Hearings to examine S.465, to require the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission to reform the interconnection queue process for the prioritization and approval of certain projects, S.1327, to require the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission to establish a shared savings incentive to return a portion of the savings attributable to an investment in grid-enhancing technology to the developer of that grid-enhancing technology, S.3034, to amend the Federal Power Act to require the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission to review regulations that may affect the reliable operation of the bulk-power system, S.3192, to require Transmission Organizations to allow aggregators of retail customers to submit to organized wholesale electric markets bids that aggregate demand flexibility of customers of certain utilities, S.3269, to direct the Comptroller General of the United States to conduct a technology assessment focused on liquid cooling systems for artificial intelligence compute clusters and high-performance computing facilities, S.3947, to amend the Federal Power Act to establish a categorical exclusion for reconductoring within existing rights-of-way.

1[Senate Hearing 119-366]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                                                       S. Hrg. 119-36656                          PENDING LEGISLATION7=======================================================================89                                HEARING1011                               BEFORE THE1213                         SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENERGY1415                                 OF THE1617                              COMMITTEE ON18                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES19                          UNITED STATES SENATE2021                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2223                             SECOND SESSION2425                                   on2627                                S. 46528                                S. 132729                                S. 303430                                S. 319231                                S. 326932                                S. 39473334                               __________3536                             APRIL 15, 20263738                               __________3940                       Printed for the use of the41               Committee on Energy and Natural Resources4243[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]4445        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov4647                                __________4849                      U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE5063-445                       WASHINGTON : 202651=======================================================================5253               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES5455                        MIKE LEE, Utah, Chairman56JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico57JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon58STEVE DAINES, Montana                MARIA CANTWELL, Washington59TOM COTTON, Arkansas                 MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii60DAVID McCORMICK, Pennsylvania        ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine61JAMES C. JUSTICE, West Virginia      CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada62BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado63CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        ALEX PADILLA, California64LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska               RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona65JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota66                                 ------6768                         Subcommittee on Energy6970                         DAVID McCORMICK, Chair7172JOHN BARRASSO                        RUBEN GALLEGO73JAMES E. RISCH                       RON WYDEN74TOM COTTON                           MAZIE K. HIRONO75JAMES C. JUSTICE                     ANGUS S. KING, JR.76BILL CASSIDY                         CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO77CINDY HYDE-SMITH                     JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER78JOHN HOEVEN                          ALEX PADILLA7980                  Wendy Baig, Majority Staff Director81    Chris Prandoni, Majority Deputy Staff Director and Chief Counsel82           Jake McCurdy, Majority Policy Director for Energy83                 Jasmine Hunt, Minority Staff Director84                 Sam E. Fowler, Minority Chief Counsel85              Anais Borja, Minority Energy Policy Director8687                           C O N T E N T S8889                              ----------9091                           OPENING STATEMENTS9293                                                                   Page94McCormick, Hon. David, Subcommittee Chair and a U.S. Senator from95  Pennsylvania...................................................     196Gallego, Hon. Ruben, Subcommittee Ranking Member and U.S. Senator97  from Arizona...................................................     298Welch, Hon. Peter, a U.S. Senator from Vermont...................     499100                               WITNESSES101102Morenoff, David L., Deputy General Counsel, Federal Energy103  Regulatory Commission..........................................     4104Ayoub, Kal, Director, Office of Electric Reliability, Federal105  Energy Regulatory Commission...................................     9106107          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED108109Ayoub, Kal:110    Opening Statement............................................     9111    Written Testimony............................................    11112    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    26113Digital Power Network:114    Letter for the Record........................................    30115Gallego, Hon. Ruben:116    Opening Statement............................................     2117King, Jr., Hon. Angus S.:118    Photograph of a carbon fiber-based conductor next to a119      conventional high-tension conductor........................    15120McCormick, Hon. David:121    Opening Statement............................................     