at the top of that hierarchy,2060right?2061    Mr. Donahue. That is correct.2062    Senator Schiff. Let me ask you, with your four years of2063experience, can you open a criminal investigation without2064evidence of wrongdoing?2065    Mr. Donahue. Senator, I am not a criminal pro expert. The2066answer to your question would be no.2067    Senator Schiff. If an attorney was asked to open a criminal2068investigation without probable cause, to believe there was2069evidence of a crime, that would be improper and abuse of2070authority, would it not?2071    Mr. Donahue. It very well may be, yes, Senator.2072    Senator Schiff. You are aware, are not you, that a senior2073Department of Justice official with 24 years of experience2074practicing as an Assistant United States Attorney, AUSA, was2075asked to write a letter to a bank about the Greenhouse Gas2076Reduction Fund and to assert that the funds needed to be frozen2077because of a criminal investigation? You are aware of that?2078    Mr. Donahue. I read about this in the press, as I am sure2079you did. I was not involved and still not involved in whatever2080criminal probe is ongoing.2081    Senator Schiff. You have been a participant in meetings and2082discussions over trying to go after the Greenhouse Gas2083Reduction Fund, have you not?2084    Mr. Donahue. Senator, OGC is always involved in matters of2085great significance as this, to provide sound legal advice.2086    Senator Schiff. I am not asking about the office generally.2087I am asking about you personally. You personally have been2088involved in discussions with others at EPA about going after2089these funds, have you not?2090    Mr. Donahue. Senator, I have been involved in a variety of2091discussions, including those concerning the Greenhouse Gas2092Reduction Fund. Mostly on the civil defense side, once we were2093sued by three of the big recipients.2094    Senator Schiff. Knowing that it would be improper abuse of2095power to open investigation or to allege that investigation was2096ongoing without evidence of wrongdoing, you are aware that a2097senior attorney at the U.S. Attorney's Office of 24 years2098resigned because she felt she could not ethically write such a2099letter to the bank or open such an investigation? Are you aware2100of that?2101    Mr. Donahue. As I indicated before, Senator, I did see2102those news reports. I am not intimately familiar with her, her2103work, or any----2104    Senator Schiff. Well, let me ask you this. If you were2105asked by Lee Zeldin to instruct the lawyers in the Criminal2106Division at EPA to open an investigation without evidence of a2107crime, would you instruct the attorneys to do it, nonetheless?2108Mr. Donahue. Senator, the direct answer to your question would2109be no. I will follow the law.2110    Senator Schiff. What should the repercussion be if2111attorneys, as Denise Chong alleges, instructed her to do so in2112the absence of probable cause? What should the consequence be2113for those lawyers?2114    Mr. Donahue. I would not want to comment on that, Senator.2115    Senator Schiff. Well, I would like you to comment on it.2116You are going to be overseeing the Department. You will be2117responsible for disciplining attorneys who engage in unethical2118conduct.2119    What would your recommendation be for how to discipline an2120attorney that would use the coercive power of the government,2121would announce an investigation without a basis for political2122reason? What would your recommendation be? Should they continue2123to work at the EPA? Should they continue to work in the Justice2124Department?2125    Mr. Donahue. Senator, I would not like to answer2126hypotheticals.2127    Senator Schiff. Well, this is all too real a circumstance,2128not hypothetical. The actions that have taken place right now,2129that have caused senior prosecutors to resign over this action2130by EPA, that have caused other prosecutors to resign over other2131Department of Justice misconduct regarding the Mayor of New2132York, the illegal actions to target law firms that represent2133clients or have in the past averse to the President's personal2134interests, these are all terrible abuses of the coercive power2135of the Federal Government, its most dangerous power, the power2136to prosecute people.2137    We need people in all these departments who are willing to2138say no, and are willing to sanction those who engage in that2139kind of unethical conduct.2140    Madam Chair, I yield back.2141    Senator Capito. Thank you.2142    Senator Alsobrooks?2143    Senator Alsobrooks. Thank you so much, Madam Chair.2144    