Hearings to examine the nominations of Laura Swett, of Virginia, and David LaCerte, of Louisiana, both to be a Member of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.

1[Senate Hearing 119-208]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                                                        S. Hrg. 119-20856                     SWETT AND LACERTE NOMINATIONS7=======================================================================89                                HEARING1011                              BEFORE THE1213                              COMMITTEE ON14                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES15                          UNITED STATES SENATE1617                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS1819                             FIRST SESSION2021                                   to2223 CONSIDER THE NOMINATIONS OF LAURA SWETT TO BE A MEMBER OF THE FEDERAL24 ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION AND DAVID LACERTE TO BE A MEMBER OF THE25                  FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION2627                               __________2829                           SEPTEMBER 4, 20253031                               __________3233                       Printed for the use of the34               Committee on Energy and Natural Resources3536[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3738        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov3940                                __________4142                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE4361-930                      WASHINGTON : 202644-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------4546               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES4748                        MIKE LEE, Utah, Chairman49JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico50JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon51STEVE DAINES, Montana                MARIA CANTWELL, Washington52TOM COTTON, Arkansas                 MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii53DAVID McCORMICK, Pennsylvania        ANGUS S. KING, Jr., Maine54JAMES C. JUSTICE, West Virginia      CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada55BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado56CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        ALEX PADILLA, California57LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska               RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona58JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota5960                  Wendy Baig, Majority Staff Director61            Patrick J. McCormick III, Majority Chief Counsel62                 Jasmine Hunt, Minority Staff Director63                 Sam E. Fowler, Minority Chief Counsel6465                            C O N T E N T S6667                              ----------6869                           OPENING STATEMENTS7071                                                                   Page72Lee, Hon. Mike, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Utah............     173Heinrich, Hon. Martin, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from74  New Mexico.....................................................     375Cassidy, Hon. Bill, a U.S. Senator from Louisiana................     47677                               WITNESSES7879Swett, Laura, nominated to be a member of the Federal Energy80  Regulatory Commission..........................................     881LaCerte, David, nominated to be a member of the Federal Energy82  Regulatory Commission..........................................    138384          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED8586American Cement Association et al.:87    Letter for the Record........................................    6588Cassidy, Hon Bill:89    Opening Statement............................................     490Earthjustice:91    Questions for consideration for nominees to the Federal92      Energy Regulatory Commission...............................    7093Heinrich, Hon. Martin:94    Opening Statement............................................     395LaCerte, David:96    Opening Statement............................................    1397    Written Testimony............................................    1598    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    5399Landry, Hon. Jeff, Governor of the State of Louisiana:100    Letter for the Record........................................     5101Lee, Hon. Mike:102    Opening Statement............................................     1103Natural Gas Council:104    Letter for the Record........................................    67105Swett, Laura:106    Opening Statement............................................     8107    Written Testimony............................................    11108    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    39109110                     SWETT AND LACERTE NOMINATIONS111112                              ----------113114                      THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 4, 2025115116                                       U.S. Senate,117                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,118                                                    Washington, DC.119    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m. in120Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Mike Lee,121Chairman of the Committee, presiding.122123              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE LEE,124                     U.S. SENATOR FROM UTAH125126    The Chairman. The Committee will come to order. Good127morning and welcome to everyone.128    Before I begin my opening statement, I want to let my129colleagues know basically how we are going to proceed today. I130also want to thank Senator Heinrich and his staff for working131with us on today's hearing, getting it scheduled and set up,132and thanks to all the Senators for your participation.133    Today is the Committee's ninth hearing on nominations for134the current administration. We are going to hear from two135nominees, two people who have been nominated to serve on the136Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, known as FERC--Laura137Swett and David LaCerte.138    I thank President Trump for sending both nominees over. The139Commission is what is known as an independent agency, one that140plays a critical role in America's energy dominance. As the141Supreme Court explains, FERC's mission is ``to encourage the142orderly development of plentiful supplies of electricity and143natural gas at reasonable prices.'' FERC accomplishes this144mission by overseeing the reliable interstate transmission of145electricity and transportation of natural gas and of oil. FERC146regulates wholesale power prices and reviews proposals for147major energy products, such as natural gas pipelines, LNG148terminals, and hydroelectric dams. FERC also protects the149reliability and security of the bulk power system. It enables150those it regulates to provide affordable, reliable energy to151millions, and must adopt policies that keep pace with today's152economy.153    We will meet those nominees and invite each one of them to154give an opening statement and introduce family and friends here155in a moment. Our first nominee today is Laura Swett. Ms. Swett156currently works as an energy and litigation counsel at the law157firm of Vinson and Elkins, where her principal area of practice158is federal energy regulatory litigation. She represents159pipelines and other regulated entities before the Commission.160She previously served as senior legal and policy advisor to161then FERC Chairman Kevin McIntyre and Commissioner Bernard162McNamee. Before that, she was a lawyer in the FERC Office of163Enforcement, where she led and supported investigations.164    Second, we will hear from David LaCerte. Mr. LaCerte165recently returned to his position as special counsel with the166law firm of Baker Botts, where he focused on energy litigation167and environmental safety and incident response. Earlier this168year, he served as principal advisor to the Director of the169U.S. Office of Personnel Management, where he also served in170the Trump administration in the first go-around. He continues171to serve there as an unpaid special government employee. Mr.172LaCerte previously served as Executive Counsel to the Chairman173of the U.S. Chemical Safety Board, overseeing the Agency's174response to major chemical incidents nationwide. Mr. LaCerte175also held several key leadership roles within the Louisiana176state government, including Secretary of the Louisiana177Department of Veterans' Affairs. A combat veteran of the United178States Marine Corps, Mr. LaCerte served as an infantryman with179the First Battalion, First Marine Division.180    So welcome to both of our nominees. Let's begin. I will now181turn to my opening remarks.182    The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission holds enormous183influence over America's ability to power its homes and to fuel184its industries, and thereby indirectly strengthening American185national security. When it functions well, families see186affordable bills, communities see investment, and businesses187are more able to grow. When it fails, the consequences are felt188in every corner of the country, in every economic way189imaginable. Under the Biden administration, FERC was too often190steered in a direction that was harmful, and that harmed191hardworking Americans. Costs rose----192    [Protester interrupts.]193    The Chairman [continuing]. Infrastructure projects194languished in regulatory limbo. Vital pipelines and terminals195were delayed or denied, while demand for reliable power only196continued steadily to increase. The record left the nation more197vulnerable to energy scarcity and more dependent on foreign198suppliers. The task before today's nominees is to help reverse199that course. If confirmed, Ms. Swett and Mr. LaCerte will be200charged with ensuring FERC applies the law as written, not as201reimagined by regulators. They will need to evaluate the202policies that have been put in place by the previous203administration and roll back those that drove up costs, stifled204innovation, or weakened the resilience of our grid. Both205nominees will bring with them valuable experience that can206serve FERC well. Ms. Swett spent years working directly with207FERC--at FERC--giving her an inside understanding of how the208agency operates. And Mr. LaCerte has held leadership roles at209both the state and federal levels, bringing the perspective of210a combat veteran who has led under great pressure. These are211qualities that, if applied, can help ensure FERC has the proper212focus, providing affordable and reliable energy for the213American people.214    The stakes in this really couldn't be higher. Americans215deserve a Commission that takes seriously and sticks to this216focus on a mission to encourage the orderly development of217plentiful supplies of electricity and natural gas at reasonable218prices. That mission determines whether families can afford219their homes, to heat their homes in the winter weather, or220military bases will have the power that they need to operate,221and whether our economy will have a foundation for sustained222growth. This hearing brings an opportunity for both nominees to223make clear how they will approach these responsibilities. We224need to know how they view the ongoing legal debate about the225status of so-called independent agencies and what that means226for accountability to the law and to the American people, what227they see as FERC's most important statutory responsibility in228today's rapidly changing energy landscape, and what their top229priorities might be in overseeing the natural gas and energy230sectors, given those sectors' central importance to the U.S.231economy, especially now. This Committee has a responsibility to232hold nominees to that standard, and FERC is too important to233American life to be paralyzed by delay or distracted from