Hearings to examine perspectives from the field, focusing on conservation.

1[Senate Hearing 119-78]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                                 ______56                                                         S. Hrg. 119-7878                      PERSPECTIVES FROM THE FIELD,9                          PART 4: CONSERVATION1011=======================================================================1213                                HEARING1415                               before the1617                       COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE,18                        NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY1920                          UNITED STATES SENATE2122                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2324                             FIRST SESSION2526                               __________2728                              May 13, 20252930                               __________3132                       Printed for the use of the33           Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry3435      GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT3637                  Available on http://www.govinfo.gov/3839                         ______4041             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE42 60-405 PDF          WASHINGTON : 20254344           COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY4546                    JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas, Chairman47MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky            AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota48JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota            MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado49JONI ERNST, Iowa                     TINA SMITH, Minnesota50CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois51ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas               CORY BOOKER, New Jersey52TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama            BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico53JAMES C. JUSTICE, West Virginia      RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia54CHARLES GRASSLEY, Iowa               PETER WELCH, Vermont55JOHN THUNE, South Dakota             JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania56DEB FISCHER, Nebraska                ADAM SCHIFF, California57JERRY MORAN, Kansas                  ELISSA SLOTKIN, Michigan5859               Fitzhugh Elder IV, Majority Staff Director60                    Jessica L. Williams, Chief Clerk61                Lauren Santabar, Minority Staff Director62                 Chu-Yuan Hwang, Minority Chief Counsel63                            C O N T E N T S6465                              ----------6667                         Tuesday, May 13, 20256869                                                                   Page7071Hearing:7273Perspectives From the Field, Part 4: Conservation................     17475                              ----------7677                    STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS7879Boozman, Hon. John, U.S. Senator from the State of Arkansas......     180Klobuchar, Hon. Amy, U.S. Senator from the State of Minnesota....     28182                               WITNESSES8384Blair, Gary, President, National Association of Conservation85  Districts, Starkville, MS......................................     686Doyle, Brad, Board Member and Producer, Arkansas Farm Bureau,87  Weiner, AR.....................................................     788Tjeerdsma, Lynn, Member, Board of Directors, Pheasants Forever89  and Quail Forever, Platte, SD..................................     990Ellis, Chad, Chief Executive Officer, Texas Agricultural Land91  Trust, San Antonio, TX.........................................    1092Dwyer, Megan, Director of Conservation and Nutrient Stewardship,93  Illinois Corn Growers Association, Coal Valley, IL.............    1294                              ----------9596                                APPENDIX9798Prepared Statements:99    Blair, Gary..................................................    30100    Doyle, Brad..................................................    35101    Tjeerdsma, Lynn..............................................    38102    Ellis, Chad..................................................    48103    Dwyer, Megan.................................................    51104105Question and Answer:106Blair, Gary:107    Written response to questions from Hon. John Hoeven..........    60108    Written response to questions from Hon. Tommy Tuberville.....    61109    Written response to questions from Hon. Raphael Warnock......    62110    Written response to questions from Hon. Peter Welch..........    64111    Written response to questions from Hon. Adam Schiff..........    64112Doyle, Brad:113    Written response to questions from Hon. Tommy Tuberville.....    68114Tjeerdsma, Lynn:115    Written response to questions from Hon. Michael Bennet.......    70116    Written response to questions from Hon. Raphael Warnock......    71117Ellis, Chad:118    Written response to questions from Hon. John Hoeven..........    73119Dwyer, Megan:120    Written response to questions from Hon. Raphael Warnock......    74121    Written response to questions from Hon. Peter Welch..........    75122    Written response to questions from Hon. Adam Schiff..........    76123124                      PERSPECTIVES FROM THE FIELD,125                          PART 4: CONSERVATION126127                              ----------128129                         TUESDAY, MAY 13, 2025130131                                        U.S. Senate132          Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry133                                                    Washington, DC.134    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:03 p.m., in135Room 328A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. John Boozman,136Chairman of the Committee, presiding.137    Present: Senators Boozman [presiding], Hoeven, Ernst, Hyde-138Smith, Marshall, Tuberville, Justice, Thune, Moran, Klobuchar,139Bennet, Durbin, Warnock, Welch, and Slotkin.140141   STATEMENT OF HON. BOOZMAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF142 ARKANSAS, CHAIRMAN, U.S. COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION,143                          AND FORESTRY144145    Chairman Boozman. Good afternoon and welcome. It is my146privilege to call this hearing to order to discuss the147importance of conservation to our Nation's producers. I would148like to thank our witnesses for taking time away from your149families and your work responsibilities to share your expertise150with our Committee today.151    When it comes to conservation, farmers and ranchers are at152the forefront of this effort because their livelihoods depend153on the health and sustainability of their lands. American154producers' commitment to conservation while producing the food,155fiber, and fuel our Nation needs benefits all Americans by156providing clean water, clean air, healthy soils, and abundant157wildlife habitat. Through reauthorization of the farm bill,158Congress can play a role in supporting this commitment by159improving the conservation programs implemented by USDA and160investing in these initiatives.161    The conservation needs of agriculture are diverse and162unique to each producer and operation, and we must ensure that163the farm bill supports the wide range of needs. Farm bill164conservation programs are successful because they are locally165led, voluntary, and incentive-driven, and this must continue in166the next farm bill. We must not tie the hands of our producers167by requiring the implementation of certain conservation168practices in order to be eligible for other incentives like169crop insurance.170    The heavy hand of government does not know better than the171individual producer regarding what resource concerns they need172to address locally. Just looking at the producers here before173us, we know that the needs of rice producers in the Arkansas174Delta are not the same as what corn producers in Illinois or175ranchers in Texas need. The Senate Republican framework176released last year highlighted many of these priorities and the177need for this flexibility.178    The framework made commonsense improvements to the179conservation programs in the farm bill by streamlining their180implementation and moving more decision-making to the states181and local level. These improvements will save time and money182for both producers and USDA. It has also supported the183technical assistance that producers need to help implement and184design conservation on their operation and embraced innovation185through precision agriculture and the support of new186conservation practices.187    Finally, the framework also included the reinvestment of188the unspent Inflation Reduction Act funds into existing189conservation programs to ensure producers have access to these190programs for generations to come.191    Ranking Member Klobuchar has always been a strong champion192of conservation programs at USDA. I look forward to working193together to craft a strong Conservation Title while we work to194pass a bipartisan farm bill this year. Our producers need195certainty, not another one-year extension of the 2018 Farm196Bill. I am confident the testimony provided by our witnesses197today will prove invaluable as we write the farm bill, and I198thank you again for your participation today.199    Senator Klobuchar.200201  STATEMENT OF HON. KLOBUCHAR, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF202                           MINNESOTA203204    Senator Klobuchar. Well, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman205for holding this hearing today. Thank you to our witnesses who206have come to share their perspectives. I have a lot of respect207for them.208    I will say that as we are working on this important buildup209to what I hope will be a bipartisan farm bill, on the other210side of the Capitol we have some cuts proposed to food211assistance, well near $300 billion, that could make it very212difficult to do a farm bill. I continue to believe in the work213of this Committee, and I hope that we will find a way through214this.215    I strongly support our work that we have done together on216improvements to conservation. Conservation programs and their217many supporters are a critical part of the broad bipartisan218coalition needed for a farm bill. USDA voluntary conservation219programs--and I emphasize voluntary--are open to producers220across the country, big and small operations, row crop,221livestock, and specialty crop farms. They assist farmers,222ranchers, sportsmen, and many others to improve soil health,223water quality, and wildlife habitat. I have long championed224these conservation programs and have seen how they can make225farms more profitable and resilient while supporting the226communities around them, wildlife hunters and fishers in my227home State of Minnesota.228    I have also led efforts to improve conservation programs,229including with Leader Thune in the last farm bill, to increase230the number of acres in the Conservation Reserve Program and to231create a pilot program to study innovative approaches to232improve soil health.233    I want to thank USDA for reopening sign-up for CRP without234major changes to the parts focused on wildlife that I have long235championed and will continue to champion.236    I am also looking forward to again joining with the237Majority Leader this week to introduce an updated version of238the Agriculture Innovation Act with the support of farmers and239conservation groups. This is part of my commitment to ensure240strong conservation initiatives are in place.241    Since the last farm bill, Congress has made historic242investments in voluntary conservation programs. Despite this243investment, demand from farmers and conservationists continue244to outpace available funding. It is my hope that there will245still be an opportunity to create increased long-term funding246for the USDA voluntary conservation programs in the farm bill247baseline.248    I am concerned about the recent loss of 2,400 employees249from NRCS, the pauses in funding, the cuts to technical250assistance, and a troubling budget proposal, which are pushing251us in the wrong direction. Connecting farmers with voluntary252conservation programs involves critical partnerships between253USDA, local conservation districts, wildlife organizations,254states, and businesses. These partnerships and NRCS staff in255rural America are important for operating the programs that the256farmers rely on.257    Funding disruptions are unfortunately impacting these258partners, and uncertainty has meant furloughs for many staff. I259have heard from farmers across my state that they need260certainty, the certainty of their USDA experts and partner261organizations like the ones that are here today.262    We are glad that some funds are slowly being released and263programs like CRP reopened, and of course this needs to be a264major part of any farm bill agreement for a future farm bill as265we go forward. I look forward to hearing from all of you. Thank266you.267    Chairman Boozman. Thank you. We are going to now ask268Senator Thune to introduce Mr. Tjeerdsma.269    Senator Thune. