Hearings to examine the nominations of Gary Shatswell, of Washington, to be an Assistant Secretary (Information and Technology), and Michael Tierney, of Pennsylvania, to be an Assistant Secretary (Office of Accountability and Whistleblower Protection), both of the Department of Veterans Affairs.
Open Hearing•Senate Veterans' Affairs•Jun 3, 2026 · 4:00 PM
Summary
Senate Veterans' Affairs held an open hearing on Jun 3, 2026 at 4:00 PM in Russell Senate Office Building, Room 418.
Record
The meeting has its transcript on the record.
Transcript
The transcript runs to 1,255 lines and 64,375 characters, as the Government Publishing Office printed it.
1[Senate Hearing 119-442]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34 S. Hrg. 119-44256 HEARING TO CONSIDER PENDING NOMINATIONS7=======================================================================89 HEARING1011 BEFORE THE1213 COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS14 UNITED STATES SENATE1516 ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS1718 SECOND SESSION1920 __________2122 JUNE 3, 20262324 __________2526 Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs2728[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]2930 Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov31 __________3233 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE3463-995 PDF WASHINGTON : 202635=======================================================================3637 SENATE COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS3839 Jerry Moran, Kansas, Chairman40John Boozman, Arkansas Richard Blumenthal, Connecticut,41Bill Cassidy, Louisiana Ranking Member42Thom Tillis, North Carolina Patty Murray, Washington43Dan Sullivan, Alaska Bernard Sanders, Vermont44Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee Mazie K. Hirono, Hawaii45Kevin Cramer, North Dakota Margaret Wood Hassan, New46Tommy Tuberville, Alabama Hampshire47Jim Banks, Indiana Angus S. King, Jr., Maine48Tim Sheehy, Montana Tammy Duckworth, Illinois49 Ruben Gallego, Arizona50 Elissa Slotkin, Michigan5152 David Shearman, Staff Director53 Tony McClain, Democratic Staff Director5455 C O N T E N T S5657 ----------5859 June 3, 20266061 SENATORS6263 Page64Hon. Jerry Moran, Chairman, U.S. Senator from Kansas............. 165Hon. Richard Blumenthal, Ranking Member, U.S. Senator from66 Connecticut.................................................... 267Hon. Thom Tillis, U.S. Senator from North Carolina............... 868Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan, U.S. Senator from New Hampshire....... 1069Hon. Tim Sheehy, U.S. Senator from Montana....................... 1270Hon. Angus S. King, Jr., U.S. Senator from Maine................. 147172 NOMINEES7374Gary Shatswell, Nominee to be Secretary of Veteran Affairs for75 Information and Technology..................................... 37677Michael Tierney, Nominee to be Assistant Secretary of Veterans78 Affairs for the Office of Accountability and Whistleblower79 Protection..................................................... 58081 APPENDIX82 Opening Statement8384Hon. Richard Blumenthal.......................................... 258586 Nomination Material8788GARY SHATSWELL, Nominee8990 Prepared Statement............................................. 319192 Response to Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record submitted by:9394 Hon. Jerry Moran............................................. 3495 Hon. Richard Blumenthal...................................... 419697 Response to Questions for the Record submitted by:9899 Hon. Richard Blumenthal...................................... 46100 Hon. Thom Tillis............................................. 51101102 Questionnaire for Presidential Nominees........................ 53103104 Addendum Questionnaire for Presidential Nominee................ 64105106MICHAEL TIERNEY, Nominee107108 Prepared Statement............................................. 69109110 Response to Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record submitted by:111112 Hon. Jerry Moran............................................. 72113 Hon. Richard Blumenthal...................................... 79114115 Response to Questions for the Record submitted by:116117 Hon. Richard Blumenthal...................................... 83118 Hon. Thom Tillis............................................. 87119 Hon. Angus S. King, Jr....................................... 90120121 Questionnaire for Presidential Nominees........................ 92122123 Addendum Questionnaire for Presidential Nominee................ 102124125 HEARING TO126 CONSIDER PENDING NOMINATIONS127128 ----------129130 WEDNESDAY, JUNE 3, 2026131132 U.S. Senate,133 Committee on Veterans' Affairs,134 Washington, DC.135 The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 4:22 p.m., in136Room SR-418, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Jerry Moran,137Chairman of the Committee, presiding.138139 Present: Senators Moran, Tillis, Sheehy, Blumenthal,140Hassan, and King.141142 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JERRY MORAN,143 CHAIRMAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM KANSAS144145 Chairman Moran. The Committee will come to order, and I146apologize to our two witnesses. I've apologized to my147colleagues, and I'll apologize to all those who've been sitting148in the room waiting for this hearing to start. I guess nothing149is unavoidable, but it's been difficult to keep today's150schedule on time. And I'll do my best to make it up to my151colleagues in particular, and the witnesses still need our152cooperation. So, I'm not too worried about the two of you being153angry at me.154 [Laughter.]155 Senator Blumenthal. Since none of us have ever been late156before to a Committee meeting, we'll excuse you just this once.157 Chairman Moran. That's so kind of you. Such as proving158that, we're sort of a bipartisan effort in this Committee.159Look, we're here to hear the testimony and consider the160nominations of two individuals. Gary Shatswell to be the161Assistant Secretary of Veterans Affairs for Information and162Technology and Michael Tierney to be the Assistant Secretary of163Veterans Affairs for Accountability and Whistleblower164Protection. I appreciate your willingness to serve.165 There are important issues that come with your positions,166and I look forward to the Committee asking the necessary167questions to determine the qualifications and capabilities and168the appropriateness of confirming your nomination. That's169particularly true when there's the timing of the rollout of new170electronic health records. It's back on track after a lengthy171pause. And artificial intelligence is transforming every172sector. It's critical that the VA to have a strong and173qualified Chief Information Officer. I look forward to hearing174from Mr. Shatswell, if he's confirmed, how he would lead that175modernization effort, safeguard data, and effectively integrate176automation and AI in the Department to increase access to care,177benefits to veterans, and their families to rely on.178 Likewise, I look forward to hearing from Mr. Tierney about179how, if confirmed, he would increase accountability,180transparency and trust among veterans, caregivers, survivors,181and the VA staff members, as well as taxpayers and the American182public. The VA, as we know, supports millions of veterans and183beneficiaries, employs hundreds of thousands of employees, and184operates medical facilities and regional offices and cemeteries185around the globe with a budget that has totaled more than $500186billion in fiscal year 2027. Accountability is not an option,187and it's essential. I'm grateful to both of you for being here188and for your willingness, your eagerness, perhaps, to take on189the challenges that I just described and all those other190challenges that we may not even recognize today.191 And with that, I yield to the Ranking Member, Senator192Blumenthal.193194 HON. