“The Impacts of Temporary Protected Status”

1[House Hearing, 119 Congress]2[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]34                  PROTECTING CONSUMERS AND BUSINESSES:5                   CONFRONTING ORGANIZED RETAIL CRIME67=======================================================================89                                HEARING1011                               BEFORE THE1213                    SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME AND FEDERAL14                         GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE1516                                 OF THE1718                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY1920                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES2122                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS2324                             FIRST SESSION25                               __________2627                      WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 17, 202528                               __________2930                           Serial No. 119-4631                               __________3233         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary3435               [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]3637               Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov38                                ______3940                  U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE414262-401                    WASHINGTON : 20264344                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY4546                        JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair4748DARRELL ISSA, California             JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland, Ranking49ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                    Member50TOM McCLINTOCK, California           JERROLD NADLER, New York51THOMAS P. TIFFANY, Wisconsin         ZOE LOFGREN, California52THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              STEVE COHEN, Tennessee53CHIP ROY, Texas                      HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,54SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin            Georgia55BEN CLINE, Virginia                  ERIC SWALWELL, California56LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  TED LIEU, California57JEFFERSON VAN DREW, New Jersey       PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington58TROY E. NEHLS, Texas                 J. LUIS CORREA, California59BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania60KEVIN KILEY, California              JOE NEGUSE, Colorado61HARRIET M. HAGEMAN, Wyoming          LUCY McBATH, Georgia62LAUREL M. LEE, Florida               DEBORAH K. ROSS, North Carolina63WESLEY HUNT, Texas                   BECCA BALINT, Vermont64RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina          JESUS G. ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois65GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin            SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California66BRAD KNOTT, North Carolina           JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida67MARK HARRIS, North Carolina          DANIEL S. GOLDMAN, New York68ROBERT F. ONDER, Jr., Missouri       JASMINE CROCKETT, Texas69DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas70BRANDON GILL, Texas71MICHAEL BAUMGARTNER, Washington7273                                 ------7475                   SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME AND FEDERAL76                        GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE7778                       ANDY BIGGS, Arizona, Chair7980TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin               LUCY McBATH, Georgia, Ranking81TROY NEHLS, Texas                      Member82BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida83KEVIN KILEY, California              DAN GOLDMAN, New York84LAUREL LEE, Florida                  STEVE COHEN, Tennessee85BRAD KNOTT, North Carolina           ERIC SWALWELL, California8687               CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director88                ARTHUR EWENCZYK, Minority Staff Director8990                            C O N T E N T S9192                              ----------9394                      Wednesday, December 17, 20259596                           OPENING STATEMENTS9798                                                                   Page99The Honorable Andy Biggs, Chair of the Subcommittee on Crime and100  Federal Government Surveillance from the State of Arizona......     1101The Honorable Steve Cohen, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime102  and Federal Government Surveillance from the State of Tennessee     3103The Honorable Jamie Raskin, Ranking Member of the Committee on104  the Judiciary from the State of Maryland.......................     4105106                               WITNESSES107108Shane Bennett, Principal of Cyber Defense--Theft, Fraud & Abuse,109  Target110  Oral Testimony.................................................     8111  Prepared Testimony.............................................    10112The Hon. Summer Stephan, District Attorney, San Diego County,113  California114  Oral Testimony.................................................    16115  Prepared Testimony.............................................    18116Chris Spear, President and Chief Executive Officer, American117  Trucking Association118  Oral Testimony.................................................    26119  Prepared Testimony.............................................    28120Scott McBride, Chief Global Asset Protection Officer & CSO,121  American Eagle Outfitters Inc.122  Oral Testimony.................................................    42123  Prepared Testimony.............................................    44124125          LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING126127All materials submitted by the Subcommittee on Crime and Federal128  Government Surveillance, for the record........................    49129130A statement from the International Council of Shopping Centers131  (ICSC), Dec. 17, 2025, submitted by the Honorable Jamie Raskin,132  Ranking Member of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State133  of Maryland, for the record134A letter to the Honorable Andy Biggs, Chair of the Subcommittee135  on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance from the State of136  Arizona, and the Honorable Lucy McBath, Ranking Member of the137  Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance from138  the State of Georgia, from the National Association of139  Convenience Stores (NACS), Dec. 17, 2025, submitted by the140  Honorable Andy Biggs, Chair of the Subcommittee on Crime and141  Federal Government Surveillance from the State of Arizona, for142  the record143144                                APPENDIX145146Materials submitted by the Honorable Andy Biggs, Chair of the147  Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance from148  the State of Arizona, for the record149    A statement from the Intermodal Association of North America150        (IANA), Dec. 17, 2025151    A statement from The Home Depot, Dec. 17, 2025152    An article entitled, ``Walmart store closings 2024: See the153        full list of all the stores that closed this year,'' Jan.154        21, 2025, NJ.com155A statement from the National Retail Federation, Dec. 17, 2025,156  submitted by the Honorable Troy Nehls, a Member of the157  Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance from158  the State of Texas, for the record159160                  PROTECTING CONSUMERS AND BUSINESSES:161                   CONFRONTING ORGANIZED RETAIL CRIME162163                              ----------164165                      Wednesday, December 17, 2025166167                        House of Representatives168169              Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government170                              Surveillance171172                       Committee on the Judiciary173174                             Washington, DC175176    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:05 a.m., in177Room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, the Hon. Andy Biggs178[Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.179    Members present: Representatives Biggs, Tiffany, Nehls,180Moore, Kiley, Lee, Knott, Issa, Cohen, and Raskin.181    Mr. Biggs. The Committee, Subcommittee on Crime and182Government Surveillance, is called to order.183    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a184recess at any time. Without objection, Mr. Correa will be185permitted to participate in today's hearing for the purpose of186questioning witnesses. He will receive five minutes for that187purpose.188    I thank our Democratic colleagues for working with us to189get started at 9:00 this morning.190    I now recognize the gentlewoman from Florida to lead us in191the Pledge of Allegiance. Ms. Lee.192    All. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States193of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one194Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for195all.196    Mr. Biggs. Thank you. I now recognize myself for an opening197statement.198    I am pleased to be here at the Subcommittee hearing this199morning. The business before us today is the hearing entitled200``Protecting Consumers and Businesses Confronting Organized201Retail Crime.''202    Organized retail crime is a growing threat to our retailers203and their employers, our law enforcement, and our communities.204The crisis is not going away; in fact, it is on the rise. In205fact, we held a hearing on this very topic a little more than206two years ago. Today we will have the opportunity to see how207the crisis has evolved.208    The rise in organized retail crime and cargo theft is209causing businesses to close and is endangering the public,210where it goes beyond simple shoplifting. Organized theft groups211strategically steal with the specific intent to resell for212profit.213    Let's look at a recent example that occurred just a few214miles from where we sat today.215    In March 2025, authorities in Virginia and Maryland216arrested two adults and a teenager responsible for allegedly217stealing over $190,000 in a series of organized retail218robberies, including $50,000 taken in Fairfax County.219    The suspects first stole perfume. When Ultra secured it220behind glass, they allegedly began smashing the cases with a221hammer to access the products.222    For larger OTG, ORC is another business in a portfolio that223may also include narcotics distribution, human trafficking, and224other illicit activities. In the United States in 2023, Walmart225lost $6.5 billion in revenue due to theft and was forced to226close 11 stores in 2024 due to the severity of theft across the227country.228    Victims are not only big box stores. Eight in ten retailers229have said the violence and aggression associated with ORC230incidents increased in the past year. Additionally, ORC groups231have increasingly engaged in cargo theft, targeting the232trucking and railroad industries as lucrative new sources of233stolen goods.234    According to the American Trucking Associations, that is235ATA, cargo theft has cost the U.S. trucking industry236approximately $7 billion per year.237    Rogue prosecutors and soft-on-crime policies in some238jurisdictions are fueling a rise in ORC. Criminals emboldened239by soft-on-crime prosecutions and progressive bail reform laws240know that they can avoid prosecution and incarceration if they241stay below the felony threshold. Thus, criminals intentionally242steal products valued just below the dollar amount required for243the crime to become a felony, knowing that those crimes are not244prosecuted.245    Furthermore, with some states passing irresponsible246progressive bail reform laws, these criminals know that they247will be immediately