Hearings to examine the front lines of connectivity, focusing on FirstNet's role in public safety.

1[Senate Hearing 119-473]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                                                        S. Hrg. 119-47356               FEES ROLLED ON ALL SUMMER LONG: EXAMINING7                     THE LIVE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY89=======================================================================1011                                HEARING1213                               before the1415                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON CONSUMER PROTECTION,16                      TECHNOLOGY, AND DATA PRIVACY1718                                 of the1920                         COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE,21                      SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION22                          UNITED STATES SENATE2324                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2526                             SECOND SESSION27                               __________2829                            JANUARY 28, 202630                               __________3132    Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation3334                   [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3536                Available online: http://www.govinfo.gov3738                               ______3940                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE414264-113 PDF                WASHINGTON : 20264344       SENATE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION4546                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS4748                             SECOND SESSION4950                       TED CRUZ, Texas, Chairman5152JOHN THUNE, South Dakota             MARIA CANTWELL, Washington,53ROGER WICKER, Mississippi                Ranking54DEB FISCHER, Nebraska                AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota55JERRY MORAN, Kansas                  BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii56DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska                 EDWARD MARKEY, Massachusetts57MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee          GARY PETERS, Michigan58TODD YOUNG, Indiana                  TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin59TED BUDD, North Carolina             TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois60ERIC SCHMITT, Missouri               JACKY ROSEN, Nevada61JOHN CURTIS, Utah                    BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico62BERNIE MORENO, Ohio                  JOHN HICKENLOOPER, Colorado63TIM SHEEHY, Montana                  JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania64SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia  ANDY KIM, New Jersey65CYNTHIA LUMMIS, Wyoming              LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware6667                 Brad Grantz, Republican Staff Director68           Nicole Christus, Republican Deputy Staff Director69                   Lila Harper Helms, Staff Director70                 Melissa Porter, Deputy Staff Director7172                                 ------7374                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON CONSUMER PROTECTION,75                      TECHNOLOGY, AND DATA PRIVACY7677MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee, Chair   JOHN HICKENLOOPER, Colorado,78JOHN THUNE, South Dakota                 Ranking79DEB FISCHER, Nebraska                AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota80JERRY MORAN, Kansas                  BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii81TODD YOUNG, Indiana                  EDWARD MARKEY, Massachusetts82JOHN CURTIS, Utah                    TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin83SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia  BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico84CYNTHIA LUMMIS, Wyoming              LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware8586                            C O N T E N T S8788                              ----------89                                                                   Page90Hearing held on January 28, 2026.................................     191Statement of Senator Blackburn...................................     192    Letter dated September 30, 2025 to Joe Berchtold, President93      and Chief Financial Officer, Live Nation Entertainment,94      Inc. from Senator Marsha Blackburn and Senator Ray Ben95      Lujan......................................................    5896    Letter dated October 17, 2025 to Senator Marsha Blackburn and97      Senator Ben Ray Lujan from Daniel M. Wall, Executive Vice98      President, Corporate and Regulatory Affairs, Live Nation99      Entertainment, Inc.........................................    60100Statement of Senator Hickenlooper................................     3101Statement of Senator Klobuchar...................................    32102Statement of Senator Schmitt.....................................    34103Statement of Senator Lujan.......................................    36104Statement of Senator Cruz........................................    38105Statement of Senator Blunt Rochester.............................    41106Statement of Senator Cantwell....................................    42107Statement of Senator Lummis......................................    45108Statement of Senator Markey......................................    50109    Letter dated November 5, 2025 to Hon. Brianna K. Nadeau from110      John Breyault, Vice President, Public Policy,111      Telecommunications, and Fraud, National Consumers League...    50112113                               Witnesses114115Robert Ritchie ``Kid Rock'', Entertainer.........................     5116    Prepared statement...........................................     7117Dan Wall, Executive Vice President of Corporate and Regulatory118  Affairs, Live Nation Entertainment.............................     8119    Prepared statement...........................................    10120Brian Berry, Executive Director, Ticket Policy Forum.............    14121    Prepared statement...........................................    16122David Weingarden, Chair and Co-Founder, Colorado Independent123  Venue Association (CIVA) and Vice President for Concerts and124  Events, Z2 Entertainment.......................................    20125    Prepared statement...........................................    22126127                                Appendix128129Response to written questions submitted to Dan Wall by:130    Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................    71131    Hon. Marsha Blackburn........................................    73132    Hon. John Hickenlooper.......................................    76133Response to written questions submitted to Brian Berry by:134    Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................    76135    Hon. Marsha Blackburn........................................    79136    Hon. John Hickenlooper.......................................    81137Response to written question submitted to David Weingarden by:138    Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................    81139140                   FEES ROLLED ON ALL SUMMER LONG: EXAMINING141                     THE LIVE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY142143                              ----------144145                      WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 28, 2026146147                               U.S. Senate,148  Subcommittee on Consumer Protection, Technology,149                                  and Data Privacy,150        Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation,151                                                    Washington, DC.152    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:30 p.m., in153room SR-253, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Marsha154Blackburn, Chairwoman of the Subcommittee, presiding.155    Present: Senators Blackburn [presiding], Cruz, Young,156Schmitt, Lummis, Hickenlooper, Cantwell, Klobuchar, Markey,157Lujan, and Blunt Rochester.158159          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARSHA BLACKBURN,160                  U.S. SENATOR FROM TENNESSEE161162    Senator Blackburn. Hello, and welcome to everyone. Thrilled163that you all are here, and as we begin this hearing today for164my fellow Tennesseans I want them to know we are certainly165keeping them in our prayers as they work through this166incredible ice storm that we have had.167    But I am grateful that you all are here for this hearing.168If you were to ask any of my fellow Tennesseans what is wrong169with ticketing today, they will not hesitate to tell you that170the system feels rigged against them.171    They follow the rules, they get in the queue so that they172can make a purchase, so they are in there in advance and they173do everything right. And then they watch the tickets vanish in174seconds and they come back on the secondary markets at three or175four times the price.176    Now, sometimes they have these tickets in their cart and177they move to checkout, and before they can click to buy the178ticket vanishes. It is gone.179    And then sometimes the other problem is they go to the180resale site and they think they are buying a ticket. Again,181they are following the rules. They want to go to the show.182    They want to go to the concert. They want to go to the183sporting event. But the ticket really does not exist because184the scammers and the scalpers are selling speculative tickets.185    And I hear from a lot of these constituents that are buying186these tickets that do not exist or are priced at exorbitant187prices.188    Now, it might be the nurse who has just finished working a189double shift and so she logs on the minute the tickets go on190sale, and before she can click to buy it says sold out.191    Or maybe it is the dad who has promised their 16-year-old192for their birthday they are going to get to go to a concert,193the first big concert.194    And if I went around this hearing room and I said, tell me195the first concert you went to, nearly every one of you could196name that event for me.197    You could talk about that day. Some of you would talk about198what you wore. Some of you would talk about what you said and199the friends that went with you for that event.200    And, of course, the disappointment mounts because the201tickets are gone. Fans are not angry about the fact that202tickets are popular and that events are popular. They are fans203and they want this experience.204    What they are mad as hell about is that the system is205stacked against them. The ticket industry should desire to do206better. They should want to do better for fans of these artists207and sports teams and shows.208    But consumers have lost faith that the rules apply not209equally to the marketplace and to them. They favor the bots,210the brokers, all the bad actors that are in this marketplace.211    Now, for years--many of you know this--about a decade I212have been working to address these ticketing issues because213fans deserve fairness, transparency, and a real chance to see214the artists they love, the teams that they love, and that is215why Congress passed the bipartisan bicameral Better Online216Ticket Sales Act--the BOTS Act--to stop the use of these217automated tools and the other schemes that are cheating218consumers, that are circumventing safeguards, and undermining219trust in the live entertainment marketplace.220    For years, the FTC failed to use the tools at their221disposal to go after the scalpers and, by the way, they did not222have any help from Ticketmaster going after these guys.223    Now, that changed when President Donald Trump went into224office, and he was joined in the Oval Office by my friend Kid225Rock, and President Trump issued an executive order on226combating unfair practices in the ticketing marketplace.227    The order specifically urged the FTC to rigorously enforce228the BOTS Act. Chairman Ferguson immediately answered that call,229and I am pleased that the BOTS Act is finally being enforced as230intended.231    There is so much that we are going to discuss today,232including the ongoing enforcement action being pursued by the233FTC against Live Nation and Ticketmaster.234    The FTC suit alleges that bad actors routinely bypass235ticket limit enforcement measures to buy large blocks of236tickets, which were then sold on Ticketmaster and Live Nation's237own resale platform.238    How about that? Going to get you coming and going. Instead239of holding these brokers accountable--and, by the way, they240know that these bad actors are out there--the FTC alleges that241Ticketmaster turned a blind eye to these violations and242violated the BOTS Act simply because Ticketmaster wanted to243make an extra buck. They are looking for that extra percent on244every sale.245    Over three years ago, Mr. Joe Berchtold, the Live Nation246President then, sat before me under oath in the Senate247Judiciary Committee and said that Ticketmaster does everything248in its power to stop scalpers using bots and other means of249circumvention from hoarding tickets and harming consumers.250    If the lawsuit against them is any indication, that is far251from the truth. I will tell you this. If the local utility252company and the local bank can block the bots that are trying253to get in their system every single day, every day, a254powerhouse like Live Nation, Ticketmaster, honest to God ought255to be able to figure this out and I am tired of waiting on them256to do something about it. It is negligent.257    I am also looking forward to discussing the consumer258protection issues specific to the secondary market like259speculative tickets, deceptive URLs, exorbitant resale prices,260and a number of other issues addressed in legislation that this261committee has worked on for years. Here in Congress, we are262going to continue to fight for the fans and for the artists and263ensure a fair ticketing marketplace.264    At this time, I recognize the Ranking Member for his265opening statement.266267             STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN HICKENLOOPER,268                   U.S. SENATOR FROM COLORADO269270    Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you all271for being here.272    It is easy to see that we deal with a lot of emotional273issues in this building and this is not--there is no difference274here. People care about music in a very powerful way.275    I think this is an important discussion around the live276entertainment industry today in this country. Fans across the277country dedicate their time and their energy to attend live278entertainment.279    Like, whether it is on concerts and sporting events, live280events brighten our days. They help bring communities together281and create a sense of purpose and unity. When you see a--when282you are part of an audience at a major musical event, you283become part of a community in the duration of that performance.284    These events allow performers to show off their talent,285oftentimes at the highest level, and they are creating memories286that will last a lifetime.287    Somebody who grew up in the Sixties and went to Woodstock,288I realize that is no proof of product, but I have seen my whole289life people having those memories change their lives for the290better.291    What once was an easy, clear, reliable experience for fans292to get online or walk up to a box office and buy tickets has293turned into a confusing marketplace. Today, a consumer will294have to pay an additional administrative fee, a delivery fee, a295payment processing fee for every ticket they purchase. It is a296checkout gauntlet.297    When we first--I was in the restaurant business and we298opened brew pubs across Colorado, our North Star was to always299make sure that our customers--in music you would call them our300fans--that they had the best possible experience, that there301would be the highest probability that they would come back and302be a repeat customer.303    The cheapest customer to get is the one that you have304already had. If they ordered a craft beer, our job was to make305sure that the craft beer was the best craft beer that they306could get.307    Today, a fan can purchase what they believe is a legitimate308ticket to an event only to be turned away once they get to the309venue because what they bought was a fake or a speculative310ticket.311    This deception means less fans for supporting performers.312It erodes the trust in the entire entertainment industry.313Obviously, it disappoints fans. We want fans to experience314Colorado's landmark venues--you know, Fiddler's Green315Amphitheater, the Fillmore auditorium, or God bless it forever,316Red Rocks Amphitheater.317    I have had some of my greatest performance memories--not me318performing, trust me, although I did once play the banjo on the319stage to Red Rocks, but I will stop bragging.320    Senator Blackburn. Maybe you can get hired.321    Senator Hickenlooper. Yes, exactly. Well, I have tried. It322did not work out. I will never be hired to do music, that is323for sure.324    But I think whether it is at large sold-out arenas or small325pubs with an open mic, every corner of Colorado is brimmed with326talented performers waiting for their chance to engage and327entertain and move people, and that is why Colorado, you know,328we feel it is the heartbeat of the live music scene in the329West.330    It has become a leader by passing customer protection laws331to make sure that those critical fans are not pissed off. Our332state has passed legislation to guard against speculative333tickets and passed measures to make all-in ticket pricing334transparent for all fans.335    Here in Congress and across the Federal Government, we need336to continue beating the same drum of customer fairness to make337sure that every American is protected by these common-sense338guardrails.339    Federal Trade Commission--the FTC--has begun enforcing its340junk fees rule to promote upfront pricing and fight against341deceptive advertising for both products and services.342    Congress also passed the BOTS Act, as the Chair had343mentioned, in 2016 to stop ticket scalpers from using bots to344buy all available tickets for a show just to be able to resell345them to the highest bidder.346    Despite this progress, we need to work together to make347sure across government and industry that we can do more. A348level playing field with fair competition, clear rules, strong349enforcement is going to help every aspiring artist to sell as350many tickets as they can, sell out every place they can, and351make sure that every performer gets that chance to reach new352fans and every consumer that chance to create new memories.353    This committee has shown that on a bipartisan basis354Democrats and Republicans can come together and begin to make355common-sense reforms a reality.356    The TICKET Act, led by Senators Schmitt and Markey, ensures357that every consumer sees the price transparency they need from358first click so they are not blindsided at the checkout.359    The MAIN Ticketing Event Act improves data sharing between360ticket platforms and helps the FTC catch the bad actors who use361bots to hoard tickets and rip off fans, and beyond regulation,362I am proud to partner with Chair Blackburn on the American363Music Tourism Act, which will grow the entire music ecosystem364through economic development, not just regulate it.365    Each of these bills have passed this committee with366bipartisan support. Now we need to make sure that we get them367all signed into law so consumers can reap the benefits of these368protections.369    This is about more than just a lower service fee. It is370about protecting the live experience that brings so many people371together. Let us get the junk fees out of the way so we can get372back to enjoying the music of, well, of John Denver and ``Rocky373Mountain High.''374    Chair Blackburn, I yield back.375    Senator Blackburn. I thank the gentleman and, you know, we376might let Red Rock or some of your Colorado venues be a little377Nashville.378    [Laughter.]379    Senator Blackburn. Well, we will take that on.380    I want to say a thank you to each of our witnesses today.381What a great panel. We are grateful that you are here.382    And at this time, I would like to introduce our witnesses.383Our first is Mr. Robert Ritchie. Perhaps he is better known as384``Kid Rock''. Kid Rock is a well-known singer-songwriter who385has sold over 25 million albums around the world. He brings386firsthand experience, drawing sold-out crowds to events across387the country.388    Our second witness is Brian Berry, Executive Director of389Ticket Policy Forum, an advocacy coalition representing the390Nation's six major online ticket marketplaces. Mr. Berry has391spent the last decade working at the intersection of live392events ticketing, competition, advocacy at the Federal and the393state level.394    Our third witness is Dan Wall. Dan Wall is the Executive395Vice President for Corporate and Regulatory Affairs at Live396Nation Entertainment. Live Nation Entertainment, the parent397company of Ticketmaster, is the largest ticket vendor in the398world.399    And our final witness, David Weingarden, Chair and Co-400Founder of the Colorado Independent Venue Association,401representing over a hundred promoters and venues. He also402serves as the vice president for concert and events at Z2403Entertainment.404    At this time, Mr. Ritchie, you are recognized for 5 minutes405for your opening statement.406407     STATEMENT OF ROBERT RITCHIE ``KID ROCK'', ENTERTAINER408409    Mr. Ritchie. Is this--there it is.410    Good afternoon. Thank you, Senator Blackburn and committee411members, for this opportunity.412    My name is Robert Ritchie, PKA Kid Rock. I am proud to say413I have been packing arenas, amphitheaters, and stadiums with414the greatest fans on earth for over 25 years. I am also a415capitalist.416    I am here today because I love God. I love this country. I417love live music and sports, and I believe music fans and418artists have been getting screwed for far too long by the419ticketing system.420    I am in a unique position to testify because, unlike most421of my peers, I am beholden to no one--no record companies, no422managers, no corporate endorsements or deals. To put it423plainly, I ain't scared.424    I ain't scared to speak out on these issues like many425artists, managers, and agents are for fear of biting the hand426that feeds them.427    I am here because hardworking Americans who love live music428deserve better and because artists deserve control over their429own work. And let us be clear, this problem is older than430timeouts and participation trophies.431    Thirty years ago, members of the rock band Pearl Jam--432excuse me, members of the rock band Pearl Jam sat in these same433seats warning Congress about ticketing abuse. In 2009, Congress434was told under oath that merging Live Nation and Ticketmaster435would benefit artists and fans. The CEO of Live Nation called436the merger an experiment and promised it would increase437competition, empower artists, and lower costs. He also said,438and I quote, ``A system that empowers artists benefits439everyone.'' Almost need a rim shot after that.440    The CEO of Ticketmaster at the time also testified in 2009441and said, ``We believe the combination of our two companies442will benefit artists, fans, theaters, sports teams, museums,443and all the other facilities, performers, and spectators who444use our services.''445    The economic foundation that supported artists in the past446is crumbling. Piracy is threatening their livelihood. Secondary447ticketing is driving up prices for the fans with absolutely no448benefit to the artist.449    Needless to say, that experiment has failed miserably.450Independent venues have been crushed. Artists have lost451leverage. Fans are paying more than ever and getting blamed for452it.453    Should Ticketmaster and Live Nation be broken up? Probably.454Would that alone fix things? Not sure it would. But I am sure455of this, no artist should be forced to sell their tickets456without a say in who sells them and how they are sold.457    What other business in America does not control or at least458have a say in their own inventory? If artists had real choice,459real competition would follow and tickets would end up in the460hands of real fans at the prices we, the artists, set.461    It is no secret--it is no secret, none, that this industry462is full of greedy snakes and scoundrels, too many suits lining463their pockets off talent they never had and fans they mislead.464    The truth is much of this could have been or still could be465solved through technology, especially proof of humanity tools.466It has not happened yet because there is just too much money in467the secondary ticket market.468    Ticketing companies did not fail to stop this. It seems469they chose not to. In parts--now, meanwhile, the problem has470been addressed with much success overseas. In parts of Europe,471resale ticket prices are capped and it seems to be working.472    I have been advocating for a 10 percent price cap here in473the states on the resale of a ticket and in fairness--in474fairness, Ticketmaster and Live Nation have supported this cap.475    Where I am confused is this. I do not think Ticketmaster476needs a law passed to do this. If that is true, then it only477proves these companies have not been reactive--have not been478reactive--have been reactive, not proactive.479    I would implore Congress--this is important--to subpoena480the contracts and deals between artists, promoters, buildings,481ticketing companies, agencies, and vendors because as I482understand it, you will find mountains of fraud and abuse.483    Now, my positions and solutions are as follows. Number one,484artists should control who sells their tickets and how.485    Number two, resale ticket price caps work and protect real486fans.487    Number three, the BOTS Act should be enforced. Brokers and488bad actors must be stopped and all should face serious489penalties and consequences. All-in pricing is great, but it490does not fix the system. Outlawing speculative ticketing is491obvious.492    The problem is that ticketing lobbyists push these reforms493as cover, while fighting to keep tickets in an open market and494lets them exploit fans under the guise of capitalism.495    Do not be fooled by these tactics. Congress and many others496have been fooled since the mid-1990s, fooled again in 2009 and497so on. This was not an experiment; it was a monopoly dressed up498as innovation.499    So I will close now with the words of one of my favorite500rock bands, The Who, and say it is my sincere hope we will not501get fooled again.502    Thank you. Rock on.503    [The prepared statement of Mr. Ritchie follows:]504505            Prepared Statement of Robert J Ritchie/Kid Rock506    Good afternoon. Thank you Senator Blackburn and committee members507for this opportunity.508    My name is Robert Ritchie aka Kid Rock. I'm proud to say I have509been packing arenas, amphitheaters and stadiums with the greatest fans510on earth for over 25 years.511    I am also a capitalist.512    I'm here today because I love God, I love this country, I love live513music and sports, and I believe music fans and artists have been514getting screwed for far too long by the ticketing system.515    I'm in a unique position to testify because unlike most of my peers516I am beholden to no one.517    No record label.518    No manager.519    No corporate endorsements or deals.520    To put it plainly, I ain't scared to speak out on these issues like521many artists, managers and agents are.522    I'm also not here for personal gain. I'm here because hard working523Americans who love live music deserve better, and because artists524deserve control over their own work.525    And let's be clear--this is FAR from a new problem.526    Thirty years ago, members of the rock band Pearl Jam sat in these527same seats, warning Congress about ticketing abuse.528    In 2009, Congress was told--under oath--that merging Live Nation529and Ticketmaster would benefit artists and fans.530    The CEO of Live Nation called the merger an ``experiment'' and531promised it would increase competition, empower artists, and lower532costs. He also said, and I quote ``a system that empowers artists533benefits everyone.''534    The CEO of Ticketmaster also testified in 2009 and said535536        ``We believe the combination of our two companies will benefit537        artists, fans, theater, sports teams, museums and all the other538        facilities, performers and spectators who use our services.''.539        . .. . .. ``The economic foundation that supported artists in540        the past is crumbling. Piracy is threatening their livelihood.541        Secondary ticketing is driving up prices for the fans with542        absolutely no benefit to the artist.''543544    Needless to say, that experiment has failed miserably.545    Independent venues have been crushed.546    Artists have lost leverage.547    Fans are paying more than ever--and getting blamed for it.548    Should Ticketmaster and Live Nation be broke up?549    Probably.550    Would that alone fix things? I'm not sure it would.551    But I am sure of this: no artist should be forced to sell their552tickets without a say in who sells them and how they are sold.553    What other business in America doesn't control or have a say in its554own inventory?555    If artists had real choice, real competition would follow. And556tickets would end up in the hands of real fans--at the prices the557artists set.558    Its no secret this industry is full of greedy snakes and559scoundrels. Too many suits lining their pockets off talent they never560had and fans they mislead.561    The truth is, much of this could have been or will be solved562through technology--especially proof-of-humanity tools. It hasn't563happened yet because there's just too much money in the secondary564ticket market.565    Ticketing companies didn't fail to stop this--it seems they chose566not too.567    Meanwhile, this problem has been addressed with much success over568seas.569    In parts of Europe, resale ticket prices are capped. And it seems570to be working. I've been advocating for a 10 percent cap here in the571States, and in fairness, Ticketmaster and Live Nation have supported a572cap on the resale of a ticket. Where I'm confused is I don't think573Ticketmaster needs a law passed to do this? If that's true, than it574only proves these companies have been reactive, not proactive.575    I would employ Congress to subpoena the contracts and deals between576the artists/promoters/buildings/ticketing companies/agencies and577vendors because as I understand it, you will find mountains of fraud578and abuse.579    My position and solutions are as follows:580581  1:  Artists should control who sells their tickets and HOW.582583  2:  Resale ticket price caps work and protect real fans.584585  3:  The Bots Act should be enforced, brokers and bad actors must be586        stopped and all should face serious penalties and consequences587588    All-in pricing is great but it doesn't fix the system.589    Outlawing speculative ticketing is obvious. The problem is that590ticketing lobbyists push these reforms as cover--while fighting to keep591tickets in an `open market' that lets them exploit fans under the guise592of capitalism. Don't be fooled by these tactics.593    Congress and many others have been fooled since the mid 90s.594    Fooled again in 2009, so on and so forth.595    This wasn't an experiment--it was a monopoly dressed up as596innovation.597    So I'll close now with the words of one of my favorite rock bands,598The Who: and say it is my sincere hope599    ``We won't get fooled again.''600    Thank you and Rock on.601602    Senator Blackburn. Mr. Wall, you are recognized for five603minutes.604605        STATEMENT OF DAN WALL, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT,606607               CORPORATE AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS,608609                   LIVE NATION ENTERTAINMENT610611    Mr. Wall. Thank you, Chairman Blackburn, Ranking Member612Hickenlooper, and other members of the Subcommittee. I am Dan613Wall, Executive Vice President for Corporate and Regulatory614Affairs at Live Nation.615    I thank you for the invitation to appear today. Just like616the members of this subcommittee, we love the live617entertainment experience, the magic of the show or the big618game, and we are proud of our contribution to the explosive619growth in the industry.620    Today, there are more shows than ever before, more artists621touring, and more tickets available to fans at every price622point.623    We are also proud that Live Nation and Ticketmaster have624led the industry in working with artists in particular, and625finding solutions to the problems in the ticketing marketplace626that frustrate fans.627    We are proud that our resale marketplace stands alone in628putting the interests of artists and fans first, in sharp629contrast to the ticket broker-driven business models of the630secondary resellers represented at this table.631    And we actively support public policy initiatives and632reforms on transparency and unfair resale practices, the kinds633of things addressed by the MAIN Event Act and the TICKET Act,634and on these issues Live Nation consistently stands with635artists, with venues, and with fans, and in opposition to636ticket brokers and other resale marketplaces.637    We are acutely aware of the frustrations fans feel about638their ability to get tickets to in-demand shows, the kinds of639things that you mentioned in your opening statement, Madam640Chair.641    How are those--how are so many tickets getting into the642hands of scalpers? Well, the short answer is through an643increasingly sophisticated technology package that is644automating the business of ticket scalping.645    For a long time, we thought of this as the bots problem,646and that remains a problem. Through Senator Blackburn's647leadership, the principal law on this subject is the BOTS Act648of 2016.649    The problem is only escalating. Our data shows an650extraordinary escalation in bot attacks. Four years ago in6512022, we were blocking roughly 37 million bots per day. Yet, in652the fourth quarter of 2025 alone, we blocked 566 million bots653per day on average.654    That is a 15-fold increase in three years and, obviously,655we cannot block that many unless we are being attacked by that656many or more.657    And the problem is not just bots. We are facing a658proliferation of ticket harvesting technologies. The scalper's659technological toolkit has expanded and now includes software660that allows users to manage multiple browsing sessions661simultaneously, proxy services that mask a user's true IP662address, and software that creates a massive number of fake663ticket accounts.664    Incredibly, Ticketmaster now receives up to 25 million665account sign-up attempts every day, 99.7 of which we reject666because our technologies determine they are not real fans.667    We are fighting back with the most sophisticated defenses668out there, including most recently identity verification, which669is the technology that Kid Rock mentioned.670    Live Nation is also giving artists new and powerful tools671to fight scalping such as our face value exchange, a service672that permits tickets to be sold for what the first purchaser673paid and no more.674    We know, as the Chair has said many times, that doing all675of this and addressing these problems is our job. We do not676shirk that responsibility at all.677    We, in fact, are stepping up to it like never before, and678yet our artists and fans still need help, which we hope will be679the focus of this hearing.680    Now, I know that some of you will want to ask about the681FTC's lawsuit against Ticketmaster for allegedly violating the682BOTS Act. My October 17 letter to Senators Blackburn and Lujan683goes into this in some detail.684    What I want to say now, Madam Chair, especially to you and685Senator Lujan, is that your letter to our company after the686lawsuit was filed did get us thinking about this as more than a687legal issue between us and the FTC.688    You pointedly asked us why Ticketmaster allows brokers to689maintain multiple accounts and use them to join on sales to buy690tickets. That prompted us to take a harder look at our own691policies and implement changes that we hope creates a better692experience for fans.693    We have made big changes. Ticketmaster policy is now to694limit everyone and every entity, ticket brokers included, to695only one Ticketmaster account.696    We will no longer let any broker maintain, buy concert697tickets with, or post resale tickets for concerts using more698than one account, and we will not allow any broker to post more699tickets on our resale marketplace than the posted ticket limit700for the show.701    In closing, I submit to you the real question is how we are702going to get others to do the same thing. The broker-first703resale sites will never do this voluntarily. Their business is70480 to 100 percent broker driven. About 3 percent of our income705comes from the resale of concert tickets.706    So when you look at it from that perspective, the question707is what can we do to get them to comply.708    Thank you.709    [The prepared statement of Mr. Wall follows:]710711    Prepared Statement of Daniel M. Wall, Executive Vice President,712   Corporate and Regulatory Affairs, Live Nation Entertainment, Inc.713    Chairman Blackburn, Ranking Member Hickenlooper, Senator Lujan, and714other Members of the Subcommittee, I'm Dan Wall, Executive Vice715President for Corporate and Regulatory Affairs at Live Nation716Entertainment, Inc. I thank you for the invitation to appear today to717address important issues in the live entertainment industry.718    We are grateful that this subcommittee--particularly its719leadership--includes many long-time advocates for the live event720industry and the millions of fans who attend our events.721    The issues we are here to discuss are very important to Live Nation722and Ticketmaster, and to me personally. All of us at Live Nation and723Ticketmaster love the live entertainment experience--the magic of the724show or the big game. And we are proud of our contribution to the725explosive growth of the industry. Today, there are:726727   More shows than ever before728729   More artists touring at every level730731   More consumer choice--from $25 lawn seats to full-blown VIP732        experiences733734   More innovation in production and performance--creating735        once-in-a-lifetime memories for millions of fans736737    Yet we are also acutely aware of the many frustrations fans feel738about their ability to get tickets to the most popular shows--739especially when, somehow, tickets to those shows are showing up on740resale sites at enormous markups. In fact, because of the practice741called speculative ticketing, they appear to be available on many742resale sites even before there has been an onsale.743    So how are so many tickets getting in the hands of scalpers? The744short answer is through increasingly sophisticated ticket harvesting745technologies.746    For many years we have talked about this as the bots problem. And747through Senator Blackburn's leadership, as well as others on this748subcommittee including Senators Moran and Lujan, the principal749legislation we have on this subject is the BOTS Act of 2016. Bots are750essentially automated purchase scripts that can complete the process of751buying a ticket much faster than any human. They also swarm onsales at752massive scale. Ticketmaster has been routinely fending off millions of753bots for years, but the scale of the bots problem today is remarkable.754Our data show that throughout 2022 we were blocking roughly 1.1 billion755bots per month, 37 million bots per day. While those are large numbers,756they are a fraction of what we are experiencing today. By 2024, blocks757had increased to 6.8 billion per month, or 227 million per day. And758then we get to 2025, where in the fourth quarter alone, just three759months, we blocked 51 billion malicious bots or 566 million bots per760day on average. Put it all together and since 2022, blocks have761increased by over 3,600 percent.762    We are proud that our Fraud and Abuse teams have improved their763game to the point that we can block hundreds of millions of bots every764day. It is an incredible achievement. Yet we can only block hundreds of765millions of bots every day because we are being attacked by hundreds of766millions of bots every day. That is the root of the problem: there is767an industry of scalper accomplices directing massive bot attacks at us768all the time.769    Bots are also only one technique the scalping industry uses to770intercept tickets that artists want to sell to real fans. Last year, in771our Comments in response to President Trump's Executive Order on772Combating Unfair Practices in the Live Entertainment Market, we called773attention to the proliferation of ticketing harvesting technologies.774Among the many tools that are now available to ticket scalpers are:775776        Browser Extensions and