1122Morenoff, David L.:123    Opening Statement............................................     4124    Written Testimony............................................     7125    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    24126Welch, Hon. Peter:127    Opening Statement............................................     4128129----------130The text for each of the bills addressed in this hearing can be found131on the Committee's website at: https://www.energy.senate.gov/hearings/1322026/4/subcommittee-on-energy-to-receive-testimony-on-pending-133legislation134135                          PENDING LEGISLATION136137                              ----------138139                       WEDNESDAY, APRIL 15, 2026140141                               U.S. Senate,142                            Subcommittee on Energy,143                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,144                                                    Washington, DC.145    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:30 p.m. in146Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. David147McCormick, Chair of the Subcommittee, presiding.148149          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DAVID MCCORMICK,150                 U.S. SENATOR FROM PENNSYLVANIA151152    Senator McCormick. The Subcommittee will come to order.153Thank you all for being here. Thank you to my fellow Senators.154This is our first Energy Subcommittee hearing of this Congress,155and I would like to thank Senator Gallego for helping me put156this together. He will be here momentarily. And for other157members who are here today who have introduced legislation, the158focus of this hearing is on pending legislation. We have two159expert witnesses from FERC. Thank you, gentlemen, for being160here, and we look forward to being able to ask you some161questions.162    I just want to say in advance, in the event that there is163any outburst or disruption, I am going to stop the hearing and164ask for those folks to be removed--we have Capitol Police165here--and allow us to continue on to the business of the day,166but that may take a minute, if that occurs.167    Today's hearing is focused on improving our nation's grid168to ensure the energy we are producing, but also delivering169electricity to end users in the most efficient and affordable170way possible. And today, we are in the midst of something171really extraordinary--this AI revolution and the172reindustrialization that goes hand-in-hand. These two forces173are driving a projected 25 percent increase in demand for174electricity by 2030, which really is antithetical to the kind175of affordability and opportunity for Americans that we want.176That's why I view AI and energy as two sides of the same coin.177They go hand-in-hand in today's world. And in this global AI178race, we really have two choices--either we win and lead, or we179follow. And in order to help win the AI race against China, our180primary adversary, we need energy to power this new technology,181to power the necessary compute. Today, speed-to-power is the182name of the game.183    In my home State of Pennsylvania, the energy we are184producing is critical to protecting and advancing U.S. economic185and national security. And Pennsylvania is the nation's second-186largest producer of natural gas, we are the third largest187electricity producer in the country, and the second largest188producer of nuclear power. Pennsylvania is providing not only189the power for new manufacturing and electricity generation, but190also for well-paying, family-sustaining jobs, which are191obviously so critical. Pennsylvania is also at the cutting edge192of a radical transformation. We saw this last year at the193Energy and Innovation Summit that I hosted in Pittsburgh, where194$92 billion of investment in new data centers and energy and195power was pledged by the CEOs around the table. At the time,196many of them public companies making these commitments, very197significant and very certain. But we know that we need to get198these electrons from their generation source to their end199users. And we know that Pennsylvanians should not see higher200power bills because of data centers or other large-load201projects.202    The bills we will examine today look to address speed-to-203power challenges, including unlocking more capacity from our204existing grid and avoiding long lead times. I am proud to have205authored two of the bills we will consider today. There will be206others, of course. The first is the Liquid Cooling for AI Act,207which I introduced with Senator Chris Coons. This legislation208is designed to help ensure American AI infrastructure is the209most efficient, resilient, secure, and advanced in the world.210    There he is. Senator Gallego, how are you?211    I said great words and words of gratitude for you putting212this together.213    Senator Gallego. Of course.214    [Laughter.]215    Senator McCormick. Liquid Cooling technology can better216accommodate advanced chips and AI infrastructure, like data217centers, while better managing energy consumption and strain on218utilities.219    The second bill is the Reconductoring Existing Wires for220Infrastructure Reliability and Expansion Act. That's a221mouthful, but it's important. It's something I introduced with222Senator Welch, who I think is here as well. There he is, yes.223We look forward to hearing from him in a minute. This bill will224cut permitting delays and accelerate the deployment of225innovative grid technologies through reconductoring.226    Both of these bills are meaningful steps forward in227reducing permitting delays and helping us to win the AI race,228but there is still so much work to be done. With that, I look229forward to hearing from our witnesses today. But first, I would230like to turn to Ranking Member Gallego for his opening231statement.232233           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RUBEN GALLEGO,234                   U.S. SENATOR FROM ARIZONA235236    Senator Gallego. Thank you, Chair McCormick, for holding237today's hearing. We are here today to consider a handful of238bills dealing with our energy system, a system that is seeing a239lot of significant pressure.240    Energy demand is rising faster than we have seen in241decades, and it is not slowing down any time soon. The U.S. is242projected to see a 25 percent increase in electricity demand by2432030, driven