“Breach of Trust: Surveillance in Private Spaces”

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                 THE JFK FILES: ASSESSING OVER 60 YEARS5                      OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S6                       OBSTRUCTION, OBFUSCATION,7                             AND DECEPTION89=======================================================================1011                                HEARING1213                               BEFORE THE1415                   TASK FORCE ON THE DECLASSIFICATION16                           OF FEDERAL SECRETS1718                                 OF THE1920                         COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT21                         AND GOVERNMENT REFORM2223                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES2425                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2627                             FIRST SESSION2829                               __________3031                              MAY 20, 20253233                               __________3435                           Serial No. 119-273637                               __________3839Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform4041[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]4243                       Available on: govinfo.gov44                         oversight.house.gov or45                             docs.house.gov4647                               __________4849                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE5060-449 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 20255152-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------5354              COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM5556                    JAMES COMER, Kentucky, Chairman5758Jim Jordan, Ohio                     Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia,59Mike Turner, Ohio                        Ranking Minority Member60Paul Gosar, Arizona                  Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of61Virginia Foxx, North Carolina            Columbia62Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin            Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts63Michael Cloud, Texas                 Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois64Gary Palmer, Alabama                 Ro Khanna, California65Clay Higgins, Louisiana              Kweisi Mfume, Maryland66Pete Sessions, Texas                 Shontel Brown, Ohio67Andy Biggs, Arizona                  Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico68Nancy Mace, South Carolina           Robert Garcia, California69Pat Fallon, Texas                    Maxwell Frost, Florida70Byron Donalds, Florida               Summer Lee, Pennsylvania71Scott Perry, Pennsylvania            Greg Casar, Texas72William Timmons, South Carolina      Jasmine Crockett, Texas73Tim Burchett, Tennessee              Emily Randall, Washington74Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Suhas Subramanyam, Virginia75Lauren Boebert, Colorado             Yassamin Ansari, Arizona76Anna Paulina Luna, Florida           Wesley Bell, Missouri77Nick Langworthy, New York            Lateefah Simon, California78Eric Burlison, Missouri              Dave Min, California79Eli Crane, Arizona                   Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts80Brian Jack, Georgia                  Rashida Tlaib, Michigan81John McGuire, Virginia82Brandon Gill, Texas8384                                 ------85                       Mark Marin, Staff Director86                   James Rust, Deputy Staff Director87                     Mitch Benzine, General Counsel88            Jake Greenberg, Chief Counsel for Investigations89        Clark Abourisk, Deputy Chief Counsel for Investigations90      Mallory Cogar, Deputy Director of Operations and Chief Clerk9192                      Contact Number: 202-225-50749394                  Jamie Smith, Minority Staff Director9596                      Contact Number: 202-225-505197                                 ------9899         Task Force on the Declassification of Federal Secrets100101                 Anna Paulina Luna, Florida, Chairwoman102Nancy Mace, South Carolina           Robert Garcia, California, Ranking103Tim Burchett, Tennessee                  Minority Member104Lauren Boebert, Colorado             Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois105Eric Burlison, Missouri              Summer Lee, Pennsylvania106Eli Crane, Arizona                   Dave Min, California107Brandon Gill, Texas                  Jasmine Crockett, Texas108109                        C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S110111                              ----------112113                                                                   Page114115Hearing held on May 20, 2025.....................................     1116117                               Witnesses118119                              ----------120Dr. Don Curtis, Doctor of Dental Surgery, Oral and Maxillofacial121  Specialist, Amarillo, TX122Oral Statement...................................................     5123124Mr. Abraham Bolden, Former U.S. Secret Service Agent125Oral Statement...................................................     8126127Mr. Dan Hardway, Former Researcher for the Select Committee on128    Assassinations (HSCA), U.S. House of Representatives129Oral Statement...................................................    10130131The Honorable John Tunheim, Senior Judge, U.S. District Court for132  the District of Minnesota133Oral Statement...................................................    12134135Mr. Douglas Horne, Former Staffer, Assassinations Records Review136  Board137Oral Statement...................................................    16138139Ms. Alexis Coe (Minority Witness), Presidential Historian, Senior140    Fellow, New America141Oral Statement...................................................    19142143Written opening statements and bios are available on the U.S.144  House of Representatives Document Repository at:145  docs.house.gov.146147                           Index of Documents148149                              ----------150151  * Letter, May 16, 2025, to Majority Leader, re: Witness;152  submitted by Rep. Luna.153154  * Letter, May 19, 2025, from Scalise, re: Witness; submitted by155  Rep. Luna.156157The documents listed above are available at: docs.house.gov.158159                 THE JFK FILES: ASSESSING OVER 60 YEARS160                       OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S161                       OBSTRUCTION, OBFUSCATION,162                             AND DECEPTION163164                              ----------165166                         Tuesday, May 20, 2025167168                     U.S. House of Representatives169170              Committee on Oversight and Government Reform171172         Task Force on the Declassification of Federal Secrets173174                                                   Washington, D.C.175176    The Task Force met, pursuant to notice, at 2:20 p.m., in177room HVC-210, U.S. Capitol Visitor Center, Hon. Anna Paulina178Luna [Chairwoman of the Task Force] presiding.179    Present: Representatives Luna, Mace, Burchett, Burlison,180Crane, Garcia, and Lee.181    Also present: Representatives Biggs and Ogles.182    Mrs. Luna. The Task Force on the Declassification of183Federal Secrets will come to order. Welcome everyone. I request184unanimous consent that Mr. Biggs of Arizona and Mr. Ogles of185Tennessee are waived on into this hearing for purposes of186questioning.187    Without objection, so ordered.188    Further, without objection, the Chair may declare a recess189at any time. Pursuant to the House rules and regulations for190the remote participation of committee witnesses, I ask191unanimous consent to enter into the record a letter from192Chairman Comer to Majority Leader Scalise requesting Mr. Bolden193testify removed and a letter from Scalise granting this194request.195    Without objection, so ordered.196    I now recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening197statement. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for being198here today. I wanted thank our witnesses, especially those who199have traveled far to be here.200    In the past 60 years, on a crowded street in Dallas, Texas,201the President of the United States was assassinated in front of202a horrified crowd, his Secret Service protection, and his wife.203The death of President Kennedy was a monumentous and tragic day204for the entire Nation, as well as the Kennedy family. The205country has never been the same since.206    Compounding that tragedy, however, has been over 60 years207of half-truths, deception and outright lies that the Federal208Government has offered regarding the details of that day and209the events surrounding it. I want to thank the National210Archives for their cooperation with this Task Force. The211Archives has provided these posters behind us that had were212allegedly produced for the CIA to show President Johnson on the213days following the assassination. They are, of course, images214of the Zapruder film that Americans have come to known as215capturing the final moments of President Kennedy's life. But216Americans have come to understand about the assassination of217President Kennedy has mostly been controlled and filtered218through the ascent and watchful gaze of Federal agencies who219have often resisted efforts to reveal the truth.220    They have done this, at best, because of their own221embarrassment about their failures to protect President Kennedy222that day. At worst, they have resisted for more nefarious223reasons, such as failing to acknowledge the extent of power and224reach that the CIA in the 1960s had and beyond to the point of225deceiving even the U.S. Congress. That is why we are here226today. We are here to listen to the witnesses who have waited,227in some cases, decades to tell their stories.228    I want to be clear, the Task Force on Declassification of229Federal Secrets is not here to provide the definitive account230of what happened on November 22, 1963. Instead, the Task Force231is meant to root up the hidden pockets of Federal Government232that has for too long remained in the shadows out of reach for233even good-faith investigators to reach.234    I also want to thank President Trump for committing to the235principles of transparency and holding the government236accountable to the people. His executive order regarding the237declassification of documents related to the assassination of238President Kennedy, Senator Robert F. Kennedy, and Dr. Martin239Luther King, Jr. is a step forward in the right direction.240    The job of the Task Force is to ensure that the Federal241agencies follow that order because in the past, a President's242order for transparency has not always been heeded by the most243secretive portions of our government. The objective of this244Task Force is not to indulge in conspiracy theories, but to245push forward the release of information so these theories could246be put to bed and so the American people can finally have247truth.248    It is the Federal agencies that lack transparency for 60249years that have led to the people's distrust in their250government and it is time to restore that. I would also like to251provide for those who have been closely following this to252include researchers an update on several documents that are253outstanding. To date, the Joannides file has not been located,254a whistleblower report from CIA alleging the CIA's implication255has also not been located. Lee Harvey Oswald's travel records256have not been located and the DS-201 file, who was a plausible257suspect for the Delaney Plaza shooter and then as well as the258MAA documents concerning CIA penetration of the Fair Play for259Cuba Committee.260    Last week, for an update, I did speak to the CIA directly,261not in a SCIF so I can talk about it publicly, and they did262notify me that four of these five documents will be publicly263released in the coming weeks, but there was one that was264outstanding, and I do believe that that one outstanding265document is the Joannides file.266    Without further ado, I would like to yield this next267portion to Ranking Member Garcia and then also prior to that we268also had requested footage from NBC. They gave us something269like 20 hours of footage, all of which is not the Wegman270footage that we had asked for, so we are kindly asking NBC to271reassess their archives and produce that documentation.272    Without further ado, Ranking Chairman Garcia.273    Mr. Garcia. Thank you, Chairwoman Luna, I wanted to note--274first, thank you to the witnesses that are here. Now, as the275Task Force continues its work, we need to continue to follow276the facts and provide transparency for the American people.277    I think we can all agree that this Task Force was not set278up to chase conspiracy theories, and I am glad, of course, to279have Chairwoman Luna reiterate that.280    It is responsible, though, for us, to focus on281declassification of historical records and that allows, as we282all know, the public to gain a better understanding of the283past, can restore trust and restitutions, and ensures284accountability in our shared government.285    Now, on March 18, 2025, the National Archives and Records286released more than 77,000 pages related, of course, to the287November 22, 1963, assassination of President Kennedy. Now, we288know that many of these documents, most in fact, were already289in the public record, but continued work to make the documents290more accessible is important and valuable.291    Now, over the past several decades, our government has292collected and released almost 6 million pages of documents293consistent with President John F. Kennedy and the Assassination294Records Collection Act of 1992.295    Now, together, we should push back on decades of296overclassification relating not to just the JFK assassination,297but a variety of subjects. We should be very clear, and it298should be done in a bipartisan way, that the FBI and the CIA of299the 1960s were deeply flawed institutions. And while they have300taken lessons from their past trespasses, there is no question301that they continue to opt in overclassified information often302out of an unnecessary abundance of caution. And it is also303important to note that the FBI and CIA did harm in numerous304areas, over the few decades, particularly when you look at the305time of the civil rights movement.306    Now, transparency is how we ensure accountability and307trust. The American people have the right to know as much as308possible about what our government does and how our tax dollars309are spent in a way that does not, of course, interfere with310national security.311    Now, I understand the interest in the second hearing on312President Kennedy's assassination. But I hope we, on our Task313Force, can continue to work in a bipartisan way on the many314other topics under its purview as they are also important to315the public.316    Now, as we hear testimony from our witnesses today, I want317to make sure that we remember that President Kennedy's318assassination is more than a historical event; it was also a319human tragedy. President Kennedy was a husband, a father, a320brother, and a son. Revisiting and relitigating the tragic321killing is also painful for the real people that were impacted322and for the family. And I think it is important to uplift that.323    We should be respectful and responsible as we work to324address the public's questions about this tragedy. And we know325that President Kennedy's legacy has made America the country326that it is today. Now, at a time when we are looking, of327course, for--and the Majority is pushing for tax cuts,328oftentimes for the wealthiest, we need to remember that329President Kennedy believed in a society where Americans took330care of one another. He fought to expand and lay the groundwork331for the program which, of course, became Medicare, which was332enacted under President Johnson. He, of course, was a huge333proponent of advancing civil rights. And President Kennedy334proposed the Civil Rights Act, which became a landmark law in3351964. He supported the courts and the rule of law, which we336know that President Kennedy worked tirelessly to enforce, of337course, courts, support courts and orders, even sending