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me just270say how much I appreciate both you and Senator Klobuchar and271the leadership roles that you now have, and I look forward to272working with both of you and with the Members of this Committee273on a farm bill. As Senator Klobuchar pointed out, there are a274number of things in the Conservation Title that we have worked275together on through the years, and I hope that this farm bill276is an example of how this place can still work in a way that277gets the best farm policies in place for our farmers and278ranchers and make sure that our ag economy is set up for279success in this country and able to prosper.280    I am very honored today, Mr. Chairman, to be able to281introduce to this Committee Lynn Tjeerdsma. I have had the282pleasure of knowing Lynn for a few decades now. He is from a283small town of Platt, South Dakota, where he continues to run284his family farm. I might add I have hunted pheasants a number285of times on his place, and he practices what he preaches. The286conservation practices that he employs on his farm are a great287example, working lands, conservation, and how things ought to288be done.289    Lynn first came to work for me in the Senate in 2007 to290help out on the 2008 Farm Bill. After the bill passed, he291headed over to the Farm Service Agency at USDA to serve as292Assistant Deputy Administrator for Farm programs. I asked him293back in 2011 to work with me on the next farm bill. He was with294me not only for that one but for the subsequent farm bill after295that until his retirement in 2019. We have worked together now296on three farm bills.297    He did not go far, however, and he continues his work in298conservation, most recently becoming a member of the National299Board of Directors of Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever. I300would say South Dakota's--and I would argue really the Nation's301farmers and ranchers--are way better off today because of302Lynn's knowledge and his contributions. There is not anybody303that I have worked with who is more passionate about304agriculture in this country and creating the right conditions305for our farmers not only to thrive but to prosper. I am glad he306has once again been given the opportunity to share his307perspective with this Committee.308    I would just say, as someone who has been working on these309issues for a long time, there are certain, as we all know,310policy matters that come before this Committee that are311somewhat complicated, and there are not very many people I have312known in my time here that can fully explain the Dairy Program313or fully explain the Sugar Program or many of the other314programs, particularly the counter cyclical programs in Title315I, but Lynn can do that. He is incredibly knowledgeable,316passionate, and well-versed, and I welcome, as always, his317input and contributions to this farm bill, which I am confident318under your leadership we are going to get done. Thank you, Mr.319Chairman.320    Chairman Boozman. Thank you. We appreciate the Majority321Leader being here. He is incredibly busy but is one of our most322active Members.323    Senator Hyde-Smith is going to introduce Mr. Blair.324    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.325    I am really proud to introduce my friend Gary Blair, a326fellow Mississippian. Mr. Gary Blair, it says Starkville,327Mississippi, but we shared the hometown of Brookhaven,328Mississippi, for a long time and watched each other's children329grow up.330    Gary serves as President of the National Association of331Conservation Districts, which represents the 3,000 conservation332districts across 57 states and territories along with their333associations and 17,000 locally elected or appointed governing334board members. Conservation districts were first established in3351937 as local units of government by state law, originally336partnering with the Soil Conservation Service, which we know337today as the Natural Resources Conservation Service.338    Gary is a 1981 graduate of Mississippi State University and339recently retired after 36 years with Southern Ag Credit. He has340also served as President of the Mississippi Forestry341Association, the Mississippi Association of Conservation342Districts, and the Brookhaven Chamber of Commerce. He and his343wife Johnna have a son, Jonathan, who proudly followed in his344father's footsteps as a Mississippi State Bulldog.345    Gary, thank you for representing our state so well, and I346certainly look forward to a quick visit and your testimony347today.348    Chairman Boozman. Thank you.349    Next is Mr. Brad Doyle, a soybean, rice, and wheat farmer350from Poinsett County, Arkansas. Brad is a passionate person351about trade, scientific crop research, and plant breeding. He352operates the Eagle Seed Company with his son and wife, Joyce.353Joyce is with us today, who is also, like I say, certainly an354active member of the business. Eagle Seed Company specializes355in developing soybeans, rice, wheat, cereal, rye, food plots,356and cover crops.357    He serves on the State Board of Directors for Arkansas Farm358Bureau and served as President and Chairman of the American359Soybean Association. Thank you for being here.360    Mr. Chad Ellis is the Chief Executive Officer of Texas361Agricultural Land Trust. He has spent over 25 years362implementing stewardship-focused management with producers but363also on his own operation in Lohn, Texas. Chad is the past364Chair of the Roundtable for Sustainable Beef and the Ecosystem365Services Market Consortium and founding Chair of Trust In Beef366Program. He earned his degree in wildlife management from Sul367Ross State University and a graduate degree in animal science368from Angelo State University. Again, thank you for being here.369    Senator Durbin is going to introduce Mrs. Dwyer.370    Senator Durbin. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.371    This hearing on conservation has brought some wonderful372talent and resources to the Committee room this afternoon, and373one of them is my special guest, Mrs. Megan Dwyer, of Coal374Valley, Illinois. A fourth-generation farmer, Megan, along with375her husband Todd, run crop and livestock operations with their376families in both Coal Valley and Geneseo. Megan also serves as377Director of Conservation and Nutrient Stewardship for the378Illinois Corn Growers, and her expertise in conservation makes379her an especially valuable witness today.380    In addition to her farming and conservation background,381Megan also is a mother of four, and I am happy to see that she382is joined by Hailey, one of her daughters, who is in the fourth383grade and promises me that she is going to be in the fifth384grade next year.385    [Laughter.]386    Senator Durbin. She will be sharing her expertise with her387mom with the Committee, just like she shared her knowledge with388my staff and members of the Illinois delegation, farm groups,389and many others on farm conservation practices.390    I just want to close by making a book recommendation on the391topic of conservation. Probably the most eye-opening experience392in modern American history was the Great Dust Bowl. We have393seen some pictures of it, we have heard about it, we have our394impression of it. There is a book entitled The Worst Hard Time.395The author is Tim Egan. It is just amazing. It tells a story in396more detail and is more graphic than anything I have ever read397on the subject.398    I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this hearing, and I thank399Megan and Hailey for joining us today.400    Chairman Boozman. Thank you, Senator Durbin. Thank all of401you again for being here.402    Mr. Blair, you are now recognized for your statement.403404  STATEMENT OF GARY BLAIR, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF405        CONSERVATION DISTRICTS, STARKVILLE, MISSISSIPPI406407    Mr. Blair. First of all, I want to thank my U.S. Senator408Cindy Hyde-Smith.409    Chairman Boozman, Ranking Member Klobuchar, and Members of410the Committee, good afternoon and thank you for the opportunity411to speak with you today.412    With approximately 60 percent of our Nation's lands in413private ownership, our ability to achieve landscape-scale414conservation goals relies on the voluntary cooperation of415millions of farmers, ranchers, and forest stewards who manage416these lands every day. Our Nation's farmers and ranchers are417land stewards at heart. They want to leave the land better than418they found it, but they cannot do it alone. They need timely,419high-quality technical assistance and conservation programs420like EQIP and CSP to keep their lands healthy and productive.421    Approximately 39 percent of our lands are farmlands, and 88422percent of our farmers are small to medium-size operations.423Most have secondary sources of income so they can sustain their424passion for working the lands. About 30 percent of these are425new and beginning farmers.426    I cannot overstate the level of expertise and capacity427needed to serve our Nation's landowners and operators.428Technical assistance is the foundation of our conservation429delivery system, and cultivating relationships drives430successful outcomes. Conservation is not just a transaction; it431is a journey. There is no one-size-fits-all solution, and we432help ensure that conservation plans are tailored to address433producers' unique environmental challenges, as well as economic434realities.435    During President Trump's previous Administration, Secretary436Perdue assessed the NRCS's conservation workload, producer437needs, and drive times to visit NRCS and conservation district438offices where we are often co-located. They identified the439optimal office locations and approved an 11,000 employee440staffing cap at NRCS.441    NACD is highly supportive of this approach in optimizing442the staffing and offices, but we are concerned about the443reported separation of almost 2,400 NRCS employees and the444potential return to Fiscal Year 2020 onboard staffing levels.445It has been NACD's consistent position that these staffing446levels were insufficient to meet the producers' needs.447    Today, NRCS has even a higher workload associated with the448administration of the IRA funds. NACD is supportive of the449efforts to streamline government-stewarded taxpayer dollars. We450have been pleased with Chief Aubrey Bettencourt's leadership451and collaboration on conservation workforce needs. Through our452national and local partnership conservation districts, their453state associations, the state agencies are standing by to454support NRCS by contributing their expertise and financial455resources to ensure we collectively