its234core mission. It must focus squarely on the law, on235reliability, and on the needs of the American people.236    I thank both witnesses--both nominees--for being here237today, and for their willingness to serve. I look forward to a238candid conversation about how they would take on this239responsibility at such a critical moment for our nation's240energy future.241    I will now turn to our Ranking Member, Senator Heinrich,242for his opening statement.243244          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARTIN HEINRICH,245                  U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO246247    Senator Heinrich. Thank you Chairman, and welcome to Ms.248Swett and Mr. LaCerte.249    Most of the offices under our Committee's jurisdiction do250not have statutorily required qualifications. The Federal251Energy Regulatory Commission is, however, an exception. The DOE252Organization Act requires that members of the Commission be253``individuals who, by demonstrated ability, background,254training, or experience, are specially qualified to assess255fairly the needs and concerns of all interests affected by256federal energy policy.'' The reason for this distinction is257simple: much of the Commission's work is quasi-judicial. Like258our courts, FERC must be impartial and non-partisan. Office and259bureau heads, deputy secretaries, assistant secretaries in both260the Interior and Energy Departments may take their lead from261their secretaries, and their secretaries from their president.262Commission members do not.263    The Commission was established as an independent regulatory264commission whose members serve fixed terms, not at the pleasure265of the president. And their performance of the Commission's266functions is not subject to the supervision or direction of the267administration. The Commission was designed to serve no268president, no political party, and no political agenda. Its job269is to serve the public interest fairly and impartially, guided270by our laws and the Constitution, not by political whims from271the White House. The independence of our independent public272institutions, from the Federal Reserve to the Smithsonian273Institution is under attack by this administration, and274destroying the independence of the Federal Energy Regulatory275Commission would do irreparable damage to public confidence in276the Commission's decision-making, to regulatory stability, and277to our energy security. Consequently, our job this morning is278not only to understand Ms. Swett's and Mr. LaCerte's ability to279assess fairly the needs and concerns of all interests affected280by federal energy policy, but also to assess their commitment281to FERC's independence.282    The Chairman. Thank you so much, Senator Heinrich.283    We will now turn to our colleague from Louisiana, Senator284Cassidy, to introduce David LaCerte.285286            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BILL CASSIDY,287                  U.S. SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA288289    Senator Cassidy. It is my privilege to do so, and before I290begin, I will introduce a letter from my Governor, who is291supporting Mr. LaCerte's nomination.292    The Chairman. That will be admitted into the record,293without objection.294    [The letter referred to follows:]295    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]296297    Senator Cassidy. Thank you all.298    Thank you, Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich, and299fellow Committee members. I have the privilege of introducing300David as a nominee for Commissioner of the Federal Energy301Regulatory Commission. He is a lot of things--a combat veteran302of the Marine Corps, an attorney, a true conservative, Emily's303husband, and father to four kids, who are truant today--not304going to school--but they are all behind him. He attended law305school at LSU before going on to become a highly successful306attorney working in energy litigation, practiced privately at307Sternberg, Naccari and White in New Orleans before serving as308Special Counsel at Baker Botts, advising clients in the energy309sector on some of the most complex challenges facing the energy310industry today.311    After rising through the ranks with the Louisiana312Department of Veterans Affairs, he was appointed to serve in313various federal positions, including most recently as White314House Liaison and Senior Advisor to the Director of the U.S.315Office for Personnel Management, where he continues to offer316counsel. Prior to that, he served a term appointment at the317U.S. Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board, where he318oversaw the agency's response to major chemical incidents319nationwide. That gave him hands-on experience with energy320infrastructure and safety at the national level, invaluable for321a FERC Commissioner.322    David's firsthand exposure to Louisiana's energy economy,323which is based firmly upon petrochemicals, combined with his324legal and regulatory experience, gives him an intuitive325understanding of the challenges and opportunities facing the326LNG industry. David knows liquefied natural gas. Louisiana327knows liquefied natural gas. And he understands how to move328projects forward while protecting workers, communities,329taxpayers, and the environment. He knows what's at stake, and330how to get results. President Trump is unleashing American331energy. David LaCerte is a FERC Commissioner who can help him332do so.333    Thank you for once more answering the call to the American334people and thank you to your family for supporting you as they335do.336    Thank you. With that, I yield.337    The Chairman. Thank you so much, Senator Cassidy.338    Okay, the rules of the Committee require that all nominees339be sworn in connection with their testimony. If you would, both340please stand and raise your right hand.341    Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that you are about342to give before the Committee will be the truth, the whole343truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?344    [Witnesses sworn.]345    The Chairman. Thank you. The record will reflect that both346nominees answered in the affirmative.347    You may be seated.348    Before you begin your opening statements, I am going to ask349the nominees three questions that we pose to all of the350nominees that come before this Committee. You can just signify351by saying yes or no. You don't have to stand for this part.352    First, will you be available to appear before this353Committee and other congressional committees to represent the354Commission's positions and respond to issues of concern to355Congress?356    Mr. LaCerte. Yes.357    Ms. Swett. Yes.358    The Chairman. Second, are you aware of any personal359holdings, investments, or interests that could constitute a360conflict of interest, or create the appearance of such361conflict, should you be confirmed and assume the office to362which you have been nominated by the President of the United363States?364    Mr. LaCerte. No.365    Ms. Swett. No.366    The Chairman. And third, are you involved in or do you have367any assets in a blind trust?368    Ms. Swett. No.369    Mr. LaCerte. No.370    The Chairman. Okay. The record will reflect that both371witnesses answered in the affirmative to the first question,372and in the negative to the second and third questions. And373incidentally, those are the correct answers. You both scored374100 percent there.375    As I turn to the two witnesses, I will invite each, as he376or she may prefer, to introduce any friends or family members377who are here with you today.378    Ms. Swett, we will start with you and then we will proceed379to Mr. LaCerte after that. Go ahead, Ms. Swett.380381   STATEMENT OF LAURA SWETT, NOMINATED TO BE A MEMBER OF THE382              FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION383384    Good morning, Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich, and385distinguished members of the Committee. I am grateful to appear386before you today and for your considering my nomination to be a387Commissioner at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. I am388deeply honored that the President nominated me for this role389and I am grateful to the members of the Committee who390graciously met with me before today.391    I would not be here without the support of many incredible392people, including those who are behind me. My mother and393father, Jackie and Charles Swett; My husband, John, who has394steadfastly supported my goals, and who fathered our two395beautiful children--a conscientious kindergartener and a fiery396baby girl; my sister, who happens to be one of the many397talented, dedicated civil servants who works at FERC; and398incredible mentors who have given me both great opportunity and399unwavering guidance are also here today.400    My grandmother lived destitute in the Mekong River Delta of401Vietnam. My mother escaped the violent oppression of communism402and fled to the safety of our great country. Her family arrived403here in 1974 with nothing. My father grew up in a low-income404New York City housing project in the 1950s. He dedicated over40540 years to serving the people of this country as a civilian at406the Pentagon, but not before he was a TSA agent at JFK airport407in the 70s, if you can imagine. His dedication to the United408States inspired me to enter civil service myself. I served two409stints at FERC, first during law school as an unpaid extern,410and second as a young lawyer in the Office of Enforcement and411as an advisor to a former Chairman and Commissioner.412    My parents both clawed tooth and nail for every opportunity413they ever had. They raised me and my sister with the hope of a414better life and with a profound love of America. That I am415before you today is the realization of the American dream--for416them, for the generations of ancestors behind them, and the417sacrifices that all of them made to get me here today. Given418this background, I am so eternally grateful for your time and419consideration.420    My passion for energy began when I was about five years421old. Shortly after my parents bought a standalone house, they422generously began to shelter other Vietnamese refugees who423sought the promise of a better life in America. At that point,424all I had known of Vietnam was pictures of a war-torn country425and villagers in rice paddies. On those refugees' first426evenings on U.S. soil, in my parents' basement, at dusk, I427turned on all the lights, the TV, and brought all of my428whirring electric toys. At their great delight, I wholly429believed in my five-year-old heart that I performed magic for430them at my command of power. I treasured electricity from that431point on. From that tender age, and reinforced by my mother432throughout adulthood, I have appreciated deep in my bones how433lucky we are in this country to have reliable energy and434everything that enables. How lucky we are to power our435hospitals and schools, to air condition our houses, and even to436have hot showers. I actually think about that every day. This437is why FERC's mission, as created and empowered by Congress,438has been my work for the past 15 years, and will continue to be439for the rest of my life in whatever form that comes.440    Sitting before you is the pinnacle of my career,441particularly after working for years myself as a FERC civil442servant. In my mind, the role of each FERC Commissioner is not443only to vote on specific orders, but it is as a steward of this444country's economic present and future and an advocate for the445hundreds of millions of Americans who are impacted by FERC446jurisdiction. If I have the honor of being confirmed, I will do447everything in my power to honor the law and the facts of every448single matter before me, squarely within the confines of the449laws that you, Congress, granted FERC. And within these450confines, I would prioritize three core goals for our country,451based on my independent experience. Our country is also at a452historic crossroads, and these goals are more important than453ever:454    