by the growth of data centers, manufacturing244reshoring, and building transportation electrification. In some245ways, these are good problems to have because they are signs of246a growing economy. They are also challenges we have to get247right. At the same time that we have seen increased demand,248energy is becoming more and more unaffordable. Energy prices249rose twice as fast as overall inflation last year, and one in250three Americans reported cutting back on food or medicine to251cover their utility bills.252    To make matters worse, gas prices have skyrocketed all over253the country because of Trump's war in Iran. As demand continues254to rise, so will costs. If we want to meet this demand without255making costs even worse, we need to build more and become more256efficient. We need permitting reform to build new lines and257increase energy production and generation. And as generation258increases, our transmission systems will need to be ready to259move energy from where it is generated to where it will be used260because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how many261electrons we produce--if we can't get them where they need to262go, it makes zero difference.263    Right now, our grid system is not going to meet those264demands. According to the DOE, 70 percent of U.S. transmission265lines are over 25 years old, which is more than halfway through266their operational life spans, and 55 percent of transformers267are much older than that. Studies estimate that the national268transmission system will need to at least double in size by2692050 in order to maintain reliability and keep costs low. One270study found that in 2023, insufficient capacity on the grid271cost customers $11.5 billion. The grid we have is simply not272the grid we need.273    This isn't just about cost, it's also a public safety274issue. An outdated and strained grid makes us more vulnerable275to widespread blackouts, and in hot weather states like276Arizona--you guys may have heard, it gets hot there once in a277while--a blackout in 115-degree weather is a matter of life and278death for thousands of people. That's why, when I released an279energy plan last year outlining how we can make energy more280feasible, affordable, and reliable for Americans, I made281transmission a key pillar because a reliable grid is impossible282unless we get energy where it needs to go quickly and when it283is needed.284    All this to say there is strong consensus, among the285challenges we face, that what we are here to do today is to286work on solutions that are feasible, productive, and effective287in growing our grid and meeting demand significantly. There are288some strong bills in today's markup to do that. One that I will289be proud to support is the Chairman's Liquid Cooling for AI290Act, which would make sure we have cooling systems capable of291supporting the advanced chips manufacturing production, which292is a big deal in Arizona, in a way that won't drive up costs293for consumers. Another promising bill is the Advancing GETs294Act, which would incentivize developers to bring new grid295efficiency tools online and increase our transmission capacity.296    There are other bills that I have questions about how they297will be implemented, which I will get to during questioning.298And that tells me what our goal is here today--figuring out how299to move forward and ensure that the best ideas are being put300forward and pressure-tested by experts, so that when Congress301has the opportunity to act, we are ready to do so. Thank you,302and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.303    Senator McCormick. Thank you, Senator Gallego.304    I see Senator Welch is here, which is great, to speak on305one of his bills which we are considering today. So, I turn to306the great Senator from Vermont.307308            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. PETER WELCH,309                   U.S. SENATOR FROM VERMONT310311    Senator Welch. Well, thank you very much, and I am going to312violate protocol here by saying something nice about the313Chairman. It's terrific to work with you on this. And here is314the serious thing, it's not just the term bipartisan, but the315reality is, and this is what Senator McCormick and I realized--316you are getting significantly higher rates in Pennsylvania. We317are getting higher rates in Vermont. And a lot of the318challenges that we face affect the people we represent. It's319not a red state/blue state deal. It's like, high electricity320bills are tough on whoever it is we represent. And Senator321Gallego, you were talking about how we really have to modernize322our transmission system.323    But the bill that Senator McCormick and I are promoting324says let's take the system we have and enhance it through325technology. There are a lot more electrons that can flow326through what we have. That is such a less expensive way to327increase the access to the electrons that we need. So, you328know, we use the term common sense, but what it is really329grounded in, and Senator McCormick, I so appreciate you being330willing to work with me, and we share the view that working331together we can make more progress. But it's because the332identical challenges that those ratepayers in Pennsylvania face333are the identical challenges of ratepayers in Vermont. And this334is a real Maine kind of thing--take what you have and get more335out of it--use it, and use it more efficiently.336    So, I so appreciate this Committee, partnering with you,337Senator McCormick, and thank you so much for the opportunity to338be here and promote this legislation.339    Senator McCormick. Thank you, Senator Welch. I share that340sentiment. Thank you so much for being a great partner on this.341    I would also like to thank the two witnesses that we have342here today. First, we have David Morenoff, the Deputy General343Counsel of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC). And344the second is Mr. Kal Ayoub, the Director of the Office of345Electric Reliability, also at FERC.346    So, what I would like to do is, ask the witnesses to come347forward, and we will ask you to each have five minutes and then348we will turn to questions. And for my fellow Senators who are349here, Senator King and Senator Padilla, I am happy to cede my350questions, my time, to each of you after Senator Gallego, and351you can ask your questions, and I