meet producer needs across456the country.457    Demand for conservation is high. Farm bill programs have458been constantly oversubscribed. In Fiscal Year 2024, IRA459allowed NRCS to fund 80 percent more EQIP and CSP applications.460This is still only 43 percent of the $8.7 billion requested by461producers. Because of NACD's top priority to ensure IRA funds462are integrated into the farm bill program, getting funding to463producers to implement conservation practices remains a mutual464priority, particularly given current economic challenges. We465know Secretary Rollins understands this, and we were pleased to466see that USDA will honor the existing contracts and expedite467the release of payments. NACD hopes to see the pause on new468obligations lifted, particularly for the new IRA-funded469contracts with the producers.470    American farmers, ranchers, and forest stewards are ready471and eager to participate in conservation programs. They simply472need certainty and tools to get it done. Maintaining strong473investments in farm bill conservation programs, technical474assistance, and supporting an efficient and skilled475conservation workforce, and ensuring local presence in476communities across this country allows us to fulfill our mutual477commitment to delivering results for producers, taxpayers, and478the land.479    Thank you for your time today and continued support of480locally led conservation.481    [The prepared statement of Mr. Blair can be found on pages48230-34 in the appendix.]483    Chairman Boozman. Thank you. Mr. Doyle.484485 STATEMENT OF BRAD DOYLE, BOARD MEMBER AND PRODUCER, ARKANSAS486                 FARM BUREAU, WEINER, ARKANSAS487488    Mr. Doyle. Thank you, Chairman Boozman, Ranking Member489Klobuchar, and Members of the Committee. It is an honor to be490here this afternoon on behalf of Arkansas Farm Bureau and its491180,000 members. I would just like to say how incredibly proud492we are of Chairman Boozman and his leadership. Mr. Chairman,493thank you for all you do for Arkansas producers and American494agriculture.495    My name is Brad Doyle. I am a third-generation farmer in496Poinsett County, Arkansas. Along with my wife, Joyce, and son,497Cody, we farm rice, soybeans, and wheat. Our family business498has been farming the land for over 100 years. We also run a499seed business, a seed production resource that provides500soybean, rice, corn, and wheat seed to farmers across the501United States and Canada.502    The United States is home to the most affordable, reliable,503and abundant food supply in the world. Many of your504constituents dedicate their lives to the land, providing the505knowledge, labor, and financial investment necessary for the506United States to remain a world leader in food and fiber507production. In recognition of the risk and responsibility508placed on American farmers, Congress has invested in509agriculture for over 90 years.510    The first farm programs created by Congress were a direct511response to the Dust Bowl and the Great Depression. During512another period of true crisis for production agriculture was in513the mid-1980's. Congress passed the first unified farm bill514that combined land retirement conservation programs with crop515insurance and Commodity Support programs.516    American row crop farmers are facing another historic517breaking point. As this Committee has heard over the past518several months, the current state of the U.S. agricultural519economy reveals a widening and unsustainable gap between the520prices farmers are paid for their products and the prices they521must pay to produce them. Crop farmers like myself have been522hit especially hard. According to USDA's farm sector income523forecast, inflation adjustment crop cash receipts have declined524since 2022 by $67 billion, or 22 percent, while input costs for525essentials like seed, chemicals, repairs, and taxes remain at526near record levels.527    Farmers today are caught between collapsing commodity528pricing and stubbornly high production prices. Despite recent529improvements in risk management tools like crop insurance and530ad hoc government assistance, the disparity between prices531received and prices paid has widened dramatically, threatening532the financial viability of farms across the Nation. Unless533structural changes are enacted through a modernized farm bill534that provides commodity support that reflects the cost of535production, enhanced risk management tools, meaningful536investment in trade, and strengthened conservation support, the537United States risks irreversible damage to its agricultural538foundation.539    The Conservation Title, the focus of today's hearing,540provides financial and technical support for farmers and541ranchers who voluntarily implement conservation practices. Let542me give you an example. In 1985, my father-in-law saw a need to543build the first reservoir on our family farm. He took 100 acres544out of production. Fast forward to 2019--that is a correction545in the record book. It should be 2019, not 2000, as is stated.546Our family started plans to apply for an EQIP-funded project to547build a second 45-acre reservoir on the opposite end of the548farm to help with the irrigation pumping capacity while549capturing rainwater in our area. It lessens the water burden on550our aquifers that we rely on for irrigation. Remind you, I am551in Poinsett County, number one rice-producing county in552America.553    The irrigation timing and management of excess water on a554flat rice and soybean farm are critical to crop production. The555reason our soils hold water well is they are very shallow and556thin, and we get a great response from irrigation. The project557that we started, it was completed in 2023 with a follow-up558cover crop plan that we initiated through 2024. With limited559funds available, it is critically important to formulate a560plan, get on the waiting list, and follow the detailed criteria561to follow the local NRCS support and fund such a large project.562    The demand for these programs consistently outpaces563available funding, leading to a need for more robust support in564future farm bills. In the 2018 Farm Bill, conservation programs565accounted for only seven percent of the total farm bill566spending. As Congress works to develop the next farm bill, the567inclusion of additional funds, namely those allocated to568agriculture conservation and the Inflation Reduction Act would569allow more producers to implement conservation practices,570ensuring healthy farmland for generations to come.571    With that, I will end my statement and want to thank you572all for having me here today.573    [The prepared statement of Mr. Doyle can be found on pages57435-37 in the appendix.]575    Chairman Boozman. Thank you. Mr. Tjeerdsma.576577   STATEMENT OF LYNN TJEERDSMA, MEMBER, BOARD OF DIRECTORS,578   PHEASANTS FOREVER AND QUAIL FOREVER, PLATTE, SOUTH DAKOTA579580    Mr. Tjeerdsma. Chairman Boozman, Ranking Member Klobuchar,581and Majority Leader Senator Thune, I really appreciate the582opportunity to be here, and I also appreciate, Senator Thune,583the opportunity you gave me for 11 years of working with you on584conservation programs and other programs. Also, I would like to585say the pheasants on my farm do not look forward to your586return. He is an excellent shot. I have experienced that587myself, so a real sportsman and pleasure to hunt with and588passionate about conservation programs, as are many of the589Members of this Committee that I have worked with and members590of the staff that I have worked with over the years on farm591bills.592    I am a farmer, rancher, retired public servant, and I593currently serve on the Board of Directors for Pheasants Forever594and Quail Forever, and it is a privilege to testify here today595on behalf of the members, partners in the farming and ranching596community.597    Here is some numbers about Pheasants Forever, how important598they are, and Quail Forever for conservation. Over 490,000599members, supporters, and partners, 750 local chapters that make600up the Nation's largest nonprofit organization dedicated to601upland habitat conservation. Since 1982, PF and QF have602invested more than $1 billion in 580,000 habitat projects603benefiting 28.8 million acres, and that is an impact, and that604is why we need the Conservation Title so this can continue.605    We partner with thousands of private landowners, farm and606ranch families, state and wildlife agencies, and federal607partners at USDA. Each year, more than 480 PF and QF wildlife608biologists and conservation professionals help producers plan609and implement wildlife-friendly, economically viable610conservation practices on their farms. I know this from611personal experience. The voluntary, incentive-based, locally612led conservation programs in the farm bill on my farm have613protected the fragile acres, improved soil health, reduced614erosion, and provided ample wildlife habitat, resulting in615sporting opportunities for me, my son, grandsons, and friends.616The technical assistance I have received, thanks to the farm617bill and PF and QF biologists, has been invaluable in selecting618the best practices and achieving my farming operation goals.619    The farm bill is a critical and practical conservation620policy tool that benefits producers, rural communities, and the621hunting and outdoor recreation economy, and I would like to say622in my home State of South Dakota, pheasant hunting alone in6232023 provides $281 million to the state's economy, over a624quarter of a billion dollars just from pheasant hunting alone,625which the pheasants are there because of the Conservation Title626in the farm bill.627    This is why we need to pass a five-year farm bill with628strong investments in conservation practices and technical629assistance to meet oversubscribed farmer and rancher demand.630Incorporating unspent Inflation Reduction Act funding into the631Conservation Title baseline is a necessary move that has632bipartisan support in Congress.633    We also need to shore up and improve the Conservation634Reserve Program, which is one of the most essential farm bill635programs for America's soil, water, and wildlife producers.636When I first left the farm in 1985 as CED, County Executive637Director, in Moody County, South Dakota, we implemented the638first farm bill, which was authorized in the first CRP program,639which was authorized in the 1985 Farm Bill, and to see the640program expand to what it is now and what it is done is another641reason I am here and saying how important the Conservation642Title is. The CRP Improvement Act, led by Majority Leader643Thune, Ranking Member Klobuchar, addresses many of the needs644that we see now in the Conservation Reserve Program.645    Another key program, the Voluntary Public Access Program,646which supports America's hunting, heritage, and boosts rural647recreation economies, Senators Bennet, Daines, and Marshall648have introduced the VPA Improvement Act to maximize this649program's economic benefits.650    Among other priorities outlined in my testimony, we support651full funding for EQIP (Environmental Quality Incentive652Program), Working Lands for Wildlife, which strengthen habitat653and working landscapes while helping growers navigate654regulatory and business pressures. These programs can be655improved by the Agriculture Innovation Act, also led by656Majority Leader Thune and Ranking Member Klobuchar. This bill657will enable USDA to analyze and compile farm data, returning658insights to growers on conservation benefits.659    In closing, thank you very much for the opportunity to660testify today and for your consideration of these priorities. I661look forward to your questions.662    [The prepared statement of Mr. Tjeerdsma can be found on663pages 38-47 in the appendix.]664    Chairman Boozman. Thank you. Mr. Ellis.665666    STATEMENT OF CHAD ELLIS, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, TEXAS667          AGRICULTURAL LAND TRUST, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS668669    Mr. Ellis. Good