One, we must keep the lights on and the pipelines that are455the pillars of our economy flowing at just and reasonable456rates.457    Two, we must preserve national and economic security by458doing everything within FERC's power to buttress the AI459revolution and facilitate the connection of large load and data460centers, so that data centers are not forced to build in other461countries, making every American vulnerable to foreign462adversaries.463    Three, we must maximize FERC's ability to encourage and464facilitate infrastructure development. This development has465faced crippling regulatory uncertainty over the recent past,466the well functioning and increase of which is critical to467reliability, safety, and our economy.468    After working alongside the mission-driven, hardworking men469and women of FERC, and representing electric utilities and oil470and gas pipelines, I now know that energy is not the magic I471believed it to be when I was young. Now I know that energy, the472backbone of our great nation, flows day in and day out from the473dedication and toiling of thousands of men and women across474America and in FERC itself. Those men and women keep the lights475on, enable us to heat and cool our homes, and are the reasons476that our planes fly, our trains run, and that we enjoy many477modern comforts. I truly appreciate the honor bestowed upon me478of being in front of you here today, and thank you so much for479your time and consideration.480    [The prepared statement of Ms. Swett follows:]481    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]482483    The Chairman. Thank you so much, Ms. Swett.484    Mr. LaCerte, you may begin.485486  STATEMENT OF DAVID LACERTE, NOMINATED TO BE A MEMBER OF THE487              FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION488489    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Chairman Lee, Ranking Member490Heinrich, and members of the Committee. I am especially491thankful for the kind words from Senator Cassidy, and I would492like to thank him for his distinguished service as a champion493for the people of Louisiana.494    It is an honor to appear before you today. I humbly come495before you as President Trump's nominee for Commissioner of the496Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. I would first like to497recognize some of the core figures in my life. Without their498support, this nomination would have never been possible. First,499I would like to acknowledge my wife, Emily. She is uniquely500special in so many ways. She forever inspires me with her501kindness, her wisdom, and most of all her passion for life. She502encourages me to continue my public service, and I would most503certainly not be here today without her positive influence. I504want to thank my children and my stepchildren who are with me505today, Ava, Margaret, Louisiana, and Robert. Special506recognition goes to their schools in Baton Rouge--St. Jude the507Apostle and our Lady of Mercy--who have prepared my children508with just the right amount of Catholic Mass to prepare them for509today. Every day over the past eight months I have fought to510make America a better place to live, to work, to raise a511family, and to prosper. We do this not only for my children but512for everyone's children, and for their generations to come. I513want to directly acknowledge the burden carried by the families514of our public servants. These burdens are profound, and the515patience and grace given to me by my children carries me516through the demanding days of life as an appointee.517    Thank you to my parents, Steve and Carol, who are watching518at home, and raised me up until the day they handed me off to519Uncle Sam. Thank you to those present and watching at home who520have fought alongside me in the United States Marine Corps. The521Marine Corps and our shared ethos have made me into the man522that stands before you today. Thank you to those currently523serving, and especially those who gave their last full measure524of devotion to their country and never made it home. You are a525guiding light in my life and it's my honor to carry your526legacy.527    I have been a public servant for most of my career and I528have sworn an oath to the Constitution on many occasions. I529have led infantry Marines in the invasion and occupation of530Afghanistan. I have led state and federal agencies, including531an independent agency under both the Trump and Biden532administrations. I have practiced law at one of the oldest and533most respected energy law firms in the country. These unique534experiences have afforded me an understanding of the535intersections of government and industry that has left me well-536prepared for the role in which I am considered today before537this honorable Committee.538    Today, FERC is at a historic crossroads. The demand for539energy is growing, and the infrastructure which has allowed540this country to thrive for so many decades needs continued541improvement and investment. The challenge of increasing the542reliability and resiliency of our grid while simultaneously543protecting our ratepayers has never been a more important544balance. It's a foundation that is built brick by brick, and545decision by decision. Artificial Intelligence, data centers,546and reindustrialization present a compounding of these issues,547which will require diligent planning, forecasting, and548regulatory oversight from both the states as well as FERC. This549is a challenge that must be met and cannot be delayed. The550administrative burden placed upon those who seek to invest in551our infrastructure is staggering. Delays in federal reviews and552decision-making make energy less reliable and more expensive.553Reducing processing time and the associated administrative554burden will speed projects along, allowing those cost savings555to be passed to ratepayers.556    I believe my background as a government executive and my557experience as an environmental attorney provide strong558qualifications and a fresh perspective on these issues559challenging FERC. The outstanding career staff at FERC cannot560do this alone. As the Committee has noted, FERC is most561functional with a fully seated board of complementary562Commissioners, prepared to work together, along with563stakeholders, to develop solutions for the problems of today564and tomorrow. Once again, Chairman Lee, Ranking Member565Heinrich, and members of the Committee, I appreciate the566opportunity to appear before you, and I look forward to your567questions.568    [The prepared statement of Mr. LaCerte follows:]569   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]570571    The Chairman. Thanks so much to both of you.572    We will now start five-minute rounds of questions,573alternating between Republicans and Democrats. I will go first,574then Senator Heinrich, and then alternating between Republicans575and Democrats in order of seniority, subject to the early576arrival rule.577    Mr. LaCerte, let's start with you. One might observe that578you haven't had direct experience at the Federal Energy579Regulatory Commission, but you do bring to the table a wealth580of personal and professional experience to the role. Tell me581and the Committee how your background has prepared you well to582serve as a FERC Commissioner, and how your perspective is583something that can benefit the Commission's work on behalf of584the American people?585    Mr. LaCerte. Senator, thank you for that question. I586appreciate the opportunity to answer it.587    I know you have all heard my paper resume. I have worked at588an independent agency before that is bipartisan in nature with589both Republicans and Democrats. I have practiced as an attorney590at an energy law firm. I think that the most important591qualification I have is that I can bring a common-sense592approach to get problems solved and get things done, and I have593proven that to the President of the United States. I have an594outstanding set of experiences in safety, in cyber, and in a595multitude of issues that help FERC. At the end of the day, I596think that we can bring a common-sense approach to FERC, to597work together with the fellow commissioners to kind of have a598return to the baseline statutes and make energy more affordable599and more reliable.600    The Chairman. Thank you.601    I am going to ask both of you this next question. There is602currently litigation moving through the federal courts603challenging the result in a case called Humphrey's Executor.604That case, of course, addressed the question of the President's605authority to remove a member of a so-called independent agency,606to remove somebody in one of those positions from an office607before the end of a statutorily defined term. We will start608with you, Mr. LaCerte, and then go to Ms. Swett.609    Mr. LaCerte, what is your view on the issue, and how might610that impact your performance or your perspective as a611commissioner, should you be confirmed?612    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator. I am aware of the trend in613cases from Humphrey's Executor. First, I would like to say, we614are always going to follow the law, if I am confirmed as a FERC615Commissioner, but I personally would welcome a modification on616Humphrey's Executor. If the Supreme Court rules in that617direction, we will follow the law. Every day that I get to618serve the American people and the American public is a gift. I619appreciate that every day. I go to work every day and I give my620best effort, 100 percent, until my service is no longer needed,621or until the good Lord calls me home, and I am going to622continue to do that, if confirmed.623    The Chairman. Semper Fi.624    Ms. Swett.625    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.626    I share my potential colleague's views that it would be a627true honor to be confirmed to serve on the Federal Energy628Regulatory Commission. And of course, I will follow the law and629honor the law in everything that I do and consider the merits630of every single issue, the law, and the facts before me,631irrespective of where the litigation comes out in the length of632my term. Thank you.633    The Chairman. And Ms. Swett, what would be your top634priority as a commissioner while regulating the natural gas and635energy sectors? You know, the energy commodities that are636subject to FERC's jurisdiction represent between three and six637percent of U.S. GDP, and core inputs of that energy--those638inputs end up having a multiplier effect on the economy. So,639with that in mind, what would be your top priority, if640confirmed as a FERC Commissioner, when regulating natural gas641and electricity?642    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.643    I agree with you. FERC's mission is more important than644ever, given its impact on the economy and the unprecedented,645historic load growth and demand and also resource adequacy646issues facing our country. If I have the honor of being647confirmed, I will always go back to the statute that Congress648has authorized, and that is encouraging the orderly development649of plentiful supplies of electricity and natural gas at650reasonable prices for American consumers. And hand-in-hand with651that is FERC's mission of ensuring that the lights are on. We652have to ensure that our grid is stable and that all Americans653have access to electricity that is reliable.654    The Chairman. Sound objectives and very consistent with655FERC's statutory mandate. What do you see as some of the most656significant impediments to achieving those outcomes?657    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator. The658increasing load that we are facing today, particularly given659the AI revolution in our country, which is integral to national660security and our economic stability, makes reliability more661important than ever. And FERC has dealt with those issues, and662so have the states, and it's squarely within the crosshairs of663jurisdiction of federalism. And so, that is something that we664must navigate very thoughtfully, very carefully, and very665specific to each instance in which it arises in