Multi-Session Tools: Software that777        allows users to manage multiple browsing sessions778        simultaneously.779780        Proxy Services: Tools that mask a user's true IP address and781        location.782783        Virtual Credit Card Services: Enterprise payment platforms that784        generate multiple virtual credit card numbers and billing785        addresses.786787        Tools to Evade SafeTix Protections: Used to transfer tickets788        meant to be non-transferable and conceal ticket transfer789        patterns that we use as a signal of a bad actor.790791        Data Scraping and Analysis Tools: Software for gathering and792        analyzing ticket availability and pricing data.793794        Comprehensive Resale Platforms: Integrated solutions for large-795        scale reselling including technology that automates pricing,796        selling and delivery.797798    One of the manifestations of this new technology is that we are now799facing large-scale efforts to create Ticketmaster accounts and800obfuscate their ownership. Those numbers are staggering too.801Ticketmaster now receives up to 25 million account sign-up attempts802every day, 99.7 percent of which we reject because our technologies803determine these are not real fans. Over the past two years, our systems804have prevented more than one billion fraudulent account creations,805systematically dismantling bot network infrastructure before it can806impact fans. We are now in the process of aggressively using our latest807risk models to identify existing Ticketmaster accounts that are likely808not owned by real fans and disabling their ability to purchase tickets.809As part of that program, we use an identify verification technology to810give the owners of the suspect accounts an opportunity to prove they811are real humans, and what we find is that well over 90 percent of the812time whoever owns these accounts does not even try to pass identify813verification. They abandon the account and we shut it down. In the814recent past, over 2 million accounts were shut down through this815process and related initiatives.816    As Ticketmaster fights to keep the bad actors at bay, we are also817using our account scoring and queue-ordering systems to elevate real818fans to the front of our queues. In the past two years we have819substantially improved the fan attendance rate and the probability that820accounts at the front of our queues are real fans has increased by 66821percent. Accounts at the front of the queue are now nearly two times822more likely to attend the show than those at the end of the queue, a823direct reflection of our improved abuse modeling. Unfortunately, the824scalpers are trying to undermine this effort as well. They are825funneling tickets they acquire through a third-party service that hides826the transfer from us so that we think the original purchaser attended827the show. I can assure you we are working on this right now.828    We are also seeing more artists embrace our Face Value Exchange, a829service that allows artists to restrict transfers to a marketplace that830only permits tickets to be sold for what the first purchaser paid.831Despite extensive efforts by scalpers and other resale marketplaces to832hack the system, Face Value Exchange dramatically reduces scalping.833There was clear evidence of this during Billie Eilish's 2025 tour. Ms.834Eilish turned on Face Value Exchange in every state she could, but not835in three states (NY, IL and CO) where there are anti-artist laws that836do not allow restrictions on ticket transfers. Where Face Value837Exchange was not used, we saw a 40 percent rate for full-order838transfers (i.e., every ticket purchased in a transaction was839transferred to someone else, a strong signal that a ticket broker840bought those tickets). In contrast, where Face Value Exchange was used,841the rate of full-order transfers dropped to just 5 percent. And yes,842scalpers are trying to undermine Face Value Exchange too. Everything843that works to protect the intended artist-fan connection gets targeted844by the scalpers.845The FTC's BOTS Act Case846    I want to address briefly the FTC's lawsuit against Ticketmaster847for allegedly violating the BOTS Act. My October 17, 2024, letter to848Senators Blackburn and Lujan goes into this at some detail, so I will849try to keep these remarks succinct.850    We were both surprised and disappointed by this lawsuit since851Ticketmaster is, without question, the principal target of the bad852actors that use bots and related technological exploits to acquire853tickets for resale. We think it is clear from the legislative history854of the BOTS Act that it was meant to help primary ticketing companies855fight off the bots by adding a layer of legal protections to the856technological defenses we put up to stop ticket harvesting. Prior to857the FTC's lawsuit, we never conceived of the BOTS Act as creating any858obligations for Ticketmaster, and we did not think that brokers buying859tickets with multiple accounts was, by itself, a BOTS Act violation.860    Instead, we understood the BOTS Act to be a first but important861step in addressing the growing problem of ticket scalpers using862technological exploits to buy substantial volumes of tickets from863primary ticketing companies like Ticketmaster. To that end, the BOTS864Act makes it unlawful for any person ``to circumvent a security865measure, access control system, or other technological control or866measure'' that a primary ticketing company uses ``to enforce posted867event ticket purchasing limits or to maintain the integrity of posted868online ticket purchasing order rules.'' The act of circumventing a869technological control is illegal on its own. But then a companion870section makes it illegal ``to sell or offer to sell'' any ticket871acquired through circumvention if the seller participated in the872circumvention, controlled the circumvention, or ``knew or should have873known that the event ticket was acquired'' through circumvention. Here874is a graphical representation of how we understand the statute works.875876[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]877878    At its core, the BOTS Act targets three things a scalper might do:879it might circumvent our controls itself, it might get someone else to880circumvent our controls, and it will sell or at least try to sell the881tickets acquired through circumvention.882    The FTC case is based on a fundamentally novel and expansionist883view of the BOTS Act that makes it illegal for ticket buyers to884circumvent ticket limits--full stop--not just technological controls885protecting ticket limits. They have written ``technological controls or886measures'' out of the statute, deeming that unnecessary to finding887circumvention. And upon that foundation, they claim that whenever a888secondary ticketing marketplace sees that an individual or entity is889posting more tickets than the one-account ticket limit, the marketplace890knows there has been circumvention and therefore also violates the BOTS891Act.892    We respectfully disagree that the number of tickets one is selling893shows that the seller ``circumvent[ed] a security measure, access894control system, or other technological control or measure'' in the895course of acquiring those tickets. Indeed, the FTC's position is that896we allowed these purchases, which obviates the need for the buyer to897circumvent anything. Furthermore, the FTC's position leads to the898implausible conclusion that the vast majority of all concert ticket899resales are in violation of the BOTS Act--especially the sales on900StubHub, SeatGeek and Vivid Seats.901    The reason for this is because the FTC's real complaint is that902ticket brokers use multiple accounts to buy tickets. That much is true.903Ticket brokers have had multiple accounts for a very long time--long904before Ticketmaster entered the secondary ticketing business in 2014,905and even before StubHub created the first successful secondary ticket906marketplace in the early 2000s. This practice harkens back to the days907of physical tickets, when ticket brokers would often have a number of908employees or others paid to stand in line and purchase concert909tickets--a practice that was generally accepted in the industry.910Similarly, it was generally accepted that a broker with multiple911employees could have each person hold an account and separately912purchase tickets. All this can be done legitimately under the rules of913the primary ticketing companies without having to resort to any914unlawful behavior or technological circumventions.915    One also needs to understand that ticket resale is dominated by916broker inventory. StubHub, SeatGeek and Vivid Seats live and die by917ticket brokers, getting 80 to 100 percent of their inventory from918brokers. And while there are lots of ways brokers acquire inventory,919many plainly illegal, using multiple accounts is one method and not920inherently illegal. To be sure, it has gotten out of hand, especially921since scalpers developed automated tools for creating Ticketmaster922accounts. I will address below what we are doing about that at923Ticketmaster. But my point for now is that if one reads ``technological924controls or measures'' out of the BOTS Act, then every ticket broker925and every resale site has been openly and continuously violating the926BOTS Act since the day it was passed without the FTC raising a finger927to stop it.928    Ironically, just days before the FTC staff revealed their new929theory, we had urged President Trump to support an expansion of the930BOTS Act that was not limited to circumvention of technological931controls. We argued that the required inquiry into whether there is932circumvention of security measures does not capture the full range of933improper ticket harvesting tactics that we face. We have urged an934amendment to the BOTS Act or language in the MAIN Event Act that would935make circumvention of security measures subordinate to a broader936prohibition that makes it unlawful for ticket brokers ``to use or cause937to be used any software application that runs automated tasks over the938Internet to purchase event tickets from an Internet website or online939ticket marketplace.'' Live Nation and Ticketmaster are on the side of a940stronger BOTS Act and aggressive BOTS Act enforcement. That we find941ourselves on the receiving end of a BOTS Act claim is deeply942unfortunate.943Addressing the Proliferation of Broker Accounts944    If nothing else, the FTC's lawsuit has focused attention on the945fact that ticket brokers now have far too many Ticketmaster accounts.946What started as a reasonable and acceptable level of behavior has been947abused, largely through technologies that permit multiple accounts to948be created, hidden and used at scale. It's unfair to artists and fans949and it is time to do something about it.950    My October 17 letter to Senators Blackburn and Lujan announced a951series of steps Ticketmaster is taking to address this issue.952953  1.  Ticketmaster policy is now to limit everyone and every entity,954        ticket brokers included, to only one Ticketmaster account.955956  2.  We will no longer let any broker maintain, buy concert tickets957        with, or post resale tickets for concerts using more than one958        account.959960  3.  We will not allow any broker to post more tickets on our resale961        marketplace than the posted ticket limit for the show. To that962        end, we now require every account that wishes to post tickets963        for resale on Ticketmaster to have a unique Taxpayer964        Identification Number (SSN or EID).965966    Enforcing these new policies effectively is and will remain967exceedingly difficult; I do not want to understate that. We know968scalpers will do everything in their power to undermine us, first and969foremost by ramping up their efforts to create and conceal new970portfolios of Ticketmaster accounts. But fortunately, we have new AI971tools, risk models, and identity verification technology that we can972apply to these efforts. We have already made substantial progress, but973this will be an ongoing battle.974Going Forward975    I would be remiss if I did not speak the plain truth that so long976as there is a $10-15 billion ticket resale market in the United States,977we will always be under siege from new and improved scalper technology.978All these problems that plague resale--the bots, speculative ticketing,979the sale of fraudulent tickets, and so much more--are because for-980profit ticket scalping now takes place at an industrial scale. The981resale industry regularly argues that it exists to facilitate fan-to-982fan exchanges--often in sympathetic scenarios such as when a fan gets983ill at the last minute. But that is not what fuels the likes of984StubHub, SeatGeek and Vivid Seats. These sites exist to serve ticket985brokers first and foremost. And the fuel of this industry is that,986without putting on a show or paying artists a dime, the broker can on987average resell a concert ticket for twice its face value, and on every988such transaction these resale sites are getting a 25-40 percent989commission from the buyer--a commission far larger than the 5-7 percent990``take rate'' that Ticketmaster gets for its share of service fees on991primary tickets.992    These resale markets cry out for reform. We need clear, legally993enforceable rules that in the first place put the content creators--994artists, teams, etc.--in charge of what happens to the tickets to their995events. If they want to ban resale, they should be able to do so996without interference from state or Federal laws. If they want to permit997resale, but under conditions, that is their right as well. There should998be a unitary Federal law on this, preempting inconsistent state laws.999It should completely ban speculative ticketing, fake ticket listings1000and deceptive websites. Whether by amending the BOTS Act or passing the1001MAIN Event Act, we should ban all forms of automated ticket harvesting.1002We appreciate there are competing points of view on this and no easy1003answers, but the unregulated resale markets we have now are not working1004for artists or fans.1005    Thank you again for inviting us to participate in today's hearing.10061007    Senator Blackburn. Mr. Berry, you are recognized for 51008minutes.10091010         STATEMENT OF BRIAN BERRY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,1011                      TICKET POLICY FORUM10121013    Mr. Berry. Thank you, Chairwoman Blackburn and members of1014the Subcommittee.1015    My name is Brian Berry and I serve as Executive Director of1016the Ticket Policy Forum. Thank you for inviting me.1017    First and foremost, we appreciate the Committee's work on1018the TICKET Act and the MAIN Event Act. The Ticket Policy Forum1019represents America's leading online ticket marketplaces--1020StubHub, SeatGeek, Vivid Seats, Gametime, TickPick, and Events1021Ticket Center.1022    Importantly, these companies are not just resale1023marketplaces. The world has evolved. They each have unique1024business models, but several of them seek to challenge the1025status quo in so-called primary ticketing and are directly1026working with teams, venues, and promoters to give fans better1027access to tickets and much better access to technology, and to1028give these partners in the industry enhanced options when it1029comes to the distribution of tickets.1030    To be candid, real progress in breaking through and getting1031into the primary ticket has been tough--I do not need to tell1032you that--mostly because the monopoly makes it that way, as the1033Justice Department has detailed in its complaint against Live1034Nation and Ticketmaster.1035    As an industry, however, we get fans into the events they1036love. We help to ensure no seat goes empty. It is our1037obsession.1038    Our member marketplaces serve tens of millions of fans1039every year, providing safe, guaranteed ticket transactions and1040trusted options when it comes to both buying and selling1041tickets.1042    Further, we are proud that our online marketplaces brought1043ticket resale off of street corners where fraud and1044counterfeits were rampant and into the online space where they1045are protected, it is transparent, it is tax paying the way it1046should be.1047    There is one thing that nearly every one of us will agree1048on and that is that the system, including the ticketing1049segment, should work better for fans. Too often, for reasons1050long before a ticket is even manifested or put on sale, fans1051are set up to feel confused, frustrated, and shut out entirely.1052    But blaming ticket resale for all the problems in this1053system, ticket resale being the very end of the chain,1054completely misses the mark.1055    Significant harm to fans originates at the source in the1056currently rigged system where one dominant player maintains its1057powerful grip today over artist management, promotion and1058tours, venue operations and venue ownership, venue ticketing,1059primary ticketing, and ticket resale.1060    This committee and the Executive Branch have repeatedly1061studied this issue and reached several important conclusions1062about how to improve the fan experience. So I would like to1063tell you about that. There are four items.1064    Number one, the FTC now requires all-in upfront pricings so1065that fans are no longer misled about what the cost of their1066tickets will be. We can all agree that it took too long, but it1067was the right outcome.1068    The Department of Justice, as you know, has sued Live1069Nation and Ticketmaster repeatedly, has readdressed consent1070decrees, and now will begin one of the biggest monopoly trials1071of our lifetimes along with 40 state attorneys general.1072    Please, Department of Justice, stay the course and finish1073the job. Congress, Madam Chair, as you know, passed the BOTS1074Act and the FTC is investigating and suing several alleged1075violators, including Ticketmaster.1076    The FTC should continue to enforce the BOTS Act and we1077agree the Act could benefit from enhancements to help with1078enforcement through the MAIN Event Act, and in part, thanks to1079this committee's leadership, the House of Representatives1080passed the TICKET Act to address things we can all agree upon--1081refund protection, deceptive websites, and deceptive1082speculative tickets.1083    This committee passed it by voice vote. Now, this bill if1084it were to become law would require significant re-engineering1085and investment and change from our member marketplaces.1086    We accept that. We embrace that because it is the right1087thing to do for the fan. We urge this committee to send it to1088the President to be signed into law.1089    You are going to hear a lot of disagreement today. However,1090there is far more, believe me, that the four of us sitting here1091agree on than we disagree on.1092    Go after illegal bots. Ban deceptive websites and ban1093deceptive speculative ticketing. Our platforms support stronger1094fan protections that include more transparency, less deception,1095and more enforcement of fraud and abuse.1096    What we cannot support and do not, however, is completely1097locking fans out with other options, eliminating legitimate1098resale, driving resale into fraudulent black markets, and1099giving more monopolistic control to one company under the false1100banner of reform.1101    I encourage you to resist framing this debate about a zero-1102sum fight between good and bad players because the fight is1103about the fan. For the consumer, it is about banning bots,1104against deception, and against fraud.1105    Thank you.1106    [The prepared statement of Mr. Berry follows:]11071108        Prepared Statement of Brian Berry, Executive Director,1109                          Ticket Policy Forum1110    Chairwoman Blackburn, Ranking Member Hickenlooper, and members of1111the Subcommittee: My name is Brian Berry, and I serve as Executive1112Director of the Ticket Policy Forum. Thank you for inviting me to1113testify on the vital role that secondary ticket markets play in the1114live event ecosystem.1115    The Ticket Policy Forum represents America's leading online ticket1116marketplaces: StubHub, SeatGeek, Vivid Seats, TickPick, Gametime, and1117Events Ticket Center. Importantly, these companies are not just resale1118platforms. Several of them seek to challenge the status quo in so-1119called primary ticketing and are working directly with teams, venues,1120and promoters to give fans better access, better technology and user1121experiences, and expanded choice for ticketing distribution partners.1122But real progress has been tough, mostly because the dominant player1123(who controls around 80 percent or more of major concert venue1124ticketing) keeps getting in the way and, as the Justice Department1125details, allegedly bullies venues into utilizing its services. Bottom1126line: competition in primary ticketing isn't just small, it remains1127fragile.1128    Our member marketplaces serve tens of millions of happy fans every1129year, providing safe, guaranteed ticket transactions, real competition1130in pricing and service, and trusted options when it comes to buying and1131selling tickets. We are proud that our online marketplaces brought1132resale off street corners where fraud and counterfeits were rampant,1133and into the world of transparent, protected, tax-paying e-commerce.1134    There is one thing nearly everyone agrees on: the entire live1135events ecosystem, including the ticketing segment, should work better1136for fans. Too often, for reasons that begin long before a ticket is put1137on sale, fans can feel confused, frustrated, or shut out entirely. But1138access to tickets is just the result of a long chain of events,1139relationships, and industry power plays that have been the subject of1140deep investigation. Therefore, we caution the Subcommittee to avoid1141defaulting to convenient scapegoats rather than digging deeper into the1142facts. Blaming ticket resale for all problems in ticketing misses the1143mark. Significant fan harm originates at the source in the currently1144rigged system designed and dominated by a single, vertically integrated1145monopoly that maintains a powerful grip over artist management, event1146promotion, venue operations, and ticketing.1147    Problems in ticketing have been repeatedly studied over the last1148two decades by lawmakers, industry, consumer advocates, and regulators.1149This process reached several important conclusions about how to improve1150the fan experience and, as a result:11511152   The FTC now requires all-in, upfront pricing so fans are not1153        confused or misled about the price of tickets they are1154        purchasing. We can all agree this took too long, but it's the1155        right outcome.11561157   The Department of Justice has sued Live Nation/Ticketmaster1158        repeatedly, agreed to several consent decrees to change how1159        Live Nation/Ticketmaster operates, and soon a break-up monopoly1160        trial will begin where the DOJ is joined by a bipartisan group1161        of 40 state attorneys general. The Department of Justice should1162        stay on the case until the job is done.11631164   Congress passed the BOTS Act, and the FTC is investigating1165        and suing several alleged violators, including Ticketmaster.1166        The FTC should keep enforcing the BOTS Act, and we agree that1167        the Act could benefit from updates to improve enforcement.11681169   In part, thanks to this Committee's years of leadership, The1170        House of Representatives passed the overwhelmingly bipartisan1171        TICKET Act to address refund protection, deceptive websites,1172        and speculative ticket offers. We urge the Committee to push1173        the Senate to send the TICKET Act to the President's desk. That1174        would be a monumentally important accomplishment.11751176    Finishing this work--from the DOJ and FTC lawsuits to Congress and1177the TICKET Act--will usher in the most significant live event ticket1178reforms since tickets first went online.1179    I should note that enactment of the TICKET Act will require1180investment and change across the industry, including from our member1181companies. We accept that because it will improve the market in a way1182that benefits fans.1183    As aforementioned, our platforms support stronger fan protections1184that include more transparency, less deception, and more enforcement1185against fraud and abuse. What we do not support are policies that1186restrict legitimate resale, eliminate consumer choice, or further1187entrench monopolistic control under the false banner of reform.1188    Policymakers should resist framing ticketing reform as a zero-sum1189fight between ``good'' and ``bad'' players. The real divide in1190ticketing reform is not between primary and secondary markets. It's1191between systems that empower fans and systems that lock them into a1192single platform with no alternatives.1193SECONDARY MARKETS CLEANED UP RESALE AND COUNTERFEITS1194    Twenty-five years ago, buying or selling resale tickets could be a1195gamble. If you couldn't make an event, you were often stuck with the1196ticket and there was no simple way to resell it. Ticketholders would1197scramble at the last minute to find a friend, coworker, or neighbor to1198take the seat. If that didn't work, the ticket (and your money) went to1199waste, and the event venue ended up with empty seats.1200    Meanwhile, fans trying to buy tickets outside of supposedly sold-1201out events had no safe options. You would have to give cash to a1202stranger on a street corner or meet someone whom you found in a sketchy1203online forum. No guarantees, no refunds, and no accountability. It was1204common to end up with counterfeit tickets.1205    Legitimate resale platforms changed that. Starting in 2000, StubHub1206introduced real consumer protections, including money-back guarantees,1207secure payment processing, and delivery verification, that simply1208didn't exist before. Other companies, including our members, also then1209entered the market to meet a significant consumer need and demand: safe1210and reliable access to tickets in a way that empowered fans. What was1211once a shadowy transaction is now one of the most transparent, secure,1212and flexible ways to attend a live event.1213    Online marketplaces don't just protect buyers, they empower ticket1214holders too. With just a few clicks, a season ticket holder who can't1215make one game out of 40 can set a price and instantly reach thousands1216of interested fans. What used to be a frustrating, local-only problem1217is now a global opportunity to recover costs and pass the experience on1218to someone else.1219    This has leveled the playing field. Someone in Colorado can now1220sell a ticket to a buyer from Tennessee visiting Red Rocks Amphitheater1221for the first time. A fan who missed the initial on-sale, be it a1222teacher or nurse who couldn't leave work and be on their computer1223screen at 10:00 am, now has other options to see their favorite artist.1224``Sold out'' no longer means inaccessible.1225    And here's the most important part: the buyer determines the price.1226Sellers can list tickets at whatever amount they are willing to accept,1227but the transaction only happens when a fan decides what the ticket is1228actually worth to them. If you see an over-priced ticket listed on a1229marketplace, it is there for a reason--it hasn't sold, isn't worth it,1230and may likely never sell at or near the overvalued listed price.1231THE SECONDARY RESALE MARKET SAVES FANS MILLIONS1232    The resale market not only improves access to events, it also1233frequently improves affordability. Contrary to popular myths, many1234resale tickets sell for below face value, often well below face value--1235especially as the event approaches. The headlines focus on the Taylor1236Swift or BTS tours--but there are countless affordable shows, sports1237games, theatre and comedy shows that don't make for a flashy story.1238    According to the American Consumer Institute Center for Citizen1239Research, in 2024, lower cost resale tickets were sold for 62 percent1240of events when compared to their original box office purchase price.1241The total value of savings was $414 million across 10.4 million tickets1242sold for below cost. The average savings was $40 per ticket and the1243average ticket price reduction over time (from the public on-sale to1244the final month before the event) was $29. Generally speaking, on the1245secondary resale market, offered prices dip by about one-third from the1246month when the event goes on sale and the final month before the event.1247    From last-minute plans or bargain-seeking fans, resale platforms1248drive downward pricing pressure that benefits consumers, boosts1249attendance, and helps fill seats in venues around the country.1250    Thanks to TPF member companies, the result is a more flexible,1251competitive and transparent ticket industry where fans can browse1252tickets from their phones at their convenience, compare prices across1253platforms, and purchase with confidence. Thanks to these companies,1254fans are not held captive to one dominant company anymore. Instead,1255fans have alternatives and can comparison shop based on price and1256availability.1257A BROKEN SYSTEM HELD HOSTAGE BY MONOPOLY POWER1258    Today's fans pay the price for a live event ticketing system that1259is broken. It is broken because one company, Live Nation/Ticketmaster,1260wields unprecedented market power over every aspect of the ticketing1261supply chain--from artist management to venue operations, from primary1262ticket sales to secondary ticket resale, and even down to the1263concessions sold at the show. This is not an allegation, it is an1264observable, measurable reality demonstrated by the DOJ's and 40 state1265attorneys general bringing a far-reaching antitrust lawsuit in 20241266against Live Nation/Ticketmaster. The case is scheduled to go to trial1267five weeks from now, on March 2nd, in the United States District Court1268in the Southern District of New York.1269    According to data in the DOJ's complaint and according to the1270Department's lawyers at a recent hearing, Live Nation/Ticketmaster1271controls more than 265 concert venues in North America and manages more1272than 400 music artists. The data assert that Live Nation Entertainment1273also controls about 87 percent of the concert ticketing market through1274its Ticketmaster subsidiary and more than 65 percent of the concert1275promotion market through Live Nation. And don't forget: Ticketmaster is1276also among the largest ticket resale platforms, and is actively seeking1277to dominate resale just as it has primary ticketing.1278    Being such a dominant vertically integrated entity gives Live1279Nation/Ticketmaster free rein to abuse its monopoly power, and it does1280just that. Venues interested in using ticketing systems other than1281Ticketmaster report that Live Nation, in true predatory fashion, has1282threatened to withhold or limit how often and when Live Nation-promoted1283artists will appear in their buildings. Ticketmaster contracts are1284typically exclusive, multi-year, and structured to punish defection to1285rivals. In fact, DOJ attorneys argue that venues that left Ticketmaster1286in favor of another ticket seller ended up losing about five concerts1287per year promoted by Live Nation, which meant losing a combined $1.51288million in revenue, or more than $300,000 per event. These Live Nation/1289Ticketmaster exclusive agreements, and how they are leveraged, are the1290keystone of a vertically integrated monopoly that chokes off1291competition at every stage and level of the live event industry.1292    This vertical dominance means Live Nation/Ticketmaster is not1293merely a player--it is the rule maker, the gatekeeper, and the toll1294collector. No artist can tour at scale without navigating Live Nation/1295Ticketmaster's murky ecosystem. No venue can reasonably opt out without1296significant risk of losing shows. And fans can barely avoid them, if at1297all.1298Ticketmaster leverages its technology to abuse fans and foreclose1299        competition1300    The DOJ also alleges that Ticketmaster's use of its SafeTix anti-1301fraud and anti-counterfeit technology is used to shut out rivals. With1302SafeTix, tickets are confined within Ticketmaster's app with frequently1303changing QR codes for entry. According to the complaint, internal Live1304Nation/Ticketmaster documents show that one motivation behind SafeTix1305and making tickets non-transferable was to make it harder for ticket1306buyers and sellers to use alternative or rival secondary ticket1307marketplaces. This means that consumers, whether they are buying or1308selling, are locked into whatever fees Ticketmaster charges.1309    Ticketmaster's behavior with SafeTix is evidence that the1310technology serves the company for purposes beyond fraud prevention. The1311complaint cites internal remarks describing non-transferable digital1312tickets as a ``game-changer'' and a ``product enhancement . . . for1313market share'' suggesting SafeTix was intended to expand Ticketmaster's1314control over both primary ticket sales and the resale market.1315    Restricting Ticketmaster's ability to abuse its technology to lock-1316in consumers and create uncertainty--such that consumers feel1317discouraged from buying and selling from its rivals--will hopefully be1318one of the outcomes of the DOJ lawsuit, if not by FTC action or an act1319of Congress. Ticketmaster should not be empowered to cancel or1320invalidate tickets that it previously sold but that were resold on a1321rival's platform. Consumers feel the greatest harm when Ticketmaster1322does this, leaving them fearful of buying from other ticketing1323platforms and being stranded outside of events despite holding1324legitimate tickets.1325    Since the Live Nation/Ticketmaster merger in 2010, the average1326price of concert tickets has risen by over 120 percent--a figure that1327significantly outpaces inflation. But it's not just about higher1328prices. It's about how those prices are set and who controls access.1329    Ticketmaster was found by enforcers to routinely and secretly hold1330back ticket inventory from the public on-sale. Often these hold backs1331are directed by the event promoter Live Nation. According to a report1332by the NY Attorney General's Office, it is common for half of a popular1333concert's tickets to secretly be held back. Overall, less than half (461334percent) are reserved for the general public. For some concerts, the1335percentage of tickets made available to the general public was as low1336as 12 percent of total tickets for the event, yet fans are left1337presuming nefarious bots scooped up all the tickets when really they1338remained secretly held-back to deceivingly manufacture scarcity.1339    Consumers without exclusive access to pre-sales or special credit1340cards are abused during the public on-sale of tickets, where they may1341miss work and spend hours in an online waiting room only to be left1342with intentionally opaque options. When the true inventory of tickets1343or the fact that holdbacks are being used is not disclosed to fans, it1344is impossible for consumers to make more informed purchasing decisions.1345    This is not how healthy or pro-consumer markets function. It is not1346how innovation is fostered. And it is not how fans should be treated.1347As the DOJ puts it, ``fans have been denied access to the benefits a1348competitive process would deliver, such as more choices in concerts and1349innovative fan-friendly ticketing options.''1350    Live Nation/Ticketmaster typically deflects criticism by pointing1351to bots or the resale market. But let's be clear: Ticketmaster is deep1352into resale. As the pending antitrust lawsuit makes clear, its goal is1353to monopolize the resale segment of the industry as well. In fact, its1354resale platform brought in $4.5 billion in gross transaction volume in13552022, accounting for nearly one-third of the U.S. resale market.1356    This is not just a ticketing problem. This is a consumer protection1357crisis. Fans are being squeezed from every angle, and the only entity1358that benefits is the monopoly in the middle of almost every1359transaction.1360COMMON GROUND: SUPPORTING THE TICKET ACT1361    Many of the problems experienced in the market are symptoms of the1362harmful, anticompetitive practices of the monopoly. However, that does1363not mean there are no ways to improve the fan experience in the resale1364industry as well. Deceptive practices, such as fake websites that1365masquerade as local venues and deceptive speculative ticketing, harm1366fans and undermine trust in the entire ticketing ecosystem.1367    Ticket Policy Forum proudly supports the bipartisan TICKET Act,1368which passed the House in 2025 with an extraordinary 409 to 15 vote and1369passed the Senate Commerce Committee on a voice vote. This legislation1370addresses many of the real problems fans face:13711372   Requires upfront, all-in pricing so fans know exactly what1373        they'll pay. This codifies the new FTC pricing rules into1374        Federal law.13751376   Cracks down on deceptive websites that masquerade as1377        official venue sites to trick consumers.13781379   Guarantees refunds for canceled shows and provides1380        flexibility for postponed events fans can no longer attend.13811382   Directs the FTC to issue a report on bots and BOTS Act1383        enforcement. To its credit, the FTC has announced enforcement1384        action in the last year, though more is needed.13851386   Bans deceptive speculative ticket sales. Under the TICKET1387        Act, sellers cannot offer tickets for sale unless they have1388        constructive possession of those tickets. This eliminates a1389        practice that has caused harm to consumers.13901391   Creates rules and guardrails for ticket procurement services1392        to ensure such offerings are not co-mingled with actual1393        tickets. This requires such procurement services to be a1394        distinct and separate offering and that these services come1395        with clear and conspicuous disclosure that what is offered is a1396        service and not a ticket (until the ticket is delivered),1397        refund protection and guarantees. These requirements are1398        designed to prevent a fan from being misled in any way. No1399        ticket seller today offers ticket procurement services in the1400        way the TICKET Act would require, but TPF marketplaces have1401        agreed with TICKET Act authors that this approach will mitigate1402        deception and confusion and that such rules should be required.1403        If enacted, platforms will be required to re-engineer their1404        user experience.14051406    The TICKET Act represents a balanced approach that protects1407consumers while preserving competition. It enjoys overwhelming support1408in Congress, within the industry, and among premier consumer protection1409organizations. We urge the Senate to follow the House of1410Representatives and pass this legislation without delay.1411PRICE CONTROLS ARE THE WRONG SOLUTION1412    Some argue resale prices should be capped or controlled by the1413government. Those ideas may sound appealing, but experience shows they1414don't work. Primary sellers increasingly use dynamic pricing for1415selling their tickets, so capping resale while the box office adjusts1416prices higher simply distorts the market. Price controls also create1417enforcement challenges and push transactions into unregulated corners1418of the internet, where fraud thrives and consumer protections vanish.1419This harms fans. In countries like Ireland and Australia, price1420controls on high demand events did not lead to affordable tickets. To1421the contrary, they hurt consumers by fueling shadow markets and scams.1422Notably, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts recently repealed its price1423cap law because it was not viewed as effective, pragmatic or1424enforceable.1425    Legitimate consumer demand cannot be legislatively stifled. When1426safe and reliable marketplaces are restricted, fans won't stop buying1427and reselling. They will just do it somewhere much less safe.1428REFORM REQUIRES REAL COMPETITION AND A BETTER PATH1429    FORWARD1430    The Ticket Policy Forum supports strong, meaningful protections for1431fans. We stand for transparency, less deception, and rigorous1432enforcement against fraud and abuse. We support ongoing Federal efforts1433at the DOJ, Federal Trade Commission (FTC), and in Congress to improve1434the ticketing ecosystem and the fan experience. This includes our1435support for enforcement of the Federal BOTS Act, the bipartisan TICKET1436Act and the FTC's new all-in, upfront pricing rules.1437    What we do not support are policies using ``consumer protection''1438as a trojan horse to restrict legitimate resale, eliminate consumer1439choice, or further entrench monopolistic control under the false banner1440of reform.1441    There is a better path forward, one that protects fans without1442breaking what works. It starts with recognizing basic consumer rights:1443the right to give away or sell a purchased ticket without fear of1444retaliation; the right to enter with a valid ticket regardless of1445whether it was purchased from the box office or repurchased from a1446ticketing marketplace; and the right to