U.S.338marshals and the National Guard to desegregate the University339of Mississippi.340    Social Security was also critical to President Kennedy. He341worked to expand Social Security to increase benefits and cover342more people with disabilities.343    President Kennedy, over and over again, of course believed344that government could do big things. He invested in scientific345discovery and challenged us to put a man on the moon. We know,346and he knew, that our country was strongest as a global leader347fighting for freedom and democracy. He believed in working348through our alliances.349    And I want to make sure that the family also knows that we350will work and always work to uplift President Kennedy's legacy351and what he left for this country and his community.352    It is important that we follow the facts and that we work353to continue and declassify, oftentimes, things that have been354overclassified by, particularly, the FBI and the CIA in the355past.356    Thank you. And I yield back.357    Mrs. Luna. Thank you, Chairman Garcia [sic].358    And if it is OK with the Chairman [sic], I would like to359allow our witnesses to give more detail in their testimony if360they go over the 5 minutes. So, how it works typically is, with361the opening statements, you are usually allotted a certain362amount of time. But given the nature and context of this363hearing, take your time, no one is in trouble, we want to hear364your story for historical purposes and significance. So, just365take your time, you are not under any pressure.366    Our witnesses here today are pretty historical. Joining us367via Zoom, we actually have Mr. Abraham Bolden. Mr. Bolden was368an agent with the U.S. Secret Service appointed by President369Kennedy in 1961. And, sir, we want to thank you very much for370attending today. We are very happy that you are here.371    We also have Dr. Don Curtis. Dr. Curtis was a resident in372oral and facial surgery at Parkland Hospital in Dallas. And at37312:45 p.m. on November 22, 1963, he was actually in the trauma374room one attempting to save President Kennedy's life. He is375joining us today in person.376    Dr. Judge Tunheim. Mr. Tunheim is currently a Federal377district judge in Minnesota, but previously served as President378Bill Clinton's Chair of the Assassination Record Review Board.379As well as Mr. Hardway. Mr. Hardway was an investigator with380the Select Committee on Assassinations of the House of381Representatives. As well as Mr. Douglas Horne. Mr. Horne was a382staffer at the Assassination Record Review Board. And then as383well as Ms. Alexis Coe. Ms. Coe is a Presidential historian and384senior fellow at New America.385    Pursuant to the Committee on Oversight and Government386Reform Rule 9, the witnesses will please stand and raise your387right-hand.388    Dr. Curtis, you can sit, but please raise your right hand,389sir.390    Do you so solemnly swear and affirm that the testimony that391you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing392but the truth, so help you God?393    [Chorus of ayes.]394    Mrs. Luna. Thank you. Let the record show that the395witnesses have answered in the affirmative.396    The Task Force certainly appreciates you for being here and397we look forward to hearing your testimony. Let me remind you398and the witnesses that we have read your written statements,399and that they will appear in record in full. And it is an400accommodation, because of the historic nature of this401testimony, please also be ensured that you will not be rushed402for your opening statements, but try to keep it around 10403minutes, if possible.404    As a reminder, please press the button on the microphone in405front of you so that it is on and the Members can hear you.406When you begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn407green. After 9 minutes the light will turn yellow. And when the408red light comes on that means your time is up, but we will not409be gaveling you out, so please take your time.410    I now recognize Mr. Bolden to give an opening statement.411    Mr. Bolden. [Audio malfunction.]412    Mrs. Luna. Sir, we cannot hear you. Is your microphone on?413    We still cannot hear him.414    Mr. Bolden. [Audio malfunction.]415    Mrs. Luna. OK, we are going move to Dr. Curtis while you416guys work through the mic issue. But Mr. Bolden, please be417assured we will be coming back to you, so we will just pass. We418will be coming back, though.419    Dr. Curtis, if you can.420421                      STATEMENT OF DR. DON CURTIS422423                        DOCTOR OF DENTAL SURGERY424425                   ORAL AND MAXILLOFACIAL SPECIALIST426427    Dr. Curtis. Thank you. My story begins when I left my428office to go to get something to eat before I did surgery. And429to do that, I had to go by the emergency room. And when I went430by the emergency room, a policeman came of the door into the431emergency room. Right over my shoulder and he said, ``Are you a432doctor?''433    Can everybody hear?434    Mrs. Luna. Yes. I am sorry, Dr. Curtis.435    Mr. Bolden, we can hear you now. Your microphone is436working, but Dr. Curtis is doing the opening statement. And so,437if you could just pause real quick and then put yourself on438mute, thank you.439    Dr. Curtis, please continue.440    Dr. Curtis. All right. So, the policeman asked me if I was441a doctor, and I said, yes. And he grabbed me by the arm and442pulled me into the emergency room and took me to the trauma443room. And when I looked in the trauma room, there were three444people in the room. One was the President, and he was laying on445the gurney, and extremist, and the other was Dr. Carrico, James446Carrico, and one nurse. And the reason Dr. Carrico was on his447own is because the Governor Connally was brought in before him,448and he was very seriously ill. And the staff, all the staff in449the emergency room, went to help him. And then Dr. Carrico was450left to take care of President by himself. So, I walked in and451he had just placed an endotracheal tube.452    And then I walked up and held the tube so he could connect453the Bird machine to it. The Bird machine is an intermittent454positive pressure respiratory help. And it works by filling the455lungs and then letting the air come back out. And the way it456works is that the inspiration continues to a certain pressure457and then the expiration continues to another low pressure. And458therefore, that spaces the breathing. Normally, that is about45910 or 15 minutes, 10 or 15 times during a minute. But in this460case, it was going about 100 to 125 conversions in a minute.461So, it was rat-a-tat-tat-tat.462    I knew the machine, Dr. Carrico knew the machine. We used463it a lot. And so, the question was is, the machine not working464or is the tube blocked or what? And he had placed the tube in.465If you place endotracheal tube, you place it between the cords466and then you know you are in the trachea and have got an467airway. But in this case, apparently we did not have an airway.468It was a question, is it the machine or what is it?469    And so finally, it got to a point where I said, ``Jimmy,470what do you want to do?'' And he had already made the decision,471he said, tracheostomy, we need do a trach. So, if there was472going to be a trach, well, I knew that shirt would be in the473way. So, I moved around to take the shirt off and the nurse was474way ahead of me with her scissors and we took the shirt off.475    And in the meantime, Dr. Malcolm Perry came in, and he was476on the medical staff. He is a professor in the medical school,477senior to Dr. Carrico. So, he decided to do the tracheostomy.478And then Dr. Carrico said to me, ``Don, why don't you go ahead479and do a cut down on that left leg? And so, I went and did480that. A cut down is a very small operation, but it is a very481important thing to do. The reason for doing it, is that most482people come into the emergency room as bled out where their483blood volume is low. If the blood volume is low, well, then,484the heart does not have anything to pump, and that is basically485a cause of death486    Well, if you can replenish the blood volume quickly, well487then that causes a better chance of survival. So, a cut down is488to put a catheter in a vein so that you can get the fluid in489earlier, faster. And the operation is to make an incision490across the front of the shin and dissect out the saphenous491vein, which is the vein that goes right up the front of the492leg, make a little hole in the catheter, put a catheter in493that, then put a stitch around the vein to close it off and494hold the catheter in place495    The nurse, at the meantime, has the bag hanging without any496fluid and 500 CCs in a collar that she can pump up and when she497does that, where she forces the fluid into the vein. So, that498is what I did.499    Then after I did that, then Dr. Perry had already completed500the tracheostomy, and I looked up and then the President's501heart had stopped or it was not running. They put a monitor on502the President, they found his heart was not beating. And so,503the external cardiac massage was being done by Kemp Clark, the504chief of neurosurgery. Somebody relieved him and Kemp Clark505went and picked up the head and stopped the resuscitation. This506wound is not compatible with life. It got dead quiet; nobody507knew what to say, nobody said anything for the longest time.508    Then he said, ``OK,'' and he looked at--by that time the509chiefs of all the social services were against the wall across510the room from me and all in white coats. And they had responded511to the call that they needed to help. And so, he said--pointed512them out, ``I need to tell each of you individually what the513wound is so that you can say that later on.''514    And then he described the wound as about a 3-or 4-inch hole515in the posterior cranium. And then there was a bullet hole in516the right temple. So, he described it as the bullet came517through the temple into the cranial vault, created a huge518pressure in the cranial vault. And when the bullet finally519tumbled into the posterior wall, it blew it out. And he520explained all that, individually, to these five doctors, six,521seven doctors. And those doctors knew what was happening and522what happened to the President and the wound that killed him523and they never were called by the Warren Commission. So, that524did not work.525    And so, after that, I stood there and I could not leave526because Mrs. Kenny was to my right, and I could not get past527her. So, I had to just stay there for a while, but then528eventually everybody left. And I went around to look at the529wound and I could not see it, it was laying on the pillow but I530could see where it was.531    Then I left there and went into an adjacent room, the X-ray532waiting room, a large room. And right in the middle of the room533was Lyndon Johnson and he was telling people to go talk on the534phone and he was, obviously, he set the government up and had535taken control.536    And then I looked around and I could not see a single537person that I thought looked like Secret Service. I could not538see any weapons that were protecting him. I was a little539uncomfortable being there myself, because at that time, we had540no idea what was going on in our government. We did not know if541the government would be intact or not. But it made me feel good542to know that he was right in the middle of the room and he was543the President. He was absolutely fearless.544    Then I wondered, why is he so absolutely fearless? I mean545if it is a coup, he would be the next one to go. So, with that,546I left, and that is what I learned in the emergency--in the547trauma room.548    Then later, we found out that the residents and the interns549should not talk to each other about this, and so, we did not.550And Dr. Carrico and I would have lunch together many times,551often just him and me, and we never mentioned it to each other.552    And so, one thing I would like to get started today is that553the magic bullet was a product of the Warren Commission that554does not make any sense. And I could go through these bullets555that fell, but I think I am out of time.556    Mrs. Luna. Well, so just so you know, we will be giving you557opportunity to go back to that because we are very interested558in that, and thank you for that.559    Dr. Curtis. OK.560    Mrs. Luna. Because of previous technical issues, Mr.561Bolden, if you can, please give your opening statement.562563                      STATEMENT OF ABRAHAM BOLDEN564565                    FORMER U.S. SECRET SERVICE AGENT566567    Mr. Bolden. Chairman Luna, and all of the senior Members of568the Committee. My name is Abraham Bolden. And I am an ex Secret569Service agent from 1960 to the 1964. I helped protect President570Kennedy, and also Bud Eisenhower, and LBJ Johnson. Now, we have571a document here that all Americans should respect. And it says,572we hold these truths to be evidence, that all men are created573equal, that are endowed with the Creator with certain574inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the575pursuit of happiness. Now, that should apply to all with the576courageous evidence that we support what the Forefathers wrote.577    Now, growing up in east St. Louis, Illinois, my father,578Daniel Bolden, and my mother, Ophelia, I noticed that there579were quite a bit of trauma and things that were going on. I580wanted to get to the bottom of, criminal activity, hate,581racism, lack of respect.582    So, after I graduated from Lincoln University in Jefferson583City, Missouri, I became the first African American after584having a choice between becoming a music teacher in Kentucky585and a Pinkerton agent. I chose the Pinkerton agent because I586wanted to find a solution to the problems that we were having587in America and that became my goal in life.588    Now, when I became a Secret Service agent in 1960, I was589surprised at what I found, the racism, the inequality of job590assignments. Now, everything that I will tell you today, none591of it came from research. I am not a researcher. Each fact that592I give you today are from my specific actions. No one has593prompted me to say anything. I have been waiting for this594opportunity since 1964.595    Now, as it so happened, that God made it possible for me to596answer one of my dreams first, and that was to meet President597Kennedy. The President came to Chicago after he won the598election. By me being a Secret Service agent, the Secret599Service disrespected me as an agent by replacing a position600near President Kennedy, and putting a fireman in my position.601And they placed me by the bathroom at McCormick Place, there602were lots of jokes about it in the Office of the United States603Secret Service.604    All I wanted to do was carry out my duties, to God and my605country and the President of the United States. But they took606my position, my position which should have been near the607President, and placed me by the washroom at McCormick Place,608two flights down from the convention hall.609    Now, when the motorcade stopped in front of the McCormick610Place, the President the first thing he wanted to do was use611the washroom and there I stood. Now, the President walked up to612me and we shook hands. He asked me if I was one of Mayor613Daley's finest or a Secret Service agent. I answered the614question notifying him that I was a Secret Service agent. Then615he asked me, he invited me to come to Washington, DC. and616become the first African American appointed as a Secret Service617agent, which I thought was very great.618    But in becoming an agent, I found that there was so many619cracks in this petition. The agents were drinking on duty, some620of them were smoking weed. They were going around with621prostitutes when they were supposed to be on duty, and they622were particularly racist against President and Robert Kennedy.623There were some who were also worried about the fact that they624thought that President Kennedy and his family were trying to625form a dynasty. I heard a lot of talk about them forming a626dynasty, that President Kennedy would be first, then Robert627Kennedy, and then Kennedy, Kennedy, Kennedy. And then, when628that happened, then the Catholics would run America for the629next 100 years and that had to be stopped.630    Now, on the detail, as I said, there was a lot of drinking,631a lot of smoke, and I became against it. I warned them about632it.633    Now, when President