afternoon, Chairman Boozman and Members of670the Committee. My name is Chad Ellis, the Executive Officer of671the Texas Agricultural Land Trust and also the Vice President672of Partnership of Rangeland Trust.673    TALT was developed by producers for producers by our674founding members of the Texas Farm Bureau, Texas Southwestern675Cattle Raisers Association, and Texas Wildlife Association, our676three major grassroots landowner-led organizations. The677leadership of these organizations were forward-thinking and678realized that they needed a trusted source to help keep our679working lands working and providing tools for land stewards680for, you know, their heritage and legacy and providing food and681economic stability for their communities. I am happy today to682share with you we have helped empower over 70 families and over683300,000 acres across Texas.684    I wish I was here, you know, really to provide good news,685but I am here to really kind of share instead the reality of686what faces our land stewards across Texas and across this687Nation. In the last five years, we have seen over 18,000 farms688and ranches lost in Texas. We are seeing an increase of 1,200689to 1,400 people moving to our state daily, an increase of a690half a million people a year. This nexus is really driving, you691know, issues for us as land producers to how do we stay in692business.693    Texas A&M's research and the Texas land trends basically in6942007 to 2012 were showing that we were losing 49 acres a day.695As I look, Mr. Chairman, on my watch, as I have been sitting696here with this great group here, we have lost another 49 acres697in Texas. We are losing over 1,000 acres a day in Texas of our698working lands that are being basically converted into the last699crop, the crop of concrete.700    At TALT, we help landowners protect their legacies through701voluntary conservation easements, but these tools are only702possible because of the farm bill programs as the Agricultural703Conservation Easement Program, the Regional Conservation704Partnership Program, which combine federal, private, and state705funding to make conservation financially viable. These are not706just conservation programs; they are National Security707programs. They ensure that future generations of Americans have708access to healthy food, clean water, open space. They keep709private working lands productive and in the hands of the people710that know them the best. That is my fellow ranchers, farmers,711and private foresters.712    As Congress works to reauthorize the farm bill, we urge you713to maintain robust funding for our ASEP, ALE, and the RCPP714programs so landowners can voluntarily protect their land while715keeping it in production. This demand is seen at a demand that716we have never seen before.717    We also ask for you to eliminate the adjusted gross income718limitations from ASEP, ALE, because compensation for the719purchase of a conservation easement is not a subsidy but a720conveyance of a private real property.721    We also ask you to look at the Exempt Conservation Easement722Program payments from future AGI, reduce administrative burdens723that delay the project implementation and discourage724participation. One viable tool that we have for streamlining725implementation is through certified entities, which recognizes726exceptional land trust and delegates authorities to these727entities. Last, to support flexibility in these programs728designed so that landowners and partners can effectively729deliver these tools.730    I want to leave you with this, Chairman. In Texas, in a731year's time, we lose over 370,000 acres. That is equivalent to732losing over 8\1/2\ Washington, DC's. If we were able to retain733rainfall on those lands, it would fill approximately 180734billion water bottles, 180 billion water bottles. I think735Lyndon B. Johnson stated it the best, ``Soil and water736conservation starts where the first raindrop falls.'' That is737on a farmer, that is on a rancher, that is on a private738forester. No land, no water, there is no future for our future739agriculturalists like we have behind us, so we must keep our740working lands working and providing for all Americans.741    Thank you and God bless.742    [The prepared statement of Mr. Ellis can be found on pages74348-50 in the appendix.]744    Chairman Boozman. Thank you. Mrs. Dwyer.745746STATEMENT OF MEGAN DWYER, DIRECTOR OF CONSERVATION AND NUTRIENT747 STEWARDSHIP, ILLINOIS CORN GROWERS ASSOCIATION, COAL VALLEY,748                            ILLINOIS749750    Mrs. Dwyer. Good afternoon. It is an honor to be here today751and an even greater honor to represent midwest farmers. Though752some might call it multitasking madness, I come to you wearing753several hats, fourth-generation farmer, certified crop advisor,754ag professional, and mom. Our Illinois family farm grows corn,755soybeans, alfalfa, and beef cattle. With my husband, we are756raising the fifth generation. As you have heard, our oldest757daughter is here with me today and will hopefully leave758inspired.759    We are here to discuss conservation, something I have760devoted my professional career to. As the Director of761Conservation and Nutrient Stewardship for Illinois Corn, I762strive to ensure that policies and regulatory efforts are763grounded in both science and common sense. My goal is to bridge764the gap between farm fields and policy and make the765complexities of conservation feel as relatable as baking766chocolate chip cookies.767    As NRCS celebrates 90 years, it is a good time to reflect.768For decades, we have rightly focused on protecting our most769vulnerable soils. I am here to ask us to think differently, to770consider how programs can better protect our most productive771soils.772    When you hear Illinois, odds are you think of Chicago. The773reality is, about 70 percent of Illinois is farmland. That is77424 million acres of cropland, about the size of nearly 1/3 of775all U.S. cities combined. Our farm fields are a powerhouse of776productivity, yet when it comes to federal conservation777funding, we receive only a small fraction. From 2018 to 2022,778Illinois received just 1.3 percent of EQIP funding. In779comparison, Georgia received nearly three times that investment780for 1/5 of the cropland.781    In 2024, only 6.4 of the 21.5 million in EQIP funds782Illinois received supported cropland conservation. Thanks to a783strong collaboration with Senator Durbin's office, the Illinois784Corn Growers Association and the Illinois Department of Ag were785able to secure an additional $15 million of traditional EQIP786funds to address conservation priorities. This more than787doubled the state's cropland EQIP budget, enabling targeted788efforts to reduce nutrient loss and preserve topsoil. Those789funds were contracted, but they highlighted the intense790competition farmers face for Federal Conservation programs and791the value of partnerships.792    Meaningful progress requires financial investments, and793securing sufficient funding to fully support a state like794Illinois with its 24 million acres of farmland takes a creative795and strategic approach that recognizes we cannot fix the796problem overnight. One way to sustain this momentum is797incorporating IRA conservation funds into the farm bill798baseline. If we fail to deliver modernized effective programs,799technical assistance, and meaningful funding to our farmers, we800can expect more outcomes like the 2023 and 2024 dust storms in801central Illinois that closed major interstates and caused loss802of life. Our approach can make a difference between success and803failure. Too often we zero in on one granular issue or promote804a one-size-fits-all solution without stepping back to consider805the broader path to success.806    Now for the cookies. If I asked each of you to describe the807perfect chocolate chip cookie, I would likely get 23 different808answers. Some would say thin and crispy, some would say soft809and chewy, maybe a few with nuts. Now imagine I told each of810you to go bake your ideal cookie but did not give you a recipe.811That is the challenge farmers face when trying to implement812conservation practices. Even if I did give you all the same813recipe, you would all get different results because no two814ovens bake the same, just like no two farm fields respond the815same way.816    Successful conservation does not happen by accident. It817requires a strong partnership, reliable funding, trusted local818expertise, and flexibility. Accessible field offices for NRCS819and FSA, along with well-staffed agencies like EPA and U.S.820Fish and Wildlife, ensure we have boots on the ground and every821tool in the conservation toolbox. Public-private partnerships822amplify this effect, while a strong safety net and technical823assistance help drive real adoption.824    We could spend hours discussing the barriers, ranging from825financial constraints, technical assistance, machinery, time,826and the fact that over 70 percent of Illinois farmland is owned827by someone other than the farm family tenant. I would prefer to828focus on solutions. RCPP is one such solution, providing829support that made Illinois corn's flagship initiative,830Precision Conservation Management, possible. PCM is an831economic-focused program that has proven we can far exceed the832success of traditional conservation efforts by leveraging833strategic private partnerships, providing boots on the ground,834and allowing flexibility in implementation. The program's835longstanding partnership with PepsiCo is just one example where836leveraging public and private contributions generates $1.50837going to farmers for every one federal dollar invested.838    Success will not come from rebranding programs for working839lands. We must design entirely new approaches that recognize840the uniqueness of each acre and meet farmers where they are at.841We must reevaluate practice standards and decide if close842enough is acceptable to achieve greater scalability or if the843pursuit of perfection will limit our progress. We must consider844how federal crop insurance can be supportive by recognizing the845risk-reducing benefits of conservation, covering the transition846to new practices, and offering flexibility for innovative847approaches like growing cover crops ahead of your cash crop.848    Baby boomers currently own the majority of farmland across849the United States, and within the next decade, their average850age will reach 80. This puts us on the edge of a generational851cliff. Without robust programs to help the next generation not852only gain access to farmland, but also be economically equipped853to adopt conservation practices, we risk losing our position as854a global leader in production agriculture.855    I appreciate your time today and look forward to answering856any questions.857    [The prepared statement of Mrs. Dwyer can be found on pages85851-58 in the appendix.]859    Chairman Boozman. Thank you. A big thanks to all of our860witnesses for being here today.861    We will now begin with one round of five-minute questions862per Member, and it is good to see Mike Conaway here, the former863Chair of House Agriculture. You have got two former Chairs that864you worked with staring down at you, as they do with me every865hearing.866    For all of the witnesses, anybody that wants to speak up,867can you talk about why the locally led model of conservation868delivery supported by NRCS where decisions are left to the869individual producer has been so successful and how we can get870more decision-making to the state and local level?871    Mr. Doyle. I will go ahead and speak to that. I think, as872mentioned in many of our speeches already, we are so different.873Every farm is different. Even within a farm, we have so much874variability in soil, topography, the way fields drain, so I875think it is up to our local NRCS engineers and technicians to876help farmers, you know, create and find solutions that work for877that individual farm. Every field will be handled, you know,878differently, so I think that individual look