meaningful transparency about1447ticket allocation practices and whether dynamic pricing is being used.1448Moreover, deceptive websites that pretend to be the venue or team, or1449undisclosed speculative ticket offers, harm everyone and should be1450banned.1451CONCLUSION1452    We are committed to working with this Subcommittee and with1453Congress and with the Administration in its efforts to improve the live1454events system and fan experience.1455    Thank you.14561457    Senator Blackburn. Mr. Weingarden.14581459              STATEMENT OF DAVID WEINGARDEN, CHAIR14601461           AND CO-FOUNDER, COLORADO INDEPENDENT VENUE14621463ASSOCIATION (CIVA) AND VICE PRESIDENT FOR CONCERTS AND EVENTS,1464                        Z2 ENTERTAINMENT14651466    Mr. Weingarden. Thank you, Chairman Blackburn, Ranking1467Member Hickenlooper, Ranking Member Cantwell, and the members1468of the Subcommittee.1469    My name is David Weingarden, and I am grateful to be here1470to discuss all of this. I am Vice President of Concerts for Z21471Entertainment.1472    We operate three independently owned venues across1473Colorado: the Boulder Theater and Fox Theaters in Boulder,1474Aggie Theater in Fort Collins, and exclusively book several1475more across the state, producing approximately 700 live shows1476annually.1477    We did not choose to become policy advocates. We chose to1478run small businesses, employ local workers, and bring live1479music to our communities. But the scale and aggressiveness of1480the ticket scalping market has left us with no choice but to1481speak up.1482    So what is going wrong? Fans are unnecessarily price gouged1483on reseller sites when cheaper tickets are still available from1484our box office. Billions of dollars in Google ads steer fans1485into the scalping market.1486    StubHub alone spends $800 million annually to have their1487website and ticket listings appear on search engines ahead of1488ours. StubHub had active listings advertising $40 parking1489spaces at the Merriweather Post Pavilion right here.1490    The problem? Parking is free at the Merriweather. Every1491night our box office staff deals with fake tickets that do not1492scan for seats that do not exist for events that were never1493scheduled at all.1494    Ticket Network listed tickets for a Joey Valence and Brae1495show at the Fox Theater. The problem? The show did not exist.1496    One fan paid more than $300 to a scalper for two Big Bad1497Voodoo Daddy tickets at the Boulder Theater, which cost $27 on1498our site. The reseller also promised, quote/unquote,1499``guaranteed first eight rows.''1500    The problem? The show was standing room only. The most1501extreme version of this is what resale sites call ``concierge''1502or ``seat saver'' tickets, which are not tickets at all.1503    Fans are led to believe that they are buying a real seat,1504but they are unknowingly paying overprice for a price gouge1505promise that someone might try to find a ticket later. It is1506purposely deceptive.1507    For example, the Howlin' Wolf in New Orleans was charging1508$10 to a show before a single ticket had been sold. Despite1509that, StubHub was listing a speculative ticket for $964.1510    We found seat saver tickets on Vivid Seats for Beyonce in1511Houston, Atlanta, New Jersey, and Las Vegas for rows at the1512venues that did not exist.1513    This is the core of the concierge model. Charge first,1514source later, maybe. That is why the music industry does not1515support the House TICKET Act as written.1516    It claims to ban speculative tickets but creates loopholes1517that allow this deception to continue under a fancy new name.1518You could not sell a car, a hotel room, or a plane ticket you1519do not own and call it a service. Live shows should not be any1520different.1521    When something goes wrong with these fake tickets and1522overcharged tickets, fans do not blame the scalper who sold it1523to them. They blame the venues and the artists.1524    We are responsible for paying artists, staffing, safety,1525production, payroll, rent, performing rights organizations like1526ASCAP and more.1527    Scalpers and their platforms do not pay any of these costs,1528nothing, and they definitely do not deal with the upset and1529angry fans at the door.1530    At Z2, we have been forced to print out and keep this1531reseller customer support sheet because fans are angry and1532confused that this is quite literally the only thing that we1533can do to help.1534    Anyone who has tried to get help from these sites knows1535that phones do not get answered, e-mails go nowhere, and travel1536expenses are not reimbursed.1537    The question before Congress is not whether fans are being1538harmed. They are. It is whether Federal policy will finally1539catch up to the realities of ticketing in the United States.1540    Congress should ban speculative ticketing with zero1541loopholes for schemes like seat saver, embrace bipartisan1542movement in the states by passing a national ban on resale1543above face value and a cap on outrageous resale fees, ban1544deceptive URLs, spoof websites, and predatory search engine1545advertising.1546    Support the U.S. Department of Justice's effort to break up1547Live Nation and Ticketmaster, and close the BOTS Act1548enforcement gaps by passing the Blackburn-Lujan MAIN Event1549Ticketing Act.1550    Artists should be able to control how their tickets are1551sold, the fans should be able to trust the platforms that they1552use, and independent venues should not have to fight for1553survival while scalpers make billions off of our risk.1554    We need Congress to act now. In an era defined by division,1555live music continues to create connection and common ground.1556Making it affordable for Americans is definitely worth fighting1557for.1558    Thank you for your time.1559    [The prepared statement of Mr. Weingarden follows:]15601561 Prepared Statement of David Weingarden, Vice President of Concerts +1562   Events, Z2 Entertainment & Colorado Independent Venue Association1563Introduction1564    Chairman Blackburn, Ranking Member Hickenlooper, and Members of the1565Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today.1566    My name is David Weingarden, and I am the Vice President of1567Concerts + Events for Z2 Entertainment, an independent live1568entertainment company based in Boulder, Colorado. Z2 owns and operates1569three independently owned venues across Colorado, including the Boulder1570Theater and Fox Theatre in Boulder, the Aggie Theatre in Fort Collins,1571and exclusively book additional venues in Boulder, Steamboat, Frisco.1572Together, we produce approximately 700 live shows each year, featuring1573artists at every stage of their careers.1574    I am here today not only on behalf of Z2, but also representing the1575Colorado Independent Venue Association, which includes more than 1001576locally owned venues across the state. All of these venues and1577festivals are independent rooms ticketed by more than 20 different1578ticketing services. We are also a proud member of the National1579Independent Venue Association, which represents the independently-owned1580venues, festivals, and promoters nationwide.1581    I got into this business because of a love of live music.1582Independent venues exist to bring performance to new audiences, to1583create shared experiences, and to serve as cultural gathering places in1584our communities. We don't do this work because it's easy or highly1585profitable. We do it because live music and performance matters.1586    While independent venues operate on tight margins, our economic1587impact is significant. Across the country, independent stages support1588nearly $52 billion in wages and benefits each year and contribute more1589than $19 billion annually in local, state, and Federal tax revenue.\1\1590In Colorado alone, independent live venues generate approximately $2.31591billion in annual economic output.\2\ Venues like ours are community1592anchors and economic engines but our business model is fragile.1593---------------------------------------------------------------------------1594    \1\ National Independent Venue Association, The 2025 State of Live1595Economic Research Study (2025), https://www.nivassoc.org/stateoflive.1596    \2\ National Independent Venue Association, The 2025 State of Live1597Report: Colorado (2025), https://static1.squarespace.com/static/15985e91157c96fe495a4baf48f2/t/68e5b46c9ce43378989351821599/1759884396101/2025-NIVA-State-of-Live-Report-CO.pdf1600---------------------------------------------------------------------------1601    Artists are typically paid through a guaranteed fee or a percentage1602of ticket sales after show expenses, whichever is greater. Their income1603is directly tied to how many tickets are sold. Venues, meanwhile, rely1604heavily on food and beverage revenue to stay afloat. We staff and1605budget weeks in advance based on ticket sales data, building each show1606carefully to ensure we can pay artists, employ our staff, and keep our1607doors open.1608    When something goes wrong in this ecosystem, the risk falls almost1609entirely on venues and artists. We are responsible for staffing,1610safety, production, payroll, and compliance regardless of what happens1611in the secondary market. Resellers do not share that risk. Yet1612increasingly, the practices of the secondary ticketing industry are1613directly undermining the stability of businesses like ours and truly1614harming the fans we serve.1615Let me begin with several key points:16161617   Fans are being systematically steered into the resale1618        market, where they are overcharged, misled, and frequently sold1619        tickets that do not exist.16201621   Speculative and ``concierge'' tickets are simply ghost1622        tickets, they are not real tickets, and they must be prohibited1623        with no loopholes.16241625   Congress should ban resale above face value and allow for a1626        reasonable fee of no more than 10 percent to be added to cover1627        resale processing costs so that tickets cannot be flipped at1628        extreme markups with unlimited add-on fees.16291630   Congress should also ban resale before the public onsale and1631        prohibit deceptive URLs and spoof websites that impersonate1632        official venue box offices.16331634   Congress should increase oversight of illegal bots by1635        strengthening and enforcing the BOTS Act and by passing the1636        MAIN Event Ticketing Act, a bipartisan bill led by Senator1637        Blackburn and Senator Lujan.16381639   Live Nation leverages their dominant control of tours and1640        artists--with billions in revenue from Ticketmaster to allow1641        them to take losses on shows--to systematically disadvantage1642        independent venues and festivals. Congress should ensure the1643        Administration, the U.S. Department of Justice, and state1644        attorneys general have the support and resources they need to1645        break up Live Nation and Ticketmaster.16461647   The Committee should be skeptical of ``consumer'' groups1648        like the National Consumers League and Sports Fans Coalition as1649        they are financed by resale platforms to lobby against real1650        consumer protections in ticketing.16511652    We are one venue operator from one state, but I speak with1653independent venues and festivals across the country daily. What we are1654seeing is widespread and growing. This is not anecdotal. It is1655systemic, and it deserves a real response that puts people over1656profits.1657What's Going Wrong? The Deceptive Practices Harming My Fans1658    One of the biggest problems we see is price gouging driven by the1659secondary market. Fans regularly pay far more for tickets on secondary1660sites when cheaper tickets are still available directly. That doesn't1661happen because of demand. It happens because fans are pushed into the1662resale market and made to believe the highly inflated prices are their1663only option. In a recent IPO filing, StubHub alone spends more than1664$800 million annually to have their websites and tickets appear on1665search engines ahead of ours.\3\1666---------------------------------------------------------------------------1667    \3\ StubHub Holdings, Inc., Form S-1 Registration Statement (U.S.1668Securities and Exchange Commission), consolidated statements of1669operations, reporting approximately $828 million in sales and marketing1670expenses for the year ended December 31, 2024, https://www.sec.gov/1671Archives/edgar/data/1337634/000119312525060140/d225849ds1.htm1672---------------------------------------------------------------------------1673    This is happening right now in Colorado. As of January 23, 2026,1674there are active listings on StubHub advertising $37 tickets for1675Shakedown Street, a Grateful Dead cover band, performing on February16767th at the Boulder Theater. The problem? The show is free before 9pm.1677As of the same date, StubHub is advertising tickets priced as high as1678$342 for Oh Wonder's April 24th performance at the Boulder Theater,1679even though most seats are still available directly through our1680official box office. In fact, the seat immediately next to one listed1681on StubHub in Floor Section C is available from us for $65.68. That's1682more than 5 times the price for tickets we still have available. Five1683times!1684    In another case this past year, a fan buying tickets to see The1685Devil Makes Three selected what appeared to be a $95 option for two1686tickets, only to receive a confirmation charging $165, with no1687explanation and no added value. These fans didn't do anything wrong.1688They were misled, and by the time they realized it, their money was1689gone and we were left to deal with the fallout.1690    Beyond price gouging, our box office staff deals with speculative1691and fake ticketing every day. These include tickets that don't scan,1692tickets sold multiple times, tickets for seats or sections that don't1693exist, and even tickets for events that were never scheduled at all. At1694the Fox Theatre in Boulder, tickets were advertised and sold online for1695a Joey Valence & Brae show on a date when no such event existed on our1696calendar.\4\ At the Boulder Theater, a fan paid more than $300 for two1697tickets to a Big Bad Voodoo Daddy show that cost $27.50 at our box1698office. The resale site promised ``guaranteed first eight rows,'' even1699though the show was standing room only! The customer ultimately had to1700cancel his entire credit card to avoid charges.1701---------------------------------------------------------------------------1702    \4\ National Independent Venue Association, Letter to Yelp CEO1703Jeremy Stoppelman (Aug. 28, 2024), https://static1.squarespace.com/1704static/5e91157c96fe495a4baf48f2/t/66cf14e95dfd2e539717056dedfb/1724887295053/NIVA+Letter+to+Yelp1706---------------------------------------------------------------------------1707    At the Aggie Theatre in Fort Collins, fans arriving to see1708Champagne Drip had resale tickets that simply would not scan, forcing1709our staff to step in and prove the tickets were invalid just so the1710fans could try to get refunds. And at the Boulder Theater, a fan paid1711$173.50 on a secondary site to see Ladysmith Black Mambazo, only to1712arrive and learn the tickets didn't exist. She purchased valid tickets1713at our box office for $40. These aren't isolated incidents. They are1714daily examples of how speculative ticketing harms fans and leaves1715independent venues to clean up the damage.1716``Seat Saver'' or ``Concierge Services'' Are Actually Ghost Tickets1717    The most extreme version of this is what resale sites now call1718``concierge'' or ``seat saver'' tickets. These are really non-existent1719ghost tickets. They're actually not tickets at all. The seller doesn't1720have the ticket when they sell it. Fans are led to believe they are1721buying a real seat, but they're just paying for a promise that someone1722might try to find a ticket later. This isn't an accident. It's how the1723secondary market keeps selling fake or speculative tickets under a1724nicer name.1725    Resale platforms market these ghost tickets as if they are a1726helpful convenience. In practice, they function as speculative1727ticketing: the seller takes a fan's money before possessing a real1728ticket, then may locate something later or plan to never deliver it at1729all. Scalpers list their ghost ticket at an extreme price (say $1000)1730which is exponentially above the original price (say $100). They use1731their expensive reseller software to scour the Internet and as long as1732they find a ticket below $1000, they've turned a significant profit,1733manipulated the market, and price gouged the consumer. The patterns are1734consistent and documented across the country:17351736   Fake ticket listings appear before any legitimate ticket1737        could exist. For example, a show at Britt Pavilion (Bonnie1738        Raitt, June 3, 2026) was not scheduled to begin member presale1739        until January 26, 2026. Yet a resale listing was already posted1740        on November 17, 2025, offering a ``ticket'' for $453. A1741        consumer cannot resell what no consumer can legally possess.1742        The only way that listing exists is if the seller is1743        speculating, planning to source later, or relying on broker1744        inventory that never went through fair consumer access.\5\1745---------------------------------------------------------------------------1746    \5\ National Independent Venue Association, Independent Venues &1747Festivals Call for U.S. States to Replicate the UK's New Ticket Resale1748Price Cap Policy and to End Speculative Listings (Nov. 19, 2025),1749https://www.nivassoc.org/statements/2025/independent-venues-festivals-1750call-for-us-states-to-replicate-the-uks-new-ticket-resale-price-cap-1751policy-and-to-end-speculative-listings17521753   Speculative sellers manufacture urgency to push fans into1754        overpaying early. For Aimee Mann at Revolution Hall (March 13,1755        2026) in Portland, OR, the first presale was scheduled for1756        November 18, 2025 at 10:00 AM, with public onsale on November1757        21. Yet a resale listing appeared at 8:54 AM on November 18,1758        2025 offering ``tickets'' for $143, paired with a scarcity1759        claim like ``less than 2 percent remaining,'' while the1760        official ticket price was shown as $63.23. This is not a1761        functioning market. It is a pressure tactic built on a listing1762        that should not exist yet.\6\1763---------------------------------------------------------------------------1764    \6\ Same reference as 5.17651766   Speculative sellers set extreme prices on ghost tickets1767        before a single ticket is sold. An internal primary system1768        screenshot for a Rachel is Kozi show at The Howlin' Wolf1769        (October 3, 2025) in New Orleans, LA showed a $10 face value1770        price and zero tickets sold, meaning no inventory was1771        circulating. Despite that, a resale listing was posted on1772        StubHub offering a speculative ticket for $964 while claiming1773        ``Only 1 percent of tickets left.'' That is the core of the1774        ``concierge'' and ``seat saver'' model: charge first, source1775        later, and use fear to justify the markup.\7\1776---------------------------------------------------------------------------1777    \7\ Same reference as 5.17781779   Seats and rows are advertised that do not exist, even for1780        the biggest tours in the world. We have seen ``Seat Saver''1781        resale listings sell ``seats'' that do not exist in the venue,1782        such as seats 9001 to 9004 for a show at The Fitzgerald Theater1783        in St. Paul, MN even though the venue has 1,058 seats and no1784        seat numbers anywhere near the 9000s. We have also seen the1785        same practice scaled up for stadium events, including multiple1786        Beyonce shows where resale listings advertised floor tickets in1787        rows that the primary ticketing seat map does not show at all,1788        such as NRG Stadium in Houston listing Floor Q, Row 22 when the1789        primary map's last listed row is Row 12, Mercedes Benz Stadium1790        in Atlanta listing Floor M, Row 20 when the primary map's last1791        listed row is Row 15, MetLife Stadium listing Floor 12, Row 241792        when the primary map's last listed row is Row 12, and Allegiant1793        Stadium in Las Vegas listing Field A3, Row 25 when the primary1794        map's last listed row is Row 8. These are not minor1795        discrepancies. They are concrete proof that platforms are1796        hosting listings that are not tied to real tickets that could1797        ever exist.\8\1798---------------------------------------------------------------------------1799    \8\ Same reference as 5.18001801    When these ghost tickets fall apart, fans come to our box offices1802desperate for help after they've already spent money on travel, hotel1803rooms, outfits, childcare, and time off work. And there's nothing we1804can do for them. The resale platforms face little to no consequence for1805listing something that was never real in the first place. You couldn't1806sell a car, a hotel room, or a plane ticket you don't own and call it a1807service. Live entertainment shouldn't be any different. Unfortunately,1808the Federal TICKET Act currently explicitly says some of these1809practices should be legal--and that needs to change.1810Negative Impact of The Mounting Resale Deceptive Practices1811    When something goes wrong with these fake and overcharged tickets,1812fans don't blame the scalper who sold it to them from a basement1813halfway across the country. They blame the venues. They come to our box1814offices angry and confused when their ticket doesn't scan or when they1815realize they wildly overpaid. Our staff is the only face they see, so1816we take the hit. We get the bad reviews, and it is our reputation that1817is damaged.1818    At Z2, we've been forced to print out and keep a sheet at our box1819office with customer service contact information for all the major1820resale sites, not because it helps us but because fans are desperate,1821and this is quite literally the only thing we can do to help. Anyone1822who's tried to get help from these sites knows how that goes. 991823percent of the time, phones don't get answered. E-mails go nowhere.1824Fans leave frustrated and that frustration lands squarely on us.1825    The damage doesn't stop there. On the night of a show, we staff as1826if it's sold out: full production, bar, security, and box office. But1827when resellers can't unload their inventory, a show that looked sold1828out on paper is suddenly only 60 to 70 percent full but we don't know1829that until doors open. That means we lose 30 to 40 percent of our1830expected food and bar revenue, while labor costs stay the same. And to1831add a pile of salt on the wound, venues find out weeks later that the1832scalpers claim fraud for what was unsold and are refunded thousands of1833dollars by the credit card companies These `chargebacks' also come with1834a fee, which is paid by the venues. That shortfall comes after the1835show, after the band is paid, after staff is paid, after the lights are1836turned off. And there's no way to make that money back. This amounts to1837stealing, but we have no recourse.1838    Z2 produces around 700 shows a year. That adds up to a massive1839amount of lost revenue, but more importantly, it represents hundreds if1840not thousands of fans who were deceived and left with a worse1841experience. Fewer fans come back. Bar sales drop. Merchandise sales1842drop. Money that should stay with the artist and local businesses1843leaves the community and the state. And increasingly, fans give up1844entirely or look elsewhere, even traveling out of the country for shows1845because 1) it's cheaper and 2) they no longer trust the system here.1846The fans, the venues, the artists, and local economies all lose.1847    Independent venue owners did not choose to become policy advocates.1848We chose to run small businesses, employ local workers, and bring live1849music to our communities. The scale and aggressiveness of today's1850scalping platforms has left us with no choice. The harm to our fans and1851our businesses has become so severe that we have been forced to dig1852into what's happening behind the scenes and engage in policy fights1853simply to protect the people who walk through our doors.1854    That reality hit home in Colorado. As deceptive resale practices1855escalated, well-funded resale interests poured resources into shaping1856state legislation that directly affected our businesses, often without1857independent venues meaningfully included at the table. We watched1858policies, including the scalper-backed Colorado House Bill 24-1378,1859being pushed that favor resale profits over fan protection, even as1860local venues were left dealing with the fallout night after night. That1861experience made one thing clear: this is not just a local problem, and1862it is not accidental.1863    When we followed the money, the same players kept appearing. What1864looks like a scattered, chaotic resale market on the surface is,1865underneath, a highly coordinated and professionalized national1866industry. To understand why independent venues across the country like1867mine are facing the same problems every day, and why government1868intervention is necessary, it's important to understand who is shaping1869the debate, how much money is at stake, and why these companies are1870fighting so hard to preserve the status quo.1871The Multibillion Dollar Industries That Are Harming Our Consumers and1872        Our Business1873    The highly professionalized resale industry extracts enormous1874profits while refusing to operate transparently. The Ticket Policy1875Forum, led by former National Association of Ticket Brokers' lobbyist1876Brian Berry, is a clear example. It is a coalition of the largest1877resale platforms in the country, including StubHub, SeatGeek, TickPick,1878GameTime, Vivid Seats, and Event Tickets Center. These companies are1879not advocating for fans or venues. Their platforms host scalpers and1880they are advocating for their own revenue streams and stock prices--and1881the scale of their profits matters. In 2024, StubHub reported1882approximately $1.77 billion in revenue, and Vivid Seats reported1883roughly $780 million.\9\ \10\ That is more than $2.5 billion from just1884two of the six companies represented by the Ticket Policy Forum.1885---------------------------------------------------------------------------1886    \9\ StubHub's 2024 revenue was approximately $1.77 billion, per the1887company's IPO filing disclosures and reporting on that filing, https://1888www.reuters.com/markets/deals/ticketing-marketplace-stubhub-files-us-1889ipo-2025-03-21/1890    \10\ Vivid Seats reported full-year 2024 revenues of approximately1891$775.6 million, per the company's reported financial results,https://1892investors.vividseats.com/news-releases/news-release-details/vivid-1893seats-reports-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-2024-results-01894---------------------------------------------------------------------------1895    When this coalition opposes reform, it is not protecting1896constituents. It is protecting their profit margins. SeatGeek, Event1897Tickets Center, and GameTime routinely receive some of the lowest1898consumer ratings in the industry, averaging around one out of five1899stars with the Better Business Bureau. If an independent venue treated1900patrons that poorly, it would shut down.1901    These platforms like to argue that they sometimes sell tickets1902below face value. That is fine. We have no quarrel with that and no1903issue with genuine fan-to-fan resale. We understand sometimes fans1904can't make it to shows. But that is not what defines this market.1905According to the U.S. Government Accountability Office, ``professional1906resellers, or brokers, have a competitive advantage over consumers in1907buying tickets as soon as they are released. Brokers can use numerous1908staff and software (`bots') to rapidly buy many tickets. As a result,1909many consumers can buy tickets only on the resale market at a1910substantial markup.'' \11\ This is not a consumer-driven ecosystem. It1911is a professionalized extraction machine.1912---------------------------------------------------------------------------1913    \11\ U.S. Government Accountability Office, Event Ticket Sales:1914Market Characteristics and Consumer Protection Issues, GAO-18-347 (Apr.191512, 2018), https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-18-347.1916---------------------------------------------------------------------------1917    What makes this even more troubling and frustrating is how these1918companies fund and hide behind organizations that masquerade as1919consumer advocates. Across the country, and in Colorado, scalping1920platforms finance groups that lobby against consumer protection reform1921while claiming to speak for fans.\12\ Organizations like the National1922Consumers League, Sports Fans Coalition, Protect Ticket Rights, Fan1923Freedom Project, Coalition for Ticket Fairness, Chamber of Progress,1924and NetChoice have all received funding or direct support from ticket1925resale companies, including StubHub, Vivid Seats, Event Tickets Center,1926and the National Association of Ticket Brokers. These groups lobby1927against bans on speculative tickets, resale price caps, and limits on1928predatory resale practices while marketing themselves as defenders of1929consumers, which could not be further from reality.1930---------------------------------------------------------------------------1931    \12\ Marc Hogan, A Guide to ``Fan'' Organizations Funded by the1932Ticketing Industry, Pitchfork (Aug. 3, 2023), https://pitchfork.com/1933thepitch/consumer-groups-take-money-from-ticketing-industry/.1934---------------------------------------------------------------------------1935    Time and time again, resale companies will not disclose who on1936their platforms are professional resellers. They will not identify1937broker networks. They don't even disclose the username, or business1938name of who is reselling these tickets. And they will not cooperate in1939ways that allow regulators to enforce the law.1940    Instead, they fund front groups to muddy the waters and slow1941reform. Their business model does not improve with transparency. It1942collapses under it. That is why it festers in darkness, purposefully.1943Industrial Resellers With No Skin In the Live Entertainment Game Should1944        Not Be Treated The Same As the Artists and Small Businesses1945        That Assume The Risk1946    This is a professional resale industry getting richer through fees,1947while independent venues are just trying to keep the doors open. The1948secondary market is fundamentally different from what we do. These are1949large, well-capitalized companies that don't actually put on the show1950and don't carry the costs or risks of live events. Companies like1951StubHub have publicly disclosed that they have no show costs at all,1952yet they collect significant fees on every resale transaction.\13\1953---------------------------------------------------------------------------1954    \13\ StubHub Holdings, Inc., Form S-1/A (SEC), describing a1955business model that does not assume ticket inventory risk, https://1956www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1337634/0001193125195725197614/d225849ds1a.htm.1958---------------------------------------------------------------------------1959    By contrast, the fees charged by independent venues exist to cover1960the real and unavoidable costs of producing live events: paying artists1961through guarantees or box office splits; employing production crews,1962sound and lighting engineers, and front-of-house staff; staffing1963security, box office, bar, and cleaning teams; covering payroll taxes1964and workers' compensation; maintaining and insuring the building;1965paying utilities and basic operating expenses; running ticketing1966systems and payment processing; meeting safety, accessibility, and1967compliance requirements; promoting shows so fans know they exist; and1968paying mandatory performing rights organization fees to ASCAP, BMI, and1969SESAC so songwriters are compensated when their music is performed1970live.1971    Secondary ticket platforms and scalpers don't pay any of these1972costs. They don't carry the legal, financial, or operational1973responsibility of hosting live events, yet they collect ticket service1974and other fees on top of ours. That is why comparing primary ticket1975fees to secondary resale fees is misleading, and why the responsibility1976and risk remain squarely with local venues even as resale platforms1977extract billions from the system.1978The Disastrous Market Control of Live Nation1979    Live Nation doesn't just sell tickets. It controls the choke points1980that determine who gets access to tickets at all. And when one company1981controls ticketing, artist management, promotion, venue ownership, and1982resale, it has the ability to shape the market in ways that no1983independent venue, artist, or fan can counter on their own. From where1984I sit as a venue operator, Live Nation is not adjacent to these1985problems. It is part of the structure that allows them to persist.1986    Live Nation employs a suite of anti-competitive tactics that1987severely limit access to the live music market for independent1988operators. It manages hundreds of major artists, giving its promotions1989division the right of first refusal on those artists' live shows. It1990leverages all-or-nothing touring deals that route artists exclusively1991through Live Nation venues and ticketing systems, while using a stick1992or a carrot to ensure artists know there are financial penalties if1993they choose to work with independent promoters. It enforces radius1994clauses that are waived for other Live Nation venues but not for1995independent ones. Local artists have been barred from performing at1996non-Live Nation festivals because they agreed to play a Live Nation-1997branded event. Even when Live Nation controls a venue, it has refused1998to rent the space to artists or promoters it does not control, leaving1999rooms dark rather than enabling competition. Independent venues report2000being told they will lose performers whose tours are managed by Live2001Nation if they don't switch to Ticketmaster, a clear violation of their2002consent decree. And in some cases, Live Nation has demanded to be added2003as a ``co-promoter'' on shows it had no involvement in booking,2004claiming up to half of the profits under threat that refusal will2005jeopardize future bookings. This is not competition, and the U.S.2006Department of Justice lawsuit to break up this monopoly makes this2007clear.2008    Those tactics do not operate in isolation. They are reinforced by2009Live Nation and Ticketmaster's vertical integration, a flywheel that2010links artist management, promotion, venue access, primary ticketing,2011and monetization through fees and affiliated resale channels. When one2012company can influence routing decisions, venue availability, and the2013ticketing system fans must use, it can raise rivals' costs and reduce2014competitive alternatives without ever having to compete on service or2015price. That is why independent promoters and venues experience these2016tactics as a package: pressure on tours, pressure on rooms, pressure on2017ticketing, and limited recourse.2018    The competitive harms are not only theoretical. They translate2019directly into the ticketing outcomes that fans experience, including2020diminished access to face value inventory and an ecosystem that is more2021vulnerable to manipulation by professional resellers. In its lawsuit,2022the FTC alleges that Ticketmaster and Live Nation knowingly allowed,2023and even encouraged, brokers to use multiple Ticketmaster accounts to2024circumvent Ticketmaster's own security measures and access control2025systems, and that those resellers then listed tickets directly on Live2026Nation's resale marketplace. The FTC also alleges that a senior2027Ticketmaster executive admitted in an internal e-mail, copied to Live2028Nation leadership, that the companies ``turn a blind eye as a matter of2029policy'' to brokers' violations of posted ticket limits, including an2030internal review finding that five brokers controlled 6,345 Ticketmaster2031accounts and possessed 246,407 concert tickets to 2,594 events.