Kennedy was coming to Chicago in March634in 1963, we got a call from the Federal Bureau of Investigation635who had a meeting, because President Kennedy was due in636Chicago, this was in March. We received a call from the Federal637Bureau of Investigation here in Chicago from a person who the638FBI identified only as Lee. And this man, Lee, said that639President Kennedy was going to be assassinated between O'Hare640Airport and the Conrad Hilton hotel. So, in order to protect641him, we had the airplanes land, and then we brought him by642helicopter to a medics field, which was not being used at the643time, which I thought and recommended that they do that. That644was my recommendation how to get the President there.645    Now, during the President's trip in March, I noticed one646thing that every time the photographers would take our pictures647together, where I was concerned, that they had an agent648assigned to remove all of the negatives. They took them and I649do not know what they did with them. But we have not been able650to find suitable pictures yet.651    Now, as I said, I was one of the strong agents who was on652their tail about their conduct and they did not like it and I653did not like their conduct. So, we were even-steven. So, we had654an opportunity, with President Kennedy's invitation, to go with655the President to Massachusetts to Hyannis Port. They were very656disrespectful to me, calling me nigger and different terms such657as that moolie, and they made it miserable for me as an agent658of the United States Secret Service.659    So, the President invited me on July 2 to arrive on660Nantucket Sound on his yacht, the Marlin. The President did661that. And I was seated next to the Chief of the United States662Secret Service, Rowley. While we were on the yacht, Marlin, the663President sent to me lunch, clam chowder, and said to the664fellow who brought me lunch--I am going into this to tell you665what type of person, what a wonderful person that President666Kennedy was. And he made intentions, had me placed on Air Force667One and also on the Marine One which is the helicopter with all668his staff.669    But this type of habitual drinking and wild life continued,670even after the 4th of July in Hyannis Port. When we were on Air671Force One, I mentioned that to Rowley. I told him there was too672much drinking going on. He told me just enjoy the yacht ride,673we will discuss that later on.674    Now, we get back to Washington, DC. Now, one incident I675want to make clear, is that I was standing outside the Oval676Office on June 29 about 7 o'clock in the evening. A big,677chauffeured limousine pulled up in front of the White House678door, the other agents had left for lunch. President Johnson679exited the chauffeured limousine and slammed the door as hard680as he could. He walked straight to the Oval Office where I had681interdicted him and I was standing by the door first. I walked682before he did because I figured where he had to be going and I683was the only agent there to take control of the situation.684    President Johnson, the first thing that he said as he685passed me and walked into the Oval Office, he said ``you686bastards ain't trying to send me to jail over some goddamn687cotton.'' And after that particular time, an argument ensued688between the President and Bobby Kennedy that was so violent, or689lots of violent words about Bobby, about cotton--I could not690distinguish every word that they said, but when Johnson left691the Oval Office, he first wanted to know who I was standing by692the Oval Office door. His chauffeur told him he must be Secret693Service or FBI, or he could not be standing there.694    Now, as Johnson exited the office, he looked back, told the695President and Bobby Kennedy, ``You bastards are going to get696enough of fucking with me.'' Those were exact words. And he was697in such a temper, violent mood, that I reported it to the then-698head of my shift, Harvey Henderson. Harvey Henderson's thought699was I would kill the motherfucker myself if I had a chance.700    Now, some of these facts are in ``The Echo from Dealey701Plaza'', for the book that I wrote. Some are not and I left702them out simply because I felt that my life would be in danger703if I included it.704    Mrs. Luna. Mr. Bolden, if you can for a moment, we actually705have some questions in regard to your testimony. So, is it OK706if we move to some of the other witnesses for opening and then707come back to you with specifics on your experience?708    Mr. Bolden. Yes.709    Mrs. Luna. And also, too, both the Ranking Member, Mr.710Garcia, and I would like to thank you for your service to this711country, especially as the first African American Secret712Service officer. Your sacrifice for this country and your713service to this country does not go unnoticed so we applaud714you, sir.715    Mr. Bolden. Thank you.716    Mr. Garcia. Thank you, sir.717    Mrs. Luna. Now, I would like to recognize Mr. Hardway for718an opening statement.719720                        STATEMENT OF DAN HARDWAY721722  FORMER RESEARCHER FOR THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS (HSCA)723724                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES725726    Mr. Hardway. Thank you. For the past 62 years, the Central727Intelligence Agency has actively and continuously obstructed728the investigation of the assassination of President John F.729Kennedy with no consequences for their actions.730    Ten years ago, the CIA's official historian admitted that731the CIA had hidden information from the Warren Commission732during its investigation. The CIA stonewalled the Senate Select733Committee to Study Governmental Operations with respect to734intelligence activities, the Church Committee.735    The CIA was not forthcoming with the Rockefeller736Commission. The CIA misled and slow-walked the Assassination737Records Review Board. James Angleton's preferred method in738dealing with the Warren Commission was to, quote, ``wait them739out.'' The first CIA officer I ever interviewed looked at me740and said, ``You represent Congress, what the F is that to the741CIA? You will be gone in 2 years, and we will still be here.''742    In 1978, the CIA ran an illegal, domestic covert operation743involving an undercover officer to subvert and obstruct the744House Select Committee on Assassinations. That officer served745undercover, that terminology is the terminology the CIA used to746describe his assignment working with the select committee in a747statement that their representative made under the penalties of748perjury in a lawsuit in 2005.749    I personally experienced the CIA's obstruction of the HSC750investigation and can testify firsthand about what happened. In7511977 and 1978, I was employed as a researcher by the Select752Committee and I have submitted a detailed 17-page description753of what happened then and since then, which I hope you will754read.755    Briefly, my primary area of responsibility was Lee Harvey756Oswald's activities in Mexico City in the fall of 1963, and the757performance of the CIA in monitoring and reporting those758activities, as well as other issues related to the possibility759of CIA knowledge of or involvement in the assassination of760President Kennedy and the cover-up of information relevant to761the investigation of the assassination.762    In that capacity, I had a top-secret security clearance,763and during the major portion of my employment had access to764unredacted CIA records, requested for review from the CIA by765the Select Committee. Implicit in the focus of my work was the766issue of whether the evidence from Mexico indicated any767operational connection between Oswald and the CIA. Ed Lopez and768I authored the report, ``The CIA, Oswald, and Mexico City.''769    In the spring of 1978, among other things, I was looking770hard into back-channel communication methods used by the Mexico771City Station; the use of an impulse camera to photograph the772Cuban consulate in Mexico City; missing production from that773impulse camera, and from one of the photographic installations774that covered the Soviet embassy in Mexico City; and David Atlee775Phillips anti-Castro propaganda operations, including his776connections to stories about Oswald that rapidly appeared after777the assassination of John Kennedy.778    In May 1978, the CIA assigned an officer working in an779undercover capacity to work with me and Mr. Lopez. That man was780George Joannides. When Joannides was introduced to the781investigation, we were told that he had no connection of any782kind with any aspect of the Kennedy case that we would be783investigating.784    In addition to that, the CIA assured us that they had no785working relationship with an anti-Castro Cuban group known as786DRE. They had no relationship with the DRE when representatives787of that group had an encounter with Oswald in the summer of7881963, which they turned into quite a propaganda coup.789    The DRE was responsible for the first-ever conspiracy790theory about the assassination when the day after the791assassination, they published in their newspapers the story792about Oswald's pro Castro activities in New Orleans, and793proposed that Castro was behind the assassination, a story that794is was picked up the next day by the Washington Post and the795Miami Herald. Thanks to the work of the Assassination Records796Review Board though, we now know that not only was DRE still a797CIA operation all the way through 1963 and all the way up to798April 1964, its controlling case officer, who oversaw the799activities of the DRE and directed the DRE's activities, was no800one other than George Joannides.801    I believe we were close to some major discoveries in 1978,802and then the CIA ran an undercover operation against us. They803assigned us a man who knew exactly how to keep us from finding804what we were looking for, and he proceeded to do just that.805Reasonable inferences may be drawn about what they did not want806us to find from the substantial circumstantial evidence that807has come to light by our efforts and those of the Assassination808Records Review Board, and the journalist, Jefferson Morley.809    I am a witness to these events. And as such, I have a civic810duty to testify. I wish I were just here--actually I wish I811were not here--but I wish I were just here to talk about a812cover-up, but I am not. I am here to talk about a CIA covert813operation, directed against the Select Committee on814Assassinations, that was illegal and a violation of the CIA's815charter, as well as being a felonious obstruction of a816congressional investigation. That operation was and continues817to be successful.818    Despite our testimony, and by that, I mean mine, Ed819Lopez's, and G. Robert Blakey, and the clear record, no one has820ever done anything about it. I have copies of the sworn821testimony and exhibits of all three of us in D.C. district822court case number 17-CV-1433. I have those records with me if823any of the Members of this Task Force would like to see them.824    The question for this Task Force is whether anyone in this825new generation of leaders has the backbone, the courage, the826gumption to try to do something even at this late date. It is827easy to admit and air the sins of our ancestors, it is much828harder to admit that we built their tombs and endorse their829actions by our inaction. I am here to testify again, which is830all that I can do. What will you do?831    Mrs. Luna. Thank you, Mr. Hardway.832    I now recognize Judge Tunheim for an opening statement.833834                       STATEMENT OF JOHN TUNHEIM835836                              SENIOR JUDGE837838           U.S. DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF MINNESOTA839840    Judge Tunheim. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr.841Ranking Member. I appreciate this opportunity to speak today.842    My name is John Tunheim. I am a Federal District Court843judge for the District of Minnesota. I am in my thirtieth year844as a Federal judge. I served as Chief Judge of our district845from 2015 until 2022, and as a member of the U.S. Judicial846Conference from 2020 to 2024. I was originally nominated by847President Clinton in 1995 after serving 10 years as the848Minnesota's Chief Deputy Attorney General.849    I was Chair of the Assassination Records Review Board850during its entire existence from 1994 through 1998. The review851board was an independent Federal agency. Its five board members852were confirmed by the U.S. Senate after being nominated by853President Clinton.854    Congress created the review board for the express purpose855of reviewing all of the still secret records of tragic856assassination of President John Kennedy, and declassifying as857much information as could be publicly released.858    The impetus for the law which was enacted in October 1992859was Oliver Stone's movie, JFK. The President John F. Kennedy860Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992 provided for a861five-member decision-making board which would make decisions on862agency-requested redactions of classified documents. We had863declassification authority. The first time, and maybe the only864time, an outside group had that authority.865    The board members were, by law, to be recommended for866appointment by professional organizations--two national867historical associations, an archivist association, and the868American Bar Association. Besides me, the members included a869renowned provost from a major university, later university870president; two distinguished history professors; and a senior871archivist at Princeton. We were confirmed in 1994 and began our872work with no appropriation or offices. We worked out of the873National Archives for a time until I was able to secure some874funding from the White House to get us started before Congress875could provide an appropriation.876    The Agency's presentation of records was seriously delayed877because of the delay in the appointments. We were ready to878begin review with our staff by early 1995. The statute did not879require us to reach any conclusions about prior investigations880or what happened on November 22. Rather, our task was to881conduct a wide-ranging search for records to create the largest882possible collection of assassination-related records as open to883the public as possible. The goal was to allow the interested884public to make up their own minds about what happened and based885on an open and transparent and complete record.886    The congressional mandate, and this is important, it stated887that the records relating to the assassination would, quote,888``carry a presumption of immediate disclosure.'' And quote,889``only in the rarest of cases is there any legitimate need for890continued protection.'' This is Congress in 1992.891    Congress defined the term assassination records broadly and892indicated that the review board could further define the term893``assassination record,'' which we did. So, in June 1995, our894definition was that any record that was reasonably related to895the assassination would be an assassination record subject to896the board's jurisdiction. And we included all records collected897by government agencies in conjunction with any investigation or898analysis of, or inquiry into, the assassination of President899Kennedy.900    We developed detailed guidelines for agencies to follow.901And agencies did have the right to appeal our decisions902directly to the President. We were authorized to redact words.903We did not ever redact entire documents that the agency proved904by clear and convincing evidence, that was the standard, that905the harm of disclosure outweighed the public interest in the906document in four categories: national security, intelligence-907gathering methods, personal privacy, or methods of protecting908the President. That was it.909    We held many public hearings, experts' conferences around910the country, in addition to our private meetings to discuss our911decision-making. We also tried to clarify unclear evidence912where we could. Digitalizing autopsy materials and analyzing913them and deposing the autopsy physicians. We also gathered914artifacts, including photographs and film and clothing and915other artifacts.916    We have limited time to do our work, which was not enough917time. We were granted just 1 more year by Congress, so we had a918total of 3 years. We began to lose staff as we approached the919end of our mandate.920    In all, the board