front of FERC.666    The Chairman. Great.667    Thank you very much. My time has expired. I will turn the668time over to Senator Martin Heinrich.669    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.670    Earlier this year, President Trump signed an executive671order asserting to give the White House greater control over672independent agencies. As both of you know, FERC is a673statutorily independent agency with a very clearly defined674mandate. Ms. Swett, let me start with you. Can you tell me why675maintaining FERC's independence is so critical?676    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.677    Maintaining FERC's independence is critical because that is678exactly how Congress created the agency. In the DOE679Organization Act of 1977, Congress carved FERC out of DOE's680jurisdiction and explicitly provides that no FERC action is681under review by anyone at DOE. And thus, as a lawyer who has682been practicing FERC law for 15 years, I will always go back to683the statute, and that is exactly what Congress directed, and I684will not exceed the jurisdiction that Congress has given the685agency, if I am confirmed.686    Senator Heinrich. Mr. LaCerte, same question.687    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator, for the question.688    First, I want to say, I certainly am no stranger to the689value of the assertion of independence at independent agencies,690having spent time at the CSB as the acting managing director,691acting general counsel, the executive council, and the senior692advisor to the chairman. I am very familiar with navigating693independent agencies. And I think the independence of FERC is694derived from its individual structure via the commissioners.695Those five individuals have independent voice, and it's696important that we nominate people and confirm people that honor697that independence and follow the law and apply the facts.698    Senator Heinrich. According to EIA data, despite all that699we have heard about affordability today, household electric700bills are up 10 percent nationally since the beginning of this701administration--in less than a year, actually, a double-digit702increase in electric bills. Former Republican FERC Chairman703Chatterjee has said that we need every single available704electron on the grid. Both of you have referenced the increased705demand as a result of data centers and artificial intelligence.706Would you agree that in the face of incredible rising demand,707probably the greatest demand increase we have seen since the708onset of air conditioning, that the grid right now requires709more, not less affordable and reliable energy?710    Ms. Swett.711    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator. I712absolutely agree with you that the grid needs more generation,713and more reliable generation, and that we should do whatever we714can to ensure that the lights are on. That said, under the715Federal Power Act, Congress has explicitly stated that FERC's716mission is to ensure that there is no undue discrimination in717the rates that are charged pursuant to its jurisdiction, and I718agree with that, of course, per Congress's wisdom. And if I719have the honor of being confirmed, I will honor that in every720matter that I examine.721    Senator Heinrich. Let's take that one step deeper down.722Right now, and for the next several years, actually, probably723for at least the next four, 95 percent of the projects slated724to come onto the grid to serve that demand are represented by725wind, solar, and battery storage. We don't have--when you look726at other generation sources, if they aren't already in the727queue, things like combined-cycle natural gas has a five-year728waiting period for combined-cycle natural gas turbines.729Nuclear, obviously, has permitting challenges that, oftentimes,730it takes ten years to get nuclear generation built.731    What would the impact be if we, without replacement732generation, took that 95 percent out of the pipeline of733oncoming generation?734    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.735    As a humble lawyer who is not an economist or a scientist,736I am not going to try to guess what the impact of taking that737huge amount out of the queue would be. However, it is738incredibly important that we thoughtfully ensure that as much739generation is available as is necessary to meet the740unprecedented demand that our country is facing that will rise741with every passing year. So I commit to you that if I have the742honor of being confirmed, I will take a hard look at the743matters before me, including interconnection, which I744understand is under challenge in several federal courts at this745time. So I don't want to prejudge anything, but if it comes746before me and I am confirmed, then I will do everything I can747to work with my colleagues to come to a solution.748    Senator Heinrich. I am not an economist, but as the son of749a lineman, I can tell you that if we took that generation off,750out of the pipeline, we would see incredible increasing costs.751And that's why I think everyone at this dais is incredibly752concerned about that.753    Mr. LaCerte, can you commit to maintaining FERC's754independence and commit that a generator's technology, which755traditionally has not been considered when making756interconnection decisions and permitting decisions, that FERC757will maintain its agnostic approach to generation?758    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you for the question, Senator.759    As my potential colleague Laura has noted, under the law we760must remain neutral as it relates to such decisions, and we761will always follow the law.762    Senator Heinrich. Mr. LaCerte, the baseline statute--I763think that was the word you used--the baseline statute for FERC764requires that ``the Chairman and members of the Commission765shall be individuals who, by demonstrated ability, background,766training, or experience, are specially qualified to assess767fairly the needs and concerns of all interests affected by768federal energy policy.'' Do I understand it that you have not769represented clients before the FERC?770    Mr. LaCerte. Correct, I have not represented clients before771FERC, Senator, and I believe that that is a strength of mine772and not a negative. As former Chairman Christie has noted in773his swan song departing this Commission, there is a real fear774of regulatory capture of FERC. So, I think a fresh perspective775and a common-sense approach amongst one of the five members776would be a welcome addition.777    Senator Heinrich. So you have never signed any pleading on778a client's behalf with FERC on any matter?779    Mr. LaCerte. Correct.780    Senator Heinrich. Describe to me the energy work that you781have done at your firm.782    Mr. LaCerte. Sure. Most of my work is done under the Clean783Air Act, predominantly from a focus of safety and environment.784I was housed within the energy litigation section of Baker785Botts, which is one of the preeminent law firms in Texas that786practice energy law. Within the energy litigation group there787is an environmental safety and incident response section, and788that would run the gamut all the way up and down the stream of789energy, all the way from well heads to refineries,790transportation and pipelines, which is a crossover from my time791and jurisdiction on the Chemical Safety Board, all the way to792specialty chemical refining.793    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.794    The Chairman. Senator Barrasso.795    Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman.796    For both of you, congratulations, welcome to the Committee.797And now, this is a Committee that gets work done. Last year, we798passed permitting legislation 15 to 4--bipartisan, because for799a long, long time, we all agreed that environmental permitting800requirements have delayed and halted needed infrastructure801projects for our country to make sure that we have the energy802and the ability to transmit that energy. Part of this is803pipelines.804    So, Ms. Swett, even the courts have realized that this is805out of control. The Supreme Court, as we have discussed, this806year issued an 8 to 0 ruling that determined that reviews have807become unreasonably burdensome. In the Seven County decision,808Justice Kavanaugh wrote that the National Environmental Policy809Act (NEPA) ``is a procedural cross-check, not a substantive810roadblock.'' But it has turned into a roadblock, and so the811Supreme Court agreed eight to nothing. He continued, ``the goal812of the law is to inform agency decision-making, not to paralyze813it.''814    So, how do you believe this decision is going to impact how815FERC reviews projects?816    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.817    As someone who has been part of the NEPA process for many818applications in front of FERC, I share your sentiments that the819regulatory process can be difficult to navigate and also820creates quite a bit of uncertainty for infrastructure821developers who invest billions of dollars into securing our822nation's energy future. I see Seven County as significantly823narrowing the scope of environmental review required under824NEPA, and now it's more clear what FERC is required to do in825examining the projects before it under the procedural statutes826of NEPA. I am confident that we, if I have the honor of being827confirmed, that with my colleagues, we should be able to take a828hard look at FERC's processes to see what efficiencies are829available to see what we can make more transparent for the830industry and to the benefit of the American people.831    Senator Barrasso. Thank you.832    Mr. LaCerte, we talked about FERC being not really widely833known about outside Washington, DC, but the Commission's834actions have a really big impact on the lives of Americans all835across the country. The decisions that the Commission makes836determine whether the lights reliably go on when people flip837the switch. So please provide us your views of FERC's role in838ensuring reliability and affordability of energy.839    Mr. LaCerte. Absolutely, Senator. I welcome that question840and thank you for discussing it with me.841    Reliability and affordability are the bedrock of FERC's842work. So, if confirmed, I will be certain to follow the law,843but I would ask two questions of every single action in which844we undertake at FERC as Commissioner: does this make our grid845and energy structure more reliable, and the second question we846would ask is, does this make our grid and infrastructure more847affordable? And if the answer to those questions is no, then848ask why we are doing it and why we are undertaking those849things. So, it is a fundamental balance of we need850affordability and reliability that impacts every aspect of our851entire industry within our country. As Senator Lee said, you852know, it's such a large percentage of our GDP. It's important853that outside of FERC those impacts are recognized, and those854perspectives are welcome.855    Senator Barrasso. And Ms. Swett, you know, we have had856years of stagnant electric demand, but that has really changed857because we are expecting a rapid growth with AI, with data858centers, electrification. As I pointed out to this Committee in859the past, that peak demand in the summer is expected, five860years from now, because of all these things, to actually861increase as if adding an entire new California to the grid,862even to the point that the New York Times had that as a front-863page story. The demand is growing. Clearly, FERC is going to864play a vital part in managing and helping with this growth. Can865you share your views on the importance of meeting the demand866growth and FERC's role in supporting that effort?867    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.868    I actually have lost sleep a few nights worrying about how869our country will meet the demand that it faces, and if I had870the honor of being confirmed, I would do everything I can,871within the powers clearly drawn by Congress for the agency, and872that is to ensure that there is a plentiful