\14\2032This is all why Live Nation must be broken up.2033---------------------------------------------------------------------------2034    \14\ FTC v. Live Nation Entertainment, Inc. and Ticketmaster LLC,2035Complaint (C.D. Cal. Sept. 18, 2025), https://www.ftc.gov/system/2036files/ftc_gov/pdf/FTCvLiveNation-Ticketmaster-Complaint-filed.pdf2037---------------------------------------------------------------------------2038What Reform Looks Like2039    At this point, we know the harm is real. We see it every night at2040our box offices. We know the scale of the abuse, and we know it is2041being driven by highly professionalized, multibillion-dollar2042operations. The question before Congress is not whether fans are being2043harmed. It is whether Federal policy will finally catch up to the2044realities of how tickets are bought, sold, and manipulated in the2045digital age. From where I sit as a venue operator, meaningful reform2046must protect fans at every step of the experience, from the moment they2047search for a show online to the moment they walk through our doors.2048Ban Predatory Resale Before the Public Onsale2049    One of the most damaging practices we see is the resale of tickets2050before the public ever has a fair chance to buy them, and it must be2051banned. Professional scalpers routinely invade artist presales, fan2052clubs, and early-access programs meant for real fans. They buy up2053inventory in bulk and immediately list those tickets on secondary2054platforms at inflated prices before the public onsale even begins.2055    From a fan's perspective, it looks like the show sold out2056instantly. In reality, access was intercepted by design. This practice2057creates artificial scarcity, allows resellers to set prices before the2058real market ever opens, and guarantees tickets will be funneled into2059the secondary market. It is pure manipulation. Ending resale before the2060public onsale is essential to restoring fair access and price2061integrity.2062Ban Deceptive URLs, Spoof Websites, and Predatory Search Engine2063        Optimization2064    Reform must also address what happens when fans search for tickets2065online. Right now, deceptive resale websites routinely impersonate2066official box offices. At Z2, fans regularly show up believing they2067purchased tickets directly from us, only to discover they were misled2068by a site designed to look official. In most cases, our venues don't2069even appear on the first page of search results for our own shows.2070Large resale platforms like StubHub spend hundreds of millions of2071dollars each year on advertising and marketing, a level of spending2072independent venues cannot match. The result is resale sites appearing2073ahead of official venue websites, forcing consumers to scroll past2074resale listings to find the original seller.2075    No other consumer market allows businesses to impersonate official2076sellers and profit from confusion. Live entertainment should not be an2077exception. Congress should ban deceptive URLs and spoof websites2078outright. And, they should investigate how predatory search engine2079optimization harms fans.2080Ban Speculative Tickets With Zero Loopholes2081    Speculative ticket listings must be banned outright, with no2082loopholes. It is unacceptable for resale platforms to allow brokers to2083sell tickets they do not own, do not possess, or may never deliver.2084This includes so-called ``concierge'' or ``seat saver'' services, which2085are simply ghost tickets under a different name.2086    These listings mislead fans, create artificial scarcity, and2087regularly result in serious financial and emotional harm. In some2088cases, fans only learn their tickets are invalid after traveling long2089distances, booking nonrefundable hotels, taking time off work, and2090arranging childcare. No legitimate consumer market allows companies to2091sell products they don't have and cancel at the last minute without2092consequence. Any serious reform must prohibit speculative tickets2093entirely.2094Institute Resale Price Caps to Restore Affordability2095    From where I sit as a venue operator, resale price caps are about2096affordability and restoring balance to a market that has gone largely2097unchecked for decades. Ticketing moved online faster than policy ever2098caught up. In that gap, a resale industry emerged that now inflates2099prices instantly, at scale, with almost no limits.2100    This is not about setting ticket prices or interfering with artists2101and venues in the primary market. It is about stopping extreme markups2102that have nothing to do with demand and everything to do with2103speculation. Without guardrails, tickets meant to cost $40 or $60 are2104flipped for hundreds of dollars before fans ever get a fair chance to2105buy them. That is not access. That is exclusion.2106    States are already responding to this reality. Washington, D.C.,2107Delaware, Hawaii, Oklahoma, Washington State, Wisconsin, and Vermont2108have all introduced resale price cap legislation recently, and Maine2109passed one last year, because they are seeing the same harm in their2110communities. Federal policy is falling behind.2111Close BOTS Act Enforcement Gaps and Pass the MAIN Event Ticketing Act2112    Many of these abuses are fueled by automated bots that buy up2113tickets at scale the moment they go on sale. Congress recognized this2114problem when it passed the BOTS Act in 2016. But in nearly a decade,2115that law has been enforced only once.2116    That lack of enforcement has sent a clear message to bad actors.2117The risk is low and the rewards are high in duping fans. Independent2118venues like mine want to see the MAIN Event Ticketing Act passed2119because without real enforcement authority, the same abuses will2120continue no matter how many rules exist on paper.2121Stop Letting Scalper-Funded Front Groups Speak for Fans2122    Finally, Congress and Federal agencies need to be clear-eyed about2123who is shaping this debate. Across the country, resale platforms fund2124organizations that claim to represent consumers while lobbying against2125reforms that would actually protect fans. These are not independent2126voices. When questioned closely, their representatives have2127acknowledged selective data, partial studies, and direct financial ties2128to the resale industry. That alone should give policymakers pause.2129Congress should be listening to constituents, artists, and local2130businesses who live with the consequences of these practices, not2131corporate-funded groups whose job is to obfuscate and defend resale2132profits.2133Conclusion2134    This is a defining moment. The live entertainment industry is not2135broken by accident. It has been bent, over time, by unchecked2136consolidation, deceptive business models, and deliberate inaction.2137Every fake ticket, every hidden fee, every mandated transfer or2138inflated resale is not just a flaw in the system. It reflects a system2139built to serve profit, not the people. But artists should be able to2140control how their tickets are sold. Fans should be able to trust the2141platforms they use. And independent venues should not have to fight for2142survival while others make billions off of their risk. We are not2143asking for favors. We are demanding guardrails and consumer protection.2144Congress is charged with protecting consumers and ensuring competition2145must meet this moment and the threats facing our Nation in ticketing2146deserve more than words. In an era defined by division, live music and2147performance continues to create connection and common ground. And that2148is worth protecting.2149    While there are organizations truly advocating for fan and small2150business voices, like the Fix the Tix Coalition or the Fan Alliance, we2151cannot do it alone. We need Congress to act now. Consumers are2152helpless. In the absence of Congressional action, we have gone state-2153by-state to pass strong consumer protections in ticketing, and we will2154continue to do so. At the same time, a national solution is what fans,2155artists, and independent venues need, and we stand ready to craft it2156with you.2157    Thank you for your time.21582159    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, all.2160    We are going to begin our five-minute round of questioning2161and work through the Members as they come to the dais.2162    Mr. Wall, I want to come to you. I want to thank you and2163your team for collaborating with us as we planned our hearing2164today, and your appearance is--it is certainly appreciated.2165    I will say I was quite disappointed when I read the FTC2166complaint against Live Nation/Ticketmaster as well as your2167response.2168    I could not help but remember our hearing from the2169Judiciary Committee that I referenced earlier and it was after2170Taylor Swift's--your platform had such a meltdown, and your2171President--Ticketmaster's President--told members of the2172Committee unequivocally that your company does everything in2173its power to stop the circumvention of your ticket purchasing2174limits and security measures.2175    So given the allegations in the FTC's complaint, how can2176you possibly stand by that sentiment saying you do everything2177you possibly can?2178    Mr. Wall. Well, thank you, Madam Chair.2179    Of course, it is in litigation and it is not going to2180surprise anyone that we contest a lot of the most basic2181allegations in that case.2182    But let me just say that the reason that I feel that I can2183say that quite confidently is because, you know, when we left2184that hearing we got the message.2185    We understood that we had to up our game, and we have made2186increase after increase in the resources that we throw into the2187battle against not just the bots but all of the different2188techniques that we----2189    Senator Blackburn. Does Live Nation/Ticketmaster employ a2190Chief Technology Officer?2191    Mr. Wall. Yes, and in fact we have a brand new CEO who is a2192technologist.2193    Senator Blackburn. What is your expectation of that CTO?2194    Mr. Wall. Our expectation on this particular issue is to2195make every effort possible to get the tickets that an artist2196like Mr. Ritchie wants to sell to his fans in there----2197    Senator Blackburn. Have you consulted with other companies2198in similar nature to yours or other companies, like I said,2199financial institutions that fight bots every single day?2200    Mr. Wall. Of course.2201    Senator Blackburn. Have you all consulted with them to see2202what they are doing?2203    Mr. Wall. Of course, and the new----2204    Senator Blackburn. So you have consulted with them. Have2205you picked up any of their best practices?2206    Mr. Wall. Absolutely.2207    Senator Blackburn. And so why are you not able to block the2208bots?2209    Mr. Wall. We are blocking over 500 million.2210    Senator Blackburn. But you are not getting all the bots. If2211the local power company had your approach to this, every day2212they would have a bot scoop in and get user data.2213    They would get information. They might even corrupt the2214system because they get these cyber attacks daily. It is2215inexcusable--inexcusable--that you all cannot find a way to2216keep transparency and fairness in this marketplace.2217    Mr. Berry, do other of your members have problems such as2218Ticketmaster has?2219    Mr. Berry. So our members have similar teams of employees2220who take care of those problems as well, and we have a company2221that is well known and is trying very difficult to break into2222the primary and has done a little bit of that and does not2223experience those problems and does ticket football stadiums as2224well.2225    Senator Blackburn. Mm-hmm. So you had mentioned if a broker2226could not be a part of a resale system, it would be a black2227market. So what is the process somebody goes through to become2228a broker?2229    Is it just an e-mail address? Is it a physical address?2230What is the process you require of people?2231    Mr. Berry. So to become a broker--we are online2232marketplaces. So in order to sell tickets on an online2233marketplace, I do not know if there is a process to become a2234broker.2235    Senator Blackburn. I am fully aware you are an online2236marketplace. In other words, do you know the people that are2237there? Do you have the information? Do you do enough research2238to know that this is actually an ongoing concern and not a2239scalper?2240    Mr. Berry. So every seller that is on the marketplace has2241to set up an account and be verified and provide their2242information and their address, et cetera. If there is ever a2243problem as a marketplace, like any marketplace--in our case2244tickets--we only do one thing and that is tickets.2245    Senator Blackburn. Mr. Weingarden, you are kind of rolling2246your eyes on that. You got a response to that?2247    Mr. Weingarden. I do not think that that is even possible2248for the amount of----2249    Senator Blackburn. So you do not believe what they are2250saying?2251    Mr. Weingarden. I do not.2252    Senator Blackburn. OK. That is great.2253    Mr. Ritchie, I want to come to you. I know you have got the2254reputation not only in Nashville but around the country you do2255a barn burner of a show and you are known----2256    Mr. Ritchie. Thought you were going to say something else.2257    [Laughter.]2258    Senator Blackburn. Not quite. But you take care of your2259fans. You are known for taking care of your fans.2260    So how has this price gouging in the marketplace affected2261your fan base? What do they tell you?2262    Mr. Ritchie. They are pissed. It prices them out of the2263market, many of them, especially, you know, working class2264folks.2265    And like I have explained before, you know, people do not2266realize why this is so different than another business where--2267or maybe if a grocery store is gouging on the price of2268something, you might be able to go to another store close by if2269you have those means to get that little better price.2270    When you are talking about your favorite artist--you know,2271I am looking back when I was a child and some of my favorite2272artists, you know, I would have done anything to get into those2273shows.2274    And so some of these people, you know, they are maxing out2275their credit cards and they are in debt. They are missing a2276house payment, things like this. So the way it affects them is2277terrible.2278    You see it all the time. Go onto any artist's message board2279who is popular and tickets come, and it is a conundrum to get2280them. Just look at those messages--oh, I wish I could go. I2281wish I could afford it. I am priced out. Like, blah blah blah.2282You know, it just--it is really just common sense----2283    Senator Blackburn. Frustrating.2284    Mr. Ritchie.--which is we keep--we keep talking about it. I2285have heard from Mr. Hickenlooper and down here, they are trying2286to run this disguise again of, like, speculative ticketing and2287all-in pricing.2288    These things are great. We do all agree on it. It does not2289solve the problem because what they hide in these things, which2290I believe they have done in Colorado and that they are doing in2291California or they have done, is they do all these wonderful2292things and goes, oh, they are doing all this stuff for2293ticketing.2294    What they do not do or what they do is they sneak in or2295they say we must keep tickets on the free market, and all that2296does is give the scalpers, the bad actors, the bots, a license2297to ill. That is it.2298    So they keep running this game. Do not be fooled. Like, the2299only way I have seen it that we can fix this is--and Live2300Nation, us and Ticketmaster agree on this, you know, oddly2301enough, that there needs to be a price cap.2302    They have tried this in Europe. Just look at it. It works2303there. Do I want to be a follower of Europe? Not really.2304    Senator Blackburn. Yes.2305    Mr. Ritchie. But you know what I mean? They did something2306that is kind of working. We ought to--we ought to take a hard2307look at that.2308    Senator Blackburn. My time has expired.2309    Senator Klobuchar.23102311               STATEMENT OF HON. AMY KLOBUCHAR,2312                  U.S. SENATOR FROM MINNESOTA23132314    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Senator Blackburn.2315I actually chaired the hearing in Judiciary that Senator2316Blackburn took part in, and I--Mr. Ritchie, thank you for being2317here.2318    I remember that well because we had trouble getting artists2319that wanted to come forward. We found a guy, Clyde Lawrence of2320the band Lawrence, and what I remember most is that he ended up2321being a great witness but he kept turning to the person behind2322him and everyone on TV thought it was his lawyer. It was his2323saxophone player, and that hearing----2324    Mr. Ritchie. I have the same lawyer present.2325    Senator Klobuchar. There you go.2326    [Laughter.]2327    Mr. Ritchie. None.2328    Senator Klobuchar. But it made a difference because we2329gathered evidence that we gave to the--we gave to the Justice2330Department and with Senator Lee, and what we found out at that2331hearing was that Live Nation and Ticketmaster's size is2332unbelievable.2333    No company should have 80 percent of ticket sales at major2334concert venues, own 40 percent of the top 50 amphitheaters in2335the U.S., and control 60 percent of promotion revenue.2336    We also discussed many of the issues that you talked about2337today about the bots and about what is happening in the resale2338market, and I have been frustrated. While some things have2339improved and we have appreciated the companies worked with us2340on some of these, but it just continues to be a problem.2341    Mr. Berry, I would start with you. Why does breaking up2342Live Nation and Ticketmaster help?2343    Mr. Berry. Thank you, Senator, for the question.2344    I believe this case that faces the entire nation right now2345will answer the question of whether or not a monopoly can be2346held accountable and do better, or run roughshod over our2347government and the market, simply put.2348    In terms of specifics, you know, there is then this2349conversation around exclusive contracts and venues. We agree a2350venue should be able to decide. A venue should be able to2351decide, but not extorted into making a decision because that2352affects the downstream effects.2353    In the world of ticketing, one of the greatest examples--2354and it is in the amended complaint, Senator--had to do with the2355Ticketmaster SafeTix technology. It was announced as anti-fraud2356and counterfeit technology.2357    The way it is being used is to foreclose competitors and2358abuse fans. It abuses a fan after the fact when months down the2359line--because they do not deliver tickets when you buy them,2360you pay for it and you get them 6 months later where they2361disappear or they get canceled. Worse yet, you leave fans with2362legitimate tickets----2363    Senator Klobuchar. OK.2364    Mr. Berry.--outside of venues not able to get in because2365their tickets have been taken back by Ticketmaster.2366    Senator Klobuchar. OK. Thank you. Thank you.2367    Mr. Weingarden, as an independent owner, could you talk2368about for a concert venue how this issue, these anti-2369competitive practices, affect independent venues?2370    Mr. Weingarden. Well, when you have got one company that2371controls that much, and it is not just the amount of money that2372they have, they have got a significant amount of leverage2373managing artists.2374    They have got all-or-nothing ticketing deals, touring2375deals, that will not allow for any other plays unless they are2376in these venues, and these are multi-multimillion-dollar deals.2377If you are radius--if you are radiusing out any other sort of,2378like, play within a market or close by----2379    Senator Klobuchar. The radius clauses that you are talking2380about?2381    Mr. Weingarden. Radius clauses, that is correct. Those2382make--and if I am, like, sort of a known promoter that has2383brought an artist up for a while and I want to be--you know,2384and I want to continue to work with that act, you know, and put2385them in maybe a larger space, they are not going to--they would2386not be renting to me.2387    Senator Klobuchar. Right.2388    Mr. Weingarden. I mean, the list goes on, and they are a2389behemoth for sure and it makes things very difficult for2390independent promoters.2391    Senator Klobuchar. Right. Thanks also for focusing on some2392of the deceptive practices. That bill that Senator Cornyn and I2393did, the Fans First Act, some of those provisions are in this--2394in the TICKET Act.2395    Mr. Weingarden. Yes, thank you.2396    Senator Klobuchar. Mr. Wall, as we look at advancing some2397of this legislation but also as we look at what is happening2398with that case--and I believe you have got to let the Justice2399Department do their job, I know that Live Nation has hired a2400number of lobbyists--that always happens, but Trump-aligned2401lobbyists to apply pressure to overrule the antitrust division2402and settle the case.2403    The former deputy assistant AG for antitrust, Robert2404Alford, someone I have called as a witness in Judiciary several2405times, appointed and subsequently fired by this administration,2406warned about these lobbyists' influence over the case.2407    Would you agree that the Justice Department's antitrust2408lawsuit should be resolved based on the law----2409    Mr. Weingarden. A hundred percent.2410    Senator Klobuchar.--and the facts and not political2411pressure?2412    Mr. Weingarden. One hundred percent, and I--and I expect2413that to be resolved in our favor.2414    One thing I wanted to tell you, Senator Klobuchar, because2415you brought it up is that in that lawsuit, in the ticketing2416market that is not gerrymandered but simply takes the full2417range of opportunities in large concert venues, our share is2418actually under 50 percent. So that is the government2419economists' number, not ours.2420    So I think that you should take some comfort in that.2421    Senator Klobuchar. OK. Mr. Ritchie, I have a feeling you do2422not take comfort in that but----2423    Mr. Ritchie. Well, I was just going to add, I know no one2424likes a tattle, but from what my sources tell me--you might2425want to ask Mr. Wall--is that my friend President Trump, Live2426Nation has also hired a couple of his friends, Ric Grenell and2427Kellyanne Conway. That says a lot right there.2428    Senator Klobuchar. Yes.2429    Senator Blackburn. OK, Senator.2430    Senator Klobuchar. OK. On that note, so but would you2431just--could I just ask one last question on the subject here of2432just what you think the effect is on smaller bands, not ones2433that fill the whole----2434    Mr. Ritchie. On smaller bands?2435    Senator Klobuchar.--whole arenas like you, of a monopoly?2436    Mr. Ritchie. Smaller bands? I mean, if you get popular as a2437smaller band, it is almost the same problem. You are just2438selling out a smaller venue. No tickets, and they get jacked up2439in prices, and all the same things still happen.2440    Senator Klobuchar. Mm-hmm. All right. Thank you very much.2441    Mr. Ritchie. Thank you.2442    Senator Blackburn. Thank you.2443    Senator Schmitt.24442445                STATEMENT OF HON. ERIC SCHMITT,2446                   U.S. SENATOR FROM MISSOURI24472448    Senator Schmitt. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I want to2449thank you for having this hearing.2450    The reason why I introduced the bill is I agree, I think2451that for me and I think a lot of Americans these live events,2452whether it is a concert or a sporting event, it brings people2453together.2454    You do have those memories. I remember the first concert2455was Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers at what used to be called2456Riverport in the St. Louis area, and just loved going to2457concerts, and you just hate seeing people get priced out.2458    You know, I am a big Cardinals fan. You see people getting2459priced out of those playoff tickets. I mean, look at the2460college football playoff, the national championship game.2461    I mean, these Indiana fans, like, the worst program in the2462history of college football I cannot get in the arena. And I2463understand there is limited capacity, but I just think that2464there is--the more transparency that we have, I think, is2465really important.2466    I think, Mr. Ritchie, what I hear you saying is we should2467do that. This is broad bipartisan so we should do that, but2468there is more to do, right?2469    There is more to do than just the transparency, because you2470are just seeing regular people that are just getting boxed out,2471right?2472    Mr. Ritchie. Yes. Those are things we can all agree on--the2473speculative ticking----2474    Senator Schmitt. Yes.2475    Mr. Ritchie.--transparency, all that stuff, but it does not2476solve the problem of getting the tickets into the hands of the2477fans at the prices the artists set.2478    Like I said, I am a capitalist. I am a deregulation guy.2479But something needs to be done here. This has gone on for 302480years. It has only gotten worse.2481    Senator Schmitt. Right. Right. And I appreciate you coming2482here today because I think you lending your voice to this is2483important.2484    I wanted to ask Mr. Wall, in a lot of these sporting events2485the dynamic pricing and inventory holdbacks are now kind of2486routine, with only a fraction of the seats, I would say, often2487actually released to the general public.2488    Given this kind of structure that exists, what is2489Ticketmaster's policy on disclosing to fans how many seats are2490truly available for the event at the moment of sale, and do you2491support greater transparency standards on that point?2492    Mr. Wall. Thank you, Senator.2493    We definitely support greater transparency. I do have to2494say that there is a wrinkle in this in that certain kinds of2495information are primarily useful to ticket brokers that are2496trying to size the market for what they can--how much they can2497charge and we draw some lines there.2498    I want to take this opportunity to say that we do not ever2499hold back. Ticketmaster would not have the authority to do this2500anyway but we do not hold back tickets from the primary2501ticketing market.2502    We do not secretly send them over to brokers or anything2503like that, and that is one of the fundamental ramifications of2504the fact that a concert promoter with a CEO like Michael Rapino2505owns Ticketmaster.2506    That puts us on this side of the aisle instead of this side2507of the aisle because we are going to make the decisions that2508are good for Mr. Ritchie and other artists.2509    Senator Schmitt. How does--and I will stay with you just2510for just a sec--Ticketmaster recently announced several policy2511changes, including limiting entities to a single verified2512account--you mentioned that--and removing broker management2513tools.2514    How would this legislation, the TICKET Act's requirement2515for full transparency complement that or help that as far as2516the internal changes that you are already making in that2517regard? Or does it?2518    Mr. Wall. I do not--I do not see a particular connection to2519it, but we are going to vote yes on transparency pretty2520generally just because we agree that that is an important part2521of the market.2522    And a lot of these issues, particularly in the resale2523markets, there is so much opaqueness, there is so much2524misdirection, that as a society we have got to do something2525about that.2526    Senator Schmitt. OK, thanks. Thank you, Madam Chair.2527    Senator Blackburn. Thank you.2528    Senator Lujan.25292530               STATEMENT OF HON. BEN RAY LUJAN,2531                  U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO25322533    Senator Lujan. Thank you, Madam Chair.2534    Mr. Berry, music venues and promoters traditionally2535guarantee that every ticket sold by their box office admits2536them to the shows. How do your ticket resale platform members2537verify that a ticket is real prior to it being listed on their2538resale platforms?2539    Mr. Berry. Thank you, Senator, for the question.2540    We advocate, as your office knows, for interoperability and2541greater connections between the primary and secondary.2542    A great example, sir, would be Paciolan. That is a company2543that Ticketmaster was required to divest during the merger,2544large in the collegiate area. When there is a ticket purchased2545or resold, there is a connection on the back end so that there2546is verification, and when it goes for sale there is a guarantee2547it goes through. This is not just trusted but it is verified.2548    We would advocate for that across the entire ecosystem.2549When 80 percent or more of popular concert tickets are2550controlled by one company that will not share that information,2551there has to be a lot of trust and there has to be a lot of2552customer support. The greatest thing we can do as marketplaces2553then is hold the sellers accountable.2554    Senator Lujan. So, Mr. Berry, do all your members guarantee2555that the ticket is good?2556    Mr. Berry. All guarantee refund protection or comparable--2557--2558    Senator Lujan. No, that is not what I am asking.2559    Mr. Berry. Yes, Senator.2560    Senator Lujan. Do all your members guarantee when you buy2561the ticket you are going to get in?2562    I mean, the answer is no. We can just say it. The answer is2563no. I can move on to this----2564    Mr. Berry. We guarantee is that your ticket will work or2565you can get comparable----2566    Senator Lujan. OK, let me move on to the next question. I2567will help--I will help you with this, sir.2568    You are not going to say it. I will say it. The answer is2569no, and we know it is a problem. We need to fix it. So if you2570are saying that you want everyone to guarantee it then make2571them.2572    Do not allow them to be a member unless they guarantee it2573and then we will not need to pass legislation. So I hope we can2574work on that one together.2575    Mr. Berry, which of your companies allow speculative2576ticketing and which ones ban it?2577    Mr. Berry. So multiple companies do not allow it on their2578platforms and, you know, the challenge with speculative2579ticketing, sir, is that there are a lot of tickets that you may2580presume are speculative----2581    Senator Lujan. Yes.2582    Mr. Berry.--that have already been provided through2583different allotments that no one knows about because it is2584completely opaque and secret. There can be, you know, multiple2585pre-sales.2586    There can be deceptive, secret holdbacks of tickets, and I2587understand today that was challenged. But through subpoena2588authority, the New York State attorney general obtained this2589information. So when we see some of these tickets, they are not2590speculative.2591    Senator Lujan. Let me ask you the question----2592    Mr. Berry. As for speculative, sir, we would support a ban2593on deceptive speculative tickets as the TICKET Act has2594prescribed.2595    Senator Lujan. Would you support a ban on speculative2596ticketing?2597    Mr. Berry. Yes, sir, and that is why I call for this2598committee to pass the TICKET Act.2599    Senator Lujan. So will you do me a favor? And Mr. Ritchie,2600I appreciate your response earlier to all my colleagues on the2601Committee. I had the amendment. I had the amendment to get rid2602of speculative ticketing, and then I was told by some of the2603offices take it down because it is going to take the whole act2604down.2605    And I talked to the main author, Ms. Blackburn. We said,2606well, OK, we need this. We need the act, but if there is--2607everyone here agree we should get rid of speculative ticketing?2608    Mr. Ritchie, yes or no?2609    Mr. Ritchie. Yes.2610    Senator Lujan. Mr. Wall?2611    Mr. Wall. In stronger terms than he wants.2612    Senator Lujan. Mr. Berry, I heard you say yes. You want to2613repeat that?2614    Mr. Berry. Yes, Senator. Pass the TICKET Act.2615    Mr. Weingarden. Absolutely. Get rid of speculative2616ticketing.2617    Senator Lujan. Let me ask you a question just real quick,2618Mr. Berry.2619    You support getting rid of speculative ticketing, yes or2620no?2621    Mr. Berry. Yes, sir. It is a big change in the industry. We2622think it is the right thing to do for the fans.2623    Senator Lujan. Appreciate that.2624    Mr. Weingarden?2625    Mr. Weingarden. Absolutely, 100 percent.2626    Senator Lujan. OK. Well, Mr. Chairman, I am glad you are2627here, sir, and we hear this and all the staff in here hears it,2628and maybe we can just offer this up next time we have any bill2629that comes in.2630    Since we are in the Senate there is nothing that restricts2631us on offering whatever we want to do. It is in the Committee's2632jurisdiction. So I look forward to doing that with everybody2633here as well.2634    Mr. Wall, let me jump to you here real quick, sir.2635September 2025 the FTC brought suit against Ticketmaster2636alleging that the company knowingly allowed brokers to use2637multiple accounts to evade ticket limits.2638    Now, I am aware that you dispute these allegations and2639there is ongoing litigation, but my question is how many bot-2640related circumvention referrals has Live Nation made to the FTC2641since the BOTS Act passed in 2016?2642    Mr. Wall. I am not sure of the exact number, but there came2643a point when they told us to stop doing that because they2644understood that the bots problem was an ongoing problem.2645    Senator Lujan. So have you disciplined, Mr. Wall, any2646brokers or your company disciplined any brokers or banned them2647from buying or listing tickets on Ticketmaster based on their2648circumvention of your technological controls?2649    Mr. Wall. Yes.2650    Senator Lujan. I appreciate that.2651    Madam Chair, I am going to turn this back over to you. I2652know everyone here knows that I have been proud to work with2653Senator Blackburn on this issue as well. I now am proud that I2654heard from everyone in the industry that we can get rid of2655speculative ticketing.2656    I look forward to working with the Chair and the Ranking2657Member of the Full Committee to bring that up and all I--all2658the staff that are in here I hope you just author it.2659    If the Chair wants to put his name on it, I would be happy2660to turn it over. Well, let us get that done. Let us get rid of2661it. Thank you for the time.2662    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Senator Lujan.2663    Senator Cruz.26642665                  STATEMENT OF HON. TED CRUZ,2666                    U.S. SENATOR FROM TEXAS26672668    The Chairman. Thank you, Madam Chair. Welcome to all the2669witnesses.2670    Mr. Ritchie, let me say as a Texan I am particularly happy2671to see you bringing cowboy hats back to the U.S. Senate. It2672warms my heart.2673    Mr. Ritchie. Yes, sir.2674    The Chairman. Let me start with you, Mr. Ritchie. In your2675testimony, you talk a lot about how music fans and artists have2676been harmed by systemic problems within the ticketing system.2677    You have been doing this for over 25 years with a ton of2678success. What do you see as the biggest problem for music fans?2679    Mr. Ritchie. Well, just like we are saying, we keep going2680back to these speculative ticketing. You know, transparency,2681all this stuff, great. Everyone does agree on these small2682things, but it does not solve this problem.2683    The biggest problem I see as an artist is getting the2684tickets at the prices I set into the hands of the fans. And2685like I said, I will say it again, I am a capitalist. I am a2686deregulation guy.2687    There is no way around this but to put a price cap on this,2688or technology figure it out. But technology has not yet. Maybe2689they do not want them to.2690    I mean, when people are making a lot of money in the2691secondary market--and I even told the CEO of Live Nation a2692couple years ago, I go, you know, you guys would have probably2693gotten away with this a lot longer if you just would have paid2694the artists some of the money in the secondary market, which2695they never did. We never shared in that.2696    But either way, I am here for the fans. That is it. I would2697actually take a pay cutoff this. I would rather have more fans2698and take a little less money or have packed buildings and play2699to that because let us face it, as a front man and a lot of2700front men, we have a little bit of egos, all of us. And rather2701than take that little bit extra money----2702    The Chairman. Fortunately, no one in politics has that.2703    Mr. Ritchie. Yes, not at all. So it is getting the prices2704we set getting them in the hands of the fans.2705    The Chairman. You also talked about how artists have lost2706leverage in the ticketing system and, obviously, venues make2707relationships with ticket sellers.2708    Can you explain what it means, how performers have lost2709leverage, and what might change if artists had more control2710over ticket sales?2711    Mr. Ritchie. I mean, just with this--speaking of the2712secondary market, if I went to Ticketmaster, I do not know, a2713couple months ago--I got a tour coming up. I could go, like,2714hey, we have agreed on a price for the ticket with the2715building, with the fees, everything.2716    OK, I want to buy all 15,000 tickets. No way that is2717happening. You can only get a certain amount for your fan club2718that you want.2719    Maybe I want to do special things there. Maybe I want to do2720things like, you know, give--like I said, have first class2721tickets available like an airline, but then also have some2722really cheap tickets around there without doing dynamic2723pricing, which kind of takes one ticket right next to another2724ticket and for no reason just jacks it up.2725    I would rather be transparent about this going into it,2726like, yes, we know we have first-class customers, people who2727have worked hard and done well. We want to provide them very2728expensive tickets so they are going to be there toward the end.2729    I also want to have very cheap tickets, but I want to lay2730this out across the board. Just all sorts of unique things we2731could do with those tickets, whether it is giveaways, fan2732clubs. Some people have corporate deals they want to do things2733with.2734    And it is not like they have not worked with us on that. I2735am not saying Ticketmaster does not. But just the freedom to2736say, like, I do not want my ticket resold at all.2737    I would rather a couple percentage, a few hundred people2738kind of get screwed over and say, you know, I cannot sell my2739ticket back--I got to eat it--because I know right now if that2740happened that 90, 95, 96 percent of those people would have a2741great experience of buying the ticket.2742    And some of these things now I have heard in the last 62743months, we can do that. We can do that. I am, like, why could2744not we do that for all these years, and it seems like, like I2745said, people are being reactive instead of proactive.2746    The Chairman. Let me ask the other witnesses do you agree2747with Mr. Ritchie, number one, that as an artist he could not2748buy, say, all 15,000 tickets, and if that--if you agree that2749under the status quo he cannot, why not?2750    Mr. Wall. I can answer that, Senator. The reason is because2751in the United States the tickets are issued and owned by the2752venues. The ticket is literally a license to come onto the2753premises during the show.2754    And so there are venue interests here that are reflected in2755thousands of contracts, and what the venues will defer to Mr.2756Ritchie or any other artist on are on the pricing, resale2757restrictions, things like that, but they are not going to give2758up their property rights in the tickets.2759    Mr. Berry. We too are rooting for fan success, Senator2760Cruz. We believe that the artist and the artist's success and2761event success we want to see sold out. We help achieve 1002762percent sold out, but at the end of the day, I agree the2763artist, they should set whatever price they want to set.2764    I think Kid Rock, if I may, I think he is absolutely right.2765If he wants to set different tiers of his pricing he can, and2766fans should have that option. They should also have the option,2767if they choose, to recover their costs if they cannot use it or2768to be able to resell it. Ticketmaster does not make it very2769easy, sir.2770    Sometimes these price caps come with price floors. It2771happened to me--and I am in the industry--last year up in2772Baltimore to see Billy Joel and Stevie Nicks. Took my kid up2773there.2774    One of us could not make it due to business, and we were2775not allowed to even resell it for $50. It was a $180 ticket.2776They set a floor. That seat went empty. An empty seat does not2777buy beer, hot dogs, or merchandise.2778    So we think there ought to be options for consumers.2779    Mr. Weingarden. I do not think anybody disagrees with the2780fact that there should be some resale available for those types2781of events that occur.2782    That being said, when a bot or somebody comes in and2783purchases hundreds of tickets or whatnot, and we are looking at2784it as a venue as a sold-out performance so we staff as such,2785with 100 percent staffing, the whole lot, and we are also2786paying the artist for those--for that sold out show as well.2787    And, unfortunately, when those brokers cannot get their2788tickets sold they--we will see a drop count, which is how many2789people are actually through the door, of 60 percent to 702790percent. Now we have lost 30 percent to 40 percent of the2791income from food and beverage, which is how we make our money2792as a venue.2793    And so--and to put the salt on the wound is that these2794brokers, these scalpers, will then claim fraud on all of the2795unsold tickets and will get their money back from these credit2796card companies, and so we will get--and we will get charged2797that as well. They are called ``charge backs''.2798    So not only do we lose 30, 40 percent on those tickets that2799go unsold for the food and beverage, we get double charged on2800the chargeback and there is no way for us to make our money2801back at all.2802    The Chairman. All right. So my time has expired but, Mr.2803Ritchie, I will give you a chance if you want to respond to2804those comments. I do not know if you have any response.2805    Mr. Ritchie. I think they are--I think we are all---for2806lack of a better term, we are all kind of smoking the same2807dope.2808    The Chairman. All right. That spices up the hearing even2809more.2810    [Laughter.]2811    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Senator Cruz.2812    Senator Cantwell, you are recognized.2813    Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Madam Chair.2814    Senator, have you gone?2815    Senator Blunt Rochester. I have not.2816    Senator Cantwell. Do you want to allow her to go or------2817    Senator Blackburn. Sure, it is fine.2818    Senator Blunt Rochester, go ahead.28192820            STATEMENT OF HON. LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER,2821                   U.S. SENATOR FROM DELAWARE28222823    Senator Blunt Rochester. Thank you very much, Madam Chair,2824and thank you also to the Ranking Member.2825    A special thank you to Ranking Member Cantwell for letting2826me go before her, and to the witnesses, thank you so much for2827being here.2828    I appreciate the work of Senators Blackburn and Lujan on2829the MAIN Event Ticketing Act, and also Senators Schmitt and2830Markey on the TICKET Act. I came to Washington to fight for2831Delaware families--the fans, artists, and consumers.2832    To me, live events should not be a luxury, but all too2833often fans are actually facing a stacked deck online from2834hidden fees, to misleading listings, to speculative tickets, to2835bots that scoop up all the inventory in seconds.2836    As everyone has said, I think many of us have experienced2837it. I too experienced it for Beyonce tickets. When I served in2838the House, I offered an amendment that was included in the2839previous version of the TICKET Act to crack down on deceptive2840ticketing websites or fake URLs, and I am committed to building2841on that work and making online ticketing fairer, more2842transparent, and more affordable for fans.2843    Mr. Berry, we know cybersecurity is a major threat to2844online ticket consumers. As Anthropic found in a November 20252845report, cybersecurity attacks are now beginning to use AI2846agents to execute cyber attacks by themselves.2847    Mr. Berry, is the online ticket industry prepared for the2848AI agent cybersecurity threat?2849    Mr. Berry. Senator, it is a constantly evolving challenge,2850and the bottom line is the industry has to meet that challenge.2851    Senator Blunt Rochester. So you would say----2852    Mr. Berry. Yes.2853    Senator Blunt Rochester. Yes?2854    Mr. Berry. And primarily when we examine the bot problem,2855because it is a problem--you have heard today these are2856attacks--there is no place in the system for them.2857    Jumping ahead of a consumer in line and scooping up the2858tickets just should not be something that can be done by2859technology. Candidly, that just speaks to an anti-fan approach.2860    But it happens in the primary sector, so when tickets first2861go online is when these attacks happen. We have a member of our2862forum that, you know, does a very good job. We are talking 992863percent records they can provide the specific numbers, but it2864is very high in terms of keeping them out.2865    Senator Blunt Rochester. Yes, I would say I remain still2866very, very much concerned. For example, the Associated Press2867reported last year that a crew in New York illegally and2868without the AI tools--this was without the AI tools--used e-2869mail redirects to take over accounts and then resold more than2870900 digital tickets for pricey events, including the Taylor2871Swift concerts.2872    Considering this and many other examples, Mr. Wall, what2873steps has Live Nation taken that will reassure consumers that2874the ticketing marketplace will be fair and secure?2875    Mr. Wall. Thank you, Senator.2876    It is obviously an important question with AI and all the2877various