Hearings to examine the nominations of Preston Griffith, of Virginia, to be Under Secretary, and Dario Gil, of New York, to be Under Secretary for Science, both of the Department of Energy.

1[Senate Hearing 119-48]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                                                         S. Hrg. 119-4856                      GRIFFITH AND GIL NOMINATIONS78=======================================================================910                                HEARING1112                               BEFORE THE1314                              COMMITTEE ON15                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES16                          UNITED STATES SENATE1718                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS1920                             FIRST SESSION2122                                   to2324  CONSIDER THE NOMINATIONS OF PRESTON WELLS GRIFFITH III TO BE UNDER25 SECRETARY OF ENERGY AND DR. DARIO GIL TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF ENERGY26                              FOR SCIENCE2728                               __________2930                             APRIL 10, 20253132                               __________3334[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3536                       Printed for the use of the37               Committee on Energy and Natural Resources3839        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov4041                                __________4243                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE4460-024                     WASHINGTON : 20264546-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------4748               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES4950                        MIKE LEE, Utah, Chairman51JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico52JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon53STEVE DAINES, Montana                MARIA CANTWELL, Washington54TOM COTTON, Arkansas                 MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii55DAVID McCORMICK, Pennsylvania        ANGUS S. KING, Jr., Maine56JAMES C. JUSTICE, West Virginia      CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada57BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado58CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        ALEX PADILLA, California59LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska               RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona60JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota6162                  Wendy Baig, Majority Staff Director63            Patrick J. McCormick III, Majority Chief Counsel64                 Jasmine Hunt, Minority Staff Director65                 Sam E. Fowler, Minority Chief Counsel6667                            C O N T E N T S6869                              ----------7071                           OPENING STATEMENTS7273                                                                   Page74Lee, Hon. Mike, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Utah............     175Heinrich, Hon. Martin, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from New76  Mexico.........................................................     27778                               WITNESSES7980Griffith III, Preston Wells, nominated to be Under Secretary of81  Energy.........................................................     382Gil, Dr. Dario, nominated to be Under Secretary of Energy for83  Science........................................................     88485          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED8687Alivisatos, A. Paul:88    Letter for the Record........................................    5289American Conservation Coalition:90    Letter for the Record........................................    5791Aoun, Joseph E.:92    Letter for the Record........................................    5393Association for the Advancement of Artificial Intelligence:94    Letter for the Record........................................    5595Becker, Mark:96    Letter for the Record........................................    5897Chandrakasan, Anantha P.:98    Letter for the Record........................................    5999Chiang, Mung:100    Letter for the Record........................................    61101Cordova, France A.:102    Letter for the Record........................................    62103Dabbar, Paul M. et al.:104    Letter for the Record........................................    63105Dirks, Nicholas B.:106    Letter for the Record........................................    65107Ferrini-Mundy, Joan:108    Letter for the Record........................................    67109Garimella, Suresh:110    Letter for the Record........................................    69111Gil, Dr. Dario:112    Opening Statement............................................     8113    Written Testimony............................................    10114    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    44115Griffith III, Preston Wells:116    Opening Statement............................................     3117    Written Testimony............................................     6118    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    33119Hamre, John J.:120    Letter for the Record........................................    71121Hardy, Randy and Steve Wright:122    Newsdata.com article entitled ``Guest: Letter to BPA123      Customers and Northwest Consumers'' published on February124      14, 2025...................................................    27125Heinrich, Hon. Martin:126    Opening Statement............................................     2127Information Technology Industry Council:128    Letter for the Record........................................    73129Lane, Neal:130    Letter for the Record........................................    74131Lee, Hon. Mike:132    Opening Statement............................................     1133Liu, Tsu-Jae King:134    Letter for the Record........................................    75135Martin, William Flynn:136    Letter for the Record........................................    77137Merzbacher, Celia:138    Letter for the Record........................................    78139Mihaljevic, Tomislav:140    Letter for the Record........................................    79141Novelli, Bill et al.:142    Letter for the Record........................................    80143Paglia, Vincenzo:144    Letter for the Record........................................    82145Parikh, Sudip S.:146    Letter for the Record........................................    84147Schmidt, Martin A.:148    Letter for the Record........................................    85149Snyder, Barbara R.:150    Letter for the Record........................................    87151Spergel, David:152    Letter for the Record........................................    88153Wilson, Heather:154    Letter for the Record........................................    90155156                      GRIFFITH AND GIL NOMINATIONS157158                              ----------159160                        THURSDAY, APRIL 10, 2025161162                                       U.S. Senate,163                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,164                                                    Washington, DC.165    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:00 a.m. in166Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Mike Lee,167Chairman of the Committee, presiding.168169              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE LEE,170                     U.S. SENATOR FROM UTAH171172    The Chairman. The Committee will come to order.173    Welcome to the Committee's fourth nomination hearing in the174119th Congress. Today, we will receive testimony from two175distinguished Americans who have been nominated by President176Trump for senior offices within our Committee's jurisdiction,177and we have a lot to cover in today's discussions. So first178will be Preston Wells Griffith III, nominated to be Under179Secretary of Energy, and second will be Dr. Dario Gil,180nominated to be Under Secretary of the Department of Energy for181Science. And finally, I have been informed this morning that182Ms. Kathleen Sgamma has withdrawn her consideration to be the183Director of the Bureau of Land Management at the Department of184the Interior. These nominees deserve to be confirmed, and each185has my strong support. I thank President Trump for nominating186them and giving us the chance to review them.187    As I mentioned a moment ago, I was informed by the White188House earlier today that one of the nominees scheduled for189consideration at today's hearing, Kathleen Sgamma, nominated to190serve as the Director of the Bureau of Land Management, is191withdrawn from consideration. That leaves us with two nominees192before the Committee, Preston Wells Griffith III, again,193nominated to be Under Secretary of Energy, and Dr. Dario Gil,194nominated to serve as Under Secretary of Energy for Science.195Each of these positions carries significant responsibility and196each nominee will, if confirmed, help shape the future of197American energy policy and scientific innovation.198    Mr. Griffith is well known to many of us. He served at the199Department of Energy, at the Office of Management and Budget,200and at the White House during the first Trump Administration.201If confirmed, he will be tasked with overseeing some of the202Department of Energy's most consequential applied energy203programs at a time when our nation's electric power grid is204being stressed by a combination of reckless regulatory205mandates, rapid retirements of baseload capacity, and206overreliance