released. Once they are released, they go248on to commit similar or more serious crimes without facing any249consequences.250    It is time we fight back. Organized retail crime must be251stopped, criminals must be penalized, and shoppers and retail252employees must not live in fear. I want to give some key253statistics and impacts.254    Cargo theft costs the trucking industry $18 million per255day. That is about $7 billion annually.256    Retail theft is estimated at $45 billion in 2024, and is257projected to exceed $53 billion by 2027. nationwide job losses258are attributed to ORC, more than $650,000.259    Merchandise thefts, shoplifting, are up 19 percent in the260past year, on top of a 24 percent increase in 2022 and 2023.261    External shoplifting incidents are up 18 percent; overall262merchandise theft up 12 percent.263    Fifty-one percent of retailers report thieves are more264aggressive in that past year, after a 73 reported increase in265the prior year.266    Seventy percent of retailers saw increases in phone scams;26755 percent in digital e-commerce fraud.268    Fifty percent of cargo supply chain theft tied to ORC.269    Sixty-six percent of retailers report transnational ORC270involvement since 2024.271    As someone who lives in Arizona, I can tell you272transnational theft is a big issue.273    I look forward to hearing from our top-flight list of274witnesses today, our panel of witnesses today. I am grateful275for you being here. Grateful to you and the audience who are276here, and grateful to each Member of the Committee who is here,277and our staff as well.278    With that, I yield back on my opening statement. Now, I279recognize my friend from Tennessee, Mr. Cohen, for his opening280statement.281    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am sitting in for Ms.282Lucy McBath who is a good friend and an outstanding Member from283Atlanta, Georgia. She is, unfortunately, or fortunately she is284there to help her husband through surgery, and she asked me to285come in. I am not necessarily known for great activity at 9:00286in the morning, but Ms. McBath is not here.287    Thank you. I am honored to be here with Mr. Nehls, a hawk288on law enforcement against retail crime. Thank you.289    Organized retail crime is a very real problem and occurs in290every corner of our country. When I was young--and I don't291think it necessarily has anything to do with religion--but my292grandmother told me to buy wholesale. We are concerned about293wholesale crime, too. It is out there.294    I discussed our situation with Steve Mulroy, who is our295Shelby County District Attorney. I hope he has met you,296Stephan. He is District Attorney of Shelby County.297    We shared examples of recent cases and how State lines298affect law enforcement. Arkansas, we are cornered, Southwest299corner of Tennessee. To the West is Arkansas, and to the South300is Mississippi. The other two corners or our city or county301touch Tennessee.302    We are a major transportation and logistics stop, and we303have related cargo and freight theft. One of our Senators,304Marsha Blackburn, is introducing a bill with Senator Amy305Klobuchar called the Cargo Security Innovation Act. I intend to306support that with her, because that will be a way to go after307the theft that we have had on the railroads, which is a serious308problem when they take cargo, threaten the trains, and take the309cargo out.310    They also hit trucks. That is important. This all threatens311the safety of the public, employees of the myriad companies312that are targeted, and drives up costs for consumers. At a time313when everyone is feeling the affordability crunch, for many the314American dream is getting pushed further away; it is being315stolen from them.316    We don't need to talk about hoaxes or anecdotes, as I am317sure you, all of us here, have believable stories to share. We318need to talk about solutions, which we will do today.319    It is always best to start with data. That is how we ensure320to identify and attack our problems with a solution that works.321This is one of the difficult parts of the conversation in that322it is incomplete and bogged down by different definitions and323ways of accounting.324    We know we have a problem, but its extent and implications325are somewhat unclear. It touches on a fundamental principle of326American Government: Federalism. I imagine District Attorney327Stephan will discuss that.328    We feel this acutely in Memphis because of our location.329    The President created the Crime in Memphis Task Force330designed to surge Federal law enforcement resources in Memphis331and improve coordination across agencies. I support the332additional FBI, DEA, and AFT agents that come into Memphis. We333already had them in Memphis. They are finding guns, illegal334guns, and they are finding drugs and finding other crimes that335are against Federal law.336    He also put the National Guard in. He put a lot of ICE337agents in. Memphis is not an immigration center of crimes. Most338of the people that are there that are immigrants, even if they339did come into the country illegally, most of them are working340legally doing a lot of important work in Memphis: Construction341industry and the tourism industry. They are necessary and342needed.343    If we build that 990-person ballroom, we need waiters.344Thinking they will all be Salvadoran. We need to be concerned345about that.346    The National Guard faces this. They are present, and patrol347is important in law enforcement. They are not doing much in the348way of crime fighting. That is, of course, intended, I think.349    It somewhat changed the relation between Federal, State,350and local law enforcement. The order is focused on street and351violent crime. Memphis hasn't had too much, and it has gone352down. It went down before the Federal Task Force came in, but353it has gone down a little bit more.354    We don't know exactly what street crime is, but we know355when we say we are going to go in with ICE and take out the356people that committed the most serious offenses, the worst of357the worst, mention crime, homicide, we mention rape, and we358mention pedophiles. We know who those people are.359    They are arresting people simply for the offense of being360in the country illegally. It is not right. It not necessarily361something which should cause deportation when they are not362committing crimes and they are contributing to the economy.363That is a concern we have.364    The U.S. Marshals are in charge of the situation in365Memphis. We understand that, and they are doing a good job.366    All of this is to say we are developing policies to address367organized retail crime. It must be well-designed with thoughts368of resources, allocation, roles, and responsibilities. Federal369assistance is good, but especially an interstate problem.370Local, strictly local problems we need to be concerned about371the separation of powers.372    That is a question I hope we will get into and understand373there is a place for Federal law enforcement, and a place for374the State and the local law enforcement.375    With that, I yield back my time.376    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman yields back. I now recognize the377Ranking Member of the Full Committee, Mr. Raskin, for his378opening statement.379    Mr. Raskin. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thanks to all380the witnesses for coming to be with us today.381    In recent years, retailers have emphasized that organized382retail crime has become a significant threat, both to public383safety and the retail economy, threatening the viability of384businesses like cargo brokers, shippers, big box stores, online385marketplaces, as well as the physical safety of people who work386at these different businesses.387    Although we lack one clear definition of organized retail388crime, we know that the essential problem is now continuing389criminal enterprises that operate in a coordinated way to390commit large-scale theft of merchandise for resale, or to391defraud retailers and convert the proceeds into cash or crypto392currency.393    This is not petty shoplifting by middle school students. It394is a multibillion-dollar industry that evolves and adapts395almost daily to the latest technological trends, security396improvements, and modified business operations. Social media397and local news reports are filled with videos of smash-and-398grabs and mobs raiding cargo containers. These accounts are399shocking but they are the tip of the iceberg.400    Criminal networks recruit people to steal or boost401specified merchandise from retailers, sometimes paying the402boosters' travel expenses, then fence these stolen goods403online, shipping them across State and sometimes national404borders, and arranging for resale of the merchandise to other405stores, or even returning them to the retailer that they had406stolen from in the first place.407    Others steal hundreds of gift cards from retailers. They408then peel off the label to obtain the unique code on each card409before doctoring them up to look new, returning them back to410the store shelves, and using customized software to track the411card numbers online. When unsuspecting customers eventually412purchase the cards and load them with value, $50 or $100, for a413nephew's holiday gift or $500 for a wedding present, the414thieves can drain all the money off the cards for themselves415remotely in this diabolically clever scam.416    The customer only finds out what happened if their417disappointed nephew or the newlyweds complain about getting a418gift card that has no value on it.419    It is increasingly clear that these kinds of operations at420this scale are coordinated and enabled by the most up-to-date421technology and communication tools; very hard to stop.422    The State and local law enforcement are our first line of423defense against organized retail crime, but State and local424officials have limited resources and authorities to investigate425and prosecute crimes across State lines and even international426borders.427    In recent years, Federal agencies have taken some interest428in confronting this problem. The Federal prosecutors tend to429focus their own limited resources on the largest and most430brazen schemes, especially those involving theft of large431amounts of cargo or thefts involving losses in tens of432thousands of dollars.433    Many organized retail theft schemes are too complex for434State prosecutors and too modest for Federal prosecutors,435creating a growing enforcement gap.436    As this Committee grapples with the problem I see two basic437challenges: First, we need better data. Because retailers,438retail organizations, and law enforcement all track organized439retail crime using different definitions and different methods,440we have got a hard time canvassing the real scope and441dimensions of the problem or formulating an effective targeted442response.443    In some cases, retailers are targeted by the gangs for444weeks or even months before it becomes clear that the crime is445even taking place. If we are going to tackle this problem we446need standardized national data, utilizing a consistent, and447widely accepted definition of organized retail crime. We cannot448dismantle these criminal networks until we have a real449understanding of how they operate and how much damage they are450causing.451    Second, we need to see better coordination between Federal452law enforcement agencies and their State and local453counterparts. A national task force could be very useful in454finding the broader patterns in local incidents and conducting455complex investigations across State lines. I would hope any456such task force would be nimble enough to follow organized457retail crime as their methods evolve.458    In 2022, Congress passed the Informed Consumers Act to459bring more transparency to online transactions on certain460platforms. Perpetrators of organized retail crime took note and461moved their operations to smaller platforms not covered