Hearings to examine the testimony of Anthony Fauci.

1[Senate Hearing 119-504]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                                                     S. Hrg. 119-50456                       TESTIMONY OF ANTHONY FAUCI7=======================================================================89                                HEARING1011                               BEFORE THE1213                              COMMITTEE ON14                          HOMELAND SECURITY AND15                           GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS16                           UNITED STATES SENATE1718                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS1920                             SECOND SESSION2122                               ----------2324                             JULY 29, 20262526                               ----------2728        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov2930                       Printed for the use of the31        Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs3233[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3435                     U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE3664-382 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 202637=======================================================================3839        COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS4041                     RAND PAUL, Kentucky, Chairman42RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin               GARY C. PETERS, Michigan43JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma             MAGGIE WOOD HASSAN, New Hampshire44RICK SCOTT, Florida                  RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut45JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri                JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania46BERNIE MORENO, Ohio                  ANDY KIM, New Jersey47JONI ERNST, Iowa                     RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona48ASHLEY MOODY, Florida                ELISSA SLOTKIN, Michigan4950                William E. Henderson III, Staff Director51     Christina N. Salazar, Deputy Staff Director and Chief Counsel52           Megan M. Krynen, Senior Professional Staff Member53                   Harry Kazenoff, Assistant Counsel54                 David L. Albright, Research Assistant55               J. Ryan Arient, Professional Staff Member56              Dalton W. Barnett, Junior Research Assistant57                  Maximilian C. Diehl, Committee Aide58              Rachel S. Emmons, Professional Staff Member59                  Paulina Garmute, Research Assistant60                       Adam Hinz, Committee Aide61              Kilian R. Laverty, Professional Staff Member62                    Joseph A. Martin, Committee Aide63                    Andrew T. Yount, Committee Aide64            Christopher J. Mulkins, Minority Staff Director65    Alan S. Kahn, Minority Deputy Staff Director and General Counsel66          Claudine J. Brenner, Minority Deputy General Counsel67       Sapana R. Vora, Minority Senior Professional Staff Member68             Kevin G. McAloon, Minority Senior Investigator69                     Laura W. Kilbride, Chief Clerk70                   Ashley A. Gonzalez, Records Clerk7172                            C O N T E N T S7374                                 ------75Opening statements:76                                                                   Page77    Senator Paul.................................................     178    Senator Peters...............................................     579    Senator Johnson..............................................    1580    Senator Hassan...............................................    1881    Senator Lankford.............................................    2082    Senator Blumenthal...........................................    2383    Senator Scott................................................    2584    Senator Kim..................................................    2985    Senator Hawley...............................................    3086    Senator Fetterman............................................    3487    Senator Moreno...............................................    3488    Senator Ernst................................................    3789    Senator Moody................................................    4090Prepared statements:91    Senator Paul.................................................    5592    Senator Peters...............................................    609394                                WITNESS95                        WEDNESDAY, JULY 29, 20269697Anthony Fauci, M.D., Former Director (1984-2022) National98  Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, National99  Institutes of Health, U.S. Department of Health and Human100  Services.......................................................     7101102                                APPENDIX103104Senator Paul's chart.............................................    63105Senator Johnson's Drug Adverse Event Comparison chart............    64106Senator Hawley's charts..........................................    65107Senator Ernst chart..............................................    70108Senator Moody's chart............................................    72109Red Folder Contents..............................................    73110DOE Letters......................................................    94111CIA Transfer Documents...........................................    96112Haslam & Howard statement........................................   114113Senator Peters letter to Senator Paul............................   124114HSGAC Staff Report...............................................   128115Minority Hearing Memo............................................   370116Minority Hearing Memo Supplemental...............................   391117FactCheck.org Article............................................   441118Full Measure Article.............................................   462119Dr. Fauci Diary Entry............................................   477120NIH FOIA Case....................................................   480121Neuropathic Symptoms Study.......................................   555122Additional Medical Studies.......................................   577123Schertler statement..............................................  1230124Schertler letter.................................................  1232125International Assessment Report..................................  1241126Senator Scott's Exhibits.........................................  1246127128                       TESTIMONY OF ANTHONY FAUCI129130                              ----------131132                        WEDNESDAY, JULY 29, 2026133134                                     U.S. Senate,135                           Committee on Homeland Security136                                  and Governmental Affairs,137                                                    Washington, DC.138    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 8:30 a.m., in139room SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Rand Paul,140Chairman of the Committee, presiding.141    Present: Senators Paul [presiding], Johnson, Lankford,142Scott, Hawley, Moreno, Ernst, Moody, Peters, Hassan,143Blumenthal, Fetterman, and Kim.144145              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PAUL\1\146147    Chairman Paul. The Committee will now come to order.148---------------------------------------------------------------------------149    \1\ The prepared statement of Senator Paul appears in the Appendix150on page 55.151---------------------------------------------------------------------------152    One million Americans died from the Coronavirus Disease1532019 (COVID-19). Some estimate as many as 15 million people154died worldwide from COVID-19. Publicly, Anthony Fauci promoted155the theory that the virus arose naturally, while privately he156was well aware of a mountain of evidence suggesting the virus157originated in a lab.158    The American people deserve answers. The American people159deserve to know why dangerous research was funded by the160National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID)161in a totalitarian country, in a lab that lacked acceptable162safety standards. The decision to fund dangerous gain-of-163function (GoF) research in Wuhan, China, will likely go down in164history as perhaps one of the worst public health decisions.165Frankly, the American people deserve an apology.166    I hope today Dr. Fauci will come clean, admit it was a167mistake to fund dangerous research in China, admit that the168risks of this dangerous research exceeded any possible169benefits, ask forgiveness, and pledge to help our government170devise safeguards so a manmade epidemic never happens again.171    Instead of an apology, you have for years avoided172responsibility. Regarding the lockdowns, you argue that you did173not personally issue every lockdown order, close every school,174or impose every mandate. But officials across the country175invoked your authority to justify these decisions, and you176presented your recommendations not as judgments open to debate177but as dictates of science itself.178    Your own words demonstrate that you understood the179influence you exercised. On March 14, 2020, you wrote that the180task force recommendations were ``driven by me, yourself, Deb,181and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention182(CDC)''. The next day you wrote that you had ``convinced''183Mayor Bill de Blasio to close the New York City schools, so you184were involved. That same night, Governor Gavin Newsom's chief185of staff told you that the Governor had decided to close186California schools, bars, and restaurants after watching you on187television. Presidents, Governors, mayors, school boards,188corporations, and Congress all bear responsibility for the189decisions they made.190    The COVID lockdown, however, could never have been191inflicted without you aiding and abetting the crime. Children192lost years of education. Small businesses built over a lifetime193disappeared. Patients delayed cancer screenings and other194medical care. Families were separated from dying relatives.195Workers were ordered to accept a medical procedure or lose196their jobs. Worship assembly, employment, education, and travel197were restricted in the name of science. While you did not198impose every restriction, you used your public authority to199justify them.200    While you concluded publicly that COVID occurred naturally,201your private record tells a different story. In early 2020,202your handpicked virologist warned that the virus appeared to203have been manipulated in the lab. In a conference call204concerning the origin of the virus, all but two of the205participants believed deliberate insertion was possible.206    Your concern was not merely theoretical. That same week you207led an urgent effort to determine whether your own agency had208funded the research related to these experiments that were now209under suspicion. Hours later your assistant reported that the210Wuhan experiments had, indeed, been reviewed and approved by211the National Institutes of Health (NIH). Those were not the212actions of officials who believed that a research related to213origin was an absurd conspiracy theory. They were the actions214of officials urgently trying to determine whether their agency215funding was connected to the research under discussion,216connected to the pandemic.217    You could not hide that your agency had funded the Wuhan218research or your long history of defending gain-of-function219research. The only alternative left was to argue that COVID-19220did not originate in the Wuhan lab. You were not a detached221observer. You had an institutional interest in the public222believing that federally funded research had nothing to do with223the pandemic. It was a conflict of interest from the very224beginning.225    The authors of the ``Proximal Origin of SARS-CoV-2''226privately had serious doubts about a natural origin. Within227days, though, they flipped, and they all wrote in Proximal228Origin that the virus was almost certainly not a laboratory229construct. That paper was then used by the government and the230media and you to discredit Americans who were asking the same231questions that you and the authors were asking yourselves232privately.233    You even cited Proximal Origin from the White House podium.234You held it out as evidence that the virus could not have been235engineered. But you didn't disclose your role and the236discussions that proceeded the writing of the paper. You did237not disclose the authors' original concerns. You did not238concern. You did not reveal that you had been part of the239paper, that you had read and offered editorial comments on the240paper before it was published, before you began using it as241evidence that it could not have originated in the lab. You did242not disclose that you had immediately investigated yourself,243whether NIAID funding might be connected to the research. You244did not tell the American people the full story.245    Duly released private messages indicate that the doubts246with the authors and others didn't disappear after the247publication. While this was being waved at the White House to248show that it couldn't come from the lab, the authors were still249privately continuing to assign a meaningful probability to a250laboratory origin, one thing in public and another in private.251    Some of the same scientists discussed avoiding email and252carefully managing communications that might eventually be253obtained under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). The254pattern is straightforward. Privately there was alarm, then an255immediate inquiry to see if NIAID's possible exposure to256funding, then a rapid public declaration of certainty,257continued private doubt, and then years of resistance to258disclosure. The question is why? The only logical answer is259that your primary concern was avoiding culpability. Your260primary concern was hiding the fact that you had approved the261funding for this dangerous research.262    Your support of gain-of-function research is extensive and263longstanding. In 2011, your agency funded Ron Fouchier's264laboratory when it mutated the avian flu until it could spread265through the air between mammals. This was the tipping point.266This was when others became worried. You funded this. You267advocated for this. The Federal Government's own Biosecurity268Board, though, recommended withholding the details of these269experiments because of the danger the research posed. People270were concerned that publishing it was publishing a roadmap to271creating bioweapons around the world.272    But you sided with the gain-of-function scientist Fouchier273and argued that the benefits of publishing the research far274outweighed the risks. You defended this avian flu275transmissibility experiments as critical research. You wrote276that even if a scientist became infected and triggered a277pandemic, the benefits of the gain-of-function experiments278outweighed the risks.279    In 2014, your agency, NIAID, began funding the Wuhan bat280coronavirus work. In 2015, Ralph Baric and the Chinese281scientist Shi Zhengli published NIAID-supported research282combining a bat coronavirus spike protein with a Severe Acute283Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) backbone. The resulting virus could284infect human airway cells. It is a novel virus that now can285infect human cells. It gained transmissibility. It gained286function.287    In 2018, the same group of scientists, EcoHealth, Baric,288Shi, and their collaborators submitted the DEFUSE proposal,289which involved the insertion of a furin cleavage site into the290coronavirus. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA)291rejected it as too dangerous. When COVID was sequenced, though,292early on, in January 2020, within days scientists discovered293that, lo and behold, it had a novel furin cleavage site just as294had been proposed in the DEFUSE project. This is either an295extraordinary coincidence or a smoking gun, evidence that the296Chinese had created COVID-19. It made the laboratory origin297question more legitimate, and it made your categorial public298denials indefensible.299    On May 11, 2021, you told the Senate, ``The NIH has never,300ever, and does not now fund gain-of-function research in Wuhan,301in the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV).'' When I gave you the302opportunity to correct the record, to reconsider the statement,303you responded that you had never before lied to Congress.304    We were then told that only the government's narrowest305regulation of definition counted here, that you could define306gain-of-function in one way, in which this wasn't gain-of-307function, in which all of the common sense of the world would308be thrown out, all of the ideas that the mice were dying and309the virus was more transmissible didn't matter because you had310a technical definition that allowed you to fund it. But the311real question is, was it dangerous? Was it a wise decision to312fund this? You haven't deviated from that. You have never313admitted that it could have been a mistake funding this314research in China.315    The American people were not asking for a semantics debate316over what is gain-of-function. They were asking, does common317sense say this research was dangerous in Wuhan? They wanted to318know whether their money funded experiments in Wuhan that made319bat coronaviruses better able to infect humans. The answer is320yes. They wanted to know whether NIAID adequately supervised321their work. The answer is no.322    When you defended this research you described its benefits323in the broadest terms. But when Congress demanded324accountability you hid behind the narrowest possible325definition. You can't have it both ways.326    Your conduct concerning Federal records raises further327questions. It is a crime to destroy Federal records. Yet our328investigation reveals your assistant diligently reported that329she deleted tons of emails. In 2024, you testified that you did330not delete Federal records. Who is telling the truth, you or331your assistant?332    The Committee has obtained repeated instructions from you,333telling Federal officials to delete communications. On February3342, 2020, one day after an origins call, you told Francis335Collins, ``Please delete this email after you read it.''336    The Committee asked for your voluntary cooperation to come337today. Your appearance had to be compelled by subpoena. You are338here today under duress. You are here today because of the339court ordering it.340    President Biden issued you a sweeping pardon, extending341back to 2014, the same pardon he gave to his son, Hunter. A342pardon may protect a person from criminal prosecution. It does343not rewrite history. It does not erase documents. It does not344convert a misleading statement into a truthful one. It does not345prevent Congress from establishing what happened.346    There will be another pandemic. There will be another347crisis. There will again be officials who insist that348uncertainty must be hidden for the public's own good. They will349demand obedience. They will invoke science, I am the science,350as though it were a commandment. They will argue that351government officials cannot be questioned because questioning352them would undermine public trust.353    They have it backward. It is secrecy that destroys trust.354It is arrogance that destroys trust. It is censorship that355destroys trust. It is the refusal to admit error that destroys356trust. That loss of trust may be your most damaging legacy.357    Trust cannot be ordered. It has to be earned. No scientist358is above scrutiny. No government official is beyond359accountability. No public servant has the right to treat the360suffering of millions of Americans as a footnote to his361preferred version of history.362    I now recognize Senator Peters for his opening remarks.363364             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PETERS\1\365366    Senator Peters. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Senate367Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee (HSGAC)368has a long and a very proud history of conducting serious369oversight on behalf of the American people. When this Committee370has been at its best, Democrats and Republicans have worked371together to investigate complicated issues, to follow the facts372wherever they may lead, and produce recommendations that373actually strengthen our Nation's security and improve374government functions.375---------------------------------------------------------------------------376    \1\ The prepared statement of Senator Peters appears in the377Appendix on page 60.378---------------------------------------------------------------------------379    That bipartisan tradition has produced meaningful work380following Hurricane Katrina, the January 6th attack on the U.S.381Capitol, failures at the U.S. Secret Service (USSS), and382countless other matters.383    Unfortunately, today's hearing is the latest step in the384Chairman's sharp departure from that long tradition. This385hearing appears to be a culmination of months of biased and386selected efforts by the majority, under the guise of a387committee investigation, to basically legitimize a388predetermined conclusion that was reached years ago.389    In 2021, the Chairman has called for today's witness to be390fired, to be arrested, accused him of leading coverups and391conspiracies. He has even featured the witness prominently in392fundraising emails and on the cover of his book. He has also393called for the cancellation of the witness' security detail,394despite the fact the witness and his family have received395numerous credible death threats.396    When I served as Chairman, Senator Paul and I launched a397bipartisan biosecurity investigation that included oversight of398risky research and the origins of COVID-19, because we agreed399that the Committee's work would be stronger if we did it in a400bipartisan manner and just followed the facts. That was, and401continues to be, an area of legitimate and certainly needed402oversight.403    As Chairman, Senator Paul has taken the opposite approach.404He has abandoned longstanding practice by blocking minority405participation in Committee oversight actions and has chosen to406selectively release Committee records that the minority has407never had any access to, in order to support his pre-drawn408conclusions.409    The Chairman has repeatedly excluded Committee's minority410and withheld documents and evidence from members that are411entitled to receive them, disregarding longstanding Senate412rules and Committee precedent that have preserved the413credibility of our oversight in this Committee for decades.414    I have raised these concerns directly with the Chairman,415because it is not just what we investigate that matters but how416we conduct that investigation. That also matters. One-sided417investigations designed to validate predetermined conclusions418do not serve the American people who sent us to actually419undercover the truth and solve problems.420    I wrote to the Chairman requesting that he adhere to421Committee rules, but instead of addressing concerns that I422raised he removed part of the Committee's website from the423public view. This move not only prevented the public from being424able to view those list of concerns, it adds serious questions425about the desire for transparency and legitimate oversight of426this matter.427    But what makes today's hearing particularly disappointing428is not simply the Chairman's actions but what we could be using429this Committee's true and time, oversight responsibilities to430accomplish. This Committee has not held its annual threats431hearing at all in this Congress. We have not held a budget432hearing for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). There433are important hearing that we would have the opportunity to434discuss as to how to strengthen our homeland security across435the board. No hearings on those topics.436    Instead of focusing on the national security challenges437that we are facing in our country right now, today's hearing438looks backward, revisiting questions this Committee has already439examined, including through bipartisan work that Senator Paul440and I conducted together when I served as Chairman of this441Committee. But rather than building on that work to strengthen442our preparedness against future disasters, we are instead443relitigating the past.444    COVID-19 exposed serious deficiencies in our Nation's445public health infrastructure. We know that. More than one446million Americans lost their lives, and this Committee should447absolutely continue to examine how we can better prepare our448Nation against future biological threats. Those are the kinds449of forward-looking, lifesaving questions that will help our450Nation be better prepared to protect the health and the safety451of Americans when the next emergency occurs.452    Unfortunately, at this precise moment we should be453strengthening our capabilities, the Trump administration seems454to be doing everything in their power to actually weaken our455capabilities. The Administration has hollowed out the public456health workforce. They have fired, pushed out, and cut funding457for public health personnel, shrinking the CDC workforce by a458quarter. Thousands of experienced scientists have left459government service, and with them has gone critical460institutional knowledge. That cannot be easily replaced,461certainly not quickly replaced.462    The Administration, thanks to political operatives like463Russell Vought, has slashed or illegally withheld funding for464lifesaving medicines and cutting-edge technologies that let us465rapidly develop them during an emergency. Mr. Vought is now466further politicizing the Federal grant-making process,467proposing to subject all Federal grants, including those for468disaster relief, housing development, and cancer research, to469the whims of political appointees, not nonpartisan experts.470    All of this has left the American people more vulnerable to471infectious disease threats, and we are already tragically472seeing the consequences. Staffing and funding cuts have slowed473the Federal, State, and local response to an ongoing outbreak474of a food-borne parasite, which has sickened thousands in my475home State of Michigan as well as across the country. At the476same time, the Administration cuts to global health programs477and international partnerships have greatly reduced our ability478to contain dangerous diseases like Ebola before they spread to479our shores.480    We should be examining whether our Federal health agencies481(FHA) have the personnel and the resources they need to482effectively prevent, detect, and respond to these threats. We483should be asking how to strengthen our biodefense efforts to484deter our adversaries and prevent biological attacks against485our country, and how our government can better coordinate and486communicate during public health emergencies.487    These are the kinds of forward-looking matters that are488worthy of this Committee's time. Instead, we are here489continuing the Chairman's year-long focus on one individual.490    History tells us, unfortunately, another pandemic is all491but inevitable. The question is whether Congress and this492Committee will work to better prepare our country for it, or493continue looking backward while our public health494infrastructure crumbles around us. That is the hearing that we495should be having today. Unfortunately, I fear the intent of496this hearing is only meant to further a purely partisan agenda497and it will not make Americans safer.498    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.499    Chairman Paul. The accusation that the Committee has denied500access to the minority to records is categorically false. This501is the most transparent investigation in the history of502Congress. We actually created a website, and we put all of the503information on the website. It continues to operate.504    The reason it hasn't been accessed is because not one505Democrat ever signed up for it, not one Democrat. We told them506the access code. They never asked for the access code. They507have not been on the website because they have not cared about508the investigation.509    It is the practice of the Homeland Security and510Governmental Affairs Committee to swear the witness. Dr. Fauci,511please stand and raise your right hand.512    Do you swear that the testimony you will give before this513Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but514the truth, so help you, God?515    Dr. Fauci. I do.516    Chairman Paul. Dr. Anthony Fauci, you are recognized for517five minutes for your opening statement.518519 TESTIMONY OF ANTHONY FAUCI, M.D., FORMER DIRECTOR (1984-2022)520NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES, NATIONAL521   INSTITUTES OF HEALTH, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN522                            SERVICES523524    Dr. Fauci. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Peters, Members of525the Committee, I served at the NIH for over 54 years, 38 of526those as Director of the National Institute of Allergy and527Infectious Diseases. Over that period I proved that I believe528in and respect the value of legitimate congressional oversight.529In fact, I testified before and/or briefed Senate and House530committees well over 200 times over those 38 years.531    During and after the COVID pandemic I have appeared532multiple times for hearings in the Senate and the House,533usually under oath, and sat for several days-long, transcribed,534sworn interviews, answering questions about the very issues535that are now the subject of this hearing.536    However, given Senator Paul's obvious obsession with537calling for my prosecution, his repeated slanderous comments538about me, and recently his publicly releasing my unredacted539personal diary, aimed at embarrassing and intimidating me, the540only conclusion I can reach is that the sole reason he is541calling me before this Committee is to get me to say something,542anything, that could vindicate his repeated public pledges that543I end up in, in his words, ``behind bars.''544    Any reasonable person who has followed his unhinged545obsession with me would readily come to the same conclusion.546Therefore, although it pains me to do so because of the respect547I have for the Legislative Branch of government and my decades-548long record of cooperating with Congress, under the advice of549my attorneys I will invoke my right, under the Fifth Amendment550to the Constitution, to refrain from answering your questions.551Thank you.552    Chairman Paul. We will now begin a round of questioning.553Dr. Fauci, your testimony today is compelled by a lawful554subpoena. As you know, it is a crime under 18 USC 1001 to555knowingly make a material false statement to Congress, with the556penalty of up to five years of imprisonment.557    Understanding that you are under oath, the American people558would like to understand your reasoning, your rationale, for559why you chose to fund the research in Wuhan. There have been,560intelligence agencies, the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA),561the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the Department of562Energy (DOE), have all come to the conclusion that more likely563than not the virus came from the lab in Wuhan.564    We would like to know what was the rationale, what was the565discussion, what went behind the decision to fund the research566in Wuhan? How did you come to the conclusion that a567totalitarian country would be capable of doing this, in a BSL-2568lab, a lab that lacked the security? What was the reasoning?569Are you sorry, basically, for making the decision? Would you,570given another chance, say, ``Well, gosh, circumstances now, as571I know it, maybe it wasn't a wise thing.'' Can you explain to572the Committee why you chose to fund this dangerous research in573China?574    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline575to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the576Constitution.577    Chairman Paul. In the red folder on your table is a copy of578Section 192 of Title 2 of the U.S. Code.\1\ Your counsel has579been provided a copy, as well. That section makes it a crime580for a witness appearing under subpoena to refuse to answer any581questions pertinent to the question under inquiry. Do you have582that in front of you?583---------------------------------------------------------------------------584    \1\ The red folder referenced by Senator Paul appears in the585Appendix on page 73.586---------------------------------------------------------------------------587    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline588to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the589Constitution.590    Chairman Paul. Let the record record that the witness has591refused to answer whether there is a folder in front of him,592based on his Fifth Amendment right.593    It is true that you are appearing under direction of our594subpoena to provide testimony on matters under consideration by595the Committee, including the origins of COVID-19, risky life596sciences research in your tenure as a Federal Government597employee. Additionally, you have been provided a full and598unconditional pardon, dated January 19, 2025, for any offenses599against the United States which may have been committed or600taken part from January 1, 2014, to the date of the pardon, for601a 10-year period, arising from or in any manner related to your602service as Director of the National Institute for Allergy and603Infectious Diseases, as a member of the White House Coronavirus604Task Force, or the White House COVID-19 Response Team, or as605Chief Medical Advisor to the President.606    Have you refused this pardon, or do you have any reason to607believe this full and unconditional pardon, this grant of608immunity would somehow require you to plead the Fifth609Amendment?610    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline611to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the612Constitution.613    Chairman Paul. Based on the facts presented I am going to614direct you to answer the questions. The Committee has issued a615valid subpoena. They have requested your presence here. The616questions are very pertinent to your decisionmaking as head of617NIAID as well as a Chief Advisor to the President. Do you still618refuse to answer the questions?619    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline620to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the621Constitution.622    Chairman Paul. Dr. Fauci, were you ever made aware of gain-623of-function research on monkeypox being conducted at the624National Biodefense Analysis and Countermeasures Center625(NBACC), at Fort Dietrich?626    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline627to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the628Constitution.629    Chairman Paul. Dr. Fauci, did the CIA ever transfer funds630to NIH under an interagency agreement?631    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline632to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the633Constitution.634    Chairman Paul. Dr. Fauci, did the NIH ever conduct research635for or in coordination with any element of the intelligence636community--CIA, Office of the Director of National Intelligence637(ODNI)?638    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline639to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the640Constitution.641    Chairman Paul. The reason why these questions are important642is President Trump has done a ban, and we were glad that he did643a ban, on gain-of-function research. We are better off than we644were when we had an advocate serving as head of NIAID, an645advocate for gain-of-function research. There is still, though,646a question of whether or not the intelligence community (IC) is647adhering to that order. There is a question of whether or not648gain-of-function research is still ongoing. These are important649questions the American people deserve to know.650    Dr. Fauci, have been you read into any classified651Department of Homeland Security program, any prospective652special access program concerning gain-of-function research?653    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline654to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the655Constitution.656    Chairman Paul. When we look at the research in China, the657gain-of-function research that you have denied was gain-of-658function, one of the things that startled the scientists when659they saw COVID in the first couple of weeks was when they660looked at the sequence of it they said, ``Oh my God, there is a661furin cleavage site in it.'' In this particular family of662coronaviruses, the sarbecoviruses, they had never seen this663before.664    They were also startled to look at it and see how it was665coded for, what the codons were, and to discover that the666codons used, out of 36 different possibilities, turned out to667be the one that was commonly used in gene manipulation by668scientists.669    Dr. Fauci, were the scientists at the Wuhan Institute of670Virology capable of inserting a furin cleavage site into a671coronavirus?672    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline673to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the674Constitution.675    Chairman Paul. One of the experiments that was pretty676common was they would take the backbone of a SARS virus, and677this would be a SARS virus that the backbone itself was not678that dangerous. But then they would dig through guano, 300 feet679underground, bat guano. They would find other viruses, unknown680viruses. They would take the S-protein off of an unknown virus681and stick it on a backbone. Then they would infect mice that682have humanized cells, and they were trying to discover if they683could create a virus that infects humans.684    Now, many people would say, ``Well gosh, that doesn't sound685like a really good idea to create viruses that don't exist in686nature, to see if they will infect human cells.'' What if one687escaped? What if you keep infecting this and do serial passage,688you actually adapt the virus to be infectious to humans.689    The question is, is whether or not Dr. Fauci, the Wuhan690Institute of Virology was combining an S-protein with one virus691with the backbone of others, and could this lead to a virus--692maybe it wasn't even predicted, but could it lead to viruses693that gained in function and then could lead to a pandemic?694    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline695to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the696Constitution.697    Chairman Paul. One of the arguments that you and others698have made against this virus coming from the lab is it couldn't699have come from the viruses that have been published. Nobody is700really arguing that. I think from the very beginning people701acknowledged that the viruses that have been published are too702far evolutionarily distant from a virus that could have become703COVID-19.704    What has never been acknowledged by the side who tries to705call the other side a conspiracy theory, which is really706something you don't usually see in a scientific debate, this is707the first time I have ever seen an article printed in Lancet by708your friends who called this a conspiracy theory. These are the709kinds of things you see as a screed on a political website. You710don't really see this in science.711    When they released this as being a conspiracy theory, we712are wondering that when you do this, when you combine these713viruses and are able to grow them in humanized cells, whether714or not this kind of risky research, whether or not you call it715gain-of-function or not, whether you use the definition of716gain-of-function, whether this kind of research should have had717more scrutiny. I think in your House testimony you testified718that you never traveled to China, and that you were unaware719that anybody at NIH ever examined the labs, that you trusted720the Chinese scientists. I think you have said that even721recently, that with your discretion you trusted the Chinese722scientists.723    The problem is that even in our country we trust our724scientists. They are good American scientists, probably doing725the right thing for America. But at the same time we have726oversight to make sure it is not dangerous research, but we727also investigate the lab. I believe Fort Dietrich, was one of728our main labs, was closed down in the last year or two because729of a research incident that was dangerous, with dangerous730pathogens.731    The American people would want to know how could you732approve this dangerous research in China, say that you trusted733the Chinese scientists, and then in the end you had to admit734that you had never been there and none of your inspectors had735ever been there. Dr. Fauci, at any of the labs where this736dangerous research was occurring, were any American lab737oversight or lab investigators, did they ever appear in these738labs to make sure that they were safe labs?739    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline740to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the741Constitution.742    Chairman Paul. One of the main theories, for those who have743looked at this being created in the lab, was the idea that it744could have come from a virus not previously published. Dr.745Fauci, are you aware that Dr. Shi, who worked for the Wuhan746Institute of Virology, was said to, and I think in her own747words, to have over 100 viruses that had not been previously748published that could have been at close enough relative to749create COVID-19? Are you aware of that?750    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline751to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the752Constitution.753    Chairman Paul. Under your testimony previously, when you754denied ever having funded gain-of-function in China, it was so755adamant as to be striking to leave no room for any756interpretation of what is or isn't gain-of-function research.757But there is another important question. Did you fund gain-of-758function research in other bio labs around the world?759    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline760to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the761Constitution.762    Chairman Paul. The one research project that we do know you763did fund is the one that Ron Fouchier did. It is important to764talk about because this sort of was the beginning of the debate765over gain-of-function. This was not just me. I was not even766aware of the debate 10 years ago. This was other scientists.767Over 200 scientists at the Cambridge Working Group signed a768protest because they didn't think you should fund the research,769and they didn't think it should even be published because it770was sort of a roadmap as to how to make a bioweapon.771    What they did was the avian flu, and this is important. It772may be the most important question we get to here today. The773avian flu has about 50 percent mortality for humans. The good774news, though, about animal viruses is they don't infect humans775very well. It will infect humans, but does not go human to776human very well.777    Ron Fouchier, with the money that you provided to him, did778an experiment where he caused purposeful mutations to create a779new virus, an avian flu that did not just infect birds well but780actually infected mammals well. It went ferret-to-ferret in an781aerosolized manner. People saw this and were aghast at the782decisionmaking process, that you had decided to fund this.783    But this is when the debate came about, and you wrote in784support of this in The Washington Post, and you said even if a785scientist is bitten, even if a pandemic should occur, the786knowledge is worth the risks. Do you still stand by that? Would787you like to qualify at all whether or not the knowledge of788gain-of-function is worth the risks, particularly in this case789since we now know 15 million people died worldwide, and many790people believe this came from the lab. Do you think that the791risks really are worth the benefits for gain-of-function792research?793    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline794to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the795Constitution.796    Chairman Paul. We are going to finish with this question,797and it is based really on that statement, that general798statement in your support for gain-of-function, the idea that799the benefits outweigh the risks.