at projects going879forward, one size fits all, is not the way to go. I think the880way that it is right now is working for us. Our close881involvement at the local level, we can go up there, speak to882them in person, is extremely important to all of us.883    Chairman Boozman. Very good. Anybody else?884    Mr. Tjeerdsma. I would just like to say, based on my885personal experience with NRCS and also with the wildlife886biologists that partner with Pheasants Forever, Quail Forever,887that partner with USDA, these programs are so complex, and888farming has gotten so much more complex than it was when I889started farming in 1972. Technical assistance is desperately890needed. When you look at the cadre of conservation programs891from CRP to ASEP to different ones, and Fish and Wildlife892Service was mentioned as well, if we do not have the technical893assistance that is available to us now, I think these894conservation programs are going to go by the wayside simply895because the farmers and ranchers are not going to be utilizing896them.897    You know, I cannot emphasize enough in this farm bill,898based on my personal experience, how even though we realize we899are in an atmosphere of budget cuts and needing to streamline900and having spent a big part of my career at FSA, I understand901how important that is, but there have got to be priorities, and902technical assistance is one of those priorities. Also, the903partnering with the wildlife biologists, Pheasants Forever,904Quail Forever, they come out to the farm, they work closely905with the farmer, and strictly voluntarily, the farmer can say,906I want to do this, this, and this--that is what I did--and set907up a conservation plan. Thank you for the question, and it is908really important.909    Chairman Boozman. Thank you.910    Mr. Blair. I would also like to speak on behalf of the911conservation districts who are housed within our local USDA912service centers. We are right there working with them hand in913hand every day, and we are not costing the Federal Government914anything by the work that is being done by these local915conservation district employees. Some of them are technicians,916some of them are more administrative, but we are right there917day to day working hand in hand with NRCS.918    We are tied on the NRCS side to dollars for engineering. It919is harder and harder to find qualified engineers that are920willing to come to work for NRCS on the pay scale that is being921provided by the U.S. Government.922    Chairman Boozman. Very good. Mrs. Dwyer?923    Mrs. Dwyer. I would add, looking at this in two buckets on924the capacity, we need staff that have the capacity to serve the925number of farmers in their area, but more importantly, we need926that trusted relationship. A farmer wants to know that the927people they are working with not only understand the resource928concerns of their local area but truly want to see them succeed929and understand their concerns. You cannot have that when you930have technical assistance that is 50, 100 miles away or just a931few in a state.932    Chairman Boozman. Very good.933    Mr. Doyle, in your testimony you mentioned a reservoir that934was recently completed on your farm that utilized EQIP to935complete the project. Tell us more about your experience936working with NRCS and how important getting EQIP funding was to937the financial viability of the project.938    Mr. Doyle. There is very limited funding available, but it939is kind of like a waiting line. I think in my county alone940there are about 2,000 acres of reservoirs, just for your941knowledge. We water every crop that we grow in our county.942    We started the planning and application process pre-COVID,943around 2019. Went in, talked to the technicians, you know,944developed a plan, what is the best place to put it on the farm.945You also have to realize that that 45 acres will never be946farmed again. We took it out of production for the long term,947but it is going to ensure that we have the available water in948the future. You know, whatever crop we grow is very important949to us.950    The process was extremely easy. It was very local. I think951my county office is within 15 miles of our farm, so the952accessibility to the technicians, the planners, the agents in953the office was tremendous. We have a great staff at Poinsett954County.955    The follow-through was slowed due to COVID. There were some956issues on supplying of the pipe, the underground pipe, the dirt957work. The dirt work expenses, and fuel cost alone went up958tremendously, so the funding for those projects does not go as959far as it once did.960    Then we wrapped up the project. We finally got to turn the961pumps on last year. We followed that up with a cover crop plan962to ensure the erosion was reduced on the farm and all of, you963know, the soil health plan was in place because it is, you964know, hopefully going to be there for the next generation or965two on our farming operation. With that also, it helps our966neighbors because we are not removing as much groundwater as we967once did.968    Chairman Boozman. Senator Klobuchar.969    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.970    I mentioned that Leader Thune and I are continuing our work971to make improvements to CRP and ensure that the USDA continues972to offer the program and prioritize habitat. The CRP973legislation we have worked on would improve access to grazing,974provide more enrollment options for producers, and create975certainty for the State Acres for Wildlife Enhancement976practice.977    Mr. Tjeerdsma, I enjoyed our meeting earlier today. I know978you have personal experience with CRP on your own farm. Can you979explain how CRP can help both a farmer's bottom line and980support wildlife and explain the importance of technical981assistance from USDA or Pheasants Forever?982    Mr. Tjeerdsma. Thank you very much for the question,983Ranking Member Klobuchar. I cannot say enough, as I mentioned984before, about how important technical assistance is. I will985answer that question first because without it, we cannot get986these practices on the ground.987    As far as the Conservation Reserve Program, you know--and988Chairman Boozman, I know how passionate you are about the989Commodity Title and making sure that we have the concern that990there is an economic assistance in this next farm bill for991farmers. I would like to point out also just how the992Conservation Title offers a safety net for farmers. On my own993farm, I have taken the worst ground, the poorest ground that I994have. We are not like the ``I'' states that have five feet of995black loam soil. We have varied soil, we have some very good996soils, and we have some very poor soils. I can take that poor997ground--and I have done this over the years that I have998farmed--and put that ground and roll that ground in CRP.999    Just this last year, one piece of ground that I had rolled1000in CRP, I put 16 acres into CRP. What that did last year, it1001raised the average yield, the soybean yield on that piece of1002ground by at least 10 bushels to the acre. Plus, I got a CRP1003payment for those 16 acres that I placed there.1004    I think it is important that when we look at safety net for1005agriculture, we look at the CRP program and others, how we can1006take some of this land--and with the equipment that we have1007now, where we can pinpoint--I mean, I can look at a map coming1008off the combine, and I can see where the most productive ground1009is and target that ground and say, okay, we need to--this is1010not paying the bill, this is not paying for the inputs that I1011am putting on it.1012    With that, I would like to say personally, I know how1013important these programs are, how we can pinpoint, how we can1014target. CRP is no longer considered the--you know, we put the1015whole landscape in, the whole farm is. We need to stop thinking1016about that and think about how it can be effectively used as a1017pinpoint tool to help operations get a better bottom line.1018Thank you.1019    Senator Klobuchar. Very good. Thank you very much. I also1020mentioned the other bill that Senator Thune and I have. Could1021you quickly talk about how improved use of data that USDA1022collects strengthens ag research and makes it easier to figure1023out which conservation, just in 30 seconds here, because I have1024one more question?1025    Mr. Tjeerdsma. Sure. Thank you for that question as well.1026The Ag Data Bill is really important to me, having spent more1027than half my career at FSA. Knowing the wealth of information,1028I have also been involved extensively with NRCS and crop1029insurance and knowing there is so much information that USDA1030gathers.1031    Let me give you an example. I use cover crops on my farm,1032and there are so many different types of planting options when1033you put in a cover crop as far as the seed that you can use.1034There is also different planting methods. I have flown on my1035soybeans with an airplane. I have also drilled it in after we1036harvest. Those are kind of guessing games, as far as what is1037going to work best where if we had ag data where USDA could1038coalesce this data and come up with, so I could look at what1039they say and say, okay, this is----1040    Senator Klobuchar. Okay.1041    Mr. Tjeerdsma [continuing]. going to work better on my land1042in this area, that is just an example of how that could work.1043    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Thank you.1044    Mrs. Dwyer, I mentioned the wide-ranging workforce1045reductions that are currently going on at NRCS and FSA and the1046proposed elimination of conservation technical assistance. I1047know in Minnesota NRCS has lost 40 employees between January1048and March. That was before the projected next round of staffing1049cuts nationally of 2,400 NRCS, 1,100 FSA. Mrs. Dwyer, how will1050fewer staff at local USDA offices impact the work that farmers1051do?1052    Mrs. Dwyer. Thank you. It is a great question. As I1053mentioned before, it comes down to relationships and those1054trusted relationships, as well as the knowledge and the1055expertise in these areas. You know, I think to your specific1056question, it is a little too soon for us to see the full1057impacts, but I will say we know for sure that if we expect to1058see less staff in these offices with the archaic IT and systems1059that they are using, we are going to continue to see long1060lines, delays in enrollment, struggles and frustrations with1061the farmers showing up, looking to get service and that1062technical assistance. I also think that is an opportunity where1063partnerships can come in, things like--I mentioned I am a1064certified crop advisor. I have taken advantage of the recent1065MOU between NRCS and the CCAs to allow more of a streamlined1066path for some private sector to offer some additional support1067to help offices that were already struggling to provide enough1068TA to farmers.1069    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Thank you.1070    Chairman Boozman. Senator Ernst.1071    Senator Ernst. Thank you, Chairman Boozman and Ranking1072Member Klobuchar, and thanks to our panel of witnesses for1073being here today. We really appreciate your testimony and your1074willingness to visit with us about the importance of1075conservation.1076    I have the privilege of traveling all across Iowa, and I do1077not even have to travel river to river. I get it at home all1078the time. I come from a farm family. My hairstylist, I grew up1079with her husband who is a farmer. My dental hygienist the other1080day was giving me the lowdown. You know, her husband is a1081beginning farmer to the next community up, and so I hear a lot.1082Of course, this has been a big topic. We really need the farm1083bill done, and they want to know that the Title II conservation1084is also going to get completed.1085    What they want to do, of course, we are talking about1086improving soil health, our water quality, and the long-term1087productivity, which some of you have addressed already. They1088face