issued over 27,000 individual rulings.921These were decisions on requests by agencies to protect922information. Most redacted information had release dates923attached to them. It made it easy for the researchers to924determine whether a redacted name appeared in different925locations so that they would know it was the same person.926    There was further 33,000 consent releases, which927essentially means that the agency saw the handwriting on the928wall and released the documents directly since we were likely929to order release.930    When we finished, there were nearly 5 million pages at the931National Archives. We made the decision early that we would not932protect any information directly related to the assassination933because of the high level of public interest.934    By 2017, when the last records were to be released under935the Act, there were probably not more than 1,500 review board936redactions that were remaining. The Act was clear in stating937that despite the review board wrapping up its work in 1998, the938Act was to continue in effect, which meant that agencies had939the obligation to continue to present information.940    Most of the redactions now in the documents are within941documents never shown to the review board but were transferred942to NARA at a later time. Agencies largely complied with the943mandate to present records to the review board. However, there944are many delays and denials with records that we specifically945requested. And there were many skirmishes along the way. It946does not take a rocket scientist to realize that agencies were947awaiting the end of our 3-year mandate.948    The first 500 or so adverse disclosure decisions we made in949FBI records were appealed to the President. And the appeals950were dropped when White House counsel, former judge and951representative, Abner Mikva, told the FBI to drop the appeals952because President Clinton would deny all of them. FBI staff was953helpful to us, but I am now seeing records in the new releases954that were not disclosed to the review board.955    The CIA was cooperative and processed many documents with956us, but we never received much of what we specifically asked957for. When asked, for example, for documents involving James958Angleton that we had not seen, I was told the documents were no959longer maintained as a collection. We received only three960memoranda that incorporated the agency's review of Angleton's961counterintelligence files. Not the files themselves, just the962review by someone else of the files. We were told that all the963other documents had been destroyed. I am now seeing a flood of964documents that clearly meet the definition of assassination965records involving Angleton and others that were not submitted966to us for review.967    When CIA analysts would not tell us the details of their968secret operations, our response was, ``OK, we will release the969record in 10 days.'' We then heard the details and could make a970reasonable decision.971    We had in our hands a small file on George Joannides that972disclosed nothing really so it was returned. We did not know973the details of his work at the time. We now know much more974about Joannides and his file should be immediately disclosed.975There is no reason anymore for protecting those files. Clearly,976we were misled. I actually wrote to President Biden asking that977he order the CIA to release the Joannides file and I never978received a response.979    The Secret Service was very difficult. They were the only980agency that we were aware of that tried to reclassify981assassination records after we were in office. They attempted982to classify documents that had already been released publicly,983and fought us over 1963 threat sheets that were still in984process when we left office.985    The Department of State was less than helpful, although986they released records in their possession. When we negotiated987with Russian officials over the Oswald files in Moscow, they988did not lift a finger to help us--not even allowing us access989to United States Embassy. When we tried to get access to990Belarusian records in Oswald, they did not help. When we991planned meetings with Mexican and Cuban officials, they stopped992us from direct contacts. The Act specifically required the993Department of State to help us find foreign records.994    The National Archives was very helpful to us when we did995our work, a very dedicated staff member, Steven Tilley, was996instrumental in getting our work done. But since we left997office, I have been disappointed the Archives has not devoted998more personnel to the records. We had planned that the Archives999would continue our work to the extent possible. For the most1000part, that has not happened and the agency has never been in1001contact with me.1002    So, there are other files that should be released. We came1003close to an agreement to copy the entire KGB file on Lee Harvey1004Oswald that is maintained in Minsk, Belarus. Last-minute1005disputes prevented the agreement from moving forward. Copies of1006the files are in Moscow.1007    I just have a little bit more here.1008    We were particularly interested in the files of Walter1009Sheridan, an investigator for Robert Kennedy. When we took1010office, he removed the files from the Kennedy library where we1011had access to them and gave them to NBC for safekeeping. I do1012not think those files have been released.1013    The William Manchester taped interviews of Jacqueline and1014Robert Kennedy are protected by a 1967 legal agreement, now1015controlled by Caroline Kennedy. We encouraged her to release1016the files, and she finally responded in August 1998 that she1017would not agree to their release or even let us listen to the1018recordings.1019    And out there somewhere are files on Jack Ruby. We cannot1020find them other than the files maintained by the earlier1021investigations. The final report of the board, a copy of which1022I will give to Madam Chair today, we made 10 recommendations1023that are relevant today still. I will not go through them all,1024but they deal with the problems of excessive government1025secrecy, which has plagued the public's understanding of the1026Kennedy assassination for decades.1027    We strongly endorse the method selected for independent1028declassification of executive branch records that was used in1029our case but also detailed the problems inherent in the review1030board's legislation. Most important to deal with massive1031overclassification, we recommended a Federal classification1032policy be developed that substantially one, limits the number1033of those in government who can actually classify Federal1034documents; two, restricts the number of categories by which1035documents might be classified; three, reduces the time period1036for which documents might be classified; four, encourages the1037use of substitute language to immediately open material that1038might otherwise be classified; and five, increases the1039resources available to agencies and thereof declassifying1040Federal records.1041    Thank you, Madam Chair.1042    Mrs. Luna. Thank you very much. And just so everyone knows,1043we are going to be following up on getting that file, the KGB1044file in Minsk. I am interested in seeing that. And I think that1045with peace talks right now it might be prime time for that, so1046we will be following up on that.1047    Judge Tunheim. It stands about 5 feet high. It is a lot of1048records.1049    Mrs. Luna. Well, we might have to bring you back out of1050retirement and what you are currently doing and have you help1051go through it.1052    With that, I would like to now recognize Mr. Horne for an1053opening statement.10541055                       STATEMENT OF DOUGLAS HORNE10561057                             FORMER STAFFER10581059                  ASSASSINATIONS RECORDS REVIEW BOARD10601061    Mr. Horne. Chairwoman Luna, Ranking Member Garcia, and1062Members of the Committee, thank you for the invitation to1063appear and testify today.1064    I served on the staff of the President John F. Kennedy1065Assassination Records Review Board for the final 3 years of its10664-year lifespan, from August 1995 through September 1998. I was1067hired as a senior analyst on the Military Records Team and was1068promoted early in 1997 to head the Military Records Team,1069serving as Chief Analyst for Military Records until the ARRB1070shutdown on September 30, 1998.1071    During my time on the staff, in addition to securing the1072declassification and public release of military records related1073to Cuba and Vietnam policy, I was privileged to work1074extensively in the medical evidence arena and to serve as the1075Review Board's point man on issues related to the Zapruder film1076of President Kennedy's assassination.1077    Although the Review Board was not empowered to1078reinvestigate the assassination or generate conclusions or1079findings of fact, the Board did choose to attempt to clarify1080the record of certain aspects of the assassination by taking1081the depositions of 10 persons who participated in or who were1082present at the autopsy on President John F. Kennedy, and by1083later taking one additional joint deposition of five of the1084Dallas treating physicians.1085    I served as the principal research assistant to the Review1086Board's general counsel, Jeremy Gunn, in preparing for and1087conducting our 10 depositions of the participants and witnesses1088to JFK's autopsy and was present at all 10 of those1089depositions. The sworn testimony of our 10 deponents, as well1090as numerous written interview reports of additional unsworn1091medical witnesses, were all deposited in the National Archives1092in the JFK Records Collection without comment or endorsement.1093    In subsequent years, I wrote a five-volume memoir about my1094own personal conclusions regarding the medical evidence and1095explained the substantial ways in which the work of the ARRB1096staff significantly enhanced the totality of the medical1097evidence and our understanding of how President Kennedy was1098killed. Some outstanding questions were resolved, but many1099other questions were raised by the information we gathered,1100questions that remain unresolved today.1101    Now, this is the heart of my oral testimony here.1102    Many Americans remain troubled today by the many conflicts1103within the JFK medical evidence and what they might mean, and1104they remain unsatisfied with the official conclusions offered1105up by both the Warren Commission in 1964 and the HSCA Forensic1106Pathology Panel in 1979.1107    Based on my work as an analyst at the ARRB and as an1108independent researcher, I have concluded that there are ample1109reasons for the disquiet of so many of the American people, to1110wit:1111    First, eight different sets of photographs known with1112confidence to have been taken during the autopsy on JFK are not1113in the official collection today and never have been.1114    Some autopsy photos in the official collection at the1115National Archives are in gross disagreement with the head and1116neck wounds universally observed on November 22, 1963, by the1117treating physicians at Parkland Hospital, which they recorded1118in precise detail in their treatment notes that day and in1119their subsequent 1964 testimony.1120    At least two, and possibly three, JFK skull x-rays exposed1121at Bethesda Naval Hospital are missing today and have never1122been in the official collection.1123    The science of optical densitometry reveals that all three1124surviving skull x-rays are not originals but, rather, are1125altered copy films.1126    Two highly qualified and respected MDs who were granted1127repeated access by the Kennedy family to the autopsy1128photographs and x-rays in the deed-of-gift collection at the1129Archives both agree that the extant JFK skull x-rays reveal1130unambiguous and clear evidence of two head shots fired from in1131front of the President, contrary to the findings of the Warren1132Commission and the HSCA. The JFK skull x-rays actually reveal a1133total of three head shots, one from behind and two from the1134front.1135    The so-called Harper Fragment of skull bone, a crucial item1136of evidence signed for by the President's military physician1137and photographed and x-rayed by the FBI, has been missing since1138late in 1963.1139    Many bullet fragments known to have been removed from1140President Kennedy's body at Bethesda Naval Hospital were never1141placed into the official record and are missing today.1142    The remains of President Kennedy's brain following its1143examination were placed in a stainless steel container in 1963,1144but the brain is missing today, as many people know already.1145That stainless steel container and an original signed autopsy1146report were among materials transferred from the Secret Service1147to Senator Robert F. Kennedy in April 1965. Those materials and1148others were not among the materials returned to the U.S.1149Government by RFK on October 31, 1966, via a deed of gift to1150the National Archives. The Kennedy family attorney, Burke1151Marshall, told the HSCA that Robert F. Kennedy had made those1152materials permanently inaccessible, without providing details.1153    The 14 brain photographs in the National Archives today1154cannot be and are not photographs of John F. Kennedy's brain.1155They have been impugned by the official photographer at the1156brain examination and by one of the FBI agents present at JFK's1157autopsy.1158    The chain of custody of President Kennedy's body prior to1159the start of the autopsy shortly after 8 p.m. on November 22,11601963, clearly appears to have been broken, casting even more1161doubt upon the reliability of the official autopsy report.1162    And finally, Navy pathologists arrived at four sets of1163differing conclusions about President Kennedy's wounds and how1164he died within the 2 weeks after his death. The official1165autopsy report that is now in the National Archives represents1166only the fourth and final set of conclusions. This fact,1167perhaps more than any of the others above, is patently1168unacceptable in the Nation that prides itself as the world's1169greatest democracy.1170    Moving on to a new subject. The existing deed of gift dated1171October 29, 1966, that sets severe restrictions upon who can1172view the JFK autopsy materials and how they can be used, needs1173to be reexamined and lifted. It has resulted in de facto1174suppression of these materials. Only by having free and1175unlimited access to the autopsy photographs and skull x-rays1176can troubling and persistent questions about their authenticity1177be definitively and finally resolved by qualified experts.1178    In my concluding paragraph, I wish to make a short1179statement about the Zapruder film of the assassination. Studies1180in Hollywood of the individual film frames--that is, state-of-1181the-art digital scans of extremely high resolution--appear to1182show the use of visual effects, that is, animation or artwork,1183to crudely and blatantly alter the image content in some key1184frames. To state the problem simply, the digitized Zapruder1185film studied by professionals in Hollywood does not show the1186massive exit wound in the rear of the head seen at Parkland1187Hospital and by many witnesses at Bethesda during the autopsy1188because it has been blacked out, and yet the film does appear1189to show head wounds not seen at Parkland Hospital.1190    We now know that rather than spending the entire weekend1191following the assassination in Chicago at the LIFE printing1192plant, as was originally claimed, the Zapruder film actually1193spent most of the weekend in the custody of the CIA in1194Washington, DC, and at Kodak's main research and development1195laboratory in Rochester, New York.1196    The attitude of one National Archives official, expressed1197in writing circa 2009, was that they, quote, ``do not ever1198intend to take the film out of the freezer again,'' end quote.1199This decision should be overturned, and the so-called purported1200original film should be made available for appropriate1201inspection by qualified film professionals from the motion1202picture industry and academia--and by that, I mean film1203schools--so that questions of authenticity can be definitively1204resolved.1205    I have provided many additional details in my written1206testimony, and I request that they be included in the1207Congressional Record. Thank you very much.1208    