by the462law.463    A nationwide task force would help us make sure our laws464are being kept up with criminals and to ensure law enforcement465at all levels is empowered to counter organized retail crime.466    I am glad that we have a very strong panel here today to467share their expert knowledge and experience, and to discuss468solutions that will better protect employees, consumers, and469communities across the country.470    I thank you, Mr. Chair, and I yield back.471    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman yields back. Without objection,472all other opening statements will be included in the record.473    We will now introduce today's witnesses. I recognize the474gentleman from California, Mr. Issa, for the purpose of475introducing Hon. Summer Stephan, without objection.476    Mr. Issa. Thank you, Mr. Chair.477    This is truly a great pleasure. There is not enough you can478say about Summer's tenure as District Attorney. She came into479an organization that needed help. She rebuilt it and then480fought off those time and time again who tried to undercut her481ability to prosecute and keep San Diego a city that, in fact,482has recent one of the safest large cities in America.483    Particularly, she fought for Prop. 36. For those who don't484know Prop. 36 in California, we had created a situation at the485State level in which there was no crime for shoplifting.486Effectively, the $900 rule couldn't even be implemented because487you couldn't find out how much they were leaving with.488    If they left with a case of high-end liquor, you couldn't489stop them finding out if there was over $900 of high-end490liquor. At the end of the day they didn't just steal $900 for49110-15 times a day, they in fact may have been stealing more but492with impunity.493    As many of the others in their opening statements494mentioned, there was a gap between the Federal and the State.495Summer worked very hard with U.S. attorneys of both parties to496try to narrow that gap and begin some prosecution.497    She particularly, unlike many district attorneys, was498willing to go to the field. Whether it is dealing with the499retailers, or going into homeless encampments to see those500goods being dumped in massive amounts after being stolen, she501has been there. Her advocacy made a difference in the outcome502of Prop. 36.503    Since the time of its input, its passage, she has504prosecuted more than 2,000 repeat felons, created a situation505in which San Diego is once again a place where retailers can506operate and work with the Federal Government on organized crime507that ultimately is the back end of much of that theft.508    I am thrilled to see my longtime friend and our ally in San509Diego and welcome her. I yield back.510    Mr. Biggs. Yes. At this moment I will recognize the Ranking511Member Mr. Raskin for a U.C. request.512    Mr. Raskin. Thank you kindly, Mr. Chair. I ask U.C. to513enter a statement for the record, dated today, December 17,5142025, from ICSC, representing 50,000 North American marketplace515professionals, including owners and developers of retail516centers, as well as retail tenants, investors, and developers.517    Mr. Biggs. Without objection. I will now introduce the rest518of the witnesses.519    Mr. Scott McBride is the Chief Global Asset Protection520Officer of American Eagle Outfitters, a lifestyle brand and521retailer with locations worldwide. In his role, Mr. McBride is522responsible for the comprehensive protection of the company's523assets across five continents.524    Mr. Chris Spear is the President and Chief Executive525Officer of the American Trucking Association, an organization526made up of trucking companies. He also serves on the Board of527Directors for the American Transportation Research Institute528and the Trucking Cares Foundation.529    Mr. Shane Bennett is the Principal of Theft, Fraud, and530Abuse at Target. He previously was the Director of Assets531Protection and Field Investigations for Target where he led532strategy and personnel who addressed organized retail crime.533    We welcome our witnesses. Thank you for appearing today.534    Will you each stand so we can swear you in. Please raise535your right hands.536    Do each of you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury537that the testimony you are about to give is true and correct to538the best of your knowledge, information, and belief, so help539you God?540    [Affirmative response.]541    Mr. Biggs. Let the record reflect the witnesses have542answered in the affirmative. You may be seated. Thank you.543    I want you to know that your written testimony will be544entered into the record in its entirety. Accordingly, we are545asking you to summarize your testimony in five minutes. If you546get close you will hear this at first. Then, if you get really547long you will hear a whack with the gavel to remind you that548time has expired.549    I will remind; I will try to remind you so you can turn on550your microphone when you speak.551    We will now recognize Mr. Bennett for his five-minute552opening statement.553554                   STATEMENT OF SHANE BENNETT555556    Mr. Bennett. Chair Biggs, Ranking Member Cohen, and the557esteemed Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the558opportunity to address the Committee today on a very pressing559issue.560    My name is Shane Bennett, and I have nearly 40 years of561experience in assets protection and fraud prevention.562Currently, I lead retail crime strategy for Target563Corporation's Fraud and Abuse Team, focused on large-scale564organized retail crime, or ORC.565    Target is a great American company with more than 400,000566team members and 2,000 stores, all here in the U.S.567    Over my career I have worked in stores, in the field as an568ORC investigation, and in my current role in fraud and abuse. I569have witnessed first-hand how dangerous and highly coordinated570ORC has become and the impact it has had on both consumers and571businesses.572    This isn't about casual shoplifters. Organized retail crime573is far more advanced. No single State or retailer can see the574full picture. Retail crime enterprises deliberately operate575across jurisdictions to evade detection and prosecution. This576makes it very difficult for State and local agencies to577investigate their activities without the help of Federal578partners.579    The Combating Organized Retail Crime Act, or CORCA, would580help bridge that gap.581    The impact on consumers, your constituents, is significant.582These criminal enterprises contribute to lower product583availability on shelves, increased safety risks for both our584team members and guests, and disrupt supply chains, and585ultimately fuels widespread financial fraud which funds586criminal activities impacting our communities.587    More recently, gift card scams have surged. I am certain588that many of your constituents have been or know a victim. The589Department of Homeland Security has estimated more than $1590billion in fraud losses over the past two years. A 2022 AARP591study found that one out of every three Americans have either592experienced gift card fraud themselves or know someone who has.593    This issue becomes even more urgent during the holiday594season when gift card purchases spike, as people turn to them595as easy last-minute gifts. Although there are several fraud596vectors involving gift cards targeting consumers and597businesses, one example is gift card tampering.598    Criminals steal inactive gift cards off retail shelves,599tamper with the card by copying the activation data, then600reseal them before putting them back on store shelves. Once an601unsuspecting shopper loads money onto that card at checkout,602fraudsters use sophisticated methods to detect the balance and603drain the funds. Ultimately, profits funding criminal604organizations.605    At Target we have built a multilayered prevention model to606combat this fraud. This includes real-time analytics, increased607training and education for our team members, and an industry-608leading innovation like our decoupled gift card technology.609This helps prevent fraud activation and protects our guests and610your constituents from being targeted by criminals.611    Retailers cannot combat gift card fraud alone. We work612closely with partners through the Gift Card Fraud Prevention613Alliance educating consumers, sharing data, and identifying614interstate trends. Additionally, our partnerships with Federal615agencies are essential.616    For example, Target and industry partners coordinate with617Federal law enforcement through Project Red Hook, an initiative618with Homeland Security investigations. This collaboration619traces elicit financial flows, identifies transnational fraud620networks, and disrupts organized retail crime operations that621span multiple States.622    In the past two years there have been 232 arrests, with623asset seizures totaling approximately $8 million. This624partnership shows that we can dismantle criminal groups. The625Combating Organized Retail Crime Act would strengthen and626expand the model by providing tools needed to disrupt the627sophisticated criminal networks and protect consumers.628    Target, along with the entire retail community strongly629supporting CORCA, urges Congress to pass this bipartisan630legislation quickly.631    Thank you for your leadership on this issue. I look forward632to your questions.633    [The prepared statement of Shane Bennett follows:]634635    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]636637    Mr. Biggs. Thank you. We appreciate your testimony. Now, I638recognize District Attorney Stephan for her five-minute opening639statement.640641              STATEMENT OF THE HON. SUMMER STEPHAN642643    Ms. Stephan. Thank you, Chair Biggs, Ranking Member Cohen,644Ranking Member Raskin, and the Members of the Subcommittee for645this opportunity to speak before you.646    I am before you as a 35-year prosecutor. For the record,647that648is longer than I have been alive not a prosecutor. I rose649through650the ranks to become the elected District Attorney for San Diego651County.652    For perspective, San Diego County is the fifth largest653county in the United States. I have the honor of serving 3.3654million people that call San Diego home. I am also the Chair of655the National District Attorney's Association, one of the oldest656prosecutor associations in the Nation.657    A few years ago, we saw that organized retail theft was not658what it used to be, that it was highly organized and highly659sophisticated. To keep up with it, we needed to get organized.660I formed within my office an Organized Retail Theft Task Force661and worked with our police departments on combating this crime.662    With that we have had great success. I believe that we may663be the office that has prosecuted more organized retail theft.664In three years, we brought 336 defendants who were responsible665for organized-retail theft to justice, with losses to stores of666$3,208,000.667    This is just the tip of the iceberg. One of the reasons668that I am so grateful for the work of this Committee is because669despite all the resources where I put this task force, and the670number of people we have prosecuted, we have not been able to671get past the booster level--that is the people who are672conducting the theft. Then, in many cases where we were able to673build through search warrants, cell phone evidence, capturing674camera evidence, we were able to go up the chain to the fence675level.676    We recognized very quickly that we did not get through as a677county prosecutor to the level of the organized criminals that678are pulling the strings and that area responsible for reselling679the products or shipping them overseas to never be found again.680    I am going to give you an example of a case that we did681recently that I think really illustrates this point.682    We had a very sophisticated heist at a chain jewelry store.683They targeted Rolex watches. Within a couple of days, as we684were