a lot of barriers with the rigid USDA standards. It really1089slows things down. I have reintroduced my Streamlining1090Conservation Practice Standards Act to modernize how USDA's1091Natural Resource Conservation Service updates its technical1092standards, and that will serve as a guide for many of the Title1093II farm bill programs. The bill would update the agency's1094process to require a regular review of existing conservation1095practice standards. It would create a public process for1096submitting and adopting new practices, and it would prioritize1097the integration of innovative tools like nutrient efficiency1098technologies. Biological fertilizer is one of those examples1099that is proven to improve plant growth.1100    Ultimately, the goal is simple. Let us cut the red tape.1101Let us keep standards science-based and flexible, very key, and1102help farmers get conservation tools in use faster.1103    I am really thankful that I have colleagues like Senator1104Durbin, Senator Marshall, and Senator Heinrich. They have also1105joined me in this effort as well. It is a good bipartisan1106product.1107    Mrs. Dwyer, I will start with you. You work at the1108Intersection of Production Agriculture and Innovation as a1109farmer and with the Illinois Corn Growers, so can you maybe1110talk a little bit about the delays in updating practice1111standards? Do these create a barrier for innovation,1112particularly when it comes to nutrient management and soil1113health?1114    Mrs. Dwyer. Thank you. I love this question. You know, I1115think you brought it up on looking at how practice standards1116are developed today. Right now, NRCS defaults to land-grant1117universities. Unfortunately, in Illinois, they do not even1118default to University of Illinois. They are going outside of1119Illinois to look at what those mean. I think it is, first and1120foremost, how can we get some of that boots-on-the-ground1121information, whether it is through CIGs and other NRCS programs1122and private programs, and actually utilize that data? You know,1123we are concerned and we know that data drives decisions, so how1124can we take the boots-on-the-ground information, as well as1125knowing that farmers are natural innovators? They are going to1126adopt technologies and precision ag that is going to outpace1127what we see in some of these standards. Ensuring the technology1128keeps up for what is actually happening on the farm and why we1129can be more innovative and flexible is absolutely crucial if we1130want to see conservation scalable and adopted at the pace that1131we need to meet the goals of things like the nutrient loss1132reduction strategy.1133    Senator Ernst. Right, I love it. Thank you for that. I1134really appreciate your input and advocacy on that.1135    Mr. Blair, conservation districts are often at the1136frontline. We have already heard a little bit about that, but1137how could increased transparency and public engagement in the1138conservation practice standard process improve trust and1139effectiveness at a local level?1140    Mr. Blair. Trust is, you know, key, I think, in all of what1141we do. Making sure that the farmers and ranchers understand1142that they can trust not only the local conservation district,1143but also the NRCS employees in making sure the productivity of1144their soils are maximized in order to increase the amount of1145income that they can reach off their farms. It is very key, it1146is a very important part of what we are doing, and I look1147forward to learning more about your programs and getting those1148implemented.1149    Senator Ernst. Yes, wonderful. Just in closing, I think1150trust is a big part of this. We have all of these young men and1151women, or men and women my age even, that are out working1152across these offices. You come from communities like ours. We1153are all intertwined, we all know each other, and we trust that1154they are going to do the best for our family farms and for our1155future generations. Our communities rely on that.1156    Thank you, Mr. Chair.1157    Chairman Boozman. Thank you. Senator Bennet.1158    Senator Bennet. Thank you very much, Chairman, for this1159important hearing. Thank you all for being here.1160    Mr. Ellis, I have a question for you. As I think you1161probably know, in Colorado, conservation easements protect a1162huge amount of land. We have three million acres of critical1163habitats, agricultural land, and scenic landscapes, but current1164valuation methods often emphasize lost development potential,1165failing to account for the ecological, wildlife, water quality,1166and landscape connectivity benefits these lands provide. I have1167heard from producers all over my state that we need a more1168accurate and practical and modern approach to these valuations,1169one that truly reflects the long-term value of conserved1170agricultural land.1171    I am sure you have had the benefit of thinking about this1172over the years. I would be curious about your recommendation1173for approaching easement valuation to ensure fair land1174assessments and support effective long-term conservation.1175    Mr. Ellis. Yes, thank you, Senator Bennet. Yes, in fact,1176you know, I believe there are several reasons why we need to1177look at, you know, alternative methodologies. You know, first,1178conservation is about, you know, conserving ecological systems,1179so that includes, you know, raising and growing food and fiber.1180We should have a valuation system, you know, that is valuing1181conservation, not the elimination of development. I think1182unfortunately when we look at it today, while our conservation1183easements do limit, you know, the development, they should not1184be seen as an anti-development tool. They should really be seen1185as a conservation tool.1186    I think one of the things, Senator Bennet, that we must,1187you know, kind of be careful with is we kind of start thinking1188of ensuring alternative methodologies, that we do not create1189speculative markets that incentivize investors over farms and1190ranch families, so I think this, you know, methodology we1191really need to, you know, look at, be very careful.1192    I think it is really about stacking, right, and stacking1193value. Senator Bennet, I think of a great example is some of1194your work you have looked at of conservation easements on1195groundwater.1196    Senator Bennet. Right.1197    Mr. Ellis. Right? If we think about it from that aspect1198where we help empower those farmers, ranchers on that1199groundwater easement, and then we stack a traditional1200conservation on, you know, a land surface type of easement,1201right, and then we start adding that extra value.1202    We also look at free markets and leveraging our public to1203private, and we have many markets of carbon markets, et cetera,1204where this can also layer in and also look at, you know,1205increased funding on carbon markets, especially with producers,1206especially one from the buyer side, right? We look on the buyer1207side, if that producer has a conservation easement, there is1208assurance on them that that investment is always going to be1209there long term.1210    Senator Bennet. I appreciate that, and thanks for1211acknowledging the groundwater conservation. That came from1212producers in Colorado, that idea, and I think it makes a lot of1213sense. They understand that we are dealing with a fragile1214ecosystem here, that everybody rises and falls together in some1215sense, and we need to make sure that development is not1216necessarily always the answer, and preserving these watersheds1217often is, so I appreciate that.1218    Mr. Chairman, I have got one more quick question, I hope,1219for Mr. Blair. Thank you for being here.1220    In Colorado, farmers and ranchers are up against a lot, as1221they are all over the country, less water to work with, tough1222winters and soils that are quick to erode. Conservation looks1223different in every part of my state and all across the country.1224While federal programs can help provide tailored proactive1225support, these programs are stretched too thin, and this leaves1226too many producers without the technical assistance they need1227to prepare for drought, floods, and other environmental1228challenges.1229    I wonder, Mr. Blair, how NRCS can expand standalone1230technical assistance to ensure that farmers and ranchers can1231access site-specific conservation planning, regardless of their1232ability or even desire to enter into a federal program?1233    Mr. Blair. Thank you for that question, Senator. Colorado1234is one of my favorite states to spend some time in and enjoy--1235--1236    Senator Bennet. Come back anytime.1237    Mr. Blair. You know, it is important, technical assistance,1238the work we do. Working together, not only with NRCS, but also1239with technical service providers within or across our states,1240help implement these programs and work together. We are doing1241that in just about every state across the Nation, working with1242our TSPs, our technical service providers, and those are people1243that are contract workers that work hand in hand with our1244conservation district and receive funds for the work that they1245are doing. There are ways to do that, the ways to continue to1246get the technical assistance to the producers and on the1247ground.1248    Senator Bennet. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1249    Chairman Boozman. Senator Hyde-Smith.1250    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1251    My question also is for Mr. Blair. As you know, the1252Conservation Stewardship Program, CSP, and the Environmental1253Quality Incentives Program, EQIP, are very popular in1254Mississippi. One of the many benefits of these important1255working lands programs is that they allow private land to1256remain in production while farmers and ranchers implement1257various conservation practices.1258    These programs are a win-win. Farmers are seeing increased1259productivity on their land through the conservation practices1260they implement, which, of course, improves the soil, water, and1261overall environmental quality of the land they rely on to feed1262us.1263    A major change to CSP in the 2018 Farm Bill shifted it from1264a program limited by acres or annual enrollment to a program1265limited by total annual funding. While that does not sound like1266a major change, it has had a big impact on limiting future CSP1267enrollment. In the next farm bill, would you agree that1268Congress should invest in popular working land programs like1269CSP and EQIP? What are you hearing from any landowners who have1270applied for CSP or EQIP but have yet to be approved?1271    Mr. Blair. Definitely, Senator Hyde-Smith, those are two1272important programs to the Mississippi Delta and to Mississippi1273in general, and we are at times not receiving enough funding1274for CSP or EQIP across the Nation, so they are very important1275to continue to fund those. I know in Mississippi we have got a1276great state conservationist who will take money from any other1277state that does not want to utilize their money and put those1278conservation practices on the ground.1279    I am hearing the same thing you are hearing. Our farmers1280need more CSP money, and the recent changes in CSP has limited1281our Delta farmers in Mississippi, as well as those others1282across the state. They are both very vital, important programs,1283and NACD supports both of those to be funded fully and allow1284our farmers and producers to receive the benefits from both1285EQIP and CSP. Thank you.1286    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you. Conservation Districts have1287been key partners in the construction and maintenance of flood1288control infrastructure through the USDA Watershed and Flood1289Prevention Operations program. This important program has been1290utilized in Mississippi to help reduce flood, erosion, and1291sedimentation damage in various watersheds. As you highlighted1292in your testimony, maintaining this infrastructure is