supply of energy at873just and reasonable rates and taking a hard look at the merits874of every single matter before me, including the specific875geographic market characteristics of each matter, which are876extremely different depending on what market they are, the type877of company that's in front of the Commission, and also how it878interconnects to the grid. I would weigh all of those to ensure879that FERC is mindfully encouraging connection and development880of whatever it can.881    Senator Barrasso. Okay.882    Mr. Chairman, my time is expired. Thank you very much.883Congratulations.884    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.885    Senator King, you are up next.886    Senator King. Thank you very much.887    Mr. LaCerte, I am a little confused. Senator Lee asked you888the question about the Humphrey's Executor decision, and you889seemed to indicate that you felt that the President would--and890should--have the power to fire a FERC Commissioner. Is that891your position?892    Mr. LaCerte. No. Senator, thank you for the question. My893position is that we will follow the law, and if the Supreme894Court of the highest court in the land changes that law, then895we will follow that, too.896    Senator King. Well, it's hard for me to imagine how the897President having the power to fire Commissioners could--how you898could still call the Commission independent. That, to me, is an899ultimate compromise.900    Let's talk about the central reality that we're facing901today, which has been mentioned several times, and that is the902incredible increase of demand of electricity. The Chairman, in903the last hearing that we had, indicated some data that we are904looking at a two percent per-year increase in demand. Over ten905years compounded, that's 30 percent. That's a staggering906increase. The question is--there are two issues--one is the907power availability, and the second is time--how soon can it908come?909    Ms. Swett, what is the cheapest form of electricity910generation today in the country?911    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.912    I have not looked into that issue, but I am happy to look913into it and answer any questions.914    Senator King. Well, I'll help you--it's wind and solar, by915a mile, by a factor of two. The fellow who left here under916difficult circumstances actually was correct. The cheapest917forms of energy today are wind and solar by a longshot.918    Do you know--let's take a case study--Iowa. Any idea how919much wind power supplies to the economy of the electricity920supply of Iowa?921    Ms. Swett. No, sir, I don't know the specific number.922    Senator King. Sixty percent. Iowa has the 15th lowest923electricity cost in the country, and in the past year, as we924have already learned, average electricity prices across the925county have gone up between six and ten percent. In Iowa, it926has actually gone down a half a percent. The point is, you both927have talked about being agnostic. I hope you will hold to that928because we can't ignore the reality around us that this929administration is extremely hostile--and that's a mild term--to930renewable energy. And yet, and the second point, as I talked931about price, is speed. There is no question that wind and solar932are the quickest to deploy. Senator Heinrich mentioned if you933wanted a new gas turbine plant today, it would be about seven934years between permitting and the fact that there is a five-year935wait time for a turbine. A major solar project can go online in936a year/year-and-a-half. So, I just hope that you all will be937true to your word today and not follow what amounts to an938ideology that says we can't have wind and solar.939    Mr. LaCerte, will you commit to being agnostic as to energy940sources and focus entirely on reliability, cost, and941availability?942    Mr. LaCerte. Senator, the Federal Power Act requires that a943Commissioner be neutral in those decisions, and I commit to944following the law.945    Senator King. And I want to emphasize, again, speed is an946issue here. This demand growth that we are seeing is going to947be taking place in the next two, three, four, five, six years.948We don't have two, three, four, five, six years to somehow949conjure electrons out of the sky. Actually, we can conjure them950out of the sky if we are talking about solar power.951    So, the second issue--we were talking about supply--is the952grid. The grid is not prepared for this increase in demand. And953one of the concerns I have is that the cost of expanding the954grid to meet this demand is going to be gigantic. And we have955to be sure that the expansion of the grid is done in a cost-956effective way, and that's where FERC comes in, and that's where957what I call GETs--grid-enhancing technologies--come in.958    Ms. Swett, talk to me about utilizing grid-enhancing959technologies as opposed to simply building in the old way and960adding this cost to the consumers.961    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.962    I fully share your sentiment that we should be maximizing963the resources that we already have, including the existing964grid. And as someone who has represented transmission owners in965the past, I understand the technology behind that and the966potential benefits that can be realized from GETs, so----967    Senator King. But you also understand, if you have done968that kind of representation, that the incentive to the969transmission owner is to build, not do the low-cost, no-cost970improvements. And therefore, I think FERC has to think about971how do we incentivize the adoption of these technologies,972because letting the market play as it normally would, the973transmission owner has the incentive to actually build rather974than make the grid more efficient. So I hope you will bear that975in mind.976    Ms. Swett. Thank you, Senator. Yes, I understand that977transmission incentives have been heavily litigated at FERC,978and FERC has been facing those very difficult issues for many979years. And I commit to you that I will take a hard look at any980of those related matters if they come before me, if I am981confirmed.982    Senator King. My time is expired, but very quickly, just, I983hope you both, assuming you are confirmed, and that's up to the984Committee and the Senate, take a serious look at the985interconnection queues at the RTOs. That--remember we talked986about time. The average wait in many RTOs around the country is987five years. And that is unacceptable. And some of the RTOs are988now talking about using AI in the analysis, the engineering989analysis for interconnection. I think that has got to be part990of the solution. Again, time is our enemy here. If we don't991meet this demand, we are going to see some very negative992consequences.993    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.994    The Chairman. Thank you so much, Senator King.995    Senator Cortez Masto.996    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.997    Ms. Swett, Mr. LaCerte, congratulations on your nomination.998Thank you for meeting with me. Welcome to your families. I999appreciate you taking the time to answer some of my questions.1000I want to do some follow-up today on those questions for the1001record as well.1002    We have been talking about a lot of the independence, and1003the importance of the independence of FERC, and you both1004admitted to that when we were talking--the importance of that1005independence. But I want to just confirm my understanding of1006the law and your understanding of it as well. Currently, the1007law allows FERC to promulgate significant regulations, correct?1008The law allows you to do that?1009    Mr. LaCerte. Yes.1010    Ms. Swett. Yes, Senator.1011    Senator Cortez Masto. And there is a process for doing1012that, correct?1013    Mr. LaCerte. Yes.1014    Ms. Swett. Yes.1015    Senator Cortez Masto. Does the current law require review1016of those regulations by the President of the United States1017before you go through your process?1018    Yes or no?1019    Mr. LaCerte. Senator, I have to defer to the Administrative1020Procedure Act on that, and I haven't reviewed that in1021preparation for the hearing for that particular question.1022    Senator Cortez Masto. Well, I can tell you that APA doesn't1023allow that. So, you know that.1024    Ms. Swett, as an attorney, does the law currently in the1025APA and the rules that you follow for FERC, for regulatory1026agencies, when you are promulgating rules, there is process to1027follow, and in that legal process, does it require review of1028the President prior to moving forward?1029    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.1030    I am unaware of any law passed by Congress that states1031that.1032    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.1033    Because that's the crux of this issue, and that's what I1034want, somebody just to be honest with me in the law. I am an1035attorney. I read it. I know. I know there is no requirement by1036the President to review anything that we have set in law for a1037regulatory agency to do, but that's what he has put in his1038executive order, and that's my concern. There should be none of1039that oversight. Under the law, it doesn't exist. You are right,1040it's going to be before a court, and the court will make a1041determination, and that may change what we have really codified1042here in federal statute.1043    So let me move on. As we have discussed today,1044manufacturing and data centers are two industries causing a1045massive surge in electricity demand across the country. In my1046home State of Nevada, it's experiencing this through new1047battery manufacturing facilities and data operation centers1048across the Silver State. We talked about that. In anticipation1049of this boom, NV Energy has taken innovative steps to utilize1050grid-enhancing technologies to reconductor lines and bolster1051the capacity and reliability of existing power lines. From each1052of your perspectives, do you think the existing grid can be1053improved and maximized by new technologies to help mitigate1054some of those costs?1055    Mr. LaCerte, let me start with you.1056    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator, for the question.1057    I fully support maximizing technology as it relates to the1058grid. And as we continue to innovate, those grid-enhancing1059technologies will only get more efficient and more effective,1060so it has to be a continuous process. I do know that FERC, to1061date, has required an analysis on grid-enhancing technologies1062through one of their orders, and I fully support a continued1063analysis and a continued encouragement of their usage as we1064continue to evolve in these areas and we continue to find new1065and innovative ways to deliver electricity.1066    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.1067    Ms. Swett.1068    Ms. Swett. Thank you, Senator. I fully share my potential1069colleague's views on this matter.1070    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.1071    Let me just also say, and despite recent FERC orders,1072generation interconnection queues across the country are1073notoriously backlogged, and this is preventing the connection1074of new energy resources needed to meet growing power demands on1075regional grids. In fact, there was a recent report by Lawrence1076Berkeley National Lab that determined that nearly 2,3001077gigawatts of generation and storage capacity was held up in1078interconnection queues at the end of 2024. So, if confirmed,1079how do you believe FERC can best fix this backlog and address1080the growing demand?1081    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate that1082question. And quite frankly, there is too long of a line for1083almost everything, the interconnection queue being one of them.1084I know this is a multi-faceted issue, and I do know that it's a1085discussion that will have to be had with RTOs. So I welcome1086their perspective on this issue, if I am confirmed. We will1087have to work together as partners amongst the states, the RTOs,1088and the ISOs to come up with solutions