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL,195 RANKING MEMBER, U.S. SENATOR FROM CONNECTICUT196197 Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. These are two198critical positions. Whistleblowers play a critical role in199bringing fraud, waste, and abuse to light, and they can200actually save lives. In the fiscal year 2025, there were more201than 4,300 complaints, but only 32 disciplinary202recommendations. The GAO found last year that, VA is unable to203track corrective actions taken in whistleblower cases, and does204not have accurate data about settlement agreements. This year's205budget proposal fails to keep pace with inflation and keeps206staffing levels stagnant.207 The request doesn't account for additional manpower needed208for tracking cases, as recommended by the GAO. It certainly209doesn't account for the 31 percent increase in complaints and210disclosures during the fiscal year 2025. And the budget request211wouldn't support the Department's intent to expand the office's212authority to proactively investigate unreported whistleblower213retaliation, which would increase the workload immensely. This214is a recipe for continued failure.215 And if confirmed, Mr. Tierney, you will have to demonstrate216the backbone, stand up to this Administration and to the217President of the United States and say, we need to protect218whistleblowers. We need to do more and invest more, and provide219the tools and authority that are needed to effectively do this220job. We owe it to our veterans.221 Likewise, Mr. Shatswell, if you're confirmed, you'll be222responsible for managing a technology system that have been in223the Senate for close to 16 years, like Senator Moran, has been224a classic story of government failure, and it is ongoing. And225I'm not going to go into all the details. I'm going to ask that226my full statement be put in the record.227 Chairman Moran. Without objection.228229 [The opening statement of Senator Blumenthal appears on230pages 25-27 of the Appendix.]231232 Senator Blumenthal. But plainly, this system has suffered233from massive cost overruns. It still is failing to work as234intended 15 or more years ago, and the Congress is going to235need your commitment to ensure that there are appropriate236guardrails and transparency in how the VA uses AI and237automation now, features that couldn't have been envisioned 15238years ago.239 So, I look forward to hearing more from you about your240plans for the future. And I hope that they will allay some of241the concerns that I think we have and should have, about242whether you will be independent sufficiently to say to the243Administration, in effect, this ain't working for our veterans,244because we need that independence. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.245 Chairman Moran. Senator Blumenthal, thank you. Mr.246Shatswell and Mr. Tierney, before being recognized for your247opening statement, would you please stand and raise your right248hand? Hands.249 [Both stand with right hand raised.]250 Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're251about to give before the U.S. Senate Committee on Veterans'252Affairs will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the253truth, so help you God?254 Mr. Shatswell. I do.255 Mr. Tierney. I do.256 Chairman Moran. If so, please respond affirmatively, and257you have. The record should note both have done so. Thank you258very much. Please be seated. And, Mr. Shatswell, you are now259recognized for your opening statement.260261 STATEMENT OF GARY SHATSWELL, NOMINEE TO BE SECRETARY OF262 VETERANS AFFAIRS FOR INFORMATION AND TECHNOLOGY263264 Mr. Shatswell. Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal,265and distinguished Members of the Committee, thank you for the266opportunity to appear before you today as the nominee to serve267as the Assistant Secretary for Information and Technology and268Chief Information Officer for the Department of Veterans269Affairs. I am deeply grateful to the President, President270Donald J. Trump, for this honor and for his confidence in me.271And I'm thankful to Secretary Douglas A. Collins for his trust.272 I sit before you a man who loves God, my family, and my273country. So, I begin with God. I am filled with gratitude to my274Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, whose words have guided my life.275In John 15, he says ``There is no greater love than to lay down276one's life for a friend.'' Those words describe the ethos of277every man and woman who has worn this Nation's uniform. Placing278something larger than themselves above their own comfort,279safety and, in some cases, their lives. If confirmed, honoring280their sacrifice and service, will be a guiding light.281 To my family, I want to acknowledge my three amazing282children who are watching online; Julia, Elizabeth, and283Garrison. I love you more than words, and I'm so proud of who284you are and how it shows up in your faith, service, and work.285My family name, though uncommon, has deep roots. John Shatswell286built his first home in Ipswich in 1635. Thomas Shatswell was a287drummer boy for the Patriots in the Revolutionary War. Colonel288Nathaniel Shatswell fought for the Union in the Civil War. Of289the eight boys in my father's family, six served, including my290father. My uncle, Kenny, returned from Vietnam wearing a Purple291Heart. I have cousins, nieces, and nephews that have served.292Before my father passed, I took him regularly to the VA in293Tacoma, Washington and saw firsthand what the VA means to those294who served and those who love them.295 Finally, to my country, I was raised in an extraordinary296family that formed my love for America. We traveled extensively297singing gospel music. When I was 10 years old, we toured298Europe, including Behind the Iron Curtain. I remember feeling299the oppression as we crossed those borders. And I remember how300the next time I recited the Pledge of Allegiance, tears ran301down my face. American freedom became real to me.302 Since joining the VA as a senior advisor to Secretary303Collins on December 1 of 2025, I've met with senior leaders in304the central office, medical centers, clinics, and cemeteries305around the country. I sat with many veterans and heard their306stories. That time of listening was invaluable. From my307industry experience, I began asking: what if? What if we308connected with service members when they enlisted and stayed309present through active duty, transition, and the rest of their310lives? No one left behind.311 What if we eliminated repeatedly asking veterans the same312questions and the same information? What if, rather than313digitizing old paper processes, we re-imagined them in314digitally native ways. It has been a blessing to witness the315breadth of support this country provides its veterans. But316frankly, we can and must do better when it comes to information317technology.318 My conversations with leadership and individual319contributors have revealed a few common themes. We need a320culture of transparency and accountability achievable through321agile program management, which will also accelerate mission322delivery. We must go faster.323 Regarding artificial intelligence, we need clear, bright-324lined guardrails of security and privacy, enabling a green325light to drive productivity and human decision-making. We need326to leverage our enterprise data as a strategic asset,327strengthening security and unlocking benefits we cannot yet328fully envision.329 My resume highlights 30 years of executive leadership,330hyper-growth, turnaround management, yet there are countless331untold stories. For example, I created and taught the first web332development course at Microsoft in the mid-90s. I ask hard333questions and I do hard work. I've had the privilege of meeting334with several of you, and in those conversations about improving335service to our veterans that has deepened my commitment. If336confirmed, I will support the Secretary and this Committee, to337prioritize, execute, and deliver.338 In loving God, my family, and this country, the threat of339service is in my DNA. Mr. Chairman and Members of this340Committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you341and to be considered for this position. I look forward to342answering your questions.343344 [The prepared statement of Mr. Shatswell appears on pages34531-33 of the Appendix.]346347 Chairman Moran. Mr. Shatswell, thank you for your348statement. Now, Mr. Tierney.349350STATEMENT OF MICHAEL TIERNEY, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY351 OF VETERANS AFFAIRS FOR THE OFFICE OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND352 WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTION353354 Mr. Tierney. Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal, and355Members of this Committee, thank you for the opportunity to356appear before you today. It is a genuine honor.357 I want to begin by acknowledging my family members who are358here with me today, my wife of 26 years, Margaret, and two of359my children. My son Michael, a rising second-class midshipman360at the United States Naval Academy, and my younger daughter,361Caroline, a rising freshman at the University of California,362Berkeley. My older daughter, Madeleine, is preparing for her363graduation at the University of Chicago, where she is a364business economics major. Thank you also to President Trump and365Secretary Collins for their confidence in me.366 There is a quote often attributed to Sir Thomas More, the367English lawyer and philosopher that has relevance today: ``In368matters of law, morality aside, one must remember that the law369itself is the foundation of justice, and all who practice it370must not evade it.'' In the practice of being a lawyer, I was371reminded daily of the importance of the principle, to simply372follow the law.373 My legal career spans 30 years, first as a litigator, then374as a corporate attorney and senior partner at a Philadelphia375law firm, then as in-house counsel to the Federal Government.376I've led large teams through complex, high stakes matters. In377one of my larger engagements, I managed a team of 40 lawyers378through my client's successful $560 million acquisition of379Philadelphia's two major daily newspapers.380 I also represented the Delaware River Port Authority for381more than 15 years, serving as senior outside counsel. Most382recently, I've served as deputy legal adviser at the U.S.383Department of State and previously as acting general counsel at384the U.S. Agency for International Development. These legal385roles, both in private practice and as an in-house attorney,386have shaped my evolution as a lawyer.387 The Office of Accountability and Whistleblower Protection388(OAWP) holds a statutorily mandated leadership and oversight389role under the VA Accountability and Whistleblower Protection390Act of 2017. Besides oversight and policy guidance to VA's391distinct administrations, the office, which I hope to lead, is392responsible for defined procedures for handling whistleblower393disclosures and senior leader misconduct.394 Running an organization with over 400,000 employees395delivering direct services to some 9 million veterans involves396one of the Federal Government's most demanding missions. Yet,397despite the unique challenges the VA faces, veterans,398taxpayers, and VA staff alike all deserve an accountability399office that functions with integrity, independence, and genuine400commitment to their interests.401 President Trump and Congress created this office in a402bipartisan fashion to protect veterans. As the President said403at the time, with the creation of this office, we are sending a404strong message. Those who fail our veterans will be held for405the first time, accountable. I undertake this pursuit with406great respect for OAWP's history of conducting investigations407and protecting whistleblowers. This opportunity represents408something more than a career step. It is something very409personal. My father and two oldest brothers were veterans, and410as I mentioned, my son will one day be a veteran. For this411reason alone, if confirmed, I commit to this Committee, to all412veterans and to all VA employees, that I will work relentlessly413and independently to continue to improve efficiency within414OAWP's operations and processes.415 As President Lincoln stated in his second inaugural address416near the end of the Civil War, ``the country's duty is to care417for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and418his orphan.'' These words are inscribed near the entrance to VA419headquarters. They are not a suggestion. They are a promise--420one that every function of this department, including OAWP,421exists to keep. I will pursue that mission zealously and422professionally.423 Finally, if confirmed, I will work in conjunction with this424Committee to continue to improve efficiency within OAWP's425operations and processes, and address all matters independently426with a commitment to accountability and transparency. Serving427and respecting our veterans is our country's most sacred428obligation. I'm grateful for this opportunity to appear before429you, and I welcome your questions.430431 [The prepared statement of Mr. Tierney appears on pages 69-43271 of the Appendix.]433434 Chairman Moran. Thank you, Mr. Tierney. In order to435compensate for my tardiness, I'll forego my questioning for436later and recognize Senator Blumenthal.437 Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you both438for being here. Thank you to your families, your spouses, and439each of you, I think, has three children. And they may be here440or watching. Let me begin, Mr. Tierney, do you have any441experience at the VA?442 Mr. Tierney. Thank you for that question, Senator. No, I443don't.444 Senator Blumenthal. The answer was no. Do you have any445experience working on behalf of whistleblowers?446 Mr. Tierney. I have worked with whistleblowers before,447Senator. Yes.448 Senator Blumenthal. In what way?449 Mr. Tierney. In my practice at a law firm, I had clients450who had whistleblower issues, who had much personnel misconduct451issues that had to be addressed.452 Senator Blumenthal. Did you represent the whistleblowers or453the company?454 Mr. Tierney. I represented the company.455 Senator Blumenthal. So, you were against the456whistleblowers?457 Mr. Tierney. We worked to support the whistleblowers, sir.458 Senator Blumenthal. You worked to support the459whistleblowers?460 Mr. Tierney. To make sure that they weren't retaliated461against by other senior employees.462 Senator Blumenthal. But you've never represented463whistleblowers, correct?464 Mr. Tierney. Only protecting them through my client's465representation.466 Senator Blumenthal. I note that you have served most467recently as deputy legal adviser at the Department of State.468You were also deputy acting general counsel at the U.S. Agency469for International Development, known as USAID. Was that during470the time that it was dismantled?471 Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator, for the question. I was472not involved in the changes at USAID as far as its size and473any----474 Senator Blumenthal. Did you serve in the agency during the475time that it was dismantled?476 Mr. Tierney. So, yes, that was a gradual long-term process,477but I--my role had nothing to do with dismantling USAID or478letting go any personnel or changing any policy.479 Senator Blumenthal. How did you feel about it being480dismantled?481 Mr. Tierney. You know, Senator, it wasn't part of my role.482I was just there really as managing partner of a small law483firm, making sure all the lawyers----484 Senator Blumenthal. You have no opinion.485 Mr. Tierney. It wasn't part of my role, Senator.486 Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Shatswell, let me ask you: you have487been at the VA for a period of time as a special advisor,488correct?489 Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir.490 Senator Blumenthal. Are you aware that the VA has lost,491whether firing or otherwise, 1,300 IT employees since the492Administration took office?493 Mr. Shatswell. I am aware that there were some exiting494employees, but that happened before I came, and I'm not into495the details of what happened.496 Senator Blumenthal. Well, you've been there since December497of last year, correct?498 Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir. December 1st.499 Senator Blumenthal. And you're saying no IT employees have500left in the last 7 months.501 Mr. Shatswell. Not that I'm aware of. I have not been502involved in any of the dismissal or----503 Senator Blumenthal. What were your duties there?504 Mr. Shatswell. I was an assistant special senior advisor,505excuse me, to the Secretary.506 