on intermittent sources of power. I look forward207to hearing how Mr. Griffith plans to course correct and ensure208that DOE policies serve energy affordability, reliability, and209national security interests.210    Dr. Gil would lead the Department of Energy's sprawling211science portfolio, which includes the 17 critical national212laboratories. These labs are home to some of the most advanced213research on earth, but they have also become vulnerable to214infiltration by hostile foreign interests. I look forward to215hearing about how Dr. Gil will defend the labs from espionage,216protect taxpayer investment, and refocus the Department of217Energy's science mission on basic energy research that218strengthens the U.S. economy.219    These nominees bring unique perspective and valuable220experience to their respective positions, and I look forward to221hearing how they intend to fulfill the responsibilities of222their respective roles and how they will bring accountability,223transparency, and balance to the agencies that they have been224asked to head.225    With that, I now recognize our Ranking Member, Senator226Heinrich.227228          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARTIN HEINRICH,229                  U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO230231    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman Lee, and welcome Mr.232Griffith and Dr. Gil.233    The Committee meets this morning to consider the234nominations of Mr. Griffith to be Under Secretary of Energy and235Dr. Gil to be Under Secretary of Science. I understand that Ms.236Sgamma will not be appearing before this Committee today.237    The Office of Under Secretary of Energy was established in2381977 to perform functions and duties assigned by the Secretary,239and the Office of Under Secretary for Science was added in 2005240to serve as the Secretary's science and technology advisor, to241oversee the Department's research and development programs, and242to carry out additional duties assigned by the Secretary. The243flexibility built into these two offices has enabled different244Secretaries to shift functions and programs between the two245Under Secretaries. Most recently, Secretary Granholm combined246both the Science and Energy offices under the Under Secretary247for Science, and she consolidated the Department's Loan and248Infrastructure programs under the Under Secretary of Energy,249renaming the office as the Under Secretary for Infrastructure.250I am told that Secretary Wright has kept Secretary Granholm's251organizational structure, at least for now, but I am most252interested to hear from Dr. Gil and Mr. Griffith what issues253they believe will be in their portfolios, whether there are any254plans or if there have been discussions about reorganizing255these offices.256    Overhanging our hearing this morning are, of course, the257reductions in the Department's workforce, the grant and loan258funding freezes, the contract uncertainties, and the so-called259hit list of programs targeted for termination, all of which260threaten the important work of the Department.261    I will be particularly interested to hear from the two262Under Secretary nominees how they will balance their competing263obligations to the President who has nominated them and the264statutory requirements enacted by Congress governing the265Department's programs.266    Thank you, Chairman.267    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Heinrich.268    The rules of the Committee require that all nominees269appearing before this Committee be sworn in in connection with270their testimony. So, if you would both please stand and raise271your right hands, I will administer the oath.272    Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to273provide to the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources274will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?275    [Witness panel sworn.]276    The Chairman. Thank you.277    Now, you may be seated. I will have each of you begin your278opening statements in a moment, but there are just three279questions that are typically posed by the Committee before we280begin this process for nominees.281    First, will you be available to appear before the Committee282and other Congressional Committees to represent departmental283positions and respond to issues of concern to Congress, should284you be confirmed?285    Mr. Griffith.286    Mr. Griffith. Yes, sir.287    The Chairman. Mr. Gil.288    Dr. Gil. Yes, sir.289    The Chairman. Second, are you aware of any personal290holdings, investments, or interests that could constitute a291conflict of interest or create the appearance of such a292conflict, should you be confirmed and assume the office to293which you have been nominated by the President?294    Mr. Griffith. No, Chairman.295    Dr. Gil. No.296    The Chairman. Thank you.297    And third, are you involved in or do you have any assets in298a blind trust?299    Mr. Griffith. No.300    Dr. Gil. I do not.301    The Chairman. Thank you.302    With that, we will have you give your opening introductory303remarks.304    Mr. Griffith, we'll start with you, and please feel free to305introduce any family you may have brought with you. Thank you.306307           STATEMENT OF PRESTON WELLS GRIFFITH III,308           NOMINATED TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF ENERGY309310    Mr. Griffith. Thank you.311    Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich, and distinguished312members of this Committee, it is a true honor to appear before313this Committee today as President Trump's nominee to serve as314Under Secretary of Energy at the U.S. Department of Energy. I315want to thank President Trump for nominating me to this316important position. I am grateful for the confidence that he317and Energy Secretary Wright have placed in me.318    Before I begin my formal remarks, I would like to introduce319the most important part of my life--my family. Joining me today320is my wife, Catherine. In fact, today marks our 10th wedding321anniversary, and she is thrilled to be celebrating here in the322Senate hearing room.323    [Laughter.]324    The Chairman. You are under oath, sir.325    [Laughter.]326    Mr. Griffith. I am also proud to have our eight-year-old327son, Wells, here with us as well. Their unwavering love,328support, and patience have made this moment possible. I would329also like to recognize my mother, Donata, and my father,330Preston, who is courageously battling ALS, also known as Lou331Gehrig's disease, a horrible and progressive neurodegenerative332disease. Since I was a boy, his strength has inspired me every333day and does even more so today. Lastly, I am joined by many334dear friends in the audience, and I want to acknowledge my335brother and three sisters and their families. They are all336watching from home down in Alabama, probably texting me trying337to figure out how to get the link to work.338    [Laughter.]339    Mr. Griffith. But I wouldn't be here without their support.340    Like President Trump and Secretary Wright, I have a deep341passion for public service and an appreciation for the role342that energy plays in our daily lives. My first impressions343about energy came as a young boy at our family-owned full-344service gas station in Mobile, Alabama. My grandfather started345working there after returning from the Korean War and346eventually bought it. My father began working there when he was34713, and worked there until around 2020, when he was officially348diagnosed with ALS and retired. Growing up, I spent my summers349and holidays working alongside him pumping gas, changing tires,350and washing windows in the Alabama heat. It was there that I351first understood the real-world impact of energy--not in352theory, but in practice. I remember helping my dad change the353gas price sign and learning about OPEC before I knew what the354letters stood for. And when gas prices were high, I saw,355firsthand, customers having to choose between putting five or356ten dollars in the tank or buying groceries. When energy costs357were high, Americans felt it immediately. Energy wasn't just a358commodity, it was a lifeline.359    Above the three-bay garage doors at the station was a sign360that read: ``Service Is Our Business.'' That motto stuck with361me, and in many ways, it shaped my life's path. It's what362brought me to public service. Since leaving our family gas363station, I had the privilege of serving the American people in364multiple roles in the Federal Government. In President Trump's365first administration, I had the opportunity to work at the366Department of Energy in the Secretary's office and later as the367Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary for International Affairs.368I then served at the White House as a Special Assistant to the369President and Senior Director for Energy and Environment at the370National Security Council, and later at the U.S. Development371Finance Corporation. In each of these roles, I worked alongside372many career public servants, scientists, engineers, and373professionals who are among the best in government. If I am374fortunate enough to be confirmed, I look forward to returning375to work with them and to serve with the same spirit of376excellence and humility.377    I have seen firsthand the role that the Department of378Energy and its 17 National Labs play in securing America's379energy future--through research and innovation to unlocking our380vast natural resources and technologies to scientific381advancement. From fueling our economy to powering AI data382centers to securing our national defense, energy is383foundational to America's future. America must lead, not384follow, in this next era of energy transformation. If385confirmed, I will work every day to advance