to that issue and a1089number of other issues which, quite frankly, take too long, sap1090the work of the FERC career staff, and make it too hard for1091those that want to invest in our infrastructure to do so.1092    So it's important. It's a bipartisan issue, I believe. And1093we need to come forward to find solutions for not only the1094interconnection queue, but the long list and long wait times to1095do business across the board.1096    Senator Cortez Masto. Yes. Ms. Swett, anything else to add?1097    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.1098    The interconnection queue, I personally know, has been1099something that FERC has been wrangling with for many years, and1100many staff were devoted to issuing FERC's recent rulemakings1101related to that. And given that it is under appeal in several1102federal courts, I don't want to prejudge where it would come1103out. However, if I had the honor of being confirmed, I would1104certainly work very hard with my colleagues to see what FERC1105can do to solve that problem.1106    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.1107    My time is up. Thank you, both.1108    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you.1109    The Chairman. We will turn now to Senator Daines, who just1110paid me a profound compliment noting my uncanny resemblance to1111Mr. LaCerte, which is a huge compliment to me and a put down to1112Mr. LaCerte. You know, 20 years ago you had a lot of the women1113in the country getting their Rachel haircut, and now, we are1114all getting the LaCerte.1115    Senator Daines.1116    Senator Daines. If the Chairman would put away his razor1117for about a month, I think we would have a real uncanny1118resemblance there. So thank you, Chairman Lee, as well as1119Ranking Member Heinrich.1120    I want to first congratulate the nominees today, and I want1121to invite you both to come out to Montana to see the issues1122that we are talking about here today. We are rich in energy1123resources in Montana, which we are very grateful for.1124    FERC's mission, as stated on their website, is, and I1125quote, ``to assist consumers in obtaining reliable, safe,1126secure, and economically efficient energy.'' FERC is not and1127should not be a climate regulator. FERC is and should remain an1128independent body that focuses on safety and economics and stays1129true to the mission.1130    My first question is for both Ms. Swett and Mr. LaCerte,1131and it has been the same for many of the FERC nominees that1132have come before this Committee over the past several years.1133It's a yes or no question. Do you agree that FERC's primary1134mission is to be an economic and safety regulator?1135    I will start with Ms. Swett.1136    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.1137    Yes, I absolutely agree that FERC is an economic regulator,1138primarily.1139    Senator Daines. Mr. LaCerte.1140    Mr. LaCerte. Yes, Senator.1141    Senator Daines. Will you commit to review each decision1142that comes before you at the Commission fairly, impartially,1143and through the lens of providing affordable, reliable, and1144safe energy?1145    Ms. Swett.1146    Ms. Swett. Yes, Senator, I make that commitment1147wholeheartedly.1148    Senator Daines. Mr. LaCerte.1149    Mr. LaCerte. Yes, Senator, absolutely.1150    Senator Daines. Thank you.1151    I want to pivot and talk a bit about hydropower permitting1152reform. Hydropower provides the second largest share of1153electricity generation in Montana. It's a wonderful source of1154renewable energy and baseload power and very affordable and1155reliable power. Many of the existing dams are currently1156undergoing relicensing. Unfortunately, the existing process is1157broken, and it can take nearly a decade--a decade--to relicense1158a hydropower dam that has been operating for four decades. I1159have worked long and hard in a very bipartisan way in this1160Committee to make changes to that process. This includes modest1161changes to speed up the process, and focus it on the actual1162effects of the project moving forward instead of a wish list of1163mandatory conditions from agencies and outside stakeholders.1164    A question for Ms. Swett and Mr. LaCerte. Do you agree that1165we need to speed up licensing and relicensing for hydropower in1166order to continue to grow and maintain renewable baseload1167sources?1168    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.1169    Given the unprecedented demand that we are facing, getting1170every single molecule of electricity on the grid is of1171paramount importance, and that includes hydro, and the1172wonderful resource it is, particularly for your state. And I1173understand that these hydro license owners are facing1174diminishing resources and it is very difficult for them, in1175general, to operate in many cases. And I am committed to doing1176whatever I can, if I have the honor of being confirmed, to1177taking a hard look at FERC's piece of the relicensing process,1178although I understand there are many players there, as you1179mentioned--states and several federal agencies. So, within the1180powers that Congress grants the agency, I commit to you that I1181will take a hard look at it, if I am confirmed, with my1182colleagues to see what we can do to be more efficient for your1183license owners.1184    Senator Daines. Thank you.1185    Mr. LaCerte.1186    Mr. LaCerte. Senator, thank you.1187    I first want to acknowledge that hydro is an important1188component of our energy mix, and we need to do a better job of1189not only reforming the licensing for hydro, but across the1190board. It takes too long to do business with our government. It1191takes too long to invest in our infrastructure. And we need to1192do a better job everywhere, and first, and also I want to1193confirm for the record here that I accept your invitation to1194come to Montana.1195    Senator Daines. All right, thank you. It could involve a1196fly rod, speaking of hydropower.1197    Mr. LaCerte. I will do whatever it takes, Senator.1198    Senator Daines. All right, thank you.1199    Well, thank you. And let me just close with this brief1200statement. And Ms. Swett, you just mentioned the demands and1201needs that we have going forward here in terms of energy in our1202country. If we are going to meet demand, we simply need more of1203virtually every energy source. We simply need to be building1204more, which includes permitting more and trying to accelerate1205getting, as you said, more of these electrons on the grid--more1206natural gas, more coal, more hydropower, more nuclear, more1207geothermal, more wind, more solar. We need more electrons.1208    I encourage the nominees to keep that in the back--and I1209might argue the front--of your minds when you are making1210decisions on the future of U.S. energy policy. So thank you for1211being before this Committee today and for your willingness to1212serve in these very important roles for our great country.1213    The Chairman. Thanks, Senator Daines.1214    Senator Padilla.1215    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and again, welcome1216to both of the nominees. I appreciate the opportunity to raise1217some questions and issues with you.1218    First, as we all know, FERC is critically important. It1219serves as a central regulator for America's interstate energy1220system, shaping everything from grid reliability to our monthly1221bills, as well as the pace of project deployment. And all this1222work is made possible not just by the Commissioners but by the1223professional staff. So my first question for both of you is a1224yes or no question. Do you agree that the FERC staff is1225critical to the operations and success of FERC?1226    Ms. Swett.1227    Ms. Swett. Yes, Senator, thank you for the question. I1228absolutely agree with that premise.1229    Senator Padilla. Mr. LaCerte.1230    Mr. LaCerte. Yes, Senator, FERC will not be successful1231without the outstanding career staff that are there.1232    Senator Padilla. I very much appreciate your answers, and1233the reason I lead with that is because, as I imagine you are1234aware, in February of this year, President Trump issued an1235executive order requiring that agency heads undertake1236preparations to initiate large-scale reductions in force at1237their respective agencies. So, given your acknowledgement that1238the staff at FERC is critical to its mission success, will you1239commit to protecting FERC staff from directed reductions in1240force, whether they come from the President, whether they come1241from DOGE, or anybody else at the White House?1242    Mr. LaCerte.1243    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you for the question. I don't foresee a1244large-scale reduction in force at FERC. The mission of FERC is1245directly in line with the President's management agenda, and I1246don't foresee anyone asking that of FERC.1247    Senator Padilla. Ms. Swett.1248    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator. As someone1249who worked alongside FERC staff myself, I know how hard they1250work, how mission-driven they are, how technically strong and1251legally strong they are, and the value of each employee there.1252    Senator Padilla. Okay, I'm not getting a clear ``yes, I'm1253going to go to bat for the professional staff,'' and you may1254not foresee a directed reduction in staff, but we have seen it1255across the administration for months and months and months now,1256so yes or no, are you going to go to bat for maintaining1257staffing levels?1258    Mr. LaCerte. Yes.1259    Senator Padilla. Yes or no, Ms. Swett?1260    Ms. Swett. Yes, Senator.1261    Senator Padilla. Thank you very much.1262    The second area--I wanted to just echo a concern that1263Senator Heinrich has raised a couple of times, and Senator1264King, for that matter, respecting the independence of FERC and1265how critical that independence is for the job that it does.1266    Ms. Swett, I am satisfied with the answer you have given1267earlier, but Mr. LaCerte, you kind of gave a little bit of a1268caveat, referencing the Supreme Court and whether they would1269change anything in terms of the President's ability to hire or1270fire commissioners. What is your commitment to maintaining the1271independence of FERC regardless of the outcome of any case1272against the Supreme Court?1273    Mr. LaCerte. Senator, I will do the utmost of my ability1274under the law to maintain the independence of FERC, 1001275percent.1276    Senator Padilla. Okay, because I just can't imagine, and1277again, this is not hypothetical--we have seen the President1278threaten it and actually follow up on those threats in agency1279after agency, both those directly under his jurisdiction and1280authorities, and many of those that are not. So that is a1281significant concern.1282    The last area I do want to bring up is transmission and1283generation. Obviously, it's critical for fulfilling our growing1284needs as a country and as an economy. What we have seen since1285last Congress is continued delays and consistent projections of1286load growth as well as increasing energy cost. That's the data1287before us at this moment. So, what specific steps should FERC1288take to accelerate the interconnection queue processing,1289particularly for transmission-level projects. I know Senator1290Cortez Masto raised this, but I want to be more specific and1291precise here. Specific proposals or ideas?1292    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator.1293    First, I would like to acknowledge that we need more1294transmission. That's beyond debate. I think that to meet the1295coming needs, I have seen some of the growth projections and I1296have seen some of the need projections, and I certainly1297understand where you are coming from on that. So transmission1298is going to be part and parcel to maintaining that growth and1299sustaining that growth over the long term, but it's important1300to note also that we need to do so while protecting the1301ratepayers. It needs to be an important balance. As I noted in1302my opening, that needs to be done decision