Senator Blumenthal. Okay. But what was your area of507responsibility? What did you do?508 Mr. Shatswell. Thank you, Senator. It was a time of509learning. I visited hospitals, I visited clinics, cemeteries. I510met with senior leadership. Spent a good deal of time511understanding the different departments so that I could512understand the way that government works and the way that the513VA----514 Senator Blumenthal. Did you make any recommendations on IT?515 Mr. Shatswell. I had one presentation where, after some516time of envisioning and reviewing the technology, reviewing the517way that things operated. I had one briefing with Secretary518Collins. Yes, sir.519 Senator Blumenthal. Would you say that it's important to520restore the skilled and dedicated IT employees and their521positions that have left?522 Mr. Shatswell. Senator, I am not privy to the details of523the skill level or the staff details. My review was at a very524high level functional, like departmental review, but not at a525detail employee. So, I'm not aware of the individual job skills526that are needed.527 Senator Blumenthal. Well, but in general, wouldn't you528agree that it's important to provide more staffing to make IT529work better?530 Mr. Shatswell. Senator, thank you. I've met a lot of the531staff across the country. The IT staff and a good amount of532them are actual veterans that have transitioned into the VA.533That has been an amazing experience because the nature of these534people are dedicated, loyal, and they love serving. I do535believe that there is room for a pipeline of young fresh out of536college, hotshot smart kids that we can ramp into the VA, give537them an opportunity to serve their country and build the skill538level within the VA OIT.539 Senator Blumenthal. Well, may I suggest that, I would have540welcomed a response to the effect, yes, we need the skilled541staff that we have lost because the OIT function can't be542improved without it and we need to improve it. So, I hope that543will be an approach that you take, if and when you are544confirmed.545 My time has expired. I thank the Chairman for letting me go546ahead. And I apologize, I have another, as we often do, another547commitment that I'm going to have to attend. Thank you. Thanks,548Mr. Chairman.549 Chairman Moran. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal. Senator550Tillis.551552 HON. THOM TILLIS,553 U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA554555 Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Gentlemen, thank you556for being here, and congratulations on your nomination. I557intend to support your nominations or your confirmation. Mr.558Shatswell, am I pronouncing that right?559 Mr. Shatswell. Yes, Senator.560 Senator Tillis. I come from an IT experience. If you've561done any prep for this hearing, you know, my beef is the562bipartisan failure to really modernize the VA. I've been on563this Committee for going into my 12th year. I've seen very564capable secretaries of the VA, and I've seen some fairly565capable leaders in IT make an attempt, but they haven't made566discernible progress. What are we going to do? I mean, and if567you look at it from my perspective, having done enterprise IT568implementations, there's no way on earth that the scheduling569system should have taken the time and cost, what its cost, as570one example.571 And I think a part of that has to do with a lack of a572rationalization of what this organization looks like, needs to573look like. You've mentioned things about best practices. I've574heard all that word salad for 12 years here. What are you going575to try and do in your first 90 days, to prove to somebody like576me that you used to work in the same space, that you're going577to do something different, you're going to hold people578accountable?579 I've had discussions, for example, of why don't you get a580program office that includes Members on this Committee? They're581seeing the progress every day so that you've got champions here582behind an IT modernization effort. I've never really seen a583viable program office come out. They've had good consultants.584What's going to be different about you versus what has been585promised to me by Democrat and Republican nominees in the past?586What's the secret sauce? What are you bringing to the effort?587 Mr. Shatswell. Thank you, Senator, for the question.588There's a lot in what you just asked. So let me start with, I589think, to the point of a PMO office, a Program Management590Office, it is a necessary piece that does not exist at the591leadership level of OIT. That is a massive challenge, and I592understand that there have been attempts to implement that in593the past, and in those attempts, there has not been the594requisite tooling to ensure that the visibility and the process595was actually managed and the visibility was there through596dashboarding and those kinds of things. One of the first tasks597that I will be going after will be to implement a program598management office, if confirmed.599 Senator Tillis. Okay. Now, again, I think it would be600helpful for us to help you because that is roughly601approximately the answer I've gotten on five or six occasions602before this Committee. And I think the message here, I believe603that you have the capabilities to do it, but you have to have604executive sponsorship and the Secretary has to say, no, I'm605going to be the first Secretary in 12 years, who's actually606followed through on a viable program office that does the sort607of work to try and prioritize IT platforms initiatives, is held608accountable for the initial estimate, and for the end estimate,609on due dates, on resources, on deliverables.610 It is amazing how much money we are leaving on the floor by611doing this, in a bush league way, with one of the most large612consequential organizations in U.S. Government. So count me in613the remaining 214 days of my tenure, to help you stand up that614office. But I will tell you in this Committee, the thing I like615about this Committee and I will miss about it, is we're largely616bipartisan, and I think you're missing the opportunity by not617engaging Members on this Committee to be a part of that program618office so that they can report back to the Chair the good work619you're doing, and they can identify the obstacles that need to620be removed so that you can achieve the goals. I've made that621same commitment to Democratic and Republican people coming into622your position.623 I hope you'll be the first one to take me up on it, because624then I think you may end up being the first head of IT that625will actually make a discernible difference versus just barely626treading water and making progress around the edges. But, you627know, quite honestly, I've got to give them third quartile628results aggregate over the last 12 years. If you know anything629about the Gartner Magic Quadrant, on a good day, they're there630in quadrant number three. They're never going to get to upper631right, if we don't have good leadership there and buy in.632 And Mr. Tierney, I appreciate you. I know you've had a very633distinguished career. You've got to be doing this because your634heart's in it and you want to serve. It's certainly not because635the money's great. I look forward to supporting your636confirmation, too. Just very quickly, just tell me how you're637going to make whistleblowing something that is great, that638people should do to keep everybody at every level of the639organization accountable, very quickly. I know I've just gone640over time.641 Mr. Tierney. Sure. Thank you, Senator, for your question.642Whistleblowing is clearly the primary role and point of this643role. And I think as a first step, employees must feel644comfortable and secure in reporting on bad conduct or645misconduct. Without the report, there's no investigation to646monitor and control.647 How I would do that is, some of the current things going648on. I know there's education, there's training, there's649mandatory internet training. But I think messaging is very650important. And coming down from leadership, if confirmed, I651would work with other senior leaders at VA, career leaders, and652learn and educate myself about how's the process working? How653do we know people are comfortable reporting?654 I noticed over the last several years the reports have655doubled approximately. You could say that's a good thing656because maybe more people are feeling comfortable reporting.657You could also say maybe it's not a good thing if there's more658bad conduct going on. So that's something I would want to659educate myself on and learn more about. If confirmed to be in660there, to be able to learn about some information that661obviously was, is confidential. At this point, I don't have662access to.663 Senator Tillis. Thank you.664 Chairman Moran. Senator Hassan.665666 HON. MARGARET WOOD HASSAN,667 U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE668669 Senator Hassan. Senator. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and good670afternoon to you both. Congratulations to you and your families671for your nominations, and for your willingness to serve. I'm672going to start with a question to both of you that I ask now of673all nominees. If directed by the President to take action that674would break the law, would you follow the law or the675President's directive, Mr. Shatswell?676 Mr. Shatswell. I don't believe the President would do that,677ma'am. But, yes, I would follow the law.678 Senator Hassan. Mr. Tierney?679 Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator, for that question. I680similarly don't expect the President to give such a directive,681but if he did, I will 100 percent always follow the law and682ethics.683 Senator Hassan. Well, I appreciate your commitment to the684law. I will say that we are in a war that was illegally685initiated by this President, and he has refused to follow the686law in that regard. He has just appointed somebody as Acting687DNI who has no intelligence experience, even though the law688clearly says that the DNI has to have such a superior689experience. And on the symbolic front, the law is very clear690that he did not have the right to put his name up on the691Kennedy Center. And a court has just ruled that he broke the692law in doing that. So, I am concerned that you all, started693your answer with saying that you don't expect the President,694this President, to break the law.695 Now, Mr. Tierney, if you're confirmed, you will be696responsible for, among other things, investigating allegations697of whistleblower retaliation as well as receiving and698investigating allegations of misconduct, retaliation or poor699performance involving senior VA employees. The Trump700administration has retaliated against federal employees it has701disagreed with. These are well publicized events, and you've702been working, as, in your own words, an in-house attorney for703this Administration. So on the one hand, you've been working704for this Administration while it has actively and publicly705retaliated against whistleblowers.706 So, if you're confirmed, how are you going to ensure that707allegations brought to your office are properly investigated,708and the VA employees are protected from retaliation, and that709people have the confidence that if they bring a complaint to710your office, that they will not be retaliated against?711 Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator, that's a great question.712If confirmed, I would do everything I can to make sure that all713VA employees feel comfortable and secure in reporting bad714conduct. Without the report, we cannot conduct an investigation715and even analyze the benefits or not of the investigation or716the quality of investigation. So how do we do that? I know717currently there are different programs like education,718training, mandatory tests, but I would do more than that. And719really the messaging I think is important that it comes down720from leadership that, this is our role, right?721 Senator Hassan. I appreciate and understand that as I722appreciated your answer to Senator Tillis. But, look, the723leader in chief retaliates against people all the time, is very724public that he sees his role as President or that he has the725option as President of the United States for retaliating726against people, including whistleblowers. So, given that he is727the leader here who sends the most dominating message, how are728you going to counteract that?729 Mr. Tierney. Well, Senator, you know, I believe or730understand that I report to the Secretary and to this731Committee. And again, the role, by definition, is to make sure732employees feel comfortable whistleblowing, reporting on bad733conduct and safe that they're not going to be retaliated734against. And I would do everything to make sure that messaging735is loud and clear and that is what employees are hearing.736 Senator Hassan. Well, I hope you will consider just what737the counter messaging from the top is like, and really be738thoughtful about how, within the VA, you can really support739whistleblowers. New Hampshire and its Manchester VA had a740series of whistleblower events now about a decade ago, and they741were very, very difficult for the whistleblowers involved. The742whistleblowers actually, their actions, I think, made the743Manchester VA a better place ultimately because they reported744things that really needed to be reported. But you are going to745have your work cut out for you, given the messaging from the746White House.747 Mr. Shatswell, if you're confirmed, you'll be in charge of748information and technology at the VA. One area that I've been749interested in is updating the VA's scheduling capabilities. I750think you know a little bit about the bill, especially the751technology behind those capabilities. Right now, veterans, for752instance, can't do all their scheduling all at once on one753platform. So, it's phone calls, or internet access to754scheduling platforms kind of one at a time. And by the time you755schedule one visit with one specialist, and then you get to the756next one that day may have, you know, similar appointments on757the same day, may no longer be available.758 So, Senator Boozman and I have a bill that would require759the VA to create a self-service scheduling platform that would760allow veterans to book their VA appointments, all in one easy761location. Our bill passed the Senate last year, and we're762working to hopefully get it passed through the House and signed763into law. If our bill becomes law, will you commit to working764with my office to implement it and set up an easy, reliable765platform that veterans can use to schedule all their VA766appointments?767 Mr. Shatswell. Yes.768 Senator Hassan. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.769 Chairman Moran. I'm going to call on Senator Sheehy next.770But, Senator King, you are ineligible to speak about technology771until you learn how to turn off your phone.772 [Laughter.]773774 HON. TIM SHEEHY,775 U.S. SENATOR FROM MONTANA776777 Senator Sheehy. Well, Good afternoon, guys. Congratulations778on your appointments. And so, Mr. Shatswell, you have a lot of779IT experience, obviously. And, you know, we've been looking at780ways that, our care access, whether it's community care or781direct clinical care, can be provided more rapidly. And make782sure that when those diagnoses are made and when those783appointments are referred, it happens in a timely manner,784doesn't turn into weeks and months of waiting and kind of that785administrative do loop that happens.786 So, is there a technological reason why the VA could not787assess at the time that the veterans request for care or788specialty referral is entered in the system, that a VA facility789can't provide the requested care within the typical access790standard and frankly, abide by the law, which requires, you791know, that treatment to be given in a certain period of time?792 Mr. Shatswell. Thank you, Senator, for the question. The793answer to that is not a fast answer, but I'll take a swing at794it. When you look at the data that the VA has, it starts with795the DoW, and the data flows into the VA a little before796transition, with some after transition. That data is one way.797Then that data goes into systems and there are literally798hundreds of databases. Those hundreds of databases make a very799complex environment where data is enriched all over the place,800with one way data feeds that makes it extremely