putting the case together, we were able to make some685arrests and discovered that the Rolex watches were all already686shipped overseas.687    What really made me more passionate about the fact that688this needs to be a whole-nation effort is because we discovered689that the same crew was also responsible for the same type of690thing in the State of Washington. We had no alert system or a691data bank of Federal, State, and locals to address and to get692an alert that they might be coming for us because we have a693very fancy store just like the one in Washington.694    That is just one example. We have had many cases,695especially in the crews that target commercial and home696burglaries that we have discovered have committed a chain of697those across the United States.698    When we got them, we were able to get the group, but we699were not able to recover the product nor to get up to the700chain, the international and national chain that is involved.701    I also want to tell you that another thing about being on702the ground is that this is such a victim-centered crime. When703we prosecuted the Ultra store $700,000 heist, looking in the704eyes of those young workers that expected to have a safe place705to work and found out that they couldn't even look at the706thieves because they would look at them, like, ``What are you707looking at? You can't do anything about it.''708    That really made it clear that we need a national data bank709so that we can really go after this sophisticated crime, these710criminals, and protect our employees and our community.711    Thank you very much for this opportunity.712    [The prepared statement of the Hon. Summer Stephan713follows:]714715[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]716717    Mr. Biggs. Thank you. Thank you. Now, we recognize Mr.718Spear for his five minutes of testimony.719720                    STATEMENT OF CHRIS SPEAR721722    Mr. Spear. Chair Biggs, Congressman Cohen, and the723Subcommittee Members, thank you for the opportunity to testify724about the rapid rise in cargo theft and the threat that it725poses to our economy as well as our national security.726    For over 90 years the American Trucking Associations has727represented an industry that now employs 8.4 million of the728hardest working men and women in the country. Today these729Americans are on the front lines of an escalating crisis, and730they need backup from Congress.731    Brazen thieves are robbing our industry to the tune of $18732million a day. Motor carriers not only have to replace stolen733products, but shoulder higher insurance premiums and invest in734new security measures. These added expenses put jobs and735businesses at risk. Those elevated costs for fleets are felt by736consumers at the store.737    Plainly, there is a direct connection to rampant cargo738theft and what Americans are paying at grocery stores. Across739the supply chain cargo theft is estimated to cost up to $35740billion annually. This is money that belongs in consumers'741wallets, not criminals' pockets.742    There are two categories of cargo theft: Straight theft and743strategic theft.744    Straight theft has been around since trucks have been on a745road a century ago. It involves the physical theft of cargo746from a distribution center or the back of a truck. Crews will747stop tractor trailers and strike when they are stopped at a748rest area or even a traffic light, putting truck drivers and749other essential supply chain workers directly in harm's way.750    In Arizona police recently arrested several individuals who751had stolen six figures worth of energy drinks. They were later752linked to a $3 million heist of electronics.753    In Georgia four men were recently convicted for multiple754thefts of electronics, copper, and apparel, totaling more than755$1.7 million across the entire Southeast.756    These incidents are happening in every State and in every757district.758    In contrast, strategic theft involved the use of advanced759cyber tactics to trick shippers, brokers, and carriers to760divert and hand over their loads. This hi-tech form of cargo761theft has become a digital renaissance for thieves, surging7621,500 percent since 2021.763    Over 90 percent of fleets are small businesses operating 10764trucks or fewer, but they are forced to compete in an arms race765trying to match the formidable technological capabilities of766sophisticated criminals who are often based overseas.767    Transnational aspects of cargo theft also make it a768national security issue. Proceeds from stolen goods finance769other criminal activities, including drug trafficking,770organized crime, and even potentially terrorism. In just one771example, shipments of high-end refrigerators were stolen from772one of our Memphis, Tennessee, members in St. Louis. The local773police filed a report but declined to investigate further.774    Several months later the ATF stumbled across the775refrigerators when they raided a warehouse. They were being776stuffed with U.S. drug profits before being sent back across777the Southern border.778    What the local police dismissed as a simple insurance779matter turned out to be a pivotal piece of a Mexican cartel's780operation.781    Trucking is interstate by nature, which means the thieves782targeting the cargo we haul are interstate as well. The State783and local law enforcement often lack the resources and the784jurisdiction to adequately investigate cross-border crimes.785This is clearly a Federal responsibility. Only the U.S.786Government is equipped with the capability and the787constitutional authority to pursue criminals across State and788international lines.789    For these reasons ATA strongly supports the enactment of790the Combating Organized Retail Crime Act. This legislation will791provide law enforcement with tools and enhanced legal792frameworks to combat this highly complex national and793international threat.794    Rather than ignoring what our economy needs, CORCA would795centralize data in coordination with Federal, State, local, and796industry, and proactively unravel schemes orchestrated by797transna-798tional crimes.799    The theft of cargo is a nationwide problem, and it requires800a national solution. By bringing the fight to organized theft801groups, CORCA would help safeguard Americans who work in our802supply chain, and it would protect national security.803    Thank you. I look forward to answering your questions.804    [The prepared statement of Chris Spear follows:]805806    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]807808    Mr. Biggs. Thank you. The Chair next recognizes Mr. McBride809for his five-minutes opening statement.810811                   STATEMENT OF SCOTT McBRIDE812813    Mr. McBride. Chair Biggs, Congressman Cohen, and the814esteemed Members of the Committee, thank you for the815opportunity to address the critical issues of organized retail816crime.817    ORC is not new. What is new is the ferocity,818sophistication, frequency, and geographic reach that has819escalated dramatically in the last five years. These criminal820networks exploit the internet and encrypted messaging apps to821recruit thieves, coordinate consolidation of stolen goods, and822liquidate them through illicit online marketplaces or black-823market sites.824    They even exfiltrated stolen products out of the country.825    Simultaneously, retailers have invested in new technologies826and provided clear insights into the scope of these thefts:827Time stamping video evidence, pinpointing locations of the828missing items, and enhanced collaboration with law enforcement.829Despite our efforts, the problem continues to grow.830    ORC is far more than simple shoplifting. It represents a831sophisticated criminal network and enterprises perpetrating832massive thefts and escalating violence against our associates833and customers.834    These groups cross jurisdictional lines to avoid835prosecution, deploy professional-style tactics to field their836nefarious operations, including diverse logistics, illicit837liquidation, financial crimes, and recruitment.838    They repeatedly victimize retail stores of all sizes, from839the mall, to the strip center, to the big box, and Main Street;840and from home improvement, to grocery, to apparel, and sporting841goods. They interrupt the normal shopping experience for our842customers, demoralize our associates, and disrupt our supply843chains.844    The rise in retail theft and violence is highlighted in the845NRF's annual Impact of Violence and Theft report. This year's846data reveals that retailers have experienced a 19 percent847increase in merchandise thefts over the past year, compounding848on the reported 24 percent increase from 2022-2023.849    On violence, 51 percent of retailers report thieves are850more aggressive this year than the following 73--and in851addition to the 73 percent increase from last year.852    In-store theft is only one aspect of organized retail853crime. Groups have become more sophisticated in both method and854tactic. Over the past year, 70 percent of retailers have855reported increases in phone scams; 55 percent increased the856digital and e-commerce fraud; and over 50 percent saw increases857in cargo theft.858    Criminal groups utilize military-style tactics, counter-859surveillance to commit cargo thefts on railroads, complex860deception tactics to obtain gift cards, and cybercriminals'861activities to steal freight across the supply chain.862    Consider one of my most recent cases where Homeland863Security Investigations worked alongside State and local police864to investigate and interdict a consolidation and exfiltration865scheme:866    Stolen apparel was being prepared for packing into sea-land867containers destined to cross the Texas border into Mexico. With868the assistance of corporate investigators, HSI recovered869approximately 2,000 pairs of American Eagle jeans, retail value870of $100,000, inside of nearly $2 million in other apparel.871    RFID research revealed my items were stolen from 35 stores872across 13 States within the past four weeks of that time. The873group was tied to a group out of Houston and Katy, Texas, that874linked to transnational criminal organizations in Mexico.875    Another example is when 35--I am sorry. A further example876is when 20 stolen vehicles arrived with more than 40877individuals suddenly converging on a suburban mall. Armed with878implements of destruction ranging from tire irons to firearms879that endangered customers and threatened staff to commit theft.880This was a coordinated attack with premeditated malice and a881determination to plunder and escape. The stolen items were not882necessities. This group operated under the direction of a883larger entity, with the means to mobilize and monetize their884illicit gains.885    In conclusion, the Combating Organized Retail Crime Act,886CORCA, is an essential missing layer. It would establish a887Cargo Theft and Retail Crime Coordination Center, bringing888together Federal, State, and local law enforcement with private889sector experts to share vital information. As a professional890dedicated to protecting consumers and associates, I implore all891the Members of Congress to work together to ensure the892Combating Organized Retail Act urgently becomes law.893    Thank you for providing me with this opportunity to894testify. I look forward to answering your questions.895    [The prepared statement of Scott McBride follows:]896897    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]898899    Mr. Biggs. Thank you. I recognize myself now to enter a900U.C. We have a letter from the National Association of901Convenience Stores about this issue and about this topic. I902will admit that into the record without objection.903    Now, I recognize the gentleman from North Carolina Mr.904Knott for his five minutes.905    Mr. Knott. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for holding this906an important hearing.907    To the witnesses who are here, I look forward to this908conversation.909    We are very excited to have this hearing because it910addresses a very real problem. It addresses just one more area911of American life that organized crime is really striking at the912heart. When you step back and look at the effect of organized913crime, for a variety of reasons, including unchecked migration914from people all over the world coming to this country, some of915whom are coming with bad intent. If you look at weak law916enforcement policies, antilaw enforcement policies.917    You look at former drug dealers are now cartel operatives.918If you look at former welfare chiefs are now international919fraudsters. Old neighborhood brawls have turned into war zones,920gun battles. If you look at local gangs are now being replaced921with international crime syndicates.922    That extension has certainly gone into retail crime. Many923of you have mentioned that already. In my experience in law924enforcement, of all those particular types of crime, most925Americans are least familiar with organized retail crime even926though organized retail crime affects, arguably, every single927American the most.928    By some estimates, I've seen that the direct cost for929organized retail theft is over $100 billion a year in this930country. It is growing. The indirect costs are many multiples931higher than that.932    In regard to my observations as a former prosecutor, often933when you observed a petty crime, an individual crime, it was934one spoken in a much larger wheel.935    To that extent, Ms. Stephan, I want to start with you. A936lot of people who are questioning this bill have a fear that it937is going to take away local law enforcement's ability to fight938this crime.939    As a former Federal prosecutor, I used to work with local940law enforcement to attack crime.941    Please tell us why Federal assistance in tackling organized942retail theft is needed from a district attorney's perspective?943    Ms. Stephan. Thank you for that question. Absolutely there944is a role for State prosecutors, like I talked about. There is945a role for Federal prosecutors.946    One great example of how you can split, conquer, and make947your community safe is an elder justice task force where we948were able to take real action against these scammers that are949going after our elderly. We could only, again, get to the950people that were showing up at the doorstep of our elderly and951prosecute them.952    By teaming up in a task force that included the U.S.953Attorney, we were able, the Federal Government was able to do a954RICO action. You know what that is?955    Mr. Knott. Sure.956    Ms. Stephan. There is a lot of power to bring the higher-957ups of these terrible scammers that are abusing our seniors.958    Mr. Knott. Sure.959    Ms. Stephan. I envision the same thing for retail theft.960    Mr. Knott. Organized retail crime does not stop at your961jurisdictional boundary, does it?962    Ms. Stephan. Not at all.963    Mr. Knott. In regard to the crimes I mentioned--gangs,964drugs, violent criminals, and fraudsters--there is a Federal965forum for those criminals?966    Ms. Stephan. Absolutely.967    Mr. Knott. If it is a logical extension, why would we not968have a Federal forum for organized retail thieves?969    Ms. Stephan. These criminals travel across county lines and970State lines, and international lines, so the only way that you971can defeat a big monster like that is to come together and972leverage our individual power set to take care of our973communities.974    Mr. Knott. It's safe to say it would be a partnership, not975a replacement, in the Federal law enforcement?976    Ms. Stephan. Absolutely. I don't plan on being replaced.977    Mr. Knott. Right. Yes, ma'am. Mr. McBride, I want to talk978to you briefly.979    You talked about the levels of sophistication of these980international crime syndicates. Can you describe who these981people are and what type of mechanisms they utilize to further982their criminal activity?983    Mr. McBride. Thank you for the question, Congressman. I984cannot speak to exactly who they are. That is more of a985question for HSI and the law enforcement agencies that have986ties or information on that.987    Mr. Knott. In your experience, what have you observed?988    Mr. McBride. In my experience, we know that exfiltration989schemes, and we are getting a clearer and clearer picture990because of data that we are able to collect on our own product,991that is showing there is a highly sophisticated levels of roles992and responsibilities within these organizations.993    Some people do not leave the State. They commit the crime994but they are working for someone that is outside the State, or995even outside the country, who might be a shot-caller that is996developing this mechanism and is employing--and I say that997loosely as a term--employing them to do these crimes at998different levels for different jobs, whether it is the999boosting, the muling or moving the product, cleaning it and1000consolidating it, and reshipping it to a central location and1001then the exfiltration abroad.1002    Mr. Knott. It is safe to say this is not just an interstate1003issue, it is an international issue, is it not?1004    Mr. McBride. It is. Transnational polycriminal1005organizations are the ones that are really calling the shots1006here.1007    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time has expired. Thank you.1008    Mr. Knott. I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chair.1009    Mr. McBride. Thank you.1010    Mr. Biggs. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from1011Tennessee, Mr. Cohen.1012    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, sir. I want to followup on Mr.1013Knott's question. I am going to start with District Attorney1014Stephan, Darrell Issa's friend.1015    Is this deterrent-based car theft devices, does that help1016your situation? They can't get into the cars with these devices1017on them, can they?1018    Ms. Stephan. Well, innovations like that have been very1019helpful in auto thefts; that's correct.1020    Mr. Cohen. Darrell's fighting crime?1021    Ms. Stephan. Pardon me?1022    Mr. Cohen. Darrell's fighting crime was we speak. As you1023speak, right?1024    Mr. McBride couldn't give us any names. Mr. Knott wanted1025some names. I'd like some.1026    Who? Who are we talking about? In drugs we know it is El1027Chapo, and Pablo Escobar, and blah-blah-blah. Who is it in this1028situation? Who are the big names? Do you get any of them ever?1029    Ms. Stephan. Well, we know some names, yes. We know that,1030for example, when it comes to what I talked about, the1031commercial burglaries and the home burglary crews, those we1032have been able to identify with a group that is abusing what is1033called an ESTA visa. That is coming from a variety of1034countries.1035    They are coming in, and then getting replaced and another1036group comes in and just follows through with what they have1037been doing. That has been identified.1038    Mr. Cohen. Can you tell us the names? Are they big crime1039syndicates or are they just crime?1040    Ms. Stephan. Well, I think it is big crime because it is1041affecting a lot of people, victims in my community.1042    Mr. Cohen. Right.1043    Ms. Stephan. I go by what the Federal Government is what1044does the designations. I know that the FBI has designated them1045as a crossnational, transnational crime group.1046    Mr. Cohen. San Diego is different than Memphis and Kansas1047City. You are on the international border.1048    Ms. Stephan. Yes.1049    Mr. Cohen. Are cities in the interior of the United States1050getting the same type of crimes? Are they people from outside1051the country that are doing this predominantly?1052    I see some bobbing heads in the crowd. Do you bob, too?1053    Ms. Stephan. From the people that we have captured in these1054commercial and residential burglary crews, they have hit1055multiple States. I don't think that they are traveling from1056State-to-State very easily. I can't tell you they are in your1057State. We have had cases where they have Arizona, they have got1058the State of Washington. They have got Colorado.1059    We have had several sophisticated crews that have come1060across multiple countries. How do we know? It is when we arrest1061them and we download their phones using the proper search1062warrant. We are able to track their communications and their1063movements.1064    They usually rent cars in different locations and start1065over. This is very sophisticated. It is not like the fentanyl1066where I can tell you exactly where it is coming from and who is1067producing it. It is much more distributed.1068    My answer to you would be this: That without a database we1069are not going to be able to connect the dots.1070    Mr. Cohen. That in the CORCA bill, that they would be one?1071    Ms. Stephan. Exactly. In the CORCA bill, Section 17, Number10726, it talks specifically about that part of what it is going to1073uncover is connections with intersections with other criminal1074activity, like potentially elder scams, like human trafficking.1075    Mr. Cohen. I have only got about a minute left. Let me ask1076you this, and if anybody else can answer me, too.1077    What I am trying, and I don't know if I know the names1078anyway, but is there an Al Capone out there? Is there some big1079criminal type that is in charge of this whole deal?1080    Ms. Stephan. Not that I know of.1081    Mr. Cohen. OK.1082    Ms. Stephan. What I do know is we haven't done enough to1083get the answer. We won't get the answer without a task force.1084    Mr. Cohen. Right.1085    Mr. McBride. Congressman, I can only speak to following our1086product. Our product is being exfiltrated across the Texas1087border into Mexico. Our product is being interdicted in the1088Port of Long Beach, headed for Colombia, South America.1089    We have also been involved in investigations with HSI on1090container shipments outside of the port of New Jersey.1091    Those products are being loaded into a container. That1092container is being manifested to leave the country. All of the1093products is stolen from multiple retailers, mine included,1094inside of those containers.1095    We have recovered many of them. Some have slipped through1096and not been able to be stopped.1097    From a transnational perspective there are kingpins out1098there. I do not know their names. I am not privy to that law1099enforcement side. There is probably confidential information1100that is not being shared with the retailers where those--1101    Mr. Cohen. We need to talk--we need to talk to the FBI and1102Kash Patel. This should be his area of jurisdiction; is that1103correct?1104    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time has expired. You may answer1105the question, Mr. McBride.1106    Mr. McBride. I believe that it is a Federal issue and that1107we need national link analysis. The HSI has been the most1108helpful so far. We would expect that they would be able to lead1109this charge.1110    The FBI is certainly involved as a partner, along with1111other Federal agencies.1112    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, sir.1113    Mr. Biggs. The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from1114Florida, Ms. Lee, for five minutes.1115    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for holding this important1116hearing.1117    Thank you to all our witnesses for being here with us1118today. You have highlighted something that is so important for1119us in Congress to recognize, and that is that the threat of1120organized retail crime has grown exponentially. Today we are1121seeing such sophisticated schemes involving fraud,1122impersonation, and also cyber-related tactics. That1123necessitates, in my ways, a Federal coordinated response.1124    In my home State of Florida we have seen an increase in1125cargo theft. It is impacting freight hubs all over our State.1126The increasing sophistication of these criminal networks1127highlights that need for greater Federal law enforcement1128support.1129    