the Department's386mission efficiently and effectively and deliver on the387President's priorities, winning the AI arms race, lowering388energy costs for Americans, advancing U.S. leadership in389innovation, and ensuring Americans have access to affordable,390reliable, and secure energy.391    Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich, and members of the392Committee, thank you again for the opportunity to appear before393you. I look forward to your questions.394    [The prepared statement of Mr. Griffith follows:]395    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]396397    The Chairman. Thank you.398    Dr. Gil.399400          STATEMENT OF DR. DARIO GIL, NOMINATED TO BE401             UNDER SECRETARY OF ENERGY FOR SCIENCE402403    Dr. Gil. Thank you, Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich,404and Members of the Committee. It is an honor to be here, and I405want to thank President Trump and Secretary Wright for the406trust that they have placed in me with this nomination to serve407as the Under Secretary for Science at the Department of Energy.408If I have the honor of being confirmed, I look forward to409working with all the members of this Committee and to seek your410guidance.411    I would like to recognize the members of my family who have412joined me today. My lovely wife of 25 years, Amanda; my413daughters, Sofia and Elena; my parents-in-law, Steve and Heidi414Godsoe, who have traveled from Maine; my brother Roman, who has415done so from Spain, and many extended friends and colleagues.416    As you may tell from my accent, I am an immigrant. It is an417experience and an identity that has greatly shaped me, and it418will be the honor of my life to have the opportunity to serve419the United States, which has given me more than I could have420dreamed. I have been passionate about science and engineering421since I was a teenager, when I first came to the U.S. as an422exchange student from Spain. I became fascinated and ultimately423became an expert in nanotechnology, a world measured in424distances that are 100,000 times smaller than the width of a425human hair. As Feynman stated, it is a world that has ``plenty426of room at the bottom.'' And plenty indeed, as by the end of427this decade, we will be fabricating chips that will have one428trillion transistors, each engineered with atomic precision.429    During my grad-school years at MIT, I was captivated by the430beauty of quantum mechanics. It was a necessity to understand431the nanoworld, and it was then that I was first exposed to the432idea of quantum information. A little over a decade later, I433had the great privilege to work with my IBM Research team to434create, in May 2016, the world's first cloud-accessible quantum435computer. That seminal event, along with the 80 quantum436computers we have built since, were instrumental in creating437the nascent, yet vibrant, quantum computing industry. This438industry of the future is one that the U.S. must dominate, as439it has profound scientific, economic, and national security440implications. It is time to mobilize the nation's best teams to441achieve the final frontier of building an error-corrected442quantum supercomputer before the end of this decade.443    If confirmed, I look forward to working with this Committee444to ensure that America wins this great race. Which brings me to445the core of our current revolution in computing--AI. The field446is going through a renaissance, with a pace of progress unlike447anything I have witnessed in my 25-plus year career. Dario448Amodei, CEO of Anthropic, has evocatively referred to the449potential of AI as having ``a country of geniuses in a450datacenter.'' Discoveries that would have taken us decades will451become possible in years.452    The combination of inspiring missions, broad and deep453scientific expertise, singular infrastructure, and nation-scale454resources make the U.S. National Labs the world's greatest455platform of scientific discovery in the physical sciences. The456powerful aspect of this new era of accelerated discovery_457powered by what I like to summarize as the world of ``bits +458neurons + qubits''_has the potential to help the entire459science, national security, and energy portfolio of the460National Lab complex, much like secure, reliable, and461affordable energy can improve the lives of all our citizens and462accelerate the growth of the entire American economy. Imagine a463future in which fusion, the grand goal of building a star on464earth, becomes the first technology fully driven by the AI465revolution. Using the combined power of AI and supercomputers466to develop a system model to steer fusion innovation, we can467shave decades off development timelines. Imagine a portfolio of468similar grand challenges, from novel catalysts to new469fertilizers, and beyond. We can usher a new era of sustainable470abundance and American dynamism.471    If confirmed, I will bring to this role 22 years of private472industry experience, having served as director of one of the473world's largest and most influential corporate research474laboratories. I will bring my commitment to work across475sectors, having served on the President's Council of Advisors476on Science and Technology, as a member of the National Academy477of Engineering, and for the last five years, as a member of the478National Science Board, of which I am currently the Chairman.479And I hope that in your consideration of this nomination that I480will have the privilege to learn from and to work with all of481you.482    Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Heinrich, and members of the483Committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before the484Committee today, and I look forward to your questions.485    [The prepared statement of Dr. Gil follows:]486    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]487488    The Chairman. Thank you so much.489    We will now begin five-minute rounds, alternating between490Republicans and Democrats in order of seniority, as modified by491the earlybird rule. By the way, I really am glad that Catherine492is here on your tenth anniversary, and so grateful that she is493able to put on a happy face because still, a lot of people494wouldn't want to necessarily celebrate their tenth anniversary495this way. So Catherine, we will try to make it as pleasant as496possible. And we look forward to one day holding a nomination497hearing for Preston Wells Griffith IV, when he is nominated to498a position like this.499    Mr. Griffith, we will start with you. If you are confirmed500as Under Secretary of Energy, you will oversee the R&D that501goes into funding a lot of innovation related to our electric502power generation sector. Nuclear, coal, oil, natural gas,503geothermal, all these will play a critical role in meeting the504demand challenge that we are facing due to growth in AI,505looking specifically at dispatchable and baseload sources of506power. If confirmed, what role do you think the offices that507will be under your purview in that position should play in508meeting that challenge, and how important do you think509innovations, particularly in the field of nuclear and natural510gas might be to meeting demand growth?511    Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator, for your question, and512thank you for spending time with us in your office. I really513enjoyed our visit. That's the exciting thing about this514opportunity, if I am confirmed. You know, I have mentioned515growing up in a gas station as a boy_it almost tracks with the516history of the Department of Energy, where we went from energy-517scarce to energy-abundant. In the 70s, or even in the Manhattan518Project, we faced a lot of energy challenges, and now I think519we are hitting that next energy challenge with powering AI,520keeping energy affordable, reliable, and secure for all521Americans, and ensuring that we remain competitive.522    For me, I think, in this role, should I be confirmed, it523will be to leverage all the resources, the expertise, and the524funding across the program offices to deliver on the525President's agenda to accomplish the shared goals and ensure526that America remains at the top of the global energy systems527and unleashes that abundance here at home and also abroad.528Especially with nuclear and natural gas, we have seen the529benefits of that since the shale revolution. A lot of that530technology came out of the Department, but to continue to531double down, using the expertise of the great Department of532Energy engineers and scientists to leverage these energy533technologies and sources for America, and again, for our534partners and allies, especially with nuclear, and making sure535the Generation IV reactors and the next generation of reactors536come to market and we ensure that our supply chains are537abundant and secure, from uranium production, enrichment, and538fuel.539    The Chairman. Thank you.540    Dr. Gil, throughout your career in the private sector,541including and especially during your tenure at IBM, you have542undoubtedly become aware of the lengths to which China has gone543to steal intellectual property and technological advances in544one way or another. Given the cutting-edge research that is545conducted at U.S. national labs, which will be under your546supervision in this position, if you are confirmed, how do you547plan to ensure that these sensitive innovations are protected548from foreign espionage and from theft, especially from China?549    Dr. Gil. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the question, and550again, I greatly appreciated the time that you spent with us551prior to the hearing. This topic is, I know, one that you are552very passionate about, as are many members of the Committee. It553is of the utmost importance. There is no doubt that these554technologies in AI, quantum, and fusion, and so on, are some of555the most consequential technologies in the world, and we have556to do everything in our power to protect it. I am keenly aware557that theft of intellectual property--China has been a very bad558actor in this space. And I am very much committed to working559with you and all the members of the Committee to implement ways560and improvements with which we can protect our most sensitive561technology that we develop in the nation.562    The Chairman. Have you perceived there being lapses from563outside the Department? Are there things you have been able to564observe that cause you concern about China's ability to565infiltrate, spy, and steal some of that intellectual property?566    Dr. Gil. Mr. Chairman, yes, I have been aware, and567unfortunately, been not only sensitized but have had to deal568with consequences of, you know, dealing with theft from China569in the area of semiconductors, in the area of quantum, and so570on. Through my career, you know, we have been enormously aware571of the need to protect technology. I have done so in my role at572IBM, and if confirmed, I look forward to doing so, to learn573from all the good actions that are happening in the Department,574but I know in this area there is a lot more to be done, and I575look forward to working with you to achieve it.576    The Chairman. Great.577    My time is expired. So we will follow up more on that578later. We will turn it over to Senator Heinrich.579    In just a moment, I have to run to cast a vote in another580committee. Don't be alarmed, I will be right back.581    Senator Heinrich [presiding]. Thank you, Chairman.582    The strength of our national labs lies in the diversity of583their science and engineering programs. And even at nuclear584weapons facilities, like Los Alamos and Sandia, a key factor in585attracting and retaining top talent is the opportunity for586scientists to collaborate with leading experts across a wide587range of fields. I want to know if I have your commitments that588you will not use your positions to reduce the research589capabilities and staffing for open science at our DOE national590labs?591    We will start with you, Mr. Griffith and then go to Dr.592Gil.593    Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator, and thank you for your594time. I enjoyed visiting with you before this hearing.595    Senator Heinrich. Thank you.596    Mr. Griffith. You know, you nailed it. The Department and597the labs have some of the most talented scientists, engineers,598and employees in the entire Federal Government. Obviously, we599are not in the Department yet, but should we be confirmed, I am600committed to working with the Secretary and you and this601Committee to make sure that we deliver the efficient use of602government resources and maintain American leadership in603research innovation, largely driven by the employees or the604civil servants at the Department.605    Senator Heinrich. Dr. Gil.606    Dr. Gil. Senator, again, thank you. I really enjoyed the607conversation we had. And on this topic, I could not agree with608you more on the importance of the open science component in the609laboratory complex. So I will say two comments around that.610One, I was sensitized to the importance of this topic while611discussing with the Director of Sandia National Laboratory the612observation that while the open science element that is funded613under the Office of Science may be a small fraction of the614budget of Sandia National Lab, in his words, it was almost the615most important part. And the reason for that was because it616allows us to attract and retain the talent necessary to fulfill617the mission, even in the context of the nuclear weapons618laboratories. And that is something that I have keenly been619aware of throughout my career, that you have to allow620scientists an element of that flexibility to keep their621intellectual curiosity, to keep growing, to think of out-of-622the-box ideas.623    So you have my total commitment of the appreciation and the624importance of open science through the entire national625laboratory complex.626    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Dr. Gil.627    Mr. Griffith, not an easy one for you, I suspect, but I628will be curious what your answer is. You have sworn under oath629today that you will make yourself available to testify to630Congress, but when the House of Representatives subpoenaed you631to testify six years ago, you didn't comply with their632subpoena. You didn't appear before the House. So to be clear,633when you swore to appear, was your commitment to testify634unconditionally?635    Mr. Griffith. Yes, Senator, thank you for that question. As636you know, that subpoena was related to the President's637impeachment. The subpoena did not allow for White House counsel638to be present, and thus the Department of Justice Office of639Legal Counsel deemed it invalid and instructed us not to appear640because it did not protect executive privilege for the641President. So I am committed to following the law, showing up642before this Committee without subpoena, voluntarily, and643working with you and the members of this Committee to execute644the mission of the Department of Energy.645    Senator Heinrich. For both of you--the power to rescind646obligated funds rests with Congress. It doesn't rest with the647executive, the Department, or the Department of Government648Efficiency, whatever that is. Do you both agree that the power649to rescind obligated funds rests with the legislative branch?650    Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator.651    Obviously, Congress has the power of the purse. Should I be652confirmed, I will, first and foremost, follow the law on653executing the laws of this body in disbursing government funds,654making decisions around disbursement in the most efficient and655effective way possible while being a good steward of American656taxpayer dollars.657    Senator Heinrich. Dr. Gil.658    Dr. Gil. Thank you, Senator, for the question.659    I am absolutely committed to follow the law and follow660Congressional direction on appropriated funds.661    Senator Heinrich. Great.662    Mr. Griffith, would you agree that in order to keep energy663prices affordable for consumers, that we need an energy664strategy right now focused on rapidly expanding production from665basically all available sources, including from things like666renewables and storage?667    Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator.668    Absolutely, we need all electrons and we need them in a669fast rate to meet the growing demand from AI, to meet the670reshoring of American manufacturing, and to keep prices low for671American consumers, and I think it's imperative that we, as the672Department's history has shown, bring all those resources to673bear for all energy sources that are secure, reliable, and674affordable.675    Senator Heinrich. My time is expired.676    Senator Hyde-Smith.677    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you very much, and I just want to678congratulate all of you for being here today. These families679are so proud of you and it's so obvious. And I want to tell you680how much I appreciate your character and your trust and the681confidence we can certainly have in you to do everything you682are supposed to be doing, legally and binding, to this683Congress. I appreciate that.684    Dr. Gil, the United States has the opportunity to be a685leader in integrating new technologies, whether it's686traditional drilling, nuclear reactors, or hydrogen. These687innovations could help meet growing demands for high-tech688tools, such as artificial intelligence, that you have talked689about, that can be applied in virtually every sector of our690society, from energy production, to agriculture, to691manufacturing. During our meeting, you discussed that the692United States has the opportunity to be bolder and inspire new693generations. It is no secret that we are falling behind China694in nuclear and hydrogen technologies.695    So what do you see as the Department's biggest challenges696to fostering bolder innovations, and what steps need to be697taken for the United States to become more of a world leader in698energy and technology development?699    Dr. Gil. Well, thank you, Senator. Meeting with you was700such a great pleasure, and I really valued the conversation.701And you ask such an important question because we are, indeed,702in a great race in leading the energies of the future and the703science and technology portfolio of the future. So the stakes704could not be higher. The positive message that I want to send705is that we also have, within our nation, the capability to do706what it takes to succeed. But to do that, we have to be very707clear in our ambitions in energy, on making sure that we708unleash all forms of American energy, and to make sure that we709have a secure and reliable and affordable portfolio of energy710sources, including the ones that you listed.711    I think the science and technology domain, simply put--we712just have to succeed in winning the AI race, quantum, in713biotechnology, fusion technology. But I will leave you with714this thought--what we are going to witness in the next four or715five years are some of the most consequential advancements in716technology, not just in the last 100 years, but probably that717have ever been achieved. And you have my commitment to make718sure that we, if confirmed, that we are going to marshal every719resource that we have on working collaboratively with Wells and720Secretary Wright and the entire team to make sure we succeed in721this great race.722    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you so much.723    And Mr. Griffith, I