essential1293for protecting our citizens, communities, small businesses, and1294producers.1295    What are you hearing from your members in Mississippi about1296the need to construct and maintain critical water1297infrastructure? How can Congress better support that work?1298    Mr. Blair. Thank you again, Senator, for that question. Our1299Watershed Program is very key in Mississippi. We are number two1300to Oklahoma as far as the number of watersheds. I have a1301watershed lake on my property. It has been rehabbed once1302already. We have a number of our watersheds that were built in1303the 1960's that are needing some rehab work done on those, so1304funding for watersheds and watershed rehab is very key going1305forward.1306    We have a number of cities that have grown underneath these1307watersheds, and we need to make sure that those dams do not1308fail. We have already had dam failures across the Nation and in1309Mississippi, so it is very key.1310    We also have a lake, a reservoir in Mississippi that the1311dam failed in North Mississippi, Arkabutla Lake, and we need to1312get that levee rebuilt to protect our farmers across the1313northern part of the Mississippi Delta, so any action that you1314can take to help us with that, we would greatly appreciate it.1315    Senator Hyde-Smith. Great. My last question is for Mr.1316Tjeerdsma. In your testimony, you discussed the Agricultural1317Conservation Easement Program and the long-term certainty it1318provides landowners. In my state, wetland easements are widely1319used in the Mississippi Delta, where several counties are1320seeing near-record enrollment. These easements play a key role1321in protecting critical wildlife habitat while creating long-1322term recreational and economic value for Mississippians. In the1323next farm bill, how can Congress reduce regulatory burdens in1324the Wetland Reserve Easement Program to enable it to enroll1325more landowners and build on its successes?1326    Mr. Tjeerdsma. I think, as Senator Ernst talked about with1327the bill that she and others have introduced--having spent more1328than half my career at USDA Farm Service Agency, I will say1329there is an obsession with process, and this is something that1330has really--you know, I would ask you as a Committee, and I1331think you are going on the right track, that is probably one of1332the biggest deterrents and why we need so much technical1333assistance is the complexity of the programs, the complexity of1334the sign-up process that we have to go through, whether it is1335one of the easement programs under ACEP. Sometimes throwing1336more money, making more money available is not always the1337answer. It is how can we make the program more workable? How1338can we make the sign-up process easier? Especially when we are1339looking at the reduction in cuts or reduction in staff, there1340has got to be a balance, and I think that balance is to1341simplify the sign-up process, and I hope this Committee can1342work on that. Thank you very much, excellent question.1343    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you very much.1344    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1345    Chairman Boozman. Thank you. Senator Durbin.1346    Senator Durbin. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.1347    Two years ago, my wife was visiting family and called me1348and told me something is happening on Interstate 55, which is1349just south of Springfield. She said we have been diverted, and1350I have to go through Taylorville, which is another 30, 401351miles. It must have been an accident. Well, there sure was. In1352May 2023 on Interstate 55 south of Springfield, there was a 72-1353vehicle pileup that took the lives of eight people. The reason?1354A dust storm. The University of Illinois recently completed a1355study that concluded the lack of ground cover and dry1356conditions were contributing to that.1357    Mrs. Dwyer, you and I probably discussed this before. You1358indicated Illinois ranks very low in conservation dollars sent1359in by USDA. We need more. Can you explain why we have so few?1360    Mrs. Dwyer. I would love to know why we do not see the1361proportion of dollars we would like to see. As we have heard1362from some other panelists, I think it is also important to note1363that, especially in a state with the size of Illinois, it is1364not going to be dollars alone that fix this. It is the process.1365    We think about 22 million acres of corn and soybeans, yet1366we have about a million acres of cover crops. That leaves a1367glaring hole on what needs to happen, and the question is why.1368It is looking at this instead of focusing on the practice of1369cover crops, what is it going to take to assist a farmer in1370that transition and to holistically support that systems1371change?1372    We have members that have gone into NRCS and have been1373denied six years in a row for their EQIP application. It is a1374combination of the funding, the burdensome application process.1375You know, I am honestly shocked that they have gone in year1376after year, and now it is almost a joke, if you will, on is it1377going to be another year? How many years can I be denied in a1378row? It is figuring out how can we bring in federal dollars,1379partnering with some really good private partners that want to1380invest for similar goals and priorities, and then bringing in1381that technical assistance to help make this scalable with1382flexible programs.1383    Senator Durbin. What I heard from Mr. Doyle was that the1384producer has to make the decision early on to take land out of1385production in the near and short term, understanding in the1386long term there is real value to the operation. Mrs. Dwyer, are1387we dealing with the commitment being there to move forward, but1388just the lack of resources making it?1389    Mrs. Dwyer. Yes, it is a combination of things, and I think1390that for a state like Illinois, we need to be focused on what1391can we do for our working lands. It is going to be a really1392challenging sell to convince a farmer in central Illinois to1393take some of the most productive fertile ground out and put it1394into a program like a general CRP program that is going to1395remove that from production for 10 to 15 years. We need to look1396at how can we get practices like cover crops, strip-till, no-1397till to become the commonplace on those acres, and that is1398going to take the flexibility and innovative programs that we1399do not have today.1400    Senator Durbin. One of the things I thought about when we1401discuss conservation is obviously what we are sending down the1402Mississippi River to the Gulf of Mexico, or its new name. My1403question is, is there any measurement that you can rely on that1404suggests that we are doing the right thing in reducing runoff1405of soil and chemical runoff?1406    Mrs. Dwyer. Yes, we are making progress. I think the other1407thing to consider is we are not trying to make this progress in1408a bubble. We are seeing excessive rainfall. We are seeing1409bigger, more intensive rainfall events, and that makes those1410goalposts move. We need to be thinking as well on what are we1411doing in terms of the additional flow, and how can we1412incorporate technology and different practices to ensure that1413nutrient application is happening at the right time, at the1414right place, at the right rate.1415    I would say one thing that we have yet to discuss today is1416there are really no programs outside of--Minnesota has a great1417program and example on cost-sharing and helping with equipment.1418If farmers cannot access the very costly capital improvements1419on some of this precision technology, it is going to be really1420hard to help us to truly meet those goals.1421    Senator Durbin. Do you have any idea what our average1422productivity is in corn bushels per acre in Illinois?1423    Mrs. Dwyer. Well, we do have the highest yielding county in1424the country. We can claim that.1425    Senator Durbin. Which one is that?1426    Mrs. Dwyer. McLean.1427    Senator Durbin. That is what I thought. It has been that1428way for a long time.1429    Mrs. Dwyer. It has.1430    Senator Durbin. Do you have any idea what the production is1431in that acreage?1432    Mrs. Dwyer. We are well over 200 bushels.1433    Senator Durbin. Well over 200. You give reference here to1434peaking in 1950. The United States has lost nearly a quarter of1435its farmland, an average of 11,000 acres per day. Do you have1436any idea in previous years what the corn productivity was on1437any base acreage?1438    Mrs. Dwyer. Oh, we have grown exponentially. I mean, for my1439great-grandfather and my grandfather, you know, if they would1440have saw 100 bushels, they would not have known what to do. Now1441most of the farmers, especially in central Illinois, if they1442see something less than 230, they are probably disappointed. We1443have doubled and in some cases approaching tripling what that1444productivity has accomplished.1445    Senator Durbin. Do you believe there is still upside1446potential?1447    Mrs. Dwyer. I do.1448    Senator Durbin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1449    Chairman Boozman. Thank you. Senator Justice.1450    Senator Justice. Well, Mr. Chairman, thank you so much, and1451thank you all for being here. You know, it is really meaningful1452in my world for you to be here.1453    Now, let me just tell you this. I am an absolute soft-1454spoken but direct human being, you know? I have never wanted1455anything. I do not want anything for being here for me. With1456all that being said, I would tell you I am probably the most1457impatient guy in the room. I am the newest guy, you know?1458    Also, in regard to conservation, I would really surprise1459you by saying this, but there could be somebody in all these1460buildings here that have walked more miles in the woods or1461spent more time with a flyrod on a stream or absolutely1462followed and watched the discipline and the beauty of more1463birddogs than I.1464    You know, with all that being said, in addition to that, I1465have worked on constant conservation projects on all of our1466lands in multiple, multiple states and loved every minute of1467it.1468    Now, the thing that I do not understand is just this. You1469know, I have the good fortune of being on the Energy Committee1470and the good fortune of being on the Ag Committee. We are just1471surrounded by great people. That is all there is to it.1472    Here is the deal. If you are this impatient guy and you1473truly have done a lot, a lot, a lot of this work and you know1474just how much the conservation programs that we have been able1475to do help us as farmers, help us with our waters, help us with1476our soil erosion, help us with all the wildlife that we have1477been able to create and help in every way. With all that being1478said, it touches all of our souls, absolutely every single one1479of you.1480    The bottom line of the whole thing is just as simple to me.1481Someway, somehow, not only the world, but we, right here in1482these great buildings, we have got to someway, somehow realize1483that just in a very short order, we are going to be in an1484energy situation in this country that is not good. That is all1485there is to it. If we continue down the path of what we are1486doing with our farmers and ranchers, it is going to be a bad1487day.1488    With that being said, we are trying to get by constantly,1489constantly on funding a program with $1 when it needs $10. The1490magnitude of the $10 in the scope of everything that is going1491on here is nothing. It is just absolutely a gnat on a dinosaur.1492    Why cannot we just see--I mean, I have always approached1493things from a business guy's standpoint. You best better take1494care of the important items. Why cannot we just see that1495someway, somehow, we have got to have energy, and we have got1496to have food. With all that being said, why cannot we just take1497care of what we have to take care of?1498    You are doing unbelievable work. There are