will wrap up in the end.352Okay?353    All right, Mr. Morenoff, the floor is yours for five354minutes to give your opening statement.355356STATEMENT OF DAVID L. MORENOFF, DEPUTY GENERAL COUNSEL, FEDERAL357                  ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION358359    Mr. Morenoff. Chairman McCormick, Ranking Member Gallego,360and Members of the Subcommittee, my name is David Morenoff. I361appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today as a362member of the staff of the Federal Energy Regulatory363Commission. I currently serve as the Commission's Deputy364General Counsel. The views I express today are my own and are365not necessarily those of the Commission or of any individual366Commissioner. The Commission's jurisdiction covers a range of367vital energy-related responsibilities. For example, it is the368Commission's responsibility to ensure that rates for the369wholesale sale and transmission of electricity, as well as the370transportation of natural gas by pipeline in interstate371commerce, are just and reasonable. The Commission is also372responsible for overseeing the reliability of the nation's bulk373power system. In addition, the Commission is responsible for374siting needed energy infrastructure, including interstate375natural gas pipelines, liquefied natural gas, and hydroelectric376facilities. By fulfilling these responsibilities, the377Commission helps to ensure that our country has a reliable and378affordable supply of energy.379    With these responsibilities in mind, Commission Chairman380Laura Swett has recognized that our country is at a historic381crossroads and has highlighted three priorities for the382Commission: (1) keeping the lights on and the pipelines flowing383at just and reasonable rates, (2) doing everything within the384Commission's power to facilitate the connection of large loads385and data centers, while also ensuring that the resulting costs386are fairly allocated, and (3) maximizing the Commission's387ability to encourage and facilitate infrastructure development,388which is critical to reliability, safety, and our economy.389    These responsibilities and priorities both drive the390Commission's actions and align with the themes of the proposed391bills that are the subject of today's hearing. Spurred in part392by the demands of emerging large loads, such as data centers,393our country is experiencing rapid growth of electric load394unlike anything seen in at least several decades. To not only395meet that growth, but also to do so in an affordable manner, it396is important to interconnect new generation resources397expeditiously. The Commission has approved proposals from the398grid operators for several large regions of the country to399expedite interconnection for generation resources that are more400likely to be constructed and that will meet those regions'401respective needs. The Commission also has acted on filings made402by all jurisdictional transmission providers in compliance with403the Commission's Order No. 2023, a unanimous Commission final404rule on the interconnection of new generation resources.405    Addressing a related issue, the Commission, in December,406directed the nation's largest grid operator to establish407transparent rules to serve data centers and other large loads408that are co-located with generation. Those rules will safeguard409reliability and protect consumers, impacting over 67 million410Americans. The Commission has also approved innovative411proposals from other grid operators to expedite interconnection412of large-load additions and associated generation in a manner413that accommodates the unique operational demands of large loads414while also facilitating reliable interconnection and protecting415other transmission customers. The bills that are the subject of416today's hearing sound similar themes of reliability and417affordability. Some of the bills identify potential reliability418challenges, such as what too often have been frustratingly slow419processes for the interconnection of new generation resources.420Others of the bills underscore the importance of making full421use of existing electric infrastructure in support of422affordability, including through appropriate application of423grid-enhancing technologies.424    If Congress determines that these important issues warrant425providing further direction to the Commission and authorizing426further tools for the Commission's use, the Commission stands427ready to take on those additional responsibilities. Thank you428for the invitation to testify before the Subcommittee today. I429would be happy to answer any questions you may have.430    [The prepared statement of Mr. Morenoff follows:]431    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]432433    Senator McCormick. Thank you.434    Mr. Ayoub.435436     STATEMENT OF KAL AYOUB, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF ELECTRIC437       RELIABILITY, FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION438439    Mr. Ayoub. Chairman McCormick, Ranking Member Gallego, and440members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to441testify today. My name is Kal Ayoub, and I am the Director of442the Office of Electric Reliability at the Federal Energy443Regulatory Commission. The Office is responsible for leading444the Commission's responsibilities in protecting, improving, and445overseeing the reliability and security of the nation's bulk446power system through effective regulatory oversight established447in the Energy Policy Act of 2005. I am here today as a448Commission staff witness. My remarks do not necessarily449represent those of the Commission or any individual450Commissioner. My testimony summarizes the Commission's451oversight of the reliability of the bulk power system and452recent Commission activity implementing that authority.453    The Energy Policy Act of 2005 added Section 215 to the454Federal Power Act, giving the Commission authority over455mandatory, enforceable reliability standards for the nation's456bulk power system, which includes the interconnected U.S. grid,457but excludes Alaska, Hawaii, and local distribution systems.458Under this provision, the Commission certified NERC as the459electric reliability organization responsible for the460development of reliability standards for Commission review,461approval, and subsequent enforcement by NERC and its regional462entities, subject