Mr. Spear, I would like to go back to you and your1130testimony.1131    One of the things that you noted is that there is in some1132State and local law enforcement areas a lack of resources in1133jurisdiction. You noted that this was clearly a Federal1134responsibility.1135    I would like to hear a bit more from you about that lack of1136resources in jurisdiction, how it is affecting crime prevention1137in this way and, also, the advanced cyber tactics that are1138being used to disrupt our cargo transport and, also, the safe1139containment of these retail products.1140    Mr. Spear. Thank you, Congresswoman. Yes, I would be happy1141to.1142    Trucking obviously operates in all 50 States, every1143congressional district. We see the panoramic view of the1144Nation. Moving freight State-to-State is a daily experience for1145us.1146    We work with State law enforcement, we work with local law1147enforcement. The problem with this is that you are obviously1148moving from one point to another, this freight can get taken at1149any point in time, in any State. It is that sporadic.1150    Obviously, we will work with local law enforcement if they1151are first on the scene, State law enforcement. That freight1152can, obviously, be in another State before we can even figure1153out that it was taken.1154    The speed of our response the ability to share information1155quickly, Federal databases could be a harbinger for that to1156really understand the broader ramifications, not just about1157where the freight could be headed in different States, but1158also, other links and organizations that might be responsible1159for it.1160    The local and State law enforcement aren't going to have1161that ability to see State-to-State, see Federal. That panoramic1162view is the missing piece of the puzzle. OK? We are working1163just fine local and State. It is getting the national fabric,1164that interstate fabric into the puzzle to make it complete and1165actually be able to go after these criminal organizations1166effectively with the speed that we need to tackle the problem.1167    The transnational criminal organizations, that is an1168international element. That is the strategic theft that we are1169speaking to. These groups are operating out of Eastern Europe,1170Russia, South Africa, and China. These are places where if you1171have a laptop, you have access to a process, a system. You can1172go into a bill of lading and redirect freight as it is in1173motion.1174    We have had members that the driver thinks it is1175legitimate, it is the company's system that is telling them to1176redirect, drop the freight to a dummy site. That freight is1177long gone before they even figure out that it was taken. That1178is going to require multiple States being part of a Federal1179fabric to be able to understand where that threat is coming1180from and how to prevent it.1181    The State and local governments do not have the capability1182to attack transnational organizations. That is a Federal1183responsibility. It is the missing piece of the puzzle. If you1184put it in under CORCA, then you really have a full solution to1185tackling this problem quickly.1186    Ms. Lee. Mr. Bennett, I would like to go back to you on1187this subject. I know that you also work a lot in digital and1188cyber defense in your position.1189    Would you please comment on the that organized retail crime1190is no longer limited to in-store theft. You touched on a couple1191of these other digital consequences, things that are happening.1192    What are you working on? What are you seeing from a cyber1193defenses perspective and how technology is being used to help1194promote and perpetrate these schemes?1195    Mr. Bennett. Representative Lee, thank you very much for1196the question.1197    From my perspective, the work that we do on our team, this1198is a really important element from a technological perspective.1199Advanced analytics, identifying atoms of behavior, all these1200things are critically important.1201    I am sure everyone on the panel has received a text message1202that says you didn't pay--you need to pay a fee or a fine in1203EZPass. At first glance that doesn't seem like organized retail1204crime. You might not connect it to organized retail crime. That1205is a fraudster fishing information from you that ultimately is1206going to turn into some sort of laundering activity, in large1207part in the retail environment.1208    Those are examples of how consumers see ORC, and they don't1209realize it. It might look like an individual issue. It is1210connected to a much larger scheme and scam. I know I mentioned1211our gift cards early on. We could talk about that.1212    Mr. Biggs. Yes, thank you. Time has expired. Thank you.1213    Ms. Lee. Thank you.1214    Mr. Biggs. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Texas,1215Mr. Nehls.1216    Mr. Nehls. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you all for being1217here.1218    As a former sheriff for Fort Bend County, Texas, in law1219enforcement for 30 years, back in 2017-2018 already we were1220experiencing organized crime in the greater Houston area. We1221arrested several individuals from Venezuela coming in,1222creating, committing many, many burglaries, and residential1223burglaries. We had them coming in from Honduras and everywhere1224else.1225    I believe that many of these burglars would come into our1226country having been deported previously several times for1227previous crimes. Personally, I believe what you guys are1228experiencing right now and the increase of crime is because of1229our Southern border, and that porous Southern border over the1230past several years.1231    Would you agree--if I can go down the line, would you agree1232that our policies at the Southern border have contributed to1233this chaos we see in organized theft and retail theft across1234the country? Just a yes or no.1235    Ms. Stephan. I can't answer that.1236    Mr. Nehls. OK, then we will go to the next. Mr. Bennett,1237yes or no?1238    Mr. Bennett. The view that we often have in retail is1239limited, so I can't really answer that.1240    Mr. Nehls. OK.1241    Mr. Spear. We move 76 percent of the USMCA freight. Yes, it1242is definitely an issue. We are a moving target.1243    Mr. Nehls. Yes. You highlighted the fact that they were--1244you are the one who talked about the refrigerators?1245    Mr. Spear. That is correct.1246    Mr. Nehls. They were going back across to Mexico and1247everybody else.1248    Mr. Spear. That is correct. How about you, Mr. McBride?1249    Mr. McBride. I do not have any data that would lead me to1250be able to say yes or no.1251    Mr. Nehls. Well, the average person that has served in law1252enforcement for all the years, you are seeing what Tren de1253Aragua was doing. I am assuming that they are probably involved1254with some of this.1255    In just my experience as a sheriff, I think over the past1256several years our Southern border policies has contributed to1257this chaos, whether it is in just retail or just part one1258crimes, everything. Assault, all of it is a result of our1259Southern border. I am going to make a prediction.1260    You have seen an increase in crime. The numbers you said1261that over the past several years these crimes have become1262increasing. Do you believe that with our position now at the1263Southern border with Donald J. Trump, are you optimistic that1264we are going to see a reduction in some of this organized1265retail crime as a result of our position at the Southern border1266with they are just not letting anybody in anymore?1267    Just yes or no, ma'am.1268    Ms. Stephan. I can tell you definitively when it comes to1269drugs and fentanyl, yes. I cannot tell you with regard to1270retail theft.1271    Mr. Nehls. I am assuming retail theft would probably help1272them with their drug addiction.1273    Mr. Bennett. My perspective would be that we need the1274support from the Federal Government to help solve this issue.1275    Mr. Spear. If he signs this bill, CORCA, absolutely. We1276will have the piece of the puzzle that we need to combat it,1277not just domestically but internationally.1278    Mr. McBride. My position is that organized retail crime is1279recruiting and has recruited more than we know across all1280States, and that CORCA is the only way that we are going to get1281visibility to this type of crime in this country.1282    Mr. Nehls. Well, again, through my experience as a sheriff1283and arresting some of these bad hombres, knowing that after we1284have arrested them they have been deported four, five, six1285times for some of the same damn crimes they have committed1286before, we have arrested but they keep coming back, I will just1287say this, Mr. Bennett, the Federal Government is getting1288involved because Donald J. Trump has secured the Southern1289border. He secured the Southern border.1290    The way you reduce all this recidivism is by keep them out1291of our country; right? Keep them out.1292    I support the idea of a task force, by the way, Mr. Chair.1293I think it is a great idea. I believe that we are going to come1294back, maybe have a hearing in another year or so, and you are1295going to have a better attitude about this, because that the1296Southern border is a serious, serious issue. Now that it has1297been solved by keeping the bad hombres out, help is on its way1298is what I say.1299    I yield back.1300    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman yields back. I recognize the1301gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Tiffany.1302    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you, Mr. Chair.1303    Mr. Bennett, the leading home improvement retailer in the1304Midwest, they gave me an example of theft that has happened in1305their stores. Does this sound plausible? The numbers are really1306staggering.1307    In 2022, a husband-and-wife team stoled over $33,000 worth1308of goods. They have stolen half a million dollars from other1309retailers.1310    Nineteen different teams of Romani suspects--some people1311referred, or some people refer to them as Gypsies--crossed the1312Midwest stealing electrical breakers, $165,000.1313    In 2024, eight different suspects committed theft via1314credit card to the tune of $224,000 at 46 locations. A total of1315107 individual police reports, only three have been arrested.1316    In 2025, 209 separate instances of rental equipment theft,1317128 different stores, $350,000 loss. Is this plausible?1318    Mr. Bennett. Representative Tiffany, thank you for the1319question.1320    I am not familiar with all those cases, obviously, with a1321partner retailer, but certainly it is plausible.1322    Mr. Tiffany. I mean, $165,000 of electrical breakers? What1323the heck are they doing with them?1324    Mr. Bennett. Well, I can speak to my space here on fraud. I1325can tell you that there are numbers of consumers that are1326victimized.1327    I have worked on cases where we have had 38 victims from 381328different States all linked to one investigation. These sort of1329complex, structured activities are certainly, certainly1330plausible.1331    Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Spear, I am going to followup on Mr.1332Nehls' questioning here.1333    About the Southern border, doesn't it make sense if we are1334being diligent as a Federal Government on our Southern border1335about who is coming in and out of the country, that some of1336these bad actors are transnational; is that correct?1337    Mr. Spear. That is correct.1338    Mr. Tiffany. The best way to access us is oftentimes the1339Southern border; correct?1340    Mr. Spear. It's a contributing factor.1341    Mr. Tiffany. Doesn't it just make sense, then, that by1342securing the Southern border for this particular issue that it1343is going to be helpful?1344    Mr. Spear. There is no question about that. The Southern1345border is certainly an element to it. It is a very complex1346problem. It is not just the Southern border. It is legit, no1347doubt, but this is happening