manifestations, and we are very much looking at both2878the positives and the negatives of AI.2879    Your question about the defenses, one of the things we are2880seeing--Mr. Ritchie mentioned earlier about how an important2881tool that we use to stop the bad actors is identity2882verification.2883    Well, of course, now what we are seeing is AI agents2884pretending to be humans to try to pass the identity2885verification.2886    Right now, I think we are on top of that issue but it is2887one of the major initiatives that we have announced at the2888company as an across-the-board investment in the AI2889technologies, both on the kind that can serve the fan and the2890kind that can protect the fan.2891    Senator Blunt Rochester. And I know you just mentioned new2892steps have been taken to address it.2893    Mr. Weingarden and Mr. Wall, one popular tactic is used and2894it is called the wall garden model in exchange for stronger2895security, and the model requires consumers to give up some of2896their personal data and convenience by locking tickets into a2897special app that prevents using these tickets with screenshots2898or wallets.2899    Yet, reports like the one from 404 Media suggest resellers2900can still bypass these walled gardens.2901    Mr. Weingarden, from the independent venue perspective, do2902ticket transfer restrictions genuinely reduce fraud?2903    Mr. Weingarden. You know what? I am not quite sure if that2904actually reduces fraud or not, but I do know that at some2905points it is necessary to be able to transfer tickets to--if2906you cannot make a show or something like that.2907    But I am not quite sure and I had never heard of the--2908this--the walled garden either. So I am sorry that I do not2909know about that answer.2910    Senator Blunt Rochester. That is OK. That is OK.2911    I will submit some more questions for the record for the2912witnesses but, again, bottom line, this is truly about the2913fans, it is about the artists, and it is about making sure that2914we in this age also care about what is coming next, whether it2915is AI or quantum and how it is going to be attacking these2916systems.2917    So thank you very much. I yield back, Madam Chair.2918    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Senator.2919    Senator Cantwell, you are recognized.29202921               STATEMENT OF HON. MARIA CANTWELL,2922                  U.S. SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON29232924    Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for2925holding this important hearing and for you and Senator2926Hickenlooper, but I want to thank you particularly for your2927advocacy for the music industry and for your steadfast approach2928in helping on all sorts of legislation that is trying to make2929sure that content created by artists are protected and that it2930is not replicated with AI and a variety of other things.2931    So I am definitely supportive of the speculative TICKET Act2932that Senator Cruz and I we passed here, but it has not gone all2933the way through the process.2934    Definitely I think Senators Markey and Schmitt--I think2935Senator Schmitt was here earlier and mentioned that he is2936supporting that--definitely in support of upgrading the BOTS2937Act of 2016. I do not think it is strong enough.2938    But I think the larger issue here--first of all, love music2939in the Northwest. We are a big music state, and, Mr. Ritchie,2940appreciate you mentioning Pearl Jam. We have lots of venues. We2941have lots of places for artists to perform.2942    We are very proud of that, but we are not proud if we2943cannot get the artists in those venues, and the sea change that2944has happened in the meantime that we have had this conversation2945is the fact that Live Nation and the tickets are now 80 percent2946of the market.2947    So the Department of Justice, along with 40 attorney2948generals including my home state, are currently suing Live2949Nation and Ticketmaster including monopolizing live events2950industry.2951    So, Mr. Weingarden, earlier this conversation came up about2952the radius clauses in contracts and so, you know, what are we2953doing to look at this management structure?2954    It was very interesting. The Seahawks said, you know what?2955Do not resell your tickets, last Sunday. Do not. They literally2956sent a message to all the season ticket holders.2957    They said, do not do it or we will take your tickets away2958from you, and believe me I did not see any Rams fans in that2959stadium, like, a few, like 12, OK. But the fans knew they were2960serious.2961    Now, they could have made lots of money off those tickets,2962but the venue in this case said do not do it. So they do have2963the power to do something here. They just do not use it, and2964that is an interesting point.2965    To Mr. Ritchie's earlier testimony, why do they not,2966particularly when the artists are trying to protect the fans2967and protect their fan base?2968    But, Mr. Weingarden, it is even worse when the marketplace2969does not function and Mr. Ritchie cannot go to one of your2970venues because somebody already wrote a clause that says that2971he cannot or that you cannot go within certain miles.2972    So what are we doing to create a competitive environment?2973You know, again, we have lots of venues that are in the 5,0002974to 7,000 thousand seat range created by lots of outdoor sites,2975you know, tribes.2976    You know, we have 29 tribes. They are creating venues.2977Like, there are lots of opportunities for people to go but not2978if somebody is shutting the market down because they control 802979percent of the market.2980    So what do we do to get at these contract clauses that2981would give other artists like Mr. Ritchie the availability to2982go where they want? So why cannot he, you know, or some of2983these other artists just agree to go to another venue at a2984lower price?2985    Mr. Weingarden. I think that asking Kid Rock and his2986management about those deals, you know, would probably be a2987good idea, but also the--you know, it is not necessarily----2988    Senator Cantwell. I am asking you whether we need to see2989the contracts that show that these kind of manipulative2990practices are actually being deployed that curtail artists from2991signing up in your venues. That is what I want to know.2992    Mr. Weingarden. I think that when you are talking about2993multi-million dollar national touring--all-in touring deals,2994and they all want to make sure that they are playing in those2995Live Nation/Ticketmaster rooms, the artists will play in just2996those rooms only.2997    And even, you know, with some of these, like, bigger2998festivals that are playing in L.A. or in other places, they2999make these incredibly massive radius clauses that no artist can3000play anywhere within, you know, the western half of the United3001States for a specific period of time.3002    And so, they are locked in contractually to not do that,3003and when you are talking about, again, these multi-million3004dollar contracts, that is something that happens.3005    I do think that with radius clauses when you are talking3006about different artists and playing in the same market and3007whatnot, I do think that there is some discussion that needs to3008be had around announcements so you are not cannibalizing the3009different ticket sales.3010    But when we are talking about, you know, the fact that3011somebody cannot play in Colorado because they are playing at a3012festival in Los Angeles or something like that, those are3013definitely more egregious.3014    Senator Cantwell. If Brandi Carlile wants to play the3015Gorge----3016    Mr. Weingarden. Right.3017    Senator Cantwell.--and she makes an agreement to play the3018Gorge, but Brandi Carlile also wants to go to Walla Walla and3019have an event, she should be allowed to go and have----3020    Mr. Weingarden. She should.3021    Senator Cantwell. And she should--and because otherwise you3022are just price gouging.3023    Mr. Weingarden. Right.3024    Senator Cantwell. You are not giving the artists the3025flexibility. You are basically taking the consumer and you are3026price gouging, running up the price.3027    And so I just think these clauses are the ones that are,3028again, with a control of 80 percent of the market, Mr. Wall, it3029is just too much, and I know that is what is happening to art.3030    Mr.--I mean, Mr. Ritchie, do you have a comment about this?3031You seem to know a little bit.3032    Mr. Ritchie. Well, as much as I would like to agree with3033you, if you have a radius clause, if I am going to play a big3034place and I sell out that place and I want to play in other3035places in that radius, I am kind of battling myself.3036    It is like having a great restaurant and I am going to open3037up another great restaurant right next door. I am going to3038split my audience, you know, and it just might not make the3039most sense.3040    But what I am hear--that can be debated until the cows come3041home. I think I am right on----3042    Senator Cantwell. Well, I am saying they are curtailing3043these venues from getting these future events over a time3044period.3045    Mr. Ritchie. I think what you are talking about----3046    Senator Cantwell. So what I am saying is you want to let3047the pressure off where you are----3048    Mr. Ritchie. I think what you are talking about is if Live3049Nation owns 80 percent of this market, they own most of the3050venues and the management and this, that, and the other3051ticketing company, and an act is coming up, and they know they3052are going to blow up, right? They are going to be a big act,3053but they are still in, like, the 5,000-seater range.3054    Live Nation has bought the Fillmore or whatever that is30555,000 seats, but there is an independent promoter that owns3056another one. Live Nation can come in if they are going to get a3057$10,000 guarantee and they can say, we are going to invest in3058their future--we are going to get $15,000, $20,000, and that3059small promoter can never compete with them. Or they are going3060to give them some back-end deal here or there.3061    Is that illegal? I do not know. Is it bad business, good3062business? I am not sure. But, you know, there is something to3063be said when you own most of the market, you know, which nobody3064really in Congress voted for. You know, they were all kind of3065against the merger.3066    Senator Cantwell. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.3067    Senator Blackburn. Thank you.3068    Senator Lummis.30693070               STATEMENT OF HON. CYNTHIA LUMMIS,3071                   U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING30723073    Senator Lummis. Thank you, Madam Chairman.3074    I am not on the Subcommittee but I am on the Commerce3075Committee, and when I was downstairs in my office just now and3076heard some of this testimony, I cleared my schedule to run up3077because I have gotten so many complaints since I have been here3078about Ticketmaster specifically.3079    And so when I have a chance to ask you some questions, Mr.3080Wall, I am pleased to. Can you explain--first of all, welcome.3081    Mr. Wall. Thank you.3082    Senator Lummis. And welcome to all of you.3083    Is Ticketmaster a monopoly?3084    Mr. Wall. No, we are not.3085    Senator Lummis. And tell me how you come to that3086conclusion?3087    Mr. Wall. Because we are at the--near the end of the road3088in the antitrust case and the math has been done, and if you3089just look at the addressable market for large venues, the3090government's economist is putting our market share under 503091percent so that is not a monopoly share.3092    They have an alternative argument that looks at 20 percent3093of that market and says that we have a monopoly of that, but3094there is no such thing as a monopoly of 20 percent of a market.3095That is why.3096    Senator Lummis. So what defines a monopoly?3097    Mr. Wall. It is typically that you have the ability to3098charge monopoly prices, reduce output, things like that.3099    Senator Lummis. OK. If you control artists, venues, and3100tickets, and a person has to choose--who chooses your venue has3101to use Ticketmaster or an artist that you have a relationship3102with, that sounds like a monopoly to me, because you have3103relationships with artists and with venues and with tickets.3104    And when you are able to combine the three it forces3105artists to use your venues and your tickets, it requires venues3106to use your artists and your tickets, and it takes choice away3107from both the artists and the venues, and to me, that sounds3108like a monopoly.3109    Mr. Wall. I understand, Senator, and that is the story we3110hear a lot. But if I could just give you a couple of data3111points without getting too argumentative about this.3112    We are not a big--we may be the largest venue owner in the3113sense of the number of venues but we do not have any stadiums.3114We do not have any arenas. So where all of these big shows3115play--the major concert venues--we own hardly any of them.3116    What we own--the only venues that we own that even fit3117within this market, the government is claiming, are3118amphitheaters, which are a small part of the whole.3119    And as far as artist choice, the one thing I will just say3120is know us by the company we keep. We are on this team. We do3121not wear the same uniform by any means, but we are on the3122artists' team here and, you know----3123    Mr. Ritchie. So I would like to start calling the shots3124then.3125    [Laughter.]3126    Mr. Wall. Yes. But it is important to point out that on3127almost everything, our position is exactly what Mr. Ritchie's3128is and it is because his position is very typical of what the3129artist's position is.3130    Senator Lummis. Mr. Ritchie, how would you respond to my3131question?3132    Mr. Ritchie. Well, I think monopoly is having no3133competition. I think it is the opposite of this number and that3134number. I cannot keep up with you, Mr. Wall, with the numbers.3135    But it is lack of competition, and I think if there is more3136competition, let us say, in the ticketing market, then that3137would make things better for the fans and for prices and for3138the artists.3139    And, you know, and I would say let the artists bear the3140blunt. Take the risk and reward. You know what I mean? If I say3141that I want tickets to be sold with a no resale--you cannot3142resell them, period--my fans are going to go like, oh, I could3143not go and Kid Rock is a jerk. Whatever, that is fine.3144    I mean, they pretty much bear the blunt of it now and3145StubHub does, and rightfully so--rightfully so, because they do3146not give us the freedom to do what we want with our inventory.3147They do not exist without me and everyone else. That is a fact.3148I think we can all agree on that.3149    Senator Lummis. Right. Mr. Berry, how would you respond to3150my questions?3151    Mr. Berry. First and foremost, on the monopoly question,3152Senator, I am looking forward to the Justice Department and 403153state attorneys general--bipartisan team of attorneys general3154figuring that out.3155    The Department of Justice should stay the course, finish3156the job. If they are watching today, do not settle. Let this3157play out.3158    As a fan foremost--that is how I got into all of this--I am3159pretty sure if it is someone in the schoolyard that can bully3160and beat everybody up that sounds like a monopoly to me, and3161that is what is happening.3162    Senator Lummis. Mr. Weingard? Garden, sorry.3163    Mr. Weingarden. Yes, I--we--the artists hold all the3164marbles. I mean, the artist and the artist's team, they hold3165all the marbles and we want to play with the marbles.3166    So we are going to do everything that we can to make sure3167that the artist is happy and we want to--and get them what they3168need.3169    At the same time, when you are dealing with, you know, a3170monopolistic corporation or you are dealing with a bunch of3171StubHub, you know, and secondary--and scalpers and whatnot that3172pay none of the costs--none of these costs are getting paid by3173these scalpers. None of them.3174    We pay them constantly, and when that is happening, it is3175not equitable. It is not fair. There is no competition. You3176know, they are making--their profit margins are enormous3177because they are not sharing in any of the risk.3178    Senator Lummis. Mr. Ritchie, do you hold all the cards?3179    Mr. Ritchie. No, hardly. I just want to say there is so3180much money in this business there is enough to go around for3181everyone.3182    That is a fact, but the one thing we can agree on--there is3183a lot of merit here to everything we are talking about, but we3184have to get the middleman out of the way. Just let me get the3185tickets to the fans at the prices I want to set.3186    Senator Lummis. Madam Chairman, thank you.3187    Senator Blackburn. Senator Hickenlooper, you are3188recognized.3189    Senator Hickenlooper. I was enjoying being incognito.3190    Long before I ever dreamed of getting into politics, I3191opened a--I was an out-of-work geologist and opened a large3192restaurant in Denver called the Wine Coop Brewing Company.3193Brewed its own beer.3194    It took us two years to raise the money. My mother would3195not even invest, although you do not really care about that. We3196put a jazz club in the basement, so I became a venue, and so we3197were the place between Chicago and San Francisco, so Freddie3198Hubbard would come and play a weekend.3199    We did not ever get any of the big acts but we did well3200enough to lose $30,000 or $40,000 a year, which I looked at as3201collateral damage because people came in and ate in the3202restaurant upstairs.3203    But I did get a sense of how it worked. I got to be friends3204with a guy named Doug Kauffman, who was a local promoter.3205    He was trying to renovate this beautiful old theater from3206the 1920s, the Ogden Theater. I knew him from that, and he was3207putting on a show at Red Rocks and he had Spin Doctor, Gin3208Blossoms, and Cracker.3209    This was, like, in 1993 or 1994, and his father, who had3210always loaned him the money when time came due to make the big3211down payment for the lead act, which in this case was the Spin3212Doctors, his father was building a--renovating his house so he3213could not do it, so he came to me.3214    And I got my restaurant. We co-signed the $40,000 loan so3215we could give all that money to the Spin Doctors, who turned3216out to be out of fashion by the time the concert started.3217    And Doug had promised me that--you know, he could tell how3218much they had already sold 25 percent of the seats 2 months out3219and he said, I guarantee you--I guarantee you, you will not3220lose money, and we did not.3221    And that, you know, there is a poster somewhere in the3222universe produced by nobody in particular presents--that is3223Doug Kauffman's company--and the Wine Group Brewing Company.3224    But I saw just how arbitrary and how fast it all happened.3225I ended up--you know, basically, I took all my ill-gotten gains3226and put them back into gift certificates to help him renovate3227the Ogden Theater, but it created this.3228    Once I became mayor--and the City of Denver owns the Red3229Rocks--I became obsessed with why can we not do more acts and3230more things, and it turned out we could. It turned out the3231mayor gets to make that final decision, and I think that is3232where a lot of my passion from this kind of comes from is3233seeing how it works up close and personal.3234    Let me start. Mr. Weingarden, thank you for joining us3235today, and your work in the Colorado music industry has helped3236keep us a leader in music.3237    Now that the center from Washington is gone I can say3238really on a per capita basis way beyond Washington.3239    Next year, Boulder is actually going to start hosting the3240Sundance Film Festival. As you mentioned, when fans purchase a3241ticket, they expect to be allowed to enter the show to get what3242they paid for.3243    Can you paint a picture for us? When Coloradans attend one3244of your venues and realize they are the victim of buying3245speculative tickets or fake tickets, what happens?3246    Mr. Weingarden. Yes, and that is a daily--that is a daily3247occurrence. Anytime that we have shows we have issues. It does3248not matter how big the act is or how small the act is, people3249are coming into our box offices at the Fox Theater, the Boulder3250Theater, the Aggie, and Fort Collins, and they are--and not3251only is the fan helpless but the venue is helpless because we3252have no--the only way that we can help them, as I had mentioned3253before, is that we can give them--we have these sheets printed3254out, laminated sheets printed out that say the customer support3255of each of the different--the scalper sites so they can call.3256    But the problem is is that, one, the phones do not get3257answered, the e-mails do not get--people do not respond to the3258e-mails, and it is always after the fact.3259    And so what happens is the--we are at a loss. We have no3260recourse that evening, and so we are left with, you know, a3261father who brought his teenage daughter to a show. They are--3262maybe they have come in from out of town, they have bought--3263they have hotels, they have got--they went to the restaurant,3264they have done everything they did. They are out of that money.3265Where does that----3266    Senator Hickenlooper. Right.3267    Mr. Weingarden. Where is the recourse there as well, you3268know? So we see this on a daily basis and it is a massive3269problem.3270    Senator Hickenlooper. Well, we will do our best to fix3271that.3272    Mr. Ritchie, and I have been--I am sure you have been3273astonished seeing, just as we all have, that the revenue that3274an artist makes is now no longer your royalties. It is where3275you perform, at least for most people. I think you might be in3276a different league in that.3277    But you have worked with countless venues and performers3278and middlemen and promoters and platforms, and as much as you3279love seeing fans sold out, I wanted to ask just a question3280about dynamic pricing and whether there is not a way to get the3281artist more money from that.3282    If that ticket is going to be resold, should not the artist3283get a piece of that, a cut of that, and would that not justify3284that open market after the tickets have been sold?3285    Mr. Ritchie. I do not know if it justifies it, but it3286definitely would have shut everybody up for a little while3287longer if they would have let the artist share----3288    Senator Hickenlooper. That is all we hope for in the3289Congress, right?3290    Mr. Ritchie. You know, secondary market or whatnot, but I3291think that was kind of--they started this thing called platinum3292ticketing and that is kind of what it was. It kind of shared a3293little--some of that revenue with the artist. It was just3294this--it is like, no, no, we do not want any of this.3295    You know, and to be honest with you, back in the day, I did3296not really understand it. I do not think most acts do either.3297You got these managers who are not really managers anymore.3298Manager used to just look out for one act. Now they have these3299conglomerate of acts. They have 10, 20, sometimes hundreds of3300acts.3301    So they got to play nice with everybody. They cannot just3302go, screw you, this is what my artist wants to do, blah, blah,3303blah, and they are going to take as much money as they can3304because they usually get paid a percentage off the top.3305    So I am not a fan of any of that. Like I said, I would3306rather just have them like an airline. I am going to have some3307first-class seats. I am going to have some economy seats. You3308are going to know what they are right up front.3309    Senator Hickenlooper. Yes. Well, I am out of time but I do3310appreciate all of you being here. You know, when I first got3311elected Governor, we had One Republic, Lumineers, Nathaniel3312Rateliff. All came and donated their time to play for our3313inaugural. That was fun.3314    Senator Blackburn. And like most good fans, you remember3315those special nights----3316    Senator Hickenlooper. Exactly.3317    Senator Blackburn.--around a concert and around a venue.3318    Senator Markey, recognized.33193320               STATEMENT OF HON. EDWARD MARKEY,3321                U.S. SENATOR FROM MASSACHUSETTS33223323    Senator Markey. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Thank you3324to Ranking Member Hickenlooper for holding today's important3325hearing.3326    And with my New England Patriots now playing Senator3327Cantwell's Seattle Seahawks in a Super Bowl in less than two3328weeks, this hearing comes at a fitting time because prices are3329sky high.3330    In fact, right now they are double the price to go to3331Denver for the Patriots-Denver game in that beautiful snow3332globe that you created.3333    [Laughter.]3334    Senator Markey. And so just absolutely--he was Governor and3335Mayor in Denver so just incredible.3336    But it is just absolutely crazy how high the prices are for3337a single ticket to these games, and it also comes just a few3338months ahead of the World Cup in the United States where ticket3339demand and ticket prices are just absolutely astronomical right3340now.3341    So consumers are understandably frustrated by the state of3342ticketing today. From hidden fees to ghost tickets to deceptive3343advertising, misleading ticketing practices plague the industry3344and it is time for them to end.3345    That is why Senator Schmitt and I have introduced the3346TICKET Act to clean up these unfair and harmful practices and3347we are doing it on a bipartisan basis, and I thank Senator Cruz3348and Senator Cantwell for signing up for this legislation and3349moving it through by a voice vote last year.3350    And I would like to ask for this letter from the Consumer3351League--National Consumers League, in support of the TICKET Act3352to be included in the record by----3353    Senator Blackburn. Without objection.3354    [The information referred to follows:]33553356                                  National Consumers League3357                                   Washington, DC, November 5, 202533583359Hon. Brianna K. Nadeau, Chairperson,3360Committee on Public Works and Operations,3361Council of the District of Columbia,3362Washington, DC.33633364Re: Submission of Supplemental Context on Testimony Supporting the3365            RESALE Amendment Act of 2025 (B26-0224)33663367Dear Chair Nadeau and Members of the Committee:33683369    On behalf of the National Consumers League (NCL), I respectfully3370submit the attached memorandum entitled ``Highlighting the Need for3371Context and Clarifications on Testimony Supporting the RESALE Amendment3372Act of 2025 (B26-0224).'' This document is intended to assist the3373Committee in its review of testimony presented at the October 22, 2025,3374hearing.3375    As outlined in the memorandum, a number of claims made by witnesses3376in support of the legislation relied on incomplete or inaccurate data,3377lacked methodological transparency, or omitted relevant affiliations3378bearing on the credibility of their arguments. NCL urges the Council to3379rely on verifiable evidence in evaluating these assertions to ensure3380that any legislative action taken serves the interests of District3381consumers and supports a fair, transparent live entertainment3382marketplace.3383    As noted in our testimony before the committee, NCL objects to huge3384secondary market ticket mark-ups that rip off consumers. Many of the3385reforms proposed in the RESALE Amendment Act echo protections that NCL3386has long supported at the Federal and state levels.\1\ Indeed many, if3387not most, of the RESALE Act's provisions, including a ban on3388speculative ticketing, all-in pricing requirements, refund3389requirements, anti-bot protections, and reseller registration3390requirements already enjoy nearly universal stakeholder support.3391---------------------------------------------------------------------------3392    \1\ Iscil, Eden. Oral testimony before the Council of the District3393of Columbia, Public Works and Operations Committee, October 22, 2025,33945:22:33 mark, video recording. Online: https://archive-3395video.granicus.com/dc/dc_2b34ed3c-bcbc-428a-8f89-fcc1c53e5802.mp43396---------------------------------------------------------------------------3397    NCL wholeheartedly supports the Council's efforts to reform a live3398event ticket marketplace that puts industry giants like Live Nation and3399unscrupulous scalpers first and fans last. We appreciate the3400Committee's continued attention to consumer protection issues and its3401commitment to evidence-based policymaking. NCL remains available to3402provide further information or analysis at the Committee's request.3403            Respectfully submitted,3404                                             John Breyault,3405      Vice President, Public Policy, Telecommunications, and Fraud,3406                                             National Consumers League.3407Attachment3408                                 ______34093410                               ATTACHMENT3411    November 5, 20253412   Highlighting the Need for Context and Clarifications on Testimony3413         Supporting the RESALE Amendment Act of 2025 (B26-0224)3414Introduction3415    The National Consumers League (NCL) respectfully submits this3416document to provide additional context and clarification regarding3417testimony presented in support of the RESALE Amendment Act of 20253418(B26-0224) at the Public Works and Operations Committee's October 22,34192025 hearing.\1\ Several claims made by industry representatives relied3420on incomplete or misleading data, lacked transparency about sources, or3421omitted relevant affiliations that bear on the credibility of their3422arguments. NCL urges the Council to base its decisions on verifiable3423evidence rather than industry-funded studies or anecdotal accounts, to3424ensure that any legislative action on ticket resale protects both3425consumers and the integrity of the District's live entertainment3426market.3427---------------------------------------------------------------------------3428    \1\ Public Works and Operations Committee Hearing Details (October342922, 2025) Online: https://lims.dccouncil.gov/Hearings/hearings/19523430---------------------------------------------------------------------------3431I. Claims regarding low ticket fraud rates in Europe are not consistent3432        with reported ticket fraud rate increases3433        ``You will hear about people claiming that resale price caps3434        result in fraud. Just hasn't been the international experiences3435        in countries like Belgium, Denmark, France, Italy, Poland,3436        etc.''34373438        --Kevin Erickson, Future of Music Coalition34393440    NCL Response: With the caveat that these kinds of crimes are3441significantly underreported and that there are language barriers in3442access to local reporting, there is data out of Europe showing issues3443with resale cap enforcement. For example, Belgium's Federal government3444recently reported a 250 percent increase in ticket fraud.\2\ Danish3445police also noted an uptick in recent years, from below 50 reports a3446year before 2019 to 496 reports in 2023.\3\ In Poland, consumers still3447faced fraud issues, with a 52 percent increase in reported scams to the3448payment app Revolut ahead of Taylor Swift concerts. Revolut stated that344991 percent of the transactions were initiated on Facebook.\4\3450---------------------------------------------------------------------------3451    \2\ Walker, Lauren. ``'Tip of the iceberg': Reports of fake tickets3452to events in Belgium have doubled.'' The Brussels Times. (June 25,34532024) Online: https://www.brusselstimes.com/1108280/tip-of-the-iceberg-3454over-doubled-reports-of-fake-tickets-to-belgian-events3455    \3\ Santos, Stacy Simmons. ``Ticket Fraud Surges Amid High Demand3456in Denmark.'' CelebrityAccess.com (August 2, 2023). Online: https://3457celebrityaccess.com/2023/08/02/ticket-fraud-surges-amid-high-demand-in-3458denmark/3459    \4\ Ujazdowski, Adam. ``Revolut Confirms Increase in Ticket Scams3460Ahead of Concerts in Warsaw.'' Poland Insight. (July 31, 2024). Online:3461https://polandinsight.com/revolut-confirms-increase-in-ticket-scams-3462ahead-of-concerts-in-warsaw-55806/3463---------------------------------------------------------------------------3464II. Rates of fraudulent tickets at I.M.P. venues require additional3465        data3466        ``Secondary sites are awash with fraudulent tickets, and they3467        may have a quote, unquote `guarantee,' for tickets, but when3468        fans come to our box offices with fake tickets, it's us at the3469        venue that are faced with an understandably angry customer that3470        thinks it's our fault.'' \5\3471---------------------------------------------------------------------------3472    \5\ Audrey Fix Schaefer, Testimony in Support of B26-0224,3473Restricting Egregious Scalping Against Live Entertainment (RESALE)3474Amendment Act of 2025, Committee on Public Works and Operations,3475Council of the District of Columbia, October 22, 2025. Online: https://3476lims.dccouncil.gov/Hearings/hearings/195234773478---------------------------------------------------------------------------3479        --Audrey Schaeffer, I.M.P.34803481    NCL response: This statement cites no data for either the scale of3482fraudulent tickets on secondary platforms or how often fans present3483fake tickets at I.M.P. box offices. While the secondary exchanges are3484not perfect, they are regulated and do not intentionally seek to3485defraud their consumers. It is likely that ticket fraud will increase3486if policies push ticket sales away from regulated secondary exchanges,3487as price caps are likely to do.3488III. Transparency about bill supporters' links to Live Nation is3489        necessary3490        ``MAC is an artist-driven organization that fights to ensure3491        that music creators have a voice at the table in policy3492        negotiations concerning industry practices that will directly3493        impact their careers, their livelihoods, and their families.''3494        \6\3495---------------------------------------------------------------------------3496    \6\ Ron Gubitz, Testimony in Support of B26-0224, Restricting3497Egregious Scalping Against Live Entertainment (RESALE) Amendment Act of34982025, on behalf of the Music Artists Coalition, before the Committee on3499Public Works and Operations, Council of the District of Columbia,3500October 21, 2025. Online: https://lims.dccouncil.gov/Hearings/hearings/3501195235023503---------------------------------------------------------------------------3504        --Ron Gubitz, Music Artists Coalition (MAC)35053506    NCL response: Gubitz's claim that MAC is an ``artist-driven3507organization'' neglects to note MAC's close ties to Live Nation3508Entertainment, with multiple two board members serving as current or3509former Live Nation executives.\7\3510---------------------------------------------------------------------------3511    \7\ Music Artists Coalition. ``Who We Are.'' Music Artists3512Coalition, 2025, https://www.musicartistscoalition.com/who-we-are3513Accessed November 5, 20253514---------------------------------------------------------------------------3515    MAC board member Irving Azoff is the former CEO and chairman of3516Ticketmaster and executive chairman of Live Nation. Azoff oversaw the3517merger of Live Nation and Ticketmaster in 2010. In 2012, Azoff stated,3518``[a]fter successfully overseeing the integration of Live Nation and3519Ticketmaster over the past two years, my job here is done.'' \8\ Azoff3520is also a co-founder of Oak View Group,\9\ a venue management company3521implicated in the U.S. Department of Justice's antitrust lawsuit3522against Live Nation Entertainment.\10\ The Federal Government stated3523that ``Live Nation and Oak View Group have colluded and established a3524partnership to allocate business lines, avoid competing with each3525other, and chart a mutually beneficial plan to cement Live Nation's3526dominance.'' \11\3527---------------------------------------------------------------------------3528    \8\ Live Nation Entertainment. ``Irving Azoff Resigns as Live3529Nation Entertainment Chairman and Front Line CEO.'' PR Newswire, 313530Dec. 2012, https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/irving-azoff-3531resigns-as-live-nation-entertainment-chairman-and-front-line-ceo-3532185320572.html. Accessed November 5, 2025.3533    \9\ Madison Square Garden Sports Corp. ``Tim Leiweke and Azoff MSG3534Entertainment Join Forces to Launch the Oak View Group (OVG).''3535Investor Relations--Madison Square Garden Sports Corp., November 16,35362015, https://investor.msgsports.com/press-releases/news-details/2015/3537Tim-Leiweke-and-Azoff-MSG-Entertainment-Join-Forces-to-Launch-the-Oak-3538View-Group-OVG/default.aspx.3539    \10\ United States Department of Justice, Office of Public Affairs.3540``Justice Department Sues Live Nation-Ticketmaster for Monopolizing3541Markets Across the Live Concert Industry.'' U.S. Department of Justice,3542May 23, 2024, https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/justice-3543department-sues-live-nation-ticketmaster-monopolizing-markets-across-3544live-concert3545    \11\ United States Department of Justice, Antitrust Division.3546Complaint: United States of America and Plaintiff States v. Live Nation3547Entertainment and Ticketmaster LLC. 2024, p. 31. Online: https://3548www.justice.gov/atr/media/1353101/dl3549---------------------------------------------------------------------------3550    In addition to Azoff, MAC board member Ali Harnell is the global3551president and chief strategy officer for Live Nation Women.\12\ MAC3552board member Coran Capshaw has partnered with Live Nation to develop3553multiple venues (e.g., Ascend Amphitheater in Nashville, Tennessee\13\3554and Riverfront Amphitheater in Richmond, Virginia\14\) and holds equity3555positions in multiple large scale music festivals that Live Nation has3556stock in (e.g., Bonaroo\15\ and Lollapalooza\16\ \17\).3557---------------------------------------------------------------------------3558    \12\ Harnell, Ali. ``Ali Harnell--LinkedIn.'' LinkedIn, https://3559www.linkedin.com/in/aliharnell/ Accessed November 5, 20253560    \13\ Capshaw, Coran. ``Coran Capshaw, Founder, Red Light3561Management.'' Pollstar News, May 16, 2019, Online: https://3562news.pollstar.com/2019/05/16/coran-capshaw-founder-red-light-3563management/3564    \14\ Spiers, Jonathan. `` `You Can Almost Feel the Energy':3565Riverfront Amphitheater Project Breaks Ground.'' Richmond BizSense,3566January 25, 2024, https://richmondbizsense.com/2024/01/25/can-almost-3567feel-energy-riverfront-amphitheater-project-breaks-ground/3568    \15\ Sisario, Ben. ``Live Nation Takes Control of Bonnaroo3569Festival.'' The New York Times, April 26, 2015, https://3570www.nytimes.com/2015/04/29/business/media/live-nation-takes-control-of-3571bonnaroo-festival.html3572    \16\ Dent, Robert. ``Universal Music Chairman Tops Billboard3573Industry Power List.'' Chicago Tribune, February 8, 2013, https://3574www.chicagotribune.com/2013/02/08/universal-music-chairman-tops-3575billboard-industry-power-list-2/3576    \17\ ``Live Nation Takes Control of Lollapalooza's C3 Presents.''3577Music Business Worldwide, December 21, 2014, https://3578www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/live-nation-takes-control-of-lolla3579paloozas-c3-presents/3580---------------------------------------------------------------------------3581    MAC board member Susan Genco is a co-president of the Azoff3582Company,\18\ an entertainment company founded by Irving Azoff that3583includes Oak View Group in its portfolio.\19\3584---------------------------------------------------------------------------3585    \18\ Susan Genco--LinkedIn.'' LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/3586in/susan-genco-5b0484166/ Accessed November 5, 20253587    \19\ Madison Square Garden Entertainment Corp. ``The Azoff Company3588Holdings Completes Acquisition of the Madison Square Garden Company's358950 Percent Interest in Azoff MSG Entertainment.'' Company News,3590December 6, 2018, https://www.msgentertainment.com/the-azoff-company-3591holdings-completes-acquisition-of-the-madison-square-garden-companys-359250-percent-interest-in-azoff-msg-entertainment/35933594        ``I represent the National Independent Venue Association. We3595        are the small stages in every community in the country. We are3596        promoters, we are venues, we are festivals, we are small3597        businesses and we're nonprofits.'' \20\3598---------------------------------------------------------------------------3599    \20\ Steven Parker, Executive Director, National Independent Venue3600Association. Oral testimony before the Committee on Public Works and3601Operations, Council of the District of Columbia, October 22, 2025.3602Hearing on B26-0224, Restricting Egregious Scalping Against Live3603Entertainment (RESALE) Amendment Act of 2025. Video recording, 3:20:273604mark. Online: https://archive-video.granicus.com/dc/dc_2b34ed3c-bcbc-3605428a-8f89-fcc1c53e5802.mp436063607---------------------------------------------------------------------------3608        --Steven Parker, National Independent Venue Association (NIVA)36093610    NCL Response: Mr. Parker's statement neglects to mention that in3611addition to his role at NIVA, he is also the Chairman of the Board of3612the Country Music Association (CMA) Foundation\21\ and an Ex-Officio3613Member of the CMA itself. CMA has numerous Live Nation executives on3614its Board of Directors, including Brian O'Connell (Live Nation3615Nashville), Anna-Sophie Mertens (Live Nation UK), Sally Williams (Live3616Nation).