to Commission oversight. The Commission may463approve or remand a reliability standard based on statutory464criteria, but cannot write or modify the standard itself.465Instead, it may direct NERC to develop new or revised standards466to address identified reliability gaps.467    Reliability today is shaped by factors that test468resilience. Those include rapid load growth from large loads,469such as data centers, a more diverse resource mix that requires470accurate modeling and consistent performance expectations, and471the increasing frequency of extreme weather events. On top of472this is the ever-present and constantly evolving threat473landscape related to cybersecurity and physical security.474Protecting the grid from malicious actors, whether through475cyber intrusions, physical attacks on critical facilities, or476exploitations in the supply chain, remains fundamental to477maintaining reliability. The Commission has taken extensive478actions over the years to ensure reliability. Since adopting479the critical infrastructure standards in 2008, it has expanded480protections against cyber and physical threats, including481supply chain risks, network monitoring, and incident response.482To address extreme weather, the Commission approved new483standards, directed improvements to cold weather preparedness,484and required vulnerability assessments. It also directed NERC485to develop new standards for inverter-based resources, which486the Commission has since approved.487    Currently, the Commission is closely following the488emergence of large loads. This includes ongoing NERC activity489to identify and register large loads for compliance with490reliability standards and develop new reliability standards491that address their associated reliability risks. Once492completed, NERC will submit their reliability standards for493Commission review and approval. The Commission's core mission,494as Chairman Swett emphasizes, is to ensure reliable, secure,495and affordable energy. Her focus on regulatory certainty is496essential for timely infrastructure investment and for enabling497large loads to connect to the grid predictably, while498maintaining reliability is reflected in the work that is499highlighted today. The legislation under consideration reflects500these challenges, highlighting the need for clear planning501processes, accurate risk assessments, timely infrastructure502development, and strong coordination across stakeholders. The503Commission remains committed to working with Congress, NERC,504and industry to uphold a reliable, resilient, and secure bulk505power system.506    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.507    [The prepared statement of Mr. Ayoub follows:]508    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]509510    Senator McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Ayoub.511    Senator Gallego, do you want to go ahead with your512questions?513    Senator Gallego. I will defer to Senator King, in case he514wants to ask questions and head out since I will be here the515whole time.516    Senator King.517    Senator King. Thank you very much. Perhaps AI could do a518better job of scheduling the Senate.519    [Laughter.]520    Senator King. I have three hearings at the very same time521this afternoon, so I appreciate that, both of you.522    I just wanted to mention two bills that I think are523particularly important. One is the Advancing GETs Act, which524would basically not mandate grid-enhancing technologies, but525provide an incentive to developers to counteract the current526incentive, which is to build things in the old way. And Mr.527Ayoub, my study indicates that GETs can really have a528significant--up to 30 percent--increase in the throughput of529the grid at a much lower cost than an entire rebuild. Is that530your judgment?531    Mr. Ayoub. Thank you for the question, Senator.532    So, from a reliability perspective, grid-enhancing533technologies provide tremendous value to the grid, such as534reconductoring, optimization, and dynamic line ratings. So,535from a reliability perspective, I think, any more electrons536that we can get on the grid is a positive, specifically when537there are short-term solutions in terms of building new538transmission lines.539    Senator King. Well, one of the advantages is time.540    Mr. Ayoub. Correct.541    Senator King. This is something that would be done almost542immediately with no permitting and no delays. Secondly, it's543much cheaper. And one of the problems that we face is that this544gigantic expansion of the grid is going to be expensive. And we545are now seeing transmission and distribution costs that exceed546the cost of generating electricity. So, that's why I think this547is an important initiative. And again, what it does is548basically provide an incentive to the developer of the549transmission.550    The second bill is one that I am proud to co-sponsor with551the Chairman, and that is the REWIRE Act, which is about552conductors. This is a conventional conductor, and this is a553carbon-based conductor.554    [Photograph of the two conductors follows:]555    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]556557    Senator King. As you can see, it's smaller and lighter. It558will carry twice the electricity. And so, this is another way559of significantly increasing the grid capacity without new560poles, without new rights-of-way, without the huge expense. And561the REWIRE Act, under the Chairman's leadership, would562basically say, you don't have to go through a long permitting563process because there's no environmental impact of this, except564for the good, but it's also a way of considerably cutting the565cost of the expansion that we all agree is necessary. So, you566mentioned reconductoring. Expand on that--and you are welcome567to say that I am right.568    [Laughter.]569    Mr. Ayoub. Senator King, thank you for the question. I570would agree that grid-enhancing technologies, which include571reconductoring, provide tremendous value because, as you572mention, they are improvements to existing lines on existing573rights-of-way. Imagine having a two-lane road, and you are574getting congestion over the years, and you ask yourself, rather575than build a new highway, which is important, can we expand576that two-lane road to a four-lane road temporarily until we577address the other issue? So, absolutely, it's all of the