am actually going to ask you the same724question on the challenges, but I want you to know how much I725appreciate our Mississippi connections, and the service that726you did our state that we are still benefiting from, and we are727very proud that we had the opportunity to have you then and we728are very proud of where you are now.729    So what are the challenges, do you think, that you are730facing based on that same line of questioning?731    Mr. Griffith. Yes, Senator, thank you for the question. It732was great visiting with you, and thanks for all you do for the733State of Mississippi. I enjoyed my time there, early in my734career, and for law school.735    I think, you know, we have a big energy gap to fill in the736future. Electricity demand is skyrocketing. We have to bring a737lot more electrons to the grid. We have to feed the rising738demand for AI, for the reshoring of manufacturing in the United739States, and keeping our prices low, as well as sharing that740abundance with our partners and allies. So I see this as, you741know, just like the Manhattan Project or when the Department of742Energy started with the Arab oil embargo. This is a pivotal743time for us to meet the challenges of energy--in the present744and the future. And with all the technologies and science that745have come out of the Department over the last 30 to 40 years,746we look forward to taking those to market and deploying them747commercially to fuel America's future and keep prices low and748execute the President's agenda.749    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you very much, and I certainly750enjoyed your stories about the gas station, because Mississippi751is a rural state, and especially with so much timber industry--752when you are filling up a 200-gallon tank because you are a log753truck about to go to harvest in the woods, that is such--it754makes such a difference, and the future is so bright with755people like you, and I certainly appreciate that.756    Both of you discussed with me that you viewed these roles757together as a team, and that is very evident today, the way you758are answering things. Should the Department continue partnering759with universities and private companies that are willing to760make investments in research and our energy and high-tech761future, and how do you see the continued partnerships762benefiting our country?763    Dr. Gil. Thank you, Senator, for that question.764    It's an indispensable strategy to succeed. The United765States spends about $850 billion a year in R&D--$600 billion of766that is in the private sector doing R&D. So we have to do767everything in our power to team, as you correctly pointed out,768and work collaboratively in ways that achieve the national769mission, and the university ecosystem has an indispensable role770for that, as does the private sector that conducts R&D.771    Senator Hyde-Smith. Did you want to address that at all,772Mr. Griffith?773    Mr. Griffith. So Mr. Gil and I, I think, hopefully will be774a good team, should we be confirmed. We look forward to working775together and executing our mission.776    Senator Hyde-Smith. So the team speaks as one.777    [Laughter.]778    Senator Hyde-Smith. We will go to Senator King.779    Senator Heinrich. So, what he said.780    [Laughter.]781    Senator Heinrich. Senator King.782    Senator King. Thank you very much, and thanks to our783witnesses. You are both going into critical jobs, and as you784mentioned, Dr. Gil, the next few years could be incredibly785important in terms of to the development of technology.786    One of the technologies I am most interested in is storage.787We are talking about development of the grid and stabilization788of the grid, and I hope that both of you will remain committed789to research and deployment of storage capacity on the grid,790because I think that is part of the solution. Do you agree, Dr.791Gil?792    Dr. Gil. Thank you, Senator, for the question.793    Let me also just say that, you know, since you are794representing Maine, that I have had a long connection with795Maine. My wife and Steve and Heidi Godsoe are here from Maine.796So I have been going for many decades.797    Senator King. Wonderful.798    Dr. Gil. So it's a pleasure.799    Senator King. Tell her to tell her in-laws they saw me800working.801    [Laughter.]802    Dr. Gil. Will do so.803    Senator King. Thank you.804    Dr. Gil. Will do so.805    And yes, I completely agree on the importance of storage806technology. It's an essential part, not only already, you know,807in present electricity systems, but also in the future. I will808also point out that within the science portfolio of the809Department, we also have a lot of opportunity to accelerate the810opportunity for discovery of novel and more safe and efficient811storage technologies. So the commitment is two-fold--both on812the recognition of the importance that storage plays in our813energy system, but also that we have to do a lot of discovery814to make sure that we can take, you know, a very significant815leap forward, which we can do by harnessing these capabilities816on AI and in the future of quantum computing as well.817    Senator King. Thank you.818    Mr. Griffith, I presume you believe that storage is part of819all of the above?820    Mr. Griffith. Yes, Senator, absolutely. Thank you for your821question. It's the holy grail. We need all energy sources,822technology, and we need to bring them all to bear to meet this823growing demand.824    Senator King. Thank you.825    Mr. Griffith, I want to talk about three offices in the826Department of Energy. The elephant in the room here is staffing827cuts, and I just worry about these particular offices because828of the important role they play. First is the Grid Deployment829Office. As you have already pointed out, we are headed into a830time of dramatically increased electricity demand, but you can831have all the production in the world, but if you don't have the832grid capacity, it isn't going get to where it needs to go. So I833hope that you look on the Grid Deployment Office as an834important function of the Department of Energy in terms of the835research necessary, but also just the support of the technology836throughout the country.837    Is that a fair statement?838    Mr. Griffith. Yes, Senator, I worked in the Department in839President Trump's first Administration, and the work that the840Department does on grid reliability and deployment is very841important, and especially will be in the years ahead. And842obviously, I am not in the building presently, I haven't been843confirmed, but should I be confirmed, I look forward to844learning more about all the activity in bringing that to bear.845    Senator King. And part of that activity and part of that846research is what we call GETs--grid enhancement technologies. I847hope that is part of the research, because we don't have to848build all new towers. We can reconductor and use that849technology.850    Office of Cybersecurity, Energy Security, and Emergency851Response--I have been working for four or five years on cyber,852and our grid is a critical infrastructure and is also under853attack. I have a friend in the utility industry who tells me854that his company--his electric company--is attacked three855million times a day in cyber. So tell me about your thoughts856about what they call CESER.857    Mr. Griffith. Yes, sir. Thank you, Senator. CESER is a very858important tool for the Department and for industry and its859stakeholders to prevent against the threat from state and non-860state actors, but also weather events and other vulnerabilities861to the grid. I think the mission is important, and should I be862confirmed, I look forward to working with that and prioritizing863the mission of CESER to make sure that America's grids are864protected, secure, and reliable.865    Senator King. I think that is an absolutely critical866mission. Thank you.867    And then, the final office is the Office of Clean Energy868Demonstrations, and this is required by law--Section 41201 of869the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law--and I think you have870testified that your intention is to follow the law. So I hope871that includes maintaining the vital programs under this Office872of Clean Energy Demonstration.873    Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator.874    I am absolutely committed to following the law, first and875foremost. Again, I am not in the building, not working at the876Department yet, but I look forward to--I have read the reports877about OCED and the work that it's doing, but I look forward to878learning more and making sure we are effectively and879efficiently deploying those resources.880    Senator King. Well, I get a weekly report on energy costs,881which include electricity costs, from a variety of sources. I882would point out that the cheapest forms of energy today are883solar and onshore wind, and they can also be deployed the884fastest. If you wanted to build a gas turbine plant, a gas885generation plant today, it would be five years before you could886even get a turbine because of the backlog. So I hope that, as I887say, all of the above includes renewables. Does it?888    Mr. Griffith. Senator, yes. For me, it includes all energy889sources and technologies that are secure, reliable, and890affordable. And we need them all because we need more891electrons. Electrons don't know how they are generated. So----892    Senator King. Thank you. Thank you very much.893Congratulations on your nomination, gentlemen.894    The Chairman [presiding]. Senator Justice.895    Senator Justice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.896    Let me just say just this, you know, to all of you, and897especially to this little fellow, you know, and he is just as898beautiful