\1\800---------------------------------------------------------------------------801    \1\ The chart from Senator Paul appears in the Appendix on page 63.802---------------------------------------------------------------------------803    There are many other people who disagreed, and they are not804politicians. They are not, I don't know what party they are in.805David Relman is probably one of the most esteemed, and he is a806scientist at Stanford. He, I think, has classified clearance.807He has been a consultant to our government probably for a808decade or more. He has written about this publicly. He says the809opposite. He said that the risks of this research do not810outweigh the benefits. He said we should not do it. Richard811Ebright, who has been involved in this debate for two decades,812says the same thing, we really should not be doing this at all.813    There is a quote also by Kevin Esvelt, who is a Clustered814Regularly Interspaced Short Palindromic Repeats (CRISPR)815scientist at Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), also816wrote about this gain-of-function. ``I implore every scientist,817funder, and nation working in the field, please stop. No more818trying to discover or make pandemic-capable viruses. No more819experiments likely to disseminate blueprints for plagues.''820    Dr. Fauci, would you like to at least answer this one821question for us today and let us know whether or not you have822changed your mind on whether or not the benefits of gain-of-823function research outweigh the risks?824    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline825to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the826Constitution.827    Chairman Paul. The Chairman has denied your assertion of828privilege and directed you to answer him. But you nonetheless829refuse and stand on privilege, despite the existence of the830pardon. The Committee will have to consider, after this831hearing, what appropriate actions should be taken against you832for the failure to testify after being directed to do so. It is833against the law to obstruct an investigation of Congress. There834will be repercussions for your refusal to testify today.835Senator Peters.836    Mr. Schertler. Chairman Paul, may I make a comment?837    Chairman Paul. You are not recognized. If you are unruly838you will be removed from the proceeding. You are not839recognized.840    Mr. Schertler. Dr. Fauci----841    Chairman Paul. You are not recognized, sir.842    Mr. Schertler [continuing]. On the advice of counsel----843    Chairman Paul. Sir, you are not recognized.844    Mr. Schertler [continuing]. Valid----845    Chairman Paul. You are not recognized. Security--we will846hold off. But you will respect these proceedings. You were told847not to sit at the table. You insist on sitting at the table. We848told you you would not be recognized. You were not invited here849for testimony, sir. You are being disruptive. Would you behave850this way in a courtroom? No, because the judge would put you in851jail. I can't do that today, but I can have you escorted from852the premises.853    I would say, sir, sit quietly and don't say another word.854    Mr. Schertler. Chairman, I understand.855    Chairman Paul. I said sit quietly. You are not recognized.856Another word and you are gone.857    Mr. Schertler. Very well.858    Senator Peters. Mr. Chairman, I would like to hear what the859attorney has to say.860    Chairman Paul. He is not recognized by the Committee or the861Chair. If he speaks again he will be removed from the room.862This testimony is from Anthony Fauci. This is not a game with863his lawyers. He can advise. His lawyers can give him advice. He864has a half dozen here. They are all allowed to talk to him.865    Senator Peters. Yes.866    Chairman Paul. All right? But the attorney are not867recognized. In fact, the attorney was told not to sit at the868table, and he is not obeying that recommendation. There is a869row behind you, sir. That is where you were told to sit, and870you are not.871    Mr. Schertler. I am happy----872    Chairman Paul. Now you are disrupting the proceedings.873Look, this is the way Anthony Fauci wants to be remembered, for874a lawyer not listening to the rules. That is the way you want875to be remembered, and that is what you are going to do? You are876not recognized, sir.877    Mr. Schertler. Will you allow me to make a short statement?878    Chairman Paul. Security, please remove him from the room.879    [Applause.]880    Let the record state that Dr. Fauci will still have the881advice of the other half a dozen attorneys that he brought882along today. Senator Peters.883    Senator Peters. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The COVID-19884pandemic is not the first or the last public health crisis to885impact our Nation. In December 2022, I released a report that886identified significant failures in our Federal Government's887preparedness and initial response to COVID-19.\1\ This report888contained 17 key findings. It is a very large report, which I889have right here. It contained 17 key findings and corresponding890recommendations, including the need to invest in sustainable891domestic manufacturing capabilities for critical medical892supplies, fill the infrastructure needed to surge testing893capacity for infectious diseases, and robustly fund public894health emergency preparedness and responses across all levels895of government.896---------------------------------------------------------------------------897    \1\ The report referenced by Senator Peters appears in the Appendix898on page 128.899---------------------------------------------------------------------------900    Unfortunately, multiple administrations, including the901current Trump administration, have failed to fund or to reform902our health preparedness. This is something that I would hope903the Committee in the future would investigate. It needs to be904taken a look at.905    It also feels like a new public health threat is hitting us906every month. There is a food-borne parasite affecting thousands907of people in Michigan and across the country, and our Federal908agencies still have not fully pinned down the source of that909outbreak. Measles cases in this country are at the highest they910have been in 35 years. More children are getting sick and even911hospitalized from this preventable disease. Over 1,000 people912have died from the Ebola virus in Africa, and we do not know913how widespread this crisis actually is. We have a hantavirus914scare on a cruise ship, and though it has not made headlines in915the way that the screwworm threatening our food security has, I916remain concerned about bird flu, that is also spreading and917could one day cause a pandemic. This is also something this918Committee should be investigating and holding hearings on.919    Since January 2025, the Trump administration has taken a920number of actions to drastically weaken our ability to fight921infectious diseases and biological threats that endanger922Americans. These actions are both incomprehensible and are also923inexcusable. They include slashing funding for public health924and infectious disease research, canceling contracts for925cutting-edge vaccine technology, shutting agencies responsible926for tackling infectious diseases around the world, firing927thousands of Federal employees with keeping our communities and928our medicines and our food supply safe, and injecting political929appointees in what should be non-political, grant-making930functions. That is something this Committee should be looking931at.932    I could go on, on all the topics that we need to be looking933at moving forward, to protect this country. We are not doing934that in this Committee. That is what this Committee was935designed to do. It is what it has done throughout history. It936has done it in a bipartisan way. We should get back to that and937think about the future of this country and keeping this country938safe.939    When a crisis like COVID-19 strikes we have an obligation940to examine what went right and what went wrong, to provide941accountability for the American people. Congress certainly has942done that. Between the House and Senate, nearly 20 different943committees--including this Committee, as I mentioned, have944conducted oversight of the COVID-19 pandemic, conducting945transcribed interviews, holding dozens of hearings, and946released more than 10 reports.947    Today's exercise, unfortunately, is a stark departure from948those largely bipartisan, legitimate efforts. The Chairman has949shut the minority out of participating equally in these950efforts, withheld information, selectively released documents,951actions that completely undermine the credibility of this952investigation. I will enter into the record, without objection,953Mr. Chairman, a letter\1\ that I sent to you that detailed all954of those areas that we have concern with and where we were shut955out. We will provide other details, as well.956---------------------------------------------------------------------------957    \1\ The letter referenced by Senator Peters appears in the Appendix958on page 124.959---------------------------------------------------------------------------960    Chairman Paul. Without objection.961    Senator Peters. I think today's hearing, unfortunately,962does real damage. It is tempting to turn one person into the963scapegoat for a crisis that hundreds of officials across both964the Trump and the Biden administration were responsible for965handling. It does so in a way that people that are facing death966threats. This is only going to, unfortunately, deter other967scientific experts from public service, to understand that this968is what they would have to go through as they provide their969advice to us.970    We are not going to make our Nation safer, and I hope that971we can restore it by doing these kinds of activities, and I972hope that we can restore our legitimate, bipartisan oversight973that is going to help strengthen our public health and pandemic974preparedness and other homeland priorities. That is what this975Committee needs to focus on. It has not the last year and a976half. Let's hope it does in the future.977    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.978    Chairman Paul. Senator Johnson.979980              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR JOHNSON981982    Senator Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Fauci, I hope983the American people listened very carefully to Chairman Paul's984opening statement. I think it is a stunning indictment of the985actions you have taken that have been so destructive to global986health.987    I certainly understand why you needed a pardon. I certainly988understand why, on the advice of counsel, you are not answering989any questions, because I think it would be almost impossible990for you to answer the questions truthfully, without really991demonstrating what you did, your culpability, self-992incriminating.993    We have, all of us, have prepared a lot. I have been994deluged with questions to ask Dr. Anthony Fauci. There are so995many legitimate questions that deserve answers, and now you are996not willing to provide those answers. With my limited time I am997going to talk about things that my investigation revealed, that998have not been adequately answered, and quite honestly, have not999been adequately covered by the legacy media.1000    I will kind of combine the questions into kind of one.1001Let's put up the last COVID chart.\1\ I was warned pretty early1002on about the dangers of the experimental gene therapy, that you1003have called a vaccine, but it really falls under the definition1004of gene therapy. I was going to ask you, I mean, were you1005carefully monitoring the safety surveillance systems, like1006Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) and V-Safe that1007literally were deluged with complaints?1008---------------------------------------------------------------------------1009    \1\ The chart referenced by Senator Johnson appears in the Appendix1010on page 64.1011---------------------------------------------------------------------------1012    Currently, worldwide, there have been almost 1.7 million1013adverse events reported to the VAERS system. Of those, over101439,000 were deaths, and of those deaths, 24 percent occurred on1015the day of vaccination, within one or two days, 24 percent,1016which, by the way, just happens to be the same percentage that1017a Rasmussen poll pointed out that the American public believe--101824 percent of the American public believe they know somebody1019who died of the experimental gene therapy.1020    Again, I was certainly interested in asking you whether or1021not you were following this as carefully as I was. It was not1022my responsibility to follow safety surveillance systems, but I1023did. By the way, this is actual government information. When I1024published it, and people had me on their shows, they would be1025censored by Facebook. They would be de-platformed, I think at1026the behest of actions you took to make sure that this1027information was not spread. This was not disinformation. This1028was the truth.1029    I was going to ask you whether you knew Dr. Marks. I think1030you do know him. He's the head of Center for Biologics1031Evaluation and Research (CBER). He is the man who is in charge1032of approving vaccines and surveilling for their safety. My1033investigation shows that on March 1, 2021, less than three1034months after the Emergency Use Authorizations (EUA), he was1035warned by Dr. Ana Sfarzman, a data mining expert, that the1036algorithm they were using to analyze VAERS data was going to1037hide and mask safety signals.1038    Twenty-six days later, and three months consecutively after1039that, they did data runs with a new algorithm that unmasked1040those safety signals. They showed dozens of safety signals,1041including sudden cardiac death, cerebral artery occlusion,1042basal ganglia strike, agonal rhythm, Bell's Palsy, and1043pulmonary infarction. Your diaries now show that you actually1044suffered pulmonary infarction in, I think, probably June 2021.1045I was just wondering whether it ever went through your mind1046that maybe that injection, all those boosters you took, might1047have caused that.1048    I will ask this question. Were you ever made aware of the1049fact that Peter Marks was warned that the algorithm was going1050to hide the safety signals, and were you told that senior U.S.1051Food and Drug Administration (FDA) officials were given dozens,1052shown dozens of safety signals associated with the COVID1053injection?1054    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1055to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1056Constitution.1057    Senator Johnson. The next area I want to go through is in1058that same month of March 2021, an employee at NIH, Dr. Nath,1059had a team of researchers who were diagnosing and treating1060individuals who had never had COVID, who were severely injured1061by the genetic therapy injections. Dr. Nath told those1062individuals, ``Stay quiet. We want to make sure that we gather1063all the information, and they release it to doctors so they can1064treat people like yourself.'' There was a concerted effort, and1065I will enter this into the record,\1\ it appears, inside NIH to1066quash Dr. Nast's publishing that study. It finally was put on a1067preprint server, telling no one, in I think about May 2022.1068---------------------------------------------------------------------------1069    \1\ The NIH study referenced by Senator Johnson appears in the1070Appendix on page 480.1071---------------------------------------------------------------------------1072    I think what is noteworthy about this is Dr. Nath told the1073injured participants that early treatment, early intervention,1074was crucial for them to be treated. Yet within the NIH they1075were questioning what was Dr. Nath doing. They did not want to1076publish that because--and I do not want to take time searching1077for it--because publishing it would create vaccine hesitancy,1078which is what we continue to hear time and time again is the1079reason they lied about the safety signals they were seeing.1080    Throughout the pandemic I always pushed early treatment. We1081have things in here where you were really concerned about1082remdesivir because it was untested, but hydroxychloroquine,1083yes, it was an approved drug. Maybe some safety issues, but we1084had a great deal of experience with it. All of a sudden you had1085the Surgisphere study which was retracted within two weeks1086because it was completely false, totally blew up the use of1087hydroxychloroquine.\2\1088---------------------------------------------------------------------------1089    \2\ The Full Measure article on Hydroxychloroquine appears in the1090Appendix on page 462.1091---------------------------------------------------------------------------1092    Then when it comes to ivermectin, which, by the way,1093because I was contacted by so many people I referred them to1094doctors that actually had the courage and capacity to treat1095vaccine-injured individuals, it works.1096    I was going to ask you, were you involved in the FDA attack1097on ivermectin? You had an interview on Cable News Network1098(CNN), on August 29, 2021, where--again, I just don't want to1099take the time to find the exact quote, but you said there's no1100evidence that ivermectin is helpful. On that exact same day,1101and I have the studies right here, there was a website that was1102tracking the random controlled studies. Here they are, showing110360, 70 percent efficacy of ivermectin. The same thing you say1104there's no evidence. There was all kinds of evidence.1105    Loved ones had to go to--hospitals had to sue hospitals.1106Would you try it?1107    I would want to know, to what extent were you involved in1108sabotaging hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, and did you do that1109because you knew the only way you could get Emergency Use1110Authorization for these drugs, these experimental gene therapy,1111was if there was no effective treatment to get the Emergency1112Use Authorization? So is that why you helped sabotage these1113cheap generic drugs in favor of remdesivir, which, by the way,1114nurses--are you aware of the fact that nurses called it ``run,1115death is near''?1116    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1117to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1118Constitution.1119    Senator Johnson. Let me end on this note, because this just1120came to light. We have 11 million pages of documents. We also1121have other people who were in the room. But you actually lied1122to your own diary.1123    On March 27, 2020, you wrote in your diary,\1\ ``To my1124surprise yesterday the President of the United States (POTUS)1125sent a letter to Governors outlining a plan to reopen, county1126by county, while monitoring the spread of virus in low-risk1127counties. This was half-baked and never shown to Deb or I1128before it was sent out.''1129---------------------------------------------------------------------------1130    \1\ The diary entry referenced by Senator Johnson appears in the1131Appendix on page 477.1132---------------------------------------------------------------------------1133    We have evidence that, in fact, you were fully aware of it,1134and certainly approved it, if not authored it. I would simply1135ask you, is that true? I mean, did you literally lie to your1136own diary? Did you know of that letter sent to Governors about1137reopening county-by-county? Again, Mr. Chairman, I would ask1138you to ask the witness to just answer that one simple question.1139    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1140to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1141Constitution.1142    Senator Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1143    Chairman Paul. Senator Hassan.11441145              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HASSAN11461147    Senator Hassan. Thank you. Dr. Fauci, I want to start by1148thanking you for more than 50 years of service to this country1149at the National Institutes of Health. It is unfortunate that1150you have been put in the position that are you are in today. It1151must be enormously frustrating to know that this hearing is1152designed to entrap you. It must be very frustrating for your1153attorneys to hear the Chair's mischaracterization of the legal1154issues and posture that impact your decisions at the witness1155table today.1156    Meanwhile, I was going to ask you a series of questions1157about things that are relevant right now to the people of the1158United States about the State of public health in this country.1159Since President Trump took office in 2025, more than 4,5001160cases of measles have been reported. That is more cases in the1161year and a half since Donald Trump has been President than were1162reported from 2000 to 2024, combined. Children are dying1163because there has been increased vaccine hesitancy, fueled by1164Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the Secretary of Health and Human1165Services (HHS), and frankly, his entire administration.1166    Thousands of people in the United States of America have1167been sickened by a food-borne parasite, and the outbreak is1168nowhere near under control, as staffing at the FDA and other1169critical public health entities has been slashed by Russell1170Vought and Elon Musk.1171    Last year, the National Institutes of Health awarded I1172think it's 201 fewer grants compared to the previous year--207,1173I am corrected, compared to previous years. As those grants1174were either canceled or delayed, especially at the beginning of1175the Trump administration, I can tell you, I call tell my1176colleagues what the impact was on people in New Hampshire, on1177scientists in New Hampshire, on clinical trials in New1178Hampshire, where people's cancer treatment was interrupted1179because Elon Musk and Russell Vought know better, they say,1180than the people at NIH, about what to fund. Because they did1181some sort of word search, it seems, for some of the grants--and1182boy, oh boy, if you were studying rural health in New Hampshire1183and trying to understand how to better engage people who need1184health care in rural America, that was off the table.1185    America is losing researchers and scientists to other1186countries because researchers and scientists, highly trained,1187highly qualified, invested in often by the American taxpayer,1188are finding the hostility from this Administration so strong1189that it interferes with their science, and they want to pursue1190science, wherever that science takes them.1191    I also sit on the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions1192(HELP) Committee. We have had a number of hearings with1193nominees recently to fill critical spots. One of those nominees1194is Dr. Erica Schwartz, a brilliant woman, medical degree,1195biomedical engineering degree. I think she also told us she has1196a law degree and a master's in public health. She was a two-1197star admiral in the United States Navy, an experienced doctor.1198Yet when I asked her if she would push back at Secretary1199Kennedy if he instructed her to suspend the promotion of the1200flu vaccine as he did at some point in the last few months--1201there is an email to prove it--she could not answer that1202question. She either could not, would not, or had been bullied1203into evading a question about whether she, as the Director of1204CDC, would stand up to Secretary Kennedy, the most unqualified1205Secretary of Health and Human Services this country has ever1206seen, and more than unqualified, somebody who pursues1207conspiracy theories, degrades people with disabilities, and1208continues to promote disproved science.1209    That is the State of health care and public health in this1210country right now, not to mention the trillion dollars or so of1211cuts to the Medicaid program that is decimating health care in1212my State and decimating it around the country, not to mention1213the refusal of my colleagues and this Administration to extend1214critical tax cuts for people who are trying to afford insurance1215on the Affordable Care Act (ACA).1216    I just was at one of my community health clinics and they1217are reporting fewer and fewer people coming in for care,1218disrupting care, because they can no longer afford health1219insurance. That is impacting, of course, the revenue stream at1220the community health clinic, their ability to hire and pay1221people, their ability to take care of their community.1222    That is what I wish we were having hearings about, in this1223Committee and in the HELP Committee. That is what I wish we1224were trying to address in a bipartisan way. But instead, we are1225here in an attempt to entrap you, because you had a1226distinguished career, trying to put Americans' public health1227first.1228    With that I yield.1229    Chairman Paul. Senator Lankford.12301231             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD12321233    Senator Lankford. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Dr. Fauci,1234thanks for coming today. I know you are invoking your Fifth1235Amendment right, which you have the right to be able to do1236constitutionally, but thanks for coming and being a part of1237this. There are a lot of issues and a lot of questions that1238have come up, and hopefully in some day in the future we will1239be able to get all of this clear and be able to pull it1240together.1241    There were over a million Americans that died from COVID.1242You know that well. You were tracking the numbers literally1243every single day, of those affected and those that died, from1244the earliest days. There were a lot of lessons that we have to1245learn from this, that we should put into history to be able to1246determine what happens in the future, how do we respond in the1247future, how do we deal with something like this again. It was1248uncharted territory for everyone.1249    But I would tell you, countless families, including my own,1250watched a loved one die behind glass or through a screen,1251because we could not get access to them. Children could not get1252to school. People missed their prom or graduation ceremonies.1253There were lots of things that happened that dramatically1254changed the future of the country. The mental health issues1255that we have continued to deal with from the isolation have1256been profound. Even something as simple as children that wore1257masks or were around adults wearing masks for all that time are1258slower in learning language now because they could not watch1259someone's lips moving, so they are slower in that.1260    Amazingly enough, churches and places of worship were1261forced to be closed down. There were even churches that met1262where the pastor preached in the parking lot and the1263congregants all met in their cars, with windows up, and police1264came and scattered them and said, ``You can't be here.'' The1265simple act of social distancing became an issue, as everyone1266guess what is the right distance to be away from someone else.1267Literacy rates have declined. All these things are results, not1268to mention the loss of lives and the health experiences that1269have been out there for many Americans. So there are legitimate1270questions.1271    I wanted to be able to raise some of those, to be able to1272walk through some of this, because it has been very1273challenging. As we have gone through some of your notes and1274your diary and other things that are out there, we are trying1275to be able to pull bits and pieces of things to be able to1276learn lessons.1277    On May 6, 2020, you wrote at that time, ``I had a1278conversation with Robert Redfield,'' who, as you know well, as1279then the Director of CDC, ``about the fact that greater than1280one million children worldwide have missed their measles1281vaccination because of the shutdown.'' You stated, ``This is1282terrible and needs to be addressed, since on that basis alone1283there would be far more excess deaths from measles among1284children than coronavirus deaths among children. I need to1285bring this up to the the task force (TF).1286    Did you ever have an opportunity to bring up the potential1287of measles deaths among children and infection rate going1288around the world for measles based on the fact that so many1289children would not get their measles vaccine because of the1290shutdown?1291    Dr. Fauci. I am sorry, Senator, but on the advice of1292counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights1293under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution.1294    Senator Lankford. That is your right to do. One of the big1295issues really coming up is on the lab issue. This was greatly1296discussed about whether this came from a lab or whether this1297came from nature. There are obvious issues and differences1298between the two, to be able to know this. You have had a lot of1299conversations on this. Scientists around the world were in1300conversation on this.1301    There are different States that you even made in your1302private notes and in your public notes on it. on January 26,13032020, this is before we had even our first tragic death of1304coronavirus in the United States, you write, ``It how appears,1305using every data, that the genomic data, the first infection1306was in early December, and was not connected to the market,''1307which was the big rumor that was out there, this wet market in1308China. ``We know the market was not the source. It was the1309amplifier.''1310    On January 31st you wrote about a phone call. You wrote,1311``The people on the phone felt the mutations in a furin1312cleavage site of the spike protein could not have occurred1313naturally since it would require an evolutionary jump that they1314found nowhere in bat isolates. They bring up the possibility1315this could have been deliberately inserted and either1316accidentally released or deliberately released by a crazy1317person in a lab, the former being the most likely.''1318    On February 1st, same year, 2020. This is, again, still1319before our first death. ``There was not total agreement about1320the likelihood of deliberate insertion. Ron said he was sure1321that this could occur naturally and we should not waste our1322time and divert our efforts to pursue this. This is expected of1323him since he was the original gain-of-function person with1324Yoshi. Also Christian was withdrawn. The rest felt deliberate1325insertion was possible, and given the fact that Dr. Zhengli Shi1326at the University of Wuhan has been working for years in gain-1327of-function in coronaviruses to allow adaptation of the spike1328protein to bind to the human H2 receptor, we could not let this1329go.''1330    That is a remarkable statement from February 1, 2020, when1331there had not even been the first death here, but we knew1332something was moving. You knew well that something was moving.1333You identified, February 1st, before any of us had even heard1334of the Wuhan lab, not only the Wuhan lab in the conversation1335but literally the scientist that you named in your own notes,1336the lead scientist that was there. It is interesting to me on1337that, and the questions I was going to ask you was just your1338background and knowledge about the Wuhan lab and Dr. Shi and1339all the details.1340    I am aware of where you have been on trying to be able to1341plead your Fifth Amendment right, which is your right to be1342able to do. But I also wanted to be able to find out some facts1343to be able to help us for the future on this.1344    The Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, in May 2020,1345put out a classified document that has only been recently1346unclassified on this, that has this statement: ``We assess all1347the necessary conditions for an accidental release of a1348laboratory-modified coronavirus, specifically a coronavirus1349adapted to recognize human cell receptors, were present at the1350Chinese Wuhan Institute of Virology in mid to late 2019.''1351    Now, the question that I had for you is this. This is May135227, 2020. This is the report that most people will see is this.1353I have clearance--I serve on the Intelligence Committee--I have1354actually read this complete document unredacted.\1\ My concern1355is were you given the ability to see this document unredacted,1356based on your position? Were you able to see this and to be1357able to get this information? I could. I could see it, and I1358know what is here. Everybody else just has their conclusion at1359the beginning of it, not this. My question to you was going to1360be did you have access? Because it is important for the future1361that people in your position do have access to this kind of1362information and insight? Is there any way you could answer that1363question? Were you able to get access to this data?1364---------------------------------------------------------------------------1365    \1\ The document referenced by Senator Lankford appears in the1366Appendix on page 1241.1367---------------------------------------------------------------------------1368    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1369to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1370Constitution.1371    Senator Lankford. You wrote on January 26, 2020, ``We1372should be allowed to send our CDC epidemiologists to China to1373work with them, so they could see the data firsthand.'' You1374also wrote, February 12, 2020 that you had great concerns about1375the World Health Organization (WHO) because it depends greatly1376on China, and as you stated, often bows to them.1377    This is a really important issue that we have to resolve1378for the future. It is not just our cooperation with Chinese1379scientists. It's our acknowledgement that China covered up1380their data, would not allow our scientists to be able to come1381in. They cleaned up the wet market. They cleaned up the other1382areas. They would not allow you to get access to all the other1383scientists who were there, including their health records, what1384happened to them, or even all the sequencing that they had done1385in advance.1386    For the future of our research and our cooperation with any1387scientist around the world, I think it is really important that1388we resolve, if we are going to fund research and cooperate with1389you, we have to have certain things from you. If things go1390sideways, we have to have access to all information and all1391places. You were nothing not only that China was affecting the1392World Health Organization and that China was bending them to1393their will, so the World Health Organization was putting out1394data that you saw, at least, at that point, as being from a1395Chinese perspective covering up what was going on, but you also1396noted, we weren't able to get access to all this information.1397    We have to be able to figure this out for the future, to be1398able to make sure that research that is done, we have access to1399all information if something goes sideways at some point, which1400clearly it did at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. That being,1401as was noted by many people, the only lab in the world that was1402doing research like this that had a lower standard of actually1403their security standards there than many other labs around the1404world, yet they were doing this very dangerous research.1405    What can we gain and what advice could you give us to say1406in a future setting we have to make sure that we actually get1407information from people and we can be guaranteed that we are1408going to get that insight? Yes, sir.1409    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1410to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1411Constitution.1412    Senator Lankford. I yield back.1413    Chairman Paul. Senator Blumenthal.14141415            OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR BLUMENTHAL14161417    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to go1418back to the dark days of the coronavirus pandemic, one of the1419darkest days or times in our history. Hospitals were1420overflowing. Navy medical ships were docked in the Hudson1421River. Emergency rooms were forced into unprecedented triaging.1422During the worst week of the pandemic, which happens to have1423the last week of President Trump's first term, more than 25,0001424Americans died of COVID-19.1425    Easy to forget those dark days, but for the past 18 months,1426the Trump administration has been engaged in a campaign to1427rewrite this history, and today's proceeding, I fear, is part1428of that effort, one of the darkest days in our Senate's1429history.1430    The Trump administration has launched a baseless set of1431smears against vaccines that helped pull us out of that public1432health crisis, vaccines that are undoubtedly President Trump's1433greatest accomplishment. It has slashed funding to local public1434health departments that were on the front lines of the1435pandemic, and those health care workers are heroes. It has1436disparaged those heroes as woke or wasteful. It has used a1437politicized Department of Justice (DOJ) to target the1438researchers who helped us track and understand the novel virus.1439Today's hearing is another page in that playbook, sadly,1440tragically.1441    Dr. Fauci, you have spent five decades in public service,1442including nearly four decades in leadership at the National1443Institutes of Health, helping to conquer COVID-19, but also1444Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV), swine flu, Zika, Ebola, and1445other epidemics, with real-life results saving human lives. Put1446aside all the flowery rhetoric that we hear in the U.S.1447Senate--Dr. Fauci has saved lives, as have public health1448officials in the United States and throughout the world. Today1449we are demeaning and degrading their lifesaving service.1450    Republicans are eager to rebrand you as a villain in order1451to distract from their own failure to protect Americans from1452soaring health care costs. They have been rising astronomically1453in the last couple of years. From unsafe food, which has caused1454cyclospora to spread. And resurgent measles as a result of the1455anti-vaccine policy.1456    This hearing is the culmination of a years-long crusade,1457which started more than six years ago when Dr. Fauci dared to1458contradict President Trump. The campaign to vilify you, Dr.1459Fauci, is just one part of this larger campaign against science1460and facts, a campaign that has made Americans less safe. It is1461shameful that in a country like ours, a dedicated public1462servant like Dr. Fauci has experienced persistent threats to1463his life since the pandemic because of the lies that are told1464about him.1465    His attorney has been gagged, thrown out of this hearing1466room. But he has written a letter to the Chairman that is an1467explanation for the reasons why Dr. Fauci is, in fact, invoking1468his constitutional right. It is a right. I would ask that this1469letter from David Schertler and Danny Onorato be made a part of1470the record.\1\ Chairman Paul. Without objection.1471---------------------------------------------------------------------------1472    \1\ The letter referenced by Senator Blumenthal appears in the1473Appendix on page 1232.1474---------------------------------------------------------------------------1475    His attorneys also issued a statement, within the last half1476hour, I believe, that sets forth, again, the reasons that he is1477here, to help protect his client's rights. I would ask that1478that statement be made part of the record,\2\ as well, Mr.1479Chairman.1480---------------------------------------------------------------------------1481    \2\ The statement referenced by Senator Blumenthal appears in the1482Appendix on page 1230.1483---------------------------------------------------------------------------1484    Chairman Paul. Without objection.1485    Senator Blumenthal. Let's be very clear. The Fifth1486Amendment is a right of everyone appearing before an authority1487like this one. It should be respected. The reason that Dr.1488Fauci has invoked it, in the words of his attorney, quote,1489``During and after the COVID-19 pandemic Dr. Fauci appeared at1490least a dozen times for congressional hearings in the Senate1491alone in answer to questions about the very issues on which you1492purport to seek information. He has been thoroughly transparent1493and consistent in providing factual information to the1494Congress, and he is deeply familiar with the processes and1495protocols of sharing information with the Legislative Branch.''1496    Then referring to the Chairman, ``This years-long public1497crusade against Dr. Fauci makes one thing clear. This is not a1498serious effort to seek information from Dr. Fauci, in a1499transcribed interview, for a valid legislative purpose. You are1500single-mindedly fixated on seeing Dr. Fauci prosecuted for1501imaginary crimes, and you are so invested in that outcome that1502you have created a personal brand around it.''1503    Those are the words of his attorney, and he cites, as well,1504the statements of the Chairman, which indicate a clear intent1505that the result of this proceeding be a prosecution. Quote,1506``The power of some of us must be used for good, like putting1507Fauci in jail.'' That is from December 23, 2025. ``I want to1508give him a subpoena and a jail cell,'' also from December 2025.1509The first was 2024.1510    Those kinds of statements by the Chairman of a committee in1511tweets certainly provide a well-founded fear that the1512proceeding underway is simply an effort to trap Dr. Fauci in1513some kind of criminal wrongdoing.1514    That is not the purpose of a congressional hearing, not the1515valid purpose of a congressional hearing. During some of the1516dark days in this body, under Senator Joe McCarthy, it became1517standard operating procedure (SOP) to seek that kind of1518prosecutorial objective. We should not be part of a rerun of1519that kind of effort. This attempt to rebrand one of the most1520challenging times in our Nation's history is a short-sighted1521act of desperation that will leave us less prepared for the1522next pandemic. It is an insult to the memory of more than one1523million Americans who died from COVID-19.1524    If there are valid scientific questions about the origins1525of this pandemic, COVID-19, about the kinds of steps that we1526are taking to counter it, about the need for more preparation,1527they should certainly be addressed. But not in a show trial,1528not as part of a continuing vendetta against a single1529individual. Unfortunately, I fear that is what we are seeing1530today. America deserves better.1531    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.1532    Chairman Paul. In no courtroom in America can you have your1533witness plead the Fifth Amendment and then your attorney gets1534to testify. That is what that letter is. The attorney is1535complaining and testifying, saying, ``He didn't do it. The1536prosecution is unfair.'' You don't get to do that. That is one1537thing you give up. When you take the Fifth Amendment you say,1538``I'm not going to testify. I'm not going to give you any1539information.'' You don't then get to put your lawyer forward to1540justify. He can do it in the press, but you can't come and1541testify. He was not invited to testify, and he was out of1542order, and it was appropriate to have him ejected. Senator1543Scott.15441545               OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SCOTT15461547    Senator Scott. Chairman Paul, thank you for doing this. I1548know in my State people have been asking questions about Dr.1549Fauci for years.1550    Dr. Fauci, your entries made clear that you love being a1551hero, a celebrity, and having the eyes of the world upon you.1552You loved every newspaper profile, every photo shoot, every1553fancy dinner with the elites. To many Americans who lost family1554members, who lost trust in our Federal Government, you are not1555a hero. Unfortunately, you are a villain. You made yourself the1556story and abandoned the American people to serve your own ego.1557    To begin, I would like to talk about your relationship with1558David Morens. He was the senior advisor in the NIAID, Office of1559the Director, your office for 16 years. He was your friend. He1560was a frequent guest at your house. You reportedly co-authored1561over 50 scientific articles with him. You turned to him first1562right after COVID-19 first occurred.1563    Earlier this year, the Department of Justice charged him1564with conspiracy against the