above.578From a reliability standpoint, I will always say getting579electrons through the transmission lines is a positive for all580of us.581    Senator King. But I do think that we have to be thinking582about cost because electric rates are already going up and are583too high in many regions of the country--in New England. And584the expansion of the grid, if we don't watch it, is going to585substantially increase. I remember the day when T&D was 30586percent of the bill. Now it's over 50 percent, approaching 60587percent, and it's going to be even more than that unless we588adopt the technologies that will enable us to do this expansion589without burdening the ratepayers. And that's your mission at590FERC, is it not?591    Mr. Morenoff. Senator, thank you. Yes, I agree entirely.592The Commission's mission is to ensure just and reasonable rates593for consumers, and that goes directly to the issues that you594have raised.595    Senator King. Thank you.596    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. I appreciate your597allowing me to go forward.598    Senator McCormick. Senator Padilla.599    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Likewise, I600appreciate the accommodation, the flexibility, I appreciate you601and the Ranking Member calling for today's hearing and want to602register my support for two of the bills included in this603hearing today--Senator King's Advancing GETs Act, and of604course, Mr. Chairman, your REWIRE Act. Now, these bills, I605think, take crucial steps toward modernizing our grid--which is606needed, and in many places overdue--with the advanced607transmission conductors and grid-enhancing technologies that608Senator King and I talk so frequently about. As you can tell,609he is a big fan. They also represent key pieces of what needs610to be done to build out a reliable transmission system in this611country, particularly as the population grows, our economy612grows, and the need for electrons continues to grow.613    But separately, I wanted to highlight the discussion draft614on transmission that I, along with four of my colleagues on615this Committee, have been circulating to address the616transmission system more holistically. The package includes617provisions from both of the bills on the agenda today, and I618want to thank the Chair, again, for his focus on this topic.619    Now, getting to my first question, Mr. Ayoub, I know you620have been responding to Senator King's questions about the621benefits of these new technologies. I wanted to hear from Mr.622Morenoff on any identified barriers from a legal and/or623administrative perspective to the deployment of reconductoring624or grid-enhancing technologies at scale, right? If we are625convinced this is the direction to go, how do we go as quickly626as possible? What needs to change to let us do so?627    Mr. Morenoff. Senator, thank you for that question. I think628it's currently less an issue of legal barriers and more about,629as Senator King was saying, establishing proper incentives630because there may be reasons why individual utilities in a631particular situation may choose to make a different investment632rather than utilizing a grid-enhancing technology. And I think633that some of the bills on today's agenda seek to address that634challenge, to say, are there more incentives that we can635provide to try to make those technologies more appealing, and636therefore be able to provide those benefits to ratepayers?637    Senator Padilla. Okay.638    And what specifically may come from Congress/the federal639level versus what states may provide, or in rate cases that640utilities have to go through to be able to, again, take these641leaps forward?642    Mr. Morenoff. Thank you, Senator. That's true that many643utilities would have matters both before FERC as well as before644the commission at the state level. I suspect that there is a645common interest across those levels-- certainly the case at646FERC, and I know here at the Committee--on doing everything we647can to ensure that rates are just and reasonable. And if this648is one of the steps that we can take to promote that result,649hopefully the incentives that we are discussing can drive more650effort in that direction, as well as in the type of new651investment we need.652    Senator Padilla. Okay.653    Moving on to a related topic, FERC spent the last five654years working to accelerate generator interconnection queues655through its work on Order No. 2023. I know you are both very656familiar with that. I see the heads nodding. In the last year,657FERC also approved regional-specific accelerated programs to658get new generation connected to the grid quickly. All of these659programs included battery storage. I know this is a660Subcommittee. I will repeat it at the next opportunity for the661full Committee. I think the Chairman would appreciate hearing662this. All of these programs included battery storage. All were663fuel-neutral and all prioritized projects that are commercially664available and ready to break ground.665    Mr. Morenoff, is further action to reorder interconnection666queues really going to help move the ball forward when so much667has already been accomplished?668    Mr. Morenoff. Senator, thank you. As you noted, the669Commission has taken many steps in recent years to accelerate670interconnection, both with respect to establishing generic671rules for all jurisdictional transmission providers in Order672No. 2023, as well as in responding to the individual filings we673have received from individual regions highlighting their needs.674Whether there are additional steps to prioritize additional675types of resources, we would, of course, defer to Congress and676be available to implement whatever Congress may determine is677appropriate.678    Senator Padilla. Yes, obviously, the concern would be when679we get to be too prescriptive on the types of projects and we680are no longer neutral on that front, that could undermine the681implementation of work that has been underway already and682moving us in the right direction. So, thank you for your683participation today.684    Senator McCormick. Senator Gallego.685    Senator Gallego. Thank you, Chairman.686    It took the Commission more than two years to issue its687landmark interconnection order, Order No. 2023. Conversely, the688GRID Power Act would require final regulations issued on the689bill within 180 days of enactment. Could