\22\3617---------------------------------------------------------------------------3618    \21\ Stephen Parker--LinkedIn.'' LinkedIn, https://3619www.linkedin.com/in/sparkerva/ Accessed November 5, 20253620    \22\ Country Music Association, Inc. (CMA). ``Board.'' CMA Member,3621https://cmamember.com/board/ Accessed November 5, 20253622---------------------------------------------------------------------------3623    NIVA's Board President is Audrey Schaeffer of I.M.P.\23\ All of3624I.M.P.'s venues are clients of Ticketmaster for primary ticketing3625services.\24\3626---------------------------------------------------------------------------3627    \23\ National Independent Venue Association. ``NIVA Board &3628Committees.'' National Independent Venue Association, https://3629www.nivassoc.org/board-committees Accessed November 5, 20253630    \24\ I.M.P. Concerts, https://impconcerts.com/faq/ Accessed3631November 5, 202536323633        ``The Fix the Tix Coalition is a broad alliance of3634        organizations and professionals across the live entertainment3635        ecosystem including Universal Music Group, the Recording3636        Industry Association of America, the Recording Academy, SAG-3637        AFTRA, the National Independent Venue Association, and many3638        independent venues, artists, and fan organizations across the3639        country.'' \25\3640---------------------------------------------------------------------------3641    \25\ Fix the Tix Coalition. Written Testimony on the Restricting3642Egregious Scalping Against Live Entertainment (RESALE) Amendment Act of36432025. Public Works and Operations Committee, Council of the District of3644Columbia, 22 Oct. 2025. https://lims.dccouncil.gov/Hearings/hearings/3645195236463647---------------------------------------------------------------------------3648        --Fix the Tix Coalition written testimony36493650    NCL Response: Members of the Fix the Tix Coalition\26\ also have3651ties to Live Nation Entertainment. The Music Artists Coalition has3652significant Live Nation influence on its board as outlined above.3653Universal Music Group has partnered with Live Nation on various3654business dealings.\27\ Sean Moriarty, the former president and CEO of3655Ticketmaster, is a board member of Eventbrite,\28\ which is also a Fix3656the Tix Coalition member.3657---------------------------------------------------------------------------3658    \26\ National Independent Venue Association. ``Fix The Tix.''3659National Independent Venue Association, https://www.nivassoc.org/3660fixthetix Accessed November 5, 20253661    \27\ Live Nation Partners with Universal Music Group.'' License3662Global, April 6, 2018, https://www.licenseglobal.com/music/live-nation-3663partners-universal-music-group3664    \28\ Eventbrite, Inc. ``Board of Directors.'' Eventbrite--Corporate3665Governance, https://investor.eventbrite.com/corporate-governance/board-3666of-directors/default.aspx Accessed November 5, 20253667---------------------------------------------------------------------------3668IV. NIVA's ``State of Live'' report data requires additional context3669        The two biggest threats to their continued existence are Live3670        Nation and Ticketmaster and an unchecked resale market. . . .3671        Last week, my organization released a report that showed that3672        60 percent of independent stages in DC were not profitable.3673        Part of that is the scalper problem. Part of that is the resale3674        platform, and ultimately, businesses will close without action3675        by this council.'' \29\3676---------------------------------------------------------------------------3677    \29\ Steven Parker, Executive Director, National Independent Venue3678Association. Oral testimony before the Committee on Public Works and3679Operations, Council of the District of Columbia, October 22, 2025.3680Hearing on B26-0224, Restricting Egregious Scalping Against Live3681Entertainment (RESALE) Amendment Act of 2025. Video recording, 3:20:403682and 3:24:49 mark.36833684---------------------------------------------------------------------------3685        --Steven Parker, National Independent Venue Association36863687    NCL Response: This statement requires correction and context. Mr.3688Parker's claim that scalping is one of the ``two biggest threats to3689their continued existence'' is contradicted by NIVA's ``State of Live''3690report that Mr. Parker apparently references. That report lists3691``Scalpers and Predatory Resale Platforms'' and as the 7th most3692frequently ranked operational challenge for independent venue, after3693marketing, higher artist fees, staffing costs, inflation, monopolies,3694and rising insurance costs.\30\3695---------------------------------------------------------------------------3696    \30\ National Independent Venue Association. The State of Live:3697National Report. 2025. Pg. 10. https://static1.squarespace.com/static/36985e91157c96fe495a4baf48f2/t/68e58e39bce25b729b47932e/1759874617679/2025-3699NIVA-State-of-Live-Report.pdf3700---------------------------------------------------------------------------3701    The ``State of Live'' report also states that 64 percent of3702independent stages were unprofitable in 2024. However, the report makes3703no distinction between independent venues operated by non-profit3704organizations versus for-profit companies. Despite Mr. Parker's3705statement to the contrary NIVA's report did not specify how many of3706those unprofitable venues are in the District. The report also noted3707that nearly half (49 percent) of stages reporting difficulty in3708maintaining their businesses in 2024 expect 2025 profitability to3709improve.3710V. NITO data relies on unclear data sources and flawed methodology3711        ``Building on that data, the National Independent Talent3712        Organization recently conducted a study of 65 random shows by3713        artists represented by our members. The findings are3714        staggering.37153716        Ticket resellers earned an average cumulative profit of $41,0003717        per show by charging roughly double the original ticket price.3718        In multiple cases, tickets were resold for 10 times face value.3719        In one instance, a ticket was resold for $1,014.49 when the3720        average face value was just $79.55.'' \31\3721---------------------------------------------------------------------------3722    \31\ Nichols, Randy. Testimony before the Council of the District3723of Columbia, Committee on Business and Economic Development, Re: B26-37240224, the RESALE Amendment Act of 2025. National Independent Talent3725Organization, 2025. Online: https://lims.dccouncil.gov/Hearings/3726hearings/195237273728---------------------------------------------------------------------------3729        --Randy Nichols, National Independent Talent Organization37303731    NCL Response: The National Independent Talent Organization (NITO)3732frequently cites a self-commissioned study to argue that restricting3733ticket transfers benefits fans.\32\ However, the study's design and3734data raise serious questions about its reliability and usefulness for3735policymaking.3736---------------------------------------------------------------------------3737    \32\ National Independent Talent Organization. Ticket Resale Study.3738October 2024, https://nitolive.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/NITO-3739Ticket-Resale-Study.pdf3740---------------------------------------------------------------------------3741    First, the sample includes only 65 shows, with no explanation of3742how they were chosen or whether they represent broader market3743conditions. The lack of transparency around venue size, artist type,3744and timing makes it impossible to know if the findings are3745generalizable.3746    Second, the study fails to disclose its data sources or methods for3747verifying resale prices. It appears to rely on ticket listings rather3748than actual sales--an invalid assumption that inflates the apparent3749cost of resale tickets. Moreover, because NITO represents only a small3750segment of the live entertainment industry, its findings are not3751necessarily applicable to larger venues or artists using different3752ticketing models.3753    Finally, the report does not account for basic market variables3754such as artist popularity, regional demand, or seasonality, nor does it3755explain whether outliers distorted its averages. By attributing all3756high resale prices to ``predatory resellers,'' the study overlooks3757other possible explanations such as limited supply, strong fan demand,3758or the pricing practices of primary sellers themselves. In short, the3759study provides a selective and incomplete view of the ticket market.3760Conclusion3761    In sum, the October 22nd hearing revealed significant gaps in the3762data and transparency underlying many arguments in favor of the RESALE3763Act. Claims of low fraud rates in Europe are contradicted by reports3764showing sharp increases in ticket scams abroad. Assertions about3765widespread fraud in U.S. secondary markets were unsupported by3766verifiable data, while the role of regulated resale platforms in3767protecting consumers was overlooked.3768    Several witnesses representing ``artist-driven'' or ``independent''3769organizations also failed to disclose close ties to Live Nation3770Entertainment and its affiliates, raising questions about potential3771conflicts of interest.3772    Taken together, these issues highlight the need for a more data-3773driven, transparent policymaking process before moving forward with3774legislation that could limit consumer choice and push ticket3775transactions into less regulated spaces. The Council should require3776credible, independently verifiable data on fraud rates, resale pricing,3777and market impacts before adopting measures that would affect both3778consumers and small businesses across the District's live entertainment3779ecosystem.37803781    Senator Markey. I thank you.3782    The National Consumers League and other groups such as the3783Sports Fan Coalition have been critical advocates for pro3784consumer and pro competition policies and I am proud to have3785their support on this bill.3786    And now I want to get each witness on the record about3787important policies in the TICKET Act, and I recognize, as Mr.3788Ritchie said earlier, that the TICKET Act does not solve every3789problem. We are aware of that.3790    But I do want to get some of the basic answers on the3791record in terms of what is in the bill itself, and so the first3792would be on all-in pricing.3793    Starting from my left, do you agree that ticket sellers and3794marketplaces should disclose the full price of a ticket up3795front?3796    Mr. Ritchie?3797    Mr. Ritchie. Yes.3798    Mr. Wall. Absolutely.3799    Mr. Berry. Yes, Senator.3800    Mr. Weingarden. Yes.3801    Senator Markey. Thank you. Good.3802    Next, speculative ticketing. Do you support a ban on3803speculative ticketing?3804    Mr. Ritchie. Yes.3805    Mr. Wall. In all circumstances without exceptions.3806    Mr. Berry. Pass the TICKET Act and ban speculative3807ticketing.3808    Mr. Weingarden. Absolutely.3809    Senator Markey. Thank you. So I thank you so much for that.3810    Do you--as we move to disclosure requirements, do you3811support prohibiting misleading resale advertising and use of3812deceptive URLs?3813    Mr. Ritchie. Yes.3814    Mr. Wall. Yes.3815    Mr. Berry. Yes, Senator.3816    Mr. Weingarden. Yes.3817    Senator Markey. And last will be refunds. Do you support3818providing consumers with a full refund when an event is3819canceled?3820    Mr. Ritchie. Yes.3821    Mr. Wall. Yes.3822    Mr. Berry. Yes, Senator.3823    Mr. Weingarden. Of course, yes.3824    Senator Markey. Thank you. Thank you.3825    Those answers were almost as good as the Patriots' defense3826against Denver on Sunday. So sorry about that.3827    [Laughter.]3828    Senator Markey. But I hear unanimous support for the key3829provisions in the TICKET Act from the main stakeholders in the3830ticketing industry, and I look forward to working with my3831colleagues to get this. It is a good start.3832    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Senator Markey.3833    I want to go to a second round of questions before we close3834this out and, Mr. Wall, I want to come to you, because in the3835FTC's complaint executives at Ticketmaster knew that scalpers3836were violating the ticket purchasing limits, and it seemed,3837from what I have read, that it was a big inside joke that you3838all knew this but you were allowing it to happen. Your C-suite3839knew of this.3840    One of your executives even wrote in an e-mail that we have3841stating that you, and I am quoting, ``turn a blind eye as a3842matter of policy,'' end quote.3843    Now, you have emphatically denied that this conduct3844needed--really had any sort of malfeasance. You all have denied3845that but I want you to answer.3846    Why would you have to turn a blind eye, as your executive3847put it, if there was no wrongdoing that was taking place?3848    Mr. Wall. I think that is taken very much out of context,3849Senator, but let me just cut to the chase here. Our actions3850speak----3851    Senator Blackburn. We will be happy to provide you the e-3852mail.3853    Mr. Wall. I have the e-mail. I have seen it.3854    Senator Blackburn. OK.3855    Mr. Wall. But our actions----3856    Senator Blackburn. Not out of context.3857    Mr. Wall.--speak louder than anything else. We showed up.3858We walked the walk. We actually put the money in. We improved3859our defenses. Our bot defenses are second to none in the world.3860    Senator Blackburn. They are, obviously, not up to par. You3861have got bots still getting through----3862    Mr. Wall. And we will----3863    Senator Blackburn.--and you have got scalpers that are3864still scooping up these tickets. So we have got a disconnect3865going on here somewhere.3866    Mr. Wall. And, Senator, we will always take the position3867that so long as tickets are still going on this way then we are3868not up to par. That is our position, too.3869    Senator Blackburn. OK. Well, let us accept that and let us3870say there is work to be done. So do you accept any3871responsibility when a fan is hit with a speculative or ghost3872ticket?3873    Mr. Wall. Never, because we do not allow those on3874Ticketmaster and have not for years.3875    Senator Blackburn. But it is happening.3876    Mr. Berry, how about your members?3877    Mr. Berry. I am sorry, Senator. Do our members support----3878    Senator Blackburn. Take any responsibility?3879    Mr. Berry. Absolutely, Senator. We serve tens of millions3880of fans every year.3881    Senator Blackburn. OK. And, Mr. Wall, why can't3882Ticketmaster not work with artists and do what Mr. Ritchie has3883recommended where you would have tiered opportunities for fans?3884Why can you not all make that happen?3885    Mr. Wall. So Ticketmaster never sets prices itself.3886However, Live Nation and Ticketmaster do offer the whole--the3887tiers, the platinums.3888    For example, we are--we stand alone. We are the only resale3889site that will consistently--if Mr. Ritchie says he does not3890want us to turn on resale on our Ticketmaster marketplace we3891will not. If we do, we will pay him a portion of it.3892    Senator Blackburn. Mr. Ritchie?3893    Mr. Ritchie. I do not--that is the first time--I have heard3894very recently from Michael, the CEO, that we could do this cap3895or not have resale.3896    I am like--he goes, yes, we have done it for other artists3897for a while now for Pearl Jam, which is maybe why they are not3898here making a stink today still. They might have a side deal3899from what I have seen. I am, like, why do not----3900    Senator Blackburn. So it is not standard operating----3901    Mr. Ritchie. They are, like, you can have this deal, too. I3902am, like, why have you not told us this? Oh, we are really bad3903at advertising. I am, like, come on, that is bull--that is BS.3904    Senator Blackburn. Yes.3905    Mr. Wall. There is nothing--there is nothing unusual about3906these arrangements I am talking. Every artist that we promote3907has the option to tell us----3908    Senator Blackburn. How can it not be unusual if the artists3909do not know that this is an option?3910    Mr. Ritchie. Right. We have no idea.3911    Mr. Wall. You know, I would be happy to put in the record3912the list of dozens of artists----3913    Senator Blackburn. Then you need to start supplying------3914    [Simultaneous speaking.]3915    Senator Blackburn. You need to--I would recommend that you3916submit a list. Let me ask you to submit a list of artists who3917are able to control their ticket sales, who are able to turn3918off the secondary market, and who are able to work with you how3919they want to tier these tickets.3920    Let me move on to----3921    Mr. Wall. Senator--if I may, Senator----3922    Senator Blackburn. Well, no, I am moving on.3923    Mr. Wall. Face value exchange. We are the only one that3924offers artists the opportunity to do face value exchange.3925    Mr. Ritchie. How long?3926    Senator Blackburn. Mr. Wall, I have got another--I have got3927another question for you.3928    Mr. Wall. Since we had invented it a few years ago.3929    Mr. Ritchie. I have never heard of it. I am very close with3930a lot of people at Live Nation.3931    Senator Blackburn. OK. We are going to move on to another.3932    Senator Lujan referenced the letter that he and I sent to3933you.3934    Mr. Wall. Yes.3935    Senator Blackburn. And I have got it right here. I will3936submit it for the record without objection.3937    [The information referred to follows:]39383939                                       United States Senate3940                                 Washington, DC, September 30, 202539413942VIA ELECTRONIC TRANSMISSION39433944Joe Berchtold,3945President & Chief Financial Officer,3946Live Nation Entertainment, Inc.,3947Beverly Hills, CA.39483949Dear Mr. Berchtold:39503951    We write to express our grave concern over recent allegations3952regarding the harm that Ticketmaster engaged in a ``bait-and-switch''3953scheme to drive up ticket prices.\1\ When you testified before the3954Senate Judiciary Committee in 2023, you told Congress ``We believe that3955the artist-fan connection is the foundation of the live entertainment3956industry, the source of nearly all commercial value, and the number one3957thing that public policy should protect.'' \2\ Yet, according to a3958lawsuit filed by the Federal Trade Commission and seven states3959attorneys general, Ticketmaster coordinated with ticket brokers3960allowing them to obtain millions of dollars of tickets which they then3961resold on the secondary market.\3\3962---------------------------------------------------------------------------3963    \1\ FTC v. Live Nation Ent., Inc., Compl. for Perm. Inj., Monetary3964Relief, Civil Penalties, and Other Relief at 6, No. 2:25-cv-08884 (C.D.3965Cal. Sept. 18, 2025) [hereinafter FTC Compl.].3966    \2\ That's the Ticket: Promoting Competition and Protecting3967Consumers in Live Ent. Hearing Before the S. Comm. on the Judiciary,3968118th Cong. 8 (2023) (statement of Joe Berchtold, President & CEO, Live3969Nation Ent.) [hereinafter Senate Hearing].3970    \3\ FTC Compl. at 54.3971---------------------------------------------------------------------------3972    Ticketmaster has allegedly turned a blind eye to bad actors3973violating the Better Online Ticket Sales (BOTS) Act for years, costing3974fans billions of dollars in hard earned money. Instead of working with3975trusted cybersecurity professionals and Congress to protect consumers3976and stop ticket scalping, Ticketmaster went so far as to provide3977technical support to help ``brokers'' exceed their purchasing limits to3978buy up tickets.\4\ This decision allowed Ticketmaster to collect fees3979at three different points in the purchasing process. Ticketmaster3980collects fees when scalpers buy tickets on the primary market, they3981collect more fees when those tickets are then sold on its own secondary3982market, and they charge even more fees when fans eventually purchase3983the resold tickets.\5\3984---------------------------------------------------------------------------3985    \4\ Id. at 41.3986    \5\ Id.3987---------------------------------------------------------------------------3988    This conduct was not isolated, nor was meaningful action taken to3989bring this misconduct to a halt. When employees flagged the abuse3990occurring on Ticketmaster's platform, their concerns were allegedly3991ignored. Ticketmaster was not worried about the consumer. In fact,3992reporting indicates that Ticketmaster was more concerned when brokers3993complained about high-volume purchases that were blocked. A3994Ticketmaster executive even wrote that they ``turn a blind eye as a3995matter of policy'' to the violation of their own purchasing limits.\6\3996LiveNation went so far as to ``offer technological support to brokers3997through a software platform called TradeDesk, which enables brokers to3998track and aggregate tickets purchased from multiple Ticketmaster3999accounts into a single interface for simpler resale management.'' \7\4000These actions stem from purely financial motives--if Ticketmaster had4001enforced its ticket purchasing limits, the company stood to lose up to4002$220 million in resale revenue per year.\8\4003---------------------------------------------------------------------------4004    \6\ Id at 9.4005    \7\ Id at 43.4006    \8\ Id at 49.4007---------------------------------------------------------------------------4008    When you appeared before the Senate Judiciary Committee in 20234009following the Taylor Swift Ticketmaster meltdown, you repeatedly4010assured the committee that Ticketmaster does everything in its power to4011stop bots and scalpers.\9\ When pressed on the issue of cybersecurity4012protections, you seemed dumbfounded and argued that LiveNation spent4013over a billion dollars investing in site protections against bots.\10\4014It is astounding that you would make such a claim while actively4015colluding with scalpers and bad actors to extort the American public.4016---------------------------------------------------------------------------4017    \9\ See, e.g., Senate Hearing at 9 (statement of Joe Berchtold,4018President & CEO, Live Nation Ent.).4019    \10\ Id. at 48.4020---------------------------------------------------------------------------4021    America's world-leading live entertainment industry is the center4022of our culture, and consumers deserve the opportunity to see their4023favorite band or cheer on their hometown sports team without competing4024with bots and fraudsters. Instead of casting blame on any entity other4025than Ticketmaster, we urge you to be forthright with Congress and the4026American public about the extent of your complicity in allowing bots to4027buy up and hoard massive amounts of tickets. With that in mind, please4028respond to the following questions by October 14, 2025:40294030  1.  Live Nation's July 2025 comment in response to the DOJ-FTC RFI on4031        Anticompetitive Practices in Live Ticketing claims that4032        ``Ticketmaster does not turn a blind eye'' \11\ to violations4033        of the BOTS Act. However, in an internal e-mail that copied4034        Live Nation leadership, a senior Ticketmaster executive wrote4035        that the companies ``turn a blind eye as a matter of policy''4036        to brokers' violations of posted ticket limits.\12\ Do you4037        stand by the statement that Live Nation, its Ticketmaster4038        subsidiary, or any other Live Nation-affiliated entity does not4039        ``turn a blind eye'' to violations of the BOTS Act?4040---------------------------------------------------------------------------4041    \11\ Live Nation Ent. Inc., Comment Letter on DOJ-FTC RFI on4042Anticompetitive Practices in Live Ticketing 12 (July 7, 2025), https://4043www.regulations.gov/comment/ATR-2025-0002-3566.4044    \12\ FTC Compl. at 9.40454046  2.  Did Live Nation or Ticketmaster ever purposefully relax4047        enforcement of ticket limits for certain buyers or brokers for4048---------------------------------------------------------------------------4049        financial gain?40504051  3.  In 2023, you told the Senate Judiciary Committee that the issues4052        in the ticketing industry are ``the direct result of the4053        industrial-scale scalping that goes on today'' \13\ and that4054        ``[w]e are doing everything we can to fight the people who4055        attack our sales and steal tickets meant for real fans.'' \14\4056        By contrast, a recent investigation found that Ticketmaster4057        knew that just five brokers controlled thousands of4058        Ticketmaster accounts, possessing nearly a quarter of a million4059        tickets. Despite being aware of this, Ticketmaster continued to4060        offer and sell tickets to these very same brokers purchased by4061        circumventing Ticketmaster's enforcement measures. Do you still4062        stand by your statement that the company is doing ``everything4063        we can'' to fight ``industrial-scale scalping''?4064---------------------------------------------------------------------------4065    \13\ Senate Hearing at 9 (statement of Joe Berchtold, President &4066CEO, Live Nation Ent.).4067    \14\ Senate Hearing at 57 (written statement of Joe Berchtold,4068President & CEO, Live Nation Ent.).40694070  4.  You testified in 2023 that Ticketmaster invested millions in4071        anti-BOT technology every year and that the company is ``far4072        and away the leader in preventing fraud and getting tickets4073        into the hands of real fans.'' \15\ By contrast, the FTC's4074        investigation found that--far from preventing fraudulent use of4075        multiple accounts by brokers--the company considered4076        encouraging brokers to consolidate their duplicate accounts4077        into a single account so that they could continue accessing4078        their unlawfully purchased tickets.4079---------------------------------------------------------------------------4080    \15\ Id.40814082      a.  Why is Ticketmaster investing millions of dollars annually in4083            anti-bot technology while you are actively helping scalpers4084---------------------------------------------------------------------------4085            circumvent it?40864087      b.  Given the FTC's findings, do you stand by your statement that4088            Ticketmaster is ``far and away the leader in preventing4089            fraud and getting tickets into the hands of real fans''?40904091  5.  The FTC asserts that brokers routinely exceeded posted ticket4092        limits and then resold through Ticketmaster's resale4093        marketplace.40944095      a.  Did Live Nation or Ticketmaster ever audit brokers to ensure4096            compliance with posted limits?40974098      b.  If any brokers were discovered to have exceeded limits, how4099            were they disciplined or excluded?41004101  6.  Do you support the MAIN Event Ticketing Act's reporting4102        requirement that obligates ticket sellers to notify the FTC of4103        any known circumvention incidents?4104            Sincerely,4105                                          Marsha Blackburn,4106                                             United States Senator.4107                                             Ben Ray Lujan,4108                                             United States Senator.4109                                 ______41104111                                                Live Nation4112                                Beverly Hills, CA, October 17, 20254113VIA EMAIL41144115Senator Marsha Blackburn,4116United States Senate,4117Washington, DC.41184119Senator Ben Ray Lujan,4120United States Senate,4121Washington, DC.41224123Re: September 30, 2025, Letter Concerning FTC Allegations41244125Dear Senators Blackburn and Lujan:41264127    I write in response to your letter dated September 30, 2025,4128seeking information regarding certain allegations in the complaint4129recently filed by the Federal Trade Commission (``FTC'') and seven4130state attorneys general against Ticketmaster L.L.C. (``Ticketmaster'')4131and its parent, Live Nation Entertainment, Inc. (``Live Nation'').\1\ I4132want to assure you that Live Nation and Ticketmaster share your4133commitment to supporting artists and fans and protecting the integrity4134of the live entertainment industry. Unfortunately, the recently filed4135lawsuit does not advance that shared objective. The FTC complaint4136presents a distorted view of the facts and the law, specifically the4137Better Online Ticket Sales (BOTS) Act. While we would prefer to work4138with the FTC on addressing the real threats to the live event industry4139instead of litigating these claims, we look forward to setting the4140record straight here, and if necessary in court.4141---------------------------------------------------------------------------4142    \1\ Complaint, FTC v. Live Nation Ent., Inc., No. 2:25-cv-088844143(C.D. Cal. Sept. 18, 2025) (``Compl.'').4144---------------------------------------------------------------------------4145    Ticketmaster is an industry leader in the fight against bots and4146ticket scalping.\2\ Among its many initiatives, Ticketmaster has:4147---------------------------------------------------------------------------4148    \2\ See That's the Ticket: Promoting Competition and Protecting4149Consumers in Live Entertainment: Hearing Before the S. Comm. on the4150Judiciary, 118th Cong. 8-9, 57 (2023) (statement of Joe Berchtold,4151President & CFO, Live Nation Entertainment) (``Senate Hr'g''); Live4152Nation Ent. Inc., Comment Letter on DOJ-FTC RFI on Anticompetitive4153Practices in Live Ticketing 2-3 (July 7, 2025) (``DOJ-FTC Comment'').41544155   Invested more than $1 billion in ticketing technology,4156        including anti-bot technology, fraud detection, and ticket4157---------------------------------------------------------------------------4158        security.41594160   Invented rotating barcodes and digital ticketing to stop4161        screenshot resale.41624163   Pioneered SafeTix and the smart queue digital waiting rooms4164        to get tickets in the hands of real fans rather than bad4165        actors.41664167   Developed powerful new technologies designed to prevent4168        inauthentic account creation and provide for ongoing account4169        validation.41704171    At the same time, Ticketmaster has recognized that private sector4172action alone cannot outpace rapid advancements in ticket scalping4173technology. Especially with AI, bad actors are only getting faster,4174smarter, and harder to stop. We recently called attention to the4175proliferation of ticket harvesting technologies in our comments in4176response to President Trump's Executive Order on Combating Unfair4177Practices in the Live Entertainment Market. And since this is an4178industry-wide problem, Live Nation and Ticketmaster have repeatedly4179called on Congress and regulators to act in this space by enhancing4180legislative and regulatory protections. We have offered to lend our4181extensive experience in combatting ticket scalpers, as well as evidence4182from our various abuse-detection measures, to assist in formulating4183policies and legislation, and building cases against bad actors. The4184decision by the FTC to forgo that path in favor of litigation is4185disappointing. Even more disappointing is the complaint's strained4186attempt to portray Ticketmaster--the company that has indisputably done4187more than anyone else in the industry to fight the bad actors--as4188somehow complicit in their schemes.4189    In your letter, you expressed concerns about Ticketmaster's4190ticketing practices based on allegations in the complaint. We address4191each of the major contentions.4192    1. ``Colluding with Scalpers'': Your letter paraphrases the FTC as4193alleging that ``Ticketmaster coordinated with ticket brokers allowing4194them to obtain millions of dollars of tickets which they then resold on4195the secondary market.'' Later you state Ticketmaster was ``actively4196colluding with scalpers and bad actors to extort the American public.''4197We fully understand how one could get this impression from the FTC's4198complaint and press statements, but it is categorically false. No facts4199alleged in the FTC complaint indicate that Ticketmaster has conspired4200with ticket brokers to put tickets directly on resale markets. Live4201Nation and Ticketmaster do not allow that. We have for many years4202opposed the various ``direct-to-secondary'' schemes that others have4203come up with. We believe that other than standard industry and venue4204holds, all tickets to every concert should be made available to fans4205through the primary ticketing channel. And we can assure you that today4206every concert ticket that Ticketmaster is asked to distribute is sold4207through onsales that are open to fans. None are secretly sold or4208transferred to ticket brokers. To answer one of your questions4209directly, no, neither Live Nation nor Ticketmaster ever ``purposefully4210relax enforcement of ticket limits for certain buyers or brokers for4211financial gain.''4212    The FTC complaint creates this misimpression by conflating4213``conspiracy'' with a longstanding practice of primary ticketing4214companies allowing ticket brokers to maintain multiple accounts. That4215ticket brokers have been allowed to maintain multiple accounts is true;4216calling that conspiracy is specious. The reality is that brokers have4217had multiple accounts for a very long time--long before Ticketmaster4218entered the secondary ticketing business in 2014, and well before4219StubHub created the first successful secondary ticket marketplace in4220the early 2000s. This practice harkens back to the days of physical4221tickets, when ticket brokers would often have a number of employees or4222others paid to stand in line and purchase concert tickets--a practice4223that was generally accepted in the industry. Similarly, it was4224generally accepted that a broker with multiple employees could have4225each person hold an account and separately purchase tickets. All this4226can be done legitimately under the rules of the primary ticketing4227companies without having to resort to any unlawful behavior.4228    This is all apparently a surprise to the FTC, but as the agency4229singularly charged with BOTS Act enforcement, it shouldn't be. Ticket4230resale is dominated by broker inventory. StubHub, SeatGeek and Vivid4231Seats live and die by ticket brokers, getting 80 to 100 percent of4232their inventory from brokers. And while there are lots of ways brokers4233acquire inventory, many plainly illegal, using multiple accounts is one4234method and not inherently illegal. To be sure, it has gotten out of4235hand, especially since scalpers developed automated tools for creating4236Ticketmaster accounts. Given the level of abuse we are now seeing, we4237are no longer permitting this, as described below. But this is neither4238conspiracy nor collusion as implied by the FTC lawsuit.4239    2. TradeDesk: Your letter also appears to accept the FTC's4240characterization of an inventory management system, TradeDesk, as4241technological support for unlawful ticket harvesting. This is plainly4242false. TradeDesk is a suite of ticket management tools that streamline4243a reseller's business operations, including pricing, inventory4244distribution, and order fulfillment on various ticket marketplaces,4245including but not limited to Ticketmaster. It is one of numerous4246inventory management systems for ticket resellers, some from other4247ticketing companies like Ticket Utils from StubHub\3\ and SkyBox from4248Vivid Seats,\4\ and some from independent technology providers like4249Automatiq.\5\ Brokers use these tools to manage all their tickets4250across sports, concerts, etc.4251---------------------------------------------------------------------------4252    \3\ https://www.ticketutils.com/ We understand StubHub is replacing4253TicketUtils with a new product called Reach.4254    \4\ https://skybox.vividseats.com/welcome.html4255    \5\ https://automatiq.com/4256---------------------------------------------------------------------------4257    TradeDesk has no functionality to buy primary tickets. Contrary to4258the FTC's allegation, the TradeDesk platform does not in any way enable4259``bots to buy up and hoard massive amounts of tickets.'' \6\ And while4260TradeDesk--like every product in this class--has a syncing feature that4261enables brokers to aggregate tickets from multiple accounts into a4262single interface, that feature is simply a reflection that ticket4263brokers have multiple accounts.\7\ If anything, the prevalence of tools4264like this from multiple vendors should indicate that it is not4265unlawful, nor a violation of our terms and conditions, to hold multiple4266accounts.4267---------------------------------------------------------------------------4268    \6\ 9/30/2025 Ltr. at 2.4269    \7\ Furthermore, in Ticketmaster's case, the syncing feature is4270used as a consumer-protective strategy to prevent fraudulent listings--4271a serious problem on other resale platforms. TradeDesk provides an4272efficient way for Ticketmaster to verify that a ticket is valid and in4273the seller's possession.4274---------------------------------------------------------------------------4275    We have come to the conclusion that the reputational harm to4276Ticketmaster from having to explain and defend TradeDesk exceeds its4277value. While we believe this criticism is unfair, we are removing4278TradeDesk's concerts ticket management functionality from the4279market.\8\ As noted, there are many similar products, so TradeDesk4280users will likely shift to them. But at least no one will again be able4281to claim that because Ticketmaster has a resale management product, it4282has no standing to advocate for resale market reforms.4283---------------------------------------------------------------------------4284    \8\ The primary use of TradeDesk has been in sports, where many4285teams use brokers for distribution and brokers need multiple accounts4286to do what the teams ask of them. We intend to incorporate some4287TradeDesk functionality into a new product to support this. It will not4288support concert ticket resale.4289---------------------------------------------------------------------------4290    3. ``Turning a Blind Eye'': Live Nation and Ticketmaster do not4291``turn a blind eye to bad actors violating the Better Online Ticket4292Sales (BOTS) Act.'' \9\ This is a particularly frustrating allegation,4293since we have invested more than a billion dollars in ticketing4294technology, including anti-bot and fraud detection measures.\10\ These4295investments are unmatched in the industry, and they have allowed Live4296Nation and Ticketmaster to block an ever-increasing number of bots--4297including some 8.7 billion bots in April 2025 alone.\11\ We are the4298only company active in secondary ticketing that supported the BOTS Act4299and encouraged its enforcement. We encouraged and supported President4300Trump's Executive Order, have called on the FTC to more aggressively4301pursue enforcement actions for BOTS Act violations, and also called on4302Congress to broaden the BOTS Act, provide a private right of action,4303ban speculative ticket listings, and more. Far from turning a blind4304eye, Live Nation and Ticketmaster have been facing these issues head on4305and diligently trying to address them. So, yes, in answer to your4306question 4.b, we do stand by our previous statement that Ticketmaster4307is ``far and away the leader in preventing fraud and getting tickets4308into the hands of real fans.''4309---------------------------------------------------------------------------4310    \9\ 9/30/2025 Ltr. at 1.4311    \10\ Live Nation and Ticketmaster do not publicly discuss the4312methods and technologies used to enforce ticket limits and prevent4313bots, but they have provided detailed information to the FTC.4314    \11\ See DOJ-FTC Comment 2, 5.4315---------------------------------------------------------------------------4316    The FTC's blind-eye allegations are premised on the idea that4317Ticketmaster cozies up to ticket brokers ``to collect fees at three4318different points in the purchasing process.'' \12\ This makes no4319economic sense. It would were Ticketmaster a resale-only marketplace4320like StubHub and Vivid Seats, or even like SeatGeek, which makes most4321of its money from secondary. But secondary ticketing accounts for4322approximately 3 percent of Live Nation's revenue, and revenue from fees4323on concert ticket resale is less than 2 percent of Live Nation's4324revenue. Ticketmaster's market share in concert ticket resale is also4325less than 20 percent, meaning that over 80 percent of the time a4326concert ticket gets resold, some other marketplace collects any resale4327fees. In this setting, Live Nation's incentives are plainly to favor4328its relationships with artists and fans and Ticketmaster's primary4329ticketing business, and not to jeopardize any of that for the benefit4330of such a small portion of its operations. This is why Ticketmaster is4331alone among secondary marketplaces in supporting resale reform.4332---------------------------------------------------------------------------4333    \12\ 9/30/2025 Ltr. at 1.4334---------------------------------------------------------------------------4335    Against all that, the FTC complaint repeatedly highlights a4336September 2018 internal e-mail among Ticketmaster and Live Nation4337personnel to assert that the companies `` `turn a blind eye as a matter4338of policy' to brokers' violations of posted ticket limits.'' \13\ That4339is not what the e-mail says, nor what the author of the e-mail meant--4340which the FTC failed to understand in part because they did not take4341any depositions prior to filing its lawsuit. The author's point was4342that while Ticketmaster has ``lots of anti-abuse tools that we use4343actively,'' because of the company's ``policy of keeping a wall between4344our primary and resale operations,'' the Ticketmaster resale operation4345could not distinguish between properly and improperly sourced tickets.4346In other words, the ``policy'' he was complaining about was the4347``wall,'' which the company had erected for antitrust compliance4348reasons, i.e., to guard against claims that it was using its primary4349ticketing business to advantage its resale business. He was not saying4350that Ticketmaster had a policy to let brokers circumvent ticket limits.4351The FTC picked nine words out of context and changed the policy those4352words addressed to create that misimpression.