Ms. Kramer, Mr. Donahue and Mr. Nesvik, first of all,2145welcome. Thanks for being here and congratulations to each of2146you on your nominations.2147    Ms. Kramer, if confirmed, you will be head of the office2148that ensures safe drinking water and protects our watersheds2149and aquatic ecosystems. Mr. Donahue, if confirmed, you will be2150responsible for ensuring that the EPA follows the law.2151    My questions begin by raising the importance of the2152Chesapeake Bay. This is relevant for both of the positions that2153you have been nominated for. The Bay is so important as a2154source of drinking water, and it is important to Marylanders.2155It serves as a habitat for wildlife, it drives tourism in the2156region, it supports our seafood industry.2157    Now, the funding that Congress recently passed continues2158previous funding levels for the Bay, that is $92 million, for2159the EPA Chesapeake Bay program. Broken down, it is about $102160million for Chesapeake small watershed grants, $10 million for2161innovative nutrient and sediment reduction programs, $8 million2162for the State to target pollution. That is the greatest impact2163on Bay water quality.2164    I just want to ask each of you whether you can commit that2165you will follow the law and get those dollars on the ground2166without delay in Maryland?2167    Ms. Kramer. Thank you, Senator. Absolutely.2168    Senator Alsobrooks. Thank you.2169    Mr. Donahue. Senator, I love the Chesapeake Bay. I will2170absolutely commit to that.2171    Senator Alsobrooks. Thank you.2172    Second, Congress reauthorized, this is for Mr. Nesvik,2173Congress reauthorized the $8 million that Congress intended.2174Will you make sure that the grants get out the door2175expeditiously?2176    Mr. Nesvik. Excellent question. Thank you, Senator. I am2177familiar with the Chesapeake Bay and how important it is to2178many States, not just one. It is such a central and integral2179part of a larger ecosystem.2180    I remember sitting in front of this committee probably six2181or seven years ago on a bill that included funding for2182Chesapeake Bay. Absolutely, I think there has been some2183excellent, exceptional progress made there on a lot of great2184initiatives with water quality and wildlife habitat. I am2185certainly interested in continuing to execute any directives or2186appropriations by Congress.2187    Senator Alsobrooks. Okay, so you support the $8 million for2188that Chesapeake Works Worlds of Work, WOW, program for2189Maryland?2190    Mr. Nesvik. Senator, yes, I do.2191    Senator Alsobrooks. Okay, thank you so much.2192    Now, unfortunately, and this again is for Mr. Nesvik, the2193latest round of Chesapeake WOW grants has faced some delays. We2194have seen the Eastern Shore Land Conservancy, for example,2195received a grant of $500,000, and the administration has frozen2196this funding. This project, in cooperation with private2197landowners, is set to protect approximately 500 acres of marsh2198habitat between the Blackwater National Wildlife Refuge and2199Nanticoke River in Dorchester.2200    Freezing these funds, as you might imagine, really reduces2201efficiencies, because the cost of the project could increase.2202    If confirmed, will you work with me to ensure that the Fish2203and Wildlife Service and partner agencies can quickly release2204the funds for this project, so that the intended restoration2205work can continue?2206    Mr. Nesvik. Yes, Senator, absolutely. I have a lot of2207experience and I have found a lot of achievement in being able2208to work with private landowners who are incentivized to provide2209good wildlife habitat. I am certainly very interested in2210working with you on this.2211    Senator Alsobrooks. Thank you.2212    Just quickly, I only have a few seconds left, for Ms.2213Kramer, I know the PFAS effluent work you have done in this2214area. You know the importance of all of the efforts that have2215been made. In 2024, Maryland received $124 million for drinking2216water, wastewater, stormwater infrastructure upgrades, all2217through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law that you worked2218really hard on.2219    Now, as you might know, the administration has pledged to2220roll back the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law related funding. I2221just wonder whether or not you will continue to work with us2222and work with members of this committee to continue2223implementing the law or whether you would agree to roll back in2224concert with the administration the Bipartisan Infrastructure2225funding?2226    Ms. Kramer. Thank