difficult to801find the connections and do what you're asking about.802 One of the areas of modernizing the VA that I believe we803need to focus on, I spoke with you, Senator King, about this,804is we need an enterprise data platform. We need an enterprise805data exchange where there's one place for the Warfighter Golden806Record, where all of that data is contained. And it's the one807system of record that everything points to. So, that those808kinds of moments, like scheduling, as Senator Hassan said,809becomes simple. It becomes an easy problem to solve. Right now,810we have 14 scheduling solutions that I'm aware of. That's just811unacceptable.812 Senator Sheehy. Yes. And I mean, from the health record813perspective, I mean, that should become part of discharge.814Like, we can't discharge a person from active duty until their815health records have been transferred and received by VHA. So816that's happened in addition to the disability benefits exam.817But I think more specifically there, like if a referral enters818the system on day one.819 So, we're not talking active-duty transition. Someone's out820there, a veteran. They go into their CBOC to get their821specialty care. The referral happens on day one. Is there a822reason why in the current system that we have or system of823systems, why when that referral happens, it can take days,824weeks, or months for that referral to make its way through the825system?826 I mean, is this a community care access problem? Is this an827administrative issue or is this a technology issue with our IT828systems that these referrals get lost in the ones and zero land829forever? And sometimes, it's weeks or months before referrals830approved?831 Mr. Shatswell. Thank you, Senator. I think that the root of832the issue is that there isn't one system. There are many833systems, and they don't talk to each other. So, there is a lot834of work to build those bridges and to make the data flow. That835problem has to be solved in order to make what you're asking836for a reality.837 Senator Sheehy. Yes. Well, it's going to be, I would hope838it becomes a reductionist enterprise instead of adding more839layers. Because what government does is when we want to solve a840problem, we add more layers on top, and what we need to do is841reduce that. We need to distill the system down to a minimal842amount, hopefully one singular system that actually works843instead of just layering more, you know, repaving over the same844road over and over again. And we're not actually fixing the845pothole; we're just paving over it.846 Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir. One of my favorite things is847turning things off. So, my goal would be to turn off as many848things as possible and reduce the complexity. You also have a849significant risk with a large cybersecurity and privacy850perimeter. When you have hundreds of databases, if you can851reduce them to a single one or reduce the number, it's much,852much easier to protect. So, there's a lot of reasons, saving853money, there's a lot of reasons why it makes sense for us to do854that, sir.855 Senator Sheehy. Mr. Tierney, your community care. So, I'm a856huge advocate for community care, it hasn't always been the857most popular with the staff at the VA. But I think especially858in a state like Montana where we're a huge state with not many859people, some veterans could have a 7-hour drive to the VA860clinic. So, community care is a key part of the fabric of VA861care in Montana. We need to make sure those open lines of862communication so that when community care is not being863utilized, community care is being intentionally sidelined864nationally. You know, those complaints, those reports are865rapidly collated and acted on.866 And, you know, what can you do to assure me that as those867whistleblower complaints or those reports come in, you know,868they're not getting sidelined? They're getting prioritized and869acted on because community care, as we see a provider shortage870in all categories around American community care, it's going to871be critical here for our veterans.872 Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator. And if I may briefly, I873recognize your Naval Academy attendance. My son behind me is a874rising second-class midshipman. And former superintendent Tom875Lynch is here with me today, too, and I thank him for that.876 Senator Sheehy. There he is. I see him right there. Yes.877Hey, Tom. How are you, Admiral?878 Mr. Tierney. Community care is very important, and I've879been researching and planning for this potential role, if880confirmed. I have heard that from others as well. Obviously,881some states are much more rural than others. And if confirmed,882I would talk to the people who are responsible for those areas883and educate myself as to what's happening and how can we make884it better. Things like distance, the service level of care. So,885I would definitely look into that and talk to the people who886know how it works. Talk to this Committee and see what can we887do better and different? But 100 percent independence is the888key to this role, and I'll be completely independent and non-889partisan on all issues and I appreciate you bringing that one890up.891 Senator Sheehy. Great. Well, thanks for your time today,892gentlemen. It's a key time for the VA to modernize and fix a893lot of problems that have been alluded to that have been894bothering us for a long time. So let's stop kicking the can and895get it done. Thanks.896 Chairman Moran. Senator King.897898 HON. ANGUS S. KING, JR.,899 U.S. SENATOR FROM MAINE900901 Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I apologize to902everyone for the phone ringing. That's--I can think of worse903times to have that happen, but not right offhand, in a hearing904is pretty bad. Mr. Shatswell, just to be clear, your remit does905not include the electronic medical records project. Is that906correct?907 Mr. Shatswell. Yes, that is correct. Senator King.908 Senator King. Has that got its own office and own909leadership? Is that the way it's set up?910 Mr. Shatswell. Yes. I believe the confusion is that911currently, Deputy Secretary Lawrence, is wearing two hats as912the deputy and the acting CIO. So, it's gotten a little913conflated. And when, if confirmed, I step into that role of the914CIO, yes, it stays with him.915 Senator King. Electronic medical records is somebody else's916problem----917 Mr. Shatswell. Dr. Neil Evans, correct.918 Senator King. Thank you. I'm going to charge you with919making your job even more complicated. And that's dealing with920the Grand Canyon between the Defense Department and the VA and921how to coordinate systems in that way so that the veteran922doesn't get lost, doesn't get dropped. Is that a project that923is worth pursuing in your mind?924 Mr. Shatswell. One hundred percent. I believe that there is925a lot that we can do there to improve service to active duty926and veterans. Yes.927 Senator King. And I would hope that you would learn who928your counterparts were in the department so that, that kind of929activity could begin.930 Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir. As well as Senators like yourself931that can help to bridge the gaps.932 Senator King. I'll do what I can. Mr. Tierney, I'm worried933about sort of counter currents going on here. One is934whistleblower protection, which you've talked about, and935investigating claims and protecting whistleblowers. And yet at936the same time last year, it was reported that the VA was937requiring their employees to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement938(NDA) that did not include the legally required exclusion939language for whistleblowers. Are you aware of that situation?940 Mr. Tierney. Thank you. Senator, I have read reports about941that.942 Senator King. Well, I would hope that if there's another--943the OPM, just in the last week or so has talked about new944whistleblower, I'm sorry, new non-disclosure agreements945throughout the Federal Government. Have you reviewed the946language that's being proposed?947 Mr. Tierney. I have not, Senator King, but I will 100948percent say that NDAs and whistleblower activity have no role949together. People, employees must feel 100 percent