\14\ It also misleadingly4353presented that seven-year-old e-mail as reflecting present-day4354policy.\15\4355---------------------------------------------------------------------------4356    \13\ Compl.4357 15; see id.43584359 82, 90-91.4360    \14\ The ``wall'' exists to this date, as in the ensuing years4361unfounded complaints that Ticketmaster leverages its position in4362primary ticketing for the benefit of its resale business have been4363constant.4364    \15\ See Compl.43654366 90-91.4367---------------------------------------------------------------------------4368    This discussion occurred in the aftermath of the CBC stories about4369TradeDesk in October 2018. At that time, Ticketmaster indeed reviewed4370its policies toward brokers and resale generally. And of course, as the4371FTC emphasizes, Ticketmaster assessed the economic implications of4372various alternatives as anyone would. But what the FTC missed is that4373Ticketmaster mainly focused on what would be effective in addressing4374the root cause of brokers creating and using inauthentic Ticketmaster4375accounts (irrespective of predicted impact on the business). Measures4376that would simply cause brokers to avoid Ticketmaster and post on other4377resale marketplaces instead were fundamentally illusory, and rejected4378on that basis. On the other hand, Ticketmaster did not decide to do4379nothing, as the FTC claims. To the contrary, it chose to expand its4380abuse prevention and account verification measures, which it determined4381would address root causes. Wave after wave of more sophisticated and4382effective abuse prevention measures followed, counter to the FTC's4383suggestion that Ticketmaster decided to do nothing at all.4384    4. The BOTS Act: We want to be very clear that Ticketmaster has4385never tolerated, let alone facilitated, violations of the BOTS Act. We4386do not believe the FTC has alleged a credible BOTS Act violation by4387Ticketmaster, and we are confident it will not prove one.4388    As strong supporters of the BOTS Act, we have always been thankful4389to Sen. Blackburn for championing it--and thankful to you both for4390looking to enhance it through the MAIN Event Ticketing Act. We have4391also had a clear understanding of its meaning. It was passed as a first4392but important step in addressing the growing problem of ticket scalpers4393using automated purchasing scripts called bots and other technological4394exploits to buy substantial volumes of tickets from primary ticketing4395companies like Ticketmaster. In short, it was passed to help us with4396our work to fend off automated ticket harvesting by making it illegal4397to circumvent the technological controls we use to enforce ticket4398limits.4399    To that end, the BOTS Act makes it unlawful for any person ``to4400circumvent a security measure, access control system, or other4401technological control or measure'' that a primary ticketing company4402uses ``to enforce posted event ticket purchasing limits or to maintain4403the integrity of posted online ticket purchasing order rules.'' The act4404of circumventing a technological control is illegal on its own. But4405then a companion section makes it illegal ``to sell or offer to sell''4406any ticket acquired through circumvention if the seller participated in4407the circumvention, controlled the circumvention, or ``knew or should4408have known that the event ticket was acquired'' through circumvention.4409Here is a graphical representation of how the statute works.44104411[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]44124413    At its core, the BOTS Act targets three things a scalper might do:4414it might circumvent our controls itself, it might get someone else to4415circumvent our controls, and it will sell or at least try to sell the4416tickets acquired through circumvention.4417    The FTC case is based on a fundamentally novel and expansionist4418view of the BOTS Act that makes it illegal to circumvent ticket4419limits--full stop--not just technological controls protecting ticket4420limits. They have written ``technological controls or measures'' out of4421the statute, deeming that unnecessary to finding circumvention. And4422upon that foundation, they claim that whenever a secondary ticketing4423marketplace sees that an individual or entity is posting more tickets4424than the one-account ticket limit, the marketplace knows there has been4425circumvention and therefore also violates the BOTS Act.4426    This will all be resolved in the litigation but suffice it to say4427that we strongly disagree with the FTC's position. Ironically, just4428days before the FTC staff revealed their new theory, we had urged4429President Trump to support an expansion of the BOTS Act that was not4430limited to circumvention of technological controls.\16\ For now,4431however, that is undisputedly a limiting principle. The Act does not4432give the ticket limit itself the power of Federal law. The countless4433families, friends groups, church groups and others who have used4434multiple accounts to seek tickets to see a favorite artist are not BOTS4435Act violators. The scalpers who use technological exploits to buy4436tickets are.4437---------------------------------------------------------------------------4438    \16\ See DOJ-FTC Comment at 11:44394440    The key prohibition [of the BOTS Act] is structured so that it is4441unlawful for any person to ``circumvent a security measure, access4442control system, or other technological control or measure'' used ``to4443enforce posted event ticket purchasing limits or to maintain the4444integrity of posted online ticket purchasing order rules.'' That is a4445rather indirect way to describe what bots do. It requires an inquiry4446into whether there is ``circumvent[ion]'' of security measures, which4447is not only unnecessary but invites arguments that defenses ticketing4448companies put up against improper ticket harvesting do not qualify as4449security measures to enforce ticket limits or ticket purchasing order4450---------------------------------------------------------------------------4451rules.44524453    Live Nation has proposed an amendment to the BOTS Act that would4454make circumvention of security measures subordinate to a broader4455prohibition that makes it unlawful for ticket brokers ``to use or cause4456to be used any software application that runs automated tasks over the4457Internet to purchase event tickets from an Internet website or online4458ticket marketplace.'' Since there is no downside from ``over-4459deterring'' bots usage, the prohibition should be broadly worded.4460    5. Addressing the Proliferation of Broker Accounts: We of course4461understand that the emotional force of the FTC's lawsuit comes from the4462fact that some ticket brokers today simply have too many accounts. It4463doesn't matter whether that's lawful or unlawful. What started as a4464reasonable and acceptable level of behavior has been abused, and today4465it is growing exponentially through digitally exploited means. It's4466unfair to artists and fans and it is time to do something about it.4467    This is not an easy issue, because, as we have said before, the4468practice in the industry for a very long time has been to let4469professional resellers have multiple accounts and use them to try to4470buy tickets. We have never thought it was our place to change4471unilaterally the historical practices of the industry.\17\ Instead, we4472have focused on stopping scalpers from creating fake accounts, and we4473have developed ticket queueing processes that with increasing efficacy4474favor fans who actually attend events over purchasers that transfer4475tickets instead of attending. Favoring fans is also the idea behind our4476preregistration product Artist Sign Up, and our Face Value Exchange4477that allows artists to choose not to permit any for-profit transfers.4478---------------------------------------------------------------------------4479    \17\ Your Question 5 asks whether Ticketmaster audits brokers to4480ensure compliance with posted limits. At an artist's request,4481Ticketmaster conducts ``OTL Sweeps'' that are meant to determine if4482tickets were acquired with bots or other unauthorized means. Brokers4483are regularly caught in OTL sweeps, since normally bad brokers rather4484than fans are acquiring tickets through improper means.4485---------------------------------------------------------------------------4486    To counter this increasingly unfair behavior, our policy will now4487be to limit everyone and every entity, ticket brokers included, to only4488one Ticketmaster account. This is not easy to do--and we know scalpers4489will do everything in their power to undermine us. But fortunately, we4490have new AI tools and identity verification technology that we think4491makes this a reasonable aspiration. It also aligns with the FTC's4492position that it is illegal for brokers to use more than one account to4493buy tickets. We are therefore announcing today that we will no longer4494let any broker maintain, buy tickets with, or post resale tickets with4495more than one account. Excess accounts will be canceled in due course.4496Nor will we allow any broker to post more tickets on our resale4497marketplace than the posted ticket limit. To that end, we will require4498every account that wishes to post tickets for resale on Ticketmaster4499have a unique Taxpayer Identification Number (SSN or EID).4500    Experience teaches us that we can expect all sorts of exploits and4501subterfuges to get around this policy. We will therefore be increasing4502our efforts to prevent the creation of new, unauthorized accounts that4503may be used to replace cancelled accounts. Ticketmaster already blocks4504over 99 percent of the up to 25 million account sign-up attempts every4505day because our technologies determine these are not real fans, and we4506have stopped over 6 billion fake accounts so far this year. We will4507also be deploying AI tools on existing accounts, identifying those4508accounts most likely to be unauthorized accounts, requiring validation4509that the accounts are held by fans, and canceling those that are not4510validated. Yet it is, and always will be, a numbers game, with bad4511actors throwing billions of account creation requests at us figuring4512that if even a small fraction succeed, they can buy and scalp lots of4513tickets. With our new AI models and identity verification tools, we4514will make that harder.4515    6. Better Anti-Bot Measures: We are also improving our technologies4516against bots. Ticketmaster already blocks over 200 million bots daily,4517a five-fold increase from 2019. We continue to invest to improve our4518ability to block bots on Ticketmaster, and in addition we will be4519offering artists additional anti-bot tools for Artist Sign Ups for4520major onsales and post-onsale ticket sweeps. Together we expect these4521tools will increase the percentage of tickets going to real fans and4522enable faster assessment and cancellation of bot-purchased tickets.4523    Ultimately, Ticketmaster's commitment is to do what it takes to4524make sure that tickets meant for fans get to fans. That should not be4525as hard as it is--but it is every bit as hard as one should expect when4526ticket scalpers are making billions of dollars every year. Regardless,4527to protect fans, artists, and event organizers, Ticketmaster will4528continue to invest in abuse-prevention measures designed to detect and4529prevent scalpers and other bad actors from interfering with sales or4530acquiring tickets in violation of Ticketmaster's terms.4531                               * * * * *4532    Live Nation and Ticketmaster once again reiterate their commitment4533to supporting artists and fans while protecting the integrity of the4534live entertainment industry. We respectfully believe this litigation is4535misguided. Litigating this case will needlessly consume resources that4536should be directed toward our shared objective of addressing the4537problem of ticket scalping. Thus, while Live Nation and Ticketmaster4538will vigorously defend against these allegations, we remain committed4539to working with Congress and the FTC on real solutions as well.4540    As to the MAIN Event Ticketing Act, Live Nation and Ticketmaster4541support it but would go further. We appreciate the addition of a BOTS4542Act prohibition that covers the use of ticket buying software directly,4543but as noted earlier we would not tie this to ``circumvention of an4544access control system, security measure, or other technological control4545or measure.'' It ought to be illegal to use any software application4546that runs automated tasks over the Internet to purchase event tickets,4547period. There should not be any qualifiers on how the software4548automates ticket harvesting for live events.4549    We support, with some concerns, the proposal to require online4550ticket issuers to report to the FTC any incidents of circumvention of4551which the ticket issuer has actual knowledge. We have proactively4552shared information with the FTC about suspected ticket harvesting4553efforts on multiple occasions, but we have yet to see the FTC take4554action on any of our tips. But the larger issue is that attempted4555circumvention of technological controls is not an occasional,4556noteworthy event. It happens constantly and at enormous scale, and we4557are confident the FTC understands that. A reporting requirement is also4558problematic because it is in the nature of this arms race that the4559ticket company may know when it has won a battle by stopping a4560circumvention attempt, but probably not when it has failed. To4561illustrate, with the new technologies we have and the initiatives4562described above, we may cancel up to 10 million fake accounts (out of4563over 300 million accounts on the Ticketmaster Host system). It is very4564hard for us to believe that 10 million fake accounts were created4565without some kind of technological tool that, in our view, should be4566unlawful. Our data scientists can make educated guesses about how some4567of those accounts were created (e.g., using technology that creates4568fake e-mails). But when do inferences lead to the ``actual knowledge''4569that triggers the reporting requirement? This concerns us.4570    The obvious targets for BOTS Act enforcement actions are the4571purveyors of ticket harvesting technology and their customers. The FTC4572already knows who these people are. Furthermore, if the FTC genuinely4573believes that secondary marketplaces violate the BOTS Act by allowing4574brokers to post more tickets than the one-account ticket limit, all4575secondary marketplaces are targets for enforcement. In all events, we4576need more enforcement as opposed to simply more reporting.4577    We trust this letter answers your questions, and that the policy4578changes we are making demonstrates our commitment to real change.4579Please do not hesitate to contact us again should you have further4580questions.4581            Very truly yours,4582                                            Daniel M. Wall,4583                                          Executive Vice President,4584                                  Corporate and Regulatory Affairs,4585                                        Live Nation Entertainment, Inc.45864587    Senator Blackburn. And in it you said, and I am going to4588quote, ``given the level of abuse you are now seeing you will4589no longer permit brokers to use multiple accounts.''4590    So before now, you have allowed brokers to use multiple4591accounts?4592    Mr. Wall. Yes.4593    Senator Blackburn. This gets to what I was talking to Mr.4594Berry about--about verification of these accounts. So you have4595allowed them to use these multiple accounts, but then you also4596said in that letter that you were not turning a blind eye.4597    So were you all screwing up or were you lying?4598    Mr. Wall. Neither.4599    Senator Blackburn. Neither? OK.4600    Mr. Weingarden, what do you have to say about that?4601    Mr. Weingarden. Well, I mean, just a couple of things just4602from what has been said, and I just want to make clear that the4603TICKET Act as it is written does not outright ban spec4604ticketing.4605    Senator Blackburn. Right.4606    Mr. Weingarden. So that definitely does need to get updated4607or changed, and since we are all in agreement that would be4608great.4609    But the other piece is that--sorry, I lost my train of4610thought. What was the question again? I apologize.4611    Senator Blackburn. We were talking about he was saying4612that--we were talking about the brokers, scalpers----4613    Mr. Ritchie. Multiple accounts.4614    Senator Blackburn.--and the multiple----4615    Mr. Weingarden. Oh, yes.4616    Senator Blackburn.--accounts that the brokers had, and they4617had responded--we have the e-mail where one of the C Suites4618said that they just turned a blind eye. It was standard4619practice.4620    But in the response to Senator Lujan and I, they responded,4621``Given the level of abuse you are now seeing''--like it was4622just now beginning to happen--``you will no longer permit4623brokers to use multiple accounts.''4624    And you had referenced the ghost tickets, speculative4625tickets.4626    Mr. Weingarden. Right.4627    Senator Blackburn. So I was asking if you agreed with them?4628    Mr. Weingarden. I would definitely say that we experienced4629that quite a bit. In fact, when we are looking at different--4630trying to do some, like, scrubs to see how many scalpers are4631potentially hitting a particular show, sometimes they are even4632egregiously even utilizing the Boulder Theater's address as--4633and we will see 20 to 30 different----4634    Senator Blackburn. And then when you find one of these4635scalpers what do you do?4636    Mr. Weingarden. We try to cancel those orders and get rid4637of them because when you are seeing----4638    Senator Blackburn. Cancel the orders. And you do it4639before----4640    Mr. Weingarden.--when you are seeing 60--when you are4641seeing 60 different orders--not tickets, 60 different orders4642from the state of Indiana or something like that, come in for a4643show at the Fox Theater in Boulder on a particular night, we4644know that that is fraudulent activity.4645    Senator Blackburn. OK. Mr. Wall, I want to come back to you4646on this because I think it gets--why did you allow the abuse of4647the system for years? Before you said you were not turning a4648blind eye and before you said you were going to clean it up.4649    Mr. Wall. What we allowed was brokers to have multiple4650accounts, and that is because virtually all brokers have4651multiple accounts and always have.4652    Senator Blackburn. So you did not do verification if these4653were actual brokers or they were bots?4654    Mr. Wall. Oh, sure we did. Of course, we did.4655    Senator Blackburn. Well, you ended up with a whole lot of4656bots, and then you said you are blocking a lot of the bots. So,4657I mean, we have still got a difference.4658    Mr. Ritchie, you had a comment?4659    Mr. Ritchie. It is this simple. If I buy a ticket and I go4660to the show I am their worst customer. If they allow these4661multiple accounts to go on, that ticket resells and they make4662more money. Boom.4663    Senator Blackburn. Mr. Wall, I want to come back to you.4664    July of last year Ticketmaster filed a public comment in4665response to the DOJ and the FTC request for information on4666issues in the ticketing industry.4667    Now, in that public comment, you made some very interesting4668arguments. Not sure I agree with all of this, but you made some4669interesting arguments.4670    On page 11 of that comment you wrote that the BOTS Act, and4671I am quoting, ``implicitly obligates ticketing platforms not to4672turn a blind eye to patterns of behavior that indicate unlawful4673ticketing harvesting,'' end quote.4674    Mr. Wall. Yes.4675    Senator Blackburn. OK. Now, I agree with that. You should4676not turn a blind eye to that. This supports the fact that the4677BOTS Act holds companies like Ticketmaster liable for selling4678unlawfully purchased tickets.4679    Senator Moran and I wrote the BOTS Act, and the BOTS Act4680was never meant to be Section 230 for ticketing platforms. So4681why are you now taking the opposite position in ongoing4682litigation?4683    Mr. Wall. We are not. There must be a misunderstanding,4684because our interpretation of the BOTS Act is fundamentally the4685interpretation that you and Senator Lujan put forward in your4686amicus brief in the key investment group case.4687    Senator Blackburn. And we have another amicus brief coming4688on the second one.4689    OK. Do you have--Senator Hickenlooper, do you have any4690questions?4691    Senator Hickenlooper. I have myriad questions, but I will4692restrain myself.4693    I wanted to--Mr. Ritchie, I wanted to ask, in your4694experience--your direct experience--how much control does the4695artist have in what the final price for an artist--or a4696customer pays for that ticket relative to the add-ons?4697    Mr. Ritchie. The final price or setting the price of what4698we would like?4699    Senator Hickenlooper. The final price.4700    Mr. Ritchie. The final price, well, not much. That includes4701all the fees, the tacked on--how the buildings make their4702money, everyone this, that, and the other. There is--you know,4703they charge how much to print out a ticket at home, all these4704little stuff that makes no sense, like, that everyone is up in4705arms about.4706    We get a ton of say in what we want the tickets price to at4707because that is where we make our money, and we make the4708majority of that money, as I am sure Mr. Wall would be happy to4709tell you. That is true.4710    But at the end of the day, no, we do not have any over all4711those fees and everything that they tack on and all the stuff4712that people are really upset about.4713    You know, if I say tickets are $49, whatever, fans are4714usually, like, OK, that is great. You know, as artists, we want4715to treat our fans right. They know that.4716    But then when they get to the end and they check out they4717are, like, why is this thing $75?4718    Senator Hickenlooper. Right.4719    Mr. Ritchie. It was supposed to be $49. That is a huge4720problem.4721    Senator Hickenlooper. Right, and there is no way, when you4722are--you cannot restrict the contract. When you are signing a4723contract with that promoter, they are unwilling or unable to4724guarantee that they can, assuming--obviously, if we do a4725Federal law that----4726    Mr. Ritchie. I mean, this is why I said subpoena some of4727this stuff, because what I have heard people are getting4728kickbacks from this. Sometimes it is--it is the managers or the4729artists.4730    You know, there is a lot of people at fault here. You know,4731I cannot--I would like to put it all on Ticketmaster and take--4732they take the majority of these blows, no question, and Live4733Nation.4734    But there are a lot of people there with their hands in4735this cookie jar that it should not be in and that is why I hope4736you subpoena a lot of these contracts and look for some of this4737fraud because I bet there are some folks who go to jail.4738    Senator Hickenlooper. I am not going to judge anybody on4739that evidence.4740    You know, since last year the FTC's all-in pricing went4741into effect has that--have you guys seen a change in the market4742since that? And maybe each one of you can describe a little bit4743whether--what the change is.4744    And then also, if we made that a Federal law rather than4745just a rule would that make a difference? So that is the two4746questions. Have you seen a change and would it----4747    Mr. Ritchie. That is great. I think that is great for fans.4748Just more transparency so they are not--they do not get sticker4749shock when they go to checkout with all these hidden fees.4750    Senator Hickenlooper. OK.4751    Mr. Wall. It has been very important because contrary to4752what a lot of people believe, ticketing companies cannot decide4753how to--how to show these prices. It is the content owners who4754sort of dictate this and so you have a problem of getting4755everybody on board.4756    It is now--we have been pushing this for years--the system4757is working. Some people were saying that there could be a lot4758of problems. There have not been any problems. It turns out4759this works just fine.4760    Senator Hickenlooper. Right. And do you think there is a4761benefit to making a Federal law as opposed to just a FTC rule?4762    Mr. Wall. The only thing I would ask with that is the4763industry has adjusted to the FTC rule so try to be as4764consistent as possible. But otherwise, yes, absolutely.4765    Senator Hickenlooper. Taking what is working and just--4766thank you.4767    Senator Blackburn. Codifying. Yes, codifying.4768    Senator Hickenlooper. I yield to the more experienced4769person up here than myself.4770    Mr. Berry?4771    Mr. Berry. We absolutely support all-in total upfront4772pricing. We have been advocating for years and I want to thank4773the FTC for doing it, and I do agree it should be codified into4774statute.4775    Senator Hickenlooper. OK. Mr. Weingarden?4776    Mr. Weingarden. Yes, the--we have been working. We, meaning4777the National Independent Venue Association, has been a working4778nation--throughout the states and we have gotten a lot of4779states onboard for some time. And they have been--everybody, it4780has been great and I think a Federal law with that would be4781terrific.4782    Senator Hickenlooper. Right. I appreciate that. I do have4783more questions but I am going to just put them in written form4784for you all and let you go.4785    Senator Blackburn. Yes. We have had them here for a little4786while.4787    Mr. Berry, I do have one more for you.4788    What percentage of the tickets that are sold on your4789platform are from brokers?4790    Mr. Berry. I do not have a specific percentage, Senator.4791But I can tell you this, if you are a broker or if you are a4792nurse or if you are a season ticket holder, you are held to the4793same rules.4794    You have to deliver the tickets as they have been ordered.4795You will be penalized or thrown off platform if you are not.4796The marketplace has to keep both sides of the equation honest.4797    Senator Blackburn. I would like for you to submit for the4798record that number.4799    Mr. Berry. Absolutely.4800    Senator Blackburn. Mr. Weingarden, do you agree with that?4801    Mr. Weingarden. I 100 percent do not agree with that. I4802think that is very false, and we experience that--as I4803mentioned in my testimony, we experience that on a day-to-day4804basis and I guarantee you that all the 100 venues that I4805represent for the Colorado Independent Venue Association and4806elsewhere will say the same thing.4807    Senator Blackburn. Well, I want to draw this hearing to a4808close. You all have been gracious and you have been patient4809with our questions, and I am grateful for that.4810    Members of the Committee are going to have until February 44811to submit their questions for the record. As you have heard4812many say, they have got more questions so you are going to get4813questions for a response in writing. We will expect that4814response back from you by February 18 and would appreciate it.4815    As you can see, this is something people are--they have4816lost their patience with this price gouging and they want to4817see some consistency, transparency, and maybe even a little bit4818of equitable treatment for fans in this marketplace.4819    And at this point, I will conclude this hearing. As I say,4820thank you all for your time.4821    [Whereupon, at 4:23 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]48224823                            A P P E N D I X48244825    Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Jerry Moran to4826                                Dan Wall4827    Question 1. In 2016, I introduced the Better Online Ticket Sales--4828or ``BOTS''--Act, to end the practice of using ``ticket bots''--4829automated software that purchases event tickets online far quicker than4830a human could--monopolizing tickets for live events. My bill, which was4831signed into law nearly 10 years ago, makes evading guardrails--4832including through the use of ``bots''--that online ticket sellers have4833put in place to enforce ticket purchasing limits a violation of the4834Federal Trade Commission Act. Today, nearly a decade after enactment of4835the BOTS Act, the FTC has taken a renewed interest in enforcing its4836provisions, reflecting positive momentum toward a more competitive and4837fairer live event ticketing marketplace. What steps have Live Nation4838Entertainment and Ticketmaster taken to mitigate circumvention of anti-4839bot guardrails on Live Nation and Ticketmaster platforms? In your view,4840have these measures been effective in deterring the use of bots? What4841additional steps could be taken (either by Ticketmaster or other4842entities) to deter deployment of bots in the online ticketing industry?4843    Answer. Live Nation and Ticketmaster (collectively, ``we'') lead4844the live event industry in efforts to prevent the harvesting and4845scalping of event tickets at the expense of fans. Since 2010, we have4846invested more than $1 billion in ticketing technology, including anti-4847bot measures, fraud detection and ticket security. Ticketmaster has4848also prioritized hiring and retaining personnel with deep abuse4849prevention, engineering, and data science expertise drawn from a range4850of industries, including major technology companies. We have also4851repeatedly explained, including during the hearing, that the threat4852posed by scalpers, including from their use of increasingly4853sophisticated bots, continues to grow. This growth is driven by the4854significant financial incentives for scalpers to harvest tickets and4855resell them without restrictions on platforms that derive all or almost4856all of their revenue from the resale market. The escalation is4857reflected in the scale of automated attacks on our systems. For4858example, Ticketmaster blocked 566 million bots per day on average in4859the fourth quarter of 2025--an increase of over 3,600 percent from 20224860when Ticketmaster blocked 37 million bots per day. Further,4861Ticketmaster rejects 99.7 percent of the up to 25 million account sign-4862up attempts every day, based on technological determinations that these4863are not from real fans. These figures reflect both the sustained growth4864in abusive activity and a systematic, technology driven response4865designed to detect, block, and deter bad actors at scale.4866    Given these evolving threats, Ticketmaster has built a multi4867layered, lifecycle based defense system designed to deter scalpers and4868bots at every stage of the ticketing process, from network level4869attacks to resale activity. At the outermost layer, we block automated4870attacks at scale. The 3,600 percent increase of bots blocked per day4871since just 2022 reflects the growing financial incentives in the resale4872market and the corresponding escalation in bot activity. The next layer4873focuses on preventing fraudulent access to the marketplace where we4874reject, as previously noted, 99.7 percent of up to 25 million daily4875account sign up attempts. We also conduct ongoing sweeps of atypical4876activity and shut down high risk accounts, including 2.5 million such4877accounts in the last six months alone. During high demand onsales, we4878deploy structured access controls designed to prioritize trusted4879participation by fans and manage traffic at scale, including smart4880queue technology and artist directed distribution tools. In the4881instances where purchases made violate event terms, including purchase4882limits, we cancel those transactions to return tickets to inventory for4883fans. We also apply layered controls to the resale marketplace to limit4884large scale commercial reselling. Every seller is required to maintain4885a single account verified through tax identification, speculative4886listings are banned, and all resale tickets are authenticated before4887being listed. Taken together, these measures reflect a coordinated and4888technology driven strategy that targets abusive acquisition, fraudulent4889account creation, policy violations, and resale exploitation in a4890structured and continuous manner rather than through isolated controls.4891    We also address the threat of abuse by empowering artists to have4892more control of ticket resale on Ticketmaster's platform, including4893through the Face Value Exchange program. This service, available to any4894artist, limits the ability for tickets sold on Ticketmaster in the4895primary market to be resold on Ticketmaster for a value higher than4896what the first purchaser paid. We have seen this significantly reduce4897professional resale activity for artists that choose to use this4898service. While Face Value Exchange enables artists to control resale on4899Ticketmaster, it cannot stop resale on other platforms, where the4900majority of resale transactions occur. For this reason, we have4901advocated for legislation, including the MAIN Event Act, that would ban4902speculative ticketing, give artists full control over resale across4903platforms, and impose price caps on resale tickets to address the4904fundamental economic incentive for ticket harvesting and scalping. We4905have worked with a broad industry coalition to develop these proposals,4906which are described in more detail at Fairticketing.com.4907    Ticketmaster measures the effectiveness of its abuse prevention4908systems across several core indicators, including bot traffic blocked,4909fraudulent account creation prevented, and high risk accounts removed.4910On each of these metrics, we have seen both significant scale and4911continuous improvement. For example, as previously noted the number of4912bots blocked has increased by more than 3,600 percent between 2022 and49132025, reflecting both the growth in automated attacks and the expansion4914of our detection capabilities. These systems are designed to operate at4915scale and adapt as tactics evolve. At the same time, no large ecommerce4916platform can eliminate abuse entirely. The volume of bots we block4917underscores the reality that ticketing remains a high incentive target.4918As long as tickets can be resold at substantial markups on platforms4919that do not honor artist resale restrictions or pricing caps, bad4920actors will continue to invest in tools designed to bypass safeguards.4921Our approach is to continuously strengthen defenses across account4922creation, onsale access, order monitoring, and resale controls in order4923to reduce the success rate and profitability of that activity.4924    Problems such as bots and speculative ticketing persist because4925resale-centric platforms like StubHub, SeatGeek, and Vivid Seats allow4926brokers to resell tickets on average at twice the face value and earn a492725-40 percent commission from the buyer on each transaction. As long as4928these economic incentives exist, platforms like Ticketmaster will be4929under siege from new and improved scalper technology to exploit these4930opportunities. As we explained in our comment to President Trump's4931Executive Order on Combating Unfair Practices in the Live Entertainment4932Market, we are increasingly of the view that the only thing that will4933address this industry wide problem is legislative reform. Legislation4934that empowers artists and reforms resale markets to reduce or eliminate4935the economic incentives will be the best deterrence against the use of4936bots.4937    The most effective legislative measures would be to amend the BOTS4938Act so that it covers the broader range of ticket harvesting and4939scalping tactics. Indeed, we have proposed an amendment to the BOTS Act4940to prohibit bad actors ``to use or cause to be used any software4941application that runs automated tasks over the Internet to purchase4942event tickets from an Internet website or online ticket marketplace.''4943This would allow for BOTS Act claims against scalpers without showing a4944technological circumvention as the law currently requires. We also4945encourage Congress to pass legislation that codifies artist's rights to4946impose restrictions on resale and cap resale prices. This would help4947ensure that the ways Ticketmaster already tries to honor the4948preferences of artists are also consistently honored by all4949participants in the resale market.49504951    Question 2. The live event ticketing industry has seen an influx of4952newer entrants with unique offerings or services that seek to4953differentiate their platforms from competitors. As in every industry,4954it is incumbent upon the FTC to make certain that consumers seeking to4955benefit from the unique offerings of the plethora of ticket sellers are4956able to do so freely. Given your organization's role as a leader in the4957primary and secondary ticket sales markets, how do Live Nation and4958Ticketmaster view their responsibilities in stewarding this significant4959market share, particularly with respect to promoting competition and4960consumer protection?4961    Answer. Live Nation and Ticketmaster are continuously evolving and4962enhancing practices to keep up with the increasingly competitive4963ticketing marketplace.4964    We compete for venue clients who are free to choose among ticketing4965providers based on price, technology, service, and overall value. In4966today's competitive bidding environment, venue operators routinely4967solicit and evaluate multiple proposals, and contracts are awarded4968based on a range of factors. The most important of those factors is4969which platform can most effectively sell tickets for events. Venues and4970promoters depend on strong ticket sales to drive attendance, revenue,4971and the overall success of their events. That same capability directly4972benefits fans, because a platform that can manage high demand, scale4973securely, and convert interest into completed transactions ensures that4974more fans are able to successfully purchase tickets. Our continued4975investment in product development, security, and service reflects the4976reality that we must compete on performance and results, constantly4977improving our ability to help our partners sell tickets efficiently and4978reliably at scale.4979    Consumer protection is foundational to how we operate our4980marketplace. Our goal is to deliver a secure, transparent, and fair4981ticket buying experience, from the moment a fan joins an onsale to the4982moment they enter the venue.4983    To protect ticket integrity, we pioneered digital ticketing with4984rotating barcodes through SafeTix and have invested in evolving anti4985bot technology, fraud detection, and ticket security systems. To4986promote fair access during high demand onsales, we developed tools such4987as Verified Fan and smart queue technology to manage traffic at scale4988and prioritize trusted participation. To limit abusive resale, we built4989the artist controlled Face Value Exchange, banned speculative listings,4990and require sellers to maintain a single verified account tied to tax4991identification. And to ensure clarity for consumers, we support upfront4992pricing and clear disclosures so fans understand the full cost of a4993ticket before purchase.4994    Together, these efforts are designed to create a secure,4995transparent, and more equitable ticket buying experience for fans.4996                                 ______49974998  Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Marsha Blackburn to4999                                Dan Wall5000    Question 1. On July 7, 2025, you submitted a public comment in5001response to the Department of Justice and FTC's request for information5002on unfair and anticompetitive practices in live ticketing. On page 115003of that comment, you said the BOTS Act ``implicitly. . .obligates5004ticketing platforms not to turn a blind eye to patterns of behavior5005that indicate unlawful ticket harvesting.'' As I said in the hearing,5006this supports a reading of the BOTS Act that holds companies like5007Ticketmaster liable for selling unlawfully purchased tickets. I asked5008you why you are now taking the opposite position in the ongoing FTC5009litigation, and you indicated that you had not changed your position.5010Do you believe that Ticketmaster can be held accountable under the BOTS5011Act for turning a blind eye to patterns of behavior that indicate5012unlawful ticket harvesting as you argued on July 7, 2025, or do you5013stand by the position you now hold in the ongoing litigation?5014    Answer. Ticketmaster's position has been consistent for years: we5015have long advocated for vigorous enforcement of the BOTS Act, taken5016steps to prevent ticket purchase abuse, and shared information with the5017FTC to support BOTS Act enforcement. We believe all ticketing platforms5018should do the same. As you rightly explained in your recent amicus5019brief filed in the Key Investment Group litigation, the BOTS Act5020prohibits `` `circumvent[ion]' of ticket issuers' means of enforcing5021`posted event ticket purchasing limits' and `purchasing order rules.'5022'' This language does not expressly require ticket issuers to deploy5023specific bot-prevention measures, while at the same time, it is not5024Section 230 for the ticketing industry. Rather, the BOTS Act assumes5025ticket issuers will post ticket limits and deploy technical abuse5026prevention measures because without platform technological controls to5027prevent scalpers from exceeding posted ticket purchase limits, there5028can be no BOTS Act enforcement. In turn, Ticketmaster, as a ticket5029issuer, depends on others in the ticketing industry, particularly5030resale-focused platforms and brokers, to not facilitate or ignore5031efforts to harvest and scalp tickets. The arms race to prevent ticket5032scalping is challenging enough without sophisticated market5033participants emboldening and enabling scalpers to engage in abusive5034practices that hurt fans.5035    Ticketmaster is unquestionably doing its part to prevent abuse and5036facilitate BOTS Act enforcement. Ticketmaster systematically looks for5037indications of unlawful ticket harvesting and cancels tickets it5038concludes were purchased improperly. As set out in more detail in5039response to Senator Moran's questions above, Live Nation and5040Ticketmaster lead the industry in the development and deployment of5041abuse prevention measures to detect and prevent ticket harvesting and5042scalping, including SafeTix, smart queues, and artist controls such as5043Face Value Exchange. Given the ways that scalpers have continued to5044evolve their tactics, we have worked closely with you and other5045policymakers in Congress and the states to develop policy solutions,5046including amendments to the BOTS Act, and the MAIN Event Ticketing Act.5047We also have and will continue to work closely with Federal and state5048law enforcement and regulators to communicate the evolving threats5049posed by ticket harvesters and scalpers.5050    Unfortunately, we are far from confident that other market5051participants are doing their part to address these challenges. In fact,5052there is little evidence that other resale platforms make abuse5053prevention efforts comparable to Ticketmaster and abundant evidence5054that they do not. Companies that are resale-focused and derive the5055majority of their revenue from professional reselling are simply not5056financially incentivized to adopt prevention measures like those used5057by Ticketmaster or to work with Ticketmaster to identify and curb5058suspected abuse. We appreciate that you invited other participants in5059the ticketing industry to the hearing and hope that you also ask them5060how they can support BOTS Act enforcement. In turn, we hope these5061resale-focused organizations will respond by agreeing to closer5062cooperation with Congress and with ticket issuers, like Ticketmaster,5063to address the industrywide challenges of ticket harvesting and5064scalping. We look forward to continuing those efforts with your office.50655066    Question 2. I asked you about complaints I hear that Live Nation5067and Ticketmaster doesn't work with artists to give them more control5068over their shows. You argued that Ticketmaster is the only resale site5069to listen to artists' desires regarding their tickets. Please provide a5070list of artists who are able to control their ticket sales through your5071platform.5072    Answer. Every artist who sells tickets on Ticketmaster controls how5073their tickets are sold. Artists and their teams decide pricing, onsale5074timing, presales, ticket limits, and whether tickets can be transferred5075or resold. Ticketmaster provides the tools, artists and their teams5076choose how to use them.5077    Ticketmaster pioneered Face Value Exchange, an artist-enabled5078program that helps protect fans from excessive resale markups by5079allowing ticket holders who can't attend to resell their tickets at the5080original face value set by the artist, so tickets go back to real fans5081rather than scalpers.5082    The only limitation on artist control occurs in states such as New5083York, Illinois, Colorado, Connecticut, Virginia and Utah, where laws5084restrict the ability to limit ticket transfer, making it harder for5085artists to prevent predatory resale and price inflation. Outside of5086those states, artists can fully choose protections like restricted5087transfer and Face Value Exchange5088    Many artists across multiple genres have chosen to use these fan-5089protective tools on Ticketmaster, including major global tours, benefit5090concerts, and emerging artists.5091    Recent artists using Face Value Exchange or transfer controls5092include:50932026:5094 1.  