you, Senator. I of course will commit to2227working with this committee to follow the law.2228    Senator Alsobrooks. Thank you so much.2229    I yield. Thank you.2230    Senator Capito. Senator Kelly, thank you.2231    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all2232of our witnesses for being here today.2233    I will start with Ms. Kramer. Ms. Kramer, thank you for2234being here. I want to start with PFAS. As I have spoken about a2235lot in this committee, PFAS contamination is having a big2236impact on our groundwater aquifers in Arizona. In both Phoenix2237and Tucson, especially in Tucson, we have banked groundwater2238for decades to create resiliency, if we have to, in dealing2239with this long-term drought.2240    The problem we now have is that there is PFAS contamination2241in our groundwater aquifers, making it hard to access our2242backup groundwater.2243    Ms. Kramer, when you worked in the Senate, I know you2244helped write the water cleanup provisions included in the2245Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, do you think the programs2246created in that law to address PFAS contamination have been2247successful?2248    Ms. Kramer. Thank you, Senator, for that question. That is2249a great question. I think defining success with relation to2250PFAS is tough and a bit of a moving target. I say that simply2251because it seems that every year that goes by, we learn more,2252and we also have a better understanding of the impacts that2253have occurred to groundwater systems and the impacts that are2254facing drinking water and wastewater systems as they work2255toward addressing these challenges.2256    I think incremental progress is progress. Every step in the2257right direction is a good one. There is a lot of work yet to be2258done in this space.2259    Senator Kelly. Is it fair to say that because of these2260programs we have been able to remove some PFAS from drinking2261water?2262    Mr. Kramer. Absolutely, Senator.2263    Senator Kelly. After those programs expire in 2026, what2264are the next steps that Congress and EPA should take to2265continue to address PFAS contamination?2266    Ms. Kramer. Thank you for that question, Senator. I have to2267be mindful of the fact that I know I am not allowed to lobby in2268front of you to tell you what I would recommend Congress does.2269    However, what I can tell you is two things. One is that EPA2270is going to be evaluating all of its tools to address PFAS.2271    The second thing I will tell you is that along the way, if2272I am confirmed in this position, we will have conversations2273that will involve Senate staff and House staff to provide2274information as to what those actions are that we have, what the2275limitations are of the law, for us to be able to go further, or2276to address things with a finer point. Hopefully, that will2277provide a sound basis for you, Senator, for your colleagues,2278for your staff to be able to see the challenges that we face2279and address those head-on should you choose to do so.2280    Senator Kelly. All right. Thank you.2281    Mr. Donahue, do you support the principle embedded in the2282Superfund law that parties responsible for pollution should be2283held to strict retroactive, joint and several?2284    Mr. Donahue. Senator, the polluter pays model that is2285reflected there I believe is a very effective model for cleanup2286and holding polluters accountable, yes.2287    Senator Kelly. That sounds like a yes, thank you.2288    Do you agree that Perfluorooctanoic acid, PFOA, and PFAS2289were appropriately designated as hazardous substances under the2290Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and2291Liability Act, CERCLA, law last year?2292    Mr. Donahue. Senator, thank you for that. I am not going to2293comment on that directly, because that is a policy matter and I2294am here potentially for a legal job. I know that there are2295other tools that many have argued are better suited for dealing2296with the PFAS problem without unleashing an enormous amount of2297liability that could be felt throughout the entire economy.2298    Senator Kelly. How about from a personal perspective? Do2299you want PFOA and PFAS to be in your drinking water?2300    Mr. Donahue. I think the PFAS problem is very, it is2301critical that we address it, so no, I do not. I actually have a2302PFAS filter, or a filter that filters out PFAS at home. No.2303    Senator Kelly. Does the CERCLA statute allow for EPA to2304create carveouts or exemptions for specific industries or2305chemicals?2306    Mr. Donahue. Senator, I think it would depend on how