United States, in addition to other1565charges, as part of a conspiracy to conceal information and1566falsify records to suppress alternative theories about the1567origins of COVID-19.1568    Now, you publicly kicked this man to the curb, saying,1569``Dr. Morens was not an advisor to me on Institute policy or1570other substantive issues.''1571    So let's start with the use of personal Gmail accounts and1572David Morens relationship with Peter Daszak. David Morens tells1573Peter Daszak, President of EcoHealth Alliance, and you have1574this in front of you--it is Exhibit 1,\1\ and it is already in1575the record as part of this--it says, quote, ``P.S. I forgot to1576say that there is no worry about FOIA. I can either send stuff1577to Tony on his private Gmail or hand it to him at work or at1578his house. He is too smart to let colleagues send him stuff1579that could cause trouble.''1580---------------------------------------------------------------------------1581    \1\ The exhibit referenced by Senator Scott appears in the Appendix1582on page 1250.1583---------------------------------------------------------------------------1584    Dr. Fauci, did Dr. Morens' relationship with Peter Daszak1585concern you? Yes or no.1586    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1587to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1588Constitution.1589    Senator Scott. Did David Morens ever bring documents to1590your house?1591    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1592to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1593Constitution.1594    Senator Scott. Did you ever receive a text about your work1595at NIAID to your personal cellphone?1596    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1597to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1598Constitution.1599    Senator Scott. Did any texts about your work at NIAID that1600went to your personal cellphone ever become part of Federal1601records?1602    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1603to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1604Constitution.1605    Senator Scott. Did you maintain a personal email account1606while serving as Director?1607    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1608to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1609Constitution.1610    Senator Scott. Did you ever receive work-related1611communications on that Gmail account from David Morens?1612    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1613to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1614Constitution.1615    Senator Scott. Did you preserve any work-related1616communications on that Gmail account from David Morens?1617    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1618to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1619Constitution.1620    Senator Scott. Did David Morens ever provide you with1621documents outside of those two ways that would violate NIH1622policy for FOIA compliance?1623    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1624to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1625Constitution.1626    Senator Scott. Now let's look at two other communications.1627You emailed David Morens on January 26, 2020, ``It is important1628that I speak with you tonight. Please call me at home.'' This1629is part of Exhibit 2 that you have in front of you. This email1630is sent the same day, the exact same day you write in an1631internal document, ``Now we know the market was not the source.1632It was the amplifier.''1633    Would you call the origins of COVID-19 a substantive issue?1634    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1635to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1636Constitution.1637    Senator Scott. Did you discuss COVID-19 origins with David1638Morens on this phone call?1639    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1640to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1641Constitution.1642    Senator Scott. Now let's take a closer look at the last1643time you testified before Congress. This is part of what you1644have in front of you as Exhibit 4, which is part of the record.1645In June 2024, you testified that Dr. Morens, ``was not an1646advisor to me on Institute policy or other substantive issues.1647Furthermore, his office is located in a different building from1648that of the NIAID Director.'' Is that still your testimony1649today?1650    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1651to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1652Constitution.1653    Senator Scott. So today under oath your testimony remains1654that Dr. Morens was not an advisor to you on Institute policy1655or substantive matters.1656    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1657to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1658Constitution.1659    Senator Scott. I have Exhibit 5, which you have in front of1660you. On October 24, 2021, David Morens texted you to provide1661information about an advocate for the controversial EcoHealth1662Alliance grant. You thank him and tell him you will check the1663information. Would you agree that this shows an advisory1664relationship between David Morens and yourself?1665    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1666to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1667Constitution.1668    Senator Scott. Would you agree that you two were discussing1669a substantive issue?1670    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1671to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1672Constitution.1673    Senator Scott. If documentary evidence establishes that Dr.1674Morens advised you regarding EcoHealth Alliance, COVID origins,1675or grant policy, then your June 2024 testimony would have been1676inaccurate. Correct?1677    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1678to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1679Constitution.1680    Senator Scott. Is there any document in your possession1681today that would contradict your prior congressional testimony?1682    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1683to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1684Constitution.1685    Senator Scott. Have you deleted, destroyed, or instructed1686anyone to destroy records after learning Congress was1687investigating these matters?1688    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1689to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1690Constitution.1691    Senator Scott. Are you aware of anyone who did?1692    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1693to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1694Constitution.1695    Senator Scott. As you know, Dr. Morens now faces charges1696related to destroying records while you distanced yourself from1697him. Is that fair to a decades-long friend?1698    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1699to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1700Constitution.1701    Senator Scott. When is the last time you spoke to him?1702    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1703to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1704Constitution.1705    Senator Scott. In hindsight, are you disappointed in how1706you handled COVID? Do you have any regrets?1707    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1708to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1709Constitution.1710    Senator Scott. Dr. Fauci, I want to close with this. Here1711is how you impacted my family and people close to me. I have1712daughters with children. You cannot imagine the questions they1713had around vaccines for their kids and themselves, and the1714pressure, the unbelievable pressure to make the right decision1715for their health. I can tell you pregnant women who worked with1716me were so scared because every time they went to the doctor1717they were told something different about taking the vaccine,1718and you caused this.1719    Imagine being a mom trying to protect their kids or an1720expectant mother trying to figure out what to do? Every three1721weeks a doctor tells you a new set of guidance on a vaccine.1722The haphazard information you released and pushed on the1723American people, with little research, is appalling, and why1724there is so much distrust in our institutions today.1725    That trust is crucial to public health, and you, more than1726any person or event in my lifetime, have destroyed that trust1727for millions of Americans. You lied to hundreds of millions of1728people amid the worst public health crisis in a century. You1729failed to follow your own guidance. You forced people to watch1730their loved ones die alone over the phone. It is disgusting.1731You destroyed the Federal Government's credibility when it1732comes to public health. We have entire generations of Americans1733who rightfully so do not trust our institution to keep people1734safe because of you. This has destroyed decades of progress and1735lifetimes of work because you wanted to fuel your own ego and1736be the center of attention.1737    What would you do differently, knowing what you know today,1738Dr. Fauci?1739    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1740to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1741Constitution.1742    Senator Scott. All of the evidence is right here and you1743still cannot bring yourself to tell the truth or apologize1744because you received an autopen pardon from a staffer in the1745Biden White House. If we have another pandemic tomorrow,1746millions could die because of what you did, what you did to1747make Americans lose trust in their government when it comes to1748medicine and health care.1749    How many families have you apologized to, who had to watch1750their loved ones die alone? You breached public trust and now1751you are hiding behind a fraudulent pardon. Your legacy will not1752be as a man who has saved America from COVID but as a man who1753destroyed the public trust in America's public health1754institutions in exchange for five minutes of fame. This is how1755history will remember you.1756    I yield back.1757    Chairman Paul. Senator Kim.17581759                OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR KIM17601761    Senator Kim. Thank you, Dr. Fauci, for coming out in front1762of this Committee. I know it is not what you would want. It is1763not what you deserve.1764    I just want to say, and start by just saying thank you to1765you for your service to this Nation. I did not know much about1766you prior to the pandemic. I came to learn about you as many1767Americans did, but I also had the opportunity to talk to you1768and engage with you as someone who is a member of the Select1769Committee on the Coronavirus Crisis over in the House of1770Representative.1771    When I learned about your background, 38 years as the1772Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious1773Disease, appointed by President Reagan, served under seven1774Presidents, four Republicans and three Democrats, I admire that1775greatly. I myself had a chance to serve in the Executive1776Branch, serve in government under both a Republican President1777and a Democratic President. I believe that we need more of1778that, more of that type of work, a place where we can1779understand our jobs not as coming from a place of partisanship1780and politics but that of just public service.1781    Right now I feel the hyper-partisanship growing in this1782country in dangerous ways. I feel it much more present here on1783the Hill than I did back when I served as a nonpartisan career1784public servant at the State Department. I worry about it. I1785worry about what kind of trajectory we are on as a country and1786what this causes when it comes next for public service and1787those willing to step up for our Nation.1788    It is not just in the attacks, but we see it brought out1789with the cuts to funding, to the firing of Federal workers, to1790the demonization of their motivations, people calling our1791public servants ``criminals,'' thinking that they are there1792solely to undermine others that are trying to engage.1793    I look at it right now. It is not just that the people are1794being attacked, our public servants being attacked, but that it1795is undermining the very nature of the work of governance. These1796cuts to HHS funding, to NIH funding, to the grants, cuts to the1797researchers doing the critical work to find cures and1798medicines.1799    These firings and these cuts, they are creating a chilling1800effect, honestly, a chilling effect for the next generation of1801people who might consider stepping up to serve our Nation, to1802be the next generation of researchers, who now are wondering1803whether or not this is the right thing for them to do at a time1804when they see some of their colleagues or those that they1805looked up to being attacked, their funding being cut.1806    Researchers that I talked to, who are now either leaving1807the country or considering leaving the country to do their1808work, because of the sheer unpredictability of America, that1809this Nation so great, so powerful, has now been crippled with1810this sense of unpredictability and unreliability. That is not1811the type of country that I hope we strive to be.1812    I raise this because these attacks upon Dr. Fauci, it is1813not just about him. It is sending signals to others, others who1814are thinking about serving our country, our scientists, our1815doctors, our health care professionals, our researchers, trying1816to show to them that if you do not get in line with the1817politics that you will also potentially be subject to attacks.1818    From the work that he has done from HIV/acquired1819immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) to Ebola to COVID, we have1820seen him try to engage in these crises. They are not easy,1821especially when it is a novel disease, when you do not know1822what comes next. A lot of unknowns. Having to make decisions1823without the full breadth of knowledge we always wish we had in1824hindsight. But there is nothing perfect, no perfect clarity1825when it comes to pandemics, when it comes to crises.1826    I worked in national security in wars and crises. I made1827judgment calls, gave my best advice to generals, to1828Ambassadors, even to a President. Did I get it all right? No.1829Did I do my best? I did everything I thought I could with the1830information that I had.1831    The public servants, they do this work because they love1832this country and that they strive to improve it. It is not an1833easy job, but it is because there is so much at stake in our1834country. But these public servants do it because they are in1835the arena.1836    I just want to end by just reading a portion of this,1837because I think it is important as we are thinking about how to1838be able to treat public servants to this country, to think1839through this. In the words of Teddy Roosevelt saying, ``It is1840not the critic who counts. It is not the man who points out how1841the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have1842done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually1843in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood;1844who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and1845again, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best1846knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at1847the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly,1848so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid1849souls who neither know victory nor defeat.''1850    Thank you for your service, Dr. Fauci. I yield back.1851    Chairman Paul. Senator Hawley.18521853              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HAWLEY18541855    Senator Hawley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Nothing says1856honesty like taking the Fifth, huh, Doc? Let's try something.1857What day of the week is it today?1858    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1859to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1860Constitution.1861    Senator Hawley. What color tie are you wearing?1862    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1863to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1864Constitution.1865    Senator Hawley. What color is the carpet in front of you?1866    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1867to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1868Constitution.1869    Senator Hawley. Let's just get one thing straight. You do1870not have any rights under the Fifth Amendment, because you have1871been pardoned, as you very well know, as the Supreme Court has1872been clear for a century or more, Brown v. Walker, 1896, when1873he has been pardoned he may not stand upon his privilege. You1874know that. Your lawyer is sitting behind you, now shifting1875nervously in their chairs. They know it. This is not about the1876Constitution. This is not about the law. This is about1877contempt, contempt for this body and contempt for the American1878people.1879    But I think I know why you are doing it. It is because you1880do not want to answer questions. It is because you did all1881kinds of terrible things. It is because during the pandemic you1882got rich, didn't you? You got rich while people were dying,1883hundreds of thousands of Americans, over a million in the end,1884and you were getting rich. Not only were you doing that, you1885were using Federal employees, with taxpayer money, to apply for1886and solicit cash prizes for you, personally, cash prizes,1887totaling over a million dollars. You did all of that during the1888pandemic, didn't you? That is a question.1889    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1890to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1891Constitution.1892    Senator Hawley. Do you remember Greg Folkers? Who was that?1893    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1894to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1895Constitution.1896    Senator Hawley. Your chief of staff is the answer. Do you1897remember Patricia Conrad? Who was that?1898    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1899to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1900Constitution.1901    Senator Hawley. She was your personal assistant. What were1902these individuals doing in the depth of the pandemic, in1903November 2020, when millions of Americans were suffering from1904COVID? What were they doing? I tell you what they were doing.1905Folkers was, on your behalf, soliciting and gathering1906information for a cash award.\1\1907---------------------------------------------------------------------------1908    \1\ The chart referenced by Senator Hawley appears in the Appendix1909on page 65.1910---------------------------------------------------------------------------1911    Let's look at it. We have his email right here, right over1912my shoulder. Folkers says, ``I'm working on this nomination for1913the Dan David Award for Fauci. We need to beef up the COVID1914part. Do you have language in the can that you can share that1915delineates how we responded in new ways to COVID?'' He send1916this to multiple Federal employees.1917    What was the Dan David Award? Do you remember, Doc?1918    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1919to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1920Constitution.1921    Senator Hawley. It was a $900,000 cash award, $900,000 cash1922award. And he got it, because he used Federal employees to get1923it. This was not the only award, was it, Dr. Fauci? In fact,1924you applied for and received at least eight other Federal cash1925prizes, on Federal time, using Federal employees and Federal1926resources. Here they are over my shoulder.1927    Besides the Dan David award you have the Partnership for1928Public Service (PPS). You have the Adelson Prize. You have the1929Smithsonian Award. You have the National Academy of Medicine1930Award. You have the CDC Foundation. In fact, you turned your1931staff into a full-time application machine. You actually wrote1932to people and said, ``Do you think maybe I would qualify?'' And1933you got cash for all of this. It was not just one or two1934employees, was it? In fact, you used eight separate Federal1935employees, on Federal time, using Federal resources, to solicit1936cash awards. Isn't that true?1937    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1938to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1939Constitution.1940    Senator Hawley. Here they are right over my shoulder. Here1941is all of them, the people that you used, Federal employees, so1942that you could go and get cash money. The most hilarious part1943is that you were not content to even dragoon them into applying1944for all of these cash awards. You then had them go out to the1945ethics agencies and ethics watchdogs and demand that you be1946able to get the money. That is right. We have it in your1947emails.1948    Your staff and employees, on Federal time, using Federal1949resources, being paid with Federal dollars, are soliciting cash1950for you, and then they are turning around and saying to the1951agency, ``We don't want just an answer. We want to get to yes,1952because Fauci wants the money. He wants it. We want to get to1953yes, and yes takes time.'' This is your chief of staff again,1954using Federal email to pressure the agency's own ethics people,1955so that you could get money, so that you could get rich. It1956violated the law, didn't it, Dr. Fauci? Didn't it? It violated1957the law, didn't it?1958    Dr. Fauci. Is that a question?1959    Senator Hawley. It is a question. You can answer. Go ahead.1960    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1961to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1962Constitution.1963    Senator Hawley. Federal law, as you very well know,1964prohibits the solicitation of cash awards or other personal1965benefits for Federal employees, and it certainly prohibits1966using your own employees to do this. 5 CFR 2635.205(b), it says1967it right there in black and white, you cannot use Federal1968resources, Federal dollars, Federal employees, Federal offices,1969Federal email, Federal time to solicit cash awards, and you did1970all of it. The worst part is, thousands of people were dying1971while you were doing It.1972    You were supposed to be the Nation's doctor, and you are1973playing one on TV, but