by decision and1303brick by brick. That's the way policy is implemented at FERC,1304and that is my commitment to you, if I am confirmed.1305    Senator Padilla. So one follow-up comment and one follow-up1306question to that, and then, of course, Ms. Swett, I will ask1307you to chime in.1308    One, there are proposals being kicked around, particularly1309as we have gone through our permitting reform negotiations here1310at this Committee level--standardized timelines and penalties1311for transmission owners who fail to meet those deadlines is1312certainly one balanced carrot-and-stick approach to move the1313ball forward, but the follow-up question, and my final question1314at this moment is, do you commit to doing that job and meeting1315those objectives regardless of resource type if we are in such1316need of additional energy on the grid? I know this1317administration is a big fan of fossil fuels, but electrons are1318electrons, whether they are natural gas plants that are1319generating that electricity or whether it is geothermal1320generating the electricity. We have talked about hydro in this1321hearing. I want an equal commitment to solar projects, to wind1322projects, whether it's onshore or offshore.1323    Yes or no, Mr. LaCerte and Ms. Swett?1324    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator.1325    The Federal Power Act requires that a FERC Commissioner be1326neutral in such a thing, so I am going to follow the law and I1327am going to maintain that neutrality.1328    Senator Padilla. Thank you.1329    Ms. Swett.1330    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator. I echo my1331colleague's sentiments here that FERC cannot unduly1332discriminate against any type of generation.1333    Senator Padilla. Thank you very much.1334    Thank you, Mr. Chair.1335    The Chairman. We will now turn to the former Governor of1336North Dakota and North Dakota's current Senior Senator, Senator1337John Hoeven.1338    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to both of1339you for being here, I appreciate it very much.1340    The first question I have for both of you is that coal1341provides an incredible amount of the baseload power generation1342in the country. Certainly, in our area, for example, North1343Dakota, two of our regional grid operators, MISO and SPP both1344get a lot of their baseload from coal-fired electric plants we1345have in our state. And we have got to have more baseload for1346the stability of the grid writ large. So, if confirmed--and I1347will start with you, Ms. Swett and then Mr. LaCerte--if1348confirmed, how would you approach the challenge of new demand1349growth, recognizing that we need baseload for the stability of1350the grid to have that available 24/7?1351    Ms. Swett. Thank you for your question, Senator, and I1352really appreciated the time to meet with you yesterday.1353    Senator Hoeven. Thank you.1354    Ms. Swett. If I have the honor of being confirmed, then I1355believe that ensuring that the FERC jurisdictional markets are1356sending accurate price signals will value all types of1357generation, including the value of baseload. If we can do1358whatever FERC can in its jurisdiction to ensure that those1359markets are well functioning, then I am committed to that goal,1360if I am confirmed.1361    Senator Hoeven. Well, I agree with that, and you have to1362send the right market signals. Do you have thoughts on how you1363do that? In other words, if you take two projects, and one is1364just continuing to add intermittent energy to the grid, which1365is creating less stability versus adding more baseload and you1366give them the exact same pricing signal, then you're not1367getting the more baseload that we need. So, do you have some1368thoughts on how to do that?1369    Ms. Swett. Yes, Senator, I do have thoughts after working1370on this for the Chairman, who I served under during my time at1371FERC. Every market is struggling with different resource1372adequacy issues and also trying to integrate the states'1373decisions that are in those markets on their generation mix and1374their portfolios, which is fully within their jurisdiction1375under the law. And so, the best thing that FERC can do is take1376all of the inputs that it gets from those states and their1377generation choices and every generator before it and the rates1378that it is considering to ensure that just and reasonable rates1379are achieved for the American people under the Federal Power1380Act.1381    Senator Hoeven. Okay, thank you.1382    Mr. LaCerte.1383    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator. I enjoyed our conversation1384in your office this week.1385    Senator Hoeven. Appreciate it.1386    Mr. LaCerte. You know, it's important that we note that1387coal is a vital component of our energy mix and the value that1388it gives to baseload power. And I have seen the studies. I have1389seen the supply and demand coming out of some of the RTOs, and1390we are going to need more reliable baseload power moving1391forward, and coal certainly plays an important component in1392that mix, absolutely.1393    Senator Hoeven. Yeah, and in fact, as far as developing1394more--and in our state, we have it all. I mean, we have1395biofuels, we have wind, we have solar, we have a lot of oil and1396gas, we have coal. We have it all. We do it all. I mean, we1397don't just say all-of-the-above, we actually do it, okay, and1398you know, the different forms of power have their role. But1399even to put more intermittent on, we are going to have to have1400more baseload or it doesn't work, right? Would you agree with1401that?1402    Mr. LaCerte. Absolutely.1403    Senator Hoeven. Yeah.1404    Talk, each of you, a little bit, and again, to follow up1405our conversation, the other challenge we have is, as we are1406moving energy to market--and we see that because we are in1407North Dakota--we move a lot of energy to, like, a 12-state1408region. So, transmission lines, pipelines, all those kinds of1409things, how do we build those projects, but at the same time,1410make sure that we protect states' rights and property rights?1411How do we, you know, what are your ideas in that regard?1412    And Ms. Swett, we will start with you again.1413    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.1414    I agree that building big transmission projects is1415essential to our reliability as a nation, and I am committed to1416doing whatever FERC can to ensure that its part encourages1417infrastructure development. That said, also, if I am confirmed,1418I will faithfully execute the laws as passed by Congress, and1419FERC does not have siting authority over transmission. It only1420has a very small portion of the law for eminent domain within a1421DOE-designated corridor. And so, whatever the guidance of1422Congress is on that matter, I will faithfully execute, if the1423law is changed as well.1424    Senator Hoeven. But certainly, sensitive to protecting1425private property rights?1426    Ms. Swett. Yes, absolutely, Senator. I am very aware that1427landowner rights are--they are very important, very personal,1428and I would take a hard look at them in any matter before me,1429if I am confirmed.1430    Senator Hoeven. Thank you.1431    Mr. LaCerte.1432    Mr. LaCerte. Senator, thank you, I appreciate that1433question. You know, as a former state cabinet secretary, I1434certainly appreciate the value of states' rights, and you know,1435the lack of federal encroachment upon those rights. It's1436important to me. I know we discussed that in your office the1437other day. You know, it's important also to note, as a South1438Louisianan, you know, it's important that we take into account1439landowners' rights when we are permitting and we are planning1440our pipelines and our transmission. And I think, you know, it's1441definitely an important factor within those particular realms.1442    Senator Hoeven. Yes. Again, thanks to both of you,1443appreciate it very much.1444    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1445    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hoeven.1446    We will turn next to Senator Gallego.1447    Senator Gallego. Thank you, Chairman Lee and Ranking Member1448Heinrich, and thank you to our witnesses for your attendance1449today.1450    Energy affordability and reliability is extremely important1451in Arizona, particularly, of course, to stay cool. Arizonans1452have to shell out an extra $100 compared to their winter1453electric bills per month, which is the highest additional cost1454anywhere in this country. In addition, we do have growth of1455data warehouses, as well as great chip manufacturing. So, as1456the load growth demand rises, Arizonans deserve federal leaders1457that will ensure that their energy cost does not get more1458expensive, and of course, dangerously less reliable.1459    I first want to echo some of the concerns of my colleagues1460around FERC's independence--some of that, I think, we have been1461wary to see, not just with FERC, but other independent1462committees that have slowly, slowly, I think, been crept into1463by this administration, so I want to make sure that you1464continue to do that.1465    Mr. LaCerte, especially in Arizona summers, our energy grid1466faces very, very high demand. In 2023, a study was actually1467done that a multi-day blackout, which has happened in other1468states, could cause nearly half the city to require emergency1469department care and could potentially kill thousands of1470Arizonans and Phoenicians. And we are certainly not the only1471state that is dealing with extreme heat and other weather1472disasters. How will you partner with public utility regulators1473to identify and respond to emerging reliability challenges1474across the country?1475    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator. I first want to note,1476thank you for your service. You know, my grandfather is buried1477in the Veterans' Cemetery in Chandler, Arizona.1478    Senator Gallego. Oh, excellent.1479    Mr. LaCerte. I wanted to note that and thank you for that,1480but you are absolutely correct, the impact of reliability on1481our systems is one of public health. It's important to note,1482especially in your home State of Arizona, air conditioning1483isn't just a nicety, it's a necessity. I certainly understand1484that. And it just goes back to one of my earlier comments,1485which is that we need to return FERC's decision-making to where1486every question we need to ask is, will this decision make our1487grid more reliable and more resilient and will it make the grid1488more affordable? And if the answer to that is no, then we1489should question why we are doing it. I think we need to pare1490back down to the baseline statute within the Federal Power Act.1491We need to have that be our guiding light, our home base, in1492everything that we do within FERC.1493    Senator Gallego. Ms. Swett.1494    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.1495    I, given my time at FERC, understand that the Western1496Interconnection is both geographically and scientifically1497different, has different components. Your load centers in the1498West are further apart. The bulk power grid also has issues1499that the Eastern Interconnection doesn't have. And all of those1500factors would be components that are required by a sitting FERC1501Commissioner's analysis of what would be a just and reasonable1502rate in the matters before them. So, if I am confirmed, then I1503will honor the law and look at every single fact as it pertains1504to your state and of course every other state.1505    Senator Gallego. One of the areas that is very important in1506Arizona--we have 22 federally recognized tribes, some of the1507largest representation in the country. They are fairly far1508displaced--hard to get to, in terms of energy and connection1509for those tribes, which creates problems when it comes to1510economic growth and when it comes to even any type of general1511welfare. And so, one of the things that FERC's website talks1512about is the agency's commitment to engaging with tribes and1513upholding the