that2307is done, potentially.2308    Senator Kelly. No, does it currently allow for carveouts?2309    Mr. Donahue. No, Senator.2310    Senator Kelly. It does not. Okay.2311    Will you commit to ensuring EPA implements the recent2312designation of PFOA and PFAS consistent with the CERCLA law?2313    Mr. Donahue. Senator, I will commit to you that if2314confirmed, the Office of General Counsel will ensure that the2315Administrator and the client offices receive the best legal2316advice, so that we do comply with the law, CERCLA in this case.2317Yes.2318    Senator Kelly. Thank you.2319    Madam Chair, could I have another minute, or maybe 902320seconds?2321    Back to Ms. Kramer. I also want to ask about the WOTUS2322definition. Administrator Zeldin has named this as one of a2323number of regulations the administration plans to address. A2324frustration I voiced for years is that the litigation around2325how we defined WOTUS creates real problems for Arizona. Some2326definitions have captured literally every dry wash and ditch in2327the State. Others have eliminated critical protections for2328drinking water in Arizona. In just the last four years, I think2329there has been three or four regulatory changes for the WOTUS2330definition.2331    Ms. Kramer, now that the Supreme Court has weighed in on2332WOTUS, on the definition, how will you work to make sure that2333we establish a durable definition of WOTUS that provides2334certainty for stakeholders across the Country, including in2335desert States like Arizona?2336    Ms. Kramer. Thank you for that question, Senator. I am2337aware of the challenges that your State faces, and I think,2338going back to the cooperative federalism framework for just a2339second, that also allows some assistance outside of just the2340Federal jurisdiction and moving forward.2341    With respect to WOTUS specifically, we will be following2342Sackett. To the extent that we have ventured down a rulemaking2343path, the goal will be to refine those remaining somewhat2344ambiguous phrases and terms that are remaining in Sackett to2345ensure that we are doing a little refining around the edges,2346hopefully to stop the ping-pong that you referenced and the2347litigation going back and forth. That does no one any good, not2348the regulator, not the regulated community.2349    As we venture down that path, even before we have started2350to venture down that path, we will be holding robust listening2351sessions and opening a docket to take public comments. That was2352something that was kicked off by the Office of Water a couple2353of weeks ago at this point.2354    Through those conversations, through that public comment2355process, that is the opportunity that we will have, and2356especially if I am confirmed, we will take those unique2357perspectives into account to ensure that we are regulating2358while acknowledging the unique challenges that face every State2359across this Country.2360    To the extent that there is something along the edges that2361does not fall into the Federal jurisdiction that would be2362defined via rule, that would be the opportunity for the State2363to be able to regulate with a little bit more stringency than2364perhaps where we land on the rule.2365    Durability and the ability for people to clearly understand2366the rule, that is the name of the game here.2367    Senator Kelly. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thanks2368for the extra time.2369    Senator Capito. All right, so I want to ask unanimous2370consent to enter into the record several letters of support for2371today's nominees. Without objection, these letters will be2372entered into the record.2373    [The referenced information follows:]23742375    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]23762377    Senator Capito. With no further questions, I would like to2378thank the nominees, all three of you, thank you very much, and2379all of my colleagues, for participating in today's hearing.2380    Senators who wish to submit written questions, I know they2381are all listening, Senators who wish to submit written2382questions for the record have until 5 p.m. next Monday, March238331st, to do so. The nominees' responses to those questions are2384due back to the committee no later than 5 p.m. on Monday, April23857th, and will be submitted for the record.2386    With that, this hearing is adjourned. Thank you all very2387much.2388    [Whereupon, at 12:03 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]23892390    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]23912392                              [all]