electronically, the strategic1348theft that I have spoken about. That is the 1,500 percent rise1349since 2021.1350    Again, if you have a laptop you can access. A lot of these1351groups want to fly under the radar.1352    I understand Congressman Cohen's question about names. I1353wouldn't focus on names; I would focus on numbers. This is a1354vast volume of freight being stolen electronically and1355redirected. A lot of it is getting shipped out of the country.1356    This goes way beyond hit and run type of theft, the1357straight theft that we have seen over 100 years with trucks.1358This is a very complex, digitally driven renaissance. This is1359really sophisticated stuff. A lot of it is being handled out of1360Eastern Europe.1361    I was just over meeting with the European Parliament,1362educating them on the problem in their backyard. They were1363oblivious. They had absolutely no idea that a lot of the theft1364that is occurring here in the United States is originating in1365their backyard.1366    There needs to be an element, a Federal element that1367coordinates that. The States' localities do not coordinate with1368INTER-POL. That is a Federal responsibility between DHS, DOJ,1369and DOT. Bringing them into the puzzle, completing that fabric1370and being able to coordinate the broader implication beyond the1371Southern border is really what we are looking for.1372    Mr. Tiffany. You are talking about all elements need to1373work together; right?1374    Mr. Spear. All elements.1375    Mr. Tiffany. As Mr. Cohen or, no, Mr. Raskin commented1376about this is not your average shoplifter. There are some1377prosecutors who are going to have to up their game; right? I am1378not referring to you. Mr. Issa gave a glowing review of the1379work that you have done, District Attorney.1380    Isn't it correct that prosecutors need to do their job1381also; is that correct?1382    Mr. Spear. Absolutely. It is just all the pieces have to1383work. Nobody is trying to take jurisdiction from the others; it1384is just fulfilling those parts and pieces.1385    Sharing information is step one. You have got to be able to1386understand beyond one State where the cargo is moving. Is it1387the origin where it originated? Is it in motion? Is it the1388destination? That could, that could canvas multiple States.1389    Who do you file it with? Where does it go? That depository1390is really needed.1391    Mr. Tiffany. I want to get one final question in for Mr.1392McBride.1393    Which State policies targeting organized crime in your1394opinion have been effective? What State policies have been1395effective?1396    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time has expired. You may1397answer, Mr. McBride.1398    Mr. McBride. Yes, Congressman. Thank you for the question.1399    There is multiple States that have enacted organized retail1400crime laws. Those are being very, very effective within those1401States. The challenge is we need that national level link1402analysis and coordination center to be able to tie those1403together. Thank you.1404    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time has expired. I now1405recognize the gentleman from Alabama, Mr. Moore, for his five1406minutes.1407    Mr. Moore. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. McBride, have there1408been changes in the types of merchandise targeted by criminals1409in ORC?1410    Mr. McBride. Every single retailer--thank you for the1411question, Congressman--every single retailer has a key set of1412products that are being targeted by the organized retail crime1413groups. In my case it is denim, it is jeans from American Eagle1414Outfitters. It is the highly lucrative, most expensive item1415that we sell on a regular basis.1416    Other retailers have their own products that are being1417targeted. There were some photographs in the hearing room1418earlier of those products that are being recovered on a daily1419basis from law enforcement agencies at the local-State levels1420all over the country.1421    Mr. Moore. Can you explain how certain policies led to an1422increase in ORC?1423    Mr. McBride. In the post-COVID era--1424    Mr. Moore. The ones you feel that.1425    Mr. McBride. Yes. In the post-COVID era, the organized1426retail crime groups took the time to retool. They have used the1427internet encrypted apps to recruit known associates.1428    They have used leverage techniques and social engineering1429to gain the upper hand on folks within the--armed citizens1430within the United States to do the dirty work at the lowest1431levels. They are sometimes minor. They are recruited and they1432are expendable to those organizations. They will roll up the1433next one to commit those crimes.1434    They have a multilevel organized set of command structures1435that they use to boost, move, consolidate, and clean. Because1436they will remove tickets, they will remove sensor antitheft1437devices. They will throw away any GPS trackers that we insert1438inside this cargo to try to be able to get eyes on the1439movements. Then, they will exfiltrate that product out of the1440country.1441    Mr. Moore. Are the jeans being lifted off the shelves? Or1442how is that happening when you say they just, they come into1443the stores themselves?1444    Mr. McBride. Correct. Correct, Congressman. In the retail1445stores they are being boosted by what we call boosters; right?1446They come in and commit mass thefts. They may come in and1447overwhelm a staff in a store that may only have a few1448associates working. They use intimidation tactics to try to1449come back and revictimize the same locations over and over1450again because it is easier for them.1451    We are also experiencing cargo theft. We had some of our1452shipments interdicted. We have, as my fellow witness stated,1453trucks that are broken into at truck stops, at red lights, in1454the mall parking lot they will be removed.1455    Mr. Moore. Mr. Spear, I remember we were in the trucking1456business growing up. I was in New York one night. We were in1457the sleeper asleep and the truck started shaking.1458    All of a sudden we go back and they have cut the lock, and1459they are stealing out the back of the truck. Now, it sounds1460like it is almost and it is a technological advantage for the1461criminal element; right?1462    How do they reroute this? Is that something they are doing1463with the GPS system, or how are they sending these trucks?1464    Do they look official and then they send them an email and1465say, hey, you are going here? How does that happen?1466    Mr. Spear. Yes, hackers will get into the systems. Bill of1467ladings they can see, actually, the most expensive cargo.1468    That is what is different here. It is not just a hit and1469run and we roll the dice, did we get something valuable? They1470know what is in the truck. It could be pharmaceuticals. It1471could be munitions. It could be a whole host of things that we1472don't want criminals to even know is in the truck.1473    You can see that when you get into the system. They double1474broker. They work with brokers. They are a facade. They are1475going as a legitimate motor carrier. They are a front, they are1476a false front. They intervene in that process as the broker1477that's handling the freight from the shipper to the motor1478carrier. They pose as a false carrier, basically.1479    Mr. Moore. Will they take it to a dock or a warehouse1480somewhere normally or?1481    Mr. Spear. Yes, it will move in, generally, multiple1482States. These are products that often end up going overseas.1483Energy drinks are banned in multiple countries. Didn't know1484that, actually?1485    Mr. Moore. It is like Coors beer used to be banned. In1486Smokey and the Bandit they would move them East in the State.1487    Mr. Spear. Growing up in Wyoming I can understand.1488    Mr. Moore. You know all about that, don't you?1489    Mr. Spear. Yes, I do. Energy drinks they put them on the1490black market in these banned countries. It is a very1491sophisticated crime. It is not just the hit and run type of1492crime that we have been familiar with for the last 100 years.1493This is very crypto-driven criminal activity that is done1494overseas, well abroad.1495    Mr. Moore. Yes. I was in New York that night, they stole1496shrimp from our reefer unit. The thing was, they didn't know1497what was in it. I am amazed now that they actually get the bill1498of lading and know what they are stealing.1499    Mr. Bennett, one last question here. Do you think soft-on-1500crime policies affect the safety of the employees and customers1501inside Target stores?1502    Mr. Bennett. My experience is that we have seen violence in1503our stores. That crime in our communities is problematic.1504    What is most important to us at Target is protecting our1505teams and our guests. We certainly focus on that from the1506strategy perspective.1507    Mr. Moore. I yield back.1508    Mr. Biggs. The gentleman yields back. The Chair recognizes1509the gentleman from California, Mr. Kiley for his five minutes.1510    Mr. Kiley. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In California, we have1511had probably the worst retail crime problem in the country. You1512go to our major cities, most of the things in basic convenience1513stores are behind lock and key.1514    The cause of this is probably threefold: A lack of1515resources for police; some rogue district attorneys like George1516Gascon in L.A. who, fortunately, has been removed by the1517voters; and then very weak laws when it comes to punishing1518retail theft.1519    Things got so bad--we have a witness from Target here1520today--that last year our Governor Gavin Newsom was visiting a1521Target when a thief absconded with a variety of merchandise.1522The Governor starts berating one of the Target employees,1523saying, ``Why aren't you stopping them?''1524    Apparently the employee didn't recognize who she was1525talking to and she said, ``Well, we can't because of the1526Governor.''1527    Despite this, the Governor himself opposed an initiative1528that I was part of last year to actually restore some real1529consequences for retail theft in California. It eventually1530became known as Prop. 36. The Governor led the opposition1531against it. The State's political class closed ranks in1532opposing Prop. 36.1533    Yet, at the end of the day it passed with 68 percent of the1534vote. It passed in every single one of California's 581535counties, even Governor Newsom's San Francisco. It got more1536votes than any other measure on the ballot, showing just how1537fed up the people of California are with the rampant1538lawlessness that is proving such a threat to business and to1539safety.1540    We have a district attorney with us today. District1541Attorney Stephan, I know that you are a supporter or at least1542are grateful for the passage of Prop. 36. Can you just let us1543know how it has improved the ability of your office to actually1544hold criminals accountable and deter crime?1545    Ms. Stephan. Thank you, Representative Kiley, for your help1546with this proposition. It has been a game changer for us.1547    We have been able to prosecute. It targets, as you know,1548habitual offenders. It doesn't target the kid who makes a1549mistake, but we are targeting the habitual offenders.1550    San Diego has already seen a 23 percent reduction in1551property crimes. It still doesn't get to that high level1552organized criminals that we need this legislation, the CORCA1553legislation, for. It certainly has given us the tools to act.1554    Of course, something that I worked on for a whole year1555alongside you and other leaders.1556    Mr. Kiley. That is right. The DA's Association really led1557the charge on that. Thank you for all your work on it and what1558you are doing now. We certainly need these measures at the1559Federal level to supplement those new consequences.1560    Just out of curiosity, if you could have your wish as to1561any other changes that we could work for in California to make1562your office