trust responsibility in the decision-making1514process. And you will see that some of these tribal governments1515want to work with FERC or with other government agencies, but1516sometimes they're not treated with the respect that they are1517due through the trust responsibility. And so, as the agency1518regulates--intermission and transmission and gas projects,1519first decisions to impact tribal energy and affordability and1520reliability will certainly matter to them.1521    So, will you commit to maintaining FERC's tribal liaison1522and gas tribal coordinator roles? And why that matters for1523Arizonans is because if you see some of the routes where we can1524bring in new pipelines, and new lines in general, it's going to1525have to cross through a lot of tribal lands. And it's easier if1526you are working with them ahead of time and through tribal1527consultation in a more of a dedicated manner than not.1528    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you for your question, Senator.1529    I agree that we could do a better job of working with our1530partners. That includes state public service commissions. That1531includes RTOs. That includes Indian tribes. The Native American1532tribes are an important component of our partnerships. And you1533made mention, you know, you need to work with these leaders in1534order to develop strategies and solutions that work, and you1535need to do that over a longer term. You know, I, myself, am1536from South Louisiana. I grew up adjacent to the Pointe-au-Chien1537Indian tribe. I dealt with the Houma tribe, the Choctaws, and I1538am very familiar from my background in Louisiana working with1539tribal leaders.1540    I think that importance is known across the Federal1541Government, but especially within FERC itself.1542    Senator Gallego. And more specifically, I am asking, are1543you maintaining the tribal liaison positions for both of you?1544It's just a yes or no.1545    Mr. LaCerte. I am not seated yet. I am not familiar with1546the tribal liaison seating, but I certainly support the1547mission.1548    Senator Gallego. Ms. Swett.1549    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator. I agree1550with the premise that every voice must be heard, and FERC's1551statutory role under NEPA is to consider everything on the1552record, and that includes tribal voices if they are filed in a1553project record that is before FERC. So, I commit to you that I1554would take a hard look at all of that information, and given1555that, like my colleague, I am not seated at FERC right now, I1556am not familiar with what the program is regarding tribal1557liaisons, but I will absolutely take a hard look at that, if I1558am confirmed.1559    Senator Gallego. Thank you. I yield back.1560    Senator King. Mr. Chairman.1561    The Chairman. Yes, go ahead, Senator King.1562    Senator King. Just one quick follow-up on the technology we1563haven't talked about, which is batteries. And there is a1564discussion about baseload power, and, of course, renewables1565plus batteries is baseload, but batteries can also have an1566important role to play in transmission.1567    Ms. Swett, can you discuss that, in stabilizing the grid?1568    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.1569    I have not looked into the battery engineering components1570as they relate to the grid, but I would absolutely be open to1571any type of technology that would stabilize or enhance our1572existing grid, if I had the honor of being confirmed.1573    Senator King. Mr. LaCerte, thoughts on batteries?1574    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator. I agree in premise that1575batteries could be an important component of increasing the1576reliability of baseload. I think as our technologies evolve,1577those batteries will become more and more efficient and1578effective, and I think it definitely warrants continued1579monitoring and usage, and is something that should be reviewed1580by FERC.1581    Senator King. Yeah, the development is occurring very1582rapidly in terms of the technology, the cost, and the1583availability that batteries can provide in order to buffer,1584whether it's renewables or any other problems that may be1585encountered on the grid. So, I hope that's something you will1586have in the back of your mind in terms of your regulatory1587authority. Batteries, I believe, are going to become a much1588bigger part of the grid than they are today, and that's going1589to be happening fast. Thank you very much.1590    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1591    The Chairman. Thank you.1592    Senator Hickenlooper.1593    Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks to both1594of you for being willing to subject yourselves to the questions1595and for your public service.1596    Ms. Swett, let me start with you. And as we discussed1597yesterday, thank you both for spending some time and being1598willing to answer any question, which I appreciate. As we1599discussed, Ms. Swett, your experience focuses really on oil and1600gas. And as you know, FERC's authority goes well beyond oil and1601gas, as we discussed to a certain extent. As I'm sure you could1602feel from the direction of my questions yesterday, regional1603transmission planning and cost allocation electricity markets1604are essential to some of its most fundamental statutory1605responsibility. And as we talked about--the reliability and the1606affordability, I think, are the two bulwarks.1607    Actually, I can ask both of you this question. Unlike most1608other places in the world, our grid is regionalized, and it1609doesn't operate under a unified policy. Therefore, the1610oversight of FERC is essential. So I guess the question would1611be, how can you work to ensure the electric reliability and1612affordability through the regional transmission planning and1613the--let's just call it the market oversight--the electricity1614market oversight?1615    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator, and I1616really enjoyed the time speaking with you yesterday. I actually1617spent over half my career working for electric utilities and1618transmission owners. And given my experience with them, I am1619very aware of the competing interests that go into regional1620transmission planning, the decisions on the physical grid, also1621cost allocation planning, taking into account congestion points1622and all the science that goes behind it. And FERC has a very1623difficult role as the federal agency tasked with ensuring that1624all of that is combined into a just and reasonable rate.1625    I am confident that if we really put our heads to it, we1626can figure out a solution that will ensure that American1627consumers pay a just and reasonable rate, given all of the1628factors in front of FERC.1629    Senator Hickenlooper. Great.1630    Mr. LaCerte, do you want to add anything to that?1631    Mr. LaCerte. Senator, thank you. And I would like to note,1632that's the trillion-dollar question.1633    [Laughter.]1634    Mr. LaCerte. It's one which is not going to be solved here1635in two minutes, but I can tell you that it's something that1636requires very intensive discussion with all the stakeholders at1637the table, and it's a multi-faceted issue, and it's definitely1638a challenge facing FERC, today and tomorrow.1639    Senator Hickenlooper. Great. I appreciate that.1640    And Mr. LaCerte, I will stick with you with this question,1641which we discussed a little bit yesterday, but I thought about1642it more. You know, interregional transmission helps deliver the1643lowest-cost energy sources from where they are generated to1644where electricity is needed, and oftentimes that's reflected in1645the cost, you know, where it's more valuable. This Committee1646recently had a whole hearing looking at how do we meet demand1647in an efficient way, and we heard that transmission is going to1648be clearly needed to address the AI boom--what's called, for1649lack of a better term, an AI boom.1650    So, do you agree that transmission across state lines1651increases the reliability of the grid? In other words, as we1652cross state lines, is that one of the basic methods to increase1653reliability?1654    Mr. LaCerte. Yeah, I would agree, Senator, that interstate1655transmission, when properly planned and executed, will increase1656the reliability.1657    Senator Hickenlooper. Great.1658    And then, are there reforms, in terms of how do we do that?1659Again, we touched on this a little bit yesterday. What are the1660reforms we need to make sure that we do that build-out in the1661appropriate way?1662    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, and I know we spent some time1663talking about this yesterday in your office. I think we need to1664make it easier to do business with the Federal Government, and1665by reducing some of the barriers to entry, by reducing some of1666the exclusion of the mid and smaller companies that can do1667business with the company, we are going to invite more1668investors to the table to invest in our grid, invest in our1669infrastructure. And that's going to pay dividends in both the1670reliability and the affordability of our energy systems.1671    Senator Hickenlooper. Right. And is it your sense that we1672are going to need to expand our transmission capacity in order1673to address the load growth, given AI and all the other things1674that are coming?1675    Mr. LaCerte. Senator, it only makes sense that increased1676load growth will require increased transmission, yes.1677    Senator Hickenlooper. Yeah, I think that's basic.1678    Ms. Swett, do you want to add anything to that, either of1679those?1680    Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.1681    As a general premise--and this matter is under litigation1682in various stages--however, as a general premise, increasing1683the amount of transmission available increases the geographic1684availability of new generation to join the grid. As you know,1685high-population load centers are not good places to build1686increased generation that we need. And if we have more1687accessibility across state lines, like you are proposing, then1688that means that there is more flexibility for generators to use1689the specific characteristics of the land around them, wherever1690that may make sense for it to be per the state's decisions.1691    Senator Hickenlooper. Exactly. I could not ask for--we1692agree.1693    Anyway, I am out of time, as always. Thank you both, again,1694for your willingness to serve the country.1695    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you.1696    The Chairman. Okay, as we are wrapping up, I just want to1697hit a couple things.1698    First of all, once you are confirmed, assuming you are1699confirmed, I look forward to working with both of you on1700prioritizing permitting reform. Senator Barrasso and others1701have referred to that effort today, and it's a priority. I look1702forward to working with both of you on that, as FERC has an1703important role in the permitting process for the areas we have1704discussed.1705    I also wanted to clarify, since we have had some discussion1706surrounding the APA, I want to clarify that while the APA1707doesn't require presidential reviews on draft rules, there is1708also nothing in there prohibiting it.1709    In any event, I want to thank both witnesses, both1710nominees, Ms. Swett and Mr. LaCerte, for being here, for your1711families, for the members who have participated and their1712cooperation this morning in this hearing.1713    Questions for the record for the hearing are due by 6:001714p.m. this evening, September 4th.1715    And on behalf of the Committee, I congratulate both1716nominees and look forward to working with each of you.1717    The hearing stands adjourned.1718    [Whereupon, at 10:58 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]17191720                      APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED17211722                              ----------17231724[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]17251726                                 [all]