you explain how the690Commission could benefit from having more than six months to691implement this type of rule?692    Mr. Morenoff. Thank you, Senator, for that question.693    As you noted, large-scale rulemakings, like the694Commission's Order No. 2023, involve a series of steps, usually695including at least the issuance of a notice of proposed696rulemaking. We often then receive extensive comments back,697which we take seriously in developing anything that would be a698final rule. It has been the case, typically, that we have699needed longer than that six-month period in order to reach a700final rule. We also recognize the importance of the types of701issues that are being addressed, and that when Congress sets a702timeline, FERC takes those timelines very seriously and has a703very good track record of meeting the deadlines that Congress704establishes.705    Senator Gallego. And then, Mr. Ayoub, does FERC currently706have the expertise and data to review proposed agency actions707for reliability concerns? And how helpful is it to have NERC's708expertise as part of the reliability assessment process?709    Mr. Ayoub. Thank you, Senator.710    As the Director of the Office of Electric Reliability, of711course, we do have expertise, and our priorities right now are712focused on managing reliability as a resource amidst changes,713responding to extreme weather, and protecting the grid from714physical and cyber-attacks. In terms of cross-agency expertise,715I think I would, if it's okay with you, Senator, I may defer to716Mr. Morenoff, the Deputy General Counsel.717    Mr. Morenoff. Thank you.718    Both with respect to our interaction with other agencies719and our interaction with NERC, for some of the depth of720studies, it is particularly beneficial to have that type of721draw on the expertise, and in particular, the computing power722that may be available. Some of the studies that were described723in the bill that you are referencing, we believe that NERC724would have the capability of doing, and perhaps the national725labs would have the capability of doing. FERC would very much726benefit from that information, but would not currently have the727capability of doing those studies ourselves.728    Senator Gallego. Okay.729    Mr. Morenoff, FERC's Chairman is named by the President,730potentially inputting a more political process into these grid731reliability determinations, as FERC approval appears necessary732for certain agency actions to become final. Members of both733parties have spoken about the importance of consistency in734permitting across agencies for the stability of both the grid735and private business. Would adding the risk of more political736process hurt certainty and stability for the grid?737    Mr. Morenoff. Thank you, Senator.738    I would agree that the more certainty that we can provide739with respect to permitting--and in fact, Chairman Swett has740spoken more generally about the benefits of providing greater741regulatory certainty at a time when investment is so greatly742needed.743    Senator Gallego. Mr. Ayoub, turning back to the GRID Power744Act, can you explain whether prioritizing certain forms of745generation over others could impact grid reliability or energy746affordability in the long run?747    Mr. Ayoub. Thank you, Senator.748    Again, as the Director of the Office of Electric749Reliability, focusing strictly on cyber and physical security,750inverter-based resources, extreme weather, I just want to751clarify, Senator, is your question specific to generator752interconnection reform?753    Senator Gallego. No, prioritizing certain forms of754generation to incent in terms of generation when it comes to755renewables versus carbon-based versus nuclear, you know, in756terms of, I believe personally that the government should be757agnostic about it, right? Try to figure out how to get as many758electrons on the grid as fast as possible and move them from759everywhere. And I want to hear your assertion whether you agree760that there should be an agnostic approach to power generation.761    Mr. Ayoub. Thank you for the clarification, Senator.762Absolutely, the Commission is technology-neutral, has always763been, and the Commission doesn't pick winners or losers or764which specific technologies should be considered under any act.765    Senator Gallego. Okay, and the reason I bring that up is766because we have seen this administration decide that carbon-767based energy is quote/unquote ``better'' than renewables, and I768think at some point, you know, when it comes to being able to769generate and then move it, sometimes it might actually be770better and cheaper for us to be using renewables, and sometimes771it is good to use carbon. And I would be fine for that, too,772but I want to make sure that it's being decided on an agnostic773basis. That is going to be the most important thing, I think,774to bring down the cost for the consumer.775    And I yield back.776    Senator McCormick. Thank you.777    Mr. Morenoff, let me begin by asking about the REWIRE Act778that we talked about a few minutes ago. As we know,779reconductoring allows us to increase capacity using the780existing transmission lines or rights-of-way. Based on FERC's781experience, how much additional capacity can reconductoring782make available on the existing system, and to what extent are783existing utilities already using this approach?784    Mr. Morenoff. Thank you, Senator. I can talk about that785broadly and then my colleague, Mr. Ayoub, may have some786additional, more technical thoughts.787    Senator McCormick. Great.788    Mr. Morenoff. But I think the observation is correct that789there is great potential from the application of reconductoring790and other advanced technologies in order to get more out of our791existing system. Although I don't have a particular percentage792in mind, I do think that we have seen, as some utilities have793started to take steps----794    Senator McCormick. But rare, or common at this point?795    Mr. Morenoff. I don't have a number to offer, I'm sorry.796    Senator McCormick. Okay.797    Mr. Ayoub.798    Mr. Ayoub. Thank you, Senator.799    I don't have a percentage of how many utilities are800adopting them, but I know they are becoming more popular801amongst--for the obvious reason, Senator, where we are pushing802more electrons through the transmission lines without building803new lines.804    