Noah Kahan50955096 2.  Sweet Relief Musicians Fund50975098 3.  Kid Rock50995100 4.  Andrew McMahon51015102 5.  Tame Impala51035104 6.  Hilary Duff51055106 7.  Ethel Cain51072025:5108 1.  Sturgill Simpson51095110 2.  Beth Gibbons51115112 3.  Patti Smith51135114 4.  Tyler Childers51155116 5.  Neil Young51175118 6.  Hozier51195120 7.  Jack's Mannequin51215122 8.  Jonas Brothers (one-off)51235124 9.  Rufus Du Sol (benefit show)5125512610.  Blink 182 (benefit show)5127512811.  Billy Strings5129513012.  Ethel Cain5131513213.  Gracie Abrams (benefit show)5133513414.  The Saw Doctors5135513615.  Sleep Token5137513816.  Lisa (of BLACKPINK)5139514017.  Mumford & Sons (one-off)5141514218.  Janie's Fund5143514419.  Billie Eilish5145514620.  Max McNown5147514821.  Yusuf/Cat Stevens book tour5149515022.  Dermot Kennedy5151515223.  Daniel Caesar (Toronto Underplay)5153515424.  Fujii Kaze5155515625.  [SPIRITBOX]5157515826.  Colter Wall5159516027.  Kid Cudi5161516228.  Babymetal (Los Angeles underplay)5163516429.  Brandi Carlile (album listening party)5165516630.  Khruangbin5167516831.  Olivia Dean5169517032.  Hayley Williams5171517233.  Hilary Duff5173517434.  Pinkpanthress5175517635.  Ms. Lauryn Hill5177517836.  Freya Skye5179518037.  Gorillaz5181518238.  Foo Fighters5183518439.  Fred Again5185518640.  Louis Tomlinson5187518841.  Brandi Carlisle5189519042.  Khruangbin5191519243.  Noah Kahan51932024:5194 1.  Neil Young51955196 2.  Sleep Token51975198 3.  Robert Plant x Alison Krauss51995200 4.  Hozier52015202 5.  Cigarettes After Sex52035204 6.  Noah Kahan52055206 7.  Foo Fighters52075208 8.  Pearl Jam52095210 9.  Wilco5211521210.  PJ Harvey5213521411.  Ben Howard5215521612.  Indigo Girls x Amos Lee5217521813.  Luke Combs5219522014.  Norah Jones5221522215.  Something Corporate5223522416.  Billie Eilish5225522617.  Sturgill Simpson5227522818.  Fred again..5229523019.  Frank Black5231523220.  Tyler Childers5233523421.  Metallica (benefit show)5235523622.  Spiritbox5237523823.  Cage The Elephant5239524024.  Farm Aid5241524225.  Sweet Relief Benefit Concert52432023:5244 1.  Maggie Rogers52455246 2.  The Cure52475248 3.  Mitski52495250 4.  Foo Fighters52515252 5.  Tyler Childers52535254 6.  U252555256 7.  Hozier52575258 8.  Bleachers52595260 9.  Noah Kahan5261526210.  [Atlantis Venue Opening--Multiple Artists]5263526411.  Ben Howard5265526612.  Eddie Vedder5267526813.  Indigo Girls x Amos Lee5269527014.  Neil Young5271527215.  Pearl Jam5273527416.  Something Corporate5275527617.  Queen + Adam Lambert5277527818.  Jack White5279528019.  Oliver Anthony (used FVE but had transfer on, added FVE after tix5281        already onsale)5282528320.  Walmart Heroes & Headliners5284                                 ______52855286  Response to Written Question Submitted by Hon. John Hickenlooper to5287                                Dan Wall5288    FIFA 2026 World Cup. The FTC's Junk Fees Rule and the TICKET Act5289both mandate 'all-in pricing' to ensure fans aren't blindsided at5290checkout. However, recent reports indicate that for the 2026 World Cup,5291mandatory parking fees--a functional necessity for access--are being5292siloed into a separate, opaque structure. Reported parking fees of over5293$250 per parking pass may even exceed the cost to attend a 2026 World5294Cup match altogether.52955296    Question 1. For tickets sold to consumers for the upcoming FIFA52972026 World Cup, how will your platform ensure fans are not surprised by5298a separate, opaque fee structure for a necessity to access the venue5299where a World Cup match is held?5300    Answer. Ticketmaster is not the primary ticketing provider for the5301FIFA World Cup 2026, and we do not have visibility into how FIFA or its5302ticketing partners price tickets, parking, or other ancillary items for5303this event.5304    If and when FIFA World Cup tickets or FIFA-related event tickets5305are sold or resold on Ticketmaster, they will be subject to the same5306requirements that apply across our platform. Ticketmaster strictly5307complies with the FTC's Fees Rule and all applicable state laws5308governing all-in pricing. Our platform is designed to display the full5309price of any item sold through Ticketmaster upfront, so fans understand5310the total cost without unexpected charges added later.5311    We also want to note that Ticketmaster has not begun offering5312resale for this event because tickets have not yet been delivered and5313seat locations have not been confirmed. Until that occurs, listings5314appearing on other sites may be speculative and cannot guarantee5315access. We have been advising fans that the safest approach is to wait5316for official ticket delivery before making a purchase.5317                                 ______53185319    Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Jerry Moran to5320                              Brian Berry5321    Question 1. In 2016, I introduced the Better Online Ticket Sales--5322or ``BOTS''--Act, to end the practice of using ``ticket bots''--5323automated software that purchases event tickets online far quicker than5324a human could--monopolizing tickets for live events. My bill, which was5325signed into law nearly 10 years ago, makes evading guardrails--5326including through the use of ``bots''--that online ticket sellers have5327put in place to enforce ticket purchasing limits a violation of the5328Federal Trade Commission Act. Today, nearly a decade after enactment of5329the BOTS Act, the FTC has taken a renewed interest in enforcing its5330provisions, reflecting positive momentum toward a more competitive and5331fairer live event ticketing marketplace. How has the BOTS Act impacted5332the live event ticketing marketplace from the perspective of consumers?5333From the perspective of ticket sellers? In practice, how have the5334provisions of the BOTS Act impacted original sellers of tickets in the5335primary ticket market versus resellers of tickets in the secondary5336market?5337    Answer. We are pleased Congress passed the BOTS Act, and pleased5338that the FTC is investigating and suing several alleged violators,5339including Ticketmaster. The FTC should keep enforcing the BOTS Act, and5340we agree that the Act could benefit from updates to improve5341enforcement. Strong enforcement is essential to protecting fans and5342restoring trust in the ticket-buying experience.5343    From a consumer perspective, the BOTS Act establishes an important5344baseline: using automated software script to cut in line to buy tickets5345and bypass posted ticket purchase limits is illegal. That matters5346because humans should be competing for a fair shot at tickets on a5347level playing field. However, consumers may sometimes feel like the5348system is as complicated as ever and rigged against them when they are5349led to believe illegal bot users scooped up all the tickets.5350Importantly, illegal bots are not the sole source for ticket scarcity,5351as Live Nation has reported most of its events (98 percent) do not sell5352out and therefore tickets remain for purchase, regardless of bots, when5353the show begins. Further, Ticketmaster is known to hold back large5354swaths of tickets from the public on-sale and slowly drip new tickets5355for sale over time. When this happens, the so-called bot is actually5356Ticketmaster making tickets difficult to access, not illegal bot users.5357    Although legitimate resale marketplaces prohibit and penalize the5358use of illegally obtained tickets, including those purchased with5359illegal bots, it is impossible for resale marketplaces to know how5360resellers initially obtained tickets. Nevertheless, we're confident5361that the BOTS Act has helped deter less reputable actors, and recent5362enforcement actions send an important signal that violations carry real5363consequences.5364    In practice, the BOTS Act impacts only the primary ticket market5365because that is where illegal bot users use their banned software5366script to jump ahead of ticket buyers waiting in line and scoop up5367tickets before real humans can. Unfortunately for fans, and according5368to the FTC, the largest primary ticketing company, Ticketmaster, has5369turned a blind eye to bots. Secondary market resale marketplaces, on5370the other hand, do not operate virtual ticket queues or impose purchase5371limits. Our members' experience in hosting resale platforms is that the5372secondary resale market does not suffer bot attacks given they do not5373control the initial on-sale throttling of access to tickets. As a5374result, fans can list and purchase tickets at any time on any day and5375are not subjected to long queues or complicated on-sales. We believe5376that stronger, more frequent enforcement of the BOTS Act, will help5377stem the tide of bots.53785379    Question 2. In your view, and with the benefit of nearly a decade5380of hindsight, how should this Committee view its role in overseeing5381enforcement of the BOTS Act and providing the FTC and other Federal and5382state agencies with the authorities and resources needed to foster a5383competitive and fair live event ticketing marketplace?5384    Answer. Our member marketplaces serve tens of millions of happy5385fans every year, providing safe, guaranteed ticket transactions, real5386competition in pricing and service, and trusted options when it comes5387to buying and selling tickets. We are proud that our online5388marketplaces brought resale off street corners--where fraud and5389counterfeits were rampant--and into the world of transparent,5390protected, tax-paying e-commerce.5391    There is one thing nearly everyone agrees on: the entire live event5392ecosystem, including and especially the live event ticketing segment,5393should work better for fans. This is where the Committee can help to5394foster a competitive and fair live event ticketing market. Too often,5395for reasons that begin long before a ticket is put on sale, fans feel5396confused, frustrated, or shut out entirely. But access to tickets is5397just the result of a long chain of events, relationships, and industry5398power plays and distortions that have been the subject of deep5399investigation. Therefore, we caution the Subcommittee to avoid5400defaulting to convenient scapegoats rather than digging deeper into the5401facts.5402    Blaming ticket resale for the lion's share of problems in ticketing5403misses the mark. Significant fan harm originates at the source in the5404currently rigged system designed and dominated by a single, vertically5405integrated monopoly that maintains a powerful grip over artist5406management, event promotion, venue operations, and ticketing.5407    Problems in ticketing have been repeatedly studied over the last5408two decades by lawmakers (including on this Committee), industry,5409consumer advocates, and regulators. This process reached several5410important conclusions about how to improve the fan experience and, as a5411result:54125413  a.  The FTC now requires all-in, upfront pricing so fans are not5414        confused or misled about the price of tickets they are5415        purchasing. This is a big win for consumers and the consistency5416        required of both primary and secondary ticket sellers is5417        welcome by industry.54185419  b.  The Department of Justice has sued Live Nation/Ticketmaster5420        repeatedly, agreed to several consent decrees to change how5421        Live Nation/Ticketmaster operates, and soon an antitrust trial5422        will begin where the DOJ is joined by a bipartisan group of 405423        state attorneys general in a case that may result in the5424        breaking up of Live Nation and Ticketmaster. The Department of5425        Justice should stay on the case until the job is done.54265427  c.  Congress passed the BOTS Act, and the FTC is investigating and5428        suing several alleged violators, including Ticketmaster. The5429        FTC should keep enforcing the BOTS Act, and we agree that the5430        Act could benefit from updates to improve enforcement.54315432  d.  In part, thanks to this Committee's years of leadership, The5433        House of Representatives passed the overwhelmingly bipartisan5434        TICKET Act to address refund protection, deceptive websites,5435        and speculative ticket offers. We urge the Committee to push5436        the Senate to send the TICKET Act to the President's desk. That5437        would be a monumentally important accomplishment.54385439    The TICKET Act will not safeguard against the foreclosure of5440competition in ticketing, but it will provide important and meaningful5441new consumer protections.5442    I should also note that enactment of the TICKET Act will require5443significant investment and change across the industry, including from5444our member companies. We accept that because it will improve the market5445in a way that benefits fans.5446    As mentioned, our platforms support stronger fan protections that5447include more transparency, less deception, and more enforcement against5448fraud and abuse. What we do not support are policies that foreclose5449competition, restrict legitimate resale, eliminate consumer choice, and5450further entrench monopolistic control under the false banner of reform.54515452    Question 3. Existing laws that seek to police unfair, deceptive,5453and anticompetitive practices in the live event ticketing industry--5454including the BOTS Act--provide for a certain threshold of interagency5455and intergovernmental coordination. The BOTS Act, for example, provides5456for enforcement by the FTC and coordination with state attorneys5457general, who may bring civil action in Federal court on the basis of5458the BOTS Act, in consultation with the FTC. In practice--and in other5459legislative proposals--enforcement and coordination include the5460Department of Justice and other relevant state and local law5461enforcement agencies. What are the advantages of the interagency and5462intergovernmental coordination provided for by the BOTS Act and Federal5463regulations and guidance promulgated since its enactment to preventing5464unfair and deceptive conduct in the live event ticketing marketplace?5465Have you or your members observed obstacles to this sort of5466coordination and collaboration? Do you feel that consumers and industry5467have sufficient opportunities to weigh in, where needed?5468    Answer. It has been our members' experience that consumers and5469industry have sufficient opportunities to weigh in with relevant5470authorities and policy makers where and as needed, including by5471providing lawmaker offices with information, contacting Federal and/or5472state agencies, etc.5473    We believe there are strong advantages with interagency and5474intergovernmental coordination on ticketing-related matters, in5475particular with respect to the prevention of unfair and deceptive5476conduct as for the enforcement of laws and rules such as the Federal5477BOTS Act.5478    The BOTS Act created a meaningful enforcement framework but that5479implementation gaps remain. We believe the Act should be enforced5480rigorously, and that primary ticketing platforms (not just those that5481enjoy the size and resources of Ticketmaster) should be able to5482innovate and work with enforcement agencies as partners in the5483investigation and prosecution of purveyors and users of illegal bots.5484Our member companies seek an enforcement environment in which cutting-5485edge technologies can be unleashed and the eradication of bots achieved5486via technological innovation and deepened partnership with enforcement5487authorities.54885489    Question 4. The live event ticketing industry has seen an influx of5490newer entrants with unique offerings or services that seek to5491differentiate their platforms from competitors. As in every industry,5492it is incumbent upon the FTC to make certain that consumers seeking to5493benefit from the unique offerings of the plethora of ticket sellers are5494able to do so freely. Does the FTC have the authorities and resources5495required to support a competitive live event ticketing ecosystem? What5496should this Committee, the FTC, and other public and private5497stakeholders do to cultivate competition in the ticket sale and resale5498marketplace?5499    Answer. Free markets and fierce competition--not consolidation--is5500what ultimately lowers costs, drives innovation, and improves the fan5501experience. Some members of the Ticket Policy Forum are seeking to5502challenge the status quo in live event ticketing by working directly5503with teams, venues, and promoters to give fans better access, better5504technology, more choices and superior user experiences. But real5505progress has been tough. As I testified on January 28th, the dominant5506industry player controls around 80 percent or more of major concert5507venue ticketing and, as the Justice Department antitrust complaint5508details, illegally acts to limit fair competition.5509    Therefore, our recommendation is that this Committee not risk5510inadvertently tipping the scales of competition further in favor of the5511dominant monopolist. Instead, we recommend policies and rules that5512strengthen consumer protections in an equitable manner similar to how5513the FTC's recent all-in price transparency rules applies to all ticket5514sellers (and not just resale platforms).5515    With respect to policies that will both not harm competition yet5516help consumers, the Committee should again focus on the TICKET Act. The5517TICKET Act addresses refund protection, deceptive websites, and5518speculative ticket offers. We urge the Committee to push the Senate to5519send the TICKET Act to the President's desk.5520    Finally, the Department of Justice has sued Live Nation/5521Ticketmaster and will hopefully soon commence an antitrust trial where5522the DOJ, joined by a bipartisan group of 40 state attorneys general5523will potentially seek far reaching remedies. The Department of Justice5524should stay on the case until the job is done. A break up of Live5525Nation and Ticketmaster could remove critical structural and behavioral5526distortions in ticketing that have resulted in a vertically integrated5527monopolist that bullies and harms artists, venues, fans, and competing5528ticketing companies.5529                                 ______55305531  Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Marsha Blackburn to5532                              Brian Berry5533    Question 1. Brokers are very prevalent sellers on resale platforms,5534and they often markup those tickets at outrageous rates. It is5535important to understand how prevalent brokers are on your members'5536platforms and how important they are to their business models. Please5537provide the percentage of tickets on each of the following platforms5538that are listed by brokers.5539    Answer. TPF does not have visibility into the identity of sellers5540or the percentage of tickets sold by any particular category of seller5541on member marketplaces and therefore cannot provide that figure.5542    Importantly, our member marketplaces apply the same rules and5543standards to all sellers whether a professional reseller, season ticket5544holder, venue, promoter, team, or an individual fan. All sellers are5545subject to the same requirements regarding lawful acquisition, ticket5546delivery, and marketplace conduct.5547    It is also important to not presume tickets offered to highly5548popular events are only offered by professional sellers. For example,5549one member (StubHub) publicly commented that for Taylor Swift's 20235550North American Eras Tour, more than 80 percent of ticket sellers were5551first-time sellers. While some of these first-time sellers could have5552been first-time professional sellers, being new to StubHub's5553marketplace suggests to us that they were likely fan ticketholders5554looking to sell their tickets at a price of their choosing on a5555platform that they trust to be safe and secure.5556    Marketplace integrity is rooted in accountability on both sides of5557the transaction. Sellers must deliver valid tickets as promised or face5558financial penalties and removal from the platform.5559    Buyers must transact through secure accounts and payment systems.5560These platforms back transactions with fan guarantees, refund5561protections, ticket verification, and replacement options when5562available. Seller and buyer identities are kept confidential to protect5563user safety and reduce fraud risks associated with off-platform5564transactions.5565    It is unfortunate that some try to mislead lawmakers and others5566about professional ticket sellers, creating a false narrative that they5567do not play a valuable role in the industry and ecosystem or painting a5568simplistic picture of bad guys versus good guys. Professional ticket5569sellers are longstanding participants in the live events ecosystem and5570should not be presumed to be unlawful actors. Like any industry, there5571are bad actors, but the vast majority of professional sellers operate5572lawfully and depend on maintaining trust to sustain their businesses.5573In many cases, they enter into legitimate business arrangements with5574venues, teams, producers, and promoters, purchasing and assuming ticket5575inventory and financial risk well before events occur. This risk5576transfer can help stabilize revenue for event organizers and provide5577liquidity in markets with fluctuating demand. To put it simply, these5578industry participants are early investors in helping live events5579succeed and leave no seat empty.5580    TPF supports strong enforcement against unlawful conduct, including5581violations of the BOTS Act. The focus should remain on those who break5582the law, not on lawful participants in the resale marketplace.5583    At their core, our member platforms provide secure, transparent5584marketplaces that expand consumer choice, flexibility, and access when5585primary market inventory is limited or unavailable.55865587    Question 2. Resale platforms clearly have a responsibility here.5588Fans and artists alike want to know that your platforms take the issue5589of bad actors listing tickets on your platforms seriously. What5590measures do your members have in place to identify and hold accountable5591bad actors that list tickets on their platforms?5592    Answer. Based on what TPF knows, all sellers on marketplaces are5593held to the same high standard of professional conduct expected of5594those who offer tickets for sale to consumers.5595    Marketplaces operate such that both sides of the seller and buyer5596equation are held accountable. The seller of tickets must deliver5597legitimate tickets as listed and promised and by the specified delivery5598date. The buyer must create an account with the platform and use a5599secure form of payment (credit card) and be prepared to handle the5600delivery of the tickets when they are transferred. Accountability and5601trust on our platforms is evidenced by the fact that tens of millions5602of happy fans buy their tickets each year on our member marketplaces.5603This accountability and trust is rooted in the 100 percent fan5604guarantees and refund protection that the marketplaces provide, along5605with ticket verification and fulfillment services, a comparable5606replacement ticket option when available should something go wrong, and5607the ability for marketplaces to financially penalize sellers for not5608delivering as required and even kicking them off platform entirely.5609    With tens of millions of successful ticket sales each year on our5610member company marketplaces, we do not believe we suffer from a ``bad5611actor'' problem but a ``bad actor'' worth the Committee's time and5612attention is Live Nation/Ticketmaster. The company could provide the5613ecosystem with ticket verification such that every legitimate ticket5614sold by our marketplaces has irrefutable assurance that it will scan5615for entry. As a result of anticompetitive and harmful exclusionary5616conduct, however, some states have passed laws that make it illegal for5617venues to deny entry to a fan on the basis that their ticket was5618resold. In its amended complaint in the U.S. versus Live Nation/5619Ticketmaster monopoly case, the DOJ includes detail how Ticketmaster5620uses technology it markets for anti-fraud and counterfeits (called5621SafeTix with revolving barcodes and QR codes) to intentionally deny5622entry to ticketholders who purchased their tickets from a competing non5623Ticketmaster ticketing company. This is a prime example of a bad actor5624behaving in bad ways.5625    Ultimately, our members' success depends on trust. That trust is5626built through strong guarantees, meaningful penalties, and decisive5627action against bad actors--so that fans can focus on enjoying the5628event, not worrying about whether their ticket will work.56295630    Question 3. Consumer confidence in resale platforms, and the5631ticketing industry generally, is at an all time low. The BOTS Act was5632not meant to shield platforms from accountability. It was never meant5633to be section 230 for ticketing platforms. What do you believe your5634members' obligations are under the BOTS Act, and are you confident5635they're adhering to those obligations?5636    Answer. There are agenda-driven industry participants that would5637like to assert confidence in resale platforms is low, when it is not.5638In fact our marketplace member companies made ``sold out'' and5639``streetcorner ticket scalping'' relics of the past. Respectfully,5640confidence and satisfaction on our platforms is evidenced by the fact5641that tens of millions of happy fans buy their tickets each year on our5642member marketplaces. We are proud to successfully serve so many fans5643each year in getting them into the live events they love.5644    As for the BOTS Act, it was designed to deter the illegal5645circumvention of ticket purchase limits at the point of initial sale5646and specifically at the time of its passage, much of the discussion5647circled around software script that could ``cut in line'' and allow5648someone to jump ahead of those waiting to buy tickets and then be able5649to scoop up large swaths of tickets in one fell swoop leaving no5650tickets available for those waiting in line. The BOTS Act was not5651intended to insulate any platform from responsibility, and resale5652platforms should not be shielded from accountability.5653    Our members recognize that obligation.5654    Under the law, it is illegal to use automated software to bypass5655primary ticket seller safeguards. While resale marketplaces are not the5656targets of bot attacks in the same way primary sellers are, our members5657have clear responsibilities:56585659  1.  Prohibit the listing of illegally obtained tickets.5660     Sellers must attest that tickets listed were obtained lawfully and5661        in compliance with applicable laws.56625663  2.  Enforce platform policies against misuse.5664     If there is evidence that tickets were acquired through unlawful5665        bot activity, our members investigate and take action,5666        including cancellation of listings, financial penalties, and5667        removal from the platform.56685669  3.  Cooperate with enforcement authorities.5670     Our members support FTC and state enforcement efforts and5671        encourage stronger, more consistent enforcement of bot laws.56725673    That said, the ticketing ecosystem presents a structural challenge:5674resale platforms do not control or operate the primary point of sale,5675where bot activity occurs. Without interoperability or transparent5676reporting from primary ticketing systems, there is no independent5677mechanism for a resale marketplace to definitively determine whether a5678particular ticket was purchased by a human or a bot.5679    Primary sellers are the entities that:56805681   Operate the queue systems,56825683   Set ticket limits,56845685   Detect bot intrusions,56865687   Cancel bot-procured tickets.56885689    Resale platforms do not have visibility into those internal5690systems.5691    This is precisely why stronger enforcement and greater transparency5692at the primary level are critical. If large primary ticketing platforms5693were required to report confirmed bot breaches and share relevant5694ticket identifiers with enforcement agencies, the entire ecosystem,5695including resale marketplaces, would be better positioned to prevent5696unlawful resale.5697                                 ______56985699  Response to Written Question Submitted by Hon. John Hickenlooper to5700                              Brian Berry5701    FIFA 2026 World Cup. The FTC's Junk Fees Rule and the TICKET Act5702both mandate 'all-in pricing' to ensure fans aren't blindsided at5703checkout. However, recent reports indicate that for the 2026 World Cup,5704mandatory parking fees--a functional necessity for access--are being5705siloed into a separate, opaque structure. Reported parking fees of over5706$250 per parking pass may even exceed the cost to attend a 2026 World5707Cup match altogether.57085709    Question 1. For tickets sold to consumers for the upcoming FIFA57102026 World Cup, how will your platform ensure fans are not surprised by5711a separate, opaque fee structure for a necessity to access the venue5712where a World Cup match is held?5713    Answer. Our marketplaces offer for sale what the ticketholder/5714seller purchased--whether that is a ticket for entry and nothing else,5715or if that ticket includes ancillary services such as parking. So, if a5716seller has a FIFA ticket with parking, that is what is sold. If a5717seller only has a parking pass and is selling that, then that is what5718they can sell. What our customers can expect is a transparent,5719protected ticket buying experience for the World Cup.5720    I cannot speak to how FIFA is choosing to list parking passes or5721other ancillary purchases aside from the tickets themselves, but for5722listings on our members' platforms that are for parking passes, they5723comply with all Federal rules and state and local laws regarding price5724listings, including the FTC Junk Fee Rule. If improprieties are5725reported to any of our marketplace member companies, they have staff5726who investigate complaints and work to resolve them. So, for example if5727a ticket that came with parking is split into two and that is reported5728to the marketplace, it is easier for the marketplace to contact the5729seller to remedy the situation.5730                                 ______57315732     Response to Written Question Submitted by Hon. Jerry Moran to5733                            David Weingarden5734    Question 1. Existing laws that seek to police unfair, deceptive,5735and anticompetitive practices in the live event ticketing industry--5736including the BOTS Act--provide for a certain threshold of interagency5737and intergovernmental coordination. The BOTS Act, for example, provides5738for enforcement by the FTC and coordination with state attorneys5739general, who may bring civil action in Federal court on the basis of5740the BOTS Act, in consultation with the FTC. In practice--and in other5741legislative proposals--enforcement and coordination include the5742Department of Justice and other relevant state and local law5743enforcement agencies. How do independent venues such as those5744represented by your association support a competitive and fair live5745event ticketing ecosystem?5746    Answer. Independent venues support a competitive and fair live5747event ticketing ecosystem by prioritizing fan access, transparent5748pricing, and accountability across the marketplace.5749    The BOTS Act was an important first step in outlawing the software5750used by scalpers to hoard tickets and establishing a framework for5751enforcement by the FTC and State Attorneys General. However, in the5752nine years since its passage, there has been only one significant5753Federal enforcement action despite the rampant bot activity our venues5754face daily. For an independent promoter, even if enforced, the BOTS Act5755is a reactive tool. It addresses illegal activity after a show, which5756does nothing to help the fans who were priced out at onsale or the5757venue that lost night-of revenue to bots and scalpers.5758    To meaningfully deter bots and restore fairness, two structural5759reforms are necessary.5760    First, ticketing companies should be required to disclose when5761circumvention has occurred on their platforms. If a primary ticketing5762platform detects that security measures were bypassed during an onsale,5763that information should be transparently reported and shared with5764enforcement agencies. Transparency is critical to accountability.5765Without mandatory disclosure, regulators and the public lack the5766visibility into the true scope of bot activity. And it is widespread.5767The MAIN Event Ticketing Act provides a strong model in this regard and5768we support it moving forward.5769    Second, Congress and states should adopt resale price caps. Bots5770exist because there is extraordinary financial incentive to resell5771tickets in the secondary market. When tickets can be resold at5772unlimited markups, automated software becomes a highly profitable5773business model. If reasonable 10 percent resale price caps are5774implemented, scalpers are disincentivized from employing bots in the5775first place. We've heard this anecdotally from the venues in states5776that have already passed resale price caps.5777    Independent venues like mine also support strong enforcement5778against anticompetitive conduct in the live entertainment marketplace5779and want the Live Nation antitrust case to continue in entirety. A5780competitive ecosystem requires that dominant firms are held accountable5781under existing antitrust law. Allowing consolidation or negotiated5782settlements that fail to restore competition undermines independent5783operators and limits real choice for artists and fans.5784    While we support the goals of Federal reform efforts, proposals5785must also avoid creating new loopholes. For example, allowing resellers5786to rebrand speculative listings as a ``concierge'' or ``procurement''5787service, like in the current version of the TICKET Act, would5788effectively legitimize the sale of tickets that do not yet exist and5789undermine all the work independent venues are doing across the country5790to protect our fans and businesses. Passing the TICKET Act would weaken5791consumer protection and enshrine the very predatory practices reform is5792intended to eliminate.5793    In the absence of sufficient Federal enforcement, independent5794venues take real-time protective action. We manually scrub sales data,5795cancel suspicious orders, limit ticket quantities, and implement5796delayed delivery to safeguard inventory. But this places us in a5797constant arms race. Without clear Federal standards that eliminate5798speculative ticketing--advertising and selling tickets the scalper5799doesn't actually have--mandate disclosure of security circumvention,5800impose reasonable 10 percent resale price limits, and hold secondary5801platforms accountable for the inventory they profit from, independent5802venues will continue to shoulder the burden alone.5803    A competitive and fair ticketing ecosystem depends not only on laws5804on the books, but on meaningful enforcement, structural deterrence, and5805closing loopholes that allow predatory ticketing practices to persist.58065807                                  [all]