as ever, as anybody could ever be, but we have got a899lot at stake, and at the end of the day, we have got him at900stake. We have got all of you at stake, but I think your roles901are going to be so unbelievable and so challenging and so902wonderful going forward, it will be off the chart. It is903important beyond belief.904    Now, if I could just tell you just this--I am from West905Virginia, and we, forevermore, have been an energy state. And906we know energy, you know, like Bo Jackson, you know, would have907said--Bo knows. Well, I know, as far as energy, and I love the908fact that both of you seem to be stuck on ``on.'' I love that909too, because enthusiasm is contagious. And so, I congratulate910you on lots and lots and lots of different levels.911    We all know just one thing that is so simple, and that is912just this_we are going to spin around in a year and a half from913today, maybe as far as three years from today, and we are going914to have a demand for electricity that is double--double what it915is today. What are we going to do? What are we going to do? At916that point in time are we going to decide? Are we really going917to decide between homes and industry? Are we going to combat918one against the other, because we can't do them both.919    Oh, my gosh.920    [The Senator's bulldog arrives. Laughter ensues.]921    Senator Justice. Babydog is here. Okay, well, I will hold922Babydog in just one second. Let me halfway finish now. That923just threw me way off base. Baby, calm down. Okay, all right,924forget that.925    No, let me just say just this--I embraced all the energy926forms and I would continue to do exactly just that. Now, just927stay with me just one second. If it is a level playing field928for all energy forms, we cannot subsidize certain things and929disadvantage other things, because we are going to awaken to a930bad day. I hope to goodness that you will always do just this,931you will always know how hard our coal miners have worked, and932coal should play a really important role. So with all that933being said, let me just ask a couple of questions real quick.934    The first question is just this_please tell me your935thoughts, because the President did something the other day936that was off the chart. You see, what he did the other day that937I think was off the chart was just this: My mom and dad loved938the coal business and loved all the people. That's what they939loved--the people that worked every single day. Now, just940imagine this, if you are a coal miner and you got up early in941the morning every day, you went to work, you took a lot of risk942by going to work. In many seams in West Virginia, you were in943coal all day long that you couldn't possibly stand up in, you944could only sit up in. With that you provided so much either945power or metallurgical coal, which goes to make steel that946absolutely fueled us in our world wars, and on, and on, and on.947And every day people kicked you. Every single day people said,948``We don't like coal. We don't like what you are doing,''949absolutely over, and over, and over. My mom and dad would have950had big tears running down their face the other day when951President Trump stood up for them_for those people_because952honest-to-goodness, they have given us so much, it's off the953chart.954    So tell me this: where does coal play that role?955    Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator, for your question.956    I think all energy sources and technologies are vitally957important for our energy present and future, and coal,958especially, in our past and future as well. But a lot of the959gains we have had that got us to the moment here to have all960this--to unleash the abundance of all energy sources and961technologies was through coal. And I think it's got an962important future, just like all the other resources that we963have in the United States, and technologies that have been964developed here as well.965    Senator Justice. Well, thank you so much.966    And before we go any further, I am going to hold Babydog967here.968    [Laughter.]969    Senator Justice. And Baby, you can't be drinking, and then970let me--all right. Now, let me just say, just this--this little971rascal has done something that I think is really important to972all of us, all of us on this Committee_all of you, all of us in973these wonderful, wonderful buildings that are all across this974wonderful city. She humanizes us. She makes us absolutely get975off our pedestals. Absolutely, she makes us know that just976this--here is her message: She makes you smile. I can see it977all over the place right now. But you know what else she does?978She loves everybody. She truly does. I found this in COVID. I979didn't intend in any way to be hauling a bulldog around. No way980on earth. We had never owned a bulldog before. She is not981supposed to like everybody, but she does.982    And with that being said, how can a message be any better?983It really and truly_if we have made others smile and we loved984everybody, it would be one hell of a lot better world. That's985all there is to it.986    So she would say just this--if you are rich or poor, or a987kid or an adult, or God forbid, a Republican or a Democrat, she988still loves you. And so, let's just celebrate just this little989thing as she humanizes all of us, and Chairman, thank you so990much and Ranking Member, thank you for letting her come. Okay,991now, we are out of here because she is heavy.992    [Laughter.]993    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Justice. Babydog's994testimony will be admitted into the record without objection.995    [Laughter.]996    The Chairman. Senator Cortez Masto.997    Senator Cortez Masto. Yes, I did notice Babydog got five998minutes as well. I appreciate that.999    Senator Justice. There you go.1000    Senator Cortez Masto. Let me say congratulations on your1001nominations. Welcome to your families. What an incredible day.1002I appreciate your willingness to serve. Thank you for that.1003    Mr. Griffith, let me start with you. Four years ago, this1004body_and specifically, this Committee, came together in a1005bipartisan way to pass legislation that helps create jobs to1006solidify our energy sector and strengthen our states, tribes,1007and local communities. I have seen_and I think my colleagues1008have all seen_the value of these investments in critical1009sectors for national securities. I know in my state I have seen1010it in the battery manufacturing and in critical mineral1011extraction that we are focused on in Nevada. But now, there are1012concerns that I see in public, hearing about Elon Musk and1013DOGE, the new leadership at Energy, what is happening. I am1014hearing from my state, some of the funding that we fought for1015in a bipartisan way is not getting to where it needs to go for1016these energy projects.1017    So, if confirmed, what is your plan to implement the1018Bipartisan Infrastructure and Energy programs that were1019actually enacted by Congress as part of the Bipartisan1020Infrastructure Law?1021    Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator.1022    If confirmed--I am obviously not in the building_so I don't1023know, I have just read the same reports, I guess, in the press.1024I think, you know, the President's rein on being efficient_1025running government more efficiently and being a good steward of1026taxpayer dollars--I think, should I be confirmed, I would1027prioritize being briefed on this. This is, obviously, and other1028program offices on the spending, the situation there, and1029making sure that we deploy those resources in a way that is in1030the best stewardship of American taxpayer dollars while also1031executing at the same time, which I believe we can do the1032Department's mission in bringing these new projects online and1033bringing this electricity and power and energy back to unleash1034American energy dominance and fulfill the President's1035priorities.1036    Senator Cortez Masto. So do you commit to upholding the1037implementation of awards that were funded or contractually1038obligated in recent years under the Bipartisan Infrastructure1039Law?1040    Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator. I am fully committed,1041first and foremost, to following the law. So should I be1042confirmed, I would prioritize understanding the different1043projects, and the details, and the specifics, and working with1044you and this Committee to alleviate any concerns or address any1045questions that you may have.1046    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.1047    Dr. Gil, your written testimony noted that the U.S. must1048dominate in quantum computing--I agree with you--in order to1049uncover profound scientific, economic, and national security1050implications. In your professional opinion, how can the U.S.1051further solidify itself in both the discovery and1052commercialization of new technologies?1053    Dr. Gil. Senator, thank you so much for the question.1054    We have to succeed on that effort, so let me touch on the1055quantum computing effort, for example. This is a most1056extraordinary time and the most exciting time in computing,1057probably since the 1940s. You know, during that decade the1058transistor was invented. The first programmable computers were1059invented. Seminal advances in the theory of information1060processing were developed. And we witnessed the implication of1061that decade for decades to come.1062    We are in a similar moment right now. And what it requires1063is that not only we support the basic science and research in1064all of those fields, but that we seek and we demand of1065ourselves the objective of building and leading a capability1066for the nation that we did not have before. And that is what I1067was alluding