Mrs. Luna. Thank you, Mr. Horne. And they will.1209    Ms. Coe, if you can please provide opening statement.12101211                        STATEMENT OF ALEXIS COE12121213                         PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN12141215                       SENIOR FELLOW, NEW AMERICA12161217    Ms. Coe. Thank you.1218    Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Ranking Member Garcia.1219It is an honor to address the Committee today.1220    Historians are time travelers. I was just in 1947 when John1221F. Kennedy was in his first term in the House. And now I find1222myself here, speaking to people who sit where he once sat,1223doing the kind of work he once did.1224    During JFK's 11 years in Congress, he questioned1225everything, not to impress but to understand. And he listened.1226He changed. And that took courage. Not the kind that earned him1227a Purple Heart in World War II. Political courage is slower. It1228is quieter. And it has the power to reshape a country.1229    His public service deepened from there. He wrote a Pulitzer1230Prize-winning book, established the Peace Corps. He governed in1231the crucible of the cold war, civil rights, and the space race.1232He made mistakes, and he learned from them. The Bay of Pigs1233taught him restraint, the value of failure, the strength in1234stepping back. And Americans noticed. By 1963, his approval1235rating peaked at 82 percent.1236    None of that was inevitable. He chose discipline over1237drama, substance over show.1238    And do not get me wrong; Jack Kennedy understood the power1239of media. He courted the press. He worked the spotlight. He1240shaped the moment. But only after he had done the work, after1241he had earned it.1242    And that is why his name endures as a standard of1243greatness. The JFK Library's Profiles in Courage Award carries1244that legacy forward. It has honored George H.W. Bush, the1245heroes of 9/11, and just last month, Mike Pence, for what1246history always notices: putting country first when it matters1247most.1248    Of course, JFK was not perfect. I have never studied a1249saint, and I have not met one either. I see history's boldface1250names on their best days and on their worst. But complexity is1251not a liability unless you are cherry-picking with an agenda,1252which brings me to today's hearing.1253    The title uses charged words: obstruction, obfuscation,1254deception. But in the 132 days since the JFK assassination1255records were released, not even conspiracy theorists can claim1256that it upended the Warren Commission.1257    There is something unprecedented in these files, that is1258true: unredacted Social Security numbers and private1259information of living Americans. I have never seen anything1260like it. And given that most quality control has been fired,1261like the State Department's Historical Advisory Committee, I am1262afraid it will become the new normal.1263    But as far as the files, no hidden truths. No real1264disclosures. No shocking revelations. This was not history1265disrupted; it was history remastered, a 60th anniversary re-1266release with better resolution, the same ending.1267    And surely this resonates with a Congress that vigilantly1268protects its own records. You have preserved the right to1269classify your office's documents as private property. They will1270never be public if you do not want them to.1271    I hope we can talk about public trust today and what1272happens and how this appears to fit into a larger pattern. The1273Kennedy Center is no longer bipartisan. The Rose Garden has1274been stripped of its historic character. USAID was gutted.1275Taken together, it is hard not to see this as an attempt to1276reduce a consequential leader to a grotesque spectacle, his1277legacy defined by how he died and not what he did.1278    On November 22, 1963, America lost John F. Kennedy, and1279with him, a sense of possibility. That is how I think of the1280Archives too. They are crammed with untold stories, ones we1281truly do not know about. What an opportunity for the1282President--by default, our historian in chief--and by great1283good luck in office as America approaches its 250th1284anniversary. But instead, tragedy begets tragedy.1285    In 1953, JFK entered the Senate. A year later, his1286colleagues censured Joseph McCarthy. Kennedy rose as McCarthy1287fell, a reminder that Americans tire of reckless spectacle,1288division, demagogues. They seek substance, accountability, and1289authentic commitment to the public good.1290    I began by saying that historians are time travelers. We1291study the past to understand the present. And these records1292make me wonder how this moment will be remembered. When future1293historians ask whether we met it with the courage it demanded,1294how will they answer? JFK understood how much depends on that.1295The real question is, do we?1296    Thank you.1297    Mrs. Luna. Thank you.1298    I would like to now recognize the gentleman from Arizona,1299Mr. Biggs, for 5 minutes.1300    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I thank the1301witnesses on the panel for being here today.1302    So, I have questions, I think, for most of you, and I need1303a quick response, if I can. But, first, I will ask ultimately1304of all of you the question, why? Why did this move the way it1305did?1306    So, Dr. Curtis, you observed the back of President1307Kennedy's head. You saw an exit wound. And you said that it did1308not align with the theory that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in1309shooting President Kennedy. Is that fair to say?1310    Dr. Curtis. I wish I could hear you.1311    Mr. Biggs. Oh, I am sorry. I will speak up. I will try to1312be louder.1313    You indicated that you had no doubt that the wound that you1314observed to the back of President Kennedy's head was an exit1315gunshot wound. Is that fair?1316    Dr. Curtis. Yes.1317    Mr. Biggs. And you concluded, after review, that it did not1318align--his wound did not align with the theory that Lee Harvey1319Oswald acted alone in shooting President Kennedy. Is that true?1320    Dr. Curtis. Yes.1321    Mr. Biggs. And I guess you struggle to this day to1322understand the Warren Commission's theory about the President's1323shooter and how it seems to have discord with what you actually1324observed that day. Is that fair to say?1325    Dr. Curtis. Yes.1326    Mr. Biggs. Thank you.1327    Mr. Hardway, so, you have indicated that you essentially1328were the subject of a covert operation as you served on the1329House Select Committee on Assassinations. Is that fair to say?1330    Mr. Hardway. The CIA called it a covert assignment.1331    Mr. Biggs. And that was from--and I cannot get his--I1332cannot--Mr. Joannides?1333    Mr. Hardway. Joannides, yes.1334    Mr. Biggs. Joannides. And you have called on the release of1335Mr. Joannides' file to the public. Is that fair to say?1336    Mr. Hardway. That is fair.1337    Mr. Biggs. And so, I would actually echo that call as well1338to the Chair, that we see if we can get Mr. Joannides' file1339released.1340    And I would like to continue on--I only have two and a half1341minutes. But I have to get to the ultimate question: Why? Why,1342why did the CIA intervene with Mr. Hardway's review? Why were1343documents altered? Why was the Zapruder film removed and not1344brought back in its original documented form? Why?1345    And so that is what I am going to ask you. If you can1346answer that, you would probably solve what Ms. Coe referred to1347as trust. There is a massive amount of skepticism about our1348Federal Government, and I think you can directly trace it back1349to this event.1350    And so, I want to know why. And I think that is what all of1351America wants to know. We can kind of get a feeling for what1352happened. But we all want to know why it happened the way it1353did. Why was there this mastering, this control of all of this1354operation?1355    So, I am going to start with you, Mr. Horne, and then go1356down to each one of you. And then I have a list of documents1357that I think need to be released, Madam Chair.1358    Mr. Horne?1359    Mr. Horne. There is so much medical evidence that is1360tainted or missing or destroyed.1361    Mr. Biggs. But why did that happen?1362    Mr. Horne. Or altered. There is no reason to have1363confidence in the autopsy report. Those things--I am going to1364get there, sir.1365    Mr. Biggs. OK.1366    Mr. Horne. Those things would not have happened if a lone1367nut had killed the President. If a lone nut killed the1368President, there is no reason to do all those things, to1369destroy x-rays, to possibly alter autopsy photos--although that1370has not yet been determined. It is a question that remains1371outstanding--to alter the existing skull x-rays.1372    So, you do not do those things. And you do not change the1373autopsy conclusions four different times within 2 weeks after1374the President's death if a lone nut killed the President.1375    So, it is clear to me that the government--these are my1376conclusions after years of study. It is clear to me that the1377government was trying to manage what story it could sell to the1378American people. That is what was going on. And that is why the1379autopsy conclusions change four times in the first 2 weeks.1380    Have I come close to answering your question or not?1381    Mr. Biggs. Yes, Mr. Horne, you have. I do not have time to1382ask and get a response from all of you because my time has1383expired.1384    But I would say, I took some notes on what they were1385saying, Madam Chair----1386    Mr. Burchett. Chairlady, would it be all right if I yield1387half my time to Representative Biggs? Would that be OK with the1388Ranking Member?1389    Mrs. Luna. Yup. That is fine.1390    Mr. Burchett. All right.1391    Mr. Biggs. Thank you.1392    So, then----1393    Mr. Burchett. That is two and a half minutes.1394    Mr. Biggs. I needed the math. Thank you.1395    And so, we will just go down to Judge Tunheim.1396    Mr. Tunheim. Yes. I think it is an interesting question you1397pose as to why. I mean, I think that, clearly, if you look at1398the history of all this, there were cover-ups by both the FBI1399and the CIA, perhaps other organizations in part because they1400had a lot of contact with Oswald in advance of the1401assassination, and there is no evidence that they alerted the1402Secret Service to the erratic behavior of Oswald. Oswald was in1403New Orleans. There was CIA contact with him then when he was a1404volunteer for this Fair Play for Cuba Committee. I mean, they1405knew all about his visit to Mexico City. Both the FBI and the1406CIA knew about it. The FBI was following him in Dallas because1407he was a suspect in another shooting.1408    All of this suggests that they had a lot of contact with1409him ahead of time, and the--I do not know what that suggests1410other than the fact that they wanted to cover that up, the fact1411that they knew a lot about him ahead of time and did not do1412much about it.1413    Mr. Biggs. Thank you.1414    And, Mr. Hardway, do you subscribe to that as part of the1415explanation as well as the not a lone gunman-theory of Mr.1416Horne?1417    Mr. Hardway. I have no opinion on Mr. Horne's because I do1418not know anything about the medical evidence.1419    Mr. Biggs. OK.1420    Mr. Hardway. In regard to why the CIA would go to the1421length of running an operation against us, they obviously had1422something that they were very desperate about hiding. And I go1423into that in my written statement. To do it, you have to get1424into the weeds of the details. But basically, just to summarize1425it, they were using Oswald operationally in Mexico City.1426    Mr. Biggs. Thank you.1427    And since I am going to be out of time--that two and a half1428minutes. Let me just go real quick. I ask that we obtain a copy1429of Mr. Hardway's report--at least I do not have it--regarding1430Oswald in Mexico. Release the Joannides file, the JFK files in1431Belarus and Moscow, the files on Jack Ruby, and also the1432Manchester interview of Jacqueline Kennedy and Robert Kennedy.1433And also, Madam Chair, finally----1434    Mrs. Luna. Thank you, Mr. Biggs.1435    Mr. Biggs [continuing]. The Zapruder film.1436    Mrs. Luna. We will be taking a look at that.1437    And then also referencing the Joannides file, so everyone1438is tracking, we are actively trying to track that down. I1439believe that that is the one outstanding document that the CIA1440will not be able to find. So, isn't that interesting?1441    I would like to now recognize Mr. Garcia for 5 minutes.1442    Mr. Garcia. Thank you, Madam Chair.1443    Ms. Coe, I wanted to start--thank you. I know you are an1444experienced historian. You have written a biography, of course,1445of President Kennedy. You know, for me, I am always1446interested--I am a big believer in the notion that the FBI and1447the CIA, particularly in earlier versions, have been and over-1448classified an enormous amount of information, not just on the1449topic of President Kennedy's assassination but just throughout1450the government. And there is a lot, I think, to criticize those1451agencies, and a lot that the American public should be1452concerned with in the way they have influenced and tried to1453influence American policy in world events throughout the1454decades. I think that part is clear.1455    I also think it is important--before taking this job, I was1456a long-time educator, was on the faculty, done an enormous1457amount of research. For me, following facts and ensuring that1458we are sticking to facts is really important, even as we seek1459to gain more clarity about historical events. And so, I1460appreciate that.1461    As it relates to the March 18 release of documents, which I1462think has brought, certainly, more color and more information1463to the historical record, you had said earlier in your1464testimony that there was not necessarily, you know, an enormous1465amount of new information, but there certainly was some1466additional kind of color to what we already know.1467    Do you want to talk about that and what as far as how1468important was that declassification of additional records to1469the broader picture of President Kennedy?1470    Ms. Coe. Thank you. And thank you for this time and these1471questions.1472    I have to say that I am a little bit concerned about the1473way certain theories represented as facts on the panel, and1474that there is a lot of demand for more information, which is1475always good, but it is based on the pretense that what has been1476found has radically changed everything. And I do not see that1477as true. I think we are still finding things. I am not1478convinced that some of the details were not already out there.1479There have been leaks. There has been access.1480    So, I do think that this idea of a grand conspiracy--I do1481think that--and I am glad that we can all agree that there was1482incredible overreach in the mid-20th century and for some time.1483And there is--there are wonderful books on Hoover that give1484greater color to that and background that have made1485contributions. And, in particular, I think last year or the1486year before there was a biography called ``G-Man'' by a1487professor named Beverly Gage, and that was excellent.1488    What I find to be an interesting disconnect here is that1489there is so much concern about cover-ups with the CIA when it1490comes to Kennedy, and I do not see that same concern being1491translated to Martin Luther King and to his records. It feels1492like Hoover 2.0.1493    And in that case, in the case of MLK, we do know that there1494is actually a historical precedent. The FBI mounted illegal1495surveillance. There was character assassination.1496    Mr. Garcia. And, Ms. Coe--and I think just to, for time,1497and just so you know, there also is a lot of interest, I know,1498from Members of the Committee on both sides of the aisle on1499what you are discussing.1500    I want to go to, before I go to Judge Tunheim, because I1501also am in a similar place where I feel that, you know, my1502researcher brain is very much--I agree. I do not know that the1503release of the documents presented any sort of groundbreaking1504new information. Certainly, added color and more--rounded out1505kind of what we already know. But I do, I want to just caution1506us in not using what was released as a kind of jumping-off1507point to additional conspiracies, right?1508    