this is what you were doing with your1974time. Isn't that true?1975    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1976to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1977Constitution.1978    Senator Hawley. Yes, I can see why. I can certainly see1979why. You know what I cannot quite figure out is why you were so1980obsessed with it, because you were already rich. I mean, your1981scheme worked here. I mean, your net worth now is north of $121982million. You got over a million dollars in cash awards during1983COVID, during a 12-month, 24-month span during COVID. A million1984bucks you knocked down in cash money, using Federal resources.1985Now you are worth more than $12 million. You have a pension1986that in its first year paid out north of $400,000 a year. A1987million people dead. You are getting rich. A million people1988dead. You are using Federal employees to get cash awards for1989you. A million people dead, and you are here taking the Fifth,1990because you do not want to admit that what really happened in1991all that time was a multi-month, multi-year course of self-1992dealing. Isn't that true, Dr. Fauci?1993    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline1994to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the1995Constitution.1996    Senator Hawley. Yes, well, silence is admission. Here is1997the real thing. At the end of the day it was not just about the1998money, really, was it? It was really about a power trip. I1999mean, through all of this you want to be the most famous2000scientist in the world. You were so focused on getting every2001award and every drop of cash that you could, all because you2002wanted to be on TV, you wanted to be the Sun God of Science,2003you wanted to be the guy who was in charge of it all, you2004wanted to lambast Trump, you wanted to make sure that nobody2005else stole your spotlight. You wanted to be the guy.2006    You had time to sit for In Style magazine. Here is what you2007were doing with your time. You could sit for In Style magazine,2008but you cannot answer questions to the American people. You2009could sit for In Style magazine, but you are here taking the2010Fifth. You could sit for In Style magazine and get a million2011bucks in cash awards, but now the cat's got your tongue. I bet2012he does.2013    I tell you what. Here is my conclusion from all of this.2014This was really all about you the whole time. Somewhere along2015the way you lost your way. You may have been a good public2016servant at one time. I don't know. But I can tell you from2017reading your emails now, from looking at what you did, how you2018used your employees, somewhere along the line it became all2019about you. You became a narcissist and a megalomaniac and a2020liar. You have lied to the American people, and you have lied2021to this body. You have disgraced your profession by doing it.2022You called yourself the most famous scientist in the world. You2023have done more to harm science than anybody in my lifetime, and2024I hope you will go home and write that in your diary.2025    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.2026    Chairman Paul. Senator Fetterman.20272028             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR FETTERMAN20292030    Senator Fetterman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Fauci, I am2031not here to perhaps attack you or defend or anything. It is2032really just more, honestly, I just want to acknowledge, I have2033had members of my family die from COVID, and now I also grieve2034for people that I have met that have lost their business2035through the pandemic, and they will never be the same.2036    During the pandemic I was the Lieutenant Governor, so we2037were in the middle of all of that maelstrom, trying to find the2038right balance between protect life and protect the economics2039for all of it. I am not sure if we got it all right or wrong,2040but without a doubt I continue to question myself.2041    One, it is not about much more your regrets, but I have2042one, and that is early on that there was the theory that the2043virus could have emerged from the lab, and early on that became2044like a right-wing kind of theory, and I thought it seemed to2045make sense. Now, there was a really advanced lab that was close2046by, and then you have this unknown virus out. But that became a2047very partisan thing, and it seems now it is more and more2048emerging theory that that would have come from the lab.2049    Now, I hope, I think that the next time our Nation is2050facing something like this we are not becoming, as I might have2051been, blinded by the partisan idea that maybe the truth might2052come from a side that is different than you are. But I think we2053should really be willing to pursue truth, no matter where that2054may have emerged after all of that.2055    I now cede the remaining back to the Chair. Thank you.2056    Chairman Paul. Senator Moreno.20572058              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MORENO20592060    Senator Moreno. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will echo2061Senator Johnson's comments about your opening statement, Mr.2062Chairman. I think it was dead on, very well done.2063    Mr. Fauci, do you know who David Schertler is?2064    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2065to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2066Constitution.2067    Senator Moreno. Fifth Amendment of the Constitution. What2068does the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution say?2069    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2070to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2071Constitution.2072    Senator Moreno. No. I am just asking you what it says.2073    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2074to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2075Constitution.2076    Senator Moreno. I am going to give the Constitution to my2077aide. He will bring it over to you so you can have it for2078future reference. I think it something that every American2079should know what the Constitution says. Do you know who wrote2080the Fifth Amendment?2081    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2082to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2083Constitution.2084    Senator Moreno. So you are invoking a right that you do not2085know who wrote it or what it says. Is that correct?2086    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2087to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2088Constitution.2089    Senator Moreno. Wow. Let me tell you who David Schertler2090is, for the audience, because he was ejected by the Chairman.2091He is a high-profile criminal attorney. He has represented some2092really great people, like Senator Bob Menendez. Maybe that is2093somebody who my Democrat colleagues may remember, took gold2094bars as bribes from the Egyptians. There is an article here in2095the Washington Free Beacon that talks about why you would hire2096a guy like David Schertler. The comment is, ``If you are in2097deep shit, that is who you call.'' Do you feel like you are in2098deep shit?2099    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2100to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2101Constitution.2102    Senator Moreno. Clearly what you think today is that2103somehow you are above reproach. Somehow you feel like you don't2104need to be treated like a normal American. Can you do me a2105favor, in the audience, and stand up if during the time of the2106COVID pandemic you were called a racist for calling the virus2107the ``Wuhan virus'' or the ``China virus,'' if thought the six-2108foot rule was total crap, if you thought the vaccine was not2109something that you should take, if you thought it was2110outrageous the way the mask policy was rolled out, if you were2111fired from your job for not taking that vaccine, including2112members of the military, if you thought closing schools was2113catastrophically stupid, and that you thought that during these2114times, saying these things made you somehow a lesser human2115being?2116    Dr. Fauci, could you just turn around and look at the2117people behind you? You are not willing to do that? It is not a2118question, not a question. To your lawyers, it is not a2119question. It is a request. All you have to do is look up from2120your lawyers, and look at the people who were absolutely shamed2121for saying what we know now to be the truth. You can't even2122look at them? That is a question. Are you able to look at them?2123You can sit down, in the audience.2124    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2125to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2126Constitution.2127    Senator Moreno. There was a mom in Ohio during the depth of2128the coronavirus pandemic. She decided to go to a high school2129football game for her son. They had not been out much. The kids2130had been learning at school, and then the school got shut down.2131They had not really gotten much out of that education, as any2132parent knew that remote learning was no learning at all.2133    It was a Friday night. Her son wanted to go watch a buddy2134go play football. So they went to the stadium. They sat alone,2135far from everybody else, just a mom, a dad, a few kids. They2136didn't feel they needed to wear masks, because it was stupid,2137because they were outside, they all lived together, they are2138not near anybody.2139    Dr. Fauci, do you know what happened to that mom and that2140family? That is a question.2141    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2142to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2143Constitution.2144    Senator Moreno. They were dragged out of that stadium and2145arrested. Those policies were put in place because you had2146moronic politicians that listened to the words of a2147megalomaniac who was more interested in having met a Kardashian2148than the suffering of the American people. That is you. Your2149advice to communities like that, to idiotic politicians who2150enforced those rules, arrested that mom for watching a football2151game with her own family, outside.2152    When that story broke, I said to myself, I cannot stand2153idly on the side and watch this happening. It was about six2154years ago today that I decided I am going to give up my2155businesses, sell them all, run for office, run for the U.S.2156Senate. Here I am, sitting in front of you, six years later,2157saying, ``Who the fuck do you think you were for doing that?''2158It is a total disgrace what you did to this country. If my2159Democrat colleagues are standing there defending you, I hope2160the voters of the United States of America (USA) watch the2161clips of every one of you doting on a guy who was more2162interested in being a celebrity than saving American people.2163    I will make it my mission to make certain that every single2164one of those Democrats who did that will see that clip over and2165over and over again, because there is no defense of what you2166did. You may have had a 50-plus year legacy of public service,2167but it ends in total and complete disgrace.2168    Let me ask you, an opportunity to answer one question. Will2169you apologize, just apologize, to the people who you harmed2170through your actions? Do you have the dignity to just say you2171are sorry?2172    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2173to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2174Constitution.2175    Senator Moreno. You won't apologize to the military members2176who Joe Biden summarily dismissed from the military for not2177taking a vaccine?2178    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2179to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2180Constitution.2181    Senator Moreno. Will you apologize to the business owners2182that lost their business, shattered their lives, and they will2183never recover?2184    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2185to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2186Constitution.2187    Senator Moreno. Will you apologize to the moms who had to2188force their infant children, two, three, four-year-olds to put2189masks on, and what that did and how that traumatized those2190kids?2191    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2192to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2193Constitution.2194    Senator Moreno. Will you apologize to the family members of2195the people who died because they took your advice and not only2196got the first vaccine but the five, six other boosters, that2197they did not need?2198    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2199to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2200Constitution.2201    Senator Moreno. Will you apologize that that mom from Ohio2202for being arrested for watching a football game with her2203family?2204    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2205to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2206Constitution.2207    Senator Moreno. So you did not know who wrote the Fifth2208Amendment. It is James Madison. Lived in this town. I could2209only wonder what he would think of somebody like you, invoking2210his writings to shield culpability for the actions that you2211took.2212    It is no secret why you have to hire the biggest dirtbag2213attorney on the planet, because of what you did. I hope you are2214paying him well. I hope that, one way or the other, somewhere,2215sometime, you answer for your crimes.2216    Chairman Paul. Senator Ernst.22172218               OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ERNST22192220    Senator Ernst. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this2221important hearing today.2222    Dr. Fauci, Americans have not forgotten the tragic stories2223of people who lost loved ones during COVID and those that were2224denied a chance to say goodbye to their family members that2225were in hospitals or residing in nursing homes, because of the2226COVID-19 protocols. Americans have not forgotten the mandates,2227the adverse reactions to vaccines, the government2228misinformation, social media censorship, hotlines to tattle on2229their neighbors, the forced school closures, the tragic rise in2230suicides, or those businesses that were forced to close during2231lockdowns.\1\2232---------------------------------------------------------------------------2233    \1\ The chart submitted by Senator Ernst appears in the Appendix on2234page 70.2235---------------------------------------------------------------------------2236    Americans have not forgotten the hundreds of billions of2237dollars spent by taxpayers for COVID relief, stolen by2238fraudsters who bought Rolls-Royces and yachts. These were2239taxpayer dollars. Americans have lost trust in science and2240government after the COVID response, trust which will be2241incredibly difficult for us to gain back.2242    Dr. Fauci, you have said that the science was evolving and2243that your recommendations evolved with it. But Americans2244remember you as the public face of the coronavirus response. As2245one of the Nation's most trusted voices, you urged policies you2246said were absolutely necessary, even when those policies came2247at an enormous human and economic cost. Americans deserve2248answers about reports that you may have worked with others to2249pressure the President into adopting the ``slow the spread''2250strategy and why you later sought an unconditional pardon for2251crimes you may have committed, dating back to 2014.2252    Dr. Fauci, in 2022, you had a taxpayer-funded salary of2253$480,000 a year. You were, in fact, the highest-paid Federal2254employee in the entire Federal Government, even making more2255than the NIH Director and the President of the United States.2256According to now public documents, that was due, in large part,2257to your work on biodefense. Unreported is how NIAID spent over2258$1 billion from 2009 to 2026, in biodefense and influenza2259Federal contracts and subcontracts.2260    My office uncovered records on USAspending.gov, that show2261from 2015 to 2020, NIAID paid out $515,418 in subcontracts to2262Harbin Veterinary Institute in Harbin, China, including2263$100,000 a few days after it opened a BSL-4 biolab in 2018.2264That very same institute was criticized for doing gain-of-2265function bird flu research in 2013, and yet you were funding2266them for years after that, sending U.S. taxpayer dollars to2267China.2268    These contracts, which we also traced to NIAID, show U.S.2269taxpayers funded gain-of-function researchers in the2270Netherlands and in Wisconsin, funding the same folks whose2271controversial work led President Obama to pause this exact type2272of dangerous pandemic research.2273    Dr. Fauci, did you know that the NIH's billion-dollar Sears2274contract programs were funding gain-of-function researcher in2275China, the United States and in the Netherlands?2276    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2277to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2278Constitution.2279    Senator Ernst. Dr. Fauci, Dr. Deborah Birx wrote in her2280book that you and President Obama's former CDC Director were at2281a Saturday, March 14, 2020, meeting at her home, two days2282before the President announced his 15 Days to Slow the Spread2283effort. Your now-released diary said the meeting was a week2284before that. Dr. Birx said you all were trying to trap the2285President into having no other options. She wrote your plan was2286to, ``block any of the President's escape routes'' so, ``he2287would have no choice but to agree to our flatten-the-curve2288measures.''\1\2289---------------------------------------------------------------------------2290    \1\ The book citation referenced by Senator Ernst appears in the2291Appendix on page 71.2292---------------------------------------------------------------------------2293    Yes or no, Dr. Fauci. Did you try to block or trap2294President Trump into the Slow the Spread, flatten-the-curve2295measures in March 2020?2296    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2297to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2298Constitution.2299    Senator Ernst. When the COVID-19 virus broke out in Wuhan,2300China, you, Dr. Fauci, knew pretty much right away that NIH had2301funded Chinese labs, including those doing coronavirus2302research. There is email traffic from early January 2020, where2303your staff was flagging for you that NIH funded coronavirus2304research at the Wuhan lab through EcoHealth Alliance, yet few2305Americans knew we funded the Wuhan because the funding went2306through a sub-award and was not reported to the public2307database, like USAspending.gov, as it should have been. Also,2308EcoHealth violated Federal law by failing to report, in its2309research papers, how much taxpayer funding it spent on that2310research.2311    At my request, the Government Accountability Office (GAO)2312helped track down that $1.4 million of U.S. taxpayer money that2313was sent to the Wuhan Institute of Virology, both by you, Dr.2314Fauci, and through USAID. But first it passed through EcoHealth2315Alliance, which I helped to get defunded through the National2316Defense Authorization Act (NDAA).2317    Dr. Fauci, did you intentionally use sub-award funding to2318obscure NIH funding of Chinese biolabs and coronavirus2319research?2320    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2321to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2322Constitution.2323    Senator Ernst. NIAID awarded multimillion-dollar grants to2324a number of scientists shortly after they wrote publicly in the2325Proximal Origins paper that the COVID virus likely came from2326nature. Though documents Chairman Paul released last week show2327in private those same scientists were much more open to the2328virus being from a lab. In 2023, Representative Jordan2329insinuated that you basically gave a $9 million bribe in the2330form of an NIH grant to NIH-funded virologists to say the virus2331likely was from nature.2332    Dr. Fauci, yes or no. Did you reward the Proximal Origin2333authors by giving them NIAID grants or contracts?2334    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2335to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2336Constitution.2337    Senator Ernst. Dr. Fauci, we have learned that U.S.2338coronavirus researchers at the University of North Carolina2339(UNC) shipped, ``humanized or transgenic mice to China by2340around 2017 for use in their dangerous coronavirus work.''2341Under your NIAID coronavirus, researchers also used aborted2342baby body parts in mice research, and taxpayers paid for them2343to do that. NIH-funded coronavirus researcher Dr. Ralph Baric2344and his colleagues at UNC put parts of livers, thymuses, and2345human fetal lung that they got from aborted, almost five-month-2346old human babies. They put those parts in their research mice.2347They disgustingly named them BLTL mice, and wrote they had2348created a, ``sandwich'' of aborted body parts in the mice. Get2349it, folks? BLT. A BLT sandwich.2350    Your Rocky Mountain Laboratories (RML) lab employees in2351Montana also ordered and used aborted baby body parts in their2352taxpayer-funded research, and emails show how they planned to2353use those mice for post-COVID work.2354    NIH funded putting aborted babies' fingers and scalps off2355the heads of aborted babies and putting them into the backs of2356research mice. The scalps later grew fine baby hair in the2357mice. They even included those disgusting photos in their2358research paper that you funded. Not all of those were research2359on coronaviruses, but some were.2360    Thankfully, the current NIH Director has said no more of2361this.2362    Dr. Fauci, yes or no. Do you think that human aborted parts2363should be put into mice for coronavirus research?2364    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2365to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2366Constitution.2367    Senator Ernst. Mr. Chairman, would you direct the witness2368to answer the questions that we have been asking?2369    Senator Johnson. He probably would if he was here. I can2370direct it, but I think we understand his answer.2371    Senator Ernst. We do understand that Americans are asking2372for accountability, Dr. Fauci, and your silence is very2373telling. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.2374    Senator Johnson [presiding.] Senator Moody.23752376               OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MOODY23772378    Senator Moody. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know I am the2379most junior member of the Senate here, showing from where I2380sit. I just got here last year. Many of you may remember I was2381the Attorney General (AG) in Florida who fought back against2382the lockdowns, the school closures, the church closures,2383everything to embrace sanity and science.2384    We fought back. We got ridiculed for it. We did not just2385call people names. We actually empaneled a grand jury, of2386people of all walks of life, all political persuasions. So that2387is how I came here, fighting for a free State amongst States2388that had locked their own people down.2389    We are now called the Free State of Florida, and I believe2390our responsibility here is to make sure that government2391remembers the people are our bosses, that we report to them,2392that we are accountable to them. Government should not operate2393for itself. Government operates on behalf of and for the2394American people. Any time we get close to reporting back to our2395bosses about what government has done or how it has been abused2396or how individuals who are employed by the government had acted2397in their own self-interest or against the interests of the2398American people, every time we get close, if we start2399uncovering outrageous fraud, we will have a hearing, and the2400tactics have been to not show up. So you will have all of us2401over here trying to drill down on why we have been giving money2402that actually works against American citizens, and no one shows2403up.2404    Today, there seems to be a different tactic. Today, we have2405Democrats showing up and trying to spin why we should not even2406be having this hearing, to report back to our bosses. As one2407said, ``Today's hearing does damage. It will deter others from2408public service.'' Another said, ``This hearing is designed to2409entrap you.'' One fell all over himself flattering you, thank2410you for your service multiple times, quoting Man in the Arena.2411Another said that ``we are demeaning first responders, and2412today is a sad play in a repeated playbook.'' I mean, all of2413their time was used on why we should not be having the hearing,2414to report back to our bosses, and give the people2415accountability.2416    I would like to talk about that, because I believe that the2417trust the American people place in our public health2418institutions, and what happened to that trust during COVID, is2419important, because in a public health emergency they are asked2420to make extraordinary sacrifices, based on advice given to them2421by the government that are supposed to be working for them. For2422that system to work, the public has to be able to trust the2423people giving them instructions. That trust depends on candor.2424Would you agree with that, Dr. Fauci?2425    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2426to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2427Constitution.2428    Senator Moody. When the evidence is uncertain, officials2429need to say so, and recommendations are based on assumptions2430rather than hard data. They need to say so. When they get2431something wrong, they need to own it. When the trust is lost2432and the consequences extend far beyond any single pandemic, the2433next time public health officials genuinely need Americans to2434listen, millions of people may simply ignore them, or not2435believe them.2436    Dr. Fauci, you were undeniably the face of the Federal2437Government's COVID response. You said so yourself in your2438diary. You said, ``It's not hyperbole to say I have become the2439most famous and talked about person in the country.''2440    I want to understand how we got here. Let's start at the2441beginning. On March 8, 2020, you appeared on 60 Minutes to2442discuss the spread of COVID-19. You were specifically asked to2443clear up the confusion and misinformation surrounding masks.2444You told the American people, ``Right now, in the United2445States, people should not be walking around with a mask.'' The2446interviewer immediately stopped you and said, ``Are you sure of2447it, because people are listening really closely to this.''2448Instead of walking back or qualifying your statement in any2449way, you doubled down. ``There's no reason to be walking around2450with a mask.'' When you are in the middle of an outbreak2451wearing a mask it might make people feel a little better. It2452might even block a droplet. But it's not providing the perfect2453protection that people think it is. Often there are unintended2454consequences, people keep fiddling with their mask. They keep2455touching their face.2456    Just a few weeks later the CDC released its guidance,2457recommending that Americans wear masks in public. You were2458asked to explain your original recommendation. You emphasized a2459very different consideration. You said, ``Well, back then the2460critical issue was to save the masks for the people who really2461needed them, because it was felt there was a shortage of2462masks.''2463    I want everybody to sit with that. The critical issue2464driving your initial recommendation to the American public was2465scarcity, logistics, not medical evidence. So when you told the2466American people there was no reason to wear a mask, what was2467your principal objective, giving them an honest assessment of2468the medical evidence or discouraging them from consuming a2469scarce supply of masks?2470    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2471to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2472Constitution.2473    Senator Moody. Unfortunately, that was just the beginning2474of a broader pattern. Let's talk about the six-foot distancing2475rule. On April 5, 2020, in an interview on Columbia2476Broadcasting System (CBS), said, ``Every time I get to that2477podium in the White House briefing room I always essentially2478plead with people, 'Please take a look at those very simple2479guidelines of physical separation,' and they are very clear.2480Physically separate six feet away.'' Yet when Congress finally2481asked you, in 2024, what science supported that evidence, six-2482foot distance rule for COVID, you admitted you were not aware2483of any studies supporting it. Incredibly, you said the six-foot2484rule sort of just appeared, and described it as an empiric2485decision that wasn't based on data.2486    That rule had real consequences. Schools did not open back2487up. Businesses did not open back up. Churches did not open back2488up. I could go on and on and on. Americans were kept physically2489separated from one another during the most difficult moments of2490their lives. Many lost loved ones during that time.2491    Dr. Fauci, did you have any evidence to support a six-foot2492separation rule when you gave that advice to Americans?2493    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2494to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2495Constitution.2496    Senator Moody. All right. Let's look at the lockdowns then.2497By 2022, the consequences of prolonged COVID lockdowns on our2498children were clear, from delayed development to social2499isolation, which is probably why you were asked in July 20222500whether you would recommend locking down schools again, and you2501said, ``First of all, I didn't recommend locking anything2502down.''2503    But now we have your diary, and it tells a very different2504story from the one you told the public. I will quote, ``I spoke2505with Bill Di Blasio, the mayor of New York City (NYC), and2506convinced him, based on what I was saying publicly in my2507conversation tonight to close the NYC schools. He had already2508decided, based on what I was saying on TV. I went on to tell2509him he should close the bars and restaurants in NYC, and he2510said he would do this, based on my recommendation.'' You even2511said that you told the President we should shut the whole2512country down.2513    Dr. Fauci, how do you square telling the American people2514publicly that you did not recommend locking anything down, with2515our own diary entry, kept on Federal Government equipment,2516saying that your recommendation is what convinced the mayor and2517the President to lock things down?2518    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2519to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2520Constitution.2521    Senator Moody. Now I just want to make clear that when, in2522Florida, we were pleading with people to give us advice based2523on scientific evidence, that we were getting these conflicting2524statement by you that did not match scientific data. In fact,2525when we empaneled a grand jury, the grand jury's conclusion,2526not surprising to anyone--and by the way, we are still the only2527State to have empaneled a grand jury. I was the only Attorney2528General to do this. We did this in 2023--that conclusion was2529the lockdown, mask, and social distancing advice administered2530by Federal agencies and implemented by certain local, State,2531and Federal agencies was not based on the best available2532scientific data. In fact, many recommendations in their2533accompanying mandate departed significantly from available2534research. Again, people from all walks of life, all political2535persuasions, that is what they found.2536    Yet, during that time, while you were giving those2537statements, knowing there was no scientific basis for it, and2538we know now you knew it because we have your diary entries, you2539called the Governor that I worked with, to fight to keep2540Washington D.C. out of our State, so that we could indeed2541respect the rights of our citizens. You called our Governor,2542Governor DeSantis, and I am going to quote this so I get it2543right, right out of your journals, ``a total jerk,'' that he is2544``a complete disgrace,'' that he ``is blocking local2545authorities from mandating masks in various locations,2546including schools.'' You were very concerned and upset that we2547were actively, and I am going to quote, ``criticizing you,''2548and we talked to virtually every day about being wrong on2549everything.2550    What is astounding is that you wrote you feared because of2551that, because we were questioning our government, because we2552were fighting back for the truth from our government, from2553scientifically based recommendations, because we were pushing2554for that, you said you feared that our democracy is in dire2555danger. Thank goodness we have people up here that I work with2556who understand our role, which is to report to our bosses, the2557people, because they are in charge.2558    Calling for our government to be honest with us and2559transparent with us and accountable to us, that is a democracy.2560What you did is the opposite, and I cannot believe I have to2561explain this to someone who represented our government and some2562of the most important issues for so long.2563    Before I conclude, if I can just put up our pardon.\1\ This2564is a pardon you have heard so much about. Dr. Fauci, the only2565other person that got a pardon like this, I believe, had a last2566name of Biden. This pardon goes back to, and if you will see,2567January 1, 2014. Did you talk to President Biden and ask for2568this pardon?2569---------------------------------------------------------------------------2570    \1\ The pardon referenced by Senator Moody appears in the Appendix2571on page 72.2572---------------------------------------------------------------------------2573    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2574to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2575Constitution.2576    Senator Moody. Who did you talk to in the White House about2577this pardon?2578    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2579to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2580Constitution.2581    Senator Moody. Did you specifically ask that it be dated2582back to the beginning of 2014?2583    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2584to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2585Constitution.2586    Senator Moody. Did you do that so that you would be given2587immunity going back to the beginning of 2014?2588    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2589to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2590Constitution.2591    Senator Moody. I am just very interested why it was this2592date. Did it have anything to do with the fact that 2014 was2593also the year that the NIAID or NIH began funding EcoHealth2594Alliances, understanding the risk of bat coronavirus emergence2595grant?2596    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2597to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2598Constitution.2599    Senator Moody. This is the same grant that funded the work2600on bat coronaviruses at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.2601    Millions of Americans are questioning what happened during2602COVID, why we were given misleading information, misleading2603advice, why you gave conflicting statements, based on, I guess,2604how you were feeling that day. Americans, rightfully--we lost2605over 1 million Americans--they should be insulted when the2606Democrats insult our Chair, that he is doing this because he is2607on an obsessive mission to go after one man. Could his2608obsessive mission be to find out why a million Americans died,2609and who might be responsible for that, and where that started?2610Could that be his mission, Dr. Fauci?2611    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2612to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2613Constitution.2614    Senator Moody. After everything we have just walked2615through, can you sit here today and tell the American people,2616our bosses, that you bear no responsibility for their collapse2617in trust of their government?2618    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2619to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2620Constitution.2621    Chairman Paul [presiding.] Time is expired. We are going to2622do another quick round for those who remain, about five2623minutes. Any questions that have not come up that are pressing.2624Let's try not to re-go over territory that has already been2625done.2626    I will begin by asking unanimous consent (UC) to insert2627into the record documents that show that the CIA transferred2628funds to NIAID through interagency agreement.\1\ Hearing no2629objection, so ordered.2630---------------------------------------------------------------------------2631    \1\ The documents submitted by Senator Paul appears in the Appendix2632on page 96.2633---------------------------------------------------------------------------2634    We had hoped to hear testimony from Anthony Fauci today. We2635haven't. But I think it is important that we do hear from him,2636so we will have a video we will play in a moment.2637    For years, Anthony Fauci has been the public face of saying2638this, in all likelihood, came from nature. He kept saying,2639``It's the marketplace. It's the marketplace. It's the2640marketplace.'' He has been saying that on television up until2641recently.2642    But what we find is that what he was saying in public is2643different than what he was saying in private. In January, in2644private, he wrote, that ``It looks like the wet market was a2645superspreader event. It didn't originate there. We know that2646some of the earliest deaths and sickness came from somewhere2647else.''2648    But then for years and years we got dishonesty. So let's2649play the video so we can see a little juxtaposition of the2650problem we are dealing with.2651    [Video plays.]2652    So repeatedly he is saying in public something different2653than what he believed in private.2654    Now, this is interesting because the first SARS outbreak in26552000-2003 was traced to a wet market, to animals there. But2656interestingly they had evidence. They had evidence that the2657animals had the disease. They also had evidence that the2658handlers had a disproportionately high number of antibodies to2659the disease. So there was evidence, and the evidence was2660presented.2661    When this came out, the same thing happened again. They did2662look at the wet market. They looked at the wet market and2663tested, I think, 80,000 animals, and did not find any animals2664that had COVID-19.2665    When they did find COVID-19 in trace samples there they2666found that the deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) or the ribonucleic2667acid (RNA) was consistent with human spread. This was known not2668later on. It did not take years. It was known in January 2020.2669    Dr. Fauci says privately he knows it did not come from the2670wet market, but as you saw, those were over a multiyear period.2671    One of the other discussions I have had with Dr. Fauci over2672the years is about natural immunity. Most infections you get a2673degree of immunity, not perfect. Some fairly perfect. Smallpox2674you just do not get again. George Washington knew this. He had2675his wife get vaccinated but he didn't because he had already2676had smallpox.2677    But there is one particular story that a man came up to me2678who had lost his wife to COVID. He said, ``We all got it. We2679all got sick, and my wife ended up getting sick enough to go to2680the hospital. But they had recovered in two weeks. She was2681still alive two to three weeks later. We had all recovered, and2682they wouldn't let us be with her.'' To this day it is one of2683the saddest things and it's just, I think all of us should2684think about this. They were not allowed to visit their mom. He2685wasn't allowed to visit his wife in the hospital. But based on2686this misunderstanding of natural immunity, that for some reason2687two weeks later they were a problem. But this was all2688promulgated by you.2689    We had the workers in the meat factories. They were2690essential. They had to keep working. Most of them got COVID.2691They got it within the first couple of weeks. Most of them were2692younger. The reassurance should have come from public health.2693The reassurance should have said, ``Congratulations. You have2694recovered.''2695    It also should be acknowledged, what is the No. 1 thing we2696can do if we get another pandemic, before we have a vaccine,2697before we have monoclonal antibodies? It would be to utilize2698natural immunity. Instead of the advice you were giving to2699Cuomo and others in New York that led to the deaths of hundreds2700of thousands of people, or tens of thousands of people, you2701could have been saying, ``Maybe the nurses taking care of the2702elderly should be people who are two weeks out from COVID2703infection.'' We could have used natural immunity as somewhat of2704a block or protection. Imperfect, but the only protection we2705had and the only thing we could have done. Instead, the nursing2706homes were seeded with people who had COVID.2707    I think the discussion of natural immunity is one where2708there was not sufficient honestly, humility. There was not2709enough presentation to encourage people. That was the only2710encouraging thing we had for a while is you have got it. You2711are very, if not impossible, close to impossible chance that2712you will die if you get it again. Everybody could have been2713reassured. Nobody was reassured. It was like, well, we don't2714know. We just don't quite understand natural immunity.2715    My favorite quote from that is from Martin Kulldorff from2716Harvard. You called him one of the people that you had to take2717down, the fringe epidemiologist, which I have never, ever heard2718a scientist call another scientist that. But he jokingly said,2719on Twitter, he said, ``Yes, we knew about natural immunity from2720486 B.C., from the time of the Athenian Plague. We lost all2721knowledge of it in 2020.'' The good news it is slowly coming2722back 2024 to 2025. We are beginning to understand what natural2723immunity is again. Not something perfect, but a useful tool2724that could have been used, but also something that could have2725helped people by telling the public, ``My goodness, you are not2726going to die now. You have a chance.'' If you have it already2727and you are 85 years old and you are at risk for it and you are2728wanting to feed your wife, and they are telling you to wear2729four masks and not be around your wife when you have already2730had it, it made no sense.2731    I visited with a man whose mom was 83, and she was dying2732from COVID. They go to the hospital in Orange County. They2733won't admit her to the hospital until she is vaccinated,2734because ``we have a policy that everybody in the hospital must2735be vaccinated.'' She's got COVID and they wanted to vaccinate2736her again.2737    At one point in time the CDC understood this. They told2738people, ``Don't get vaccinated if you have had COVID within2739three months.'' Why? Because it may give you a heightened2740immune response when you have already got a heightened immune2741response. But giving a person very sick--and many of the people2742who died from COVID died from some of this storm of response,2743this immune storm--the answer would not be try to stir up their2744immune response more by giving them a vaccine. The answer was2745actually steroids. Good old-fashioned steroids, a 37 percent2746reduction in death. It turned out to be of way more value than2747remdesivir, way more valuable than any of the other treatments.2748But I don't remember ever hearing a complimentary word on2749natural immunity or steroids or anything else.2750    I wish we could have done more today. I would have been2751willing to accept an apology today. I am sorry I made mistakes.2752We all made mistakes. At the time I thought the gain-of-2753function research, the risks of it were worth the benefits. But2754I have reassessed since 15 million people died.2755    People say, well gosh, these things never happen. We know2756it happened in 1977. We know with 100 percent certainty a virus2757escaped. In 1977, there was something called the Russian flu.2758Nobody is exactly positive how it got out. But when they2759sequenced it they found out that a flu in 1977 had exactly the2760same RNA as a 1954 one that they had in a lab and that they2761created a vaccine for. In fact, it turns out anybody born2762before 1954 