to in my testimony, that it is time to build a1068quantum-centric supercomputer. It is time to elevate the1069capability of AI to advance scientific discovery and do problem1070solving in ways we couldn't do. It is time now, in fusion, to1071shave off decades of development time cycles. And if we do all1072of that together, as a team, if we achieve that objective, I1073think we will have a portfolio of technologies in the nation1074that would serve us for decades to come, and frankly, even the1075whole world, our allies, and our partners on that.1076    On the downside, if we do not succeed on those, and we have1077rival nations like China get ahead of us on that, the1078consequences will be terrible. So we have no choice but to1079succeed, and you have my full commitment to work with all of1080you to make sure we do.1081    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.1082    I will submit the rest of my questions for the record.1083Again, congratulations on your nominations.1084    Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator.1085    The Chairman. Senator Murkowski.1086    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1087    Gentlemen, thank you for being here this morning. I1088appreciated our conversations last week. And Mr. Chairman, I1089just want to note for the record, I am disappointed that we are1090not going to have the opportunity to advance Kathleen Sgamma1091for the Congress. Looking at her background and working with1092her over the years on the Committee, she is, I think, very well1093qualified, and we were really counting on her to be able to1094unlock some of the things that had been stalled out in the1095previous Administration, but we are not going to have that1096opportunity, but we do with the two of you to advance to the1097Department of Energy.1098    I mentioned in our discussion the situation with Cook Inlet1099gas and the looming shortage that we are facing and the desire1100to move forward, as the President has expressed as well, to1101figure out a way to move Alaska's gas. So I just want you to1102nod your head accordingly and let the record reflect that we1103are all on board in helping to advance Alaska's opportunities1104there, pursuant to that executive order.1105    I do want to reinforce what Senator Cortez Masto just asked1106you, Mr. Griffith, with regards to the funding awarded through1107grants and programs that has already been obligated. Know that1108this is a bipartisan request to make sure that we follow1109through with those priorities. Again, we passed the law--the1110Bipartisan Infrastructure Act is law, and I think about the1111many, many benefits that we have seen through energy innovation1112and the projects that have really made a difference on the1113ground. So you have indicated that you intend to follow that1114law, but I would hope that you could look expeditiously at how1115we might be able to release those funds that have already been1116obligated.1117    I also raised an issue with you in my meeting, and this1118relates to the Office of Indian Energy. As you know, I am1119Chairman of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, and we had1120really looked to the Office of Indian Energy as an area where1121we could make some significant advancements in places where we1122just have met all kinds of barriers that were unnecessary.1123Unfortunately, that program didn't do as much as we had hoped1124in the last Administration, as the focus was almost entirely on1125solar projects, but as much as solar might help us in Alaska,1126there are also so many other pressing needs. Right now, most of1127my communities in the rural areas are powered by diesel1128generation. They don't necessarily want to be, but that's our1129reality, but we have bulk fuel storage issues that are1130heartbreaking in understanding how we can address some of the1131infrastructure vulnerabilities. The Tribal Energy Financing1132Program closed its first tribal loan guarantee this past1133September--the first one. It took them as many years as they1134have. So I would just ask both of you, again, to confirm here1135before the Committee that you will work to identify some1136opportunities to better leverage the resources that are within1137the office to make real progress, not just to stand up an1138office and say it exists and then tell the tribes go out and1139take a look at this, but have no deliverable. So we just ask1140for your support on that.1141    Mr. Griffith. Yes, thank you, Senator. It was very nice1142spending time with you prior to the hearing last week. I can1143commit, if confirmed, I will work--will prioritize both getting1144up to speed on the OCED and the spending and being responsive1145to this Committee and yourself, Senator, but also working with1146the office, obviously, prioritizing the Office of Indian1147Energy, which has played a pivotal role for the--or can play a1148pivotal role for 574 tribes and Native American tribes in1149America and the Alaska Natives, to make sure that we are1150executing on the mission and delivering results to support the1151Alaska Natives.1152    Senator Murkowski. Great.1153    And our American Indians around the country.1154    Mr. Griffith. Absolutely, absolutely, thank you, Senator.1155    Senator Murkowski. Yes, thank you for that.1156    Dr. Gil.1157    Dr. Gil. Thank you, Senator. Yes, following the same lines,1158one of the things that was very vivid in the meetings that we1159had with you is just the unique opportunities that Alaska1160brings, like the unique environment and how that can be also a1161testbed to not only solve problems in the context of Alaska,1162but also to inspire us to solve problems for the rest of the1163nation and beyond. So that was very clear, and yes, you have my1164commitment to work with you and your staff to make sure we1165prioritize those areas.1166    Senator Murkowski. Good. Well, know that we are working1167already on developing an itinerary for the two of you when you1168come to Alaska.1169    Dr. Gil. That's right.1170    Senator Murkowski. I was just reading a great article on my1171walk in this morning about our little fishing community of1172Cordova that is an energy innovator with hydro and battery1173storage, and the national labs already have it on its map. And1174so, an opportunity for you to see that as well as our1175extraordinary geothermal potential, in addition to all the1176other things that you know. So look forward to that. And I am1177excited about your confirmation here.1178    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1179    The Chairman. Senator Hickenlooper.1180    Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you both1181for your public service so far and your intention to continue1182that.1183    Mr. Griffith, talk a little bit about our grid, because I1184look at AI and the projected growth of the need for1185electricity--almost exponential. And we have looked at the Grid1186Deployment Office, the Loan Programs Office, and Transmission1187Facilitation Program as helping us meet that demand. What are1188your thoughts on probably the most important priorities we can1189take to really make sure we have the grid that we need in time1190for when we need it?1191    Mr. Griffith. Yes, sir. Thank you, Senator.1192    You know, with this growing demand, that skyrocketing1193demand as a result of the AI demand coming on and reshoring of1194manufacturing, we have to bring up our energy generation and1195production, but it's not going to do us any good if we don't1196have a secure, modern, and strong grid. And I think there are a1197lot of tools at the Department that we need to, in tandem with1198increasing production and generation, use that this Committee1199has and this Congress has passed into law to do just that--1200strengthen, modernize, and secure our grid for our energy1201future.1202    Senator Hickenlooper. I appreciate that, and I think it's1203going to have to be all-hands-on-deck to make sure we pull that1204out.1205    Obviously, there is a large office of the National1206Renewable Energy Laboratory in Colorado that we are, I think,1207justifiably proud of, but with all the budget cuts, do you1208think we'll be able to protect, you know, the lion's share of1209the budget, the work that is being done out there, because so1210much of it is in midstream? We are getting there, but we are1211not quite there yet.1212    Mr. Griffith. Yes, sir, and a lot to be proud of with NREL.1213It's an important lab that is doing cutting-edge research, and1214I think that we can be responsible stewards of taxpayer dollars1215and run government effectively and efficiently, and if1216confirmed, to continue to execute on the mission that NREL has1217delivered on all these years.1218    Senator Hickenlooper. Great. I appreciate that.1219    And Dr. Gil, I could ask you the same thing, except I am1220more familiar with your answers. I did want to ask you a little1221bit--in 2024, at a National Science Board meeting, you talked1222about the need to get more young people engaged in STEM. I have1223a son who is just graduating with an electrical engineering1224degree and a minor in computer science, but there are not very1225many of his friends coming along for that ride. What are some1226of your ideas that you could put in place or begin to1227prioritize to get more young people at an earlier age engaged1228in STEM?1229    Dr. Gil. Thank you, Senator, for that question.1230    I will start also by highlighting my oldest daughter,1231Sofia, who is here, just graduating in computer science this1232spring from Cornell. So like, you know, we are trying to do it1233in the family to keep that going.1234    Senator Hickenlooper. Ted is out at Stanford. They are a1235long way apart, but I am sure there is a place to meet in