comfortable950that they are not going to be restricted in reporting on bad951conduct.952 Senator King. Well, I would hope as the legal counsel in953this situation, that you would inform whoever's setting up954these NDAs that that language must be in there that says, this955does not include whistleblower complaints and the protections956are left intact. Will you commit to me that you'll do that?957 Mr. Tierney. Yes, Senator. And it's also on OAWP's website.958It's very clear that any whistleblower statute overrides any959type of NDA language, and I agree with that. There's no role960for NDAs and whistleblower.961 Senator King. I agree, thank you. I'm a little concerned.962You were general counsel to USAID in the State Department? Was963that your job title?964 Mr. Tierney. I was acting general counsel at USAID. I'm965deputy legal advisor at State, which is another way to say966deputy general counsel.967 Senator King. And just to clarify, were you in that968position when Elon Musk fed USAID into the wood chipper?969 Mr. Tierney. No, sir, I was not.970 Senator King. You were not there during that period?971 Mr. Tierney. I was not.972 Senator King. Is it legal for the Executive to abolish a973statutorily established agency unilaterally?974 Mr. Tierney. Senator, I appreciate the question, but I975really have not researched that legal issue, and I really976wouldn't be able to comment on that.977 Senator King. You've read the Constitution. You know, the978law that Congress establishes the Executive branch agencies.979You don't have an opinion on whether the Executive can just980say, well, we don't--we no longer believe we need a USAID, or a981Department of Labor, or whatever. You don't think that you982don't have an opinion on that?983 Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator. Yes. I just am not984familiar with the laws governing that type of issue. I've never985had to research it. I never have. So----986 Senator King. And finally, you mentioned the word987``independently'' several times. What do you mean by the use of988that term?989 Mr. Tierney. Well, sir, Senator, some of the questions from990both Committees have centered on, you know, if there's any991influence or improper influence. And I just want to be clear992that that's not acceptable. It's not appropriate in this role.993This role is about independence, transparency, and quality of994an investigation and responsiveness and timeliness.995 Senator King. So you would act independently, even if the996whistleblower complaint was uncomfortable to the Secretary or997to the President. Is that correct?998 Mr. Tierney. I would give the Secretary my recommendation999regardless of what his response may be. I--that's my job is to1000report to him what our investigation finds.1001 Senator King. Well, I just I appreciate those answers. The1002whistleblower function is very important in counterintuitive1003that we're enabling people to bring complaints against their1004superiors in many cases. And that's why the position that you1005have is so important, not only to protect those individuals,1006but to make the government function better. That's the whole1007idea here. So, I take you at your word that independence is1008going to be part of your job, and that you're going to protect1009those whistleblowers, even if their activities have displeased1010their superiors and perhaps your superiors.1011 Mr. Tierney. Senator, no role is above accountability, in1012my opinion. Whether, regardless of how senior that role is.1013OAWP is here to protect all veterans, regardless of the1014seniority level of the subject at the time.1015 Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1016 Chairman Moran. Thank you. Mr. Shatswell, since assuming1017the senior advisor role in December, have you used that1018opportunity to assess the circumstances, the current state of1019affairs at the Office of Information and Technology?1020 Mr. Shatswell. To some degree, I would say very opaquely.1021From a senior leadership level, I have reviewed the structure1022of the organization. I have had the opportunity to travel and1023to see some of the technology working in the different1024locations, the VISNs, the Sim lab down in Orlando. So, I've had1025the opportunity to assess it from that level. Yes.1026 Chairman Moran. I would think it might be a circumstance in1027which you get the legal pad out and yellow pages, and you just1028start writing one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.1029These are the problems and these are my ideas. Have you1030analyzed what your first step, day one and thereafter, would be1031in this role?1032 Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir. As you can imagine, it's a target-1033rich environment. There's a lot to fix. There's a lot that can1034be very distracting, and so as I have had the opportunity and1035this time of envisioning, I've kind of broken it up into two1036categories. One, we'll call it organizational and the other1037more on the technical side. On the organizational side, there1038is a significant need for a proper program management office. I1039call it a program or portfolio value office, because at the end1040of the day, we need to be driving the right value to the1041veterans. And that's the focus of everything that we should be1042doing at OIT.1043 So how do we do that? Getting into an agile scrum process,1044which is a process management style, that we will properly tool1045and train throughout the org., if confirmed. That will drive1046accountability at the individual worker level. It will drive1047visibility at the stakeholder level so that everyone knows1048what's going on and what's the status and the priority of their1049piece within the work that OIT is doing. So, eyes wide open,1050anybody can see it. It's not a mystery. That's what we would be1051driving toward.1052 Chairman Moran. Have you yet talked to people within the1053OIT that work there today, work with you at the VA today and1054ask them their views on what's missing? Senator Tillis and1055Senator Sheehy both indicated the magnitude of the problems.1056We've heard them for a long time. Senator Tillis, in1057particular, talked about nothing seems to change. So, I'm1058looking for this. I'm the guy who's going to make things1059change. And here's what I know that needs to be done and I'm1060going to hit the ground running. Can you assure me that you1061have done that and are that person?1062 Mr. Shatswell. One thousand percent Senator. That has been1063my career experience for the last 30 plus years of executive1064technology management. That's what I do. I fix problems. I love1065the gnarly ones, the ones that are really hard, the ones that1066are really tough. I love the puzzles because I like to effect1067change.1068 Chairman Moran. If that's true, you're going to love this1069job.1070 [Laughter.]1071 Mr. Shatswell. Yes, sir.1072 Chairman Moran. Let me ask Mr. Shatswell. Again, I'm1073intrigued by you being a senior adviser to the Secretary. I'm1074intrigued not because of you personally, but it's been the role1075that so many people have been in who come before our Committee1076seeking their--they've received a nomination seeking our1077agreement with that nomination and confirmation. How many1078people are senior advisors to the Secretary of the Department1079of Veterans Affairs?1080 Mr. Shatswell. Sir, I'm sorry, I don't have a number. I1081don't know the number.1082 Chairman Moran. Is it two, or three, or is it dozens?1083 Mr. Shatswell. No, I don't believe it's dozens. It's a1084handful, I believe.1085 Chairman Moran. How did you become a senior advisor?1086 Mr. Shatswell. I was--I was working for Unilever. I was1087approached with the opportunity to come and be a senior advisor1088within, I believe it was three weeks. I was here----1089 Chairman Moran. Approached by the Secretary?1090 Mr. Shatswell. No, from the White House. White House1091liaison.1092 Chairman Moran. And was that the suggestion that if you1093became a senior advisor that there might be a role for you to1094play at the VA beyond being a senior advisor?1095 Mr. Shatswell. That was a possibility, sir.1096 Chairman Moran. And is that the Administration's, does it1097seem to you that's the Administration's