Senator McCormick. Great.805    And this question goes to both of you, I think. We are806seeing renewed growth, as I mentioned in my opening statement,807across a number of sectors in terms of electricity demand. How808is FERC assessing the implications of that growth for grid809reliability, and what trends are you seeing in the810interconnection queue today?811    Mr. Ayoub. I can speak from the reliability side and I will812turn it over to my colleague.813    Senator McCormick. Great.814    Mr. Ayoub. So, thank you, Senator, for the question.815    We work, as you are aware, with NERC--the North American816Electric Reliability Corporation--which issues a long-term817reliability assessment every year that looks ten years ahead818and sort of looks at the entire continent, and through that819assessment, really looks at where there are generation820deficiencies, transmission issues, and they come up with a map821every year as a snapshot. So, we work very closely with NERC as822we are looking at the long-term reliability assessment, and823through that, before my colleague picks up, the Commission has824approved some processes, for which Mr. Morenoff would go into825detail, but from our standpoint, working with NERC, we do826identify through studies, et cetera, where those reliability827gaps are.828    Mr. Morenoff. Thank you, Senator.829    And with respect to interconnection, in particular, I think830that the slow pace of interconnections, which sometimes takes831seven or eight years for a proposed project to move through the832interconnection queue, always was a problem for drawing the833investment that was needed. As the pace of load growth has834increased so dramatically, that has become not just a835frustration, but a really dramatic problem in terms of having836the adequate generation resources available. I think the837Commission's actions over the past several years reflect838several steps to address that, both in terms of establishing839more effective baseline rules through Order No. 2023, and then840also, recognizing that individual regions face different841challenges. And looking at the proposals they have brought to842FERC to say, what are the resources they need, what are those843resources' characteristics, and trying to look for ways in the844short term to further expedite the processing of those845generating resources.846    One other observation in that respect is that, above and847beyond what the Commission has already improved, there are some848transmission providers that are also looking for ways to adopt849other advanced technologies into their interconnection queue850processing. And there seems to be great potential to further851expedite that processing through the use of those technologies.852    Senator McCormick. Very good. Thank you.853    Mr. Ayoub, I want to ask you about the legislation I854introduced with Senator Coons, the Liquid Cooling for AI Act.855As we know, data centers are crucial to winning the AI race856with China. Data centers' annual energy use could grow from 4.4857percent of the country's total annual electricity consumption858to 12 percent by 2028, just around the corner. What changes has859FERC observed in the scale and pace of large-load860interconnection requests, and is the current system keeping861pace with that demand, or do you see strains emerging?862    Mr. Ayoub. Thank you for your question, Senator.863    So, I will start with you first, with the legislation. I864understand it's directed at the DOE, but I did want to comment865that while the Commission is technology-neutral, any technology866that can lower the consumption and use from data centers would867be a good thing for the grid. In terms of large-load868connections and application to the Commission, as my colleague869Mr. Morenoff has said, you know, there have been some orders870that the Commission has issued, specifically the show cause871orders, but I can turn it over to Mr. Morenoff for details on872the orders themselves. I want to make sure I am careful with873what is ex parte and what is not yet.874    Mr. Morenoff. Thank you, Senator.875    The Commission has already taken some steps, recognizing876that the issues about exactly what will be FERC-jurisdictional877and what will be state-jurisdictional are not entirely clear.878But the Commission has taken actions within our jurisdiction to879ensure that there is greater clarity about the rules as to at880least the context of large loads and the context of co-location881with generation. And I think that clarity will help to provide882greater investment incentives as well.883    Senator McCormick. Very good.884    Gentlemen, is there anything either of you would like to885offer in addition to the questions you were asked or your886initial statements?887    Mr. Morenoff. Senator, just, again, to thank you for the888opportunity and for the leadership that this Committee is889demonstrating on these really important issues. FERC very much890values the opportunity to be part of that continuing discussion891with you and with the Committee.892    Senator McCormick. Okay.893    Senator Gallego, do you have any more questions or894anything?895    Mr. Ayoub. And I will say thank you so much, Senator. It is896a privilege to be here. My family is here with me to come897watch. And in terms of offering our office, I am sure I speak898for David as well, always available for technical assistance on899future bills as well.900    Senator Gallego. Thank you for your time.901    Senator McCormick. Yes, very good.902    I just want to thank you both, thank you to your families903for being here to support you. I want to recognize each member904in attendance and have them noted by the clerk. And I really905want to thank you for coming. We are trying to get a lot done906in this area, and your expertise is very helpful.907    Official questions for the record--I don't think we had any908questions for the record--but those questions are due by 6:00909p.m. today. Statements for the official record are due on910Wednesday, April 22, 2026.911    And with that, the hearing is adjourned. Thank you.912    [Whereupon, at 3:22 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]913914                      APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED915916                              ----------917918[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]919920                                 [all]