the1236middle.1237    Dr. Gil. Yes. Let me address that point. Actually, if you1238were to ask me what are the areas that you are most concerned1239with in the competitiveness of the nation, I would say it's1240this area. And you know, in some ways, the National Science1241Board, we have been discussing a lot as a board the need for an1242NDEA 2.0, like a National Defense Education Act 2.0, and you1243know, there was a seminal moment in the 1950s where there was a1244need to mobilize all the resources of the country to educate1245teachers, to support teachers, to foment Americans entering1246into STEM, and at the time, foreign languages and so on. And we1247really believe that the moment has come to do something1248equivalent right now. And if you look at scores in math, for1249example, for eighth grade, what little progress we have made as1250a nation, we have reversed 20 years of progress after the1251pandemic.1252    When you look at STEM graduation rates in China, as an1253example, compared to what we do, we have a lot to be concerned1254about. So I just want to highlight that, you know, if you were1255to ask me what is the single most important thing that we1256should focus on is to do exactly that. And I would love to work1257with you and with Members of Congress to really take serious1258action, that requires local, state, and federal coordination to1259achieve.1260    Senator Hickenlooper. Great. I assume, Mr. Griffith, you1261agree with that as well? I mean, that's the need and that is1262pretty clear.1263    Mr. Griffith. Absolutely. I am just a history major with a1264law degree but my son is a big math--99th percentile in math.1265So hopefully, he will be following in the STEM, in the1266mechanical engineering, like your son.1267    Senator Hickenlooper. Well, it's hard work, but I think the1268reward is out there, and actually, my son is looking at1269getting_as he begins working_getting a master's in history as1270well. So they do go well together.1271    Let me ask you also about geothermal energy, which I share1272with Secretary Wright, the importance and the potential of1273geothermal. How do you think DOE can support this next1274generation, you know, these geothermal technologies that are1275really just rolling out so rapidly?1276    Mr. Griffith. Yes, sir, thank you, Senator.1277    Yes, I share your enthusiasm and Secretary Wright's1278enthusiasm around geothermal. It's at a pivotal moment. I think1279a lot of the techniques and research that came out of the1280Department of Energy in support of the oil and gas industry can1281also be applied. And I think it has a promising future, and I1282look forward to, if confirmed, getting in the building and1283working to unleash all the tools and expertise at the1284Department to bring that to bear.1285    Senator Hickenlooper. Great, I appreciate that.1286    I think I am out of time--way out of time--but thank you1287both, again. I yield back to the Chair.1288    The Chairman. Thank you.1289    Senator Cantwell.1290    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.1291    Dr. Gil, I represent Bill Nye, the Science Guy, but I am1292more than happy to say ``Dr. Gil, the DOE Science Guy,'' and1293make sure that we keep our investments. One of those1294investments is in the area of AI and quantum. Both the Pacific1295Northwest Lab and Microsoft are using quantum computing and AI1296high-performance for all sorts of different issues already--1297battery research, computer approaches, simulating turbulence,1298superconductors. So do you support the National Quantum1299Initiative Reauthorization, and if confirmed, would you work1300with my staff and members of this Committee to advance it?1301    Dr. Gil. Senator, thank you for your question and for your1302support on this topic for so many years. I really appreciate1303your leadership on that. You are not going to find a more1304enthusiastic person on supporting the National Quantum1305Initiative, and my challenge would be how do we become even1306bolder on what we achieve on that. And the way I frame that1307thinking is not only do we need to support the centers that the1308National Quantum Initiative created and the fundamental1309science, but we must now combine that aspiration with1310delivering a capability for the nation.1311    So just like in the past, we built CPU-centric1312supercomputers, like recently, we built GPU-centric1313supercomputers. We have to build a quantum-centric1314supercomputer. And that will mobilize and activate the National1315Quantum Initiative Centers toward a goal, and we have to1316deliver on that goal. So I am a huge supporter of that effort.1317    Senator Cantwell. So that's about testbedding?1318    Dr. Gil. Testbedding is an element, but it's also to use1319all of those things, the scientific research, the testbeds, but1320to give it a goal is--build a capability with this performance1321at this cost, just like when we would build in the past, El1322Capitan, or any other supercomputers. There is a definitive1323timeline and definitive set of dollars to deliver a capability1324that leads the world. I think we need to do the same thing in1325quantum.1326    Senator Cantwell. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that1327answer.1328    Mr. Griffith, obviously, I am a big supporter of BPA and1329what it delivers in cost-based power. I think we need to get1330BPA more support, not less. They have committed to $5 billion1331in grid upgrades using borrowing authority this Committee1332approved as part of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Act. I want1333to submit an article for the record written by two former BPA1334leaders, Randy Hardy and Steve Wright, and I want to quote_they1335say, ``we can say with confidence that the level of risk now1336with the existing workforce reductions is unacceptable, and at1337some point, further reductions would make outages practically1338inevitable.''1339    [The article referred to follows:]1340    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]13411342    Senator Cantwell. So that concerns me when two former BPA1343administrators make those kinds of statements. I appreciate1344that DOGE has already allowed the BPA to rehire some of those1345probationary employees, but I want to ask you, do you believe1346BPA's workforce should be exempt from the current hiring freeze1347and future forced reductions?1348    Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator, for your question.1349    I obviously have not been confirmed and don't know--I have1350read similar reports and I don't think I saw that one that you1351submitted for the record, but should I be confirmed, I look1352forward to getting up to speed, prioritizing it. I worked in1353the last Trump Administration, the first one, and understand1354the important role that BPA and the Power Marketing1355Administrations_other PMAs_have in delivering affordable,1356reliable energy from our hydroelectric resources, and I am1357committed to working with you and your office and this1358Committee to do that, should I be confirmed.1359    Senator Cantwell. Do you commit to articulate BPA's safety1360and reliability role when considering any RIF proposals?1361    Mr. Griffith. Senator, again, I don't know exactly what is1362happening in the Department, or any discussions, but I will1363prioritize working with the Secretary, Deputy Secretary, and1364the rest of the team on this issue, if confirmed, to----1365    Senator Cantwell. I am just asking you whether you will1366erase safety and reliability roles. That is a pretty easy----1367    Mr. Griffith. Oh, safety and reliability are obviously very1368important to the grid at BPA and all of the utilities and PMAs,1369and I think we will continue to prioritize the reliability, the1370security, and the resilience of our grid, including at the1371PMAs.1372    Senator Cantwell. Do you commit to oppose any proposal to1373auction off PMA assets, including those owned by BPA?1374    Mr. Griffith. Sorry, could you repeat the question?1375    Senator Cantwell. Yes.1376    Do you commit to oppose any proposals to auction off PMA1377assets, including those owned by BPA?1378    Mr. Griffith. Senator, I think BPA is a very important1379piece of the Department and plays an important role. I am not1380aware of any discussions or conversations about selling it off,1381but I think we--so, I really can't commit.1382    Senator Cantwell. I think if Senator Risch were here, he1383would be backing me up at this moment, and he'd be encouraging1384you to say that you don't believe in selling off BPA, but----1385    Mr. Griffith. I don't know what--if there is--not being1386confirmed, I don't know any conversations that are happening in1387the building. I wouldn't see--it's not something that I would1388be a proponent of.1389    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.1390    Mr. Griffith. Yes.1391    Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1392    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Cantwell.1393    I want to thank our witnesses for their testimony today. We1394sometimes have a chance for a second round. We don't have that1395today. We have votes being called. So any additional questions1396will be submitted in writing for the record.1397    Questions for the record for the hearing are due by 6:001398p.m. today. The record of the hearing will remain open for1399statements until 6:00 p.m. on Thursday, April 17.1400    The meeting is adjourned.1401    [Whereupon, at 11:12 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]14021403                      APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED14041405                              ----------14061407[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]14081409                                 [all]