better able to protect the people of San Diego,1563anything come to mind?1564    Ms. Stephan. Well, for now my wish is for the CORCA bill1565that the national DA's Association supports and I support. We1566don't know what we don't know. By having a database we will1567learn information, connect the dots, and be able to go after1568organized crime. There is really no other way to do it.1569    Mr. Kiley. Right. Well, thanks very much. We have made1570crime illegal again, as say now in California, with this1571initiative. We still have a long way to go. We have seen a real1572improvement in no small part because of dedicated prosecutors1573like yourself.1574    Thanks very much. I yield back.1575    Mr. Biggs. Will you yield to Mr. Knott?1576    Mr. Kiley. I would be happy to, yes.1577    Mr. Knott. Thank you, Mr. Kiley. I want to be sure we are1578clarifying something here.1579    There is a lot of talk about names, organizations, and so1580forth. In my experience as a prosecutor you have a local1581incident, like a drug seizure. Then, you have repeated local1582incidents, the same seizure, and the same person. There is a1583search warrant for a device or a car and international contacts1584are discovered.1585    You go up the chain, and you realize this is part of a much1586larger operation. It is not every stop. It is not every1587seizure. When you uncover an international organization with a1588more sophisticated wheel, you have a forum in Federal law1589enforcement to hand that case over to.1590    That is where I received the cases. We are talking about1591whether it is drugs, whether it is firearms, whether it is1592human trafficking, there is a forum when those incidents occur.1593    There is not a forum for retail theft. The retail theft is1594occurring over, and over, and over with impunity. I just wanted1595to clarify that. Is that consistent with what you have1596experienced, Madam DA?1597    Ms. Stephan. That is absolutely the right description. We1598have that. We have a forum for fentanyl where we handle some1599cases, the Feds handle international cases. We have it for1600scams. We have it for gang violence.1601    Mr. Knott. Yes.1602    Ms. Stephan. We do not have it for something that is1603ripping off the places that are the heartbeat of America.1604    Mr. Knott. Right.1605    Ms. Stephan. Small businesses and large businesses.1606    Mr. Knott. That is right. It is literally--one more point,1607Mr. Chair--it is literally I would get a--1608    Mr. Biggs. Quickly. Quickly.1609    Mr. Knott. --notebook of a Case Summary that said this1610started local and now it is clearly international. Then, I1611would work with local law enforcement to prosecute that case.1612You can't do that with retail theft. We need to fix that.1613    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Knott. Those are great points. I1614appreciate that. I recognize myself for, for five minutes.1615    This kind of reminds me of the pre-1972ish idea in America1616that there was no such thing as the Mafia. If you remember1617that. Hard to believe that we went into the Seventies, the1618movie The Godfather was required to remove the term Cosa Nostra1619or Mafia from it by Joe Colombo, who was the head of New York1620crime families, one of the five families.1621    This reminds me of that because no one know who the kingpin1622is. We know that it involves international manipulation. We1623know and suspect that, in my opinion, you also have South of1624the border cartel activity as well directing this. Because I1625live in Arizona and we see evidence of this.1626    This is a big thing that is happening. It is spreading and1627it is growing. Even though I am certain that South of the1628border cartels are involved, I am also just as certain that1629there are other international kingpins that we have got to1630reach out that are in China, Asia, Russia, Russia, and Europe.1631    I just want to report that not too many months ago I took a1632tour of my local Walmart, big super Walmart place. I have been1633to Target, too, but I didn't take the tour there. I just, I1634have been to Target, too, so.1635    What do we find is they said, ``let us show you the aisle1636from which we have had to take really decisive action because1637it is the aisle from which most of our stuff was getting ripped1638off. It is the Lego aisle.'' Everything is--that is hard to1639believe. Nonetheless, they were stealing it.1640    They were doing exactly what you are saying, they are1641ripping off a whole--like what you were describing with jeans--1642somebody is coming in, they are boosting a whole bunch, getting1643it out of there. Overwhelming the staff and moving it on some1644marketplace, extraneous marketplace.1645    There is a definite need to resolve some of this issue.1646    I am going to ask you a question in a second, Mr. Spear. I1647want to say that one of the things that has to happen at the1648Federal level besides this national law that you are looking1649for, which is CORCA, is you are going to have--the Feds have1650got to do Southbound operations on the border.1651    We do Northbound operations endlessly. We send people back.1652That is why you are seeing the slowdown. We don't do Southbound1653operations very often. That dearth, that void allows truckloads1654of various items to go South of the border without ever being1655detected because we just don't have the personnel, nor the1656strategy to interdict going South. Southbound operations it is1657going to have to step up if we are going to really close this1658thing down.1659    Mr. Spear, I wanted to ask you a question with regard to1660your testimony on page 10 of your testimony. I am trying to1661figure out your tables, Tables 8 and 9. I want you to explain1662those to us.1663    Then, I also want you to talk about the large trucking1664companies versus the smaller or 10 units and below trucking1665companies because I am wondering is there a distinction.1666    Are the big companies sharing the ripoffs as much as the1667smaller companies are?1668    Mr. Spear. Yes. If you look at page 10 of the written1669testimony, Tables 8 and 9. Table 8 is centered on motor1670carriers. These are actual trucking companies that are, are1671moving the product. These are the States where we are1672witnessing the most activity year over year.1673    As you can see, there is a lot of States in here that are1674ports. We also have several that are inside the U.S. that also1675have access to riverways like Tennessee.1676    It is the type of cargo. It is usually occurring in larger1677cities, areas where there are ports, where there are ways that1678you can move very quickly. That is the motor carrier chart.1679    Then, if you go into Table 9, that is the logistics service1680provider chart. This is the strategic theft that I was speaking1681about. This is the brokers, the third-party folks that handle,1682intervene, that handle the shipments on behalf of the shipper,1683the motor carrier. They are the brokers.1684    This is where the electronic element comes in, masking as a1685motor carrier or a false business. Obtains the cargo and is1686able to move it from State-to-State, even abroad. This is where1687we have seen the 1,500 percent surge since 2021. This is the1688escalating type of crime that is not just on the Southern1689border, it is around the world.1690    The access through a laptop is the catalyst for doing that.1691If you look at these States, you are also seeing a pretty1692similar pattern to what you see for motor carriers. This is1693where we really see the surge of cargo theft.1694    Mr. Biggs. Is there any distinction between large trucking1695companies, particularly in the logistics portion, in the1696hijacking the technology?1697    Mr. Spear. Yes. Some of our largest members have1698experienced it in various ways. They have more interaction with1699other modes with rail, for instance, who are listed in the 90-1700plus supply chain sponsors supporting CORCA. They have a lot of1701interaction, intermodal interaction with other modes as well.1702    There is a lot of connectivity and they are going to have a1703lot more robust systems to see what is happening and track it.1704They also have a lot more technology in the trucks, as well as1705the trailers, to track that cargo.1706    To get down to 10 trucks or less operations, they are not1707going to have the wherewithal to combat this, let alone the1708ability to ``who do I call?'' Do I call it where the cargo1709originated, where it is headed, or where the crime occurred?1710Who do I call beyond State and local law enforcement?1711    There is no centerpiece to coordinate that. There is no1712sharing and there is no understanding. That is the missing1713piece of the puzzle that I think will bring in more capability1714for the 10 trucks or less businesses.1715    We don't want to see those folks go under. They are very1716important to local communities. They are doing the hard work1717day-to-day. They are just as important as the largest members1718of ATA.1719    Obviously, that is a direct interaction, too, with truck1720drivers. We really do care about their safety as well.1721    Being able to train up and have that capability, we want1722that to happen across all members, large and small. Giving them1723that capability would be a huge step up. We believe CORCA does1724that.1725    Mr. Biggs. Thank you. I appreciate each Member of our1726panel, and your testimony, and your statement that is written1727and incorporated into the record. We appreciate it.1728    This is an important topic to us. As I spoke to all of you1729beforehand, this is necessary before you can even begin to move1730a markup bill.1731    We have been called to vote. I am going to yield about 301732seconds max to my friend from North Carolina who is just1733itching to ask another question, so.1734    Mr. Knott. Mr. Spear, just briefly, is there anything we1735can do besides the criminal enforcement to assist in protecting1736the marketplace from these sophisticated scams?1737    Mr. Spear. Yes. The enhanced enforcement, Federal, State,1738local, and working with us. We have to invest in this. We have1739got to train our employees just as much. That is all-important.1740It is multiple pieces at the same time. What is missing is the1741Federal.1742    The enforcement piece is important. I think better1743information sharing is really, really critical.1744    We talked about that. Deputy District Attorney talked about1745that in terms of other States and being able to see the1746broader, bigger picture. That is where you are going to see1747some of the bigger names and maybe who is behind this.1748    Mr. Knott. Yes.1749    Mr. Spear. Like I said, a lot of these folks want to stay1750low on the radar. They don't want to be tracked.1751    Mr. Knott. The best criminals are the hardest to catch.1752    Mr. Spear. That is exactly right. You are seeing them grow1753exponentially.1754    We think the information, the reporting, and the ability to1755harbor that information is going to really, really help1756Federal, State, local, as well as our industry understand the1757bigger problem, connect the dots faster.1758    Again, this is all about speed.1759    Mr. Knott. Yes.1760    Mr. Spear. It is being able to act quickly and understand1761that. You get this extra piece of the puzzle in there; we will1762be in a better place to do that.1763    Mr. Knott. Thank you so much.1764    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Knott. Thank you, Members of the1765panel. Everyone will have five days to ask additional questions1766or submit statements for the record.1767    With that, we are adjourned. Thank you.1768    [Whereupon, at 10:32 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]17691770    All materials submitted for the record by Members of the1771Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance can1772be found at: https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent1773.aspx?EventID=118765.17741775                                 [all]