all kinds of1499folks here, especially this Chairman down here, who is really,1500really special, Leader Thune. Many, many people really special.1501    I could ask you 50 questions. I could ask you 5,0001502questions. You could absolutely--you have to know that I was1503there, I think, when the Conservation Reserve Program started.1504You know, I have seen it. I have seen the great work you do. I1505have seen how you do work with three parts to an 85,000-part1506puzzle, and you still do it. You should be really, really1507proud.1508    Someway, somehow, we have got to wake up. We have got to1509wake up all across the board because we have got to stand up1510for what we got to have. Every single country in this world, no1511matter how big or how small, every single country, the more1512energy they have, the longer their people live and the1513healthier they are. We are going to have a meltdown on energy1514without any question. If we do not watch out, we are going to1515have a meltdown on our ag side as well.1516    We have got to wake up. We have got to wake up, America.1517That is all there is to it. I will do everything I can, but I1518am absolutely--I am too impatient to not get frustrated. You1519know, we have got to have a farm bill, and we have got to have1520the proper funding for conservation.1521    Thank you.1522    Chairman Boozman. Thank you, Senator Justice. Senator1523Slotkin.1524    Senator Slotkin. Goodness, I saw my seniors come in here,1525and I thought I was bumped.1526    First of all, I am sorry to be asking these questions so1527close to you that I can almost spit on you. I am sorry.1528    [Laughter.]1529    Senator Slotkin. I have been trying to get out of the way1530so you can make eye contact with those asking you questions.1531Thank you for being here, all of you.1532    I live on my family farm in Holly, Michigan. We lease all1533the land now to a soybean farmer. I want to thank you for what1534you do. We are big believers in Michigan on the conservation1535programs and on incentivizing farmers, so carrots, not sticks1536on conservation work. I think it is a win-win for everybody.1537They are completely oversubscribed and underfunded. We want1538more, more, more in all of those programs. Our farmers are big1539believers in them.1540    My question is, you know, I had a farmers townhall maybe1541about three weeks ago now, and they were talking to me about1542the loss of some USDA staff. I know that about 2,4001543conservation staff have been relieved, and I am trying to get a1544sense of the impact. Anyone who wants to jump in. You know,1545farmers, as Senator Ernst said, they like to have the person1546they know to call and say what is happening, what is going on,1547and we are feeling like we are losing that. Can someone weigh1548in here on the impact?1549    Mr. Doyle. I can speak to the State of Arkansas. Thank you1550for asking the question. I serve on the American Soybean1551Association with some wonderful Michigan farmers, and I know--1552--1553    Senator Slotkin. Yes.1554    Mr. Doyle [continuing]. you all do great work. The programs1555are oversubscribed. I believe Fiscal Year 2023, 25 percent of1556the projects that were applied for were funded, so a very small1557amount. The money is tight.1558    In the State of Arkansas, as I mentioned earlier, on our1559project, we had great access to them. You know, my theory is1560that they are very good at what they do, but they are just a1561few years from retirement. I do not see that younger class or1562the ability of students who go and get their sole degrees at1563universities or agronomy as standing up to replace them, so1564that probably scares me more.1565    I think in Arkansas; the staffing issue is okay. There is1566talk about reduction.1567    Senator Slotkin. Yes.1568    Mr. Doyle. I am sure every county and state will be looked1569at and see if there needs to be changes.1570    Senator Slotkin. Yes. I got a little confused by my timing.1571Do I still have some timing left? The clock was doing some1572funky things. Am I okay? Okay. Sorry, guys.1573    The second question I have is on wetlands, okay? We are all1574supportive. Anyone in the conservation world cares about1575wetlands. We are big duck hunters in Michigan. We care about1576wetlands from a whole bunch of different angles, but a wet spot1577on a field is not a wetland. I say that as someone who has a1578proud wet spot in the field across the street from my house,1579which drives me absolutely crazy. It is not a wetland.1580    How do we get this right and conserve and protect what we1581need to protect but do not over-index to the point where a1582farmer is having to protect a wet spot in the field that has1583been there for 35 years? Anybody want to take a stab?1584    Mr. Doyle. If I may also----1585    Senator Slotkin. Well, let me----1586    Mr. Doyle. Yes, ma'am.1587    Senator Slotkin [continuing]. spread the love around here.1588    Sir, please go ahead.1589    Mr. Tjeerdsma. Thanks for the question, Senator. Coming1590from South Dakota, the Prairie Pothole Region----1591    [Laughter.]1592    Mr. Tjeerdsma [continuing]. we have a lot of similar1593issues. Although I think the problem is better solved or better1594addressed now than it has been in the past, I think what we1595need to look at is having NRCS do additional wetland1596determinations because you are exactly right. You know, there1597are farmable wetlands. It is a complicated process as far as1598the determinations. I think a redetermination of wetlands would1599probably be an order that I think would help solve that1600problem.1601    Senator Slotkin. Great. Thank you. I yield back.1602    Chairman Boozman. Senator Welch.1603    Senator Welch. You know, I just want to follow-up on that.1604If we are going to be re-looking at the wetlands, can we do1605that with a smaller rather than larger staff? Well, we cannot,1606right?1607    Yes, I mean, we are so, in Vermont, appreciative of the1608work that USDA has done. We are really concerned, as I think a1609lot of people are, and Senator Justice as well, about the1610staffing cuts because we had a staff aspirational level, and1611our actual numbers were a good deal below that. Now, since the1612buyouts and the DOGE cuts, it has really been significantly1613compromised.1614    My experience with the USDA in Vermont is it is really1615efficient. You know, actually, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member,1616what is so wonderful about it is, like, farmers trust you guys,1617and that trust is in short supply.1618    I guess you have been asked by others about the funding1619cuts, so I am not going to keep asking about it but just join1620my colleagues who are concerned about it and express my1621appreciation and admiration for the work that has been done.1622    With the loss of USDA, does anybody see a way forward where1623we can be successful doing the work that has to be done with1624significant reductions in staff? Mr. Blair, do you want to take1625a stab at that?1626    Mr. Blair. Yes, I would be glad to. Thank you, Senator1627Welch, for the question. We are concerned about it, but we are1628resilient, like all farmers and ranchers are. We feel like1629there is a way forward. We do need to keep our employees, as1630many as we can. We have lost employees through retirement and1631other programs. The terminations that occurred early on was key1632because those were a lot of upcoming new employees that had1633been trained and were well prepared for a long-term career in1634conservation----1635    Senator Welch. Yes, you know, let me interrupt you. That is1636right. I do not think any of us here are against looking at any1637program, kicking the tires, how can we do it better, where can1638we reduce, where do we need some more resources? My observation1639is that it was a situation where folks came in and had a goal,1640and then a lot of notices were sent out to people terminating1641them from their jobs. It was in advance of taking a look at1642what the function was, how do you do it, and how can you do it1643better. I think there is some damage that has been done as a1644result of the way in which it rolled out.1645    Let us say that after the dust settles and it is settling1646now, there is a conclusion that in a lot of our state programs1647we have to, in fact, re-resource. I mean, Mr. Ellis, can you1648just describe how we would proceed to do that?1649    Mr. Ellis. Yes, I mean, I think the key, Senator, is, you1650know, I am a half-glass-full type of person, right? I think it1651is about collaboration and partnerships, and we are going to1652have to rely on that to help our farmers and ranchers across to1653kind of reach some of that. I think a lot of this----1654    Senator Welch. Well, you know, I just want to be candid.1655You are all half-full. Probably you are full-full. You cannot1656be in agriculture without being half-full, right? I mean, you1657have to disregard experience and continue to hope and show up.1658God bless you that you do that. At a certain point you have got1659to get concrete. You know, if we have lost 10 or 15 or 201660percent of the staff and we still have the same job or more,1661how are we going to proceed?1662    I guess I cannot ask for an answer on that, but is that a1663shared concern that you have? How do we put this back together1664again?1665    All right. Thank you. I yield back.1666    Mr. Tjeerdsma. Senator?1667    Senator Welch. Yes.1668    Mr. Tjeerdsma. I would like to say one thing.1669    Senator Welch. Sure.1670    Mr. Tjeerdsma. When you talk about the staff shortage--I am1671here representing Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever.1672    Senator Welch. Right.1673    Mr. Tjeerdsma. My whole career in Washington we talked1674about years ago, and it is still even more vital now, how do we1675leverage private entities, private funds with federal?1676    Senator Welch. Right.1677    Mr. Tjeerdsma. I would like to use the example of Pheasants1678Forever, Quail Forever where we have the wildlife biologists.1679We have over 400 people, 370 or 80 I think that actually share1680with USDA. I think that is one path. We need to leverage1681private funds to help with the technical assistance and making1682sure we have money for the organizations that are doing that1683and even expand that so that we are not spending all federal1684dollars.1685    Senator Welch. Right. Well, that is interesting because, of1686course, that is a model that is used with our National Park1687Service and in some cases with good effect. We cannot transfer1688all of the burden to the private sector----1689    Mr. Tjeerdsma. Right.1690    Senator Welch [continuing]. and the philanthropic sector.1691    Mr. Tjeerdsma. I think if we leverage it----1692    Senator Welch. Yes.1693    Mr. Tjeerdsma [continuing]. and do it partially----1694    Senator Welch. Yes.1695    Mr. Tjeerdsma [continuing]. I think that would help.1696    Senator Welch. Thank you very much.1697    Mr. Tjeerdsma. Sure.1698    Chairman Boozman. Thank you. Have you got anything?1699    Senator Klobuchar. No.1700    Chairman Boozman. Very good. Well, thank you again to all1701of our witnesses and our Committee Members for their1702participation. As always, we appreciate my staff, Senator1703Klobuchar's staff for making these things happen.1704    The record will remain open for five business days. With1705that, today's hearing is adjourned.1706    [Whereupon, at 4:36 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]17071708=======================================================================17091710                            A P P E N D I X17111712                              May 13, 202517131714=======================================================================17151716=======================================================================17171718                         QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS17191720                              May 13, 202517211722=======================================================================