training ground for1098individuals that they may want to place within the Department?1099Come, be the senior advisor let us evaluate you and make a1100determination whether there's a role for you to play in a more1101permanent way at the VA?1102 Mr. Shatswell. I can tell you my experience that was the1103way that it was. Beyond that, I don't have the experience to1104know what that would look like for other folks.1105 Chairman Moran. And as a senior adviser at the Department1106of Veterans Affairs, do you advise the Secretary like daily,1107weekly, monthly? Is it an ongoing thing or you're really there1108learning about the Department of Veterans Affairs and preparing1109for a future position?1110 Mr. Shatswell. A little bit of both. I was absolutely1111there, meeting with the Secretary on a couple of occasions to1112provide advice and suggestions into what I was learning and the1113ideations from that, with the opportunity to sit in on meetings1114and meet the senior leadership and understand the way that the1115VA works.1116 Chairman Moran. And the advice that you were asked to1117provide to the Secretary was related to the job that you're now1118being considered for?1119 Mr. Shatswell. No, sir. It was a broader. Looking at--my1120background, Senator Moran is, I've been over marketing, I've1121been over finance, I've been over renovation, I've been in1122technology, so the breadth of my background was bringing all of1123that into play, to evaluate everything that was going on. And1124with my lens coming in as an industry person, not as a1125government person, gives a unique perspective to the problems1126that often, I would say, suffer from shortsightedness because1127often decisions are made from a political standpoint and not a1128long-term true North plan. And so, from my perspective, I'm1129working to develop what would be that long-term plan so that we1130have a true North over multiple administrations in the future.1131 Chairman Moran. I'll now turn to Mr. Tierney. OAWP is1132responsible for tracking the VA's compliance with1133recommendations from the inspector general, the VA's medical1134inspector, the Office of Special Counsel and the GAO, the1135Government Accounting Office. So that's in addition to the1136whistleblower aspect that we've mostly been talking about1137today. Do you have a view about the role that those entities1138play in improving the services and capabilities, the quality of1139work performed at the Department of Veterans Affairs?1140 Mr. Tierney. Thank you, Senator Moran, for that question.1141Yes, you know, I've read and understand that OAWP, OSC, and OIG1142have an interplay between the three groups as far as handling1143misconduct and, as far as doing these reports, as you say. And1144I would work cooperatively with both of those other sub-1145agencies on making sure that all of our reporting is accurate,1146timely, and in the right hands of the right person.1147 Chairman Moran. Mr. Tierney, I would indicate that while I1148can only speak for myself, but I have enough experience with1149the Members of this Committee to have a sense, and it's1150certainly my sense that this Committee pays a lot of attention1151to the Inspector General, the GAO. We consider their reports1152serious and significant. We expect them to be abided by, and if1153not, we expect an explanation for why what they're recommending1154is not accomplishable or shouldn't be accomplished; they're1155making a mistake.1156 I don't know that there's a question in that, but I want1157you, if confirmed, to take--maybe the question is, I want you1158to confirm that you will take those recommendations by those1159other agencies seriously, and with an understanding that there1160is an expectation, at least on my part, and I think most, if1161not all Members of this Committee, that we would see decisions1162made at the VA that reflect what the, what those agencies, what1163those entities have recommended. Anything that troubles you1164with that circumstance?1165 Mr. Tierney. No, Senator, not at all. I completely agree.1166That's a key role of the Assistant Secretary responsibility.1167 Chairman Moran. And I would tell you that they're not1168always followed quickly and not always followed, period. And, I1169would indicate to you that in communicating with, particularly1170the staff of this Committee, but the members as well, it would1171be useful for us to know that you find an objection to a1172recommendation by the IG or the GAO, particularly the IG, that1173you ought to let us know. And, I assume that's compatible with1174the way you operate.1175 Mr. Tierney. Yes, sir.1176 Chairman Moran. Along that line, let me ask you to commit1177to providing this Committee with briefings on a quarterly basis1178on OAWP's trends, your accomplishments, the ongoing priorities,1179including case processing times and disciplinary actions taken.1180Is that satisfactory?1181 Mr. Tierney. Yes, Senator. Absolutely.1182 Chairman Moran. And I would ask you, Mr. Shatswell, a1183really similar question to that. I'd like for you to commit to1184providing the Committee with briefings on a quarterly basis, at1185least, on OIT trends, accomplishments, ongoing priorities to1186include workforce changes, cybersecurity threats, and major1187modernization projects. Is that acceptable to you?1188 Mr. Shatswell. Yes, Senator. I would hope it would be much1189more frequent than that.1190 Chairman Moran. While Senator Tillis volunteered to serve1191on a committee to give you advice on how to fix the department,1192I would stay, I would refrain from me volunteering to join you1193in that effort, but I want to know what you're doing and how1194it's going and what help you need from us. And what's the1195missing link in finally accomplishing the things that Members1196around this table have indicated are important to get the VA1197quote ``once and for all'' in a position that needs to be in1198regard to IT.1199 Mr. Shatswell. You have my commitment to that, sir.1200 Chairman Moran. Senator King.1201 Senator King. A quick follow up. Mr. Tierney, during the1202nomination process, did anyone indicate to you that there was1203an intention to weaken or eliminate OAWP?1204 Mr. Tierney. No, Senator.1205 Senator King. No, no discussion of that?1206 Mr. Tierney. Not at all.1207 Senator King. Would you resist and support the office, as1208its director, if there were efforts made to cut staff or reduce1209the efficacy of the office?1210 Mr. Tierney. Senator King, I believe the office has an1211important role in within VA. As far as staff, obviously, I1212don't have visibility into the function yet, but if confirmed,1213I would analyze that and see if we need more people, need less1214people. I just don't have an eye into that yet, sir.1215 Senator King. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1216 Chairman Moran. Senator Sheehy, anything?1217 Senator Sheehy. [Off-mic].1218 Chairman Moran. Thank you both for being here today. We're1219going to conclude this hearing. And there may be questions that1220we, this Committee, that staff want to ask you. They'll be1221submitted to you in writing, and we would expect a timely1222response from you. We have the leverage of holding your1223confirmation until we get the answers to our questions.1224 Chairman Moran. But let me ask either one of you, which is1225my usual practice, is there something that you said that you1226wish you hadn't or that you would like to say that you weren't1227given the opportunity to say, having heard our questions and1228now see the totality of the hearing? Are you satisfied with1229where you are?1230 Mr. Tierney. I am, Senator.1231 Chairman Moran. Thank you.1232 Mr. Shatswell. Yes, Senator. Thank you.1233 Chairman Moran. Thank you both very much. With that, the1234hearing is adjourned.1235 [Whereupon, at 5:22 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]12361237 A P P E N D I X12381239 Opening Statement12401241[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]12421243 Nomination Material for12441245 GARY SHATSWELL12461247[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]12481249 Nomination Material for12501251 MICHAEL TIERNEY12521253[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]12541255 [all]