Now, I think there are valuable questions, and I respect1509Members of this Committee that are looking to get certain1510questions answered, that there is a lot of concern in the1511public. There is public interest in this. I mean, there is no1512question in that. So, I do, I respect that. But I also value1513that we stick to what we know. Certainly going--if there are1514questions that lead us in a different direction, we will follow1515those, but I think that is really important.1516    Judge Tunheim, I just also want to ask you just, similar to1517what I asked Ms. Coe, do you think that this release of the1518records that just happened has added any substantial new1519information to what we already know?1520    Mr. Tunheim. You know, I think any release of records gives1521you more color, more pieces of the puzzle, so to speak. And I1522think this has been a very interesting--I have not had a chance1523to look through a lot of the materials, but a lot of the1524materials that have redactions in were materials we never saw.1525So, they were not shown to us before. So, I think that is1526significant, that there are documents being released there.1527    I do not see any answers, any new answers to any of the old1528questions here. But it is filling out the record more.1529    And I would like to see a time when everything has been1530released, unredacted. It is 60-some years since the1531assassination. The assassination was closer to World War I than1532we are to the assassination. Let us release the materials. And1533that is my plea here, is just get everything out. Let people1534decide what they want.1535    Mr. Garcia. Thank you.1536    And with that, I yield back.1537    Mrs. Luna. Thank you, Rep. Garcia.1538    The Chair would now like to recognize Mr. Burchett for 51539minutes.1540    Mr. Burchett. Thank you, Chairlady.1541    Dr. Curtis, what happened when the Warren Commission called1542you to testify about what you knew about the JFK wounds? Dr.1543Curtis?1544    Dr. Curtis. Could you say that again?1545    Mr. Burchett. Yes, sir. I am sorry. I have got hearing aids1546too, so do not worry about it, brother.1547    What happened when the Warren Commission called you to1548testify about what you knew about JFK's wounds?1549    Dr. Curtis. Well, the Warren Commission has not called me1550to testify at all.1551    Mr. Burchett. Not at all?1552    Dr. Curtis. Huh-uh.1553    Mr. Burchett. OK.1554    Dr. Curtis. I did not use up all my time, and I would like1555to make some additional comments regarding----1556    Mrs. Luna. Sir, you have the time that you need, so please1557proceed.1558    Dr. Curtis. OK. Well, let me know when I can do it.1559    Mrs. Luna. Well, now, sir. I believe Mr. Burchett has a1560line of questions for you, so you are free to talk to Mr.1561Burchett.1562    Mr. Burchett. Yes, sir.1563    Can you explain what condition--when President Kennedy1564arrived in the emergency room, what was his condition at that1565point?1566    Dr. Curtis. He had already died.1567    Mr. Burchett. OK. How many wounds did you observe on1568President Kennedy?1569    Dr. Curtis. How many wounds? President Kennedy had a wound1570to, of course, the big wound to his head.1571    Mr. Burchett. Right.1572    Dr. Curtis. But he also had a wound to his throat. And I1573have got a little diagram here. I can point that out, how that1574worked, if you would like me to.1575    Mr. Burchett. And that would not have been a single bullet1576wound, though, right? They talk about this magical bullet that1577traveled. That would have been more than one bullet, you think?1578    Dr. Curtis. Magic bullet was not--did not strike the1579President at all.1580    Mr. Burchett. OK. That was a clean bullet. I saw the1581picture.1582    Oh. Yes. Please show the diagram.1583    Dr. Curtis. OK. The bullets that were fired--the blue1584bullet was the bullet that arrived first. And you can see it1585started from--probably from the railroad trestle, which is to1586the southwest, and came up and first struck President Kennedy1587before he got out from under the tree that prevented the window1588shooter from shooting. And we know that because of the Zapruder1589film showed President Kennedy holding his throat in real1590distress when the Zapruder film started.1591    And he had already been shot, and that wound to his throat1592would have killed him. It did kill him because we know from the1593tracheostomy that we had to do that the bullet to his throat1594obstructed the trachea. And so, he had taken his last breath1595before that.1596    Also, the bullet that struck President Kennedy in the1597temple killed him also because it just removed about a third of1598his brain. And the part of the brain that it removed was in the1599posterior part of the brain, and that is the area of the brain1600that controls the parasympathetic and the autonomic nervous1601system.1602    And so, the two bullets that came from the window, one1603struck Connally. And the only thing that it did--it went in1604Connally's shoulder, went through his chest, came out of his1605chest, into his left wrist, into his left leg. And that1606indicates that the bullet was coming from the north going1607southwest. And that bullet was only for Governor Connally.1608    The other bullet that came out was this other one here.1609That would have been the magic bullet. That is the one that1610went in the President's back. And the Warren Commission then1611wanted to choose that bullet to be the magic bullet which went1612through the top of his head.1613    Now, the--that is essentially what I wanted to say.1614    Mr. Burchett. OK. And that was how many bullets, did you1615say? Three or four?1616    Dr. Curtis. That were fired?1617    Mr. Burchett. Yes, sir.1618    Dr. Curtis. Four.1619    Mr. Burchett. OK. And that was a bolt action, Italian1620carbine that the magic bullet came from?1621    Dr. Curtis. Well, two of the bullets came from the front.1622    Mr. Burchett. Yes, sir. Yes, sir, I know, but they were1623trying to tell us Lee Harvey Oswald was the only one.1624    Dr. Curtis. Only bullets that came from the window were two1625bullets and--three bullets came from the window. One hit the1626curb, the other hit Connally. And the other one went in the1627President's back. And that is well documented.1628    Mr. Burchett. Yes, sir. Thank you.1629    And I yield no time.1630    Mrs. Luna. Thank you.1631    The Chair would like to now recognize Mr. Burlison for 51632minutes.1633    Mr. Burlison. Thank you for your testimony.1634    Mr. Hardway, it is clear that you faced firsthand the1635obstruction by the CIA. Would that be accurate to say? In your1636investigations.1637    Mr. Hardway. Yes.1638    Mr. Burlison. And specifically, they used methods like use1639of sealed envelopes, redactions that violated the 19771640Memorandum of Understanding. My question really is about what1641seems to be evident is that they were very much obstructing any1642information about Oswald's interactions in Mexico City. Is that1643accurate?1644    Mr. Hardway. That is correct.1645    Mr. Burlison. Why do you think that is?1646    Mr. Hardway. I believe that we can draw reasonable1647inferences from the evidence that is of record and that is very1648persuasive and clearly of record that are facts and not1649theories that clearly point to the fact that Lee Harvey Oswald1650was being used in an operation in Mexico City in September 19631651and early October 1963.1652    The nature of the operation was a dangle and a propaganda1653operation designed to discredit the Fair Play for Cuba1654Committee. It was designed and ran by George Joannides, under1655the supervision of David Atlee Phillips, who had been leading1656the CIA's anti-FPCC efforts since 1958. And it was a very1657successful operation. The Cuban consulate had just recently1658opened. The operation allowed them to observe, from a distance,1659the interactions and reactions of the--not just the Cuban1660consulate but the Soviet embassy to Oswald's presenting1661himself. And it also went a real long way to discrediting the1662FPCC.1663    In addition to that, you can see the exact same pattern of1664operation was conducted using Oswald in New Orleans in August16651963 in which he encountered the DRE, also encountered student1666groups. It is almost the exact--it is a shadow of what they1667then did in Mexico City.1668    Now, the fact that, in my opinion, the fact that they ran1669Oswald operationally in Mexico City does not mean necessarily,1670or even inferentially, that they were involved in the actual1671assassination. It is entirely possible that on November 22, two1672of the most surprised men in the world were David Atlee1673Phillips and George Joannides.1674    And consequently, the one does not necessarily lead to the1675other in any way, shape, or form. But stop and think about it.1676If they were running an operation in which the accused shooter1677was involved as an asset, either witting or unwitting, think1678about the motivation for cover-up. It had to be something1679extraordinary that they were covering up in order to violate1680their charter and in spite of the Houston Agreement that agrees1681not to prosecute CIA officers for crimes committed in the1682furtherance of their duties in the United States, in spite of1683that, they feloniously obstructed a congressional1684investigation.1685    There had to be something significant that they were1686covering up. And what that significance was, and basically,1687David Robarge, the CIA historian, has in a backhanded way1688admitted that in things he has written, was the use of Oswald1689in an operation in Mexico City.1690    Mr. Burlison. So, you think that it was--if you had to be1691pressed on it--it sounds like there is two scenarios. One is1692that Oswald--I mean, both scenarios, Oswald had some1693involvement in connection with the CIA. But in one scenario, he1694is being directed by individuals in the CIA to commit the1695assassination, and then the other scenario is that he did it1696and they just flubbed. They did not pick up on the fact that he1697was planning this assassination.1698    Mr. Hardway. I do not think we can draw any inference from1699the evidence on any of that. As to whether or not he was being1700directed in the assassination, I do not think that David1701Phillips and George Joannides were directing him in the1702assassination. I do not think they would have been using him in1703Mexico if they did.1704    Mr. Burlison. Some of the documentation indicates recently,1705from the 2017 release, that he was not alone when he went to1706Mexico City.1707    Mr. Hardway. I cannot say that he was not alone, from the1708research we did in Mexico City. What we could not rule out was1709that he was imitated, or that another person was there1710pretending to be Oswald, or that some of the telephone1711conversations that were recorded on the taps at Russian and1712Cuban facilities were actually Oswald speaking. In fact, it is1713pretty clear that some of the calls that claimed to be Oswald1714were not Oswald.1715    Mr. Burlison. Wow. Thank you.1716    My time has expired.1717    Mrs. Luna. Thank you.1718    The Chair would like to now recognize Mr. Crane for 51719minutes.1720    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Ms. Chairwoman. Thank you guys for1721coming today.1722    I want to start with you, Dr. Curtis. As a dental surgeon1723who was present in the hospital room the day President Kennedy1724was shot, you were able to observe his wounds and maybe some of1725his medical records. Is that correct?1726    Can you not hear me, Dr. Curtis?1727    Dr. Curtis. I am sorry, I could not hear what you said.1728    Mr. Crane. So, you were there in the emergency room the day1729that the President was brought in?1730    Dr. Curtis. Yes.1731    Mr. Crane. How old were you, sir?1732    Dr. Curtis. How old was I?1733    Mr. Crane. Yes.1734    Dr. Curtis. 26.1735    Mr. Crane. 26? And what did you observe when they brought1736the President in?1737    Dr. Curtis. The President was already in the room before I1738arrived. And what I observed about him, that he had probably1739already deceased.1740    Mr. Crane. Since you were a dental surgeon, why did they1741bring you into the operation room?1742    Dr. Curtis. That is one thing that Arlen Specter asked me,1743``What is a dentist doing operating on the President?'' Then I1744had to qualify myself. The training that I have encompassed1745those particular procedures, and that is a simple procedure and1746I did it well, and I just knew how to do it. There was nobody1747else there to do it, and I did it because Dr. Carrico asked me1748to do it.1749    Mr. Crane. Can you tell us about the wounds that you1750observed on the President and how they differ from what came1751out in some of the reporting?1752    Dr. Curtis. The wounds on the President were to his throat1753and to his head and to his back. The wound to his throat would1754have killed him. The wound to his head definitely would have1755killed him. The wound to his back would not have killed him.1756    Mr. Crane. Did the wounds to his throat and his head look1757like completely separate wounds?1758    Dr. Curtis. They were two separate wounds. One--let me show1759it to you.1760    The blue wound was sent from the railroad trestle all the1761way over to kill him right here, and that went to his throat.1762And the way that killed him is that it obstructed the trachea1763and he could not breathe. So, he would have been dead before he1764reached the hospital just simply because of that wound.1765    The other wound that he had to his head would have killed1766him instantly because it removed about a third of his brain.1767    Mr. Crane. Thank you.1768    Mr. Hardway, I want to move to you next. You talked about1769the obstruction of a Federal investigation that you, yourself,1770witnessed. You were on the House Select Committee for1771Assassination. Is that correct?1772    Mr. Hardway. Yes, sir.1773    Mr. Crane. What year would that have been?1774    Mr. Hardway. 1977 and 1978. The obstruction occurred1775entirely in 1978.1776    Mr. Crane. What was your role in that investigation?1777    Mr. Hardway. My role was a researcher, with primary1778responsibility for researching Lee Harvey Oswald's activities1779in Mexico City and the CIA response to that.1780    Mr. Crane. We have heard about some of the administrative1781roadblocks that the CIA put up for you. Did you have any direct1782verbal communication with anybody at the CIA?1783    Mr. Hardway. Oh, yes. Frequently.1784    Mr. Crane. Can you tell us about some of those conversation1785and how it might have been conceived as obstruction?1786    Mr. Hardway. Well, when we first started, we had unlimited1787unexpurgated access. We had two clerks assigned to us. We had1788our office at the CIA. Pretty much went to work out there every1789morning. We would ask for a file, they would go get it, we1790would review it. It was unredacted and given to us in its1791original state.1792    After they brought George Joannides in, he began slowly1793tightening down the process. We were no longer working with two1794clerks who went and got us our files. We had to file formally,1795request, through him, to get the files, and we started1796experiencing significant delays in the files that we would get.1797    We started noticing that the files we would get would have1798obvious things missing from them. Then he went so far as to1799actually start putting parts of the files in envelopes and1800leaving them in the files so that what we would get is we would1801sign that we would have seen the files, but we were not allowed1802to open the stuff that he had placed in envelopes.1803    That came back to haunt us later in dealing with the final1804report and some of the things we were trying to get out of1805them. When they would tell the chairman of the committee, he1806has seen that, here is where he signed for the file. And I1807would have to explain to Chairman Stokes that, no, that was not1808in the file when I saw it because that was what I was looking1809for and it was not there. It must have been in one of the1810envelopes. And so, he eventually just shut us down.1811    It culminated on one file that I really wanted to see. When1812it was presented to me, Mr. Joannides showed up, himself, to1813give it to me. He was actually bouncing on his toes. He was--1814him and Scott Breckinridge brought the file to me at the CIA,1815called me back out there to see it. It had not just been1816redacted; it had been retyped with the redactions in white1817space as it had been retyped. It was a report on a debriefing1818of a certain person.1819    I exploded. I acted like a very angry 24-year-old and had1820choice words for both of them and stormed out of the office and1821went back to the headquarters.1822    I, subsequently, thanks to Judge Tunheim's work, saw the1823memorandum to the record that Mr. Breckinridge wrote. And the1824memorandum for the record says that the file was shown to me1825and, quote, ``no objections were recorded,'' close quote.1826    Notice the way, see, you have to watch what the CIA says.1827He did not say that I did not make any, which is what everyone1828infers from what he said. What he said was none were recorded,1829and that is because he made the record.1830    Mr. Crane. Thank you. I yield back.1831    Mrs. Luna. The Chair would now like to recognize1832Representative Mace.1833    Ms. Mace. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for your1834leadership on this Committee.1835    For decades, elements in our government have engaged in an1836extensive cover-up to subvert the will of Congress and to keep1837the American public in the dark relating to the assassination1838of John F. Kennedy. No matter how ugly it is or how1839inconvenient it is to elites, organized crime, or deep state1840bureaucrats, the American people deserve the truth, and they1841can handle the truth.1842    While the American public still may be in the dark, poll1843after poll made clear the cover-up has failed. Approximately1844two-thirds of Americans still do not buy the official narrative1845from our government that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. Cover-1846ups and a failure to be transparent has rightfully bred1847distrust, so much distrust nearly 40 percent of Americans1848believe the U.S. Government was involved in the assassination1849of JFK. Let that sink in--nearly 40 percent.1850    This Task Force, working alongside President Trump, is1851working to use sunshine as a disinfectant and give the American1852people the pure, unvarnished truth they deserve.1853    Mr. Hardway--thank you for being here, to all of our1854witnesses today--you worked for the House Select Committee on1855Assassinations which investigated the assassination of JFK. You1856had firsthand interactions with the CIA as you worked to get1857the truth. Based on what you witnessed, do you believe the CIA1858engaged in a concerted effort to cover up certain facts related1859to the assassination of President Kennedy?1860    Mr. Hardway. Yes.1861    Ms. Mace. Do you believe the efforts to obstruct1862congressional investigations into the assassination of1863President Kennedy by the CIA you have described violated1864Federal law?1865    Mr. Hardway. People more expert in Federal criminal law1866than I am have expressed that opinion to me and have expressed1867that opinion under oath.1868    Ms. Mace. Based on what you know, what relationship, if1869any, did the CIA have with Lee Harvey Oswald prior to the1870assassination of President Kennedy?1871    Mr. Hardway. Based upon the circumstantial evidence of1872record--and it is overwhelming--they had an either used him as1873either a witting or an unwitting agent of influence.1874    Ms. Mace. Seems that way, doesn't it?1875    Do you believe there is evidence to suggest the CIA was1876using Lee Harvey Oswald in active intelligence operations1877shortly before the assassination of President Kennedy?1878    Mr. Hardway. Yes.1879    Ms. Mace. Dr. Curtis.1880    Dr. Curtis. Yes.1881    Ms. Mace. Good afternoon, sir.1882    Dr. Curtis. Good afternoon.1883    Ms. Mace. You were one of the physicians who treated1884President Kennedy at Parkland Memorial Hospital after he was1885shot. You were better situated than almost anyone to see1886President Kennedy's physical condition when he arrived at the1887hospital, and yet you have said, ``I cannot reconcile my1888knowledge of what I saw with the findings of the government,''1889is what you said at the time.1890    Dr. Curtis. Yes.1891    Ms. Mace. In your medical opinion, what do you attribute as1892the cause of President Kennedy's wounds?1893    Dr. Curtis. The cause of his death?1894    Mr. Mace. Mm-hmm.1895    Dr. Curtis. The two bullets that were fired from the front1896caused his death. And either one of them would have, the blue1897and the green----1898    Ms. Mace. Yes, sir.1899    Dr. Curtis [continuing]. Bullets.1900    Ms. Mace. And in your medical, you know, in your opinion,1901how does this differ from the findings of the government as to1902the cause of the wounds to the President? How did this differ?1903    Dr. Curtis. Could you say that again? I am sorry.1904    Ms. Mace. How are your findings, that you saw, of his1905condition when he died--how are your findings different from1906the government?1907    How did what the government said happened to JFK, how did1908your medical findings of his death--how are they different?1909    Dr. Curtis. The government wanted the President to have1910died from the window--from the bullets fired from the window1911because that would have caused Harvey Oswald to have done it.1912And they went to great lengths to make those two bullets do the1913job. Those two bullets did not do the job. One went in the1914President's back, and the other went into Governor Connally.1915So, those two bullets did not do anything to kill President1916Kennedy.1917    Ms. Mace. OK. My last question, Dr. Curtis. You ready? Are1918the wounds you observed consistent with the government's1919conclusion Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone?1920    Dr. Curtis. No.1921    Ms. Mace. Thank you, sir.1922    We thank all of our witnesses who are here today.1923    Chairwoman, thank you, and I yield back.1924    Mrs. Luna. Thank you, Representative Mace.1925    I now recognize myself for probably more than 5 minutes,1926so.1927    My first question goes to Judge Tunheim. Why did you tell1928President Biden that the CIA had deliberately misled your board1929about the Joannides file?1930    Mr. Tunheim. I did that because the CIA misled us. I mean,1931we had asked--I mean, we are picking up names all along, and1932people were telling us about other people to ask about. And we1933have been after the Joannides file for a while, and what we got1934was something very small. It looked like just a personnel file.1935You know, what he got paid and, you know, when he separated and1936that sort of thing.1937    And the staff looked at it and thought it was not1938significant and sent it back. In retrospect, we should not have1939done that. We should have asked for more. But they were told,1940the staff was told, that was all they had on Joannides, which1941is clearly incorrect.1942    So, that is why I had said that we had been deliberately1943misled by the CIA as to the nature of the Joannides files that1944were there. And I think the files likely are still there and1945can be released and should be released.1946    Mrs. Luna. Yes. I would like to actually note for the1947public that is tuning in that we have been in talks with1948Director Ratcliffe. And although he has been supportive, there1949has, in my opinion, been an orchestrated effort previously to1950hide this information. And so, they are, while actively1951searching for it, also having issues locating it. So, we are1952trying on our end.1953    But you are correct, sir, in that observation. And I thank1954you for being here today to testify to that.1955    My next question is actually for Dr. Curtis. Was there1956anyone specifically on the Warren Commission that made the1957attempted effort or that you felt you were being pressured to1958either be silenced on what you saw and/or bullied and/or1959threatened into not speaking the truth?1960    Dr. Curtis. I was never pressured to be silent. But I did1961have action with Arlen Specter that was not good.1962    Mrs. Luna. What happened, sir?1963    Dr. Curtis. He did a deposition for me and had not told me1964about it ahead of time.1965    The nurse leaned in the operating room that morning and1966said, the Warren Commission is in town. If you have time, go1967down and talk to them. So, I finished my cases and went down1968and talked to Arlen Specter.1969    He was friendly and nice and was very well-groomed, in a1970beautiful suit, shiny shoes. And I had my hair all messed up,1971in a scrub suit, dirty shoes. So, it was definitely top down.1972And he was friendly and nice.1973    And then started asking me biographical questions that made1974it obvious to me that he knew the answers to the question1975before he asked it. And so, that made me wonder, why on Earth1976does he know all that about me?1977    Then he said, ``What did you see about the exit wound?''1978    Well, there was not one.1979    ``Really?''1980    No, there was not one.1981    And then, so, he asked me three or four more times about1982the exit wound. And the last time he asked me is, ``Dr. Curtis,1983every other doctor has suggested and testified that there was1984an exit wound. And you did not see it?''1985    No, I did not.1986    And so, during this--the visit I had with him was maybe1987about 20 to 30 minutes. And during that time, he made me feel1988that I had a reason for being in the trauma room, to be sure1989the President died.1990    Now, I had a wife and two babies at home that were1991completely dependent on me. If I lost my residency, it would be1992terribly, a big problem for me. So, he gave me--he said, ``OK,1993now, I need you to wait right here for a little bit before we1994do your deposition.'' And I said, deposition? He said, ``Yes,1995you are having your deposition today.'' And I said, well, I did1996not know that. He said, ``Well, I sent you a letter.'' Which I1997did not get. He said, ``Do you want a lawyer?'' And I said, do1998I need a lawyer? He said, ``Fella, you are the only one in this1999room that knows if you need a lawyer. Do you want me to get you2000one?'' I said, I do not think so.2001    But he asked me over and over again about the exit wound.2002Then we got in on the--he got the committee together, nobody2003that I had ever seen before, sitting behind the table, and put2004me on a high stool, uncomfortably. And I remember my foot kept2005slipping off that bottom rung. And then started asking me2006questions.2007    He never did bring up the exit wound. He never did say a2008thing about it. Till at the last, he said, ``Dr. Curtis, did2009you see anything that was like a puncture or an opening in the2010trachea? Or the throat?'' And I said no. And he said, but then2011I thought, well, the blood was right over that, so I could not2012have seen it. So, I said, but that does not mean it was not2013there.2014    Thank you for Dr. Curtis. That is what he wanted.2015    Mrs. Luna. Would it be fair to say that other doctors that2016you worked with that were in the room that day that were2017responding to President Kennedy's wounds had the same2018observations as you? Yes or no.2019    Dr. Curtis. There were only two of us that saw the throat2020before the tracheostomy was done.2021    Mrs. Luna. OK.2022    Dr. Curtis. Is that the answer?2023    Mrs. Luna. Whatever you would like to share with Congress,2024sir.2025    Dr. Curtis. So, I saw it, and I do not--there was no exit2026wounds. That is what Arlen Specter wanted, was an exit wound,2027because the magic bullet had to exit the throat to go into2028Governor Connally, which could not have happened. The magic2029bullet would have had to make three fine 90-degree turns to do2030what it did. It was coming down from the window, would have had2031to turn right angle to be horizontal through the neck, would2032have had to turn right again to go over to wherever Governor2033Connally was. Would have to turn right again to go into2034Governor Connally. That does not work.2035    Mrs. Luna. Yes, I can speak for myself. I do not believe in2036the magic bullet theory.2037    Dr. Curtis. Do not do that.2038    Mrs. Luna. No, I do not, sir.2039    My next question is for Mr. Douglas Horne. To your2040knowledge, did even the Dallas Police Department or the FBI2041subject Lee Harvey Oswald to a paraffin test to determine2042whether he had fired the gun on November 22, 1963?2043    Mr. Horne. I am going from memory, but I believe the FBI2044did, and he tested negative for firing a rifle.2045    Mrs. Luna. So, he----2046    Mr. Horne. The paraffin test on his face shows he did not2047fire a bolt-action rifle, especially not a lousy rifle like the2048Mannlicher-Carcano, which was an 1894 design or something.2049    Mrs. Luna. What is the status of the record interview the2050author William Manchester conducted with Jacqueline Kennedy.2051Mr. Horne?2052    Mr. Horne. Well, my understanding is that--well, first of2053all, the Kennedy family liked William Manchester initially,2054because he had written a campaign book in 1960 about the2055campaign. So, they said, ``OK, why don't you write the book2056about the death of Jack, about the death of President2057Kennedy?'' When the book was reviewed by Jacqueline and Robert2058F. Kennedy, apparently Robert F. Kennedy had many objections.2059And so, the Kennedy family sued Mr. Manchester when the books2060were in galley form, and they required that he take out certain2061portions of the text. So, the lawsuit, what the lawsuit did,2062was it said, the portions of the text that you removed will be2063sequestered until 2067. And the interviews you did with2064Jacqueline Kennedy and Robert F. Kennedy will be sequestered,2065withheld until 2067. So, that was the result of that lawsuit.2066And so, what we read today when we read Manchester's book is a2067sanitized or redacted version of his book. And we do not know2068what was removed until 2067. That is just very unfortunate. And2069I know Chairman Tunheim really made an effort to get Caroline2070Kennedy to agree to lift that court seal and she did not want2071to.2072    Mrs. Luna. Also, to your knowledge, which autopsy photos2073are missing?2074    Mr. Horne. OK, I would be glad to answer that question. I2075have a list here and it is reasonably succinct, so bear with2076me.2077    Mrs. Luna. Well, you have me and Garcia here, so I think we2078are at your disposal.2079    Mr. Horne. Here we go, here we go. I mentioned eight sets2080that I know with confidence from studying the evidence as an2081analyst are missing. First, an overhead wide shot of JFK's body2082taken from the stepladder, taken by John Stringer, the Navy2083photographer. He testified under oath to that.2084    Second, a large bruise atop the right lung, taken from2085inside the interior of the chest after the lungs were removed.2086So, this is a large blood clot up above where the apical2087portion of the lung was. And that has been testified to by both2088Dr. Humes and Stringer that they took those photographs. So,2089they are not in the record.2090    Third, an entrance wound in the lower right of the skull,2091with the scalp reflected, taken from outside the skull. And2092next, that same entrance wound in the lower right of the skull2093with the photo taken from inside the cranium after the brain2094was removed. So, what is the issue with these two photos being2095missing is they would have determined definitively where was2096the entrance wound in the back of the head.2097    Mrs. Luna. Well, that would have been one of the Harper2098frag----2099    Mr. Horne. No.2100    Mrs. Luna. Separate.2101    Mr. Horne. No, separate issue.2102    Mrs. Luna. OK.2103    Mr. Horne. The condition of the back of the--here is2104another missing photo--the condition of the back of the head2105after embalming and reconstruction was completed, which still2106showed an exit defect that could not be closed. The witness2107that claims that was Saundra Spencer, a Navy photographer's2108mate, who our general counsel, Jeremy Gunn, considered our most2109reliable medical witness. And so, what she did was she2110developed color negatives, and then prints of the President's2111body. Postmortem photographs, but she said, when we deposed2112her, she said, ``Oh, these pictures in the Archives are2113horrible. We see open body cavities and a lot of blood, and the2114President looks really bad.'' She said, the photographs that I2115developed, he had been cleaned up, the head had been2116reconstructed, but there was still a hole in the back of the2117head, even after the head was