was immune, and the only people who got it were2763people who were born between 1954 and 1977. But it was2764identical. The genetic sequence was identical to this vaccine2765or the virus from 1954, and that does not happen because these2766respiratory viruses are always mutating. To be identical means2767it had to have leaked from the lab, proof positive that it had.2768So we know this happens.2769    An author by the name of Young wrote a book and said there2770were 1,200 cases of significant accidents that have occurred.2771We knew all of this, and yet it was completely discounted2772because I think you were worried that if it was seen that you2773funded dangerous research that started the pandemic you would2774get blamed. It was a concerted effort. It was not just you. It2775was anybody associated with the funding, decided we needed to2776protect ourselves. Senator Johnson.2777    Senator Johnson. Mr. Chairman, you mentioned that we lost2778knowledge of natural immunity. I didn't. Dr. Fauci did. I2779suppose I had an asymptomatic case of COVID because of the very2780faulty Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) test. I never got2781vaccinated or injected. There is no way I would have done that2782because I found out enough about the Messenger ribonucleic acid2783(mRNA) gene therapy.2784    But you also brought up the issue of hospital protocols. I2785am going to be holding a public event on hospital protocols. We2786have already received a couple hundred testimonies. They are2787heart-wrenching.2788    Here is an excerpt from the testimony of the staff surgeon,2789very experienced, doctor for decades, at Providence Regional2790Medical Center, Everett, Washington. Quote, ``After our2791hospital was given remdesivir by the CDC we were provided2792misleading/inaccurate information about the drug by medical2793leadership. When I had a young trauma patient who was a perfect2794candidate for remdesivir, the infectious disease doctor on call2795told me to not give it to her because, 'she seemed like a nice2796girl.' '' He concludes, ``It was known early that remdesivir2797kills.'' I said, ``Nurses referred to it as 'run death is2798near.''2799    Again, it never made sense to me that we put all of our2800eggs in the experimental gene therapy which, if you knew2801anything about it would have avoided it like a plague. We2802sabotaged early treatment. But the only treatment we really2803approved, monoclonal antibodies, which I think basically work2804pretty well, but those were not particularly available. They2805were denied to an awful lot of patients. It was all remdesivir.2806    Based on a study that the NIH changed the endpoint from2807mortality, because it had no impact on mortality, to days2808recovery. A drug that the WHO recommended against its use in2809COVID in November 2020, but a drug that cost over $3,000 for a2810course of treatment, versus things like ivermectin,2811hydroxychloroquine, who even Dr. Fauci--I should have gotten2812that one out because I want to take this time to enter things2813in the record--said we need to have a very tight protocol on2814remdesivir because it is unknown, but hydroxychloroquine, that2815is approved. Some side effects but we have a long history of2816it.2817    Let's put up my latest chart. Again, I was tracking adverse2818events on the experimental injection. But I use this chart as a2819comparison. So you have ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine. Again,2820VAERS does not prove causation, but there is correlation. It is2821therefore safety signals. So ivermectin, over 30 years of FDA2822reports, 17 deaths per year. Hydroxychloroquine, over 38 years2823of reporting, 142 deaths per year. Remdesivir, over five and a2824half years, 546 deaths per year. The COVID injection, almost28257,000 deaths per year. Which is safest? What did the FDA freak2826us out about ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, when they turned a2827complete blind eye for the injection of gene therapy.2828    I want to enter the quote from the surgeon. By the way,2829here is the answer. Cheryl Atkinson in an interview said that2830when it comes to money we check financial ties, and my experts2831on the government panel, devising coronavirus treatment2832guidelines, which have the effect of dialing back2833hydroxychloroquine use and giving edge to remdesivir.2834    We found the 11 members reporting links to a drug company.2835Nine of them named relationships to remdesivir's maker, Gilead.2836Seven more, including two of the committee leaders, have ties2837to Gilead beyond the 11 months they had to disclose. Two were2838on Gilead's advisory board. Others were paid consultants who2839received research support and honoraria.2840    By the way, within the study, I think one of the study2841participants was an employee of Gilead. A bunch also had2842conflicts with Gilead. I wonder why. There are conflicts of2843interest. Gilead made billions of dollars off remdesivir, and2844people died.2845    In terms of ignoring safety signals--you can probably put2846that down now--this has come to light. This is Dr. Drew2847Weissman who got the Nobel Prize for the mRNA platform. He2848wrote to Dr. Fauci on February 8, 2020. ``Tony, I wanted to2849alert you to some new data we generated with our mRNA outer2850membrane protein (OMP) vaccine. Now, it was a higher fold dose,2851but that mRNA lipid nanoparticle (LNP) go to the placenta and2852fetus, measured by translation of the mRNA and cause of immune2853response in the amniotic fluid.''2854    That same day, Dr. Fauci responds, ``It would be2855interesting to see what human dose levels given intermuscular2856do.''2857    About a month later, Dr. Weissman replies. He says, ``We2858still have some concerns over the data after they tested it2859IM.''2860    Now again, there is more documentation in terms of the FDA.2861They blew it off. They said, don't worry about that. That waws2862the whole thing. That is what Peter Marks did when he was2863showing his algorithm was going to mask safety signals.2864    The last thing I want to enter into the record here--and I2865want to make the point. Why is this important? They buried the2866treatment of severely injection-injured. The fact that we have2867not acknowledged these injection injuries, these people cannot2868get treatment. They are being gaslit by their doctors, saying2869it is all in your head. The rate of the injection injured, of2870suicides, is increasing because they have given up hope,2871because our medical staffs and Federal health agencies are2872failing to acknowledge it.2873    Again, Dr. Nath was treatment, diagnosing and treating2874injection-injured in March 2021. This concerned people. So you2875have Dr. Walter Koroshetz writes Dr. Fauci. One of the points2876he made, ``There has been a steady, slow stream of reports to2877me of post-vaccination neurological conditions. Dr. Nath has2878been collecting a bunch. He has reports sent out to publish.''2879That alarmed everybody. Boy, you can't let the public know what2880is actually happening. You can't actually let the public know2881what the science is showing.2882    On April 29th, an email from Francis Collins, head of NIH,2883to Dr. Koroshetz, says, ``I find this approach troubling and2884will have the main consequence of feeing vaccine hesitancy and2885social media overreaction.''2886    Then, Dr. Lawrence Tabak writes to Francis Collins, ``I2887don't understand why Walter does not shut this thing down.''2888Why don't you shut down that, Dr. Nath, who is actually2889treating injection injured? Why? Because of vaccine hesitancy,2890and because we have any knowledge of that. The reason I have2891been advocating for this is because I know the injection2892injured. I know people who lost loved ones within days of the2893injection. We have turned our backs on them. They deserve2894acknowledgement. They deserve to be heard, seen, and believed,2895so they can get treatment.2896    I also know the doctors whose careers were destroyed2897because you denigrated things like ivermectin, and denied2898ivermectin to people in hospitals who got their kidney knocked2899out by the remdesivir but got put on ventilators, never got to2900hug their loved ones goodbye because of those hospital2901protocols. That is what your science did to people.2902    Dr. Fauci, my only question is, based on your lack of2903testimony here today, based, quite honestly, on our2904investigation into the cover-up of safety signals and injection2905injuries, we have issued letters to a number of former FDA2906officials to come in for transcribed interviews. You will be2907getting a letter today, asking for a volunteer transcribed2908interview. I would be asking, will you comply or will I have to2909subpoena you?2910    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2911to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2912Constitution.2913    Senator Johnson. Expect a subpoena. Thank you.2914    Chairman Paul. Senator Scott.2915    Senator Scott. Dr. Fauci, did you personally receive any2916royalty payments connected to COVID-related intellectual2917property?2918    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2919to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2920Constitution.2921    Senator Scott. Given that NIH receives royalty payments2922from certain pharmaceutical companies, why would any American2923believe these financial ties did not include decisions about2924which treatments were promoted or restricted?2925    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2926to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2927Constitution.2928    Senator Scott. Why doesn't NIAID publicly disclose these2929payments?2930    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2931to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2932Constitution.2933    Senator Scott. Did you partner with Bill Gates on global2934health initiatives or vaccines?2935    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2936to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2937Constitution.2938    Senator Scott. How much did Bill Gates' entities provide in2939funding to NIAID collectively since 2005?2940    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2941to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2942Constitution.2943    Senator Scott. To your knowledge, did Bill Gates partner2944with China on sensitive research?2945    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2946to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2947Constitution.2948    Senator Scott. Specifically dual-use research such as2949countermeasures or gain-of-function?2950    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2951to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2952Constitution.2953    Senator Scott. Do you know if Bill Gates partnered with2954U.S. Government classified programs?2955    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2956to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2957Constitution.2958    Senator Scott. Do you know if Bill Gates maintains an2959active national security clearance?2960    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2961to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2962Constitution.2963    Senator Scott. Did you advocate or request for Bill Gates2964to receive a security clearance?2965    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2966to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2967Constitution.2968    Senator Scott. Do you have any knowledge that NIAID or NIH,2969through HHS, sponsored or requested a security clearance for2970Bill Gates?2971    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2972to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2973Constitution.2974    Senator Scott. Around 1922, my understanding is that the2975government shifted its approach to biodefense countermeasure2976research to NIAID under your leadership, partnering with the2977Obama White House or any other U.S. Government classified2978entities on sensitive countermeasures or research?2979    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2980to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2981Constitution.2982    Senator Scott. Did your office take steps to drive2983biological research investments?2984    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2985to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2986Constitution.2987    Senator Scott. What was private industry's take on the type2988of research in the 2010 timeframe and before?2989    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2990to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2991Constitution.2992    Senator Scott. Was it considered too dangerous to conduct2993and an industry was hesitant to take this on and invest in?2994    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline2995to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the2996Constitution.2997    Senator Scott. Why did you take steps to mature the2998government's approach to biodefense?2999    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline3000to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the3001Constitution.3002    Senator Scott. Were there any specific lines of effort or3003actions you felt were needed during this time to improve the3004research, development, and fielding model?3005    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline3006to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the3007Constitution.3008    Senator Scott. How was dual use and gain-of-function3009incorporated or accounted for in maturing biodefense3010countermeasures?3011    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline3012to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the3013Constitution.3014    Senator Scott. Did you ever discuss moving gain-of-function3015countermeasures research out of government space to private3016industry space?3017    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline3018to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the3019Constitution.3020    Senator Scott. How were these private organizations3021regulated through government oversight while conducting risky3022research including gain-of-function and gene editing3023technology?3024    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline3025to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the3026Constitution.3027    Senator Scott. Did the Obama White House or any government3028entities take steps to inject funding into private industry?3029    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline3030to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the3031Constitution.3032    Senator Scott. How do you ensure that our national security3033public health is protected when private organizations work with3034foreign countries of concern and have no government oversight,3035such as the EcoHealth Alliance research grant you funded in a3036Chinese Communist Party (CCP) military lab?3037    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline3038to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the3039Constitution.3040    Senator Scott. Give the culture of the pay-to-play at3041NAIAD, did you or anyone acting on your behalf make any payment3042or enter any arrangement in any way or fashion to secure or3043influence the broad pardon you received from President Biden?3044    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline3045to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the3046Constitution.3047    Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.3048    Chairman Paul. I would like to ask unanimous consent to3049enter into the record a letter from the Department of Energy\1\3050that confirms during Anthony Fauci's tenure that Bill Gates was3051given security clearance from 2014 to 2021. Without objection3052that will be entered into the record.3053---------------------------------------------------------------------------3054    \1\ The letter from the Department of Energy appears in the3055Appendix on page 94.3056---------------------------------------------------------------------------3057    I would also ask unanimous consent to enter into the record3058the contents of the Folder of Authorities provided to Dr.3059Fauci, including the pardon.\1\3060---------------------------------------------------------------------------3061    \1\ The Folder of Authorities provided to Dr. Fauci appears in the3062Appendix on page 73.3063---------------------------------------------------------------------------3064    Let it be clear today what we have seen. I really did want3065to hear from Dr. Fauci. I wanted to hear perhaps an apology,3066perhaps some semblance of being sorry for what happened, or3067that judgment errors were made. We did not hear any of that.3068But he was subpoenaed here to testify. He refused to answer any3069questions, even after being directed by the Chair, and being3070advised of the law requiring him to do so.3071    He has cited a privilege that is unsupported because of his3072blanket pardon and because he waived the privilege by3073testifying at the start.3074    I am going to give you one more opportunity to comply with3075the law. Limited to the period of your pardon, at any point3076between January 1, 2014, and January 19, 2025, did you destroy3077any Federal record or tell anyone else to?3078    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline3079to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the3080Constitution.3081    Chairman Paul. Given that you have an unlimited3082Presidential pardon, what is your specific objection that you3083are making?3084    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline3085to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the3086Constitution.3087    Chairman Paul. My question was limited to the period of3088your pardon only. I find your objection unsupported, and direct3089you to answer the question.3090    Dr. Fauci. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline3091to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the3092Constitution.3093    Chairman Paul. Because you refuse to answer, citing a3094privilege that is unsupported because of your pardon, and after3095being denied to do so, this Committee has scheduled a vote next3096week on a resolution certifying your contempt.3097    I think we have another question or two from Senator3098Lankford.3099    Senator Lankford. Mr. Chairman, really this is a question3100for you, and it is a question to try to figure out how do we3101get a good answer on this. Because clearly Dr. Fauci's3102attorneys are saying that he has a Fifth Amendment right. We3103have also subpoenaed him to be able to compel his testimony to3104be able to be here.3105    I happened to be in the Committee where we were also3106dealing with Lois Lerner. Lois Lerner came and testified, gave3107an opening statement, and then took the Fifth Amendment. The3108Committee then held her in contempt for that, saying you can't3109do both. You can't both testify and say I am not going to3110answer questions.3111    So the parliamentary question that I think we have to be3112able to deal with is, is this consistent with Lois Lerner, what3113she also did when she came before Congress, gave an opening3114statement, testimony, so made a statement and then refused to3115answer questions. Are we dealing with the same issue here? You3116can't make a statement and say I'm not going to make statements3117at the same time.3118    Chairman Paul. I think it is a very good question. I think3119that is something that all of us will examine over the next3120week. We are going to have a vote next week on contempt.3121    I think there is another legal question that the courts may3122have to decide upon, and that is whether or not a Presidential3123pardon that offers you complete immunity, that you can still3124claim that you need protection from immunity when you have been3125protected.3126    Because Dr. Fauci is not liable for anything, as long as he3127tells the truth, even if he admits that he destroyed records on3128a routine basis. His assistant said she destroyed a ton of3129emails. I think it was a routine thing. I think he destroyed3130throughout his career there probably thousands of emails. Even3131if he did that, as long as he answered truthfully--yes, I did,3132I didn't think that was important, I made a mistake--you can't3133be prosecuted for it. Many of the things are outside the3134statute of limitations, as well.3135    All he had to do today if he wanted to testify was to be3136honest. As long as he was honest, even about committing a3137crime, he would have no jeopardy.3138    But I think the pardon has given him more immunity than3139most people would ever get. Like if you offer a witness3140immunity in exchange for testimony, he has blanket immunity.3141The President gave him blanket immunity for virtually anything3142he could have possibly done while at NIH.3143    I think we all have to individually answer this question.3144We welcome you to be part of helping us figure out the3145question. But there will be a vote. At least right now we plan3146for there to be a vote next week on contempt.3147    Senator Lankford. OK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.3148    Chairman Paul. Today will be the capstone to Anthony3149Fauci's 40 years of abuse of power at NIH. In the end, we must3150imagine, Fauci believes he got away with it. But still, late at3151night, even the guilty must become anxious, rerunning the3152scenarios through his mind, wondering, latching on to lingering3153doubts, and worrying, did his actions lead to the largest3154manmade plague in human history? Are the millions dead the3155result of his experiments or experiments that he approved, that3156increased the pathogenicity of deadly viruses?3157    History will judge, but the facts, as we now know them,3158paint a sordid tale of dishonesty, misjudgment, and ultimately3159the hubris the likes of which the world has rarely seen.3160    If everyone will remain seated for a few minutes we are3161going to let Dr. Fauci exit. Thank you.3162    [Whereupon, at 11:28 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]31633164                            A P P E N D I X31653166                              ----------31673168[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]31693170                                 [all]