reconstructed.2118    Mrs. Luna. So, you have witness testimony that the Archives2119photographs do not reflect what----2120    Mr. Horne. Yes, yes. She testified under oath to that fact.2121    Another missing photograph is a series, is that Robert2122Knudsen was a White House social photographer. He was involved2123with developing photography the weekend after the assassination2124by the President's military physician, Dr. Burkley. So, Knudsen2125testified to the HSCA that'' I developed a black and white film2126pack, negatives, black and white negatives, showing numerous2127probes in the President's body.'' And, of course, probes are2128important because they determine bullet tracks, where the2129bullets go in, where they come out, if they come out. And he2130remembered developing them and holding them up to the light in2131a darkroom after they were developed. And he remembered seeing2132probes in the body in this black and white film pack. And in2133the official autopsy collection, there was no black and white2134film pack used in photographs of the body. They are 4 by 5-inch2135duplex film. They are not black and white film packs. And there2136are no photographs of probes in the body in the official2137collection.2138    And one of the people we interviewed was Dr. Karnei who was2139a resident at Bethesda, and when we told him, Jeremy Gunn and2140I, when we told him that there were no photographs of probes in2141the body in the official autopsy photo collection, he became2142physically agitated and his face turned bright pink. And he2143said, ``I came in and out of the morgue many times as the2144resident on duty that night, but I saw flashbulbs going off2145when there were probes in the body. And you are telling me2146there is no photos in the collection?'' We said, that is right.2147So, two more that are missing and that concludes my answer.2148    Black and white prints were seen by numerous people showing2149a large exit defect in the rear of JFK's head. So, Mr. Knudsen,2150the White House photographer, Navy Chief Knudsen, showed such2151photos to another White House photographer, Joe O'Donnell, the2152week after the President died, black and white prints showing a2153big exit wound in the back of the head. There are no such2154photos in the collection, but Joe O'Donnell said there were and2155another witness that saw those photos was Navy Corpsman Dennis2156David. And he was shown those photographs by the Bethesda Naval2157hospital audio visual department head, Lieutenant Commander2158Pitzer.2159    The last type of photo that is missing, black and white2160prints of an entry wound high on the forehead up here, not in2161the temple, but high in the forehead, before the right eye.2162Black and white prints showing that were shown by Mr. Knudsen,2163by Chief Knudsen to Mr. O'Donnell. They were also seen by2164Dennis David when the Lieutenant Commander Pitzer showed him2165autopsy photographs. And a third witness surfaced in the year21662010, Quentin Schwinn, who lives in Cleveland. And he, during a2167Federal job interview believe it or not, during a Federal job2168interview with an intelligence agency when he was at the2169Rochester Institute of Technology, majoring in photography, he2170was shown a color positive transparency showing an entry wound2171high on the forehead of JFK. So, that is my kind of lengthy2172answer on which photographers am I confident are missing.2173    Mrs. Luna. Thank you very much. And then real quickly,2174because my last line of questioning is for Mr. Bolden.2175    What is the evidence that you refer to about an2176interruption of chain of custody of President Kennedy's body2177prior to the start of the autopsy shortly after 8 p.m.2178    Mr. Horne. Right. Because of this venue and this format, I2179will have to give you a streamlined answer. I am sure everyone2180will appreciate that. We know for a fact that the motorcade2181from Andrews Air Force Base with a bronze Dallas casket in it2182arrived in front of Bethesda at 6:55 p.m. Remember that time.2183That is documented by the Secret Service report of Agent Clint2184Hill, and by newspapers reporters. But the review board2185obtained an extremely important document written by a Marine2186Corps noncommissioned officer, Sergeant Boijin, of the United2187States Marine Corps. He led a team of Marines from the Marine2188barracks in Washington, DC. to provide physical security at the2189autopsy. This was not the honor guard in dress uniforms, these2190were Marines from the Marine barracks to provide physical2191security.2192    He wrote a report of what happened that night and he wrote,2193in his report, dated November 26, 1963, he wrote that--and he2194is only talking about what happened with the President, because2195that was his job was to guard the President's body during the2196autopsy--he wrote that the casket arrived at 18:35 hours. 18:352197hours, that is 6:35 p.m., 20 minutes before the motorcade from2198Andrews arrived. And there is a considerable amount of2199evidence, a wide range of evidence that the President's body2200really arrived by helicopter before the motorcade from Andrews.2201That is the broken chain of custody. And the issue here, it is2202a very important one, a very important issue, the issue here is2203if Sergeant Boijin's report is correct, and he authenticated2204that to the review board staff. He authenticated that to me2205with a written letter and with a telephone interview. If his2206report is correct, then what was happening with the President's2207body between 6:35 p.m. and 8 o'clock when the autopsy of record2208started? That is almost an hour and a half. And the simple2209answer, the streamlined answer, appears to be that many metal2210fragments were removed from President Kennedy's body before the2211autopsy of record began. We have witnesses for this.2212    Mrs. Luna. Those would be the bullet fragments, correct.2213    Mr. Horne. Yes. Tom Robinson of Gawler's Funeral Home saw a2214vial full of 10 tiny fragments, which he saw picked out of2215President Kennedy's brain. They were never placed in the2216record.2217    Dennis David, HM-1 Corpsman Dennis David, typed a receipt2218for a Federal agent of four large bullet fragments. He thought2219it would be mass, larger than one bullet and less mass than two2220bullets. Somewhere between one and two bullets, four large2221fragments. He typed the receipt. He was allowed to handle the2222fragments by the Federal agent. We would not do that today. And2223the agent took the receipt, the typewriter ribbon and the2224fragments and they were never introduced in the record.2225    We also have two witnesses, to make a long story short, we2226have two witnesses to surgery on the cranium to get this2227evidence out. And Dr. Humes, the chief pathologist, said under2228oath to Arlen Specter, Dr. Humes said, under oath, that I never2229had to perform a craniotomy, I never had to saw the skull open2230to get the brain out.2231    And when Dr. Fink arrived late for the autopsy--he was the2232outsider, the Army guy who arrived at 8:30--Humes told Dr.2233Fink, no sawing of the skull was necessary.2234    So, the end of my response here is that we have two2235witnesses, X-ray technician, Ed Reed, under oath to the review2236board, and Tom Robinson to both the House Committee and the2237review board, Tom Robinson told the same account to both the2238HSCA and to us that he saw Dr. Hume saw the skull open.2239    So, I think bullet fragments were removed from the2240President's body before the autopsy of record began and that is2241why we should have no confidence whatsoever in the autopsy.2242    Mrs. Luna. Thank you very much.2243    My next question is for you, Mr. Bolden.2244    Mr. Bolden, can you hear me?2245    Mr. Bolden. Yes, I can.2246    Mrs. Luna. OK, sir. Thank you for sticking with us so long.2247I know it has been kind of long. But if you can, real quick,2248what did he observe about the Secret Service investigation of2249President Kennedy's assassination.2250    Mr. Bolden. It was one of the greatest cover-ups of a2251crime. Now, the Secret Service initiated so many cover-ups. No.22521, the number of bullet fragments that were found in the car.2253Harry Gagline (ph), on November the 26, looked at the car, the2254assassination automobile, and he found two cartridges laying on2255the front floor, floorboard. They were very damaged. And he2256also observed a bullet hole in the windshield. And he was told2257not to let the FBI know about any of this and to get the car to2258Michigan somewhere where they could put a new windshield in and2259clean the car up.2260    Now, the biggest thing that I was talking about was the2261violations of constitutional rights that followed, especially2262in my case, simply because I would not be quiet. I was framed,2263I was arrested. They attempted to declare me insane.2264    And I was put in Springfield, Missouri, forced to take2265drugs, mind-boggling drugs. Now, that stemmed from the fact2266that on the 18 of November 1964, I was called to Washington,2267DC, and they told me they were going to give me another name,2268change my identity, and that I would become another individual.2269And that, in fact, did happen. And I think that they were2270setting me up for assassination myself. I think that that was2271what was going on. Because when they sent me to the2272penitentiary, they made it clear that it was a case of my being2273so agitated about the assassination that I would not keep2274quiet.2275    And so, they gave me two trials. They had two convicts that2276I had arrested. And they put me on trial twice in 1 month. And2277that was never heard. They kidnapped me out of Washington, DC,2278a violation of my constitutional rights. Denied me an attorney,2279simply because they said I was not a team player. I would not2280keep my mouth shut.2281    And so, when they did that to me, they sent me to2282Springfield and put me in a camp there where I was threatened2283by one of the inmates. And they used that as an excuse that on2284July the 7, 1967 two guards came to the camp and got me and2285took me to what they call 2-1 east. And they undressed me, got2286me naked, threw me in a cell.2287    And the next thing I know, they were forcing medication on2288me. The guard came by, he says, we have medication. Told him, I2289said, I have not been before a court. No court has said that I2290was insane. You are supposed to take me to the court. But they2291did not do that. They forced me into take these drugs. One of2292them knocked me out. I fell on the floor. I had to go into the2293hospital to have it looked at. And this is how they treated me.2294    Now, I was kidnapped out of Washington, DC, brought to2295Chicago. Denied an attorney by the United States Attorney. I2296was then not given any food on that night, which was May the229718, 1964. They did not let me eat anything because they kept2298talking about I was not a team player and I did not keep my2299mouth shut.2300    And this is how they control the cover-up, agents became2301afraid. They did not want to talk. And there were so many2302cover-ups, Chief Rowley put out a memo that said any agent that2303gave information other than the information that he would2304provide would be censored severely.2305    Well, when they found out that I wanted to go to the Warren2306Commission, who was investigating the case appointed by2307President Johnson, I asked to go testify to the Warren2308Commission about what the Secret Service was doing and the type2309of protection that President Kennedy was receiving. And so,2310they brought me to Washington, DC, denied me an attorney, every2311constitutional right was violated, and forced me to take2312medical drugs, stripped me naked, removed me to such prisons.2313Now, here I was, an ex-Secret Service agent. They locked me up2314with people who I might have put in jail myself. I was2315threatened by these people. And it really affected me and my2316wife, Barbara Bolden, who stuck with me throughout this ordeal.2317    And to anybody who is listening, if you have a good wife,2318like Barbara was, keep her. Keep her, because that is--the2319scripture says a double band is not easily broke and they were2320talking about people like my dear wife who passed away in 2005.2321    So, I just want people to know that constitutional rights2322when I was on trial on July the 12, the jury was debating2323whether or not on a verdict. The judge called the jury forward2324and told the jury, ``In my opinion, Bolden is guilty on all the2325counts in the indictment,'' which was three counts. That jury2326did not find me guilty.2327    So, the judge set another trial for 2 weeks later. For 22328weeks now, a second trial. And we asked for a new judge. The2329judge himself, in violation Federal procedure, heard the motion2330himself. And the law says that if a complainant files a motion2331for a change of judge, that the judge who the complaint is2332against, shall not make the decision as to the prejudicial2333action.2334    So, here I am now. It took me 90 years, 90 years for him to2335look into it. It broke my heart, because America is supposed to2336be the leader in constitutional rights. It is supposed to be a2337leader in democracy. Yet, I felt so abandoned by the system.2338But I am glad I did. And I would do it again, because the2339American people need to know the truth. And the truth will set2340you free.2341    Mrs. Luna. Well, thank you, Mr. Bolden. And again, thank2342you for your----2343    Mr. Nixon. Madam Chairman.2344    Mrs. Luna. Yes.2345    Mr. Bolden. Madam Chairwoman, I am Tyler Nixon. I am2346counsel for Mr. Bolden. And I can just give a minute of2347clarification here.2348    Mr. Bolden was in fact prosecuted on what--I have delved2349into this case very deeply, this was one of the most rigged--2350you want to talk about weaponization of the judicial system and2351justice system. This man was railroaded. He had a judge, as he2352said, who told the jury that he believed that he was guilty. He2353set a new trial. And the two accusing witnesses were two men2354that he had arrested previously as counterfeiters. And the main2355witness who purportedly, you know, out of the goodness of his2356heart went to be head of the Secret Service, Maurice Martineau,2357to report the supposed solicitation of a bribe, which was the2358accusation, admitted in his trial about 2 months, 4 months2359later that he perjured himself in Mr. Bolden's trial.2360    Mrs. Luna. Yes, Mr. Nixon. We actually would be happy to2361collect all the information off record. But just due to the2362process----2363    Mr. Nixon. Sure.2364    Mrs. Luna [continuing]. As you are not a stated witness, we2365just have to be careful.2366    Mr. Nixon. Yes.2367    Mrs. Luna. So, I will say, at least I speak for myself, I2368do the not believe that Mr. Bolden was actually guilty of a2369crime. I do believe that he was falsely, if you will, framed.2370And so, on behalf of the U.S. Government, we would like to2371apologize to him and his family, because obviously that is not2372how we are supposed to treat people in this country. And so,2373you have our sympathy, as well as our apology, for the2374treatment of that. But we will be happy to follow up on that,2375because as stated, we would like to collect and make sure that2376this does not happen to future individuals. And that requires2377changing of laws and also putting protections in place.2378    But I would like to thank all of you. We have gone way over2379our time today, but the fact that you all travelled in and were2380willing to come testify, especially you, Dr. Curtis. Mr.2381Bolden, Judge Tunheim, Mr. Hardway, Mr. Horne, and Ms. Coe,2382thank you so much for coming here today.2383    If you do have any other information you would like to2384submit to the Task Force, we will happily accept that. And we2385will be following up on some of these suggestions that you have2386all made today.2387    And with that, and without objection, all Members will have23885 legislative days in which to submit materials and additional2389written questions for the witnesses, which will be forwarded to2390the witnesses for their responses as well. If you would like to2391submit anything else are the record, we would be happily2392accepting of that.2393    If there is no further business, without objection, the2394Task Force stands adjourned.2395    [Whereupon, at 4:46 p.m., the Task Force was adjourned.]23962397                                 [all]